00:00:38 <Taneb> Speaking of people being awake and present
00:00:44 <Taneb> I think I'm gonna head to bed
00:01:39 <boily> Tanoooo? is that some finno-ugric overlong vowel?
00:02:18 <Phantom_Hoover> <boily> maybe some class A amnesiacs were applied on my person hth
00:02:42 <oerjan> amnestics at the amnesium
00:03:14 <boily> Phantom_Heloooover.
00:03:27 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, that kind of error makes me nauseous
00:03:45 <boily> Tanelle. aren't you sleeping now?
00:03:55 <Taneb> I said I thought I would head to be
00:04:00 <Taneb> Thus far I have not
00:04:09 <boily> it appears to be the case indeed.
00:04:46 <boily> . o O ( transconsciousness bio-augmented digital communication )
00:05:07 <Taneb> boily, an alternate explanation is I have a laptop and am IRCing from bed
00:05:13 <Taneb> This, however, would be false
00:05:16 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
00:05:24 <b_jonas> I revived termbot, but people suggested me that I take it to another channel (which I count as success) so now it's running on #termbot
00:06:03 <oerjan> `learn An amnesium is a school where you forgot everything you learned as soon as you graduate.
00:06:09 <HackEgo> Learned 'amnesium': An amnesium is a school where you forgot everything you learned as soon as you graduate.
00:06:16 <oerjan> `learn An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned as soon as you graduate.
00:06:21 <HackEgo> Relearned 'amnesium': An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned as soon as you graduate.
00:06:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: that would actually be better than normal schools, where you forget everything you learned after each exam
00:07:15 <boily> I know how to draw an integral symbol. fungot if I remember how to solve one...
00:07:16 <fungot> boily: no problem! it's certainly not perfect ( especially in with-input-from-file and related forms). and the climate is like. sometimes smart people deliberately choose the " save target as...", i.e.
00:08:07 <oerjan> b_jonas: hm alas i may have mistyped, then
00:08:25 <oerjan> `learn An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned after each test.
00:08:29 <HackEgo> Relearned 'amnesium': An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned after each test.
00:09:46 <oerjan> boily: just do differentiation in reverse hth
00:10:20 <oerjan> (technically correct, the best kind of correct)
00:12:32 <fizzie> boily: I know how to solve integrals -- you type them to Wolfram Alpha.
00:14:03 <Taneb> I haven't had to solve an integral for two years this month
00:17:48 <fizzie> I was pretty proud the other day that I could still somehow manage to derive $\frac{4 \pi r^3}{3}$ from $2 \int_0^r \pi(r^2-x^2) dx$ when I couldn't quite feel certain about the volume of a sphere.
00:17:58 <boily> “Hi, my name is Taneb, and I haven't solved an integral in two years” “Hi Taneb”
00:18:32 <Taneb> Now I will go to bed
00:18:32 <shachaf> Well, Taneb invented integrals.
00:19:31 <boily> rebonne retanuitb!
00:20:40 -!- moon__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:24:53 <shachaf> `le/rn tanebvention/Tanebventions are inventions Taneb invented. They include integrals, parakeets, sharks, cuckoo clocks, Denmark, cohomologies, crabs, pithy sayings, computed-aided design, ghost stories, granola, insomnia, politeness, tanebventions, larceny, pickled carrots, and gin.
00:25:57 <shachaf> Hmm, Taneb invented a lot of animals.
00:30:04 * boily needs to find a good pickled carrot recipe
00:30:46 <oerjan> . o O ( why doesn't irssi make styling codes copy/pasteable )
00:32:22 -!- moon__ has joined.
00:32:24 * ybden . o O ( why doesn't irssi log styling codes )
00:32:34 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
00:32:47 <lambdabot> CYQB 072300Z 07010G16KT 20SM SCT065 BKN100 BKN280 15/11 A2961 RMK SC4AC1CI2 CB NW AND S DIST SLP030 DENSITY ALT 600FT
00:32:51 -!- tromp_ has joined.
00:32:52 <oerjan> ybden: i think that's an option?
00:32:56 <boily> CB NW AND S indeed.
00:33:07 <lambdabot> ENVA 072250Z 12003KT 9999 FEW074 SCT110 10/06 Q1020 RMK WIND 670FT 00000KT
00:33:40 <shachaf> perhaps boily sprø som coselleri
00:34:04 <boily> I only sprœ un peu de céleri hth
00:34:18 <shachaf> celery is a scow vegetable
00:34:28 <shachaf> how can anyone eat it tdnh
00:35:11 <ybden> oerjan: oh, thanks
00:35:47 <boily> shachaf: celery is wonderful. part of the créole holy trinity, with onions and bell peppers.
00:36:39 <oerjan> "Whether to save colors in autologs. Colors make logs harder to parse and grep, but they may be vital for channels that deal heavily in ANSI art, or something."
00:36:53 <shachaf> Bell peppers and celery are the scow of vegetables.
00:37:39 -!- Kaynato has joined.
00:37:40 <boily> olives are addictive. I tried anchovy-stuffed olives; that thing should be regulated.
00:38:06 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:39:29 <\oren\> The only green thing I eat is green apples
00:39:50 <\oren\> I do not like red apples
00:39:58 <shachaf> \oren\: What sorts of red apples?
00:40:07 <\oren\> the kind that arent sour
00:40:11 <shachaf> I like green apples, but it turns out I like some red apples too.
00:40:17 <boily> apples taste good, but I can't really eat them raw. they give me toothache.
00:40:19 <shachaf> Not Red Delicious, obviously.
00:40:37 <boily> red delicious is flavourless starchy paste. it doesn't count as an apple.
00:41:04 <shachaf> boily: do potatoes count as apples twh
00:42:36 <boily> potatoes are potatous, while apples apply hth
00:43:19 <ybden> oerjan: Hmm, that doesn't seem to have worked
00:43:29 <shachaf> remember http://www.game-art-hq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Tomator-in-Lost-Vikings-Screenshot.jpg ?
00:43:37 <ybden> shachaf: Apples of the Earth?
00:46:15 * boily pokes moon__ to check for aliveness
00:47:10 <zzo38> Hidden Purelace {-} Conspiracy ;; Hidden agenda ;; Nonbasic objects with the chosen name are white.
00:47:15 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of things?
00:47:49 <ybden> * boily finds no aliveness
00:48:11 <shachaf> zzo38: I'd prefer if it was called "Hidden Deathlace" and said "black" instead of "white".
00:48:16 <zzo38> It does not affect basic lands (the actual Purelace can, but only one per casting)
00:48:25 <zzo38> shachaf: I did make up that one too, as well as the other three
00:48:42 <shachaf> zzo38: I know you made that one up. But that's a different card.
00:48:48 <shachaf> I'd prefer if this card had those properties.
00:49:26 <zzo38> But then it would be the different card.
00:50:15 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
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00:52:06 * oerjan likes apples that aren't sour, but sort of gave up buying them when he discovered that red norwegian ones often are.
00:53:50 <oerjan> @ask ybden i dunno, maybe it only works if set before the logs are opened? i've never used it, anyway.
00:56:36 <zzo38> The other conspiracy card I made up is "When ~ faced up, you may pay {1(2/U)(2/U)}. If you do, or if target spell's name is the chosen name, counter that spell." I have written ones for the other four colors too by now though
00:57:13 <moon__> @ask oerjan did i do this right?
00:57:35 * moon__ pokes boily to check for aliveness
01:01:36 <lambdabot> moon__ asked 4m 22s ago: did i do this right?
01:01:50 <oerjan> @tell moon__ No. More groveling please.
01:02:21 <oerjan> . o O ( now that "please" looks out of place )
01:03:17 <oerjan> moon__: i predict boily chickening out hth
01:03:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unreadable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46971&oldid=45209 * 67.164.67.38 * (+154) /* Alphabet */ removed a frivolous comment; clarified Whitespace comment; put inline code blocks so you could tell what characters were in use
01:06:10 -!- IRCFrEAK has joined.
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01:43:11 <oerjan> <fungot> b_jonas: pero el loco me fnord fnord en oikein tiedä, mun fnord on vitun kipee what <-- very multilingual
01:43:11 <fungot> oerjan: the sound didn't work for some things
01:46:12 <oerjan> <ybden> Also, they render horribly in several clients <-- including the tunes logs tdnh
01:47:05 <shachaf> oerjan: what's with the tunes logs being not being served as text/plain tdnh
01:47:35 <oerjan> ask the maintainer hth
01:48:03 <shachaf> what, you retired from that too?
01:48:11 <zzo38> The glogbot logs are better though, isn't it?
01:48:20 <oerjan> zzo38: glogbot is not present
01:48:23 <shachaf> they're missing animportant feature right now hth
01:48:41 <oerjan> zzo38: i don't remember what glogbot's logs do with notice
01:49:17 <zzo38> It records all raw data together with timestamps, so it does nothing
01:49:21 <oerjan> of course neither of them renders colors
01:50:08 <shachaf> oerjan: which is good because they let you catch when certain unnamed users cheat with irc control codes hth
01:50:10 <oerjan> zzo38: i mean the log web pages that don't hurt my eyes
01:50:29 <oerjan> zzo38: raw format is definitely _worse_ than what i'm already complaining about tunes doing.
01:51:03 <zzo38> No the raw format is OK. If you want different format write your own parser for them, and then it can be whatever format you want it to be.
01:51:45 <oerjan> shachaf: however, it means all the colored lines look like they're just strewn with random digits.
01:51:46 <shachaf> zzo38: but what if you don't want to write your own parser, though
01:52:36 <zzo38> Then download a parser that someone else made up and run it on the logs
01:53:25 <oerjan> zzo38: your view on what's a convenient interface is not very popular
01:55:54 <oerjan> shachaf: also, if the logs rendered colors and i wanted to check for cheating, _then_ i could use the raw version. (although i don't know if tunes has any.)
01:56:29 <zzo38> Tunes seems to have none but they ought to have raw version.
01:57:08 <moon___> `erro Error 8: Lol! I can hear rocks!
01:57:13 <HackEgo> Error 8: Lol! I can hear rocks!
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02:05:55 -!- jaboja has joined.
02:06:20 <shachaf> https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/essentially+surjective+functor
02:06:26 <shachaf> so that's what esolangs are about?
02:09:46 <oerjan> this swatter is essentially surjective on shachaf -----###
02:17:01 <hppavilion[1]> moon___: I'm making a language called PicoScript you may be interested in
02:18:28 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Essentially Surjective Functors are fungots that are Essentially Surjective on Objects (eso)
02:18:28 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: go to c, it has totally adorable pics of his dog.
02:18:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The international hub of solid matrices | Home of the world's largest ball of threads | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Saint Petersburg (not Saint Petersburg).
02:20:02 <zzo38> Don't you mean functors and not fungots?
02:21:25 * oerjan realizes this makes his next city pair obvious
02:21:52 <oerjan> and very close to home.
02:31:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:32:12 <boily> oerjan: I am not due to chicken yet hth.
02:32:40 -!- moon___ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:41:44 <oerjan> boily: i am very bad at time estimates hth
02:42:11 <oerjan> (also lengths, although that comes up far rarer)
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02:45:20 <boily> length and time are the same. "My friend lives 30 minutes away" is perfectly acceptable.
02:45:37 -!- incomprehensibly has joined.
02:46:00 <boily> I think area is inversely proportional to acceleration too.
02:49:06 <oerjan> it's v^2/r, not v/r^2.
02:49:40 <boily> oh. hm. eeeerghgh.
02:50:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
02:50:52 <oerjan> try gravitation instead, that fits.
03:02:37 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
03:45:55 <boily> hppavellon[1]. wait for the dimensions to work. the space between them is illusory. all in all, the parts will align as they should.
03:46:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMPORTANT CHICKEN).
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03:52:42 <zzo38> I am making another implementation if Internet Quiz Engine in JavaScript, which includes a try block to use it as a stand-alone program with Node.js (if it isn't running under Node.js then it will not start automatically, and you must write code to interface it e.g. in a web page). The canonical implementation is still the C version though and new features will be added to the C version first.
03:54:38 <shachaf> zzo38: Why don't you compile one version to the other?
03:55:02 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hcf: not found
03:55:21 <oerjan> short term memory, oerjan
03:55:30 <HackEgo> You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air aboe the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
03:55:37 <HackEgo> erro 'You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air aboe the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.' erro "$1" erro 'stands below'
03:56:07 <zzo38> shachaf: They are written in different ways. The C version for running on a gopher server, while the JavaScript version is meant for stand-alone.
03:56:24 <zzo38> (I also don't know how to compile one to the other.)
03:56:58 <zzo38> `` le/rn "hfs/`hfs`" # Maybe this way better?
03:57:18 <HackEgo> You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air aboe the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
03:57:28 <oerjan> zzo38: apparently, i didn't know `` worked inside quotes
03:57:31 <int-e> that, or `` le/rn "hfs/$(hfs)"
03:57:43 <oerjan> int-e: was just about to write that.
03:57:44 <zzo38> oerjan: Now you know
03:58:09 * int-e wonders whether tromp is still awake
03:58:14 <HackEgo> oerjan moon__ moon__ moon__ moon__ moon__
03:58:15 <lambdabot> Local time for tromp_ is 2016/05/07 22:58 -0400
03:58:48 <oerjan> *sigh* no use @tell'ing someone who has random number of _ suffixes.
03:59:09 <zzo38> Is "tromp" anything like "trump"? And if it is, is it like whist or like Donald Trump (or both)?
03:59:42 <oerjan> zzo38: i hope not, or else tromp is probably long since sick of that comparison.
03:59:47 <shachaf> zzo38: Is a trump in whist anything like a trebled fromp in double fanucci?
04:00:03 <shachaf> Do you know the rules to double fanucci?
04:00:38 <zzo38> No I do not know the rules of double fanucci, or if a trump in whist is anything like it or not.
04:01:01 <shachaf> Have you played Zork Zero?
04:01:14 * oerjan starts feeling bad, then remembers he's retired again.
04:01:33 <zzo38> No, although I know how cards are in a fanucci deck.
04:01:45 <shachaf> zzo38: You should play Zork Zero.
04:01:49 <oerjan> shachaf: about not having an obvious way to tell moon_* i moved it.
04:02:26 <zzo38> There are fifteen suits, each with 0 to 9 and infinity, and nine trumps. (I think?)
04:02:51 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you play bridge?
04:03:27 <zzo38> I do know how, but I have played only a few times. It is similar to whist but more complicated.
04:03:29 <shachaf> zzo38: Oh, now I remember.
04:03:44 <shachaf> There's a trick to winning in Double Fanucci.
04:03:48 <oerjan> shachaf: also my right foot aches a bit tdnh
04:03:56 <shachaf> Three undetrumps after an opponent's discard of a trebled fromp.
04:04:01 <shachaf> So I guess a trump isn't like a fromp.
04:04:16 <zzo38> Yes and that information is printed on the calendar that comes with the game I think.
04:04:29 <shachaf> The game is difficult to play without the calendar.
04:05:14 <oerjan> do the rules change by date? otherwise a calendar seems somewhat off...
04:06:00 <zzo38> I think the rules do change by date, but what it says on the calendar is just how Flathead won the game, I Think.
04:06:11 <shachaf> It's a calendar for the year 883.
04:06:27 <shachaf> http://infodoc.plover.net/manuals/temp/zork0.pdf
04:06:51 <shachaf> The calendar starts on page 21.
