00:07:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:09:50 * le me, reading the wikipedia page "Syllabary" 00:09:55 "Waaaaaait" 00:10:13 "A Syllabary is most commonly CV CV CV CV" 00:10:46 "sih-lah-bai-ree" 00:11:44 notice how all your vowels are diphtongues 00:11:46 Good. 00:11:55 myname: Ah, yes, true 00:12:25 But a dipthong could be allowed in a Syllabary; no reason it couldn't be 00:13:08 The IPA can spell "hay" in 2 symbols, even though it's h+(eh+ee) 00:13:10 english is so crazy 00:13:41 in german, a, e, i, o and u are single sounds 00:13:52 in english, only e is 00:13:55 dafuq 00:14:08 myname: I want a Syllabary or Logogrammery or Abugida for English. 00:14:14 myname: Yeah, I'm not really sure 00:14:49 But they're said in such a smoothly-chained way that, until I first read about "dipthongs", I didn't realize they were 2 sounds 00:15:19 OTOH, a, e, i, o, and u all make several different noises, and some of them are dipthongs 00:15:55 (I think the best way to explain writing systems is through Batman, assuming the language is always English) 00:16:03 alphabet: batman 00:16:20 abjad: btmn 00:16:40 we should add unvoiced vowels to wnglish, just because fuck you everybody 00:16:53 myname: Yeah, I want to do that too 00:17:01 But I've yet to find such thing as an unvoiced vowel 00:17:19 abugida: b,tm,n (or something, probably move the ,s to be more diacritical) 00:17:34 i can exactly pronounce one word with such thing 00:17:39 that word is sushi 00:17:46 from the trailer for dead sushi 00:18:54 Syllabary: Something like (with symbols in [brackets] being stacked vertically) [_o/][~o^] 00:19:08 Logography: Picture of batman 00:21:09 abugida and syllabary, I guess 00:21:58 Wait, syllabary (the new one, not the old one) is more of an impure abjad 00:23:26 -!- adu has joined. 00:25:38 hadu 00:25:56 adu: If we were using a the Latin Abjad, your name would just be 'd' 00:25:58 `? IPA 00:26:00 IPA? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:26:13 https://youtu.be/zmwgmt7wcv8 chom choms :D 00:26:18 hppavilion[1]! 00:26:53 This is what I see: ¯\(°[ZWSP]_o)/¯ 00:27:56 ¯\([ZERO WIDTH SPACE])/¯ 00:28:29 o/^ ([ZERO WIDTH SPACE]) o/^ 00:28:38 kaoD: do you realize that your program is equivalent to ....(+)*-1 ? 00:28:45 i am tempted to actually use that word 00:28:47 or wait 00:29:01 actually just ...(+)*-1 00:30:25 `learn The IPA (short for International Phonetic Abjad) is an international standard encoding all non-vowel sounds in all spoken languages, and is used to indicate the pronunciation of words. It is incredibly useful, unless you need to pronounce a word. 00:30:27 Learned 'ipa': The IPA (short for International Phonetic Abjad) is an international standard encoding all non-vowel sounds in all spoken languages, and is used to indicate the pronunciation of words. It is incredibly useful, unless you need to pronounce a word. 00:30:28 chom chom mussins 00:31:37 *muffins 00:31:49 i am too tired 00:32:09 [note 1] on the wikipedia page for the IPA is "The acronym 'IPA' strictly refers [...] to the 'International Phonetic Association'. But it is now such a common practice to use the acronym also to refer to the alphabet itself (from the phrase 'International Phonetic Alphabet') that resistance seems pedantic. Context usually serves to disambiguate the two usages." 00:32:25 Whoever wrote that clearly doesn't really get the IPA 00:33:02 why? 00:33:04 hppavilion[1]: why did you put a ZWSP in it again? 00:33:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:33:46 adu: I didn't, HackEgo does it automatically so that it doesn't alert people who are idling 00:34:02 alert people... 00:34:08 I'm confused 00:34:15 -!- augur has joined. 00:35:34 is there something special about ZWSP that bypasses the rules of search? 00:37:21 or are you saying there is a user named °_o and if you were to use that, then you would notify them, and so you use °[ZWSP]_o so that you don't wake them up? 00:37:25 <\oren\> `? adu 00:37:26 Do you know adu? Adu adu adu adu adu! 00:37:48 adu: Most peoples' clients beep when someone says their name 00:38:02 ya i know 00:38:10 That's why I keep prefacing my messages with 'adu: ', so you know that I just replied to you] 00:38:12 <\oren\> Mine flashes the screen, but it's the same principle 00:38:18 hppavilion[1]: but I'm still confused about the ZWSP 00:38:19 \oren\: Yes, that counts too 00:38:50 adu: The ZWSP prevents most clients from alerting the user 00:38:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:39:03 Because usually when HackEgo says someone's name, it isn't actually talking to them 00:39:07 hppavilion[1]: is there a user named "°_o"? 00:39:43 adu: No, but HackEgo can't really tell who is and isn't a user, so it ZWSPs... everything, I guess 00:39:55 \oren\: Does ZWSP prevent most clients from looking later in the message? 00:40:12 My client beeps, the tray icon flashes until I open it, and the message is highlighted in green 00:40:12 <\oren\> I don't know. 00:40:17 OK 00:40:29 <\oren\> let's test 00:40:29 adu: But the [ZWSP] only appears one time per message? 00:40:35 Ah, yes 00:40:40 I forgot that I can do things 00:40:40 hppavilion[1]: no, every time you do the crazy eyes 00:40:50 <\oren\> `` echo "hppavilion[1]" 00:40:50 hppavilion[1] 00:40:59 I don't see the crazy eyes, I only see "¯\(°[ZWSP]_o)/¯" 00:41:00 adu: One time per HackEgo message, I mean 00:41:14 It alerted me then 00:41:19 Try again with my client closed 00:41:20 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "hppavilion[1] "x2;' 00:41:20 hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] 00:41:52 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("hppav"."ilion[1] ")x2;' 00:41:53 I also got alerted there 00:41:53 hppavilion[1] 00:42:06 Hm... 00:42:12 my question has absolutely nothing to do with alerts, or username, my question is why is there a ZWSP in "¯\(°[ZWSP]_o)/¯"? 00:42:20 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print (("hppav"."ilion[1] ")x2);' 00:42:20 OTOH, the thing meant to prevent me from being alerted doesn't work quite right on my client 00:42:22 hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] 00:42:28 Like, it highlights up to the ZWSP 00:42:33 adu: Yeah, I'm not sure at this point 00:42:42 quintopia: oh, didn't know -1 is infinite expansion 00:42:42 Are there ZWSPs in any other HackEgo messages? 00:42:50 `echo Is there a ZWSP here, adu? 00:42:51 Is there a ZWSP here, adu? 00:42:54 hppavilion[1]: only the crazy eyes 00:42:57 Huh 00:42:59 Maybe it's a joke? 00:43:08 I'm not sure then 00:43:18 I think it's a typo (mistake) that everyone has been copy-pasting until the end of time 00:43:28 If I had to guess who knew, it'd be oerjan, Taneb, or ais523 00:43:36 <\oren\> `? sdfghj 00:43:36 sdfghj? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:43:47 <\oren\> ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:43:57 <\oren\> does mine have a zwsp? 00:44:12 to me, that line looks like: sdfghj? "¯\(°[ZWSP]_o)/¯" 00:44:24 \oren\: yes 00:44:40 Your line looks like <\oren\> ¯\(°[ZWSP]_o)/¯ 00:44:48 <\oren\> ok, let me try to enter it manually 00:45:03 maybe it is necessary to not compose stuff 00:45:24 Oh 00:45:27 Huh 00:45:36 <\oren\> `` echo '¯\(°​_o)/¯' | od -c 00:45:37 0000000 302 257 \ ( 302 260 342 200 213 _ o ) / 302 257 \n \ 0000020 00:45:51 `` echo '¯\(°​_o)/¯' | xxd 00:45:52 0000000: c2af 5c28 c2b0 e280 8b5f 6f29 2fc2 af0a ..\(....._o)/... 00:46:00 adu: In that case, it's either added by the server or by your client 00:46:09 !zjoust sorry ->[]<(+)*-1 00:46:11 kaoD.sorry: points -11.86, score 16.31, rank 16/47 (--) 00:46:21 `unidecode I don't see it on my end 00:46:22 ​[U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0027 APOSTROPHE] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+0074 LA 00:46:31 whops 00:46:33 *whoops 00:46:35 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(\342"' 00:46:36 ​¯\(â 00:47:00 `unidecode ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:47:00 ​[U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON] 00:47:02 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(\342\200\213_o)/\302\257\n";' 00:47:03 ​¯\(​_o)/¯ 00:47:14 <\oren\> um. 00:47:22 <\oren\> ok why 00:47:27 Huh, so the ZWSP is built into the ¯\(°​_o)/¯- at least as copied from \oren\ 00:47:54 <\oren\> yes, and without it the degree sign doesn't show up 00:48:02 \oren\: Probably so the degree sign doesn't merge with the _ or something? 00:48:26 So I guess it's added by either the outgoing client or by the server (probably the former) 00:48:58 hppavilion[1]: The zero-width space is added to any HackEgo output that doesn't start with letters (for some definition of letter). 00:49:15 fizzie: Yes, but it came from \oren\ too 00:49:24 Well, I don't know where \oren\ got it 00:49:35 and it wasn't at the start 00:49:40 I assume e copied it symbol-by-symbol from a unicode page 00:49:45 I wouldn't know about that. But when HackEgo does it, it's a botloop prevention thing -- bot trigger characters tend to be [^A-Za-z0-9]. 00:49:46 besodes noodling, hackego does not change output 00:49:54 Aaaaah 00:50:05 `echo *i 00:50:05 OK 00:50:06 ​*i 00:50:11 adu: Did it appear there? 00:50:13 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(\343\202\234_o)/\302\257\n";' 00:50:14 ​¯\(゜_o)/¯ 00:50:22 now lets see without the ZWSP, what do YOU SEE? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:50:33 It's normal for me 00:50:43 `unidecode > ​*i 00:50:43 ​[U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+002A ASTERISK] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] 00:50:49 hppavilion[1]: The degree symbol is not a combiner 00:50:50 (Copy-pasted from the *i output.) 00:50:59 hppavilion[1]: you shouldn't have to combine it with anything 00:51:18 if you do, then that's a bug in your OS 00:51:30 Yep 00:52:18 \oren\: what do you mean it "doesn't show up?"? 00:52:30 Oh, and the zero-width space *inside* the face is to stop the old myndzi script from triggering. 00:52:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:52:44 <\oren\> adu: when I do 00:52:49 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(\342\200\213_o)/\302\257\n";' 00:52:49 Just so we wouldn't get the stick figure bodies for every non-existent wisdom. 00:52:50 ​¯\(​_o)/¯ 00:53:07 <\oren\> I see (_o) as the face 00:53:48 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(\302\260_o)/\302\257\n";' 00:53:49 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:53:55 <\oren\> ooooooo 00:54:01 <\oren\> Never mind 00:54:41 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(゚_o)/\302\257\n";' 00:54:42 ​¯\(゚_o)/¯ 00:55:14 <\oren\> Hmm I think ゚ fits better than ° 00:55:23 fizzie: Bah! Why not!? 00:55:57 <\oren\> ¯\(゚_o)/¯ 00:56:16 perl -e 'print "\302\257\134\050\302\260\342\200\213\137\157\051\057\302\257\012\n";' 00:56:19 `perl -e 'print "\302\257\134\050\302\260\342\200\213\137\157\051\057\302\257\012\n";' 00:56:20 No output. 00:56:24 `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\134\050\302\260\342\200\213\137\157\051\057\302\257\012\n";' 00:56:25 ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:56:28 hppavilion[1]: Ask oerjan, I guess: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/fec2e65e53bc 00:56:47 WTF is perl doing 00:57:35 <\oren\> perl -e 'print "\342\200\213"' 00:57:51 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\342\200\213"' 00:57:52 ​​ 00:58:09 @messages- 00:58:09 APic said 7h 45m 8s ago: Thank You very much Dude, that was a quite helpful Message indeed! 00:58:38 `` perl -e 'print "\302\257\\(\302\260_o)\302\257\012\n";' 00:58:39 ​¯\(°_o)¯ 00:58:41 @tell oerjan hi 01:00:40 hppavilion[1]: because having every nonexisting wisdom come with extra multiline noise got old _fast_ hth 01:02:25 @tell shachaf 'evning 01:02:45 -!- augur has joined. 01:03:06 Consider it noted. 01:03:28 i did not see that one coming. 01:04:15 <\oren\> `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:04:16 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:05:09 <\oren\> `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:05:11 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:05:39 <\oren\> `? + 01:05:39 (Also, why don't we still have that?) 01:05:40 ​+? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:05:47 \0/ 01:05:56 adu: protip: you can use ` with perl -e if you _don't_ quote the command hth 01:07:14 hmm 01:07:20 I had an idea 01:07:35 imagine an esolang where you can define functions 01:07:51 and you have lua varargs and tail call optimization 01:07:54 and nothing else 01:08:01 can you write complete programs with only that? 01:08:05 APNG: are you different from APic? you have different whois but i am getting a bit confused. 01:08:22 oerjan, I'm Soni... who's APic ? 01:08:37 (thankfully du isn't a picture format. i think.) 01:09:07 APic: who are you twh 01:09:19 seems idle. 01:09:54 APNG: have you heard of lambda calculus or combinatory logic? 01:10:14 or unlambda, an esolang based on the latter. 01:10:24 yeah that's the inspiration for the idea, kinda 01:10:52 hmm 01:11:00 #esoteric hold em 01:11:04 any lambda calculus with tracing JIT? 01:11:18 that sounds like it'd be very efficient 01:11:22 don't ask me. 01:11:28 ("there is no apostrophy in "em" because "em" in this case is the proper pronoun, not the quasislang term) 01:11:39 s/apostrophy/apostrophe/ 01:11:40 just considering my experience with tracing JITs and tail calls and varargs 01:11:50 (altho I guess lambda calculus doesn't have varargs...) 01:12:51 you can do varargs in lambda calculus 01:13:16 but you need a way to pass the number of arguments. 