00:00:40 okay 00:00:48 * oerjan hasn't heard that term before. 00:01:29 I really want a thing similar to saying positive/negative/zero, but multiplicative instead of additive; positive-analog is abs(x) > 1, negative-analog is abs(x) < 1, zero-analog is abs(x) = 1 00:02:17 hppavilion[1]: are you sure you mean abs there 00:02:28 oerjan: Yes. abs as in absolute value. 00:02:46 oh. 00:03:26 (I could call them "superlative", "sublative", and "one", perhaps) 00:04:05 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:05:14 Basically, the sign of n indicates whether lim(lambda x: n^x, omega) is 0, ±infinity, or... whatever it is when n = 1 or n = -1 00:05:27 hppavilion[1]: how about contractile and dilatory and one 00:05:39 quintopia: Yes! Great! 00:05:52 s/ile/ive/ 00:05:56 ...are those existing words or did you come up wiht that? 00:06:16 oerjan: s/ory/ive/ 00:06:24 hppavilion[1]: maybe you should learn linear algebra by watching these videos: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/linear-algebra/eola-topic/eola/v/eola-preview 00:06:27 i heard they're good 00:06:28 i'm not sure of that. 00:06:31 you can confirm or deny it 00:06:48 (that was to hppavilion[1]) 00:07:07 shachaf: ty 00:07:37 shachaf: Oh! I think I'm already subscribed to the guy who makes that series, and I've been meaning to watch them! 00:08:20 oerjan: Why not dilatve? 00:08:30 well maybe. 00:08:42 i just don't think dilatory is wrong. 00:08:47 You can watch them right now. They're only about an hour, and split into separate segments. 00:08:50 Very visual. 00:08:58 More consistent 00:09:00 Yep 00:09:01 (Maybe a little too visual.) 00:09:11 i was using words that have other meanings on purpose 00:09:14 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: impomatic_). 00:09:15 And maybe a little bit too matrix-focused. But I'm not sure about that. 00:09:41 hm neither is contractile, indeed. 00:09:41 dilatory means "delaying" contractile refers to muscle tissue 00:12:06 quintopia: Well, also dilation in the sense of what they do to make your eyes bigger 00:28:59 -!- vifino- has quit (Quit: Who turned this off?! D:<). 00:29:21 -!- vifino has joined. 00:38:02 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Who turned this off?! D:<). 00:38:27 -!- vifino has joined. 00:53:41 int-e: Did you play Scowder & Web? 01:01:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:11:54 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:14:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:18:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:42 shachaf: ...the quote on video #3 is "Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself." -Morpheus 01:22:51 (about 4 millishachafs) 01:24:25 Wait, are shachafs an absolute measurement of pun (dimension P), or is it P/E (where E is the dimension of effort)? 01:25:12 Thus meaning even a REALLY funny joke gets a low score if it's two obvious, and something not very funny gets a high score if it takes some thinking to find it (but not to understand it)? 01:25:39 (I guess it'd be P/E^2 in that case, if we want to measure effort to make it vs. effort to get it) 01:27:57 My name is not a unit, please. 01:31:17 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:31:31 Oh, right, s/shachafs/grumpychafs/ 01:32:07 No word ending in chaf is a unit, please. 01:32:39 ...oh, right 01:32:55 Do "shagrumpies" trigger it? 01:35:22 the unit symbol is «Sh» hth. 01:37:05 How about: "grumps" or "groans" 01:37:12 Or oys. 01:37:28 As they say: The beauty of the pun is in the Oy of the beholder. 01:37:51 * boily experimentally thwacks shachaf. 0.63 groans. 01:37:58 that works. 01:46:23 -!- Moony has joined. 01:48:00 well i liked shachaf, but i guess this new unit may groan me. 01:49:59 * boily THWACKS oerjan. 0.94 groans. 01:50:57 a pun reaches 1.0 when it can make a groan man cry 01:51:20 (by the way i like the pun but i don't like the anti-crying masculinity scow) 01:51:23 (crying is great) 01:57:10 * boily thwackthwacks shachaf. 