< 1463788838 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I KNOW < 1463788893 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what I failed at was history, not the arithmetic of the two calendars. < 1463788956 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1463789035 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of arithmetic, I still haven't convinced Isabelle that the laver tables as computed are actually shelves... < 1463789091 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I've come closer. I have proved the pasting modulo 2^(n-1) property. < 1463789448 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1463789523 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isabelle.in.tum.de/ ? < 1463789531 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1463789533 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the property... < 1463789538 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the property. < 1463789584 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pasting" is misleading... it's that dropping the top bit gives a homomorphism to a smaller shelf < 1463789607 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think of it as pasting 4 copies of the smaller table and then tweaking the top bits. < 1463789622 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right. also setting the top bit (or clearing, dependent on indexing) < 1463789662 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course all this is part of a huge induction step... I'm assuming that the smaller table is a shelf. < 1463789679 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok, remind me again, how do index things. it's impossible to talk about this without agreeing on that. < 1463789703 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how do you < 1463789754 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly the convention in john baez's blog post does not fit well with the bit twiddling :( < 1463789757 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the formalization I'm using 0..2^n - 1 as carrier and a |> 2^n - 1 = (a-1) mod 2^n ... so 2^n - 1 is the generator < 1463789780 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the "dual" version according the the laver.hs file I made < 1463789795 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1463789808 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0 is the left identity / right absorber. < 1463789821 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1463789842 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: in that case, \x -> 2^(n-1) |> x is that homomorphism you mention. < 1463789938 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... obviously an homomorphism if you have a shelf. < 1463789971 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok, here's my idea: don't do induction in such a big step. instead, prove from the fact that {0, ..., x} is a shelf that (a) x has period a power of 2 (b) {0, ..., x+1} is a shelf. < 1463790000 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) holds generally for any element of a shelf that _has_ a period. < 1463790098 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show (a), you can show that {x, x |> x, x |> x |> x, ..., } is isomorphic to a laver table. < 1463790159 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you also need that laver tables have size a power of 2 if they are shelves.) < 1463790179 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much of this you've already proved. < 1463790209 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, regular languages are exactly those that are recognized by a finite monoid. < 1463790256 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i can give you a proof for the power of 2 thing too) < 1463790274 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact that's the only part that needs something resembling "bit twiddling") < 1463790283 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not proved that non-powers of 2 don't work... as I currently see it, in order to prove that 2^n * o doesn't work, where o > 1 is an odd number, I first need the laver table of size 2^n. < 1463790372 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been following the topic, so I went to see the 'pedia summary, and it was exceedingly useful: "In mathematics, Laver tables -- are tables of numbers that have certain properties." < 1463790412 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 2^n |> x is the first row where things go wrong. < 1463790424 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of system was cheaper to build in the late 80's... a system with independent 8bit DRAM for CPU and GPU, or a system with 16bit DRAM shared between CPU and GPU? < 1463790487 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the main property is self-distributivity: a |> (b |> c) = (a |> b) |> (a |> c); an operation with that property is called a shelf. < 1463790545 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the 16bit system has technically fewer pins < 1463790551 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but needs a beefier processor < 1463790566 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm let me recall the important things. first, if y is an element of a laver table, then \x -> (y+1) |> x maps the period of 2^n-1 (i.e. the whole shelf) onto the period of y. < 1463790704 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover, z |> x maps to ((y+1) |> z) |> y, which means that this map _commutes_ with going to the next step in the periods. < 1463790718 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, < 1463790727 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* z |> (2^n-1) maps to < 1463790740 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "recognized by a finite monoid"? What do you mean by that? < 1463790765 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognizable_set < 1463790801 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1463790846 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: from this, you can deduce that ((y+1) |>) ^{-1} (x) has the _same_ size for all x in the image. which means that the period size of y must _divide_ 2^n. < 1463790892 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might be mixing haskell and math too much here < 1463791002 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: now let, ad absurdum, {0,...,x} be a minimal laver table such that x is _not_ a power of 2. it follows that all elements _other_ than x have period a power of 2. < 1463791069 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let 2^k be the largest such period. then 2^k divides x, and so x >= 3*2^k since it is not itself a power of 2. < 1463791125 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now consider y = 2^(k+1) < x. i claim that this element must have period 2^(k+1), a contradiction. < 1463791154 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1463791162 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y = 2^(k+1)-1 < 1463791194 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, bit of off-by-ones up in there. it's x+1 that's not a power of 2. < 1463791203 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463791259 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : Since 2^n |> x is the first row where things go wrong. <--- I see that we agree on that :P < 1463791269 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though not on the variable names) < 1463791295 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove that y has period 2^(k+1), it's enough to prove that z |> y = z-1 for 0 < z <= y. < 1463791397 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, perhaps I should have written "I have not formalized" instead of "I have not proved" earlier... < 1463791407 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but z |> y = (z-1) |> (z-1) |> ... |> (z-1) (y times), and by assumption z-1 has period a power of 2. < 1463791416 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so do you mean you've got all this? < 1463791469 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I have a pretty clear picture in my head how I could prove it... you're doing some things differently. < 1463791477 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait damn < 1463791505 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(y times)/(2^n-y times)/ < 1463791520 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :messing up the indexing again. < 1463791540 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1463791551 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x+1-y times) < 1463791577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463791599 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the period of z divides x+1 < 1463791621 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*z-1 < 1463791671 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thing is, i thought of all this using the indexing wikipedia uses. < 1463791672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463791718 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually makes more sense for expanding z |> y into a chain < 1463791732 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then it has length y) < 1463791829 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kinds of monoids recognize e.g. context-free languages? < 1463791830 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x+1-y = x+1-2^(k+1)+1 which is 1 more than a multiple of 2^k. < 1463791874 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so since all periods of the z involved have lengths dividing 2^k, z |> y = z-1. < 1463791952 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which proves that y has all of {0, ..., y} as its period set, of size 2^(k+1), which contradicts the assumption that 2^k is the maximal period of elements other than x. Q.E.D. and all laver tables must have period of 2 sizes. < 1463791984 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: was that clear? >:P < 1463791990 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1463791995 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice final typo < 1463792207 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :My feeling is that it really isn't that different from what I proposed... except that I intend to directly pick y as the largest power of 2 that divides x+1. < 1463792216 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1463792219 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*power < 1463792235 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, actually the next power of two) < 1463792245 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm i guess that might work too < 1463792484 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbbbb < 1463792520 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ccc? < 1463792578 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real trouble with Isabelle is that concepts like "period" have to be broken down into smaller parts... < 1463792611 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1463792699 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the minor detail that the periods are perfect... instead of having an initial part followed by a periodic one. < 1463792752 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(connected to the fact that each period starts at 0, because that's the only way to get a larger predecessor) < 1463792801 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :though perhaps you have a better angle on that; there's a bit there early on that I didn't follow completely. < 1463792938 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah the fact you must go through 0 seems essential. < 1463792945 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need sleep and I should get lambdabot into shape for ghc 8 on the weekend rather than working on shelves. < 1463792972 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried vaguely thinking about what would happen if a period was not perfect. < 1463793001 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems then there' no reason why they would be closed as shelves. < 1463793009 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as subshelves. < 1463793015 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1463793432 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much math today < 1463793459 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1463793480 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :copprello < 1463793695 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quinnichiwa < 1463793955 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mi salutas viojn. < 1463794015 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Quit: doom < 1463794555 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1463794884 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463795338 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who needs some friday night alcohols? < 1463795362 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go fast < 1463795578 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the main instruction set for my new computer design should include Muxcomp too. < 1463795599 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want the alchols < 1463795610 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's muxcomp < 1463795702 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Muxcomp < 1463795703 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why not? < 1463795757 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would probably be slow if all operations are muxcomp, unless perhaps it is used in microcodes) < 1463795940 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document I wrote now includes a comment about that, as well as many other changes and additions < 1463795941 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : how do you enter the 6 inputs to the operation? < 1463795944 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no thanks, i had a drink on tuesday < 1463796006 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't put in all of the details yet, that is just an idea so far. < 1463796020 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which drink < 1463796061 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : ok how about < 1463796064 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: cognac hth < 1463796115 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lea bit3, bit4*2, r0 < 1463796115 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as you may recall, it was constitution day) < 1463796115 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is among the cognacenti < 1463796144 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: indeed. i have a family anecdote to the effect i was an early fan < 1463796154 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 years old iirc) < 1463796155 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: What is that? Can you explain? < 1463796167 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cognacenti" could be a p. good pun < 1463796172 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta save that one up < 1463796206 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lea bit3, bit4*2, r0 < 1463796206 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lea bit2, r0*2, r0 < 1463796206 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lea bit1, r0*2, r0 < 1463796206 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lea bit0, r0*2, r0 < 1463796206 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shr lut, r0, r0 < 1463796207 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and r0, $1, r0 < 1463796284 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: combine all your conditionals into a bit addresss < 1463796299 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use bitshift to put the selected bit into bit 0 of result < 1463796310 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use AND to clear remaining top bits < 1463796341 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YouTube's designers found the previous system ineffective because the options to rate a video between two and four stars were rarely selected." < 1463796358 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: a rating system where you have to earn the right to use the top and bottom ranks < 1463796419 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(someone's probably tried it) < 1463796428 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463796431 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the system takes in your comments and computes how similar it is to troll comments < 1463796439 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is moon < 1463796451 0 :moonheart08!?