01:13:48 (well, you can use a church numeral.) 01:14:28 hmm that sounds hard to trace... 01:14:43 maybe I'll stick with luajit :/ 01:14:57 (Also, why don't we still have that?) <-- please clarify "that" hth 01:15:23 oerjan: the "old myndzi script" 01:15:30 That adds bodies to stick figures 01:15:34 That sounds AWESOME 01:15:48 that sounds like something that you should be kept far away from hth 01:16:18 oerjan: very clever hth 01:16:18 hppavilion[1]: ask myndzi 01:16:24 shachaf: thx 01:16:38 oerjan: hand 01:16:45 oerjan: myndzi is a bot, isn't e? 01:16:54 hppavilion[1]: nope 01:16:58 Oh 01:17:02 myndzi: Hi? 01:17:24 what e is, is 23 hours idle. sigh. 01:17:59 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Face cards for King/Queen, as normal, plus Bishops, Knights, and Rooks ) 01:18:08 (no jack, I guess) 01:18:23 (But I've never really understood Jacks.) 01:18:28 (Who the hell is Jack?) 01:18:30 -!- Kaynato has joined. 01:20:21 all i know his surname is Shit, and no one understands him. 01:20:30 *know is 01:21:16 a lot of people seem to know him though 01:23:36 i think that's the same kind of people who could care less. 01:31:15 I could care less. 01:39:48 The suits in #esoteric hold em are, of course, Clovers, Clubs, Tiles, Diamonds, Amethysts, Aquamarines, Emeralds, Rubies, Sapphires, Moonstones, Sunstones, Opals, Topazes, Turquoises, Ambers, Ivories, Pearls, Hearts, Livers, Gallbladders, Pancreases, Stomachs, Small Intestines, Large Intestines, Bladders, Lungs, Kidneys, Spleens, Pikes, and Spades, plus the extra Tarot suit 01:40:14 I think Double Fanucci is simpler. 01:40:36 "The original 15 suits (Mazes, Books, Rain, Bugs, Fromps, Inkblots, Scythes, Plungers, Faces, Time, Lamps, Hives, Ears, Zurfs, and Tops) each have eleven cards, valued at 0-9 and Infinity. The face cards are as follows: Granola, Death, Light, the Snail, Beauty, Time, the Grue, the Lobster, and the Jester." 01:40:58 Add Pentacles, Swords, Cups, and Wands too 01:41:57 Dammit 01:44:58 shachaf: Also, you cannot play a king until we've figured out exactly who's king right now, as it's a very convoluted issue that we've been trying to figure out for at least 8 years 01:45:05 `? fizzie 01:45:06 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg 01:46:04 Each Queen in the deck can be either a Queen Consort, Queen Regent, or Queen Regnant 01:46:47 you also need a Drama Queen hth 01:46:59 O, so you have the French suits, Latin suits, and Fanucci suits, and also many others. 01:47:53 (Although, Pentacles are really just a style variant for the suit of Coins; some tarot decks have pentagrams on the coins, but this is not a requirement.) 01:49:09 oerjan: Ah, yes 01:49:23 zzo38: Do you know about differential geometry? 01:49:29 oerjan: Drama Queen is in the same "Suit" (the "other suit") as Joker 01:50:17 Along with Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, Harley Quinn, Clayface, Man-Bat, and Killer Crock 01:50:20 Tuxedo hth 01:50:28 shachaf: I am not sure 01:50:30 oerjan: Sure? 01:50:40 What does differential geometry mean? 01:50:50 I was hoping you would know. 01:50:58 Cale told me there are no good books on it. 01:51:13 (Also, the Wands are really simply Rods. The kind of rods may differ between decks, so in some cases they are wands.) 01:51:37 i thought spivak's books were recommended? not that i've read any. 01:51:58 If a Pawn card defeats a King, it becomes Lord Protectorate, which is /definitely/ not a King (but is really exactly the same in every way) 01:53:10 oerjan: Which ones? 01:53:15 What kind of game is that anyways? 01:53:34 shachaf: the ones with pictures, i think. 01:53:35 <\oren\> What if we had a game mixing up mahjong with shogi 01:53:44 oerjan: Not _Calculus on Manifolds_? 01:53:51 \oren\: I did try to think of such thing at one time but I don't know how 01:53:53 perhaps? 01:54:06 oerjan: I have that one. But it's not the one with pictures. 01:54:08 you are asking me about something i've explicitly told i haven't read? 01:54:15 darn. 01:54:16 Maybe you're thinking of https://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Introduction-Differential-Geometry-Vol/dp/0914098705 and so on. 01:54:24 "The earth revolves around the Sun, but only while it's waxing" 01:54:25 PROBABLY 01:55:23 hppavilion[1]: maybe the Pawn could also become General Secretary hth 01:55:42 Ah, yes 01:56:13 <\oren\> I took a course which had some calculus on manifolds in it. IIRC I got a good mark in it. I don't really remember much of it though 01:56:30 \oren\: Do you know Stokes' theorem? 01:56:54 <\oren\> Yes 01:56:56 \oren\ has been completely stoked 01:57:47 oerjan: as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgXObaM9i2Q ? 01:57:58 <\oren\> it says the integral of something over the boundary of a thingy it equal to the integral of the thing's derivative over the whole surface 01:58:14 <\oren\> iirc 01:58:26 Right. What are these things? 01:58:47 <\oren\> uh, the first thing is a differential form 01:58:57 <\oren\> the second thing is probably a manifold 01:58:59 What are those? 01:59:10 What should I read to be an expert in differential forms? 01:59:53 <\oren\> a differential form is basically a function 02:01:00 <\oren\> but it's equipped with a thing that tells you which way the output is oriented 02:01:17 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 02:01:51 <\oren\> like if you have a f(x,y) -> (u,v) and you know the directions in which u and v are pointed you have a differential 2-form f 02:02:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:02:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:05:27 <\oren\> And the derivative stokes theorem refers to, 02:05:47 <\oren\> is a thing thattells you not only the slope but which way the slope goes. 02:06:43 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:07:06 <\oren\> so if your function f(x,y) outputs only one thing u, then df outputs two things, the slope over x and the slope over y, at that point 02:08:29 <\oren\> shachaf: so then if you take the derivative of a 2-form f on a 3-manifold then you get a df that has six dimensions of output 02:11:15 <\oren\> effectiively stokes theorem implies, amog other things that if there's some net flux outward from an area, then that net flux has to originate somewhere in the area 02:13:06 Has anybody ever made a system of serious government with "referee" as a position one can hold? 02:14:04 -!- hppavilion[2] has set topic: Absurdly long attention span. We'd fill this with several dozen novels' worth of text, but Freenode can't handle it. | The string theory channel | The interdisciplinary strange loop of Esoteric Programming Language Design and Deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808. 