< 1479254497 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479254631 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1479254780 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1479254781 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1479254781 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1479254782 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1479254782 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1479254831 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esrb//ESRB = Eric Steven Raymond's beard < 1479254832 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enrichment center//The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible. < 1479254833 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :banana//Bananananananana BATMAN! < 1479254833 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha//Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé egy szavad < 1479254834 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ol//OL stands for Original Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList. < 1479254858 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowt ol < 1479254866 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9126:2016-09-30 learn OL stands for Original Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList. < 1479254870 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1479255464 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? if < 1479255466 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss: < 1479255472 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1479255506 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? om < 1479255506 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :om? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1479256571 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Zarutian decoded `? 1337 < 1479256890 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? 1337 < 1479256892 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337 15 50 905 < 1479256931 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get it. < 1479256935 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1479256987 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Are you sure? < 1479257003 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell. I think the last word is "GOS" and is intentionally illegible < 1479257015 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be meaningless as a stab at 1337 < 1479257063 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it refers to a time period. < 1479257157 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh? < 1479257167 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem with Lojban: No double entendres ;-; < 1479257255 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, should I do more work on CALESYTA? < 1479257260 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much I can get done in two hours < 1479257275 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a program much more complex than the ones I already have will probably require compiling into it < 1479257292 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written the very backend of such a compiler (effectively a pretty-printer, which is nontrivial in this language) < 1479257303 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rest of the work will be tedious and probably not done in time < 1479257357 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) are there /any/ good entries in wisdom? b) should we be pruning it the same way as we used to prune the quotes? < 1479257359 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uote < 1479257361 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1479257361 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uote: not found < 1479257361 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :937) fungot: begrudging pat < 1479257370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's what I was doing earlier. < 1479257376 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1479257380 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you weren't the one who commented on spam. < 1479257396 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1479257400 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:846) it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will \ 944) Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists \ 1243) (on another note, I love the way that the standard way t < 1479257406 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1479257407 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:o indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) \ 614) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness \ 922) fungot: |open quote fungot: | just to help an fnord archive)" [...] jconn: i am just as confused. you know, that thing which y < 1479257409 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1479257410 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:ou might want is broken < 1479257445 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are all good quotes < 1479257454 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, 937 wasn't really < 1479257458 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could delete that one instead, perhaps < 1479257556 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/5 < 1479257557 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in {1..5}; do quote; done | sport < 1479257613 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/5//cmd=quote; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport < 1479257619 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/5 < 1479257626 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was supposed to be about wisdoms. < 1479257627 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1479257628 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it doesn't quite literally fit your earlier question, but have you looked at Perligata? < 1479257634 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:newline//Newlines are le/rn's \ biggest weakness. \ abstract nonsense//We would have an explanation of abstract nonsense here, but it fled into a diagram and we haven't been able to chase it. We will try again once we find an abstract machete. \ parsley//Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du < 1479257639 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1479257639 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:Sud. \ ghoul//Ghouls are undead that eat BRAINS. So basically, bog standard undead like zombies or wights, but with some fancy back story in the book that nobody reads. \ northumberland//Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RISE! < 1479257664 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I forget the question < 1479257679 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think most wisdoms added by oerjan are good. < 1479257764 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsley must've been me. < 1479257768 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowt parsley < 1479257776 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1791:2013-01-25 learn Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. \ 1793:2013-01-25 learn Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du Sud. < 1479257830 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why I added it, but it comes from _The 35th of May_, a book by Erich Kästner. < 1479257835 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479258322 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you'll remember it if you look at Perligata hth < 1479258362 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see the original question < 1479258371 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsley definitely seemed the weakest one to me < 1479258372 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH I have a good idea of what sorts of questions Perligata would be the answer to < 1479258401 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget parsley < 1479258405 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1479258408 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, how practically useful is Perligata for actually writing programs? < 1479258410 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1479258415 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was somewhat spread over several lines so awkward to paste < 1479258415 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:locale//Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. \ theseus//Theseus was a Greek inventor who was charged with impossible-to-detect murder. He was represented by