@? NICK :moon_ < 1463796452 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: ...that's not very related... < 1463796458 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's not too similar and you have enough comments and ratings it lets you use double-thumbs-up and double-thumbs-down? < 1463796461 0 :moon_!?@? NICK :moonheart08 < 1463796464 0 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :Quit: diginet has quit! < 1463796480 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else do you compute people's ability to rate by machine? < 1463796535 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: sorry, i didn't mean a right, a meant a quota. the idea is that you _have_ to give non-extreme rankings most of the time. < 1463796556 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the rankings are forced to spread out more. < 1463796588 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there a way to change my nick on only *one* channel? < 1463796597 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonheart08: i don't think so. < 1463796601 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonheart08: IRC does not do that. < 1463796601 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1463796608 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1463796613 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : oh < 1463796628 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NICK command is for your connection to the server. You could make a second connection possibly though? < 1463796632 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a super bar that charges up when you give thumbs up or down < 1463796672 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it's charged all the way up you get to hitconfirm combo a thumbs up into a super thumbs up < 1463796680 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the unary XOR operation in INTERCAL can be used for Gray codes? < 1463796685 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, true < 1463796692 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1463796696 0 :moonheart08!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PART #esoteric : < 1463796699 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yeah maybe. < 1463796712 0 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463796731 0 :moon__!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463796737 0 :moon__!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1463796864 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm the unary xor is basically a cellular automaton on the bits as a ring, isn't it. < 1463796875 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the unaries are too. < 1463796880 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the other unaries < 1463796920 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes I think so. < 1463797456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463797658 0 :moon__!4c01498a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.73.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463797722 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463798445 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, b_jonas: What is your opinion on the various other ideas I have written there? < 1463798515 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463798598 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1463798664 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are the sprites displayed? < 1463798723 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the use of the sprite buffer that is filled up during the previous scanline rendering < 1463798752 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it know which sprites are active on the current scanline? < 1463798819 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463798836 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because those are the ones in the sprite buffer. It is placed into the sprite buffer if the Y position is correct. < 1463799015 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing to the sprite registers will affect the next scanline and not the current one, so your display program must take that into account. < 1463799061 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it have to read sprite x y etc from memory if it has sprite registers? < 1463799106 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sprite registers only tell it where to find it in the memory and what the current scroll position is. < 1463799231 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has memory reads of all the sprite data on every single scanline? < 1463799257 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it has to < 1463799360 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to fetch the sprite x y id etc if you have it in a register < 1463799505 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you would need a register for each sprite I would think < 1463799515 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1463799530 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on chip generation but eventually they had enough registers for that < 1463799533 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it would take up many of the instruction cycles available on each scan line < 1463799538 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially on snes etc < 1463799793 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The design I have seems that there is exactly enough clock cycles for each pixel to read everything necessary for playfield and for sprites) < 1463799859 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think of the stuff other than the video? < 1463799906 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is audio frequency in periods? < 1463799946 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't it be? That is what many computers did, I think? < 1463799983 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on chip generation < 1463800013 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're doing few channels of square waves then periods is simpler yes < 1463800041 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you start doing like 6 and 8 channels and FM synthesis and samples then frequency is simpler < 1463800238 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do anything with audio you would need to load a audio program into the audio processor, which would implement whatever you need. < 1463800403 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this require the audio cpu to busy write into the channels all the time? < 1463800485 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all the time, because there is a period and it only has to write once the period has expired. < 1463800552 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all the time < 1463800597 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't do anything longer than one sample or else channels will start glitching :o < 1463800621 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each channel has separate registers < 1463800667 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could also add data together and put into one channel. < 1463800671 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the cpu has to keep 4 channels filled all the time < 1463800723 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The audio processor runs independently from the main processor so it does not take cycles away from the main processor, because it has its own memory too. < 1463800723 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : that would be hard too since you have to mix all the channels in less than 1 sample every time < 1463800831 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have been able to do it in PC, which has only one channel and a slower clock rate. < 1463800853 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And this is together with graphics.) < 1463800872 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own design it is independent from graphics so it can clearly do more stuff. < 1463800967 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on PC they have a DMA channel < 1463801028 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can compute a whole 256 sample block, send it to the card and do all sorts of other stuff while the sound card slowly goes through it < 1463801041 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean on the original PC that had only PIT for sound < 1463801048 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you even get an interrupt to refill it when half the block is done < 1463801055 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : yes and it sucked < 1463801265 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it isn't very good that is why I did mine more better < 1463801377 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you find any mistake in the display program I wrote for imitating a PC text screen? < 1463801390 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463801918 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what think you think about the other stuff I wrote about keyboard, game control, and operating system? < 1463801948 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't read too much about those < 1463802586 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can read it < 1463803650 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1463803663 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd concentrate on the parts you can implement on an fpga first < 1463804173 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one way, although many of the things I had written about are separate from what would be done by FPGA < 1463804306 0 :MDude!?@? NICK :MDream < 1463805274 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463805373 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463805711 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463805807 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1463806405 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1463807056 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463807631 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463808293 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lewis Chessmen make me sad < 1463808764 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that? < 1463809120 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Wikipedia should make it clear < 1463809141 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RGB chess: A game of chess with > 16kk sides < 1463809729 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463809870 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-woavibkcbljvznjk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1463809908 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463809910 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 0-chess, white automatically wins < 1463809950 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In n-chess, you play normal chess, but upon capture, a game of [n-1]-chess is played to calculate success. White is the attacking piece, black is the defending piece. < 1463809963 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM. < 1463810168 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 has invented many Chess variants. < 1463810317 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Mine requires you to play chess to play chess. I think I win. < 1463810331 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also, there are infinitely many of them < 1463810551 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My god... omega-chess < 1463810626 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omega is an ordinal, but Chess has bishops, so cardinals seem more appropriate. < 1463810857 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Fair point < 1463812943 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463814485 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: what value of n should be the "default" initial match? < 1463814688 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: how about MWI-chess: when a capture is made, a new game with identical pre-move state is spun off in which the capture never happened and the capturing player loses a turn. all spun-off games must be played simultaneously, though each forked game adds to the game clock half the length of time that was added for its parent < 1463814750 0 :Cale!~Cale@2607:fea8:9840:1d5:60da:8437:a192:450e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463814765 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the winner is the player that won the majority of games by the time all games are completed or one player's time expires. (said player obviously loses all unfinished games if time expires) < 1463814783 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :analog paper chess... the pieces are lines on a sheet of paper... movement is prolongating the lines... capture is crossing the other player's line < 1463814811 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463814815 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the lines be rotated? < 1463814867 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like...this doesnt really sound like chess < 1463814899 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless pieces still move like pieces and the "lines" are their loci of past movements < 1463815513 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463817504 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463818452 0 :MDream!~MDude@pa-67-234-67-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463818538 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bpuxwmnwdsiwjbju QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1463819143 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463819403 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463820043 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:b47c:89c1:43bf:187a JOIN :#esoteric < 1463820599 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:e92f:ad76:2f7f:6e5c JOIN :#esoteric < 1463825366 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463825532 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463825613 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1463825835 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463825908 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463826801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463829849 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:b47c:89c1:43bf:187a QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463830021 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463830263 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463830632 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463833606 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463833691 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :9600, 8N1. < 1463833709 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a serial port configuration? < 1463833720 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else could it possibly be? < 1463833730 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just using the channel as a convenient note pad.) < 1463833771 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you're going to prune rare words from models, why leave placeholders, instead of removing the nodes entirely? < 1463833796 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, better, work out the *type* of word and substitute it for a random word that sort-of-fits. < 1463833867 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like for example: The megalomaniac with his butler tried to take over the world, becomes: The dynamic with his apple tried to make over the rabbit. < 1463833877 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, I'm just using a set of one type as the list of types I handle. < 1463833885 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463833900 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets out his pocket dictionary and