02:16:44 hppavilion[2]: well norwegian doesn't have separate words for referee and judge, so... 02:16:54 Oh 02:17:04 I suppose that technically applies... 02:17:07 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 02:17:34 (Am I supposed to register my backup nicks? I assume so, but I haven't yet) 02:18:07 Use the NS GROUP command. 02:18:16 hppavilion[1]: yes 02:18:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has changed nick to hppavilion[2]. 02:19:00 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 02:19:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: Absurdly long attention span. We'd fill this with several dozen novels' worth of text, but Freenode can't handle it. | The interdisciplinary string loop of Esoteric Programming Language Design and Deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808. 02:20:58 oh hm 02:21:11 -!- oerjan has set topic: Absurdly long attention span. We'd fill this with several dozen novels' worth of text, but Freenode can't handle it. | The interdisciplinary string loop of Esoteric Programming Language Design and Deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 02:21:23 Venerarchy: The awesomer you are, the more power you have 02:21:26 hppavilion[1]: you already made it too long tdnh 02:21:31 Excellent 02:21:53 Audaciarchy: The most absurd policy automatically wins 02:22:11 the dogs now howl 02:22:22 did you know wolves typically only bark when they are pups? 02:22:23 @google the dogs now howl 02:22:25 https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-behavior/barking-and-howling/why-do-dogs-howl 02:22:31 mature wolves don't usually bark 02:22:35 shachaf: Like cats meowing 02:22:39 <\oren\> shachaf: I just went and dug up my textbook. It's http://fourier.math.uoc.gr/~papadim/calculus_on_manifolds/Munkres.pdf 02:22:59 but due to a spot of the neoteny, dogs never fully mature or something 02:23:00 (A policy is proposed, and a time limit is set to propose alternatives. At the end of the time limit, the most audacious policy is approved) 02:23:07 Cale: Any opinion on Munkres? 02:23:08 (As chosen by an impartial third party) 02:23:14 Cale: You said you hate everything. 02:23:43 <\oren\> Also, for some reason it is online in full in that professor's home directory 02:24:03 The idea is that, eventually, equilibrium is reached- in order to get a policy you like more approved, you have to make it so ridiculous that it defeats the purpose 02:24:29 ("We set up a program to offer medical care to people who need it, but it is only available to married bachelors") 02:24:35 <\oren\> Well, that's nice of him, many students can';t afford textbooks with the tuitions these days 02:24:53 Neotenarchy: The most childish people make all the decisions 02:31:40 `? oerjan 02:31:41 Your mysterious reanimate œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 02:32:03 they're extraordinary, so better be wary 02:34:21 Michael O'Leary appears to be the Irish Trump 02:35:16 \oren\: In differential forms, d(dx) = 0, right? 02:36:12 laudarchy: A type of democracy where the winner is chosen via applause-o-meter 02:36:47 maybe you should get a twitter account hth 02:42:42 twitarchy 02:44:44 shachaf: I've only heard of his topology text 02:44:55 That one is well-known. 02:48:19 http://fourier.math.uoc.gr/~papadim/calculus_on_manifolds/Munkres.pdf -- skimming through this, it looks pretty decent actually 02:48:52 Man, integrals and things are pretty magical. 02:49:09 This might actually not suck, I'm surprised 02:49:27 Well, I already ordered Lee. 02:49:32 So I'll try reading that. 02:50:23 The derivative of f is so constrained that its integral can be evaluated just by looking at the values of f at the boundary. 02:50:42 Are there other things in maths that are like that? 02:51:23 Well, complex analysis takes that kind of thing to an absurd level :) 02:51:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:51:35 Right, I've heard that. 02:51:43 I should learn all about complex analysis too. 02:52:01 But I meant outside analysis. 02:52:21 hmm 02:55:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:56:12 In my head, it's similar to the way that in an ordinary category, if you have a polygon which commutes, there's nothing to say about why. (Thinking of 1-categories as a special case of higher dimensional ones.) 02:56:52 What do mean? 02:57:05 That you have equality rahter than isomorphism or something? 02:57:14 Well, that polygon is the boundary of something which is uniquely determined by it. 02:57:38 We don't usually even talk about that thing, in classical category theory 02:57:51 Sort of the "witness" that the diagram commutes 02:58:36 Is continuity related to naturality? 02:58:42 yes 02:58:49 How related? 02:59:24 I mean, there's the sort of obvious thing that you can't change the behavior of a natural transformation or continuous function at just one point. 02:59:29 Well, the usual analogy is that categories are sort of like spaces, and functors are sort of like continuous maps between those spaces, and then natural transformations are like homotopies between continuous maps 03:00:09 Right. But I don't think that's what I'm talking about. 03:00:18 That would make functoriality correspond to naturality. 03:00:22 Er, to continuity. 03:01:18 Well, for given F, G: C -> D, the natural transformations F -> G are the same thing as functors C x I -> D, where I is the category with two objects and one non-identity arrow: 0 -> 1. 03:01:38 and so natural transformations are like continuous maps of a particular sort 03:01:53 But maybe that's still not what you're after 03:02:46 oh, sorry, not just any functors of that type 03:03:01 The European Cheek Kiss thing (henceforth ECK) is akin to a US hug 03:03:19 Functors H: C x I -> D for which H(-,0) = F, and H(-,1) = G 03:03:35 And in France, a US hug is about the same as a ECK is to Americans 03:04:14 (henceforth ECK) 03:04:14 At what longitude (and perhaps latitudes, if it isn't a perfect vertical line) do these switch? 03:04:35 Cale: >.< 03:04:43 `? ECK 03:04:43 ECK? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:04:45 And is it a hard switch, or is there a region of transition? 03:05:13 During which ECK and hugs are equally acceptable or unacceptable (and which?) 03:05:14 I believe that region is called the Atlantic Ocean 03:05:35 Cale: But even in international waters, it's weird near the US but not near Europe 03:06:01 My guess is there is a transition zone, and in the Northern hemisphere they're both acceptable whereas in the Southern hemisphere they're both weird 03:10:55 [July, 2026] "Good evening. Leading off tonight, a recent McGill University study finds that every Montreal resident between ages 16 and 60 has had sex with everyone else" 03:17:34 Unless there aren't so many people in Montreal at that time, I would expect such a thing to be unlikely. 