00:34:18 -!- TellsTogo has joined.
00:41:53 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett).
00:45:05 -!- Warrigal has joined.
00:46:21 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett.
00:51:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:57:29 <prooftechnique> A TODO is like a check you write yourself for a million dollars. It'd be great if it went through one day, but they tend to just bounce until you lose hope and start writing Java
01:13:56 -!- Mike_ has joined.
01:14:20 -!- Mike_ has changed nick to Guest60822.
01:14:34 <Guest60822> Hello, I had a few questions about the few questions about thue
01:15:39 <fizzie> How meta.
01:18:56 <fizzie> (Just go ahead and ask, although I don't think resident Thue experts are present at the moment.)
01:19:24 <shachaf> Lawyerth?
01:25:19 <Phantom_Hoover> jesus christ
01:25:19 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstring/strtok/
01:25:25 <Phantom_Hoover> this is an actual function in C
01:25:42 <Phantom_Hoover> someone thought this was a good way of implementing a string split
01:26:21 -!- Guest60822 has quit (Quit: Page closed).
01:27:48 <fizzie> It's traditional.
01:28:10 <fizzie> Calling strtok on a string literal is one of the constantly recurring ##c topics.
01:29:57 <fizzie> `runc #include <string.h> \n int main(void) { strtok("foo bar", " "); }
01:30:07 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/runc: line 3:   300 Segmentation fault      $t
01:30:13 <shachaf> fizzie: I worked on a program that used strtok to parse argv.
01:30:13 -!- tromp_ has joined.
01:30:37 <shachaf> It was pretty confusing to look at it in the process list.
01:31:19 <fizzie> That rings a bell, probably seen it happen as well.
01:31:41 <FireFly> ick.
01:32:02 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:32:14 -!- tromp_ has joined.
01:32:44 -!- TellsTogo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:33:10 <shachaf> strtok ought to use self-modifying code.
01:33:52 <shachaf> And instead of strtok_r, you should be required to copy the code of strtok into a new writable executable buffer.
01:34:06 <shachaf> That way you can keep the same API.
01:36:19 <fizzie> The C99 rationale says strsep was rejected because "it's easy enough for a user to provide this functionality, and it is unclear that an implementor can do a substantially better job; so, there was not sufficient support for adding this feature."
01:36:31 <fizzie> (strsep also modifies the string, but at least it uses a strtok_r-style scheme for keeping the state in the caller.)
01:37:44 <fizzie> (Well, arguably even a more reasonable one, since it avoids that nonsense about passing NULL as the first argument.)
01:45:06 -!- centrinia has joined.
01:49:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:51:31 -!- TellsTogo has joined.
01:59:05 -!- oerjan has joined.
02:08:20 -!- menwithHill has joined.
02:08:33 <menwithHill> Why is "polynomial time" named as such in computer science?
02:09:29 <oerjan> because the time used is bounded by a polynomial in the input size.
02:10:27 -!- Kaynato has joined.
02:13:56 <shachaf> oerjan: but why isn't it called "monomial time"
02:13:56 <menwithHill> oerjan: and NP being when there is no final halting of the computations?
02:14:49 <pikhq> I really wish that when C11 hit they also added the POSIX-only thread safe versions of functions (such as strtok_r).
02:14:53 <oerjan> menwithHill: no, the N in NP is for "nondeterministic"
02:15:21 <menwithHill> oerjan: ok.  thank you
02:15:33 <shachaf> i,i which means it's bounded by a nondeterministic polynomial
02:15:40 <pikhq> But nooo, they only added something with the same functionality as strerror_r, only more painful to use.
02:15:44 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:15:47 <pikhq> (strerror_s :()
02:17:24 <fizzie> pikhq: strtok_s is in C11, right? 
02:17:33 <fizzie> Well, optionally.
02:17:59 <pikhq> Oh, right, they did add that too.
02:18:27 <pikhq> It's still basically strtok_r only less convenient.
02:19:02 <pikhq> Gah, the *_s functions. Functions only implemented (in a non-conformant way) by a vendor that can't be bothered to implement C99, but managed to push features in C11 anyways.
02:19:38 <shachaf> Well, C99 is 9 times as hard to implement as C11.
