00:00:18 <HackEgo> brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. To do this, it was designed to be extremely minimalistic- which it accomplishes, with a total of eight (8) zero-argument procedural instructions. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of deriva
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00:12:34 <ais523> you just need to golf the description a bit
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00:30:56 <hppavilion[1]> `mislearn brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of derivatives that we pretty much all despise. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck
00:30:59 <HackEgo> Was lied to about 'brainfuck': brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of derivatives that we pretty much all despise. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck
00:31:07 <HackEgo> brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of derivatives that we pretty much all despise. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck
00:38:09 <ais523> so the next question is, how many #esoteric denizens don't know what brainfuck is?
00:39:15 <shachaf> Apparently hppavilion[1] didn't until recently.
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00:39:55 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs.
00:40:07 <ais523> I was thinking that it might be useful for new people
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00:40:17 <ais523> even then, many people come here from the wiki
00:40:30 <ais523> and you can't really read the wiki for long without stumbling across a BF derivative
00:41:01 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:41:05 <HackEgo> slackerSnail: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:41:16 <slackerSnail> Yeah so I just wrote a 3var-to-SmileBASIC compiler
00:41:41 <hppavilion[1]> slackerSnail: I've been working towards making a compiler for a while now.
00:42:13 <slackerSnail> so if any of you have SmileBASIC (which is unlikely let's be honest) https://smilebasicsource.com/page?pid=299
00:42:29 <ais523> ooh, I was confusing 3var with something else
00:42:38 <ais523> how compatible is SmileBASIC with other basics?
00:42:57 <slackerSnail> I like to describe it to people as a "modern spin on BASIC"
00:43:02 <ais523> also, are you using unbounded integers or just normal integers? languages like 3var rely on the integers being unbounded to run anything but trivial prgorams
00:43:37 <slackerSnail> it used to be doubles but it seemed like everyone else used integer division
00:43:37 <ais523> that's a normal bounded integer
00:44:04 <slackerSnail> I can't even figure out fibonacci sequence on it :P
00:44:11 <ais523> doubles are also bounded; the bounds are much larger than with an integer, /but/ if you go too far out of the integer range, they start becoming inaccurate
00:44:21 <ais523> and using approximations
00:44:36 <ais523> this is actually what "floating-point" means (that the accuracy changes along with the number)
00:44:36 <slackerSnail> I could construct some kind of unbounded integer implementation in SB with strings and VAL
00:44:40 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I'm trying to figure out a joke for when Godel Numbering is bad xD
00:44:53 <hppavilion[1]> I guess you shouldn't use Godel Numbering to add? Maybe?
00:45:18 <slackerSnail> SmileBASIC is a 3DS app if you don't know so yeah
00:45:19 <hppavilion[1]> slackerSnail: It's preferable to do something with the carry flag if it's available to you
00:46:03 <slackerSnail> of course Japan got it nearly a year before :)
00:46:10 <hppavilion[1]> slackerSnail: I'm attempting to make a game console (emulated) :)
00:46:50 <slackerSnail> the SB chat (which I'm usually in) is so dead rn
00:48:36 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: that pun became stale a while back
00:48:58 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Feel free to change the topic if you have any better ideas
00:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: (also, slackerSnail hasn't seen it yet, so it isn't stale for them)
00:49:26 <ais523> we could always go back to the "the international hub…" topic
00:49:36 <ais523> it was the standard in this channel for years
00:49:50 <ais523> `` grep -R 'international hub' .
00:50:28 <HackEgo> Alas, poor HackEgo, I knew him well!
00:50:30 <ais523> huh, -r and -R are technically different
00:50:53 <ais523> but yes, in retrospect my command seemed likely to hit timeout
00:50:55 <FireFly> Yeah, IIRC one only does colour escapes and the other all escapes or something?
00:51:04 <FireFly> I always go with -R, which I think is the one that interprets more sequences
00:51:17 <FireFly> ... >.> I was thinkig of less -r -R
00:51:32 -!- tromp_ has joined.
00:51:50 <FireFly> ah, looked it up for grep. That's interesting
00:52:48 <hppavilion[1]> slackerSnail: That's just zzo38, one of our resident bots
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00:53:13 <slackerSnail> I wrote like a Befunge interpreter for Petit Computer (SB's predecessor) like a year ago
00:53:26 <ais523> at least I don't think so
00:53:36 <slackerSnail> never finished it; PTC was very much un-modern BASIC so the code was virtually un-maintainable
00:53:40 <ais523> hppavilion[1] also isn't a bot, but is somewhat overenthusiastic
00:53:55 <fungot> ais523: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i do wish to make one final comment to make on amendments nos 3, 12, 14, 23, 25, 27 and 31, which we have had the subsequent incidents involving the expulsion, or attempted expulsion, of illegal immigrants based on the gas directive. it seems to me to go away. for a very long history, deals with the specific participation of young farmers.
00:54:05 <ais523> fungot is written in Funge-98
00:54:05 <fungot> ais523: i shall make two points: patent protection and homeopathic medicinal products. before i go on to make the whole system. thirdly, starch potato producers have had to debate this serious issue.
00:54:11 <slackerSnail> I tried to introduce the Funge-98 features but the code was so much spaghetti
00:54:28 <ais523> you pretty much have to restart from scratch to write a Funge-98 interpreter starting with a Funge-93 interpreter
00:54:34 <ais523> the language requires the internals to be much more general
00:54:43 <HackEgo> mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/
00:55:11 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: We should probably move that to `tomfoolery
00:55:28 <hppavilion[1]> `misle/rn mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/
00:55:31 <HackEgo> Was lied to about «mycology is a befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https:»
00:55:36 <ais523> you forgot the slash :-P
00:55:43 <hppavilion[1]> `mislearn mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/
00:55:50 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:55:53 <HackEgo> Was lied to about 'mycology': mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/
00:57:27 <hppavilion[1]> slackerSnail: Does SmileBASIC use goto's or logical control flow? Or both, perhaps?
00:57:33 <ais523> hmm, I should feel proud about that canary.orig error message
00:57:56 <ais523> given that it's the only time anyone's actually pierced HackEgo's sandbox
00:57:56 <ais523> even if it was unintentoinal
00:58:03 <slackerSnail> hppavilion[1]: it has labels but also structures like WHILE/FOR/DEF
00:58:29 <hppavilion[1]> slackerSnail: Ah. I'd recommend you avoid goto as much as possible, if you didn't know to already.