03:21:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:27:20 <\oren\> ARGH 03:27:41 <\oren\> I'm trying to live stream my desktop with VLC, but youtube isn't getting it 03:34:13 @tell hppavilion[1] you seem to be mistaking Europe for a country tdnh. ECKs aren't really acceptable in norway between nonrelated adults. 03:34:13 Consider it noted. 03:38:32 "We realized that we were looking at something that no one had ever seen in the wild before. Literally a click on a link to jailbreak an iPhone in one step" 03:38:36 Isn't that what comex did? 03:38:46 Or did jailbreakme require more than that? 03:42:49 <\oren\> can you guys see this https://gaming.youtube.com/user/0r3nw4750n/live 03:43:11 <\oren\> I'm testing this stupid streaming thing 03:44:47 <\oren\> like, I can barely see anything, so... 03:45:27 It's a bit low resolution but yes 03:45:52 <\oren\> and can you hear my voice ok 03:45:56 yes 03:46:13 It's a bit lagged though 03:46:29 Both video and sound are behind. I was a bit confused at first 03:46:35 <\oren\> ok, good now I'm gonna try to get a game to run at the same time as the streaming thing 03:48:06 Hmm, I should try streaming Worms Armageddon at some point 03:55:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:56:48 #Trump20000000000000000016 03:56:59 @massages-lud 03:57:00 oerjan said 22m 46s ago: you seem to be mistaking Europe for a country tdnh. ECKs aren't really acceptable in norway between nonrelated adults. 03:57:41 oerjan: Oh. But OTOH, they aren't really accepted between related adults either in the US, or at least they're a little weird 03:57:44 hppavilion[1]: and barely then, actually. 03:57:51 Oh, nvm 03:58:13 hppavilion[1]: i thought you meant they were accepted in france (which i've also heard) 03:58:23 They are 03:58:59 definitely, you would use hugs for greeting in norway, and you'd want to be somewhat close even then. 03:59:16 I don't even have W:A installed! 03:59:20 (otherwise defaulting to handshake) 04:01:16 So Norway is basically the US, except with happier people, better healthcare, public taxes, free university, and more singing ice queens. 04:01:22 YEP 04:01:30 wait, ice queens? 04:01:36 Hmm, maybe we should give Minnesota back to Norway. 04:01:38 i may be slightly out of the loop there. 04:02:46 (i guess you might be referring to that frost thing. which is based on a danish tale, anyway.) 04:03:35 pikhq: When did Norway own Minnesota? 04:03:40 oerjan: Frozen. It's called Frozen. 04:03:44 Literally? Never. 04:03:48 argh 04:03:55 hppavilion[1]: see, i'm out of the llop. 04:04:07 In effect? Well, Minnesota is basically Norway only with English, fewer fjords, and more lakes. 04:04:07 pikhq: Did it ever pwn Minnesota? 04:04:16 it may have been called than in norway. checking... 04:04:24 (Minnesota was largely settled by Norwegians) 04:04:28 yep. 04:04:38 * oerjan hasn't seen it, anyway 04:04:50 * oerjan has read the fairy tale at one point 04:05:24 -!- digitalcold has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:05:32 Huh, The Snow Queen does take place in Denmark (Daneland?) 04:06:01 well it starts there, it does have some travelling northward. 04:06:33 -!- digitalcold has joined. 04:06:37 But I'm pretty sure Frozen takes place in Norway (the appearance was based on going to Norway and looking around) 04:07:04 well sure. 04:07:28 not much reindeer in denmark. 04:07:35 Also, one of the big plot points is that SOMEBODY freezes the fjord 04:08:14 -!- kaoD has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:08:51 (or, well, a minor plot point that is mentioned by name once, and is really just a smaller-level symbol of the general badness happening) 04:10:31 It also has Trolls 04:11:13 "Numerous other typical cultural Scandinavian elements are also included in the film, such as [...] Fjord horses, clothes...." 04:11:22 OH MY GOD IT HAS A MAYPOLE 04:11:45 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49673&oldid=49672 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+222) 04:11:53 The maypole isn't uniquely Scandinavian though. 04:13:33 AND THAT'S, LIKE, 1 LEVENSHTEIN AWAY FROM 'MAPOLE' 04:14:00 (embarrassingly, I needed to find an online calculator for that) 04:14:39 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49674&oldid=49673 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+70) 04:15:46 Two men apparently bicker over whether wood should be stacked bark-up or bark-down 04:21:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:51:32 The name of my Dungeons&Dragons character are Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe and Zeux Agem. Do you like these (two difference) way to make up the name of your character? 05:00:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:05:34 -!- Kaynato has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:05:43 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:05:59 -!- Kaynato has joined. 05:06:04 -!- MDude has joined. 05:06:20 -!- hocktineg has joined. 05:07:27 -!- hocktineg has left. 05:13:18 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: obviously, bark up 05:13:41 <\oren\> that helps stop the wood from rotting if your tarp gets blown off 05:14:56 \oren\: Or does it? 05:15:05 \oren\: I'm sorry, has Norway not invented science yet? 05:15:10 To solve this issue efficiently? 05:15:45 (Also, does \oren\ have eir IRC client set up so e can queue messages until someone comes back online?) 05:19:24 Also, is bark-up and bark-down a political thing? xD 05:20:48 I feel like bark should be up so water can't get in, and so that water that does get in would- in theory- seep out the bottom (while if the bark was on the bottom, it would all pool there) 05:21:00 But on the other hand 05:21:05 * hppavilion[1] mumbles something about evaporation 05:25:16 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: No \oren\ just runs his irc client on a constantly-running web server, and is pretty much always online assuming he is awake 05:26:39 <\oren\> hence I just wait until people come back online, and then start typing 05:27:31 <\oren\> oh am I mixing up mirc codes with ansi codes again 05:28:04 <\oren\> I just wait until people come back 05:48:46 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:58:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:01:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:10:43 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:16:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:28:09 <\oren\> `unicode ☬ 06:28:11 U+262C ADI SHAKTI \ UTF-8: e2 98 ac UTF-16BE: 262c Decimal: ☬ \ ☬ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 06:28:34 <\oren\> WTF, that is the sikh symbol... the name is completely wrong 06:31:03 No, the symbol is called Adi Shakti in Sikhism. 