00:00:09 oerjan: Yeah, but it'd be nice 00:00:47 `culprits wisdom/fnord 00:00:49 int-e ais523 oerjan 00:01:14 `` sed -i 's/paran/paren/' wisdom/fnord 00:01:17 No output. 00:01:52 that's badly capitalized too 00:06:40 hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with the Warren Abstract Machine hth (i'm not really) 00:08:11 oerjan: I've heard of it, but don't remember it being abstract 00:08:49 looks pretty officially abstract imo 00:21:38 what was the language whose programs build a ring (i guess?) called? <-- capra i think 00:22:06 *cabra 00:22:26 except it's only semi- 00:22:34 sounds right 00:23:04 ah, burro is what i looked for 00:28:40 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 00:29:28 oerjan: It would be pretty cool to see a useful language whose programs form a mathematical-in-nature structure 00:32:36 -!- p34k has quit. 00:38:21 hppavilion[1], what do you even mean by that 00:38:40 Phantom_Hoover: Like cabra 00:45:19 Uh. Is it... normal for no-compete clauses to be in event waivers for attending an event? 00:45:23 Because that seems bizarre 00:45:35 well that's the very narrow niche of cpressey's ventures into algebraic structures on programs 00:46:44 which didn't get very far, imo, because he defined his algebras on programs up to computational equivalence, which is an incredibly nasty relation if you're looking at most nontrivial classes of program 00:51:37 Sgeo_: ????? 00:51:58 The "Camp No Counselors Waiver and Release of Liability" contains this clause: 00:52:12 "9. I further agree that I will not directly or indirectly engage in any business that competes with Camp No Counselors, or solicit any person working on behalf of Camp No Counselors for any business that directly or indirectly competes with Camp No Counselors, for a period of three years following the Camp No Counselors event. " 00:52:30 that's pretty unusual and probably unenforcable 00:54:03 I feel like I should hold off registering, though 01:02:05 Sgeo_: I think it's prohibiting you from starting a competitor, not from joining a competitor's camp 01:02:14 Sgeo_: So you don't steal their ideas :P 01:05:11 Still seems like a bit of a harsh restriction just from going once 01:05:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:24:46 as I said, radix sort is O(n log k), where k is the maximum value of the things you're sorting <-- i recall from when reading about one of edwardk's experiments that sorting is actually O(n) if you interpret n as total input memory in bits. 01:25:01 A sign extend operation: x-=(x&s)<<1; 01:25:12 (his experiment was generalizing radix sorting to arbitrary data structures, i think) 01:25:55 (Where "s" is a number only with the sign bit of the input format set) 01:26:12 that is, if you consider the size of the integers you sort as irrelevant except for their contribution to total memory 01:27:26 https://hackage.haskell.org/package/discrimination 01:28:45 zzo38: so (x&s) is either 0 or -1 01:28:59 (-1)<<1 is undefined in C but -2 in two's complement? 01:29:04 and adding 2 to a number doesn't sign extend it 01:29:06 so I'm confused 01:30:28 No, the "x" is actually of a larger type than the input, but is input and zero extended into "x" initially 01:30:32 ais523: isn't it either 0 or minint? 01:30:44 oerjan: oh right, good point 01:31:02 and INT_MIN << 1 is kind-of awkward to define but is most reasonably defined as 0 01:31:21 As far as C program is concerned, x, s, and (x&s) are all non-negative initially (although the result might be negative) 01:32:47 ais523: AIUI, it's for turning a previously zero-extended value into a sign-extended one. 01:33:12 ah right 01:34:59 <\oren\> isn't INT_MIN << 1 = INT_MIN - 1 = 0b111...110? 