0.945 groans 01:58:23 `? boily 01:58:25 "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist. 01:58:48 `slwd boily//s/Man/Groan Man/ 01:58:50 wisdom/boily//"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist. 02:00:43 I like the fact Trigotillectomic is a hapax googlegomenon that directly points to me :D 02:01:06 I never read that word. 02:01:26 It always looked too complicated so I pretended it was "Trigonometric" or something and skipped it. 02:01:41 `? weather 02:01:42 lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK 02:01:45 CYUL 050000Z 00000KT 15SM SKC 15/10 A3031 RMK SLP268 \ ENVA 050050Z 11005KT CAVOK 03/01 Q1046 RMK WIND 670FT 14007KT \ ESSB 050050Z AUTO 35005KT 9999 NCD 04/02 Q1043 \ KOAK 050053Z 28011KT 10SM 02:01:45 FEW020 20/11 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP150 T02000106 02:03:01 15 is warm! 02:04:44 20 is cold 02:05:42 brrr 02:08:22 there should be a spaceheater lobbing service. you enter your ICBM coordinates on their website, and they trebuchet you a warmed up heater. 02:17:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 02:24:47 `wisdom 02:24:48 endofunctor//Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 02:24:51 `wisdom 02:24:52 loudly//Did you mean: loudly 02:24:53 `wisdom 02:24:55 persistence//Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since. 02:24:55 `wisdom 02:24:57 mroman//mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. 02:27:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLUE CHICKEN). 02:34:19 Idea to make a small amount of energy more impressive: Express it as a volume (in km^3 (or k(m^3) to make it even bigger)) of average space in the universe where, at the universe's average density, the mass in that space has E (by E = mc^2) equal to the energy 02:36:18 whoa, invented the identity function? 02:36:21 I use that one all the time. 02:37:06 `` echo identity | cat | cat | cat | cat 02:37:07 identity 02:37:43 ais523: what IS a hash worse than the identity function 02:37:56 hppavilion[1]: \x.0 02:37:58 i,i putting the cat before the hose 02:38:16 ais523: ...fair enough? 02:38:25 the identity function is actually a pretty good hash if your input is restricted enough 02:38:38 Java probably uses the identity function as Integer#hashCode, for example 02:38:39 ais523: And if people shouldn't be able to derive the input from the hash 02:38:49 that's a cryptohash, different field 02:39:02 ais523: Same idea, different subfield 02:39:29 perhaps 02:39:32 * hppavilion[1] suspects the proper mathematical answer to "what's a worse hash" requires that you formally define badness... 02:39:48 but speed hashes and cryptohashes are normally very different in design and the considerations for them are pretty much completely different 02:39:53 Oh, I decided on a better notation for "is a divisor of" today 02:40:18 the only middle ground I can think of is speed hashes that use a randomized algorithm to stop people intentionally colliding them to trigger algorithmic worst cases 02:41:09 Created by analogy that the subset symbol is like less-than-or-equal-to, strict subset like less-than, superset is like greater-than-or-equal-to, and strict superset is like greater-than 02:41:22 Divisor is like 'element of'. I guess. 02:41:48 Like a < with a stroke from the initial to the midpoint of the endpoints 02:43:20 ⪪ 02:43:31 `unidecode ⪪ 02:43:32 [U+2AAA SMALLER THAN] 02:44:08 `icode ⪬ 02:44:08 [U+2AAC SMALLER THAN OR EQUAL TO] 02:44:27 ⪤ 02:44:38 shachaf: how does `icode differ from `unidecode? 02:44:45 They are the same. 02:44:56 fair enough 02:45:00 ais523: Levenshtein 4 02:45:01 The joke is unicode -> icode 02:45:07 oh, I see 02:45:08 Granted, the only real appeals are completing the symbolic analogy, freeing up | for logical things (when you should already be using ∨ for OR and ⊼ for NAND), and being mirrorable 02:45:43 `unicode [U+2AAC SMALLER THAN OR EQUAL TO] 02:45:46 U+0000 \ UTF-8: 00 UTF-16BE: 0000 Decimal: � \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0001 \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal: \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal: \ \ Category: Cc (Other, C 02:45:57 shachaf: ...you lied to me 02:46:03 `unicode U+2AAC 02:46:03 ⪬ 02:46:07 (clearly, unicode = icode^-1) 02:48:07 -!