< 1457654409 897929 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but it'd be nice < 1457654447 412743 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/fnord < 1457654449 371617 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e ais523 oerjan < 1457654474 679958 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/paran/paren/' wisdom/fnord < 1457654477 326604 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457654512 424814 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's badly capitalized too < 1457654800 352162 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with the Warren Abstract Machine hth (i'm not really) < 1457654891 368419 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've heard of it, but don't remember it being abstract < 1457654929 22322 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks pretty officially abstract imo < 1457655698 553791 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : what was the language whose programs build a ring (i guess?) called? <-- capra i think < 1457655726 97940 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cabra < 1457655746 255676 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's only semi- < 1457655754 47646 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds right < 1457655784 969193 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, burro is what i looked for < 1457656120 931493 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457656168 674161 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It would be pretty cool to see a useful language whose programs form a mathematical-in-nature structure < 1457656356 878160 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457656701 778374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], what do you even mean by that < 1457656720 856017 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Like cabra < 1457657119 655715 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. Is it... normal for no-compete clauses to be in event waivers for attending an event? < 1457657123 553248 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that seems bizarre < 1457657135 697982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the very narrow niche of cpressey's ventures into algebraic structures on programs < 1457657204 277387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which didn't get very far, imo, because he defined his algebras on programs up to computational equivalence, which is an incredibly nasty relation if you're looking at most nontrivial classes of program < 1457657497 125816 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ????? < 1457657518 3010 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Camp No Counselors Waiver and Release of Liability" contains this clause: < 1457657532 466676 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"9. I further agree that I will not directly or indirectly engage in any business that competes with Camp No Counselors, or solicit any person working on behalf of Camp No Counselors for any business that directly or indirectly competes with Camp No Counselors, for a period of three years following the Camp No Counselors event. " < 1457657550 153465 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty unusual and probably unenforcable < 1457657643 964004 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I should hold off registering, though < 1457658125 601541 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I think it's prohibiting you from starting a competitor, not from joining a competitor's camp < 1457658134 801702 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So you don't steal their ideas :P < 1457658311 225596 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still seems like a bit of a harsh restriction just from going once < 1457658339 420336 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457659486 458184 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : as I said, radix sort is O(n log k), where k is the maximum value of the things you're sorting <-- i recall from when reading about one of edwardk's experiments that sorting is actually O(n) if you interpret n as total input memory in bits. < 1457659501 967149 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sign extend operation: x-=(x&s)<<1; < 1457659512 532101 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(his experiment was generalizing radix sorting to arbitrary data structures, i think) < 1457659555 1109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where "s" is a number only with the sign bit of the input format set) < 1457659572 492139 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if you consider the size of the integers you sort as irrelevant except for their contribution to total memory < 1457659646 863082 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hackage.haskell.org/package/discrimination < 1457659725 421931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so (x&s) is either 0 or -1 < 1457659739 164644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1)<<1 is undefined in C but -2 in two's complement? < 1457659744 569727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding 2 to a number doesn't sign extend it < 1457659746 783888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm confused < 1457659828 675312 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the "x" is actually of a larger type than the input, but is input and zero extended into "x" initially < 1457659832 127154 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't it either 0 or minint? < 1457659844 173388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right, good point < 1457659862 445064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and INT_MIN << 1 is kind-of awkward to define but is most reasonably defined as 0 < 1457659881 923336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as C program is concerned, x, s, and (x&s) are all non-negative initially (although the result might be negative) < 1457659967 15339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AIUI, it's for turning a previously zero-extended value into a sign-extended one. < 1457659992 305111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1457660099 934593 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't INT_MIN << 1 = INT_MIN - 1 = 0b111...110? < 1457660123 582441 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, never ind < 1457660134 695640 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid two's complement < 1457660151 111453 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :INT_MIN = 0b1000...00 < 1457660319 542063 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: apparently it is really INT_MIN for a smaller int, cast into the larger one. < 1457660337 246712 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*int type < 1457660691 162592 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to color the nonstandard charatcers in my font demo. < 1457660698 534292 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What color should they be? < 1457660729 999019 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, precisely, do "over" and "under" mean in math? I know what context they're used in and can often guess which one's right, but I don't know their strict definitions < 1457660773 259505 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :over is how you pronounce a fraction bar < 1457660779 861480 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard under < 1457660869 621693 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: No, like "+ forms a group over the reals" < 1457660871 981101 :jaboja64!~jaboja@ejw72.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457660952 585208 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. that means that the tuple (+,ℝ) is a group < 1457660985 496692 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a group is a tuple of a operation and a set < 1457660994 65340 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Yes, but what are the definitions of "over" and "under" < 1457660997 711110 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I know what a group is xD < 1457661027 986618 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an operation is over a set if it is closed in it, i guess < 1457661048 414017 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Then why do we say "closed over x" < 1457661054 447305 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Why not just say "is over x" < 1457661078 676088 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I think operations and functions are just always "over" values < 1457661084 266464 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably the definition < 1457661088 12355 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I could check ##math < 1457661133 295321 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checked < 1457661215 374851 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dad says "+ is over ℝ" means the domain of the two operands is ℝ < 1457661286 748898 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also have a function f(x,y) "over ℝ and ℂ" meaning one operand is real and the other complex < 1457661535 575609 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja NICK :realdonaldtrump < 1457661666 409326 :realdonaldtrump!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja NICK :Elronnd < 1457661765 955103 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 < 1457661893 50986 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457661899 923086 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: All functions are closed over 𝕍. True fact. < 1457662047 340370 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think we should define ALL the bb letters) < 1457662088 98613 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔹𝔹 is the set of bitmaps describing blackboard bold letters. hth. < 1457662102 931237 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 < 1457662104 118018 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1D413 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL T] [U+1D411 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL R] [U+1D414 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL U] [U+1D40C MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL M] [U+1D40F MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL P] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+1D413 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL T] [U+1D411 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL R] [U+1D414 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL U] [U+1D40C MATHEMATICAL BOLD C < 1457662167 453611 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝕩𝕚 is the set of imaginaries produced from 𝕩 < 1457662183 293872 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make Blackboard Bold Great Again" < 1457662216 656916 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Think we need a `bb command for that? < 1457662480 593322 :yorick!~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457662480 766525 :yorick!~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Changing host < 1457662480 766587 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457662728 611176 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔸𝔹ℂ𝔻𝔼𝔽𝔾ℍ𝕀𝕁𝕂𝕃𝕄ℕ𝕆ℙℚℝ𝕊𝕋𝕌𝕍𝕎𝕏𝕐ℤ < 1457662731 638897 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝕒𝕓𝕔𝕕𝕖𝕗𝕘𝕙𝕚𝕛𝕜𝕝𝕞𝕟𝕠𝕡𝕢𝕣𝕤𝕥𝕦𝕧𝕨𝕩𝕪𝕫 < 1457662734 613321 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝟘𝟙𝟚𝟛𝟜𝟝𝟞𝟟𝟠𝟡 < 1457662740 133730 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hfwt < 1457662786 848563 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1457662811 652793 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x, y) if over ℝ, and under 𝔽𝕚ℝ𝕖. < 1457662836 101101 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, and the new version is out, featuring capital cursive and lowercase cursive, in the right codepoints < 1457662853 704807 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝒜ℬ𝒞𝒟ℰℱ𝒢ℋℐ𝒥𝒦ℒℳ𝒩𝒪𝒫𝒬ℛ𝒮𝒯𝒰𝒱𝒲𝒳𝒴𝒵𝒶𝒷𝒸𝒹ℯ𝒻ℊ𝒽𝒾𝒿𝓀𝓁𝓂𝓃ℴ𝓅𝓆𝓇𝓈𝓉𝓊𝓋𝓌𝓍𝓎𝓏 < 1457662941 201452 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice < 1457662964 954321 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the lowercase blackboard e :D < 1457663000 192741 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*subtle* < 1457663012 381612 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457663013 968730 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05a04e07s08t03h09e10t11i02c < 1457663024 621392 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechellonique. < 1457663030 708497 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloily! < 1457663182 373667 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think over refers to the domain of a function and under refers to its range. < 1457663199 254177 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1457663203 343172 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider list theory < 1457663233 900883 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pure lists, specifically. One might call it ZFl or ZFCl < 1457663253 384930 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would one optimally define numbers with it? < 1457663291 809747 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first way that comes to mind is f(n)=[[]]*n, where * is the bounded repetition (repn) operation < 1457663317 415158 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Like |z| is a function over ℂ and under ℝ. < 1457663356 15381 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1457663381 101138 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way more similar to the standard set definition is f(n)=[f(n--)], where -- is of course predecessor < 1457663392 593812 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Interesting... < 