04:07:09 <oerjan> oh it's a game within a game
04:08:21 <shachaf> zzo38: Did you read the calendar?
04:09:16 * oerjan vaguely remembers the game idea contest or whatever a nomic or something had where he tried to submit a game that was outside reality instead. alas people didn't appreciate it ihrc
04:09:25 <zzo38> I did read the calendar.
04:10:22 <shachaf> well, maybe it was a different nomic
04:10:47 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm pretty sure i'm male, and also it was web-based somehow. it may have been just a forum and not an actual nomic.
04:11:16 <shachaf> oerjan: well i thought agora required spivak pronouns for everyone
04:11:39 <oerjan> i don't think they require it when the gender is known.
04:12:57 <zzo38> You can make up other games with the same fanucci cards just as it can also be done with other card too.
04:13:20 <shachaf> zzo38: can you invent cards such that it's impossible to make up games with them
04:14:06 <zzo38> shachaf: I don't know. Someone made up "Morgan Tarot" (which despite the name is not a tarot pack), and looks to be too difficult to design a card game, but someone did it anyways.
04:14:13 <oerjan> alas, the one example of in the current rules is a mistaken "his" in a spot that should be "eir".
04:14:48 <oerjan> i'm not sure anyone but Michael Norrish is mentioned by name in the rule texts, and there's no pronoun invoked.
04:15:16 <oerjan> (there is "he" in a judgement quote)
04:17:27 <lambdabot> Local time for ski is Sun May 8 05:17:26 2016
04:18:45 <oerjan> oh the Town Fountain rule has more names/nicks. but no singular pronouns.
04:21:05 <oerjan> and the Birthday Rule. that may be all, although i don't know how to search.
04:21:38 <oerjan> (the Birthday Rule has some singular pronouns, but not third person ones.)
04:29:14 -!- moon___ has joined.
04:29:54 <oerjan> moon___: hi you have too many _s also i move hfs to wisdom hth
04:31:25 <shachaf> oerjan: you have too few _s so it works out hth
04:32:55 * oerjan thought he included an l
04:33:20 * oerjan isn't sure whether his finger motorics or his keyboard is the most defect
04:33:38 <shachaf> maybe you should hire a detect to find out for you hth
04:33:40 -!- moon___ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
04:46:03 <zzo38> Someone else on here once made a quiz file for use with Internet Quiz Engine, related to esoteric programming language. I will make this program you can test it more easily by locally too.
04:47:06 -!- sebbu has joined.
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04:54:49 <oerjan> @tell fizzie <fizzie> (There was a tiny-font disclaimer in the end about how this version of the story "is the one the author wishes to believe".) <-- have em do the holocaust next hth
05:00:37 -!- Kaynato has changed nick to Caesura.
05:02:38 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
05:03:31 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> (I added some stupid wisdom entries in private message again.) <-- good i'm retired so i don't have to complain that we rewrote the learn commands precisely so we could check wisdom additions just by reading the logs hth
05:04:08 <shachaf> `learn_append norway It was invented by King Taneb I in in the 9th century.
05:04:41 <shachaf> b_jonas: adding wisdom entries in /msg is a bit of a scow move imo
05:05:08 <oerjan> does anyone know if there comes a time in life when you start getting _less_ grumpy again twh
05:05:48 <shachaf> oerjan: are you expecting an answer from someone older than you
05:06:05 <shachaf> because if anything i should be the one asking this question
05:06:07 <zzo38> How do you know which way it is toggled?
05:06:19 <shachaf> zzo38: You check the logs for the number of times it's been toggled so far.
05:06:47 <oerjan> shachaf: sounds like a job for hg
05:06:50 <zzo38> I think is better not to add by private because if it public then it can be copied to all of the available logs automatically.
05:07:51 <oerjan> oh well. i'm retired. now where's my cane...
05:08:58 * oerjan subtly spreads some grass seeds around him
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05:11:03 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across.
05:12:06 <oerjan> `learn_append #esoteric oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part.
05:12:12 <HackEgo> Learned '#esoteric': #esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part.
05:13:24 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/mon[^.]*/After monqy left it's slightly off-center/' wisdom/#esoteric
05:13:27 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
05:13:37 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/mon[^.]*/After monqy left it'"'"'s slightly off-center/' wisdom/#esoteric
05:13:45 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it's slightly off-center. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part.
05:14:33 <oerjan> `` sed -i s/enter/entër/ wisdom/#esoteric
05:14:52 <HackEgo> english channel? ¯\(°_o)/¯
05:15:25 <Caesura> Figuring out how to get WebRTC JS to talk to my C server is killing me
05:15:39 <Caesura> Not even slowly, but very rapidly
05:15:53 <HackEgo> Your infamous mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
05:16:22 <zzo38> I think I wrote in the back file for the level20.tex story that Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe play Double Fanucci game against a half dragon and lost; if it was a real dragon then he would be killed instead.
05:16:23 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/infamous/retired/' wisdom/oerjan
05:16:41 <shachaf> `le/rn english channel/If it existed, the English Channel would separate Hexham from Finland.
05:16:48 <zzo38> But since it is half dragon it is only the loss of ten perica (approximately)
05:17:03 <oerjan> `` grep -r chann wisdom
05:17:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/#programming:No such channel. See `? #esoteric \ wisdom/esoteric:This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. \ wisdom/stereotype:A stereotype is a two-channel monotype. \ wisdom/fungot:fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. \ wisdom/finland:Finland is a European c
05:17:41 <oerjan> `` grep -r nnël wisdom
05:17:47 <shachaf> `sedlast s/If it existed/Were it to exist/
05:17:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sedlast: not found
05:18:15 <oerjan> shachaf: sorry about this. i got tired of the race conditions.
05:18:24 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed bin/sedlast | grep summary:
05:18:41 <HackEgo> summary: <oerjan> rm bin/sedlast \ summary: <oerjan> mkx bin/sedlast//files="$(lastfiles)"; sed -i "$1" "$files"; echo -n "$files//"; cat "$files" \ summary: <shachaf> mkx bin/sedlast//sed -i "$1" "$(lastfiles)"
05:19:00 <oerjan> i suppose you can put back since i retired hth
05:21:19 <shachaf> oerjan: well, maybe a sed file//s/.../.../ command would be sufficient
05:21:27 <shachaf> you should write it as penance for deleting the other file twh
05:21:31 <shachaf> just copy the code from mk
05:22:33 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cmd="$1" \ shift \ f="$*" \ if [[ -z "$f" && "$cmd" == *\ * ]]; then f="${cmd#* }"; cmd="${cmd%% *}"; fi \ if [[ -z "$f" ]]; then echo try: \`f command filename; elif [[ -e "$f" ]]; then "$cmd" "$(< "$f")"; else echo no such file: "$f"; fi
05:22:51 <oerjan> i think that's space-delimited, though
05:23:37 <oerjan> oh and the wrong order
05:23:38 <shachaf> doesn't work for wisdom/english channel
05:24:22 <oerjan> `` hg log --removed bin/sedlast
05:24:28 <HackEgo> changeset: 7813:8bc49d1253ed \ user: HackBot \ date: Fri May 06 00:36:07 2016 +0000 \ summary: <oerjan> rm bin/sedlast \ \ changeset: 7780:87f80d4bcedd \ user: HackBot \ date: Fri May 06 00:15:56 2016 +0000 \ summary: <oerjan> mkx bin/sedlast//files="$(lastfiles)"; sed -i "$1" "$files"; echo -n "$files//"; c
05:24:54 <HackEgo> files="$(lastfiles)"; sed -i "$1" "$files"; echo -n "$files//"; cat "$files"
05:27:09 <shachaf> oerjan: you're practically compliant with the haskell report these days
05:28:19 <shachaf> oerjan: well, i can't blame you
05:28:25 <shachaf> you were already tired, and then you got tired again
05:29:11 <lambdabot> Local time for ski is Sun May 8 06:29:11 2016
05:29:23 <ski> @time shachaf
05:29:25 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sat May 7 21:29:23 2016
05:29:29 <ski> @time lambdabot
05:29:29 <lambdabot> I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time?
05:29:57 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sun May 8 06:29:56 2016
05:30:15 <ski> oerjan must be one of those early morning birds
05:31:38 <oerjan> provided that you mean that i've been up for 10 hours.
05:31:41 <ski> i suppose it's a case of "leaned so far `foldr' they came back `foldl'"
05:33:09 * ski has been up for .. hmm .. `20' hours, perhaps
05:34:02 <lambdabot> uptime: 5d 13h 11m 53s, longest uptime: 1m 12d 14h 14m 14s
05:34:14 <shachaf> lambdabot: no wonder you're acting like that
05:34:30 <shachaf> ski: Perhaps the time has come to wrap up this document. :-)
05:34:38 <ski> anyway, i don't think i have much more, ontopic, to add to <https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/dinatural> atm
05:34:54 <shachaf> I'd be happy to hear more about the topic at one point. :-)
05:35:08 <shachaf> I should get a book or nlab or something and work through all these definitions until they make sense.
05:35:39 * ski was pondering "decreasing naturals" a little bit earlier
05:36:11 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
05:38:33 <shachaf> oerjan: you've infected my keyboard tdnh
05:38:58 <ski> where you'll in general only know an upper bound of the natural number
05:39:26 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> Are there any interesting algorithms that run in Theta(BB(n)) time? <-- no, see http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2725#comment-1084808
05:39:36 <ski> i define decreasing naturals as the limits of decreasing infinite sequences of natural numbers
05:40:07 <ski> (well, in practice, as infimum, or alternatively another similar thing. but the "rough idea" is "limits")
05:40:43 <ski> the question is how to compute with decreasing natural numbers
05:41:38 <ski> (if you take infimum, or the other thing, then any infinite sequence of natural numbers would work. but you can reduce that case to the simpler decreasing infinite sequence case)
05:41:51 * ski isn't sure what "the other thing" is called
05:41:57 <oerjan> tip: decreasing infinite sequences of natural numbers are eventually constant hth
05:42:41 <ski> oerjan : unfortunately, proving that requires Lesser Principle of Omniscience
05:42:55 <oerjan> ski: aka induction hth
05:43:11 <ski> (unless you know there's a `0' in the sequence. in that case it works, yes)
05:43:18 <ski> oerjan : no, induction is computable
05:43:19 <shachaf> someone finds turing machines more intuitive than lambda calculus?
05:43:27 <ski> LPO isn't known to be computable
05:43:43 <ski> hm, probably one can show it isn't in `Eff' or something
05:43:45 <oerjan> ski: oh you're doing some constructive nons^Wresearch, don't mind me...
05:44:21 <ski> oerjan : if this wasn't constructive, then "decreasing naturals" would already be iso to "naturals", rendering the whole question uninteresting :)
05:45:17 <ski> oerjan : the question was how to *compute* with decreasing naturals. ergo, we're doing constructive reasoning :)
05:46:02 * ski . o O ( <http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/languages-and-machines/> )
05:46:04 * oerjan was pretty sure he was joking from the start, although not about exactly what
05:47:17 <oerjan> that's the problem with joking, you might end up obligated to read stuff...
05:48:16 -!- Shubshub has joined.
05:48:28 <Shubshub> Been a long time since I was here last
05:48:48 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:49:06 <oerjan> are you tromp's nemesis
05:49:08 <Shubshub> Not sure if people remember me :P
05:49:14 <Shubshub> I forgot how to add a language
05:49:44 * ski . o O ( Iä iä <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub> )
05:56:16 <ski> (also <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Shub%E2%80%93Smale_machine>)
05:59:53 <ski> yes, i figured
06:07:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Golpher]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46972 * Shubshub * (+1111) Created page with "'''Golpher''' is an esoteric language created to be similar in some ways to Brainfuck but at the same time being its own thing Current Version: 1.0 An online Interpreter can..."
06:08:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Golpher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46973&oldid=46972 * Shubshub * (+54)
06:09:20 <shachaf> oerjan: Hmm, maybe I should read the whole thread.
06:19:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Shubshub]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46974&oldid=32166 * Shubshub * (-51)
06:29:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46975&oldid=46970 * Shubshub * (+14) /* G */
06:32:25 <oerjan> shachaf: me too! i'm only a few comments past that point.
06:33:28 <shachaf> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/62859/simpler-statements-equivalent-to-conpa-or-conzfc
06:34:00 <oerjan> i think i'll skip following too many links, or i'll never finish tyvm
06:34:26 <shachaf> well that link is a short discussion of the same topic from 2011
06:40:47 <shachaf> tromp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus says that Haskell-style I/O requires a type system, but that isn't true.
06:41:37 <shachaf> Not that BLC would benefit from Haskell-style I/O, for the things it's typically used for.
06:41:49 <zzo38> There it is: http://zzo38computer.org/inquiz/inquiz.js
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06:52:08 <shachaf> oerjan: also the claim in comment 176 is false
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06:52:47 <shachaf> I'd comment if it wasn't so off-topic.
06:54:09 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:55:32 <shachaf> Of course, in Haskell you don't even need the number argument.
07:20:04 <shachaf> <shachaf> Hmm, there's an advantage to *-kinded naturals over promoted DataKinded naturals:
07:20:09 <shachaf> <shachaf> If I write data Z = Z; data S n = S n, then I can use [S (S (S Z))] on the value level to compactly express a type argument.
07:20:14 <shachaf> <shachaf> I don't think there's anything as convenient with DataKinded naturals.
07:25:55 <oerjan> sheesh i hadn't even loaded that
07:27:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Golpher]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46976&oldid=46973 * Shubshub * (+94) Smaller Hello World Example
07:28:35 <Shubshub> &++<'×<&÷+<^-<<×-<#!+<$@-<&@<×-<@++<@<.!<= is Hello World is Golpher
07:29:06 <oerjan> Shubshub: that's pretty long for a hello world in a golfing language
07:29:14 <oerjan> even one without cheating
07:29:26 <oerjan> WELL THE NAME COULD HAVE FOOLED ME
07:29:31 <zgrep> It's a gopher language that happens to have an l in it?
07:29:55 <zgrep> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher
07:30:00 <Shubshub> Isn't Golpher how you spell the animals name?
07:30:23 <oerjan> Shubshub: you can move the page, unless there's a duplicate
07:31:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Shubshub * moved [[Golpher]] to [[Gopher]]: Renamed Language to Correct Spelling
07:32:06 <oerjan> Shubshub: want me to delete the redirect in the old place?
07:32:27 <zgrep> Does it do that automatically?
07:32:39 <oerjan> it makes a redirect automatically
07:32:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Golpher]]": Author request: content was: "#REDIRECT [[Gopher]]" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Shubshub|Shubshub]]")
07:34:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46979&oldid=46975 * Oerjan * (-1) /* G */ sp
07:34:48 <shachaf> Shubshub: When Phantom_Hoover is around, you should tell him about your language.
07:35:06 <Shubshub> Yeah when it works again It just broke .-.
07:35:51 <oerjan> time for one of my patent sortings
07:37:31 <zgrep> oerjan: You sort patents?
07:39:24 * zgrep quietly wonders whether it would be easier/nicer to instead of manually creating lists of languages, languages belonged to categories such as 'Joke Language' and 'Esoteric Language', etc, and the lists would be made courtesy of MediaWiki...
07:39:25 <oerjan> shachaf: that was HackEgo
07:39:57 <oerjan> zgrep: we discussed that just the other day.
07:40:09 <zgrep> Ah. I wasn't watching the other day, I guess.
