< 1462839036 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haz found garbage http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%99%A6 < 1462839112 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the history < 1462839147 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant understand t < 1462839334 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight substitution seems too obvious but it's worth trying frequency analysis < 1462839673 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :define '<': increment ptrp; define '+': increment dup; define '-': decrement dup; < 1462839692 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A esolang im working on has a sample bf intepreter (= < 1462839806 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1462839874 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` quote oerjan | shuf < 1462839881 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :615) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness \ 614) but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...] i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot. \ 366) Will anyone be < 1462839895 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462839912 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1462839913 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1462839915 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1462839915 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1462839916 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1462839934 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf. turns out reading about a new mathematical concept a few hours before going to bed is not conducive to good sleeping hth < 1462839942 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :960) o.O OS/2 is what became NT? I didn't really know what OS/2 was < 1462839942 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :434) fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. < 1462839946 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :879) GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles oh, that's why somebody was conflating category theory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D < 1462839946 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :117) GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! < 1462839947 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1255) What is an esolang? shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang < 1462839950 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which new mathematical concept did you read about this time < 1462839968 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side, i now understand why laver tables must have 2^n sizes if they exist. although not yet why they are shelves. < 1462839974 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that < 1462839997 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? laver tables < 1462839999 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :laver tables? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462840002 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :shelves are p. bizarre < 1462840021 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you use le/rn/ again? < 1462840112 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn laver table/A laver table is a type of Welsh furniture primarily used for eating seaweed. < 1462840118 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «laver table» < 1462840125 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please improve twh < 1462840147 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hth < 1462840156 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462840175 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking to coppro hth < 1462840184 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i wouldn't ask the retiree < 1462840195 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1462840197 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your retired mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. < 1462840224 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1462840252 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/re//' wisdom/oerjan < 1462840272 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me swats shachaf -----### < 1462840302 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you been saving that one up < 1462840310 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1462840322 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was just going to quote wikipedia < 1462840338 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :laver tables are tables of numbers that have certain properties < 1462840357 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1462840374 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/too+simple+to+be+simple < 1462840675 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a thing: http://pastebin.com/680vBM4U < 1462840684 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the demo idea for a esolang im making < 1462840689 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a brainfuck intepreter < 1462840745 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just looks like a lang < 1462840765 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh maybe. < 1462840777 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its unique in its own ways < 1462840779 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :applescript is more esoteric than this < 1462840784 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.-. < 1462840799 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be useful still < 1462840808 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it for a second < 1462840841 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could intepret a lot of languages in the finished product < 1462840866 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the wikipedia article on Laver tables confuses racks with shelves. unfortunately there seems to be no article on the latter. < 1462840887 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(racks have an extra requirement.) < 1462840978 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, at least lex is turing complete < 1462840999 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but what quandles twh < 1462841037 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a real quandary < 1462841157 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also does the shelf operation have anything to do with S twah < 1462841279 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do you think of this? http://pastebin.com/680vBM4U < 1462841288 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the S combinator? looks awkward. < 1462841291 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you asking me? < 1462841302 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i want your opinion < 1462841323 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've hardly talked to you. < 1462841461 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shelf" is not an easily googleable term tdnh < 1462841465 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462841466 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION leaves a red link
< 1462841571 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tromp_; what do you think of this? http://pastebin.com/680vBM4U < 1462841610 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1462841683 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: It's kind of rude to just ask your question of whoever is talking in the channel or just joined the channel. < 1462841701 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not too useful, because those are exactly the people who see what's going on in the channel anyway. < 1462841733 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srry < 1462841757 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__ i think's it's rather verbose:( < 1462841767 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it refused to load until the very moment i pressed close, which i take as a sign not to look at it hth < 1462841802 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka ^w) < 1462841819 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why people ought to post raw links when they use pastebin.com < 1462841841 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now xkcd. < 1462841850 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im writing it so i can have aliases for things < 1462841867 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say its good for defineing intepreters :P < 1462841924 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the raw link oerjan: http://pastebin.com/raw/680vBM4U < 1462841939 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO LATE < 1462841968 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but thats a bf interpreter and proof of turing completeness for something im makeing ;-; < 1462841979 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462841985 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hia hppavilion[1] < 1462841994 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellmooon < 1462841998 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ooo/oo/ < 1462842008 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be formulating a collection of mathematical chess variants < 1462842013 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recommend not naming your languages after common unix utilities hth < 1462842017 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are chess variants like the BF derivative of board games? < 1462842031 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, is somebody making a mistake? < 1462842035 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, i didnt know that lex was a unix util name < 1462842041 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1462842045 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: What's lex? < 1462842047 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no because chess is kind of its own field in boardgames < 1462842053 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your lex, not our lex) < 1462842064 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language im working on < 1462842071 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a one char command < 1462842072 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: What's the concept? < 1462842080 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the ones I thought of that I particularly like is Gaussian Chess < 1462842084 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like chess < 1462842089 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda like a data processer < 1462842102 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes in data, does something to it, spits it out < 1462842109 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: So a batch processor? < 1462842110 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8ball Are chess variants like the BF derivative of board games? < 1462842113 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sources say no. < 1462842116 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1462842117 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1462842118 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew it < 1462842120 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a brainfuck intepreter in it for proof of concept: http://pastebin.com/raw/680vBM4U < 1462842131 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And turing completeness < 1462842147 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically you aren't actually parsing the brainfuck input like you should < 1462842152 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1462842165 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did i do wrong? < 1462842172 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes throught the code one char at a time < 1462842191 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you implement [] as independent jump instructions < 1462842202 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which admittedly is how the original spec did it < 1462842204 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1462842223 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next means just ignore it < 1462842231 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go to the next char < 1462842263 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with the additional allowance that, instead of moving a piece, you may take the abs() of a piece or the sum or product of two pieces, where such an operation produces a piece with the position of the abs/sum/product of its inputs when they are treated as rank+file*i < 1462842273 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas i would argue that [] loops are a syntactic construct and should be treated as such < 1462842283 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Either solution is valid ATM < 1462842307 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my language is turing complete at least < 1462842311 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I actually made a quite nice extension using the stack model (didn't publish it because it was a BF derivative) < 1462842329 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the implementation should scan through the program and construct an AST of normal instructions and loops containing blocks of normal instructions < 1462842333 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: [] behaves as normal, and {} are like [] except they do nothing but serve as labels < 1462842339 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :('normal' meaning '+-<>.,') < 1462842361 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is while, {] is do-while, [} is if-then, {} is... well, that's just do < 1462842372 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the "Use defines" command is sort of esoteric, i think. < 1462842373 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__, at the very least an implementation like that would demonstrate interesting data manipulation, rather than just iteration on an array < 1462842380 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *use < 1462842392 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically scope, but BF doesn't exactly do scope, so it's useless < 1462842411 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, the brackets match each other and should be parsed < 1462842438 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i beleive they wrk, only a function interpreter could prove me wrong < 1462842439 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: Does it crash if the brackets don't match? As in, a surplus of leading brackets? < 1462842462 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lex implentation should prevent running off the file < 1462842503 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats up to the person who implents it, really < 1462842510 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: But does it crash if there are extra [s that DON'T try to look for their partner (e.g. if they're always prefixed with [-])? < 1462842513 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about how well the interpreter actually runs < 1462842548 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will stop, yes, but the intepreter wont full crash < 1462842557 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about properly acknowledging the structure of the interpreted program, and making your interpreter implement something more interesting than the bog standard interpreter that everyone's written in C < 1462842567 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I'm a fan of BF's stack strategy- they're a syntactic construct to a naive onlooker, yes, but