1457663413 401659 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Unless, of course, you include sgeoids < 1457663421 585153 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457663433 546195 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely read that as Zermelo-Flaenkel < 1457663442 739256 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, then it's still under ℝ < 1457663458 123562 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, |z| isn't under ℝ, it's under ℝx>=0 < 1457663475 795189 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Read what as Zermelo-Flaenkel? < 1457663479 787678 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZF? < 1457663485 214843 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zfl < 1457663487 477519 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1457663488 299592 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ZFl < 1457663502 150986 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZFl < 1457663509 82844 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: One of the things I think math needs is a mathematical definition of naming things < 1457663534 228302 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :m("Gaussian"++x) = m(x)+m(x)i < 1457663561 595721 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :m("Gaussian real") = ℂ < 1457663569 729497 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe it should be a capital M?) < 1457663584 894831 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℨ𝔢𝔯𝔪𝔢𝔩𝔬-𝔉𝔯𝔞𝔢𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔩 < 1457663602 510264 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\. < 1457663624 6124 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that porthello was typeset in fraktur, but I'm too lazy for that, so please imagine it is.) < 1457663635 105436 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :今ボアリは < 1457663699 146563 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔥𝔢\\𝔬𝔯𝔢𝔫\ < 1457663701 977242 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What I'm getting at is I want a function oe(n, s, d) that returns the optimal encoding of n as an element of s where lists can be of depth d < 1457663714 597725 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is defined for all n in s < 1457663727 700104 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1457663733 89926 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks \oren\ < 1457663734 234036 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, \oren\. Thoren\. < 1457663740 165034 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where s is N, Z, R, C, etc. < 1457663748 427563 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℑ 𝔣𝔬𝔯 𝔬𝔫𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔦𝔫𝔨 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯 𝔩𝔬𝔬𝔨𝔰 𝔡𝔦𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔫𝔤𝔲𝔦𝔰𝔥𝔢𝔡 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔫𝔬𝔟𝔩𝔢. < 1457663752 261049 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can pattern match, and probably have to for those sets) < 1457663770 783163 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So really, you're defining 4+ related functions that with the same name and one fixed argument) < 1457663811 533530 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : hppavilion[1]: Like |z| is a function over ℂ and under ℝ. <-- i don't recall any such thing. "over" and "under" as hppavilion[1] describes applies to algebraic structures, not just any functions. < 1457663813 517093 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: We can assume tuples are just length 2 lists and sets are just lists where we ignore ordering < 1457663818 512739 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so what does "optimal" mean? < 1457663854 246230 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: You can define the standard operations (+, -, *, /) with it and it uses the least number of empty lists < 1457663857 406812 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔈𝔵𝔠𝔢𝔭𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔨 𝔦𝔰 𝔱𝔬𝔬 𝔪𝔲𝔠𝔥 𝔩𝔦𝔨𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔱. < 1457663863 801001 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reals are a group under addition, addition forms a group over the reals. < 1457663898 357022 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So optimality([]) = 1, optimality(l) = sum([optimality(i) for i in l]) < 1457663903 74649 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and underlying set functor is a technical term, the right adjoint to the free structure. < 1457663914 948155 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimum = min(encodings) < 1457663916 661612 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the EgoBot command that spits out the unicode info? < 1457663924 518871 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: unidecode? < 1457663930 791581 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⓚ < 1457663931 301056 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help uni < 1457663931 459862 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1457663931 593094 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+24DA CIRCLED LATIN SMALL LETTER K] < 1457663933 98718 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1457663941 624656 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 𝓀 < 1457663944 359572 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quinthellopia. < 1457663944 783684 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1D4C0 MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT SMALL K] < 1457663950 278493 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonne nuitopia! < 1457663954 939070 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you arent sokay < 1457663955 72369 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: You can use multiple characters with unidecode < 1457663958 407109 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1457663972 800299 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, neat. Thanks. < 1457663979 258211 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also, \oren\, see above < 1457663990 654176 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⓚ 𝓀 < 1457663993 439278 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+24DA CIRCLED LATIN SMALL LETTER K] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+1D4C0 MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT SMALL K] < 1457663997 93506 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i recall we pronounced binomial coefficients as "n over k", that's a different but similar use as fractions... < 1457664013 362404 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: YEARLY CHICKEN < 1457664111 471206 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and another use: R^n is a vector space over the reals. then it's not the same as the underlying set. < 1457664118 295158 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Never heard that < 1457664191 168530 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah I havent removed those yet < 1457664266 457383 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : `help uni <-- HackEgo < 1457664278 772980 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s help command takes no arguments. < 1457664327 770615 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured as such < 1457664338 962019 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izy < 1457664429 295134 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔄𝔖 𝔄 𝔅𝔈𝔄ℜ. 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 ℌ𝔄𝔇 𝔑𝔒 ℌ𝔄ℑℜ. 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔄𝔖𝔑'𝔗 𝔙𝔈ℜ𝔜 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔄𝔖 ℌ𝔈? < 1457664441 585502 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAA < 1457664459 295617 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot read that. anyway, food -> < 1457664500 811135 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was very hard to read < 1457664505 587694 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔞 𝔟𝔢𝔞𝔯. 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔥𝔞𝔡 𝔫𝔬 𝔥𝔞𝔦𝔯. 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔞𝔫'𝔱 𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔶 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔥𝔢? < 1457664517 602355 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wtf happened there? < 1457664523 733960 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very good question < 1457664571 731722 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 𝔽 < 1457664572 474346 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1D53D MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL F] < 1457664625 125367 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fúźźý wúźźý wáś á béáŕ. fúźźý wúźźý hád ńő háíŕ. fúźźý wúźźý wáń't véŕý fúźźý wáś hé? < 1457664689 266187 :izy!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1457664696 473558 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿ǝɥ sɐʍ ʎzznɟ ʎɹǝʌ ʇ,usɐʍ ʎzznʍ ʎzznɟ ˙ɹıɐɥ ou pɐɥ ʎzznʍ ʎzznɟ ˙ɹɐǝq ɐ sɐʍ ʎzznʍ ʎzznɟ < 1457664772 867532 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that my definition of optimality makes it so f(0) = [], f(n) = [P(n)] < 1457664816 777734 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: New definition of optimality: optimality([]) = 1, optimality(i:l)=1+optimality(i)+optimality(l) < 1457664831 401585 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, the old definition only works when d=infinity < 1457664850 729001 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the numbers are the naturals < 1457664857 188356 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1457664880 209129 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, if d is finite then you just output the list as a sum of nested lists of max depth d < 1457664883 647928 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Held in a list < 1457664892 684834 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ɟʍʎ < 1457664893 409384 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+025F LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS J WITH STROKE] [U+028D LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED W] [U+028E LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED Y] < 1457664958 2537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457665017 579649 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I honestly don't follow what you're going for. Can you show a worked example of expected output for some input? < 1457665045 377517 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I don't either; the goal is to figure out what the expected output is < 1457665064 577540 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ƒบzzγ พบzzγ พαร α вεαя. ƒบzzγ พบzzγ нα∂ ท๑ нαïя. ƒบzzγ พบzzγ พαรท'т νεяγท∂บzzγ, พαร нε? < 1457665092 95740 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, so say I want to optimally encode 4 in ℕ. < 1457665112 243246 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the limit on the list depth? < 1457665144 251733 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I'm going for a function enc(n, S, d) that takes a number n that is a member of S, a set S which is from some finite collection of sets (probably N, Z, Q, R, or C), and a maximum list depth d (which is, of course, natural) < 1457665235 635896 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so given 4 in ℕ and setting d to 4, what's our encoding? < 1457665247 623590 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should then return a list which is equal to n encoded optimally into a list of maximum depth d- one where +, -, *, and / can be defined- where the maximum list depth is d and it works for all S. < 1457665261 747958 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it just look like [[],[],[],[]]? < 1457665272 29922 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I would guess [[[[]]]] < 1457665287 330620 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine has optimality 4, whereas yours is 5 < 1457665302 216751 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah! Again, I hit the the-answer-is-fucking-obvious-moron barrier! < 1457665304 801630 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1457665315 135286 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pigeonhole principal < 1457665345 751803 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I give up. Have any idea how to encode arbitrary reals as lists? < 1457665353 393852 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimality be damned? < 1457665363 634677 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think your definition of optimality works the way you think it does < 1457665375 45639 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I just don't understand your notation < 1457665379 944921 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, define some way of a comma < 1457665447 97621 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, easy < 1457665471 136240 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(length of numbers before comma, [numbers]) < 1457665479 870329 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's your real < 1457665491 808747 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: You can Church-encode the reals, so that might get you somewhere < 1457665505 107794 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where positions might be made by (value, position) < 1457665517 247958 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What do you not get? Or I don't get? < 1457665521 927683 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course (a, b) is just [[a, b], [a]] < 1457665552 981587 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Comma