< 1457308818 285416 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause2 ()*99999999999 < 1457308823 933895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: the reason the current version does better than the []*8 version is that it at least has a chance of locking a naive clear loop < 1457308826 527685 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause3 ({})*99999999999 < 1457308850 297741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust attack1 [>[-]+] < 1457308862 224939 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([]) -=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308862 413427 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -21.76, score 7.19, rank 47/47 < 1457308866 127430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: should be ({})%99999999999 (with however many 9s you want) to comply with the spec < 1457308872 813650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457308879 374359 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause4 ({})%99999999999 < 1457308891 273563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect, we should probably cap loop iterations to 100000, there's no reason not to < 1457308896 34310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but even then, nested loops could be a DoS) < 1457308932 912775 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fishbones >+]]]][-]> < 1457308943 175118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the interpreters written in? something that uses bigints by default? < 1457308946 655546 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest fishbones >+]]]][-]> < 1457308946 788826 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: error: parse error: terminating ] without a matching [ < 1457308953 328862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juiced is written in C < 1457308957 278269 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1457308978 4942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause5 ()%99999999999 < 1457308995 20043 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably try to fix () with some sort of AST manipulation < 1457309005 375282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest google http://google.com < 1457309005 508753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that's powering zemhill is also written in C, and the command to parse numbers actually does cap at 100000. < 1457309005 642152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's still stuck on the first one and doesn't start to run the rest < 1457309005 775453 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457309015 704310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at whatever MAXCYCLES is defined as, but anyway. < 1457309025 408828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dead < < 1457309031 186992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: margins3 and preparation both care about the exact value of the cycle cap < 1457309038 194334 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1457309044 73983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them could be modified to handle a different cycle cap, but would need the modification < 1457309051 960869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you killed hackego? < 1457309063 185375 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or at least its bfjoust or something < 1457309067 358085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what other command does it have? < 1457309078 700721 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1457309080 505041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot, not HackEgo. < 1457309080 677005 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe it's still stuck on the first one and doesn't start to run the rest <-- i think so. i haven't seen any response since then. < 1457309082 387790 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1457309092 837342 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hi < 1457309093 79433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf8 ++++++++[->++++++++<]>. < 1457309093 440407 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1457309093 609374 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ < 1457309111 422902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo often did have problems with concurrent submissions < 1457309123 101689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe there's some sort of locking involved < 1457309128 559127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breaks on a time out < 1457309147 635143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/HackEgo/EgoBot/g/recently < 1457309179 102814 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you mean if I submit two programs at the same time, I can get it to break and allow two of my knights on the same tapes? < 1457309197 188410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a tendency to rerun apparently unrelated results < 1457309200 153576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus confusing the output < 1457309213 837365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was normally visible in http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/breakdown.txt < 1457309218 133546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow, look at that atm < 1457309220 826288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of invalid unicode < 1457309239 418758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output interspersed in other output < 1457309244 168748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/breakdown.txt < 1457309247 776466 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2016-03-07 00:07:05 URL:http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/breakdown.txt [8451/8451] -> "breakdown.txt" [1] < 1457309249 200728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the benefit of logreaders) < 1457309258 393275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste breakdown.txt < 1457309260 393265 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/breakdown.txt < 1457309264 426811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm breakdown.txt < 1457309266 972270 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457309268 381695 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest (.)*-2 3 < 1457309268 514776 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Program name ((.)*-2) is restricted to characters in [a-zA-Z0-9_-], sorry. < 1457309273 58322 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest f (.)*-2< < 1457309273 368038 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.f: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309278 147968 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-2< < 1457309278 441016 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309280 728440 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-0< < 1457309280 861794 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309291 899329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your paste link no longer works, now that you removed the file. < 1457309293 920299 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*0 < 1457309294 123003 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309296 822025 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-0 < 1457309297 16038 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309298 544345 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*--0 < 1457309298 760089 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309303 278449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"breakdown.txt@d57f8e8d353c: not found in manifest" < 1457309303 411708 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-----0 < 1457309303 545333 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309314 151341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seriously? I thought it'd permalink :-( < 1457309315 331150 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-----1< < 1457309315 464654 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309319 583028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1457309321 934085 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messing with parsing. \o/ < 1457309325 271427 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1457309328 126795 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how this parses. < 1457309329 670540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste < breakdown.txt < 1457309330 685177 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/%3C%20breakdown.txt < 1457309335 846894 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)* < 1457309336 47410 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309336 786676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` paste < breakdown.txt < 1457309339 311963 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*----- < 1457309339 524964 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309340 902897 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.32218 < 1457309341 36376 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-----1 < 1457309341 210966 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309342 554765 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-----0 < 1457309342 897873 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309344 870167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1457309348 102644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm breakdown.txt < 1457309350 356965 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457309363 755759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's an "optimization" to not generate a new file when given a file name. < 1457309384 429926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the invalid characters in breakdown.txt seemed to be just 0 bytes. < 1457309384 563401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, poor HackEgo < 1457309388 478486 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)% < 1457309388 685993 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309395 515958 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)% 1 < 1457309395 690510 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309402 184375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was guessing NUL bytes, they're a common symptom of two concurrent accesses to the same file without locking < 1457309402 675064 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)%CC1 < 1457309402 808627 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309404 856922 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)%C-C1 < 1457309405 119849 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309411 664226 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)%C-1 < 1457309411 797360 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309427 616479 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canonization is going to be a pain. < 1457309479 239027 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Does zemhill work in privmsg? < 1457309482 343225 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1457309509 394944 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Is there a reason you aren't using it then? < 1457309510 351662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also over the Web, although it can't auth you there < 1457309514 17069 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<) < 1457309514 223080 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309515 401310 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1457309520 222172 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test {<} < 1457309520 355428 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457309545 134102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : {} with no matching () < 1457309648 229701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (<)%C-1 gets interpreted (by zemhill) identically to (<)*-1, while (<)%C-C1 is just the empty program. < 1457309657 872276 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1457309663 457071 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it tokenizes somehow. < 1457309669 248183 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-1[<<] < 1457309673 958614 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test >-1[<<] < 1457309674 92126 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309678 940869 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test >*-1[<<] < 1457309679 74110 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309682 582510 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test >()*-1[<<] < 1457309682 831173 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309693 752871 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context sensitive too. < 1457309703 383713 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry for breaking the bot < 1457309711 955385 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is a LISP that compiles to JS a reasonable goal for a first transpiler? < 1457309717 201527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juiced responds to "(>)C*-1" with ") not followed by % or *" < 1457309723 111855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you can call it that. It's more that it ignores "non-meaningful" characters in most contexts, except after it's found the start of the number. So the C before the - is skipped, but the C between - and 1 isn't, so the count's just 0 for the latter. < 1457309724 648544 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IYHONHO? < 1457309729 655735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: it's not terrible, especially as javascript has first-class functions < 1457309737 140228 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's what I was thinking < 1457309746 967985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also surely you mean IYHONSHO? < 1457309747 750426 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The part I was scared of is quote and unquote < 1457309750 411432 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to gather all the programs that ever existed on the hill < 1457309756 244030 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm working on a component to canonicalize stuff. < 1457309762 507078 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What does THAT mean? < 1457309785 765933 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mine was "In Your Humble (Or Not Humble) Opinion") < 1457309795 793461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not so humble" < 1457309798 317542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could actually say it treats anything that's not +-<>.,[](){}*%0123456789 as whitespace, and ignores whitespace except in the middle of a number. < 1457309803 321806 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah < 1457309804 360008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogy with IMNSHO < 1457309814 520150 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is that the one I use, or is that common? < 1457309820 636191 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMNSHO that is < 1457309845 988500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, (>)*C-1 seems to be interpreted as (>)*0 by juiced < 1457309856 337685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, as (>)*0-C by juicd < 1457309862 841988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the - is parsed as an instruction) < 1457309864 3860 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I independently discovered IMNSHO, but it may already have been known < 1457309880 631165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be fairly common, especially on usenet < 1457309883 943554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not used much nowadays < 1457309884 170858 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1457309903 84273 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still see “IMNSHO” in irc I think. < 1457309908 537522 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMNSHO, it should be used more < 1457309938 111141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I used to have a ") not followed by % or *" error, but then some program in the sample sets contained something akin to (this is a comment where there's (something) in parentheses)*0. < 1457309951 459870 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({})*999999)*9999999)*999999 < 1457309951 672019 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309964 470367 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zemhill is rather more resilient < 1457309969 958155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I dislike it when hill interps are permissive, as that means I have to correct other people's programs for local testing < 1457310021 959153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there was a controversy about "()* 1" and "() *1" (as opposed to the uncontroversial "()*1 ") which I had to patch in juiced at one point < 1457310032 281023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have any hope of compatibility with what other people were doing < 1457310034 195366 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh, manually written parsers. damnit Geany < 1457310056 561244 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(hppavilion) / sizeof(hppavilion[0]) < 1457310098 134771 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr some programs had to be patched when the grammar changed (disallowing unmatched [] in ()*, iirc) < 1457310115 1620 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accepted grammar < 1457310121 171982 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({.})*999999)*9999999)*999999 < 1457310121 520775 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310122 299941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"help ()*0 comments" says the commit message which introduced that change. < 1457310136 630717 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({.})*999999)*9999999)%999999 < 1457310136 933344 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310140 48275 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1457310144 128042 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({.}.)*999999)*9999999)%999999 < 1457310144 447652 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310151 106336 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: try adding some % < 1457310166 685620 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause (((({[.}.}.)*999999)*9999999)%999999)%999999 < 1457310166 819188 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: terminating } without a matching { < 1457310171 467902 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause (((({{.}.}.)*999999)*9999999)%999999)%999999 < 1457310171 733447 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310182 79996 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1457310192 159875 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :near the {} or something < 1457310202 576198 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror } < 1457310202 709622 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: terminating } without a matching { < 1457310205 168463 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ) < 1457310205 302072 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: terminating ) without a matching ( < 1457310214 259110 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ([)*1 < 1457310214 392542 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: [..] crossing out of a ({..}) level < 1457310221 880016 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it not match ()* in ()% correctly? < 1457310228 303101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also zemhill considers * and % as synonyms. < 1457310231 23920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ({)*1(})*1 < 1457310231 155166 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: starting { without a matching } < 1457310234 472348 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1457310235 462202 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1457310249 408546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror {} < 1457310249 542137 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457310256 524551 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ({{}}) < 1457310256 657757 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457310259 642437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: (a{b}c)%n is equivalent to (a)*n b (c)*n < 1457310264 438771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but allows you to match brackets between a and c < 1457310271 406023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is to make it possible to implement efficiently < 1457310271 574324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1457310295 336232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, implementing % takes a little thought and most BF Joust interpreters I've seen from non-#esoteric people omit it < 1457310308 845458 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it would be possible to implement the general parenthesis (which allows unbalanced brackets) too, only more difficult to implement < 1457310319 196061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many interps implement outside-%-matches-inside-{} ? < 1457310327 124510 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : urgh, manually written parsers. damnit Geany <-- the BFJoust ({})% construction is a bit tricky to parse, i don't think it's context-free. < 1457310367 526553 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, with nested {}s. < 1457310373 966065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't it just program ::= program '(' program '{' program '}' program ')' '%' integer ? < 1457310374 147078 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest ({}) < 1457310374 279663 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457310377 879955 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test ({}) < 1457310378 130363 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310383 365065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested {} is the thing that cause problems < 1457310383 610746 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test ({}{}) < 1457310383 744096 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1457310387 906209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if it's widely implemented anyway < 1457310388 248076 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (({}{})) < 1457310388 381335 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1457310391 236456 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (({}){}) < 1457310391 442173 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310397 300891 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's an noop context < 1457310398 581161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (({{}})%2)%2 < 1457310398 833541 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310400 132047 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not when you allow {}s to match other than immediately enclosing () < 1457310400 265740 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. . . < 1457310423 478329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'd have to count the brackets in the expansion of every parenthesis, and track a path in the tree for where the program counter is or something like that < 1457310424 844953 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which zemhill and EgoBot both support iirc < 1457310453 408283 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest (({}{})%1)%1 < 1457310453 578470 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457310459 399979 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntx (({}{})%1)%1 < 1457310459 533293 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1457310466 787683 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax (({})%2)%1 < 1457310466 986813 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.syntax: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310474 603767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so with a test program of (1(2{3{4}5}6)%2 7)%2 < 1457310476 640514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b{c{d}e}f)%n g)%m => (a(b)*n c)*m d(e(f)*n g)*m, yes. < 1457310498 58506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juiced outputs 12231223456675667 < 1457310575 168460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a debug output like that, but that's what zemhill should execute as well. < 1457310597 846666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the way juiced's debug output works is < 1457310604 591306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write ()*n in your program (nothing in the brackets) < 1457310653 353286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it outputs n in a way that can be parsed < 1457310673 12949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I run a program against the entire hill, I get the various values of n that were used in any of its runs, broken down via program < 1457310679 563292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that, say, I can write a defence program detector < 1457310681 404478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a ()*1 in it < 1457310691 633119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run it and see which enemy programs my own program considers to be defensie < 1457310693 428163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defensive < 1457310738 707769 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just make an escape < 1457310739 590880 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1457310745 940546 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :($debug command) < 1457310754 922584 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without making it something that normally parses to noop < 1457310836 290046 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$help < 1457310854 653518 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1457310856 283301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: but that'd prevent me putting these into programs submitted to the hill < 1457310857 376672 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No $ bot < 1457310877 945351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^prefixes < 1457310878 78673 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . < 1457310894 233542 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : although I think it would be possible to implement the general parenthesis (which allows unbalanced brackets) too, only more difficult to implement <-- i've thought about that, the problem is you can get _very_ tricky about where exactly in the hierarchy the matching [ to a ] is. < 1457310899 409951 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Bf joust14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46502 5* 03Ais523 5* (+22) 10caps redirect < 1457310924 752116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could've made it ($echo foo)*0 etc. though, so that it's not limited to numbers and could do other sort of commands. < 1457310942 500412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always seems weird seeing a miscapitalization, even though that's the whole point of a caps redirect < 1457310969 938994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then other people could trigger it using malicious comments < 1457310978 789929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a ()*5 in someone else's program is clearly harmless < 1457311004 771589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest does_this_have_a_distinct_score (+)*-1 < 1457311005 639062 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.does_this_have_a_distinct_score: points -12.88, score 9.15, rank 47/47 < 1457311027 210666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest (<{(+)*-1}.)*0 < 1457311027 344115 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457311035 842235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest empty_percent (<{(+)*-1}.)%0 < 1457311036 677181 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.empty_percent: points -12.88, score 9.15, rank 47/47 < 1457311052 275139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, that is a hard case to handle correctly (and that is the correct handling of it) < 1457311092 610527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tested juiced, it seems broken on it :-( < 1457311096 488144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the whole thing is a no-op on juiced) < 1457311115 672009 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps I should make Thoof Bot? < 1457311122 754144 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: One where you can add arbitrary axioms? < 1457311128 554093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: you can just add an interpreter into HackEgo, can't you? < 1457311132 625912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it was originally meant to be for < 1457311136 849274 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, right < 1457311140 365716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before people started filling it with quotes and wisdom, anyway < 1457311154 377798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very occasionally it is actually used for its intended purpose < 1457311155 790175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311157 253787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311157 400869 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :579) it's not a list of /all/ interesting esolangs, btw; otherwise you can take the first command from the first esolang, the second from the second, the third from the third, etc, then add 1 to all of them and you get a new interesting esolang diagonal principle… < 1457311158 89883 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) The system I kind of have in mind makes a flying train a natural consequence. < 1457311158 701854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311159 444166 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :605) elliott, cars aren't perfectly spherical. < 1457311160 195514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311160 925751 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :703) Why does CL get called functional? it's sort of like how you call ancient greece democratic. < 1457311161 694716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311162 320901 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1235) `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django < 1457311194 496988 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course, if I do that I have to somehow get it /into/ hackego < 1457311209 647338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: `fetch is your friend < 1457311211 805628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help fetch < 1457311211 992094 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1457311217 801093 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but I'm an idiot < 1457311226 698648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that command was mis-parsed and yet somehow gave useful outut anyway < 1457311255 16862 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a HackEgo API I can use? < 1457311268 495897 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or perhaps docs on how to write scripts that run on HackEgo? < 1457311276 55789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: see Linux manpages < 1457311278 127941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just Linux < 1457311280 299925 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps < 1457311356 916888 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to start looking into how the Thoof command API should work < 1457311396 452645 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose putting it in HackEgo's better as I don't need to make a full bot this way, AND it'll practically always be online < 1457311436 27898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people actually hate python < 1457311460 84464 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit < 1457311464 300333 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer's not charging < 1457311467 724629 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the outlet is working < 1457311473 678269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my enduring impression of it is just this perfectly inoffensive language, but you can always find people who hate a given language < 1457311480 407792 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try another outlet out of ill-thought-out desperation < 1457311496 141360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't hate it /that/ much but I still have a pretty dim view of it < 1457311504 692997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to get into flame wars with Python fans on occasion < 1457311532 19738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: check that the other end of the power wire (the one that's not connected to the socket) is connected to the charger < 1457311539 10760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a reasonably common failure mode and one that's confused me a bunch in the past < 1457311548 771811 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did < 1457311577 418488 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1457311578 736708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's also possible for the charger to become disconnected from the laptop in a way that's non-obvious; this is rarer but it's happened a few times) < 1457311583 725684 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on and off charging < 1457311594 937650 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on my angle of sitting < 1457311597 928949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that makes it very likely that the end next to the laptop is loose < 1457311603 244527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just push it in a bit further < 1457311613 283556 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's as far as it'll safely go < 1457311618 72932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457311621 434135 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the cord might be shot < 1457311626 332576 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: _you_ get into flame wars? < 1457311630 489040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case it could be – yes < 1457311643 814722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they are pretty tame by flame war standards < 1457311653 690701 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were this perfectly inoffensive guy. < 1457311669 166487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that I'm so inoffensive that I will consider even something pretty minor to be a flame war < 1457311813 89569 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1457311849 45007 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ACHOO* < 1457311921 169342 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Should the Thoof have different proofspaces? < 1457311926 568558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else < 1457311954 260821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe < 1457311963 509667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: I have no idea < 1457311975 314813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, I'm probably not the right person to ask about a Thue-based proof assistant < 1457311996 291833 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A proofspace being that you have to do `thoof-addax "" < 1457312072 657766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, global state in IRC bots has a tendency to get trampled on < 1457312079 591294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're going to base it on deductive term rewriting? < 1457312097 836288 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes; it's based on string rewriting, to be exact < 1457312103 754363 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With s/// < 1457312136 232620 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457312169 593430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't you end up basically implementing a typed lambda calculus in thue, what with curry-howard? < 1457312181 435054 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm trying to decide whether to shove all the axioms in a global namespace or to be precise and specific and allow different proofs < 1457312194 155334 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Huh? < 1457312194 527031 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe < 1457312196 591206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1271) editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe < 1457312208 849279 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How is string rewriting typed lambda calculus < 1457312213 161499 :vyv!~vyv@142.114.229.