00:01:32 -!- boily has joined.
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00:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> Idea: Read every book in http://www.ala.org/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/classics
00:08:00 <shachaf> Some of those books are good.
00:08:23 <hppavilion[1]> The fact that Fahrenheit 451 is on http://www.ala.org/bbooks/top-100-bannedchallenged-books-2000-2009 (or really on any banned/challenged book list at all) is just an embarrassment to the human race
00:09:03 <hppavilion[1]> Personally, I think 50 Shades of Grey should be part of the curriculum in English classes
00:09:15 <pikhq> As an example of how not to write?
00:10:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: 50 shades of grey is the most terribly-written book known to man
00:10:35 <hppavilion[1]> It's literally bad twilight fanfiction with the names changed
00:10:36 <pikhq> shachaf: Yes, it's modified Twilight fan fiction, and the writing quality is... about what you'd expect of that.
00:10:49 <pikhq> I wouldn't say it's the most terribly-written book known to man, because it's not.
00:11:12 <pikhq> You should read more, then.
00:11:17 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Far better books than it aren't even published because they're so terrible
00:12:21 <hppavilion[1]> It has a bunch of picture-links to resources with absolutely no organization
00:12:27 <pikhq> That doesn't really mean much though. Particularly as the reason it got formally published has nothing to do with its assessed quality.
00:12:32 <shachaf> What's a good book I haven't read?
00:12:36 <pikhq> It was initially *self* published.
00:12:50 <pikhq> A book publisher picked it up because it was fairly successful after that.
00:13:14 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: The Cthulhu Mythos is pretty good, but it's more a bunch of short stories than one big book
00:13:41 <hppavilion[1]> I'd put a link to the library website here, but that would give people which high school I go to
00:14:10 <pikhq> But quite honestly, it can't possibly be considered worse than Atlanta Nights (by Travis Tea).
00:14:16 <alercah> is it worse than My Immortal?
00:14:45 <fizzie> I checked out the website of my former high school, and it's now an IIS7 "Welcome" page.
00:14:57 <shachaf> I should make a rule that everyone I know can give me one book recommendation, which I'll read with an SLA.
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00:16:27 <HackEgo> The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master.
00:16:41 <shachaf> `` rgrep 'body weigh' wisdom quotes
00:16:42 <HackEgo> quotes:<boily> btw, ^v, what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? <^v> 300 and USA <boily> nice to see that ^v is keeping with the spirit of the channel by providing completely useless answers to the question.
00:16:51 <hppavilion[1]> Damn, I can't place a hold because I don't know how to log in
00:17:00 <fizzie> It seems that they nowadays have an actual second-level .fi domain, instead of being a fourth-level domain.
00:18:25 <fizzie> There's a section for the library, but I guess not a database thingie, just a manually updated list of new acquisitions and periodicals.
00:20:28 <hppavilion[1]> I just checked the wikipedia pages for John and Hank green
00:21:56 <hppavilion[1]> Their father isn't named William (or, for that matter, Henry. He's named Mike, in fact)
00:22:14 <oerjan> helloily. what happened after Thor threw lightning at his father Odin?
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00:23:06 <shachaf> Taneb knows the kings of England, so he can probaly tell you.
00:23:47 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: idling is evil. banish idling now.
00:24:01 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: I think you can be a II if you're reusing a name from a non-immediate ancestor.
00:24:35 <shachaf> I think it's named after Eric Idle.
00:24:36 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] for horrendous possessive formation above
00:24:48 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Ah. non-immediate as in not parent, or non-immediate as in not any tier of n-parent?
00:25:28 <hppavilion[1]> So, if anything, I get swatted for inability to use contractions, not possessives
00:25:31 * oerjan swats himself -----###
00:25:31 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_II_of_England was James II in England and Ireland, and James VII in Scotland.
00:25:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's incorrect in any case
00:26:12 <shachaf> you're like what's-his-name's english teacher
00:26:29 <oerjan> i don't know what's-his-name hth
00:27:01 <oerjan> also, if boily misses this it will be the second time in recent memory. i may have to stop greeting him.
00:27:22 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
00:27:32 <shachaf> oerjan: i can accept it hth
00:27:55 <boily> hppavellon[1]! no, I do not.
00:28:16 <shachaf> boily: Do you know my approximate geographical coördinates and body weigh?
00:28:36 <shachaf> Anyway, it's well-known which city hppavilion[1] is in.
00:28:45 <shachaf> Or at least which airport hppavilion[1] is near.
00:28:52 <hppavilion[1]> (wait, was boily the one who knows where everybody lives? I'm pretty sure e is, but not certain)
00:29:15 <lambdabot> PANC 262253Z VRB06KT 10SM SCT024 BKN200 17/13 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP222 T01720133
00:29:18 <hppavilion[1]> So here's the library link: http://easthighlibrary.wikispaces.com/
00:29:21 <lambdabot> KOAK 262253Z 29007KT 10SM FEW020 22/14 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP137 T02220144
00:29:56 <lambdabot> EGLL 262320Z AUTO 35002KT 9999 NCD 17/10 Q1020 NOSIG
00:30:01 <lambdabot> KORD 262251Z 07008KT 10SM SCT150 BKN200 BKN250 24/16 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP194 T02440156
00:30:03 <fizzie> It was 30+ just the other day.
00:30:06 <lambdabot> KPHX 262251Z 06007KT 10SM SCT090 SCT120 BKN250 36/12 A2982 RMK AO2 SLP076 CB DSNT SE T03610122
00:30:48 <oerjan> everyone knows phoenixes like it hot
00:31:54 <Zarutian> not only steamy but burning hot, eh?
00:32:01 <Lymia> The solution to prevent kiseki from messing up the hill
00:32:06 <Lymia> set up a script to auto-update it.
00:32:28 <Zarutian> so, who is the current brainfuck hill-billy?
00:32:49 <hppavilion[1]> How could ANYBODY try to get A Wrinkle in Time banned!?
00:33:13 <Lymia> Explains 95% of banned lists probably
00:33:24 <Zarutian> Lymia: arent those two synonyms for each other?
00:33:39 <Lymia> ^ Example of bigotry
00:33:51 <oerjan> A Wrinkle in Time was pretty religiously flavored, as i vaguely recall.
00:34:02 <oerjan> someone probably didn't like the theology.
00:35:54 * Zarutian sings under his breath "Barnatrúnni er ég löngu búinn að gleyma..." ("Childish-religion|-faith|-belief have I long forgotten.." is probably a close English translation)
00:36:13 <oerjan> religious sci-fi/fantasy, essentially.
00:37:07 <oerjan> Zarutian is the icelandic i thought i remembered yesterday
00:37:52 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: it is a verse from a lyrics of a song written by Megas.
00:38:11 <FireFly> Has the webcomic SSSS been linked in here?
00:38:22 <oerjan> http://www.guitarparty.com/is/song/thu-bidur-allavegana-eftir-mer/
00:38:25 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: good tune and lyrics composer. Nothing special as a singer.
00:38:50 <fizzie> FireFly: Twice per my logs.
00:39:03 <fizzie> FireFly: http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=195 (by me) and http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=479 (by int-e).
00:39:15 <Zarutian> FireFly: I read it. Svo margt sem stingur rökfræðilega séð með hverning íslendingar myndu bregðast við.
00:39:21 <FireFly> I was just thinking a lot of people in here might enjoy it
00:39:50 <fizzie> I linked the former just because it described Finnish as "absolute gibberish".
00:40:01 <FireFly> I feel bad for having to run that through google translate, Zarutian :(
00:40:16 <FireFly> also lol, it (obviously incorrectly) translated íslendingar as "americans"
00:40:26 <FireFly> or "American people" rather
00:41:07 <Zarutian> FireFly: the funny thing that there are quite a few Icelanders working for Google. Yet the translation provided by Google Translate is still pretty inaccurate
00:41:29 <pikhq> Something tells many of them aren't working in Mountain View.
00:41:36 <FireFly> Presumably the Icelandic office(s) aren't working on GT then
00:41:42 <oerjan> ♫ Har du kvar din barnatro ifrån hemmets lugna bo ♫
00:42:00 <fizzie> There's a bunch of us Finns at Google as well, and Translate's not so hot for Finnish either.
