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00:03:55 <boily> `relcome Lilly_Goodman
00:04:13 <HackEgo> Lilly_Goodman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:04:16 <boily> and where's that Spanish version again...
00:04:21 <boily> `welcome.es Lilly_Goodman
00:04:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.es: not found
00:04:27 <boily> `bienvenido Lilly_Goodman
00:04:34 <HackEgo> Lilly_Goodman: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
00:08:09 <int-e> olsner: I'll stop digging... that "alot" link came after the "alot" entry in bin/list (later to become bin/slist)... reading logs I believe Bike added el liot to that list against his wishes and oerjan defused it (in a private message, 2 days later).
00:09:13 <int-e> (this kind of archeology is fun but takes too much time...)
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00:12:54 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Probably because of the massive botnet I'm subhosting through it
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00:27:23 <boily> hppavellon[1]. b_jonas says "argh"?
00:27:56 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Yeah, b_jonas is a pirate. Did you not know?
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00:32:14 <boily> b_jonas: b_jellonaaaaaarghs.
00:32:27 <boily> hppavilion[1]: somebody you know?
00:33:29 <boily> hppavilion[1] (~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net) a quitté (Quit: Connection reset by Pierce)
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01:26:25 <HackEgo> precision/78.75211317% of the time precision is totally overrated.
01:27:02 <HackEgo> Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something.
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01:27:26 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe.
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01:53:22 <Anarchokawaii> has anyone ever thought of making a scope oriented language
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01:58:26 <\oren\> maybe I should add phoenician
01:59:42 <\oren\> no i apparently speled it right the first time
01:59:53 <\oren\> it's just a weird looking word
02:02:09 <\oren\> scope oriented? what would that mean?
02:03:08 <Anarchokawaii> would be oriented about which scope something is in
02:03:50 <Anarchokawaii> i just think it kinda is annoying that you are limited to 3 scopes in most programming languages
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02:21:32 <zzo38> What would the other scope be?
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02:27:37 <Anarchokawaii> like if you had some like : if(if(if(if()))). you could make the variable using in the first and third if statements
02:29:53 <Kaynato> had some fun :) https://i.gyazo.com/8433cd03d9dcefe42e89123c3d8af385.png
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02:33:25 <zzo38> I suppose the syntax highlighter does not work with trigraphs?
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02:56:53 <rdococ> Anarchokawaii: why not make scopes the reason the language is TC?
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02:57:41 <zzo38> rdococ: If there is a way to do that, then OK
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03:42:40 <zzo38> BlooP/FlooP is still just as powerful if the IF command is removed
03:43:14 <Kaynato> The last obfuscation couldn't run with -O3 enabled! I touched it up and now it's good https://i.gyazo.com/83683468854e449240973064166db01b.png
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03:59:43 <izabera> does anyone know the gif format well enough to write a gif mostly by hand?
04:00:02 <izabera> http://giflib.sourceforge.net/whatsinagif/bits_and_bytes.html i'm reading these docs and some things are confusing
04:00:51 <izabera> like, what's the difference between the color resolution and the size of the color table? :\
04:00:57 <izabera> in their example it's the same value
04:01:00 <zzo38> I don't know it well enough, although I have once written a program to alter the palette of a GIF picture
04:01:49 <izabera> i'm just writing a program to generate a gif from a go match
04:02:33 <quintopia> izabera: i suppose one could write an uncompressed gif by hand, but i aint gonna try to get optimal lzw compression with mental math :p
04:02:54 <izabera> well i'll do uncompressed first
04:03:57 <izabera> surely it won't take too much space anyway, it uses like only 3 colors and at most ~300 frames
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04:11:54 <quintopia> if i wanted to generate go gifs from move lists
04:12:20 <quintopia> because it is easy to output animated gifs
04:13:49 <izabera> but i want to do it by hand :3
04:14:09 <izabera> like learning purposes i guess
04:14:23 <quintopia> by typing bytes into a text editor one by one?
04:14:57 <izabera> just generating them will be fine
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04:16:30 <izabera> i already have a way to do it, with a program called sgf2misc
04:17:00 <rdococ> you know how there are games of "werewolf" in irc channels?
04:17:00 <izabera> and it outputs separate gif files and you have to create the animation with imagemagick
04:17:16 <rdococ> why hasn't a murder mystery game been ported to irc yet?
04:17:37 <zzo38> You could also to output PNG or Farbfeld, and then combine with ImageMagick (and ffpng if necessary)
04:17:39 <izabera> https://i.imgur.com/9L90oYk.gif sample output
04:18:06 <quintopia> https://github.com/quintopia/gifslideshow
04:19:16 <zzo38> Yes it is big endian, although it can still be use
04:19:51 <izabera> zzo38: too late i've already wrote like 5 lines of code so i have to finish this now
04:20:50 <izabera> and i just downloaded a 3mb gif of quintopia's dog and i'm tethering on my mobile
04:21:13 <quintopia> hope you bought a lot of bandwidth
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04:28:24 <quintopia> izabera: heres a better example at only 80mb! http://rutteric.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/river_crossing.gif
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04:30:17 <quintopia> dolphin crashes trying to load and display it
04:32:05 <quintopia> izabera: heres a small one showing all the frames of the gif blended together: http://rutteric.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/action_river_crossing.png
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05:42:33 <lambdabot> boily said 7h 44m 34s ago: hellørjan.
