< 1460160001 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: basically I decided that a population of 170 was too big to store it all as data < 1460160073 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm AMA should be beginning now < 1460160157 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1460160183 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/4dyros/im_david_morganmar_author_of_darths_droids_and/ < 1460160417 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I set up NNTP server and client on this Linux? < 1460160490 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a1 ... am (b1 ... bn c) = fmap (a1 ... am) (b1 ... bn) c. so if you can handle fmap (a1 ... am) you can handle the former. but the latter is fmap^{\circ n-1} fmap a1 ... am . < 1460160531 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*m < 1460160534 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1460160570 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus by induction you can handle any application of anything you can handle. < 1460160610 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460160644 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm formulating an idea for an Esolang that could actually be of use to someone < 1460160650 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What idea is it? < 1460160683 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A language based entirely on lazy-evaluated sequences < 1460160751 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Maybe sort of like Haskell, but the "Functions always return the same value for the same arguments" requirement would be dropped in favor of "Functions are lazily-evaluated sequences of values" < 1460160812 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Designing an example < 1460160821 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let dash = dot dot < 1460160822 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1460160858 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats shachaf. In the face. With a chair.
< 1460160866 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1460160870 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't do that. < 1460160931 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Too late. < 1460160937 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's also vectorized. < 1460161163 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a speculative example: http://pastebin.com/h3n9xdS6 < 1460161201 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x, y, z] creates a new literal lazy < 1460161212 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> passes the previous lazy to the next lazy < 1460161220 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{} vectorizes its contents < 1460161233 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: don't complain, it was just an act of chairity < 1460161257 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, I even let shachaf keep the chair < 1460161277 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't appreciate what you're doing and you should stop. < 1460161363 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460161390 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, lambda-11235! < 1460161405 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Hello < 1460161414 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellambda-1123581321 < 1460161434 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Given the latter part of your nick, I'm making a language that may be of interest to you < 1460161451 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's the weakest reasoning I've ever spewed) < 1460161459 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Oh? < 1460161498 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All languages are of interest to me. < 1460161499 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: It's based entirely on feeding lazy-evaluated sequences into iterators to make NEW lazy-evaluated sequences < 1460161505 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Fair enough < 1460161515 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Java < 1460161575 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: People think Java is a language? < 1460161622 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language and a VM and a security model and a browser plugin < 1460161625 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a library < 1460161633 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of these things work better than others < 1460161781 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's also a drink. I personally only use the VM and the library. < 1460161947 0 :bennyZ!~ben@p2003007A0A455F30E41DCFFEDDA1F32E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1460161955 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truth machine now available @ http://pastebin.com/h3n9xdS6 < 1460162022 0 :bennyZ!~ben@p2003007A0A455F30E41DCFFEDDA1F32E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART #esoteric : < 1460162155 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : at this point it's almost worth banning the username fragment, lots of Spanish-speakers using canaima seem to end up here when they shouldn't be for no obvious reason <-- i've been tempted. < 1460162186 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know you discussed it earlier < 1460162193 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the redirect-ban actually makes a lot of sense < 1460162201 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd need a good description in the target channel < 1460162224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : lambda-11235: Given the latter part of your nick, I'm making a language that may be of interest to you < 1460162231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making a language based on 11235? < 1460162265 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It was very weak reasoning < 1460162282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you didn't mean 'former' < 1460162285 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It can construct infinite fibonacci sequences. < 1460162291 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 11235 =! fibonacci < 1460162309 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=! is equals, of course; not !=) < 1460162319 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "of course" is part of the name) < 1460162332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought you were referring to the lambda bit < 1460162374 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: It reminds me a little bit of https://github.com/matz/streem. < 1460162407 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, chemistry homework, gotta do that. < 1460162428 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Really, it's just https://docs.python.org/2/library/itertools.html in the form of a programming language < 1460162498 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: darn, can't stop: http://sprunge.us/QVMB < 1460162508 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: using 32 threads... wee < 1460162702 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@37.152.222.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: have you still got a few ideas how to reduce it further? < 1460162774 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460162884 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1460162907 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need to find a different approach... < 1460163195 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not very hopeful there... to manage to squeeze in more threads I think I'd have to compress the image data, but any decoding I can think of will need significantly more than 2 instructions per pixel (at least 2 extra instructions, I think)... so I'd need more than 50 threads, and that's optimistic?! < 1460163375 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460164345 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: apparently you got it done in 3.5 instructions per pixel... but that doesn't change the math significantly :) < 1460164436 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460164567 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@37.152.222.