00:42:19 <fizzie> Finnish TTS recently got a new voice, though.
00:42:34 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Dammit, this is going to be one of those really good ones that I'll have to keep reading, isn't it?
00:42:53 <Zarutian> Firefly: GT uses statsticall models learned by seeing two versions of the same text. Problem is that often English text written by Icelanders is nothing like Icelandic text in structure.
00:42:59 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: All I can say is I keep reading it. There's a bunch of backstory though.
00:43:33 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: it's really good, lots of story for sure
00:44:50 <lambdabot> CYVR 262300Z 24004KT 30SM SCT210 OVC250 25/13 A2983 RMK CI3CS5 SLP104 DENSITY ALT 1200FT
00:45:08 <Zarutian> FireFly: and it applies to stylometry too. One research on such had an interactive page where you answer questions regarding word use. I got 'Ebonics' when I actuality I was trying for Neuromancer Sprawlese
00:45:35 <hppavilion[1]> ...wait, is http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=195 accurate to the real world or is in-universe backstory?
00:45:59 <FireFly> it's accurate in real life too
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00:46:22 <fizzie> It neglects to mention that spoken Danish sounds like spoken Swedish with a potato in mouth.
00:46:25 <fizzie> But other than that, sture.
00:46:59 <FireFly> as are the maps you'll see, in that the names and positions of cities and other landmarks are accurate
00:47:44 <fizzie> There's a number of Finnish islands named "<something>ö".
00:47:50 <FireFly> There's a swedish sort of poem/short story written in dialectal swedish that contains the sentence fragment 'å i åa ä e ö'
00:47:59 <fizzie> And that number's a large number.
00:48:01 <FireFly> https://sv.wikisource.org/wiki/Dumt_fôlk
00:48:07 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: in Icelandic it is eyja. But for islands having names they have the -ey suffix
00:48:16 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Yes, Stand Still Stay Silent is fantastic.
00:48:39 <Zarutian> FireFly: reminds me of "á á á á" which is actually an proper sentence
00:48:42 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: "å" is Swedish for river, as well.
00:49:11 <FireFly> "å i åa ä e ö" "och i ån är en ö" "and in the river there's an island"
00:49:12 <shachaf> Maybe pikhq will make it happen.
00:49:33 <Zarutian> fizze: pronounced like au in Shaun? so it is not much diffrent from á?
00:49:36 <FireFly> (dialectal, standard swedish, english)
00:49:52 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Police police police police police police police police police police police police police police
00:50:39 <fizzie> Zarutian: I guess. It's the IPA /o/.
00:50:45 <boily> maudits sites coréens de pas foutus de marcher sur le sens du monde que je me suis repris à je sais pas combien de fois pour booker juste un ***** de vol intérieur tsé veut dire messemble c'est pas compliqué AAAAAAAAAAARGH!
00:50:53 <hppavilion[1]> buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo
00:51:02 <boily> (finally managed to book a domestic flight. fungot dammit was it difficult.)
00:51:02 <fungot> boily: i worked on my languages for ages on the console
00:51:03 <oerjan> Zarutian: i thought icelandic á was a diphthong?
00:51:15 <hppavilion[1]> John while James had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher
00:51:27 <boily> hppavilion[1]: where were we again? something to do about knowing your adress?
00:51:32 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: I have a better one.
00:51:38 <fizzie> The name for å in the Finnish alphabet is "Swedish o" (ruotsalainen o), because the Finnish 'o' grapheme generally means that sound.
00:51:42 <Zarutian> oerjan: you are probably thinking of é
00:51:43 <shachaf> John while James had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher
00:51:54 <shachaf> That whole sentence is ridiculous.
00:52:35 <alercah> John while James had had John while James had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher had had John while James had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher John while James had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher had had a better effect
00:53:16 <Zarutian> oerjan: which means jeg get skirvat nokkud vel skiljanlegan teksta fyrir norraent folvk
00:53:23 <shachaf> John while James had had had had pooch pooch had a better effect on the teacher
00:53:25 <FireFly> shachaf: it's funny, but sort of a bit cheaty in that some of them are quoted
00:53:26 <alercah> hppavilion[1]: that's the joke
00:53:38 <FireFly> the buffalo one is fun too
00:53:41 <shachaf> FireFly: Right. And moreover one of them is implied to be wrong.
00:53:49 <Zarutian> oerjan: (and that was not Icelandic but servral languages cooked together)
00:54:10 <fizzie> "Kokoo kokoon koko kokko! Koko kokkoko? Koko kokko." (and many similar variants) is the typical Finnish example of that sort of thing.
00:54:15 <hppavilion[1]> Jame while John had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had James had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had James had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher
00:54:41 <FireFly> Are you trying to fix the sentence?
00:54:48 <hppavilion[1]> You know what, let's just say "had" as many times as possible and call it grammar
00:55:25 <FireFly> John, while James had had 'had', had had 'had had'. 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher
00:55:40 <zzo38> I have seen that before in a book
00:55:47 <fizzie> Another one is "kas vain, sanoi kasvain, ja kasvoi vain, sillä vain kasvain voi kasvaa noin vain."
00:55:49 <oerjan> Zarutian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_orthography agrees with me
00:55:51 <zzo38> And, that is the answer they had given.
00:55:54 <FireFly> I can't be bothered to see if that is the right amount of 'had's
00:55:55 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: had in two in a row always looks strange to me because I think I made a mistake but it means "hafði haft" in Icelandic
00:57:02 <FireFly> It's nice to know why it is what it is, though
00:57:26 <Zarutian> oerjan: I do not read IPA so I am not sure but it is one single sound to me instead of two
00:59:06 <zzo38> (I remember in the book they had eleven "had"s)
01:00:18 <shachaf> FireFly's book, while zzo38's book had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the channel.
01:00:50 <oerjan> Zarutian: well i think english people have the same problem recognizing many of their diphthongs as diphthongs.
01:01:12 <oerjan> *native english-speaking
01:01:31 <Zarutian> oerjan: perhaps I speak it so quickly that I do not notice
01:01:55 <FireFly> I was a bit surprised to learn that native swedish (which is to say, swedish, sans some relatively recent loanwords) has no diphtongs at all
01:02:01 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.sssscomic.com/index.php?id=characters lists... kitty
01:02:02 <FireFly> err, in the standard dialect, I mean
01:02:04 <Zarutian> oerjan: but the au diphtong is fun one to explain to tourists
01:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> Age: 1; Nationality: World; Area of Birth: The silent world(?); Profession: Cat; Languages: Meow
01:06:20 <Zarutian> btw talking about IPA and such. Do any of you know of a speach to IPA strings apps that do not require net connection?
01:07:26 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: I think the size of each band and rectangle are the same across all the nordic flags. It is just the colours and where they go that changes
01:09:04 <Lymia> #esoteric micro Redcode hill
01:09:11 <Lymia> Maximum program size limited by IRC lines
01:09:28 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: but you should look into the heraldic crests of the countries. They are pretty neat
01:16:01 <FireFly> Zarutian: the size of the "inner" lines/border between cross and fields might vary?
01:16:08 <FireFly> between say the norwegian and icelandic flags
01:16:37 <Zarutian> FireFly: a bit yes but not that much that it is visually distinctive
01:17:22 <Zarutian> I probably could dig out the exact ratios specified in the flaglaws if you want
01:17:32 <FireFly> There are nordic cross flags outside of the country ones, too, like the red-and-yellow for scania and the black-and-white (I think it was) for fennoswedes?
01:17:44 <FireFly> hmm, that question mark should've been inside the parenthesis
01:18:15 <fizzie> I just know the Finnish one, which has an aspect ratio of 18:11 with a cross thickness of 3 units.
01:18:33 <fizzie> (And the left edge of the vertical bar at x=5.)
01:18:40 <FireFly> Oh, no, the fennoswedish one is basically identical to the scanian one
01:18:52 <FireFly> apparently there is a gallery on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Cross_flag
01:20:21 <fizzie> The Swedish one seems to be narrower than the finnish one.
01:21:01 <fizzie> 5:2:9/4:2:4 vs. 5:3:10/4:3:4.
01:21:33 <fizzie> I guess it's the same thing as with any other thing that should be standard but isn't.