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06:08:32 <pikhq> Hum. There's actually an SSH client for DOS.
06:08:39 <pikhq> This oddly doesn't surprise me.
06:14:43 <oerjan> Kaynato> May be of interest: http://phys.org/news/2016-03-language-cells.html <-- definitely suspicious about the date, here
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07:43:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46739&oldid=46737 * Oerjan * (+2) Tone marks, just because
08:16:44 * oerjan thinks his brain won't understand Daoyu on the first few iterations.
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09:22:00 <Taneb> If a language is 1-dimensional textually but 2-dimensional conceptually
09:22:22 <Taneb> Should it be categorized as "Two-dimensional languages"?
09:23:39 <ais523> Taneb: see how I categorised Formula :-D
09:24:33 <Taneb> The language I'm thinking about is COMPLEX, which I need to finish the article for but is described on my esolangs page
09:24:37 <ais523> more seriously, Paintfuck fits your description and doesn't seem to be categorized as multi-dimensional
09:25:06 <ais523> I'd call COMPLEX two-dimensional
09:25:13 <Taneb> Instructions are conceptually laid out on a grid but written sequentially with line numbers describing their location a la BASIC
09:26:28 <Taneb> I feel like COMPLEX is the language of mine I'd have the easiest time writing a compiler for
09:28:10 <Taneb> I might give it ago after my exam on the 15th
09:28:25 <ais523> well, the physical order of the source doesn't matter, right?
09:28:37 <ais523> just like you can line-permute a BASIC program and it doesn't change the meaning
09:29:22 <Taneb> I ran the example program through shuf
09:29:48 <Taneb> Is this a "syntax is the least important part of a language" situation?
09:31:01 <ais523> I think so, unless you're trying very hard to make it relevant
09:31:10 <ais523> (which in this case you might be; I'm not sure)
09:31:45 <Taneb> The syntax was where I started with the language
09:31:59 <Taneb> I wanted BASIC but with complex line numbers, and a way to make them useful
09:32:31 <Taneb> And then I added features until I thought it had enough features
09:32:41 <Taneb> And then I removed GOTO because I realised it wasn't necessary
09:33:25 <Taneb> That's basically how the language happened
09:34:50 <Taneb> I mostly did it to see how easy it was to use Alex and Happy for lexing and parsing in Haskell
09:35:31 <Taneb> (the answer is "easier than I expected, and for this an awful lot easier than parsec"
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10:11:37 <rdococ> ugh, I'm trying this old "mirc" client again because I want to make an IRC bot and I'm too lazy to use anything that's actually remotely useful
10:17:33 <rdococ> ais, I'm not actually using it right now
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13:08:20 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
13:08:24 <boily> I'm out of coffee!
13:28:10 <int-e> must be a glitch in the matrix -- watch out for agents!
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13:38:09 <\oren\> boily: quick , to the national coffee repository in Alert!
13:41:33 <boily> Alert is far, and cold, and I need to take a shower, and...
13:42:10 <boily> I'll simply go to that new hipster café on the corner.
13:43:02 <boily> all because my favourite place to get freshly ground beans is closed on Sundays.
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14:11:32 <\oren\> I prefer Italian coffeeshops
14:12:05 <\oren\> mostly for familiarity
14:13:15 <\oren\> I wonder where the Georgian alphabet came from?
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14:17:07 <b_jonas> \oren\: someone saw the rich history of the {Phoenician, Greek, Coptic, Latin, Blackletter, Old Church Slavonic, Russian, Serbian} family of alphabets, with all the crazy variants of cursive writing that gave rise to different sets of lowercase letters, and decided to one-up it,
14:17:14 <b_jonas> just to show that he's the best conscripter ever.
14:18:03 <b_jonas> \oren\: and they hid a lot of evidence to fool archeologists that it has a two thousand year old history, plus mind controlled ten thousand people to start teaching it.
14:18:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: She probably also saw the Armenian alphabet, and correctly figured out that that's the *wrong* way to create an alphabet not derived from phoenician.
14:21:25 <Taneb> That does not render for me
14:22:27 <Taneb> I went to look at the alphabet on Wikipedia
14:22:29 <\oren\> I recently noticed that my font is missing some Georgian letters
14:22:45 <Taneb> It looks... influenced by Cyrillic/Greek/Latin
14:23:39 <\oren\> yah, armenian looks like alternate-universe latin or something, while georgian looks like nothing I can describe
14:24:12 <b_jonas> Taneb: the typography of Georgian is influenced a lot by Greek, Latin, Cyrillic, whereas Hebrew and Arabic and Braille and the American Sign Language fingerspelling have completely different typographical conventions from Latin.