02:20:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:32:46 <Cale> menwithHill: NP is the class of decision problems which are solvable in an amount of time bounded by a polynomial in the input size, on a nondeterministic Turing machine -- which is like an ordinary Turing machine, except that you can have multiple transitions for the same initial condition, and the machine takes both paths simultaneously (which means that you can have an exponential blowup in the number of states that the machine/tap
02:32:46 <Cale> e is presently in).
02:33:27 <Cale> Basically Turing machines with unbounded parallel forking
02:33:54 <shachaf> Why do people take nondeterministic machines as a primitive?
02:34:21 <shachaf> I don't exactly have anything against them, but they seem like a bit of an odd and arbitrary construction.
02:35:17 <menwithHill> Cale: thank you
02:35:58 <shachaf> `? np
02:36:18 <HackEgo> np? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:37:08 <Cale> shachaf: At this point it's got to be mainly that there are interesting difficult problems to be solved.
02:37:32 <Cale> P vs. NP is almost motivation enough :)
02:37:43 <menwithHill> nondet. machine seems to mean a machine with unlimited power of computation
02:38:02 <lifthrasiir> not really
02:38:16 <shachaf> Maybe I should think of it as "always taking the right path" rather than "taking all paths".
02:38:20 <lifthrasiir> it can do the exactly same kind of computation, only the performance differs
02:38:44 <lifthrasiir> (exponentially)
02:39:01 <menwithHill> lifthrasiir: step by step algorithms?
02:39:06 <lifthrasiir> ?
02:39:18 <Cale> shachaf: Another way to look at it is that NP is the class of decision problems for which a polynomial-length certificate can be constructed such that given that certificate, the solution to the problem can be checked in polynomial time.
02:39:30 <shachaf> Right.
02:39:32 <menwithHill> lifthrasiir: as "kind of computation"
02:39:58 <lifthrasiir> I... I think I cannot understand what does it mean
02:42:46 <fizzie> Cale: That's fine, but then people start asking about the "N".
02:55:03 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
02:58:28 -!- ybden has quit (Quit: I'm not even angry now).
03:00:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
03:03:09 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:03:30 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:13:40 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!).
03:49:33 -!- tromp_ has joined.
03:51:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
03:53:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
03:55:36 -!- tromp_ has joined.
03:56:12 -!- augur has joined.
04:14:12 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:39:03 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:42:59 -!- tromp_ has joined.
05:23:13 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:32:03 -!- Cale_ has joined.
05:33:27 -!- Cale has quit (Disconnected by services).
05:34:20 -!- Cale_ has changed nick to Cale.
05:54:51 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
06:23:46 -!- tromp_ has joined.
06:28:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:56:42 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
07:02:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
07:03:43 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye).
07:15:35 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
08:01:10 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
08:23:49 -!- tromp_ has joined.
08:27:22 -!- J_Arcane__ has joined.
08:28:22 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:28:59 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
08:29:02 -!- J_Arcane__ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
09:25:10 -!- tromp_ has joined.
09:26:39 <b_jonas> `random-card nightmare
09:28:10 <HackEgo> Spellgorger Barbarian \ 3R \ Creature -- Human Nightmare Barbarian \ 3/1 \ When Spellgorger Barbarian enters the battlefield, discard a card at random. \ When Spellgorger Barbarian leaves the battlefield, draw a card. \ JUD-C
09:28:11 <b_jonas> "<shachaf> Why do people take nondeterministic machines as a primitive?" => probably at the influence of Chomsky? or did it start before him?
09:30:09 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
09:39:04 -!- menwithHill has quit.
10:29:33 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:31:09 -!- deltab has joined.
10:56:40 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving).
10:57:26 -!- moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
11:08:56 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:09:38 -!- jix has joined.
11:11:08 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit).
11:11:17 -!- jix has joined.
11:26:21 -!- rodgort has joined.
11:30:55 -!- boily has joined.
11:36:49 <boily> fungot: do you moon ranges? do you even have buttocks to moon ranges with?
11:36:49 <fungot> boily: so this is the same. trolls think fashion is stupid. stop doing nothing but wondering what could it be the same but different too m4ny h1ghly just1f1abl3 4nd w3ll d3s3rv3d punch3s w1ll b3 thrown 1n du3 t1m3
11:37:11 <boily> fungot: don't punch me. it's uncouth hth
11:37:11 <fungot> boily: in a good way though you are not really sure that we will meet again! not even a gulli8le dope like you.