if you can get away without parsing, goodonya < 1462842618 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone wanted ,they could use 'on error ' constructs to handle errors like that < 1462842622 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't parse you're doomed to get quadratic overhead on looping < 1462842642 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um maybe quadratic is the wrong word < 1462842650 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah, yes, that too < 1462842653 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it's worse than a constant overhead < 1462842655 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Exponential? Polynomial? < 1462842655 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, can all y'all guys access a webpage at this URL? http://nlp.stanford.edu:8080/parser/ < 1462842659 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a really dumb constant overhead < 1462842668 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, no < 1462842671 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Nope < 1462842686 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1462842689 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it's not constant if a large loop is frequently skipped < 1462842689 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So isup.me is lying. < 1462842719 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, or we live in an oppressive regime and didn't notice the transition < 1462842721 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone could write the parsar too, easy < 1462842728 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462842729 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: If it's easy, make one < 1462842735 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: Demonstrate the ease of your language < 1462842740 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not done with the specs < 1462842759 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they could use loops and 'replace with ' for that < 1462842803 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i wrote was a proof of turing completeness, really < 1462842838 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: Yes, but it's not an elegant proof < 1462842850 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesnt need to be < 1462842851 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: If you can make a parser in it, the language will be provably interesting < 1462842873 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, ill make something < 1462842966 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/Mexico/all Mexico/' wisdom/hackego < 1462842971 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get it quite right < 1462842973 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462842979 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? HackEgo < 1462842981 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! < 1462843053 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only problem with writing a parsar is im lazy :P < 1462843080 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a unix utility that can help with that hth < 1462843089 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1462843104 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: tdnh < 1462843124 0 :^^v!~^v@172.56.11.178 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1462843126 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "tdnh" is not in my lexicon hth < 1462843134 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lex < 1462843155 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lex cannot parse brackets, can it? < 1462843164 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462843170 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's regexp-based, you need yacc/bison. < 1462843190 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which lex < 1462843192 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/lex < 1462843209 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'run external command @echo off < 1462843229 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a theoretical lex command :P < 1462843253 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god < 1462843259 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1462843259 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: sounds unlikely, since @echo off is the kind of thing you _don't_ implement externally. < 1462843263 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i said it can help, not that it'll do the whole job for you < 1462843269 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i didn't name a utility < 1462843279 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaur Comics: "THIS COMIC WILL NOT BE DISPLAYED TWICE" < 1462843280 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 1sed < 1462843281 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although someone here manage to make an external cd, so... < 1462843287 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*managed < 1462843289 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION refreshes the page
< 1462843292 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different comic < 1462843306 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's the same with a different ending < 1462843327 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: "with a different text" hth < 1462843327 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you all try writing in lex? < 1462843331 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> <_< < 1462843339 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yesh, there we go < 1462843341 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: No < 1462843343 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah < 1462843365 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__: Make the language interesting and we will gravitate towards it < 1462843375 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :K < 1462843389 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon__ is going through the try-to-make-others-use-his-language phase. soon, the despair. < 1462843429 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the vodka. < 1462843511 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is a electric badmitten racket maniac* < 1462843527 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*trying to electricute flys* < 1462843537 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mad he forgets /me again < 1462843895 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462843935 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi tromp < 1462843946 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1462844151 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls atmospheres < 1462844156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atmospheres < 1462844161 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits atmospheres < 1462844176 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1462844181 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1462844185 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm atmospheres < 1462844190 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462844315 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you deal with spam on the eso wiki? < 1462844334 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a captcha and a spam filter < 1462844341 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1462844354 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some blocked ips < 1462844390 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spam filter is rules handcrafted by ais523 < 1462844420 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like matching viagra? < 1462844440 0 :Moon__!~jircii@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: jIRCii - http://www.oldschoolirc.com < 1462844456 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. because bots don't understand proper wiki formatting, nearly all have strange but obvious things like
instead of newlines < 1462844490 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spambots < 1462844503 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1462844583 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462844589 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1462844638 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so afaik there are no filters based on what the spammers try to advertise. < 1462844673 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just recaptcha? < 1462844707 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462844748 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462844760 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: well those spammers that bother to hire out to a human captcha solver get through anyway. < 1462844819 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :last autumn or so some of them did that. but after ais523 updated the filters again, those held. < 1462844858 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: we were sort of running an experiment where we were using just _one_ captcha. and until last autumn that was pretty good. < 1462844870 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :one? < 1462844874 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, never changing? < 1462844876 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it just occasionally had to be changed, but just one.) < 1462844889 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not automatically, no. < 1462844939 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably doesn't scale too well < 1462844959 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. it was entirely based on the principle that we're too small to target specifically. < 1462844989 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if not, the filters probably would have been got around too) < 1462845187 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have decided to write a chatbot in C++ < 1462845418 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1462845485 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz < 1462845626 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reinventing the wheel, ill start from a skeleton, add the meat < 1462845680 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462846250 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a skeleton generally classifies as reinventing the wheel :) < 1462846288 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well, if you know enough C++11 and have boost at hands, not *that* hard I guess < 1462846345 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :import cleverbot < 1462846348 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :#done < 1462846386 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a irc bot >_> < 1462846393 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is cleverbot < 1462846400 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1462846402 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that wrong < 1462846967 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone feel like (code)golfing? < 1462847126 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the golfers are currently busy doing laver tables in binary lambda calculus. < 1462847227 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking about challanging you all to write a brainfuck intepreter in the esolang of your choise < 1462847228 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like golfing < 1462847239 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindun < 1462847258 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a programming language that is basically identical to brainfuck except that the empty program is a self-interpreter. < 1462847259 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as small as possible < 1462847272 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :id call that cheating :P < 1462847308 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dont use cheaty ones and im ok with it < 1462847329 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is a rule-bending. after all golfing across different languages is... uh... not really worth arguing. < 1462847339 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule-bending one* < 1462847348 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a golpher? < 1462847351 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the animal. < 1462847359 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: gollang. < 1462847362 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-.- < 1462847370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Game of life language? < 1462847379 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sounds great < 1462847385 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never thought in that way < 1462847395 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon_: you think to compare cross-lang to get shortest interp? < 1462847404 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea < 1462847456 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think what would be the best lang for that purpose < 1462847469 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how long a jelly interp would be < 1462847536 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462847555 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/27364/esoteric-programming-languages < 1462847557 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found home < 1462847562 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight < 1462847581 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SE had a chat? I didn't know < 1462847630 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 103 byte simplex solution is the shortest one i can find < 1462847647 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462847653 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon_: that chat has very sporadic activity < 1462847752 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brian Raiter had 166-byte-long ELF binary (!) for BF interp http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt < 1462847778 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :activity spores < 1462847854 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet i could do it in under 100 < 1462847854 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1462847861 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a binary) < 1462847862 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon_: 103 bytes barely beats my Binary Lambda Calculus one < 1462847894 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 5 bits longer < 1462847906 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1462847916 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're not tuomas laakkonen < 1462847925 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you < 1462847928 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we just declare BLC to be cheating and get it over with >:) < 1462847939 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheating how:-? < 1462847941 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1462847948 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: it's TOO GOOD hth < 1462847954 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1462847974 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make BLC plus adaptive compression < 1462847993 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to < 1462847994 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do better < 1462847998 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:41:09 tromp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus says that Haskell-style I/O requires a type system, but that isn't true. < 1462848001 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:41:59 Not that BLC would benefit from