14:25:00 <Taneb> \oren\, Georgian and Burmese I get mixed up
14:25:11 <b_jonas> Taneb: However, the letter shapes of Georgian aren't derived from Phoenician, Greek, Latin etc, whereas the letter shapes (and alphabetic order where approperiate) of Hebrew, Arabic, and some of european Braille and ASL fingerspelling _are_ derived from it.
14:25:29 <b_jonas> The typography and the letters are two different dimensions.
14:26:04 <\oren\> Taneb: ooh, interesting
14:26:31 <Taneb> I'd be extremely surprised if they share a common influence, though
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14:28:17 <\oren\> ⤴⤵⤶⤷ <- unicode doesn't appear to have the reverses of any of these arrows
14:28:27 <b_jonas> And just like how Latin and Cyrillic had tons of different historical variants that look unlike each other at first, Georgian does too.
14:28:53 <Taneb> I do find it interesting that Hangul (Korean alphabet) was designed specifically and intentionally to be easy to learn
14:29:21 <int-e> \oren\: it would be fun if LTR/RTL switched the directions of arrows
14:30:41 <HackEgo> Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo.
14:31:58 <int-e> duck typing is a survival competition involving typewriters on a shooting range
14:32:13 <b_jonas> `slashlearn duck typing/Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo.
14:32:24 <HackEgo> Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo.
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14:33:46 <int-e> Duck typing is the art of telling apart members of the anatidae family.
14:36:42 <\oren\> I can't even teel the difference between geese and swans
14:37:32 <Taneb> \oren\, you should go to the other York University
14:37:40 <Taneb> We've got thousands of the blighters
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14:38:20 <\oren\> the best I can do in identifying them is "look it's a big duck"
14:38:51 <Taneb> (you are at York University, Toronto, right? Or am I getting you mixed up?)
14:39:09 <\oren\> you're getting me mixed up with my dad
14:39:23 <Taneb> I knew there was a connection
14:39:33 <Taneb> I'd like to visit, mostly to annoy my friends at uni
14:39:46 <Taneb> I'm a student at University of York, York
14:40:30 <\oren\> my dad has gone to University of York, deliberately to cause confusion
14:41:02 <Taneb> There's one person in the computer science department here who is apparently a professor at both
14:42:01 <Taneb> https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~paige/
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14:49:10 <HackEgo> York used to be known as Amsterdam.
14:49:28 <b_jonas> I assumed he meant a professor of both computer science and some other science.
14:49:39 <b_jonas> Like mathematics or birdology.
14:50:27 <int-e> surely you mean numerology
14:50:49 <b_jonas> No, birdology. The science of duck typing.
14:52:01 <Taneb> b_jonas, both universities, I should have been clearer, sorry
14:53:09 <int-e> the "at" should've been enough of a hint
14:55:04 <Taneb> int-e, not necessarily, one can be an attorney at law
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14:55:28 <Taneb> I wouldn't be surprised if there was an English dialect wherein one could be a professor at computer science
14:56:19 <b_jonas> maybe I didn't read careful enough to pick that up, or maybe I just don't read English well enough to pick that up
14:56:39 <int-e> "Usually, if born in a multiple-of-12 year, like 1980, you’re a Monkey."
14:57:24 <b_jonas> This interpretation game can be much funnier when you read an unclear sentence in an old book where you can't ask the writer, and try to figure out what he meant by grammatical nuances
14:57:58 <b_jonas> I played it at http://french.stackexchange.com/q/12410/6114
14:59:02 <Taneb> int-e, Chinese zodiac?
14:59:10 <Taneb> I'm year-of-the-dog, I think
15:00:06 <int-e> wtf, https://missashleyfirstgrade.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/prepositions.png
15:02:46 <int-e> And yes, Chinese zodiac. I was curious what the animal of the year is.
15:03:25 <b_jonas> int-e: that reminds me to bonsaikitten
15:04:23 * int-e is failing to parse "bonsaikitten" as a verb
15:04:46 <b_jonas> `learn Bonsaikitten is the cat typing behind the glass of the CRT when you run the cat command.
15:04:51 <HackEgo> Learned 'bonsaikitten': Bonsaikitten is the cat typing behind the glass of the CRT when you run the cat command.
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15:10:29 <int-e> so apparently there's a german punk rock band called "Bonsai Kitten" ... inspired by the hoax, of course.
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16:18:45 <\oren\> prepositioning is the art of placing troops in strategically advantageous places efore the outbreak of conflict. Joseph Stalin was total fail at this.
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17:10:07 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> olsner: I'll stop digging... [...] <-- pretty much as i remember it, anyway.
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17:43:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Merthese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46740&oldid=40960 * 50.160.119.44 * (+70) Add Tari's LLVM-backed compiler
17:45:22 * oerjan saw this in norwegian and managed to google the english version http://www.gocomics.com/wumo/2016/03/28
17:47:42 <oerjan> (oh and it's political hth)
17:54:51 <boily> a race of Trump hairdos? what next will come out of Norway...