11:37:40 <boily> fungot: eille.
11:37:40 <fungot> boily: but that jackass won't shut up and stop the thief in the throes of an unraveling alibi. " the massacre of syrs gnelph was not as written a message you got, my brother, and we just keep the safe or tub handy or the other, to function as the better half. the two partners in a strong pale relationship will serve to balance and complement each other's, since there is no quadrant which naturally conceals two licorice scotty d
11:37:52 * boily mapoles the fungot
11:37:52 <fungot> boily: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds?. perhaps to leave that crap in the shitty scifi novels where his favorite movies. he would just go on and on about it.
11:43:23 -!- rodgort has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:49:01 -!- ybden has joined.
11:55:17 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
11:59:25 -!- rodgort has joined.
12:06:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:07:20 -!- augur has joined.
12:09:57 -!- Tiktalik has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
12:11:37 <fizzie> fungot: *You* just go on and on about it.
12:11:37 <fungot> fizzie: for a while it was frustrating. wasn't nothin but misfortune...
12:11:40 -!- Tiktalik has joined.
12:22:17 <b_jonas> `coins
12:22:20 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:22:25 <b_jonas> `recipe
12:23:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
12:23:53 <HackEgo> he chilline for one out of the apple mashed. \  Sprinkle the parsley and flour and set aside. Fry the chops to a \  boil, and simmer for about 30 minutes, or until the mixture is \  coated and all the beef dispalles are done. \   \  2. In a large bowl mix beans, and salt in skillet over medium high heat, inchen and \  until soft comes out. Reduce t
12:24:00 <HackEgo> No output.
12:24:06 <HackEgo> No output.
12:24:17 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:24:19 <b_jonas> `recipe
12:24:29 <HackEgo> Chopped onions; chopped \  1 ts Salt and pepper \  1 ts Salt \  1/3 c Water \  3/4 c Confectioners shortening \  2 tb Chopped fresh cilantro \  1 ts Salt \  1/4 ts Ground cumin \  1/2 ts Dijon; softened \   \  Mix ingredients in a large cookie sheet, about 3 minutes. Sprinkle \  peaches and parsley. \   \  Per serving: 207 mg chol cooled, 15 grams 
12:24:29 <HackEgo> Patriarch's Desire \ 3B \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +2/-2. \ Threshold -- Enchanted creature gets an additional +2/-2 as long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard. \ OD-C
12:25:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LEG CHICKEN).
12:55:47 -!- Kaynato has joined.
13:02:25 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
13:09:59 -!- oerjan has joined.
13:26:35 -!- tromp_ has joined.
13:30:26 -!- carado has joined.
13:31:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:39:56 -!- variable has joined.
13:53:28 -!- spiette has joined.
13:53:32 -!- spiette has quit (Client Quit).
13:58:39 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero).
14:01:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:15:25 <fizzie> oerjan: int-e: Just to keep you up to date on current news, we've migratated the domain over, and it's been renewed for a year as well.
14:15:32 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
14:16:49 <oerjan> yay!
14:20:09 -!- carado- has joined.
14:20:45 -!- tromp_ has joined.
14:21:15 -!- carado- has changed nick to carado.
14:26:45 -!- mroman has joined.
14:27:45 <mroman> what happens when you have a system that keeps "data" alive by just re-transmitting it
14:27:50 <mroman> but never storing the whole data
14:28:21 <Taneb> Like delay line memory?
14:28:29 <mroman> There are nodes in the internet, these nodes connect to other nodes. Everything a node receives, it just broadcasts it to the other nodes
14:28:57 <mroman> you read like I don't know 4MB chunks of data or something like that
14:29:06 <mroman> then re-transmit it to other nodes
14:29:13 <mroman> not storing what you have transmitted so far.
14:30:02 <mroman> it would be interesting how much data you can store on the "line"
14:30:12 <mroman> It takes some time for data to arrive at the other endpoint.
14:30:30 <mroman> it'd probably work with just two nodes
14:30:37 <mroman> you send data, the other one sends it back
14:31:01 <mroman> the amount of data you can send before you receive the first byte back should be the amount of bytes you can store "in the interweb"
14:33:11 <izabera> how do you find what you're looking for?