07:40:12 <HackEgo> Concentrate and ask again.
07:40:17 * zgrep wonders what special magic lets HackEgo know when things have changed on the wiki
07:40:35 <shachaf> oerjan: doesn't look like it hth
07:40:48 <zgrep> oerjan: Care to summarize if you remember any? Or should I just go back and read what was said?
07:40:49 <oerjan> zgrep: they're on the same server, and there's some kind of push api
07:41:14 <shachaf> oerjan: so HackEgo is the wiki's push kin?
07:41:47 <oerjan> zgrep: well mostly that neither categories or the lists include everything
07:41:59 <shachaf> must be too tired for puns
07:42:16 <oerjan> and also i mentioned (ok so i was there) that the names of languages and articles don't always agree for technical reasons.
07:42:39 <oerjan> zgrep: also, the Joke language list is much more elaborate with descriptions.
07:42:47 <oerjan> (i don't think that was mentioned)
07:43:23 <zgrep> oerjan: Well, I mean, making them agree would be a prerequisite to such a change. :P
07:43:48 <zgrep> Ah, I see. Hmmm...
07:44:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gopher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46980&oldid=46977 * Shubshub * (+237)
07:44:11 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't see what a bad outlook has to do with whether i'm retired hth
07:44:24 <shachaf> oerjan: you might be retired, but HackEgo isn't
07:44:33 <shachaf> so stop editing the wiki and start editing HackEgo hth
07:46:56 <oerjan> shachaf: i'd swat you but i don't know how to do it in russian hth
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07:49:04 <shachaf> Was that the website that tracked its visitors and told you all sorts of details about them?
07:49:15 <shachaf> I mean, all websites do that.
07:49:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Shubshub]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46981&oldid=46974 * Shubshub * (-1)
07:49:27 <shachaf> But they don't all tell you.
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07:54:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46982&oldid=46979 * Oerjan * (+7) order! also piped link.
07:54:38 <shachaf> whoa, GHC is getting explicit type application? https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/5296
07:54:54 <oerjan> isn't that ancient news
07:55:12 <shachaf> Maybe? I didn't hear about it.
07:55:29 <shachaf> I haven't been paying attention much.
07:55:30 * Shubshub whispers "Someone should write a Gopher -> Brainfuck Converter"
07:55:30 <oerjan> i'm backlogged to middle march, and i still know that.
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07:55:54 <shachaf> I'm backlogged to about a year ago.
07:56:10 <oerjan> shachaf: don't you do haskell any more
07:56:20 <Shubshub> I need to add a function that lets it loop back to the start of the code
07:56:24 <shachaf> Sometimes I grouch in #haskell.
07:56:28 <shachaf> I don't even know why, though.
07:56:30 <Shubshub> Things like 99 bottles of beer can be short then
07:56:34 <oerjan> okay. neither do i, fwiw.
07:57:06 <Shubshub> fwiw I golfed 99 Bottles of beer in JS
07:57:07 <Shubshub> b=" bottle";e=(c=" of beer")+" on the wall. ";j=b+e;for(i=100;--i;)h=(k=(g=b+"s")+e)+i+g+c+"\nTake 1 down & pass it around, ",console.log(i+(i<2?j+i+b+c+"\nGo to the store & buy some more, 99"+k:i<3?h+1+j:h+(i-1)+k))
07:57:17 <shachaf> and yet you still knew about it
07:57:58 <oerjan> i said i didn't do haskell, not that i didn't read about it.
07:58:07 <zgrep> Wait, do what in russian?
07:58:22 <oerjan> zgrep: swat shachaf for his pushkin pun hth
08:04:22 <shachaf> I was going to complain on the mailing list that this is more compact than DataKinds.
08:04:41 * zgrep даёт shachaf по щеке за его словесные игры
08:04:46 <zgrep> ^ oerjan, will that suffice?
08:04:53 <shachaf> But now that I see that they implemented type application, I guess I'll scrap the complaint.
08:05:01 <shachaf> zgrep: it's missing an important ingredient hth
08:05:26 <shachaf> zgrep: also what do you think of all these russian people
08:05:57 <shachaf> like vissarion belinsky and alexander herzen and mikhail bakunin and ivan turgenev
08:06:11 <shachaf> i saw a play about them. it was pretty good.
08:07:24 <shachaf> oh, herzen is pronounced with a g?
08:07:29 <oerjan> zgrep: not really, it's a flyswatter
08:07:44 * zgrep has grown up in America, and is mostly oblivious to Russian culture :(
08:08:19 <shachaf> zgrep: well these well all 19th century people anyway
08:09:57 <zgrep> Haven't had the chance to meet them recently.
08:10:03 <shachaf> zgrep: well pushkin is also in it
08:11:31 * zgrep has vague recollections of many of those names (pushkin - of course, mikhail bakunin - somewhere, turgenev - also somewhere, gertzeg also rings a bell, but zgrep has not heard of belinsky...)
08:12:05 <shachaf> bakunin was a bit of a clown in the play
08:12:09 <Shubshub> Originally I did have a +2 and -2 symbol in Gopher
08:12:12 <shachaf> and maybe also in life, if the play is accurate
08:12:14 <Shubshub> But it made the output look fugly
08:14:16 <shachaf> oerjan: So now the order of type variables matters?
08:16:08 <oerjan> . o O ( does this affect the PVP >:) )
08:16:37 <shachaf> And they allow ambiguous types now, too?
08:16:47 <shachaf> So (show . read) :: (Show a, Read a) => String -> String
08:17:13 <shachaf> Isn't there ever an issue with ambiguous types where there are multiple type variables and the compiler needs to choose an order?
08:17:29 <shachaf> Seems really touchy to specify that.
08:17:48 <shachaf> Looks like there's a paper...
08:18:08 <Shubshub> Unicode makes the output go beserk
08:18:49 <oerjan> shachaf: i vaguely think they settled on "you can only use type application on an identifier" to prevent ambiguities
08:19:28 <shachaf> And if I "let f = ambiguousExpression in f @A @B"?
08:20:00 <oerjan> i'm not exactly sure. it's possible f needs a type signature.
08:20:26 <shachaf> "In practice, these guidelines mean that visible type application is available only on types that are given by an annotation."
08:21:21 <shachaf> I don't like making the order matter like that.
08:22:03 <oerjan> it remains to see if this extension will be useable in practice.
08:23:04 <shachaf> Well, I'd certainly be glad to get rid of the whole Proxy nonsense.
08:23:13 <shachaf> By the way, can I have a type as a member of an existential?
08:23:30 <oerjan> (that PVP thing could be an issue ... your code could break because someone not using the extension thought rearranging a type signature was a minor version change)
08:23:45 <shachaf> data T = forall a. K a => T
08:24:18 <shachaf> oerjan: That only matters to people who write real code rather than play with the type system, though.
08:24:19 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't see why not
08:24:36 <shachaf> I don't see why not either, but did they actually implement it?
08:25:20 <shachaf> oerjan: Also versions are scow.
08:25:21 * oerjan isn't _entirely_ up to date to hasekll.
08:25:55 <shachaf> The right way to manage versions is to put all the code in the world into one repository and always keep it up to date.
08:26:51 <oerjan> i'm happy to see you weren't being serious.
08:27:28 <shachaf> I'm not serious in that that's not workable in practice.
08:27:36 <shachaf> But it's what e.g. Google does, and it works pretty well there.
08:28:29 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: That only matters to people who write real code rather than play with the type system, though. <-- yes, but if they use this extension to get rid of Proxys, it might leak into real code pretty soon?
08:29:31 <shachaf> oerjan: the point is why would you or i care about it hth
08:29:54 * oerjan reject the fascism of the keyboard
08:29:59 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm not turing-complete hth
08:30:24 <shachaf> actually someone tried to hire me to write real haskell code the other day
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09:05:08 <shachaf> invent anything good overnight?
09:05:27 <Taneb> I don't know yet, I haven't read the logs
09:06:54 <shachaf> Oh, you find out at the same time as the rest of us?
09:07:59 <Taneb> Not when I'm asleep, no
09:08:17 <shachaf> Well, I always assumed you knew as soon as you invented things.
09:08:28 <shachaf> But I guess you only find out about it from IRC.
09:09:00 <Taneb> I enjoy the surprise
09:10:05 <Taneb> Sometimes, not always or even often
09:10:43 <shachaf> I almost tanebvented a whole bunch of things but I didn't put them in HackEgo.
09:11:49 <shachaf> Taneb: what do you think of sondheim
09:12:14 <Taneb> I was once in a production of Into the Woods once
09:12:48 <shachaf> Hmm, does linear logic deal with things that happen once once?
09:12:54 <shachaf> Or do you need linear linear logic?
09:13:17 <shachaf> Taneb: imo sweeney todd is tg hth
09:14:09 <Taneb> Sweeney Todd is transgender?
09:14:17 <Taneb> I saw that in London a few years ago
09:14:42 <Taneb> Oh, that makes somewhat more sense
09:21:22 <Shubshub> Anyone made anything cool with Gopher yet? :P
09:23:00 <shachaf> zzo38 has been posting a lot of Gopher programs.
09:25:38 <Shubshub> I didnt even add the language before I joined today
09:33:42 <hppavilion[1]> Used to contain the utterance "An unknown source on IRC has verified that everyone knows or reasonably should know about this film. Anyone claiming not to be aware of it, is feigning ignorance."
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09:35:45 <Shubshub> Someone said I should show you my new language
09:36:00 <Shubshub> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Gopher
09:36:33 <Phantom_Hoover> tell them i outsourced that sort of thing to hppavilion[1] some time ago
09:37:35 <hppavilion[1]> Shubshub: I'm not sure whether to be angry by the description. Allow me to investigate the langauge
09:38:45 <hppavilion[1]> Shubshub: OK, it seems like it doesn't trivially reduce to brainfuck without thought. So I'll give you a pass.
09:39:24 * hppavilion[1] considers going through the list of BF Derivatives and giving an approve/deny on the talk page
09:40:15 <Hoolootwo> but the table is only 128 chars long, right?
09:41:21 <hppavilion[1]> Shubshub: OK, you just lost points for confusing those two
09:43:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gopher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46983&oldid=46980 * Shubshub * (+2)
09:48:41 <Shubshub> I should add the ability to have Nested For Loops as an actual symbol
09:48:53 <Shubshub> That way its less reliant on the language the interpreter is written in
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10:00:20 <ski> <shachaf> I don't like making the order matter like that.
10:00:45 <ski> worse, imho, would be to make the actual names used in the quantifier matter
10:00:57 <ski> (iirc, Agda actually does this ?)
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12:24:57 <b_jonas> oerjan, shachaf: Great. So if I use HackEgo here then I'm spamming the channel, and if I use it in private message, then you can't check the logs (despite that there's a mercurial you can just ask for changes in wisdom). I can't win.
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12:35:16 <fizzie> I suppose we don't even have anyone from Hexham on the channel anymore.
12:40:00 <b_jonas> shachaf: I added a lastwisdoms command that prints the last modified wisdoms, with dates when they were last modified. (it's uniqed, so each wisdom printed only once, when it was last modified, since people including me often edit wisdoms multiple times in quick succession)
12:40:23 <b_jonas> there was already a lastfiles command by the way
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12:41:42 <b_jonas> `lastwisdoms does this work?
12:41:55 <HackEgo> 2016-05-08 english channel oerjan #esoteric hfs 2016-05-07 amnesium wisest human gene ray adventure timecube time cube tas ta wisdom/tas 2016-05-06 huh ta acab brainfuck hms pinafore wisdoom tanebvention robot wisdom/tanebvention bbc ciol 2016-05-05 violation 2016-05-04 imho 2016-05-03 substructural typing jnk/userwep
12:42:31 <b_jonas> huh... what's that with ta wisdom/tas there?
12:42:51 <b_jonas> I think if you modify two wisdom entries at the same command it breaks
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12:47:45 <int-e> `? english channel
12:47:47 <HackEgo> If it existed, the English Channel would separate Hexham from Finland.
12:47:59 <HackEgo> An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned after each test.
12:48:49 <b_jonas> int-e: there's two wisdom files changed in that commit, "wisdom/ta" and "wisdom/tas"
12:49:07 <b_jonas> and now I'm trying to find out how to use hg so it prints those unambiguousyl rather than just separated by a space
12:53:22 <int-e> `` hg export --nodates -r tip | grep ^+++
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13:18:36 <fizzie> According to the documentation, you're supposed to... well, to quote:
13:18:39 <fizzie> "Some sample command line templates:
13:18:49 <fizzie> - Join the list of files with a ", ":
13:18:55 <fizzie> $ hg log -r 0 --template "files: {join(files, ', ')}\n"
13:19:05 <fizzie> But that's not a-working.
13:20:05 <fizzie> Hmm, the other sample seems to be working.
13:20:43 <int-e> `` hg log --template "{date|shortdate}:{join(files, '-')}\n"
13:20:47 <HackEgo> ** unknown exception encountered, please report by visiting \ ** http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/BugTracker \ ** Python 2.7.3 (default, Jan 2 2013, 13:56:14) [GCC 4.7.2] \ ** Mercurial Distributed SCM (version 2.2.2) \ ** Extensions loaded: \ Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/usr/bin/hg", line 38, in <module> \ mercurial.dis
13:20:57 <HackEgo> Mercurial Distributed SCM (version 2.2.2) \ (see http://mercurial.selenic.com for more information) \ \ Copyright (C) 2005-2012 Matt Mackall and others \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
13:21:03 <int-e> Mercurial Distributed SCM (version 3.8.1)
13:21:52 <fizzie> Yeah, and the other example that I thought was working -- {files % '{file}\n'} -- just actually does the same as plain {files}, separates them by spaces rather than doing one line per file.
13:22:05 <fizzie> Guess it's just too old.
13:22:18 <fizzie> `` hg help templates | paste
13:22:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.29213
13:23:05 <fizzie> Doesn't mention any of that stuff.
13:34:48 <fizzie> If nothing else, you could DIY it from a "{date|shortdate}\0{rev}\0" template + modify the perl part to pre-expand /^\d+$/ with some suitable hg magic to get files for one revision.
13:35:29 <fizzie> (I like how it just goes and crashes when given something it doesn't grok.)
13:35:50 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, but how do I distinguish between someone modifying one file "wisdom/a wisdom/b" and someone modifying two files "wisdom/a" and "wisdom/b"?
13:36:18 <fizzie> I'm sure you can get the list of files for *one* revision in a not-just-space-separated form.
13:37:16 <b_jonas> technically, you could test for each file with a file pattern I think
13:37:22 <b_jonas> but that would be ugly work
13:37:39 <fizzie> (int-e had a "hg export | grep ^+++"-y approach that looks plausible, for the single revision case.)
13:40:41 <fizzie> # ps auxww | fgrep -c '[python] <defunct>'
13:40:56 <fizzie> Someone should really make the hackbot code wait for those pythons.
13:41:03 <int-e> hg status --change <commit> -n0 would be even better, but it's way too slow.
13:41:22 <int-e> I wonder how many of those are my fault.
13:42:29 <b_jonas> argh, hackego is so slow now
13:42:56 <fizzie> So many umlbox processes as well.