01:35:23 <\oren\> oh, wait, never ind 01:35:34 <\oren\> stupid two's complement 01:35:51 <\oren\> INT_MIN = 0b1000...00 01:38:39 \oren\: apparently it is really INT_MIN for a smaller int, cast into the larger one. 01:38:57 *int type 01:44:51 <\oren\> I'm going to color the nonstandard charatcers in my font demo. 01:44:58 <\oren\> What color should they be? 01:45:29 What, precisely, do "over" and "under" mean in math? I know what context they're used in and can often guess which one's right, but I don't know their strict definitions 01:46:13 <\oren\> over is how you pronounce a fraction bar 01:46:19 <\oren\> never heard under 01:47:49 \oren\: No, like "+ forms a group over the reals" 01:47:51 -!- jaboja64 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:49:12 <\oren\> oh. that means that the tuple (+,ℝ) is a group 01:49:45 <\oren\> a group is a tuple of a operation and a set 01:49:54 \oren\: Yes, but what are the definitions of "over" and "under" 01:49:57 \oren\: I know what a group is xD 01:50:27 an operation is over a set if it is closed in it, i guess 01:50:48 myname: Then why do we say "closed over x" 01:50:54 myname: Why not just say "is over x" 01:51:18 myname: I think operations and functions are just always "over" values 01:51:24 That is probably the definition 01:51:28 Though I could check ##math 01:52:13 Checked 01:53:35 <\oren\> Dad says "+ is over ℝ" means the domain of the two operands is ℝ 01:54:46 <\oren\> you could also have a function f(x,y) "over ℝ and ℂ" meaning one operand is real and the other complex 01:58:55 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to realdonaldtrump. 02:01:06 -!- realdonaldtrump has changed nick to Elronnd. 02:02:45 <\oren\> 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 02:04:53 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:04:59 \oren\: All functions are closed over 𝕍. True fact. 02:07:27 (I think we should define ALL the bb letters) 02:08:08 𝔹𝔹 is the set of bitmaps describing blackboard bold letters. hth. 02:08:22 `unidecode 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 𝐓𝐑𝐔𝐌𝐏 02:08:24 [U+1D413 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL T] [U+1D411 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL R] [U+1D414 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL U] [U+1D40C MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL M] [U+1D40F MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL P] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+1D413 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL T] [U+1D411 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL R] [U+1D414 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL U] [U+1D40C MATHEMATICAL BOLD C 02:09:27 𝕩𝕚 is the set of imaginaries produced from 𝕩 02:09:43 "Make Blackboard Bold Great Again" 02:10:16 \oren\: Think we need a `bb command for that? 02:14:40 -!- yorick has joined. 02:14:40 -!- yorick has quit (Changing host). 02:14:40 -!- yorick has joined. 02:18:48 <\oren\> 𝔸𝔹ℂ𝔻𝔼𝔽𝔾ℍ𝕀𝕁𝕂𝕃𝕄ℕ𝕆ℙℚℝ𝕊𝕋𝕌𝕍𝕎𝕏𝕐ℤ 02:18:51 <\oren\> 𝕒𝕓𝕔𝕕𝕖𝕗𝕘𝕙𝕚𝕛𝕜𝕝𝕞𝕟𝕠𝕡𝕢𝕣𝕤𝕥𝕦𝕧𝕨𝕩𝕪𝕫 02:18:54 <\oren\> 𝟘𝟙𝟚𝟛𝟜𝟝𝟞𝟟𝟠𝟡 02:19:00 <\oren\> hfwt 02:19:46 Nice 02:20:11 f(x, y) if over ℝ, and under 𝔽𝕚ℝ𝕖. 02:20:36 <\oren\> Oh yes, and the new version is out, featuring capital cursive and lowercase cursive, in the right codepoints 02:20:53 <\oren\> 𝒜ℬ𝒞𝒟ℰℱ𝒢ℋℐ𝒥𝒦ℒℳ𝒩𝒪𝒫𝒬ℛ𝒮𝒯𝒰𝒱𝒲𝒳𝒴𝒵𝒶𝒷𝒸𝒹ℯ𝒻ℊ𝒽𝒾𝒿𝓀𝓁𝓂𝓃ℴ𝓅𝓆𝓇𝓈𝓉𝓊𝓋𝓌𝓍𝓎𝓏 02:22:21 Very nice 02:22:44 I love the lowercase blackboard e :D 02:23:20 *subtle* 02:23:32 -!- boily has joined. 02:23:33 aesthetic 02:23:44 prooftechellonique. 02:23:50 Helloily! 02:26:22 I think over refers to the domain of a function and under refers to its range. 02:26:39 Hm... 02:26:43 Consider list theory 02:27:13 Pure lists, specifically. One might call it ZFl or ZFCl 02:27:33 How would one optimally define numbers with it? 02:28:11 The first way that comes to mind is f(n)=[[]]*n, where * is the bounded repetition (repn) operation 02:28:37 hppavilion[1]: Like |z| is a function over ℂ and under ℝ. 02:29:16 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 02:29:41 The way more similar to the standard set definition is f(n)=[f(n--)], where -- is of course predecessor 02:29:52 lambda-11235: Interesting... 