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457312240 36993 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :string rewriting isn't, but to get logic working properly i think you'll end up with a typed LC < 1457312325 927142 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There are a variety of ways to do what you want in it < 1457312329 272194 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, global state in IRC bots has a tendency to get trampled on <-- we don't like _too_ much global state change in HackEgo, it clutters up the history browser. < 1457312345 208965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1457312360 743724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps HackEgo should have some non-versioned temporary state, too < 1457312369 366340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that we can expect to get blown away on a regular basis < 1457312399 492217 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ACHOO* more nosedrops -> < 1457312407 876772 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting approach to editor flame wars < 1457312415 851533 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Typed λ-calculus is one way to do things, but it is not necessary < 1457312416 955672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like presumably you'll want some way to express the statement "forall x, A(x) implies B(x)" where A, B are some formulaic statements about x < 1457312481 433083 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's possible, but not how you go about it < 1457312510 87138 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Thoof is based on proving strings from other strings together with substitutions < 1457312514 6612 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some rewriting rule that lets you turn a proof of that, and an x, and a proof of A(x) into a proof of B(x) < 1457312529 136582 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can do that, but that's not the goal < 1457312566 841379 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Substitutions are based on PCRE regexes, Phantom_Hoover. < 1457312606 683486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just describing a string rewriting system here, not a string rewriting system that implements a proof assistant < 1457312653 884682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it a proof assistant you'll have to define some kind of encoding of logic into your strings, and rewriting rules that let you make deductions < 1457312683 634131 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46503&oldid=46497 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1501) 10/* Synchronization */ renamed to /* Reconnaissance */ mention the strategy Lymia.nyuroki uses, expand/adapt a bit < 1457312698 647587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the deduction and rule i described above, which is essentially function application < 1457312755 892765 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46504&oldid=46503 5* 03Ais523 5* (+11) 10/* Decoy detection */ replace gratuitous Markdown with actual wikimarkup (I posted wikimarkup to a Markdown-using forum a little earlier, so the reverse error a few minutes later is perhaps not that unexpected) < 1457312896 566089 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457312988 936086 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You create axioms and theorems from said axioms and apply the axioms/theorems to other axioms until you get what you want < 1457312994 601477 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sounds like a proof assistant to me < 1457313012 189163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i never said otherwise < 1457313034 963215 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The axioms are strings, s/// expressions, and y/// expressions < 1457313047 643724 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You prove strings, and those strings can represent other things < 1457313059 104126 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have to construct things like numbers though < 1457313060 928383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a y/// expression do < 1457313072 501813 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Character-by-character substitution, like in Sed < 1457313085 948661 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Less common than s///, but still potentially VERY useful < 1457313118 194772 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y/S/s/ < 1457313224 651752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you made any concrete proofs or anything with this? i'd like to have a clear idea of what you're thinking of < 1457313236 664965 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I proved 3+2=5 < 1457313240 406039 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Using Peano arithmetic < 1457313247 346186 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more construction than proof, but close enough < 1457313256 382339 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So do you think it'd be better to have one big proofspace, sort of like lambdabot's functionspace, or multiple proofspaces like in any rational thing ever? < 1457313299 502563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a source file or something for it? < 1457313311 496647 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://pastebin.com/Ax2v5XSV < 1457313322 851141 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's the paste, but I also have the github if you like < 1457313357 851544 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, crap, wrong file < 1457313390 202515 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: https://github.com/ZodiacWorkingGroup/Thoof/blob/master/construct.thoof < 1457313393 408309 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read that < 1457313428 622469 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Note that the main theorem no longer shows 2+3=5, it instead was made for dealing with lists < 1457313496 718145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's \g? < 1457313605 973914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm, found a cheatsheet < 1457313730 383290 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Group reference < 1457313742 802032 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: PCRE groups are invaluable in Thoof proving < 1457313859 419636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'd argue that's because they make it easy to beta reduce < 1457313896 852634 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Agreed < 1457313909 447603 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so, single- or multi- proofspace? < 1457313937 415730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :single, theorem prover naming schemes are a clusterfuck regardless < 1457313943 33415 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single is easier, but more unwieldy < 1457313949 332871 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457313959 783135 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll add multiple in a later version < 1457313980 214154 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Alternatively, I could speed up the ONLINE thoof, and just publish that sooner and add a sharing feature < 1457314090 577252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1457314092 85728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEAD :: s/(?P[^:]*).*/\g/; < 1457314114 448032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't that clear the entire expression after the first colon... OK i guess that's what you want < 1457314120 952063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you had a nested array though? < 1457314248 314813 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That isn't supported in the construction yet < 1457314260 686863 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mostly because I have NFC how to do it using regexes alone < 1457314270 963339 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some PCRE bullshit that detects nested parenthesis < 1457314308 629801 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Think I should just make Thoof's online impl sooner instead of something complicated on IRC < 1457314361 657357 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you want to keep the rest, you have to do something complicated with the filesys and stuff (yes, Thoof is going to support a Unix filesys as part of its provingness) < 1457314434 82401 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Besides, what do you expect it to do with the tail of the list? < 1457314530 607445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that wasn't the issue, it's the fact that it can't recurse and it can't apply < 1457314637 201426 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is TC actually < 1457314652 456701 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The fixpoint operator makes it reduce to Thue < 1457314662 509827 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fixpoint is when you prefix an application with @) < 1457314714 955114 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It also supports pattern matching and multiproving < 1457314766 450062 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zplvfafixaoinknh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457314775 559905 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hrvqlpezfzrdkyro JOIN :#esoteric < 1457314993 46448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457315489 619000 :andrew__!~andrew@112.90.37.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457315548 601195 :andrew__!~andrew@112.90.37.236 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457315792 918938 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457316020 325199 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457316487 327850 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457316489 992743 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1457316508 554865 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi < 1457316715 80764 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Is that a DEFCON, or a countdown? < 1457316735 809175 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What part? The [1]? < 1457316745 259622 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1457316757 677141 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2941 < 1457316764 788472 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: My nick is usually hppavilion[1] < 1457316770 332411 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: The [2] is my backup nick < 1457316778 855299 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Which I sometimes am too lazy to change back to [1] < 1457316787 957028 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: It's an array index, hth < 1457316796 468477 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you rivals with hppavilion[0]? hppavilion prime? < 1457316843 470966 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought so, hence my attempt to sizeof(hppavilion) / sizeof(hppavilion[0]), earlier < 1457316900 727824 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457316943 631000 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: hppavilion['wc'] is my alter ego, when hexchat stops working. It's very strange and causes a type error in most languages. < 1457316963 451553 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How rude < 1457317026 101964 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Also, I'm not an array so much as a haskell-like list < 1457317043 560761 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: But one that can be indexed with [] in postfix, because I'm written in haskll < 1457317046 471646 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haskell < 1457317051 518441 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm written in Jskell < 1457317057 755133 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jayskell < 1457317743 13663 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457318136 196932 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457318136 882058 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :godammn windows update holding computer hostage < 1457318296 802277 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is shutting down now! < 1457318387 117097 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457318684 571383 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457319437 243865 :andrew__!~andrew@113.97.176.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457319445 333665 :andrew__!~andrew@113.97.176.134 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457319766 652226 :blockzombie!~blockzomb@eth59-167-133-100.static.internode.on.net PART :#esoteric < 1457320612 275134 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: As an arbitrary selection, I have a question: Which should I put effort into first- a Haskell-like language that compiles to JS (jayskell), or a LISPy language that also compiles to JS? < 1457320627 934855 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Or some other language format? < 1457320708 409038 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of software do you want to write? < 1457320759 673012 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Fun software that runs on the web < 1457320881 725818 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs on the web? like on people's browsers or on servers? < 1457320985 710376 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: In browsers < 1457321020 668737 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's just another language that compiles to JS so we don't have to use that godawful language and can instead use one we're more familiar with the mindset of < 1457321041 723751 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS isn't THAT bad < 1457321063 792744 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's pretty bad < 1457321067 339029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to think JavaScript is pretty good actually < 1457321082 447686 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It may be good for its niche, but it isn't very good in general < 1457321083 226652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a X client library in JavaScript. < 1457321104 638832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wrote a Z-machine implementation in JavaScript, too. < 1457321125 46027 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I heard < 1457321145 83791 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1457321154 530293 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 27% battery and can't get my charger to work < 1457321234 31767 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457321334 925276 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1457321411 780290 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457321433 258495 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457321793 966600 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457322129 270537 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457322160 73039 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457322287 813287 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: What paradigms would be good for web that haven't been done much yet? < 1457322985 554791 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457324685 799269 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457324864 674973 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-188-109-008-107.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457325379 35195 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :If what people have done to the web so far is to be taken into account, then apparently all of them. < 1457325494 323049 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything stateful would be good for the web < 1457325642 997844 :treaki_!~treaki@p54BF2B27.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457325887 709270 :treaki__!~treaki@p5B11CAD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457325998 239615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ther are no paradigms that are good for web? < 1457326054 495017 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1457326496 332594 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1457326853 813137 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457326868 784512 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could have the model where instead of having a single script control gfx elements like buttons and so forth < 1457326888 495921 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457326919 176576 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could instead have buttons etc and you attach an individual script to a button/object < 1457326949 535816 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with easy callbacks like :onclick() < 1457326998 551041 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and individual scripts each have their own thread < 1457327024 511120 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gets a timeslice until the next wait() statement every displayed frame < 1457327076 158560 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure why I am awake but I am < 1457327207 783265 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you do not sleep < 1457327267 785442 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457328042 564752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: because when you're tired, it makes it harder to make decisions, and one such decision is to go to sleep < 1457328055 932189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something I have problems with myself < 1457328082 675931 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually, I went to bed at half past ten < 1457328093 473239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am or pm? < 1457328096 298710 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :pm < 1457328110 601234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:30 to 5:21 is about 7 hours < 1457328118 161416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a reasonable amount of night's sleep < 1457328123 497890 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got out of bed at 4:40 < 1457328134 306881 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :First woke up at 3:27 < 1457328137 639994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1457328141 604540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get out of bed long after I wake up < 1457328147 646932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's at least partly because I do most of my work in bed < 1457328267 97199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, a spambot is trying to sell me web design services: < 1457328275 439272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1.) Website Design & Redesign - (Logo design, Flash, Photoshop to HTML/ HTML5)" < 1457328308 163060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure how this parses, but it seems to involve "Photoshop to HTML" either as a unit or as part of a larger whole, no matter how it's parsed < 1457328359 675418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also apparently do Windows Phone and Blackberry in addition to Android and iPhone < 1457328394 826518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of app development < 1457328845 963849 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol flash < 1457328873 156566 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Furthermore, if one counts demonstrations *not* based on quantum computing, some people have claimed even earlier precedents for [the theorem that 3 \times 5 = 15]." < 1457328916 535273 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like an occasionally useful theorem. < 1457328952 62318 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, scott aaronson is hopeful that quantum computing will soon be able to tackle the factorization of large numbers like 91 < 1457328965 434094 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One does wonder. < 1457329041 656751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what do you think of the theory that quantum computing will prove the many-worlds hypothesis of quantum mechanics via violating bounds on the processing power that can exist in one universe? < 1457329059 617956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something like that /is/ the case, it could be that "large" quantum computers are impossible to construct < 1457329067 397523 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum computers sound like something that's great for the NSA to have but not really for anyone else < 1457329085 622804 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that's a stupid view < 1457329103 864555 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-worlds is not really a theory so much as an interpretation < 1457329105 702019 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, I hope it's useful because next year I'm doing two modules on them < 1457329119 294713 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the science fiction authors who ran with it and then everybody started getting philosophical < 1457329119 427843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: having faster algorithms often ends up having applications unrelated to crypto < 1457329121 624977 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1457329141 162686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was going to say "is there a quantum solution to the travelling salesman problem" < 1457329151 656748 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457329155 335883 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which you mean BQP, presumably? < 1457329164 912715 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : I think there might be < 1457329172 563717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: by which I meant a quantum computer, but then I remembered NP =? BQP < 1457329176 10435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and realised the question wasn't interesting < 1457329185 740984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except inasmuch as NP =? BQP is interesting < 1457329245 392301 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, many-worlds as physicists think of it is rather less silly than what philosophers think. :) < 1457329267 332556 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "philosophers". < 1457329285 663965 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between the physicists' many-worlds? < 1457329295 702223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just a debate about whether the universe uses threads or processes < 1457329333 264008 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physicists notion of "many-worlds" is basically just "for each possible state in a quantum superposition, those states can be said to exist." < 1457329355 342225 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about "many-worlds" in linear logic twh < 1457329371 589820 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :importantly < 1457329381 762041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and /now/ I'm reminded of the proof that God exists due to God being defined as having all positive qualities, and existence is a positive < 1457329391 34207 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-worlds (usually) makes no actual predictions, so it's not really a hypothesis < 1457329394 632861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not convinced that that holds up either logically or theologically < 1457329409 988266 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more precisely < 1457329410 213945 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : that's a classic < 1457329414 427099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how do you define a positive quality anyway?) < 1457329430 418024 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument goes "consider the greatest possible being. This being must exist, because if it didn't, surely a being that existed would be greater." < 1457329438 348650 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which presupposes the existence of a greatest possible being < 1457329448 921126 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, many-worlds really is just "well, this is what the equations describe". < 1457329449 846868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well if there aren't infinitely many beings… < 1457329450 487205 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it has all sorts of logical flaws < 1457329488 245285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think that argument is equivalent to "nothing is better than eternal life, a ham sandwich is better than nothing, therefore a ham sandwich is better than eternal life" < 1457329506 267078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the "greatest" is a "greatest hypothetical", the other is a "greatest currently existing", and the two are conflated < 1457329508 856620 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: infinitely many *possible* beings, though? < 1457329522 564966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I remember reading about this in a Smullyan book. < 1457329523 771307 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention the assumption of an upper bound, which not all posets possess < 1457329525 57649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's conflating two different things and hoping you don't notice < 1457329539 41901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you say that everything exists, or that existence is a property that some things have and some things don't? < 1457329555 324147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd say that that question is a debate about the meaning of the word "everything" < 1457329572 924505 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of a perfect god has many qualities < 1457329593 140824 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the real-world existance is not a quality of that concept < 1457329596 449259 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy the Stewart/Cohen/Pratchett characterization of the argument as being an "argument from God" rather than an "argument for God" < 1457329623 427711 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since real-world existance is a quality of the real world, not a quality of concepts < 1457329696 387850 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a c++ class having a variable that's not in the computer < 1457329732 648256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I read that correctly the first time, looked back to it, looked at it again, and misparsed it as meaning something like "the real world defines itself to exist" < 1457329752 881402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, depending on what you mean by "class having a variable", that's totally possible < 1457329759 215595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have network-abstracted getters and setters < 1457329762 423388 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm like... "this fomulation is clumsy" < 1457329803 906790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if stable time loops could exist in real life < 1457329808 107003 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well then it's not really a variable, it's something that pretends being a variable with setters and getters < 1457329814 387255 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: theoretically, yes < 1457329818 377516 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CTCs < 1457329836 696404 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinatingly, depending on their exact properties, they may or may not allow for increased computing power < 1457329847 966526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was eye-opening doing the maths for my semantics and discovering that it worked perfectly fine without causality < 1457329856 209153 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible, in a many-worlds universe < 1457329869 821930 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: question doesn't make sense < 1457329873 884354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to add causality to get it to reflect the thing it was meant to model < 1457329874 405362 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-worlds makes no predictions < 1457329874 709601 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an universe to essentially be a dead-end so that < 1457329886 749443 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing that most makes me want to get a physics phd < 1457329904 349784 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that quantum field theory, the most advanced understanding of the microscale world that we have, has no causa,ity < 1457329907 353654 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*causality < 1457329922 597995 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the universe gets to that dead end, decides that it's not possible, so that path is eliminated so that the universe goes through some other path < 1457329925 975826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :causality really isn't something that drops naturally out of maths and physics < 1457329952 296251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe there's a really deep philosophical meaning behind "sometimes things just happen", a phrase whose truth value I've seen heavily debated (but not really with arguments, mostly as a shouting match) < 1457329966 535972 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has the side effect of skewing event probability statistics for situations that can lead to "dead end" paths < 1457329998 871261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: this is the theory behind quantum bogosort < 1457330017 37125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should probably never be implemented, because imagine what would happen if you were wrong about how physics works? < 1457330018 422421 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it isn't. It comes from thermodynamics, but calling them the "laws" of thermodynamics overstates them... I cringe every time I hear something "proven" due to thermodynamics < 1457330048 136522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well the laws of thermodynamics are observations which, so far, appear to hold in the universe < 1457330052 453203 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1457330066 232717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if we have explanations for why they're true, they're just a data point for helping to understand things < 1457330068 540581 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are defined in terms of causality < 1457330088 502889 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically the directionality of time < 1457330096 545970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they're time-asymmetric < 1457330099 322460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty rare, really < 1457330102 407413 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457330105 239153 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a huge problem < 1457330108 767938 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :qft is not < 1457330116 421129 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1457330124 975653 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CPT-symmetric < 1457330148 669233 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a very intereting paper out there on the arxiv discussing the thermodynamics of antimatter < 1457330194 167542 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well, I was wondering if this "universe suicide" naturally happens due to the laws of physics < 1457330213 394890 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it describes models of antimatter where the thermodynamics work parallel or antiparallel to our own, the consequences, and concludes that both are compatible < 1457330234 215942 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with physics as we know it, not with each other < 1457330234 962990 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1457330237 149734 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the probability density of some event is due to the relative probability of each resulting universe of not comitting universe-suicide < 1457330238 469542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: so you mean that you think it's impossible to set up a situation in which the universe will eventually be destroyted? < 1457330239 723973 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either result is fascinating < 1457330253 868548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that things that would make it easier to happen are less probable as a result? < 1457330267 573728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm, what if it's undecidable? < 1457330272 821296 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not < 1457330273 92357 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well, for a specific kind of universe destroying < 1457330276 933797 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a physical property of the universe < 1457330288 952257 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :observable, even < 1457330302 797170 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : like as if the whole universe decides 'no' and that path is removed from the possibilities retroactively < 1457330306 16708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case there's not much point in wondering until we get to observe it < 1457330319 52490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: as I said, this is how quantum bogosort "works" < 1457330319 992279 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's worth thinking of an experiment < 1457330329 454076 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : right < 1457330332 93162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how quickly quantum computers can sort things
< 1457330334 649101 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if antimatter is parallel to matter, then QFT is incomplete because thermodynamics breaks CPT symmetry < 1457330352 609189 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: n log n < 1457330376 472377 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if antimatter is antiparallel to matter, then there are regions where thermodynamics work locally backward (though, still, globally forward, assuming a strong enough matter surplus) < 1457330392 910665 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my limited understanding of quantum computers is that basically it's got a distinct independent probability for every combination of qubits in it < 1457330398 403860 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you collapse it < 1457330411 999418 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: not independent < 1457330413 638812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: probabilities can be entangled < 1457330418 681913 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather the point < 1457330430 319393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you couldn't do useful computation with it otherwise < 1457330448 654295 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's why I said probability for "combinations of qubits" instead of probability for "qubits" < 1457330458 682591 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're not independent < 1457330462 995562 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are not probabilities < 1457330491 163805 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quantum system of n qubits is viewed as a 2^n vector, one entry corresponding to each possibly binary state, yes < 1457330492 435625 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's that weird complex domain thing where the probability is the square of the magnitude right? < 1457330497 14516 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457330516 416589 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :each entry is a complex number with the condition that the vector must have norm 1 < 1457330536 510420 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an n-qubit system is a point on the 2^n-dimensional complex unit sphere < 1457330571 996239 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you measure, the probabilities collapse to classical ones by taking the magnitude squared < 1457330595 983813 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you manipulate qubits, the fact that entries are complex can lead to unintuitive results < 1457330633 819191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of thing is what causes wave/particle duality < 1457330647 975872 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the H gate < 1457330650 362847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum electrodynamics has some strong predictive power < 1457330655 502553 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457330715 819658 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :H(1) is a state with 50% propability for 0 and 1, H(0) is a state with 50% propability for 0 and 1, H(H(1)) is 1 and H(H(0)) is 0 < 1457330733 643285 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's a great example < 1457330759 174248 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :X, Y, and Z are boring by comparison < 1457330795 684685 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me a while to make sense < 1457330804 626792 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are great youtube videos < 1457330819 503000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented shor's algorithm as an a level project < 1457330840 624765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on a quantum computer, obviously; on a simulator on a regular CPU that did arithmetic on the quantum probabilities) < 1457330868 651102 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a pretty fantastic professor < 1457330870 671377 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the point at one video where someone told he could emulate up to 8 qubits but that would take tbs of ram < 1457330885 621874 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457330902 789946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor 15 < 1457330913 172433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone factorizes it because they don't have any other options < 1457330913 415398 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the lectures were recorded and put up as private videos on youtube too < 1457330955 737638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how useful is that as a student? they're trying to make that happen here but many of the staff are very uncomfortable with it < 1457330977 587283 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: extremely < 1457330979 675607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gathering more data would be useful to help me know what my opinion should be < 1457330998 436844 :hppavilion[wc]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457331001 892861 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I even attended those lectures < 1457331033 50213 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting them up privately is an interesting decision < 1457331035 668691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a ton of students who write down everything the lecturer says, which I never really understood < 1457331053 433836 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them find it easier to learn that way < 1457331082 348672 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them just want reference material that actually matches up to the lectures (which rarely correspond to the textbook, if any, used) < 1457331086 503632 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them don't know better < 1457331096 160253 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also interesting that you say "staff" < 1457331105 623103 :vyv!~vyv@142.114.229.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457331110 478206 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean teaching staff? < 1457331116 434534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what do you expect me to have said? but yes, teaching staff < 1457331136 256875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the sysadmins are a little annoyed too but mostly in a "more work" sort of way < 1457331159 554631 :vyv!~vyv@142.114.229.