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My code will display almost any picture, with any number of colours :-) (and I have code which is a few cycles slower which will display any picture). < 1460164664 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I've just looked at the 0x2E cycle one < 1460164672 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@37.152.222.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I know whatever puzzle the author devises, if it has <=48 pixels it can be solved in <=7 cycles. Otherwise it can be solved in <=0x30 cycles < 1460164720 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0x14-5) * 31 / 170 < 1460164721 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.735294117647059 < 1460164763 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's instructions per visible pixel in my code) < 1460164809 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's some overdrawing and some pixels have to be erased... so it's worse than the optimal 2) < 1460164830 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1460164846 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460164852 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: excellent points. I like the middle one best. < 1460164857 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1460164860 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1460164871 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That reminds me of a joke told by Raymond Smullyan. < 1460165004 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"232a" in https://archive.org/stream/WhatIsTheNameOfThisBook/What-is-the-Name-of-this-Book_djvu.txt < 1460165015 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's not great OCR. < 1460165124 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1460165144 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least there was no drum solo < 1460165281 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460166588 0 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460167290 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460167948 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460168226 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made some fix of Magic: the Puzzling: Codex but do you think it is more better now? Please tell me in case something is still wrong < 1460168309 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460168457 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have decided that, for XML-like data storage, KML is the optimal Markup Language < 1460168531 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it can be different whether you want text marked or data marked, too. < 1460168619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460168675 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/314599/why-is-xml-called-a-language-exactly makes me sad. < 1460168688 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: KML is better no matter what < 1460168698 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: For XML-like uses < 1460168717 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, for mapping data and holding arrays of integers/strings, JSON is better < 1460168725 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is there some other KML I don't know of?) < 1460168730 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some kind of data, INI or JSON or RDF might also help to form such a data. By having a reasonable kind of XML representation of such a data then you can use XSL with it too, although the XML would not be the ordinary representation of the data < 1460168749 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(KML = Knuth Markup Language = TeX's syntax) < 1460168774 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know of any other name for it) < 1460168785 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX supports varying syntax < 1460168822 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is good if you want to process it with TeX, but only TeX can properly parse it < 1460168840 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not PURE TeXian syntax < 1460168845 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But TeX-like syntax < 1460168847 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, you ask? < 1460168879 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because multiple bodies on a tag, plus more TeX in properties (not just a string). That's why. < 1460168905 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\tag[prop]{body1}{body2} < 1460168925 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460168956 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not even require that they are in square brackets; other delimiters are also possible, such as a number terminated by a full stop, or text terminated by a paragraph break. < 1460168960 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When they were inventing the name for XML < 1460168975 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They voted on the name < 1460168992 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second choice- after XML- was MAGMA: Minimal Architecture for Generalized Markup Applications < 1460168996 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's good. < 1460169234 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1460169415 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written some codes in TeX and with that it is possible to see some example of how it can be done. < 1460169430 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can even include chess notations. < 1460169553 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oooh :) < 1460169572 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm trying to think up a new kind of KRF < 1460169616 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSON is for numbers, strings, bools, maps from those to JSON, and arrays of JSON < 1460169625 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is for text that has certain properties applied to subsegments < 1460169693 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is how JSON and XML are good for. < 1460169727 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm trying to find gaps < 1460169735 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Areas where a new language would be good < 1460169778 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSON is fairly limited in scope, but XML isn't good for storing any kind of data other than text, really (because it doesn't syntactically support anything /but/ text and tags) < 1460169809 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For even simpler data than JSON there is INI, and for a more complicated data there is RDF which is even extensible < 1460169849 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say that that's what XML is for. < 1460169863 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course there is also tab-separated values is another format) < 1460169864 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What else is it for? < 1460169874 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: *character-separated < 1460169875 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say XML is for representing data in a way that's both human-readable and machine-readable. < 1460169885 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it *can* be used to represent pretty much any kind of data. < 1460169890 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, but the data it represents is only really good as text < 1460169902 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You can represent non-textual data, but it isn't syntactically shown < 1460169913 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, although it isn't really very good for any purpose other than text markup I think < 1460169931 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: what's a type of non-textual data you're thinking of? < 1460169947 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Well, integers for one are bad in XML < 1460169952 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 is a pain < 1460169968 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml assembly? < 1460169974 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oooh, nice < 1460169988 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. If you're applying XML to something related to integers, you'd probably just put the digits in there and call it good. < 1460169990 