02:30:13 lambda-11235: Unless, of course, you include sgeoids 02:30:21 -!- lynn has joined. 02:30:33 I definitely read that as Zermelo-Flaenkel 02:30:42 Wait, no, then it's still under ℝ 02:30:58 In fact, |z| isn't under ℝ, it's under ℝx>=0 02:31:15 prooftechnique: Read what as Zermelo-Flaenkel? 02:31:19 ZF? 02:31:25 Zfl 02:31:27 Ah 02:31:28 *ZFl 02:31:42 <\oren\> ZFl 02:31:49 prooftechnique: One of the things I think math needs is a mathematical definition of naming things 02:32:14 m("Gaussian"++x) = m(x)+m(x)i 02:32:41 m("Gaussian real") = ℂ 02:32:49 (Maybe it should be a capital M?) 02:33:04 <\oren\> ℨ𝔢𝔯𝔪𝔢𝔩𝔬-𝔉𝔯𝔞𝔢𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔩 02:33:22 he\\oren\. 02:33:44 (that porthello was typeset in fraktur, but I'm too lazy for that, so please imagine it is.) 02:33:55 <\oren\> 今ボアリは 02:34:59 <\oren\> 𝔥𝔢\\𝔬𝔯𝔢𝔫\ 02:35:01 prooftechnique: What I'm getting at is I want a function oe(n, s, d) that returns the optimal encoding of n as an element of s where lists can be of depth d 02:35:14 And is defined for all n in s 02:35:27 Hmm 02:35:33 `thanks \oren\ 02:35:34 Thanks, \oren\. Thoren\. 02:35:40 Where s is N, Z, R, C, etc. 02:35:48 <\oren\> ℑ 𝔣𝔬𝔯 𝔬𝔫𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔦𝔫𝔨 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯 𝔩𝔬𝔬𝔨𝔰 𝔡𝔦𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔫𝔤𝔲𝔦𝔰𝔥𝔢𝔡 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔫𝔬𝔟𝔩𝔢. 02:35:52 (You can pattern match, and probably have to for those sets) 02:36:10 (So really, you're defining 4+ related functions that with the same name and one fixed argument) 02:36:51

hppavilion[1]: Like |z| is a function over ℂ and under ℝ. <-- i don't recall any such thing. "over" and "under" as hppavilion[1] describes applies to algebraic structures, not just any functions. 02:36:53 prooftechnique: We can assume tuples are just length 2 lists and sets are just lists where we ignore ordering 02:36:58 Okay, so what does "optimal" mean? 02:37:34 prooftechnique: You can define the standard operations (+, -, *, /) with it and it uses the least number of empty lists 02:37:37 <\oren\> 𝔈𝔵𝔠𝔢𝔭𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔨 𝔦𝔰 𝔱𝔬𝔬 𝔪𝔲𝔠𝔥 𝔩𝔦𝔨𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔱. 02:37:43 the reals are a group under addition, addition forms a group over the reals. 02:38:18 So optimality([]) = 1, optimality(l) = sum([optimality(i) for i in l]) 02:38:23 and underlying set functor is a technical term, the right adjoint to the free structure. 02:38:34 optimum = min(encodings) 02:38:36 What's the EgoBot command that spits out the unicode info? 02:38:44 prooftechnique: unidecode? 02:38:50 `unidecode ⓚ 02:38:51 `help uni 02:38:51 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:38:51 [U+24DA CIRCLED LATIN SMALL LETTER K] 02:38:53 helloily 02:39:01 `unidecode 𝓀 02:39:04 quinthellopia. 02:39:04 [U+1D4C0 MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT SMALL K] 02:39:10 bonne nuitopia! 02:39:14 you arent sokay 02:39:15 prooftechnique: You can use multiple characters with unidecode 02:39:18 night 02:39:32 Oh, neat. Thanks. 02:39:39 But also, \oren\, see above 02:39:50 `unidecode ⓚ 𝓀 02:39:53 [U+24DA CIRCLED LATIN SMALL LETTER K] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+1D4C0 MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT SMALL K] 02:39:57 also, i recall we pronounced binomial coefficients as "n over k", that's a different but similar use as fractions... 02:40:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: YEARLY CHICKEN). 