adds an "adj." meaning to "fnord" < 1463833901 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1463833917 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :More realistically, that'd be a lot of effort. < 1463834011 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs realism? :) < 1463834012 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohi ais < 1463834045 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it probably would be quite a bit of work to identify the word being removed... < 1463834094 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it's just a matter of picking a word from a list. < 1463834108 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this logic implemented in the Befunge layer? < 1463834111 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1463834120 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The synthesis part, that is. Not the model building. < 1463834142 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, where do rare words get pruned? < 1463834143 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1463834226 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That's* during model building, of course. But even something as simple as "have models contain a set of tokens that can be replaced by a word randomly selected from a model-specific list" -- which would happen at synthesis time -- isn't all that trivial to implement in Befunge. Especially if you'd need to edit existing code to do it. < 1463834238 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The babbling is lines 125-161 of https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 < 1463834239 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes. just like yo fnord agua is another way to do that < 1463834340 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why not choose the random words during model building? < 1463834382 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all random anyway, so I doubt anyone would notice. < 1463834389 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I guess. But then it's always the same word. < 1463834399 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do notice patterns in some of the smaller-corpus models. < 1463834401 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1463834402 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1463834409 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can that sword alone stop it? < 1463834409 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1463834409 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1463834409 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! < 1463834434 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope." keeps being repeated a lot. < 1463834476 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but on smaller corpus models you might not want to remove rare words. < 1463834492 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's true. I haven't done it for those. < 1463834520 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on smaller corpus models you aren't removing words anyway, and on larger corpus models the space is big enough that it wouldn't be as noticable. < 1463834545 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep that in mind if I ever can bother to retrain the irc style. < 1463834579 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how long the IRC style took in CPU time, given the history of #esoteric < 1463834612 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote elf corpses < 1463834614 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :111) ais523: elf corpses are not considered expensive health food. but the most expensive. < 1463834700 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a larger fraction of it is ##scheme. < 1463834755 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...elf corpses? < 1463834759 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1463834759 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1463834767 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...does this have anything to do with NH4? < 1463834769 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Your quote-file quotes are so good, why can't you be brilliant like that all the time? < 1463834770 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nalfeshnee: not only by birth but also by law", ector said facing arthur. the leprechaun's two great loves are tobacco and whiskey, and at the blasphemy. he was such a way that it becomes porous to inert material. < 1463834805 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I didn't know that about leprechauns. < 1463834805 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: issek: now issek of the weaker forms of demon. it is ready to be a sasquatch inn near the town level of the wizard and his fellow titans were ousted from mount olympus. ( the jungle still. < 1463835315 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote stop programming < 1463835317 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1164) boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program. < 1463835359 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote serious proportions < 1463835362 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1181) kmc: madam president, i have taken on serious proportions. < 1463835436 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1463835436 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1463835453 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What is your stance on the upcoming UK referendum on Brexit? < 1463835455 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the gradual and controlled implementation of the budget, but i do miss one aspect, namely communication with the public and the slovak government. criticism is clearly not a democratic country. this therefore means that we can create a job with a smaller management or perhaps with a view to guaranteeing and expressing the higher interest and security of payments requires products to be tested, we must take account of th < 1463835483 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: But are you for or against it? < 1463835485 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: madam president, commissioner, i hope that we can begin programming and implementing aid, that we are only recommending the level of employment in some of the problems we are now ready to establish technical requirements, specifically amendments nos 9 and 10. they all aim to exclude certain sectors from their advantages, consumer protection and especially its rapporteur, mrs marinucci, have done, then i am quite aware t < 1463835500 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typical politician, never says anything straight. < 1463835555 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1463835700 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why say things people can understand... < 1463835706 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you can say things people can't understand? < 1463835727 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get money for doing so? < 1463836068 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! It was 9600 8N1. < 1463836104 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Proper settings for getting a serial console out of a SparcStation 5.) < 1463836167 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/gMNa doesn't look too good, though. < 1463836260 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 sparcstations < 1463836274 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have ss4, ss5, sparcserver5, ss10, ss20 < 1463836293 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with reversed gender serial connectors < 1463836335 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I had to get a gender changer to get at the serial console. < 1463836353 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have tons of db25->rj45 converters < 1463836367 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure this'll make lovely out of context reading. < 1463836378 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with them, we can use those with blue cisco cables < 1463836390 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also we have tons of 13w3 sun crts < 1463836403 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 13w3 cables, 13w3->dsub15 adaptors < 1463836406 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 13w3-to-4xBNC monitor cable that I used to use, but no monitors that'd take those in, since I got rid of the CRT that did. < 1463836412 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we either < 1463836419 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :4xbnc thing rules! < 1463836439 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also have bnc crts < 1463836441 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you *get* all of those? < 1463836479 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Hungary, everywhere. We have a huge collection of ibm pc, 286, 186, 386, 486, risc, vax, ppc, sparc, ultrasparc, alpha etc vintage hardware < 1463836489 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts counted < 1463836494 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cca 20-25 cubicmeters < 1463836499 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweaking travis configurations is so annoying. < 1463836512 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have this SGI Indy with its associated 13w3 CRT monitor, but it doesn't want to play along with the SS5. < 1463836514 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweak... push... build... look at error... repeat < 1463836539 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lamma, 13w3 connectors can cause damage with inappropriate device < 1463836548 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are at least 4 13w3 pinout standards < 1463836550 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to get rid of all this stuff, that's why I'm trying to get it to boot, so I could properly wipe the drives. (Got nothing else that speaks SCSI.) < 1463836554 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgi, apple, sun, next, ibm < 1463836592 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like standards < 1463836601 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that sounds like not-standards < 1463836608 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay gooby, lets modify: "standarses" < 1463836658 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, become ontopic < 1463836678 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am goint to publish proofs of turing-completeness of some ancient languages, shell envs < 1463836691 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily unixish shells < 1463836712 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we organize coding golf tournaments at our employer < 1463836731 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the prizegiving ceremony, a presentation will be performed < 1463836746 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and selected results will be provided. for example: here < 1463837751 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463837964 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud. < 1463837964 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1463838009 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-baud < 1463838009 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1463838017 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-baud 9600 < 1463838017 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1463838145 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamellomanj! < 1463838206 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily! < 1463838522 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463838937 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujwvydzlhgbqcofl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463839048 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Akaibu < 1463839062 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08Akaibu: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02EFnet 06or 13DALnet.) < 1463839152 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoooooah < 1463839155 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colooooouuuuurs! < 1463839156 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rules < 1463839168 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins maniacally. < 1463839361 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLOPic! < 1463839377 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime APic < 1463839378 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for APic is Sat May 21 15:02:57 2016 < 1463839389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1463839427 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo yo yo < 1463839447 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally arrived in one of the good Realtimes. ;))) < 1463839457 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, build passed. < 1463839481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463839511 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah < 1463839579 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello. you built APic? < 1463839592 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah < 1463839596 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myself < 1463839598 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my Room < 1463839599 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1463839600 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally < 1463839602 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: where you at now? how many liters of coffee in your bloodstream? < 1463839607 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, travis built the git version of lambdabot for two ghc versions (7.8.4 and 7.10.3). < 1463839614 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Munich Obergiesing Bahnhof, none at all. < 1463839617 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nice! < 1463839619 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates Coffee < 1463839625 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP*! < 1463839626 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad Experiences with that one. < 1463839632 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*g* < 1463839635 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :after way too many failures < 1463839659 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mapoles APic for his penitence < 1463839675 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one was not putting happy on the path when I switched to getting it from hvr's repository... < 1463839683 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Penis? < 1463839693 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :No definitions found for "mapole", perhaps you mean: < 1463839693 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcide: Maple Maypole < 1463839693 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :wn: maple maypole < 1463839693 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldoc: maple < 1463839696 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, the Sparc netboot thing is annoying. It sends a RARP query, then tries to fetch the image from whatever server responds over TFTP using the path /[ip in hex].