01:23:10 <fizzie> And Denmark does 3:1:(4.5-4.25)/3:1:3, apparently.
01:25:51 <fizzie> As for the heraldry, obligatory reference: http://satwcomic.com/coat-of-arms
01:26:40 <fizzie> (Come on, guys, the sword is *behind* the head, not through it.)
01:27:28 <oerjan> @tell APic <APic> Why, oh why, did not i take the blue Pill? <-- you did. it's just that it makes you think you took the red one hth
01:29:50 <hppavilion[1]> The Big Swedish Dictionary of Bigness is still being worked on, and will be done in 2017
01:30:23 <oerjan> Den Stora Svenska Storordboken
01:30:59 <Zarutian> oerjan: reminds me of going to the automatic ATM machine
01:31:42 <fizzie> And typing in your personal PIN number.
01:31:46 <Zarutian> oerjan: oh, or are storord big words? (meaning long ones such as the Icelandic)
01:33:09 <Zarutian> ( Hellisheiðarvegavinnuverkamannakaffiskúrslykklakippunaglhetta )
01:33:10 <idris-bot> (input):1:63: error: expected: "#",
01:33:41 <oerjan> Zarutian: that was the intent, although it was a joke
01:33:50 <hppavilion[1]> Why doesn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_last_known_speakers_of_languages include English?
01:34:05 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it changes too fast hth
01:34:28 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: violates the anti retro causal laws that will be enacted sometime in the future
01:35:33 <hppavilion[1]> (Uncyclopedia needs to include mundane pages- like "List of American Fertilizer Manufacturers", which would include Donald Trump as the world's largest producer)
01:36:13 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you could make it hth
01:36:37 <oerjan> although they may have some anti-politics rule for all i know
01:36:42 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( Can one count as a native speaker of a language if one's parents raised one speaking it, but it was a second language for both of them? )
01:36:51 * oerjan hasn't looked at uncyclopedia in ages
01:37:03 <Zarutian> oerjan: would not want to see the politics on that anti-politics rule
01:37:42 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: if not, then there are no native hebrew speakers hth
01:37:58 <oerjan> because no one spoke it natively for a long period
01:38:00 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: native speaker of a language must learn it as "móðurmál", meaning the first language the learn to speak
01:38:43 <FireFly> <hppavilion[1]> The Big Swedish Dictionary of Bigness is still being worked on, and will be done in 2017 ← SAOB?
01:39:04 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: incidentally, that's how creole languages are created - children of people speaking pidgins intuitively flesh out the language until it becomes a real one
01:39:16 <FireFly> I was wondering if it's SAOB you're referring to, or something else
01:39:41 <FireFly> "The dictionary has approximately 450,000 main entries, and is expected to be complete around 2017." oh wow, feels weird
01:39:54 <FireFly> (that it is almost finished, that is)
01:40:45 <Zarutian> and then there are conlangs such as esparanto or lojban (the latter is good for meta lingustic discussions and when you want to winnow away uninentional ambigiouty)
01:40:48 <hppavilion[1]> Fun Fact: Wikipedia is actually plural, referring to the collection of pages (wikipedes) found on the site.
01:42:11 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: so? I thought it was obvious from the stem -pedia from encyclopedia. (Which means literally encircling (all topics) pages aiui)
01:44:21 <hppavilion[1]> "An accident, also known as an unintentional injury, is an undesirable incidental and unplanned event that could have been prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence."
01:45:06 <zzo38> I was writing this program http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/artifact/7c71bcf80cfcdf8d and I wanted to think of what should be the best algorithm for figuring out sharing meaning codes. I did think of a few things but don't know what would be best.
02:02:55 <FireFly> Can you really be your own successor?
02:06:32 <fizzie> There's a station called "Clinton" in Chicago on the Green Line 'L' train, the train info signs say "Clinton is next" when they're approaching.
02:06:44 <fizzie> (Fortunately the L doesn't stop at Trump Tower.)
02:08:37 <quintopia> you werent in chitown last i heard?
02:08:53 <fizzie> I visited there last week, we had a big team thing.
02:08:58 <fizzie> At least I think it was last week.
02:09:30 <quintopia> chicagos a great place. why not just move there?
02:10:07 <fizzie> It's in the United States of Amber.
02:10:24 <fizzie> I did like the skyline, but I think I liked visiting more than living there.
02:10:48 <fizzie> Here's a boat photo: https://goo.gl/photos/AhRMjpgFKCMSVYEQ6
02:12:29 <oerjan> it seems to insist i log in, after showing the photo for a short moment
02:12:41 <fizzie> There's probably some sort of a better link.
02:13:14 <fizzie> But I don't know how to get one.
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02:15:21 <fizzie> oerjan: https://zem.fi/tmp/c/
02:15:31 <fizzie> You got a bonus photo as well.
02:15:38 <quintopia> i have no idea what us of amber means
02:16:11 <fizzie> I ate at a place where they just served various bits and pieces of meat.
02:16:32 <Zarutian> quintopia: look up amber alerts
02:16:57 <quintopia> Zarutian: did someone go missing in chi recently?
02:17:47 <fizzie> quintopia: Something like that. It was at ZED451.
02:17:51 <Zarutian> quintopia: no? I am not sure by what you mean by chi. Chicago?
02:18:05 <fizzie> Also I ate a chi-style hot dog and chi-style deep dish pizza, because that seemed to be the thing to do.
02:18:36 <fizzie> And I picked "Amber" as a random-ish word starting with "Am", as a reference to the Zelazny books.
02:19:05 <quintopia> did you make it to a 2nd city show?
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02:19:43 <fizzie> quintopia: No, because that was a mutually exclusive organized option with the Chicago Architecture Foundation river cruise.
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02:20:54 <fizzie> I didn't do that much sightseeing, just walked around Millennium Park and the lakefront area a bit.
02:21:04 <quintopia> i didnt even realize river cruises were a thing. the chi river seems...a bit cramped
02:21:32 <quintopia> near where the segway and bike tours leave
02:22:12 <fizzie> I have several photos of the Bean, it looks pretty weird from below what with all the reflections.
02:23:42 <fizzie> The week before that I was in Cambridge, saw the MIT Museum and the Mount Auburn cemetery. They were good places to visit as well.
02:23:54 <fizzie> Though it was the most car-oriented cemetery I've ever been at.
02:24:13 <fizzie> (Admittedly quite big and hilly. But still.)
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02:33:00 <\oren\> What if the trumpers form a new confederacy?
02:33:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:33:43 <\oren\> then hillary clinton's successor will be noone, like Gorbachev, and Nicolas II
02:35:58 <\oren\> As "PResident of the Soviet Union", Gorbachev had no predecessor, and no successor
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02:37:51 <APNG> gah help me promote EPNG https://gist.github.com/SoniEx2/60a025d5901f67b2e549dca4a0ba7d46
02:38:04 <APNG> I wanna do this to piss ppl off mostly, and make esolangs a bit more mainstream
02:38:17 <APNG> making esolangs more mainstream would piss ppl off
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02:52:08 <FireFly> and 4 is 'fyra'; those are the only two though
02:52:12 <hppavilion[1]> Making people pay for a course on how to use Linux is just wrong
02:52:17 <FireFly> well, at least the only digits
02:53:04 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Maybe a number for which the name is seven digits shorter?
02:53:16 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm only really counting letters- dashes and spaces are excluded)
02:54:54 <FireFly> APNG: generally doing something only to piss people off seems ill-advised
02:55:34 <APNG> FireFly, I wanna piss ppl off *through* making esolangs more mainstream
02:55:52 <APNG> I personally think esolangs should be more mainstream
02:55:59 <FireFly> I'm not sure if they should be
02:56:09 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: they linked a spec up there
02:57:14 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Is the point that it looks like a legit language with a buzzwordiful description, so businesses will make their use it to be more sleek and modern and popular with the youth, but the language itself is bizarre and impossible to understand?
02:58:11 <hppavilion[1]> Is it the gist? because it doesn't look like a real spec, just a thought
02:59:12 <FireFly> APNG: my first question reading the spec was "what does 'executable data' mean? native machine code? embedded ELF/exe? shellscript? undefined?" and my second one was "where did that shebang line in the example come from?"