13:43:09 <int-e> let's pile them on
13:47:42 <lambdabot> EGLL 081220Z AUTO 12015KT 9999 NCD 26/08 Q1006 NOSIG
13:54:55 <b_jonas> ``` hg diff -c 7938 | grep ^diff
13:54:59 <HackEgo> diff -r ff34e0948c3e -r b4d8bd1a2c8f wisdom/ta \ diff -r ff34e0948c3e -r b4d8bd1a2c8f wisdom/tas
13:55:02 <b_jonas> fizzie: the diff idea might work
13:55:31 <b_jonas> I think I'll just leave it this way
13:55:44 <b_jonas> if you change more than one wisdom entry, you'll get that junk in the output, so what
13:55:59 <b_jonas> I don't care enough to work around your stupid mercurials for this
13:56:05 <fizzie> You also get non-wisdom junk if you change wisdom and non-wisdom files.
13:56:21 <fizzie> 12:41 <HackEgo> 2016-05-08 english channel oerjan #esoteric hfs 2016-05-07 amnesium wisest human gene ray adventure timecube time cube tas ta wisdom/tas 2016-05-06 huh ta acab brainfuck hms pinafore wisdoom tanebvention robot wisdom/tanebvention bbc ciol 2016-05-05 violation 2016-05-04 imho 2016-05-03 substructural typing jnk/userwep
13:56:27 <fizzie> See "jnk/userwep" on the above output.
13:56:35 <fizzie> It may have been pushed off by now.
13:56:51 <b_jonas> oh whatever, I'm not interested
13:57:18 <b_jonas> I gave it an honest attempt, but if mercurial is just stupid
13:57:34 <b_jonas> then I'll rather work on making termbot better or something
13:57:56 <fizzie> An up-to-date version would make it trivial.
13:58:17 <fizzie> I should maybe look into whether I could update the system in that chroot.
13:59:30 <fizzie> (I mean, with a current version it should be just --template "{date|shortdate}\0{join(files,'\0')}\0" to get the sort of list you want.)
14:01:24 <b_jonas> fizzie: and a faster hackego
14:01:49 <b_jonas> hmm... as for termbot, I split it the emulated image to two disks, a system disk and a user disk
14:02:07 <int-e> `` /bin/ls -t .hg/store/data/wisdom/** | perl -pe 'chomp; s=^.hg/store/data/wisdom/(.*).i$=\1 =; s=_(.)=uc($1)=eg; s=~([0-9a-f][0-9a-f])=chr(hex($1))=eg'
14:02:09 <HackEgo> english channel oerjan #esoteric hfs amnesium wisest human gene ray adventure timecube time cube tas huh ta acab brainfuck hms pinafore wisdoom tanebvention bbc ciol violation imho userweps 🐚 overlord alpha companion cube butterfly cipation password wat tribble prefixes itymology philosophy ¿ insurance numbe
14:02:11 <b_jonas> the system disk can be reverted, and I can upgrade it without affecting the user disk
14:02:23 <b_jonas> so I can upgrade the system easily without losing data on the user disk
14:02:54 <b_jonas> the intent is that if you mess up something in the image, then you can revert the system disk with an irc command, and it should boot fine
14:03:05 <b_jonas> that almost works, but not quite,
14:03:13 <b_jonas> the irc command currently doesn't work but I can fix that,
14:03:29 <b_jonas> and there's one more problem
14:04:17 <b_jonas> the user disk is used a little at boot up, so if you mess it up a lot then you can't fix it throuhg irc because the system won't boot
14:04:28 <b_jonas> I should at least fix the revert command
14:05:51 <b_jonas> maybe I could have two commands, one for restoring the user disk, one for restoring the system disk
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14:48:50 <HackEgo> /2016-05-08/ english channel // oerjan // #esoteric // hfs // /2016-05-07/ amnesium // wisest human // gene ray // adventure // timecube // time cube // tas // /2016-05-06/ huh // ta // acab // brainfuck // hms pinafore // wisdoom // tanebvention // bbc // ciol // /2016-05-05/ violation // /2016-05-04/ imho // /2016-05-03/ userweps // 🐚 // ov
14:50:23 <int-e> It's become terribly ugly. :)
14:50:43 <Taneb> `? /2016-05-06/ huh
14:50:45 <HackEgo> /2016-05-06/ huh? ¯\(°_o)/¯
14:50:50 <int-e> Taneb: it's a DATE
14:50:53 <coppro> Taneb: those are just the dates they were added hth
14:51:25 * int-e thought about it. // is impossible to fake, and a leading / as well.
14:51:41 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, gazpacho, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
14:51:43 <int-e> (well, "impossible")
14:51:50 <int-e> there's always zero-width spaces
14:52:00 <HackEgo> You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
14:52:12 <int-e> `cat bin/lastwisdoms
14:52:12 <HackEgo> find .hg/store/data/wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 /bin/ls -t | perl -pe 'use POSIX;chop;$d=strftime("%F",localtime((stat($_))[9]));s=^.hg/store/data/wisdom/(.*).i$=\1 // =;s=^=/$d/ = if$d ne$p;$p=$d;s=_(.)=uc($1)=eg;s=~([0-9a-f][0-9a-f])=chr hex$1=eg'
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14:54:11 <b_jonas> “those are just the dates they were added hth” added or deleted, unless you changed that too
14:54:36 <b_jonas> it shows deleted wisdoms too
14:54:40 <b_jonas> that is probably a feature
14:54:52 <int-e> (since it's not actually looking at the commits but at the hg store... not sure what happens when you rename files.)
14:54:55 <b_jonas> (it doesn't show people sneakily editing bin/\? though)
14:55:09 <int-e> feel free to revert... but I had to push this approach through
14:55:29 <b_jonas> int-e: if you're talking about the formatting, it's fine for me
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14:56:41 <int-e> renames should show the "new" file. so they are visible
14:57:16 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi wisdom/{,professor\ }gene\ ray
14:57:18 <HackEgo> `wisdom/gene ray' -> `wisdom/professor gene ray'
14:57:25 <HackEgo> /2016-05-08/ professor gene ray // english channel // oerjan // #esoteric // hfs // /2016-05-07/ amnesium // wisest human // gene ray // adventure // timecube // time cube // tas // /2016-05-06/ huh // ta // acab // brainfuck // hms pinafore // wisdoom // tanebvention // bbc // ciol // /2016-05-05/ violation // /2016-05-04/ imho // /2016-05-03/
14:57:33 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi wisdom/{professor\ ,}gene\ ray
14:57:36 <HackEgo> `wisdom/professor gene ray' -> `wisdom/gene ray'
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14:58:11 <b_jonas> int-e: seems it shows only the new name, not the deleted old name. that could be a problem if someone moves a file out of wisdom, or even hg accidentally detecting a rename out of wisdom
14:59:33 <b_jonas> but the goal is to make sure oerjan or shachaf can see all the stupid wisdoms I add, then it's fine
14:59:44 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
15:00:01 <b_jonas> `learn wisdoms.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'wisdoms.pdf': wisdoms.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:06 <b_jonas> `learn wisdoms.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:09 <HackEgo> Relearned 'wisdoms.pdf': wisdoms.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:15 <b_jonas> `learn wisdom.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:18 <HackEgo> Relearned 'wisdom.pdf': wisdom.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:19 <HackEgo> wisdom.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:43 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
15:00:48 <HackEgo> wisdom.pdf is https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:00:49 <int-e> yeah, deletions are invisible to that version... since they don't affect the file store, only metadata
15:00:58 <b_jonas> `learn wisdom.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:01:00 <HackEgo> Relearned 'wisdom.pdf': wisdom.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
15:01:31 <b_jonas> int-e: ok, I don't know how hg works and don't even want to learn it
15:01:51 <b_jonas> it's enough for me to try to understand git and its stupid synatx
15:02:02 <int-e> the sane solution is to update mercurial to a version that supports the {join()} stuff
15:02:12 <b_jonas> in git, ":/" is magic syntax for two completely different things. it's horrible.
15:02:45 <b_jonas> int-e: hmm, if we install a second mercurial in user-space, will it be able to read this repo?
15:04:54 <b_jonas> are there binaries we can install to any path, or do we have to build from source for that?
15:05:30 <b_jonas> (my principle is that I prefer solutions where we just upgrade well-maintined tools rather than try to work around stuff in old versions)
15:05:46 <b_jonas> (tends to reduce code duplication)
15:07:00 <b_jonas> if only this damned hackego had less latency
15:07:08 <int-e> I don't know. It's mostly python, but I don't know how they deal with changing file paths.
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15:08:42 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/ls: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ /hackenv/bin/ls: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/ls: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/ls: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/ls: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/ls: fork: retry: No child processes
15:08:53 <int-e> shachaf broke that
15:09:27 <int-e> `` sed -i 's=(ls=(/bin/ls=' bin/ls
15:09:35 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
15:10:20 <b_jonas> ``` ps o "cmd" | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
15:14:06 <b_jonas> ah nice, the hackego has multiarch lib directories
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15:21:20 <b_jonas> You know about the date format stuff?
15:22:24 <b_jonas> apparently there's at least three different short format to identify an episode in a *tv series* by the ordinal of the season and the ordinal of the episode within the season together.
15:22:52 <b_jonas> there's like "S6 E7", "607", and "6x07" and those are just the common ones
15:23:35 <b_jonas> I think it's partly because people upload tv series episodes to video websites like youtube and want to make the name less easy to search so that youtube doesn't find it so quickly or something
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15:27:10 <lambdabot> Local time for tromp is Sun May 8 10:27:10 2016
15:27:23 <HackEgo> I think you might mean !logs
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15:28:01 <\oren\> yes, roman numerals. really.
15:28:57 <\oren\> also, I hate the way a lot of the tools at my workplace use american date format and I always get it wrong the first time
15:29:27 <\oren\> the UN should pass a resolution against middle-endian dates
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15:40:59 <b_jonas> at least I have aliases lik
15:41:03 <HackEgo> 2016-05-08 14:40:59.791682000+00:00
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15:43:00 <HackEgo> Sun May 8 14:42:57 UTC 2016
15:45:57 <zzo38> How do I check for reason why the computer rebooted (if it is due to the operating system rather than hardware)?
15:46:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: um, dunno, try to look in system logs for what happened before the reboot
15:53:26 <zzo38> How do I know which one is when it rebooted?
15:57:22 <zzo38> There are a lot of lines like this in the system log: May 7 22:39:01 zzo38computer CRON[23932]: (root) CMD ( [ -x /usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime ] && [ -d /var/lib/php5 ] && find /var/lib/php5/ -depth -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type f -cmin +$(/usr/lib/php5/maxlifetim
15:58:16 <zzo38> Can you tell me what it is for? It seem to be something related to PHP but why does it need to do that every half hour it seems?
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15:58:31 <b_jonas> oh by the way, zzo38: I took my old termbot and modified a little bit, and I'll try to improve it a bit more to make it more useful
15:58:38 <b_jonas> it's currently running in #termbot in a partly broken state
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15:59:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: as for that cron entry, try to look in your crontab (there's two of them, beware, a system one in /etc/cron.* and a per-user one in /var/spool/cron/crontabs )
16:01:32 <zzo38> O, it purges old sessions. I don't use PHP sessions, so should I disable that?
16:02:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know, but I don't see why that would be a problem or why it would be related to your reboot
16:03:09 <b_jonas> if you don't use php sessions and want to disable the purge cron task, then maybe also try to change the system so that if something tries to create a php session there, it fails
16:03:12 <zzo38> I think the reboot was due to power failure actually; I just looked at my clock now and it is flashing.
16:03:18 <int-e> it's nice to have some useless cronjob around that narrows down the time of the crash :P
16:03:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: ah, that's quite possible
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16:03:49 <b_jonas> is there a UPS before that computer/
16:04:13 <zzo38> The computer does have a UPS but the battery does not work so it is only acting as a surge protector.
16:05:12 <b_jonas> I have a separate surge protector and no UPS
16:06:04 <b_jonas> although I'm not sure this surge protector actually works
16:06:08 <b_jonas> maybe I should buy a new one...
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16:44:32 <zzo38> Do you like the JavaScript implementation of Internet Quiz Engine?
16:45:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know anything about that.
16:45:35 <zzo38> It is http://zzo38computer.org/inquiz/inquiz.js
16:46:07 <zzo38> The C implementation is the canonical version though and new features will still be added to the C version first.
16:46:11 <b_jonas> this is awesome, I didn't know about this => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen
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16:46:48 <b_jonas> the awesome part isn't that such a thing can exist, or even that it might exist in the cores of gas giant planets
16:47:25 <b_jonas> the awesome part is that experimental physicists say “core of Jupiter, eh? that sounds easy enough, let's build machines to replicate it.”
16:47:34 <zzo38> On period table hydrogen is on the left side, with the metals
16:48:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: that it can become liquid at high pressure isn't too surprising
16:48:26 <b_jonas> but that physicists seriously consider to test that experimentally by creating the large pressure, that is
16:49:26 <b_jonas> experimental physicists are also writing articles about plausible ways of very expensive space-borne equipment to use some sort of lasers in space to create negative energy and wormholes and a time machine or something
16:50:35 <b_jonas> they can't fund it yet because it would cost much more than some more space-based gravitational wave detector, which is already too expensive to get funded yet (although there are plans, both in China and outside) and would be MUCH more important and useful than any of the time machine stuff
16:51:17 <b_jonas> but still, they don't just shrug it off as a practical impossibility and say it's the theoretical physicist's job to figure out how that stuff works and they can't help
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16:57:06 <b_jonas> moon___: I figured out that the revert system disk command is currently broken, and wouldn't work if you tried it, so I disabled it for now,
16:57:14 <b_jonas> but I can still revert the system disk manually when necessary
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17:29:14 <zzo38> Maybe I should add into inquiz.js the ability to parse namespaced comments, in case you want to use them for formatting in a custom front-end.
17:30:56 <shachaf> b_jonas: I think "mutating commands or commands that are interesting to other people go in the channel" is a reasonable rule.
17:36:34 <b_jonas> shachaf: ok, I'll try to put more of the wisdom editing stuff in the channel then
17:36:42 <b_jonas> even if it's boring and spamming
17:36:54 <b_jonas> for now, just check out those ones in `lastwisdoms or something
17:36:55 <shachaf> Well, if it's boring, it probably oughtn't happen at all.
17:37:13 <HackEgo> /2016-05-08/ hydrogen // wisdom.pdf // wisdoms.pdf // gene ray // professor gene ray // english channel // oerjan // #esoteric // hfs // /2016-05-07/ amnesium // wisest human // adventure // timecube // time cube // tas // /2016-05-06/ huh // ta // acab // brainfuck // hms pinafore // wisdoom // tanebvention // bbc // ciol // /2016-05-05/ violat
17:37:33 <HackEgo> Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA.
17:37:37 <HackEgo> Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA.
17:37:39 <HackEgo> You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
17:37:40 <HackEgo> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t
17:37:43 <HackEgo> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t
17:37:54 <HackEgo> wisdom.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
17:37:58 <HackEgo> wisdoms.pdf Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
17:38:08 <b_jonas> there, now you've hopefully seen them
17:38:21 <b_jonas> though there's some older ones I added earlier
17:38:25 <shachaf> That entry is too long. It's getting cut off.
17:38:41 <b_jonas> entirely approperiate in this case I think
17:39:08 <b_jonas> ``` \? time\ cube | dd bs=10 skip=30
17:39:11 <HackEgo> 10+1 records in \ 10+1 records out \ 106 bytes (106 B) copied, 0.26676 s, 0.4 kB/s \ her days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
17:39:21 <HackEgo> Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise.