- FreeFull has quit. 02:49:26 Matrices annoy me just a tiny bit because of their limit to 2D 02:49:56 Matrices are linear maps between vector spaces of any dimension. 02:50:05 shachaf: Yes, that's how I'm learning it 02:50:13 shachaf: I mean how they're WRITTEN in 2D 02:50:17 This is like saying that functions annoy you because there's only a domain and codomain. 02:50:24 shachaf: Yes, but... 02:50:26 If you want multi-argument functions, they are available. 02:50:26 *fine* 02:50:40 (Though technically, it's LITERALLY saying that) 02:50:41 And so are multi-argument linear maps. 02:50:49 shachaf: Yay? 02:50:59 Tensors might be what you want. 02:51:03 Yes, that too 02:51:04 Or they might not, who knows. 02:51:06 I tried learning that once 02:51:11 You can do a matrix fairly tolerably in 4D by treating it as a matrix where the individual values are themselves matrices 02:51:16 And I think all the math works 02:51:22 But a bilinear function : UxV -> W is the same as a linear function : U⊗V -> W 02:51:45 (And you can multiply them by normal matrices and call it scalars!) 02:51:46 A linear map : U -> V is also the same as an element of the vector space U*⊗V 02:52:26 (dim (U⊗V) = dim U * dim V) 02:58:39 -!- centrinia has joined. 03:04:36 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:12:30 -!- foo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:23:29 Since there's matrix multiplication, there must be division; but it isn't commutative, so... Oh my god. Are there TWO division operations for matrices? A/B = C : BC = A and A\B = C : CB = A? 03:23:40 No. 03:24:09 Neither the first nor the last statement is trur. 03:24:12 true 03:24:14 `? trurl 03:24:15 trurl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 03:24:19 hm 03:24:49 well the last is true. 03:25:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:25:46 although hm 03:25:54 Is it? 03:26:02 I don't think matrices are even a quasigroup. 03:26:12 if B isn't invertible, then division might not be uniquely defined. 03:26:20 Right. 03:26:24 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 03:27:13 basically because you can add any C' such that BC' = 0 (or vice versa) 03:27:37 and of course it might not exist to begin with. 03:28:05 but _if_ B is invertible, there may be two division operations. 03:29:39 hppavilion[1]: summary: division need not exist, it need not be unique when it exists, but if it exists and is unique, you might still have two operations like you say. 03:31:05 But it'll probably be clearer to write BA^-1 or A^-1B? 03:33:02 well you could still have division without having an inverse, sometimes. 03:37:36 oerjan: Oh, hi 03:37:40 I forgot about that message 03:38:17 drive-by messaging 03:38:32 oerjan: Well I was bound to come back at /some/ point and read it 03:39:14 (Full disclosure: I was already aware that you can have two different division operations; I found that out when reading through the Octave docs when I tried to learn Octave. But I'm confident I would've said the same thing if I didn't already know and had managed to brain-stumble into division) 03:39:45 fiendish 03:41:41 <\oren\> ARGH 03:42:06 * oerjan injects \oren\ with morphine 03:42:53 that's even morphinedish 03:43:19 * hppavilion[1] tries to stop oerjan, but is too late; that was hyper-concentrated #esoteric-grade morphine for use on Venezuelans and those who dare challenge fungot, and the amount administered would be a lethal dose to a horse 03:43:20 hppavilion[1]: i agree with sukoshi. why i use directed quotes in underload 03:43:21 well he seemed pain, so i wanted to help him feel morphine 03:43:30 *in pain 03:44:00 <\oren\> 何で「鉛筆」は鉛で書いた？ 