as in a decimal point? < 1457665559 65983 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1457665580 787575 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Oh, (a, b) is just [a, b] in theory < 1457665595 958265 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [] are ordered, yes < 1457665605 555652 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: YES! THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT! < 1457665606 162439 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need the fancy positioning then < 1457665640 655574 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo 12,345 is [2,[1,2,3,4,5]] < 1457665647 452 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is your real < 1457665648 45391 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: What if n=pi? < 1457665664 207210 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: define pi as a real < 1457665668 813491 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I do < 1457665682 770154 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1457665701 760357 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me your definition of it < 1457665732 611340 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Of what, precisely? < 1457665734 83303 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of pi? < 1457665738 671967 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure yet < 1457665739 643903 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have optimality [] = 1; optimality (x:xs) = 1 + optimality x + optimality xs, which doesn't typecheck, if I follow your notation < 1457665740 147323 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: how do you define pi without using pi in the reals? < 1457665762 463472 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Oh, you want pi without pi? tau/2 obviously < 1457665765 794928 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kidding, kiddin < 1457665766 409522 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1457666042 991809 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :🙃 < 1457666167 926127 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: How about... pi=4*summ([1:inf{2}), x) < 1457666173 571926 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that from a taylor series online < 1457666207 968183 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457666217 648202 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that first argument to summ is an interval with a skip) < 1457666237 470042 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wait, no, it's not quite that < 1457666279 817679 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi=4*(1+summ(x=[3:inf{2}), -1/x)) < 1457666284 751579 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :summ is, of course, summation < 1457666287 832599 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go, define addition and multiplication on your [] thingie < 1457666297 330893 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Yep < 1457666299 896817 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right < 1457666309 668742 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's just a haskelly list, but nestable < 1457666311 182519 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1457666326 136623 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pur < 1457666326 727675 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1457666336 873800 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :setler killed all the impure sets < 1457666355 649784 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, that expression was wrong too < 1457666367 154981 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not n-m-o-q-p, it's n-m+o-q+p < 1457666375 15625 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUCH harder to summation < 1457666382 791803 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1457666397 1686 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Really? < 1457666467 94815 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pi=4*(1+summ([3:inf{2}), (-1)^x/x)) < 1457666479 513700 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I suppose you could turn step up to 4 and replace 1/x with 1/x+1/(x+2) < 1457666504 249102 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1457666505 763652 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/30001.1-3.shtml says otherwise < 1457666522 683497 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1457666530 274725 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ^x < 1457666536 551572 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your sum is stupid < 1457666561 661558 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's the best I could do without latex < 1457666575 486074 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if I had latex, I'd need google because I don't latex very often < 1457666581 395649 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's stupid, but it works < 1457666607 652813 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi=4*(summ([0:inf), (-1)^x/(2*x+1)) < 1457666608 444075 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently < 1457666616 717604 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that works too < 1457666642 87516 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a cool feature all low-level languages should have < 1457666646 975891 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> function call notation < 1457666654 539096 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(*a) < 1457666661 787783 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows you to choose the return type < 1457666671 124908 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allowing multimethods for output, too < 1457666677 708084 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(return type must be directly specified) < 1457666726 512385 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, must be defined, though languages should be able to guess return type if they're similar but this specific type is undefined- e.g. float -> double < 1457666731 413161 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1457666751 26916 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be good for a low-level language that hasn't been done yet? < 1457667005 438172 :^v^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457667012 773444 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457667012 907514 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457667042 767113 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@sassages-loud < 1457667042 900462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 1h 37m 54s ago: My neural net thinks there's a historical language called Middle Worse. <-- PLAUSIBLE < 1457667087 535021 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457667355 724244 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What would be good for logic programming? Any ideas? < 1457667384 192094 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably something fairly minimal < 1457667722 444816 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical-event maybe? < 1457667843 385883 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. < 1457667899 636177 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One might say I spend a lot of time trying to come up with "low-level" stuff. < 1457667941 379463 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at, say, Al Dente, and tell me that's not low-level. < 1457668023 775338 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might describe Al Dente as a low-level logical-event language...) < 1457668092 518420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1457668097 272363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mesdames-loud < 1457668097 405670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1457668102 222927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan hasn't used that one yet < 1457668368 15208 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@meddaged < 1457668368 148657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1457668382 608041 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@xessaxes < 1457668382 741455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1457668398 283651 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pulp < 1457668398 454369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: pl help < 1457668407 461951 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@whelp < 1457668407 595749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1457668408 748317 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn middle worse/Mïðal VVőrszü vvoràði nyëlv spöket af magyar inva̋ðerek Herefördshirben < 1457668411 750918 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :leszármazott < 1457668414 448417 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : argh < 1457668417 710474 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «middle worse» < 1457668421 863806 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid newline paste < 1457668447 276407 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read that. < 1457668478 549594 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastfiles < 1457668480 106533 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/middle worse < 1457668488 681078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/sedlast//sed -i "$1" "$(lastfiles)" < 1457668494 732775 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/sedlast < 1457668501 194398 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/mkx < 1457668502 223896 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key" < 1457668535 116884 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/mk < 1457668535 806907 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key" < 1457668540 728647 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn middle worse/Mïðal VVőrszü vvoràði nyëlv spöket af magyar inva̋ðereknek leszármazottok Herefördshirben äppröxima̋tely 1250. < 1457668544 859871 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned «middle worse» < 1457668562 260368 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't read that. < 1457668573 211966 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent! < 1457668654 520111 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: imagine hungarians inexplicably invading herefordshire some time before 1250 hth < 1457668670 583165 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kokogadene. < 1457668728 428931 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: google translate can't read that < 1457668736 822586 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it thinks it's japanese < 1457669579 973895 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn middle worse/Mïðal VVőrszü vvoràði nyëlv spöket af magyar inva̋ðereknek leszármazottai Herefördshirben äppröxima̋tely 1250. < 1457669583 225117 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned «middle worse» < 1457670132 212185 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457670253 336381 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese is the most accurate guess as to what language that is. < 1457670265 971150 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that the term "Video Graphics Array" doesn't really make sense. < 1457670275 536979 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Video graphics"? Isn't that what "video" means? < 1457670397 6858 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to text graphics < 1457670410 879324 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the block and line charatcers < 1457670588 495855 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but why not just "video array"? < 1457670595 979229 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it simply because that's too short? < 1457670601 141018 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which, mind, is a perfectly good reason.) < 1457670687 479679 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess to fit in with CGA and EGA < 1457670711 33934 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "video" refers to a greater refresh rate? < 1457670796 157895 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deltab: that makes sense. < 1457670810 925141 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What type of graphics does this thing provide? Text graphics? Nope, this thing provides video graphics. < 1457670939 374494 :treaki_!~treaki@p54BF2CC7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457670951 340690 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CGA and EGA were both 60 Hz < 1457671021 162409 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the 256 color registers with 262,144-color global palette < 1457671071 457057 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wklzoyenlfwsvjyj PRIVMSG #esoteric :@so !haskell (\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))"@so !haskell (\\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))""--"-- < 1457671071 590261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hs: 1: 1:Parse error: ! < 1457671175 690285 :treaki__!