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17:46:19 <tswett> So, about Pentavus: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pentavus
17:46:40 <tswett> It has this ability: "(1), Remove a +1/+1 counter from Pentavus: Put a 1/1 colorless Pentavite artifact creature token with flying onto the battlefield."
17:46:55 <tswett> And also this one: "(1), Sacrifice a Pentavite: Put a +1/+1 counter on Pentavus."
17:47:31 <tswett> I wonder what would happen if it didn't have that second ability, and that first ability instead said:
17:48:07 <tswett> (1), Remove a +1/+1 counter from Pentavus: Put a 1/1 colorless Pentavite artifact creature token with flying onto the battlefield. It has "(1), Sacrifice Pentavite: Put a +1/+1 counter on Pentavus."
17:49:28 <b_jonas> tswett: no way. then you'd somehow have to remember which Pentavus was created from where. It'd be a serious memory issue, and I'm not even sure the rules support that. Also, you couldn't sacrifice lorwyn-goats to the Pentavus then.
17:49:48 <shachaf> Do you mean "a creature named Pentavus"?
17:49:51 <tswett> Use bits of string to keep track.
17:50:00 <tswett> shachaf: no, I mean Pentavus.
17:51:12 <tswett> Yeah, lay one end of the string on a Pentavite and the other end on its Pentavus.
17:51:36 <zzo38> It could say "on the permanent that created this token" if you want to clarify but yes you will need to keep track.
17:53:29 <b_jonas> zzo38: no way. "on the permanent that created this token" would be disastrous because it's no longer clear it's linked to the first ability or how it even works if that penatvite was created as a copy (eg. by a populate ability)
17:55:04 <zzo38> Then it would be placed on the permanent with the populate ability (if it is a permanent that still exists). Also you can sacrifice it and do nothing if the permanent that created it is now gone. Although, writing "{1}, Sacrifice this creature: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~." could be worked too yes, I suppose. I am not sure if rule support it or not
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17:55:38 <quintopia> zzo38: what is something a lot of people enjoy doing that you would NEVER do?
17:56:26 <zzo38> I can't think of any thing else that a lot of people do but I don't.
17:56:38 <tswett> I'm pretty sure the rules do support this... I feel like I saw a real card that used this sort of thing.
17:57:18 <tswett> `unidecode Saint Petersburg
17:57:19 <HackEgo> [U+0053 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0050 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER P] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S
17:57:29 <tswett> `unidecode Saint Petersburg
17:57:30 <HackEgo> [U+0053 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0050 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER P] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S
17:57:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think you can refer to the identity of the card that gives an ability only if the ability that gives the ability is a continuous one, like on Blazing Torch
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17:58:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: what if the token is copied by a Clone?
17:58:30 <zzo38> quintopia: It is possible I could write fiction I don't know
17:58:47 <tswett> Oh yeah, Blazing Torch is this sort of thing.
17:58:54 <tswett> My answer to quintopia's question would be smoking tobacco.
17:59:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: I for one think the way pentavus works is the best. They can integrate with any Penatvite, including crib swapped babies, not only Pentavites created by them. Much simpler.
17:59:24 <zzo38> b_jonas: Then nothing created it, so my proposed version would do nothing if you sacrifice the Clone.
17:59:50 <b_jonas> that's the one I was looking fro
17:59:59 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes I think that does work, it can even work with other permanents with the Pentavite subtype (including ones with changeling)
18:00:14 <b_jonas> Hankyu is the best example for a continuous effect that grants an ability that refers to the permanent with the ability with that effect
18:00:14 <shachaf> zzo38 writes fiction. Haven't you read danddreclist?
18:00:37 <b_jonas> I just couldn't recall its name
18:00:41 <zzo38> And it mean you can use Artificial Evolution to modify it
18:00:49 <b_jonas> (it's not a good card, mind you)
18:01:08 <quintopia> shachaf: i have but i don't remember what it is
18:01:10 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes there is that. I don't know how much other fiction I would really write, or how many books in general I would write.
18:01:24 <quintopia> shachaf: was it ideas for campaigns or documenting past campaigns?
18:01:31 <zzo38> Although smoking is also something I would probably never do
18:02:20 <quintopia> smoking is decreasingly popular anyway. even vaping seems no more popular than cigarettes were not long ago
18:03:10 <zzo38> Yes I know that too, that is why I did not mention it at first; it isn't so popular in more recent times
18:03:20 <b_jonas> is smoking decreasing really? I thought it decreased until the 2000s but now it's sort of stagnating
18:03:55 <zzo38> Another thing I am unlikely to do is to carry a cellular phone with touch screen and whatever
18:04:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: the touch screen is just half of what bothers me
18:04:44 <zzo38> Why do you want to know what is something a lot of people enjoy but I don't?
18:04:48 <b_jonas> about those phones that is
18:05:02 <zzo38> It is to me also just half of what bothers me though
18:05:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Why wouldn't you carry a cellular phone with touch screen and whatever?
18:05:48 <b_jonas> I'll have to find a good traditional mobile phone for my grandmother and eventually (possibly only a few years later) for myself. And it's getting increasingly difficult.
18:06:07 <zzo38> I can use a landline phone.
18:06:36 <shachaf> zzo38: Only when you're on land.
18:06:38 <quintopia> http://pepesnonsmokingpartytimelounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Smoking-rates.jpg seems to still be declining
18:07:28 <b_jonas> quintopia: that's for the US
18:07:41 <b_jonas> I'm more interested about Europe, and the urbanized parts
18:07:44 <quintopia> zzo38: mainly because i wondered on the probability you would consider writing a novel. i know a lot of people who like writing.
18:08:21 <zzo38> I don't know what is the probability that I would consider writing a novel. It is very difficult for me to answer, but I am more likely to write a computer program anyways.
18:08:50 <int-e> "Smoking is rising alarmingly in Austria; the Eurobarometer found an increase of smoking prevalence in Austria from 31% (2006) to 33% (2012)." (sigh)
18:08:54 <quintopia> b_jonas: dropping everywhere but russia: http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/smoking-rates-oecd.jpg
18:09:08 <shachaf> zzo38: What if it was a novel computer program?
18:09:18 <zzo38> How would that be?
18:10:14 <lambdabot> *** "novel" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
18:10:14 <lambdabot> adj 1: original and of a kind not seen before; "the computer
18:10:14 <lambdabot> produced a completely novel proof of a well-known
18:10:14 <lambdabot> theorem" [syn: {fresh}, {new}, {novel}]
18:10:30 <shachaf> As we know, computer programs are proofs.
18:11:18 <b_jonas> quintopia: that's the change in period 1990 to 2010. smoking was certainly declining between 1990 and 2000, I know that.
18:11:33 <zzo38> O, that's how it is. Yes certainly possibly it can be
18:12:04 <zzo38> How do I know if the program is similar to other one or not? I do not necessarily know, because I wrote it independently.
18:12:05 <quintopia> (there's no more recent data for all of europe or the world readily available)
18:12:17 <quintopia> but there is this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zbX7pcC-glo/TzW7zTA7n4I/AAAAAAAAA24/fXpONiMaO8Y/s1600/Smoking+obesity.JPG
18:12:30 <int-e> "One reason for this may be because Austria is one of the last EU countries where the minimum age for purchasing tobacco is 16 years of age. In 2006, state revenues from sales to minors amounted to €60.5 billion -- a breath-taking sum of money." -- brilliant word choice near the end.
18:12:32 <quintopia> looks like people are turning in their cigarettes for food
18:13:10 <b_jonas> int-e: oh, there might be a point in that
18:13:37 <b_jonas> in Hungary, these days it's actually enforced that people under 18 can't buy tobacco (they can still smoke, but they can't buy it)
18:14:00 <b_jonas> and the same is enforced about alcohol
18:14:21 <b_jonas> I'm not sure when exactly that started, after 2000 or before
18:14:33 <b_jonas> there's of course still tons of ways around it
18:17:15 <b_jonas> eg. since a few months ago, Blaha Lujza tér actually has a nice huge banner next to the McDonalds that buying or selling cigarettes without tax stickers is illegal, advertising to everyone the exact spot where you can meet the shady people who sell untaxed tobacco when the policemen don't happen to be around
18:17:53 <b_jonas> there's a few other spots in the city, like Bosnyák tér, but there aren't many, so the prominent banner helps a lot to anyone who's looking for that sort of thing.
18:21:19 <b_jonas> I laughed hard when they put up that banner.
18:21:42 <tromp> thx for the commits. you've been real busy:)
18:23:00 <int-e> still haven't figured out why the self-distributive law actually works out in the end
18:23:14 <tromp> there's one big mystery in your laver2.lam though
18:23:19 <int-e> I guess I could read the literature.
18:23:52 <tromp> i wld expect f_a^{mx-b}(a-1)
18:24:17 <tromp> where you have f_a^{mxb)(0)
18:24:23 <int-e> mx * b = -b (mod mx+1)
18:24:53 <int-e> (and mx+1 = 2^n is a multiple of the period of the f_a thing)
18:26:22 <tromp> aha; that's cute! but why (0) instead of (a-1) ?
18:27:12 <tromp> oh, the code actually uses a-1, just the comment is wrong
18:28:44 <int-e> because mx - b = -b-1 (mod 2^n), but I'm computing -b (mod 2^n), so I need to go one more step back in the iteration.
18:29:04 <int-e> no, it uses 0: (\f\x. x)
18:29:34 <int-e> the pred is part of the implementation of f_a
18:30:32 <int-e> (context if anybody else cares: https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/laver2.lam )
18:33:46 <tromp> i need to convince myself that that all recursion is founded:)
18:34:24 <int-e> have you seen the haskell program?
18:34:56 <int-e> it may be easier to reason about... and to play around with
18:35:11 <tromp> i ran it once; didn't study source yet
18:35:41 * int-e will go for a walk while it's still light outside, see you later
18:38:54 <tromp> i shld call my mom:-)
18:43:13 <\oren\> yay, pressing backspace no longer causes a segmentation fault!
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18:43:36 <zzo38> \oren\: In what program is that?
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18:43:48 <\oren\> I'm writing a text editor
18:44:21 <b_jonas> \oren\: great! I'd like one as well
18:45:22 <b_jonas> I'd like a good text editor, but creating one would be very difficult. I was thinking about it, and there are lots of difficult parts. I might still try at some point, but not yet.
18:45:50 <zzo38> I think vim is mostly good
18:46:07 <\oren\> I started by writing a string library and my own nih version of ncurses
18:46:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: I can tell what I really don't like in vim if someone wants a rant.
18:47:02 <zzo38> OK you can say. (There are a few thing I also don't like on vim but I think it is mostly good)
18:47:46 <b_jonas> (it's things emacs has got right, but I also don't like emacs)
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18:48:27 <zzo38> I think many things built-in doesn't need to be it can use external programs instead and implement macros to execute them.
18:49:07 <b_jonas> What I really don't like is how it treats newlines specially, so I can't place my cursor on a newline. This limitation implies you have to use lots of extra commands to be able to do everything:
18:49:53 <b_jonas> you have a separate i and a to be able to insert before or after a character, p and P to put before or after the cursor, lots of crazy movements to be able to yank any substring, etc.
18:50:15 <b_jonas> There's also the line-wise and inclusive movements and line-wise yank-puts that I don't like, which is somewhat similar.
18:51:09 <myname> i and a would most likely be there even if you can select a newline
18:51:09 <b_jonas> In emacs, you can just put the cursor on any character or past the last character, and then insert or put before that character, or delete between any two cursor positions, and this means you can do anything after you learn a few basic commands.
18:51:20 <myname> just because of I and A
18:51:58 <b_jonas> I like how in vim there are lots of extra commands to be able to do things more conveniently, but still, I'd like to be able to do things with very few commands as a beginner, rather than having to learn lots of extra commands because of stupid limitations forced on me.
18:52:53 <myname> i like vim having kind of a grammar
18:54:09 <b_jonas> As a particular example, consider how backspacing characters works in emacs. To backspace characters right to left from the cursor from any point in the line other than the end, you press X repeatedly. To backspace characters from the end of the line, you have your cursor on the last character of the line, then press x repeatedly, where x normally deletes characters ahead of you from left to right, but in this case it works backwards. It's mind-screwing.
18:54:47 <FireFly> b_jonas: I don't see how "crazy movements for yanking" relates to not being able to move atop a newline
18:59:01 <b_jonas> FireFly: that's mostly about the inclusive-exclusive and linewise stuff. my cursor is inside a non-empty line, 3 characters from the end. how do I yank characters up to before the newline? you can press y3l or y$ despite that 3l or $ wouldn't actually move to the newline, it would move to before it.
18:59:58 <b_jonas> how do you cut characters up to the end of the line including the newline? It's dv+ right? you wouldn't know if you didn't read that crazy stuff from the manual in detail like I do.
19:00:08 <b_jonas> but these are the easy ones where there's a movement
19:00:27 <ybden> Hmm, what does v+ do?
19:00:30 <b_jonas> if there's no suitable movement, normally you select a range by marking one end with mb then yank with d`b
19:01:15 <b_jonas> ybden: dunno, vi magic. you're not supposed to know, because vi doesn't work like that. you have to like read the manual for years to be able to figure out basic stuff like this. it's not like learning 50 simple commands and being able to do everything.
19:01:22 <b_jonas> FireFly: that doesn't yank the newline, does it?
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19:01:28 <FireFly> Since visual-mode allows me to select the newline at the end of the line
19:01:40 <b_jonas> if there's no suitable movement, normally you select a range by marking one end with mb then yank with d`b -- if you want to yank to the end of a line, this doesn't work, because you can't mark a newline
19:01:43 <FireFly> it seems to when I tried it no
19:02:08 <b_jonas> FireFly: no, but v+y works I think
19:02:35 <FireFly> I get the same behaviour if I v$d or v+d
19:02:40 <ybden> b_jonas: v$d/y does indeed delete/yank the line
19:02:53 <b_jonas> FireFly: v$y lets you select up to the newline, and yank before it, because in visual mode $ actually lets you move to the newline, which you aren't normally allowed to do,
19:03:06 <b_jonas> and v+y lets you yank including the newline just like yv$ does
19:04:30 <FireFly> I don't get the behaviour you describe when I v$y
19:04:42 <b_jonas> Another example, this one about acting on a whole line with operators
19:05:45 <b_jonas> To indent this line and the next one (two lines together) you press >2> right? easy peasy. How do you indent two lines by three places? 3>2> you'd think? no good, that doesn't work. >2>2. doesn't work either.
19:06:14 <b_jonas> > just doesn't accept a repeat count, no matter what you do, because it applies the repeat count to the range
19:06:16 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:35: parse error on input ‘,’
19:07:11 <b_jonas> I have NO FUCKING IDEA HOW I CAN INDENT WITH A NUMERICAL REPEAT COUNT SHORT OF qq>2>q2@q
19:07:13 <zzo38> The indentation command don't work so well so I use my own
19:08:27 <myname> there are a lot of configs that mark the lines you just indebted
19:08:34 <myname> so you can just > again
19:08:35 <b_jonas> I would like a vim where all the movement commands are strictly character-based exclusive, and you could put the cursor to any newline (not just those in empty lines) and one past the end of the file.
19:09:06 <b_jonas> myname: oh right, Vj3> actually works
19:09:29 <ybden> Hmm, what for putting it past the end of the file? Filling a selection with characters?