03:44:09 fungot: can you please teach hppavilion[1] to babble more coherently 03:44:09 oerjan: mainly because i don't use the plural of " anecdote" is not fundamentally better than computers solving impossible problems, religious people should not comment on mathematical issues 03:44:33 Cale: whoa whoa whoa, vivid drone change 03:44:54 huh, it's me who used directed quotes in underload, that must be what fungot was referring too 03:44:54 ais523: well then i guess it's not a macro. if you 03:45:52 <\oren\> they must have known demn well that a pencil doesn't have any lead metal in it 03:45:55 ais523: That quote was certainly directed at you. 03:46:03 oerjan: But my coherence mathematically approaches 0 as time goes to 0. I can't resist it. 03:46:08 *referring to 03:46:16 <\oren\> but they still wrote "pencil" with the kanji for the metal lead! 03:46:54 Now for a question of genuine interest to me, mostly because of some cryptographic applications: There are k! ways to arrange a list L of k distinct items. Which is which? That is, find a way to bijectively map numbers from 1 to k! to rearrangements of the list 03:47:44 hppavilion[1]: Fisher shuffle 03:47:55 is the usual way to biject that 03:48:05 \oren\: en:pencil = no:blyant, en:lead = no:bly hth 03:48:07 (Biggest interest: Giving every monoalphabetic english cypher a unique name from 1 to 403291461126605635584000000) 03:48:09 ais523: ty 03:48:14 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I was about to explain that, then I remembered there's a name for it. "fisher shuffle" 03:48:21 basically, you divide the number by k, the remainder gives the new position of the first list elemetn 03:48:39 <\oren\> oerjan: ARGH 03:48:40 then you divide the result of the division by k-1, the remainder gives the new position of the second list element within the remaining slots 03:48:41 and so on 03:48:47 ...Huh, that works 03:48:52 shachaf: Yeah, it's like a completely different unit 03:48:57 hppavilion[1]: There's no natural isomorphism between permutations and total orders on a set. 03:49:22 shachaf: Well yes, what I'm going for is one that doesn't require you to just write every single one down 03:49:26 shachaf: this doesn't need naturality, though, just a bijection 03:49:26 Probably this number thing is along the same lines. 03:49:35 Yes. 03:49:53 obviously there are 2**k! bijections, but the Fisher shuffle one is the one that everyone uses in practice 03:50:13 And it even satisfies the thing I was hoping for where the original is shuffle #0! Yay! 03:50:36 (well, #1, but I shifted everything off by 1 to make things start at 0- as it should be) 03:52:36 \oren\: also de:Bleistift vs. Blei 03:53:04 \oren\: conclusion, at some time in history pencils _did_ use lead, and some languages named them based on that 03:54:42 I think I have some graphite in my skin from a pencil many years ago. 03:56:14 \oren\: oh, if i'm reading german wikipedia correctly, it was a misunderstanding, people confused graphite with galena 03:58:26 ais523: itym (k!)! hth 03:59:03 oerjan: oh, yes 03:59:03 k!! 03:59:04 wow that's a big number 03:59:10 (assuming k is not trivially small) 04:04:24 \oren\: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil#Discovery_of_graphite_deposit 04:06:21 (fascinating section) 04:10:02 let's assume a world where you can't hardlink directories and bind mounts don't exist etc 04:10:25 how costly would it be to save in each directory the total size in bytes of all the files in its subtree? 04:16:08 ais523: No, (k!)! 04:16:11 Not k!! 04:16:26 what's the difference? 04:17:01 alercah: k!! is the product of all numbers in 1..k that have the same parity (even or odd) as k 04:17:16 I've never heard of that but ok 04:17:42 Because Merserve had to ruin notation for everyone with a stupid ambiguous- scratch that, unambiguous and with obvious meaning that isn't what he used- notation 04:20:12 I mean, seriously, if you wanted that, at least have the decency to make it general; like, x!,n is the product of all integers k : 0 < k <= x where k%n = 0 04:20:23 (!, being crappy shorthand for the exclamation pause) 04:25:42 That way k!! can be superfactorial :P 04:26:11 fun fact 0 = 1 04:27:00 Well, I'd go with superfactorial being written n!