00:00:17 because assigning to argv isn't that common 00:00:29 no 00:00:42 IF YOU SAY SO 00:00:53 im assigning a var t- discworld? really :P 00:02:57 * oerjan gets a http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html vibe 00:03:53 (translation: you're not giving any information that could actually tell me why you are failing) 00:04:47 But you're a mind-reader, aren't you? 00:05:21 more like mind-flayer. BRAINS. 00:06:41 is there a good way to use sed to replace | with (space)? it doesnt wana 00:07:02 I think that's NP-hard. 00:07:16 like how? 00:07:28 * oerjan mourns the probable death of Mr. Izquxxisquid 00:07:40 infact, is ther a good way to replace | with (space) in th first plac? 00:07:51 moon_: s/[|]/ / 00:09:12 probably with a g at the end? unless you only want to replace one | per line 00:09:35 ya, with th g :P 00:09:36 well he didn't specify so i left it out. 00:10:00 (exercise for the reader etc. etc.) 00:10:14 now i jst need to seperate each number into the approprite variables 00:10:50 and im lost again xD 00:10:56 i am terrible with bash 00:12:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:12:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:13:20 newer versions of bash support arrays, i wonder if hackego does 00:13:55 `` bash --version 00:13:57 GNU bash, version 4.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later \ \ This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. 00:14:12 `` which zsh 00:14:13 hth 00:14:14 No output. 00:14:33 `` num[10]={ zero one two} 00:14:38 `` which zsh; echo $? 00:14:47 `` num[10]={ zero one two } 00:15:05 hackegolagged up again >_> 00:15:31 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: zero: command not found 00:16:05 )= 00:16:10 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: zero: command not found 00:16:11 1 00:16:19 `spam 00:16:21 3/2: 00:16:29 Oh, right. 00:16:30 `5 00:16:35 1/3:117) GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! \ 362) as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw quintopia: I am at Canada. \ 984) hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on 00:16:38 `spam 00:16:39 2/3:tubas oh! he killed hitler oh yeah, there we go thanks Fiora he also killed the guy who killed hitler \ 558) l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt \ 333) Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser monqy, how hard could it be 00:16:41 `spam 00:16:43 3/3:? \ 00:17:16 `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n .123456789; done 00:17:18 ​.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456789.123456 00:17:34 is there some hidden charm to 558 00:18:12 hm as i suspected, the 350 includes the zwsp 00:18:23 `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n 0123456789; done 00:18:24 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 00:18:42 you can do that in fewer keystrokes 00:18:43 Good thing I went with 330. 00:18:45 `` for i in `seq 1 40`; do echo -n '<'123456789; done 00:18:48 ​<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456789<123456 00:18:56 `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d-3456789" i; done 00:18:57 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: invalid number \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: printf: i: 00:18:58 `` for i in {1..40}; do echo -n 0123456789; done 00:19:00 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 00:19:03 `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d-3456789" $i; done 00:19:04 01-345678902-345678903-345678904-345678905-345678906-345678907-345678908-345678909-345678910-345678911-345678912-345678913-345678914-345678915-345678916-345678917-345678918-345678919-345678920-345678921-345678922-345678923-345678924-345678925-345678926-345678927-345678928-345678929-345678930-345678931-345678932-345678933-345678934-345678935-3456789 00:19:18 `` for i in {1..40}; do printf "%02d>345678<" $i; done 00:19:19 it's like you think i'm golfing or something. 00:19:26 what is the goal? 00:19:31 what are you trying to golf? 00:19:39 No one is golfing anything except for you. 00:19:54 `tr 00:19:57 01>345678<02>345678<03>345678<04>345678<05>345678<06>345678<07>345678<08>345678<09>345678<10>345678<11>345678<12>345678<13>345678<14>345678<15>345678<16>345678<17>345678<18>345678<19>345678<20>345678<21>345678<22>345678<23>345678<24>345678<25>345678<26>345678<27>345678<28>345678<29>345678<30>345678<31>345678<32>345678<33>345678<34>345678<35>345678< 00:19:58 tr: missing operand \ Try `tr --help' for more information. 00:19:59 Elronnd: i'm trying to determine HackEgo's output cutoff rules 00:20:08 using shell ranges is probably more optimized, too 00:20:33 oerjan: cutoff for what? 00:20:35 output size? 00:20:42 is there a good way to get a random number that is 1 through 10? 00:21:05 moon_: random(6)? 00:21:15 oh, kk. im a bash idiot 00:21:25 `` for i in {1..1500}; do printf $i; done 00:21:26 12345678910111111111213141516171819202122222222232425262728293031323333333435363738394041424344444444454647484950515253545555556575859606162636465666666667686970717273747576777778798081828384858687888990919293949596979899100101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139140141142 00:21:29 Elronnd: that produces a random number in the range 1 to 10? 00:21:31 oerjan: ^ 00:21:43 ais523: random, the unix command 00:21:46 (6), games 00:21:55 ah right 00:23:17 `delquote 558 00:23:22 ​*poof* l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt 00:23:27 -!- iTitou has left. 00:23:37 elliott would probably revert that but I don't understand the significance. 00:23:45 Elronnd: i already solved the problem, it's more subtle than that, and your output is not very good at giving the information anyway hth 00:23:59 `` hog quotes | grep lerrelrre 00:24:05 No output. 00:24:20 I guess it's a nitia quote. 00:24:38 `5 00:24:40 1/3:1255) izabera: It's sort of like the principal, as far as I know. Except It only prints " BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL!" Counting down from 99 to 0. With no line breaks. \ 872) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people \ 726) the 00:24:42 `spam 00:24:43 2/3:re was a time when I liked wearing a tie too.. I was a mormon. not claiming one has to be a religious nutcase to wear a tie, of course \ 505) elliott: mr president, commissioner, i fully accept that description when it comes to human rights. yes, with an average fat content of chocolate, and we are using double standard 00:24:45 `spam 00:24:46 3/3:s! we all know that under present legislation and also in relation to standardization bodies. if i do not want. \ 940) a comathmatician is a device for turning cotheorems into ffee \ 00:25:06 i just need to split up a string by |'s now 00:25:12 then i can write the main mechanics 00:25:22 shachaf: i don't feel `spam output counts as the 5 quote process but then i don't understand 558 either (something involving race conditions?) 00:25:31 oerjan: Why not? 00:25:34 `cat bin/5 00:25:36 for i in {1..5}; do quote; done | sport 00:26:07 shachaf: because the output is so noisy that i don't bother to read it. 00:26:28 Well, it's less noisy than `quote`quote`quote`quote`quote. 00:26:33 At least in terms of vertical space. 00:26:55 I guess `5 could use spore instead of sport, but then you don't save any lines. 00:27:56 `delquote 940 00:27:59 ​*poof* a comathmatician is a device for turning cotheorems into ffee 00:28:14 Hmm, maybe 1255 would've been better. 00:28:15 I don't know. 00:28:17 Everything is bad. 00:28:19 -!- shachaf has left. 00:34:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:38:27 hi hppavilion[1] 00:38:34 helloon_ 00:38:53 moon_: I think you're the first person to show up on #esoteric since I joined who has really stuck around 00:38:55 how can i commend shachaf on his `? predictate definition when he's not here :( 00:39:04 heh 00:39:08 `ccommend shachaf 00:39:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ccommend: not found 00:39:14 `commend shachaf 00:39:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: commend: not found 00:39:34 oerjan: Can HackEgo commands detect who invoked them? 00:40:00 hppavilion[1]: we haven't found a way, alas 00:40:02 (I have developed a habit of hitting in the middle of words to expand them, forgetting that they aren't names and thus could not possibly be tab-completed) 00:40:20 it seems the information just isn't in the sandbox. 00:40:22 gg 00:40:37 also, installed openbsd on a subsystem 00:40:44 `` ps aux | grep oerjan 00:40:46 50000 288 11.0 0.2 4180 620 ? S 23:40 0:00 sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' '`' 'ps aux | grep oerjan' | cat \ 5000 291 32.0 0.6 19140 1600 ? 00:41:00 but it keeps running out of space just to unpack ports.tar.gz on a 8 gb disk 00:41:01 `` printenv | grep oerjan 00:41:02 No output. 00:41:07 ports is only 40-50mb 00:41:08 no trace of it 00:41:59 whats going on? 00:42:29 `` ls proc 00:42:33 ls: cannot access proc: No such file or directory 00:42:35 `` ls /proc 00:42:36 1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 293 \ 294 \ 295 \ 296 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms 00:43:00 `` grep oerjan | /proc/mem 00:43:21 too many pipes 00:43:29 oops 00:43:31 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /proc/mem: No such file or directory 00:43:33 :P 00:43:39 `` grep oerjan /proc/mem 00:43:40 grep: /proc/mem: No such file or directory 00:43:44 ...well 00:44:01 accessing dev/mem is prohibited i beleive 00:44:05 `` ls /proc/*mem* 00:44:08 ​/proc/iomem \ /proc/meminfo 00:44:19 PERHAPS 00:44:32 `echo /dev/mem 00:44:33 ​/dev/mem 00:44:40 `cat /dev/mem 00:44:43 cat: /dev/mem: Permission denied 00:47:25 oerjan: That is pretty annoying 00:47:30 oerjan: You'd think that... 00:47:31 `help 00:47:32 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 00:47:36 `credits 00:47:38 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: credits: not found 00:48:01 ...GregorR would have thought to include that 00:48:06 you would. 00:48:16 but he didn't. 00:48:26 btw he's dropped the R. 00:48:32 Oh 00:48:39 oerjan: His bitbucket still has it 00:48:45 ok 00:48:52 So when discussing that, I shall include the R 00:48:57 not that he's coming here any longer. 00:49:02 Of course 00:49:23 being all snotty professory and stuff 00:49:30 Huh 00:49:41 SMBC's setup for comic searching is really quite shit 00:50:05 it cannot possibly be worse than Drive's hth 00:50:24 oerjan: Drive's? 00:50:37 Drive, the scifi comic. 00:50:41 Ah 00:51:13 oerjan: The "random" button's target is determined serverside when the page is loaded; so if you open "random" in a new tab twice from the same page without reloading, you will get the same comic both times 00:51:53 And I just discovered that the "go to most recent" button is actually calculated; so if you have a page open and a new SMBC is added and you click the "most recent" button after, it will actually go to the one that was most recent when the page was loaded 00:52:00 Instead of just going to the main comic page 00:53:45 The proper way to go to a random comic is to have an intermediate page that forms a redirect to a random comic; the "random" button simply links to its URL 00:54:08 And the proper way to go to the most recent comic is to link to the main comic page, which generally includes the most recent comic by default 00:55:47 `cat /dev/null 00:55:48 No output. 00:55:51 Hm... 00:56:51 Maybe we should hack `cat so when it's called on /dev/null it prints "And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." 00:58:01 that'd be neat 00:58:07 can we do it? 00:58:14 like is there a way? 00:58:22 but `cat should produce an empty output on /dev/null 00:59:12 `cat output 00:59:13 No output. 00:59:19 its lieing 00:59:21 ais523: Why? 00:59:31 `url output 00:59:32 ais523: Would things break if it did not? 00:59:34 hppavilion[1]: because /dev/null reads as an empty file 00:59:35 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/output 00:59:46 ais523: Yes, but we'd hack `cat to special-case /dev/null 00:59:47 cat's job is to, among other things, recreate the contents of files 01:00:11 hppavilion[1]: then "cat | command" can act differently from "command" 01:00:12 it certainly _could_ break things. whether it actually will... 01:00:24 -!- xkapastel has joined. 01:00:25 I can certainly imagine programs that break as a result of the identity function not being an identity 01:00:33 oerjan: Eh, this is #esoteric. Do we really have anything that isn't broken? 01:00:41 lol 01:00:46 fungot: are you broken 01:00:46 oerjan: and " current" just corresponds to the equations a k*b, b k*(a b) implies b fnord b) and 1 is slightly faster ( less slow). ( 3) 01:00:56 ais523: Yes, but do any programs use cat /dev/null as the identity function? 01:01:18 Ah, the fnord connective. 01:01:32 hppavilion[1]: well, say we want to recreate combinatory logic in bash 01:01:42 (there doesn't have to be a reason for this, this is #esoteric) 01:01:42 ais523: Why would we do that? 01:01:47 Oh, right 01:02:00 ais523: We'd just use the actual `cat, which would be hidden somewhere else 01:02:27 `` rgrep null bin 01:02:33 bin/quote: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/echo-p:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/google:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ bin/roll: if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/null \ bin/delquote:e 01:02:48 what does --lss do? 01:03:12 `` rgrep null bin | sport 01:03:16 1/5:bin/quote: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/echo-p:echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/google:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ bin/roll: if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/n 01:03:19 `spam 01:03:21 2/5:ull \ bin/delquote:expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1 || exit 1 \ bin/delquote:diff quotes quotes.new >/dev/null && exit 1 \ Binary file bin/luac matches \ bin/etymology:lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ bin/rm-p:rm "$1"; rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ Binary file bin/jq matches \ bin/ 01:03:46 I take it that `sport outputs the first line of a multiline command, and `spam returns subsequent lines? 01:03:48 `spam 01:03:50 3/5:forth:exec gforth -e "$* bye" /dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ bin/runc:echo -e "$@" | gcc -trigraphs -o $t -x c - 2>/dev/null && $t \ bin/pastelog: if expr "$1" + 0 01:04:09 ais523: actually it's not quite line-based (yet, anyway) 01:04:23 `spam 01:04:24 4/5:>/dev/null 2>&1; then \ Binary file bin/lua matches \ Binary file bin/tclkit matches \ bin/quotes: if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ bin/translatefromto: --data-urlencode langpair="$FROM"'|'"$TO" 2> /dev/null | \ bin/ls:if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" 01:04:33 `spam 01:04:34 5/5:; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi \ Binary file bin/units matches \ 01:04:36 oerjan: first output line 01:04:58 well i see no obvious uses of cat /dev/null, although who knows what lynx does internally... 01:05:29 (mind you the web proxy is probably not working anyway 01:05:38 or gforth 01:05:45 if we changed that to cat | gforth itd break 01:05:49 *it'd 01:09:04 ais523: i don't think HackEgo's stdin is /dev/null btw, which i however consider a bug 01:09:18 (it's the reason for some occasional long timeouts) 01:09:21 `` ls -l /proc/self/fd 01:09:23 total 0 \ lr-x------ 1 50000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 0 -> /tty1 \ l-wx------ 1 5000000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 1 -> pipe:[257] \ l-wx------ 1 500000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 2 -> /tty1 \ lr-x------ 1 5000000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 3 -> /console \ l-wx------ 1 5000000 327963 64 Jun 5 00:08 4 -> /console \ lr-x------ 1 5000 327963 64 Jun 5 00: 01:09:38 "/tty1"? 01:09:48 `` cat bin/` 01:09:50 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:09:53 `` cat bin/\` 01:09:53 ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnoooooodl 01:10:39 there are some strange options there, and that pipe made me suspicious 01:10:50 also what's up with FDs 3 and 4? 01:10:52 ais523: anyway that wouldn't break if the modified cat only looked at the argument line 01:11:00 `` echo test 1>&3 01:11:01 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: echo: write error: Bad file descriptor 01:11:33 oerjan: surely you'd want cat /dev/null to work the same way as cat i'm not saying this is a good idea, i'm just saying it could be done not to break things much worse than they already are. 01:12:54 also, you're right to be suspicious hth 01:17:52 my god openbsd's ports is big. 01:18:01 it ate up all the space in the usr dir 01:18:22 and it has taken several minutes to move to main storage 01:19:37 im going to make a larger disk next time >_> 01:19:45 32 gb instead of 8 01:22:08 ill soon be talking to you all over openbsd, bbl 01:22:12 -!- moon_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:28:19 -!- moon_ has joined. 01:28:26 i lied, everything is stalling in openbsd >_> 01:28:32 the download is taking too long 01:30:05 3-4 mb downloads are not ment to take 4 minutes internet ._ 01:33:57 lol the freebsd make 'checks wether the enviornment is sane' 01:34:01 lo*openbsd 01:34:05 it would fail here. 01:34:45 moon_: that check has succeeded even in cases where it /really/ shouldn't (e.g. C-INTERCAL running on gcc-bf) 01:35:00 lol 01:35:23 the hexchat irc client will be done in no time :P 01:36:24 its spamming my terminal 01:36:28 )= 01:50:54 http://www.haneke.net/ 01:50:58 intresting site 01:52:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:52:57 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:58:22 `rm output 01:58:26 No output. 01:59:26 i think you catted it instead tdnh 02:00:23 `mk canary//cat: canary: No such file or directory 02:00:29 canary 02:00:48 `cat canary 02:00:49 cat: canary: No such file or directory 02:00:51 lol 02:00:57 `cat yranac 02:00:59 cat: yranac: No such file or directory 02:00:59 that was similar to the joke in output 02:01:11 I approve of this canary 02:01:21 output contained: 'No output.' 02:01:56 But making files in /hackenv is frowned upon. 02:02:23 anways, did you all look at this: http://www.haneke.net/ 02:05:55 moon_: yes, and i have the earworm to prove it hth 02:06:27 the site has no sound 02:06:38 moon_: huh? it does for me. 02:06:59 yea, it doesnt 02:07:24 oh, it does 02:07:25 i'm not sure if it's meant to be something more than a background animation... 02:07:34 nope, its not lol 02:07:42 a few test clicks did nothing, anyway 02:08:19 but it inspired another random esolang :P 02:08:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:09:00 nvm someone beat me to something similart 02:09:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Marbelous 02:09:13 moon_: in that case, have you seen Rube? 02:09:18 mhm 02:10:22 but im gonna go for a single char lang instead, so i might just do it. 02:10:57 first, interpreter for a usable language 02:11:33 Rube is a single char lang, although Rubicon uses graphics. 02:12:50 hmm, ok then 02:13:06 wait why did i say that if i have seen it? xD 02:17:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Destructible watermelon * New user account 02:18:36 interesting name 02:18:53 "destructible" is usually implied. 02:18:53 it has spaces though 02:18:54 oerjan: rubicon's a single char lang internally 02:18:58 you could just say it's using a particularly pretty font 02:20:44 is there a good way to map a string to a grid? 02:20:55 aka 1d array to 2d array? 02:21:04 wait dont answer that. 02:21:36 nvm do answer it :P 02:23:51 what do you mean 02:24:10 do you want [1,2,3,4,5,6] to look like [ [1,2], [3,4], [5,6] ]? 02:24:14 i want to map a 1 dimensional array to a 2 dimensional array in C++ 02:24:18 moon_: replace newlines with "go to the next line" 02:24:47 moon_: what do you mean "map" a 1 dimensional array? 02:25:05 apply it to a 2 dimensional array, make it 2d 02:25:15 can you give me an example? 02:25:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:25:34 * oerjan senses a certain lack of precision 02:25:37 Why is theft a crime, but cotheft isn't a cocrime? 02:25:58 hppavilion[1]: cocrime is a cotheft, duh 02:25:59 hth 02:26:22 http://pastebin.com/MH4QRFGK 02:26:22 Theft, of course, being the decrease of another person's economic value or the exchange of goods without their consent, and cotheft being increasing the value 02:26:27 there is your example 02:26:41 Then again, I have nfc what cocrime is, so maybe it is 02:27:18 moon_: what do you do if the length of the string is prime twh 02:27:20 moon_: what if you have 1345 02:27:25 ermm 02:27:26 12345 02:27:36 then it would wrap around 02:27:47 wrapped with nulls 02:27:58 so 12NULL 345 02:28:02 or 123 NULL45 02:28:25 no you would have 12 34 5NULL 02:28:33 oerjan: Wait, what? 02:28:33 or that 02:28:36 ohh 02:28:38 oerjan: What's moon_ doing in the first place? 02:28:41 it depends on how it is written 02:28:45 2d interpreter 02:28:59 moon_: Find a prime p s.t. p+1 is also prime 02:29:28 moon_: so you want to split an array into an array of arrays of 2 chars each 02:29:33 no 02:29:40 an array into a square array 02:29:55 12 34 5NULL isn't square 02:30:08 it is rectangulare 02:30:29 also, although I don't have any experience with C/C++, wouldn't you get a type error if you tried to put a NULL in an array of int? 02:30:34 but 12NULL 34 5, 12 34NULL 5 are examples 02:30:59 this is an array of chars, the char there would be the 2d language's nop 02:31:30 hppavilion[1]: why do you expect me to know 02:31:41 C supports 2d arrays 02:31:58 how is the rectangle size decided? 02:32:02 is it arbitrary? 02:32:03 i.e char 2darray[100][100] 02:32:14 say you had a string 12 chars long 02:32:15 thats what i need a way to DO 02:32:18 would it be 6x2 02:32:19 >_> 02:32:20 or x4 02:32:22 3x4 02:32:22 oerjan: Well, you asked what happens if the length of the string is prime, so I made a guess that you understood enough to know that would be a problem 02:32:27 Hm... 02:32:34 I just realized something interesting about english 02:32:39 what 02:32:40 You can have adjectives which are synonyms 02:32:44 lol 02:32:48 hppavilion[1]: I imagine that if n were prime, the 2D array would be 1xn 02:33:01 But which when applied to the same noun mean different things 02:33:05 But only relative to each other 02:33:11 For example, "very" and "extremely" 02:33:19 huh 02:33:20 wow 02:33:24 They're adjectives 02:33:27 ok to avoid this problem im gonna use a fixed array 02:33:31 (I think) 02:33:38 i'm very bored and extremely tired 02:33:41 ermm 02:33:42 And they both describe that another adjective is exaggerated 02:33:44 i'm very bored and extremely excited 02:33:46 Essentially, they're synonyms 02:33:53 how would i apply a strin up to 10000 chars long to a 100x100 array? :P 02:33:54 in C 02:34:14 And if you say something is "very big or something is "extremely big", they mean the same thing 02:34:22 ^ 02:34:23 s/very big/very big"/ 02:34:38 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47127&oldid=46650 * Destructible watermelon * (+453) /* Looks Like */ 02:34:58 But if you say one thing is "very big" and another thing is "extremely big", then it stands to reason that the second thing is bigger than the first 02:35:12 Even though "very" and "extremely" mean the same thing 02:35:13 for (i=0;i==length_of_str;i++) {well 02:35:15 gah 02:35:15 well 02:35:16 sure 02:35:26 they express different magnitudes 02:35:29 but they can still be considered synonyms 02:35:34 Elronnd: Yes, but only when used together 02:35:49 wait i got it 02:35:59 Elronnd: When only one is used, they express roughly the same range of magnitudes 02:36:07 Is there a linguistic term for this? 02:36:19 (This was inspired, of all things, by the Goldbach Conjectures) 02:36:22 hppavilion[1]: no, i just understood enough to think of an example where moon_'s statement of the problem was underspecified. 02:36:52 oerjan: But what was the problem in the first place? 02:36:53 moon_: I'm guessing that you want the sides of the rectangle to be as close as possible to each other? 02:36:57 mhm 02:37:16 moon_: By the way 02:37:18 hppavilion[1]: they're adverbs, not adjectives hth 02:37:30 oerjan: Are they? 02:37:35 Oh well, it still works if they are 02:37:44 moon_: I calculated the odds of everybody on earth sneezing at the same time 02:37:59 (at any given second) 02:38:18 (or something; I don't remember what the math means precisely) 02:38:29 It's 5.2345140545750255095729057789677877107902000024178184273063118452216398192830384321642665672586107071499738573951676069816850719055839882135729586168861337085743787119721991366279460690571913008155670283808735608620… × 10^-37943769263 02:38:39 oh my god 02:38:41 lol 02:38:45 big number 02:39:07 does C guarantee that arrays of arrays are unpadded? in that case it should be easy to cheat. 02:39:09 im takeing that to bay12 quotes thread :P 02:39:40 i have a programming chalange for you all, by the way 02:39:46 oerjan: it's trivial to pad them, if not 02:39:49 moon_: what is it? 02:39:51 make a language that uses objects out of http://www.haneke.net/ for its operands 02:40:03 and then makea interpreter 02:40:16 you dont need all of the objects 02:40:49 what is that site 02:41:00 giant gif marble machine 02:42:03 Elronnd: i mean that you might just cast the array to a string, then copy into it 02:42:46 (add "pointer to" as needed) 02:43:50 actually, memory operations would work, C/C++ store 2d arrays in a 1d format still 02:43:54 without padding 02:44:09 moon_: well i was asking whether that is guaranteed. 02:44:17 i beleive so 02:44:40 if not, you can always use for loops. 02:44:45 yup 02:45:07 it seems to me that deciding the number of rows is the hardest part :) 02:45:19 mhm 02:45:27 (ideally needs a square root) 02:46:39 so elronnd, you take it? 02:47:17 moon_: That's a small number 02:47:20 moon_: here's my (very bad) pseudocode http://lpaste.net/165400 02:47:23 for your 2D problem 02:47:26 moon_: Notice the '-' after the '^' 02:47:41 ik 02:47:59 im saying its very 'long' which is synonomus with big in most ways 02:48:02 (= 02:48:16 moon_: Not in math 02:48:29 i ment in characters of text 02:48:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:54:18 whats the best language for code golfing? 02:55:34 moon_: brainfuck 02:55:36 ;) 02:55:38 lolno 02:55:44 P, maybe 02:55:49 bash+coreutils is not that bad 02:55:52 in some cases, yes 02:56:08 but very rarely is brainfuck a good golfer 02:56:34 Best language for code golfing can depend what program, is one thing. But there is also other kind of details. 02:56:48 but best in general is what i want lol 02:56:56 well 02:57:00 kind of the point of unix 02:57:04 is that there is no one best tool 02:57:06 there are many 02:57:12 and you choose the one that fits the task 02:58:52 someone give me something to golf 02:58:53 I'm bored 02:59:03 @where e_10 02:59:03 [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]] 02:59:04 @where pi_10 02:59:04 (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] 02:59:07 Golf one of those. 02:59:13 wat? 02:59:24 > [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]] 02:59:25 no 02:59:27 "271828182845904523536028747135266249775724709369995957496696762772407663035... 02:59:35 > (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] 02:59:38 "314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628... 02:59:39 golf a PRNG? 02:59:59 I don't know enough to write a PRNG regularly 03:00:04 oh 03:00:07 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:00:15 golf a program that prints my username lol 03:00:36 simple 03:00:47 print("moon_") 03:00:50 python 03:01:38 #include void main(){printf("moon_");} 03:01:38 C 03:01:57 The first one is suboptimal and the second one is invalid. 03:02:06 replace stdio.h with iostream for C++ 03:02:22 @where+ anagol http://golf.shinh.org/ 03:02:23 It is stored. 03:02:34 There you go. All the golfing you could ever want. 03:02:37 nope, ?,moon_ is the one 03:02:46 thats in Bantas by the way 03:03:11 shachaf: shachaf would you rather __import__("sys").stdout.write("moon_") ? 03:12:29 Elronnd, here, try golfing this: turn a 1d array into a 5d array http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Turn+a+1d+array+into+a+5d+array 03:12:38 ^ul (moon_)S 03:12:38 moon_ 03:13:01 oerjan, bantas has the shortest so far: ?,moon_ 03:13:07 (bantas being a esolang) 03:13:32 very well, i'll do it in ///: 03:13:34 moon_ 03:13:43 lol 03:13:53 no instaquine languages 03:14:00 it's not 03:14:11 anything that is not a slash is printed in /// 03:14:24 //moon_/ will also print moon_, IIRC 03:14:33 lol 03:14:36 no. 03:14:39 that'll infloop 03:18:28 oerjan: that doesn't look like it's in FlooP at all hth 03:18:53 oerjan: what's your review of ghc 8 twh 03:20:13 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Im. 03:20:21 -!- Im has changed nick to Elronnd. 03:21:37 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Youre. 03:21:47 -!- Youre has changed nick to Elronnd. 03:22:39 IRP anyone? 03:22:49 (internet relay programming) 03:22:54 #irp is thataway 03:23:17 unless it's ##irp. i've forgotten. 03:23:26 its #irp, but its almost dead 03:23:35 shachaf: could use a little more salt hth 03:23:49 -!- moon_ has changed nick to worst. 03:23:52 -!- worst has changed nick to moon_. 03:24:08 -!- Destructible has joined. 03:24:08 wat 03:24:11 nvm 03:24:15 Hello, and welcome! 03:24:17 hi 03:24:30 I hope you enjoy the unix bot, hackego (= 03:24:31 tip: we created it because we were sick of people doing irp in #esoteric hth 03:24:42 `rwelcome destructible 03:24:55 i,i "redundant welcome" 03:24:56 admittedly that may have been after it got reddited. 03:25:07 ​destructible: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 03:25:17 no, rainbow welcome )= 03:25:20 wait, `rwelcome exists? 03:25:27 mhm 03:25:39 `` diff bin/r{,w}elcome 03:25:45 No output. 03:25:56 `cat rwelcome 03:25:56 cat: rwelcome: No such file or directory 03:26:01 fairy nuff 03:26:03 `cat bin/rwelcome 03:26:04 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords 03:26:13 it just feeds welcome to rainwords 03:26:17 `1 ls -l bin/r{,w}elcome 03:26:19 1/1:lrwxrwxrwx 1 500000 0 8 Dec 9 04:12 bin/relcome -> rwelcome \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000000 0 35 Dec 9 04:12 bin/rwelcome \ 03:26:29 hth 03:26:37 `` echo "nobody knows everything" | rainwords 03:26:42 ​nobody knows everything 03:27:19 Dear god 03:27:36 Destructable, hackego is real linux, and it is normal to play around with him. or just chat lol 03:27:42 we dont need more afkers 03:27:57 there are at least 100 03:27:57 I'm here 03:28:01 The fact that you do it doesn't mean that it's normal. 03:28:01 I'm just confuse 03:28:09 My god... 03:28:16 I was just browsing Bearing's twitter feed 03:28:19 And... 03:28:19 * oerjan ties shachaf to the lawn chair 03:28:20 Well... 03:28:21 http://bit.ly/1PcrVUU 03:28:27 STAY ON MY LAWN 03:28:28 (Link shortened to hide spoilers) 03:28:38 (Link goes to twitter) 03:28:40 Please don't encourage other people to act as annoyingly as you do. 03:28:45 * shachaf = maximum hater 03:28:50 hppavilion[1]: why would you be browsing twitter anyway? 03:29:10 -!- Destructible has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:29:10 Elronnd: Because I figured he might have funny tweets? 03:29:28 its no-where near as fun as surfing pastebin for 'roblox cheats' just to laugh at the scams 03:29:56 or surfing it for anything else in that matter 03:31:32 -!- Destructible has joined. 03:31:36 wb 03:31:46 oerjan: You may want to look into that 03:31:58 -!- Destructible has quit (Client Quit). 03:32:16 bad internet iguess 03:32:19 His twitter name is even spelled the same way 03:33:18 Then again, I suppose it's likely the one who visits us was just a copyleopard 03:34:56 bbl 03:37:00 `hogue bin/5quote 03:37:10 mkx bin/5quote//quote;quote;quote;quote;quote; 03:38:24 `hogue bin/mkcmd 03:38:28 mkx bin/mkcmd//chmod +x "$1" && echo "$1" \ ` mv mkcmd bin/mkcmd 03:39:30 -!- moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:39:47 [wiki] [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47128&oldid=47123 * Oerjan * (+300) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Jacek Michalak|Jacek Michalak]] ([[User talk:Jacek Michalak|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Oerjan|Oerjan]] 03:40:34 `le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1 03:40:38 Learned «shavention» 03:40:46 At least Erlang/Elixir has a mutability model. I'm not sure if I actually like it though. 03:40:54 `sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ 03:41:01 wisdom/shavention//shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them. 03:41:10 -!- moon_ has joined. 03:41:12 bck 03:41:17 Were there other useful shaventions? 03:43:06 hppavilion[1]: i have no idea why you think i would like that kind of twitter accounts. 03:43:34 oerjan: I don't think you'd like it 03:43:40 oerjan: But the user is named Hagbard 03:44:16 oerjan: Specifically, I had no opinion on whether or not you'd approve of the account's content; I only checked what the account was about after posting it 03:44:32 `? h4gb4rd 03:44:34 h4gb4rd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:45:11 [wiki] [[Ziim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47129&oldid=47124 * Oerjan * (-42) /* Interpreter */ fix link 03:46:18 `? Elronnd 03:46:20 Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something. 03:46:32 `` cat bin/\? 03:46:34 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | 03:47:46 `` bat bin/rnooooooodl 03:47:48 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: bat: command not found 03:47:52 `` cat bin/rnooooooodl 03:47:53 cat: bin/rnooooooodl: No such file or directory 03:48:00 `` which rnooooooodl 03:48:00 No output. 03:48:25 oerjan: we've got another one hth 03:49:21 lol 03:49:29 [wiki] [[YABALL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47130&oldid=47125 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template 03:49:31 `` cat bin/\? 03:49:34 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | 03:49:39 `` cat bin/\? 03:49:40 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoooodl 03:50:25 -!- moon_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:52:05 *sigh* wayback _really_ should get better at ignoring robots.txt from domain squatters 03:52:36 what are you trying to access? 03:52:47 wayback is also a little bit buggy 03:53:13 [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47131&oldid=47128 * Oerjan * (+26) /* External resources */ Stupid domain squatters, and also stupid wayback 03:53:18 oerjan: wat? 03:53:52 oerjan: I'm sorry, please explain? 03:54:31 oerjan: the fact that it allows googlebot 03:54:32 Is it... former domain squatters put a robots.txt that bans everything, then even after the domain is obtained by proper domain users, Wayback doesn't update the robots.txt data so never saves the page? 03:54:41 means that it might be in google cach 03:54:43 e 03:55:48 Well, I'm going to go sacrifice a human to the great god F'ngaw-t 03:55:51 Bai 03:57:14 hppavilion[1]: apparently Hagbard Celine is a fictional character hth 03:57:37 oerjan: I got a working archive for you 03:57:40 https://archive.is/MTHXE 03:57:52 oerjan: we've got another one hth <-- yay! 03:59:54 hppavilion[1]: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content 04:00:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:00:28 @tell hppavilion[1]: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content 04:00:28 Consider it noted. 04:00:36 @tell oerjan: test 04:00:37 You can tell yourself! 04:01:19 Elronnd: it's not in google cache because i'm looking for an _old_ version of the page. 04:01:37 oerjan: what about the archive.is one 04:01:47 also, it looks like it's not in google cache 04:02:12 at all 04:02:24 Elronnd: brilliant :P 04:03:18 -!- Destructible has joined. 04:03:21 the other page wasn't archived, though 04:03:25 hi again 04:03:53 Elronnd: well the _real_ page went offline a decade ago, so of course google hasn't kept it. 04:04:00 [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47132&oldid=47131 * Elronnd * (-58) fix link 04:04:11 thanks 04:04:33 np 04:04:37 the other link, though 04:04:41 I think may be dead forever 04:05:14 depends. it will probably come back if the site robots.txt ever gets turned into something friendly. 04:05:24 because wayback _has_ it. 04:05:55 and also if wayback actually _implemented_ the tracking of domain changes i recall they once mentioned they wanted to do. 04:07:13 I came up with an idea for an esoteric language, but I'm not sure whether I should make a page for it. 04:09:01 [wiki] [[ZT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47133&oldid=47132 * Oerjan * (+43) /* External resources */ add archive link 04:09:50 -!- ^v has joined. 04:10:00 Destructible: we're pretty inclusive. 04:10:19 mind you, if it's a brainfuck derivative, you might think twice. 04:10:32 oerjan: in my experience authors of bf derivatives tend not to think twice hth 04:10:56 to some degree, it is a bit like brainfuck, but it's not a language that directly emulates brainfuck 04:11:10 it has a tape for memory, and moves up and down the tape 04:12:23 if it has more than half of the actual bf commands, even renamed, then you're pretty deep in hth 04:12:37 no, it does not 04:12:40 good 04:12:55 the move commands alter the numbers beneath it 04:13:29 and it can not change any if it tries to move back to the original position 04:13:59 how it changes any at all, is it pushes the tile it is on to a stack (not it's value, the position) 04:14:15 and then pops it to "teleport" to it 04:15:02 what exactly does hth mean, anyway 04:15:08 `? hth 04:15:10 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 04:15:22 [wiki] [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47134&oldid=47133 * Oerjan * (+4) /* External resources */ italics 04:15:32 `? hth 04:15:33 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 04:17:07 I'm still confused about what hth actually means. Do you just append it to the end of your sentences for fun hth 04:17:46 [wiki] [[COBOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47135&oldid=47122 * Oerjan * (-17) /* External resources */ template and newer capture 04:18:56 hth can only be learned by osmosis, or possibly by someone blabbering. 04:19:30 `? hambiguitous 04:19:30 hambiguitous? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:19:48 ... what if 04:19:53 `? love 04:19:55 love? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:20:05 poor hackego 04:20:24 `le/rn hambiguitous/We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth. 04:20:29 Learned «hambiguitous» 04:21:07 `? hambiguitous 04:21:09 We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth. 04:21:17 can i teach it one? 04:21:46 it is possible 04:22:06 `? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:22:08 ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:22:30 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:22:32 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:22:40 but first, you have to get into the right spirit. 04:23:05 `? ? °°°°°° is a very bad misspelling of 04:23:07 ​? °°°°°° is a very bad misspelling of? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:23:47 `? misspellings of croissant 04:23:49 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:24:13 `le/rn love/Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more 04:24:16 Learned «love» 04:24:23 I had to 04:24:28 sorry 04:24:35 you're forgiven 04:24:43 i don't forgive you 04:24:49 by me, ... right. 04:24:54 shachaf: i was getting to that part 04:25:24 the more he bleeds, the more he lives / he never forgets and he never forgives 04:25:30 `? floccinaucinihilipilification 04:25:32 floccinaucinihilipilification? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:25:39 shachaf: is that one of those awkward riddles 04:25:46 no, it's a lyric 04:26:14 https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/stephen-sondheim/the-ballad-of-sweeney-todd-26 hth 04:26:29 `? supercalifragilisticexpialidocious 04:26:30 supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:26:43 i thought we had that one. 04:26:58 `` ls wisdom/*istic* 04:27:01 wisdom/supercalifragilisticexponential growth 04:27:08 `? supercalifragilisticexponential growth 04:27:09 Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust. 04:27:25 shachaf: `wisdom takes ... hm is it a glob or a regex 04:27:29 -!- navigaid has joined. 04:27:29 le/rn floccinaucinihilipilification/n. The act or habit of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of having no value or being worthless. 04:27:33 `wisdom .uperc 04:27:36 ​//cat: : No such file or directory 04:27:53 Destructible: um we prefer having the key in the result. 04:28:09 Well, I'd prefer not having that wisdom entry at all. 04:28:16 It's the same as what you'd find in any dictionary. 04:28:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:28:19 What's the point? 04:28:29 `learn floccinaucinihilipilification n. The act or habit 04:28:29 of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of 04:28:29 having no value or being worthless. 04:28:33 Learned 'floccinaucinihilipilification': floccinaucinihilipilification n. The act or habit 04:28:38 *sigh* 04:28:46 I'll be back 04:28:49 why can't irssi line joining be reliable. 04:28:49 -!- Destructible has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:28:57 `forget floccinaucinihilipilification 04:28:59 Forget what? 04:29:00 Oh, bad timing. 04:29:07 or not. 04:29:25 The Ballad of Sweeney Todd is great. 04:29:51 `wisdom ?uper 04:29:53 superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!! 04:29:54 freely flows the blood of those who moralize 04:30:03 seems to be a glob 04:30:11 oerjan: you implemented it hth 04:30:19 `cat bin/wisdom 04:30:20 F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}//" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl 04:32:42 shachaf: i don't see what that has to do with remembering its format 04:33:03 Well, think to yourself: Would you have bothered implementing regex matching? 04:33:15 if it had been easier, yes. 04:33:35 and i'd thought of how to do it first. 04:34:11 Wait, now I can't remember whether you or I implemented this. 04:34:14 `` wisdom nooodl 04:34:17 noooodl//noooooooooooooooooooooooodl is the correct spelling 04:34:21 `` hogue bin/wisdom | sport 04:34:28 1/4: ` sed -i \'s#/"#//"#\' bin/wisdom \ mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooooodl; cat "$F" | rnooooodl \ mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*""$(echo "$1" | lowercase)""*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | 04:34:46 I guess it was you. 04:35:04 it rings a bell. 04:35:35 Oops, should've `1-ed. 04:36:00 what 04:36:05 `cat bin/1 04:36:06 ​\` "$@" | sport 04:37:20 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:39:05 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:41:17 fizzie: fungone 04:41:30 fizziegontoo 04:41:39 -!- MDead has joined. 04:41:57 eek, a dead dude 04:42:25 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:42:26 `? pooodl 04:42:28 pooodl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:42:34 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 04:42:35 `? pooodl 04:42:37 pooodl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:42:56 i don't think it applies rnooodl on input, shachaf 04:43:04 . o O ( at least i hope so ) 04:43:18 It tries to apply the inverse on input. 04:43:19 `cat bin/? 04:43:20 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; 04:43:30 aha 04:43:32 But I was hoping it applies it on output before printing that ridiculous Unicode face. 04:44:08 lynn: have you considered moving to new england 04:44:14 have I created a meme? 04:44:15 lynn: and changing your name to yankee noodl 04:44:18 `cat bin/\? 04:44:20 cat: bin/\?: No such file or directory 04:44:31 Elronnd: you? 04:44:32 lynn: yankee nooodl 04:44:54 oerjan: I was the first to 04:45:04 `` cat bin/\? 04:45:05 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnoooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | 04:45:07 lynn: In fact, move to Connecticut. 04:45:10 FireFly: You too. 04:45:20 wait 04:45:22 lynn 04:45:26 you hang around this channel too? 04:45:30 hey lynn 04:45:33 Elronnd: i didn't use `` so it doesn't apply 04:45:45 no? 04:45:48 I see identical output 04:46:16 that's like saying "I went to https://youtu.be/something instead of https://youtube.com/watch?v=something, so I watched a different video" 04:46:22 Elronnd: look closer 04:46:35 `cat bin/? 04:46:36 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; 04:46:50 `` cat bin/\? 04:46:52 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoo 04:47:05 whoooah 04:47:08 whaaaat? 04:47:10 `ls bin 04:47:12 ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ 04:47:25 `` cat bin/\/ 04:47:26 cat: bin//: Is a directory 04:47:34 `` cat bin/\\ 04:47:36 cat: bin/\: No such file or directory 04:48:19 `` echo ooodles of nooodls 04:48:20 ooooooooodles of nooooooooodls 04:48:36 `echo ooodles of nooodls 04:48:37 ooodles of nooodls 04:48:58 * oerjan helpful 04:49:11 `` echo '\e[33mfoo' 04:49:12 ​\e[33mfoo 04:49:15 `run echo ooodles of nooodls 04:49:16 -!- navigaid has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:49:17 ooodles of nooodls 04:49:25 how do you show colours? 04:49:36 `` echo -e '\e[33mfoo' 04:49:38 ​[33mfoo 04:49:55 ``echo 'this has\x034colour' 04:49:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found 04:50:02 `` echo 'this has\x034colour' 04:50:04 this has\x034colour 04:50:08 `` echo -e 'this has\x034colour' 04:50:09 this hascolour 04:50:19 `` alias echo="echo -e" 04:50:20 No output. 04:50:32 `` echo "\e[33mfoo" 04:50:33 i don't think alias is going to work 04:50:33 ​\e[33mfoo 04:50:40 `` echo $HOME 04:50:40 ​/tmp 04:50:45 there is no persistent shell session 04:50:58 `` echo 'alias echo="echo -e"' > ~/.bashrc 04:50:59 No output. 04:51:05 `` alias echo 04:51:07 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: alias: echo: not found 04:51:10 oh, and /tmp isn't persistent either 04:51:27 `` echo 'alias echo="echo -e"' >> /etc/bashrc 04:51:28 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /etc/bashrc: Permission denied 04:51:38 `` cat /etc/bashrc 04:51:39 cat: /etc/bashrc: No such file or directory 04:51:41 :C 04:52:00 i don't think you should change echo, anyway. 04:52:06 -!- gniourf has joined. 04:52:25 there are already scripts depending on it 04:53:21 actually, echo is a bash builtin isn't it, so you cannot really make it behave differently that way. 04:54:08 Every time you run a command, HackEgo boots up a virtual machine and runs your code in it. 04:54:52 i guess not having $HOME be in the repository part is a security feature. 04:57:50 shachaf: *boots* up a VM? 04:57:53 I doubt that 04:58:17 fsvo boots 04:58:35 I guess the VM doesn't literally pull itself up by its own bootstraps. 05:13:03 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:14:50 -!- coppro has joined. 05:49:09 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I 05:49:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:58:04 -!- dnm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:07:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:23:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:09:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:10:06 `which perl 07:10:55 ​/usr/bin/perl 07:36:50 -!- Destructible has joined. 07:36:59 hello again 07:37:36 anyone? 07:37:43 boo 07:38:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:41:15 Destructible: hi 07:41:27 hi 07:42:13 shachaf: *boots* up a VM? <-- iirc, yes, pretty much. But more of a container kind of. It used User Mode Linux last I checked, which was a couple of years ago 07:42:22 -!- Destructible has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:42:26 So it is not like starting vmware 07:43:15 Horpal 07:43:27 `? Vorpal 07:43:29 Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea. 07:43:47 :( 07:43:53 I don't agree. 07:43:58 Well, I agree that I have no idea. 07:44:06 `hogue wisdom/vorpal 07:44:35 revert \ run rm -rf wisdom \ revert 0 \ run rm -rf wisdom/* \ Initial import. 07:45:19 Vorpal: Why does it say you're boring? 07:45:45 Ant mill :) 07:45:47 because he's not vorpal kick'asso maybe 07:45:55 @massages-load 07:45:55 oerjan said 3h 45m 27s ago: no, the page has been saved before, but the problem is that it _starts_ obeying the robots.txt of the squatters even for old content 07:46:13 `learn Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones. 07:46:19 oerjan: Oh, that's pretty stupid. 07:46:22 Relearned 'vorpal': Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones. 07:46:25 Vorpal: Oh, is that true? 07:46:28 I'm pretty sure robots.txts are not retroactive 07:46:30 You should talk about it in #trains. 07:46:42 shachaf: OH MY GOD 07:46:46 shachaf: THERE'S A #TRAINS!? 07:47:15 i can neither confirm nor deny the existence of #trains 07:47:42 hppavilion[1]: well the original intention was probably to allow someone to hide files that were exposed by accident. 07:47:53 Vorpal: Why does it say you're boring? <-- Ask ehird? 07:48:00 but then there was the original complication that owners of sites change. 07:48:06 *additional 07:48:10 stupid fingers 07:48:19 ehird hasn't been here for a long time. 07:48:24 At least by a nick that I recognize. 07:48:34 oerjan: That's kind of a stupid rule though. Squatters fucking things up is MUCH more likely than accidentally exposing a file that is THAT dangerous but completely unprotected otherwise 07:48:42 oerjan: well yes, my day to day job is boring unless you find hard real time cool (which I do) 07:48:48 shachaf: ehird? Any relation to h4gb4rd? 07:48:57 I should hope not. 07:49:19 Wait, don't /all/ programmers mostly work on boring machines? 07:49:27 shachaf: I write control software for really big mining machines. Autonomous ones. Drills holes that you put explosives in (for open pit mines) 07:49:51 Oh, not tunnel boring machines? 07:49:55 Nope 07:50:14 drilling is boring hth 07:50:16 The largest model weighs 200 metric tons. 07:50:34 Top speed of 5 km/h. 22 meters long, 30 meter high tower 07:50:42 bagger 288 bagger bagger 288 07:50:48 See, those are the kinds of facts that I bet #trains would enjoy. 07:50:54 Though I might be wrong. 07:51:16 hppavilion[1]: ehird's relation to hagb4rd is that he was probably the first to ban him hth 07:51:31 also, ehird = elliott 07:51:43 https://youtu.be/azEvfD4C6ow 07:51:46 Oooooooooooh that makes more sense 07:51:55 shachaf: these appear to be the electric version (see the massive cable?): http://www.coaleducation.org/technology/Surface/images/PV351-2.jpg 07:52:27 That is 1.5 kV 3-phase, and I forget how many amps. But quite a few 07:53:32 shachaf: also what is #trains about? 07:53:37 Trains I presume 07:53:42 but why did you mention it now? 07:54:16 It's about trains but I think they've talked about boring machines before. 07:55:07 right 07:55:13 I find trains pretty boring 07:55:38 semaphores are neat 07:56:20 oh yeah, I played OpenTTD, those were fun to mess with 07:56:42 Oh, train semaphores. 07:56:48 btw, wasn't it fizzie that proved OpenTTD to be turing complete? 07:56:55 or at least universal logic 07:57:26 http://zem.fi/2005-10-21-ttd-logic ? 07:57:32 ah yeah 07:57:46 so not tc then 07:58:00 more like TG 07:58:03 as in too good 07:58:12 Actually I have no idea, I never played OpenTTD. 07:58:16 I did play Factorio, though. 07:59:30 ooh, I haven't. It looks interesting though 07:59:39 Turing Compete 07:59:48 heh 07:59:50 i'd love factorio for android 08:00:08 myname: I'd love an android that could play factorio 08:00:22 myname: would the interface work though? it seems you need to click a lot of small things. Also the performance once the factory gets massive? 08:00:33 `? h4gb4rd 08:00:37 h4gb4rd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:00:45 Wait, I think shachaf `?d h4gb4rd earlier today 08:01:01 hppavilion[1]: eh I think it might work on a recent high end tablet. On a phone the interface would suck though 08:01:05 Oh, well, you wouldn't want to run the same read-only command twice. That would be botspam. 08:02:14 `learn h4gb4rd is a Scandinavian criminal currently serving tau consecutive life sentences at a yottamax prison buried beneath 4chan. 08:02:20 Learned 'h4gb4rd': h4gb4rd is a Scandinavian criminal currently serving tau consecutive life sentences at a yottamax prison buried beneath 4chan. 08:03:03 You should take a wisdom entry course from oerjan. 08:03:29 `? shachar 08:03:30 `? shachaf 08:03:32 shachar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:03:36 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him. 08:03:44 shachaf: Why? 08:03:47 Factorio even supports multiplayer. It's great. 08:03:58 (What's the inverse of `culprits, BTW?) 08:04:08 Because your wisdom entries would be improveed. 08:04:13 s/ee/e/ 08:04:23 my back tick key is stuck... it doesn't go down 08:04:24 wtf 08:04:29 :C 08:04:34 copy-paste it? 08:04:49 Vorpal: here, ^C: ` 08:05:20 I'll better remove the cap and check the mechanism below. the mechanism is complicated on this laptop though iirc 08:05:54 Do you ever find an xkcd and think "how could explainxkcd possibly say anything about this?" 08:05:59 e.g. http://xkcd.com/34/ 08:07:06 aha, a bit of hard material under the scissor mechanism ´´´``` 08:07:44 You've fixed it? 08:07:51 yes 08:08:24 `ǹicé´ 08:08:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ǹicé´: not found 08:08:26 shachaf: pried the debris out with a needle, since I couldn't remove the mechanism itself due to the way it was stuck by the debris 08:08:33 Oops. 08:08:47 hppavilion[1]: now you made me check explainxkcd for that one 08:08:51 How many debris were there? 08:10:06 Hm what is the singular of debris? 08:10:18 I guess it is uncountable 08:10:19 debri 08:10:35 debris floating in de breeze 08:10:45 My spell checker doesn't like debri at least 08:10:51 Yes, I made it up. 08:12:37 oerjan: is your good twin's full name professørjan 08:12:51 Hm anyone used hg-git? I don't want to learn git but I want to fork a project on github. I could fork it over to bitbucket, but then it would be harder to discover for other people looking if someone fixed this thing or not 08:13:21 And the original project appears to be somewhere between maintenance mode and straight up dead 08:14:07 I suspect learning git is easier than figuring out hg-git 08:14:11 <\oren\> debrises 08:14:53 shachaf: probably :( 08:15:03 <\oren\> git is a mystery inside an enigma, wrapped in a horrible user interface 08:15:05 shachaf: is there any good GUI for git? 08:15:22 <\oren\> there isn't even a good CLI for git 08:15:23 I'm not sure. 08:15:26 I would say that for learning a new version control system, something like TortoiseHg is great 08:15:35 There's some Tcl/Tk GUI but I don't know if it's good. 08:15:38 so something similar for git would be useful 08:15:53 Hmm, GitHub wrote a GUI for Windows, if you use Windows and GitHub. 08:16:08 Ah, https://git-scm.com/download/gui/linux 08:16:13 <\oren\> and it is awful 08:16:57 I just use the command line. 08:17:08 <\oren\> basically the only way to solve most problems is to copy the files you changed, redownload the repository, and then copy them back 08:17:30 shachaf: linux user here 08:17:41 \oren\: Are you talking about GitHub's GUI? 08:17:46 Or the Tk GUI? 08:17:59 shachaf: The UNIVERSE GUI hth 08:18:50 <\oren\> shachaf: the one from github. I used it a lot for my video game course's final project 08:20:25 Just use the command line tool. 08:20:43 I don't know why people say that git is so complicated. 08:20:47 <\oren\> it makes it easy to create various states that are "broken" and can't be fixed without either complex command line screwery, or by doing what I just said 08:21:10 I mean, the commands are unintuitive sometimes, but as long as you know what state you're in and what state you want to be in, you can usually figure out what to do. 08:21:14 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:21:39 <\oren\> shachaf: the issue is that there are far more states than in other VCS's 08:21:48 And it's almost impossible to accidentally lose data (once you've committed it) or get into a state that you can't recover from. 08:21:51 There's always the reflog. 08:21:53 shachaf: no hth 08:23:00 \oren\: I made some pretty embarrassing git mistakes in the past. 08:23:38 But you just need to get a reasonable mental model of what the commit graph looks like. 08:24:00 I think it's pretty similar to hg but I haven't used hg very much. 08:27:01 <\oren\> in particular git could do without the entire concept of stashing 08:27:01 `learn The English, the English, the English are best; / I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest. 08:27:42 I think stashing is pretty useful. 08:27:51 <\oren\> and staging 08:27:55 But if you don't like it you don't have to use it. 08:28:12 <\oren\> shachaf: that's not what I've experienced 08:28:27 Stashing? That's an entirely local thing. 08:28:35 Don't run "git stash" and you don't have to deal with stashes. 08:28:57 I mean, the commands are unintuitive sometimes, but as long as you know what state you're in and what state you want to be in, you can usually figure out what to do. <-- I'm used to using hg. Used it for ages. 08:29:12 From my understanding branches in git are quite different than branches in mercurial though? 08:29:38 Maybe. What are branches in Mercurial? 08:30:22 <\oren\> staging could be entirely done away with. it has no purpose it seems, other than to increase the number of states my working copy can be in 08:31:01 <\oren\> this goes for svn too 08:31:42 each commit belongs to a branch. You can at any point create a new branch from a given commit, by specifying a new branch name in the commit. You can only push (ignoring --force) if each named branch only has one head. Otherwise you have to merge in that branch so that you only have one head. 08:32:04 If you want more than one head, use a named branch 08:32:30 It looks like a git branch is roughly equivalent to an hg bookmark? 08:32:50 Hm, I haven't used hg bookmarks. Not directly at least 08:33:07 I think mq uses them internally. It is like an easily movable tag? 08:33:17 I think so. 08:33:32 Does an hg commit (if there is such a thing) "belong" to a branch in some sense? 08:33:46 shachaf: Does a puddle "belong" to the rain? 08:33:54 In git you just have a graph of commits, where each commit beyond the first has one or more parents. 08:34:07 A branch is just a file that has a commit hash in it. 08:34:10 * hppavilion[1] is a wise Jewddhist master 08:34:20 shachaf: and having multiple heads is okay and won't cause complaints when you push? 08:34:28 What are multiple heads? 08:34:39 "Bookmarks can be used as an alternative to NamedBranches for tracking multiple lines of development. Systems like Mercurial, CVS, and Subversion store their branch information as a permanent part of each commit. This is useful for future auditing of long-lived branches, as it's always possible to identify which branch a commit was introduced on. Git, by contrast, has "branches" that are not stored in h 08:34:39 istory, which is useful for working with numerous short-lived feature branches, but makes future auditing impossible. Mercurial's bookmark feature is analogous to Git's branching scheme, but can also be used in conjunction with Mercurial's traditional named branches." 08:34:45 okay, makes sense 08:35:01 shachaf: a head is a commit with no children. The tip of the history. 08:35:37 When you `git gc`, all the commits that aren't reachable via branches (or tags, which are effectively immutable branches) are deleted. 08:35:37 You can end up with multiple heads, which you then either merge or rebase. 08:35:45 heh 08:35:56 how weird 08:36:02 so it just strips part of the history 08:36:12 shachaf: you can't move a tag in git? 08:36:13 Well, it's not the history of anything that you care about. 08:36:24 It's a faux pas. 08:36:39 You can in hg, since the tags are just a bunch of revision IDs and names in a file .hgtags in the root of the repo 08:36:49 Just append a new line overriding the old tag 08:36:56 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 08:37:11 I understand what a head is, but what do you mean by multiple heads? 08:38:14 shachaf: well if you have more than one commit that has no children, in the same named branch, you don't have a clear "most recent" tip in that branch. Okay? 08:38:24 Oh, I see. 08:38:29 In git a branch is just a head, I guess. 08:38:50 I guess in git the gc command would get rid of it? 08:38:54 (Well, it might have children, but they're not visible from the branch.) 08:38:58 which sounds dangerous 08:39:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:39:31 A GC should never delete anything that you care about, because you can just keep a GC root referring to it. 08:39:52 right. but that sounds complicated 08:40:07 I don't know how you'd end up in that situation, really. 08:40:07 When would you end up with stuff you don't care about anyway 08:40:21 Well, maybe you rewrote history to squash some commits together. 08:40:36 Or maybe you deleted a branch. The contents of the branch are still available until you GC. 08:40:43 shachaf: I assume you can't rewrite history you already pushed? 08:40:55 Or delete a branch that is pushed 08:41:26 Well, you can do whatever you want, but you generally shouldn't push changes to a remote branch that aren't descendants of it. 08:41:42 You can delete a branch that you pushed. You can always recreate it by getting the remote branch. 08:41:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 08:41:49 In hg each commit has a phase: secret, draft, public. As soon as you push (or someone pulls from you) the commit is set to public. You can force change it back to draft, but that is a faux pas that could lead to all sorts of headaches down the line. 08:42:11 You can only perform history editing on draft commits. Oh and secret commits are excluded from being pushed or pulled 08:42:20 otherwise secret and draft are the same 08:42:24 commits default to draft 08:42:48 A git branch is literally implemented as a file: A branch foo is a file .git/refs/heads/foo containing a sha1 hash. 08:42:56 Hm 08:43:10 I guess there's no equivalent state to keep track of for whether a branch has been pushed or not. 08:43:12 Can't say I know how hg implements all that stuff. Don't need to deal with it normally 08:43:27 Hm 08:43:36 Well, if you prefer, "branches" are just a key-value map : String -> SHA1 08:44:18 If you try to push something to a remote branch that isn't a descendant, you'll get an error if you don't force-push. 08:44:53 Fair enough 08:45:22 still it seems that git and hg have quite different models. Resulting in very different idiomatic ways to use them 08:45:37 That sounds a bit more plausible now. 08:45:49 yeah 08:47:43 shachaf: is there anything like MQ in git? It is basically a version controlled way to have local commits that you work on, and update. Possibly merging several of them, reordering and so on 08:47:59 But the great thing is that you version control the "patch queue" as it is called 08:48:14 Meaning you can go back to an earlier state of your local unpushed commits 08:48:14 "MQ is rarely needed for new Mercurial users. If you're used to it and you like it, by all means, keep using it. But if you are learning Mercurial, instead use modern tools, such as hg rebase, hg histedit, hg graft, hg strip, hg strip --keep, and hg commit --amend. Check the documentation for each of these commands." 08:48:25 Those "modern tools" sound very similar to git tools. 08:48:33 For example git rebase and git commit --amend 08:48:46 shachaf: yeah I know, but I like that MQ allows me to version control my history editing. I don't think the more modern tools do 08:49:17 Well, you can always keep a branch referring to your pre-history-rewriting commit. 08:49:24 But I guess that's more manual than you like. 08:50:07 well mq is semi-manual. You have to remember to commit the current state of the queue. But other than that, it takes care of itself until you need to revert it, at which point it is a bit of work (but hopefully that is rare) 08:50:07 So there's the git reflog, which just keeps track of the states that a branch has been in. 08:50:14 ah neat 08:50:41 That's not an explicit commit, but you can ask "what commit was this branch pointing to X operations ago or at time Y". 08:50:46 shachaf: but I guess gc messes that up? 08:51:01 Those aren't GC roots so they might get collected, yes. 08:51:15 You can turn off GC if you like. 08:51:21 Normally it only deletes things over 30 days old, I think. 08:51:43 Hm, when you strip something in mercurial, it saves a bundle with all the commits you stripped in .hg/strip-backup or something like that 08:51:56 You could manually clean it, but it would never be auto-collected 08:52:30 `? hagb4rd 08:52:33 hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. 08:52:36 But that is a non-issue, since stripping commits is a rare operation 08:53:00 Oh, you can disable GC for a particular branch's reflog. 08:53:30 I don't think this is intended for quite the same thing that you're thinking of using it for, but it could work, I guess. 08:53:31 well having it automatically "commit" on each operation is neat, I'll agree 08:53:33 `culprits wisdom/hagb4rd 08:54:18 int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull Taneb 08:54:26 shachaf: basically I use mq at work when working on a large feature, it allows me to work all over the place and split the stuff into logical commits for each sub-feature or part touched. 08:54:33 `` ln -sf hagb4rd wisdom/h4gb4rd 08:54:42 shachaf: :( 08:54:52 oh 08:55:12 No output. 08:55:20 `? h4gb4rd 08:55:21 hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. 08:55:24 You can revert if you like. 08:55:32 I didn't like the other entry very much. 08:55:40 no, i thought you'd done it the wrong way. 08:56:13 anyway. 08:56:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite). 08:56:53 shachaf: what about hg record? Allows you to select which part of a file to include in a commit. Basically asks for each "section" of the diff 08:57:10 useful if you realise you want to do something in two commits 08:57:10 git add -p, I think. 08:57:25 Or git commit -p 08:57:30 Or soemthing. 08:58:31 shachaf: how do I list outgoing/incoming changes before I push/pull so that I can check that I don't have stuff I'm pushing/pulling that I didn't intend to 08:59:21 hg out basically lists what would be pushed, if you were to push. Same for hg in and pulling 08:59:26 git pull does two things: git fetch, which fetches a remote repository's branches, and then git merge of the remote branch into the local branch. 08:59:50 You can do it manually. git fetch, and then (say you're on the branch master) you have the remote branch at origin/master and the local branch at master. 08:59:55 Then you can do whatever you want. 09:00:12 shachaf: so no way to see what git fetch would fetch without actually adding it to your local repo? 09:00:20 This is especially useful when pushing 09:00:23 Well, it doesn't modify your local branches. 09:00:30 okay sure 09:00:31 It just modifies your snapshot of the remote repository. 09:00:37 But the pushing case is more interesting anyway 09:00:55 I want to make sure I don't push, a commit "LOCAL: ADD DEBUG PRINTS" or something by mistake 09:01:04 Well, you can git fetch and then do whatever you want. 09:01:08 Hm 09:01:17 Examine your local master and origin/master, see the differences, etc. 09:01:22 And then push when you're happy. 09:01:33 Oh so fetching results in you getting an extra branch that represents the remote repo? 09:01:37 I guess that would work 09:01:52 Right. Well, you get a bunch of branches corresponding to the remote branches. 09:02:19 also that is a weird way to do it. So branches are local to the repository? 09:02:23 How strange 09:02:26 And the local branch you're pushing is presumably a descendant of a remote branch. 09:02:49 Yes, a branch is just a name for a commit. 09:03:10 Often you have a local branch that tracks a remote branch, but you can have private branches etc., no problem. 09:03:39 hm and I guess you can push a branch to the remote side, otherwise you couldn't create new branches on, say, github 09:03:48 Right. 09:05:47 It's a very simple model. If anything it's maybe too simple, so maybe sometimes you need to do strange things to get to the state that you want. 09:07:25 right 09:07:48 To me it seems hg's branch model is more sensible. And git's branch model, like hg bookmarks seems mostly pointless 09:08:06 I guess I should use hg sometime to figure out whether that's true. 09:08:55 @google hg branches vs git branches 09:08:55 https://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/mercurial-vs-git-its-all-in-the-branches/ 09:09:03 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:09:10 -!- clog has joined. 09:09:51 hm, https://felipec.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/no-mercurial-branches-are-still-not-better-than-git-ones-response-to-jhws-more-on-mercurial-vs-git-with-graphs/ 09:10:01 shachaf: also mercurial has a really kick ass GUI. TortoiseHg is *really* good 09:10:21 and of course opinions will differ 09:11:01 Of course. 09:12:19 "Repository structure: Mercurial doesn’t allow octopus merges (with more than two parents), nor tagging non-commit objects. 09:12:19 " 09:12:29 Whaaat? How do you merge with more than 2 parents? 09:12:37 That seems... terribly complicated? 09:12:45 I don't know that I've ever done it. 09:12:50 Most merge tools are 3-way 09:13:26 shachaf: I assume git supports external GUI merge tools? 09:13:38 Probably? 09:13:39 I personally use BeyondCompare (not open, nor free, but really really good) 09:13:47 http://www.gitguys.com/topics/merging-with-a-gui/ 09:14:46 Anyway a merge with more than two parents seems like it might be complicated to actually do, but what it is doesn't seem very complicated. 09:15:39 "Mercurial uses rename tracking, while Git uses rename detection to deal with file renames 09:15:39 " 09:15:46 shachaf: agreed 09:15:56 anyway what does it mean with rename detection? 09:16:07 I don't think there's an explicit notion of a file being renamed. 09:16:11 It doesn't track in the commit that a rename was from a specific file to another? 09:16:17 It's just a deletion and a creation. 09:16:35 A git commit is roughly just a snapshot of a directory tree. 09:16:38 That seems like it is a loss of useful information when doing merges with conflicts? 09:16:43 I guess that's different from hg. 09:16:48 Maybe it is, I don't know. 09:17:03 if someone moved the file I did changes in, how does it figure out to apply my changes to that other file instead 09:17:13 With rename detection, I guess? 09:17:33 Hm 09:17:45 seems more brittle if a lot of things changed in the file as well 09:17:51 It probably is. 09:17:55 or many files were renamed in the same commit 09:18:00 I've had issues with that occasionally. 09:18:42 But a git commit isn't a diff from the previous commit. It's just a snapshot of a tree. 09:18:53 There are one or more parent pointers, which you can use to compute a diff. 09:19:07 Ah 09:19:15 I guess a hg commit *is* a diff 09:19:27 internally I don't know if it is or not though 09:19:44 Well, it keeps track of rename information one way or another. 09:21:46 Anyway, now that you learned all these details, you'll have to try git out. 09:25:15 I don't understand why you would want to have more than one head in a branch. 09:25:44 I guess you just have different notion of what a branch is in hg. 09:26:09 All the work that goes into a feature, or something like that. You can put all your commits and things in it, and eventually clean it up when you want to merge/push. 09:28:51 I don't understand why you would want to have more than one head in a branch. <-- you don't. It is a temporary state after you pulled remote changes but before you rebased or merged 09:29:12 OK. 09:29:27 So it sounds like an equivalent of git's origin/foo in that case. 09:29:34 Where origin is the repository you fetched from. 09:30:47 shachaf: a branch in hg might be the work a different team is working on. It is for big changes. And it is for a release with only bug fixes (as opposed to "default" in hg / "master" in git) 09:31:14 it is usually not for something short lived 09:31:25 -!- Destructible has joined. 09:31:31 `? love 09:31:34 Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more 09:31:55 hello 09:32:11 anyone 09:32:20 -!- Destructible has quit (Client Quit). 09:33:16 Vorpal: What do you do for something short-lived? 09:34:01 shachaf: Usually just having multiple heads, then merging it and pushing it. 09:34:12 OK. 09:34:22 Often I have a bunch of branches in my repository for various work I've done. 09:34:34 As I finish it I merge/rebase them onto master and push. 09:34:42 Is there an equivalent to that sort of thing? 09:34:56 I usually don't work that way. I normally work on one or two things at a time. I guess for you there could be bookmarks then? 09:35:14 Also you can have multiple MQ queues, but again I rarely use that 09:35:31 I don't think I ever used more than one MQ queue 09:35:46 OK. 09:35:54 Also at work I use Phabricator which has a completely different workflow. 09:36:07 It was developed at Facebook, which uses hg, so presumably there's a way to make it work there. 09:36:12 -!- Destructible has joined. 09:36:21 ?` people 09:36:21 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 09:36:31 `? people 09:36:33 people? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:36:40 `? sanity 09:36:41 sanity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:36:47 `? life 09:36:49 life? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:37:04 `? brainfuck 09:37:07 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array 09:37:23 Please keep your read-only bot queries to /msg unless they're relevant to other people. 09:37:35 oh 09:37:40 shachaf: huh never heard of that one 09:37:55 phabricator that is 09:37:58 How do you do code review? 09:37:59 either way I did not know about /msg 09:38:20 Now you know. 09:38:40 -!- dnm has joined. 09:38:54 *some gimmick about knowing things and a positive thing being related* 09:39:21 so, anyway I reckon I'll add a page for my language idea, however 09:39:35 I'm going to post it on the ideas page, but 09:39:54 I'm not sure whether it would count as a derivative of brainfuck 09:41:13 Destructible: Good rule of thumb: If it could conceivably be a brainfuck derivative, don't even talk about it 09:41:29 but... 09:41:34 Destructible: Pretend that you never thought of it and step twice in the river of lice to atone for your sins 09:41:39 no 09:41:54 Destructible: I discussed this the other day 09:41:59 >>> sin(brainfuck_derivatives) 09:42:01 True 09:42:18 ok, I guess I'll just not post it as a derivative 09:42:29 Destructible: That's even worse 09:42:33 it features a tape of memory 09:42:36 and a pointer 09:42:39 How do you do code review? <-- at work? Part of the web software we use on our servers with hg and bug management and all that. 09:42:41 Destructible: Non-attribution is a heinous crime in this case 09:42:46 that is how it is similar 09:42:55 pretty much it 09:42:56 Destructible: And how is it different? 09:43:01 Which software? 09:43:02 shachaf: not phabricator though, different one 09:43:04 it has a stack 09:43:08 for one thing 09:43:09 Destructible: And? 09:43:20 bits instead of bytes 09:43:35 manipulating data happens with moving, instead of a seperate command 09:43:45 shachaf: Called FogBugz. I have never used any other proprietary one. It is okay I guess. 09:43:54 Oh, that one. 09:44:00 You know of it? Okay 09:44:10 Is this Kiln? 09:44:14 Yes 09:44:19 I think the review part is some add on though, not the standard kiln one 09:45:52 the main feature of the program is the fact that the only way to change any values not in a straight line (because if you move back to a previous point, all the bits return to previous value) is ) 09:46:09 (sorry about unclosed paren) 09:46:33 Code review is TG 09:46:41 to use the teleport function, which pops the top value of the stack and transports the pointer to that spot 09:46:44 shachaf: ? 09:46:47 too good 09:46:50 ah 09:46:55 I don't like GitHub's implementation of it via pull requests very much. 09:47:09 shachaf: oh? I should probably learn how those works btw 09:47:20 Which is a shame because so many projects use GitHub now. 09:47:47 I've historically refused to use pull requests. 09:47:50 shachaf: anyway, how did you come into contact with Kiln? 09:47:51 I just send people patches. 09:48:05 I never used it. 09:48:12 I think I read about it at hginit.com. 09:48:15 Ah 09:48:38 Which is half Kiln advertisement half hg tutorial. 09:48:55 the problem with a patch it might not be obvious where in the history it applies. And even if you figure it out you have to rebase/merge. Mostly an issue in a highly active project 09:51:03 Yes. 09:54:31 zeugmas must be a massive pain in the ass for translators 09:55:46 hppavilion[1]: why? 09:56:01 Vorpal: Because how do you translate such a thing? 09:56:05 I'll be back 09:56:09 -!- Destructible has quit (Quit: Page closed). 09:56:13 It loses impactfulness when you use different words 09:56:27 It's probably even worse for autotranslaton 09:56:31 *autotranslation 09:56:35 In fact, I'll test it now 09:57:46 ...Huh 09:57:49 It still makes some sense 09:58:40 It didn't change the key word, I guess 09:59:24 hppavilion[1]: why does it do that? You assumed I know what that language is? 09:59:48 I assume "zeugmas" is a language? Or is it a specific word? 09:59:49 Vorpal: Wat? 10:00:00 Vorpal: No, "zeugmas" is a linguistic technique 10:00:08 hppavilion[1]: okay, what does it mean then? 10:00:16 It's where a word is used only once, but has different meanings when applied to different parts of the sentence 10:00:18 For example 10:00:27 "You are free to execute your laws, and your citizens, as you see fit" 10:01:00 In this case, "execute your laws" means to enact the laws and "execute your citizens" means to state-sanctionedly kill them 10:01:00 ah 10:01:06 I think people call that zeugma but maybe it would more accurately be called syllepsis. 10:01:46 There's a famous song by Flanders and Swann that uses these things a lot. 10:02:19 It's clever but the subject matter is distasteful. 10:04:11 shachaf: Do you know the title? 10:04:21 Yes. 10:04:33 Ah, Have Some Madeira M'Dear 10:04:40 That was easy 10:05:15 If only there was some way for me to express the ease with which I found that... Some sort of... Button... 10:05:27 `rm bin/lmg 10:05:35 No output. 10:05:41 Too rude. 10:05:52 If it was in nice mode it might be excusable. 10:06:34 shachaf: It could pretty easily be made nice 10:08:06 I wonder why the Wikipedia page for that song says that it's about "seduction" rather than "rape". 10:08:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Have_Some_Madeira_M%27Dear&diff=514192267&oldid=491132795 10:09:00 good edit 10:10:25 shachaf: Probably because it was intended to be about seduction at the time (1967, for cthulhhu's sake), and that was how it would have been interpreted contemporarily; culture has changed by now, I would say for the better if I wasn't too biased to judge, but if 1967 was different, it's more accurate to refer to it in the way 1967-ians would have seen it than how we now see it 10:10:59 Oh, come on. 10:11:04 Have you seen the lyrics? 10:11:30 shachaf: No, actually 10:11:52 shachaf: I got about 20 seconds into the YouTube video before I decided it probably wasn't my taste 10:12:44 zeugmatic or not? 10:12:58 shachaf: Correct? 10:13:19 Well, I'd suggest that you read the lyrics before jumping to defend that edit. 10:13:52 shachaf: That'd probably be best 10:14:04 shachaf: I was just pointing out cultural context 10:14:18 * hppavilion[1] degenerates into a slur of buzzwords 10:15:47 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:16:25 From tvtropes: "Plots, Characters, and Conflict are tropes, and literally no proper story can be told without them (whatever form they take)." 10:16:37 Challenge: Defeat TVTropes 10:17:35 Well, "plot" is just "what happens", so a story without a plot would be one where nothing happened. 10:18:08 shachaf: Yes 10:18:12 Characters are probably not necessary, if that means sentient characters, at least. 10:18:16 shachaf: I think characters is the only one you can really get away with 10:18:16 you can tell a story without conflict though I think. Though making it engaging might be harder 10:18:18 Conflict is probably not necessary. 10:19:00 Keith Johnstone talks about storytelling in his excellent book _Impro: Improvisation and the Theatre_ (and also his other book _Impro for Storytellers_). 10:19:03 But consider things like some gag-a-day comic strips. They might not have conflict all the time. 10:19:11 Sometimes they definitely though 10:19:19 do though* 10:19:37 though I guess you could argue that is not a story as such 10:48:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:02:51 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:05:36 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:07:59 -!- Melvar has joined. 11:17:46 -!- Destructible has joined. 11:17:52 hello 11:17:54 ? 11:18:00 `? rainwords 11:18:40 rainwords? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:19:58 anybody 11:21:01 -!- boily has joined. 11:30:19 Fun, gone. 11:33:35 -!- fungot has joined. 11:33:48 Fun, got. 11:34:53 fungot: fungellot. 11:34:54 boily: so be it. :( syntax-rules is too weak for them. i'm straight because that's what sicp is, eopl isn't. 11:38:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:44:41 hello 11:45:24 did i miss the fun? 11:45:30 :( 11:45:34 `? :( 11:45:51 ​:(? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:48:21 -!- Melvar` has joined. 11:48:31 hi 11:48:43 melvar? 11:48:50 did you join to idle? 11:49:25 damn 11:49:36 Destructibello. 11:49:42 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:50:35 -!- zemhill__ has joined. 11:50:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 11:51:54 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 11:53:07 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 11:53:23 -!- prooftechnique_ has joined. 11:53:33 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:34 -!- zemhill_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:35 -!- Xe has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:35 -!- feliks has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:36 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:36 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:37 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:37 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:53:39 -!- Lord_of_- has joined. 11:55:35 -!- nisstyre has joined. 11:55:47 -!- pelegreno_ has joined. 11:56:12 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:56:14 -!- Xe has joined. 12:00:01 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:00:01 -!- pelegreno has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:00:26 -!- Destructible has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:02:56 -!- feliks has joined. 12:05:30 -!- lambdabot has joined. 12:11:33 -!- clog has joined. 12:14:35 -!- fractal has joined. 12:15:07 -!- gamemanj has joined. 12:22:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NUMISMATIC CHICKEN). 12:55:04 My phone doesn't like being back in Finland. :/ 12:55:12 The one with a Finnish SIM in it, that is. 12:55:38 It's been fine in UK in roaming mode, but now it's all "network not available" when it's back in the operator's own network. 12:56:55 can a comment on github link to an issue in a way that its status is visible? it seems a bit silly to comment on another issue just to get a mention, with status, in one's own. 13:02:51 well, why don't I try #github 13:25:24 fizzie: weird 13:25:32 fizzie: holidays? 13:27:44 -!- dnm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:31:16 Trying to find a library to calculate sunset/sunrise times in erlang. Not hard to implement, but why reinvent the wheel. However googling for this turned out to be surprisingly difficult, due to mostly finding web site telling me when the sun sets in Erlang, China. Which is apparently a place 13:32:45 [wiki] [[BF+BF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47136 * IAM * (+2213) Created page with "'''BF+BF''' is a esoteric programming language that is a combination of Befunge and Brainfuck Extended Type I. I don't have the time to write this fancily, so I'll just includ..." 13:33:32 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47137&oldid=47096 * IAM * (+12) 13:37:42 [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47138&oldid=46850 * IAM * (+13) 13:37:51 [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47139&oldid=47138 * IAM * (+2) 13:38:11 [wiki] [[BF+BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47140&oldid=47136 * IAM * (+13) 13:38:20 [wiki] [[BF+BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47141&oldid=47140 * IAM * (+2) 13:46:34 -!- evalj has joined. 13:47:31 ohi 13:50:38 \oren\: um, it seems some of the newer characters you've added to the font don't show up in http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , as if the font was older than the demo page 13:51:13 \oren\: ah, sorry, they're better now 13:51:15 after I reloaded 13:52:15 \oren\: oh nice, you've added some of the rarer CJK repetition markers 14:03:24 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:04:38 -!- Melvar` has joined. 14:23:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 14:24:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:11:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:12:28 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 15:42:24 Vorpal: Yes, and yes. The weird thing is, I swapped the SIM cards (one UK, one Finnish) between the two phones (Nexus 6, Nexus 5X) and now they're both happy. 15:44:25 And I don't think it's just the usual delay for registering to the network; I had been here for almost a day, and rebooted the phone a couple of times. 15:47:00 -!- xkapastel has joined. 15:55:09 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:56:11 fizzie: Weird 15:56:37 Maybe it'll work if you swap again now 15:57:25 FreeFull: maybe the phones are locked to a provider? or one of the phones is old or something? 15:57:28 um 15:57:29 fizzie: ^ 15:57:30 I dunno 15:57:33 Possibly. I had similar trouble last time as well, again fixed by swapping, and then *un*fixed by swapping back. Then I just kept fiddling at it (including flashing a newer Android build on the phone) and eventually it started working. 15:57:38 They're both retail Nexus devices. 15:57:42 it might be just random stupidity of the phons 15:57:46 fizzie: how old are they? 15:57:49 Super weird 15:58:08 They're a 6 and a 5X. 15:58:28 fizzie: ok, now explain what that means to someone who doesn't follow android phone stuff. how old are they? 15:59:00 I don't really remember. 5X came out in 2015. 15:59:05 The 6 maybe in 2014. 15:59:20 ah, they're not even in order 15:59:21 ok 15:59:29 It's a size-related name. 16:00:12 ah, like with cards 16:00:13 cars 16:00:16 not cards, cars 16:00:38 although about cards, have they invented a sixth SIM card size yet? 16:00:44 The 5" Nexus 5 is older, the 6" Nexus 6 was I think 2014, and last year they released the pair of Nexus 5X (5.2") and Nexus 6P (...5.9"?) about the same size. 16:01:16 http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-6 http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-5x ... useful url scheme 16:01:42 I didn't even know they had a fifth. 16:01:51 october 2014; end of september 2015 16:01:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_identity_module#Formats 16:02:41 Does that eSIM thing even count? 16:02:49 fizzie: why wouldn't it count? 16:02:54 I think it counts 16:03:00 It's not a "card". 16:03:33 does that matter? 16:03:54 Well, you did say "SIM card size". 16:04:52 it still has the same functionality as a SIM card 16:04:54 hmm, at least it's a standardized format 16:04:56 I don't care what shape it has 16:05:23 the non-full-size SIMs aren't much of cards either 16:05:38 No, but at least they're the sort of thing you stick in a device. 16:05:44 Not something soldered in. 16:06:07 fizzie: I think they're only optionally soldered in 16:06:17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Embedded_SIM_from_M2M_supplier_Eseye_with_an_adapter_board_for_evaluation_in_a_Mini-SIM_socket_blurred.jpg looks like you could have a socket 16:06:42 yes, what int-e says 16:06:53 but it's hard to tell 16:07:10 but even if it has to be soldered in, it's functionally the same 16:07:12 "Photograph showing an Embedded SIM also known as a chip SIM as used in Machine to Machine (M2M) Applications on business card for scale. Also shows an adapter board to allow the embedded SIM card to be evaluated in a 2FF SIM socket." 16:07:13 just a bit harder to replace 16:08:28 Have it your way; I'll still consider there's 4 "SIM card sizes" the way I interpret it. 16:09:43 this is a bit like the Hitchhiker's trilogy. 16:09:46 `? covariant 16:09:48 `? contravariant 16:10:03 the term "card" becomes increasingly inapplicable 16:10:04 `? invariant 16:10:34 (oh I spelled that correctly) 16:10:47 HackEgovariant: adj., very slow. 16:11:23 covariant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:11:23 invariant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:11:23 contravariant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:11:42 Worth the wait. 16:11:44 `? variant 16:11:46 variant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:11:48 ah, CaC still provides me with the usual level of fun... "[142454.411715] EXT4-fs (dm-0): Remounting filesystem read-only" 16:12:50 http://sprunge.us/PITQ 16:12:56 -!- augur has joined. 16:25:24 So I think this is a Church numeral for Graham's number: 16:25:25 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3 16:26:50 Lemme see. 16:26:57 (\b -> b 3) is the "3^" function. 16:28:11 That (\n ->) function there starts with the "3^" function and, (n-1) times, it replaces f with \b -> b f 3. 16:28:36 fungot, That (\n ->) function there starts with the "3^" function and, (n-1) times, it 16:28:36 b_jonas: usually i just mumble without directing the stuff to so many pieces left over :) 16:29:21 So, the first replacement turns it into \b -> b (3^) 3, which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it b times... 16:29:23 fizzie: weird, with the phone 16:29:28 So that's wrong, let me change it. 16:29:41 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3 16:30:04 fungot, do you know what happened to fizzie's fone? 16:30:05 b_jonas: what are you using? it works on my data. i have really done is read part of church papers when he designed the entirety of the stack as if it were 16:30:36 Okay, so the first replacement turns it into \b -> pred b (3^) 3, which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it (b-1) times. So that gives you (3^^). 16:32:09 @pl \b -> pred b (3^) 3 -- which starts with 3 and then applies (3^) to it (b-1) times. So that gives you (3^^). 16:32:09 flip (flip pred (3 ^)) 3 16:34:25 The second replacement turns it into \b -> pred b (3^^) 3, which starts with 3 and applies (3^^) to it (b-1) times, so you have (3^^^). 16:34:51 @pl \b -> pred b (3^^) 3 -- , which starts with 3 and applies (3^^) to it (b-1) times, so you have (3^^^). 16:34:51 flip (flip pred (3 ^^)) 3 16:35:11 @pl 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 3 16:35:11 64 (flip (flip pred (flip flip 3 . flip pred)) ($ 3)) 3 16:36:02 One last correction, then it'll actually be correct. 16:36:06 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 4 16:36:20 @type 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f 3) (\b -> b 3)) 4 16:36:21 (Enum (t2 -> a -> t1), Enum ((t2 -> (t2 -> a -> t1) -> t1) -> ((a1 -> t3) -> t3) -> t), Num a, Num a1, Num a2, Num ((((t2 -> (t2 -> a -> t1) -> t1) -> ((a1 -> t3) -> t3) -> t) -> t) -> a2 -> t4)) => t4 16:38:33 @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in ch 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f (ch 3)) (\b -> b (ch 3))) (ch 4) 16:38:34 parse error on input ‘->’ 16:38:53 Um. 16:39:03 @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in 'x' 16:39:05 parse error on input ‘->’ 16:39:15 Whoops. 16:39:25 @type let ch = undefined :: Int -> (a -> a) -> a -> a; pred = undefined :: ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a in ch 64 (\n -> pred n (\f b -> pred b f (ch 3)) (\b -> b (ch 3))) (ch 4) 16:39:26 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 16:39:26 a ~ (a -> a) -> a -> a 16:39:26 Expected type: ((((((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a) 16:42:12 @pl \n f x -> f (n f x) 16:42:12 ap (.) 16:43:10 -!- moon_ has joined. 16:43:11 @pl \n p f x = n f (p f x) 16:43:12 (line 1, column 10): 16:43:12 unexpected "=" 16:43:12 expecting pattern or "->" 16:43:20 @pl \n p f x -> n f (p f x) 16:43:20 liftM2 (.) 16:43:27 @pl \n p f x -> p f (n f x) 16:43:27 flip (liftM2 (.)) 16:43:35 @type liftM2 16:43:38 Monad m => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r 16:43:47 @unpl liftM2 16:43:48 (\ c d e -> d >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (c b a)) 16:45:59 `ksh 16:46:03 just checking 16:46:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ksh: not found 16:46:13 kthx hackego 16:46:34 `` type -f bash 16:46:36 bash is /bin/bash 16:46:47 `` cd /bin; echo *sh 16:46:48 What does -f do on type? 16:46:48 bash dash rbash sh 16:46:58 Is it just me or is Erlang in love with global mutable variables (what Erlangers would call registering "processes" with "names") 16:47:05 tswett: type -f is which, more or less 16:47:14 `` type -f type 16:47:16 type is a shell builtin 16:47:23 `` type echo 16:47:25 echo is a shell builtin 16:47:28 `` type -f echo 16:47:29 oh. I failed to parse the question 16:47:30 echo is a shell builtin 16:47:37 fungot, is Erlang in love with global mutable variables? 16:47:37 b_jonas: can't assign to function call ( increasing the refcount) and fnord) system calls that increment and decrement by setting flags on its data about variables... 16:47:43 `8-ball is Erlang in love with global mutable variables? 16:47:45 Concentrate and ask again. 16:47:51 tswett: try type -a 16:47:56 `` type -a echo 16:47:58 echo is a shell builtin \ echo is /bin/echo 16:48:28 `` type bash; type -f bash 16:48:29 bash is /bin/bash \ bash is /bin/bash 16:48:40 I'm just gonna look it up. 16:48:58 `type -f cat 16:48:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found 16:49:12 `` type -f cat 16:49:13 cat is /bin/cat 16:49:31 `ls /bin 16:49:33 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \ 16:49:38 i wonder if it is re- oh yay' 16:49:41 "If the -f option is used, type does not attempt to find shell functions, as with the command builtin. " 16:50:11 Which is to say, the "command" builtin, not the command "builtin". 16:50:16 `mkdir /bin/test 16:50:18 mkdir: cannot create directory `/bin/test': Read-only file system 16:50:23 knew it 16:50:35 then why did you 16:50:46 its an expression 16:51:02 `8-ball what's with #esoteric today? 16:51:03 Very doubtful. 16:51:39 `8-ball Will you ever learn to use proper grammar? 16:51:40 My sources say no. 16:51:54 :< 16:52:19 >_< 16:52:40 @ [1..10] 16:52:50 thats the right bot i hope 16:53:08 >[1..10] 16:53:17 @[1..10] 16:53:17 Unknown command, try @list 16:53:28 oh, not haskal 16:53:30 you're so unlucky 16:53:39 > [1..10] 16:53:41 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] 16:53:56 @run [1..10] 16:53:58 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] 16:54:05 .-. 16:54:24 @help eval 16:54:24 eval. Do nothing (perversely) 16:54:35 @help run 16:54:35 run . You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts! 16:55:04 ok! 16:55:19 > [1,632422352..] 16:55:21 [1,632422352,1264844703,1897267054,2529689405,3162111756,3794534107,44269564... 17:00:07 -!- hwpplayer1 has joined. 17:00:11 hi 17:00:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:08:16 -!- augur has joined. 17:10:08 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 17:10:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:12:16 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Quiqucode * New user account 17:14:08 lets hope we get someone to stick around 17:54:21 -!- iaglium has joined. 18:02:38 @eval "hi" 18:03:16 So, uh, is that what happens? 18:03:29 @eval undefined 18:04:02 NO MUCHO ESTÁ PASANDO 18:07:08 Hi 18:07:12 Hello iaglium 18:07:21 you new? never seen you before 18:16:19 On a fat32 filesystem, the file mtimes are recorded as local time. Whe mounting such a fs on linux, as type=vfat, how do I tell linux what timezone to use? That's probably impossible, because the kernel doesn't know about it, right? 18:16:34 Is there some other solution, like a user-space file system that knows about this? 18:32:10 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:32:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:33:01 -!- augur has joined. 18:33:11 run windows on GMT? (not really kidding, it's what I do to avoid a mess on DST switches) 18:34:22 int-e: windows isn't involved 18:34:30 int-e: the fat is written by a non-windows mobile phone 18:34:37 int-e: windows uses ntfs these days 18:35:32 int-e: it's phones and cameras and cash registers and those kinds of stuff that use FAT, and they still will be using them in 2097 when the fat date rolls around and people will find themselves with broken machines, way worse than in 2000 or in 2037 18:36:44 int-e: because software running on the cpu is easy to update, so people will get 64 bit dates in memory easily, but file system formats are hard to update, because you have to get many machines coordinated, and FAT in particular is very impossible to update, BECAUSE WINDOWS 95 ORS FILLED ALL THE 32 BYTES OF THE DIRECTORY ENTRY SO THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO SPACE LEFT FOR A COMPATIBLE EXTENSION 18:36:47 looking at /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/vfat.txt , there's a timezone=UTC to tell the kernel to assume UTC; there's a time_offset=minutes to get a custom offset. 18:36:59 int-e: ah, thanks 18:37:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:37:35 wow, I should really use cut&paste 18:37:41 tz=UTC is what the first flag is 18:37:48 -!- moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:37:59 ah, and http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/mount.8.html tells about tz=UTC , I should just look under type=fat (which type=vfat inherits from) rather than type=vfat 19:07:06 <\oren\> hint-e, b_jhellonas! 19:09:25 \oren\: hi 19:10:32 \oren\: I see you added three extra runes to your font from the Verne cryptogram: the G rune, the D rune, a variant C/K rune. 19:10:51 \oren\: but I have some questions. (1) in the demo page, what does red and yellow characters mean? I know the green means recently added 19:11:13 \oren\: and the other, do you have a brief description somewhere on what you're using each private use character for in your font? 19:11:41 <\oren\> red is characters that aren't real ones. yellow is new red ones. 19:12:03 <\oren\> That is a good idea, I'll add a description 19:12:11 um, what are they if not real ones? 19:12:59 and aren't the green ones the new ones? 19:17:09 <\oren\> the green and yellow are both new 19:17:21 <\oren\> the yellow and red are both non-unicode 19:17:38 \oren\: ah! 19:18:03 <\oren\> I've added a description of what I put in the PUA 19:18:12 \oren\: but then why aren't the "Extra non-standard characters for Commodore 64 charset 19:18:16 " red? 19:18:24 did you get those encoded in unicode or somethign/ 19:18:54 <\oren\> No that's just a mistakre 19:19:02 ok 19:26:48 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:27:06 -!- gamemanj has joined. 19:32:08 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:03:47 -!- iaglium has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-nightly-20160225-9b31a077 - http://znc.in). 20:08:53 -!- hwpplayer1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:12:54 -!- hwpplayer1 has joined. 20:15:36 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 20:23:46 -!- hwpplayer1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:26:20 -!- hwpplayer1 has joined. 20:26:24 -!- hwpplayer1 has left. 20:28:05 -!- hwpplayer1 has joined. 20:28:28 -!- hwpplayer1 has left. 20:53:48 hate safehaskell 20:54:31 int-e: what's the reason this time 20:57:14 also hate lens 20:57:41 I'm trying to update lambdabot... which relies on safehaskell for... safety 20:57:55 and every time I do that there's a million modules in lens that can't be imported safely 21:12:05 `? time cube 21:12:24 EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t 21:39:01 (the real problem here is that tracking safe modules has virtually no tool support... I'm manually pasting import lines into ghci in order to figure out which modules are safe and which are not) 21:43:50 `? real problem 21:43:58 real problem? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:45:41 `? backwards 21:45:44 backwards? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:46:44 `run echo "¯\(o​_°)/¯ ?sdrawkcab" > wisdom/backward 21:46:52 No output. 21:47:09 Taneb: What, you don't believe in `mk? 21:47:23 shachaf, I don't believe in a lot of things 21:47:36 Do you believe in Set^op? 21:48:00 I do not even believe in Set 21:48:03 The thing I quoted in in #haskell-offtopic is p. neat. 21:48:38 I don't believe in #haskell-offtopic 21:48:42 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:57:54 in the end two modules needed to be patched... but I looked at 30 to figure out which of them are the root causes... 21:58:37 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47142&oldid=46987 * Jacek Michalak * (+15) /* External resources */ 22:01:53 [wiki] [[Palindrome]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47143&oldid=25341 * Jacek Michalak * (+115) /* External resources */ 22:03:27 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:09:48 shachaf: oh, that's the channel that got split off because there was a schism in #haskell-blah ? seriously, who's heard of such a thing, an off-topic channel getting so out of hand that half of them go found a new channel 22:09:58 `? #haskell-offtopic 22:10:01 `? #haskell-blah 22:10:02 `? #haskell 22:10:04 `? haskell 22:10:16 Why are you doing that when it's pretty certain they'll mostly not be found? 22:10:27 ​#haskell-offtopic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:10:29 ​#haskell-blah? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:10:31 ​#haskell? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:10:32 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 22:10:55 The schism was that someone turned on the TLS-only flag. 22:11:02 shachaf: yeah, I knwo 22:11:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:12:07 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:14:26 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:26:54 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:27:47 shachaf, lol why would you do that 22:37:16 -!- dnm has joined. 22:44:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:28:14 `? Phantom_Hoover 23:28:27 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. 23:28:47 -!- Melvar` has joined. 23:29:50 What does "hatheist" mean, is that anything like "atheist"? (And does Scotish even have any true?) 23:31:39 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:31:48 Do you like Dungeons&Dragons game? 23:40:45 `? FreeFull 23:40:47 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. 23:41:31 zzo38, it's a ~5 year old in-joke 23:42:54 so there is this person on another channel, joining for the first time ever, asking for an isp that does not have ipv6 because it makes the output of netstat ugly ... 23:43:02 this is why we can't have nice things 23:44:15 The answer I recommend is "go fuck yourself". 23:44:23 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 23:45:05 that was basically my answer 23:45:17 pretty aggressive 23:45:38 he got what he asked for 23:46:01 i thought he asked for an isp that [...] 23:46:02 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 23:46:40 subtext 23:46:52 he clearly.asked for a kick to the guts 23:47:00 i can't read that yet 23:48:04 "the output of netstat is ugly" is like the worst possible reason to cling to some shitload old technology that will be replaced sooner or later 23:48:37 maybe it was a made up reason to cover the actual reason that he's not allowed to share 23:48:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 23:48:53 not my problem 23:49:14 he also emphasizes on how he doesn't take advantages out of ipv6 23:50:55 Can you fix netstat? That is a separate problem. 23:51:42 i recommended a grep 23:52:13 myname: NO! netstat actually has options to filter by protocol 23:52:28 i don't care 23:52:55 his reason is rstupid no matter how easy or hard it is to change the output of netstat 23:53:01 myname: sure 23:53:21 myname: but I mean, using grep for that is as much of a crime as using grep on ps output 23:53:51 or possibly more because netstat is more expensive and invasive to processes' private file descriptors 23:53:59 b_jonas: i use grep on the output of find . because i always forget the correct arguments