~treaki@p54BF2CC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457671176 233195 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the Game Boy has a CPU clock speed of 4.19 MHz, and a frame rate of 60 Hz. The screen size is 160 * 144. That means that the number of clock cycles per pixel-frame is... < 1457671185 285161 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4190000 / (60 * 160 * 144) < 1457671186 689396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.0309606481481484 < 1457671197 560175 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 3. That's not very many. < 1457671276 850305 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean that if you're, say, walking around a map, then a very large percentage of the CPU is spent simply updating the screen? < 1457671306 288235 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you'd have the CPU update each pixel separately < 1457671477 402211 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Looks like it had something to do with tiles and sprites. < 1457671483 533289 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list so < 1457671483 990864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No module "so" loaded < 1457671487 424739 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help so < 1457671487 558240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1457671508 316512 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting how older computing technology is occasionally quite a bit more complicated than the newer stuff. < 1457671513 845720 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the overall complexity has only increased. < 1457671538 578021 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are certain problems where the simple solution works nowadays, but wouldn't have worked back then, because of the computing resources required. < 1457671557 339584 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1457671590 210627 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, what form does computer audio take nowadays? A big list of millions of numbers. < 1457671597 589412 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some things are reversed: palette cycling was easy and cheap on systems using color register, but nowadays you'd have to update each pixel < 1457671652 256306 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it way back when? You'd have a few different synthesis things and some kind of code controlling them, I dunno. < 1457671659 716484 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have done that in web browsers by changing the palette bytes in a PNG and redisplaying it < 1457671688 37799 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@so < 1457671688 170942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: expected a Haskell expression or declaration < 1457671700 379925 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, various waveform generators: square, sawtooth, noise, sine if you were lucky < 1457671701 602533 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@soh < 1457671701 775854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: yow src show do < 1457671726 546421 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@so x >>= \a -> b < 1457671726 679864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { a <- x; b} < 1457671732 688674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes if it is a indexed color PNG then you can easily do that < 1457671777 138147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With any program that can display PNG, including but not limited to web browsers) < 1457671820 217081 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, but to display it means the program has to decompress the whole image again, render it to a buffer, and copy the buffer into the screen buffer < 1457671846 817797 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing color registers was just a few writes < 1457671859 103339 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware did the rest < 1457671866 267571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, even on Famicom you can change the colours by hardware < 1457671930 367247 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that went when 16, 24, 32-bit color came along < 1457671938 932650 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@so fmap f a < 1457671939 65882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap f a < 1457671955 408665 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@so fmap f . fmap g $ a < 1457671955 542000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap f . fmap g $ a < 1457672325 496664 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GameBoy had hardware scrolling, tiles, an overlay window, sprites, and four wave generators: http://fms.komkon.org/GameBoy/Tech/Software.html < 1457672418 582183 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457672439 794636 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457672856 882512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X window system does support having different depths and visuals and stuff and both read/write and read-only colormaps, decomposed and together; however which ones are supported depends on the X server in use (some might not support palettes, while on some others it might be read-only, too) < 1457672888 358427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If computer hardware were made that supported all of these modes then the program could too < 1457672914 614762 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1457674957 216810 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1457675200 160519 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1457675404 307287 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457675551 360820 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero < 1457675809 667540 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457675809 800944 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457675810 11925 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457676167 140659 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457676167 273954 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457676167 274028 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457676568 83462 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457676670 80695 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457678895 427002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457680246 362541 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457680246 534645 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457680246 668188 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457680528 603364 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :Quit: diginet has quit! < 1457680638 25568 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457680892 24176 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457680892 157618 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457680892 157684 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457681307 181005 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457681371 73734 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least my whining to the unicode mailing list brought their attention to the fact that there's no standard machine readable documentation which lists all the characters in each "math variable alphabet" < 1457681416 269726 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead it's only listed in the notes in the character list pdf. < 1457681497 928679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write one yourself if you need it, and publish them as public domain < 1457681614 622725 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of what I've done on my fontdemo page. < 1457681942 582310 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes, that looks like a strange restriction to me. < 1457682214 101848 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457682440 319905 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457682440 453406 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457682440 587062 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1457682880 857765 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457682881 30438 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457682881 30526 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457686273 926199 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457686529 510084 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick < 1457686536 503344 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody define high-phenated < 1457686797 176946 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457686953 900040 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457687697 973966 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1457688189 718148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: is it possible to get tswett's etymology bot to produce definitions too? < 1457688533 546471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Define high-phenated. < 1457688533 739630 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but that's only to be used so rarely? :p. ugh i need to do pages that look suitable for a srfi. < 1457688548 462374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's not worth defining, it's too rare. < 1457689138 865615 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? phenate < 1457689151 305944 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phenate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457689512 245558 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: If you're high-phenated, you are phenated on an elevated level, a level above the regular sort of phenation one gets at phenation clinics. If you're low-phenated, you've actually been deprived of phenation, probably also at a phenation clinic, though people do sometimes de-phenate themselves using various tools such as hammers and chainsaws. < 1457689537 914872 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What does "phenate" mean? < 1457689538 235780 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: this particular professor was very interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then maybe näppärä would be fingery" or something < 1457689546 794456 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1457689553 625422 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa < 1457689562 658419 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That started out coherent and a bit horrifying < 1457689573 773012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you actually from the future? < 1457689573 906728 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you can hang around in the scheme world certainly seems hard. < 1457689601 427526 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured out how wormholes work < 1457689604 302410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing "ancient concept called a newspaper" is a verbatim quote. And "näppärä" is Finnish. < 1457689618 538502 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1457689649 417784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-11-06 04:58:06 you might be interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then < 1457689699 918360 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you mean to imply that you're from the scheme world, but that world is now of the past only? < 1457689700 150898 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: add another zero in there. the generally preferred method of development is not entry level developer < 1457689750 81550 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: we're not supposed to get code written by replacable code monkeys? we've been doing this all wrong then! maybe that's why the application never seems to work. < 1457689750 317091 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it would be lumpy from the star wars trilogy are among my favorite movies, but the throughput doesn't grow equally. < 1457689772 370342 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: is lumpy the ninth elf? < 1457689772 503964 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: s/ at/ in/, though. < 1457689787 103306 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1457689938 901358 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0 < 1457690125 325153 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457690161 605967 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457690637 318863 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457690932 773755 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you run zemhill? < 1457690967 555883 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you can call it that. < 1457690984 310638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in, I haven't touched it in a long while.) < 1457691008 879638 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you take a look at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/hill.git/ and see what's up with it? < 1457691038 412522 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the objects are clearly there, but, master seems to be attached to an older commit for some reason < 1457691048 831534 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When you clone it) < 1457691065 653493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up is that I forgot to set up that post-update hook (for update-server-info) you need for the "dumb HTTP" serving mechanism to work right. < 1457691099 510773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was this close: || ... to actually doing that the other day, then got distracted by a shiny object. < 1457691105 85234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's do that now. < 1457691195 474691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. Also ran it once for good measure. Doing a pull now should work. < 1457691214 933537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hopefully.) < 1457691232 337852 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1457691265 939890 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is fixx < 1457691295 832886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shorter it takes to fix something, the longer I procrastinate with it. < 1457691327 801027 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, help fizzie fix those hooks already < 1457691327 985608 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ( a real mathematical