Protagoras and found not guil < 1479258422 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1479258423 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:ty. He changed his name to escape the publicity and has continued inventing to this day. \ eridanipoid//Eridanipoids form a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants. They form dense clusters of unmovable and unstoppable objects.b_jonas//b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. \ bfjoust/ < 1479258424 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1479258425 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:/bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. < 1479258442 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty good how I cut it down from 10 lines to 6, huh? < 1479258451 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can use three more lines to gloat about it it. < 1479258456 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have it come out a net gain. < 1479258482 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there seems to be some bug in the line joining... < 1479258495 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What bug? < 1479258496 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :-) < 1479258506 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: objects.b_jones < 1479258521 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hmm. < 1479258525 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowt eridanipoid < 1479258527 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1479258529 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3307:2013-07-23 learn eridanipoid is a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants. \ 3498:2013-08-28 echo "Eridanipoids form a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants." >wisdom/eridanipoid \ 3499:2013-08-28 echo -n " They form dense clusters of unmovable and unstoppable objects." >>wisdom/eridanipoid \ 3500:2 < 1479258535 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n < 1479258585 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg eridanipoid < 1479258591 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3505:2013-08-28 revert \ 3504:2013-08-28 sed -i \'s/form dense/occur in dense/\' wisdom/eridanipoid \ 3503:2013-08-28 perl -e \'my $a = join "", <>; $a =~ s/\\n//g; print $a\' wisdom/eridanipoid >q; mv q wisdom/eridanipoid \ 3502:2013-08-28 revert \ 3501:2013-08-28 perl -i -e \'my $a = join "", < 1479258608 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Has any[pb]o[nd]y ever made a programming language that behaves similar to a natural language? < 1479258618 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems like way too much complexity to create the string in that wisdom entry. < 1479258631 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >> wisdom/eridanipoid < 1479258634 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1479258652 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, just original Perl is also a good answer to that question < 1479258664 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was intentionally constructed along similar lines to English < 1479258668 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains a lot, really < 1479258698 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, on the subject of ARGENTOS: should we have foreign-language versions of the Esolang wiki? < 1479258706 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the spanish version should be called es.olangs.org < 1479258728 0 :The_Prospector|2!~The_Prosp@c-73-239-179-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: when in doubt, kernel panic < 1479258800 0 :The_Prospector!~The_Prosp@unaffiliated/cornman JOIN :#esoteric < 1479258820 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the followup lines mentioned grammatical inflection and agreement. even perligata doesn't satisfy all of it. < 1479258845 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I see < 1479258856 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmph so it was my fault. at least we have `learn_append now. < 1479258886 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably that was one of the messes that made me make it. if i was the one who made it.) < 1479258934 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/learn_append < 1479258936 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: sled file//script < 1479258956 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1479258959 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doeg bin/learn_append < 1479258960 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: doeg: not found < 1479258962 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1479259015 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i doubt there's enough personpower to maintain foreign-language versions. < 1479259060 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doat bin/learn_append < 1479259067 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4874:2014-09-26 mv raw.txt bin/learn_append \ 4875:2014-09-26 chmod +x bin/learn_append \ 4877:2014-09-26 sed -e \'/^M/d\' bin/learn_append > bin/learn_append \ 4879:2014-09-26 mv -f raw.txt bin/learn_append \ 4880:2014-09-26 sed -i -e \'/^M/d\' bin/learn_append > bin/learn_append \ 4882:2 < 1479259078 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the names are all logical i swear) < 1479259096 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they're logical, I just can't remember what they are :-P < 1479259096 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm looks like it was mroman < 1479259105 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having them generated by rules isn't useful if you can't remember the rule < 1479259143 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hoag < 1479259145 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`[hd]o[aw][gt] [] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first. < 1479259171 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah i know the same applies to the name of that wisdom) < 1479259171 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we hae a rule for remembering what the rule is? < 1479259211 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shaventions < 1479259212 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them. < 1479259227 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that list's a bit incomplete alas < 1479259250 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doat raw.txt < 1479259256 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4873:2014-09-26 fetch http://codepad.org/PW0O3FBY/raw.txt \ 4874:2014-09-26 mv raw.txt bin/learn_append \ 4878:2014-09-26 fetch http://codepad.org/PW0O3FBY/raw.txt \ 4879:2014-09-26 mv -f raw.txt bin/learn_append \ 4881:2014-09-26 fetch http://codepad.org/PW0O3FBY/raw.txt \ 4882:2014-09-26 < 1479259264 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :controversial statement: an esolang is bad if it draws a clear distinction between data storage and control flow < 1479259275 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what if there was, like, just one command, and it, like, took command line flags, man? < 1479259286 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you mean like busybox? < 1479259297 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i've actually considered that. `hog would be a good name, i think < 1479259313 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I I think an just meant regular flags, not $0 < 1479259330 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: busybox can also be called as "busybox" and be given arguments < 1479259356 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that determine which program it acts like < 1479259361 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant more "like just about every UNIX program". < 1479259377 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The options to hoag are mostly independent. < 1479259411 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scheme might need to be modified slightly for HackEgo. < 1479259431 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing its own flag parsing on $1 or something. < 1479259469 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think an esolang is good if it defies strict guidelines like the one you proposed. < 1479259507 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm mostly thinking about the flood of uninteresting esolangs < 1479259514 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about what makes them uninteresting < 1479259539 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF derivatives tend