02:41:51 oh and another use: R^n is a vector space over the reals. then it's not the same as the underlying set. 02:41:58 oerjan: Never heard that 02:43:11 <\oren\> Oh, yeah I havent removed those yet 02:44:26 `help uni <-- HackEgo 02:44:38 's help command takes no arguments. 02:45:27 Figured as such 02:45:38 -!- izabera has changed nick to izy. 02:47:09 <\oren\> 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔄𝔖 𝔄 𝔅𝔈𝔄ℜ. 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 ℌ𝔄𝔇 𝔑𝔒 ℌ𝔄ℑℜ. 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔄𝔖𝔑'𝔗 𝔙𝔈ℜ𝔜 𝔉𝔘ℨℨ𝔜 𝔚𝔄𝔖 ℌ𝔈? 02:47:21 AAAAAAAA 02:47:39 i cannot read that. anyway, food -> 02:48:20 That was very hard to read 02:48:25 <\oren\> 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔞 𝔟𝔢𝔞𝔯. 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔥𝔞𝔡 𝔫𝔬 𝔥𝔞𝔦𝔯. 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔞𝔫'𝔱 𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔶 𝔣𝔲𝔽𝔽𝔶 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔥𝔢? 02:48:37 <\oren\> wait wtf happened there? 02:48:43 That's a very good question 02:49:31 `unidecode 𝔽 02:49:32 [U+1D53D MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL F] 02:50:25 <\oren\> fúźźý wúźźý wáś á béáŕ. fúźźý wúźźý hád ńő háíŕ. fúźźý wúźźý wáń't véŕý fúźźý wáś hé? 02:51:29 -!- izy has changed nick to izabera. 02:51:36 <\oren\> ¿ǝɥ sɐʍ ʎzznɟ ʎɹǝʌ ʇ,usɐʍ ʎzznʍ ʎzznɟ ˙ɹıɐɥ ou pɐɥ ʎzznʍ ʎzznɟ ˙ɹɐǝq ɐ sɐʍ ʎzznʍ ʎzznɟ 02:52:52 I just realized that my definition of optimality makes it so f(0) = [], f(n) = [P(n)] 02:53:36 prooftechnique: New definition of optimality: optimality([]) = 1, optimality(i:l)=1+optimality(i)+optimality(l) 02:53:51 Then again, the old definition only works when d=infinity 02:54:10 And the numbers are the naturals 02:54:17 Hmm 02:54:40 But still, if d is finite then you just output the list as a sum of nested lists of max depth d 02:54:43 Held in a list 02:54:52 <\oren\> `unidecode ɟʍʎ 02:54:53 [U+025F LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS J WITH STROKE] [U+028D LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED W] [U+028E LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED Y] 02:55:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:56:57 hppavilion[1]: I honestly don't follow what you're going for. Can you show a worked example of expected output for some input? 02:57:25 prooftechnique: I don't either; the goal is to figure out what the expected output is 02:57:44 ƒบzzγ พบzzγ พαร α вεαя. ƒบzzγ พบzzγ нα∂ ท๑ нαïя. ƒบzzγ พบzzγ พαรท'т νεяγท∂บzzγ, พαร нε? 02:58:12 All right, so say I want to optimally encode 4 in ℕ. 02:58:32 What's the limit on the list depth? 02:59:04 prooftechnique: I'm going for a function enc(n, S, d) that takes a number n that is a member of S, a set S which is from some finite collection of sets (probably N, Z, Q, R, or C), and a maximum list depth d (which is, of course, natural) 03:00:35 Okay, so given 4 in ℕ and setting d to 4, what's our encoding? 03:00:47 It should then return a list which is equal to n encoded optimally into a list of maximum depth d- one where +, -, *, and / can be defined- where the maximum list depth is d and it works for all S. 03:01:01 Does it just look like [[],[],[],[]]? 03:01:12 prooftechnique: I would guess [[[[]]]] 03:01:27 Mine has optimality 4, whereas yours is 5 03:01:42 Gah! Again, I hit the the-answer-is-fucking-obvious-moron barrier! 03:01:44 I think 03:01:55 Yeah, pigeonhole principal 03:02:25 prooftechnique: I give up. Have any idea how to encode arbitrary reals as lists? 03:02:33 Optimality be damned? 03:02:43 I don't think your definition of optimality works the way you think it does 03:02:55 Or I just don't understand your notation 03:02:59 well, define some way of a comma 03:04:07 ah, easy 03:04:31 (length of numbers before comma, [numbers]) 03:04:39 there's your real 03:04:51 hppavilion[1]: You can Church-encode the reals, so that might get you somewhere 03:05:05 where positions might be made by (value, position) 03:05:17 prooftechnique: What do you not get? Or I don't get? 03:05:21 of course (a, b) is just [[a, b], [a]] 03:05:52 myname: Comma as in a decimal point? 