function!) from the sorting package) with modified structures. < 1457691353 977610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a game of Clue(do). < 1457691669 486541 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i skip a makefile rule if none of the targets has been modified? < 1457691696 176577 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457691701 321541 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :makefiles are some dark magic i don't master < 1457691746 122722 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if none of the dependencies < 1457691982 539169 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: isn't that what make does normally? it skips those rules < 1457692038 616810 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'm using it wrong < 1457692072 361683 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers: $(sources) < 1457692079 877822 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : generate headers here ... < 1457692089 629038 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ want to skip it if none of the sources have been modified < 1457692162 98370 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: does your rule actually touch the file called headers? < 1457692181 684233 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make skips the rule if the dependencies have not been modified since headers was modified < 1457692192 691624 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs something to compare to < 1457692207 23666 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't touch them < 1457692279 657304 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-127-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457692281 756039 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arin.ga/XLDTei/raw looks like this < 1457692396 879561 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers is executed every time < 1457692682 173059 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457692874 29103 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: then put the actual output filenames as target operands too, like headers: struct.h proto.h\nstruct.h proto.h: $(src)\n\tcd src & { \\\n... < 1457692901 160740 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise Make has no way to guess when your headers are fresh enough < 1457692958 892391 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm using headers: $(src) src/proto.h src/struct.h and make with no parameters executes headers < 1457693444 498842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457693574 852250 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ solved it < 1457693598 183982 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arin.ga/4lg1We/raw thanks for the help b_jonas < 1457693600 639483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A phony target will always execute if named, since there's no output file(s) to compare the input file timestamps to. < 1457693643 138298 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i unphonyed it < 1457693840 915806 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly that's slightly wrong, in a way that's generally only problem for running it in parallel with -j. < 1457693867 283781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "foo bar: baz" rule doesn't say "use these commands to generate the files 'foo' and 'bar' from 'baz'". < 1457693890 13899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, it says: "use these commands to generate 'foo' from 'baz'" + "use these same commands to generate 'bar' from 'baz'". < 1457693955 682703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the serial case, it doesn't run twice, but that's only because after it's ran once, both outputs are fresh. < 1457693973 210463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In parallel, though, it'll run the whole block of commands twice. < 1457693986 731775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For details, see e.g. http://www.cmcrossroads.com/article/rules-multiple-outputs-gnu-make < 1457694300 636496 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457694404 325636 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so i split that in two rules < 1457694407 219128 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be ok, right? < 1457694897 244008 :earendel2!~earendel@176.7.88.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457694921 693177 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457695129 526251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be fine; the "one output per rule" case is simple, and you can actually generate the files separately. < 1457695157 5748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's more of a problem if you have some funky external tool that makes you more than one file at once.) < 1457695276 428304 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to change the $(obj): $(src) thing as well, right? < 1457695329 337283 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1457695369 675817 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy obj/%.o: src/%.c < 1457695381 45768 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1457695385 3182 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1457695491 406901 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay fixed it < 1457695514 862247 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arin.ga/GsNbbd/raw < 1457695516 835434 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you guys < 1457695633 372104 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(make is an esoteric language) < 1457696351 217320 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457696383 426337 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1457696449 889746 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457696718 198824 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1457698320 351442 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejw72.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457698786 667770 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457699608 40043 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457699837 724606 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457701184 52728 :yorick__!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457701297 627214 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457702428 657141 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make < 1457702469 535872 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make < 1457702490 604927 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1272) b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make < 1457704896 922321 :earendel2!~earendel@176.7.88.215 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457704952 848076 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457705163 224786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Vitsy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46583&oldid=46581 5* 03VTCAKAVSMoACE 5* (+5) 10Fixed dates. < 1457707413 34169 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457707677 629553 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1457707694 424928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you recall that I said on this channel recently that I've never seen 7-zip crash? < 1457707700 962376 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashed now. < 1457708316 365773 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders adding "7-zip support" to the topic... nah. < 1457709776 140019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backtrace contains run > _actual_start > really_start. < 1457709795 427182 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat surprised there isn't no_honest_for_reals_now_start. < 1457710875 955770 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare_to_stop_starting_now < 1457712274 7795 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-114-166.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457712426 381204 :jaboja64!~jaboja@emf122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457712633 871778 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejw72.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457713595 559187 :spiette!~spiette@72-53-140-195.cpe.distributel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457714479 960218 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-114-166.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457715879 960184 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make < 1457715908 630281 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't this why stuff like scons or cmake got made < 1457716417 739102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's never enough build systems. < 1457716754 636112 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should create an esoteric build system. like autotools < 1457716942 80404 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet Sgeo's already done it < 1457716983 738946 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we do create one, I vote for måke as the name < 1457717034 616017 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least more modern languages seem to have decided to standardize on sane ones. < 1457717043 76477 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbt, gradle, cargo and such. < 1457717247 536278 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"info make" is actually reasonably comprehensive < 1457717308 137720 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457718052 70736 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting < 1457718171 7855 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457718443 174085 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457718694 946173 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any recommendations for a good text-based adventure game? I'm looking for something new to do for a few days. < 1457719454 128378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wrote interpreters for the Z-machine VM, so if the game you play is Zork then you can use that < 1457720211 540504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did read report of the game with AlphaGo, they say that both players made bad moves. But what computer hardware is AlphaGo running on? < 1457720264 82850 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a server farm. Last total I saw was something like 1200 cores and 400 GPUs or something crazy like that < 1457720287 929421 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what clock speeds and what instruction set? < 1457720288 964547 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 176 GPUs, as of October 2015 < 1457720297 495354 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The details have not been released < 1457720316 905542 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's been no update to those totals since October, so it's probably more, now < 1457721228 141728 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457722045 142962 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457722684 800166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457724043 248887 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of life question: is "o2bo$bo$2bo$o!" orphan? sorry being really dumb friday evening. < 1457724160 547828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I've seen enough griping about Gradle to confidently say not everyone thinks it's all that sane. < 1457724181 164773 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used it before. < 1457724183 752842 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was sane. < 1457724207 542171 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was very easy to set up when I was doing Minecraft mods. < 1457724212 581431 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457724214 4173 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But beyond that, it was entirely inscrutable < 1457724226 284607 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something broke, I doubt I'd have been able to even try to fix it < 1457724236 414195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sbt managed to be unbeliavably resource-hungry when I was doing a Scala thing (as in, running out of few gigs of memory when doing a toy project), but that was pretty early on, so maybe it's better (or worse...) now. < 1457724266 820277 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbt needs to compile Scala. < 1457724270 388010 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... < 1457724283 168613 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure scalac's responsible for the memory use, not sbt, anyway. < 1457724370 48254 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457724527 931413 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-114-166.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457724803 177794 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: Definitely looks that way, though I'm definitely not an expert < 1457724804 273559 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1457724912 703429 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of wannabe breakthroughs appears to be simple bugs, so i guess i need to start catching it, finally. < 1457724930 825739 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457724949 530722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When making a set of global variables to communicate with audio thread, exactly which of those variables should be volatile and which should not be? < 1457725095 440986 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-114-166.