02:59:40 <APNG> FireFly, it's an embedded file
02:59:55 <FireFly> maybe it should mention that somewhere :P
02:59:58 <APNG> the format of such file is not specified
03:00:12 <APNG> because different systems use different formats
03:00:35 <FireFly> It simply says it contains executable data, doesn't seem to mention 'file' at all except at the end in the context "PNG files"
03:00:52 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: well the gist is called "EPNG spec"
03:02:26 <APNG> hppavilion[1], why?
03:02:52 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Is the point that it's a PNG containing an executable as well?
03:03:02 <APNG> hppavilion[1], yes, that's the point
03:03:52 <APNG> hppavilion[1], it's no more dangerous than .bat files
03:04:29 <APNG> actually I'd say it's less dangerous than .bat files, because some servers are vulnerable to .bat files while no servers are vulnerable to .png files
03:04:56 <APNG> (except the ones that let you embed PHP in .png files, but those should burn anyway)
03:06:23 <hppavilion[1]> In the trivial use case, you just do 'if x and y: / block 1 / else: / block 2'
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03:08:07 <hppavilion[1]> This could be interesting, though the use case hasn't immediately come to mind
03:14:34 <hppavilion[1]> Oh look, obvious bullshit: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-25/standing-desks-are-coming-for-your-children
03:15:20 <hppavilion[1]> There was a statistically significant (by which we mean 5%, the bare minimum of significance) improvement in the BMI of kids using them in a 400-participant study over 2 years
03:15:49 <hppavilion[1]> The study was also done by a guy who makes standing desks for schools, but there's obviously no conflict of interest here.
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03:38:28 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/wob_jona{,s}
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03:56:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Challenger5 * New user account
03:58:26 <HackEgo> 2600//2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle.
03:58:59 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
03:59:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49650&oldid=49630 * Challenger5 * (+256) Introduced myself
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04:00:33 <oerjan> a person who can follow instructions!
04:01:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Z]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49651&oldid=49069 * Challenger5 * (+68)
04:03:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[InterpretMe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49652&oldid=47069 * Challenger5 * (+44) Clarified some things
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04:04:59 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed quotes --template '{date(date)} {desc}\n'
04:05:01 <HackEgo> Wed Aug 17 03:12:31 2016 +0000 <oerjan> sled quotes//1287s,I.*,[...] & [...], \ Tue Aug 16 20:47:38 2016 +0000 <shachaf> addquote <zzo38> I told someone to tell the queen to tell the prime minister to cancel the EU. \ Sun Aug 14 02:31:47 2016 +0000 <oerjan> addquote <int-e> I couldn\'t help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in
04:05:19 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed quotes --template "{date(date, '%Y')} {desc}\n"
04:05:20 <HackEgo> hg: parse error: filter date expects one argument
04:05:27 <shachaf> http://fossies.org/linux/mercurial/mercurial/help/templates.txt suggests that that should work.
04:05:38 <shachaf> Old hg version or something?
04:06:24 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed wisdom/tanebvention --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n"
04:06:25 <HackEgo> 2016-08-01 <shachaf> slwd tanebvention//s# w# metar, w# \ 2016-07-25 <shachaf> slwd tanebvention//s#Go,#Go, Windows 98,# \ 2016-07-15 <shachaf> sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/the/Fueue, the/ \ 2016-06-21 <shachaf> slwd tanebvention//s#p#Tanebventions, p# \ 2016-06-17 <oerjan> sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/ [(]math[)]/: math/ \ 2016-06-13 <oerjan> le/rn
04:06:26 <oerjan> mind you, it took em 3 tries. :(
04:06:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49653 * Challenger5 * (+179) Created a user page.
04:06:36 <shachaf> That's doable, but I wanted a time as well as a date.
04:06:40 <shachaf> But maybe a time is excessive.
04:07:16 <shachaf> `mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
04:07:35 <shachaf> `mkx bin/dowg//doag "wisdom/$1"
04:07:41 <HackEgo> 2015-08-13 <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ 2015-08-12 <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ 2015-06-07 <zzo38> learn 2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch\'s whistle.
04:07:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49654&oldid=49653 * Challenger5 * (+1)
04:09:41 <shachaf> `8ball does outlook work good?
04:10:00 <oerjan> `8ball What's up dowg?
04:10:23 <shachaf> `8ball what's the outlook on pooches?
04:10:31 <shachaf> `8ball says yes on pooches
04:11:02 <pikhq> `8ball QVIS·CUSTODIET·IPSOS·CVSTODES
04:11:26 <shachaf> pikhq: what's your attitude on pooches
04:11:43 <pikhq> An adamant fan at that.
04:12:03 <oerjan> `8ball QVOVSQVE·TANDEM·ABVTERE·PIKHQ·HACKEGONE·NOSTRA
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04:14:28 <hppavilion[1]> A man known only as "Dean": "You're a revisionist"
04:14:58 <shachaf> Even more visionary than a regular visionist.
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04:15:53 <hppavilion[1]> (He didn't laugh though. I think he may have gotten his sense of humor surgically removed. Though he's also german, so...)
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04:16:44 <oerjan> itym "surgically revised" hth
04:17:21 <oerjan> i do nazi what german has to do with it.
04:17:56 <shachaf> Are you this data type? data Froo f a = L a | B (Froo f (f a))
04:17:58 <zzo38> What does "QVIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES" means?
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04:18:37 <pikhq> zzo38: "Who will guard the guards themselves?"
04:18:55 <shachaf> who will pooch the pooches themselves?
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04:19:56 <oerjan> QVIS CANET IPSOS CANES
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04:24:38 <Sgeo> // Please do not give it a custom ktyp or make it cool in any way
04:24:38 <Sgeo> // whatsoever, because players are insane. Usually, not being dragged
04:24:38 <Sgeo> // down by sanity is good, but this is not the case here.
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04:30:42 <APNG> ppl care about sanity?
04:30:51 <APNG> I know scientists and engineers don't
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04:31:11 <shachaf> Is there some categorical justification for Free?
04:31:15 <shachaf> It's kind of like a free monad.
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04:33:10 <oerjan> shachaf: um, you mean it _isn't_ a free monad?
04:33:23 <shachaf> No, that would be data Free f a = L a | B (f (Free f a))
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04:34:02 <oerjan> isn't that what Free is?
04:34:33 * oerjan also trapped himself, and starts whistling
04:35:03 <oerjan> shachaf: i thought that was how Free _was_ defined.
04:35:09 <shachaf> he had it coming / he had it coming / he only had himself to blame
04:35:23 <shachaf> Well, Free is defined by being left adjoint to the forgetful functor or something.
04:35:28 <shachaf> But Free and Froo are not the same type.
04:35:49 <oerjan> ...did you misspell a bit above
04:36:38 <shachaf> Now I see why you were confusel.
04:37:45 <oerjan> based on the backscroll, it may be a free monad over the pingout functor.
04:38:00 <shachaf> "The method employed I would gladly explain, / While I have it so clear in my head, / If I had but the time and you had but the brain -- / But much yet remains to be said."
04:38:28 <shachaf> Oh, I was going to ask the what the pingout functor was.
04:39:34 <oerjan> named after the famous french category theorist Edouard Pingout
04:49:57 <hppavilion[1]> Does n/m+o/p = (n+o)/(m+p)? I don't remember this being true, but I'm not sure
04:50:56 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> (n/m+o/p) == ((n+o)/(m+p))
04:50:59 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
04:51:16 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> all (/= 0) [n,m,o,p] ==> (n/m+o/p) == ((n+o)/(m+p))
04:51:19 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty) arising from a use o...
04:51:43 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [n,m,o,p] || (n/m+o/p) == ((n+o)/(m+p))
04:51:46 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests and 3291 shrinks):
04:51:46 <lambdabot> 37.170373475361615 0.10771071128386465 -1.0578161875294434 -0.6073094205635062
04:51:54 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [n,m,o,p::Rational] || (n/m+o/p) == ((n+o)/(m+p))
04:51:57 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests and 6 shrinks):
04:51:57 <lambdabot> (-3406868177675) % 2677559980947 4350826311759 % 167300784848 5458341750827 ...