[architecture]. < 1463839700 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mapole < 1463839702 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. < 1463839800 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1463839801 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1463839808 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada rocks < 1463839812 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had a Great-Aunt there < 1463839817 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :She passed away a few Years ago. < 1463839923 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fizziello. you work on a sparc? < 1463840001 0 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1463840015 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1463840020 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION on a Biketrip < 1463840025 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will meet my two best Friends. < 1463840026 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :cul8r < 1463840027 0 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :B-) < 1463840078 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :biking is fun! < 1463840111 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes biking in the middle of the night, when it's all quiet and the weather's just right < 1463840367 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I'm trying to clean up the disks on a Sparc so that I could get rid of it, and while it does boot from the disks, I have no idea what sort of passwords it might accept (been a while), so I need to boot it from *somewhere* to get at it. < 1463840386 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network seems like the only feasible choice, since I don't have anything else to stick the disks to. < 1463840480 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure what I should have it boot from the network. I have OpenBSD on it, but the OpenBSD installation diskless boot involves setting up the installation root fs to be served over NFS, and that's even more of a hassle. < 1463840561 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind easier ideas. Something I could do from the OpenPROM boot prompt would be great. < 1463840639 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463840673 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I don't think that thing really has any filesystem drivers.) < 1463840944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463841471 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, re biking: best biking is the one from Assembly to home. It's usually around 3-4am-ish, Assembly is in August which means it's warm (but not too) and light out, and for some reason there's always a bunch of rabbits on the way. < 1463841505 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This system has relatively little free memory, so it will enter low memory mode. Among other things, this means that this program will proceed in English. You should set up swap space as soon as possible." < 1463841515 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, 32 megs just doesn't go as far as it used to. < 1463841694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463841720 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be applied to just about any unit of memory < 1463841726 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :64k doesn't go as far as it used to < 1463841776 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like as if the OS expands to take up anything available < 1463841821 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the programs finish the rest < 1463841821 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I booted the debian etch installer (at least it's got an initrd attached), but I don't know how to provide boot parameters, so it booted to the menu-based installer, which keeps asking all kinds of irrelevant questions. < 1463841843 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your keyboard have ctrl and alt? < 1463841854 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and do you have virtual terminals?) < 1463841857 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a serial console. < 1463841862 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah, you're doomed < 1463841875 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives fizzie a packed lunch < 1463841881 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, you'll need it for the labyrinth < 1463841892 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also takes a second or two to move from one screen to another, because it prints a screenful of spaces at 9600 bps. < 1463841911 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'll reach the menu eventually, but the expert mode would've made this a lot nicer. < 1463841951 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's only a second or two < 1463842019 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, after failing to download anything I got the "go back" option, which went to the menu and let me start a shell. < 1463842071 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :...of course there are no disk devices... < 1463842081 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that part of the installer comes later. < 1463842142 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it'll want to download *that* from the network. Bah. < 1463842173 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I do have some good news - I just got word from the labyrinth guards, the minotaur's busy dealing with an author who wrote fanfic of Greek Mythology, so you'll be ok. < 1463842210 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't lose the thread < 1463842226 0 :feliks!cQf3WA84uU@unaffiliated/feliks QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463842343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463842495 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave it some networks, and it downloaded *something*. Now I'll need to manage to break out back to the menu at some point somehow. < 1463842554 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you type "exit", you'll probably either find yourself in the menu or find yourself in a meta-labyrinth. Have fun! < 1463842666 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no place to type anything anywhere, it's all just selecting choices. < 1463842708 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so you're already in a menu? < 1463842712 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It boots into a menu. < 1463842731 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you said you started a shell... < 1463842741 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I had to go back to the menu to get anything done. < 1463842752 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't have any block devices except the ramdisk. < 1463842758 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So which menu do you want to break out to? < 1463842791 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean. I went back to the Debian installer menu, to follow along a few more steps (download installer components from the network). < 1463842801 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( The S-hell... a text adventure by #esoteric. ) < 1463842813 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm at the "Detecting disks and all other hardware" step, which I'd rather like to pass. < 1463842816 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I started work on an esolang-based text adventure years ago < 1463842825 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But after that a shell would be nice. < 1463842839 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a positive sign, the external HD box is booting up the drives, so I think it indeed is enumerating drives. < 1463842871 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I didn't get very far; it has one brainfuck-based puzzle, one SMETANA-based puzzle, and one INTERCAL-based puzzle < 1463842875 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:e92f:ad76:2f7f:6e5c QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463842880 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of them do anything when you complete them because I didn't write any more < 1463842885 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and all three are accessible from the start) < 1463842907 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If there are no problems, the user will never see the installer menu, but will simply answer questions for each component in turn." < 1463842913 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, but I'd like the menu. < 1463842940 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[If you're installing over a serial console], there is also an Execute a Shell item on the main menu that can be used to start a shell." < 1463842948 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice as well, but you just said I won't see the menu. < 1463842955 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably a trick to it. < 1463842995 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Power users may be more comfortable with a menu-driven interface, where each step is controlled by the user rather than the installer performing each step automatically in sequence. To use the installer in a manual, menu-driven way, add the boot argument priority=medium." < 1463843010 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:b47c:89c1:43bf:187a JOIN :#esoteric < 1463843015 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a nice trick, but I don't know how to specify boot arguments when doing the netboot thing. < 1463843054 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a moot point, anyway, in that it seems to have gotten stuck at 2% of the "Detecting disks and other hardware" pass. < 1463843074 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "oading [sic] module 'esp' for 'ESP SCSI'..." < 1463843089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463843121 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :goading? < 1463843124 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the installer should just accept ^C... < 1463843135 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make things simpler < 1463843171 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And why on earth would "priority=medium" have anything to do with how the installer acts?) < 1463843173 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it ran out of memory and killed something. There was a lot of components it was loading. < 1463843209 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did caution me to enable some swap "as soon as possible", but that's a bit hard before loading the SCSI drivers. < 1463843221 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I need an older Debian. < 1463843244 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, etch is what, 2007? That's pretty modern. < 1463843277 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you know the module name now. < 1463843348 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. "Puppy Linux is designed to be extremely lightweight. When installed to a USB flash drive, it consumes only 100 MB of space — 256 MB if you want the version with a full OpenOffice office suite instead of more lightweight office applications. Puppy Linux is loaded to your computer’s RAM [...]" < 1463843372 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"100 MB" is lightweight these days? < 1463843416 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "old computers" have 1 GB of RAM these days. < 1463843429 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:b47c:89c1:43bf:187a QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463843506 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they were really trying to be minimal, they'd just use text mode... < 1463843519 0 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463843526 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(old laptops may go as low as 512 MB I suppose) < 1463843536 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO 1.44MB should be the standard for incredibly minimal OSes < 1463843609 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From starting the installation to booting our new Linux system, only 30 minutes had passed - very impressive" < 1463843624 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs < 1463843625 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody wants to tell me how to specify kernel boot command line to this thing. < 1463843642 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/archives-best-distros-2000 ) < 1463843652 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except this one page which says you use a "bootparamd" server to do it. < 1463843657 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...seriously? < 1463843664 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://znark.com/tech/netbootsparc.html < 1463843709 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if that's just for Solaris boot params, I *assume* it's up to the boot loader (the thing you load over TFTP) to do that part. < 1463843781 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1463843793 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you were booting from the network, you would append the string onto the end of the boot net command in OBP --" can it really be that easy? < 1463843798 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to try, I guess. < 1463843826 0 :feliks!hCLCsjB2Y8@unaffiliated/feliks JOIN :#esoteric < 1463843920 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok boot net debconf/priority=medium DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text < 1463843921 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boot device: /iommu/sbus/ledma@5,8400010/le@5,8c00000 File and args: debconf/priority=medium DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text < 1463843926 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, would you look at that. < 1463843957 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463844005 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tettinegc huop[ f7i]l:e sUynsitmepml,e mpelnetaesde SwPaAiRtC .s.y.s em call 188" < 1463844010 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice interleaved output there. < 1463844031 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: can you decipher that? < 1463844031 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: mr president, i hope, ladies and gentlemen, finally the summit concluded with a result that clearly improves on the proposals we made back in 1989. associated with this, i believe that the best way of undertaking such work. < 1463844062 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cannot load frontend module /usr/lib/cdebconf/frontend/text.so" I think the installer manual lied to me about existing frontends. < 1463844093 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-bfoptdavxcqwdjfe QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463844156 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hhdvqhgsbaqabycm JOIN :#esoteric < 1463844184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463844225 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I don't think fizzie's sparc is quite that old. < 1463844225 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: mr president, the election of the new millennium have been marked by a whole series of provisions which are obviously aberrations in this case we really did make a very clear message to the rest of the year, so that we can accept in principle amendments nos 34 and 43, which are our own and genuinely try to achieve a balanced text, which has just been murdered in pristina. < 1463844523 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the year should be 1994 or later for a sparcstation 5) < 1463844571 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Hard to say, the IDPROM "date of manufacture" field had turned into all-bits-10101010 just like everything else in it. < 1463844593 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1463844617 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARCstation#.22Pizzabox.22_systems < 1463844629 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's technically Tue Aug 19 21:50:34 UTC 1924 but that's a bit dubious. < 1463844665 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1463844669 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! < 1463844673 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. The Sarge installer fails to download any files. < 1463844688 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's screaming at you in hexadecimal) < 1463844757 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok .idprom < 1463844761 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Format/Type: aa aa Ethernet: aa aa aa aa aa aa Date: aa aa aa aa < 1463844765 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial: aa aa aa Checksum: aa Reserved: aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa < 1463844768 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That got a bit of extra spaces, I think. < 1463844944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463846267 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463846270 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1463846272 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all < 1463846307 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anybody alive? < 1463846318 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone advice info about kundalini yoga? < 1463846426 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome dmberez < 1463846429 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmberez: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1463846435 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ I think you might be looking for one of those other channels. < 1463846452 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1463846554 0 :dmberez!