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, uh... < 1460169992 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, JSON does it more easily to write numbers (although it doesn't distinguish between integer and non-integer) < 1460170009 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: True, and that's a flaw on JSON's part < 1460170012 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, JSON. < 1460170014 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1460170035 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: "Why are there quotes around a number?" < 1460170038 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem there is that that XML doesn't indicate that the attributes there *have* to be integers. < 1460170039 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In RDF there is representation for any type (and is extensible); the Turtle syntax has a reasonable way to represent both integer and fraction numbers < 1460170047 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. XML tends to be a lot more verbose than JSON. < 1460170083 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Perhaps we need a JSON++ < 1460170116 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSON represents hashmaps and arrays, XML represents trees... < 1460170132 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you know about YAML? < 1460170139 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, right, YAML < 1460170139 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, RDF represent directed graphs < 1460170144 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yep < 1460170165 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a language that represents Rings/Groups/Etc would be nice? < 1460170170 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure mathematicians would love it < 1460170189 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1460170208 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all evil < 1460170221 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-like syntax is usually perfectly fine for representing mathematical stuff. < 1460170228 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: True, true < 1460170251 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What's a good data-y data structure not covered by those? < 1460170280 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labeled directed graphs are sort of like the ultimate data structure. < 1460170281 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables, Ontologies, Matrices < 1460170290 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yeah, they are < 1460170296 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though... I guess there are a lot of things that are "sort of like the ultimate data structure". < 1460170330 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Perhaps a strongly-typed language of some sort? One that forces you to obey a format to prevent errors? < 1460170337 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like JSON with a typechecker < 1460170342 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOM < 1460170346 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm salivating. < 1460170374 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strongly-Typed Data Language. < 1460170383 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yay! < 1460170389 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except call it something punchy. Not STDL. < 1460170424 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The parser would reject the data completely if it doesn't match a strict, dependently-typed format and return None < 1460170440 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or null, or nothing, whatever) < 1460170460 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think we meant statically-typed < 1460170475 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right. < 1460170487 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But it would obviously have dependent types < 1460170504 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ...leading to a second language which expresses the typing < 1460170515 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or better yet, the /same/ language < 1460170584 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What data structures would it support by default? I'm thinking Maps, Objects (named tuples), Lists, Tuples, and Tagged Unions < 1460170590 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes how are you going to do the ring/group/etc? < 1460170596 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinkin'... < 1460170598 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them. < 1460170600 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I discarded that idea < 1460170604 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every data structure that is possible to define. < 1460170611 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So the directed graph then? < 1460170623 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's *one* data structure. < 1460170629 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: *fine* < 1460170637 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What will be the *core* data structures? < 1460170661 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Int, Real, Char, Bool, Top, and Void being the builtin scalar data types < 1460170672 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about... the list. < 1460170683 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is just kind of a fancy list. < 1460170690 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Lisp fans can tell you. < 1460170711 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tuple is just a list with a specific length whose elements have specific types. < 1460170729 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I was going to make lists homogenous < 1460170735 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But that actually makes some sense < 1460170748 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A map is just a list whose elements are 2-tuples whose first elements are never duplicated, and whose order doesn't matter. < 1460170762 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b) = [a, b$] < 1460170777 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your notation here? < 1460170785 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: $ is end-of-list < 1460170793 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it'd be better as [a, b, $] < 1460170807 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If $ denotes the end of the list, what is ] for? < 1460170828 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No, [a, b] means "An infinite a, b list" < 1460170838 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: $ force the list to end at a specific point < 1460170844 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. < 1460170863 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way... < 1460170870 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{A: B} = [(A: a, B: b)] where... something < 1460170875 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a sort of property-based typing. Like... < 1460170878 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... something is valid syntax) < 1460170880 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With RDF it is possible to represent a looping list as well as an incomplete list < 1460170883 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most basic type is, say, "thing". < 1460170891 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: OK < 1460170901 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can make more complicated types. Like "list". And "list of integers". < 1460170905 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, and... < 1460170913 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"list whose first element is equal to its third element" < 1460170919 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oooh < 1460170933 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"list of integers, where each integer is greater than the last" < 1460170948 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Syntax? < 1460170956 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complicated. < 1460170991 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, what have I gotten myself into? :D < 1460171005 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: OK, so the builtin type is "bits", which means "big hunk-o-bits" and the builtin structure is "list of these types" < 1460171025 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, "list of bits" < 1460171033 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1460171054 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ignore my previous 3 messages, the idea sucked < 1460171062 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here's part of my idea. < 1460171094 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic type is, I guess, "thing". < 1460171109 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if you have a "thing", then you don't know anything about it. And since you don't know anything about it, you can't do anything with it. < 1460171125 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :listOfIncreasingValues :: [Int] (a->0>a->1) forall a < 1460171150 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alternatively, s/->/!!