03:05:59 yeah 03:06:20 myname: Oh, (a, b) is just [a, b] in theory 03:06:35 if [] are ordered, yes 03:06:45 myname: YES! THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT! 03:06:46 you don't need the fancy positioning then 03:07:20 yo 12,345 is [2,[1,2,3,4,5]] 03:07:27 there is your real 03:07:28 myname: What if n=pi? 03:07:44 hppavilion[1]: define pi as a real 03:07:48 myname: I do 03:08:02 go for it 03:08:21 give me your definition of it 03:08:52 myname: Of what, precisely? 03:08:54 Of pi? 03:08:58 Not sure yet 03:08:59 You have optimality [] = 1; optimality (x:xs) = 1 + optimality x + optimality xs, which doesn't typecheck, if I follow your notation 03:09:00 in other words: how do you define pi without using pi in the reals? 03:09:22 myname: Oh, you want pi without pi? tau/2 obviously 03:09:25 Kidding, kiddin 03:09:26 g 03:14:02 🙃 03:16:07 myname: How about... pi=4*summ([1:inf{2}), x) 03:16:13 I got that from a taylor series online 03:16:47 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:16:57 (that first argument to summ is an interval with a skip) 03:17:17 (Wait, no, it's not quite that 03:17:59 pi=4*(1+summ(x=[3:inf{2}), -1/x)) 03:18:04 summ is, of course, summation 03:18:07 there you go, define addition and multiplication on your [] thingie 03:18:17 myname: Yep 03:18:19 Sounds about right 03:18:29 myname: It's just a haskelly list, but nestable 03:18:31 hth 03:18:46 And pur 03:18:46 e 03:18:56 setler killed all the impure sets 03:19:15 Dammit, that expression was wrong too 03:19:27 It's not n-m-o-q-p, it's n-m+o-q+p 03:19:35 MUCH harder to summation 03:19:42 no 03:19:57 myname: Really? 03:21:07 it's pi=4*(1+summ([3:inf{2}), (-1)^x/x)) 03:21:19 Oh, I suppose you could turn step up to 4 and replace 1/x with 1/x+1/(x+2) 03:21:44 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 03:21:45 https://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/30001.1-3.shtml says otherwise 03:22:02 oh, wait 03:22:10 not ^x 03:22:16 because your sum is stupid 03:22:41 myname: It's the best I could do without latex 03:22:55 And even if I had latex, I'd need google because I don't latex very often 03:23:01 myname: It's stupid, but it works 03:23:27 pi=4*(summ([0:inf), (-1)^x/(2*x+1)) 03:23:28 Apparently 03:23:36 OK, that works too 03:24:02 Here's a cool feature all low-level languages should have 03:24:06 <> function call notation 03:24:14 f(*a) 03:24:21 It allows you to choose the return type 03:24:31 Allowing multimethods for output, too 03:24:37 (return type must be directly specified) 03:25:26 (Also, must be defined, though languages should be able to guess return type if they're similar but this specific type is undefined- e.g. float -> double 03:25:31 ) 03:25:51 What would be good for a low-level language that hasn't been done yet? 03:30:05 -!- ^v^v has joined. 03:30:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:30:12 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:30:42 @sassages-loud 03:30:42 oerjan said 1d 1h 37m 54s ago: My neural net thinks there's a historical language called Middle Worse. <-- PLAUSIBLE 03:31:27 -!- XorSwap has joined. 03:35:55 tswett: What would be good for logic programming? Any ideas? 03:36:24 Preferably something fairly minimal 03:42:02 Logical-event maybe? 03:44:03 Hmmm. 03:44:59 One might say I spend a lot of time trying to come up with "low-level" stuff. 03:45:41 Look at, say, Al Dente, and tell me that's not low-level. 03:47:03 (You might describe Al Dente as a low-level logical-event language...) 