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457331227 214084 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if "rejected" universes of the multiverse don't "selfdestruct" like in quantum bogosort but go backwards in time and make themselves impossible? (ok I clearly don't know enough about quantum physics to ask this but I'm still curious) < 1457331236 533069 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here, the distinction between "staff" and "faculty" is quite sharply draw < 1457331239 552491 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drawn < 1457331255 149610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do some of students know how to write shorthand so that they can write everything they say? < 1457331255 392647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, probably just an international language variant thing < 1457331261 322886 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: it's not really a physics question < 1457331266 440020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of the word "faculty" being a word but am not really sure what it means < 1457331277 696063 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not neceessarily, because there's a class aspect to it < 1457331279 750700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: possibly, but it's common for students to ask lecturers to wait so that the student can finish writing < 1457331291 899135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't, as a lecturer, really talk faster than the slowest student writes anyway < 1457331296 95222 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :faculty are the professors and, increasingly, lecturers < 1457331301 91215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn faculty < 1457331302 600738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "faculty" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1457331302 734887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :faculty < 1457331302 734961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: one of the inherent cognitive or perceptual powers of the < 1457331302 734984 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mind [syn: {faculty}, {mental faculty}, {module}] < 1457331302 735003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: the body of teachers and administrators at a school; "the < 1457331304 589257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : dean addressed the letter to the entire staff of the < 1457331306 591454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : university" [syn: {staff}, {faculty}] < 1457331322 909629 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ranking administrators, of course, since they must be professors themselves < 1457331324 628246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnet has a "syn:" on the words < 1457331337 780630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there's a rule that administrators must be professors? < 1457331339 838754 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: many professors here simply go as fast as they can explain the math, and it's up to you to catch up < 1457331353 640143 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyone with authority over a professor must be. < 1457331367 323974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then you must learn shorthand writing < 1457331369 897194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here the main problem with finding qualified people to administrate is to persuade them to take the job, few people want to < 1457331371 384874 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so department chairs, deans, some vice-presidents, and presidents < 1457331376 74221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the people who do are rarely suited for it < 1457331383 181 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a problem here too, moreso at the department level < 1457331388 625007 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is up to you to catch up. < 1457331397 526875 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the higher ranks, some academics are career administrators and move from school to school < 1457331413 990324 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the senior administrators don't actually teach, mind you < 1457331431 153994 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :academia < 1457331466 41577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a "central administration" which doesn't teach and isn't attached to a subject < 1457331469 932774 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a strong culture that academics should not be subject to non-academics' authoirty < 1457331487 774870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyone associated with a subject, including as a head of school or whatever, teaches too, as far as I know < 1457331501 727746 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends how high up you are < 1457331509 880605 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the size of your unit, etc. < 1457331510 13969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do about people like human resources, accounting, etc.? < 1457331517 402096 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the staff < 1457331519 551440 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"staff" < 1457331522 596663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people have a lot of authority, and sort-of need it to do their jobs < 1457331531 203940 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, but not direct authority < 1457331534 513608 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad deliberately takes more teaching work in order to avoid administrative work as much as possible < 1457331536 688742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they aren't generally academics and it doesn't make much sense for them to be < 1457331558 606272 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, no academic has a non-academic in their chain of command < 1457331567 289617 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean that the non-academics have no power! < 1457331572 825031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chain of command can be fairly meaningless at times < 1457331588 241784 :hppavilion[wc]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1457331592 306735 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a matter of principle really < 1457331606 845969 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually they avoid a chain of command by having lots of commitees that my dad never attends < 1457331625 527417 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, what does your dad teach? < 1457331630 154445 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also to reserve academic decisions to the academics < 1457331631 959206 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :math < 1457331642 198017 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one math? < 1457331659 946585 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the suppport staff don't make academic decisions, and they never have academics as reports, the academics can't be told what to teach/research by the non-academics < 1457331685 748714 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, calculus, logic, and operations research (this year) < 1457331713 667509 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice! < 1457331734 257340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: we can basically be limited in what to research by what we can get funding for < 1457331740 469981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which often depends on external entities < 1457331772 487054 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's true here too < 1457331780 33967 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the academics chafe against that, naturally < 1457331792 51605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457331797 44631 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in large part, the real chafing is against the government < 1457331797 177791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the requirements are often bizarre < 1457331801 891330 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm sure you have there too < 1457331837 725767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure, the government is many steps away indirectly, and the EU government probably matters more than the UK government for the purpose < 1457331856 535787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's kind-of specific to being in Europe < 1457331870 475925 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the government controls the purse-strings, though < 1457331883 501381 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, a lot of people here in Ontario are upset with the degree of enrollment growth at universities < 1457331891 562625 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :feeling that it's diluting the quality of education < 1457331903 848644 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the government has decided that funding is allocated based on enrollment growth so up it goes < 1457331960 794294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, rapid increases in attendance can be a problem here too < 1457332006 837610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're building constantly to try to keep up; the building I'm in had its layout changed, e.g. all the common rooms were combined into one and the old ones were converted into offices, just to try to get more office space < 1457332016 226188 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a student I'm not really privy to the inner workings of my university, but it got fined a couple of years ago for taking on more students than it could accomodate < 1457332034 146111 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the problem is that people enroll in degrees and don't learn anything useful, and then complain that they can't pay their loans < 1457332042 813350 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 300 students who were guaranteed on-campus accomodation were housed off-campus (I was one of them) < 1457332044 972032 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest semanticsTest (>(>{})*1)%2 <<< < 1457332045 181083 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.semanticsTest: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457332047 495281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of the land nearby got bought up and now student accommodation is being built on it (in the passive because I'm not entirely sure who's responsible for that happening) < 1457332052 121014 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest semanticsTest (>(>{})*1)%2 <<<<< < 1457332052 294404 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.semanticsTest: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457332068 803287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest semanticsTest (>(>{})%1)*2 <<< < 1457332069 20445 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.semanticsTest: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457332071 479101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that's equivalent to (>(>{})%1)*2 < 1457332083 619695 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I was on both of said senate and board as a student representative. It was a fascinating experience. < 1457332084 957245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some a(ba(bcd)*2ed)*2e < 1457332456 143765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next question is "is it useful", but it probably is < 1457332499 665824 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to be less confusing, the BF Joust page should probably just make having )* and )% synonyms is standard, and explain that the two symbols exist for historical reasons. < 1457332510 202262 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least. < 1457332543 542096 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be clear that there's no distinction between )% and )* that lets you make nestings that implementation wouldn't < 1457332548 933365 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1457332552 763220 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they're explicitly forbidden. < 1457332586 459546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could arguably change the semantics again < 1457332601 935509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inside {} matches outside % rule is pretty new, and came out of a discussion in #esoteric < 1457332619 692331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't use it in any of my programs (even though it would have helped a couple of times) because I don't trust interpreters with it < 1457332640 811849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't consider the #esoteric hills to define BF Joust, although IIRC nyuroki was originally written for an implementation that didn't even support %) < 1457332669 94742 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one had a completely different algorithm. < 1457332673 115022 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically a different program. < 1457332708 234248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1457332710 975790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just like the name? < 1457332717 374841 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well. Yeah. Basically. Didn't check before decoys either. < 1457332722 390885 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite < 1457332729 28233 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was originally the same program. < 1457332734 935875 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then lots of changes happened. < 1457332741 777904 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it should have a 2 on the end. < 1457332742 789700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457332749 701576 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't < 1457332752 551776 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't < 1457332768 153241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins3 is basically an entirely different program from margins except that it uses the same basic strategy of playing for a draw if conditions in the first few turns don't work out favourably < 1457332801 840111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that is the first time I've used Firefox's "search for an open tab" thing intentionally < 1457332808 889461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get at the zemhill matrix < 1457332815 967158 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both use the same basic strategy still too. < 1457332975 196490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: btw I updated the wiki article to talk about decoy detection < 1457333019 409714 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw. < 1457333048 659441 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, both versions set decoys, then go do a slowish clear. < 1457333075 869291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a description of 90% of hilltopping programs over the last several years < 1457333102 699036 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457333108 126120 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its strategy for anti-lock was to nest another copy of the clear loop after it falls through (under some conditions) so it does make leaps of faith. < 1457333181 874235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaps of faith are something that IMO you can't do if you're looking for a 100% win rate, but may help if you're only going for topping the hill < 1457333199 519333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, it's possible to do very well by exploiting the existence of leaps of faith on the hill < 1457333249 435362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks if anticipation2 is still there
< 1457333261 946249 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :0% lose rate rather, right? < 1457333271 466323 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If margins had no tripwire < 1457333273 326037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1457333283 431075 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would force leaps of faith, or else, you can't win. < 1457333295 82001 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'd probably take ties too, if margins is willing to. < 1457333295 989702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: oh, by that, I mean it gets a better than 50:50 record against each other program < 1457333307 662038 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1457333308 345407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are programs I've written before now that have pulled that off and /not/ topped the hill at that time < 1457333333 969768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they did so later; in some cases I may have edited my own programs to lose to them temporarily to give them their moment at the top of the hill) < 1457333360 77623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins strikes me as not being the sort of program for which a 100% win rate is feasible < 1457333369 51201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've been wrong before now < 1457333518 293811 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to make a nyuroki 2, or something. < 1457333536 33513 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep the basic approach, but, actually react appropriately to different behaviors. < 1457333548 72279 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of just skipping decoy setup and going straight to rush. < 1457333592 137195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, the basic reactions to behaviours have become so standardised now that people have started exploiting them < 1457333604 747819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omnipotence trips enemy tripwires intentionally then starts defending, for exampel < 1457333619 755769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tends to cause the opponents to assume fast rush and not use counter-defence mechanisms < 1457333688 517992 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about.. < 1457333703 708207 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set a tripwire right next to your flag, then do the reverse decoy setup? < 1457333704 494006 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457333727 877345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, that's what most programs do at the moment < 1457333738 86166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically checking the tripwire every now and then, and panicking if it gets tripped < 1457333761 977910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the basic problem being that you can /detect/ that the enemy is on your flag, but it's much less clear what you're meant to do about it) < 1457333765 900655 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of if there's a case where < 1457333777 685351 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find a conflicting decoy setup, and it matters if the flag tripwire is broken. < 1457333778 295630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :various possibilities involve attempted locks, and careless clears < 1457333813 671217 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might steal Margin's double tripwire here, and just attempt a lock. < 1457333827 804535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if the flag tripwire is broken as the result of a decoy clash you can typically assume that the tape's no longer than about 11 < 1457333866 503500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag tripwire broken as the result of a deep poke or fast rush is much more likely < 1457333881 262472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in either case, decoys aren't going to help, but it's less clear what you should do instead < 1457334020 37752 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jumped straight to cell 14 if I didn't find a decoy conflict, in fact. < 1457334042 410763 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be a bad assumption though < 1457334054 166674 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it assumes reverse decoy setups from the opponents. < 1457334069 970086 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing how such a simple game has become so complex < 1457334090 642663 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if I get really bored someday I'll do genetic evolution of bfjoust programs < 1457334094 232358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: well, I think about BF Joust like this: < 1457334098 476381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two main classes of programs < 1457334123 668813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the "standard strategy" programs, for which the actual strategy changes slowly over time, but for which the programs tend to converge < 1457334131 200561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "experimental" programs that are doing something weird < 1457334144 37335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do well you have to beat both classes < 1457334158 438786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beating standard strategy programs normally relies on exploiting their common weaknesses (see, e.g. ais523.counterpoke) < 1457334186 542356 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think BFJoust is ammendable to genetic evolution. < 1457334196 981868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beating experimental programs relies on having a good, resilient strategy (such as a ton of large decoys) that's generally hard to defeat quickly < 1457334205 703280 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to smooth out the fitness landscape somehow < 1457334205 836504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having some sort of valid attack < 1457334216 845485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the best programs for beating experimental programs are normally the standard ones < 1457334250 992938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a programs designed to consistently beat standard programs tends to have to be experimental < 1457334272 815158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but most experimental programs will fail to beat standard programs unless they identify a common weakness that allows them to do so) < 1457334281 396728 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it might be that Nyuroki's flaws aren't standard at all, so, experimental programs fail to poke at them.. < 1457334335 364787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to analyze nyuroki more, really < 1457334344 591099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically I run programs on tape length 25 against a few other programs to see how they work < 1457334350 33721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that allows you to see the "main strategy" < 1457334367 63850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have more tape length to see the patterns play out) < 1457334376 622553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really hold in cases where decoy clashes, etc., are an intended part of the duel < 1457334393 526100 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is detecting short tape lengths relatively standard now? < 1457334422 890459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally make some attempt at it but it normally isn't very successful < 1457334442 440491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poking has been done for ages, and is definitely part of what I would consider the standard strategy < 1457334445 617217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the form of the poke varies) < 1457334456 431014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and poking gives a lot of clues about the tape length < 1457334462 207064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty revolutionary when quintopia invented it < 1457334515 38723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Gregor's versions of it (the furry girls) are probably the most definitive; the original quintopia_poke was very primitive < 1457334575 932149 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457334588 130655 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it is that you can only do so much in the earlier steps of the game. < 1457334605 969165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ffspg is down at #38 < 1457334607 321577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't poke after so long < 1457334609 441334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the mighty has fallen < 1457334619 23501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, the first few turns are very critical < 1457334624 672803 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think there's still time to do the reverse decoy setup thing after a poke? < 1457334634 935570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you aim to block enemy pokes, set up your own, or a bit of both? < 1457334637 717068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's totally time < 1457334643 292731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you leave a medium decoy on cell 6 or so < 1457334649 581402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hope that the opponent's poke didn't get inside it < 1457334658 646170 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might just see very directly that the tape is (probably) small. < 1457334660 702177 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes sense. < 1457334667 936879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, ofc, time you waste doing that means that you may fail to get inside the opponent's decoys when you could have done otherwise < 1457334671 341628 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave decoy -> poke -> return to decoy setup. < 1457334691 226124 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get a decoy conflict *then*, either the opponent trails, or you're on a very small tae. < 1457334692 493587 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape* < 1457334724 380296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!egojoust is_this_working_yet (>)*8(>[(+)*8[-]])*21 < 1457334727 158514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1457334730 357843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust is_this_working_yet (>)*8(>[(+)*8[-]])*21 < 1457334755 501746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes < 1457334765 384695 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do you do with that information? < 1457334769 681614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably work against preparation < 1457334789 797373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, knowing you're on a short tape should bias you towards fast rush programs < 1457334810 836418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins3's strategy on a short tape is basically a copy and paste of stealth3, but with some details changed < 1457334828 301533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stealth series is a fast rush idea I had a while back that I never really got to work < 1457334831 237603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is sort of what my scripting language is for, at least. for($minimumTapeLength in 1 to 30) { > [ $mainBody($minimumTapeLength) ] } < 1457334835 120924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works much better on short tapes < 1457334979 215210 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... maybe evolutionary algorithm time? < 1457334979 702279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust this_is_working_yet (>)*8(>[(+)*8[-]])*21 < 1457334980 140282 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.this_is_working_yet: points -8.14, score 13.81, rank 46/47 < 1457334993 130652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, I didn't expect it to do well < 1457334999 717929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't come last! :-D < 1457335016 375451 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with a fixed block that distinguishes minimum tape lengths and some conditions. < 1457335030 784658 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And give the decoy constants, etc to an evolutionary algorithm to play with. < 1457335033 561205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an evolutionary algorithm for tweaking constants < 1457335036 574745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't use it on margins3, though < 1457335048 690902 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd run it against the set of all programs that existed in BFJoust ever. < 1457335065 547477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically I only use it on programs that are close to the top of the hill to squeeze out a few more points < 1457335084 129449 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique.helloerjan: points -33.14, score 2.92, rank 47/47 < 1457335121 244536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, how long ago was /that/ submitted < 1457335124 95488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is prooftechnique online righ tnow? < 1457335128 10771 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1457335138 779379 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wanted to get on the board before bed :D < 1457335142 14819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very complex-to-run program < 1457335146 279806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suspect it was submitted by PM < 1457335199 930693 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably make a real effort tomorrow at work. I've been reading the wiki on and off all day < 1457335251 424142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I like about BF Joust is that you can compete against yourself indefinitely even if nobody else is playing < 1457335258 718015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I've noticed is that everyone has their own style < 1457335260 827390 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust rank45plz ---(>>++++)*4(>(-)*20([+{}[-.-+]])%500)*20([-.-+])*-1 < 1457335261 348191 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.rank45plz: points -19.74, score 7.34, rank 47/47 < 1457335264 608852 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1457335288 704255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write a gimmick program I often see a lot of correlation between its score and the author of the program it plays against < 1457335308 782674 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1457335321 721563 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like reading the comments in your programs, ais523 < 1457335344 327279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust sometimes >(+)*128<(-)*128(+-)*-1 < 1457335344 930430 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.sometimes: points -5.21, score 14.91, rank 41/47 < 1457335345 947016 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very informative, and often entertaining < 1457335360 310586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: well they're partly for me and partly for other people < 1457335369 227736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about the base64 < 1457335389 641410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it wasn't too hard to get the program into a readable form < 1457335401 60361 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all. A fish one-liner < 1457335426 781899 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the base64 anyway < 1457335428 595697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even developed a sort of "comment grammar" that uses only BF Joust-safe characters < 1457335432 237466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of semicolons rather than commas < 1457335444 506239 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just went and made a macro processor for BFJoust < 1457335450 146777 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has a proper grammar for comments. < 1457335450 280127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it's encoding a Perl script < 1457335453 491954 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1457335456 490595 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains everything. < 1457335459 251842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that generates the program < 1457335473 884683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base64ed it so that I could put it into the program's source without stray parentheses < 1457335479 839328 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The script grammar I wrote wasn't written to be BF Joust safe at all though < 1457335484 839751 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just linked to the source instead. < 1457335531 141770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking's fine, and sometimes you have to do that (e.g. anticipation2, which is running up against code size limit) < 1457335540 311002 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, time for sleep. Maybe I'll think of a goofy joust gimmick in the meantime. Night, all < 1457335544 67403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer to have everything in one place < 1457335545 956675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night prooftechnique < 1457335568 351337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should be able to see how my program was generated just with a copy of the repo, in most cases < 1457335599 686630 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1457335611 232136 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a formal BFJoust spec is in order? < 1457335628 78783 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, BNF and hopefully unambigious semantics. < 1457335628 995926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki page is reasonably formal, and has become more so over time < 1457335646 95086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's some debate about whether the % to {} matching thing even works in BNF < 1457335656 740764 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't describe it in BNF? < 1457335667 481543 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Describe ()% and {} seperately < 1457335672 767539 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presume compilers resolve it at a later stage. < 1457335685 976789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I'm not sure which categories of languages can describe it in a remotely semantic way < 1457335694 672489 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of things in normal programming languages that you can't describe in BNF < 1457335713 349612 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if something like... < 1457335735 290540 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :1#(2#(1#{2#{}})%2)%2 has any chance of working < 1457335736 740120 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1457335881 161561 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, nope. Definitely not. < 1457335951 509685 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you do about "incompatible" semantics? < 1457335957 747557 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46505&oldid=44193 5* 03Ais523 5* (-4) 10/* External resources */ better (i.e. direct-linkable, also it's the original) link for the origins of BF Joust < 1457335966 790202 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like nesting {} inside ()* inside ()% < 1457335971 586335 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making ()* and ()% distinct < 1457335989 914158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: the * meaning the same thing as % thing is just implementation convenience < 1457336001 535427 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1457336006 309945 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But programs are written assuming it. < 1457336022 248671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we allow ()* in the a and b portions of a ()%, inside implementations would just have to suck it up < 1457336032 370835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've fixed programs via editing the hill manually to adjust them for spec changes in the past < 1457336050 582586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some old hill-toppers with ([)*n in them < 1457336070 85053 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hr < 1457336071 309577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm* < 1457336142 950585 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be possible to write new opcodes that expand to infinite (or extremely long) BFJoust programs. < 1457336174 706288 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457336175 505338 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457336182 568122 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457336188 588411 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1457336205 274772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] < 1457336210 561596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(adapted for current rules) < 1457336215 134857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and syntax) < 1457336218 589706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] < 1457336219 46713 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.comex_the_first_program_ever: points -17.31, score 9.39, rank 47/47 < 1457336223 446435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also let's submit it to a hill that works < 1457336225 65375 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpreter needs your program to end < 1457336243 702553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ? < 1457336248 364743 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some cases where I wanted to do something in my BFJoust macro processor < 1457336260 25926 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may be possible to write one that can handle an infinite stream of bf characters < 1457336264 784395 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd have to expand to a hundreds of megabytes long script. < 1457336272 687360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1457336274 557971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it beats smartlock, probably because smartlock is so special-cased < 1457336297 185050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I'm aware of the problem < 1457336301 581886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :${defmacro name ... ${name} ... ${name} ....}$ < 1457336308 106901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general it's the reason there's a program size limit < 1457336312 820316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop people writing things that go exponential < 1457336319 187005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest example is an if/then/else < 1457336320 845688 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd expand to an exponential length program. < 1457336334 440881 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's expandable to BFJoust. < 1457336347 55603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be worth it to integrate something like that into a hill? < 1457336354 685754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a (if nonzero then b else c) d expands to a[bd]cd < 1457336375 184222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tends to blow up very quickly < 1457336378 937267 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not generally a problem like that. < 1457336382 920973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the duplication of d < 1457336386 787467 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't blow up too quickly. < 1457336409 581723 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write the equivalent of continue or break does. < 1457336421 301625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, break < 1457336431 793485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many cunning methods of writing break that I've seen < 1457336445 925811 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyuroki's main loop is basically < 1457336464 256481 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>[... {} anti-defense continue ...])*21 < 1457336503 761560 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457336523 222578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you mean %21 < 1457336541 564455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also IMO that's inferior to the (>[clear][antidefence])*21 method < 1457336553 910652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it gets tricked by vibrators < 1457336562 701899 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more complex than that < 1457336564 953886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually < 1457336574 63718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the nyuroki versus anticipation2 matchup