Haskell-style I/O, for the things it's typically used for. < 1462848032 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do Haskell style IO shachaf? < 1462848066 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend the lambda calculus with readbit and writebit primitives? < 1462848090 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example with an a sum type like data IO = ReadBit (Bool -> IO) | WriteBit Bool IO | Done < 1462848101 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can make it a monad if you want to. < 1462848111 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not untyped then?! < 1462848116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you'd have to encode it in lambdas. < 1462848140 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use original haskell 1.0 hth < 1462848153 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the type system isn't really what prevents Haskell programs from mixing up "IO a" and "a", which is what that entry looked like it suggested. < 1462848167 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haskell 1.0 doesn't exist hth < 1462848177 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type sysmtem is needed to serialize io primitives < 1462848192 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1462848196 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can encode a list, you can encode this type. < 1462848232 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to prevent things like writebit applied to writebit < 1462848238 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm? < 1462848300 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you dont want order of io operations to depend on order of evaluation < 1462848304 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1462848306 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1462848363 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote about this a bit in http://stackoverflow.com/a/13538351 < 1462848415 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you encode a list in lambda calculus, do you need to prevent things like cons applied to a non-list? < 1462848416 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj4zdWEsc7MAhUK2SwKHWtSA0YQFggbMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haskell.org%2Fdefinition%2Fhaskell-report-1.0.ps.gz&usg=AFQjCNERSb6UmbpF5lvDfv5V3HZsJsVKlg&bvm=bv.121099550,bs.1,d.bGg < 1462848423 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good url < 1462848432 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid google doesn't let me link directly without opening it < 1462848442 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was meant to be a joke about old things not existing < 1462848448 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i didn't really think it through < 1462848463 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE YOUR THOUGHT DIDN'T EXIST, HUH? < 1462848469 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1462848490 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it existed so much that it wrapped around to not existing < 1462848508 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than you'll ever exist < 1462848510 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ørjan < 1462848513 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. < 1462848599 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( a solipsistic AI simulation ) < 1462848605 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462848628 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are ørjan and oerjan påls < 1462848683 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to drag pål-ørjan into this, i had almost forgot the guy < 1462848791 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like he has a twitter https://twitter.com/po_johansen < 1462848869 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems to like LSD < 1462848992 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and a norwegian wikipedia page. < 1462849061 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx for the link shachaf, will slowly digest that < 1462849076 0 :acertain!~acertain@unaffiliated/fread2281 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1462849155 0 :notfowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 LSD < 1462849214 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, even i don't have a norwegian wikipedia page < 1462849235 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/2ywf4a < 1462849238 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1462849274 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please note, Pål and Teri do not have PhDs." < 1462849306 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: AAAAAAAAAAA < 1462849316 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462849361 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe you can publish a joint paper about lsd homology < 1462849377 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess a joint paper would be about a different drug < 1462849552 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how come harald didn't name his son pål < 1462849575 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: nice write-up, but i don't see how to implement any of your approaches without types < 1462849579 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think pål is a traditional royal name < 1462849598 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1462849623 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this one would be principål < 1462849646 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :content delivery networks are the webs of the spiderdemon < 1462849653 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I don't see what types have to do with it. < 1462849698 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ContIO = Exit | PutStrLn String ContIO | GetLine (String -> ContIO) | ... is a type < 1462849710 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a) is a type. < 1462849719 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can implement lists even in untyped lambda calculus. < 1462849759 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you cannot constrain lists in untyped lc < 1462849788 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PutStrLn needs to constrain its argument to be a string < 1462849805 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Cons needs to constrain its second argument to be a list. < 1462849807 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two doors between me and my wireless router. my internet is fastest when both are closed. < 1462849818 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE < 1462849930 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me an alternative definition of BLC with IO primitives < 1462850027 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we can discuss its semantics < 1462850096 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's some weird geometry in my house that causes the signal to cancel itself out??? < 1462850250 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of possible encodings in lambda calculus. < 1462850297 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick the simplest < 1462850326 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encode Exit as (\e w r -> e); WriteBit b k as (\e w r -> w b more); ReadBit k as (\e w r -> r k) < 1462850327 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need readbit and writebit < 1462850375 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the Scott encoding. < 1462850434 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lost me alrd:( < 1462850485 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462850492 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: feng shui poltergeist hth < 1462850497 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how would you encode a program that generates a list of bits as output? < 1462850501 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No input necessary. < 1462850578 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my model, any closed lambda term is a program that does binary IO < 1462850611 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input bit stream is represented as a list of booleans to which the term is applied < 1462850630 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you represent a list? < 1462850666 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons = \M\N. \z. z M N < 1462850683 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = \t\f. t < 1462850687 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = \t\f. f < 1462850712 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you terminate a list? < 1462850723 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nil = 1 < 1462850786 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Would you believe the encoding "cons = \M\N. \c\n. c M N"; "nil = \c\n. n"? < 1462850807 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e., to consume a list cell, you pass it what to do in the nil case and in the cons case. < 1462850903 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too < 1462850912 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so I'm doing the same thing. < 1462850927 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit = \e\w\r. e < 1462850936 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just dont call that monadic IO < 1462850984 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was monadic, though you can make it a monad easily enough if you want to. < 1462851032 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i claimed that having readbit as a *primitive* of the lambda calculus language requires a type system < 1462851087 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462851123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we're just talking about different things. < 1462851153 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought we're talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus#Binary_I.2FO < 1462851198 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i contrast my approach to IO with that of Chaitin < 1462851207 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unless one distinguishes between an I/O action and its result, as Haskell does with its monadic I/O" < 1462851218 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462851222 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that the type system isn't what distinguishes between an I/O action and its result. < 1462851232 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just completely different things. < 1462851252 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type system distinguishes between strings and integers, sure, but even without the type system they'd be different things. < 1462851259 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt say that < 1462851299 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that a readbit *primitive* with monadic semantics requires a type system < 1462851325 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Perhaps I just misunderstood. < 1462851332 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think "monadic" is a red herring anyway. < 1462851363 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can omit the word monadic there < 1462851404 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1462851443 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be good for more languages to make a distinction between IO action values and their results, even in the absence of type systems, and even in the absence of being able to abstract over the choice of a monad. < 1462851926 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use the word monadic to emphasize that distinction, but the "requires type system" refers to readbit being a language primitive < 1462852006 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree with Cale < 1462852126 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462852155 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: why IO specifically and not other side effects? < 1462852168 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since side effects could indirectly have IO effects < 1462852223 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, IO is the stuff that you want some sort of support in the language implementation to interpret. < 1462852259 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly possible to carve out a subclass of pure lambda terms which encode IO actions < 1462852284 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without some sort of interpreter underneath which is going to carry out the effects, it doesn't really do much for you. < 1462852336 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1462852396 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: hmm... I'm not sure I agree < 1462852418 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need language implementation (or library implementation) support < 1462852432 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure that that's a reason to make a distinction < 1462852446 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer addition requires implementation support as well < 1462852453 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean, "why is it a good idea to distinguish IO actions like we do in Haskell"? < 1462852473 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh, I misread what you said < 1462852517 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'd still ask why not do that for any function with side effects < 1462852541 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously we'd rather not have arbitrary side effects at the same time < 1462852557 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1462852561 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is just to encode effects as values of a particular type < 1462852562 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give an example, perhaps? < 1462852684 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know how things work in Haskell, right? We have this separate parametric data type, IO t, representing actions which can be carried out and which may have arbitrary effects, before resulting in a value of type t if they succeed. < 1462852731 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1462852776 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can think of such a value as consisting of some sort of encoding of what to do in what order in terms of various primitive I/O actions. It's possible to represent that entirely with a pure lambda term, taking the I/O primitives and bind, and return as arguments, and sticking them together somehow. < 1462852792 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1462852835 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that you'd *need* to do this in an arbitrary other language -- just to say that as soon as your language is expressive enough to have lambda terms, it's expressive enough to represent IO actions purely. < 1462852847 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1462852902 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't really see the benefit in a language not built around purity < 1462852916 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having such a concept is nice because it lets you not worry about effects during evaluation -- you have this separate notion of the execution of one of these IO actions, where the thing is taken apart and the steps described are carried out < 1462852953 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1462852957 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it gives you a really nice formulaic way to pull a bunch of messy stuff out of the description of evaluation. < 1462852970 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1462852972 