~smuxi@77.40.116.120 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463846603 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1463846672 0 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463847152 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a channel for programming language design and theory? < 1463848149 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1463850871 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Progress: by turning off the external SCSI drive enclosure, and starting a shell *before* the "detect disks" step, I managed to -- by manually loading scsi_mod, esp and scsi_sd -- read bytes off the internal disk. Now I just need to figure out the external enclosure. < 1463851032 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzaxizemjaejeaks JOIN :#esoteric < 1463851934 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: REMOVABLE CHICKEN < 1463853830 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, news from my CaC server: "ext2fs_open2: Bad magic number in super-block" < 1463854243 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one HackEgo is on seems to have been booted. < 1463854261 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that means the wiki bridge is down. < 1463854296 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, let's see whether a new VM does the trick :P < 1463854343 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only slightly suspicious message on there so far is [ 2591.369655] hrtimer: interrupt took 49110777 ns < 1463854456 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/YOIK is what I had. < 1463854480 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did not save any complete log. I'm still regarding the whole thing as a toy.) < 1463855001 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny that they set up /etc/apt/sources.list to fetch debian stable, but security updates for wheezy? < 1463855007 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. no, squeeze. < 1463855053 0 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463855137 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. There's insmod, but no rmmod. < 1463855160 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to kernel california < 1463855168 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1463855176 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1463855184 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no sys... hey, there is a sysfs. < 1463855193 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can maybe do the normal SCSI bus rescan. < 1463855215 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rmmod is tricky... :) < 1463855223 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to release resources etc. < 1463855271 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo '- - -' > /sys/class/scsi_host/host1/scan < 1463855273 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel panic - not syncing: Aiee, killing interrupt handler! < 1463855281 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not maybe so good. < 1463855321 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we are all prisoners here of our own /dev < 1463855351 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what exactly happened, it worked fine (based on command-line messages) when OpenBSD was driving it. < 1463855428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname -a < 1463855432 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1463855820 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any examples where a programming language is simply a spelling reform of a previous one? < 1463855862 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :J and APL hth < 1463855871 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I wouldn't know, although I have seen similar things before < 1463855874 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking, what if I made a new language that is simply APL but --- < 1463855878 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... < 1463855880 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1463855883 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(J is not quite APL actually, I think?) < 1463855913 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL can accept English and Latin keywords, originally it was English < 1463855922 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it every time I come up with an awesome idea it's already been done < 1463855991 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is call "Bob Profit Principle" is what I have heard it call when, if you think of something, probably someone else has already done too. < 1463856028 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day, your awesome ideas will get their comeuppance < 1463856065 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The only Google search results for that phrase are IRC logs of you talking about it. < 1463856074 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1463856079 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, do you like some of my ideas? (I have had many kind of ideas too (but so has other people of course); some may be bad but some is good thing too, I think) < 1463856092 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And in some cases time must tell if it is good or not) < 1463856118 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You cannot find everything on Google < 1463856138 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: blasphemer alert hth < 1463856160 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the incompatibility between msvc and gcc is basically spelling stuff < 1463856162 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think some of your ideas are completely new. < 1463856210 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably some are, at least. < 1463856234 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yes, although you can use #define and #ifdef and #include in a C code. < 1463856268 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sucks but yeah < 1463856282 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the 64bit 'long' debacle < 1463856302 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why is it called that? < 1463856313 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once upon a time they had long < 1463856319 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't think long was long enough < 1463856322 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they had long long < 1463856325 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and long long long < 1463856327 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is it some sort of market efficiency thing? < 1463856334 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you mean Bob Profit Principle? I think it is someone's name. < 1463856344 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and long long long long long long long long < 1463856354 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and long uint512_t, and... < 1463856356 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone is named Bob Profit? < 1463856367 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think "Profit" is his name. < 1463856385 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you sure this isn't a spam email < 1463856400 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's down to the fact that win32 used to be, well, win16 < 1463856417 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't an email message < 1463856437 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means int was 16 bits when they came up with a lot of win32 interfaces, so they used long for 32 bits < 1463856467 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: is this why Windows API writers have a love affair with calling 32 bits a DWORD < 1463856477 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1463856497 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463856506 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's like how every library has its < 1463856515 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLUINT32 GLINT16 etc < 1463856517 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : for life < 1463856531 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, this was way before stdint.h < 1463856540 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it is called DWORD in the x86 instruction set? < 1463856567 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes dword is the traditional name for 32bit integers in the x86 world < 1463856583 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the assembler guys < 1463856593 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, the assemblers call it that - the assembly is descended from realmode assembly, which ofc had 16-bit as WORD... < 1463856606 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has a different evolutionary path < 1463856652 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes from like unix servers and SPARC workstations and stuff like that, so it was more or less always 32 bits < 1463856660 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it uses int < 1463856691 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLite has its own 64-bit type, but it doesn't have its own types for 32-bits and 16-bits (for 32-bits it just uses int, for a pointer to a string of 16-bit characters it uses void*) < 1463856727 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, I think mixed mode architectures only really exist because of 1. "compact instructions" (for ARM Thumb), and 2. proprietary software (because otherwise they could just introduce a new mode and have everybody recompile) < 1463856746 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could upgrade long to 64 bits without breaking a metric ton worth of grody windows.h win-16 inherited interfaces < 1463856804 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj : it's just the fate of long-living architectures < 1463856806 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: But some programs may be written in assembly language, so it can apply even to free software in some cases. < 1463856827 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 16 bits and eventually it gets bumped up to 32 bits, and then to 64 bits < 1463856832 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ZSNES < 1463856850 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remeber looking at the source for that and being like NOPE < 1463856864 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did zsnes ever even run in real mode? < 1463856866 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But also in some cases you can easily emulate older instruction sets) < 1463856871 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it was always 32bits < 1463856890 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: that's not the point, it's the fact it won't be going anywhere anytime soon in terms of porting < 1463856895 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but how much work would it take to change it to 64 bit? < 1463856899 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original 8088 instruction set look OK to me but they made an extreme mess of the new one. < 1463856918 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : why would you port zsnes to 64 bit? < 1463856936 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it addresses more than 4gb of data < 1463856944 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: uh... i guess you woldn't do that < 1463856977 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if x86-64 hadn't been backward compatible you would have to < 1463856988 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463856999 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-120-181.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you'd port it for more registers and rip-relative addressing, or e.g. because it's easier to make a native 64-bit package than to rely on multilib and 32-bit compat < 1463857025 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : if x86-64 wasn't backwards compatible then it wouldn't be x86 < 1463857047 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Deadfish 214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47056 5* 03M654 5* (+987) 10Created page with "Deadfish 2 is a superset of [[Deadfish]] made by [[User:M654|m654]]. As well as an accumulator, Deadfish 2 has a string which can be set using the input command. == Commands..." < 1463857053 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess it would be kinda silly too since you could come up with a cleaner architecture if you're starting anew < 1463857091 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-120-181.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually tried that, but what they came up with was Itanium :P < 1463857104 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itanium was worse than x86 < 1463857185 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel tried to start new architectures that could potentially replace x86 4 times... and only one of them was actually better than x86 (i960) < 1463857217 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other instruction set, invented by Knuth, is MMIX < 1463857249 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX has the advantage of being 100% patent free. < 1463857300 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzaxizemjaejeaks PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmix has the disadvantage of not actually being a serious instruction set < 1463857327 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if itanium was just a MIPS ripoff like what everybody else did, it wouldn't have shipped late, and it wouldn't have been slower than pa-risc2 and pentium3 and athlon, and even if the first generation of chips sucked they could've actually improved them much more easily < 1463857424 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they tried to be smart < 1463857479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still love how x86 chips these days are RISC running dynamically translated bytecode < 1463857510 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : it depends on what you call 'RISC' < 1463857540 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes and that is stupid in my opinion < 1463857560 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not stupid, imho that's why they have the fastest CPUs < 1463857564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, can't really see any other way for things to work out < 1463857569 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imho the real frontier is that CISC has load+compute operations < 1463857581 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which x86 has but none of the RISCs do < 1463857604 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent x86 designs benefit from this < 1463857617 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 2 operations for the price of 1 < 1463857641 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how the athlon was the same speed as the 4-way-ooo Dec Alpha < 1463857661 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the dec alpha was 4 IPC and then athlon was 3 IPC < 1463857708 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the athlon only had 8 logical registers instead of 32 and it didn't have opcodes with different destination than source < 1463857747 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advantage of having a free memory load (and potentially even a store) in every opcode offsets these disadvantages < 1463857781 0 :Elronnd!?@? NICK :AmyBSD < 1463857790 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the overly compact encoding means you get more code cache for the same data size < 1463857806 0 :AmyBSD!?