< 1457336575 938333 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>([... {} [anti-defense] continue ...])*2)*21 < 1457336589 946438 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .. has a ()% somewhere in it < 1457336593 721046 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i didn't include it < 1457336643 863061 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457336648 55341 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1457336681 542358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it comes down to timer clear, I think? < 1457336721 652745 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The {} is supposed to represent exiting the timer clear. < 1457336735 473012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering if it hit one of the unimplemented cases in anticipation2 but it doesn't < 1457336742 874272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everthing works fine up until the final defense loop < 1457336745 758774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the lock just breaks < 1457336804 517332 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anticipation supposed to hide its flag? < 1457336816 47544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457336828 852489 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki doesn't actually skip a cell unless it's zero for 0 cycles. (>([main clear loop])*2)*21 < 1457336829 209089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the enemy doesn't vary clear pattern, its flag will always be 0 when encountered for the first time < 1457336842 139325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, ([main clear loop])*2 < 1457336850 470479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that < 1457336869 661834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally I use a specific counter-defence clear loop after the main one rather than just running the main one twice, but those can be hard to write) < 1457336898 802208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why it's called anticipation, it times the opponent's code and anticipates the moment the opponent will zero-check its flag < 1457336905 490442 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also causes an exponential blowup. < 1457336913 178775 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because break + two loops isn't compatible. < 1457336921 426350 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I didn't do it. < 1457336933 302116 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki is basically a long list of things I didn't do because the program would have exponential size. < 1457336956 909537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me about it :-) < 1457336977 383841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the restrictions that come with the size limit < 1457337014 612653 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does anticipiation deal with timer clears? < 1457337017 558480 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it just not < 1457337021 887560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I designed a "minijoust" with the following rules: very serious length limit on programs (short enough that they all fit onto one line of IRC); and in the case of a timeout, whichever program ran the most . instructions wins < 1457337037 714913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, they hadn't been around at the time < 1457337051 604727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, they'd been only recently invented < 1457337056 750727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most programs didn't use them < 1457337062 937497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it beats some timer clear programs via the vibration < 1457337114 783590 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ()*2 pretty much invalidates vibration. < 1457337118 796874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457337127 623765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vibration is easy to defeat if you expect it < 1457337129 799915 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it hurts in any cases? < 1457337137 973251 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody in their right mind is going to vibrate off their flag. < 1457337142 421890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason I wrote anticipation2 was because someone (maybe even me) submitted a vibration program for fun and it did unexpectedly well < 1457337164 237472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some fast rush programs genuinely can't spare the extra cycle < 1457337194 929523 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's fast enough < 1457337199 725162 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hits cell 30 before cycle 128 < 1457337204 885525 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be vibrated, right? < 1457337221 69774 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it gets caught by a flag or a decoy, it can switch to something more careful. < 1457337229 514321 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it definitely isn't fast rushing anymore. < 1457337272 426391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vibration programs normally leave a decoy to get enough time to zero their own flag < 1457337290 623846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the reason you need to go quickly is to get inside the decoys of enemies that set multiple < 1457337316 552023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nothing to do with vibrators < 1457337360 391491 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>+>-)*4(>+>([(+)*10([-{}[-.-+]])%500])*2)*-1 < 1457337360 744887 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.parity: points -19.52, score 7.63, rank 47/47 < 1457337370 181200 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>)*7(>+>([(+)*10([-{}[-.-+]])%500])*2)*-1 < 1457337370 526358 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.parity: points -14.12, score 10.01, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457337384 539356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME parity is hardly ever a factor in matchups nowadays, except for sometimes lock-based ones < 1457337389 53223 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>)*7(>>[(+)*20[-]]))*-1 < 1457337389 186631 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: terminating ) without a matching ( < 1457337397 153507 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>)*7(>>[(+)*20[-]])*-1 < 1457337397 447616 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.parity: points -13.52, score 10.72, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457337399 334476 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457337403 196613 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnurd < 1457337406 590808 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-load < 1457337406 723967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily said 14h 51m 28s ago: mrelloman. < 1457337410 599360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to win the even length tapes only < 1457337416 22284 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the fastest rush ever. < 1457337416 535026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, impomatic is here < 1457337416 668376 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1457337419 593675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: oh, I see < 1457337427 661765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan.netsnail worked like that? < 1457337458 924260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an improved version of that is a fast rush program that only checks every nth cell for the first set cell, but rushes more normally once it finds one < 1457337510 74685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust collision2 (>)*7(>>[([(+)*3[-[-]]>])*-1])*-1 < 1457337510 455807 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.collision2: points -8.62, score 12.87, rank 47/47 < 1457337524 739029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, at this rate we might actually get somewhere :-) < 1457337529 250895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust collision2 (>+)*7(>>[([(+)*3[-[-]]>])*-1])*-1 < 1457337529 598145 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.collision2: points -15.81, score 9.42, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457337533 370442 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is such a difficult hill. < 1457337537 66023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1457337550 916773 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think given enough time all hills become difficult < 1457337552 892666 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust totally (+--+)*-1 < 1457337553 483669 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.totally: points -19.60, score 7.02, rank 47/47 < 1457337557 513441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that at this point, the best way to attack it is with a program that does something really unusual < 1457337560 517846 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you made a rock paper scissors hill it would end up difficult < 1457337571 821044 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1457337576 77853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't know, the hill that was basically all turtles got beaten pretty quickly < 1457337576 937844 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the point of a hill, kinda. < 1457337578 569247 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1457337588 870126 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which hill? < 1457337591 676354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'd been playing for a while when that happened < 1457337595 795939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: old version of egojoust < 1457337605 978527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtles had only been recently invented < 1457337609 458065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they were doing really well < 1457337612 153552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :competent turtles, that is < 1457337621 230295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people had submitted non-working versions of them in the past < 1457337621 893560 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cororoallary: if the hill is easy, you haven't given it enough time < 1457337632 369592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hills get easier sometimes < 1457337658 521498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that time when someone (not naming names, but wasn't me) submitted a bunch of copies of omnipotence with different names < 1457337662 321558 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to spell, or how to pronounce, corollororary < 1457337666 655111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time, omnipotence beat every other program < 1457337677 981663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it pushed all the other progams off the hill < 1457337695 276498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hill would have been trivial to top, assuming you can come up with something that beats omnipotence (it's not hard, especially if you know how it works) < 1457337708 226075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, probably wasn't omnipotence < 1457337710 683386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been waterfall3 < 1457337718 935821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think omnipotence ever had 100% wins < 1457337803 448332 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see < 1457337832 631003 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to implement my 100% win rate bot sometime. < 1457337839 811475 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blatant autogeneration and hill fitting. < 1457337862 583502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people have had that idea < 1457337869 907163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the EgoBot bfjoust healed yet? < 1457337874 884339 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1457337875 663648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a) probably possible to do in most practical cases; b) harder than it seems < 1457337887 107160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who hosts egobot? < 1457337894 120627 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea was to decompose all "enemy bots" into tuples of "enemy bot, tape length, parity" < 1457337896 241766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should probably be pinged as I suspect it's pegging a CPU < 1457337902 95985 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then run them all in parallel. < 1457337918 187122 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure it's EgoBot, rather then the hill that's stuck? < 1457337919 915920 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So decide the best action on that tick, and advance every possible case at once. < 1457337920 350639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: fwiw, it's possible to write a set of programs that it is impossible to collectively beat all of < 1457337923 433548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no < 1457337932 653644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I only /suspect/ it's pegging a CPU < 1457337932 860581 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Someone brought that up last time I talked about it. < 1457337940 151713 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think 47 bots is enough to do it. < 1457337949 717698 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1457337957 582645 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, I'd be surprised if 2 bots wasn't enough to do it < 1457337960 682326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest construction I'm aware of a proof for requires 768 < 1457337968 261439 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am surprised < 1457337971 783414 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you don't have to beat all of them at once. you just have to beat enough of that in each step to gradually push some off the heap, and eventually start beating enough to get to the top < 1457337975 449288 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, the key is < 1457338000 449338 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If three bots would do +, -, and . on your flag all on the same cycle. < 1457338001 442487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmm, clever < 1457338015 598360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just do ++ sometime beforehand, so your flag is 2 when the bots would clear it if it would be 0. < 1457338017 149587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what? < 1457338025 390324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's clever? not achieving 100% wins? < 1457338034 133607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this devious gradual hill takeover < 1457338040 738366 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get to the top of the hill with one bot without making it 100% win < 1457338046 102583 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've done that multiple times < 1457338061 958925 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how hard an infinite hill would be to maintain < 1457338063 296182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes but most of the time it's because the program is genuinely better than any of the others < 1457338065 635003 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least a huge one. < 1457338076 211645 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you even brought up how it's not obvious who the best Go player is that google should challenge or something < 1457338077 222385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could create a sort of Swiss hill < 1457338082 875023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where programs only competed against those nearby < 1457338094 25348 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, you'd need a way to remove blurgh bots < 1457338126 499790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw the hill sizes are twice as big as they used to be < 1457338128 802784 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :blurgh bots? < 1457338131 947453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we like the diversity in a larger hill < 1457338142 791127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I assume Taneb is talking about bots that do nothing useful < 1457338147 719389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the syntax check bots we had earlier < 1457338150 844989 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, those < 1457338154 714236 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457338156 743420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about this < 1457338162 477247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have the exact same breakdown as a previous bot < 1457338168 3643 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a "qualifier"? < 1457338171 275903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get saved < 1457338174 132071 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A set of maybe 10-20 fixed bots. < 1457338183 368572 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you don't get on the hill if you can't 100% sweep, or maybe beat 80% < 1457338190 197819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, we only have one suicide, one nop, etc. < 1457338190 758631 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing advanced or clever. < 1457338215 153818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? how would more than one of the syntax check bots even get to the hill? don't they lose too often to get on the hill? < 1457338222 424719 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a demonstration that you aren't a potato. < 1457338232 167259 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, we're talking about an infinite hill. < 1457338245 521989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... what < 1457338255 749422 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hill without a fixed size. < 1457338266 680105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could at least force people to beat simple < 1457338277 900919 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd be a good qualifier bot set? < 1457338283 146342 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hill without a size limit makes no sense < 1457338303 576228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, quite a few highly advanced programs lose to simple because its lack of counter-anything causes it to be one cycle faster moving from one tape element to the next than it's possible to detect) < 1457338348 55351 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, perhaps "hill" isn't the right term. Maybe "ladder" < 1457338353 429499 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1457338354 362618 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you could do is lock a few hand-selected bots on the ill < 1457338366 830807 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a hill that's unbounded upwards but has a fixed bottom? < 1457338372 219146 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd say a set of basic (or not so basic?) bots that bots to get on the hill have to beat. < 1457338373 930659 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a few champions from each year that are hand-checked to make sense < 1457338377 290230 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a few basics < 1457338384 403457 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say... < 1457338391 119240 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if a submission loses to the 10 bottom it falls off the hill < 1457338391 946994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make it obligatory to beat them, just lock them on the hill so the hill includes them < 1457338393 163925 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :50% or 75% winrate against them to qualify in the first place. < 1457338394 745079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I guess we could write an intentionally bad implementation of each of the main strategies < 1457338394 946452 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int he score < 1457338402 345958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as gatekeepers < 1457338407 101616 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1457338408 794040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that < 1457338419 202734 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, if the hill is infinite < 1457338419 926349 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would only let bots that work against _all_ strategies on the hill < 1457338427 417575 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no point in locking anything on the hill. < 1457338437 951672 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because once a bot is on, it can't actually fall off. < 1457338456 910766 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the heck do you even call it a hill then if you can't fall off? < 1457338460 229937 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The markov scoring should make it so that 90% potatos still doesn't affect the upper part of the hill much, right? < 1457338473 147594 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you call it, then, and why does it matter to you? < 1457338518 490286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, a pool or something < 1457338520 269202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about a hill that knocks off programs, not because they score badly, but because they're too similar to a better-scoring program < 1457338525 398571 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really understand how this would work < 1457338530 436606 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how would you detect that/ < 1457338532 973315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using whatever similarity measure we want, maybe breakdown < 1457338575 898805 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would that make it impossible to add new programs similar to an existing one that aren't _yet_ as good as the original, but eventually might be? < 1457338578 323706 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now we use names as the "identifier" for replacing programs, right? < 1457338589 103126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we find the two programs with the greatest number of matchups for which they both lose, and delete the one which has the most losses elsewhere < 1457338593 961647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes < 1457338607 214862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: until you improved them, possibly < 1457338608 261754 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457338610 197888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see this as a problem < 1457338613 392529 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about clustering bots somehow? < 1457338624 435012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that you'd still get feedback on what the score would be, it just hasn't happened) < 1457338624 568395 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And keeping the 5-10 best of every cluster? < 1457338631 32776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: fizzie's way ahead of you on the clustering < 1457338644 244283 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if there's a cluster that's too dense (detecting that somehow) < 1457338650 143023 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cull just that. < 1457338656 42863 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh! Going on a tangent a bit < 1457338673 635679 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any BF Joust-y games that are more accessible? < 1457338675 929260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: http://zem.fi/egostats/tn_plot_cluster.png for breakdown cluster, http://zem.fi/egostats/tn_plot_heatclust.png for heatmap cluster < 1457338690 169922 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean, competitive programming games < 1457338744 695971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I think BF Joust is one of the most accessible; there's a whole wiki of them at http://programminggames.org/ (e.g. http://programminggames.org/BF-Joust.ashx) that you could look at, I guess < 1457338797 543310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, BF Joust's even mentioned on the front page, under "programming games of note" < 1457338819 525920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is Final Fantasy XII < 1457338823 830097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting interpretation of the genre, that < 1457338968 856260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting thought experiment: given everything that we know about BF Joust now and didn't before, write a program for the original BF Joust that does something clever < 1457338988 128390 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Original"? < 1457338990 926729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _original_ one? is that the one that's parity locked? < 1457339002 79078 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was the tape size and program size limit for that? < 1457339002 587516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, the original's even older < 1457339017 345231 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, what do you mean by "more accessible"? < 1457339022 132981 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :To non-esolang programmers? < 1457339022 563248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape size was 128-134 IIRC, and you died from a zero flag in one cycle < 1457339026 130875 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, yeah < 1457339033 565026 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like robocode, I think < 1457339035 728112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, and no dot command and no repetition syntax < 1457339045 623807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I've been thinking (as a far-future thing) about making a reflavoured BF Joust game < 1457339055 647821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mathematically equivalent but less obviously connected to BF < 1457339058 407623 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a "programming game" per se, like, BFJoust or Redcode. < 1457339077 537580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :redcode's the language; the game is called core wars < 1457339081 400345 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opps < 1457339083 482679 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core Wars* < 1457339084 117572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: someone suggested https://www.codingame.com/ or something of a similar name. I don't know what those stuff are like, I don't care much about htem. < 1457339085 629521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Do you know of any BF Joust-y games that are more accessible? < 1457339089 490423 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, basically < 1457339091 110947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be a good person to ask this < 1457339102 711931 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :These games are more like conventional video games that a human could play directly too. < 1457339118 988219 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457339122 158899 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "programs" are AIs for them. < 1457339129 247135 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say, a Starcraft AI hill. < 1457339134 92105 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be in that category. < 1457339165 643897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a human playing BF Joust in realtime would be interesting < 1457339170 873306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow them to hold down buttons to select a move < 1457339192 309736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] would be a single instruction that told you if you were looking at a zero cell < 1457339192 905003 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and (] would be a single instruction that told ((<(<,'"'),<(<'you'),<(,'0');_),<(<,'"'),<(<'you'),<(,'0');_) were looking at a zero cell) < 1457339203 534374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you j-bot < 1457339230 963197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ if < 1457339231 604337 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if_syntax_ < 1457339238 236761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] if < 1457339238 867027 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (and ])if < 1457339263 459624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably start off small, adding more commands along the way < 1457339271 377525 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFJoust wouldn't really count, I think. < 1457339285 185856 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since part of the metagame now is how limited programs are. < 1457339300 747936 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A human playing would effectively emulate an arbitrary length program. < 1457339303 810231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457339307 951550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH the human would have human limitations < 1457339323 144429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll program it with a very basic UI just to see how me personally does against the hill < 1457339329 770907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect I wouldn't do too well < 1457339333 733693 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games would take forever. < 1457339346 947633 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: exactly, and there are many programming games that similarly wouldn't work, eg. the ant brain one which requires you to write a program for a very limited capability ant brain, ran separately on each of your ants < 1457339362 666234 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there was a very different ant game that allowed any program < 1457339421 647222 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, taneb: accessible is what way? Using an easier to use DSL or standard programming language but still capture the flag? Or a different genre of programming game? < 1457339426 119544 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first one is ICFP contest 2004, at https://alliance.seas.upenn.edu/~plclub/cgi-bin/contest/ , the second one was at http://ai-contest.com/ but that domain is now owned by someone completely different) < 1457339455 352854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: was just relaying the question, I'm a little confused as to the meaning too < 1457339462 183014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, new hill-topper < 1457339465 798918 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, I'd prefer one that you could use Python for, and you could watch it looking pretty < 1457339466 881331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for getting me back into the sport :-) < 1457339476 248347 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well. < 1457339479 438476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is egojsout not pretty? < 1457339488 769671 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JoustExt thing I made, for obvious reasons < 1457339502 426066 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it has the disadvantage in that post people in the CS department here do not often program in brainfuck < 1457339506 944301 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any program that can be written in it is equivalent to some Brainfuck program. < 1457339511 386569 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just be arbitary length. < 1457339535 137414 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out a lot of neat tricks like how to implement effectively call/cc < 1457339541 421189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it might be an interesting experiment to allow arbitrary (i.e. not bf-limitations) programs < 1457339562 214052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear defence would not work well (you could do things like random walk clears once your timer expired) but the other tactics would still work < 1457339574 447034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your API would be forwards, backwards, up, down, and test, each of which would cost a cycle < 1457339582 355921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python has yield, which is perfect for this usecase < 1457339587 289537 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do programs have to be deterministic? < 1457339587 422971 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.programminggames.org/INJECTION.ashx / https://bitbucket.org/leeharr/pybotwar / https://github.com/sgimenez/laby are a few I've bookmarked < 1457339604 36243 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is important to decide. < 1457339615 481257 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the most popular seems to be RobotGame http://robotgame.org/ < 1457339616 85720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: in brainfuck, yes, as it has no randomization facilities < 1457339625 58924 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because otherwise, it'd be equivalent to a BFJoust variant with non-deterministic instructions. < 1457339631 709603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not BFJoust with arbitary length programs. < 1457339633 787420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other languages, I would say it helps for tournament structure if the program has to act identically each time < 1457339643 559663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/but/ I don't see any reason to ban, say, seeded RNGs < 1457339660 74573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: robotgame.org is NXDOMAIN < 1457339664 528861 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523. taneb@ RobotGame is in python and has a channel on freenode #robotgame < 1457339678 582310 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask in the channel about the domain :-( < 1457339696 840920 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ofc. < 1457339714 704093 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still equivalent to some arbitrary length BF program. < 1457339722 297073 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm. < 1457339726 601342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because of the cycle limit < 1457339731 681698 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise. < 1457339740 331605 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/arbitrary/infinite/ < 1457339750 582959 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, I'll look into it < 1457339752 27776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you allow the system access to non-TC sources of information < 1457339771 427246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like a random number generator) < 1457339781 577066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1457339794 618432 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always rewrite the cycles < 1457339799 570184 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1457339805 731128 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb, ais523: might also be robotgame.net - seems to be up and down all the time :-( < 1457339807 2335 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any time you execute a test < 1457339835 642139 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can rewrite it to [a]b, where a and b are arbitary/infinite length programs. < 1457339838 721972 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :a doesn't have to terminate < 1457339909 761443 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it's deterministic, at least. < 1457339922 598398 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it'd be BF plus a new instruction (I think) < 1457339924 22833 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like < 1457339934 577432 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :*{a}b < 1457339946 247600 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where *{} is 0 cycles, and executes a with a 50% probability? < 1457339964 711478 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be an interesting extension to test as a BFJoust version. < 1457339983 53861 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :*{a} is 1 cycle, and executes randomly 50% of the time. < 1457340073 193222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457340708 620117 :augur!~augur@216.9.110.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457341732 526972 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46506 5* 03Lymia 5* (+1548) 10Created page with "'''Lua Joust''' is a competitive programming game, equivalent to [[BF Joust]] with arbitrary length programs. Instead of using [[Brainfuck]] as the language for warriors, '''L..." < 1457341739 918025 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457341741 197905 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1457341742 858842 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant to preview < 1457341751 820471 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, let's finish this. < 1457342295 997727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457342576 649596 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm writing up a spec for BF Joust with arbitary Lua programs. < 1457342623 983751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO this should be written in a way that easily generalizes to any language (at least any language with generators, but you can do them even in C via use of pthreads) < 1457342681 936521 :augur!~augur@216.9.110.15 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457342717 988735 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457342803 814231 :augur!~augur@216.9.110.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457342868 878236 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing it for Lua for now. < 1457342880 608260 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I want to include the provisions for determinism as part of the spec. < 1457342985 662151 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, taneb: you can see a robotgame battle in action on the web archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160304042803/https://robotgame.net/ < 1457343064 428441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's hard to follow with all that many robots < 1457343124 314774 :augur!~augur@216.9.110.2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457343198 813838 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46507&oldid=46506 5* 03Lymia 5* (+4238) 10Finish specification. < 1457343242 344278 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46508&oldid=46507 5* 03Lymia 5* (+13) 10 < 1457343340 583215 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/TJFEkDa.jpg 'Selling Dy notebook' < 1457343342 509496 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dy < 1457343344 245665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it a BF derivative? < 1457343350 500729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a BF derivative derivative < 1457343353 139915 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess why Dy < 1457343359 597930 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me < 1457343363 157772 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no BF involved, but. < 1457343369 38972 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shares the tape concept. < 1457343386 251800 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notably, Lua Joust and BF Joust programs can theoretically share the same hill. < 1457343438 859879 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even theoretically. < 1457343440 462192 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :They simply can. < 1457343474 544768 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46509&oldid=46508 5* 03Ais523 5* (+173) 10cats, minor clarification < 1457343497 957068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: can I make a naming suggestion? instead of next and prev, use advance and retreat < 1457343506 274678 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. hrm. < 1457343516 38558 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that definitely works. < 1457343551 63196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they're documented as equivalent < 1457343564 782007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to change it or shall I? < 1457343608 639357 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : also they're documented as equivalent < 1457343611 732316 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1457343621 30629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy and paste error < 1457343624 857206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both increment the tape pointer < 1457343636 677761 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1457343639 899450 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me fix that < 1457343684 18628 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457343687 810931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if we want this to be accessible, it needs less computery and BF-y terminology < 1457343690 781740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an implementation < 1457343700 440519 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a draft, so. < 1457343708 938739 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good way to say "towards the opposing flag"? < 1457343723 352711 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without implying that it might turn around on the flag or past the end < 1457343764 415805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's probably best to say "forwards" and "backwards", then in the battlefield section, define that forwards is the direction from your flag to the opponent's, and backwards is the other direction < 1457343910 877434 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46510&oldid=46509 5* 03Lymia 5* (+59) 10Clarify advancing and retreating the tape pointer. < 1457343925 945326 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Lymia14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46511 5* 03Lymia 5* (+4) 10meow < 1457343965 464017 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to do a Lua implementation, maybe? < 1457343970 548891 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be relatively simple. < 1457343987 210082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how good is lua at sandboxing subsets of itself? < 1457344028 406005 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: robot game looks interesting, i'd prefer another language though < 1457344030 129361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while still gaining access to the bits it locked off < 1457344062 83081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I wrote an automatic marking script for ocaml < 1457344066 870363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits of it ran inside the sandbox < 1457344069 433375 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457344072 198266 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's decent. < 1457344080 691097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had to figure out how to write string_of_char without access to anything in the standard library < 1457344083 140878 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp in Lua 5.3 rather than 5.1 < 1457344098 429717 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementations in Lua have to worry about the string metatable and such < 1457344100 136065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took some discussion in #esoteric and #ocaml but I figured out a way in the end < 1457344102 756617 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which can be used to escape the sandbox. < 1457344124 715360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :While a C implementation can just use two separate contexts. < 1457344138 287518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for anyone wondering: «let string_of_char c = (let s = ("" ^ "x") in s.