03:48:12 whoa whoa whoa 03:48:17 @mesdames-loud 03:48:17 You don't have any messages 03:48:22 oerjan hasn't used that one yet 03:52:48 @meddaged 03:52:48 Unknown command, try @list 03:53:02 @xessaxes 03:53:02 You don't have any messages 03:53:18 @pulp 03:53:18 Maybe you meant: pl help 03:53:27 @whelp 03:53:27 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 03:53:28 `le/rn middle worse/Mïðal VVőrszü vvoràði nyëlv spöket af magyar inva̋ðerek Herefördshirben 03:53:31 leszármazott 03:53:34 argh 03:53:37 Learned «middle worse» 03:53:41 stupid newline paste 03:54:07 I can't read that. 03:54:38 `lastfiles 03:54:40 wisdom/middle worse 03:54:48 `mkx bin/sedlast//sed -i "$1" "$(lastfiles)" 03:54:54 bin/sedlast 03:55:01 `cat bin/mkx 03:55:02 key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key" 03:55:35 `cat bin/mk 03:55:35 [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key" 03:55:40 `le/rn middle worse/Mïðal VVőrszü vvoràði nyëlv spöket af magyar inva̋ðereknek leszármazottok Herefördshirben äppröxima̋tely 1250. 03:55:44 Relearned «middle worse» 03:56:02 I still can't read that. 03:56:13 excellent! 03:57:34 tswett: imagine hungarians inexplicably invading herefordshire some time before 1250 hth 03:57:50 Kokogadene. 03:58:48 tswett: google translate can't read that 03:58:56 although it thinks it's japanese 04:12:59 `le/rn middle worse/Mïðal VVőrszü vvoràði nyëlv spöket af magyar inva̋ðereknek leszármazottai Herefördshirben äppröxima̋tely 1250. 04:13:03 Relearned «middle worse» 04:22:12 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:24:13 Japanese is the most accurate guess as to what language that is. 04:24:25 I just realized that the term "Video Graphics Array" doesn't really make sense. 04:24:35 "Video graphics"? Isn't that what "video" means? 04:26:37 <\oren\> as opposed to text graphics 04:26:50 <\oren\> like the block and line charatcers 04:29:48 Yeah, but why not just "video array"? 04:29:55 Is it simply because that's too short? 04:30:01 (Which, mind, is a perfectly good reason.) 04:31:27 I guess to fit in with CGA and EGA 04:31:51 <\oren\> Maybe "video" refers to a greater refresh rate? 04:33:16 deltab: that makes sense. 04:33:30 What type of graphics does this thing provide? Text graphics? Nope, this thing provides video graphics. 04:35:39 -!- treaki_ has joined. 04:35:51 CGA and EGA were both 60 Hz 04:37:01 maybe the 256 color registers with 262,144-color global palette 04:37:51 @so !haskell (\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))"@so !haskell (\\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))""--"-- 04:37:51 .hs: 1: 1:Parse error: ! 04:39:35 -!- treaki__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:39:36 Now, the Game Boy has a CPU clock speed of 4.19 MHz, and a frame rate of 60 Hz. The screen size is 160 * 144. That means that the number of clock cycles per pixel-frame is... 04:39:45 > 4190000 / (60 * 160 * 144) 04:39:46 3.0309606481481484 04:39:57 About 3. That's not very many. 04:41:16 Does that mean that if you're, say, walking around a map, then a very large percentage of the CPU is spent simply updating the screen? 04:41:46 I don't think you'd have the CPU update each pixel separately 04:44:37 Hmm. Looks like it had something to do with tiles and sprites. 04:44:43 @list so 04:44:43 No module "so" loaded 04:44:47 @help so 04:44:47 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 04:45:08 Interesting how older computing technology is occasionally quite a bit more complicated than the newer stuff. 04:45:13 Like, the overall complexity has only increased. 04:45:38 But there are certain problems where the simple solution works nowadays, but wouldn't have worked back then, because of the computing resources required. 04:45:57 yeah 04:46:30 Like, what form does computer audio take nowadays? A big list of millions of numbers. 