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00:59:03 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: come from is normally about as readable as goto
00:59:05 <ais523> at least, unconditional come from
00:59:10 <ais523> it's usual to write a comment at the jump source
00:59:13 <FireFly> Having messed a bit with Petit Computer.. yes, not a very pretty dialect of BASIC
00:59:45 <oerjan> <ais523> but yes, in retrospect my command seemed likely to hit timeout <-- especially since the entire hg repository is mounted in ./.hg or thereabouts
00:59:48 <slackerSnail> SmileBASIC has IF/ELSEIF/ELSE/WHILE/FOR/GOTO/GOSUB/DEF/REPEAT and I'm sure I'm missing something
01:00:15 <ais523> why does . have to come so early in asciibetical order
01:00:20 <hppavilion[1]> I now want to make a new BASIC and distribute it to the masses
01:00:34 <slackerSnail> SmileBASIC is pretty good for what it is, I would recommend it to hobby people
01:00:42 <ais523> aren't there enough basics already?
01:00:51 <ais523> make a new logo and distribute it to the masses
01:01:05 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: To see if I can get the world of computer users programming again
01:01:14 <ais523> logo's a) actually pretty powerful, b) normally thought of as being used by schoolchildren (thus adding a powerful library to it will surprise people)
01:01:30 <slackerSnail> i wonder if I still have my ptc funge source code around somewhere
01:01:33 <ais523> like, write a website in logo, that would be pretty eso
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01:05:57 <zzo38> I have programmed in GWBASIC and QBASIC but I have not used SmileBASIC (I have heard of it though)
01:06:27 <slackerSnail> and since program sharing is over a server there's a lot of stuff to play with
01:06:50 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: What would be a good syntax for an educational language?
01:07:27 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I'm not sure, most places seem to use Java or Python
01:07:38 <ais523> at the university where I used to teach (and still works), first years were taught on Java and OCaml simultaneously
01:07:46 <ais523> with other languages coming in in later years
01:07:51 <HackEgo> 884) <fizzie> What I learned on the Prolog course is that it's a good language if you need a thing that can say "No" a lot. \ 946) <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think <ais523> some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists \ 1203) <b_jonas> oerjan: the origina
01:08:42 <hppavilion[1]> I'm looking for something that... is good for new learners, and perhaps that hasn't been done frequently
01:08:46 <ais523> Prolog definitely should count as eso by most definitions, the problem is that a) it was intended seriously when created, and b) there are very specific problem domains it's actually good at
01:08:50 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 4 5000 5000 4096 Feb 13 00:55 .hg
01:09:18 <hppavilion[1]> A LISP doesn't seem ideal, and BASICs have been done before
01:09:26 <ais523> oerjan: if you're trying to get the size of the directory recursively, you can only do that by iterating over it with a command like du
01:09:45 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: do you understand monads?
01:10:16 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Not a PURE haskell, just something with functional capabilities
01:10:36 <hppavilion[1]> Like, with the partial application and stuff. That'd be good for an educational language, IMLIO
01:10:55 <FireFly> We get to learn the basics of Prolog and some other languages in the second year here
01:10:58 <oerjan> ais523: `revert does not always work for file creations. although it seemed to work in that case.
01:11:16 <FireFly> Prolog was pretty fun, but it certainly felt a bit unusual to work with
01:11:21 <hppavilion[1]> Shells probably aren't a good idea for an educational language either...
01:11:31 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: why not use OCaml? it's like Haskell but with a more intuitive evaluation order
01:11:53 <ais523> (that said, in my current project at work I'm using Ocaml but someone seems to have defined a >>= operator; I'm scared to see what it does)
01:12:04 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: an ocaml-like semantics
01:12:09 <slackerSnail> this discussion really does seem esoteric to me (bad joke)
01:12:20 <ais523> slackerSnail: it's more ontopic than we normally are, which is a good thing
01:12:24 <ais523> I like it when the channel's ontopic
01:12:25 <oerjan> ais523: i was actually just checking if .hg was a symbolic link or not
01:12:36 <oerjan> (and so would have been excluded by -r)
01:12:50 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I'm looking for something easy for a newbie to learn xD
01:12:51 <HackEgo> mv: cannot move `.hg' to `.hg_old': Device or resource busy
01:12:58 <hppavilion[1]> Functional programming is not very good for newbies, LTIC
01:13:05 <ais523> OK, I was wondering what happened if I tried to rename it, given that it's updated magically
01:13:13 <ais523> based on the exact error I got, I'm guessing it's a mount point
01:13:16 <HackEgo> none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host
01:13:25 <ais523> `` mount | grep -v none
01:13:26 <HackEgo> tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime) \ proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) \ sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime)
01:14:00 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> ais523: No, and neither does anybody else <-- bah, i understand monads (in haskell, for CT ask shachaf)
01:14:01 <ais523> I bet it's mirroring something from the host
01:14:44 <ais523> I did think up an approach to monad tutorials that I don't think I've seen done well before
01:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: What parts of programming are underrepresented in educational languages?
01:14:45 <shachaf> copumpkin is the CT expert here
01:14:58 <ais523> that said, I haven't actually written a monad tutorial, because I don't want to become a meme
01:15:56 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: monad tutorials are something of a meme
01:17:18 <HackEgo> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 40573996 9361756 29155208 25% /hackenv/.hg
01:17:24 <ais523> there are a lot of terrible ones, and even most of the ones that help at least one person are totally confusing to most other people
01:17:37 <ais523> oerjan: bah why did I not come to the logical conclusion there
01:17:44 <ais523> all the pieces were right in front of me
01:17:59 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I've seen someone use Ook! as a teaching language
01:18:43 <ais523> (note: Ook! is one of the few BF derivatives that we don't hate, on the basis that it was the first and thus the idea of being a BF derivative hadn't become discredited yet)
01:19:11 <hppavilion[1]> What would be a good set of basic semantic and syntactic features for teaching clueless highschoolers how to code?
01:19:49 <ais523> most commonly I see people do either: very simple imperative languages (think BASIC); Logo derivatives; or flowchart-based languages with a GUI editor
01:20:13 <slackerSnail> in my compsci class we learn Java so there's that
01:20:52 <ais523> Java is totally a common teaching languages, although normally at the undergraduate level
01:21:10 <ais523> I believe the reason is that plausibly being able to claim that you know Java almost guarantees you'll be able to get a job
01:21:19 <ais523> thus it does wonders for the department's graduate employment statistics
01:21:22 -!- RedPhoenix_ has joined.
01:22:05 <HackEgo> RedPhoenix_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:22:07 <HackEgo> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 40573996 9362416 29154548 25% /hackenv/.hg
01:22:31 <ais523> 9362416 kilobytes? that's a lot of space
01:22:46 <ais523> kind-of unbelievably large, actually
01:22:59 <RedPhoenix_> Why I'm reading "erotic" instead of esoteric? o.O
01:23:17 <ais523> I don't think we have any erotic esolangs yet?
01:23:50 <ais523> that's not erotic, it just has "fuck" in the name
01:24:01 <RedPhoenix_> hppavilion[1]: Yes, I came over here, hurra!
01:25:14 <HackEgo> RedPhoenix_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:25:25 <ais523> ugh do I have to delete relcome again :-(
01:26:23 <ais523> HackEgo's a bot, hppavilion[1] isn't (just a bit overenthusiastic)
01:27:12 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I'm replying to RedPhoenix_
01:27:16 <FireFly> they were already welcomed once..
01:27:20 <ais523> also getting annoyed at you re-welcoming someone just so that you could rainbow it
01:27:25 <Phantom_Hoover> RedPhoenix_, most people think it means the other kind of esoteric, 'erotic' is a new one
01:27:48 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: because of people overwelcoming in an annoying way and with stupid welcome variants
01:27:49 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Oh, I didn't notice because it wasn't colorful
01:28:22 <FireFly> I mean.. it was command output :P
01:28:33 <fizzie> ais523: That's the stats for the whole root filesystem of the thing.
01:28:44 <fizzie> ais523: I'm guessing a side effect on how umlbox mounts those things.
01:28:49 <RedPhoenix_> I need sleep, 4 times or so I've read "#erotic" instead of "#esorotik"
01:28:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
01:29:02 <ais523> something I discovered recently: if you need sleep, then get it
01:29:08 <ais523> not sleeping just makes you tireder
01:29:22 <hppavilion[1]> So should I take a different approach to teaching programming from scratch (well, not different at all) and use static typing?
01:29:24 -!- oerjan has set topic: The esorotic channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪.
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01:30:28 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Oh, I didn't notice because it wasn't colorful <-- *MWAHAHAHA* i knew it
01:30:48 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I'm inverse color blind, don't laugh at me :,(
01:31:17 <fizzie> ais523: That said, the whole persistent directory does manage to take 527M of space; 220M excluding the .hg part.
01:31:18 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe.
01:31:34 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i may have been slightly laughing at ais523 too, there
01:31:35 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: I think that is usually called synesthesia
01:31:58 <ais523> oerjan: what have I done that's worthy of being laughed at?
01:32:02 <RedPhoenix_> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2003-01-18.txt :O
01:32:37 <oerjan> ais523: you want people to use `welcome instead of the others, but it's so boring people miss that it's been used :P
01:32:54 <oerjan> so you get _more_ over-welcoming that way.
01:33:01 <ais523> oerjan: well this channel shouldn't be /about/ welcomes
01:33:07 <oerjan> RedPhoenix_: it's HackEgo's command prefix
01:33:08 <ais523> RedPhoenix_: first character lets bots know which bot we're talking to
01:33:33 <ais523> !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-].
01:33:41 -!- RedPhoenix_ has changed nick to Bot_Hunter_2000.
01:33:42 <ais523> !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>.
01:33:44 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>.
01:33:50 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
01:33:51 <ais523> `! bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>.
01:34:05 <ais523> (to pick a command that quite a few bots know)
01:34:21 <j-bot> FireFly: even this
01:34:29 <FireFly> Bot_Hunter_2000: no, it just prints the type of the result
01:34:29 <ais523> Bot_Hunter_2000: "lots of them!" is a String
01:34:38 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: "#",
01:34:46 <j-bot> oerjan: |syntax error
01:34:47 <j-bot> oerjan: | "one more"
01:34:50 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: "#",
01:34:57 <FireFly> I showcased j-bot already :<
01:34:57 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: "#",
01:35:08 <FireFly> strings are single-quote only
01:35:10 <ais523> oerjan: it's an APL derivative
01:35:12 <ais523> this doesn't really help though
01:35:15 <FireFly> double quotes have another meaning
01:35:20 -!- Bot_Hunter_2000 has changed nick to RedPhoenix_.
01:35:30 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: "#",
01:35:50 -!- thutubot has joined.
01:35:55 <FireFly> idris-bot might be more useful if one already knows a bit of Idris
01:35:56 <oerjan> fizzie: i thought the .hg part was readonly from the sandbox, so not really part of the persistent directory
01:36:25 <ais523> do EgoBot/HackEgo know underload?
01:36:49 <ais523> come to think of it, I think we taught EgoBot Underload via giving it an Underload impl written in brainfuck
01:36:53 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/ul: not found
01:37:26 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Idea! An esolang, interpreted on a server, that uses neural networks to decide what to do
01:37:33 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
01:37:34 <RedPhoenix_> Your Syntax etc looks like a new programming language: Bot++
01:38:11 <ais523> maybe it doesn't have a help command
01:38:16 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
01:38:16 <thutubot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
01:38:29 <lambdabot> list [module|command]. Show commands for [module] or the module providing [command].
01:38:29 <thutubot> list [module|command]. Show commands for [module] or the module providing [command].
01:38:39 <ais523> ah right, /this/ is why we don't run thutubot all the time
01:38:58 <ais523> it repeats everything lambdabot says
01:39:21 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
01:39:21 <thutubot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
01:39:30 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
01:39:30 <thutubot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
01:39:32 <ais523> hmm, I guess it thinks I'm not identified because Freenode changed its identification syntax
01:39:34 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:40:05 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
01:40:26 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
01:40:28 <oerjan> ais523: i know _that_, i just don't really know its operators
01:40:35 <lambdabot> git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot
01:40:38 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ
01:40:49 <ais523> oerjan: it's an APL derivative, thus you can't know them
01:40:54 * lambdabot smacks int-e about with a large trout
01:40:58 <ais523> without memorizing them individually
01:41:04 <lambdabot> src <id>. Display the implementation of a standard function
01:41:08 <lambdabot> Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing.
01:41:30 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ
01:41:34 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ
01:41:38 <oerjan> RedPhoenix_: i suspect the syntax error in ( "test" : ... is on the : so it doesn't matter what you put after it.
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01:42:05 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: "#",
01:42:56 <ais523> this channel was about 10% bots once
01:43:07 <ais523> looks like we do have an underload interprer
01:43:22 <oerjan> <ais523> come to think of it, I think we taught EgoBot Underload via giving it an Underload impl written in brainfuck <-- no that was fungot and it was later replaced by a funge-98 one.
01:43:23 <fungot> oerjan: the council is of the greatest importance. we have seen entire local action programmes on equal opportunities policy for africa, asia and south america, for example, with the promise accompanying monetary unification that a new draft directive greater pressure would be brought into line with those of the who in some cases as sick people, but every time there was a real turning point in space activities, then of course t
01:43:48 <ais523> RedPhoenix_: it's only natural that when you have a channel about programming langauges
01:43:52 <ais523> you add some way to run the languages in-channel
01:43:56 <ais523> that's what the bots did originally
01:43:58 <int-e> fungot: wow, that's deep
01:43:59 <fungot> int-e: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the european commission, were that fact properly to emerge, the three reports before parliament today. i am particularly happy to have got his way and has signed a voluntary commitment concerning the sustainable development of the european council will give impetus to the process moving forward, and i am thinking, for example.
01:44:03 <ais523> only it sort-of got took over by things like quotes and welcome
01:44:28 <RedPhoenix_> ais523: I'm not a really programming freak, I'm doing a little bit funny, but nothing more :(
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01:45:58 <int-e> oh, we have a new topic
01:46:10 <int-e> oerjan: but shouldn't that c be a k?
01:46:34 <boily> "oh yeah baby... show me your brainfuck derivatives..."
01:46:51 <oerjan> <ais523> it repeats everything lambdabot says <-- you could make it only do that for private messages?
01:46:58 <ais523> oerjan: it was meant to
01:47:05 <ais523> fixing it at this point means reading years-old thutu
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01:49:39 <oerjan> <RedPhoenix_> dat prefixes ... <-- we cannot really put the prefixes command in lambdabot because it's a multi-channel bot.
01:52:46 <oerjan> <RedPhoenix_> How many bots are here? <-- i sometimes like to check if the channel is up to 10% bots. it varies.
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01:54:21 <int-e> testing that theory about sleep, I guess...
01:54:25 <oerjan> <int-e> oerjan: but shouldn't that c be a k? <-- i just copied what was said hth
01:55:34 * oerjan finally reaches the bottom of the channel
01:55:49 <oerjan> now to ruin it by making some food ->
01:56:14 <int-e> oerjan: you really didn't; you made up a new word.
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02:01:56 -!- oerjan has set topic: The esorotik channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪.
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04:35:26 <quintopia> is there a maximum size for a page on the esolang wiki?
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04:59:43 <zgrep> oerjan: The way my irc client displayed the above, I thought you said that you were probably the maximum size of an esolang wiki page...
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05:21:38 <oerjan> zgrep: your client is weird hth
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05:30:22 <zgrep> oerjan: Well, it looked like a CTCP ACTION, as if you were saying /me probably :P
06:09:02 <b_jonas> oh, I missed a lot of stuff here
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06:13:49 <zzo38> Now I did post two Node.js packages (sorry no document yet)
06:14:25 <zzo38> If you do JavaScript programming then maybe you might be able to use it
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06:33:53 <zzo38> But I want to add graph isomorphism function into my "parse-rdf" package
06:35:25 <zzo38> I also made up the functions of "monadic generators" in JavaScript; do you like this?
07:07:05 <zzo38> I don't know what that is
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07:12:55 <zzo38> OK I can understand that part now
07:13:11 <zzo38> I still do not quite understand your question though
07:14:39 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'm trying to figure out if there's a simple meaning for p <-> q under the curry-howard isomorphism
07:16:05 <hppavilion[1]> Obviously, one can treat p <-> q as (p -> q) & (q -> p), but that's the type that I'm starting with
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07:16:41 <zzo38> OK I can understand you now
07:17:29 <zzo38> It would be the isomorphism between the types I expect?
07:17:55 <zzo38> While the factorial would be the isomorphism between itself, I expect?
07:18:45 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't think there is a simpler meaning.
07:19:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I'm trying to figure out what Biconditional Introduction corresponds to
07:19:36 <oerjan> what's biconditional introduction
07:21:07 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Though I'm beginning to think it programs to a style (like double negation elimination corresponds to CPS) more than a type system feature
07:21:47 <oerjan> well <-> is what you need for equational reasoning about propositions, i guess
07:22:21 <oerjan> but i still don't think there's a CH equivalence different from that of (P -> Q) & (Q -> P)
07:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, that's what I said (I think), it's probably more a style like CPS than a thing builtin to the langauge
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08:01:29 <zzo38> The wiki article about #esoteric stack mentions my Z-machine implementation, but which one do you mean? Do you mean ZORKMID, or JSZM, or Famizork?
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08:59:06 <mroman> gravitational waves somehow make sense
08:59:22 <mroman> but probably not the ones I'm thinking of
08:59:40 <mroman> an object pulls in another object
09:00:03 <mroman> if that object wiggles back and forth
09:00:21 <mroman> then the grav force applied to the other object would wiggle too :D
09:00:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SELECT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46396&oldid=40842 * Quintopia * (+544) /* Examples */
09:01:11 <mroman> but that's probably not the grav waves scientists are talking about.
09:02:20 <ais523> it's more like, if you make a really really large change to a gravitational field suddenly, the force it applies to other objects doesn't change immediately and when it does it oscillates into position
09:03:20 <mroman> so gravitity travels at light speed?
09:07:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SELECT./99 bottles]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46397 * Quintopia * (+322515) Created
09:07:57 <Opodeldoc> ais523: You just explained that better than anything I've read.
09:09:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SELECT./99 bottles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46398&oldid=46397 * Quintopia * (-11937) remove excess space
09:11:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SELECT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46399&oldid=46396 * Quintopia * (+136) /* Sample programs */
09:14:00 <ais523> quintopia: does that program even contain a loop? I saw the "322515", thought "that's big for a language", realised it was a 99bob program, and wondered just how verbose the program was
09:14:09 <ais523> then I looked at the page itself and saw it was /compressed/
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09:18:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SELECT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46400&oldid=46399 * Quintopia * (+2) /* Integer division and integer modulus */
09:22:02 <mroman> if you blow up a planet
09:22:12 <mroman> because it's sucking you in
09:22:17 <mroman> and that planet is one light year away
09:22:40 <mroman> it's going to be a year before your planet stops getting sucktion from that planet you just blew up
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09:24:04 <ais523> science fiction makes a lightyear seem so small
09:24:08 <ais523> but it's really teally big
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09:24:23 <ais523> things out there are so far away, that you can't do anything to affect them in less than a year
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10:39:48 <ais523> has anyone `olisted 1023 yet?