(0) <- c; s)») < 1457344149 920666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually deprecated in recent OCaml, but it still works < 1457344183 287483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why it's deprecated; it's ridiculous :-) < 1457344278 954261 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I haven't seen anything like Robotgame in other languages, but there are robot vs robot battle games in most languages < 1457344333 52925 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berrybots in Lua, Scalatron in Scala have been active recently I think. < 1457344347 274838 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46512&oldid=46510 5* 03Lymia 5* (+240) 10Add in a provision for Lua implementations. < 1457344362 486764 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :robocode for java... but who likes java anyways < 1457344391 478217 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm. < 1457344398 607287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could define some convinence functions < 1457344399 408722 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1457344405 386984 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :joust.plus(50) < 1457344414 286491 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or joust.modify(50) < 1457344499 270216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let people write their own, they're easy enough < 1457344501 297388 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe get rid of the joust. namespace < 1457344515 118801 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's for convinence for when you write out full programs on an IRC line, and such. < 1457344517 754569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a feeling Taneb wants to use this as an "intro to programming" anyway < 1457344742 669497 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46513&oldid=46512 5* 03Lymia 5* (-96) 10Remove the joust namespace. < 1457344804 203606 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46515&oldid=46513 5* 03Lymia 5* (+2) 10Rename nop() to wait() < 1457344814 440649 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably not treat this like git commits. < 1457344880 300244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a bad model < 1457344889 199707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although note that the edit summary doesn't have space for a really long discussion < 1457344894 724244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use the talk page for that < 1457344905 448477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it beats the useless summaries most people use < 1457344931 44162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main difference is that mediawiki edit summaries tend to be heavily abbreviated with a kind-of grammar of their own; complete sentences aren't wrong but they look out of place < 1457345142 485941 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to rewrite it to split the more technical details and a more "accessible" description. < 1457345212 240135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if the concept of a reduced offset timer is worth mentioning in the strategies page < 1457345233 96526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you use an inflexible timer clear with a small timer, maybe only 100, and an offset < 1457345238 670491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it runs out you give up on the offset < 1457345248 280611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that enemy programs rarely set small decoys behind large decoys < 1457345266 245194 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain further? < 1457345307 86158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is, you do a timer clear, if a cell is cleared, you move on and offset while still under the same timer < 1457345319 214202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you're clearing small decoys you don't make much of a dent in the timer, so you keep going < 1457345320 759459 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, i see. < 1457345323 231150 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So something like < 1457345330 342723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you hit a large decoy the timer runs out very quickly and you change strategy < 1457345343 69537 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>(-)*10[+{} ... ])%100 < 1457345344 579894 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1457345345 50119 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1457345350 131116 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :>(-)*10([+{} ... ])%100 < 1457345355 281449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how margins3's clear loop works against defensive programs < 1457345356 909909 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offset timer clear? < 1457345367 104747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put the offset after the ] < 1457345374 504657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere else to put it < 1457345383 244433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or before the [, it comes to much the same thing) < 1457345396 699210 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki does basically that. < 1457345410 415836 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses an inflexible timer clear with an offset beforehand. < 1457345436 445642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's a sensible enough strategy < 1457345460 850528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main improvement is that older programs used to make the timer quite high (1000 or so) and I feel that lower ones work better < 1457345471 914118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the principle that against large decoys, the best offset size is 0 or even negative (i.e. reverse offset clear) < 1457345505 52753 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do when the timer ends? < 1457345511 448754 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I quite understand now < 1457345515 56517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain clear < 1457345517 398183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. no offset < 1457345521 262100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a second timer < 1457345537 8225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly a small reverse offset clear < 1457345547 858244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you predict all the enemy decoys will be at least 20 < 1457345553 36515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do something like (+)*20[+] < 1457345564 938501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 cycles saved right there < 1457345605 328473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(regardless of polarity, assuming that there is a decoy of 20 or larger on the cell) < 1457345650 138939 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1457345650 840398 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1457345666 345181 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimize for decoys in the range of 1-a and b-128, or so? < 1457345679 151199 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not work so well for decoys between a and b? < 1457345691 331586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1457345700 489342 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1457345724 248588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this relies on the principle that people tend not to use medium decoys behind large ones < 1457345797 800569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one big general rule of BF Joust is "if there's /anything/ that programs consistently do, there's some way to exploit it" < 1457345818 517765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it took me a while to figure it out with rule of nine, I got there eventually < 1457345910 10521 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46516&oldid=46515 5* 03Lymia 5* (+890) 10Split the rules description into a detailed and "simple" section. < 1457345946 49034 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "large" and "medium" mean, in general? < 1457345980 382109 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki, for example, uses decoys of size 20 against rushes and 50 for its larger decoys, then patches up its size 20 decoys to be size ~40. < 1457346000 532777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :small = detected by the start a wiggle clear, typically 1-3; medium = within the size of an offset clear but not small; large = beyond the offset of a typicaloffset clear < 1457346024 819804 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1457346029 733204 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 50 would be considered large. < 1457346056 544783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; a few programs do use offsets that large but it's probably a bad idea < 1457346083 943636 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46517&oldid=46516 5* 03Lymia 5* (-1) 10Fix a mislocated ending tag. < 1457346093 502174 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1457346100 342486 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would an offset that big be useful < 1457346153 381158 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think this makes it less technically dense? The Lua joust page. < 1457346177 776017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: a bit < 1457346191 901202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be good to not conflate the tape pointer with the program with the warrior < 1457346222 36478 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm. < 1457346228 756383 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using "warrior" as a term for "program' < 1457346243 838961 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggestions for terminology? < 1457346256 50842 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"arena", "arena cell", "arena pointer"? < 1457346285 299666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best mental image is if the program controls the warrior, who is the pointer < 1457346324 530354 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I like the term "warrior" in that context. < 1457346328 974711 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457346409 915950 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1457346418 957718 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"competitor" instead of "warrior"? < 1457346460 160130 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :warrior == pointer, program, arena == tape? < 1457346463 524806 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what you mean? < 1457346470 960638 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ais523) < 1457346481 722937 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457346516 58156 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some other easy to understand term for "pointer" available? < 1457346527 885657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that "pointer" is a very programmy term < 1457346533 81702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, warrior=pointer, program, arena=tape < 1457346543 846850 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"warrior" is also used as another term for "program" in stuff like Core Wars, right? < 1457346549 562858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly flag=tape element (with each program owning one flag and the others being neutral) < 1457346551 32795 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd like to avoid using it for a subtly different meaning. < 1457346561 788927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I think so, but in core wars the programs are literally attacking each other's code and memory < 1457346570 841326 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "cell" is understandable enough. < 1457346575 444508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BF Joust, it's more like they're controlling an entity < 1457346588 677339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the difference is that you care about technical clarity and I care about flavour < 1457346599 28397 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "warrior" is also used in Core War. "battle program" is another term used in a few programming games < 1457346607 56699 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing it as a spec, after all. < 1457346616 223272 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unambigious between implementations. < 1457346623 816796 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a middle ground though. < 1457346647 536287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: how many programming games are like core wars in that the programs can literally alter each other? < 1457346777 551839 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at the moment I can only think of Darwin, Core War, CoreLife, CoreWar68000, CoreWar8086 and Binary Armageddon although there are probably more. < 1457346799 589062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the competitive game-of-life based games, you could, I guess < 1457346804 856934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure how popular any of those are) < 1457346817 404861 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most programming games are played by controlling an agent in an arena without any access to the opponent's code. < 1457346864 315011 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a very messy and incomplete wiki for programming games here http://programminggames.org/ < 1457346916 574152 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :While we're on the subject, did I mention there's a Core War tournament in 3 weeks? $50 first prize http://corewar.co.uk/easter2016.htm < 1457346983 933021 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46518&oldid=46517 5* 03Lymia 5* (-200) 10Rename the "tape" to the "arena". < 1457346989 52175 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :First step. < 1457347045 264636 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is arena > cell understandable? < 1457347052 361358 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457347058 835115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I linked that wiki earlier :-) < 1457347066 61330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way BF Joust is cited on the main page < 1457347069 482267 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get what you mean by using "flag" for cells though. Raising and lowering flags? < 1457347100 614374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :raising would strike me as meaning "away from zero" < 1457347106 244958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of it as "clockwise" and "anticlockwise" < 1457347111 165562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag's on a continuous rope that forms a loop < 1457347116 572721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :highest point is 128, lowest point is 0 < 1457347126 164507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and depending on which way you turn, you can take it up/down either side of the flagpole < 1457347159 560615 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1457347168 557071 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"program" controlling a "warrior' < 1457347176 894282 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that terminology would read. < 1457347196 189161 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"advance() advances the warrior forwards one cell." < 1457347202 780951 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plus() increments the cell the warrior is on." < 1457347203 902459 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1457347207 64757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1457347216 428393 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457347221 400925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "space" would work if you don't like "cell", using board game terminology < 1457347249 498420 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, using "pointer" terminology is more clear, but, it wouldn't be to someone without C/etc experience. < 1457347274 462739 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "cell" should be fine. < 1457347347 299189 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could also rename "cycle" to "turn" for board game terminology? < 1457347350 761072 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really a cycle anymore anyway < 1457347422 467468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"turn" is a good terminology < 1457347428 374015 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1457347431 44999 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about "current cell" < 1457347435 583027 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of "cell pointer" < 1457347450 204267 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"advances the current cell by one"? < 1457347455 653308 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"advances the current cell one space"? < 1457347456 343505 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a 2D version of BF Joust? Flags are in diagonally opposite corners. The agent could be a dwarf with a pick axe, chipping away at locations to decrease the cell value or depositing stone on a location to increase the cells value. If a cell's value is to different from it's neighbour, it could be a wall or chasm blocking your way. < 1457347503 122778 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457347573 360084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that sounds like you're changing the cell itself, not the poitner to it < 1457347599 911640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: presumably with this flavour it isn't wrapping, and there's some limit to how high you can increase a cell? < 1457347625 566208 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46519&oldid=46518 5* 03Lymia 5* (+711) 10Add numeric arguments to plus, minus, advance, and retreat < 1457347661 183834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think the arguments will make it much more confusing to follow the rules < 1457347676 908610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they take multiple turns < 1457347688 370656 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457347696 324573 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hold on. < 1457347741 854416 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46520&oldid=46519 5* 03Lymia 5* (-711) 10Undo revision 46519 by [[Special:Contributions/Lymia|Lymia]] ([[User talk:Lymia|talk]]) < 1457347815 584846 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46521&oldid=46520 5* 03Lymia 5* (+164) 10Clarify function numeric parameters. < 1457347861 805886 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46522&oldid=46521 5* 03Lymia 5* (+20) 10 < 1457347891 73977 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46523&oldid=46522 5* 03Lymia 5* (+1) 10 < 1457347892 758473 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1457347956 437370 :jaboja!~jaboja@emm253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457348097 571241 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this more clear? < 1457348100 958836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that seems clear enough < 1457348260 336811 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about turn > cycle? < 1457348267 539433 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cycle is both the program's turns. < 1457348338 632406 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f430:c660:b7ce:2f32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457348350 635976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that, actually < 1457348389 980549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the description of a cycle is something like "both programs are executed; when a program runs an API command that takes a turn, it is paused. Then both commands happen and the programs resume executing." < 1457348412 721143 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46524&oldid=46523 5* 03Lymia 5* (-335) 10Distinguish 'cycles' and 'turns'. < 1457348464 991294 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46525&oldid=46524 5* 03Lymia 5* (+27) 10Clarify text for test(). < 1457348506 960951 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. hrm. Should "warrior's program" be a term? < 1457348523 722375 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A warrior is the warrior and the code that controls it. < 1457348528 772106 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Conceptually) < 1457348539 274504 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that terminology would work. < 1457348636 858343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457348641 790647 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46526&oldid=46525 5* 03Lymia 5* (+46) 10:) < 1457348647 632909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457348656 843996 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : .. hrm. Should "warrior's program" be a term? < 1457348657 42083 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : A warrior is the warrior and the code that controls it. < 1457348657 175533 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Conceptually) < 1457348657 175610 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that terminology would work. < 1457348698 727974 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a warrior is the warrior? < 1457348747 612091 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457348861 641476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457348930 288280 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457348948 38553 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457348969 21588 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, pinging out enough to use second alternate nick :-( < 1457348969 155918 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea if anyone will see tihs
< 1457348972 214219 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1457348983 820941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, looks like it got through < 1457349035 947503 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1457349212 867054 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46527&oldid=46526 5* 03Lymia 5* (-49) 10Distinguish between the "program" and "warriors" < 1457349216 321835 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this works. < 1457349255 365352 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46528&oldid=46527 5* 03Lymia 5* (+0) 10Move the ''turn'' to when the term is first introduced. < 1457349430 631530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457349499 643306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457349507 949534 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46529&oldid=46528 5* 03Lymia 5* (+360) 10Introduce one character aliases. < 1457349532 3045 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46530&oldid=46529 5* 03Lymia 5* (-1) 10 < 1457349586 150820 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to implement < 1457349801 754765 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is slowly working through TIS-100 but apart from maybe one of my solutions they're all fugly :-(
< 1457349850 941642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: gah you wrote brainfuck with a captal B < 1457349854 257239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a proper noun < 1457349855 771321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes
< 1457349869 489581 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1457349876 788084 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46531&oldid=46530 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10caps < 1457349976 383041 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46532&oldid=46531 5* 03Lymia 5* (-3) 10extra word. < 1457350220 221391 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you give me some basic BFJoust programs to translate? < 1457350225 875428 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most basic examples of strategies < 1457350249 900425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: (>)*8(>[(+)*5[-]])*21 < 1457350266 311685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust basic_attack (>)*8(>[(+)*5[-]])*21 < 1457350267 30778 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.basic_attack: points -6.69, score 14.33, rank 46/47 < 1457350284 140756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt a basic defence program, it rather depends on whether you want to win or not < 1457350292 261343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I've become disconnected again, haven't I? < 1457350294 987829 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1457350298 559227 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't htink so < 1457350315 243960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see this, let me know next time I'm back online (assuming it's in the near future) so I know I don't have to resend < 1457350315 377421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457350464 569437 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457351502 771341 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457353105 273083 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46533&oldid=46532 5* 03Lymia 5* (-14) 10 < 1457353209 428088 :jaboja!~jaboja@emm253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457353263 903232 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: SOVIET CHICKEN < 1457353315 813129 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457353478 793632 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46534&oldid=46533 5* 03Lymia 5* (+71) 10Use constants for the coroutine.yield values < 1457353590 975544 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46535&oldid=46534 5* 03Lymia 5* (+38) 10 < 1457354715 546610 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457354774 436945 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://manuels.github.io/texlive.js/ neato, texlive compiled with emscripten < 1457355089 660448 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1457356166 692778 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esolang wiki ought to have a category for programming games now there are a few on there. < 1457356997 512883 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457358338 761482 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46536&oldid=46535 5* 03Lymia 5* (+92) 10 < 1457359128 967850 :jaboja!~jaboja@emm253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457359633 114375 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax (<)*-X1 < 1457359633 339679 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -32.14, score 2.98, rank 47/47 < 1457359741 953232 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax >()*xx-xx1[<<] < 1457359742 505975 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -32.14, score 2.98, rank 47/47 < 1457359758 347639 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax >-[<<] < 1457359758 480857 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457359767 784402 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax >()*- [<<] < 1457359768 148907 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -32.14, score 2.98, rank 47/47 < 1457359776 357370 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax >()*mmmm- [<<] < 1457359776 586601 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -32.14, score 2.98, rank 47/47 < 1457359779 818017 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax >() - [<<] < 1457359779 951561 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457359816 85309 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax >()*xx+xx1[<<] < 1457359816 218778 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.syntax: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457359824 19288 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi . < 1457359827 694251 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :still ded < 1457360057 810265 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457360790 327118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ded as a dornil. < 1457361053 556248 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest ()*-1< < 1457361053 689888 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457361057 214441 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test ()*-1< < 1457361057 347830 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457361062 306291 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-1< < 1457361062 592607 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.98, rank 47/47 < 1457361283 430133 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46537&oldid=46536 5* 03Lymia 5* (-2) 10 < 1457361479 489968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(<)*-X1" → "(<)*0 X1" → "". ">()*xx-xx1[<<]" → ">()*0 xx1[<<]" → ">[<<]". ">-[<<]" is just what it is. ">()*- [<<]" → ">()*0 [<<]" → ">[<<]". ">()*mmmm- [<<]" ditto. ">() - [<<]" → ">()*0 -[<<]" → ">-[<<]" (no * or % means () gets treated as ()*0). ">()*xx+xx1[<<]" → ">()*0 +xx1[<<]" → ">+[<<]" (explicit + not part of repeat count but also not "whitespace" that gets ... < 1457361485 511767 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... skipped). "()*-1<" → "<". "(.)*-1<" is again just what it looks like. < 1457361624 204134 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: are you sure that Lua Joust is deterministic? < 1457361626 485054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat inconsistently, "(.)*;4" is the same as "....", but "(.)*,4" is "". That's a bug. "," got accidentally added to the list of non-whitespace characters, even though it doesn't have any meaning. < 1457361648 592860 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, it shoul dbe. < 1457361650 318107 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be* < 1457361656 64231 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would cause it not to be? < 1457361670 59713 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, bleh < 1457361678 231082 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's ordering of hashes in arrays containing hashes. < 1457361681 431316 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: in Lua, you can iterate on the keys of a table, or get the length of a non-array table, and those aren't well-defined enough to be deterministic. I'm not sure if they are, that depends on the lua implementation. < 1457361688 794886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could remove pairs. < 1457361692 473114 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that problem'll be gone. < 1457361696 426602 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :pairs and next. < 1457361697 263647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: no, it wouldn't be < 1457361704 863303 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: even the # operator can be nondeterministic < 1457361714 621238 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain in what cases? < 1457361717 659994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: plus, removing next would limit lua SERIOUSLY < 1457361722 245803 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, make it a much less usable language < 1457361733 383660 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: read the docs for # to know < 1457361734 907473 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait < 1457361740 509842 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version of Lua is this based on exactly? < 1457361743 101805 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.3 < 1457361744 701500 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.3 < 1457361747 220403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, then it stands < 1457361759 230529 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again. < 1457361766 642933 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain what code would cause # to have nondeterministic behavior. < 1457361797 476439 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I'm not sure it has, but the manual doesn't promise that it's deterministic, just like for the next function: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/manual.html#3.4.7 < 1457361803 702266 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on tables that is (no problem on strings) < 1457361855 734828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: basically, getting the length of a table is optimized so it doesn't have to read each element of integer key < 1457361882 773406 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK < 1457361889 985846 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I read of the code, the result is undefined, yes < 1457361897 60204 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not non-deterministic. < 1457361906 452906 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty critical difference. < 1457361912 262202 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457361945 10314 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes, but unless you read the implementation, you can't tell if it's deterministic. It depends on the details of how tables work, just like the order of keys as returend by next. < 1457361966 722412 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read the implementation before for unrelated versions. < 1457361993 745526 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: in a not too old version? < 1457362056 361184 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: also, in recent versions, you have to modify the load function so that you can't load binary (precompiled) chunks < 1457362062 117882 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that can lead to breaking the lua sandbox < 1457362065 751546 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1457362067 695594 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading text chunks is fine < 1457362068 655785 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm passing "t" to load. < 1457362088 432491 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I mean, in the load function you give in the environment to the program < 1457362092 171060 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lua_Joust doesn't list this < 1457362099 812628 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1457362121 768368 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just remove load because I don't think there's a legitimate use for it. < 1457362130 357004 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: sure there is! evalling code < 1457362135 169438 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamically comptued code < 1457362141 386663 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can easily make a modified version of it < 1457362146 557485 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see that program. < 1457362171 27688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have such an obfu somewhere... we're still on #esoteric, right? < 1457362198 451946 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457362227 658706 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually I use loadstring < 1457362235 384722 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for an older version of lua < 1457362244 148317 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :btu it would have to use load in lua 5.3 < 1457362252 461525 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can still extract non-deterministic behavior out of tables even if you skip non-safe values in next/pairs < 1457362280 79461 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46538&oldid=46537 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+4) 10/* Lua Environment */ I'm pretty sure this was a typo. < 1457362309 531633 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46539&oldid=46538 5* 03Lymia 5* (+246) 10 < 1457362322 273897 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46540&oldid=46539 5* 03Lymia 5* (+1) 10 < 1457362333 610462 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PART #esoteric :"Hug~♪" < 1457362338 849493 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1457362339 870046 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1457362371 884538 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only solution I can think of is disabling next and pairs. :c < 1457362392 74773 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.3 QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1457362399 110821 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f430:c660:b7ce:2f32 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457362415 344690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: but if you do that, then what you get doesn't resemble to lua much anymore < 1457362443 715293 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also do a very slow pairs() implementation < 1457362446 519368 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sorts < 1457362463 418006 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: can't you just (a) be careful with how you prepare the tables you pass to the program, and (b) set the hash seed to a fixed deterministic value so that any table the user creates is deterministic if you know its history? < 1457362479 910889 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, the problem is allocation < 1457362488 352519 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hash of, say, {} is its memory address. < 1457362494 415665 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1457362495 152332 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1457362504 768956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be more difficult to fix, yes < 1457362540 931807 :jaboja!