/ < 1460171152 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1460171160 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Go on < 1460171177 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't it be similar to a set of integers too? < 1460171179 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a "list of things", now you know that it's a list, so you can do list stuff with it, like getting its length. < 1460171198 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can rearrange it, and stuff. But you can't really do anything with the individual things in it. < 1460171208 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... that's how it all goes. < 1460171219 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, let me see if I can whip something up. < 1460171242 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even in Haskell you can do stuff if you do not know the type of something, but the only way can be done is to match the same type variable such as if it is (x -> x) then you can use the same input as output type. < 1460171265 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, we know about polymorphism < 1460171372 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data IncreasingList where { Empty :: IncreasingList; Cons :: (x :: Int) -> (xs :: IncreasingList) -> (case xs of { Empty -> (); (y:_) -> x < y }) -> IncreasingList } < 1460171391 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Haskell doesn't actually let you do that. < 1460171405 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can do something really similar in Coq. < 1460171418 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't ask me to; I don't remember the syntax. < 1460171435 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the idea here is... < 1460171457 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Increasing list of integers" can just be defined as a list of integers, which satisfies the predicate "is increasing". < 1460171474 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go eat dinner < 1460171496 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is if you have define a set and then you will make the sorted list from such set < 1460171531 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an alternative is to sort of weave it into the definition of your list, so to speak. < 1460171540 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1460171561 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: see you later. < 1460171743 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460173059 0 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1460173482 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have implemented Black-Johansen in JavaScript now < 1460173531 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 𓂸 𓂹 𓂺 < 1460173565 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+130B8 EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D052] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+130B9 EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D052A] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+130BA EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D053] < 1460173601 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Black-Johansen? < 1460173601 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know Egyptian writing? < 1460173619 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: An algorithm for optimizing text encoding in Z-machine < 1460173649 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460173667 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The algorithm is made up by myself and by oerjan) < 1460173747 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured that part. < 1460173921 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460173930 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text is encoded as a series of 5-bit Z-characters, involving three shift states. Zero always represents a space; 1 and 2 and 3 are "frequent words"; 4 and 5 set the shift state, and 6 to 31 are emit the character. The initial shift state is 0, where 4 means temporary shift to state 1 and 5 means temporary shift to state 2. In state 1, 4 permanent shifts to 1 and 5 permanent shifts to 0. In state 2, 5 permanent shifts to 0 and 4 permanent shift < 1460173968 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each character has its own preferred shift state, for which it is part of that character set. In addition, Z-character 6 of state 2 means the next two Z-characters are interpreted as an ASCII code and it then emits an arbitrary ASCII character. < 1460174043 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infocom designed this but then presumably they did not figure out how to encode text in an efficient way using this, so they just omitted the use of permanent shifts and used only temporary shifts in their compiler. < 1460174254 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1460174295 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift state 0 contains lowercase letters, shift state 1 contains uppercase letters, while shift state 2 contains the ASCII escape, line break, followed by 0123456789.,!?_#'"/\-:() < 1460174328 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1460174342 0 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwytkhqlttybrpek QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1460174386 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly by this you can understand what strings [4,13,10,17,17,20,5,19,0,4,28,20,23,17,9,5,20] and [5,5,9,10,11,12,13,6,2,8,14,15,16,17,8] represent. < 1460174591 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 4 13 10 < 1460174593 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum of proper divisors minus the number of proper divisors of n: a(n) = sigm... < 1460174612 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't any mathematical sequences; I described the encoding above < 1460174829 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second example above may be a bit silly but a better example of a text where Black-Johansen will encode more efficiently would be "Copyright (c) 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986 Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved." Using a permanent shift would encode the numbers much more efficiently than temporary shifts < 1460175018 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460175111 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Here's a piece of software that needs to be invented < 1460175117 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Scripted Documents < 1460175135 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But ones that you edit in a mortal-friendly way) < 1460175167 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... like MS Word? < 1460175177 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Excel? < 1460175186 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: MS word isn't scripted usually < 1460175189 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK < 1460175197 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1460175199 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it *can* be. < 1460175217 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Also, Excel is a good example, but PowerPoint is a better one < 1460175224 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It can? < 1460175230 