19:10:28 <myname> b_jonas: go file a pull request on neovim
19:10:34 <b_jonas> ybden: what? it's the same as why you want it at the end of a line. to be able to insert characters anywhere (even the end of the file) with i or put characters anywhere with P or to be able to yank up to anywhere (possibly including the last character of the file too)
19:11:15 <b_jonas> myname: I'm not sure that can even be implemented. don't vim commands sort of assume that the cursor can't be at the eol of a non-empty line and some would just segfault or something if it is?
19:11:25 <ybden> b_jonas: Oh, I misinterpreted that as some number of characters after the EOF
19:11:42 <myname> b_jonas: you can check for it :p
19:13:08 <b_jonas> myname: no thanks. editor, terminal emulator, shell, those are the kind of programs that I want really stable and never segfault on me or have bugs. and this includes I compile urxvt without a perl interpreter embedded in it, unlike everyone else, because the right way to make a terminal emulator stable and never segfault on me is to make it small rather than to put a whole perl interpreter and all sorts of "plugins" in the same fucking process.
19:13:30 <b_jonas> If I want fancy additions, I put them in external processes, like text filters invoked with the | command for an editor.
19:14:22 <myname> what stuff can you do with plugins on urxvt? :o
19:15:11 <zzo38> I agree to use external program for many kind of things, vim can do that too but also has built-in stuff
19:15:34 <b_jonas> myname: I've no idea? people try to link stuff in every program. it happens at my workplace too. somehow people think that everything absolutely must happen in the same process, so that a memory corruption bug can cause bugs elsewhere in whole process and you can never localize what caused it,
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19:16:15 <b_jonas> and somehow also that writing temporary files is somehow bad and you have to patch everything to be able to put the data in memory instead of into a temporary file.
19:16:31 <b_jonas> I come from the unix world and don't understand how either of these ideas work.
19:16:36 <zzo38> I also wanted to make a terminal emulator. It doesn't need perl interpreter or toolbar or whatever, although I should implement all of the control codes.
19:17:33 <b_jonas> zzo38: terminal emulator is one of those programs I definitely don't want to write, even if I have lots of free time and reimplement lots of stuff, because urxvt is good enough. Sure, I patch urxvt, or debug it, but those are both rare compared to how much it already gets just right.
19:17:41 <myname> there's this terminal emulator for osx that can display pictures
19:18:21 <FireFly> zzo38: you could look at LeoNerd's libvterm library
19:18:38 <FireFly> it has very good control code coverage in my experience
19:18:40 <zzo38> Xterm can display pictures too, by using Sixel graphics.
19:18:43 <b_jonas> There was one bug in urxvt I had to debug, until it turned out that it manifested because I build with strange compilation options. That sort of thing seems to happen a lot in my workplace too, where the programs we develop crash or have bugs in ways that manifest for me much more frequently than for others, because of how I use the programs.
19:19:11 <b_jonas> myname: I don't want that sort of thing in a terminal emulator. I want the terminal emulator to be small and stable.
19:19:23 <zzo38> There are a few control sequences that I deliberately do not want to implement, but I would implement most of the xterm stuff and also a few DEC VT stuff that xterm does not support.
19:19:36 <myname> there's this one feature i think is neat: scrolling in time
19:20:32 <HackEgo> .ACTION swats myname -----###.
19:20:41 <b_jonas> zzo38: yeah, there's a few features I am considering to deliberately disable in urxvt too
19:20:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: there's one I already conditionally disabled, namely mouse support
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19:21:12 <zzo38> So I would also have it to display pictures using Sixel graphics. (There are other protocols that may be used by some terminal emulators for display pictures but I don't put any of those)
19:21:14 <b_jonas> s/mouse support/application mouse support/
19:22:25 <zzo38> I would make it to change the mouse cursor shape to XC_arrow when application mouse support is selected so that you can easily tell the difference, if you hold shift it changes back to XC_xterm so that you can still use it for the ordinary function too
19:24:35 <b_jonas> anyway, despite all the tiny negatives, urxvt works really well, and I use it a lot, and, I know this is calling fate against me, but still I dare to do it: urxvt has never crashed for me. never.
19:24:39 <b_jonas> not even when I patched it.
19:25:02 <b_jonas> I know it's dangerous to say that, because I recently called out how 7zip never crashes, then a day after that is crashed.
19:25:11 <b_jonas> but I'm confident I can do that for urxvt.
19:26:06 <zzo38> Also I would support only the X bitmap fonts and no antialiased fonts or other formats.
19:26:56 <notfowl> Where can I get an SSH acct
19:27:30 <b_jonas> zzo38: currently I use urxvt with X bitmap fonts, but I think eventually I may want to display graymap fonts in it, because graymap font can be more readable than a bitmap one
19:27:32 <zzo38> Also many resource settings are not needed because it can instead be done by adding one resource containing initialization string which is executed when the terminal resets; any escape codes in there are parsed to set the terminal settings.
19:28:30 <b_jonas> I am making my font bigmap because it's easier to create and use, not because bitmap is somehow inherently better than graymap, I don't know about \oren\
19:31:12 <zzo38> I think bitmap fonts is better in most cases
19:31:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: you're not using some sort of ultra-high resolution monitor, are you?
19:32:14 <b_jonas> as in, one with resolution higher than 150 pixels per inch
19:32:50 <b_jonas> if you were using a 360 dpi monitor, then I could understand saying that bitmap fonts are better
19:33:04 <zzo38> It isn't ultra-high resolution
19:34:41 <zzo38> It is 96 pixels per inch it looks like
19:35:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: right, so normal resolution.
19:37:29 <zzo38> Yes and I am using xterm with the default "fixed" bitmap font.
19:37:55 <b_jonas> zzo38: didn't you have some sort of modified font?
19:38:30 <tswett> "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you cast Santhon Airood, sacrifice it unless you exile it, and put it onto the battlefield. Then destroy it."
19:39:12 <tswett> That's from a RoboRosewater card.
19:41:53 <zzo38> tswett: It is no sense, I think.
19:42:26 <tswett> "If you cast Santhon Airood" is an interesting condition. I'm trying to figure out what it means.
19:42:30 <b_jonas> tswett: what object are you destroying?
19:42:41 <tswett> The object that you put onto the battlefield.
19:42:51 <b_jonas> oh, a RoboRosewater card. that explains it.
19:43:11 <b_jonas> tswett: I think "If you cast Santhon Airood" does makes sense. it's the "Then destroy it." which I don't get.
19:43:24 <b_jonas> tswett: there are cards with conditions like "if you cast it" for when it etb
19:43:37 <tromp> int-e: i committed tiny improvements, size 212 now
19:43:39 <b_jonas> tswett: Phage is the famousest
19:43:53 <tswett> You either sacrifice or exile the card. Then you put the sacrificed or exiled card onto the battlefield. Then you put the card that you put onto the battlefield into your graveyard.
19:44:10 <b_jonas> tswett: oh, that's not how I read it
19:44:48 <b_jonas> tswett: I thought you either exile the card and put otb, or else sacrifice it but then don't put otb.
19:45:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:45:16 <b_jonas> it doesn't make much sense in any way
19:45:35 <b_jonas> oh, do you guys remember those random recipes mentioned at some point in this channel?
19:45:40 <b_jonas> they were so funny I lmao on them
19:45:49 -!- heroux has joined.
19:45:51 <b_jonas> I wonder if I can find them
19:46:07 <tswett> I should be able to find those.
19:46:08 <b_jonas> does hackego have a log search?
19:46:13 <b_jonas> they're certainly in the logs
19:46:20 <tswett> https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
19:46:20 <b_jonas> but I don't have a local copy of the logs I think
19:46:36 <b_jonas> `slashlearn recipe/Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
19:46:47 <b_jonas> tswett: thanks, that was quickl
19:46:52 <tswett> "In a mixing bowl, beat butter until smooth. Drain on both sides of the refrigerator."
19:47:15 <b_jonas> yes, they're still very funny
19:47:35 <b_jonas> "In medium saucepan, beat egg whites in a large bowl.)"
19:47:59 <Moon__> sounds like the worst cookbook ever
19:48:03 <tswett> "Cover and simmer for about 10 hours, stirring constantly."
19:48:37 <Moon__> *goes back to document on a circuit based cellular automa8
19:50:00 -!- Caesura|Away has changed nick to Caesura.
19:52:40 <b_jonas> Moon__: it's hilarious to me because it's good with syntax but SO badly screwing up food semantics that even I can see how horribly not working any of those recipes are
19:52:43 <tswett> 1 teaspoon salt. 1 teaspoon salt. Salt and pepper, for leaves. 2 cups Grand Marnier. 3 cups water. 1/2 cup flour, softened. 1/2 cup microwave oil.
19:52:53 <b_jonas> ``` cp -vi wisdom/{recipe,cookbook}
19:52:56 <HackEgo> `wisdom/recipe' -> `wisdom/cookbook'
19:53:09 <tswett> 3 pounds canned thinly sliced salt.
19:53:59 <tswett> 3 pounds meating chile pepper. Whipped topping. Cream, chopped, sweetened, softened, drained, sliced.'
19:54:17 <b_jonas> It doesn't understand how you usually want to stick with either salty ingredients or sweet ones but not both (there are lots of exceptions, but you don't just mix everything at random), it doesn't understand how amounts works so it often tries to take a kilogram of salt with a gram of vegetable,
19:54:58 <b_jonas> and it doesn't understand how the items in the ingredient lists should be at least related to the items you mention in the instructions.
19:54:59 <zzo38> How long do you have to put the oil in microwave though?
19:55:11 <Moon__> so whats makeing this stuff up?
19:55:46 <zzo38> And how much salt and pepper, for leaves?
19:56:06 <zzo38> It says "1 teaspoon salt" twice possibly due to you need for two different mixes.
19:57:21 <tswett> Moon__: a neural net. Karpathy's famous char-rnn program.
19:57:32 <tswett> zzo38: however much the leaves require.
19:57:46 <tswett> b_jonas: I actually thought it did pretty well with amounts.
19:59:05 <pikhq> I don't even think it's "microwaved oil". It's 1/2 cup of microwave oil.
19:59:11 <pikhq> I don't generally oil microwaves.
20:01:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:02:27 <tswett> Microwave oil is that oily stuff that you use to heat things in the microwave if they're not normally microwavable.
20:03:39 <zzo38> I once saw in a book mention a recipe for a Chinese food on a container of bean curd. Other than chicken and bean curd it did not give the amount for any of the ingredients. Also the ingredient list includes "gourmet powder" which is not mentioned in the rest of the recipe. There are also two items not listed in the ingredients which are used later on, which are monosodium and a duck.
20:04:17 <tswett> Maybe "gourmet powder" means MSG.
20:06:06 <b_jonas> I think the cookbook guy is funny because it doesn't seem to have any concept of hardware conservation (fancy people call that "object permanence"), and all babies learn the concept of hardware conservation way before they can form two-word sentences, even in humorous unrealistic fiction with talking babies, because it's such a basic princible you can't have common grounds without it.
20:07:58 <tswett> I think it's probably pretty much incapable of remembering what ingredients it's already mentioned.
20:08:49 <b_jonas> tswett: yeah. and that applies not only to the ingredient list or the instructions, but also the title and header (including title) and the footers
20:11:02 <Moon__> im working on something: https://docs.google.com/document/d/181jLmLri6JhxXStLCDOSMt6iSsDln6z9MBv8UlYOFZE/edit?usp=sharing
20:11:29 <b_jonas> someone should add the best url(s) to wisdom/RoboRosewater
20:12:26 -!- augur has joined.
20:12:49 <b_jonas> a "BASIC SAUCE" made of over 30 ingredients, 6 of which is salt
20:12:55 <b_jonas> I think salt is its favourite ingredient
20:13:47 <b_jonas> "stirring constantly overnight" -- hehe
20:14:04 <Moon__> whats the link to see this maddness
20:14:12 <HackEgo> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
20:14:24 <int-e> tromp: ah, you swapped the arguments, should've tried that
20:15:24 <tromp> also swapped the two versions laver*.lam
20:15:44 <int-e> yes, which made the diff a bit useless...
20:15:44 <tromp> since mine didnt do much yet
20:15:54 <b_jonas> do you think I can just buy Self-raspoted coriander Ironicle in a shop, or do I have to raspot it myself?
20:15:55 <tromp> sorry about that:(
20:16:17 <int-e> I just didn't want to interfere with your work
20:17:01 <b_jonas> "Fill the cacaof and or steaming, or should be for a mortar."
20:17:12 <tromp> feel free to modify laver.lam
20:17:28 <b_jonas> "NOTE: This form of plastic wrap can be furts of hotters and soak breads."
20:18:09 <tromp> btw, row 10 of the 8x8 laver table seems to go like 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 ...
20:18:14 <Moon__> https://docs.google.com/document/d/181jLmLri6JhxXStLCDOSMt6iSsDln6z9MBv8UlYOFZE/edit?usp=sharing
20:18:21 <Moon__> im deviseing a esolang there
20:18:26 <Moon__> feel free to leave comments
20:19:15 <tromp> but it's nice that trhe search can be started from the smallest laver table
20:20:24 <int-e> tromp: oh it seems I broke the pretty-printing part of my program... tsk
20:21:45 <tromp> i noticed something weird about the blc compiler
20:22:09 <tromp> if i add a def: four = two tow; after the one for two, then the size increases by 4 bits
20:22:19 <b_jonas> the humorist Hofi had a show where he made fun of cooking TV shows. He brings up a case where the video shows the cook taking a pan from the cupboard, the audio says "Take a greased pan", and the video cuts to showing a greased pan, saying something to the effect of "what a good idea! I'll store the pan in the cupboard pre-greased too."
20:22:27 <tromp> even though four is not used and should be stripped out
20:22:37 <b_jonas> that's a milder case of this lack of object permanence
20:22:37 <\oren\> Sprinkle each zucchini; add cheese, salt, flour, salt and butter. Add to coat with butter; cook. Add sugar, salt, and almonds.
20:23:04 <int-e> tromp: it can still affect other beta reduction ("inlining") decisions
20:23:13 <b_jonas> these recipes would TOTALLY just use a greased pan, and wouldn't even bother taking a pan off the cupboard or announcing "take". they'd just say "in a greased pan".
20:23:39 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: gtg).
20:23:41 <int-e> (since references to everything defined earlier will look bigger)
20:24:38 <zzo38> Are you going to cook any of these things?
20:25:16 <b_jonas> at least I think it was Hofi… maybe it was someone else
20:25:45 <\oren\> I'm working on my editor
20:26:02 <b_jonas> oh right, you were here, you did mention an editor
20:26:08 <\oren\> now it segfaults when I press down down backspace
20:26:20 <b_jonas> then I told why I don't like vim
20:27:47 <b_jonas> what's the best url(s) for RoboRosewater? if you search, you find lots of references and opinions and twitter posts, but no specific original stuff
20:28:51 <zzo38> This RoboRosewater works for me https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater it also contains a link to the forum which also contains stuff
20:29:09 <b_jonas> `fetch https://gist.githubusercontent.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc/raw/4fac7a2b87d7b4e042c3117dea11b2993239a964/neural%2520net%2520cooking%2520recipes.txt
20:29:16 <HackEgo> 2016-05-08 19:29:11 URL:https://gist.githubusercontent.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc/raw/4fac7a2b87d7b4e042c3117dea11b2993239a964/neural%2520net%2520cooking%2520recipes.txt [83573/83573] -> "neural%20net%20cooking%20recipes.txt" [1]
20:29:36 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ neural%20net%20cooking%20recipes.txt \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
20:29:44 <HackEgo> 8ballreplies \ Complaints.mp3 \ UnicodeData.txt \ WordData \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ cat \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ lua \ maimer \ maimery \ maze \ nothp \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ scapegoats \ sedtest \ units.dat \ usercmds
20:29:58 <int-e> tromp: uh, you destroyed the 16.