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in some sense, it's all about making the language more pure < 1462852984 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my point is that it really doesn't *require* a type system < 1462852984 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I was just thinking of trying to staple that onto, say, an OO language < 1462853009 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably requires lambdas to not pull your hair out in anguish < 1462853014 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1462853020 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: You're making a similar point to the one I was making a few pages up, I think. < 1462853023 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a neat esolang actually < 1462853023 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to want something akin to bind and/or do-notation anyway < 1462853031 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure OOP < 1462853033 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :POOP < 1462853037 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm basically rephrasing what you were talking about < 1462853051 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With more emphasis on monads, maybe. < 1462853064 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that you get that much benefit out of having a monadic interface. < 1462853141 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you need *some* ways to glue these IO actions together. I hesitate to say that providing return and bind as operations is really giving you "monads" in any real sense, because the whole story about abstracting over a choice of monad is still lots more work. < 1462853181 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, if you prefer to glue together IO actions in some other ways, then those are fine too < 1462853211 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the type you would get is a monad, whether or not you recognize it. < 1462853291 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah -- though recognising it may not have much use if it doesn't let you write code which will work with any monad and reuse it. < 1462853427 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, people implement Maybe or State in various other languages, and they implement the monad operations for them, but I would resist the notion that they're "programming with monads" just for having done so -- the point at which you really start to use monads is when you write something like sequence or liftM2 and have it work for all the monads you'll ever define. < 1462853455 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People's implementations of Maybe are often scow because they collapse Nothing and Just Nothing. < 1462853460 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1462853464 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that too < 1462853477 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, did you know that Aeson's JSON encoding of Maybe does that? < 1462853496 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1462853504 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't, until information started getting destroyed in transit between my web frontend and backend < 1462853504 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it kind of fits with the JSON model. < 1462853548 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1462853552 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the JSON model is odd < 1462853562 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe Nothing is a stupid type < 1462853562 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because of its genesis in javascript < 1462853574 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: But it's a great value. < 1462853590 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript can't really distinguish between an explicit and implicit null < 1462853602 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not without effort < 1462853606 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use the Template Haskell stuff to write all our ToJSON/FromJSON instances for both the frontend and backend of our apps, and so mostly don't have to worry about how anything is being encoded < 1462853616 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Maybe 'Nothing < 1462853617 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : The first argument of ‘Maybe’ should have kind ‘*’, < 1462853617 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : but ‘Nothing’ has kind ‘Maybe k0’ < 1462853617 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : In a type in a GHCi command: Maybe Nothing < 1462853623 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR NOT < 1462853630 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: IIRC the Maybe Nothing thing was an accident rather than by design, wasn't it? < 1462853643 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, well, kinda < 1462853644 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Wait, never mind. < 1462853658 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I mean, how would you otherwise distinguish them in JSON? < 1462853668 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the default encoding of Maybe Foo is either as null or a Foo < 1462853669 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: They should be records with a tag < 1462853679 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't match common usage at all though < 1462853686 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aeson has template haskell code which will construct instances for an arbitrary algebraic data type < 1462853698 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have just used the TH code to write the instances, and everything would be good :) < 1462853701 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Maybe Nothing < 1462853703 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor ‘Maybe’ < 1462853703 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant variable ‘maybe’ (imported from Data.Maybe) < 1462853704 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't though < 1462853706 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just Nothing < 1462853708 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just Nothing < 1462853710 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then they wouldn't have a way to deserialize null < 1462853721 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just Nothing < 1462853722 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe (Maybe a) < 1462853738 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Nothing < 1462853739 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a < 1462853757 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just Just Nothing < 1462853757 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: like, if it was a record with a tag, so would the inside < 1462853758 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘Maybe a1 -> t’ < 1462853758 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘Maybe (a0 -> Maybe a0)’ < 1462853758 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : The function ‘Just’ is applied to two arguments, < 1462853771 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Just (Just Nothing) < 1462853772 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe (Maybe (Maybe a)) < 1462853784 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, I suppose I'm in a bit of a special position. We're using Haskell all the way through the applications I'm working on, so we don't actually *care* what the JSON looks like, so long as it's a faithful representation of the Haskell values. < 1462853785 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have { "isNull": "false", "value": { "isNull": "false", "value": "something" } } < 1462853799 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: yeah, that's an unusual use case < 1462853821 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i Just met you, and this is crazy, so here's my Number, so call me Maybe < 1462853829 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to understand nulls for a datatype is important for things like JSON merge-patch < 1462853843 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the problem is that Just x can't be encoded the same way as x < 1462853853 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs *some* kind of wrapper < 1462853860 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can *except* if x is itself a Maybe < 1462853866 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more accurately < 1462853871 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x itself has a null value < 1462853880 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aeson's model is that Maybe should be the only thing with a null value though < 1462853904 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I suppose you could do a bunch of awful type class nonsense to try to express which types have a JSON encoding that encodes something as null < 1462853923 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *could* define types like MaybeFoo = NoFoo | HasFoo Foo and serialize them "correctly" < 1462853934 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I ended up using Either () < 1462853991 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I recall that conversation actually, now that I think about it < 1462853993 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that works < 1462854000 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an iso anyway :P < 1462854006 0 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1462854015 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's just a really annoying gotcha < 1462854258 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect that in most cases where you had some particular JSON format you wanted to match, you'd be defining your own types to represent its values, and writing the ToJSON and FromJSON by hand anyway, and so you might as well handle the nulls yourself then. < 1462854278 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than having the Maybe instance do it for you) < 1462854326 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's unlikely < 1462854344 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the more realistic case is that you would have Maybe handle it < 1462854368 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would be thins like "this field is either a string or null" < 1462854424 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could still have some explicit "nullable" JSON parser combinator, which does that < 1462854441 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I dunno, I don't think of Maybe as being the same thing as nullable. < 1462854509 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think realizing the importance of things like Just Nothing vs. Nothing is one of the benefits you get from learning Haskell. < 1462854607 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my case, it came up sort of semi-automatically (it would have been in a case where the type to use would have been determined by associated types, but we hadn't yet got to the point of automating it when I ran into the problem) < 1462854625 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I think the use cases of nullables and Maybe are pretty similar < 1462854635 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the thing was regarding representing patches to a Map k v as values of type Map k (Maybe v) < 1462854668 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't a perfect encoding in general, since you'd really want that to involve a type representing a patch to a v, but regardless...) < 1462854697 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When v happened to already be Maybe t, this mysteriously fell over at runtime < 1462854706 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1462854713 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was quite hard to track down what the heck was happening < 1462854757 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of writing an extension to brainfuck -- would it be against the spirit of bf to add a single cell that can hold strings, for file handling and env variables?d < 1462854766 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(would have been harder still if the type class machinery for representing patches that we have now was in place) < 1462854808 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it sucks a bit needing to be careful that these type level programs which compute the types of patches don't accidentally put two Maybe's in a row < 1462854836 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: yeah, I feel like the "correct" solution there from a usability + workingness perspective would be to identify some types as supporting explicit nulls so that you can serialize them appropriately < 1462854850 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462854858 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the correct solution is just to treat Maybe as you would any other algebraic data type < 1462854858 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more JSON-y way would probably be null vs. { "value": null } vs. { "value": value } < 1462854871 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TH instance is *fine* < 1462854872 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks for common users now < 1462854892 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I agree -- note that it's only the *default* behaviour for Maybe < 1462854911 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Joe Stupid trying to use Aeson, I have a field which is encoded as either null or an integer < 1462854947 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try "Maybe Integer" but it always gives an error. I try "Integer" but it can't deserialize null. I give up and go use JavaScirpt. < 1462854975 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can still provide something like parseNullable :: Value -> Parser (Maybe a) < 1462854994 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I have to explicitly write my To/FromJson instances < 1462854997 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, parseNullable :: (FromJSON a) => Value -> Parser (Maybe a) < 1462855028 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, if you care about the precise JSON representation, it makes sense to be doing that anyway < 1462855029 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: how come sql doesn't have let ... in ... < 1462855039 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do people live without it < 1462855039 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because it's scow? < 1462855056 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't argue with that < 1462855062 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1462855085 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I don't think that's the point of Aeson, though. < 1462855086 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're at all interested in writing a new database, I have a few feature requests :P < 1462855147 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1462855167 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want a database with which my application can register a query in a semi-permanent fashion, and any time that a transaction commits which might affect the result of that query, the DB sends my application a diff of the results. < 1462855183 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apparently someone opened an issue < 1462855184 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bos/aeson/issues/376 < 1462855184 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: http://www.rethinkdb.com/ hth < 1462855201 