@? NICK :Elronnd < 1463857820 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the overly compact encoding means it can only do 3 instructions per cycle instead of 4 :D < 1463857852 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't call x86 chips RISC < 1463857862 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're basically really fast CISC < 1463857896 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they rename all registers and break down everything into microcodes... well, really fast RISCs do that too < 1463857923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding was that the uops are pretty risc-like < 1463857975 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sortof... I think core2 has 2-in-1 uops < 1463858005 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a load+compute op decodes to "1 uop made out of 2 parts" < 1463858049 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uops have renamed registers and stuff like that < 1463858067 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're only risc-like because they do 1 thing in 1 cycle... but that's what an uop is < 1463858124 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I guess what risc means is that you remove as many multi-uop opcodes as possible < 1463858140 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most aren't really worth the trouble < 1463858154 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ARM has multi-uop opcodes < 1463858201 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once you're down to uops, then everything is sorta risc-like yes... but that's normal, uops are like that < 1463858252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the advantage of having a 'free' memory load in an instruction? < 1463858267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :code size? < 1463858343 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1463858355 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes 1 less instruction to get your result < 1463858385 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance, to match the speed of the 4-op per cycle core2, you'd need a 5 or 6 op per cycle risc < 1463858401 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lowers the number of register file accesses < 1463858449 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r0, [r8 + 16] reads 2 times and writes 1 time; < 1463858473 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :load r1, [r8 + 16] add r0, r1 reads 4 times and writes 2 times < 1463858489 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need a larger register file with more ports < 1463858507 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it tends to take up less space in the instruction cache < 1463858521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :might you not end up getting the same microcode for both of those, though < 1463858548 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we all switch to DCPU-16! < 1463858560 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can do the CISC version in 1 micro-op < 1463858580 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone make a 83-key Model F keyboard anymore? < 1463858585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest we all switch to whatever the fuck skullcode runs so i get some closure on the damn thing < 1463858597 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RISC version is 2 micro-ops no matter how you do it < 1463858606 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :✊✋✌➊➋➌➍➎➏➐➑➒➓⍻⍼⍽⍾⍿⏴⏵⏶⏷⏸⏹⏺ꝨꝩꝪꝫꝬꝭꝮꝯꝰꝱꝲꝳꝴꝵꝶꝷꝸꝹꝺꝻꝼꙊꙋꙌꙍꙎꙏꙐꙑꙒꙓꙔꙕꙖꙗꙘꙙꙚꙛꙜꙝꙨꙩꙪꙫꙬꙭ〝〞〟〠< 1463858611 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to write to the register file twice < 1463858613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx \oren\ < 1463858639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, i guess my thinking was, wouldn't the CISC version have to load the memory into some intermediate place on the chip regardless < 1463858659 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but this intermediate place on the chip can be in the middle of the pipeline < 1463858666 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, a lot of the complicated stuff in newer instruction sets is very stupid, I think. So I must design it differently < 1463858669 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never has to rename this internmediate place < 1463858682 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it never has to retire/writeback that intermediate place < 1463858695 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it's done the result can disappear < 1463858729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it doesn't have to resolve all the abstractions between instructions < 1463858738 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1463858740 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman the Burlesque shell is moving to http://64.137.252.151/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi ... and I may need help building the cgi (currently trying...) < 1463858740 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1463858761 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the difference between "temp value" and "temp value stored in a program-accessible register" < 1463858764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean if you can do the load and add in one uop then why not have risc instructions for it? < 1463858775 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1463858787 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-120-181.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it's CISC not RISC :P < 1463858791 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a risc with load-add instructions is basically a cisc :D < 1463858811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what the hell is the point of RISC < 1463858829 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISCs are easier to build < 1463858834 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easier to speed optimize < 1463858854 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISCs did 4-instructions per cycle way before x86 < 1463858863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't have to bother building hardware to e.g. load operands and store them behind the scenes < 1463858865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1463858878 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's easier to do 4-instructions per cycles because you have less ops, less long latency ops < 1463858894 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1463858931 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly it's easier because all your ops do at most 2 register file reads and 1 register file write and have at most 2 cycles of latency < 1463858954 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes the scheduling easier < 1463858975 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you don't have to cram as many operands in a single op < 1463859037 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, your load-store ops happen only in the load-store unit so it's easy to strictly-order them < 1463859040 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new kind of computer design has separate video instruction set, audio instruction set, and main instruction set, and have deliberately designed the video instruction set so that no instruction does both read and write (on 6502 some instructions do); other than instruction decoding there is only up to one memory operation per instruction (in some cases there is none, and it would do a dummy read instead). < 1463859071 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having ops that happen both in the load-store unit which has to be ordered, AND the alu part which is easy to completely reorder willy-nilly < 1463859155 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory if you can find a way to get rid of the program-readable intermediate values in registers, you could do macro-op fusion on load+add instruction sequences and turn a RISC into a CISC < 1463859205 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have some write-only registers maybe < 1463859320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like it'd help < 1463859325 0 :hwpplayer1!~hwpplayer@195.142.216.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463859350 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm what if you had instructions of the form "load rA, add rB to rC" and "store rA, add rB to rC" < 1463859368 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where rA, rB and rC are always different < 1463859371 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that because the result might get read the CPU has to keep it around with certain assurances, whereas if it's only visible to the one instruction then it can be treated much less carefully < 1463859521 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone should just build a big memory pipeline and have a CPU which is just given flags to manipulate that pipeline. < 1463859640 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about some sort of "explicit pipelining" where all instructions contain several actions which don't interfere inside < 1463859882 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman actually building the cgi seems to have worked fine (a cabal file would help though...) but you can't currently log in; please contact me about that... < 1463859883 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1463860176 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iow, instead of having "add [r1] to r3, add [r2] to r4" and having that rearranged, you would write "read [r1], ???; read [r2], add mem to r3; ???, add mem to r4" < 1463860270 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : hmmmm < 1463860312 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like basically have instructions in the execution sequence, and have a separate stream that tells the logical sequence? < 1463860563 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of going the reverse way < 1463860593 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea would be that each instruction would contain a set of "mini-instructions" for each part of the cpu which are done in parallel < 1463860620 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463860656 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :load accumulator, [rA + imm], add rb, store in rc; load accumulator [rD + imm], add rE, store in rF < 1463860681 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : that's vliw no? < 1463860852 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a normal architecture an instruction minght contain microcode "a,b,c,d" and the next might contain "e,f,g,h" and then "i,j,k,l" and then the cpu does "a;be;cfi;dgj;...". my idea is that the instructions might instead just be "cfi" "dgj" < 1463860894 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463860903 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the parallelizability checking is offloaded to the compiler < 1463860993 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not "aei;bfj;cgk;dhl" ? < 1463861154 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I also thought of to do some kind of explicit pipelining and also explicit caching and so on < 1463861190 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: i'm assuming that a,e, and i are all the same sort of thing < 1463861202 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the same part of the processor < 1463861208 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the 83-key Model F keyboard? < 1463861210 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1463861225 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's value in some way of specifying which instructions are serial and which ones are parallel, but I don't think there's been a really good way yet < 1463861381 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way yet is vliw but you need calculation-heavy programs and it's hard to adapt vliw programs to later generation cpus < 1463861381 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463861389 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just build a unit which takes in the entire contents of the register file and an operation, and outputs the modified register file/ < 1463861393 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it's used in DSPs < 1463861396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you specify too much in the instructions then it takes control from the CPU engineers < 1463861416 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj : because then you need to run 32 operations in parallel? < 1463861427 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you need 64 read ports from the register file < 1463861457 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your definition of what "one operation" is. < 1463861511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just build a cpu where the only operand is RealWorld < 1463861557 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj : also how do you place your data cache ? < 1463861623 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, memory accesses wouldn't be doable in operations, rather, they'd be handled in the "segment" holding those. < 1463861668 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you write a segment which adds the current memory value to A, then adds 1 to the memory address, and if that address is at some limit, go to the next segment, else loop. < 1463861683 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The memory access would be at the segment boundary. < 1463861772 0 :jakleen!~jakleen@77.126.148.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463862040 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ꙨꙩꙪꙫꙬꙭꙮ < 1463862054 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463862072 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hippavilion[1] < 1463862085 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: *hppavellon[1] < 1463862095 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Or whatever boily usually says < 1463862116 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: A normal chessmatch is 1-chess. You can play with arbitrary values, though. It's up to how masochistic the players are. < 1463862178 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-chess and up should only be played by computers < 1463862199 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still investigating what 1.5-chess and such are) < 1463862245 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about hyperdimensional chess or something? < 1463862318 0 :jakleen!