_k (or, well, general superfactorial; normal factorial is when k=1, superfactorial is k=2, and general case is k=whatever) 04:29:55 Definition: n!_0 = n, 0!_k = 1, n!_k = (n!_(k-1)) * ((n-1)!_k)!_(k-1) 04:30:22 (Obviously, now we have a 0^0 problem again with 0!_0, which looks like an emoticon) 04:30:35 `? emoji 04:30:36 emoji? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:30:41 `? emojus 04:30:42 emojus? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:35:59 `? python 04:35:59 python? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:36:05 `? lol 04:36:06 lol? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:36:11 `? ego 04:36:11 ego? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:36:16 `? esoteric 04:36:17 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. 04:36:27 `? nothing 04:36:28 Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry. 04:40:07 `? #esoteric 04:40:08 #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts. 04:44:49 do we have entries about any other channels? 04:44:53 `? #haskell 04:44:54 #haskell? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:45:11 I'd expect the entry to say that they didn't exist, and then go into details about what they were like 04:45:13 `? ##nomic 04:45:13 ##nomic? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:45:23 `` ls "wisdom/#*" 04:45:24 ls: cannot access wisdom/#*: No such file or directory 04:45:40 `` ls "wisdom/#"* 04:45:41 wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/#esoteric-blah \ wisdom/#programming 04:45:44 aha 04:45:47 `? #programming 04:45:48 No such channel. See `? #esoteric 04:46:02 `? #esoteric-blah 04:46:03 #esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! 04:55:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:55:57 copumpkin: yopumpkin 04:56:08 hi! 04:56:54 how's life 04:57:18 Someone was complaining about how you can't define a category of Agda functions easily because function equality isn't extensional. 04:57:33 And then we looked at your categories thing but it turned out to be parameterized on an equivalence relation too. 04:58:33 `learn ##ais523 is the channel for all things ais523 04:59:10 does that channel even exist? :-P 04:59:18 ais523: It does now, apparently 04:59:24 It's just shachaf though 04:59:25 it has two #s so it's not up to me to influence it 05:02:08 You're at least as entitled as anyone else is. 05:03:12 entitlement(u('ais523'), chan('##ais523')) ≥ 1/occ(chan('##ais523')) 05:03:38 s,occ,#occ, 05:04:20 hmm, if #occ means "number of occurrences", does "##ais523" mean "number of numbers of ais523s"? 05:04:44 ais523: Yes, but not when in quotes 05:04:49 When in quotes it's just a name 05:05:16 What's the value of ##ais523? 05:05:26 Is it equal to #ais523 or is it 1 or something else? 05:05:44 if #ais523 is uniquely defined, then ##ais523 is 1 05:05:52 ais523: Also, occ : Chan -> {User} means occupants, and # is magnitude (which is cardinality for sets but is absolute value for numbers) 05:06:07 oh 05:06:16 so I guess ##ais523 is the absolute value of my height 05:06:32 So #occ(chan('##ais523')) reads "number of people currently in channel '##ais523'" 05:06:42 ais523: Is your height negative? 05:06:58 positive numbers have absolute values too 05:07:18 Yes, but could ANYBODY's height be negative? 05:07:25 EVER? 05:07:45 Of course. 05:07:51 if you define height as y coordinate of head minus y coordinate of feet while standing upright 05:07:57 I guess it's theoretically possible but unlikely 05:07:59 (Hint: No, height is in |R^+, and that's before you account for the Planck length) 05:08:06 No, height is oriented. 05:08:11 ais523: 'upright' must be defined 05:08:27 hppavilion[1]: I'm treating "standing upright" as a phrase 05:09:01 -!- imode has joined. 05:09:05 I suppose clowns have negative height if we allow handwalking to count as standing upright... 05:09:43 ais523: What I was going for was confirming that Australians don't have negative height 05:10:27 why assume that it's Australians who are upside-down, rather than everyone else? 05:10:42 occam's aussie. 