14:33:42 <mroman> that's another issue :D
14:33:59 <mroman> but you could tag streams somehow
14:34:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:34:10 <mroman> like the first few bytes are the id of the datastream
14:34:20 <mroman> you just listen on the network until you find what you need then start logging the traffic
14:34:34 <mroman> but you can hardly delete anything.
14:35:35 <izabera> that's easy
14:36:02 <izabera> just go offline
14:36:41 <mroman> well if you broadcast to n-nodes each
14:36:46 <mroman> then that won't do the trick :)
14:37:24 <izabera> you can't broadcast to more nodes
14:37:31 <mroman> why not?
14:37:37 <izabera> you run out of space
14:37:54 <mroman> hm?
14:39:00 <mroman> since you can tag streams you can prevent that you re-broadcast the same thing more than once at the same time
14:39:25 <mroman> if you're already broadcasting stream N, and some node connects to you and broadcasts stream N you can deny that request
14:40:18 <mroman> there might be cases where you receive more than you can broadcast
14:40:46 <mroman> which should give congestion signals back to the nodes somehow
14:40:55 <mroman> causing them to send less data
14:41:10 <mroman> either way if all the protocols work correctly together there should be an equilibrium of some sort?
14:56:17 -!- `^_^v has joined.
14:57:37 <fizzie> It sounds like what you get when you're designing a normal distributed file system, but flip a minus sign for the "minimize bandwidth use" term in the cost function your design is trying to optimize.
15:01:04 <fizzie> I don't think you could really make things work so smoothly that you'd have all the data in "the wire" without being ready to either buffer it at the nodes or lose it, because the "storage capacity" of the connection will clearly fluctuate a lot.
15:02:20 <mroman> true
15:02:45 <mroman> basically as soon as you have more data than you can send before receiving the first thing you've sent again you need to buffer it somewhere
15:02:54 -!- spiette has joined.
15:03:15 <fizzie> It all sounds vaguely familiar, but I seem to be finding only boring reasonable pages when looking up what I'm vaguely recalling.
15:03:24 <mroman> but the idea as that some of the data is buffered by routers and network equipment of ISPs
15:03:31 <fizzie> On cloud storage and organizing cables on your desk and such.
15:03:55 <mroman> of course, once they notice what you're doing they'll pretty much cancel your subscription :D
15:04:28 <mroman> anyway, i'll probably write some 1h hackish software and experiment with that
15:05:00 <mroman> would hardly require more than a bit socket code to get a first prototype working
15:05:24 <mroman> that and test computers
15:08:44 -!- spiette_ has joined.
15:11:20 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:16:00 -!- Akaibu has joined.
15:18:12 -!- spiette_ has changed nick to spiette.
15:26:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
15:34:34 -!- tromp_ has joined.
15:39:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:44:58 -!- contrapumpkin has joined.
15:48:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
15:57:46 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin.
16:02:34 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
16:11:26 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!).
16:30:25 -!- spiette has joined.
16:36:26 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
16:41:38 -!- Kaynato has joined.
16:45:46 -!- jaboja has joined.
16:47:58 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
16:48:37 -!- Reece` has joined.
16:49:12 -!- Cale has joined.
16:57:32 <f10d4> re
17:00:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
17:18:59 -!- jaboja has joined.
17:34:36 -!- tromp_ has joined.
17:39:02 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:11:02 -!- MartinS has joined.
18:12:38 -!- relrod has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18:15:50 -!- relrod_ has joined.
18:15:51 -!- relrod_ has quit (Changing host).
18:15:51 -!- relrod_ has joined.
18:16:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:21:06 -!- TellsTogo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:23:36 -!- MartinS has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18:36:00 -!- tromp_ has joined.
18:40:52 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:20:07 <Taneb> What's a good time to set an alarm for a 9AM exam
19:20:15 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude.