~jakleen@77.126.148.97 PART #esoteric : < 1463862484 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stꜽ fluffy < 1463862517 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok oren < 1463862520 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will stay fluffy < 1463862527 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolls about in a fluffy manner < 1463862534 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this makes no sense) < 1463862551 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it has any meaning to you, hit yourself with a frying pan and try again.) < 1463862562 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: No < 1463862574 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have no idea what ꜲꜳꜴꜵꜶꜷꜸꜹꜺꜻꜼꜽ are for < 1463862585 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: In 0-chess, white wins automatically < 1463862613 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ... I don't get it. Is the number how many moves you get? < 1463862629 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: No, I'm about to unveil the godly part < 1463862631 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you analyze "winning" or "losing" until the game at least reaches a check? < 1463862652 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anyone's even lost a piece? < 1463862685 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: In n-chess, every time a piece is captured, the players initiate a game of (n-1)-chess, in which white is the attacking player and black the defending player. The winner's piece goes to the defending square, the loser's piece is captured by the winner. In the event of a draw, white is interpreted as winning (or maybe black). < 1463862702 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: tempi, positional strength, piece coordination, gut feeling? < 1463862710 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463862721 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I'm reading chess reviews. I have no clue what all that means :P < 1463862755 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: It should not be played by mere mortals < 1463862759 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote capture < 1463862762 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :679) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. < 1463862777 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463862787 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking about continuous chess. < 1463862791 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"glurk" < 1463862798 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1463862799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :to date only one game has been played < 1463862807 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: it's hard to make articulate sounds with only half a body < 1463862811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oklopol won because i let him talk me into changing the rules in his favour < 1463862813 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Yes. < 1463862822 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose you could play 2-chess if you had a month to do it < 1463862823 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the atlantic is involved. < 1463862825 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: To play n-chess, you must play chess. < 1463862831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 2-chess < 1463862841 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: n-chess where n=2 < 1463862848 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463862855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :very clever, now answer properly < 1463862861 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: please stop making up vacuous terms. < 1463862863 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every capture involves a game of normal chess < 1463862866 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, that's literally the definition < 1463862869 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Scroll up < 1463862874 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I just explained it < 1463862876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's n-chess < 1463862882 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SCROLL UP < 1463862886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1463862906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1463862910 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I think phantom_hoover assumed you were joking < 1463862916 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I was not < 1463862920 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take maybe a year or two to play a game of 3 chess < 1463862932 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463862936 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i saw him talking about it earlier and i assumed it would be buried in scrollback < 1463862957 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: It's only meant to be played by million-person superminds, humans who have interfaced with a computer, and perfect beings woven of spacetime < 1463862969 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Borg. < 1463862980 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Those fall under (a) and (b) < 1463863010 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know, they keep getting outsmarted by a spaceship with a name that sounds like really bad software. < 1463863018 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how long it is until n-chess proliferates and he hears about it somewhere else and feels smug < 1463863021 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (b). < 1463863045 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And definitely not (c)) < 1463863066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], this is clearly the place to involve the surreals < 1463863079 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1463863086 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Already done (kind of); someone on ##math invented limit ordinal chess based on n-chess < 1463863101 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Though you could play traditional omega-chess if you can win a game of n-chess without capturing < 1463863108 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, new plan: kill everybody who knows about n-chess. < 1463863117 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: No. < 1463863118 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will prevent the demise of humanity via n-chess. < 1463863147 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Sorry, but I've upgraded humanity to 2-humanity. Every time you kill someone, you must run a simulation of the entire universe to determine success < 1463863152 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463863157 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too easy. < 1463863164 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1463863168 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1463863188 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which raises the question of how one "wins" the universe... < 1463863192 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, but I upgraded plot-foiling < 1463863196 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you foil a plot < 1463863205 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must run a simulation of plot-foiling to determine success < 1463863210 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. < 1463863239 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I upgraded upgrading. Every time you upgrade something, you must read every Yo Dawg meme on the internet. < 1463863240 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since I was the one who started it in the first place, the rules hadn't applied by the time I had started - they only apply afterward, < 1463863243 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463863244 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1463863246 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooo < 1463863260 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I upgraded verbs < 1463863261 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I will accept your unconditional surrender. < 1463863263 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you use a verb < 1463863275 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must read the oxford english dictionary out loud < 1463863278 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it's entirety < 1463863285 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: But only the verbs? < 1463863292 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should stop. < 1463863293 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, all of it < 1463863295 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1463863298 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should < 1463863309 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we annoyed the linguists < 1463863309 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I upgraded sto- no. < 1463863318 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you didn't < 1463863321 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your rules apply to you too! < 1463863327 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't upgrade stopping < 1463863343 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... wait... < 1463863344 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net TOPIC #esoteric :The international hub of solidity matrices | Ingredients: Hydrogen, time | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf < 1463863345 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAGG < 1463863355 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Recursion Error.) < 1463863397 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...does #esoteric contain any added sugar? < 1463863455 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: No, it all occured naturally < 1463863469 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1463863475 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could argue that no sugar is added, because the sugar-adding process is part of the natural course of the universe < 1463863486 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've upgraded quantum physics... < 1463863488 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, does it contain gluten? < 1463863592 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hereby releases n-chess under Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International, with the addendum that he gets bragging rights every time it is mentioned < 1463863615 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a bit late for that < 1463863638 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I don't want attribution < 1463863646 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Not really < 1463863664 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not really"? < 1463863679 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points at the massive clusters of gluten all over the surface of a random rock < 1463863689 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Well, every time it is mentioned by someone I don't know < 1463863699 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that < 1463863732 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: < 1463863778 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1463863807 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: -1-chess? < 1463863824 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463863828 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess -n-chess is one where wins are negated < 1463863843 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So getting checkmated makes you win < 1463863846 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about -0-chess? < 1463863852 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Yeah, that's the problem < 1463863968 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we agreed that an infinitesimal amount below 0 is below 0, but an infinitesimal chance is none at all? From that, we can then state that fractional values are measured by distance from 0 and reflect the chance the value will be flipped. < 1463863979 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Sure < 1463864005 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 1-chess has a fractional of 0, and on distance-from-0 that's 0, so there is no chance the value will be flipped. < 1463864014 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5-chess will result in all games actually having a random value. < 1463864016 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I think -n-chess works if we flip who plays white in subgames < 1463864051 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe??? < 1463864056 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I don't think that fractional n-chess should rely on probabilistic computing < 1463864061 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1463864072 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I don't think it matters when n>0, but when n=0 it makes everything work? Maybe? < 1463864075 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that this neatly rounds out the space of numbers. < 1463864078 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: There's also annihilation chess < 1463864086 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up. < 1463864088 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: But you need to add new pieces < 1463864102 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So that it's balanced) < 1463864135 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a piece captures another piece, the lesser-powered piece is destroyed and the greater-powered piece downgraded by the number of ranks in the lesser-powered piece < 1463864139 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ranks directly correspond to power < 1463864305 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could make a version of the turing infinite tape in different board games < 1463864316 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make them turing complete < 1463864337 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some kind of expandable rubik's cube < 1463864357 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinitely wide chess board < 1463864366 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an infinite number of pawns... < 1463864402 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the pieces following rules that are both a TC-CA and accurate to the game rules... < 1463864469 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'd have to be an order of operations of course... < 1463864492 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the right consrtuction you can make an infinite chessboard that expands infinitely rightwards and downwards into a sort of grid < 1463864511 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the left side and top side acts as a kind of border < 1463864523 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with top side and bottom side. < 1463864523 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I made up the new kind of computer, would you buy it and/or build a clone of it and/or write a program for it and/or sell it? < 1463864531 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use king & queen to work out direction... < 1463864544 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do turing complete calculation by moving a king and constantly keeping the king in check < 1463864559 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forcing it on a path < 1463864570 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: depends what. If your computer has > 16 MiB of RAM, I might write a BytePusher emulator... < 1463864594 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Ah, I see. < 1463864611 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: So the players would actually be precisely following Chess rules and would have no room for disambiguation. < 1463864619 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1463864632 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I have decided it would certainly have enough address space, although I don't know how much RAM would be included by default (but you could add more) < 1463864652 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like white would be 1 move from being checkmated < 1463864671 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I know how you could get two kings to continually advance right-wards. Have two endless rows of castles, one at the top, one at the bottom. < 1463864674 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way for white to survive is to keep black in perpetual check < 1463864720 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with my system, the players would swap turns going forward. < 1463864722 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the program doesn't halt then white can force a draw < 1463864723 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, infinite chess is known-incomputable < 1463864769 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the program halts then either white can win, or white always loses (depending on how the halting end of the board is constructed) < 1463864778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just construct an infinite tree such that there's an infinite branch iff some turing machine halts < 1463864826 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : hm yeah I guess there's a variety of infinite boards that are turing complete < 1463864839 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463864850 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I dunno if there's a proof for the simplest kind < 1463864869 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a board with a 1d repeating section to act as an infinite tape) < 1463865000 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to construct some kind of conveyor belt < 1463865019 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a wire crossing < 1463865025 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a memory cell < 1463866202 0 :notzerk!