20:30:11 <b_jonas> ``` mkdir share/recipe && mv -vi "neural%20net%20cooking%20recipes.txt" share/recipe/recpies.txt
20:30:15 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `share/recipe': File exists
20:30:48 <HackEgo> File: `share/recipe' \ Size: 4096 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 directory \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 927686 Links: 2 \ Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-05-08 19:30:11.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2016-05-08 19:30:10.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2016-05-08 19:30:10.000000000 +000
20:31:11 <b_jonas> ```mv -vi "neural%20net%20cooking%20recipes.txt" share/recipe/recpies.txt
20:31:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``mv: not found
20:31:13 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi "neural%20net%20cooking%20recipes.txt" share/recipe/recpies.txt
20:31:16 <HackEgo> `neural%20net%20cooking%20recipes.txt' -> `share/recipe/recpies.txt'
20:31:34 <int-e> tromp: anyway, the difference is that (\two (\x. x x) two) two becomes (\two (two two)) two instead of (\x. x x) two. But the (\x. x x) should be (\x. x x x)
20:32:19 <tromp> oops, lemme fix that
20:32:37 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
20:32:39 <HackEgo> bash: share/recipe/recipes.txt: No such file or directory
20:33:32 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi share/recipe/rec{pi,ipi}es.txt
20:33:34 <HackEgo> `share/recipe/recpies.txt' -> `share/recipe/recipies.txt'
20:33:39 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
20:33:40 <HackEgo> bash: share/recipe/recipes.txt: No such file or directory
20:33:47 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi share/recipe/rec{ipi,ip}es.txt
20:33:49 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
20:33:50 <HackEgo> `share/recipe/recipies.txt' -> `share/recipe/recipes.txt'
20:33:51 <HackEgo> to a rack. \ Meanwhile, combine all at a time, bacon the eggs on serving platesly. Sprinkle the \ pepper to taste and set aside. And toppings in the oven and brown flavors of \ flour, and the olive oil if needed. Remove the cake. Add lemon \ juice, flour and sugar. Remove from oven and refrigerate at least 4 hours, or \ until ce
20:33:56 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
20:33:57 <HackEgo> ine \ 1 sm Green onions; sliced \ 2 ts Instant cloves \ 1/3 c Chopped onion \ 1/2 c Water; or margarine \ 4 Cloves garlic; chopped \ 3 tb Oil flour \ 1 c Peanuts; crushed \ 1 c Cooked corn chopped \ 1 1/2 c Honey \ 1/4 c Chopped coriander \ 1/4 c Walnut, cut into 2 cups \ 2 c Pa
20:34:13 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>=~y/ \t/ /sr;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
20:34:14 <HackEgo> 1/2 cup bowl, \ invert onto bottom of dough onto a weighright fryer. \ \ Serve in bite-sing four sauce. Steam the rice into a bowl combine the butter. \ Reduce the heat to low, adding more sugar and pepper. Stir in the \ flour, baking soda and pepper. Stir together, salt, and let place for \ about 10 minutes. \ \ Add the beans and sal
20:34:55 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: randomrecipe: not found
20:35:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: recipe: not found
20:35:06 <Moon__> i was contacted by lambda bot with a message: butterfingers
20:35:22 <int-e> `` shuf -n 3 share/recipe/recipes.txt
20:35:24 <HackEgo> Title: CARROT CACOA CHILI CHICKEN \ 2 c Canned cornmeal \ 2/3 c Butter or margarine
20:35:24 <b_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''exec perl -e '\''local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>=~y/ \t/ /sr;'\'' < share/recipe/recipes.txt' > bin/recipe && chmod a+x bin/recipe
20:35:26 <Moon__> someone sent me that message >_>
20:35:30 <HackEgo> dough over the pan. Combine the \ pears, and lemon juice over the first cookie sheet. Garnish with the \ completely with melted butter, stirring, over low heat, uncovered \ for 3 minutes. Spoon a cookie sheet and bake in 375 degree oven for \ 40 minutes or until the meat is tender, turning after the chicken pieces is \ light brown. \ \ Ligh
20:35:31 <HackEgo> es, Also, \ Light in the hot potatoes of only excess. \ \ Source: "Whole" \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: HUNGARIAN SOUR CHERRY POT PHIG PART \ Categories: Desserts \ Yield: 6 Servings \ \ 2 c Sugar \ 2 lb Noother pineapples \ 1 sm Onion; chopped \ 2 cn Walnuts \ 2 Cloves garlic, minced \ 1
20:35:32 <HackEgo> t and then add the mustard seeds and dill well \ potatoes in fork and stir until the mixture is softened. Add the \ remaining ingredients. Add the sugar and blend well. \ Beat in half and stir until they are tender. \ \ From: desserts (Norma) Cholesterol 1996. Diviping the recipe formated by DetErre \ Harmlloupwy Posted by Canadian Mexennt A
20:37:34 <b_jonas> "bake in 375 oven for \ 40 minutes or until the meat is tender, turning after the chicken pieces is \ light brown." make sense
20:37:53 <b_jonas> that's from ALMOND MUSTARD
20:40:33 <b_jonas> although if the chicken pieces are into the paper towels to soften, then how do I see when they're light brown?
20:41:20 <int-e> I imagine that if you wait long enough you'll get all sorts of colors...
20:41:27 <b_jonas> It's funny when it uses words like "the remaining" which only make sense in first place if you do know hardware conservation.
20:42:47 <b_jonas> Ah I see, I bake it for 30 minutes in a medium skillet into the paper towels to soften, but then the oil is finely brown off the balls, and food color, and at that point I move them to the light good pot of the bowl, so they're no longer into paper towls
20:43:08 <b_jonas> They're in the greased 13x9" (3-quart) baking sheet
20:43:25 <b_jonas> no wait, maybe they're out onto a bowl instead
20:43:40 <b_jonas> both the cooking sheet and the bowl
20:44:04 <b_jonas> \oren\: now it segfaults at startup?
20:44:10 <ybden> Hmm, is this an actual recipe, or an esolang?
20:44:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Circuitrite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46984 * Moon * (+239) if anyone wants to move data from the doc to here, please do so
20:44:13 <\oren\> is memmove even implemented properly???
20:44:26 <HackEgo> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
20:44:33 <tromp> afk for a walk myself
20:44:33 <b_jonas> \oren\: not on solaris, I hear
20:44:35 <ybden> b_jonas: Ah, thanks
20:45:13 <ybden> "CHINESE MEAT OF 2" <- this is somewhat worrisome
20:45:24 <b_jonas> ybden: it's not chef, in particular. chef does have object permanece, where ingredients are in bowls, you don't just put them into bowls or remove them from bowls, they're actually in the bowls and stay there until you do something to change that.
20:45:34 <int-e> it could be worse... chinese meat of four...
20:45:39 <b_jonas> ybden: recipe gives a random quote from it
20:45:52 <ybden> b_jonas: Ah, I see
20:46:12 <HackEgo> eel flour \ 1 tb Minced fresh green onion \ Sauce \ Salt & pepper \ \ Combine flour, cocoa and milk. \ Cook for 5 minutes, stirring often. Beat with all sides of the up and simmering well. Bake at 350\F8 \ depeed to directions, then immediately. \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: CATRICO'S & LEMON P
20:46:22 <HackEgo> d: 6 Servings \ \ 2 c Whole beans, chopped \ 2 tb Minced fresh celery \ -- drained \ 1 ts Vanilla extract \ 1 c Nonfat additional \ 2 c Peanut butter \ 4 Eggs \ 3/4 c Chopped celery \ 4 c Milk \ 1/3 c Unsweetened cocoa \ 2 lb Boneless chicken \ -pepper; seeded \ 2 tb Sour cream or flour \ 1/4 ts Dried parsley \ 1/2 ts Baking soda \
20:46:23 <\oren\> I type qwertyuiop, go to the u, and type backspace
20:46:36 <HackEgo> h \ baking sheet; add the beef plain,stock and a \ day little and pour off top. Spoon fat container. Place a little toasted \ of the mixture in the peanut butter until the flours is not be ablewhosed \ in the oil. Pour onto a bowl. Cut each piece into the oven. \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: GREEN B
20:47:02 <b_jonas> `learn RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater
20:47:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'roborosewater': RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater
20:47:56 <\oren\> which would imply it's copying it the other way
20:48:16 <b_jonas> hehe, http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/612057-generating-magic-cards-using-deep-recurrent-neural shows a card that has the chaos symbol used in a morph cost, as in Morph {B}{chaos}{G/W}
20:50:13 <b_jonas> that text says it's not a chaos symbol,
20:51:13 <\oren\> Ok, yeah, I called it the worng way around
20:51:46 <b_jonas> Hmm, could there be a card that cares specifically about spells or permanents with a hybrid mana symbol in their mana cost?
20:51:50 <b_jonas> Or would that be an un-card?
20:52:30 <zzo38> I think there could be such card, but no {B/B}
20:53:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: yeah, because there's no black-black guild
20:53:20 <int-e> "then put the *rest* of target creature card [...]"
20:53:57 <b_jonas> int-e: oh, that's like "then exile the pieces." on blacker lotus
20:54:16 <int-e> where did it learn that phrase? (also, "target creature card" should be rare...)
20:55:43 <b_jonas> int-e: it's not rare, lots of green or black card recyclers spells and black reanimators say "target creature card" in your graveyard
20:56:46 <b_jonas> `fetch http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2016-04-08.zip
20:56:51 <HackEgo> 2016-05-08 19:56:47 URL:http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2016-04-08.zip [708667/708667] -> "All Sets-2016-04-08.zip" [1]
20:57:04 <int-e> what about the last part... "Put a $n/$m $type token into play. Then put it into your graveyard."
20:57:07 <b_jonas> `mv -vi "All Sets-2016-04-08.zip" share/mtg/
20:57:08 <HackEgo> mv: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
20:57:26 <b_jonas> int-e: "last part" of what? I don't know the context
20:57:33 <Moon__> i made something diffrent: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Circuitrite
20:57:35 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi "All Sets-2016-04-08.zip" share/mtg/
20:57:37 <HackEgo> `All Sets-2016-04-08.zip' -> `share/mtg/All Sets-2016-04-08.zip'
20:57:45 <int-e> b_jonas: your link, I'm still looking at that "reminder text"
20:58:13 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && 7z x All\ Sets-2016-04-08.zip
20:58:14 <HackEgo> bash: 7z: command not found
20:58:21 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && unzip All\ Sets-2016-04-08.zip
20:58:22 <HackEgo> bash: unzip: command not found
20:58:47 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && gunzip All\ Sets-2016-04-08.zip
20:58:49 <HackEgo> gzip: All Sets-2016-04-08.zip: unknown suffix -- ignored
20:58:56 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && zcat All\ Sets-2016-04-08.zip
20:58:57 <HackEgo> "Ach! Hans, Run!" \ 2RRGG \ Enchantment \ At the beginning of your upkeep, you may say "Ach! Hans, run! It's the . . ." and name a creature card. If you do, search your library for the named card, put it into play, then shuffle your library. That creature has haste. Remove it from the game at end of turn. \ UNH-R \ \ A Display of My Dark Power
20:59:07 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && zcat All\ Sets-2016-04-08.zip > allsets.txt
20:59:18 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && zcat All\ Sets-2016-04-08.zip > allsets-2016-04-08.txt
20:59:36 <int-e> I mean, that could be fun in decks with lots of triggered abilities, but is there anything like it out of the box (without relying on state-based effects ("all elfs get -1/-1") or triggers that kill (Aether Flash)))
20:59:39 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && rm -v allsets.txt && ln -s allsets-2016-04-08.txt allsets.txt
21:00:51 <int-e> Hmm, perhaps something that puts a 0/0 token into play by default and needs to be boosted...
21:02:58 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't think so, except maybe in un. There are I think things that put a token into play then remove or destrpy it later.
21:07:39 <b_jonas> ``` perl -00ne '/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print' "Mighty Leap"
21:07:42 <HackEgo> Can't open Mighty Leap: No such file or directory.
21:07:48 <b_jonas> ``` perl -00ne '/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print' /hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt "Mighty Leap"
21:07:52 <HackEgo> Can't open Mighty Leap: No such file or directory at -e line 1, <> chunk 16212. \ Mighty Leap \ 1W \ Instant \ Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains flying until end of turn. \ M11-C, M12-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, OGW-C, DDF-C, DDG-C, DDO-C
21:08:01 <b_jonas> ``` perl -00 -ne '/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print' /hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt "Mighty Leap"
21:08:02 <HackEgo> Can't open Mighty Leap: No such file or directory at -e line 1, <> chunk 16212. \ Mighty Leap \ 1W \ Instant \ Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains flying until end of turn. \ M11-C, M12-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, OGW-C, DDF-C, DDG-C, DDO-C
21:08:13 <b_jonas> ``` perl -00 -ne '/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print' /hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt -- "Mighty Leap"
21:08:14 <HackEgo> Can't open --: No such file or directory at -e line 1, <> chunk 16212. \ Can't open Mighty Leap: No such file or directory at -e line 1, <> chunk 16212.
21:08:54 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'open$I,"<","/hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die;$/=""; while(<$I>){/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print}' "Mighty Leap"
21:08:56 <HackEgo> Mighty Leap \ 1W \ Instant \ Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains flying until end of turn. \ M11-C, M12-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, OGW-C, DDF-C, DDG-C, DDO-C
21:09:11 <int-e> "3: until end of turn, $THIS becomes a Plant Wall creature that's attacking you." ... having attacking creatures outside of the combat phase could be fun.
21:10:20 <b_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\n'exec perl -e '\''open$I,"<","/hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die;$/=""; while(<$I>){/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print}'\'' "$1"' > bin/card-by-name && chmod a+x bin/card-by-name
21:10:33 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/card-by-name: 2: /hackenv/bin/card-by-name: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
21:10:36 <\oren\> WHY IS -1 > 3!!!?!?@?@!
21:10:38 <int-e> "destroy target creature until end of turn"
21:11:05 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e \open$I,"<","/hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die;$/=""; while(<$I>){/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print}' "$1"
21:11:26 <b_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''exec perl -e '\''open$I,"<","/hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die;$/=""; while(<$I>){/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print}'\'' "$1"' > bin/card-by-name && chmod a+x bin/card-by-name
21:11:41 <HackEgo> Mighty Leap \ 1W \ Instant \ Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains flying until end of turn. \ M11-C, M12-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, OGW-C, DDF-C, DDG-C, DDO-C
21:11:53 <HackEgo> Gigantiform \ 3GG \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Kicker {4} \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature has base power and toughness 8/8 and has trample. \ When Gigantiform enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, you may search your library for a card named Gigantiform, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. \ ZEN-R
21:11:58 <HackEgo> Gigadrowse \ U \ Instant \ Replicate {U} (When you cast this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.) \ Tap target permanent. \ GPT-C
21:12:19 <HackEgo> Dizzy Spell \ U \ Instant \ Target creature gets -3/-0 until end of turn. \ Transmute {1}{U}{U} ({1}{U}{U}, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with the same converted mana cost as this card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. Transmute only as a sorcery.) \ RAV-C
21:12:26 <HackEgo> Trial \ WU \ Instant \ Return all creatures blocking or blocked by target creature to their owner's hand. \ [This is half of the split card Trial // Error.] \ DIS-U \ \ Trial // Error \ WU // UB \ Instant // Instant \ Return all creatures blocking or blocked by target creature to their owner's hand. // Counter target multicolored spell. \ DIS-U
21:13:49 <HackEgo> AEthersnipe \ 5U \ Creature -- Elemental \ 4/4 \ When AEthersnipe enters the battlefield, return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. \ Evoke {1}{U}{U} (You may cast this spell for its evoke cost. If you do, it's sacrificed when it enters the battlefield.) \ LRW-C, CMD-C, MMA-C, MM2-C, DD2-C
21:14:10 <b_jonas> we can add more complicated search stuff later
21:15:23 <int-e> and finally "tap target creature or player"
21:16:02 <int-e> (tapped players can't attack)
21:16:11 <int-e> b_jonas: the twitter account
21:16:28 <b_jonas> "Righthaste" -- is that a real word?