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457725245 541681 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Syms14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46584 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+7366) 10..Why not.. < 1457725355 433430 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have 8 GB of memory, and haven't run out before, anyway. < 1457725371 150740 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :When compiling large Scala projects. But... I might be missing something nasty. < 1457725379 86509 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would not surprise me at all if it used excessive resouecs. < 1457725381 664223 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :resources* < 1457725516 284210 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Syms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46585&oldid=46584 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+0) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1457725716 387258 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457725860 611161 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Syms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46586&oldid=46585 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (-440) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1457725924 704122 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Syms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46587&oldid=46586 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+2) 10/* Interpreter */ Yes, I should use the preview button. < 1457726098 976217 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457726830 504873 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"o2bo$bo$2bo$o2bo!" has 3 parents but "o2bo$bo$2bo$o!" has none, new GoE? what am i missing? < 1457726846 892783 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457727031 720945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you read an RLE pattern? other than copy-and-pasting it into Golly? < 1457727086 265265 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like "X..X\n.X..\n..X.\nX...\n" < 1457727199 313740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so o means set, b means blank, and numbers are prefix pepeat counts? < 1457727204 415875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with $ being newline, and ! being EOF? < 1457727219 880487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1457727223 39751 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so, i use golly indeed < 1457727229 639834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't explain the "bo" which is the wrong length and appears to be centred < 1457727269 256355 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve, are you searching for parents with size (n+2)*(n+2)? < 1457727277 576022 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1457727280 860791 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A larger pattern can get smaller. < 1457727290 528651 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457727348 651007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: what are the rules? produce that pattern in a 4×4 box after one step? or do we have to allow blank space around it? < 1457727409 309165 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use a SAT solver to do this < 1457727476 840476 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6x6 pattern surrounded by spaces produces 4x4 pattern in the center surrounded by spaces, yep, i'm using sat. i'm missing something obvious here. < 1457727491 648260 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve, post it on the forum? < 1457727525 82928 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to check everything first, it just could not be that simple. < 1457727528 481752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o4b2o$bo3b2o$2bo$3bo$4bo$2o$2o! < 1457727539 290680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: that produces your pattern in the centre 4×4 after one step < 1457727565 814357 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1457727612 816591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err golly crashed and I put the blocks in the wrong place < 1457727622 387289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when recreating it from memory < 1457727662 717444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o3b2o$bo3bo$2bo$3bo$o3bo$2o! < 1457727664 527677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: there < 1457727676 160682 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, oh < 1457727685 532365 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ericweisstein.com/encyclopedias/life/GardenofEden.html < 1457727689 529417 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve, are you sure you have the right definition of garden of eden? < 1457727690 714438 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not known if a pattern which has a father pattern, but no grandfather pattern exists (Gardner 1983, p. 249). < 1457727697 624190 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell? < 1457727704 783669 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a garden of eden and go forward one step < 1457727736 776095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: you might be able to synthesize it from a different father < 1457727753 38125 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see! < 1457727753 916428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the gardens in the article, most of the cells disappear after one cycle < 1457727755 88898 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1457727756 141143 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanula: yep, got trapped too. it means that one step can has many fathers < 1457727764 699979 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now :D < 1457727793 846055 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve, I believe the definition of "garden of eden" might not care about the surrounding cells. < 1457727803 399156 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, the 4x4 pattern produced does not need to be surrounded by blank squares. < 1457727830 838737 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each Garden of Eden configuration contains at least one finite pattern (an assignment of states to a finite subset of the cells) that has no predecessor regardless of how the surrounding cells are filled." < 1457727834 765789 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden_(cellular_automaton) < 1457727916 303509 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've red all wikis already, still don't get it < 1457727958 947755 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to make a solver < 1457727977 707857 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, how does this compared with 'orphan'? < 1457727988 744771 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Orphans < 1457728017 686025 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer searches have revealed that there are no Gardens of Eden contained within a 6 × 6 bounding box.[3] < 1457728030 732278 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try one step of $4b2o$b2o$3b2o$3b2o$5b2o$2b2o4$3bobo$2bo3bo$bob2o$3b2obo$bo3bo$2bobo5$2bo$2bo3bo$3b2obo$bob2o$bo3bo$5bo! < 1457728086 681711 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for configurations with a predecessor, but no second order predecessor? < 1457728098 836578 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... are any of such configurations known? < 1457728106 480839 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve, I believe the definition of a garden of eden is. < 1457728118 464715 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if the bounding box is a 4x4 square < 1457728142 273700 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iow, the configuration should not be a garden of eden, but all its predecessors should be) < 1457728142 418619 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no configurations of any size which produce that pattern in the bounding box, regardless of its surrounding squares < 1457728183 638363 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so alive cells must touch bounding box, yes, could be < 1457728191 655222 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, not sure if there's a name but there was a citation about it in the thing i linked 2 links ago < 1457728210 333295 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: thanks for hints! < 1457728255 886605 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: oh thanks < 1457728291 818871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457728306 660509 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Conway itself will give you $50 for it < 1457728413 893436 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457728447 311285 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm itself < 1457728458 144344 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Lifeline_Volume_6, see The Grandfather Problem < 1457728491 20511 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve, under which rules. < 1457728492 346279 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :X...XX\n.X...X\n..X...\n...X..\nX...X.\nXX.... < 1457728495 721514 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a parent to that pattern. < 1457728526 535285 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. "Your obvious ideas are most likely wrong." < 1457728560 3359 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes indeed. < 1457728600 404678 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :many thanks to everybody's time < 1457728674 583910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457728700 858983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: 10bobo$8bo5bo$9b5o$7bob5obo$9b5o$5bo3b5obo$6bo3b4o$3bo3bo6bo$bo6bo3bo$ 2b4o3bo$ob5o$2b5o$ob5obo$2b5o$bo5bo$3bobo! < 1457728728 735118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :produces your pattern in an otherwise blank playfield after one tick < 1457728754 758303 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it was great < 1457728808 756538 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternating quantifiers are so difficult < 1457728839 860236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the block generators are really large in order to be able to get rid of them in one tick without interfering with any of the other parts of the pattern < 1457728845 745649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, bit, not block < 1457729014 496379 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: so no, as ais523 pointed, orphan==GoE < 1457729031 695445 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457729049 455972 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: many thanks, now i've nailed error in my model. < 1457729132 70892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: the orphan is the minimal part of a GoE that makes it a GoE < 1457729143 224962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a GoE is any pattern that include an orphan somewhere < 1457729163 490492 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1457729473 993404 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an algebraic language based on order theory rather than operations? < 1457729485 613100 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an ordered field language? < 1457729947 824010 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean? :v < 1457729971 743858 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: The programs form an ordered field < 1457729976 857701 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyperfield, no less < 1457729990 35056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while trying to figure out what was causing my kernel panics earlier today, I realised I was using an HP Pavilion right now < 1457729999 479895 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome < 1457730000 399720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas hppavilion[1] isn't < 1457730010 324004 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457730018 11201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is possibly going to cause some sort of very small rift in the space-time continuum? < 1457730026 266943 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A hyperfield has succ, pred, add, sub, mul, div, exp, root, log, tet, sroot, slog, etc.) < 1457730054 717569 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks out the window < 1457730054 896641 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD PONIES < 1457730065 967815 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My sister is watching my little pony next to me) < 1457730078 16405 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember how to define anticons < 1457730079 549120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw a pony in person today < 1457730096 69168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :went for a walk in the countryside < 1457730127 698855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead of usual animals like cows and sheep, the fields were providing something different < 1457730143 895289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first one containing animals had ponies, next one had oxen (I think; could have been bulls but the horns were the wrong shape) < 1457730158 177496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the next one had geese; not sure if they lived there, the fence certainly wasn't keeping them in < 1457730164 816007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the one after that had chickens < 1457730181 430709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only one more field had an animal in (not counting obviously wild birds in small numbers), and it was a cat < 1457730191 962134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, who presumably didn't live there < 1457730270 