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'm pretty sure. < 1460175236 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excel can definitely be scripted. < 1460175242 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No, Word < 1460175256 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Word can be scripted. < 1460175267 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Huh. Is scripting Word user-friendly? < 1460175279 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you need to be able to use the scripting language. < 1460175292 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh < 1460175301 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not like it's a particularly bad language or anything. < 1460175331 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm thinking something like "Select word -> Right click -> Make Button", which opens an "Events" window < 1460175343 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then in events, "Connect -> Action -> Show Image" < 1460175381 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots and lots of people have put lots and lots of effort into creating a programming system that can be used by people who don't already know programming. < 1460175412 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Fair enough < 1460175421 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Do you know HTML5, out of curiosity? < 1460175451 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Because I kind of want to make a Free Software Online office suite < 1460175458 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460175490 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460175519 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda. < 1460175556 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Any idea what I should call it? < 1460175571 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fsoos. Nah, that's probably not a good name. < 1460175576 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: hey, let me ask you something. < 1460175582 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: Go on < 1460175583 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to start a project and see it through to completion? < 1460175588 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, tswett < 1460175591 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I really do < 1460175600 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I even wrote a short essay on it for school at some point < 1460175612 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But I am genuinely terrible at focusing < 1460175628 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get better at it. < 1460175641 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so < 1460175700 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'll go with Zodiac Office, because "Zodiac" is one of my stock names < 1460175732 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of project do you think you might want to do? < 1460175740 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give the word processor the working name "VomitWordsOntoScreen" < 1460175790 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many of the ideas you've described are the sort of thing a person may spend ten years on. < 1460175807 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any ideas that are, say, weekend-sized? < 1460175871 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's what if is awesome < 1460175886 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ...Nope. < 1460175894 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's probably what I should do < 1460175916 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the topic of What If): Especially the diagram of wing shapes < 1460176058 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try making a tiny calculator with a Qt-based GUI < 1460176069 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems more weekend-sized < 1460176073 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be sure it's horrible < 1460176174 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a good idea. < 1460176186 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prefix notation, because it's easier to parse AND nobody knows how to use it < 1460176249 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All integers must be expressed in Dozenal, because it is clearly the superior system < 1460176305 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's easy to do in python) < 1460177056 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, got the backend working for +-*/ < 1460177103 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has successfully written something similar to Haskell's reflection library in RUst:
< 1460177104 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/3d7f8449ea5ba136038a9c677e744004 < 1460177491 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will need the ability to manipulate the TV guide of the cable box by the use of SQL codes. < 1460177782 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460178075 0 :rdococ_!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1460178093 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1460178178 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pyth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46761&oldid=46231 5* 0386.180.125.40 5* (-2) 10/* Quine */ < 1460178240 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460179020 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1460179857 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What is the minimal database? < 1460180038 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Assuming that all querying must be done in the language, and data produced cannot be filtered any more beyond that, but that you want a technically-usable DB < 1460180149 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460180595 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1460180879 0 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460181544 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: To sleep, perchance to dream of, hm, bears maybe? < 1460181980 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460183340 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460184555 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1460184915 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimal database is usually implemented as "a folder full of CSV files" < 1460184928 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sometimes "full of JSON files" < 1460184991 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, it is often "a file containing arbitrary fwritten structs" < 1460185151 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal database is also often implemented via using the filename to store the value of one field < 1460185158 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus using the filesystem as a hash table < 1460185165 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that too < 1460185191 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, if you have nonrelational data, you can't do much better than a hash table for your database anyway < 1460185217 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relational queries that databases are very good at, that and situations where you can't fit the whole thing in memory or you need to handle power loss without data loss < 1460185365 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a weird reddit rule < 1460185379 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[X-POST/r/name-of-this-subreddit] flag must be in title when reposting OC from this sub. < 1460185508 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Element14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46762&oldid=46440 5* 03Kc kennylau 5* (+49) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1460185661 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGH why doesn't ksp have a "dump fuel" button < 1460185703 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to fly in circles a bunch before I can land this damn thinf < 1460185736 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or be really really good at flying < 1460185992 0 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1460186976 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460187029 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1460187232 