19:21:12 <fowl> 7 and every half hour between 7 and 9
19:21:50 * fowl doesn't fully wake up until he's in a rage from 2 hours of alarms going off
19:22:06 <int-e> how long will it take you to get there
19:22:26 <int-e> do you want to have breakfast
19:23:03 <Taneb> Hmm, fifteen or twenty minutes, and I'd like ten minutes for breakfast
19:23:21 <Taneb> I think I'll go every fifteen minutes from 7 to 8:30
19:23:26 <int-e> (those were my criteria... with the answer to the latter question being no... I just aimed to be there 10 minutes before the exam starts)
19:23:45 <Taneb> Although knowing me I'm gonna be so worked up about it I'll wake up at five
19:26:13 <int-e> otoh I'd plan for taking a shower
19:26:42 <Taneb> I have 7 exams in 7 days, I'm afraid hygiene is not my highest priority
19:27:30 <int-e> well it's good for relaxation
19:27:35 <shachaf> but a shower will also help you think better
19:33:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:42:35 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:46:33 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:49:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:52:41 -!- tromp_ has joined.
20:04:09 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod.
20:15:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:29:39 -!- jaboja has joined.
20:38:59 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
20:39:14 -!- `^_^v has joined.
20:51:30 -!- idris-bot has joined.
21:11:16 <hppavilion[1]> Algebraic Chess
21:12:50 <int-e> no, "algebraic chess notation" is not a notation for algebraic chess
21:17:44 <b_jonas> `wisdom
21:17:53 <coppro> int-e: that sounds wise
21:18:00 -!- gamemanj has joined.
21:18:08 <b_jonas> `? algebraic chess notation
21:18:43 <int-e> please don't
21:19:10 <coppro> `le/rn algebraic chess notation/ algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess
21:19:30 <HackEgo> ​αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo!
21:19:30 <HackEgo> algebraic chess notation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:19:39 <HackEgo> Learned «algebraic chess notation»
21:20:23 <int-e> poor oerjan
21:20:35 <int-e> he'll feel compelled to remove the inital space and add a period at the end
21:21:21 <int-e> and then he'll ramble about how he's retired
21:21:25 <coppro> `algebraic chess notation
21:21:27 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: algebraic: not found
21:21:32 <coppro> `?algebraic chess notation
21:21:33 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?algebraic: not found
21:21:37 <b_jonas> space
21:21:37 <coppro> `? algebraic chess notation
21:21:39 <HackEgo> ​ algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess
21:21:44 <coppro> fiiine
21:21:51 <coppro> `le/rn algebraic chess notation/algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess.
21:21:56 <HackEgo> Relearned «algebraic chess notation»
21:22:05 <coppro> `quote
21:22:05 <coppro> `quote
21:22:05 <coppro> `quote
21:22:05 <coppro> `quote
21:22:05 <coppro> `quote
21:23:46 <HackEgo> 548) <fizzie> I prefer the N64 controller, it's the only one that has place for my third hand.
21:23:46 <HackEgo> 1167) <Slereah_> And neutrinos aren't small neutrons!  <Bike> They are small and neutral, though.  <Slereah_> So is Switzerland
21:23:46 <HackEgo> 696) <fizzie> fungot: Feeling scrambled after all that?  <fungot> fizzie: but it's much like new zealand, in my stone-age country, we still like you even if you're only using the new fnord
21:23:46 <HackEgo> 93) <fungot> pikhq: from csh type ' exit', is a simple protocol which provides an interface to c. [...]
21:23:47 <HackEgo> 320) <pikhq_> And if they wanted to go for "true" security, they'd just do "Warning: your computer has not been turned into a plasma. This may cause some of your personal data to be stolen. Click here to turn your computer into a ball of incandescent gas, a gigantic nuclear furnace."
21:25:51 <shachaf> coppro: what if you just `sedlast s/.//
21:25:55 <shachaf> `cat bin/sedlast
21:25:58 <HackEgo> files="$(lastfiles)"; sed -i "$1" "$files"; echo -n "$files//"; cat "$files"
21:28:01 <coppro> shachaf: that wouldn't have handled the leading space. though I guess I could have done two expressions?
21:28:15 <shachaf> Why wouldn't it?
21:28:29 <coppro> your expression only fixes one of the two errors
21:31:21 <shachaf> Oh, I didn't notice that part.
21:32:01 <shachaf> `sedlast s/.//;s/$/./
21:32:10 <shachaf> Something like that.
21:32:46 <shachaf> Not confusing enough.
21:33:33 <shachaf> sedlast s;.;;;s $ . 
21:33:34 <shachaf> There we go.
21:34:10 <shachaf> `` echo ' blah blah' | sed 's; ;;;s $ . '
21:34:14 <HackEgo> blah blah.