05:10:52 ais523: Convention. 05:10:58 Australians are obviously not upside down. 05:11:04 They're facing away from the center of the planet. 05:11:05 (also: Africa) 05:11:11 Er, head-pointing away. 05:11:21 shachaf: Right, it's more diagonal I guess... 05:11:35 I know, at this very moment, that there may be an australian that's locally upside-down. 05:11:57 imode: Thank you for smartassing it for me :D 05:12:14 hppavilion[1]: always a pleasure. :) 05:12:17 `relcome imode 05:12:18 imode: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 05:12:33 oh, I'm very well aware of esolangs. :P 05:13:13 nice bot though. dig the colors. 05:14:07 getting further back on topic, I decided to work on this language that I've been thinking about for a while for the CALESYTA contest 05:14:27 for a while, I thought it was sub-TC in a particularly interesting way 05:14:37 then I realised it's probably actually TC in an even more interesting way 05:14:48 what's the model? 05:14:53 tarpit 05:15:10 data's stored in stacks of bits 05:15:25 I probably shouldn't say too much, though, not sure if the contest allows spoilers 05:15:58 (for anyone who's interested in esolangs and missed the announcement: http://calesyta.xyz/en/) 05:16:32 now that's interesting. 05:16:55 I'm hoping that the contest is a success, it's rare that people other than us create one 05:17:55 just means that esolangs are growing more numerous and popular! 05:18:30 ...huh. I always assumed the Criterion of Embarrassment was made up by Zach Weiner for a joke. 05:18:35 It sounded like a joke. 05:20:13 Cale: Do you know some good vector spaces without a natural basis? 05:24:32 shachaf: R over Q hth 05:26:40 finite-dimensional twh 05:26:51 Of coure it's easy to come up with infinite-dimensional ones. 05:26:56 fin-dish 05:27:04 but i should've specified it tdh 05:27:43 shachaf: the pointed euclidean plane hth 05:28:04 * oerjan whistles innocently 05:30:36 gotta wonder if any esolangs have been created as productivity enhancers. sort of like shorthand programming. stack machines are good for that sort of thing. 05:31:15 a small virtual machine I can use with one hand tied behind my back. 05:34:06 <\oren\> I made one that is sort of like a shorthand C 05:34:25 <\oren\> but it didn't end up being very good 05:35:54 iirc mroman created burlesque in that way. 05:36:31 yep, today's girl genius is definitely weird, soldier 05:38:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:39:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:40:56 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:54:27 i wonder what "argentinian features" are 06:02:00 OH MY GOD 06:02:14 "DONALD" translates, approximately, to "world ruler" 06:13:15 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:14:22 i always knew there was something fishy about that duck 06:23:40 I think my mother might be a little drunk... 06:24:22 shachaf: Too many ties to Walt Street? He's literally the nephew of Scrooge McDuck, it turns out... 06:41:35 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:46:28 -!- Akaibu has joined. 06:50:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:52:53 i really like the album with music inspired by the life and times of scrooge 06:58:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:59:20 i set english as the main language everywhere 06:59:30 but i do often search italian things 06:59:39 for some reason google seems to think that i'm spanish 06:59:54 not sure why 06:59:57 i don't even speak spanish 07:00:17 i mean i know why, it's because italian and spanish are similar enough to confuse it 07:00:29 but still, i'm disappointed 07:07:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:10:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:24:40 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: except that scrooge McDuck earned his money in the gold rush, not on wallstreet 07:25:18 "it turns out" 07:25:45 also, there is a german magazine called donaldist, being an acronym 07:26:10 with sruff like scientific papers around the donald universe 07:27:37 \oren\: notice the spelling of 'Walt' 07:31:15 What's it called when you have two functions f, g where f(x)*g(x) = x? (distinctly NOT inverse; reciprocal, maybe, but it's really more general than just reciprocals, because sgn and abs satisfy this) 07:35:06 Reciprocal would be (f*g)(x) = 1 07:35:19 I'd just say their (point-wise) product is the identity function. 