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1460187742 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1460188087 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :save.H4X < 1460188789 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've invented a new buzzword-that-sounds-good-but-is-actually-horribly-awful < 1460188936 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's in the same category as "Self-modifying code", "Java Applet", and "think outside the tesseract") < 1460188942 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it: "Metascripting" < 1460188962 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1460188966 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember Spellbreaker? < 1460189037 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1460189115 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460189149 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1460189153 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. Forbes is evil because they block you if you have an adblocker. < 1460189267 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that we should send some legalbabble to them referencing nonexistant legislation so they'll get rid of it < 1460189403 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1460189413 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is we? < 1460189835 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1460190035 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to (attempt to) read Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity < 1460190043 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is many
< 1460190047 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ^ < 1460190123 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1460190938 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1460191201 0 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-131.reshall.wwu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1460194211 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460194458 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:8937:b8f8:14ca:48a8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460194482 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1460194548 0 :me2!~me@38.70.70.115.static.exetel.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1460195384 0 :rdococ_!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1460195454 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1460195691 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460196182 0 :me2!~me@38.70.70.115.static.exetel.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1460197516 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460197852 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460198059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1460198110 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460199320 0 :S1!~S1FeHa@77-64-236-225.dynamic.primacom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460199614 0 :S1!~S1FeHa@77-64-236-225.dynamic.primacom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1460201953 0 :S1!~S1FeHa@77-64-236-225.dynamic.primacom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460203133 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is brainfuck's overflow behaviour undefined in the C sense? That is, can a compiler optimize a program on the assumption that the program never over or underflows? < 1460203343 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's implementation-defined, if you want to follow the C standard's terminology. < 1460203423 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many implementations just use unsigned char cells. So +[+] will terminate. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants distinguished between "wrapping" and "non-wrapping"... < 1460203433 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460203555 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest we come to actual undefined behavior is the case of stepping off the tape to the left. (but the brainfuck interpreter on anagol has the source code immediately to the left of the data and many programs submitted there rely on that fact...) < 1460203661 0 :gremlins!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460203667 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I believe that there are some implementations that have a two-sided unbounded tape. < 1460203737 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1460204319 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460204402 0 :gremlins!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1460204879 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1460204957 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1460208974 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1460211549 0 :S1!~S1FeHa@77-64-236-225.dynamic.primacom.net QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1460211696 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1460212119 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYQB < 1460212120 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYQB 091300Z 31008KT 290V350 30SM SCT038 BKN076 M04/M11 A2972 RMK SC3AC2 SLP071 < 1460212125 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460213013 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460213698 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :Quit: Let's jump! < 1460213944 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I generally write implementations with a two-sided unbounded tape < 1460213957 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1460214066 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1460215004 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.176 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1460215383 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460216088 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so anagol brainfuck is in principle self-modifying? < 1460216400 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460216471 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1460216521 0 :gremlins!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460216649 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1460216653 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quines. there are quine chains. are there pseudo-quine-chains that gradually evolve into an interpreter for the pseudo-quine-chain? < 1460217087 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1460217240 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460217842 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yes it is < 1460218182 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1460219315 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: GUILD CHICKEN < 1460220492 0 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1460223063 0 :yorick___!?@? NICK :yorick < 1460225307 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460225385 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1460226720 0 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1460228082 0 :carado!~carado@savhon.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1460228121 0 :carado!~carado@savhon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1460228175 0 :acertain!~acertain@unaffiliated/fread2281 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460229016 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460229187 0 :Froox!