21:41:29 <b_jonas> ohai
21:45:22 <fizzie> Huh, I didn't even know you could use space.
21:59:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:59:59 <int-e> . o O ( Space is not used; it's occupied. For example: "What's your occupation?" - "About 80 liters." )
22:00:34 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!).
22:06:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:09:21 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:16:52 <fizzie> oerjan: Happy Norway something-or-another day.
22:17:16 <fizzie> I don't know what day it is, but the SIXT car rental company emailed me an ad about it.
22:17:53 <oerjan> it's constitution day, aka our national day.
22:18:07 <fizzie> "Norwegians get happier and we are celebrating our country's birthday on May 17th. The streets will be filled with people wearing their national dress."
22:18:12 <fizzie> Also 10% of all car rentals.
22:19:08 <oerjan> (celebrating the signing of the constitution in 1814. although i vaguely recall claims it's a day off.)
22:19:45 <oerjan> i didn't dress up, national or otherwise, although i did eat a better dinner.
22:21:37 <b_jonas> nice
22:21:47 <b_jonas> oerjan: were there fireworks?
22:21:48 <f10d4> 0
22:27:44 -!- ybden has changed nick to molum.
22:29:16 <oerjan> b_jonas: no, that's only a new year custom.
22:30:08 <oerjan> instead, there are two parades and heaps of marching brass bands.
22:30:14 <b_jonas> I see
22:30:31 <shachaf> molum: WHy do you change nicks all the time?
22:30:58 <oerjan> and probably speeches.  not that i went.
22:31:11 <oerjan> in Oslo there'll also be waving royals.
22:31:35 <fizzie> Fun fact: molybdenum mines (at least the one I know of) produce as byproduct lots of white(ish) sand.
22:31:36 <shachaf> oerjan: happy Napoleon crowned Emperor, 1804 day
22:31:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:32:04 <molum> shachaf: Hmm? I don't, AFAIK
22:32:12 <shachaf> Well, you changed it just now.
22:32:17 <shachaf> And you also changed to hive and back.
22:32:24 <molum> Unless I change to a nick, and then back, in which case it's probably a joke in another channel
22:32:28 <molum> hive being one such one
22:32:48 <shachaf> fizzie: 10% of all car rentals happen today?
22:33:52 <oerjan> shachaf: you're a few months off hth
22:34:08 <shachaf> off what
22:34:16 <fizzie> No, just 10% of all car rentals. No particular verb.
22:34:21 <oerjan> Napoleon's crowning anniversary.
22:34:30 <oerjan> it was 2nd December.
22:35:10 <fizzie> https://googledrive.com/host/0B4J9OAzXNfZAelk5ZHdwZHlwWWM <- molybdenum mine byproduct sand pit. Or so I've been told.
22:35:14 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:35:20 <shachaf> oerjan: hm, perhaps
22:35:54 <shachaf> oerjan: ok, happy Nauru constitution day hth
22:36:42 <molum> fizzie: hmm, interesting
22:36:56 <molum> that looks quite pretty
22:37:09 <fizzie> shachaf: Happy U.S. Department of Energy declassifies documents showing world's largest mercury pollution event in Oak Ridge, Tennessee (ultimately found to be 4.2 million pounds) day.
22:37:10 <oerjan> shachaf: the _actual_ king involved was danish prince Christian Frederik, who only kept the throne for about 5 months.  that part didn't stick.
22:37:43 <oerjan> (he inherited denmark later, though.)
22:37:48 <shachaf> fizzie: what's happy about that
22:37:55 <shachaf> i guess declassifying documents is good
22:38:03 <fizzie> shachaf: Well, it wasn't 5.2 million pounds.
22:40:13 <shachaf> It was pretty close, though.
22:40:38 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
22:40:56 <shachaf> oerjan: wait, napoleon's emperor thing started on may 18 anyway
22:41:07 <oerjan> shachaf: the thing we are celebrating was an attempt at norwegian independence (but keeping the same royal dynasty), which failed.  and then somehow became the basis for gradually getting actual independence, 91 years later.
22:41:09 <hppavilion[1]> Could there be a quaternionic 4D mandelbrot set? One which, of course, you can slice and browse?