17:55:11 <oerjan> boily: denmark, actually
17:55:34 <oerjan> <\oren\> I work at Soundhound <-- you should design a digital duck whistle for Taneb twh
17:56:16 <oerjan> actually, soundhound should be something that can track ducks by sound.
18:00:05 <fizzie> SoundHound's Android app has annoying notifications.
18:00:48 <oerjan> <Taneb> I'm year-of-the-dog, I think <-- hey me too! that means you're 24 years younger than me hth
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18:11:52 <HackEgo> [U+26E8 BLACK CROSS ON SHIELD]
18:12:32 <\oren\> hmm is that a unicode symbol for crusades?
18:12:51 <oerjan> you'd think that should be red cross
18:14:28 <oerjan> hm knights templar seem to be red, while knights hospitaller are white on black
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18:19:58 <oerjan> \oren\: oh, the teutonic order is black on white. not quite the same style though.
18:24:01 <boily> 24? aren't there only twelve Chinese zodiac signs?
18:24:48 <oerjan> boily: yes, but i don't think Taneb is 12 years younger than me.
18:25:13 <oerjan> or 36, for that matter.
18:26:32 <boily> one never knows! Tanebiology is a weird domain.
18:26:51 <boily> also, any other dragons in this chännel?
18:26:59 <int-e> twist: Taneb is 24 years older than oerjan and has been fooling us all about his age.
18:28:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/thanks ants \ wisdom/thausiblee \ wisdom/the \ wisdom/thé \ wisdom/the meaning of life \ wisdom/the neverending work \ wisdom/theory \ wisdom/the question \ wisdom/the reals \ wisdom/the them \ wisdom/the torus \ wisdom/the u \ wisdom/the universe \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/things boily likes \ wisdom/thirt \ wisdom/this \ wisdom/this sentenc
18:28:18 <HackEgo> A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.
18:28:31 <HackEgo> Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
18:29:18 <oerjan> `learn Caffè is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in Italy.
18:29:25 <HackEgo> Learned 'caffè': Caffè is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in Italy.
18:30:40 <\oren\> I have no idea if there is a difference between é and è or what that difference might be
18:30:59 <int-e> è is much more grave.
18:31:02 <\oren\> To me they're all "e with a thingy on top"
18:31:50 <\oren\> I can tell the difference between e with a thingy and e with two thingies on top though
18:32:19 <b_jonas> \oren\: but they're completely different things! the grave accent is what Italian uses to mark the stressed syllable, the acute accent is what Russian uses to mark the stressed syllable. Isn't that obvious?
18:32:34 <ais523> I'm trying to work out what circumstances in which the name "thausiblee" would be useful
18:32:45 <ais523> "thausible" is mostly used for hypothetical actions, right?
18:33:04 <ais523> it means that ignoring practical implications, there isn't an obvious reason why the action couldn't be taken
18:33:15 <ais523> so is "thausiblee" for hypothetical situations too?
18:33:51 <\oren\> speaking of accents why does ÿ exist?
18:34:18 <\oren\> does german umlaut y into like a u or something
18:34:43 <ais523> "replacing someone's brain with a brick is difficult, but if you're talking about placing a brick in their stomach, person X would make a good thausiblee"
18:35:11 <b_jonas> \oren\: I think the y with umlaut is messed up in my font
18:35:53 <b_jonas> \oren\: and it exists but it's VERY RARE. like, it occurs in French place names and other proper nouns that they didn't want to spell normally, just for the kicks. there's no point to actually have that letter, compared to y
18:36:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NetBytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46741&oldid=46728 * Iconmaster * (+200) Added the connection stack. I think it's necessary for any interesting computational class.
18:37:07 <ais523> could it be used as a diaresis?
18:37:15 <ais523> when vowel-y immediately precedes another vowel?
18:37:21 * ais523 tries to think of a word where that happens
18:37:46 <b_jonas> hmm, ỳ and ý and ŷ are messed up too
18:38:19 <b_jonas> ais523: what diphtongue would that prevent?
18:38:39 <boily> \oren\: ÿ exists in French for extremely uncommon village names hth
18:38:40 <ais523> I'm not sure if there are any dipthongs that start with y
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18:39:32 <ais523> hmm, how is "ayy" (as in "ayy lmao") pronounced?
18:39:34 <boily> é represents a é sound, where è is è hth
18:39:36 <ais523> in particular, is it a tripthong?
18:40:04 <b_jonas> ais523: I think it would be the same as ay
18:40:27 <b_jonas> ais523: that is, probably something like /ɛi/ or /ei/
18:40:37 <ais523> b_jonas: in which case, a ÿ would be theoretically useful in the sequence aÿy
18:40:45 <boily> \oren\: /lai.lɛ.ʁoz/
18:41:01 <ais523> because it'd be pronounced as ay-y, not ayy
18:41:03 <iconmaster> Of course, I also pronounce "lmao" like "luh-mouh", so don't trust me here.