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1460229266 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1460230003 0 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stvamnwbbxezmmnh JOIN :#esoteric < 1460231571 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1460231781 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heathrow's (post-security) restaurant had the silliest knives I've ever seen. < 1460231814 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :They looked more like spoons than knives, the "pointy" end was entirely round. < 1460231827 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of food do they have? < 1460231829 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a flat, narrow spoon. < 1460231854 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending the kind of food it might be suitable, but it might not be suitable because in general that are no good you should need a proper metal knife < 1460231881 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... British pub stuff. Burgers. Chicken breast. I think they might have something steak-like, but I'm not sure. < 1460231896 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be they have real knives for special purposes. < 1460232112 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been in a few British pub in Victoria, BC < 1460232370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to a butterfly garden in Victoria, BC. < 1460232589 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to two British pubs in the past two days < 1460232594 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both in Britain < 1460232705 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460232780 0 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1460232930 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Quit: gtg < 1460232999 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1460233108 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. In M:tG, the last ability of Skullbriar, the Walking Grave looks REALLY strange to me. < 1460233743 0 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1460233832 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does seem like strange, but can be worked. < 1460234102 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I wonder if it could matter for that rule whether counters of the same name are distinguishable, but it doesn't seem so. < 1460234153 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are not distinguishable just multiples of the same name or different name < 1460234605 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they didn't just make the ability such that it keeps the counters in the graveyard and stack but not in exile. < 1460234664 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe so taht it keeps the counters in the gravyard and stack and command zone, but not in exile. < 1460234737 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it loses that ability then it will not keep the counters < 1460234854 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1460235034 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the way again to put a card into a library as a consequence of mana payment during a spell, that is, not at trigger speed? < 1460235092 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just reorder your library that is, but put something to a library from another zone. < 1460235148 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, Darksteel Colossus or similar abilities. < 1460235552 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I play a Jayemdae Tome and during playing, pay for it by sacrificing a Darksteel Colossus on Ashnod's Altar, and get unlucky with shuffling, can Jayemdae Tome cause me to try to draw the Colossus, which then doesn't do anything because it can't move? < 1460235742 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460235764 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you guys heard that the US Congress is trying to ban citizens from using impossible-to-break encryption? < 1460235806 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not heard of that, but would not be surprised of such thing < 1460235844 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was told by a teacher < 1460235856 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have a feeling it'll lead to a new field of cryptography < 1460235875 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Impossible-to-break, but doesn't see like it on the surface. Also, make a billion of these" < 1460235876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1460235893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean steganography then that's a thing yeah < 1460235910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :encryption with plausible deniability < 1460235969 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yep < 1460235977 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's likely what would happen < 1460236011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the uk it's already a crime to refuse to give an encryption key to the police < 1460236014 0 :acertain!~acertain@unaffiliated/fread2281 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1460236046 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What if you don't have the key because of the way things were set up? < 1460236068 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guideline M:tG is using that any real-world mammal needs to have a narrow creature type approperiate for its species is crazy. They have tons of creature types for mammals that are used only on a few cards. < 1460236070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that'd be your defence in court < 1460236090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have some actual means of accessing the data then you're compelled to give that up < 1460236151 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mole is the latest one. They can't just add a "rodent" type because there had been rats and since ancient times. < 1460236529 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to execute JS in-browser as a sandbox? < 1460236547 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, to tell it "You may only use these functions as builtins" < 1460236572 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably (almost necessarily) where "these functions" can be a mix of builtins and custom functions? < 1460236622 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so now the rules don't specify any canonical way to determine which side of double-face card is the front face. This is horrible. < 1460236654 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like firefox has evalInSandbox < 1460236712 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're caught unaware by it too, just look at this: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=410049 shows the back face on the left side, unlike for most double-faced cards. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA HOIST BY THEIR OWN PETARD! < 1460237343 0 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stvamnwbbxezmmnh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1460237510 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you try to download and save the Comprehensive rules from wizards.com , be VERY careful, because the url has the date typoed < 1460237525 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so after I downloaded, it didn't sort as if it were the latest version < 1460237583 0 :acertain!~acertain@unaffiliated/fread2281 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460237659 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460237703 0 :gremlins!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1460238558 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using the HTML version so don't need to download directly from Wizards of the Coast < 1460238659 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction. I was looking at the wrong version of the rules, because of this date thing, and the rules do specify which face is the front, by naming both styles of icons, but Westvale Abbey still seems buggy in Gatherer. < 1460239325 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:8937:b8f8:14ca:48a8 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1460239894 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460240175 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1460240200 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible in Node.js to execute a sandbox context but it is necessary to be careful by enabling strict mode and removing the default prototype of the sandbox context object as well as doing other stuff < 1460240367 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1460240629 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should also define any function needed inside of the sandbox < 1460240652 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and set memory limits and other stuff I guess < 1460240803 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They recommend running untrusted code in a separate process, which would be needed in order to set memory limits and that stuff anyways < 1460240823 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also vm.runInDebugContext although it does not document how the debug context is working < 1460241258 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use