895862 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (++) < 1457730271 72452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] ++ ys = ys < 1457730271 72535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys) < 1457730271 72592 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR < 1457730271 72617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :xs ++ ys = foldr (:) ys xs < 1457730776 768387 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aren't bulls and ox the same thing, except ox are castrated? < 1457730783 315314 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oxen < 1457730789 221177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1457730792 836270 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: you're thinking steers < 1457730796 410500 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oxen are a different species < 1457730797 254784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at recognising unusual farm animals < 1457730809 807508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's an emu farm nearish to where I live, but you can't see the emus from the road < 1457730859 260482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make xterm to change the mouse cursor icon based on whether or not the program has requested to receive mouse inputs? < 1457730861 355380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure why the farmers there decided to farm emus, but they did < 1457730893 491733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: xterm does know whether the program requested mouse inputs, so that seems like a patch that's possible to write without major changes < 1457731073 954535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem would therefore be more easily to tell the mouse mode of the program when using the mouse then. < 1457731108 805579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have the xterm source codes on my computer (since I needed a newer version of xterm than was included in the package manager) < 1457731128 658375 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointerMode... so yeah it definitely knows. < 1457731227 511517 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a useful addition to me as well < 1457731259 142618 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457731419 317742 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457731561 587227 :spiette!~spiette@72-53-140-195.cpe.distributel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457731571 509612 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone should make Kitten, as seen in the topic < 1457731666 897490 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a crack at it < 1457731866 550725 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457731965 162972 :yorick__!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457732152 676900 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457732171 176656 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457732202 539321 :yorick!~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457732202 678722 :yorick!~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Changing host < 1457732202 678827 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1457732398 855385 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ligature < 1457732415 8650 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lag. < 1457732418 779774 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ligature? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457732573 463820 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457732575 266117 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so. < 1457732592 907352 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a program to collect every BFJoust program ever on the zemhill and EgoBot hills. < 1457732606 463564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: via looking at repo history, presumably? < 1457732609 149040 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1457732629 559144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that they work a bit differently: EgoBot doesn't save a program that's submitted into last place, zemhill does for one generation < 1457732638 4767 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think it'd be interesting to put the results of that on the BFJoust page? < 1457732646 949768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, if a program is submitted into last, there's at least a decent chance it's completely meaningless < 1457732670 254798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust meaningless HQ+99++ < 1457732672 728422 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_meaningless: 6.2 < 1457732677 720786 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1457732683 90948 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do anything about it. < 1457732686 538573 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not tehre < 1457732687 485414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /lot/ of bad programs have been submitted < 1457732688 113896 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :there* < 1457732690 544008 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... well, I can < 1457732699 928783 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can search my IRC logs. < 1457732701 802146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not to mention that nop.bfjoust used to actually get onto the hill on occasion) < 1457732703 313361 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have gaps < 1457732716 319755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in the very very early days of egojoust < 1457732721 7892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hill was upside-down by mistake < 1457732726 687677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rewarded more losses rather than more wins < 1457732736 386972 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surprisingly enough, one of the bots from the Stack Overflow hill seems to be surviving on zemhill ) < 1457732740 30763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't notice right away (although we did notice pretty quickly) < 1457732746 152757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: which one is that? < 1457732791 308808 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/git/?p=hill;a=blob;f=StackOverflow.Sp3000_ParanoidBot.bfjoust;hb=5dd28bafd2a08864e3639e0d3163645ed6bcbfe8 < 1457732806 18970 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems pretty similar to some stuff I've seen on the main hill < 1457732814 493867 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : the hill was upside-down by mistake < 1457732814 660077 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : it rewarded more losses rather than more wins < 1457732816 951301 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1457732817 743660 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1457732821 911572 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best program is "<" < 1457732823 563533 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :no contest. < 1457732830 631090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457732839 840115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually someone submitted that when they realised what was going on < 1457732853 9708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another enhancement for xterm would be a UTCE version (which would be able to use the DEC Technical character set, as well as simplify a lot of the other codes involved in xterm) < 1457732859 995589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, "zero your own flag first but stay on the tape" rules are not 100% trivial, although they're probably pretty trivial < 1457732869 608098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: DEC Technical is a different set from the line-drawing one, right? < 1457732874 711680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that basically nobody supports? < 1457732903 397437 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457732905 929850 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea for a variant. < 1457732913 962899 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd BFJoust work out on a cyclic tape? < 1457732936 942113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it is different from the VT100 character graphics set (which is fully compatible with Unicode, and is also compatible with many non-Unicode X fonts) < 1457732957 303939 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the circumstance < 1457732962 573956 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might even get tricked into clearing your own flag. < 1457732967 260432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: assuming you can't trivially just reach the enemy's flag with < ? < 1457732974 292346 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1457732990 941538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that different, probably a bit more complex < 1457732992 879660 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flag [1-8 cells] Flag [1-8 cells] [loop] < 1457732995 72007 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that. < 1457733003 74706 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :With parity for +- and >< < 1457733053 99118 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what file and where in the file I would have to look to modify xterm to change the mouse pointer? < 1457733060 499617 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(256 configurations. \o/) < 1457733066 955734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no < 1457733083 867530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: fwiw, the minimum tape length of 10 rather than 2 was intentional < 1457733090 238910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to guarantee you could get some safe decoys < 1457733124 815996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximum of 30 was chosen to guarantee a chance of decoy overlap (higher maximum means you can't make as many assumptions about the minimum) and to ensure that you could get over to the enemy's flag in the middle of a lock loop and back again < 1457733130 666868 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like it so that the minimum tape length is less than the minimum length between flags. < 1457733141 273474 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The danger if you go past the flag here isn't that you lose. < 1457733156 273449 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that you loop all the way back and clear your own flag. < 1457733219 821608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 and 30 make it so that cell 20 might be the opponent's flag or your own < 1457733268 33452 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tape length 10 would have the flags at most 5 cells apart though. < 1457733274 932267 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457733414 858519 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457733455 812483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I was thinking more in terms of an 8-28 sized gap < 1457733476 564519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :halving it to 4-14 wouldn't change the fundamentals of attack programs < 1457733488 366939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could set fewer decoys, which would make the crazy programs less crazy and I wouldn't really want that :-( < 1457733504 826385 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the bidirectional aspect. < 1457733508 696864 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes defense that much harder < 1457733513 867961 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457733516 386886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't tripwire both < and > < 1457733520 667056 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not easily, anyway < 1457733529 301207 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it'd be attack biased in the first place < 1457733533 398192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can reverse tripwire it < 1457733538 555770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, you'd have to set decoys both sides < 1457733568 779843 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd want parity on < and > too. < 1457733591 511391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably be possible to detect which direction the opponent was clearing in and then focus on it < 1457733597 276531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>-direction, that is < 1457733608 155953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike +- direction that's quite expensive to change < 1457733658 800060 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh it looks like the logic for the pointer is all over the place. xtermDisplayCursor() in misc.c actually changes the pointer, but there are many calls to that function. < 1457733692 699881 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pointer/pointer shape (X11 term: Cursor) < 1457734075 154131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chances of xterm's code not being hellishly crufty by this point are pretty low < 1457734082 623797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xterm has the dubious distinction of predating X < 1457734109 839746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the graphics environment it's most closely associated with) < 1457734260 24056 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that xterm actually predates X < 1457734335 661496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if writing a new one might be better or not < 1457734473 237600 :dos!