18:41:06 <b_jonas> ais523: would it make multiple /i/ sounds one after the other? I don't think that's actually a pronunciation distinction they pronounce
18:41:18 <b_jonas> wait, let me look up, there are conjugated verbs with "ii" in the written form
18:41:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mychal * New user account
18:41:39 <boily> b_jonas: in French? yes, there are.
18:41:43 <b_jonas> also, there was a relevant entry on David Madore's blog with a word that he thinks should be spelled with ö
18:42:03 <b_jonas> (which is not a letter than normally exists in French)
18:42:32 <ais523> b_jonas: ay-y where the second y is a consonant, as opposed to ayy which is one vowel
18:43:43 <ais523> like, say you pay someone in yams
18:43:45 <b_jonas> ais523: /i/ is either a vowel, or a semi-vowel spelled /j/, which is just /i/ but shorter. I don't think /ij/ would be distinguished from /i/ thus.
18:43:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FISHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46742&oldid=46267 * Mychal * (+1843) Added Kotlin implementation
18:43:59 <ais523> those would be paÿyams, whereas "payyams" might be pronounced "paiams"
18:44:09 <\oren\> I thought ayy was pronounced like the letter A as /ej/
18:44:44 <b_jonas> ais523: hmm, you might be right
18:45:10 <b_jonas> ais523: https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Conjugaison_en_fran%C3%A7ais/rire says riiez is pronounced /ʁij.je/
18:46:01 <b_jonas> well, I never really understood how the french semi-vowels are supposed to work
18:46:19 <\oren\> maybe the /i/ is a bit more toaward /ɪ/ and glides up toward /i/?
18:46:38 <\oren\> and they write that as /ij/
18:46:52 <b_jonas> I pretend they're just variants of vowels that the linguists invented to claim that the two meanings of "suis" are distinguished in pronunciations
18:47:12 <oerjan> <b_jonas> is this about thaums <-- no, we're just splitting hairs. at least in the realities that survived, hth.
18:49:23 <oerjan> * ais523 tries to think of a word where that happens <-- cyanide hth
18:49:45 <ais523> oerjan: doesn't really work because "ya" doesn't have a pronounciation as a single vowel
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18:54:17 <b_jonas> ah, found it! it's http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2012-08-07.2061.html#d.2012-08-07.2061 and it's even more ridiculous than I remembered
18:55:06 <b_jonas> he suggests the spelling “arguë́”, with an e with diæresis and acute accent, as well as “arguöns” with an o with diæresis
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19:02:22 <b_jonas> (he also suggests a new grammatical tense for verbs, and I know way too little about the already existing grammatical tenses in French to be able to make sense of what that even means)
19:16:39 <oerjan> for actions that are _quite_ finished.
19:17:17 <oerjan> wait, composter doesn't mean that in french?
19:19:28 <oerjan> hm wiktionary is _very_ confusing on the issue.
19:20:10 <oerjan> ah french wiktionary is better, it does mean that too.
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20:00:50 <hppavilion[1]> I have a theory about time travel in (this) universe
20:01:05 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: is the theory that it's impossible?
20:01:06 <hppavilion[1]> I call it the "Continuational Theory of Temporal Anomalies"
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20:01:43 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: My theory goes that, when the proper conditions arise, a new sort of particle is created
20:01:51 <hppavilion[1]> This particle is called the "Continuation Particle"
20:02:07 <hppavilion[1]> The continuation particle drifts through the universe like any other particle
20:02:35 <hppavilion[1]> Except, when it interacts in the proper way with another particle (probably getting close enough)
20:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> The universe reverts to the moment that the continuation particle was created
20:03:06 <hppavilion[1]> And everything continues the same way, EXCEPT that the continuation particle is replaced with the particle it collided with
20:04:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
20:04:46 <HackEgo> call-with-current-continuation? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:04:56 <ais523> we all know what call/cc does anyway, or should
20:05:10 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, but that's the perfect opportunity for a call/cc joke
20:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Sort of like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation
20:06:04 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: this is how time travel works in Feather
20:15:07 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn lisp/(eq "lisp" (proglang-with (use-lots ["(" ")"]) (paradigm functional) (notation-type prefix)))
20:15:16 <HackEgo> (eq "lisp" (proglang-with (use-lots ["(" ")"]) (paradigm functional) (notation-type prefix)))
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20:15:38 <ais523> does proglang-with autoquote its arguments?