22:41:25 <shachaf> isn't it odd how some countries don't have independence day
22:41:59 <oerjan> we do have an independence day, but it's not very much celebrated.
22:42:15 <oerjan> i think it may be an official flag day.
22:42:54 <oerjan> yep, 7th June
22:43:13 <shachaf> fizzie: oh, you were using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_17
22:43:15 <shachaf> good thinking
22:43:43 <b_jonas> oerjan: which independence day? the one when Széchenyi suicided, or the one after the first world war?
22:44:50 <oerjan> b_jonas: the one when we left Sweden behind.  the one after the second world war is liberation day, which is May 8, and is at least somewhat celebrated.
22:45:33 <oerjan> norway stayed neutral in WWI.
22:45:44 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah
22:46:44 <oerjan> the one after WW2 isn't called independence day because presumably no one considered the nazi government to have been legal in the first place.
22:47:01 <oerjan> (well, no one who counts.)
22:48:58 <shachaf> fizzie: 4.2 million pounds is over 6 million USD
22:49:11 <shachaf> presumably it was a lot more at the time
22:54:24 <oerjan> <int-e> he'll feel compelled to remove the inital space and add a period at the end <-- you forgot the capital tdnh
22:55:31 <shachaf> `sedlast s.A
22:55:33 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/sedlast: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/sedlast: cannot execute: Permission denied
22:55:44 <shachaf> `` chmod +x bin/sedlast
22:55:48 <shachaf> but now i can't use it anymore
22:55:51 <HackEgo> No output.
22:55:54 <shachaf> this was a clever prank
22:56:51 <oerjan> sedsecondtolast hth
22:57:08 <shachaf> if i made that program, i'd need sedthirdtolast tdnh
22:58:14 <shachaf> `` sed -i s.A wisdom/'algebraic chess notation'
22:58:20 <HackEgo> No output.
23:00:31 <oerjan> good show
23:01:51 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
23:01:57 <hppavilion[1]> Multibrot set with complex powers?
23:02:21 <oerjan> multibrot?
23:03:06 <b_jonas> `wisdom
23:03:12 <HackEgo> emac//emacs is the weird brother of nano.
23:03:15 <b_jonas> `? MVS
23:03:17 <HackEgo> MVS? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:03:22 <b_jonas> `? VMS
23:03:23 <HackEgo> VMS? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:03:24 <b_jonas> `? MVC
23:03:26 <HackEgo> MVC? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:03:32 <oerjan> `? emacs
23:03:33 <shachaf> itym MCV hth
23:03:35 <HackEgo> emacs is the weird brother of nano.
23:03:47 <shachaf> oerjan: careful, you're supposed to be retired
23:04:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Mandelbrot with a number other than 2 (Z=Z^2+c)
23:04:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: there's a sense in which they all look pretty much like the usual one, up close.
23:04:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes
23:05:02 <oerjan> for the same reason that the usual mandelbrot contains many almost copies of itself.
23:05:03 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Specifically, for multibrot n, it's like n-1 mandelbrot sets squished together
23:05:07 <hppavilion[1]> Frankly, they creep me out
23:05:18 <shachaf> b_jonas: MCV = Mobile Construction Vehicle hth
23:05:38 <shachaf> multibrot 2 is like 1 mandelbrot set squished together
23:05:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, correct
23:05:58 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I mean, I guess
23:06:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Wikipedia even talks about things like multibrot 2.3 (where that analogy breaks down), but there is no mention of multibrot i or 2+i
23:06:56 <oerjan> multibrot 1, though...
23:07:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I think it's just a circle or something
23:07:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Wait...
23:07:40 <hppavilion[1]> Z = Z^0+c...
23:07:50 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: part of the problem is that once you use non-integers, everything becomes multivalued.
23:08:00 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, nothing is in multibrot 1
23:08:04 <oerjan> or alternatively, gets ugly branch cuts.
23:08:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Because n^0 = 1, and 1+1+1+1+...+1+c diverges for all c
23:08:45 * hppavilion[1] feels clever
23:08:54 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um that's multibrot 0.
23:09:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: No, multibrot 0 has power -1 by my completely stupid definition 
23:09:31 <oerjan> oh.
23:09:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Multibrot n has power n-1
23:09:39 <b_jonas> Is there a bebrot then?