04:46:37 and some things are reversed: palette cycling was easy and cheap on systems using color register, but nowadays you'd have to update each pixel 04:47:32 What was it way back when? You'd have a few different synthesis things and some kind of code controlling them, I dunno. 04:47:39 people have done that in web browsers by changing the palette bytes in a PNG and redisplaying it 04:48:08 @so 04:48:08 Error: expected a Haskell expression or declaration 04:48:20 yep, various waveform generators: square, sawtooth, noise, sine if you were lucky 04:48:21 @soh 04:48:21 Maybe you meant: yow src show do 04:48:46 @so x >>= \a -> b 04:48:46 do { a <- x; b} 04:48:52 Yes if it is a indexed color PNG then you can easily do that 04:49:37 (With any program that can display PNG, including but not limited to web browsers) 04:50:20 you can, but to display it means the program has to decompress the whole image again, render it to a buffer, and copy the buffer into the screen buffer 04:50:46 changing color registers was just a few writes 04:50:59 hardware did the rest 04:51:06 Yes, even on Famicom you can change the colours by hardware 04:52:10 but that went when 16, 24, 32-bit color came along 04:52:18 @so fmap f a 04:52:19 fmap f a 04:52:35 @so fmap f . fmap g $ a 04:52:35 fmap f . fmap g $ a 04:58:45 the GameBoy had hardware scrolling, tiles, an overlay window, sprites, and four wave generators: http://fms.komkon.org/GameBoy/Tech/Software.html 05:00:18 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 05:00:39 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 05:07:36 The X window system does support having different depths and visuals and stuff and both read/write and read-only colormaps, decomposed and together; however which ones are supported depends on the X server in use (some might not support palettes, while on some others it might be read-only, too) 05:08:08 If computer hardware were made that supported all of these modes then the program could too 05:08:34 * deltab nods 05:42:37 -!- variable has joined. 05:46:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:50:04 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:52:31 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:56:49 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split). 05:56:49 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 05:56:50 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 06:02:47 -!- lynn has joined. 06:02:47 -!- yorick has joined. 06:02:47 -!- puckipedia has joined. 06:09:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:11:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:48:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:10:46 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split). 07:10:46 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 07:10:46 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:28 -!- diginet has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 07:17:18 -!- diginet has joined. 07:21:32 -!- lynn has joined. 07:21:32 -!- yorick has joined. 07:21:32 -!- puckipedia has joined. 07:28:27 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 07:29:31 <\oren\> well, at least my whining to the unicode mailing list brought their attention to the fact that there's no standard machine readable documentation which lists all the characters in each "math variable alphabet" 07:30:16 <\oren\> instead it's only listed in the notes in the character list pdf. 07:31:37 Write one yourself if you need it, and publish them as public domain 07:33:34 <\oren\> that's sort of what I've done on my fontdemo page. 07:39:02 Sgeo_: yes, that looks like a strange restriction to me. 07:43:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:47:20 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split). 