06:31:25 <\oren\> all the sources I can find say it's called a Khanda 06:32:20 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakti appears to be a goddess 06:32:28 <\oren\> from hinduism 06:38:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:06:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:08:00 -!- augur has joined. 07:12:34 -!- MDead has joined. 07:15:14 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:22:46 -!- carado has joined. 07:48:06 -!- Citrux has joined. 07:48:25 -!- pelegreno has joined. 08:16:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:11:05 -!- iaglium has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:11:56 -!- iaglium has joined. 10:57:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:59:50 -!- augur has joined. 11:01:04 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:01:24 -!- augur has joined. 11:02:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:11:10 -!- Citrux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:23:09 -!- boily has joined. 11:29:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Qwerp-Derp * New user account 11:49:55 `wisdom 11:49:56 but//But is a Trintercal operator. 11:52:34 -!- kline has quit (Changing host). 11:52:34 -!- kline has joined. 11:54:00 -!- kline has quit (Changing host). 11:54:00 -!- kline has joined. 12:12:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:18:31 -!- MDead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:18:51 -!- MDead has joined. 12:28:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LIMESTONE CHICKEN). 12:54:52 [wiki] [[Talk:ℒight]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49675 * TuxCrafting * (+3) Created page with "wat" 12:59:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 13:04:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:11:11 -!- Trey13 has joined. 13:19:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:19:26 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 13:22:42 -!- Trey13 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:38:43 -!- adu has joined. 13:48:37 APNG: I'm confident that lua ia Turing complete 14:08:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:09:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:19:52 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:21:31 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 14:28:57 wait 14:29:57 Apparently Questionable Content is copying the idea from qwantz that you can read tomorrow's strip today if you subscribe. 14:36:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:38:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:30:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:43:50 <\oren\> b_jonas: that would lead to problems every time there's a cliffhanger 16:07:48 `olist 1050 16:07:49 olist 1050: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 16:08:11 o 16:08:28 \oren\: why? subscribed people experience the same comic, just shifted about a day in time 16:10:18 <\oren\> b_jonas: the issue is if subscribed people comment on say, twitter about it 16:11:26 -!- Reece` has joined. 16:12:38 what are those? 16:17:43 \oren\: maybe 16:18:28 \oren\: that's absolutely not a problem with qwantz, and probably not much a problem with Questionable Content, since it rarely has cliffhangers that are suddenly resolved in a strip. 16:24:05 guess who just moved arin.ga to a new host 16:25:29 oh gawd i broke it 16:27:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:27:58 i fixed it 16:28:28 i broke it again -.- 16:33:18 <\oren\> it's hard to diagnose website failures with all the caching that goes on 16:33:47 <\oren\> there should be a cacheless mode for firefox 16:35:17 <\oren\> instead you have to know to hold shift while pressing the reload button 16:40:24 \oren\: you can disable using firefox's cache at least, with the developer tools (or with certain plugins) 16:40:48 (the server or proxy it contacts might still be doing some caching) 16:44:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:52:58 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033\133\062\111foobar";' 16:52:59 ​[2Ifoobar 16:53:10 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033\133\062\101foobar";' 16:53:10 ​[2Afoobar 16:53:38 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[31mfoobar";' 16:53:38 ​[31mfoobar 16:53:48 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[3Afoobar";' 16:53:48 ​[3Afoobar 16:54:21 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[2Jfoobar";' 16:54:22 ​[2Jfoobar 16:55:03 <\oren\> ok, so irssi at least doesn't let ansi sequences go through and mess up people's terminals 16:55:44 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\tfoobar";' 16:55:44 ​foobar 16:57:20 all fixed woohoooo \o/ 16:59:54 \oren\: I think that might be replaced HackEgo-side maybe 17:01:04 or maybe not? hm 17:08:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:10:13 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[3mfoobar";' 17:10:13 ​[3mfoobar 17:10:28 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[2mfoobar";' 17:10:29 ​[2mfoobar 17:10:38 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[4mfoobar";' 17:10:39 ​[4mfoobar 17:10:42 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[5mfoobar";' 17:10:43 ​[5mfoobar 17:11:02 <\oren\> oh, irssi supports blink but not underline? 17:11:23 \oren\: I see the underline 17:11:26 But no blinking 17:11:46 <\oren\> maybe it's apple terminal 17:11:48 Also I'm surprised HackEgo doesn't filter out \033 17:11:58 weechat seems to render the \x1B as '?' 17:13:02 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[6mfoobar";' 17:13:03 ​[6mfoobar 17:13:11 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[7mfoobar";' 17:13:11 ​[7mfoobar 17:13:16 <\oren\> reverse video 17:13:32 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[9mfoobar";' 17:13:32 ​[9mfoobar 17:13:38 irssi by default supports these escapes too, in addition to IRC formatting 17:14:07 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[92mfoobar";' 17:14:07 ​[92mfoobar 17:14:14 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[102mfoobar";' 17:14:14 ​[102mfoobar 17:14:20 <\oren\> no bright colors 17:14:22 `` printf "\x02Bold test\x02"" 17:14:24 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 17:14:28 `` printf "\x02Bold test\x02" 17:14:29 ​Bold test 17:14:37 Ok, that doesn't get filtered out either 17:14:51 <\oren\> FreeFull: but that's a mirc escape 17:14:55 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[1mfoobar";' 17:14:56 ​[1mfoobar 17:15:11 `` printf "Really important" 17:15:12 ​Really important 17:15:41 Some clients render inverse video as italics 17:15:51 <\oren\> I see reverse video with underline 17:16:21 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\033[4mfoobar";' 17:16:21 ​[4mfoobar 17:16:25 <\oren\> but that doesn 17:16:28 <\oren\> t work 17:16:37 FreeFull: I think HackEgo only handles those three bytes specially that can't appear in an irc message protocol-wise. 17:16:47 I see 17:17:03 So it'll filter out \x01 ? 17:17:10 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\x01foobar";' 17:17:11 ​.foobar 17:17:18 other bots differ, eg. jevalbot doesn't let you print colored stuff 17:17:33 FreeFull: no, \x01 is only a client convention 17:17:35 Yeah, the easy solution is to filter out all control characters 17:17:39 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\tfoobar";' 17:17:39 ​foobar 17:17:48 <\oren\> I see a reverse video I 17:17:55 b_jonas: It did filter \x01 out though 17:18:22 FreeFull: did it? 17:18:28 I haven't looked at the raw stuff 17:18:41 b_jonas: It replaced it with a . 17:18:43 maybe I misremembered then. does it also change \x10 ? 17:19:11 What does \x10 do? 17:19:41 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\20foobar";' 17:19:41 ​foobar 17:20:06 <\oren\> apparently not 17:20:15 <\oren\> I see a reverse video P 17:20:33 \oren\: That's how irssi displays ^P 17:20:42 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\x10foobar";' 17:20:42 ​foobar 17:20:51 <\oren\> \x10 == \20 17:21:00 <\oren\> fewer characters 17:21:02 Yeah, seems HackEgo doesn't filter it out 17:21:31 \x0A will definitely be treated specially 17:22:14 `` perl -e 'print "foo\x01bar";' 17:22:15 foo.bar 17:22:20 I guess that is to prevent CTCPs 17:22:29 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "foo\12bar";' 17:22:30 foo \ bar 17:23:02 FireFly: isn't the ctcp already prevented by the prefix it puts at the start of the message? 17:23:20 What prefix? 17:23:29 Not necessarily. if you go ""by the spec"", CTCPs are supposed to be allowed anywhere in a PRIVMSG 17:23:36 (and even multiple times) 17:23:36 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\200";' 17:23:37 ​€ 17:23:53 FreeFull: it prefixes lines with a ZWSP I believe 17:23:54 does anyone actually care about that spec? 17:23:58 No 17:24:00 Well 17:24:04 Some weird clients do, I think 17:24:41 FireFly: Lemme look at my logs 17:24:48 <\oren\> the prefix \xE3\x80\x8B 17:25:30 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\xE3\x80\x8B"' | od -c 17:25:31 0000000 343 200 213 \ 0000003 17:26:32 there's so many stupid specs. I care about what the servers actually do (which isn't very well documented, so the best way to find out is asking on the #freenode channel and TIAS) and what other people usually send through their client 17:27:28 FireFly: I don't see the ZWSP looking at my logs with a hex editor 17:27:42 <\oren\> `` dc -e '8i20o30013p' 17:27:43 300B 17:27:56 <\oren\> unicode 300B 17:27:58 <\oren\> `unicode 300B 17:27:59 ​》 17:28:07 <\oren\> huh? 17:28:48 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\xE2\x80\x8B"' | od -c 17:28:48 0000000 342 200 213 \ 0000003 17:28:55 <\oren\> `` dc -e '8i20o20013p' 17:28:56 200B 17:29:02 <\oren\> `unicode 200B 17:29:03 ​​ 17:29:24 <\oren\> `unidecode 200B 17:29:24 ​[U+0032 DIGIT TWO] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B] 17:29:36 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\xE2\x80\x8B"' | unidecode 17:29:37 No output. 17:29:37 FreeFull: hm yeah, I dunno 17:29:43 I guess I misremember 17:29:58 Or it only adds that prefix in some cases, or something 17:30:01 <\oren\> `` unidecode `perl -e 'print"\xE2\x80\x8B"'` 17:30:01 ​[U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] 17:30:06 <\oren\> there we go 17:30:22 FireFly: I've checked the rawlog, no prefix there either 17:30:32 Yeah, I can't see any either when I look 17:30:33 <\oren\> I finally translated ​ into the prefix 17:30:52 <\oren\> it's a zeero width space, it's invisible 17:31:11 <\oren\> try setting your broswer to windows 1252 17:31:29 <\oren\> you should see ​ in front of every hackego message 17:31:32 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:31:49 \oren\: I'm not using a web browser to look at IRC 17:31:52 Or at the logs 17:32:31 Well, I guess I could open the logs in Firefox, won't change anything though 17:33:06 <\oren\> It will if you go to view->encoding->western(1252) 17:33:33 Oh, that's bizzarre 17:33:38 Why didn't it show up in the hex editor? 17:33:43 <\oren\> that will allow you to see the raw bytes, with the encoding as seen here http://www.orenwatson.be/cp1252.htm 17:34:08 Ah 17:34:13 Maybe it does prefix only certain messages 17:35:07 \tfoobar got prefixed 17:35:12 foo.bar didn't get prefixed 17:35:32 \oren\: It's not in front of every hackego message, only a few of them 17:37:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:40:38 <\oren\> weird, maybe just ones that contain a possible bot prefix at the start? 17:41:16 \oren\: All the ones starting with control characters had it at the start 17:43:15 Allowing CTCPs anywhere in a message is something that my client does. 17:44:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:45:27 b_jonas: one of the better pages on CTCP that I've found is http://www.kvirc.net/doc/doc_ctcp_handling.html 17:59:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:18:47 <\oren\> ok let's see if this works 18:18:59 <\oren\> ❄ping 18:19:17 <\oren\> ok it doesn't 18:21:46 <\oren\> or, it doesn't for me, because the script is running on my irssi 18:21:51 <\oren\> hmmm 18:22:10 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:23:30 -!- Zarutian_ has joined. 18:23:30 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:31 -!- Zarutian_ has changed nick to Zarutian. 18:28:56 <\oren\> never mind, I'll learn how to make bots later 18:44:09 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:56:36 ❄ping 18:56:39 nope 19:26:27 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:28:58 copumpkin: hipumpkin 19:31:53 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:35:04 <\oren\> hmmm... I need to figure out how to respond to messages. 19:38:02 <\oren\> s/.$/ automatically./ 19:39:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:48:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:50:32 -!- puck1pedia has joined. 19:51:28 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:51:28 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:51:28 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:51:28 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:51:35 -!- myname has joined. 19:52:04 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:52:04 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:52:04 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:52:07 -!- puck1pedia has changed nick to puckipedia. 19:52:16 -!- nortti has joined. 19:52:18 New rule: You use two spaces after a period, but one of them has to be zero-width 19:52:57 what for 19:53:13 -!