23:09:54 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But yes, it would be 0 if you use a good definition (where mandelbrot is multibrot 2)
23:10:11 <hppavilion[1]> (mandel=2*multi)
23:10:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: hm then i'm not sure whether shachaf got that or not.
23:10:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Wait
23:10:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Hypermandelbrot
23:10:30 <shachaf> oerjan: got what
23:10:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: anyway, i disagree with your analysis.  multibrot 1 gives 1+c each step.
23:10:57 <shachaf> i know mandelbrot is multibrot 2
23:11:09 <oerjan> no added terms.
23:11:10 <shachaf> multibrot 1 diverges everywhere except 0
23:11:12 <shachaf> it all works
23:11:15 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, right, shit
23:11:20 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Knew I was doing something wrong
23:11:22 <oerjan> shachaf: no, it's multibrot 1.
23:11:32 <oerjan> see above.
23:11:36 <shachaf> oh
23:11:47 <hppavilion[1]> c is in hyperbrot n if Z = Z[n]2+c diverges
23:11:48 <shachaf> that's not consistent with what hppavilion[1] said, isn't it
23:11:55 <shachaf> 15:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Specifically, for multibrot n, it's like n-1 mandelbrot sets squished together
23:11:59 <shachaf> s/n't//
23:12:08 <shachaf> or s/not /in/
23:12:13 <b_jonas> `? off by one
23:12:14 <b_jonas> `? off by 1
23:12:23 -!- tromp_ has joined.
23:12:24 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: YOU ARE INCONSISTENT
23:12:27 <HackEgo> off by one? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:12:29 <HackEgo> off by 1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:12:29 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I AM
23:12:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: BUT ONLY ON WEEKDAYS
23:13:02 * hppavilion[1] feels clever again, but is more tentative this time
23:13:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Mandelbrot for the split-complexes or the duals?
23:13:48 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multibrot_set just says "multibrot with d = "
23:13:56 <shachaf> nothing about subtract 1 from the exponent
23:14:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, I know
23:14:08 <shachaf> ing
23:14:19 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I used a shitty definition of multibrot n that had a needless subtraction
23:14:41 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: also the talk page of that wikipedia page has a picture with a complex exponent hth
23:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Because it was convenient where multibrot n is n frankensteined mandelbrot sets
23:14:47 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, yay
23:14:57 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: ok but you changed your definition in mid-conversation without telling anyone about it
23:15:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I thought I did
23:15:09 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Whoops
23:15:22 <b_jonas> `? mandelbröt
23:15:25 <HackEgo> mandelbröt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:16:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:17:10 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But hyperbrot?
23:17:12 <oerjan> b_jonas: alas, i don't think there's an ö, even in german.
23:17:52 <oerjan> `? almond bread
23:17:55 <HackEgo> almond bread? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:19:41 <oerjan> `le/rn almond bread/Almond bread is a delicacy made from fractal dough.
23:19:46 <HackEgo> Learned «almond bread»
23:23:01 <b_jonas> or maybe it's mandelbrøt
23:23:18 <hppavilion[1]> "Modern Gender Theory, or the 'Mandelbrot Sex', is..."
23:29:11 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:37:51 <fizzie> The Swedish bread is bröd, if that's indeed what you were talking about.
23:39:12 <fizzie> I went to BLABAR (aka BLÅBÄR for diacritic-deficient people) the other day, a "Nordic concept store and cafe" hereabouts.
23:39:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:39:21 <fizzie> They have the typical Swedish incorrect cinnamon buns.
23:39:47 <fizzie> http://blabar.london/
23:41:44 -!- TellsTogo has joined.
23:42:48 <shachaf> What is a Swedish incorrect cinnamon bun?
23:45:28 <fizzie> shachaf: The one that the majority thinks is correct, actually.
23:45:42 <fizzie> https://krausnickitchen.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_4711.jpg
23:45:55 <shachaf> What is a correct cinnamon bun?
23:46:25 <fizzie> The Finnish variant, which is rolled the other way around.
23:46:26 <fizzie> http://www.fazershop.com/globalassets/inriver/resources/722c8801-0252-4c3b-9ee6-92bf0e552aca3.jpg
23:46:39 <fizzie> Now I want a cinnamon bun of either kind. :/
23:48:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:51:05 -!- molum has changed nick to ybden.