21:16:50 <int-e> https://twitter.com/RoboRosewater
21:16:50 <b_jonas> ``` egrep -i righthaste share/mtg/allcards.txt
21:16:52 <HackEgo> egrep: share/mtg/allcards.txt: No such file or directory
21:17:02 <b_jonas> ``` egrep -i righthaste share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:17:31 <b_jonas> it has "Until end of turn." which reminds me to that triggered abilty zzo38 wrote
21:18:21 <b_jonas> "At the beginning of the first cleanup step each turn, if ~ is untapped."
21:18:55 <b_jonas> "Tromple,Mointainspalk" what
21:20:19 <b_jonas> int-e: yeah, "becomes a Plant Wall creature that's attacking you." is triply funny
21:20:55 <b_jonas> because it becomes a creature that's attacking, because it's attacking until end of turn, and because it's a wall that's attacking
21:20:57 <tswett> `run egrep -i "that's attacking you" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:20:58 <HackEgo> Domain -- Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays {X} for each creature he or she controls that's attacking you, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. \ Nonblack creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays {2} for each creature he or she controls that's attacking you. \ Creatures can't attack
21:23:08 <b_jonas> ``` egrep -i "right[a-z]" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:23:11 <HackEgo> Brightflame \ Radiance -- Brightflame deals X damage to target creature and each other creature that shares a color with it. You gain life equal to the damage dealt this way. \ Brighthearth Banneret \ Brightstone Ritual \ Frightcrawler \ Threshold -- As long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard, Frightcrawler gets +2/+2 and can't block. \ F
21:23:20 <b_jonas> ``` egrep -i "\<right[a-z]" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:23:21 <HackEgo> Rally the Righteous \ Righteous Aura \ Righteous Authority \ Righteous Avengers \ Righteous Blow \ Righteous Blow deals 2 damage to target attacking or blocking creature. \ Righteous Cause \ Righteous Charge \ Righteous Confluence \ Righteous Fury \ Righteous Indignation \ Righteous War \ Righteousness \ Shield of the Righteous \ Surge of Righteous
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21:23:37 <b_jonas> ``` pgrep -i "\bright(?!ous)[a-z]" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:23:37 <HackEgo> pgrep: invalid option -- 'i' \ \ Usage: \ pgrep [options] <pattern> \ \ Options: \ -c, --count count of matching processes \ -d, --delimeter <string> specify output delimeter \ -l, --list-name list PID and process name \ -v, --inverse negates the matching \ -f, --full use full process name
21:23:45 <b_jonas> ``` grep -Pi "\bright(?!ous)[a-z]" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:23:48 <HackEgo> Rally the Righteous \ Righteous Aura \ Righteous Authority \ Righteous Avengers \ Righteous Blow \ Righteous Blow deals 2 damage to target attacking or blocking creature. \ Righteous Cause \ Righteous Charge \ Righteous Confluence \ Righteous Fury \ Righteous Indignation \ Righteous War \ Righteousness \ Shield of the Righteous \ Surge of Righteous
21:23:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Circuitrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46985&oldid=46984 * Moon * (-11)
21:24:05 <b_jonas> ``` grep -Pi "\bright(?!eous)[a-z]" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:24:14 <b_jonas> where did it get "righthaste"?
21:24:31 <tswett> `run egrep -i righth share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:24:33 <HackEgo> Brighthearth Banneret \ Rings of Brighthearth
21:24:56 <tswett> Maybe the same place it got "Bdast Hand".
21:25:08 <b_jonas> tswett: isn't that at least a card name?
21:25:25 <b_jonas> as opposed to what looks like an ability word
21:26:00 <tswett> Pretty sure that's in an ability.
21:26:14 <b_jonas> from the twitter, there's a card named Omberceptic Thrull. you'd think a card with that name would have the subtype Thrull. you'd be wrong.
21:26:50 <tswett> And don't forget All Werewolf.
21:27:17 <b_jonas> tswett: what's All Werewolf?
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21:27:42 <int-e> `run egrep -i thast share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:28:03 <int-e> maybe it knows that it can combine two proper words into one
21:28:45 <b_jonas> int-e: there's... I think three words ending in haste: haste, turbo-haste from un, and some kind of haste in FUT
21:29:01 <tswett> That the end of a word can be followed immediately by the beginning of another word, instead of a space.
21:29:13 <b_jonas> turbohast is actually "Super haste"
21:29:34 <b_jonas> ``` grep -Pi "[a-z]haste" share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:29:47 <tswett> `run grep 'Super haste' share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:29:48 <HackEgo> Super haste (This may attack the turn before you play it. (You may put this card into play from your hand, tapped and attacking, during your declare attackers step. If you do, you lose the game at the end of your next turn unless you pay this card's mana cost during that turn.))
21:29:48 <b_jonas> what's that one in FUT called then?
21:29:59 <b_jonas> tswett: Super Haste is on Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug
21:30:06 <tswett> Reminder text with reminder text. I like it.
21:30:24 <b_jonas> tswett: you do? there's another instance on the nameless card
21:30:40 <tswett> `run grep '))' share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:30:41 <HackEgo> Super haste (This may attack the turn before you play it. (You may put this card into play from your hand, tapped and attacking, during your declare attackers step. If you do, you lose the game at the end of your next turn unless you pay this card's mana cost during that turn.))
21:31:04 <tswett> `run grep ').)' share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:31:14 <tswett> ).) looks kind of like a weird emoticon.
21:31:35 <b_jonas> right, I know why it's not in the allsets.txt
21:31:44 <b_jonas> see http://magiccards.info/uh/en/23.html for a solution
21:32:12 <int-e> Moon__: some sort of barrel?
21:32:30 <int-e> Moon__: your ascii-art
21:32:54 <b_jonas> ah no, the FUT one doesn't have abilityhaste
21:32:55 <Moon__> <tswett> ).) looks kind of like a weird emoticon.
21:33:07 <HackEgo> Bonded Fetch \ 2U \ Creature -- Homunculus \ 0/2 \ Defender, haste \ {T}: Draw a card, then discard a card. \ FUT-U
21:33:26 <boily> `card-by-name Cloudw
21:33:47 <boily> `card-by-name Cloud of
21:33:48 <HackEgo> Cloud of Faeries \ 1U \ Creature -- Faerie \ 1/1 \ Flying \ When Cloud of Faeries enters the battlefield, untap up to two lands. \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ UL-C, VMA-U
21:34:04 <b_jonas> “Counter target spell with five toughness 2 or greater.” in http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/612057-generating-magic-cards-using-deep-recurrent-neural
21:34:38 <boily> Gardenpath Counterspell.
21:35:15 <b_jonas> note that these are early cards, before the network was trained enough
21:35:27 <HackEgo> Horror of Horrors \ 3BB \ Enchantment \ Sacrifice a Swamp: Regenerate target black creature. (The next time that creature would be destroyed this turn, it isn't. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat.) \ LE-U, 9ED-U \ \ Horror of the Dim \ 4B \ Creature -- Horror \ 3/4 \ {U}: Horror of the Dim gains hexproof until en
21:36:36 <b_jonas> the twitter has a card named "Wall a"
21:36:41 <b_jonas> that's like that animated film
21:37:50 <b_jonas> twitter: “Whenever an opponent loses 1 life, target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.” that one is an interesting restriction
21:40:06 <fizzie> fungot: Go and learn a style for a MtG card, will you?
21:41:06 <fungot> boily: maybe it is to generate the list structure itself ( not the java, that is
21:41:16 <b_jonas> “Ovyread Legation / 2G / Instant / Players can't exile its controller's control. If you do, shuffle your library.”
21:41:27 <boily> fungot: do not generate java hth
21:41:27 <fungot> boily: er this is openbsd, you know
21:41:43 <boily> fungot: you run on a bsd?
21:41:43 <fungot> boily: you're essentially breaking hygiene by comparing literally. inside of " ", at fnord
21:42:11 <boily> b_jonas: my mind, it hurts.
21:42:13 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
21:42:31 <fizzie> The freenode/#scheme part has made big contributions.
21:42:41 * Moon__ pokes boily for aliveness
21:43:05 <fizzie> I'm not sure how things orient chronologically, I may have run fungot on an OpenBSD.
21:43:05 <fungot> fizzie: you mean like the 0. is exact, z seems to be in
21:43:15 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:43:23 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
21:43:45 <b_jonas> "Glast Vonger / UU / 2/2 Creature - Shapeshifter / {T}: Destroy target creature with lifelink until end of turn.” -- I think that ability actually makes sense by the current rules
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21:43:49 <fizzie> The nethack style isn't a terribly good one. fungot, say something clever.
21:43:49 <fungot> fizzie: twoflower, guide: " now it is as white as a benign deity. he is endowed with not-inconsiderable sexual prowess which he bore, he readies his weapon could provide? i will set my face, so perfectly constructed that no one is quite unequivocal: _vampire_ " a wizard!"
21:44:12 <fungot> Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
21:44:16 <b_jonas> seriously, that's a quite nice card
21:44:25 <Moon__> fungot, say something clever.
21:44:25 <b_jonas> among the best generated ones
21:44:25 <fungot> Moon__: pointer to the outside world. they are organized into 4 registers: none note: ror instruction is available for programming commodore computers is to take advantage of the commodore 64. although there is no statement in basic creates a random number generator for games, programming tips, " if it had been transmitted or printed out) no interrupts can be restarted by using a fn call, or voices, a
21:44:46 <b_jonas> does zzo's file have any effect that destroys a permanent until end of turn?
21:44:50 <fizzie> That one tends to stop very suddenly, thanks to inadequate preprocessing.
21:45:12 <b_jonas> fizzie: doesn't it just run out of irc line space?
21:45:31 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
21:45:42 <b_jonas> Tardas Mersioner has some funny reminder text
21:45:42 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
21:45:49 <Moon__> fungot, say something clever.
21:45:49 <fungot> Moon__: but seriously, coke has quite little coffein if compared with coffee...
21:45:55 <Moon__> fungot, say something clever.
21:46:00 <Moon__> fungot, say something clever.
21:46:00 <fungot> Moon__: you're sitting on a wooden chair in a cafe of a library, there's little point, unless you already know where to put
21:46:05 <b_jonas> and it says “Bestroy target creature.”
21:46:05 <Moon__> fungot, say something clever.
21:46:09 <int-e> hmm continuous destruction. "I'll kill you, and this time you'll stay dead, is that understood?"
21:46:16 <Moon__> fungot, say something clever.
21:46:38 <int-e> "there's little point"
21:47:01 <fizzie> b_jonas: It might have done that right now, but (IIRC) it *also* does it randomly with that style, because I didn't unbreak lines to form paragraphs.
21:47:09 <HackEgo> It little profits that an idle king, / By this still hearth, among these barren crags, / Match'd with an aged wife, I mete and dole / Unequal laws unto a savage race, / That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me. / I cannot rest from travel: I will drink / Life to the lees; all times I have enjoy'd / Greatly, have suffer'd greatly, both with
21:47:32 <b_jonas> there's little point in an idle king
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21:48:04 <zzo38> There is the card +2/+2 and flying until end of turn, but I made up the card that damages a creature and then that creature is flying until end of turn.
21:48:47 <int-e> does it also get some more damage when it crashes to the ground?
21:48:47 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, is that some sort of goblin grenade, or a giant that likes to play football with smaller creatures?
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21:49:16 <zzo38> No it is a instant and it does not cause more damage once it stopped flying
21:49:36 <int-e> `run egrep -i plummet share/mtg/allsets.txt
21:49:41 <boily> Moon__: Mhelloon__. fungot.
21:49:41 <fungot> boily: aha. is there anyway that could be called fnord, which guarantees practically infinite energy for free
21:49:50 * boily calls Moon__ "fnord"
21:50:15 <int-e> hmm, destroy... a bit more than I was looking for, but fair enough
21:50:22 <zzo38> The card I made is: Ground Shock {R} Instant ;; ~ deals 3 damage to target creature without flying. That creature gets +1/+1 and gains flying until end of turn.
21:50:49 <hppavilion[1]> Most neural networks use numbers to pass around data...
21:50:55 <hppavilion[1]> But could someone do something similar with strings?
21:51:49 <int-e> damn. I guess a 0/3 creature (no bonuses, no previous damage) will survive...
21:52:09 <int-e> ...but I'm not sure!
21:52:28 <zzo38> It will survive, but will be dead with one more point of damage
21:54:02 <int-e> But I would have had to read rules to figure out whether that all happens at once or whether a state check could see the 3 damage without seeing the +1/+1.
21:55:17 <zzo38> It can't; state based actions only occur when a player is about to receive priority.
21:57:26 <HackEgo> 🐐//🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.)
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22:00:05 <zzo38> What is the limit for the directory stack in bash?
22:00:47 <zzo38> The "shegoc" gopher client that I wrote uses four entries in the directory stack for each entry of the history to be able to go back.
22:01:29 <HackEgo> U+1F5FF MOYAI \ UTF-8: f0 9f 97 bf UTF-16BE: d83dddff Decimal: 🗿 \ 🗿 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2668 HOT SPRINGS \ UTF-8: e2 99 a8 UTF-16BE: 2668 Decimal: ♨ \ ♨ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F4AE WHITE FLOWER \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 ae UTF-16BE: d83ddcae
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22:07:26 <zzo38> The program called "shegoc" is a gopher client that I wrote in shell scripts, so you can write about that if you want to.
22:07:54 <boily> SHEll GOpher Chicken.
22:08:27 <Moon__> boily, what is with you and Chicken (esolang)
22:08:41 <zzo38> It stands for "Client" not "Chicken" but otherwise it is OK
22:14:10 <boily> Moon__: nothing about the chicken esolang. all about chicken.
22:14:17 <boily> `? things boily like
22:14:18 <HackEgo> things boily like? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:14:28 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/thing*: No such file or directory
22:14:49 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/stuff*: No such file or directory
22:14:59 <boily> `` ls wisdom/{thing,stuff}*
22:15:00 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/stuff*: No such file or directory \ wisdom/things boily likes
22:15:08 <boily> `? things boily like
22:15:09 <HackEgo> things boily like? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:15:12 <boily> `? things boily likes
22:15:14 <HackEgo> Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. Moreover, cubes.
22:16:03 <zzo38> I should add support for other item types too, such as downloading, and configure what program to use for pictures and telnet and so on.
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23:59:39 <Moon__> and potential new person
23:59:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hfs: not found