- int-e has joined. 19:53:23 -!- rodgort has joined. 19:53:58 Two halfwidth spaces is better. 19:54:23 neither makes any sense 19:57:28 -!- kline has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:58:53 -!- kline has joined. 20:04:00 -!- APic has joined. 20:04:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:04:40 -!- Jafet has joined. 20:05:16 <\oren\> ❄ping 20:06:15 -!- orentesting has joined. 20:06:21 ❄ping 20:06:33 ❄ping 20:07:04 ❄ping 20:07:16 <\oren\> argh 20:07:44 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:08:21 -!- Cale has joined. 20:19:05 <\oren\> ❄ping 20:19:13 ❄ping 20:19:13 <\oren\> pong 20:19:22 <\oren\> cool 20:19:28 <\oren\> wait. 20:19:34 <\oren\> I got the pong first 20:19:46 <\oren\> oh, beacuse of latency. lol 20:21:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:28:32 The ISO 2022 code with ESC % should be define for use with UTCE. Even if selected, other DEC 7-bit codes should remain available as done in the terminal emulator that it is implemented in, such as VT100 character graphic shift outs and some of the other ISO 2022 codes that are supported by DEC terminals. 20:30:08 <\oren\> ❄ping 20:30:08 <\oren\> pong 20:30:14 <\oren\> there we go 20:30:19 Apparently it would need to be register according to ISO 2375, but I don't know how that is working. 20:30:29 ❄ping 20:30:29 <\oren\> pong 20:30:34 <\oren\> good 20:30:45 -!- orentesting has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:30:53 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:35:55 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:37:00 <\oren\> ok, now I'll just add the actualy features I wanted 20:39:07 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:54:16 -!- kaoD has joined. 20:54:53 kaoD.sorry: points -12.02, score 15.84, rank 16/47 (--) 20:55:03 wooops 20:55:21 kaoD.sorry: points -12.07, score 16.16, rank 16/47 (--) 20:56:32 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 3 200 terrier 20:56:32 <\oren\> Δv = 0 20:56:42 <\oren\> nope not working 20:56:47 kaoD.sorry: points -11.86, score 16.31, rank 16/47 (--) 20:57:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:58:37 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 3 200 terrier 20:58:37 <\oren\> Δv = 4559.10340786059 20:58:46 <\oren\> ok cool 20:58:50 <\oren\> it's working 21:02:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:06:53 <\oren\> hooray, I turned my delta v perl script into a irssi bot thingy 21:21:09 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 11.70 720 poodle 21:21:09 <\oren\> Δv = 3945.4217824427 21:22:10 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 16.12 720 poodle 21:22:10 <\oren\> Δv = 2351.07486307313 21:36:37 -!- Reece` has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar). 21:40:17 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:42:46 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:45:00 -!- Nomn has joined. 21:48:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:55:52 -!- Cale has joined. 22:06:55 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:11:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:20:26 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 22:36:31 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:41:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:54:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:03:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:08:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:12:42 -!- boily has joined. 23:14:53 <\oren\> konboilyha! 23:16:13 <\oren\> I'm now a bot! with two commands: ❄ping and ❄dvcalc. 23:20:03 <\oren\> I figured that ❄ would never be taken as a bot prefix 23:20:10 ❄help 23:20:27 <\oren\> alercah: oh, I should add that 23:20:34 .win 69 23:21:18 ❄ping 23:21:18 <\oren\> pong 23:21:23 ha! 23:21:59 <\oren\> it took some work to get it to do it when *I* say ❄ping though 23:22:00 shame I have to copy & paste "❄" 23:22:45 <\oren\> DHeadshot: once you've done it once though, you can just push up 23:23:02 <\oren\> ❄ping see 23:23:02 <\oren\> pong 23:24:19 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 23:24:19 <\oren\> Does math for Δv of a vessel. Usage: dvcalc []; fuel types: lfo, olf, lf/nuk, xen, mono. If omitted, assumed to be lfo or the engine's type. 23:25:27 ❄ping - so it works with arguments? 23:25:27 <\oren\> pong 23:26:20 <\oren\> yes, but ping doesn't actually look at them 23:26:34 Fair enough 23:26:58 ❄ping 23:26:59 <\oren\> pong 23:27:00 ❄ping 23:27:00 <\oren\> pong 23:27:17 こんぼれんは! 23:27:40 allôrcah! 23:27:51 DHellodshellot! 23:27:57 ❄ping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHDmdpsNdlc 23:27:57 <\oren\> pong 23:29:39 <\oren\> for some reason none of the bot scripts I could find examples of were designed so that the bot can respond to itself 23:30:00 <\oren\> maybe they thought that was a bad idea for some reason 23:30:46 That's for safety, so I can't put "❄dvcalc ❄ping" or something 23:31:05 Don't want recursion... 23:31:24 <\oren\> the otput of dvcalc is just a number 23:31:51 you know what I mean though 23:31:53 <\oren\> the number of m/s your vessel has left before Jebediah is stranded in space 23:31:56 copumpkin: You can write a "with" composition function too, can't you? 23:33:31 copumpkin: Ah, https://docs.python.org/2/library/contextlib.html 23:33:32 Your own outgoing messages are protocolistically quite different from others' incoming messages. 23:34:00 \oren\: why is it dvcalc and not Δvcalc? 23:34:17 <\oren\> DHeadshot: yeah, so I'll make sure that if I add a thing that can output arbitrarystuff that there is some sort of preventer thingy 23:34:37 -!- Nomn has left. 23:34:55 <\oren\> fizzie: yeah, so I had to essentially write two handlers that eventually call the actual bot thingy 23:34:56 copumpkin: ..."Developers that need to support nesting of a variable number of context managers can either use the warnings module to suppress the DeprecationWarning raised by this function or else use this function as a model for an application specific implementation." 23:35:21 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:35:45 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 23:35:48 <\oren\> alercah: better not to have more than one character that needs to be copypasted 23:35:59 \oren\: you lack gusto 23:35:59 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:40:16 -!- DHeadshot_ has changed nick to DHeadshot. 23:44:20 `wisdom 23:44:22 the question//The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master. 23:44:56 is that so? 23:45:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:45:25 hellochaf. looks like it. 23:46:44 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:54:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.