10:40:29 <HackEgo> olist 1023: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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13:35:45 <lambdabot> CYUL 131300Z 25017G22KT 15SM DRSN FEW015 SCT045 SCT240 M23/M28 A3002 RMK SF1SC4CI1 SF TR CI TR SLP172
13:40:47 <lambdabot> LOWI 131320Z 27008KT 9999 FEW070 BKN120 07/00 Q0991 NOSIG
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13:57:47 <boily> I'm hungry and haven't groceried in way too long. ain't even got moldy bread to look all shifty at me.
13:58:06 <boily> I'll have to brave the cold to go grab a pho.
13:58:19 <boily> (then grocery. but first pho. priorities.)
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14:57:30 <myname> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump murrica
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15:26:20 <Taneb> Well... I'm trying to implement AES for revision purposes
15:26:34 <Taneb> I've accidentally reimplemented mutliplication
15:27:09 <myname> you better did not used predefined addition for this
15:27:33 <Taneb> Shifts, ands, xors, and the occasional increment
15:27:59 <myname> sounds like that russian multiplikation thingie
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15:47:18 <Taneb> Actually, I was wrong, I hadn't implemented multiplication
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16:06:51 <\oren\> what should I have for breakfast?
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16:20:33 <\oren\> yeah, that was much better than just having coffee like i usually do
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16:21:03 <\oren\> also apparently corn flakes in coffee milk is vary good
16:21:21 <Taneb> I'm not a fan of coffee, personally
16:24:41 <\oren\> Did you know you can now buy pre-mixed coffee milk in Canada? it used to only be in Japan afaik
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16:44:24 <Taneb> \oren\, that's very strange
16:50:30 <\oren\> http://www.lactantia.ca/food-product-category/iced-coffee/
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17:19:15 <quintopia> ais523: of course it loops. It's only 7MB with the comments and whitespace removed. I estimate a minified non-looping 99bob in SELECT. would run to ~250MB
17:20:58 <quintopia> @tell ais523 of course it loops. It's only 7MB with the comments and whitespace removed. I estimate a minified non-looping 99bob in SELECT. would run to ~250MB
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17:24:25 <shachaf> izabera: That was a redundant olist and you were around for the first olist. :-(
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17:36:18 <Taneb> there's no such thing as a redundant olist if it doesn't mention you!
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18:01:37 <\oren\> is there a way to have ghc output C code?
18:02:16 <\oren\> in such a way so that I can call it from C
18:10:46 <Taneb> \oren\, the answer's "no, but it can output a header which you can include in C"
18:10:53 <Taneb> But I'm fuzzy on the details
18:12:03 <copumpkin> shachaf: but I don't live in CT anymore :(
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18:12:14 -!- Elronnd has set topic: The esoerotic channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪.
18:12:19 <shachaf> copumpkin: Oh, you moved *from* there, right.
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18:24:36 <shachaf> copumpkin: Not happy with VA?
18:25:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FlamingObsidian * New user account
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19:00:54 <HackEgo> [U+2D31 TIFINAGH LETTER YAB] [U+2D3A TIFINAGH LETTER YADDH] [U+2D43 TIFINAGH LETTER YAHH] [U+2D60 TIFINAGH LETTER YAV] [U+2D52 TIFINAGH LETTER YAP] [U+2D4D TIFINAGH LETTER YAL]
19:08:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hieroglyphic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46401 * FlamingObsidian * (+884) Created page with "== Syntax == Hieroglyphic uses hieroglyphics to symbolize its code. Here are the symbols and their meanings. I - Increment current number - M17 B - Decrement current number..."
19:10:39 <b_jonas> “<ais523> (note: Ook! is one of the few BF derivatives that we don't hate, on the basis that it was the first and thus the idea of being a BF derivative hadn't become discredited yet)” <= I agree
19:11:14 <myname> ook is pretty lame, though
19:11:26 <b_jonas> “<hppavilion[1]> What would be a good set of basic semantic and syntactic features for teaching clueless highschoolers how to code?” <= I have my own guess at this, I can tell if you're interested
19:11:37 <myname> if i had to choose a bf derivate, i'd choose bf2d
19:12:22 <myname> i would teach them robozzle
19:12:23 <b_jonas> but I'm totally not convinced it's right, since I want to teach imperative programming with side effects first, whereas there are pretty good arguments on teaching functional programming without side-effects first
19:13:45 <b_jonas> “<ais523> I don't think we have any erotic esolangs yet?” <= partly because what turns people on varies a lot, so a language might easily be erotic to someone but not erotic to someone else
19:14:35 <hppavilion[1]> About the first part, not the erotic esolangs part
19:14:49 <myname> hppavilion[1]: what you teach really depends on the skills at hand and the skills that need to be there at the end
19:15:11 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes. I'm designing this to start with the clueless.
19:15:15 <myname> i like the sandwich making approach to give people a first impression on what algorithms are
19:15:34 <\oren\> imperative programming is a lot more intuitive for people who don't have a huge grounding in abstract math
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19:16:37 <myname> here is what you do: grab a bag of toast, a knife, some stuff to make sandwiches (depending on your likings, bpb&j, butter and ham, whatever)
19:16:55 <myname> and do zexactly_ what they say
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19:17:27 <myname> if they want you to butter the toast, take the butter and put it on the bag of toast
19:19:19 <b_jonas> “<ais523> has anyone `olisted 1023 yet?” => yes, shachaf did
19:20:01 <myname> whatever these are called
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19:20:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nick: not found
19:20:43 <LexiciScriptor> how to make a sandwich: go to the store, buy mortadella and bread, cut the bread with a knife, put the mortadella inside the bread
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19:21:48 <b_jonas> “<myname> hppavilion[1]: what you teach really depends on the skills at hand and the skills that need to be there at the end” <= yes, but at a higher level. at the lower level where we decided the goal was to give first year mathematician students an introduction to programming such that it helps especially those who aren't otherwise interested in programming,
19:22:39 <b_jonas> and in such a way that I want to help those who won't program in the future, such that they can at least tell better what is possible to teach to a computer and what isn't and how to work together with people who do program.
19:23:03 <b_jonas> so at that point, I don't think there's too much other we had to fix, so I could just choose a reasonable set of syntax on what to teach.
19:23:37 <b_jonas> So I did choose a very small subset of python to teach them for this purpose on a course.