04:52:37 <hppavilion[1]> What I'm getting here is that the only falsifications are either mathematically invalid or the result of computational limits
04:53:26 <oerjan> it shouldn't be that hard to falsify that equation since it's false almost everywhere...
04:53:54 <shachaf> I was expecting better of QuickCheck.
04:54:02 <shachaf> > (\n m o p -> (n/m+o/p, (n+o)/(m+p))) 1 2 3 4
04:56:11 <oerjan> i was going to suggest 1,2,1,2
04:56:37 <shachaf> > (\n m o p -> (n/m+o/p, (n+o)/(m+p))) 1 1 1 1
04:57:44 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [n,m,o,p::Rational] || (n/m+o/p) /= ((n+o)/(m+p))
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04:58:30 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [n,m,o,p::Rational] || (n/m+o/p) /= ((n+o)/(m+p))
04:58:38 <shachaf> lambdabot: you're scow at shrinking hth
04:59:16 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [n,m,o,p::Integer] || (n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p))
04:59:19 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Exception: 'Ratio has zero denominator' (after 10 tests and 4 sh...
04:59:56 <lambdabot> Voters quickly forget what a man says.
04:59:57 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [n,m,o,p::Integer] || m+p == 0 || (n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p))
05:00:00 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 4 tests):
05:00:09 <shachaf> oerjan: why not just add m+p to the list tdnh
05:00:34 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [m+p,n,m,o,p::Integer] || (n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p))
05:00:45 <oerjan> this is not going too well
05:00:53 <shachaf> You should use ==> instead of ||
05:00:57 <lambdabot> STestable prop => Bool -> prop -> Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty
05:01:13 <oerjan> i thought it wasn't working for you
05:01:21 <shachaf> Right, so you should figure out what went wrong.
05:01:43 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [m+p,n,m,o,p::Integer] ==> (n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p))
05:01:46 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty’ with actual ...
05:01:54 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> any (== 0) [m+p,n,m,o,p::Integer] ==> ((n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p)))
05:01:57 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Exception: 'Ratio has zero denominator' (after 1 test):
05:02:10 <shachaf> Except you need to invert the left side.
05:02:22 <oerjan> @check \n m o p -> all (/= 0) [m+p,n,m,o,p::Integer] ==> ((n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p)))
05:03:00 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> all (/= 0) [m,p,m+p::Integer] ==> ((n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p)))
05:03:10 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a scientific journal covering the psychology of housecats?
05:03:25 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> all (/= 0) [m,p,m+p::Integer] ==> ((n%m+o%p) == ((n+o)%(m+p)))
05:03:27 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test and 3 shrinks):
05:03:37 <oerjan> shachaf: yes, i was wondering if the original was _always_ false.
05:03:50 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> all (/= 0) [m,p,m+p::Integer] ==> ((n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p)))
05:03:53 <shachaf> @check \n m o p -> all (/= 0) [m,p,m+p::Integer] ==> ((n%m+o%p) /= ((n+o)%(m+p)))
05:03:59 <shachaf> it's false 200% of the time
05:05:35 <shachaf> Yes, everyone said it was false.
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05:10:28 <hppavilion[1]> "How many angels are there who know a dance that can be done on the head of a pin"
05:10:42 <shachaf> > (\a b c d -> (a/b+c/d, (a+c)/(b+d))) 1 1 (-4) 2
05:10:59 <shachaf> oerjan: There are certainly special cases where it's true.
05:11:22 <oerjan> i concluded you needed a negative number
05:14:40 <oerjan> (a+c)/(b+d) = a/b * b/(b+d) + c/d * d/(b+d), so it's a convex combination
05:14:57 <oerjan> thus in cannot be the sum unless negative numbers is involved.
05:15:27 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, the 26th First Annual Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony is coming up in september
05:19:45 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh, when Abraham was looking for people in Sodom, he should have checked each person for goodness, then went before the LORD with the number he found, and asked whether that satisfies the baseline. Duh.
05:21:57 <zzo38> Do you know who win the prize?
05:22:32 <shachaf> Is ORD a category, like CAT?
05:23:20 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: How should he have checked each person for goodness?
05:23:43 <shachaf> zzo38: Detect Evil, I think.
05:24:37 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: iirc abraham wasn't _in_ sodom hth
05:25:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I thought he went to Sodom to find the good people
05:25:49 <hppavilion[1]> In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Owns_the_Future%3F, Jarod Lanier rants about how Google gets a bunch of money from using the translations based on other peoples' work without paying them. He proposes an alternative system, where you source everything and a series of "micropayments" compensates people for anything new they put on the web.
05:26:27 <hppavilion[1]> (a) how does this affect FOSS and (b) As a person who has ever played a game ever, the phrase "micropayments" (similar to "microtransations") sets off alarms
05:26:38 <shachaf> "And Lot's wife, of course, was told not to look back where all those people and their homes had been. But she did look back, and I love her for that, because it was so human. So she was turned into a pillar of salt. So it goes."
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05:31:04 <shachaf> The book is Slaughterhouse Five.
05:31:09 <shachaf> I think it was on your banned list earlier.
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05:33:07 <hppavilion[1]> "9. Every document can contain a royalty mechanism at any desired degree of granularity to ensure payment on any portion accessed, including virtual copies ("transclusions") of all or part of the document."
05:33:30 <shachaf> I saw a talk by Nelson once.
05:33:34 <hppavilion[1]> "Oh, you only bought the version with the first half of each letter"
05:34:44 <hppavilion[1]> "8. Permission to link to a document is explicitly granted by the act of publication."
05:34:56 <hppavilion[1]> If you put it on the internet, people get to look at it
05:36:00 <hppavilion[1]> Links can be followed from all endpoints? Not sure if that's entirely desirable
05:37:03 <hppavilion[1]> What happens if someone on particularlyfilthyporn.ass links to mylittlepony.yay?
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05:48:21 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlink assumes that the user knows what Wikipedia is in explaining how Hyperlinks work
05:52:33 <myname> hppavilion[1]: who cares
05:53:21 <myname> how would you explain it without defining dozens of pther stuff first
06:03:21 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I was making a joke. Because the wikipedia page assumes you've ever used a wikipedia page.
06:03:47 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, if you look at a clock when you aren't wearing pants the moment it changes to 11:34, you're cursed for eternity. Who knew?
06:13:49 <\oren\> Hell yeah, i made france go commie!
06:14:23 <\oren\> Feel the power of my soviet propaganda!
06:14:38 <\oren\> (I'm playing Hearts of Iron 4)
06:15:28 <shachaf> whoa, they've improved the game a lot since the version in Windows 3.1
06:18:50 <\oren\> It's awesome. I'm playing the Soviet Union as if Stalin wasn't insane with paranoia
06:19:49 <\oren\> I fomented a communist uprising in France, creating the French Commune
06:21:30 <\oren\> I'm pretty sure Britain will be commies too by 1940
06:22:10 <\oren\> Of course, this could backfire and I'll end up at war with america
06:27:20 <shachaf> man, the queen of spades is scow
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06:57:14 <zzo38> I thought of to make up such thing in Magic: the Gathering cards, as new cards with multi types such as: planeswalker land, Aura enchantment planeswalker, Aura enchantment land, world land, instant creature.
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07:03:59 <zzo38> In order to make a instant creature, I have written a new rule (or a clarification to an existing rule, depending on your point of view), in order to make it to work.
07:04:22 <\oren\> I'm glad I spent the extra money for the Sabaton music DLC
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07:15:10 <\oren\> Aha! my propaganda is so strong, soon hitler will lose his majority of public support among Germans!
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07:37:33 <zzo38> Does anyone frame themself for a crime that has not been committed (and does not intend do commit such crime)?
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07:44:32 <zzo38> Wikipedia mentions someone who voluntarily confessed to a crime that he could not possibly have committed; he claimed he started a fire by throwing a bomb through a window in a bakery, but actually he the bakery had no windows, he did not enter the country until after the fire started, and he was crippled and unable to throw a bomb.
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08:44:19 <fizzie> Re len(name(n)) = n, I'm pretty sure we discussed this before, and Finnish (IIRC) has only 5 ("viisi"); but len(name(8)) = 9 ("kahdeksan") and len(name(9)) = 8 ("yhdeksän").