~jaboja@emm253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457362565 999015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: luckily for you the lua math standard library doesn't have a signbit or copysign function. The sign bits of NaN values from normal float arithmetic could depend on how you compile your code, but I think with the current lua standard library there might not be any way to extract the sign bit. < 1457362576 58367 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457362587 5046 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that'd be artitecture dependent. < 1457362591 945200 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'm just going to have to live with. < 1457362601 239426 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :No good ways out of that one. < 1457362604 871308 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: exactly, x87 has a saner rule for the sign bit than sse2 < 1457362609 435041 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sse2/sse/ < 1457362626 207890 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1457362662 544690 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1457362664 616596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :x87 and sse also differ on the mantissa of the nan, but you can't generates nans with mantissa different from the "indeterminate" nan, so that doesn't matter < 1457362673 691249 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x87 has the sane rule for them < 1457362677 490903 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The table data structure doesn't let me make the guarantees I want. < 1457362690 516301 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't think just skipping over "bad" values in next will work. < 1457362702 218995 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sign of nans is actually undefined on sse (as in the documentation says that it's undefined, which is uncharacteristic for x86) < 1457362724 790999 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: could you fix the addresses too by allocating with a memory allocator you control from a pool of a fixed address? < 1457362742 782787 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or from a pool of variable address, but modify the hash function? < 1457362748 116825 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would eliminate any possibility of a Lua implementation. < 1457362755 735758 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd have to be in C, maybe with a patched Lua. < 1457362782 112556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ok, alternately, can you determine determinism if next returns only keys of certain types? < 1457362787 692157 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how the table works < 1457362800 305473 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1457362804 306866 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's still the problem with # of course < 1457362827 43022 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hash table uses some algorithm that puts colliding elements in different slots, instead of a linked list. < 1457362827 648796 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have looked at only very few parts of the lua implementation, not the table impl. < 1457362843 854964 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So bad elements (From what it looks like) can actually cause reordering in otherwise good elements. < 1457362854 63343 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :# should be safe. < 1457362867 886278 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, wait, what if you ask a hint from #lua here on freenode? They can handle crazy technical questions about lua as far as I remember. < 1457362895 734234 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457362897 591060 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could remove next. < 1457362913 66432 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And replace pairs() with a custom deterministic ordering. < 1457362968 619545 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you say "The tostring function is modified to not reveal the address of tables, threads, functions, or userdata." -- can exception formatting use the builtin tostring, which you could detect with xpcall? < 1457362991 552225 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: also, wait, can you catch "out of memory" errors from pure lua? < 1457363025 292061 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. er. < 1457363039 610929 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1457363057 349355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being evil here < 1457363059 563623 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought of stack overflows, but. < 1457363088 258839 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1457363104 794274 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running out of stack space. < 1457363106 45837 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allowed to set metatables on tables, right? < 1457363109 601127 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1457363117 764213 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lymia: you say "The tostring function is modified to not reveal the address of tables, threads, functions, or userdata." -- can exception formatting use the builtin tostring, which you could detect with xpcall? < 1457363125 199760 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how to get that into an error message. < 1457363134 899777 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling error gets you (error object is a table value) < 1457363141 16434 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can create a table with weak values, which means you can observe the garbage collector, right? < 1457363161 595306 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And __gc too. < 1457363163 704887 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's solvable. < 1457363170 770709 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1457363174 557776 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those only matter on setmetatable() time, so. < 1457363179 221759 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just remove those values from the table. < 1457363198 339360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you add __gc or __mode to the metatable after you setmetatable, they don't do anything. < 1457363262 503765 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: what if __mode was already there but you modify it later? < 1457363318 97860 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: also, does the __mode of the metatable get possibly re-examined at the next garbage collection cycle? < 1457363362 451544 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mentioned that. < 1457363378 671221 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on < 1457363394 180861 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that if you set a metatable without a __gc field and later create that field in the metatable, the object will not be marked for finalization." < 1457363423 268013 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is not guarenteed for __mode in the secp. < 1457363424 383094 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec* < 1457363425 520401 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I think what you said about __mode is for older versions of lua < 1457363427 864852 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, AFAIK, it still holds. < 1457363460 577457 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I don't think so < 1457363503 537490 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. __mode was changed, yeah. < 1457363510 558607 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snicker* < 1457363523 318662 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of like lua for things like this, but good luck if you fix all this < 1457363594 370499 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1457363595 721959 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's do this < 1457363604 79334 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disable garbage collection while running the programs. < 1457363609 368511 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And run a cycle manually afterwards. < 1457363705 532229 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eliminate GC non-determinism. < 1457363796 63702 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1457363807 19297 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you won't re-create the lua interpreter between runs? < 1457363818 810037 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation is in Lua. < 1457363831 106945 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is a solution. < 1457363831 508607 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you would, but it might not be necessary, if you recreate all of the environment (including the math table and stuff) < 1457363838 847933 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1457363840 978872 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457363856 820948 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :pairs() is the only real nasty problem. < 1457363861 361927 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also have to recreate the metatable of strings, and stuff like that < 1457363876 795010 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :getmetatable and setmetatable are patched to only set metatables on tables. < 1457363883 403037 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll just remove them since __mode is an issue. < 1457363894 954099 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1457363900 868852 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you remove them entirely? < 1457363906 452778 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might. < 1457363923 788167 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think about that. < 1457363936 631032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some way to access the metatable of strings without getmetatable? < 1457364053 355091 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1457364064 347111 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :getfenv used to be a problem < 1457364066 517880 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not anymore. < 1457364071 632427 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? metatable < 1457364090 285580 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :metatable? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457364111 607547 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ok, well good luck, and ask #lua < 1457364249 840392 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other answer is to drop nondeterminism. < 1457364254 293858 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And allow random behavior. < 1457364450 248187 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46541&oldid=46540 5* 03Lymia 5* (+131) 10/* Detailed Rules */ < 1457364644 865818 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 but that's at least partly because I do most of my work in bed <-- i believe that doing ordinary activities in bed is considered bad for sleep hth < 1457364644 999390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457364658 807503 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457364662 113179 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different project. < 1457364668 43825 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloerjan < 1457364680 657047 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tafterneb < 1457364683 616366 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the best way to detect "potato" programs. < 1457364697 114378 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :In BFJoust which are terrible and unlikely to be useful. < 1457364711 807202 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :check for initial < hth < 1457364717 463355 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to run a large hill of >10000 programs < 1457364739 565687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I take the raw scores from that and figure out which programs are potato. < 1457364769 835613 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: recursively eliminate the programs with zero wins? < 1457364780 278521 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457364785 865815 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd indeed cull the worst of the worst. < 1457364792 701024 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not the "maybe OK" programs. < 1457364808 668717 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like. < 1457364817 379977 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1027 < 1457364818 225122 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ends as soon as you find a program where A beats B and B beats A < 1457364822 186589 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1027: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1457364825 639420 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't actually have to do if they're any good or not. < 1457364828 430533 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whether a program does well depends on the other programs on the hill < 1457364855 505530 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oolist < 1457364897 328918 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: how would you run a hill of 10000 programs? that would mean 10000**2 matches! you'd need a powerful set of computers for that, even if you write really optimized joust backends. < 1457364930 877202 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457364935 769100 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time < 1457364936 772077 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots o fit < 1457364938 195764 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :of it* < 1457364952 335928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... um... < 1457365014 727074 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume! < 1457365045 255346 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1457365050 159287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what < 1457365088 819038 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hack into a supercomputer hth < 1457365108 986011 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457365109 119457 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should only take about 80 years. < 1457365178 669261 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's < 1457365191 119596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, he doesn't even mention that Banjo is freaking chaotic and could easily have voted the wrong way? < 1457365196 815032 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a hundred million matchups < 1457365201 653796 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't too terrible. < 1457365208 213143 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as "computable things" goes. < 1457365212 731839 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn It's written with an apostrophe. < 1457365220 95496 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'it'': It's written with an apostrophe. < 1457365233 348818 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A week at worst, most likely. < 1457365319 596272 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 100 * 100 * 42 < 1457365320 985747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 420000 < 1457365338 342992 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 100 * 100 * 42 * 100000 -- :: Cycles < 1457365339 792564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42000000000 < 1457365352 333584 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457365384 153150 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: assuming 1000 cycles a second, worst case that'll take 16 months < 1457365446 853503 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 50 * 99 * 42 * 100000 -- :: Cycles, removing trivial matchups < 1457365448 288223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20790000000 < 1457365463 522791 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still 240 days < 1457365484 255484 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 cycles a second? < 1457365499 144616 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you running it on a Pentium III? < 1457365519 441658 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I have no instinct for how fast a cycle should be < 1457365541 973596 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1203.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457365550 753380 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a 8086? That might get the 1000 cycles/s < 1457365556 707058 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's orders of magnitude off. < 1457365560 578647 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then < 1457365569 984946 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in luck that I don't decide how fast things go < 1457365675 87469 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say very conservatively maybe 1 million cycles a second. < 1457365682 315144 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1457366276 360535 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, basically. If you estimate 1000 cycle/s < 1457366327 456546 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're guessing 2 million processor cycles per BFJoust cycle at 2 GhZ. For one core. < 1457366467 853996 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am way off < 1457366695 371086 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm measuring 0.019s per core for a full round of (.)*-1 vs (.)*-1 < 1457366724 578837 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which implies maybe 50 full rounds per second worst case < 1457366782 76055 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving 23 days. But that's if every match takes the full 100000 cycles. < 1457366810 461816 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, around a week or so given 4 cores. < 1457366862 267762 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not worried. < 1457366882 333215 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz JOIN :#esoteric < 1457366971 519779 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457367010 479359 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1457367048 95432 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came second in a Brainfuck competition! < 1457367108 48582 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_46bit: are you from york < 1457367120 132360 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1457367129 549005 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb here also participated < 1457367132 653197 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1457367146 89455 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we know each other < 1457367156 191127 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb actually earned their prize < 1457367164 163770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: IIRC, it takes on the order of a few seconds (less than three, I think) to run through the 1081 pairings zemhill's 47-program hill has. Assuming it was 2 seconds, and extrapolating to 10000 (so a factor of (10000*9999)/(47*46)), that'd be about ~100k CPU-seconds. That's barely over a day, and that's single-threaded. < 1457367173 876451 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did something like FizzBuzz < 1457367179 135197 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then nobody else entered < 1457367180 993757 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I won < 1457367184 566822 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>+++<<<-]>-.>+.-.<++++.>++++.<------.>++.+.---------.<.>++++++++.<++++++++.++++++.-.>-.<<. < 1457367184 726553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : congratulations < 1457367186 208798 :_46bit!~fortysix@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( :-) < 1457367188 96418 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats to both of you < 1457367198 233396 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>+++<<<-]>-.>+.-.<++++.>++++.<------.>++.+.---------.<.>++++++++.<++++++++.++++++.-.>-.>. < 1457367198 366953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : congratulations < 1457367214 511763 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1457367217 418227 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>+++<<<-]>-.>+.-.<++++.>++++.<------.>++.+.---------.<.>++++++++.<++++++++.++++++.-.>-.>+++. < 1457367217 551641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : congratulations! < 1457367219 238701 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice < 1457367220 572357 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid. < 1457367235 867029 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only actually have 5297 programs. < 1457367237 983502 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So cut that by 1/4 < 1457367276 772869 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457367287 919697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also from an old hill -- "Simulated a total of 378501202 cycles in 45402 individual jousts for 1081 duels." That gives an average of 8337 cycles/[whatever term you want to use]. < 1457367359 790804 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :11470 distinct programs, but. < 1457367369 738180 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my canonicalization is good. < 1457367377 545859 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 5297 in effect < 1457367504 872894 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well < 1457367505 563099 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1457367510 527028 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely have canonicalization errors < 1457367651 596479 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457367695 487531 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed. < 1457367729 110481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's an actual number. < 1457367730 738650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2014-09-22 19:53:50 ais523: gearlanced can run the entire hill (all 1081 program pairs) in 1.7 seconds on this system. < 1457367749 731794 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what I get for using regex. < 1457367757 15788 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's torquelance? < 1457367780 820179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of the fancy variants have really been worth it, IIRC. < 1457367795 748255 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did measure a 2x speedup from it < 1457367802 541556 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a simple case < 1457367841 922104 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1203.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457367849 329144 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, urgh protobuf < 1457367861 246779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I kind of got carried away. < 1457367880 43716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only for the visualization statistics, I think. < 1457367903 936488 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my runtime in the version gathering phase < 1457367907 923197 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is from hg < 1457367919 109687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess it's for everything now. Sorry about that. < 1457367919 891819 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing is slow < 1457367935 176129 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably honestly speed it up using git-hg < 1457367937 561043 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try that < 1457367955 812085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the "ascii-based" protocol it had wasn't exactly pleasant either. < 1457368025 801240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, using gearlanced to run a hill is quite a bit faster than calling gearlance individually for each pair. < 1457368093 168225 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can has a torquelanced? :P < 1457368101 59097 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :iunno < 1457368106 492010 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should benchmark it for real sometime < 1457368110 839558 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see if that stuff is actually worth it < 1457368159 564410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think wrenchlance worked better than torquelance in my own tests, but I haven't really been very rigorous about this. < 1457368204 36068 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrenchlance invokes gcc < 1457368208 15481 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but only once per pair < 1457368217 709531 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1457368219 139367 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :program* < 1457368248 787510 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably put together a torquelanced though < 1457368254 284064 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrenchlance seems more resistant to taht < 1457368294 668972 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even a torquelanced < 1457368330 148034 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :torquelance_multiple right_B right_B2 program1A program2A program3A program4A... < 1457368360 185570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, that's interesting. In a straight-forward "run the thing for each pair individually", http://sprunge.us/JHOS -- more elapsed-time but less user-time. < 1457368463 340574 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1457368471 734123 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could it be from your shell script < 1457368599 930699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. These aren't really meant for benchmarking at all, it's part of the regression-testing thing. < 1457368606 65975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just stuck a "time" there for funsies. < 1457368611 670105 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457368637 193086 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457369063 996991 :jaboja!~jaboja@emm253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457369309 894513 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1457369319 749332 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could make do with a specialized program based off torquelance? < 1457369337 79310 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reads BFJoust programs from stdin, compiles and does a full tournament on them in-memory < 1457369674 302336 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 mad: as I said, this is how quantum bogosort "works" <-- btw i think such things are not really believed possible; they're basically incompatible with the principle of unitary evolution - they require postselection, a feature which quantum mechanics does _not_ seem to support. < 1457369674 707188 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457369699 66329 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457369791 702942 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 That is, you can set up an experiment in which two paths (with indistinguishible results) cancel each other, but you cannot do that from inside that paths themselves, and there must always remain possible paths. < 1457369791 836351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457369854 705074 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 (because unitary evolution means the total probability of all remaining options does not change.) < 1457369854 838402 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457370026 38814 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457370340 118665 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457371072 105026 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so. Something more difficult < 1457371086 66981 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I do if I want full stats for 10000 v 10000 < 1457371247 576919 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest http://google.com < 1457371247 710462 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457371252 538755 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest google http://google.com < 1457371252 770152 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457371268 12615 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1457371277 293996 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible things: html+bfjoust polygot < 1457371282 903282 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well. < 1457371285 125784 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible, but... < 1457371292 686413 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only for one bfjoust program. < 1457371443 811524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that depends on how exactly you interpret HTML < 1457371475 784903 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you interpret HTML using a brainfuck interpreter.... < 1457371566 85057 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : or < 1457373714 784110 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1457373728 694932 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1457373732 410496 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(many brainfuck interpreters won't care, of course... and after the next > you'll be in safe territory again) < 1457373749 316131 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Client Quit < 1457373750 721920 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's a cool one... < 1457373776 453360 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ps | grep lance < 1457373776 996856 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ \ Signal 18 (CONT) caught by ps (procps version 3.2.8). \ Please send bug reports to or < 1457373790 600950 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so apparently it does that every time :/ < 1457373796 469831 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1457373823 870415 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's !sh anyway < 1457373889 844641 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pstree | grep lance < 1457373890 522773 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​| | | `-report---gearlance] \ | | | `-report---gearlance] < 1457373910 753300 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you kill it? < 1457373918 479460 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try killall -9 report < 1457373957 165146 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh grep lance /proc/*/cmdline < 1457373957 970099 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary file /proc/12604/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/12663/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/12728/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/13455/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/13547/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/13728/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/13988/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/14438/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/14988/cmdline matches \ Binary file /proc/15555/cmdline matches < 1457374003 79880 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure how much he can break there
< 1457374005 548090 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh whoami < 1457374006 223472 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/whoami: cannot find name for user ID 1546733 < 1457374019 857116 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pstree -u | grep lance < 1457374020 576758 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​| | | `-report---gearlance] \ | | | `-report---gearlance] < 1457374054 324066 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pstree -u | grep report < 1457374054 984615 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​| | | `-report---gearlance] \ | | | `-report---gearlance] < 1457374061 791393 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh killall report < 1457374062 400094 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :report(995): Operation not permitted \ report(12604): Operation not permitted \ report(12663): Operation not permitted \ report(12728): Operation not permitted \ report(13455): Operation not permitted \ report(13547): Operation not permitted \ report(13728): Operation not permitted \ report(13988): Operation not permitted \ report(14438): Operation not permitted \ report(14988): Operation not permitted \ report(15555): < 1457374067 15276 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, nothing :) < 1457374073 278770 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish that'd work. < 1457374075 426990 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pstree -u | grep report < 1457374076 175943 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​| | | `-report---gearlance] \ | | | `-report---gearlance] < 1457374080 127986 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs doing. < 1457374088 274421 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pstree -p | grep report < 1457374088 925198 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​| | | `-report(995)---gearlance(31444) \ | | | `-report(12604)---gearlance(3138+ \ | | | `-report(12663)---gearlance(3138+ \ | < 1457374090 594154 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check /tmp for goodies < 1457374145 705932 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457374173 613731 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh du -s /tmp 2>/dev/null < 1457374174 236641 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :4./tmp < 1457374199 250799 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's overflows and/or 'fun' to be had with gearlance. < 1457374211 158783 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably? < 1457374218 848080 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can get it to run code as the same user as report. < 1457374222 722843 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And killit < 1457374269 696735 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Well, zhillcrank.rb takes 4.121s of elapsed time to crank full statistics for the 47-program hill, so computationally speaking that doesn't sound like a problem. Though you'd probably need to adjust it to do some batching. The stat file for 47 programs is 8147534 and I would assume it to be approximately linear in the number of pairs. Extrapolating to 10k programs, that'd mean ... < 1457374275 734527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 376814026207 bytes ~ 350 GB, which might not fit in RAM on many systems. (Especially since the in-memory representation probably has more overhead.) < 1457374298 644820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/8147534/8147534 bytes/ < 1457374336 745274 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need gearlance, right? < 1457374338 781855 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For stats < 1457374344 163458 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fancy lances. < 1457374352 317744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1457374357 43816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not that slow. < 1457374375 534017 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also like to modify it to generate .svg files instead of .png < 1457374381 14521 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :To save on storage spce. < 1457374382 149860 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :space* < 1457374411 448204 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I tried 100x100 I remember problems with it using lots of space on disk. < 1457374413 324341 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean running the old-style egostats? That would be entirely impossible. < 1457374414 490494 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The final output < 1457374488 905116 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1457374586 817765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because those scripts manage to use multiple gigabytes of memory to even run for the 47x47 case. < 1457374597 344226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you just wanted the raw data. < 1457374653 628504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To do something with, I don't know what.) < 1457374689 424236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many (most?) of the plots also wouldn't really work for 10k programs. < 1457375158 508749 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh awk '{ print $22 }' /proc/{995,self}/stat < 1457375159 83223 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :717423685 \ 721318974 < 1457375186 125514 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (721318974 - 717423685) / 100 / 3600 < 1457375187 748770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.820247222222221 < 1457375212 253642 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's how long ago (in hours) that thing was started < 1457375269 185271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I vaguely recall a discussion on how EgoBot's copy of gearlance predates the fix for empty loops. < 1457375287 806065 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that the ()*-1 stuff? < 1457375321 795817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, yes. < 1457375330 751784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some more complex forms. < 1457375346 443252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like nested ones.) < 1457375513 983288 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, there's a !bfjoust command at 8:36, which fits my calculation < 1457375824 245198 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh grep -l report /proc/[1-9]*/stat | xargs awk 'p { print (s - $22)/100, "seconds ago" } !p { p = 1; s = $22; }' /proc/self/stat | date -f- < 1457375825 22807 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/grep: /proc/9303/stat: No such file or directory \ Sun Mar 6 23:57:45 UTC 2016 \ Sun Mar 6 23:57:56 UTC 2016 \ Sun Mar 6 23:58:03 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:00:19 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:00:27 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:00:51 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:01:20 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:02:13 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:02:58 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 00:03:46 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 07:12:11 UTC 2016 \ Mon Mar 7 14:10:24 UTC < 1457375829 891873 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so, better question. < 1457375837 208250 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :zhillcrank outputs this, right: http://zem.fi/bfjoust/vis/cycles/ < 1457375853 79033 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you expect this UI to hold up to 10000 x 10000 warriors < 1457375953 225316 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:56:23 !bfjoust pause ()*-1 00:56:26 ​Score for b_jonas_pause: 6.1 ... hmmmmm. < 1457376033 863283 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh date < 1457376034 323165 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mon Mar 7 18:40:34 UTC 2016 < 1457376051 784556 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust live . < 1457376074 340017 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's the one: 00:57:44 !bfjoust pause ((({})*999999)*9999999)*999999 < 1457376095 557920 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been broken since. < 1457376161 603742 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? b_jonas < 1457376169 623647 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. < 1457376178 387424 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1457376185 308574 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it say that he's a bad person? < 1457376285 926277 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh grep -l report /proc/[1-9]*/stat | xargs awk 'p { print (s - $22)/100, "seconds ago" } !p { p = 1; s = $22; }' /proc/self/stat | date -f- +%d-%H:%M:%S < 1457376286 848215 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/grep: /proc/15886/stat: No such file or directory \ 07-18:40:52 \ 06-23:57:45 \ 06-23:57:56 \ 06-23:58:03 \ 07-00:00:19 \ 07-00:00:27 \ 07-00:00:51 \ 07-00:01:20 \ 07-00:02:13 \ 07-00:02:59 \ 07-00:03:46 \ 07-07:12:11 \ 07-14:10:25 \ 07-07:36:46 < 1457376334 493045 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh grep -l report /proc/[1-9]*/stat 2>/dev/null | xargs awk 'p { print (s - $22)/100, "seconds ago" } !p { p = 1; s = $22; }' /proc/self/stat | date -f- +%d-%H:%M:%S | sort | xargs < 1457376335 532293 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :06-23:57:45 06-23:57:56 06-23:58:03 07-00:00:19 07-00:00:27 07-00:00:51 07-00:01:20 07-00:02:14 07-00:02:59 07-00:03:46 07-07:12:11 07-07:36:46 07-14:10:25 07-18:40:52 < 1457376547 759534 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these are the start times of the various report processes; presumably they all hang waiting on a gearlance process that's merrily consuming CPU cycles) < 1457376577 807947 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the output is UTC < 1457376625 870866 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :h,, < 1457376627 363661 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1457376629 852741 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check their pid < 1457376655 296152 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :995 is the first one (see above) < 1457376665 323247 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1457376666 808810 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not pid, uid < 1457376809 604627 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1457376827 880448 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -la /proc/995/stat < 1457376828 431649 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: /proc/995/stat: Function not implemented \ -r--r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Mar 7 14:10 /proc/995/stat < 1457376829 335375 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1457376842 815569 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh id < 1457376843 295142 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=1236523 gid=1236523 < 1457376847 463113 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh id < 1457376847 994654 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=1332109 gid=1332109 < 1457376854 580892 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is it 100% random? < 1457376867 94896 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be fun if it randomly happens to be 5000 < 1457376877 459894 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname -a? :P < 1457376885 444067 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh uname -a < 1457376885 922175 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux codu.org 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1457376891 743824 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you do that yourself? < 1457376901 343905 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh test < 1457376901 703241 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457376906 658257 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh test < 1457376907 66902 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457376907 355993 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1457376918 113120 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.2.0 is old isn't it < 1457376940 842579 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it fixes the keyrings exploit < 1457376940 996268 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls /boot < 1457376963 758657 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /boot < 1457376964 312700 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access /boot: No such file or directory < 1457376969 886961 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls / < 1457376970 314368 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1457377040 350977 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh find / -perm -4000 < 1457377040 882715 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/find: `/': Function not implemented < 1457377047 722124 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1457377049 398098 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh find / -perm 4000 < 1457377049 849029 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/find: `/': Function not implemented < 1457377054 47724 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox find / -perm 4000 < 1457377075 486082 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :find: /proc/tty/driver: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/task/1/fd: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/task/1/fdinfo: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/task/1/ns: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/fd: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/fdinfo: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/ns: Input/output error \ find: /proc/2/task/2/fd: Input/output error \ find: /proc/2/task/2/fdinfo: Input/output error \ find: /proc/2/task/2/ns: < 1457377080 588740 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox find / -perm 4000 | paste < 1457377097 783078 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :find: /proc/tty/driver: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/task/1/fd: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/task/1/fdinfo: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/task/1/ns: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/fd: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/fdinfo: Input/output error \ find: /proc/1/ns: Input/output error \ find: /proc/2/task/2/fd: Input/output error \ find: /proc/2/task/2/fdinfo: Input/output error \ find: /proc/2/task/2/ns: < 1457377104 34768 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox find / -perm 4000 2>/dev/null < 1457377120 368374 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457377285 372227 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps ax < 1457377286 86680 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID USER COMMAND \ 1 0 /lib/systemd/systemd --system --deserialize 17 \ 2 0 [kthreadd] \ 3 0 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 5 0 [kworker/u:0] \ 6 0 [migration/0] \ 7 0 [watchdog/0] \ 8 0 [migration/1] \ 10 0 [ksoftirqd/1] \ 11 0 [watchdog/1] \ 12 0 [cpuset] \ 13 0 [khelper] \ 14 0 [kdevtmpfs] \ 15 0 < 1457377316 68515 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ldd `which find` < 1457377316 931734 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: exited with unknown exit code (139) < 1457377323 526603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ldd `which find` < 1457377324 247156 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: applet not found < 1457377346 461707 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh LD_PRELOAD=/lib/libc.so.6 ldd `which find` < 1457377346 997132 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: /usr/bin/ldd: No such file or directory < 1457377359 714528 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh LD_PRELOAD=/lib/libc.so.6 LD_LIBRARY_PATH="" ldd `which find` < 1457377360 334720 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: /usr/bin/ldd: No such file or directory < 1457377368 796619 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin/ldd < 1457377369 249225 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/ldd < 1457377373 293072 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -alh /usr/bin/ldd < 1457377373 783629 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: /usr/bin/ldd: Function not implemented \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 5.8K Aug 16 2009 /usr/bin/ldd < 1457377381 490483 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls -alh /usr/bin/ldd < 1457377381 972778 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 5.7K Aug 16 2009 /usr/bin/ldd < 1457377392 42300 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox cp /usr/bin/ldd /tmp/ldd < 1457377392 447446 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457377399 844910 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh LD_PRELOAD=/lib/libc.so.6 LD_LIBRARY_PATH="" /tmp/ldd `which find` < 1457377400 509807 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.32686: line 1: /tmp/ldd: No such file or directory < 1457377406 637048 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh /tmp/ldd `which find` < 1457377407 160403 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.358: line 1: /tmp/ldd: No such file or directory < 1457377413 517033 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /tmp < 1457377413 961074 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.504 < 1457377423 938104 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /tmp < 1457377424 474951 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.693 < 1457377430 987113 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls -alh /tmp < 1457377431 427430 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 21 Mar 7 19:03 input.837 < 1457377436 193609 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls -alh / < 1457377436 738979 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4.0K Oct 12 2011 bin \ drwxrwxrwx 0 0 0 0 Jan 1 1970 dev \ drwxrwxrwx 0 0 0 0 Jan 1 1970 etc \ drwxrwxrwx 0 0 0 0 Jan 1 1970 home \ drwxr-xr-x 11 0 0 8.0K Dec 31 2011 lib \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 4 Jan 1 1970 lib64 -> /lib \ drwxrwxrwx 0 0 0 0 < 1457377437 940467 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1457377440 105620 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mount namespaces? < 1457377445 711688 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox mount < 1457377446 221514 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) \ proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) \ udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=10240k,nr_inodes=477568,mode=755) \ devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000) \ tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=771108k,mode=755) \ /dev/xvda1 on / type ext3 < 1457377453 573687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox mount | grep tmp < 1457377454 75303 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=10240k,nr_inodes=477568,mode=755) \ tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=771108k,mode=755) \ tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) \ tmpfs on /run/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=5120k) \ tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755) \ tmpfs on /run/user/0 type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=385556k,mode=700) < 1457377461 71060 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox mount | grep /tmp < 1457377461 550525 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457377465 438949 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox mount | grep / < 1457377465 992131 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) \ proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) \ udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=10240k,nr_inodes=477568,mode=755) \ devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000) \ tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=771108k,mode=755) \ /dev/xvda1 on / type ext3 < 1457377515 254559 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /run < 1457377515 729464 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: /run: No such file or directory < 1457377520 207219 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls / < 1457377520 570876 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1457377533 920117 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mount namespaces, definitely. < 1457377539 331502 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /home < 1457377539 717402 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot < 1457377541 306742 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /home/egobot < 1457377541 770790 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot.hg < 1457377545 658454 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /home/egobot/egobot.hg < 1457377546 57560 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot_cmds < 1457377553 641439 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1457377554 89273 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps \ lib \ slox < 1457377560 120149 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls -alh /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1457377560 967922 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :drwxr-xr-x 39 5000 5000 4.0K Feb 20 2011 interps \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4.0K May 31 2012 lib \ drwxrwxrwx 0 0 0 0 Jan 1 1970 slox < 1457377572 882808 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /dev/shm < 1457377573 329883 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access /dev/shm: No such file or directory < 1457377575 592142 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /dev/ < 1457377576 64547 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :null < 1457377602 762091 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know about HackEgo sandboxing, I don't know if/how similar EgoBot is. < 1457377605 26446 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox --help < 1457377605 527581 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :BusyBox v1.14.2 (Debian 1:1.14.2-2) multi-call binary \ Copyright (C) 1998-2008 Erik Andersen, Rob Landley, Denys Vlasenko \ and others. Licensed under GPLv2. \ See source distribution for full notice. \ \ Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]... \ or: function [arguments]... \ \.BusyBox is a multi-call binary that combines many common Unix \..utilities into a single executable. Most people will create < 1457377613 289308 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ldd `which busybox` < 1457377613 920104 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd: exited with unknown exit code (139) < 1457377626 933435 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like there's something weird going on with the libc < 1457377633 503584 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox is usually static, so. < 1457377642 271638 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? < 1457377642 442187 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm... no. < 1457377656 882979 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get revenge some day. < 1457377694 888823 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh (sleep 100) & < 1457377700 185679 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh id ; (sleep 100) & < 1457377711 321250 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps axu | grep sh < 1457377711 912308 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :115 0 [flush-202:0] \ 941 5000 /bin/bash PRIVMSG/tr_21.cmd PRIVMSG #esoteric !bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] \ 953 0 /usr/sbin/sshd -D \ 967 5000 /bin/bash scmds/bfjoust bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] PRIVMSG #esoteric !bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] \ 990 5000 /bin/bash scmds/bfjoust bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever < 1457377767 677350 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps axu | grep gearlance < 1457377768 402323 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :995 5000 ../report ../gearlance ../cache Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust Deewiant_pendolino.bfjoust Fiora_timestopping-mahou-shoujo.bfjoust Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust Lymia_aurora.bfjoust Lymia_flow.bfjoust Lymia_nyuroki.bfjoust Lymia_two_people_runn \ 6587 5000 /bin/bash PRIVMSG/tr_21.cmd PRIVMSG #esoteric !sh busybox ps axu | grep gearlance \ 6604 5000 /bin/bash PRIVMSG/tr_21.cmd < 1457377817 737100 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox wget https://api.ipify.org?format=json - < 1457377818 134472 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget: not an http or ftp url: https://api.ipify.org?format=json < 1457377822 367955 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox wget http://api.ipify.org?format=json - < 1457377822 862953 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget: bad address 'api.ipify.org' < 1457377829 620684 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox wget http://api.ipify.org/?format=json - < 1457377830 66502 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget: bad address 'api.ipify.org' < 1457377856 826984 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox wget http://23.21.54.217/?format=json - < 1457377857 418308 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connecting to 23.21.54.217 (23.21.54.217:80) \ wget: cannot connect to remote host (23.21.54.217): Connection refused < 1457377872 372623 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ifconfig < 1457377872 938228 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr AA:00:00:3E:AD:41 \ inet addr:64.62.173.65 Bcast:64.62.173.127 Mask:255.255.255.128 \ inet6 addr: fe80::a800:ff:fe3e:ad41/64 Scope:Link \ UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 \ RX packets:16546593 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 \ TX packets:14196923 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 \ collisions:0 < 1457377897 462605 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ifconfig | grep Link < 1457377897 954537 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr AA:00:00:3E:AD:41 \ inet6 addr: fe80::a800:ff:fe3e:ad41/64 Scope:Link \ lo Link encap:Local Loopback < 1457377918 136249 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox wget http://127.0.0.1/ - < 1457377918 630012 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connecting to 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1:80) \ wget: can't open 'index.html': Permission denied < 1457377929 641433 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox curl http://127.0.0.1/ < 1457377930 63821 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl: applet not found < 1457377965 991377 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox curl http://127.0.0.1/ -O - < 1457377966 416642 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl: applet not found < 1457377970 77720 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox get http://127.0.0.1/ -O - < 1457377970 500764 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :get: applet not found < 1457377972 10763 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox wget http://127.0.0.1/ -O - < 1457377972 549787 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connecting to 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1:80) \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ /dev/null < 1457378447 887805 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1457378458 166348 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1457378458 299015 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. < 1457378458 432412 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1457378494 970666 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh which gcc < 1457378495 353409 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/gcc < 1457378505 207754 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fetch < 1457378541 333648 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: oh well, at least you can access files inside the hackego environment that way < 1457378545 124518 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch < 1457378548 446974 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://: Invalid host name. < 1457378583 369736 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh uname --kernel-release < 1457378583 857399 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.2.0-4-amd64 < 1457378599 248602 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox uname --kernel-release < 1457378599 851841 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.2.0-4-amd64 < 1457378606 18293 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://lpaste.net/raw/2845173683343851520 < 1457378609 548243 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2016-03-07 19:23:06 URL:http://lpaste.net/raw/2845173683343851520 [26] -> "2845173683343851520" [1] < 1457378627 445624 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox uname --operating-system < 1457378627 910916 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/Linux < 1457378629 758888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pooch < 1457378634 568934 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh wget http://127.0.0.1/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/2845173683343851520 -O - 2>/dev/null < 1457378635 457338 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing something or other < 1457378644 113593 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm 2845173683343851520 < 1457378648 231463 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457378653 846205 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox uname --kernel-version < 1457378654 335783 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#1 SMP Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 < 1457378662 192371 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. < 1457378676 816333 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps ax | grep apache < 1457378677 672074 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2746 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 2763 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3089 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3096 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3097 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3497 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 8357 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 13355 0 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 15913 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 18503 1000 < 1457378689 425720 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this Usermode Linux? < 1457378696 499832 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it is, why are there all these priviledged processes here < 1457378699 135680 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname -a < 1457378700 102819 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1457378701 185710 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps axu | grep apache < 1457378701 887652 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2746 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 2763 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3089 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3096 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3097 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 3497 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 8357 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 13355 0 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 15913 1000 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start \ 18503 1000 < 1457378713 371746 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be < 1457378747 383350 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname --kernel-release < 1457378748 154345 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.13.0-umlbox < 1457378782 704664 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname --kernel-version < 1457378783 316846 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 < 1457378804 548857 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo -e "\n\1" < 1457378804 951225 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ \1 < 1457378811 360436 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo -e '\n\1' < 1457378811 779570 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ \1 < 1457378829 217394 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo -e '\n\01' < 1457378829 584984 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ . < 1457378841 422853 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1457378841 556134 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. < 1457378841 689344 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1457378862 297490 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help ne < 1457378862 487191 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for ne! < 1457378876 263052 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1457378876 481226 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for _! < 1457379086 623087 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457379154 892256 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh top b < 1457379155 766771 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :top - 19:32:35 up 83 days, 12:46, 0 users, load average: 14.34, 14.16, 14.09 \ Tasks: 241 total, 16 running, 225 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie \ Cpu(s): 0.6%us, 0.2%sy, 1.0%ni, 95.6%id, 2.6%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st \ Mem: 3855536k total, 3533808k used, 321728k free, 576588k buffers \ Swap: 0k total, 0k used, 0k free, 2309552k cached \ \ PID USER PR NI VIRT RES < 1457379185 791622 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo, 95.6% idle, so it's probably not stuck on CPU < 1457379195 548023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's waiting for an external bfjoust server < 1457379232 925586 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why other commands work, only bfjoust doesn't work < 1457379331 527141 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!say a < 1457379499 60511 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help "a b c" < 1457379499 304498 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for _a_b_c_! < 1457379504 954700 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help a b c < 1457379505 210737 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for a_b_c! < 1457379546 639352 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!.empty < 1457379553 974918 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /home/egobot < 1457379554 483107 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot.hg < 1457379557 703766 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /home/egobot/egobot.hg < 1457379558 141640 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot_cmds < 1457379562 449842 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1457379562 894530 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps \ lib \ slox < 1457379569 892351 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -alh /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1457379570 514627 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds: Function not implemented \ /bin/ls: /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds/interps: Function not implemented \ /bin/ls: /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib: Function not implemented \ /bin/ls: /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds/slox: Function not implemented \ total 8.0K \ drwxr-xr-x 39 5000 5000 4.0K Feb 20 2011 interps \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4.0K May 31 2012 < 1457379574 765260 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busbox ls -alh /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1457379575 220895 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.1761: line 1: busbox: command not found < 1457379579 590578 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls -alh /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1457379580 87445 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :drwxr-xr-x 39 5000 5000 4.0K Feb 20 2011 interps \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4.0K May 31 2012 lib \ drwxrwxrwx 0 0 0 0 Jan 1 1970 slox < 1457379638 500478 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help () { :;}; echo vulnerable < 1457379638 739932 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for __________echo_vulnerable! < 1457379646 53296 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh bash --version < 1457379646 541348 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 4.0.28(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later \ \ This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. < 1457379715 157814 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1203.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457379733 780645 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test" < 1457379734 231310 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :vulnerable \ this is a test < 1457379835 533613 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was this system last updated < 1457379887 792631 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it's possible that only the bash _inside_ the sandbox has that bug < 1457379932 611338 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps axu | grep bash < 1457379933 290596 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :941 5000 /bin/bash PRIVMSG/tr_21.cmd PRIVMSG #esoteric !bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] \ 967 5000 /bin/bash scmds/bfjoust bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] PRIVMSG #esoteric !bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] \ 990 5000 /bin/bash scmds/bfjoust bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] PRIVMSG #esoteric !bfjoust < 1457379945 975424 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls /proc/941 < 1457379946 775400 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :attr \ autogroup \ auxv \ cgroup \ clear_refs \ cmdline \ comm \ coredump_filter \ cpuset \ cwd \ environ \ exe \ fd \ fdinfo \ io \ limits \ loginuid \ maps \ mem \ mountinfo \ mounts \ mountstats \ net \ ns \ numa_maps \ oom_adj \ oom_score \ oom_score_adj \ pagemap \ personality \ root \ sched \ sessionid \ smaps \ stack \ stat \ statm \ status \ syscall \ task \ wchan < 1457379952 670699 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ls -alh /proc/941/exe < 1457379953 133034 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 0 Mar 7 18:57 /proc/941/exe -> /bin/bash < 1457379960 367574 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox strings /proc/941/exe | grep "Bash version" < 1457379961 191051 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@(#)Bash version 4.0.28(1) release GNU < 1457379964 811408 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1457379971 695067 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything uses that version. < 1457379987 689502 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :versio < 1457380009 546662 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest suicide256 [-.] < 1457380009 971183 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.suicide256: points -27.05, score 3.86, rank 47/47 < 1457380029 116496 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest suicide128 (-)*128(.)*-1 < 1457380029 249920 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.suicide128: points -37.71, score 1.83, rank 47/47 < 1457380037 387831 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest suicide1 < < 1457380037 521015 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.suicide1: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457380085 200964 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest suicide128 (-)*128(.-)*-1 < 1457380085 490954 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.suicide128: points -32.74, score 2.01, rank 47/47 < 1457380095 957011 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest suicide128 (-)*128[.-] < 1457380096 411658 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.suicide128: points -34.76, score 2.08, rank 47/47 < 1457380100 783562 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest suicide128 (-)*120[.-] < 1457380101 90087 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.suicide128: points -33.83, score 2.24, rank 47/47 < 1457380107 422176 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox cat /proc/941/personality < 1457380107 908126 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: read error: Operation not permitted < 1457380111 294008 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :personality? < 1457380142 291046 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird < 1457380161 140916 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /exe is a symlink. hrm. < 1457380192 45421 :l0de!sid31830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvdglazumvlovosg PART :#esoteric < 1457380194 146811 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you decided to remove load competely, rather than allowing it for strings? < 1457380201 601556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in luajoust that is < 1457380219 36245 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now. < 1457380225 195913 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some hard to solve problems. < 1457380243 439260 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457380247 254854 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: does "for now" mean you're prepared to re-run the hill if you add it later? < 1457380257 435722 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1457380262 321927 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not near ready for a hill yet. < 1457380264 914516 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1457380271 341341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1457380296 962425 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unless I can fix the determinism issues < 1457380298 648399 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might never be < 1457380307 623445 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 QUIT :Client Quit < 1457380330 137042 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1457380338 258639 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still suggest that you try asking #lua < 1457380355 545913 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone has already tried to make a deterministic variant of lua < 1457380422 438006 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457380461 505814 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh -f=/tmp < 1457380462 61008 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.15005: line 1: -f=/tmp: No such file or directory < 1457380626 707496 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I still want to make a BFOS. Perhaps you could help and we could include your banner maker as a feature? < 1457380637 643866 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help () { :;}; killall -9 report < 1457380637 880454 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for __________killall__9_report! < 1457380639 733826 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-lud < 1457380639 866763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo said 2m 16d 13h 29m 18s ago: http://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html < 1457380649 23962 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps ax | grep report < 1457380649 827630 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :995 5000 ../report ../gearlance ../cache Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust Deewiant_pendolino.bfjoust Fiora_timestopping-mahou-shoujo.bfjoust Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust Lymia_aurora.bfjoust Lymia_flow.bfjoust Lymia_nyuroki.bfjoust Lymia_two_people_runn \ 12430 5000 ../report ../gearlance ../cache Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust Deewiant_pendolino.bfjoust Fiora_timestopping-mahou-shoujo.bfjoust < 1457380662 289164 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[wc], I'm not sure that a banner maker is the most important part of an OS < 1457380674 819027 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yeah, but it < 1457380690 614077 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'d be a cool feature < 1457380693 488823 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf8 . < 1457380693 833996 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457380704 502996 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using a netbook with a shit keyboard) < 1457380710 578412 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh env < 1457380710 941693 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLASH_FAKE_GID=0 \ XDG_SESSION_ID=1233 \ I_CMD=sh \ ARG_FILE=/tmp/input.18746 \ SHELL=/bin/bash \ TERM=xterm \ IRC_SOCK=/tmp/multibot.EgoBot \ XDG_SESSION_COOKIE=3c3b7af247c6eb1bba05718349f88198-1450975846.369246-2144293266 \ SSH_CLIENT=99.236.22.36 42058 22 \ IRC_NICK=Lymia \ PLASH_CAPS=conn_maker;fs_op \ SSH_TTY=/dev/pts/0 \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID=5000 \ USER=root \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib \ PLASH_FAKE_EGID=0 < 1457380746 635186 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox env < 1457380747 209060 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLASH_FAKE_GID=0 \ XDG_SESSION_ID=1233 \ I_CMD=sh \ ARG_FILE=/tmp/input.19296 \ SHELL=/bin/bash \ TERM=xterm \ IRC_SOCK=/tmp/multibot.EgoBot \ XDG_SESSION_COOKIE=3c3b7af247c6eb1bba05718349f88198-1450975846.369246-2144293266 \ SSH_CLIENT=99.236.22.36 42058 22 \ IRC_NICK=Lymia \ PLASH_CAPS=conn_maker;fs_op \ SSH_TTY=/dev/pts/0 \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID=5000 \ USER=root \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib \ PLASH_FAKE_EGID=0 < 1457380749 897619 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox id < 1457380750 366083 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=1916107 gid=1916107 < 1457380779 213927 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox env | grep I_ < 1457380779 634074 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :I_CMD=sh \ I_ARG=busybox env | grep I_ < 1457380795 299009 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; killall -9 report < 1457380795 658771 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: /usr/bin/killall: Function not implemented < 1457380811 460564 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; env; killall -9 report < 1457380812 24652 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: /usr/bin/env: Function not implemented < 1457380819 518059 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help () { :;}; killall -9 report < 1457380819 753044 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for __________killall__9_report! < 1457380825 882685 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1457380826 187521 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: As long as you < 1457380828 981545 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAAAAH < 1457380835 762483 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh busybox ps ax | grep report < 1457380836 639835 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :995 5000 ../report ../gearlance ../cache Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust Deewiant_pendolino.bfjoust Fiora_timestopping-mahou-shoujo.bfjoust Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust Lymia_aurora.bfjoust Lymia_flow.bfjoust Lymia_nyuroki.bfjoust Lymia_two_people_runn \ 12430 5000 ../report ../gearlance ../cache Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust Deewiant_pendolino.bfjoust Fiora_timestopping-mahou-shoujo.bfjoust < 1457380843 879026 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help () { :;}; echo test < 1457380844 101518 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for __________echo_test! < 1457380851 250950 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; echo test < 1457380851 662615 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :test \ /tmp/input.21095: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.21095: line 1: `() { :;}; echo test' < 1457380854 967014 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re a God of Brainfuck, do you know of a floating point implementation for BF? < 1457380872 916632 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; echo $PID < 1457380873 327100 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/input.21441: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.21441: line 1: `() { :;}; echo $PID' < 1457380880 514809 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; echo $PLASH_FAKE_GID < 1457380880 880725 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/input.21595: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.21595: line 1: `() { :;}; echo $PLASH_FAKE_GID' < 1457380887 94327 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; echo $IRC_NICK < 1457380887 535476 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/input.21732: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.21732: line 1: `() { :;}; echo $IRC_NICK' < 1457380905 833924 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; busybox id < 1457380906 295795 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: /bin/busybox: Function not implemented < 1457380915 628302 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; echo `busybox id` < 1457380916 66711 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: fork: Function not implemented \ \ /tmp/input.22220: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.22220: line 1: `() { :;}; echo `busybox id`' < 1457380919 536866 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; echo `busybox id`; < 1457380919 985665 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: fork: Function not implemented \ \ /tmp/input.22320: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.22320: line 1: `() { :;}; echo `busybox id`;' < 1457380946 814837 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; export ARG_FILE="" < 1457380947 224486 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.22828: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.22828: line 1: `() { :;}; export ARG_FILE=""' < 1457380957 66788 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaah < 1457380973 293379 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any particular reason you don't do that via /msg? < 1457381004 119573 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh () { :;}; export LD_DEBUG="all" < 1457381004 579024 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.23674: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ /tmp/input.23674: line 1: `() { :;}; export LD_DEBUG="all"' < 1457381007 567239 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly < 1457381036 168953 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Then start doing it via /msg < 1457381048 901240 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure like complaining < 1457381075 167526 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I do < 1457381080 655929 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh env | sed s/=.