19:23:48 <myname> for maths people i'd go straight to haskell
19:23:56 <b_jonas> The course notes are http://wiki.math.bme.hu/view/Informatika1-2010 but partly broken.
19:24:01 <b_jonas> myname: they're not maths people YET
19:24:16 <b_jonas> and they need to get an introduction to algorithms and what computers can do to become maths people
19:24:38 <b_jonas> LexiciScriptor: because we don't want them to get all segfaulted and have to learn memory managed
19:24:39 <myname> LexiciScriptor: what for?
19:24:48 <b_jonas> our goal isn't that they should program, or that they know python
19:24:58 <myname> if i want to teach people how a cpu works, i'd use assembly
19:25:05 <b_jonas> but to know the basics of what a computer can do, in abstract,
19:25:18 <myname> if i want to teach them how imperative öanguageork, i'd use something that sucks less than c doess
19:25:22 <b_jonas> but on a level where you ignore all the constant factors
19:25:50 <myname> c is one of the worst starting languages i can imagine
19:25:56 <b_jonas> http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-prog-osszefoglalo.html demonstrates most of the features, but I'll enumerate them here
19:26:26 <myname> at what age and with what previous knowledge?
19:27:09 <b_jonas> 1. integer literals and arithmetic operators on integers and real numbers: add, subtract, multiply, divide, integer divide, reminder, power, six comparison operators
19:27:20 <b_jonas> 2. boolean operators: and, or, not
19:27:33 <myname> so you already know imperative programming
19:27:43 <myname> you didn't start with c then
19:27:44 <b_jonas> 3. creating and reassigning variables with the = operator
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19:28:16 <b_jonas> 4. print statements, to print values for debugging or output
19:28:18 <LexiciScriptor> i was 14 when i learned pascal, and most people in the class were computer illiterate
19:28:34 <b_jonas> together with printing string literals and numerical expressions in a line
19:28:56 <LexiciScriptor> also, c-like sintax is common in other languages useful for math
19:29:00 <b_jonas> 5. if and if-else conditionals
19:29:16 <myname> LexiciScriptor: sytax doesn't matter
19:29:40 <b_jonas> 8. how to interrupt the interpreter in case of an infinite loop
19:30:09 <b_jonas> 9. creating an array with an array constructor (bracket), 10. indexing an array
19:30:21 <myname> once you know any imperative language, you can learn another one in a week or two to the point of anything you'd probably need in any uni course
19:30:50 <b_jonas> 11. modifying an array in place with indexed assignment and the .append method, and how arrays are stored by reference
19:32:16 <b_jonas> 12. for loops to loop on arrays and 13. the range function (12 and 13 are extra, I don't think I actually use them in my sample code, but they're convenient)
19:32:58 <b_jonas> 14. tuples, which are non-writable arrays, and creating them from an array with the tuple function, to help avoid mistakenly modifying an array
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19:33:13 <myname> they will be a course next semester called "computational metaphysics"
19:33:18 <b_jonas> 15. tuple constructors (you don't really need them, but they help interpret the debug output when you print)
19:33:30 <myname> i am not sure wetger or not to go there
19:34:10 <b_jonas> 16. defining and calling functions with def and return and parenthesis (this will be important, one of the most important concepts I want to teach later is using a user-defined function as a building block you can re-use for multiple tasks)
19:34:55 <b_jonas> And that's the end of the list, these are all the syntactic concepts I taught for the programming introduction;
19:35:19 <b_jonas> though note that in this class we also give an introduction to symbolic computer algebra, which needs some more syntax stuff.
19:35:26 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: does this make sense/
19:35:48 <b_jonas> The important part is of course not the particular syntax elements I teach, but the lessons I want to teach about programming with their help.
19:36:58 <b_jonas> hmm, apparently there's one more. I also mentioned strings being first class values and concatenating strings. I dunno why.
19:37:45 <b_jonas> that was on the course our co-teacher held
19:38:25 <b_jonas> If I have time, I should eventually try to make a standalone programming tutorial based on what I tried to teach there.
19:38:48 <b_jonas> With exactly the syntax elements I mentioned, and the same goals of what I wanted to teach, and much of the same example code and exercises.
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19:42:59 <b_jonas> Some of the lessons I tried to teach and should try to teach in such a tutorial are: printf-debugging; re-using functions for a different but related task; basics of runtime complexity of algorithms, by demonstrating the cubic and quadratic solutions to the last task in http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-ea5.html and telling that there is a linear time solution
19:43:33 <b_jonas> ; how to use loops (this one is probably before the complexity one)
19:44:56 <b_jonas> The start of http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-gy4.html tells about manually stopping a program that loops infinitely, and about printf debugging
19:46:43 <b_jonas> These syntactic elements certainly aren't enough for practical programming, and I don't want to claim that either, I designed them to introduce people to what programming is about.
19:48:10 <b_jonas> booleans as first class values you can assign to a variable is sort of a lesson, but I don't really emphasize it in this course
19:48:33 <b_jonas> I do demonstrate passing arrays (which are also first class values) to functions though
19:49:11 <myname> passing arrays to functions is also a really good reason not to twach
19:49:17 <myname> teach c as first language
19:50:30 <b_jonas> Just having to allocate memory to arrays, of which you might not know the size at start, is already a good enough reason.
19:50:35 <b_jonas> Even if you don't pass them anywhere.
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19:50:47 <b_jonas> It's also a good reason for not using classical BASIC by the way.
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19:51:25 <b_jonas> Actually, both passing arrays to functions and growing arrays dynamically are good reasons against BASIC.
19:51:33 <myname> returning arrays is even more fun
19:51:38 <b_jonas> Also BASIC won't print an array easily in a print statement.
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19:51:42 <b_jonas> myname: I do return arrays
19:52:32 <b_jonas> myname: in python, in that course. see http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-ea5.html
19:52:51 <myname> well, it's easy in python
19:52:53 <b_jonas> the function forditott returns an array
19:53:13 <myname> vecause you have to know all sorts of c specific shit
20:01:25 <zzo38> I happen to think that C and BASIC is OK
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20:05:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: it depends on the goal really
20:05:17 <b_jonas> they wouldn't help the particular lessons I wanted to teach
20:05:30 <b_jonas> It might help if you wanted a longer introduction with more programming
20:06:05 <myname> for c you wouöd need much time explaining why things work in a way you may not expect
20:06:07 <b_jonas> or if you want a more low-level introduction teaching how the native execution model (C's) works
20:06:27 <b_jonas> which is useful for some people, but not for those that will never program in a low-level language, which is like half of our students.