08:44:58 <shachaf> In Hebrew and English 4 is the only number with that property.
08:45:18 <shachaf> It was presented to us as a puzzle in maybe third grade, in Hebrew. I was surprised that it worked in English too.
08:46:50 <pikhq> Hmm. If we go with characters for normal writing. Japanese has only 1 ("一").
08:47:21 <pikhq> Though if we consider hiragana, there's... None.
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08:48:49 <Taneb> 40 is, I believe, the only number whose English spelling is in alphabetical order
08:50:40 <pikhq> Hrm. Wait, that's the Sinitic numbers. If we use the Japonic numbers (hitotsu futatsu mittsu, instead of ichi ni san), then there's one which fits in hiragana; 3 ("みっつ").
08:50:55 <pikhq> And one which fits in normal script! 2 ("二つ")
08:51:30 <pikhq> ... And one which fits in Roman alphabet; 3 ("san").
08:52:19 <fizzie> Finnish gets tantalisingly close for some later numbers (11 -> 10 "yksitoista", 12 -> 11 "kaksitoista") but doesn't quite manage to match.
08:52:28 <Taneb> Name length is roughly proportional to the logarithm, right?
08:53:08 <fizzie> (Special words for 11, 12 instead of using the same pattern as other 1x numbers are a scow.)
08:53:17 <shachaf> I'm surprised that Go interface vtables are computed at runtime.
08:53:49 <shachaf> I spent a bit wondering how else it would work. But it turns out they just do it at runtime, type-checking and everything.
08:55:16 <shachaf> Sgeo: Did you ever write any Ada?
08:55:30 <Sgeo> shachaf, no :(
08:56:34 <Taneb> A friend recently finished an internship working with Go
08:56:46 <shachaf> Are you going to do an internship working with Go?
08:59:50 <Taneb> Not if I can help it
09:04:26 <Taneb> https://www.barrucadu.co.uk/posts/2016-08-25-three-months-of-go.html
09:04:38 <Taneb> That's his write up of his time with Go
09:07:27 <shachaf> Seems like a Haskell person.
09:07:49 <shachaf> pikhq: Did you write much Go?
09:07:56 <shachaf> Did you use what's-it-called?
09:08:19 <Taneb> He's doing a PhD on concurrency testing in Haskell, I'm fairly sure he's a Haskell person
09:08:27 <shachaf> I shouldn't say the name, but fortunately I've forgotten the name anyway.
09:19:09 <fizzie> About the only Go I've written has been [NAME WITHHELD].
09:25:08 <Sgeo> "absence of evidence is evidence of absence of evidence"
09:25:58 <fizzie> The thing you can use for computing numbers from logs data.
09:26:33 <fizzie> My Google app is a-broken. :(
09:27:59 <shachaf> Wait, is this a thing whose name is public?
09:29:08 <fizzie> I tried to Google for the name, but like I said, the app's broken. It's a very generic name anyway.
09:30:31 <fizzie> Well, the http://www.unofficialgoogledatascience.com/ blog mentions the name. But maybe they're rogue agents.
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09:33:53 <fizzie> Well, the Go replacement for Sawzall, anyway. (Apparently Sawzall's been open-soured so the name should be safe.)
09:34:14 <shachaf> I wrote some Sawzall which I think got checked in at one point.
09:34:36 <shachaf> Sawzall was a scow language to write that code in.
09:36:02 <shachaf> But better than the alternative.
09:37:24 <fizzie> I've also written a go out
09:37:52 <fizzie> A Go program to output a serialised protobuf.
09:38:51 <fizzie> Because I couldn't remember if [NAME WITHHELD] could do it that way too.
09:41:40 <fizzie> (That's another name I can find mentioned on a handful of pages but don't know if I should. Not that I really see why it would matter much.)
09:42:38 <shachaf> A lot of people leak a lot of names.
09:43:07 <shachaf> The code name of Gmail is not a secret, though.
09:43:34 <shachaf> Well... Google announced it publicly. But maybe on Google+.
09:43:41 <shachaf> So it might still be considered secret.
09:44:36 <fizzie> I'm not sure whether the code name of the search app is secret, because I'm fairly sure the string is in the .apk somewhere.
09:45:45 <shachaf> The code name of Google web search? Or your thing?
09:47:43 <fizzie> The one that's just named "Google".
09:48:40 <fizzie> (It's "Velvet", it's right there in the .apk file name in Android images, there's a bunch of people asking what it is.)
09:50:20 <shachaf> I can hardly stand fabrics like velvet.
09:50:49 <fizzie> There's a subproject called Velour.
09:51:06 <fizzie> And probably a bunch of other fabric names.
09:52:37 <fizzie> Anyway, we've got nothing when it compares to the forest of code names on the server side of the search stack, I can't even follow their conversation usually.
09:54:52 <fizzie> I got a t-shirt and a hoodie with my PA acronym on it last week. It says "API", that's a nice unambiguous name.
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11:21:43 <izabera> https://nicknash.me/2012/07/31/adversaries/ this is very interesting
11:58:36 <int-e> is this in any way connected to the aqsort earlier this week?
11:59:00 <int-e> (hmm. somewhat silly question, I'm looking for some causal link, rather than thematic)
12:03:22 <int-e> never mind, the second paragraph answers my question...
12:08:27 <shachaf> Oh, I like this perspective on sorting algorithms.
12:08:27 <int-e> "Rather than do all that reading though, we’ll just attack the constant factors ..." tsk tsk tsk.
12:09:13 <shachaf> I'd like to see animations of the DAGs of various inputs through various algorithms as they're being sorted.
12:09:38 <shachaf> Has someone made something like that?
12:15:38 <int-e> Hmm, that could be fun.
12:16:40 <int-e> in other "news" the Human Resource Machine is a cute little game but costs about twice as much as it should, IMHO.
12:18:14 <shachaf> It might be interesting with things other than sorting algorithms.
12:19:42 <shachaf> int-e: It looks from the trailer like a typical drag-and-drop visual programming game with blocks and so on.
12:21:15 <shachaf> I guess that's a pretty wide genre.
12:21:26 <shachaf> Hmm, I should do more TIS-100 maybe.
12:25:51 <int-e> no it's not much more than that... it's just fun to have that person running around executing the instructions
12:26:56 <shachaf> There are other questions. What if the graph might have cycles? Then your job is to find strongly connected components or something. What sorts of sorting algorithms would you use for that?
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12:27:24 <shachaf> $10 is twice as much as it should cost?
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12:38:56 <shachaf> I liked it, though I don't seem to have played very much of it.
12:39:27 <shachaf> You should try it given the other games and things that you liked.
12:39:35 <int-e> I'm used to buying games cheaply (humble bundle, gog special offers) ... that may play a role here.
12:40:04 <int-e> (when it comes to judging the price)
12:40:11 <shachaf> It looks like full price is $7.
12:42:14 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Well, being limited is the point.
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12:43:14 <Phantom_Hoover> there were really basic things, mostly concerning data flow, that you couldn't do without building the program around it
12:44:49 <int-e> You have an accumulator, memory cells, and in the end you get 11 instructions (in, out, store, load, add, sub, jumps (unconditional, if zero, if nonzero), and two CISC operations: postfix ++ and -- on a memory cell, simultaneously loading the result value.
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12:47:34 <int-e> oh and there's indirect addressing (pointer in a memory cell).
12:48:24 <int-e> I guess I shouldn't complain about the price too much.
12:48:38 * int-e goes browse for reviews on "Obduction"
12:49:13 <int-e> 86% metacritic... a promising start
12:49:17 <shachaf> I've been hearing people talk about it in another channel.
12:49:29 <shachaf> Apparently there's no zip (lightning bolt) support.
12:49:41 <Phantom_Hoover> i wouldn't trust aggregate game reviews as far as i could throw them
12:51:01 <shachaf> Remember that Magic: The Gathering tournament where the judges decided that all the fast-paced decks were invalid?
12:51:45 <shachaf> Hmm, that doesn't even work.
12:51:56 <int-e> "You can tell there were plans at one time or another to build out Obduction into a slightly bigger game, with a few awkwardly-empty areas and a bit too much space between some of the important elements."