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I worked at that company a few years ago, though it was a very different database back then.) < 1462855220 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: oh wait that's you < 1462855228 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: maybe that wasn't you who I remember complaining about it then < 1462855235 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall this discussion quite a while back < 1462855237 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, yeah, I also want it to be statically typed. < 1462855242 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, that was me :) < 1462855250 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously you would want that. < 1462855276 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and I want sum typed columns < 1462855304 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "this column is a primary key of table A, B, or C, and we know which" < 1462855316 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean that the value at a particular column is sum typed, or that you have one of a set of possible sets of columns? < 1462855333 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The value at a particular column < 1462855361 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the query language needs to be able to case on that information obviously < 1462855397 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been when I was lurking #yesod < 1462855425 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, I had most of this conversation in the bug ticket :) < 1462855446 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't hang out in #yesod, so it wouldn't have been there < 1462855458 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might've mentioned it in #haskell at the time < 1462855467 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: What do you think about protobufs? < 1462855484 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interesting thing about them is that they let you change a data type and keep backwards compatibility. < 1462855493 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know enough about them to have a strong opinion < 1462855503 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is somewhat in contrast to the Haskell philosophy of having a type be able represent exactly the values you want and no more. < 1462855550 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to reconcile the two. < 1462855576 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I don't think it was you, since it was definitely IRC and many months ago < 1462855583 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: the JSON merge-patch spec is actually a great example of JSON null conflation < 1462855593 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :common usage of JSON treats null weird < 1462855627 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use a sort of typed json at my work. the json is parsed into C++ a struct < 1462855638 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If people want to shoot themselves in the foot by conflating Nothing and Just Nothing, there probably should be a way to do it, but I don't think it should be the default thing < 1462855658 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it doesn't mathc the layout, it throws a character pointer < 1462855661 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You could also make a newtype for it. < 1462855685 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and put a big warning label on it regarding what happens when you nest them) < 1462855704 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protobufs are certainly a better way to do communication and serialization than JSON for a lot of things. < 1462855705 0 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1462855776 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget where I was going with this < 1462855881 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In our case, the thing we really need some sort of migration strategies for is with respect to the database (this is the main reason we're using groundhog, which is a library very similar to persistent, and I don't really understand the differences), moreso than the stuff we use JSON for. < 1462855901 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We *could* be just using Binary instances :) < 1462855958 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just nice that when something goes wrong, the browser can show you the JSON and it's somewhat readable, if ugly. < 1462855959 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's use case for protobufs is approximately everything. < 1462855964 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including RPC, for instance. < 1462856099 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I agree that it shouldn't allowed < 1462856117 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of forbidding nesting and leaving the instance more than I like the idea of changin gthe instance < 1462856156 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the other instance is usually the correct one < 1462856168 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else is asking for unnecessary gymnastics on the user's part < 1462856172 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:f0ad:ea5a:6ac9:6931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I sort of agree with you from the perspective of "what's most convenient for existing users", but I have half a mind just to fork the entire library to fix the thing :) < 1462856519 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462856813 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1462857251 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Elronnd14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46989 5* 03Elronnd 5* (+115) 10Created < 1462857334 0 :mukaiten!~Karim@RMHLON3409W-LP130-01-3096579136.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1462857381 0 :mukaiten!~Karim@RMHLON3409W-LP130-01-3096579136.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462857661 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn ksp changing their wheel physics < 1462858193 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics rotation < 1462858407 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1462858456 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Elronnd/brainfcuk14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46990 5* 03Elronnd 5* (+2905) 10First steps < 1462858774 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Elronnd/brainfcuk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46991&oldid=46990 5* 03Elronnd 5* (+32) 10update < 1462858907 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Do you know the type zzo38 calls CodensityAsk? < 1462858950 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen it < 1462858980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype CodensityAsk f a = CodensityAsk { runCodensityAsk :: forall r. f r -> (a -> r) -> r } < 1462859091 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1462859147 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 points out that CodensityAsk ((->) x) = Either x; CodensityAsk (Const x) = ((->) x); CodensityAsk Endo = Writer (Sum Natural); CodensityAsk Finalize = Identity; CodensityAsk Identity = Maybe < 1462859164 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where Finalize = Proxy, I guess. < 1462859215 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was that the one we discussed adapting the (co?)yoneda lemma to? < 1462859232 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to show those equivalences < 1462859243 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that. < 1462859281 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it was something differnet. < 1462859288 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1462859311 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some typos refuse to be fixed) < 1462859348 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're thinking of dithernet < 1462859356 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ethernet, but with more dithering < 1462859372 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1462859401 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall (x,x) was represented using Bool < 1462859463 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think it was some connection between expressing a functor f in terms of f () < 1462859482 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Representable functors? < 1462859486 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1462859529 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it involved something yonedal < 1462859684 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : < 1462859714 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actually I wish Dremel had let. < 1462859805 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're not talking about the Dremel I'm thinking of. < 1462859813 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I am. < 1462859823 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay then. < 1462859830 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Does it have let? < 1462859837 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowledge. < 1462859848 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mysterious assumption. < 1462859851 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have access to the docs for it, but don't think so. < 1462859863 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume dumb things all the time. < 1462860124 0 :Shubshub!~IceChat9@21.238.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1462860161 0 :Shubshub!~IceChat9@21.238.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey everyone < 1462860168 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1462860230 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arPhttps://www.dremel.com < 1462860249 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTPS over ARP? < 1462860250 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... https://www.dremel.com < 1462860269 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have typed something with this window focused < 1462860277 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine what, though < 1462860387 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : ok ? < 1462860413 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was pretty neat, is all. < 1462860422 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's related to adjunctions somehow, I think. < 1462860459 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, you know the definition of free objects that goes newtype Thing k a = Thing { runThing :: forall r. k a => (a -> r) -> r } < 1462860469 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cale: how come sql doesn't have let ... in ... < 1462860480 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :my link was in response to that ^ < 1462860514 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except a class can have laws and a type presumably doesn't. < 1462860545 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Yes, I know. < 1462860566 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1462860658 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Elronnd/brainfcuk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46992&oldid=46991 5* 03Elronnd 5* (+1688) 10file handling < 1462861893 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1462862108 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462863856 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462864113 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1462865363 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1462865842 0 :Shubshub!~IceChat9@21.238.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz QUIT :Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers. < 1462866524 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1462866679 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1462866780 0 :TellsTogo!d458ff4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.255.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1462867961 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ? < 1462868732 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Will you, yourself, bring an end to all? < 1462868733 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i was just dropping by and told the message about increasing the stack size a while ago back when we were playing around with variable allocation to attempt to solve impossible problems < 1462868765 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm guessing that's as good an approach as any to solve impossible problems. < 1462868857 0 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1462869263 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hungot < 1462869263 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but if another program will halt or not < 1462869286 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you just worry about yourself halting or not. let us worry about other programs. < 1462869286 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe so that the c literature doesn't use that many scheme primitives, only, max and make-string. < 1462869584 0 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1462870248 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you have a halting oracle? < 1462870249 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i could allocate esoapi a fnord of a < 1462870693 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1462870693 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1462870711 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what about using a sword? < 1462870712 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! < 1462870743 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well sort of evil. < 1462870743 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1462870767 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: peace would be nice. < 1462870767 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's t < 1462870796 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ah. better to drop the sword, then. < 1462870796 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! < 1462870802 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1462870802 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1462870923 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! this thing. < 1462871680 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style calvinandhobbes < 1462871680 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1462871856 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1462871856 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1462872723 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1462873668 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1462874403 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1462875671 0 :TellsTogo!d458ff4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.255.