20:06:46 <b_jonas> It's details the programmers will manage for those people.
20:10:34 -!- heroux has joined.
20:11:48 <b_jonas> For those who will learn to program, they'll learn from other sources, my goal in that short course wasn't really that.
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20:15:39 <b_jonas> I have a question about git that I'll try to ask here.
20:17:12 <b_jonas> I want to apply the difference between two commits (call them t1 and t2) to the current state (both index and checked out files, error if their difference conflicts with the changes applied).
20:17:25 <b_jonas> The two commits are related but it's possible that neither is an ancestor of the other.
20:18:24 <b_jonas> This should take into account the history, in that it traverses the commits from t1 to the common ancestor of t1 and t2 then to t2, and preferable also take into account the history between the commits and the commit currently checked out.
20:19:23 <b_jonas> The index together with the checked out files may already have modifications, and applying the differences may conflict with these, or there can simply be a conflict between HEAD and those changes, in which case I want proper conflict markers as with a normal merge.
20:19:59 <b_jonas> I want to know the best way to do this. What I think might work is this: ( git revert t2..t1 && git cherry-pick t1..t2 )
20:20:45 <b_jonas> Does that combination of two commands do what I want? Whether or not, what's the best way to do this, rather than that command?
20:21:02 <b_jonas> If you're git people, please help.
20:24:11 <izabera> maybe try asking it in #git
20:24:24 <b_jonas> izabera: I had tried, but I might try re-asking later.
20:25:09 <b_jonas> Basically I come from the svn world, and I still think subversion is much better in the sense that I understand how its model works, find it easier to know how to do anything I want in it, and like its model.
20:25:32 <b_jonas> Nevertheless, I want to learn git, partly because I have to work with it, and partly because there's some things it does better.
20:25:54 <b_jonas> I have learned a few things about git, but I don't really understand it.
20:26:33 <b_jonas> I'm asking here because I think some people here, especially ais523, might be able to explain the intuition behind git better, even if #git helps in the specific commands.
20:27:07 <b_jonas> And I think there's a regular besides ais523 who understands git, but I'm not sure who it is.
20:27:40 <b_jonas> (I can try to answer Apache Subversion questions in return if it helps.)
20:31:01 <b_jonas> Oh, unrelated question. What's that other library that tries to be source-compatible with MPFR?
20:33:15 <\oren\> never pour boiling fat onto ice
20:33:41 <\oren\> it splatters all over and burns you
20:34:06 <\oren\> i shouldn't be allowed to do science experiments
20:34:26 <b_jonas> \oren\: what if you pour it from very far, like defending a castle in the winter by pouring hot oil on the intruders from the high castle wall?
20:34:47 <\oren\> luckily it wasn't that hot once it flew through the air. but still
20:36:30 <Taneb> It also is a waste of good ice
20:40:13 <\oren\> I'm tying to build a SSTS (single stage into the sun) vehicle
20:40:52 <\oren\> so I can get readings from the sun's atmosphere
20:44:48 <\oren\> the idea is i'll launch it at middaya nd fly straight up into the sun
20:45:48 <Taneb> What... why are you launching things into the usn
20:46:15 <\oren\> to get science data from the sun
20:47:49 <Taneb> Who has authorized you to do this
20:49:57 <b_jonas> \oren\: um, flying into the Sun is very difficult, for it requires lots of energy.
20:52:45 <HackEgo> U+1F0BF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f 82 bf UTF-16BE: d83cdcbf Decimal: 🂿 \ 🂿 (🂿) \ Uppercase: U+1F0BF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
20:52:53 <\oren\> why? as long as I escape Kerbin flying straight at it
20:56:16 <\oren\> i mean, if i'm off a little then I'll be in a highly elliptical solar orbit, but a little shift with rcs at apohelion should fix that
20:57:31 <hppavilion[1]> Is it possible to, using Qt, use a completely custom character encoding?
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21:13:11 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: I don't believe so
21:13:24 <\oren\> I have to escape kerbin more like at a 30 degree angle to account for kerbin's orbit
21:14:15 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: hmm actually it might be possible to replace its font rendere
21:15:00 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: The issue is that Unicode doesn't have a character for XNOR, and I'd kind of like to experiment with making my own encoding anyway
21:15:12 <Taneb> What if you use Chuck Moore's huffman code based one
21:15:26 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], why not private use characters/
21:15:45 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Which is weird, because it has AND, OR, XOR, NAND, and NOR
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21:16:23 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], fax the consortium!
21:16:39 <FireFly> maybe just do XOR with combining line above?
21:16:39 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: yeah just use private use area
21:16:55 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: I could do that too, but making my own would be more fun xD
21:17:05 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: it would for the first hour
21:17:27 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Pffffffft. I can't concentrate on a task for a WHOLE HOUR.
21:17:53 <hppavilion[1]> (Even on the copious amounts of medication I've been put on)
21:18:25 <hppavilion[1]> (Pretty sure I'm on the maximum recommended dose of dextroamphetamine for my BMI)
21:18:57 <coppro> want to help me write Mage Knight in Haskell?
21:19:40 <hppavilion[1]> Is it a classic game you're reimplementing, or just something that is back in the logs
21:19:40 <Taneb> coppro, potentially
21:19:48 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: !classic game
21:19:56 <coppro> Taneb: I should push what I have so far to GitHub
21:20:09 <Taneb> I still need to write up my spec for COMPLEX
21:20:16 <Taneb> And publish my implementation
21:20:19 <hppavilion[1]> My haskell isn't very good; when I close the tutorial, I always forget about it for a month
21:20:30 <coppro> Taneb: currently annoyed at naming record constructors :P
21:20:41 <hppavilion[1]> I'm working on a humanitarian project called LIME Classroom
21:20:55 <hppavilion[1]> It's an online classroom for mathematics and computer science
21:22:12 <hppavilion[1]> Someone should make a total computable acronym that is /not/ primitive recursive
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21:23:35 <coppro> Taneb: https://github.com/scshunt/mage-knight
21:24:39 <hppavilion[1]> Interestingly, my Lenovo lags a lot when plugged in on High Performance mode
21:24:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:24:58 <hppavilion[1]> So I only put it on Power Saver (which is less laggy) when plugged in
21:28:35 <myname> i googled that much. can you recommend reading or watching something that will help me get an idea of it?
21:28:47 <hppavilion[1]> What would be a good way to make a Fractran extension?