~notzerk@176.10.104.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463866331 0 :notzerk!~notzerk@176.10.104.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have Discord and want to join a fun server. L3L Chat's https://discord.gg/0um0KUI34PBX846G < 1463866378 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol discord < 1463866623 0 :notzerk!~notzerk@176.10.104.51 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1463866637 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's discord? < 1463866678 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sone chat nonsens for these letsplay twitch hipsters < 1463866706 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i u derstand its like a less horrible teamspeak < 1463866753 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what teamspeak is either. is it like AOL < 1463866765 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had AIM once upon a time < 1463866813 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it like that... wait, what's it called. < 1463866825 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ventrilo? < 1463866830 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine you take irc, remove some comfortable features to actually chat, add some uncomfortable features to voicechat < 1463866833 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are done < 1463866857 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :As popularized by that song. < 1463866881 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boten Anna. < 1463866891 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi sitter har i venten och spelar lite DOTA vi springer < 1463866900 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think that's a reference to Ventrilo? < 1463866909 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :de monstandet vi sleepar < 1463866962 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that a different song? Am I mising things up? < 1463866968 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://youtu.be/0OzWIFX8M-Y < 1463866971 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOTA < 1463866982 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah -- same guy, different song. < 1463867007 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't remeber the lyrics very accurately < 1463867027 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also! There's Mumble, I've heard of that. < 1463867390 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://youtu.be/y6120QOlsfU < 1463867460 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a very loud mumble < 1463867568 0 :hwpplayer1!~hwpplayer@195.142.216.158 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1463867593 0 :Froox!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1463867659 0 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463867754 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzaxizemjaejeaks QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463867824 0 :sewilton!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzqihnginnmraqwr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463867824 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ohfettsipvibistq JOIN :#esoteric < 1463867966 0 :sewilton!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wasonihxusrqqniy JOIN :#esoteric < 1463867973 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, isn't that Helsingin tuomiokirkko? < 1463868101 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that makes no sense, then it's immediately Huvilakuja right there in the next scene. < 1463868109 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't next to each other at all. < 1463868118 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could've ran all the way there in the meanwhile. < 1463868170 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: What programming language would you use for writing it, would it be written in Forth, in C, in BASIC, or in assembly language? (I would suspect it may be too slow if you don't write at least part of it in assembly language, and assembly language is likely required if you need custom display programs.) < 1463868223 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've lost track of the conversation. < 1463868251 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said if my computer has > 16 MiB of RAM then you might write the BytePusher emulator < 1463868285 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically. And that's assuming it had suitable display hardware. < 1463868288 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also I don't know the details yet of screen resolutions higher than 320x240, so that might also affect it) < 1463868340 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's also assuming I actually even bother. And there's also the fact this is all hypothetical anyway. < 1463868358 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for now it is hypothetical and the plans can be changed anyways. < 1463868385 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, zzo38 - are there any Brainfuck programs that you would particularly like to see on BytePusher? < 1463868408 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the one that they take over the world? < 1463868418 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, perfect! I already had that one compiled! < 1463868457 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I say "compiled". It's actually still interpreted, but the code has to be strapped to the binary. < 1463868464 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1463868480 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check current running program... < 1463868490 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finally Taking Over The World". < 1463868542 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I can't really strap a licence blob to a BytePusher executable without some work, so it's probably-not-entirely complying with the GPL licence. < 1463868593 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1463868627 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just add the data to the end unused; that isn't really quite it but it is idea. Another way would be to add a screen with license information, and then it switches out of that screen once any key is pushed, and start the rest of the program. < 1463868653 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm kind of in the middle of something else ^.^; < 1463868699 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does that mean I have to now give you the entirety of the source code to the BytePusher Brainfuck interpreter? And does that include the compiler... < 1463868701 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah. < 1463868725 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be fine with it in theory, but this is distractions upon distractions < 1463868740 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does not include the compiler as far as I know, but maybe it does for the interpreter I don't know. < 1463868758 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but the compiler's entirely custom < 1463868796 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463868931 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, Wikipedia. You've got the "List of lists of lists", but you *don't* have the "List of music videos shot in Finland". < 1463869040 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463869408 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1463869474 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463869757 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: infinite-player chess/ < 1463869759 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1463869767 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463869777 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every player only makes one move in the entire game < 1463870353 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1463870765 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463871475 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463871477 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't know what my new kind of computer design would be called (even codename are not provided at this time). < 1463871479 0 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1463871713 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kindof both retro and modern at the same time < 1463871744 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463871840 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the graphics capabilities are different than BytePusher. Two kinds of formats could be supported for all-points-addressable playfield graphics, which are 4-plane PseudoColor XY format and 15-plane TrueColor Z format. You could also use bobs, which use something like "Chunky-Extra-HalfBrite" format. (But you could also do tiles and sprites, and can even change it per scanline.) < 1463872112 0 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463872291 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1463872321 0 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1463872501 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yes that is part of what the point of it is though < 1463872554 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION surprised a badger today < 1463872599 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suddenly leapt out near some garbage bins. < 1463872609 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463872617 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1463872723 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably not make the blitter more complicated than I have already written, although an over-complicated (and very slow) blitter could be made by adding muxcomp into the blitter, as well as configurable data sizes, line mode (like Amiga has), and an outer loop as well as the inner loop; with this over-complicated variant it would probably do anything you need the blitter to do. Of course I won't do it like this though; it would probably be < 1463872994 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much must Draughts be improved before it just becomes chess with a different set of armies? < 1463873019 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I don't know, but you can try. < 1463873052 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"improved", hmm < 1463873728 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "improved" was used loosely < 1463873946 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was "chess" < 1463874107 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow's evening forecast looks wet. < 1463874112 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1463874113 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 212220Z 11008KT CAVOK 13/03 Q1006 RMK WIND 670FT 17015KT < 1463874115 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1463874122 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1463874131 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1463874207 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profit \ 1W \ Instant \ Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. \ Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.) \ [This is half of the split card Profit // Loss.] \ DGM-U < 1463874207 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust//bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. < 1463874208 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1463874423 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust spam >>>>>>>>>([-]>)*-1 < 1463874424 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan.spam: points -13.81, score 10.75, rank 47/47 < 1463874430 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1463874452 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "bfjoust"? < 1463874466 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1463874466 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. < 1463874522 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463874531 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: a programming game and bf derivative < 1463874574 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463874634 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust spam >>>>>>>>>([-][-]>)*-1 < 1463874635 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan.spam: points -16.62, score 9.35, rank 47/47 (--) < 1463874644 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh that got worse. < 1463874647 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1463874664 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never was much of a jouster. < 1463874665 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust troddler >[-]+[>[-]+] < 1463874666 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj.troddler: points -25.64, score 5.76, rank 47/47 < 1463874716 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: that one won't manage to clear a flag for 2 rounds < 1463874734 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1463874740 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1463874763 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust troddler >>>>>>>>>>[-]+[>[-]+] < 1463874765 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj.troddler: points -17.93, score 8.91, rank 47/47 (--) < 1463874796 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the current hill is ridiculously hard to beat. < 1463874854 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A variant of "fuse" is "fuseback" that is not official but someone suggested it and I have made up the more precise rules for it and a few cards using it. Fuseback means you can cast both halves of the card from your graveyard (you can't cast only one half from your graveyard, nor both halves from your hand), in which case it is exiled when it resolves. < 1463874857 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>(+)*128>>>>>>[-]+[>[-]+] < 1463874867 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust troddler >>(+)*128>>>>>>[-]+[>[-]+] < 1463874868 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj.troddler: points -20.76, score 7.62, rank 47/47 (--) < 1463874874 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got worse, somehow. < 1463874888 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463874897 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust troddler >>->>>>>>[-]+[>[-]+] < 1463874898 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj.troddler: points -17.05, score 9.15, rank 47/47 (--) < 1463874909 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. back on track < 1463874921 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust troddler >>->>->>->>[-]+[>[-]+] < 1463874922 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj.troddler: points -17.76, score 8.84, rank 47/47 (--) < 1463874957 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? eggspert < 1463874961 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eggspert? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1463874974 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1463874977 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeesh//See yeeesh. < 1463875038 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust troddler >>->>>>>>[-]+[->[-<+]<[>>[-]]+] < 1463875040 0 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj.troddler: points -32.62, score 2.55, rank 47/47 (--) < 1463875043 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1463875055 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH I lost track of what my code was doing aroubd about the end part < 1463875079 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light Side {W} Instant ;; Target white creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn. ;; Target player gains 1 life. /// Dark Side {B} Instant ;; Target black creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn. ;; Target player loses 1 life. /// Fuseback < 1463875158 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463875187 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: btw the wiki has a lot of strategy discussion.