20:16:37 <ais523> I considered that but decided it was excessively Java
20:16:52 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: And proglang-with combines those attributes to yield a programming language
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20:18:22 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: (paradigm x) and (notation-type x) are actually semi-sugar for dictionary lookups
20:18:31 <ais523> yes but you're still writing a function that returns data values that are then used to construct an object
20:18:40 <ais523> in other words, you have a factory attribute factory
20:19:19 <ais523> I'd just have added a few apostrophes
20:19:31 <ais523> or written it as cons cells
20:19:56 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn lisp/(eq "lisp" (proglang-with '(use-lots ["(" ")"]) '(paradigm functional) '(notation-type prefix)))
20:20:35 <HackEgo> (eq "lisp" (proglang-with '(use-lots ["(" ")"]) '(paradigm functional) '(notation-type prefix)))
20:21:22 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn python := ProgrammingLanguage(plattrs['WHITESPACE_SENSITIVE
20:22:35 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn python/python = ProgrammingLanguage(attrs=[plattrs['WHITESPACE_SENSITIVE'], plattrs['INTERPRETED'], *plparadigms['IMPERATIVE', 'FUNCTIONAL']])
20:22:48 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn python/python = ProgrammingLanguage(attrs=[plattrs['WHITESPACE_SENSITIVE'], plattrs['INTERPRETED'], *plparadigms['IMPERATIVE', 'FUNCTIONAL']])
20:22:55 <HackEgo> python = ProgrammingLanguage(attrs=[plattrs['WHITESPACE_SENSITIVE'], plattrs['INTERPRETED'], *plparadigms['IMPERATIVE', 'FUNCTIONAL']])
20:23:31 <hppavilion[1]> And plparadigms[x, y] is nice because it demonstrates the use of the __getitem__ method for custom objects
20:23:48 <Taneb> oerjan, that'd make you... 45?
20:24:37 <int-e> I hate it when X11 breaks.
20:25:05 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs.
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20:25:27 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn_append brainfuck/bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang
20:25:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'brainfuck': brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang
20:25:34 -!- totally_heddwch has changed nick to shikhin.
20:26:47 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 20: unterminated `s' command
20:26:57 <hppavilion[1]> `` sed -i "s/mklang/mklang_arry/" wisdom/brainfuck
20:27:13 <b_jonas> well, someone did make a trivial brainfuck substitution generator once
20:27:38 <hppavilion[1]> `` sed -i "s/mklang_arry/mklang --array" wisdom/brainfuck
20:27:39 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 28: unterminated `s' command
20:27:57 <hppavilion[1]> `` sed -i "s/mklang_arry/mklang --array/" wisdom/brainfuck
20:28:06 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
20:28:22 <hppavilion[1]> Note that the `bf` command is, of course, a brainfuck interpreter
20:28:45 <hppavilion[1]> The -c flag obviously interprets its argument directly, and -t makes it return its tape
20:29:04 <shachaf> Why are you doing these things to the wisdom database?
20:29:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm making definitions of languages in the languages themselves
20:29:46 <oerjan> Taneb: excellent arithmetic would buy again
20:30:15 <shachaf> Maybe put those somewhere else? They don't really fit in.
20:30:15 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: brainfuck had to be *nix'd though, because it doesn't have support for the libraries that would be necessary for this
20:30:46 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Well, it started with lisp, because lisp didn't have a wisdom entry
20:31:06 <HackEgo> (eq "lisp" (proglang-with '(use-lots ["(" ")"]) '(paradigm functional) '(notation-type prefix)))
20:31:26 <Taneb> oerjan, sorry for the slow response, I was having an accidental nap then getting a drink of water and otherwise not paying attention to IRC
20:31:52 <Taneb> oerjan, when is your birthday?
20:32:46 <int-e> . o O ( after christmas )
20:33:22 <oerjan> i was born on a perfect day hth
20:33:29 <ais523> oerjan: the 6th and/or 28th?
20:34:14 <oerjan> it could only go downhill from there, really.
20:34:17 <rdococ> I forgot how to list all the channels I havr egistered
20:34:44 <rdococ> wow, shachaf was born on tau day?
20:35:03 <rdococ> who's the one who was born on a perfect day?
20:35:03 <ais523> rdococ: /ns listchans is the closest I can see
20:35:14 <int-e> That may be the best argument pro tau that I've seen so far.
20:35:21 <ais523> look for channels where you have +F permission
20:35:24 <shachaf> please see the two words preceding "born on a perfect day" hth
20:35:27 <oerjan> int-e: well it doesn't work on me
20:35:50 <shachaf> oerjan: presumably you were born on 496-06-28
20:36:08 <shachaf> so all will be right again on 8128-06-28
20:36:34 <int-e> tsk, what was I thinking... Channel #realworld created Tue Dec 29 05:00:21 2009
20:37:15 <rdococ> oerjan was born on tau day omg
20:37:37 * oerjan swats rdococ again for good measure -----###
20:37:37 * rdococ slaps oerjan with a trout ><>
20:38:09 <oerjan> shachaf: maybe not _that_ perfect.
20:38:40 <rdococ> I'm testing a new bot I just made, using a terrible scripting language - you get three guesses as to what it is
20:39:03 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Maybe rdococ just has absurdly short scrollback?
20:39:28 <int-e> rdococ: php, lua, javascript, ruby... oops.