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1462876735 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the closest alternative to google code search? < 1462876797 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: rsc had a standalone version of google code search I think? < 1462876803 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only for *your* code. < 1462876912 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want other people's code < 1462876922 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1462876977 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading that imagemagick thing made me wonder how many projects call system() without proper input sanitization < 1462876983 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :github search? < 1462876992 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not good enough :( < 1462876994 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no regex, unfortunately < 1462877298 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImageMagick thing? < 1462877341 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagemagick is stupid and it calls system(something) with user input in it < 1462877354 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'd believe it < 1462877357 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imagetragick.com/ < 1462877444 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1462877462 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that this doesn't (directly) affect me < 1462878202 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1462878340 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462878601 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462880028 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1462880153 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1462880214 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow//Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targeryan. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it. < 1462880323 0 :earendel!~earendel@176.0.103.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1462880334 0 :earendel!~earendel@176.0.103.167 QUIT :Changing host < 1462880334 0 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1462880534 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? styofoam < 1462880537 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :styofoam? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462880545 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? styrofoam < 1462880547 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :styrofoam? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462880566 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? foam < 1462880567 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn styrofoam is Taneb's only weakness. < 1462880568 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foam? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462880578 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'styrofoam': styrofoam is Taneb's only weakness. < 1462880779 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/wAI1Jwm.jpg < 1462880868 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, from a certain point of view, that's very logical, although symptomatic of skewed priorities < 1462880955 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanelle. the sound, the smell, the touch of it makes you feel wrong? < 1462880956 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's grepcode.com, but it's only for Java stuff. < 1462881045 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, the sound, mostly < 1462881053 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The touch, too, to a lesser extent < 1462881083 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I buy something in styrofoam, I have to get someone else to unpack it while I'm in a different room < 1462881574 0 :TellsTogo!d458ff4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.255.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1462881725 0 :TellsTogo!d458ff4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.255.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1462882731 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: REALPOLITIK CHICKEN < 1462883645 0 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1462885568 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? top hat < 1462885570 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? high hat < 1462885573 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hi-hat < 1462885581 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? up hat < 1462885583 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hi hat < 1462885585 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? top quark < 1462885589 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? up quark < 1462885630 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wakey wakey, HackEgo < 1462885643 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric : kernel:[957239.928577] BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 21s! [nginx:632] < 1462885663 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`reboot < 1462885698 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462885707 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 61 umlbox processes all fighting for CPU time. < 1462885726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462885728 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :top hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885729 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462885729 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885729 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: reboot: not found < 1462885730 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462885731 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up quark? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885732 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a hard disk failure or a disk hard failure?? < 1462885758 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? high hat < 1462885759 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :high hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885765 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hi-hat < 1462885766 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi-hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885770 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? up hat < 1462885772 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885781 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? top quark < 1462885782 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :top quark? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462885802 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having much luck there. < 1462885841 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn high hat/A high hat is the same as a top hat, not the same as a hi-hat, just like how a top quark is not the same as an up quark. < 1462885844 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «high hat» < 1462886038 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? orkut < 1462886039 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orkut? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462886040 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? myspace < 1462886041 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myspace? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462886053 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? os/2 < 1462886055 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :os/2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462886057 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? os2 < 1462886058 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :os2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462886577 0 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1462886750 0 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462888349 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462888360 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1462888361 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo < 1462888629 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1462889756 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? vms < 1462889758 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vms? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462889769 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? plan9 < 1462889770 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462889771 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? plan-9 < 1462889773 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? plan 9 < 1462889773 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan-9? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462889774 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462889799 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hurd < 1462889801 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1462889812 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be something in there about those operating systems < 1462889826 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1462890063 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1462890066 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some kind of bitcoin inspired capture the flag programming game http://hackcha.in/ < 1462891347 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( does it hurd when I say this? ) < 1462891479 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1462891561 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Plan9 is the precursor to Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language. < 1462891569 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'plan9': Plan9 is the precursor to Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language. < 1462891575 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all true) < 1462891623 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let's tweak it a bit. < 1462891631 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Plan9 is the precursor to Dante's Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language. < 1462891636 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'plan9': Plan9 is the precursor to Dante's Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language. < 1462891761 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1462891908 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1462891994 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, so in C, the "%n" conversion takes type modifiers like "%zn" or "%hhn"? < 1462892168 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1462892174 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :%n is absolute ridiculous < 1462892232 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess worse is just the fact format strings need not be statically known < 1462892483 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, %n is totally useful. but %hhn is ridiculous. why is that even allowed? < 1462892526 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is %n useful < 1462892623 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: when I want to test if a sscanf match is successful, or consumed all of a string. for the former, it's easier to use than the return value of sscanf, because you don't have to count format entries in the pattern when writing the source code. for the latter, it's absolutely necessary. < 1462892659 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thats a nice techinique, i was only thinking about printf < 1462892675 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, for printf it's not very useful < 1462892681 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1462892793 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to contrive a use for %hhn, but so far I have nothing < 1462892812 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: you can probably find some eso-use < 1462892818 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some kind of cipher? < 1462892859 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to imagine what the motivation was for having it in printf < 1462892885 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone must have used it for *something* < 1462892915 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I think it's just so that sscanf handles writing integers uniformly, converting them to the right integer type regardless if the conversion is any of diouxXn < 1462892930 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules would have been uglier otherwise < 1462892946 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess that fits. < 1462892947 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then in sprintf, it would be strange to disallow it if sscanf allows it < 1462894504 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :%n is useful for exploiting C programs that give input strings directly to pritnf < 1462895307 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1462895632 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462895755 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting into new kernel < 1462895874 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1462895893 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462896511 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1462897467 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :You kinda-sorta can use %n with sprintf to save one extra strlen call, if you, say, print a number, and need to know how long it was. < 1462897553 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's a thought < 1462897708 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, you get *that* via the return value as well. But maybe you might conceivably need to know the lengths of some substrings. < 1462898018 0 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1462898071 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462898685 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462899008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1462900885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : no. because bots don't understand proper wiki formatting, nearly all have strange but obvious things like
instead of newlines < 1462900899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need to do