07:36:26 > map (abs * signum) [-5..5] 07:36:28 error: 07:36:28 • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M756589516162... 07:36:28 prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved. 07:36:41 @let import Data.NumInstances 07:36:44 Defined. 07:36:45 > map (abs * signum) [-5..5] :: [Integer] 07:36:47 [-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5] 07:47:48 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:48:03 Although it's also the case that id * signum = abs 07:53:28 -!- trn has joined. 07:54:35 -!- augur has joined. 08:04:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:05:44 Oooh, if you use integers and define magnitude as 2rtz(x/2) in my system, you deal with parity :) 08:19:39 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 08:23:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:25:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:32:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:32:54 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:00:31 also, abs is the integral of sgn 09:03:55 myname: ...so it is. 09:05:05 myname: Wait, no it isn't 09:05:34 why not? 09:05:55 myname: Because- at least according to Wikipedia- the area below the x-axis subtracts from the total of the integral 09:06:17 * hppavilion[1] might be missing something 09:06:26 oh, yeah 09:06:40 more area than integral, indeed 09:07:34 Is there an operation for absolute integral? 09:08:35 (I mean, you could do \integral{a}{b}{|f(x)|dx} probably, but do you really want to?) 09:09:48 ? 09:10:06 Why isn't abs the integral of signum? 09:10:36 "the area below the x-axis subtracts from the total of the integral", and indeed abs is decreasing to the left of 0 09:11:57 shachaf: Yes, but you would get negative values 09:12:00 (I'm pretty sure) 09:12:24 ? 09:12:33 Integrating from where? 09:13:01 shachaf: OK, just to check, we're looking at the area under sgn(x) from 0 to x, right? 09:13:15 Yes. 09:13:34 (or, well, the area between the x-axis and sgn(x)) 09:13:36 Of course when you're going from 0 to a negative number that reverses the sign 09:13:40 Yes 09:14:24 So the area is negative, because values below the x-axis subtract from the total (whereas values above add) 09:15:19 Like, sgn(x) for negative x = -1 09:16:41 And I think I was going somewhere with an example, but I've forgotten it 09:17:33 -(-x) = x hth 09:17:45 Yes... 09:18:19 But we aren't judging from which side of the y-axis; only the x-axis 09:19:10 I think you misunderstood. 09:19:27 ∫_a^b ... = -∫_b^a ... hth 09:19:51 Also you should read about how this integration thing works. 09:19:54 ...oh? 09:19:57 I am reading about it 09:20:03 Fair enough. 09:21:09 Oh, and derivative of abs is OBVIOUSLY sgn... of course... 09:22:23 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( note to self: integrate floor(x) ) 09:23:37 myname: You were right the first time 09:28:25 -!- carado has joined. 09:52:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Function call without parameters * New user account 10:07:23 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49858&oldid=49854 * Function call without parameters * (+240) 10:07:27 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49859 * Function call without parameters * (+601) Created page 10:11:26 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49860&oldid=49859 * Function call without parameters * (+248) 10:12:24 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49861&oldid=49860 * Function call without parameters * (+16) 10:13:15 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49862&oldid=49861 * Function call without parameters * (+74) 10:16:47