20:39:29 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: nah, I was typing as I was reading
20:39:39 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That would mean they couldn't see "I was born on a perfect day"
20:39:52 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: but they responded to that comment
20:40:04 <rdococ> I was just reading while I typed it
20:40:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, but they may have read it and then forgot who sent it
20:40:31 <Taneb> oerjan, I was born on a prime day
20:40:50 <rdococ> no, I didn't read the part about oerjan until it was too late
20:40:53 <oerjan> well we now have proof rdococ is not a goldfish, since goldfish have reasonably good memory hth
20:41:15 <rdococ> oerjan: what? I didn't forget anything...
20:41:20 <rdococ> int-e: nope, evener worser
20:41:24 <oerjan> rdococ: that's what you think
20:41:28 <int-e> (impossible, sadly)
20:41:36 <rdococ> int-e: so mSL is better than dc?
20:41:42 <Taneb> Conclusion: rdococ is actually a goldfish?
20:41:51 <int-e> (at least as far as I can see, dc cannot parse arbitrary input)
20:41:52 <rdococ> why would I be a goldfish?
20:42:05 <rdococ> int-e: MSL IS BETTER THAN SOMETHING?!
20:42:35 <rdococ> as I was saying, I'm testing my new murder mystery game on ##murder
20:43:15 <int-e> rdococ: to be fair, dc wasn't designed to be a scripting language
20:43:25 <rdococ> mSL wasn't either by the looks of it
20:43:34 <rdococ> it has the weirdest syntax
20:45:26 <Taneb> rdococ, use Awk instead
20:46:31 <rdococ> I hope I don't give people the wrong impression by calling my murder mystery game bot murderbot
20:46:40 <rdococ> it just got disconnected
21:09:23 <oerjan> what was the quit message
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21:41:39 <fungot> That Pong alone cannot stop!
21:41:50 <ais523> that… is not what I was expecting
21:41:54 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
21:42:00 <fungot> (That Pong alone cannot stop!)S
21:42:09 <ais523> well, that's the obvious way to write it in fungot
21:42:09 <fungot> ais523: i have only seen the movie yet, but the result will come out first :) i am happy that you seem to prefer to use plain 32-bit rgb values
21:42:15 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball rreree rerere botsnack bf
21:42:34 <ais523> hmm, 32-bit rgb, what are the other 8 bits? 2⅔ bits for each channel? alpha? gamma?
21:42:37 <b_jonas> help, fungot is making sense!
21:42:37 <fungot> b_jonas: right click and choose a simplistic implementation ( conses or vectors) you'd need 3 primitives. the word " fry" makes me nervous!!
21:43:03 <b_jonas> ais523: 8 unused values usually; or 10+12+10 bits for rgb
21:43:05 <int-e> fungot: would you prefer to be boiled?
21:43:05 <fungot> int-e: you guys ever considered the concept, whereas partial continuations refers to the same port) or just use pastebin? can i borrow it?
21:43:13 <ais523> b_jonas: why does the green get more bits?
21:43:33 <ais523> is it just because it's double 5:6:5?
21:43:35 <int-e> fungot: no, that thought had not occurred to me
21:43:36 <fungot> int-e: here's the problem with that is you need to use set-car! and set-cdr! too. i tried ( set!...
21:43:46 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:43:54 <ais523> right, that's what I thought it was
21:44:00 <ais523> fungot's irc style normally produces the best results
21:44:00 <fungot> ais523: the bash scripts in the language
21:44:26 <ais523> now I'm wondering what esoteric subsets of bash exist
21:44:30 <ais523> there's ddsh, at least
21:44:40 <ais523> which the author of CLC-INTERCAL has used as an esolang
21:44:57 <b_jonas> ais523: green matters more for the human eyes, that's why it gets more bits. but 8 bits for each of rgb and 8 unused bits is much more common
21:46:32 <ais523> b_jonas: right, this is something I discovered during the palette tests
21:46:49 <b_jonas> ais523: one esoteric subset of bash is bash without execing anything else
21:46:52 <ais523> dark greens are easier to see than dark reds or blues at a similar brightness
21:46:59 <ais523> thus darker colours are more usable with green
21:47:05 <b_jonas> people implement stuff in that sometimes, even when it doesn't make sense
21:47:13 <ais523> b_jonas: ddsh is basically that, except a) you can exec dd, and b) you can only use the subset that exists in sh
21:47:14 <b_jonas> (sometimes it can make sense, when forking and execing is slow)
21:47:28 <fizzie> It's strange, because the irc style's also one of those I trained using my own, very crude fixed-length n-gram model collector, instead of the VariKN toolkit I used for most of the rest.
21:47:31 <hppavilion[1]> I'm implementing a BF interpreter and compiler, and I want the standard getch()-style input because it's better than buffering
21:47:32 <rdococ> I swear my internet just stopped for a minute
21:47:52 <oerjan> rdococ: mine too, if you mean irc
21:47:55 <fizzie> On the other hand, it's also much larger than the other styles.