07:47:20 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 07:47:20 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 07:54:40 -!- lynn has joined. 07:54:41 -!- yorick has joined. 07:54:41 -!- puckipedia has joined. 08:51:13 -!- earendel has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:55:29 Quick 08:55:36 Somebody define high-phenated 08:59:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:33 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:14:57 -!- olsner has joined. 09:23:09 hppavilion[1]: is it possible to get tswett's etymology bot to produce definitions too? 09:28:53 fungot: Define high-phenated. 09:28:53 fizzie: but that's only to be used so rarely? :p. ugh i need to do pages that look suitable for a srfi. 09:29:08 Apparently it's not worth defining, it's too rare. 09:38:58 `? phenate 09:39:11 phenate? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 09:45:12 hppavilion[1]: If you're high-phenated, you are phenated on an elevated level, a level above the regular sort of phenation one gets at phenation clinics. If you're low-phenated, you've actually been deprived of phenation, probably also at a phenation clinic, though people do sometimes de-phenate themselves using various tools such as hammers and chainsaws. 09:45:37 fungot: What does "phenate" mean? 09:45:38 zgrep: this particular professor was very interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then maybe näppärä would be fingery" or something 09:45:46 o.o 09:45:53 Whoa 09:46:02 That started out coherent and a bit horrifying 09:46:13 fungot: Are you actually from the future? 09:46:13 fizzie: if you can hang around in the scheme world certainly seems hard. 09:46:41 I think I figured out how wormholes work 09:46:44 I'm guessing "ancient concept called a newspaper" is a verbatim quote. And "näppärä" is Finnish. 09:46:58 Ah 09:47:29 2007-11-06 04:58:06 you might be interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then 09:48:19 fungot: do you mean to imply that you're from the scheme world, but that world is now of the past only? 09:48:20 b_jonas: add another zero in there. the generally preferred method of development is not entry level developer 09:49:10 fungot: we're not supposed to get code written by replacable code monkeys? we've been doing this all wrong then! maybe that's why the application never seems to work. 09:49:10 b_jonas: it would be lumpy from the star wars trilogy are among my favorite movies, but the throughput doesn't grow equally. 09:49:32 fungot: is lumpy the ninth elf? 09:49:32 b_jonas: s/ at/ in/, though. 09:49:47 yeah 09:52:18 -!- mtve has quit (Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0). 09:55:25 -!- lynn_ has joined. 09:56:01 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:03:57 -!- lynn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:08:52 fizzie, do you run zemhill? 10:09:27 Yes, if you can call it that. 10:09:44 (As in, I haven't touched it in a long while.) 10:10:08 Can you take a look at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/hill.git/ and see what's up with it? 10:10:38 All the objects are clearly there, but, master seems to be attached to an older commit for some reason 10:10:48 (When you clone it) 10:11:05 What's up is that I forgot to set up that post-update hook (for update-server-info) you need for the "dumb HTTP" serving mechanism to work right. 10:11:39 I was this close: || ... to actually doing that the other day, then got distracted by a shiny object. 10:11:45 Let's do that now. 10:13:15 Done. Also ran it once for good measure. Doing a pull now should work. 10:13:34 (Hopefully.) 10:13:52 opps 10:14:25 Is fixx 10:14:55 The shorter it takes to fix something, the longer I procrastinate with it. 10:15:27 fungot, help fizzie fix those hooks already 10:15:27 b_jonas: ( a real mathematical function!) from the sorting package) with modified structures. 10:15:53