*//g < 1457381081 219950 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLASH_FAKE_GID \ XDG_SESSION_ID \ I_CMD \ ARG_FILE \ SHELL \ TERM \ IRC_SOCK \ XDG_SESSION_COOKIE \ SSH_CLIENT \ IRC_NICK \ PLASH_CAPS \ SSH_TTY \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID \ USER \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH \ PLASH_FAKE_EGID \ SOCAT_PID \ MAIL \ PATH \ _ \ PWD \ EDITOR \ PLASH_COMM_FD \ IRC_HOST \ IRC_IDENT \ PLASH_FAKE_UID \ SOCAT_VERSION \ I_ARG \ JAVA_ARGS \ SHLVL \ HOME \ LOGNAME \ SSH_CONNECTION \ XDG_RUNTIME_DIR \ SOCAT_PPID < 1457381090 835676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In fact, I might ask them myself.) < 1457381091 477191 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also deletes teue wisdoms < 1457381111 607078 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH < 1457381112 78948 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/lib/plash/lib < 1457381122 415145 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh LD_LIBRARY_PATH="" ps ax < 1457381122 858266 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot find /proc/version - is /proc mounted? < 1457381141 807124 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh LD_LIBRARY_PATH="" busybox ps ax < 1457381142 206831 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID USER COMMAND \ ps: can't open '/proc': No such file or directory < 1457381213 798460 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I think you could permit later extensions of the luajoust built-in library while keeping determinism. You would have a table for this where you store exceptions, and rig the table with its metatable such that if the program tries to access a nonexistant entry, it blows up (with an uncatchable exception, same as you have to treat out of memory errors), and that the metatable can't be changed. < 1457381235 820643 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you could also make a few entries (like load) in the global environment like that. < 1457381247 872189 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to permit accessing those elements if they're assigned first, for ease of use. < 1457381270 42133 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually lua does that already. < 1457381281 681503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that the X window system is very well designed, although some of the modern extensions seem to be worthless and/or should be optional. Also in some cases, protocol extensions probably are not needed anyways, to do something < 1457381291 784598 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you'd have to make the table unnextable with its metatable. < 1457381319 406984 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the BFOS, I'm adding {} for conditionals and * for pointers < 1457381350 953011 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh env x='(){:;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test" < 1457381351 414680 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a test < 1457381353 113400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1457381361 11973 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have a lua 5.3 here to test? < 1457381364 487024 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!"sh" echo 3 < 1457381367 307286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not I'll compile one locally < 1457381374 500639 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lua --version < 1457381376 63103 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua: unrecognized option '--version' \ usage: lua [options] [script [args]] \ Available options are: \ -e stat execute string 'stat' \ -i enter interactive mode after executing 'script' \ -l name require library 'name' \ -v show version information \ -E ignore environment variables \ -- stop handling options \ < 1457381382 52067 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lua -v < 1457381382 838079 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua 5.2.1 Copyright (C) 1994-2012 Lua.org, PUC-Rio < 1457381388 918020 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :local then < 1457381416 600486 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh a b c < 1457381417 35242 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.29799: line 1: a: command not found < 1457381421 620122 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo a b c < 1457381422 63531 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b c < 1457381427 871687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help a b c < 1457381428 109682 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for a_b_c! < 1457381578 229098 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo $ARG < 1457381578 557079 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457381637 466072 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp test bf () { :;}; echo vulnerable < 1457381637 976072 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for test! < 1457381643 287327 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp test_ss bf () { :;}; echo vulnerable < 1457381643 654974 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter test_ss installed. < 1457381649 198642 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!test_ss < 1457381649 602086 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :vulnerable < 1457381667 403324 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp test_ss bf () { :;}; id < 1457381667 646434 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for test_ss! < 1457381669 805250 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp test_ss2 bf () { :;}; id < 1457381670 126137 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter test_ss2 installed. < 1457381671 912544 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!test_ss2 < 1457381672 251217 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=5000(egobot) gid=0(root) groups=0(root),150 < 1457381688 380050 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp test_ss3 bf () { :;}; $* < 1457381688 710167 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter test_ss3 installed. < 1457381690 837961 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!test_ss3 id < 1457381691 391889 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457381741 430099 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: further nastiness. string.format("%e", 1) calls the libc's sprintf or snprintf function, so on windows it will use one different formats (three digits for exponent instead of two, and some completely nonstandard output for infinity and nan) < 1457381749 993486 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick < 1457381754 977880 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1457381759 967756 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be problematic. < 1457381763 66784 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :("").format < 1457381777 915953 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could do string.format = nil in the global context if you really need to. < 1457381778 660779 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457381786 153095 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This requires thought < 1457381816 915707 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: also, I think on some platforms (at least windows) you can extract the sign and mantissa of a nan that way (I think the C standard actually allows that, it's only the particular format windows uses that's wrong) < 1457381830 597322 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: let me see if the default implicit number to string conversion also does this < 1457381841 675391 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, 1..(1.0e100/3) < 1457381843 103552 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just %e? < 1457381907 770916 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: no, also %g and %E and %G < 1457381918 171788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think %f is affected too because of nan < 1457381926 969544 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know if %a is affected or not < 1457381930 844704 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and %A) < 1457381962 661060 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look up how the number to string conversion works < 1457382287 971233 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes int-e
< 1457382394 252020 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I do? < 1457382432 726731 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I'm doing important things right now... like watching the lastest John Oliver youtube video. < 1457382629 771574 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :My entire backlog: Lymia messing with bots < 1457382636 66759 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1457382688 730338 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457382805 380409 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it seems you can reveal the sign of nans by an implicit string conversion even on linux < 1457382920 233848 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for prooftechnique_fishbones: 0.0 < 1457382920 399905 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_comex_the_first_program_ever: 13.0 < 1457382920 533592 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for prooftechnique_test: 0.2 < 1457382920 666783 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_pause5: 5.2 < 1457382920 666832 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_attack1: 12.0 < 1457382920 800205 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_dead: 0.0 < 1457382920 800256 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_pause2: 5.2 < 1457382921 664806 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_is_this_working_yet: 19.8 < 1457382921 798370 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_two_people_running_from_a_shark: 1.6 < 1457382922 657401 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_live: 0.0 < 1457382922 790907 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_pause3: 5.2 < 1457382923 668613 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_pause: 1.3 < 1457382932 418664 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it. < 1457382949 178614 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :two_people_running_from_a_shark :DD < 1457382960 85150 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: and it seems that ordinary number to string conversion also calls the system libc's sprintf < 1457382974 357675 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: so you're screwed < 1457382993 919425 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: basically, you'd have to change a LOT in lua < 1457383007 288540 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am working on a Scala implementation of Lua < 1457383009 417567 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not far along, but. < 1457383011 839251 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a thing. < 1457383022 770801 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add a deterministic mode < 1457383027 197419 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: should I put notes about these on the esowiki page, or do you want to write them up instead? < 1457383031 409011 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go ahead. < 1457383035 653819 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala? why scalar? < 1457383037 894834 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1457383040 98938 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ar/a/ < 1457383050 477818 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's the language I'm most proficient at. < 1457383076 233499 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1457383083 481812 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not particularly interested in writing a Lua interpter in a language I'm not good at. < 1457383084 344990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know anything about Scala < 1457383087 831485 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scala < 1457383089 522733 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457383098 25343 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a JVM language with functional programming features. < 1457383117 831974 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a few nasty warts, but, there's not much better in the JVM. At least, anything statically typed. < 1457383119 869180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457383126 950476 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1457383129 118329 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard about Frege? < 1457383174 149556 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide dance ((>><)*10(<<>)*10)*10< < 1457383176 600861 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_suicide: 4.4 < 1457383177 775963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and i'm disappointed it's not pronounced 'frayzh' < 1457383183 244400 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide_dance ((>><)*10(<<>)*10)*10< < 1457383185 686595 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_suicide_dance: 4.4 < 1457383215 725167 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fray-guh, right? < 1457383222 229257 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: anyway, fixing the string formatting in a customized lua would be possible, but for fixing the table stuff you'd probably need to write an entirely new implementation of tables (presumably one based on a balanced tree and a consistent comparison function) < 1457383238 594302 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: there is frege < 1457383240 574109 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to modify the lua core for either. < 1457383275 206081 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn: no, it's not < 1457383296 69807 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :frege is a german name and to be pronounced german < 1457383304 540011 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide_dance ((>><)*10>(<<>)*10<)*10< < 1457383306 958868 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_suicide_dance: 6.1 < 1457383310 37700 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dance! :D < 1457383318 27643 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an English approximation of the German name < 1457383319 71286 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gottfried? I'm so bad with names < 1457383319 257807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname, yes it is < 1457383333 884590 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gottlob. Close, but wrong. < 1457383339 710329 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1457383345 89712 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like frege < 1457383360 27893 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, haskell is more convinient for me atm < 1457383417 740733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fray-guh is a pretty good approximation to [ˈfreːɡə] < 1457383447 614969 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, maybe english just sucks for that < 1457383465 133248 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :All languages suck for that... < 1457383483 55238 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think sp < 1457383488 420157 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronouncing foreign words "right", that is. Approximations are fine < 1457383510 305594 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inglish is just incredibly bad since its own pronouncoation rules are completely broken < 1457383523 234528 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :englidh even < 1457383527 91026 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they can't even pronounce their own words correctly < 1457383529 53241 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1457383546 657871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :english orthography is a complete mess, yes < 1457383552 273969 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's not my day < 1457383569 412367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 'ay' for /e/ isn't bad at all < 1457383570 461494 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "dearest creature in creation" < 1457383585 467605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you justify the dh in englidh? < 1457383585 600735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `search' failed with: <> < 1457383592 458715 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "dearest creature in creation" < 1457383592 874434 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hears that on youtube once < 1457383598 556002 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1457383607 529067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `search' failed with: <> < 1457383608 390875 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like "dafuq is this shit" < 1457383690 665722 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://youtu.be/tfRSvTSY0d4 < 1457383707 24327 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~clamen/misc/humour/TheChaos.html < 1457383726 652392 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess youtube works as well < 1457383739 263752 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like lindybeige < 1457383742 427047 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46542&oldid=46541 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1114) 10/* Unresolved Problems */ < 1457383892 632189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :looool i guess toRational in haskell gives you an injection from Real to Rational? < 1457383910 844167 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toRational < 1457383911 842740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real a => a -> Rational < 1457383921 917210 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :types don't lie < 1457383955 666593 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the numeric classes in Haskell are a bit of a mess from a practical perspective, and a huge mess from a theoretical one) < 1457383974 978764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw a reddit thread a while back full of haskellers saying that types are all the documentation you ever need < 1457383989 47722 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1457384030 536761 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :types help. types are valuable abstractions restricting program's behavior. but no, they don't fully describe functions. < 1457384056 328644 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type inits < 1457384057 578830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] -> [[a]] < 1457384058 590024 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wuild make djinn incredibly useful < 1457384059 331384 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type tails < 1457384060 481689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] -> [[a]] < 1457384070 434742 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean who cares about the difference between fst and snd < 1457384079 995644 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's visible in the type. < 1457384091 593799 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type fst < 1457384092 679812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b) -> a < 1457384094 897207 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type snd < 1457384095 193986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait yeah im idiot < 1457384096 54583 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b) -> b < 1457384099 47624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking (a,a) < 1457384121 303152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about the difference between K and KI! < 1457384136 861513 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,a) would have no advantage to [a], wouldn't it? < 1457384164 535782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd know there are exactly 2 things in it... < 1457384198 382207 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1203.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457384225 288970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose this is the same mindset that leads the categorically-inclined to write helpful textbooks that do things like define products purely with a universal property < 1457384230 184330 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457384442 665271 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457384872 482459 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725744@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457385182 746791 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://whatsmyuseragent.com/ this result was far sillier than I expected < 1457385191 949863 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: with ghc at least, (x,y) uses less memory than [x,y], too. < 1457385195 410215 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I learned about the User-Agent history I guess @_@ < 1457385230 888449 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried that with the Windows 10 "Edge" browser? < 1457385266 135237 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I was wrong < 1457385277 887743 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I forgot the result, but it was a long, long list of browsers) < 1457385284 218620 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Chrome, I get Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/48.0.2564.116 Safari/537.36. < 1457385285 988965 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: nowhere do either of the two manuals say that the sign of nans in arithmetic is undefined < 1457385296 650716 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Edge of course it is one longer, excellentttt < 1457385337 175091 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both the sign and mantissa are deterministic for a particular instruction, but sse instructions use a different (crazy) rule for them than the x87 instructions (which us a sane rule). < 1457385389 937174 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lua Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46543&oldid=46542 5* 03B jonas 5* (-3) 10 < 1457385435 314483 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast and loose < 1457385497 712244 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: does that include addition and multiplication too? < 1457385507 890512 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asset-a.soupcdn.com/asset/8754/6027_adb0.jpeg :D < 1457385518 236547 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1457385529 476991 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the result is that on sse, addition ISN'T COMMUTATIVE < 1457385536 744065 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought IEEE 754 was rather strict on those (though I guess you can choose a rounding mode that fits your purposes)... < 1457385539 727863 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ouch. < 1457385565 524437 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, the IEEE doesn't tell which particular nan value (mantissa and exponent) the result has when it's a nan value < 1457385571 828107 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/exponent/sign/ < 1457385578 443122 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's rather strict on everything < 1457385606 76328 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... hmm... all nans are equal (even though they compare as different) < 1457385620 419704 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what about defined results? < 1457385646 455826 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um, what's your question? < 1457385761 116227 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the good news is that I think this might not come up on lua < 1457385768 762929 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457385778 963424 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1457385780 532329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does come up < 1457385781 94553 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: does x + y equal y + x for all x and y such that x + y is defined? < 1457385793 711939 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. not NaN) < 1457385824 550034 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up because you can generate both indeterminate and its negation, and then add them, and the result has a sign that depends on whether that addition is done on sse or x87, and in the case of sse, which order it's done in (the optimizer is permitted to commute it) < 1457385840 883973 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, so by "defined" you mean it's not nan? < 1457385844 427155 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457385854 576375 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, in that case addition and multiplication is commutative < 1457385863 470849 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. I don't care then. < 1457385871 516040 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except as a curiosity) < 1457386063 996234 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care because it's annoying that they ruined the reproducibility of floating point arithmetic this way, when x87 had a perfectly good and documented way of choosing the particular nan result that was commutative and thus deterministic. < 1457386072 420064 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't understand why they did it. < 1457386085 930268 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since the sse version is also documented, it can't be fixed now. < 1457386147 113422 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it could be fixed by introducing a set of new floating point instructions, or perhaps a new flag in the control register, and then adding a compiler flag, and running your code on cpus that support it. < 1457386325 672690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't understand why Intel did this. < 1457386397 282756 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1457386428 464439 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, this could be used as the basis for an esoteric feature in a strongly typed programming language: < 1457386540 145225 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the language have two floating point types of each size, implicitly converting in both directions. The first one is such that the mantissa and sign of nan values can be arbitrary, and the second one is where it's deterministic. < 1457386602 294770 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you convert from the first type to the second, if it's nan, it's converted to a deterministic one (this can be done relatively quickly, between 2 and 7 instructions depending on what exactly you want), < 1457386719 233464 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the signbit function takes the second type as input, other arithmetic builtins take either type and propagate the types in a sane way. Stringification functions makes sure not to reveal details about nan. < 1457386781 414710 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're permitted to explicitly reinterpret from the first type to the second, unless certain sandbox flags are set, but if you don't do that, then floating point arithmetic will be deterministic. < 1457386811 694786 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Floating point transcendent functions are a different question. Those are not guaranteed to be deterministic, but in practice they might be on sane systems.) < 1457386823 485356 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode v̲e̲r̲y̲ < 1457386826 382775 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0076 LATIN SMALL LETTER V] [U+0332 COMBINING LOW LINE] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0332 COMBINING LOW LINE] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0332 COMBINING LOW LINE] [U+0079 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y] [U+0332 COMBINING LOW LINE] < 1457386880 758641 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably there'd also be unsafe stringification functions. < 1457386992 149455 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the floating point functions that let you examine representation (take representation as integer, make from representation integer, bitwise ops) would also operate on the correct types. < 1457387028 732578 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, if I wanted to make a deterministic interpreter, I could implement this in C++ to help writing the interpreter in an eso way. < 1457387089 808804 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in that case, unless you're writing a really optimizing interpreter, presumably all the float values the interpreted program works with will be represented as the first type floats, and fixed only before those few functions that need it. < 1457387429 624655 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457387581 195909 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457387740 435655 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725743@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457387980 943446 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :JVM would be nice for that < 1457387983 482390 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use strictfp. < 1457387999 834414 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let the JVM take care of making sure floating point is deterministic for me. < 1457388055 875351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: only if the stuff is statically typed. < 1457388093 260256 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's weakly typed, then it's better to just normalize the float before you do any operation where the nan representation matters, rather than to keep track of which floats are already normalized < 1457388164 10754 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what strictfp does. < 1457388183 412239 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write the code normally and let the JVM make all floating point operations do the right thing on all platforms. < 1457388346 855891 :hppavilion[wc]!4a725743@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.114.87.67 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1457388495 974837 :jaboja!~jaboja@emm253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457388637 520192 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1457389892 558433 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1457390349 36052 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457390534 933822 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457390586 971821 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457390597 16493 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457390600 361755 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457390673 677238 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457390952 673177 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457391025 982255 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457391305 511100 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1457391357 6691 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457391549 241888 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457392467 436610 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1457392473 332153 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :java/java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures < 1457392562 970029 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457392676 466027 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457393114 251233 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How cruel < 1457393176 340561 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellymia. I'd say Java is a nice core, wrapped in endless layers of Enterprise Abstraction. < 1457393202 430289 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's AbstractTurtleFactories all the way down. < 1457393322 485845 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457393498 244793 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java the language and the JVM are... acceptable. < 1457393507 66011 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ecosystem is a big nope. < 1457393554 550979 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1457393561 644615 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? php < 1457393563 287434 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :php is the PigeonHole Principle < 1457393565 11334 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? python < 1457393568 44220 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :python? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457393569 43576 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ruby < 1457393570 190651 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that Eventually decided to support non-ascii characters. < 1457393574 83113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/java < 1457393580 373908 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro < 1457393607 543962 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example. < 1457393609 190033 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala is nice. < 1457393611 684117 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scala < 1457393612 747624 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457393614 615942 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until you pull in a Java library. < 1457393623 610070 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then have to go "wtf is this???" < 1457393628 285282 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala's syntax turns me off... < 1457393644 780110 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the syntax that weird? < 1457393650 66908 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still roughly C family < 1457393746 828268 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is weird. < 1457393768 717946 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't bother me anymore, at least. < 1457393779 713327 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nor does any language I use. < 1457393845 471410 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is quite nice to me, but, perhaps I'm conflating its semantics with the actual syntax. < 1457393865 878062 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Expression focused, most blocks return a reasonable value) < 1457393866 668565 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: needs more frege, still < 1457394229 562187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could possibly to make C compiling also target JVM? < 1457394295 491838 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457394335 473158 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, clojure is an option, too < 1457394354 416706 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from all the functional languages i know for jvm, i like scala the least < 1457394367 925906 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: DRYING CHICKEN < 1457394702 750109 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries.
< 1457394710 194486 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm? < 1457394717 871426 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :This article was so good, until... "Meanwhile, a third tool, called Monte Carlo tree search, helps the system play strategically as well as tactically." < 1457394728 339823 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/07/go-board-game-google-alphago-lee-se-dol ) < 1457394761 937526 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: btw girl genius: here goes nothing D: < 1457394797 930614 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's going on with olist twh < 1457394810 361643 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there was an olist earlier today? < 1457394813 165455 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1457394814 97995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457394815 474772 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, at least to my limited understanding, the tree search is really about the tactics, though it's a bit blurry because some tactics will be ingrained as patterns in the policy network as well.) < 1457394819 130397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's updating once a week now? < 1457394858 790405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone participated in our university's "Introduction to AI" course's JVM-sandbox-based boardgame AI tournament thing with a non-Java JVM language, I think it might've been Scala. < 1457394887 60096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the other solutions were generally <100 kB, but theirs was something like 7 MB. < 1457394901 689989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of all the libraries they had to include in the .jar to make it go. < 1457394938 822979 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did anybody compare the source code size? < 1457394988 112388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't one of the metrics. < 1457394998 450005 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh... big jump forward on that story arc < 1457395015 102864 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Scala it was. < 1457395068 589636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala.util.parsing.* and scala.xml.* are particularly big chunks in here. < 1457395088 832343 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also their .jar doesn't include the sources. < 1457395093 156484 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well they _were_ pressed for time, they're under attack after all. < 1457395116 761977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard Ant build file we shipped did include .java files in the deliverable it made, but I guess they had to use their own. < 1457395149 268582 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but even with the castle's help, extending their tunnels to the right location must've taken a while < 1457395170 272644 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does Gil know about the poison? < 1457395175 564649 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh. i thought you meant today. yes, it said it took months. < 1457395199 96246 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i don't know how he would. he _should_ be able to notice he's been stabbed...