12:52:22 <int-e> if there's no zip mode that will really be draining a lot of fun out of the game
12:53:30 <int-e> sounds like I don't really want to apy 30 euros for it right now, but will keep watching for offers.
12:54:23 <int-e> (and why does $30 translates into €30)
12:54:24 <shachaf> Better to play TIS-100, right?
12:54:38 <int-e> or finish snakebird
12:55:11 <int-e> Or give the Tangle another try. (Spider And Web)
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12:56:09 <int-e> how many levels does TIS-100 have? (HRM has 36 that involve actual programming, and some coffe breaks with *very* random story)
12:56:32 <shachaf> Do you prefer GOG or Steam?
12:57:05 <int-e> (hmm, I don't even have the linux steam client)
12:57:18 <int-e> (and for puzzle games like this I don't want to boot up windows)
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13:26:08 <shachaf> Anyway, time to go to sleep.
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13:36:47 <shachaf> int-e: The gog.com front page says "$1 is not €1" and promises to make up the difference. Do they not actually do that?
13:37:14 <int-e> shachaf: to some extent, yes.
13:38:28 <int-e> shachaf: so a) some games actually have adjusted prices (for example, TIS 100 would've cost EUR 6.29) and they add a coupon to the account for some games that don't have this price adjustment.
13:39:07 <int-e> Of course that means you only get the benefit if you purchase from them again... so there's a huge advertising angle to this, especially since the coupons expire after a while (6 months? a year?).
13:39:50 <int-e> boily: what's 1.4562?
13:39:58 <shachaf> They should just let inflation take care of it.
13:40:03 <boily> int-ello. EUR to CAD.
13:40:05 <int-e> shachaf: *and* nagging reminders when they do expire
13:40:15 <int-e> boily: makes sense, thanks
13:42:02 <int-e> "tesselated intelligence system", hmm.
13:42:43 <shachaf> int-e: Make sure to read the manual.
13:43:22 <int-e> Yeah, I already figured that that would be required.
13:44:11 <shachaf> I think you can also press F1 or something like that to get a summary.
13:44:20 <shachaf> Anyway, I was wrong before but now I'm really going to sleep.
13:45:11 <int-e> though the first level can be done without reading the manual ;)
13:45:25 <int-e> But I expect this kind of extrapolation has its limits.
14:02:16 * zgrep should play TIS-100 more
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14:04:42 <int-e> and boo for making the manual full of images
14:07:25 <int-e> (i.e. searching for a Mnemonic doesn't work, for no good reason)
14:09:53 <zgrep> Hm. Isn't it sort-of part of the story that it's just as can?
14:10:11 <int-e> maybe but it's still awful.
14:10:24 <int-e> there's https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456879799 ...
15:02:47 <int-e> actually F1 proably satisfies my most urgent needs (as I found out half an hour ago)
15:05:41 <int-e> Anyway, one row down, but I should do some other things.
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15:21:47 <lambdabot> LOWI 271350Z 11006KT 040V140 9999 FEW080 31/17 Q1018 NOSIG
15:24:02 <int-e> and the 31 could be worse, I suppose, given the season.
15:24:27 <int-e> izabera: do you know how to read those?
15:25:04 <izabera> people have tried to teach me but i was stronger
15:25:06 <int-e> 31/17 mean: it's 31°C, so fairly hot; but dewpoint is 17°C so the air is quite dry.
15:25:35 <izabera> it's pointless, i'll forget in 20 minutes
15:25:40 <int-e> The 9999 is visibility, so the air is clear. Nothing wrong there.
15:25:55 <int-e> izabera: I'm trying to help you make sense of the current discussion.
15:26:11 <int-e> I don't care all that much whether you'll be confused again in the future.
15:26:44 <int-e> Where the "discussion" is, I guess, more of a monologue on my part.
15:27:34 <int-e> okay, who changed the mutt hotkey for "flag this message" from F (<shift>-f) to <Esc> f?
15:27:38 <izabera> it's a conversation between you and lambdabot afaict
15:28:04 <int-e> izabera: As you can see, I've moved on.
15:29:09 -!- int-e has set topic: Short attention sp... wow, look at this! | The string theory channel | The interdisciplinary strange loop of Esoteric Programming Language Design and Deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
15:29:32 <lifthras1ir> int-e: is FEW080 the wind direction and speed?
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15:32:15 <int-e> lifthras1ir: no, those are layers of clourds
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15:32:57 <int-e> 040V140 is wind (hmm, 40kph, various directions, gusts up to 140kph? I'd have to check)
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15:33:52 <int-e> hmm, actually I probably got that wrong
15:35:25 <lambdabot> ESSB 271420Z 27015KT CAVOK 22/06 Q1014
15:35:27 <int-e> 11006KT is wind (mostly from 110°, 6 knots) 040V140 indicates that the direction varies betwwo 40° and 140°
15:36:21 <int-e> so approximately NE to SE.
15:36:31 <FireFly> gusts up to 140 km/h sounds like it'd be a bit terrifying
15:41:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49655&oldid=47354 * Sesshomariu * (+235) /* Examples */
15:57:00 <izabera> someone gave me a crappy tablet with an allwinner a33 and 512m ram and .3mpx front camera and 8gb flash
15:57:12 <izabera> tell me 5 good reasons why i shouldn't turn this into a mini server
15:58:06 <Taneb> It doesn't have a DSL port
15:58:16 <Taneb> Can't connect to internet without a phone line
15:58:33 <Taneb> Or wait, did you say good reasons?
15:59:10 <izabera> i don't even have a phone line here
16:00:45 <Taneb> I do want to get my old Windows 98 computer up and running again
16:02:52 <FireFly> A server with a camera, that's novel
16:03:14 <izabera> an awful crappy camera that i would never use
16:03:17 <FireFly> I guess you could actually use the camera as an entropy source :D
16:03:46 <FireFly> Possibly more useful than it'd be as, y'know, a camera intended to take photos
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16:50:21 <oerjan> . o O ( to, tre, fire ) . o O ( en/ei/ett)
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16:55:18 <FireFly> I should've remembered it's to in norwegian
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17:01:47 <oerjan> they're their own length
17:02:06 <oerjan> or in alphabetic order.
17:02:22 <wob_jonas> finding the cycles of the function that takes number to length of representation in some language
17:02:56 <wob_jonas> (there's always just a finitely many cycles for any sane language, because all large enough numbers have much fewer letters than their value)
17:04:10 <wob_jonas> in Hungarian, the cycles are (2, 5) and (4)
17:07:05 <FireFly> wob_jonas: so the word for 2 is five letters and the one for 5 is two letters?
17:07:08 <wob_jonas> is there a language where there's a cycle to which you can get from only finitely many starting numbers by releated iteration?
17:08:35 <FireFly> Swedish has the problem that 1-10 sans 4,8 are three letters (4,8 are 4 letters)
17:08:49 <FireFly> Kind of ruins any attempts at nice cycles
17:10:27 <FireFly> well, fyra in swedish; oerjan's were norwegian
17:12:09 <wob_jonas> and how many numbers are there that have four letters?
17:13:48 <wob_jonas> 8, 11, 12. then there are probably infinitely many others that land there
17:15:00 <oerjan> 2,9,10 ; 3,5,7,13,14,16,18,23,25,27 ; 4,6,8,11,12,15,17,19,20,21,22,24,26,28,29
17:15:28 <oerjan> the first group doesn't get many hits up to 29
17:17:09 <oerjan> shouldn't have said that: 33,34,35,36,37,38 ; ; 30,31,32,39
17:17:39 <oerjan> so, probably infinitely many for all cycles
17:18:38 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i split the numbers according to which of 2,3,4 they end up in in norwegian
17:19:48 <oerjan> for what you want, you should probably look for a short length that no bigger numbers hit
17:19:51 <wob_jonas> in Hungarian, 20 and 100 have 4 letters, and that's enough to make them infinitely many
17:22:17 <FireFly> oerjan: hmm, now I'm wondering what the split between the three groups would look like if you take the limit
17:22:51 <FireFly> or if at some point all future numbers end in one of the sets
17:23:20 <oerjan> i don't think they can end in only one of the sets. too much spread already.