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457734506 220031 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1457734523 526671 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyuroki and growth2 clearly have a massive lead in points on zemhill < 1457734562 765429 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But margin3 somehow gets +5 ranks out of the markov scoring < 1457734657 35701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellymia < 1457734666 706128 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :meow < 1457734671 723788 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bfjoust days again? < 1457734683 960080 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457734721 27617 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1457734800 26802 :dos!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see a game where you get to mess with the basic equations of life as you play... < 1457734802 672082 :dos!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1457734809 8388 :dos!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1457734880 720082 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1457734888 166442 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see many category-theoretical imperative languages. < 1457734952 813638 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, E=MC^19 < 1457735054 3839 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whose decision was it to decide what to put into the standard X cursor font? Is there any explanation as to why some of them (such as gumby and rtl_logo) are there? < 1457735099 26123 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :G=-6.674 * 10^-11 < 1457735103 499817 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP universe. < 1457735112 375437 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn NICK :lynn < 1457735141 867330 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I remember looking through those a while ago < 1457735188 702281 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them look slapped together in about fifteen seconds, so < 1457735220 820741 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1457735259 20877 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :XC_kitchensink < 1457735262 657775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard the suggestion that "XC_trek" could be used to indicate "warp speed" < 1457735264 739646 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trek" is very dorky too. Oh, oh, and "star"! < 1457735270 204951 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only thing missng. < 1457735283 364580 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "i" in "missing" is also missing < 1457735324 164526 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sharpens her cleaver < 1457735347 743508 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://camo.githubusercontent.com/f66eff40ca06a6d1e519ded2853e9b1acdaa048c/68747470733a2f2f662e636c6f75642e6769746875622e636f6d2f6173736574732f3438313931302f37353836372f62373838663662342d363064392d313165322d386132322d6266363932643465616234642e676966 < 1457735349 446497 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that talk about missing eyes... < 1457735364 223541 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a 3-state binary turing machine is enough to be TC, correct? < 1457735370 450768 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh that link is about ffffifty times longer than I expected it to be < 1457735449 490854 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's so, how does that not mean there are only 43046721 (3^16 (3^4^2, as it's binary and every state can connect to one of 4 other states for each symbol)) possible computations? < 1457735469 707198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making a set of additional cursor shapes (to supplement the standard ones), so possibly XC_kitchensink could be added on??? < 1457735509 51708 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a coffee_mug with ᗡAᗡ on it < 1457735552 668068 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe you can make one so that it looks like that one < 1457735556 380273 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand these as icons < 1457735558 842017 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not as cursors < 1457735671 943830 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are my extra cursor shapes http://sprunge.us/WOaJ I intend to eventually go up to 127 < 1457735855 119791 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], the tape is still infinite, no? < 1457735866 667060 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could store a program on the tape. < 1457735879 131847 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one of those 3^16 computations executes. < 1457735963 703219 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think one is missing then you can tell me that too I suppose, or draw your own and see if it should be included or not < 1457735985 815330 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ais523 is the expert on that 2,3 turing machine thing... I hadn't realized. < 1457735990 987783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :callforjudgement < 1457736000 54872 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1457736013 708995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, at least that's a reasonably straightforward typo < 1457736017 979870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to hit #esoteric to see what the ping's about < 1457736023 63050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit the nick box instead, which is right above it < 1457736035 89008 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, XC_kitchen_sink. As a joke, doh. < 1457736054 561759 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Yes you did tell me that one already, it may be added on < 1457736085 674476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: basically, the input is infinitely long (in my construction; unbounded input would do to explain the situation though) < 1457736092 859434 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or XC_and_a_kitchen_sink < 1457736101 34583 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :As 255 < 1457736120 562380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you can encode arbitrarily many different computations in the input < 1457736126 12816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that may be the other idea I suppose < 1457736141 522787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no "distance of information propagation" limit in Turing machines in general or in this one in particular < 1457736169 595991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a limit to how much information you can store in a given length of tape, obviously, but you just use longer and longer sections of the tape as the calculation goes on < 1457736281 394070 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People often talk about minimalist computers (e.g. Turing, Minsky, Kolmogorov) < 1457736287 140670 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of a "Minimalist OS" though < 1457736293 952098 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing Elm docs for divide : Rational -> Rational -> Rational from a Ratio package I found: < 1457736297 226021 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Division. It's sort of like multiplication! < 1457736406 9411 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because it's true. < 1457736431 594268 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see an OS written for a ~slightly-~extended TM < 1457736567 15762 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are Forth-based operating systems, and I would want to have a simple Forth-based operating system for portable computer that also does SSH with Plan9 forwarding and one-time-pad encryption < 1457736603 236111 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to draw the kitchen sink icon? < 1457736620 590903 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hex (09A-F) alphabet, two unbounded integer registers < 1457736632 530473 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yesss. So true, but so useless. < 1457736685 977673 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe 16, not sure yet < 1457736703 655259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When dealing with fractions, yes it is also multiplication similar to division too < 1457736707 638649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Forth OS is pretty minimalist < 1457736714 211789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, zzo38 said that already < 1457736714 563616 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457736720 96544 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean one that runs on a minimalist machine < 1457736731 929967 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1457736735 476447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a category of OSes than anything else, though, it's /so/ minimal that you end up writing your own code to fill in the gaps, so different ones end up different < 1457736739 106421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ah right < 1457736740 875866 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be implying a contour. < 1457736755 956874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementing processes in esolangs often isn't too hard < 1457736761 506773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with round-robin preemption < 1457736762 846727 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every node can have a small ASM program (lencapped at somewhere from 1 to 8 instructions) that manipulates the state < 1457736787 476538 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assume it's impossible to write a low-level OS in Haskell. Am I correct? < 1457736815 136436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: probably not, one of the general rules with Haskell is that you can do hyperefficient things if you /really/ want to < 1457736822 542114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the program you write will no longer look anything like Haskell < 1457736828 99825 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1457736865 990151 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions for the minos machine can do things like move you on the tape (absolutely or relatively), input and output data (somehow), etc. < 1457736955 923626 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1457736960 793234 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a kitchen sink in profile < 1457736962 933204 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be easy < 1457737135 886249 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/83f4b00cbc70758214339acfb813abade1b849aa.png < 1457737138 943805 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly something like this. < 1457737171 844270 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an idea for a somewhat funny educational document < 1457737197 83016 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fake catalog advertising abstract machines as if they were real devices to buy and use < 1457737490 120154 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457737541 377852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457738537 58186 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/1002/ < 1457738549 966276 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arimaa and Go are being solved before Poker? < 1457738554 301096 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/40505.html ... when will we see pirate blinkenlights installations? < 1457738668 973377 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457738892 264349 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and the outcome of sending a constant stream of "Set room lights to full" and "Open curtain" commands at 3AM seems fairly predictable." < 1457738917 387313 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way to get them to start doing meaningful security. < 1457739038 864889 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqukfchzbmnaquol QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1457739213 218576 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust die < < 1457739215 690650 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_die: 0.0 < 1457739805 696318 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-amogajhmjxxpgpov JOIN :#esoteric < 1457739957 707198 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what does solving Poker really mean... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cepheus_%28poker_bot%29 is close to optimal (in the game theory sense) strategy in the two-player version of Texas hold'em, but it doesn't do any opponent modeling or exploitation of weaknesses. < 1457740029 28444 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_poker_players which lists some other interesting programs... < 1457740153 249664 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding players makes this problem harder (and subject to collusion, hmm) < 1457740250 511833 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wo < 1457740251 562088 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow* < 1457740258 420525 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switching my version gatherer to use git-hg instead of hg directly < 1457740276 100916 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speeds up the version gathering to ~1-3 minutes rather than >10 minutes. :/ < 1457740427 859940 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of versions are you gathering? < 1457740762 778928 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust programs < 1457740770 260037 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking through the whole revision history