to do single-line breaks in mediawiki < 1462903480 0 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462903652 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462903697 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we could triple the topic's entertainingness by allowing "people" to be replaced with some other demonym (not sure what limiting condition to use yet) and "cloaks" to be other sorts of normal word-turned-tech word < 1462903748 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :folkses with cloakses < 1462903754 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: Note: reptilian overlords with will be treated as if they're from Saint Petersburg (not Saint Petersburg) < 1462903987 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net TOPIC #esoteric :The international hub of solid matrices | Home of the world's largest ball of threads | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: reptilian armada commanders with cookies will be treated as if they're from Saint Petersburg (not Saint Petersburg) < 1462903992 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just going to see if that sticks < 1462904008 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See #esoteric:Be Bold in editing the topic) < 1462904102 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1462904103 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1462904112 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft < 1462904112 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) < 1462904121 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Lovely weather we're having < 1462904121 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: published fnord 1922 in home brew vol. 1, p. fnord vol. 17, no. 1 ( march 1936), p. fnord. < 1462904138 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, fungot. That didn't work < 1462904139 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: " the flame the flame beyond body, beyond life in the boy, with imagination as his one avenue of freedom. he had, he declared, studies of much more vital importance to pursue; and intimated a wish to look out over the waters to the white ship < 1462904158 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a little better < 1462904200 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style darwin < 1462904200 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) < 1462904205 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1462904211 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Lovely evolution we're having < 1462904212 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]:/ offspring :) a single race, that :)/ fish to such a degree as before. i have heard it stated that they are anywhere lined by reefs; except in a very southerly course,/ whole, i.e. about/ rattle-snake, look to some special conditions :) life must play a most important fnord it might be a great kindness, and return them in hopes :) receiving another, it was tender when first introduced to a new edition :) ( youatt < 1462904217 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1462904225 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwin used a lot of smiley faces. < 1462904256 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style darwin+lovecraft < 1462904256 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1462904257 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1462904272 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fungot does not support compound styles. i iz sad. < 1462904318 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would that even mean < 1462904342 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would recommend a|b makes it choose between styles a and b for the entire message, and a&b would juxtapose the styles) < 1462904423 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It would take the "product" of the two styles (calculating by multiplying the frequencies of each word, with 0 equaling 1 so that words only used by 1 don't get thrown away), allowing it to sound a little darwin and a little lovecraft < 1462904468 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Thus, you might get Darwin talking about the evolution of cthulhu < 1462904476 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not really, but you get the picture) < 1462904490 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1462904490 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1462904498 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style help < 1462904498 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1462904571 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie fungot lacks support for compound styles (e.g. darwin&lovecraft), which gives me sads. < 1462904571 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1462904572 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: from/ facts above given and from/ honour so gained it might ultimately have become/ universal habit. according to parmentier " 5? 13. sir archibald geikie as having long been :( a subject :) which you have now fnord, fnord < 1462905414 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462905628 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462905809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2], hmm, i don't think that'd work with a markov chain < 1462905839 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: LIES < 1462905884 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462905966 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462905966 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1462906004 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1462906007 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's beginning to work! < 1462906010 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462906044 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1462906060 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462906068 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1462906351 0 :hwpplayer1!~hwpplayer@195.142.216.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1462906377 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpolating between n-gram models is certainly possible, but I don't think I feel like actually implementing that in Befunge. < 1462906392 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given how the current code is. < 1462906402 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You clearly have lost the spirit for #esoteric. Sorry to see you go. < 1462906522 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462906530 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code's rather intertwined with the binary file formats. For example, the n-grams are stored (and sampled from) in terms of numeric "tokens", which are mapped back to words only at a very late stage (once the entire sentence has been constructed), and the token-to-text mappings are entirely separate for each style. < 1462906579 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way for it to know that 1235 of the irc style is the same word as 724 of some other style, for example. < 1462906597 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could precompute some mixed styles, but that's so brute-force. < 1462906662 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh :/ < 1462906673 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Should've used hashing. < 1462906707 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1462906746 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the numbers wouldn't have been contiguous. < 1462906757 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And they're used directly as the file offsets.) < 1462906770 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1462907121 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1462907122 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1462907162 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hollowhenge Beast \ 3GG \ Creature -- Beast \ 5/5 \ DKA-C < 1462907162 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debt of Loyalty \ 1WW \ Instant \ Regenerate target creature. You gain control of that creature if it regenerates this way. \ WL-R < 1462907232 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish --english 20 < 1462907242 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: english < 1462907247 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1462907251 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was something else. < 1462907252 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words -l < 1462907254 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M < 1462907258 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish --eng-1M 20 < 1462907289 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alairali polkismal irrettama fundamentänsä ticotilitsentärkt ahaaso prcv ilonitschcl vercla imattin ait boot luche thinfini muristor ching notkikolly sannerastisaa hypähän geofyl < 1462907362 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1462907364 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-- solid halves \ 2 tb Dijon mustard \ \ In small bowl, stirring to decorate, about 4 minutes. \ \ Remove from pan or until it gets roll is cooked. Drain beans; spread one egg \ yolks in a large bowl. Pour off fruit slices. Make a slices of the sauces, \ and white replacer pieces from liquid. \ \ Recipe By : ISBN 315-786-1120 \ \ M < 1462907374 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1462907375 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/3 c Unsweetened cocoa \ 2 lb Boneless chicken \ -pepper; seeded \ 2 tb Sour cream or flour \ 1/4 ts Dried parsley \ 1/2 ts Baking soda \ 1/2 ts Cayenne pepper \ \ Cut onion and frozen into provide peach over tops of liquid. Mix cornmeal, syrup, \ pepper and chopped parsley. Makes 3 cups. Parchmenchic, \ Date: More excecked \ fat 199 < 1462907445 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1462907447 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yavimaya Ancients \ 3GG \ Creature -- Treefolk \ 2/7 \ {G}: Yavimaya Ancients gets +1/-2 until end of turn. \ AI-C, ME2-U < 1462907474 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1462907478 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptic Cruiser \ 3U \ Creature -- Eldrazi Processor \ 3/3 \ Devoid (This card has no color.) \ {2}{U}, Put a card an opponent owns from exile into that player's graveyard: Tap target creature. \ BFZ-U < 1462907494 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card BBB$ < 1462907496 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Necropotence \ BBB \ Enchantment \ Skip your draw step. \ Whenever you discard a card, exile that card from your graveyard. \ Pay 1 life: Exile the top card of your library face down. Put that card into your hand at the beginning of your next end step. \ IA-R, 5E-R, VMA-R, ME2-R, V09-M < 1462907520 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card WUBRG < 1462907521 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coalition Victory \ 3WUBRG \ Sorcery \ You win the game if you control a land of each basic land type and a creature of each color. \ IN-R, TSP-S < 1462907548 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card UNH < 1462907550 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loyal Cathar \ WW \ Creature -- Human Soldier \ 2/2 \ Vigilance \ When Loyal Cathar dies, return it to the battlefield transformed under your control at the beginning of the next end step. \ [Front face. Transforms into Unhallowed Cathar.] \ DKA-C < 1462907563 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card UNH- < 1462907565 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheap Ass \ 1W \ Creature -- Donkey Townsfolk \ 1/3½ \ Spells you play cost {½} less to play. \ UNH-C < 1462907565 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462907573 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit < 1462907574 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card UNH- < 1462907575 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphic Violence \ 2G \ Instant \ All creatures by the artist of your choice get +2/+2 and gain trample until end of turn. \ UNH-C < 1462907580 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1462907591 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You crashed eggbot xD < 1462907596 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's case-insensitive by default but can be case-sensitive with (?i) < 1462907606 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card comes into play < 1462907608 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charm School \ 2W \ Enchant Player \ When Charm School comes into play, choose a color and balance Charm School on your head. \ Prevent all damage to you of the chosen color. \ If Charm School falls off your head, sacrifice Charm School. \ UG-U < 1462907634 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card - [0-9]$ < 1462907636 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep Reconnaissance \ 2G \ Sorcery \ Search your library for a basic land card and put that card onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library. \ Flashback {4}{G} (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.) \ OD-U < 1462907656 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card \- [0-9]$ < 1462907659 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1462907670 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card ular < 1462907672 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gerrard's Irregulars \ 4R \ Creature -- Human Soldier \ 4/2 \ Trample, haste \ MM-C < 1462907675 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card ular < 1462907677 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Battle Mastery \ 2W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature has double strike. (It deals both first-strike and regular combat damage.) \ LRW-U, M15-U, DTK-U, DDL-U < 1462907689 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card dular < 1462907692 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcbound Reclaimer \ 4 \ Artifact Creature -- Golem \ 0/0 \ Remove a +1/+1 counter from Arcbound Reclaimer: Put target artifact card from your graveyard on top of your library. \ Modular 2 (This enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it. When it dies, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact creature.) \ DST-R < 1462907711 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card [0-9] \( < 1462907713 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reality Acid \ 2U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant permanent \ Vanishing 3 (This Aura enters the battlefield with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from it. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.) \ When Reality Acid leaves the battlefield, enchanted permanent's controller sacrifices it. \ PLC-C < 1462907717 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card [0-9] \( < 1462907719 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forked-Branch Garami \ 3GG \ Creature -- Spirit \ 4/4 \ Soulshift 4, soulshift 4 (When this creature dies, you may return up to two target Spirit cards with converted mana cost 4 or less from your graveyard to your hand.) \ BOK-U < 1462907826 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462907835 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What prefix should eggbot use? < 1462907841 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently it's --, but it doesn't do anything < 1462907867 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: um, what will it want to do? < 1462907877 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Just a collection of fun tools < 1462907882 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Like IRC Thoof < 1462907893 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: you can try "EggBot: " as the prefix at first < 1462907902 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That is supported as well < 1462907905 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only later add shortcuts if it's useful < 1462907908 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1462907910 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just stick with that for now, thanks < 1462907911 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: help < 1462907916 0 :notfowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the single digit punctuations are taken I think < 1462907918 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: commands < 1462907920 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It doesn't have any commands yet < 1462907925 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: list < 1462907927 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: version < 1462907933 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: unignore < 1462907934 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No commands at all < 1462907937 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1462907944 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's just an empty shell ATM < 1462907945 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even hidden ones? < 1462907954 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: invite perlbot < 1462907964 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EggBot: join #esoteric-blah < 1462907978 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Literally nothing. It's not done yet < 1462907991 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but, I still have to try < 1462909563 0 :EggBot!~EggBot@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1462909588 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1462909910 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1462910390 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Quit: gtg < 1462912329 0 :shikhin!?@? NICK :shikhincat < 1462912359 0 :shikhincat!?@? NICK :shikhin < 1462912402 0 :ybden!?@? NICK :neither < 1462912412 0 :neither!?