17:24:58 <oerjan> unless, i guess, you can somehow get them all into that 33-38 vortex :P
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17:25:17 <wob_jonas> (2), (3), (4) are the cycles in Esperanto too, and 8 -> 2, 10 -> 3, 20 -> 5 -> 4 so probably there are infinitely many numbers for each
17:26:59 <wob_jonas> you can try http://www.omniglot.com/language/numbers/index.htm
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17:28:25 <oerjan> 1 -> 2 -> 4 -> 5, 6 -> 3 -> 5, 7/8/9 -> 4, 10 -> 3 french seems to have only one
17:28:43 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, french only has one cycle
17:28:59 <myname> so i have two sets of points: n worker and m jobs. i want every job visited by one worker and the sum of the traveled way to be as minimal as possible. anybody knows a way better than n*m?
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17:29:20 <wob_jonas> german also only has one cycle, (4)
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17:33:52 <myname> otherwise the workers just do nothing
17:34:01 <myname> but yeah, < is the tricky part
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17:41:11 <myname> my approximation approach is: build an n-partition of the jobs, ?atch each worker with the nearest center
17:44:09 <myname> i am not even sure if thus is easier or harder than tsp
17:50:28 <oerjan> `learn NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
17:50:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'np': NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
17:53:56 <oerjan> `learn Minpoijjikop bfjoustioppl sdardqwcasf uyvjhyb mipjkpmo.
17:53:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'minpoijjikop': Minpoijjikop bfjoustioppl sdardqwcasf uyvjhyb mipjkpmo.
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17:55:37 <oerjan> this is the first language to have keyboard section harmony.
17:55:57 <oerjan> except for that ugly bfjoust loanword.
17:58:28 <oerjan> `learn P is the complexity class of problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
17:58:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'p': P is the complexity class of problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
17:58:52 <oerjan> `learn P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
17:58:54 <HackEgo> Relearned 'p': P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
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18:08:19 <wob_jonas> I need a computer with more memory
18:10:57 <oerjan> `lean NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
18:10:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lean: not found
18:11:02 <oerjan> `learn NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
18:11:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'np-complete': NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
18:11:38 <oerjan> i think that should cover the important stuff
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18:25:43 <oerjan> `learn co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem.
18:25:45 <HackEgo> Learned 'co-np': co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem.
18:29:48 <HackEgo> Google your half-Word Haskell is Problem.
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18:32:02 <oerjan> `learn Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all.
18:32:04 <HackEgo> Relearned 'google': Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all.
18:32:18 <oerjan> (inspired by logreading)
18:33:43 <HackEgo> 2016-08-27 <oerjan> learn Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. \ 2015-12-19 <tswett> learn Google your half-Word Haskell is Problem.
18:34:49 <oerjan> oh it was from his neural network
18:35:58 <oerjan> never mind, it was scow hth
18:36:38 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
18:37:07 <oerjan> the naming scheme keeps proliferating. shachaf made that yesterday.
18:37:34 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ welcome \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \
18:37:49 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/????: No such file or directory
18:37:59 <HackEgo> bin/1492 \ bin/2014 \ bin/2015 \ bin/2016 \ bin/2017 \ bin/as86 \ bin/bugs \ bin/calc \ bin/cats \ bin/ciol \ bin/cmds \ bin/ctof \ bin/dice \ bin/doag \ bin/döts \ bin/dowg \ bin/erro \ bin/evil \ bin/exps \ bin/fsck \ bin/ftoc \ bin/good \ bin/grph \ bin/gs2c \ bin/gs2x \ bin/halp \ bin/hoag \ bin/howg \ bin/json \ bin/list \ bin/luac \ bin/maim
18:38:18 <HackEgo> bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/howg \ bin/ping \ bin/pong
18:38:27 <HackEgo> bin/hog \ bin/log \ bin/rng
18:38:51 <fizzie> `döts what does this do
18:39:06 <fizzie> I guess that was a bit obvious.
18:39:30 <oerjan> ëẍäcẗlÿ ẅḧäẗ ïẗ säÿs ön ẗḧë ẗïn.
18:48:00 <HackEgo> .melborP oN era taht snoisiced fo ssalc ytixelpmoc eht si PN
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18:57:57 <zzo38> Is there possible position in chess and/or shogi where a repetition occurs with both sides giving check on every move?
18:59:03 <alercah> zzo38: do you require it to be optimal play?
18:59:54 <alercah> it's definitely possible in chess
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19:12:54 <zzo38> Possible from any legal sequence of moves from the starting position
19:14:21 <lambdabot> ENVA 271750Z 28016KT 9999 VCSH SCT034 BKN047 13/09 Q1018 RMK WIND 670FT 29016KT
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20:38:38 <Jafet> presumably zzo38 wants a generalisation of http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess/check.html
20:42:07 <int-e> hmm, the TIS-100 histograms are nice but is there a way to see the actual records...
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20:47:12 <wob_jonas> you could ask it a bit more generally, saying what's the longest sequence of possible half-moves in chess such that each half-move gives check to the opponent
20:51:31 <wob_jonas> zzo38: http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess/check.html might be relevant (not exactly the same question, but close)
20:51:38 <Jafet> it's plausible that all such sequences must be finite in normal chess
20:52:12 <int-e> oh actually the statistics (as I see them) are misleading, buh.
20:53:48 <wob_jonas> zzo38: this shows not a cycle, but 38 half-moves of check, but it uses the restriction that it doesn't allow promoted pieces
21:23:56 <Sgeo> "If your personality can be neatly assigned into a well-defined category, then you're a Bertrand. If it can't, you're a Russell." ~ @qntm
21:27:12 <zzo38> I doubt that your personality can be nearly assigned into a well-defined category. There are a lot of different ways to do such thing and yet I think still it is not so neatly assigned correctly in any case.
21:27:31 <Sgeo> Is "human" a well defined category of personality?
21:28:01 <Sgeo> "you may not think your brain is a supervillain. but 1) its called Brain and 2) it lives in a skull fortress"
21:29:44 <zzo38> I would think "human" is a well defined category of species probably. Of personality I don't know, but I suppose so; still it fails to explain much, other than instinctive stuff and a few others perhaps.
21:30:07 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure "human" is more of a genus than a species, but hey.
21:30:18 <zzo38> OK, well I don't know biology so well.
21:30:45 <Sgeo> pikhq, I think the distinction only really matters to dead people
21:30:58 <Sgeo> I don't think there are any Homo non-sapiens around these days
21:31:09 <Sgeo> Unless I'm misunderstanding
21:31:20 <pikhq> Yes, yes, all other human species are dead.
21:31:45 <pikhq> There are other hominids around, though.
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23:13:46 <\oren\> I just realized that Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia's leaders in this game are identical white haired blue eyed old men
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23:18:38 * oerjan hates it when his intuition suddenly tells him not to add a wisdom.
23:19:03 <oerjan> either that, or my rsi is acting up.
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23:32:00 <\oren\> Should I interfere in the Spanish Civil War?
23:32:50 <\oren\> I'd like to remove a possible ally of Hitler, but this might be risky
23:34:33 <oerjan> well in real history, there were plenty of communists in it, and they still lost.
23:36:46 <quintopia> Sgeo: lol i wonder how many people are actually in the Russell category. it's hard to tell, given that the category is (necessarily) not well-defined
23:39:50 <oerjan> just apply BR's type theory to note that Bertrand and Russell cannot be categories at the first level.
23:45:08 <oerjan> <pikhq> I'm pretty sure "human" is more of a genus than a species, but hey. <-- http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2600/fc02546.htm
23:45:22 <\oren\> I've decided to at least ship the good guys weapons and send a small cadre of volunteers to delay the nationalists from taking madrid
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23:48:08 <\oren\> in the meantime I'm trying to make France like us enough to interfere too
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23:51:45 <int-e> what is that game?
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23:53:41 <\oren\> I'm playing as Stalin, but trying not to kill everyone who looks at me funny
23:54:46 <\oren\> I mean, the real Stalin almost lost Korolev. he sent fucking Korolev, to gulag!
23:55:16 <\oren\> it's a wonder that the USSR ever even had a space program
23:56:53 <\oren\> No, Iim trying to make sure we science the shit out of the Nazis