21:48:01 <oerjan> and it's the second time
21:48:02 <hppavilion[1]> But I also want it to be able to set the input to a file instead of the stdin
21:48:02 <rdococ> oerjan: no, everything else
21:48:13 <b_jonas> fizzie: oh, being bigger helps a lot
21:48:19 <hppavilion[1]> And if it's a file, it will work the same but read from the file
21:48:28 <rdococ> oerjan: wait, you mean it did take a whole minute for another person to say something?
21:48:35 <hppavilion[1]> But python has the stdin AS a file, so I cannot distinguish them
21:48:45 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
21:48:46 <hppavilion[1]> But I want to, because if they're- oh, I think I know nhow
21:48:52 <fizzie> That one's approximately the same size.
21:49:03 <fizzie> And I like it quite a lot, although it's pretty predictable.
21:49:03 <rdococ> internet's broken, but irc is fine?
21:49:19 <fizzie> fungot: What's your take on the migrant crisis?
21:49:20 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, mrs cerdeira morterero' s report takes the same line, which caused such an uproar and upheaval that there are many, the people who suffer distress or die, and indirectly through greater transparency, even in the european union
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21:51:38 <oerjan> rdococ: it was more that a lot came through at once.
21:52:20 <rdococ> oerjan: nah, what happened was that the game I was playing froze - I could still move or jump or stuff, but everyone was walking in place, then eventually, it disconnected
21:52:47 <oerjan> <rdococ> internet's broken, but irc is fine? <-- DNS trouble?
21:53:14 <rdococ> I'll use Window's terrible diagnosis thing
21:53:32 <oerjan> although that _shouldn't_ matter for an ongoing game unless it's badly written?
21:54:01 <oerjan> DNS should only matter if you need to make new connections
21:54:25 <rdococ> are you saying that if I disconnect from this irc server, I won't be able to reconnect?
21:54:37 <rdococ> that makes sense about something that happened a few years ago
21:54:52 <rdococ> chrome mentions the dns
21:54:54 <rdococ> "DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN"
21:54:59 <oerjan> it's happened to me before.
21:55:17 <rdococ> the game was multiplayer
21:55:24 <oerjan> if so, try setting your DNS to something wellknown like 8.8.8.8
21:55:33 <b_jonas> fizzie: retrain it with even more irc data! and train one from the lolcat bible
21:55:53 <oerjan> that's one of google's
21:56:22 <oerjan> rdococ: can you open web pages, or are you still having trouble?
21:57:15 <b_jonas> oh, is this the kind of problem where you have to hope you're not disconnected from irc because you wouldn't be able to disconnect?
21:57:28 <rdococ> reconnect*? if so, yes
21:57:30 <b_jonas> rdococ: turn off "Work offline" in the File menu
21:58:01 <rdococ> it's chrome, it has no file menu
21:59:26 <rdococ> it is that kind of problem
21:59:45 <rdococ> disconnected and tried to reconnect my bot
22:00:27 <oerjan> it's not in the browser
22:00:35 <oerjan> but i'm having trouble refinding it
22:00:51 <rdococ> no, I mean, it might have a file menu
22:01:16 <fizzie> You can try opening a site by IP to verify whether it's indeed DNS trouble. Say, navigate to http://178.62.79.47/ in Chrome.
22:02:14 <fizzie> Then the 8.8.8.8 trick is likely to work, but I can't really comment on how to set it in Windows, I'm sure they've moved the setting around in every version of it.
22:02:36 <oerjan> i found how to display what the DNS server is, but not how to set it. i'm on W10
22:02:45 <fizzie> Well, I've got a page.
22:02:45 <rdococ> tell me how to display it
22:02:50 <fizzie> "This article will advise how to change your computer's IP address and DNS servers on Windows 8. This article applies to any version of Windows 8."
22:02:55 <fizzie> It has a lot of screenshots.
22:03:12 <fizzie> Well, they're mostly blue. There's a nice picture of a daisy as a background.
22:04:11 <rdococ> come on, it shouldn't take that long, and I'm worrying
22:04:12 <fizzie> The screenshots go Control Panel -> "Network and Sharing Center" -> "Change adapter settings" -> right-click on the network -> Properties -> Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCIP/IPv4) -> Properties -> "Use the following DNS server addresses".
22:05:33 <oerjan> i didn't try to click on the Internet Protocol item
22:06:18 <fizzie> (Interestingly enough, the top hit for me for "windows 8 set dns server" -- the page I was quoting from -- was from the support site from the ISP I'm using. I wonder if that's just targeted ranking, or if they're just that good.)
22:06:22 <oerjan> so it works in Windows 10 too
22:10:31 <Taneb> Can anyone think of a stupider sounding maths word than "clopen"?
22:11:44 <coppro> not off the top of my head
22:11:48 <coppro> but I feel like I've encountered some
22:16:44 <Taneb> rdococ, it comes up in topology which has technical definitions for closed and open sets
22:16:49 <Taneb> That aren't mutually exclusive