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21:29:42 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Perhaps, though I was thinking something more like polynomials
21:30:03 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a hyperfractran? Fractran using root/log/exp/pow instead of mul/div?
21:30:36 <coppro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYq6eft_XpI is from a well-reputed youtuber
21:30:54 <coppro> the rulebooks are http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/mage/MK_rulebook_ENG_searchable-mar2012.pdf (base) and http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/mk-lost-legion-rulebook-en.pdf (expansion)
21:31:04 <coppro> there's also a startup guide book but I don't have a link handy
21:41:12 <fungot> boily: we are entirely opposed to any form of discrimination. against this background, the european union.
21:44:26 <hppavilion[1]> myname: What would be a good way to implement IO in fractran I wonder...
21:45:15 <hppavilion[1]> fungot: So you're fine with discrimination against persons with a non-EU background?
21:45:16 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: mr president, i would remind you that we had in austria. this measure will be subject to thorough control on the sale of potentially infected susceptible animals, and stepping up monitoring at all levels business, political and cultural integration of the environment is to be quantifiable, and governments need to obtain the consumer's explicit consent to receive a loan in the amount we had requested. it is the po
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21:48:48 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: fractions with particular (prime) denominators have certain effects when invoked
21:49:32 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: A more simple way, of course, would be to get batch input at program initialization, but that would also be less fun
21:52:53 <boily> I'm building a Canadian snack pack. a snacanapack.
21:54:07 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Something I thought of was to use complex numbers and make the imaginary coefficient the "specialty flag"
21:54:52 -!- groteworld has quit (Quit: Big gulps? Well see you later!).
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22:02:58 <quintopia> boily: oh? time to have another snackswap?
22:03:50 <boily> yup! I got exclusive limited edition stuff!
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22:28:50 <coppro> can I participate. I'll just send maple cookies
22:29:57 <boily> maple cookies are quintessential. quintopessentia.
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22:40:15 <boily> olsner: hellolsner. what's that Swedish February Pastry Day again?
22:53:45 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> it's more like, [...] <-- even your explanation is oversimplified. the thing about gravitational waves is that unlike electromagnetic ones they _themselves_ have the "charge" they act upon (energy/momentum), so they interact with _themselves_.
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23:08:58 * boily loves Newton. it's wrong, but it provides a conforting illusion of understanding what the fungot is going on.
23:09:00 <fungot> boily: the council has finally agreed to things which have been taking place produce results within the union over the next two or three chapters will remain for the danish presidency once again and quite forcefully, that energy is not a general and global nature and simply referring to a single species of cormorant and, on the contrary, it tries to fnord public opinion among israel’s civil population, which is also constantl
23:09:28 <coppro> oh, you mean Newtonian mechanics
23:09:37 <oerjan> boily: JUST DON'T COMPLAIN WHEN YOUR GPS STOPS WORKING HTH
23:10:15 <coppro> @tell ais523 or so some physicists hypothesize
23:10:41 <boily> maybe that's why I seem to have an anti-GPS aura... they always break when I'm around.
23:11:04 <boily> really. if you want to experience a sudden lack of signal, stick you GPS next to me.
23:11:10 <oerjan> boily: are you distantly related to wolfgang pauli
23:11:43 <boily> probably very distantly, but the possibility isn't completely excluded.
23:17:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:18:12 <hppavilion[1]> What is the primary weapon used by the military of the esoerotic empire?
23:19:25 <oerjan> we're not sure what it is, but it's shape is obvious.
23:20:58 <oerjan> with a hint of mushroom.
23:22:28 <hppavilion[1]> What actually happens if you base a type system on Fuzzy Logic?
23:27:40 <zgrep> It manifests itself in the real, logical world, and becomes fuzzy. Like kittens.
23:29:08 <zgrep> Type system = kitten.
23:29:55 * boily sticks a cat ear headband on fungot
23:29:56 <fungot> boily: mr president, i would just point out that the question of the gas and electricity sectors. we should also remember that the council vote was unanimous. i was rushing out not to avoid double taxation of workers, we can see what happened no one is intending and the commissioner for his spontaneous reply and, of course, in part, 71, 72 and 73. 52 amendments are acceptable in principle, to market monitoring and the european
23:29:56 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Maybe we should invent a cross-language type system called "kitten"
23:30:18 <zgrep> hppavilion[1]: unfortunately the name kitten is taken my another programming language
23:30:49 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Maybe we should invent a cross-language type system /not/ called "kitten"
23:30:54 <zgrep> `le/rn type system/type system = kitten
23:31:45 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: What would be good for a cross-language type system of that sort?
23:33:49 <hppavilion[1]> Not to be confused with the type system of the Kitten Programming Language
23:34:12 <zgrep> No, I mean... What were you asking me?
23:34:26 <b_jonas> eww. I hate cross-language type systems.
23:34:28 <zgrep> Hm... "Kitten Typesetting System"...
23:37:20 -!- boily has set topic: The kitten typesetting channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪.
23:39:58 <b_jonas> Can we change it back to contain “The international hub of esoteric programming languages and font design” ? We can delete some of the other old stuff except for the logs links if you want to fit recent stuff in it.
23:40:53 -!- b_jonas has set topic: The international hub of esoteric programming language and font design | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | The kitten typesetting channel.
23:42:26 <boily> I'll rePDF the channel as soon as I update it. you can't silence me. MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH!
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23:48:57 <lambdabot> CYUL 132300Z 29013G25KT 15SM DRSN FEW035 FEW050 SCT110 SCT240 M24/M32 A3028 RMK SC2SC1AC1CI1 SC TR SLP260 DENSITY ALT MISG
23:49:24 <b_jonas> wait what? is the Sun really only like 5000 K hot, rather than 6000 K ?
23:50:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SILVER CHICKEN).
23:51:02 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun says 5778 K
23:51:27 <b_jonas> so below the boiling point of Rhenium on standard air pressure
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23:56:45 <b_jonas> izabera: nothing, I just found it strange that http://what-if.xkcd.com/ said 5000 deg C
23:57:42 -!- heroux has joined.
23:58:41 <b_jonas> Also, that you couldn't boil the One Ring with sunlight concentrated by a lens, provided it's made of rhenium, but you might be able to melt it.
23:59:06 -!- MDream has joined.
23:59:32 <b_jonas> Maybe the Company wouldn't have needed the supernaturally heated insides of Mount Doom, maybe concentrated sunlight with some lenses and mirrors would have been enough to melt the ring.