@? NICK :either < 1462912416 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1462912427 0 :either!?@? NICK :ybden < 1462912934 0 :hwpplayer1!~hwpplayer@195.142.216.231 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1462912993 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason < 1462913015 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm translating Romeo and Juliet into a highly exaggerated version of gamerspeak in a Garry's Mode chat log < 1462913028 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With a friend. For an assignment. At school. That I plan to turn in.) < 1462913037 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point, this line appears: < 1462913049 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :[S4MP50N Quickscopes a Tromp Rat npc from the "1337 5p4ce F1gh75 M0d" mod] < 1462913055 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I made that joke < 1462913089 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of hybrid between a Star Wars reference, some xkcd jokes, and a reference that no one will ever get to this specific channel < 1462913270 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :("tromp rat") < 1462913300 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drlztqfknvbeahig JOIN :#esoteric < 1462913301 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no one will ever get the reference; they'll just think it's a slightly-off-brand rename from "womp rat") < 1462914142 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get home in time to see the first Eurovision semi-final live. :/ < 1462915114 0 :TellsTogo!d458ff4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.88.255.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1462916076 0 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1462916122 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1462916139 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1462916154 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1462917931 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462917960 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1462918046 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :N1:1:aa;Naa:2:aa;$o=aa < 1462918472 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Moon14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46993 5* 03Moon 5* (+59) 10/* Bug reporting */ new section < 1462919191 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1462919249 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the stub code? < 1462919257 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for making a article a stub? < 1462919448 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess {{Template:Stub}}, but maybe somebody could confirm. < 1462919462 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or just look at an existing stub article for reference.) < 1462919478 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07N--14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46994 5* 03Moon 5* (+438) 10Created page with "N-- is a 3 instruction minimalistic variable based language, it has three commands. * N: Nand, format: Ninput1:input2:outputvar; * =: Set variable, format: var=varnumorchar;..." < 1462919509 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just {{stub}} as well. < 1462919522 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess maybe template transclusion picks from the template namespace by default? Who knows. < 1462919531 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you told me too late lol, i hit the wrong button anyways < 1462919539 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07N--14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46995&oldid=46994 5* 03Moon 5* (+9) 10 < 1462919540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how we can't use any standard mediawiki infrastructure because the wiki is public domain < 1462919572 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of that infrastructure is CC? < 1462919609 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :N1:1:aa;Naa:2:aa;$o=aa does a thing, what it does i dunno, as i havent make a intepreter yet < 1462919712 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is it? < 1462919719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you mean on the esolang wiki or? < 1462919757 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard infrastructure you referenced < 1462919809 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-- < 1462919816 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one i just published :P < 1462919857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia's CC licence does not allow you to relicense to PD < 1462919866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, because otherwise it'd just be a PD licence < 1462919915 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i was asking. ifvall that stuff was CC < 1462919947 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to know what is PD and what is not < 1462919960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it is, because it's under the standard wikipedia licence < 1462919995 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PD? < 1462919999 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, public domain < 1462920001 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1462920008 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Police department. < 1462920023 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pooch Department < 1462920048 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Posh detergent. < 1462920076 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07N--14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46996&oldid=46995 5* 03Moon 5* (+97) 10Hello, world! example, i forgot it < 1462920111 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Would it work to get whoever runs the wiki to allow a license exemption where "Most of the wiki is public domain, but specially-marked areas are CC"? < 1462920119 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus allowing us to use mediawiki infrastructure? < 1462920129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need every contributor to relicense it < 1462920134 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1462920147 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, our wiki < 1462920154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1462920167 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who would have the power to do such a thing? < 1462920172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. we've gotten by OK as it is, i just find it kind of amusing < 1462920200 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: that would make the wiki less esoteric < 1462920202 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does using MediaWiki force all the content to be under CC? < 1462920231 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it that the wiki itself is also meant to be PD? < 1462920232 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediawiki does not care about content licensing < 1462920238 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikimedia does < 1462920290 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, so same question mutatis mutandis < 1462920298 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1462920501 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia there you go: N1:1:aa;Naa:2:aa;$o=aa + N-- specs = program < 1462920781 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, int-e. i shaved off a few more bits < 1462920806 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what? < 1462920816 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the laver tables:( < 1462920844 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/laver.lam < 1462920859 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamver tables < 1462920910 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does BLC turn recursion into an inline Y combinator? < 1462920915 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1462921021 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462921045 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :see lines 57-62 of Lambda.lhs < 1462921056 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I found it. < 1462921063 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the compiler do all sorts of optimizations? < 1462921077 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sorts. see optimize function in AIT.lhs < 1462921130 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it beta-reduce fix? < 1462921152 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if it reduces size < 1462921174 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not fix itself, but application of fix < 1462921181 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1462921195 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462921205 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot more optimization it could do < 1462921241 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like eta reduction < 1462921241 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what it does. < 1462921255 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is BLC non-strict? < 1462921269 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1462921282 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1462921326 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Haskell implementation is as lazy as Haskell itself < 1462921345 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obfuscated interpreter is call-by-need < 1462921365 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the interest of saving many bytes:) < 1462921581 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-83.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1462921880 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so when you name an expression in a BLC program, does it just get inlined in every place it's used? < 1462921897 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it make a lambda and apply it to an argument? < 1462921923 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second, but if only used once, a beta reduction will be applied to give the first < 1462921961 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it's not the first argument? < 1462921973 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1462921980 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1462922030 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be the first argument of some expr then < 1462922064 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a let defining 3 names will compile to 3 applications < 1462922069 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but that expression might be an application and not a lambda. < 1462922099 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean something like ((\x -> (\y -> ...x...x...y...x...x...)) many) one < 1462922197 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parentheses wrong? you mean y binds to many? < 1462922211 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: "save two bits" can't be right... it works for a = 0 and a = 1, and somewhat amazingly for a = 2 as well, but for a = 3 and b = 1 it gives 0 instead of 2 as its answer. < 1462922249 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, x binds to many. < 1462922267 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462922274 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since there are many occurrences of x and one of y. < 1462922291 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, then one is not substituted for y < 1462922303 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check that, int-e < 1462922308 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: laver (\f\x. f (f (f x))) (\f\x. f (f (f x))) (\f\x. f x) < 1462922345 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do you order the lambdas in let-in to put the ones that are likely to be reduced first? < 1462922360 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: (that should be 2) < 1462922393 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm testing with argument order mx, a, b. < 1462922489 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1462922526 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do not re-order the lambdas from a let < 1462922707 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reason that a = 2 works is because 2 |> _ is idempotent. 3 |> _ is not idempotent; 3 |> 1 is 2, but 3 |> (3 |> (3 |> 1)) is 0) < 1462922845 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, i see the problem < 1462922974 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do i revert back to the last good commit? < 1462923037 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(git newbie here) < 1462923051 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like git checkout 796e4fe368bd82800f011cec49e7f201b2f1e49f laver.lam < 1462923088 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(git diff --cached will show that this actually had an effect... git diff won't) < 1462923088 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or git revert. < 1462923121 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I've never used git revert with mre than one commit... < 1462923142 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can give it a range, it looks like. < 1462923223 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's not nicely applicable here because one of the commits touches two files... one of which is now gone... < 1462923246 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ok, i'll re-commit the older checkout < 1462923359 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to 215 bits < 1462923392 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and revert would produce two commits ... which could then be smashed with rebase... the checkout was simpler :) < 1462923420 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :revert -n < 1462923459 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, that would do the trick < 1462923552 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there would still be an awkward conflict to resolve though) < 1462923607 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for teaching purposes, I agree that's what I should've suggested :P < 1462923616 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1462923626 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all fine. < 1462923647 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is TG < 1462923700 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transcendentally groovy. < 1462923767 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1462924004 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :transcendtal e groove e < 1462924116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Oh, but your let definitions are ordered. < 1462924320 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, manually < 1462924360 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so writing them in a different order might help optimization < 1462924417 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait. your example may not fit the let expansion pattern < 1462924469 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in expanded let every name is available for reducing < 1462924645 0 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-252.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to upvote at http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/79620/laver-table-computations-and-an-algorithm-that-is-not-known-to-terminate-in-zfc :) < 1462924706 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a traditional variant on glob that's suitable for configuring /output/ in substitutions? Like, a glob4s/// of some sort < 1462924734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional globs are pretty limited