Object.defineProperty in order to remove access to JavaScript built-ins, it looks like. < 1460242074 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1460242563 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You know node, correct? < 1460242570 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, wrong question < 1460242577 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Have you ever used PEGjs? < 1460242690 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I've figured it out < 1460242843 0 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1460243288 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they ban strong encryption in the usa, then maybe the databases will move to canada or (trump forbid) mexico. < 1460243331 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which fueue < 1460243366 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. < 1460243381 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/fueue < 1460243391 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1460243397 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls share < 1460243399 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8ballreplies \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ cat \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello2.c \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ UnicodeData.txt \ units.dat \ WordData < 1460243423 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls */*.fu < 1460243431 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/brainfuck.fu < 1460243460 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '<' | fueue src/brainfuck.fu < 1460243477 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1460243483 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1460243491 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1460243491 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1460243514 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/fueue < 1460243516 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/fueue < 1460243537 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very binary. < 1460243671 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1460243702 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '<' | fueue $(cat src/brainfuck.fu) < 1460243704 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: fueue received too many arguments. The Hello world program \ Hello, world! < 1460243717 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1460243733 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '<' | fueue "$(cat src/brainfuck.fu)" < 1460243734 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1460243743 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1460243770 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not sure if i remember how bin/fueue takes its program. < 1460243786 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '+[+.]' | fueue "$(cat src/brainfuck.fu)" < 1460243787 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \  < 1460243793 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work < 1460243796 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1460243811 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '+[+.]' | fueue "$(cat src/brainfuck.fu)" < 1460243812 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \  < 1460243820 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that was the source of the beep < 1460243830 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '<+[+.]' | fueue "$(cat src/brainfuck.fu)" < 1460243831 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \  < 1460243833 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460243838 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that confirms it. < 1460243839 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't \a in public twh < 1460243842 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it beeps too? that must be annoying :P < 1460243875 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: please don't use shitty clients in public twh < 1460243877 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be messing up colors in irssi, too, now that I look at it < 1460243887 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY IRSSI LOOKS FINE < 1460243896 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's wrong with a client that supports notifications < 1460243922 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i dunno but i hear no beeps hth < 1460243928 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default irssi can be fooled to some extent with control sequences starting with ^D (\004) < 1460243938 0 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1460243993 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all this was just because i didn't remember what i did with brainfuck.fu going left. seems i made it double-ended. < 1460244002 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*double-sided < 1460244086 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1460244093 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it was easier to just use two identical stacks for initial tape < 1460244131 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bood evenily < 1460244165 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I believe that there are some implementations that have a two-sided unbounded tape. <-- based on this < 1460244197 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsœrjan. < 1460244216 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsoint-er. < 1460244248 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad ais523 isn't here. < 1460244262 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1460244341 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1460244342 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 092150Z 12007KT 9999 FEW040 01/M02 Q1016 RMK WIND 670FT 17003KT < 1460244343 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshd[32006]: Connection closed by 5.103.65.96 [preauth] <--- fine, but what's the point of doing this once every minute? < 1460244378 0 :staffehn_!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1460244379 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i nearly changed to my summer jacket the other day... < 1460244385 0 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1460244462 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever vesperally porthelloed ais523. it'd make a fine one: bonsais523r. < 1460244466 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYQB < 1460244467 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYQB 092200Z 31011G20KT 30SM SCT044 M02/M11 A2988 RMK SC3 PRESRR SLP125 < 1460244471 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps something is rotten in the state of Denmark. [IP is assigned to an DK ISP] < 1460244498 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are quines. there are quine chains. are there pseudo-quine-chains that gradually evolve into an interpreter for the pseudo-quine-chain? <-- wat < 1460244650 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know about recursive quine chains, where a program output source in another language that output source in another language, etc... and then you get the original source? < 1460244693 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about pseudo-quine-chains, which approximatively get you the original source after a full loop, that you loop and loop and loop up until you get an interpreter to bootstrap the original loop. < 1460244738 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, same thing on another server, two different IPs there... Kuala Lumpur, and the Netherlands < 1460244765 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1460244787 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go play some Dominion... < 1460244797 0 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: MASSIVE CHICKEN < 1460244824 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some botnet for sure, but it still seems odd to scan ports that often... that's what I suppose this is, I'm too lazy to do a packet dump) < 1460244904 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1460245853 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-kvmdwlopqjwmjnmc QUIT :Excess Flood < 1460246021 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-kjdymdqmnlmqmcwi JOIN :#esoteric < 1460246275 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric