00:00:10 <fizzie> I'm sure they will, but they'd rather we didn't.
00:02:41 <fizzie> I'm not sure. Maybe they've got something against fun? I think fire safety was mentioned as well.
00:02:49 <fizzie> The corridors were getting a bit crowded.
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00:13:47 <shachaf> fizzie: did you recognize any good speeches lately
00:14:38 <shachaf> would you say that synthesis-recognition is a section-retraction pair
00:15:59 <fizzie> I'm not category enough to say such a thing.
00:16:47 <shachaf> it means that one composition of them is the identity
00:17:20 <shachaf> (and the other is idempotent, of course)
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00:18:32 <fizzie> Maybe in some sort of an ideal case, then.
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00:21:20 <boily> does this channel have an ideal? or at least an eigenvalue?
00:21:31 <lambdabot> quintopia said 22h 37m 14s ago: Hope you like dark and malty. You're getting 24floz of barleywine and stout for a grand total of 2.94floz of alcohol.
00:21:51 <boily> quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! ^_^ <3 <3 <3
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00:39:50 <quintopia> are ideal principles like principal ideals?
00:40:25 <quintopia> boily: nice job spotting that lambdabot bug
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00:51:30 <boily> hellørjan. are you idealistic?
00:53:11 <boily> . o O ( laboilyas??? dequosséque? )
00:53:49 <shachaf> oerjan seems more filteristic to me hth
00:54:12 <shachaf> oerjan: i propose a rule against editing wisdom entries off-channel hth
00:54:36 <oerjan> (tip: this language has a _lot_ of words ending in -as)
00:54:49 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
00:55:05 <boily> oerjan: lithuanian?
00:55:16 <shachaf> fixed in-channel, mind you
00:56:05 <oerjan> shachaf: well there's a reason i used to read through the recent repository history, before i retired.
00:56:17 <shachaf> oerjan: i thought you unretired
00:56:31 <oerjan> an easy misunderstanding.
00:56:33 <boily> `le/rn dingas/The sound of a Baltic bell. Its chime sounds like potatoes.
00:57:26 <oerjan> huh, dingas seems to be a genuine lithuanian word
00:58:01 <oerjan> assuming google translate can be trusted.
00:58:13 <oerjan> lithuanian: so easy. as long as you ignore the 8 cases.
00:59:13 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
00:59:46 <oerjan> québécois, meanwhile, is completely incomprehensible.
00:59:58 <HackEgo> wisdom/dingas//The sound of a Baltic bell. Its chime sounds like potatoes.
01:00:53 <shachaf> It should be an error, shouldn't it?
01:00:57 <oerjan> you mean if it created a file?
01:04:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious renouned cackling overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:04:53 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:05:12 <oerjan> looks like that part works.
01:05:34 <boily> oerjan: eh? of course québécois is grokkable! tsé.
01:06:35 <oerjan> you're biased, indoctrinated and not to be trusted on the subject hth
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01:07:40 <HackEgo> Muddha: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:08:20 <boily> I have to maintain my `relcomeratio :D
01:08:42 <Muddha> whats esoteric programming ?
01:09:12 <boily> oerjan: okay, I *may* be slightly not exactly partial on the matter. but it's easy! drop schwas, unvoice vowels, and apply a good dose of English word order.
01:09:51 <boily> Muddha: programming that explores the limits of the possible, with arts and post-modern creativity.
01:10:01 <boily> oerjan: that's what I meant indeed.
01:10:01 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
01:10:36 <oerjan> boily: does québécois have double negation
01:10:52 <Muddha> so its not a special type of programming that was dubbed esoteric for some reason?
01:10:53 <boily> oerjan: yup! and it's gladly frowned upon by prescriptivists!
01:10:54 <oerjan> not that that would work in that case
01:11:18 <oerjan> Muddha: it's the languages that are esoteric. as in weird.
01:11:27 <zzo38> Muddha: Look at wiki to see its working.
01:11:36 <boily> Muddha: it's more like "fringe" or "frontier" programming.
01:11:48 <Muddha> ah im in the right place then
01:12:19 <Muddha> I'm a newb so take it easy on me
01:12:40 <Muddha> ill be back with questions soon :P hope you guys are willing to help haha
01:13:06 <boily> we like newcomers!
01:13:20 <oerjan> given your username, i was guessing you were looking for more spiritual stuff. which alas is _not_ what this channel is about. usually.
01:13:32 <Muddha> haha no thats my actual nickname
01:13:41 <boily> Muddha: you should take a look at the classics on the wiki: Brainfuck, Befunge, False, Malbolge...
01:14:04 <boily> (and probably Aubergine too, but that one is a shameless plug)
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01:14:25 <zzo38> And also INTERCAL and Special:Random
01:15:25 <shachaf> how do you read "shavention"
01:15:31 <Muddha> I study electrical engineering and so I kinda got twisted with programming along the way im not particularly any good but I've been successfully intrigued
01:16:33 <boily> then I shall ask you the The Question: what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
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01:17:05 <Muddha> haha im not sure about either
01:17:05 <oerjan> . o O ( since e's electrical, maybe ask for charge too? )
01:17:13 <Muddha> but i eight somewhere around 70 kgs
01:17:22 <shachaf> oerjan: Are there non-electrical engineers?
01:17:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i think so? they build bridges and stuff...
01:18:11 <boily> he puns! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
01:18:35 <Muddha> no taxes where im from
01:18:36 <boily> Muddha: please be aware that any further pun shall be thwacked by my mapole.
01:19:00 <boily> Muddha: SI units, no taxes... Northern European?
01:19:19 <Muddha> grew up in the middle east
01:19:24 <Muddha> currently in western europe
01:19:27 <oerjan> what about no taxes tells you northern european that makes no sense
01:19:49 <shachaf> every other / bin/ shavention / comes out of the / fourth dimension / life is just / a tanebvention / burma shave
01:19:53 <boily> it does. my deductions are sane!
01:20:28 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
01:20:28 <Muddha> stope lying to yourself
01:21:04 <zzo38> boily: Are you sure?
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01:22:21 <Muddha> hence the pun oppressing pole
01:22:58 <oerjan> Muddha: do not question boily's sanity. that is not altogether safe hth
01:23:46 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:24:38 <Muddha> anyway guys its nice meeting you
01:24:45 <shachaf> boily: Does ' mean feet or minutes?
01:24:54 <Muddha> once I get my c's down and I move up the programming ladder
01:25:01 <Muddha> I shall be back wanting more
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01:26:31 <boily> shachaf: yes, and I shall correct it.
01:26:54 <boily> `` sed -i 's/'\b/’/' wisdom/mapole
01:26:55 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:27:09 <boily> `` sed -i "s/'\b/’/" wisdom/mapole
01:27:17 <boily> Halifax is far hth.
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01:28:07 <lambdabot> CYHZ 220009Z 21016G22KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC001 15/15 A2971 RMK ST8 SLP065 DENSITY ALT 800FT
01:28:58 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:29:13 <shachaf> boily: Is there a leggy version?
01:29:22 <boily> `` sed -i "s/'/’/" wisdom/mapole
01:29:30 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:29:32 * oerjan gives boily some `sled propaganda. rosebud!
01:29:48 <oerjan> actually, make that `slwd
01:29:53 <boily> shachaf: a leg version of a mapole?
01:30:10 <shachaf> Right. You only specify what the army version includes.
01:30:28 <shachaf> oerjan: slwd is presumably sled for lewd files
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01:31:16 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#lord#lewd#
01:31:39 <HackEgo> Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up instead. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:32:03 <shachaf> oerjan: Does "amortized" pop up when you try to remember the word "amortized"?
01:32:22 <oerjan> but more than it used to.
01:32:32 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s# instead##
01:32:35 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious renouned cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:33:38 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s/renouned/interjecting/
01:33:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious interjecting cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:34:59 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s/interjecting/articled/
01:35:02 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious articled cackling zombie overlord emeritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:35:36 <shachaf> _Maniacs in the Fourth Dimension_ -- by Kilgore Trout
01:35:39 <shachaf> It was about people, whose mental diseases couldn't be treated because the causes of the diseases were all in the fourth dimension, and three-dimensional Earthling doctors couldn't see those causes at all, or even imagine them.
01:35:43 <shachaf> One thing Trout said that Rosewater liked very much was that there really were vampires and were-wolves and goblins and angels and so on, but that they were in the fourth dimension. So was William Blake, Rosewater's favorite poet, according to Trout. So were heaven and hell.
01:36:26 <shachaf> http://kilgoretroutstories.tumblr.com/post/16715820705/the-gospel-from-outer-space-by-kilgore-trout was a very good Kilgore Trout story.
01:37:09 <oerjan> i'm not sure he's my kettle of fish.
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01:39:08 <oerjan> you just need to deduce the ichtymology.
01:39:39 <oerjan> also i probably misused the idiom. otoh i'm not the first to do so.
01:42:20 <oerjan> hm apparently kilgore trout is itself a pun.
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02:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> Conspiracy Theory Time: The Apollo 11 moon landings were faked
02:08:55 <hppavilion[1]> They actually pulled if off on Apollo 8, but /somebody/ didn't understand how to use a video camera
02:09:55 <HackEgo> [U+2460 CIRCLED DIGIT ONE]
02:10:19 <HackEgo> [U+24F5 DOUBLE CIRCLED DIGIT ONE]
02:10:44 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: So you can't get a 1 into a single circle- thus why you made it 7sd instead- but it will fit into a double circle?
02:10:58 <boily> all conspiracies exist.
02:11:29 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any conspiracy theories involving the Unicode Consortium
02:12:57 <boily> there are some heated flame wars about Han Unification...
02:20:31 <hppavilion[1]> My favorite word that I invented is 'hyperthesis', mostly because it's actually useful
02:21:15 * boily is startled by cats
02:21:41 <boily> I don't think there are actual unicodal conspiracies...
02:27:48 * oerjan wonders if the MiD's umbrella also prevents him from leaving footprints or if that's a power he has
02:30:49 <oerjan> also i'm wondering if he's going to die heroically without ever showing himself
02:31:34 <boily> bringing with his ultimate demise the secret of V's true gender?
02:32:12 <shachaf> I saw a puzzle: An airplane has 100 seats, and there are 100 people with assigned seat numbers. One person enters the airplane and sits in a random seat. Then the rest of them enter the the airplane one at a time and try to sit in their assigned seat; if it's taken, they sit in a random free seat instead. What's the probability that the last person will sit in the correct seat?
02:32:30 <boily> oerjan: that's perfectly thausible!
02:33:09 <boily> shachaf: I saw that puzzle. I refuse to aknowledge that puzzle. it is inherently headachy hth
02:33:22 <shachaf> boily: it has a very simple solution hth
02:34:33 <boily> yes. and the result is right. nonetheless, it's a great source of mental dissonance.
02:50:42 <boily> I want to say that there are 99 wrong seats and only 1 right seat, so chances are 1%. but no, 50% is the right result.
02:51:49 <boily> oh well. time to night.
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03:03:25 <oerjan> maybe someone can hack it in.
03:08:25 <oerjan> `addquote <fizzie> AIUI, one of the senior folks now has a car full of body parts as a result. <fizzie> (I don't know, I was in Finland.)
03:08:28 <HackEgo> 1282) <fizzie> AIUI, one of the senior folks now has a car full of body parts as a result. <fizzie> (I don't know, I was in Finland.)
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03:56:54 <quintopia> oerjan: what proportion of norwegians do you think secretly own hookahs?
03:58:44 <oerjan> i'm way too out of the loop to guess.
04:01:22 <quintopia> stands to reason, what with being prehadeon and all
04:09:35 <quintopia> what's the best example of a programming language where every string constructed from valid tokens is a valid program and none of the tokens are NOPs
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04:10:44 <quintopia> is there a non-esoteric such thing?
04:11:53 <oerjan> pretty sure APL has some syntax, like parentheses
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04:12:54 <oerjan> (also it has operators but not precedence)
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04:14:38 <quintopia> "problem" and "program" have very similar movements of fingers on a keyboard
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04:23:44 <izabera> what does 'setting a breakpoint' do in gdb?
04:24:04 <izabera> how do i do that without a debugger?
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04:24:45 <izabera> like, can a program set a breakpoint in itself while it's running?
04:26:04 <hppavilion[1]> http://notevendoommusic.com/ is still the greatest thing ever
04:26:16 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Yes, but it's a mortal sin and it will avoid it at all costs
04:27:05 <quintopia> izabera: this is a thing i do regularly with pdb
04:27:43 <quintopia> but i never considered doing it with gdb. i assumed breakpoints were things tracked by gdb, not the program
04:28:16 <izabera> so you're saying it requires actual work from the debugger
04:29:02 <izabera> i was hoping it was some magic assembly instruction that took a memory address and something and it signaled you when you access it
04:32:03 <shachaf> Are you talking about a breakpoint or a "watchpoint"?
04:33:54 <shachaf> On x86 gdb implements breakpoints by replacing the first byte of an instruction with int3, 0xcc.
04:34:45 <lambdabot> https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Set-Watchpoints.html
04:35:33 <izabera> i don't see that being documented there
04:36:22 <shachaf> That page is about watchpoints, not breakpoints.
04:37:23 <lambdabot> http://www.unknownroad.com/rtfm/gdbtut/gdbbreak.html
04:37:23 <lambdabot> Title: RMS's gdb Tutorial: How do I use breakpoints?
04:37:51 <izabera> i don't see that being documented there
04:38:14 <izabera> in my defense it wasn't in the first handful of google results
04:43:02 <hppavilion[1]> Have you ever seen a GIF of popcorn popping? The physics obviously don't add up
04:44:53 <zzo38> No I have not seen a GIF of popcorn popping, but I have seen real popcorn and have the device used to heat them.
04:52:47 <hppavilion[1]> http://thechive.com/2015/12/15/some-satisfying-gifs-to-start-your-morning-17-gifs/ is... evil
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05:17:21 <Etaoin> Is the wiki still alive? Is this irc alive?
05:17:53 <pikhq> It's a bit of a slow period for the channel, but yes on both counts.
05:19:07 <Etaoin> Phew thank jesus. I've been silently marvelling at the wiki for well over a year now, only now decided to check if the community is still active, glad to know It is!
05:20:27 <pikhq> Today's logs are about 62k, to give you an idea.
05:21:07 <Etaoin> 6 am here so I'll go to bed now and rest peacefully 😃
05:21:36 <Etaoin> That doesn't sound bad at all
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05:28:08 <lifthrasiir> now we can use all sort of esoteric characters for Zalgo
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05:59:27 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'm going to show my mother some /r/reverseanimalrescue gifs
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06:33:01 <quintopia> it just occurred to me that in just 5 more years i will have spent half my life as an esolanger...as much time as any other hobby except fiction
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08:18:35 <hppavilion[2]> For some reason, there are some parts of the world where it is illegal to have a pet hedgehog. Monsters.
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08:50:42 <Destructible> I had a pretty good idea for an esolang, I think
08:50:56 <shachaf> copumpkin: that book was released hth
08:51:37 <shachaf> copumpkin: i'll send you a copy if you like
08:51:49 <shachaf> assuming there's a way to do that. i don't know.
08:54:38 <hppavilion[2]> They'll often be diagnosed with PTSD- "Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder"
08:54:51 <hppavilion[2]> But with the awful stuff that tends to happen in a warzone
08:55:53 <hppavilion[2]> I think that it'd be more disorderous to be a happy, optimistic family (wo)man after being rescued from an ISIS POW camp moments before your decapitation and moments after your best friends'
08:56:20 <hppavilion[2]> It should be called PTSR- Post Traumatic Stress Rationality
08:56:42 <Destructible> well, really, they are out of danger, so it's not exactly rational.
08:57:53 <Destructible> also, from wikipedia: A mental disorder (also called a mental illness,[1] psychiatric disorder, or psychological disorder) is a diagnosis, most often by a psychiatrist, of a behavioral or mental pattern that may cause suffering or a poor ability to function in life.
09:01:16 <Destructible> Also, I don't think that soldiers that return without ptsd are ok with what went down either.
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11:53:54 <boily> no HackEgo, no fungot... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
11:54:03 <boily> fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!
11:54:17 <boily> and Gregor isn't even here to be yelled at!
11:55:44 <fizzie> HackEgo seems to be online, just not on-channel. Even I can fix that.
11:55:46 <shachaf> soon ripe / soon rotten / soon gone / but not fungotten
11:56:07 <shachaf> fizzie: I thought you can fix everything.
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12:00:25 <fungot> boily: it is very annoying to use ssh with x forwarding. need to go to dozomo and learn their names and it doesn't come with the disks? dang.
12:00:35 <HackEgo> adu//Do you know adu? Adu adu adu adu adu!
12:02:24 <int-e> fungot: you should be using something else, like xpra or vncserver + vncviewer -via
12:02:24 <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
12:02:34 <int-e> (it's funny when fungot makes sense)
12:02:34 <fungot> int-e: esperanto was designed but elitist linguists more interested in pragmatics. ( pragmatic beauty would be a double as x86_64 use sse instead of the more " advanced"
12:03:14 <int-e> actually that was quite insulting, I think.
12:03:28 <boily> fungot: stop making sense. you're not sentient.
12:03:28 <fungot> boily: this one, yome! stay good! ( except that the is an operation
12:03:38 <boily> fungot: and balance your parentheses. ))
12:03:39 <fungot> boily: ( since ( cons x lst) in terms of y ( not the ( eq? ( 200 0.)) be false? i just have issues with a type-system question? we're evaluating everything in the top
12:12:15 <int-e> `addquote <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
12:12:15 <fungot> int-e: sarahbot is a surprisingly good conversationalist. -g
12:12:28 <HackEgo> 1283) <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
12:12:58 <int-e> (I don't particularly like that it said that to me, but if it had been anybody else I would have added it as a quote as well)
12:13:18 <shachaf> fungot: say something quoteworthy to me twh
12:13:18 <fungot> shachaf: darcs repository tomorrow. ( shame on me for not noticing.
12:13:24 <fungot> shachaf: what is dynamic-wind?? :p
12:15:19 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Wed Jun 22 04:15:16 2016
12:15:46 <shachaf> guess what: i'm going to be miserable and unproductive tomorrow, just like every day for the past couple of weeks
12:19:04 <boily> quintopia: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
12:19:12 <boily> what the morning are you doing here?
12:19:25 <boily> you're offtimezone!
12:19:30 <boily> no, just having breakfast.
12:21:15 <boily> we shall ask an impartial umpire, but later. I'm translating to a shower, then off to work.
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12:22:06 <Cale> `? dynamic-wind
12:22:31 <Koen_> well static wind would be just air?
12:25:07 <Cale> `learn dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind.
12:25:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'dynamic-wind': dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind.
12:25:29 <Cale> `learn static-wind is just air.
12:25:36 <HackEgo> Learned 'static-wind': static-wind is just air.
12:28:17 <shachaf> If dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind, what's dynamic-unwind?
12:29:28 <int-e> did I miss anything important?
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12:33:55 <quintopia> int-e: i just wanted to confirm a possible bug in lambdabot
12:35:13 <quintopia> will lambdabot only send you message notifications if you send messages to a channel that _arent_ commands for lambdabot?
12:39:27 <Cale> `learn dynamic-unwind is just like dynamic-wind except that it's a different sort of weather.
12:40:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'dynamic-unwind': dynamic-unwind is just like dynamic-wind except that it's a different sort of weather.
12:41:39 <int-e> quintopia: possible... hmm
12:42:06 <b_jonas> `learn brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
12:42:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'brexit': brexit is like a break, except when there's no surrounding loop, in which case it's like an exit.
12:45:49 <int-e> quintopia: it's not easy to fix... it really happens by design. lambdabot processes commands (which are prefixed by @ and friends) differently from "contextual" messages, and the notification happens in a contextual message handler
12:55:28 <int-e> quintopia: and by "not easy to fix" I really mean it's easy to process all messages as contextual messages but it's hard to figure out what kind of unintended side effects that would have. for example, it would be inappropriate to say that you have new messages when your command is @messages...
12:59:04 <quintopia> this is a problem i anticipated. but it remains that it is poor design since it can result in messages not being received or being delayed
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13:00:10 <Koen_> well, surely someone would say "hi" before sending commands to lambdabot
13:00:31 <Koen_> unless they're only passing by to get their messages, in which case the command would be @message and everything would be fine
13:02:26 <quintopia> they may be passing by to get the weather
13:04:46 <\oren\> Ok, so the next version will include 23fb to 23fe
13:04:58 <quintopia> i feel like checking for messages should be a followup action to processing any message. if its a command, notify can be PM'd, unless its @messages in which case the flag will be cleared by the time the check happens
13:11:23 <int-e> Koen_: #haskell is too big for everybody saying hello
13:14:57 <hppavilion[2]> Huh, if you add a + after a bitly link it'll tell you where it goes (and other data)
13:17:34 <quintopia> sounds like you hang out in the wrong places
13:19:10 <HackEgo> nothing//Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
13:19:19 <b_jonas> Koen_: you can say hi in the same line as some lambdabot command
13:19:27 <\oren\> quintopia: nah, sounds like he hangs out the places I used to post when I was 15
13:20:04 <b_jonas> @eval {- hello. why does this go into an infinite loop? I don't understand -} let { f x + 1 = x * f x; } in f 10;
13:20:38 <Koen_> @messages hi, b_jonas
13:21:22 <b_jonas> @eval var "does this work?"
13:21:38 <b_jonas> is the command even called @eval ?
13:21:39 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:22:12 <b_jonas> \oren\: no, it's probably wrong syntax
13:22:29 <b_jonas> \oren\: it shoudl be f (x + 1) instead of f x + 1
13:22:32 <int-e> b_jonas: you mean @run
13:22:36 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:22:43 <b_jonas> @run var "does this work (try 2)?
13:22:44 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
13:22:46 <b_jonas> @run var "does this work (try 3)?"
13:22:59 <b_jonas> @run {- hello. why does this go into an infinite loop? I don't understand -} let { f x + 1 = x * f x; } in f 10;
13:23:01 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:79: Parse error in pattern: f
13:23:09 <b_jonas> @run let { f (x + 1) = x * f x; } in f 10;
13:23:10 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:10: Parse error in pattern: x + 1
13:23:30 <int-e> no, I'm not enabling NPlusKPatterns
13:23:49 <\oren\> f(x) = (x-1) * f(x-1)?
13:24:18 <int-e> but indeed it shouldn't produce an infinite loop
13:24:41 <\oren\> that would end with 0 because haskell is lazy correct?
13:24:49 <int-e> *** Exception: <interactive>:3:5-23: Non-exhaustive patterns in function f
13:25:11 <int-e> \oren\: nope, the semantics of (x+1) include that x>=0.
13:25:19 <hppavilion[2]> Do you ever see a reference to something funny and guess exactly what it will be without detail?
13:25:29 <hppavilion[2]> For example, the Thoughts and Prayers game- t to think, p to pray
13:25:44 <\oren\> int-e: that is unmathy
13:26:24 <int-e> \oren\: it's mimicing natural numbers; the idea was to allow primitive recursive definitions like f (n+1) = n * f n; f 0 = 1
13:26:52 <int-e> but to my mind there is no good use for these patterns except for code golfing.
13:27:12 <\oren\> So it defines that base case how?
13:28:06 <\oren\> like f(x+1) = x+f(x) would want a base case of f(0) = 0
13:29:33 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
13:29:36 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
13:29:37 <fizzie> \oren\: It doesn't define the base case -- hence the "Non-exhaustive patterns" error int-e pasted.
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13:29:54 <lambdabot> eval provides: run let define letlpaste undefine
13:30:04 <lambdabot> ‘text’ (imported from Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ),
13:30:27 <lambdabot> run <expr>. You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts!
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13:58:57 <\oren\> Hmm apparently there are some graphical glitches causing people to see a mix of the old glyps and new glyphs for the range 2460 to 24FF?
14:03:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: ah, I see you added http://www.orenwatson.be/verne.htm
14:05:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: you might want to add the crude French translation of the verse as well
14:06:25 <b_jonas> \oren\: does this try to distinguish the two different K runes somehow?
14:08:51 <b_jonas> \oren\: in the cyphered rune version, on the top row second block, you're missing an E rune that is clearly present in the cyphered rune version of the book
14:10:35 <b_jonas> \oren\: and apparently you fixed the typo of s/et terrestra/te terrestra/ in the ciphered rune version
14:11:29 <b_jonas> I mean fixed the typo of s/et terrestre/te terrestre/
14:12:45 <b_jonas> ah yes, you do have two different K runes: and ᚴ
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14:29:36 <FreeFull> > let f x = case x of | 0 -> 0 | _ -> x + f (x-1) in f 10
14:29:37 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:21: parse error on input ‘|’
14:30:06 <FreeFull> > let f x = { case x of 0 -> 0 ; _ -> x + f (x-1) } in f 10
14:30:08 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:11: parse error on input ‘{’
14:30:22 <FreeFull> I don't remember how to write it with the {;} syntax
14:31:16 <FreeFull> > let f x = case x of { 0 -> 0 ; _ -> x + f (x-1) } in f 10
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14:40:43 <FreeFull> Thinking about it, I could have written that without the case
14:41:01 <FreeFull> > let { f 0 = 0; f x = x + f (x-1) } in f 10
14:45:06 <Koen_> > let { f x = x(x+1)/2 } in f 10
14:45:07 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a2 ~ a2 -> a1
14:45:07 <lambdabot> x :: a2 -> a1 (bound at <interactive>:1:9)
14:45:38 <Koen_> > let { f x = x*(x+1)/2 } in f 1à
14:45:42 <Koen_> > let { f x = x*(x+1)/2 } in f 10
14:45:53 <Koen_> now you're just messing with me :(
14:46:08 <Koen_> > let { f x = 55 } in f 10
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15:19:40 <b_jonas> `8-ball HackEgo, are you back now?
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18:38:12 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, did you ever look into how that powder toy computer works?
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19:32:13 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: What poweder toy computer?
19:32:39 <\oren\> someone made a computer in a sand game?
19:35:28 <Phantom_Hoover> no, and having read up on it i just found out that the game in question added this weird undocumented system that turns an existing element into free, instantaneous 30-bit logical operations
19:47:53 <fungot> int-e: no fancy quit message? :)
19:48:25 <int-e> `learn pico is the useless twin of nano.
19:48:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'pico': pico is the useless twin of nano.
19:48:56 <int-e> (opinionated version: `learn pico is the even more useless twin of nano.)
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20:11:32 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: alias: not found
20:11:40 <\oren\> omg hackego already unloaded
20:14:53 <\oren\> stupid gnu screen doesn't support astral characters
20:21:33 <HackEgo> 945) * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, the lib dems
20:22:54 <fizzie> I was sure screen was still entirely restricted to the BMP, but it seems to somewhat work.
20:23:21 <shachaf> Maybe I should try screen again.
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20:23:34 <fizzie> Well, I put U+2F85E in a file, and cat it out, and it shows up both inside and outside screen.
20:24:24 <fizzie> (Though of the terminals I happen to have installed, it only appears to work in stterm; it doesn't render in rxvt-unicode or lxterm.)
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20:30:22 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, it doesn't work in "screen 4.01.00devel (GNU) 2-May-06" but it does work in "screen 4.02.01 (GNU) 28-Apr-14" and "screen 4.03.01 (GNU) 28-Jun-15".
20:30:32 <fizzie> Though the screen ChangeLog doesn't mention anything that sounds relevant.
20:31:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is U+2F85E
20:32:07 <fizzie> Just a random non-BMP character (CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH-2F85E) from one of the many "astral characters don't work in screen" bugreports that I apparently have a font for.
20:32:41 <Vorpal> I need to get an SSD for my desktop. It feel soooo slow now, even with fast RAIDed spinning disks. Now that I'm used to SSDs in every other computer
20:33:35 <Vorpal> Especially the work laptop. Two large and fast SSDs in that one. Also a beast computer in other aspects too
20:34:48 <HackEgo> Vorpal: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:35:02 <shachaf> just get enough RAM that you can put everything in RAM
20:37:21 <Vorpal> shachaf, yeah I guess I need a new mobo then, this only goes up to 32 GB RAM support. And I have 16 GB in it currently
20:37:39 <Vorpal> More realistically I need a new GPU... But waiting for the upcoming generation for that
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21:01:04 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 2 Java characters \ 4 UTF-8 bytes
21:04:54 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:06:22 <HackEgo> 1 grapheme \ 3 codepoints \ 5 UTF-8 bytes
21:11:37 <HackEgo> 1 grapheme \ 2 codepoints \ 4 Java characters \ 8 UTF-8 bytes
21:11:43 <fizzie> Yay, four different numbers.
21:13:07 <xfix> `` printf '\xFF' | len
21:13:19 <xfix> `` env printf '\xFF' | len
21:13:45 <xfix> `` len $'\xFF'
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21:14:38 <xfix> `` len $'\U110000'
21:14:45 <xfix> `` len $'\U10FFFF'
21:14:58 <xfix> `` len $'\U1FFFF'
21:15:13 <xfix> `` len $'\U10000'
21:15:15 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 2 Java characters \ 4 UTF-8 bytes
21:16:03 <fizzie> `` unidecode $'\U1FFFF'
21:16:08 <HackEgo> U+1FFFF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f bf bf UTF-16BE: d83fdfff Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+1FFFF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
21:16:30 <fizzie> Hm. "UTF-8 not valid" sounds like a strange error in that case.
21:16:58 <xfix> len program expects characters to be part of Unicode, apparently.
21:17:21 <xfix> `` len $'\uE000'
21:17:23 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:17:31 <xfix> U+E000 is a non-character too...
21:17:36 <xfix> ``unicode $'\uE000'
21:17:42 <xfix> `` unicodecode $'\uE000'
21:17:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `unicode: not found
21:17:51 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: unicodecode: command not found
21:17:56 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uE000'
21:18:01 <HackEgo> U+E000 <Private Use, First> \ UTF-8: ee 80 80 UTF-16BE: e000 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
21:18:36 <xfix> There are 66 non-characters in Unicode.
21:18:42 <fizzie> `` unidecode $'\uf000'
21:18:45 <HackEgo> U+F000 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef 80 80 UTF-16BE: f000 Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+F000 \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
21:18:52 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:19:19 <xfix> U+FDD0..U+FDEF, U+FFFE, U+FFFF, and the last two code points of each of the 16 supplementary planes.
21:19:58 <fizzie> (Those two are different for unidecode, because the first and last private-use characters actually have an entry in UnicodeData, while the rest don't.)
21:20:22 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uFFFE'
21:20:27 <HackEgo> U+FFFE - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf be UTF-16BE: fffe Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFE \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
21:20:28 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uFFFF'
21:20:31 <HackEgo> U+FFFF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf bf UTF-16BE: ffff Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
21:20:38 <xfix> `` len $'\uFFFF'
21:20:54 <xfix> len rejects non-characters, apparently. It's somewhat strict.
21:21:10 <xfix> `` len $'\uFEFF'
21:21:12 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
21:21:15 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uFEFF'
21:21:16 <fizzie> That's reasonable, but calling it "UTF-8 not valid" is a little bit iffy.
21:21:17 <HackEgo> [U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE]
21:21:48 <fizzie> (Since it doesn't differentiate from byte sequences that don't even UTF-8.)
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21:23:07 <xfix> Hm, I guess I could check the error.
21:26:16 <xfix> `` len $'\uD800'
21:26:22 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\uD800'
21:26:28 <HackEgo> U+D800 <Non Private Use High Surrogate, First> \ UTF-8: ed a0 80 UTF-16BE: d800 Decimal: � \ � \ Category: Cs (Other, Surrogate) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
21:26:54 <shachaf> U+D800 is actually not valid, though.
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21:27:49 <xfix> So the possible errors are: not UTF-8, surrogate characters in UTF-8, using non-characters, using characters above U+10FFFF, anything else?
21:28:34 <xfix> UTF-8 parsing errors
21:28:53 <shachaf> What counts as UTF-8 here?
21:29:03 <xfix> Any stream of bytes.
21:29:13 <shachaf> Then how can a stream of bytes be "not UTF-8"?
21:29:39 <xfix> Because it violates UTF-8 standard.
21:29:56 <shachaf> Then I think that error covers everything.
21:30:47 <xfix> I guess if I want to split things, I could specify the following.
21:31:09 <pikhq> Tip, surrogate characters in UTF-8, are not UTF-8.
21:31:46 <xfix> Using invalid UTF-8 bytes, using continuation byte when one wasn't expected, start byte not followed by enough continuation bytes, overlong encoding, characters above U+10FFFF.
21:32:34 <xfix> `` len $'\x80\xAE'
21:32:44 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\x80\xAE'
21:32:46 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:33:15 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\x80\xAE' | paste
21:33:25 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:33:44 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:33:53 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\x80\xAE' |& paste
21:34:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.20889
21:34:56 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/1: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `|&' \ /hackenv/bin/1: line 1: `|&\` "$@" | sport'
21:35:27 <\oren\> Why not just use permissive-utf8
21:35:46 <\oren\> (i forgot what it's actually called)
21:36:14 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\xF0\x82\x82\xAC' | paste
21:36:19 <xfix> `` unidecode $'\xF0\x82\x82\xAC' |& paste
21:36:22 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
21:36:24 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
21:36:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.518
21:36:49 <\oren\> it's the version of utf-8 where invalid bytes get interpreted as code page 1252
21:36:49 <shachaf> What happened with that sled?
21:36:53 <xfix> `` len $'\xF0\x82\x82\xAC'
21:37:50 <shachaf> That's what I get for testing with BSD sed.
21:38:31 <shachaf> oops, that revert reverted the wrong thing
21:38:59 <shachaf> `mkx bin/1//\` "$@" |& sport
21:39:12 <HackEgo> 1/2:Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf
21:39:18 <HackEgo> 2/2:_8_decode(input, errors, True) \ UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0x80 in position 0: invalid start byte \
21:43:01 <pikhq> \oren\: I've seen a few different names for it.
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22:09:41 <HackEgo> [U+2318 PLACE OF INTEREST SIGN]
22:13:10 <\oren\> also it's the symbol on the command key on stupid apple computers
22:13:34 <HackEgo> Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
22:14:19 <HackEgo> Me is a proud member of the tEaM.
22:14:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: anagrams: not found
22:16:09 <\oren\> My coverage of techincal symbols is pretty complete
22:16:11 <HackEgo> adventure//You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
22:16:32 <HackEgo> frenemy//Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and king Dee Dee.
22:16:32 <izabera> but most importantly do you have the multiocular o?
22:16:33 <HackEgo> ist//An ist is an incomplete list.
22:16:35 <HackEgo> the u//The U are a very mad people.
22:16:36 <HackEgo> ruby//Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters.
22:17:46 <\oren\> you can test by searching http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm
22:17:59 <izabera> i just found out that compose + ? + ! gives ⸘ and compose + ! + ? gives ‽
22:18:07 <\oren\> i don't have ⸘?! weird
22:19:24 <\oren\> I'll fix that in the next version
22:19:49 <izabera> so i just found a bug in your font?
22:20:38 <izabera> and i fixed two bugs in bash? and one in zsh even if someone said it wasn't a bug? and i fixed the s3 authentication @ work?
22:21:54 <\oren\> I wonder if anyone has a ⸎ in their keyboard
22:22:18 <HackEgo> [U+2E0E EDITORIAL CORONIS]
22:22:30 <\oren\> or if any other font decided to draw it in the ancient bird form
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22:33:58 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x1f923 0x1f924
22:37:12 <\oren\> stupid old version of screen
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23:09:30 <hppavilion[2]> Wow. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/polynomial-trading-cards#/
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23:11:31 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ shuf -n 1 share/8ballreplies
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23:15:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/8ballreplies
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23:23:10 <fizzie> `culprits data/8ballreplies
23:23:19 <\oren\> ah the joys of bug reports consisting of a screenshot and "why?"
23:23:22 <fizzie> I don't remember doing that.
23:24:32 <fizzie> Oh, I just mangled it around.
23:25:06 <fizzie> `culprits 8ballreplies
23:25:43 <boily> b_jonas is the root of all things.
23:26:18 <fizzie> I thought it was the cultivation of the person.
23:26:44 * boily mapoles fizzie. 0.99 shachafs.
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