to be uninteresting, but this isn't fundamentally because they're BF derivatives < 1479259544 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because they don't bring anything new to the table in terms of the way computation is done < 1479259585 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be looking for the word "originality" < 1479259604 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, yes, being original is good < 1479259616 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, most of the time when an esolang is original < 1479259638 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it has a core idea and allows the rest of the language to flow naturally out of the idea < 1479259646 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using existing, well established programming patterns < 1479259667 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that tends to mean that the data and control get all mixed up with each other < 1479259668 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i is lens an esolang < 1479259700 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens has many esolang-like properties < 1479259704 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I'm not sure it's actually a language < 1479259708 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's an esolibrary? < 1479259754 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lkooqtwyaijuheaf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1479259777 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't someone (Taneb?) prove lens TC < 1479259794 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean for lens to be TC? < 1479259827 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can do arbitrary computation composing only identifiers defined in lens, i guess < 1479259856 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I guess lens + composition is a language < 1479259882 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we consider the question of how many identifiers you need for composition to be TC before now? < 1479259895 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iota shows that you only need one for application to be TC < 1479259904 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, composition has the issue that it's associative < 1479259910 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it rather harder to write programs with it < 1479259938 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload with something else replacing (), iirc < 1479259944 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, dei < 1479259949 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't really minimized though < 1479259956 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we proved it TC but didn't go beyond that < 1479260003 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the dei command is stateful, so isn't ideal < 1479260062 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically any language where commands are always interpreted in strict order may considered as using composition < 1479260070 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1479260099 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. emmental < 1479260115 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not very minimal either) < 1479260118 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess working from Underload, we can have (:) (^) (a) (*) ^ as five combinators that are TC under composition < 1479260138 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(annoying that you need both (^) and ^ but I don't think there's any way to work around it) < 1479260177 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's an alternate minimization < 1479260246 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd imagine there could be some way with just two commands. < 1479260249 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1479260256 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's based on Underload though < 1479260327 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ = increment top of stack, ^ = interpret top of stack as underload program in unary. hth hth :P < 1479260330 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1479260347 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh: (((:)(^)(a)(*))(~)(~)) ! ^ < 1479260360 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's true < 1479260371 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling the first combinator L, we can get (~) via L^^! < 1479260376 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~ via (~)^, obviously < 1479260413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once we have ~ and ! we can extract all the other elements of the lookup table that's produced via L!!^ < 1479260439 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think we can simplify L to ((~)(:)(^)(a)(*)) < 1479260460 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd probably want to put (!) and maybe even (S) in there too but they aren't needed for Turing completeness) < 1479260493 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're pushing (~) at the bottom, you can get ~ via L!!!!^, and that in turn lets you get at the other lookup table elements < 1479260509 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that there's probably some way to do it with two commands though < 1479260510 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could also use the pre-! trick from my tables < 1479260510 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((:))(!(^))(!!(a)) ... ) < 1479260550 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh: ^(~)(:)(^)(a)(*) and ! works I think < 1479260558 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although obviously you have to start with a nonempty stack) < 1479260569 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call the first combinator M < 1479260603 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was imagining something + ^ < 1479260635 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you always maintain (~)(:)(^)(a)(*) on top of the stack after running a command < 1479260654 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then !!!!M lets you swap the two stack elements below that, giving you a working ~ < 1479260669 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think not being able to initialize the stack is a bit scow < 1479260697 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you submitted your calesyta entry < 1479260704 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, via reference < 1479260706 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can still update it < 1479260708 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1479260717 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1479260745 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, let me revise M to (~)(:)(^)(a)(*)() < 1479260748 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and start with () on the stack < 1479260764 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* revise M to ^(~)(:)(^)(a)(*)() < 1479260770 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to prove that works < 1479260786 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always maintain (~)(:)(^)(a)(*)() on top of the stack between each command run < 1479260800 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running M from that state pushes (~)(:)(^)(a)(*) onto the section of the stack below the invariant < 1479260839 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I need an (!!) in there too < 1479260850 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let M be ^(~)(!!)(^)(a)(*)() < 1479260869 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*let M be ^(~)(!!)(:)(^)(a)(*)() < 1479260907 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M pushes our six commands onto the usable portion of the stack; !!!!!M pops the usable portion of the stack; !!!!!!M swaps the top two commands in the usable portion of the stack < 1479260915 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus we can get any of the commands to the top of the usable portion < 1479260922 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then execute it using !!!!!!!M < 1479260922 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does your "hth" not expand to "hope that helps"? < 1479260956 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives us a fully working Underload-without-S, as ! can be expressed as :!! < 1479260991 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess the next questions are, is there a way that works from an empty stack, and is there a simpler way? < 1479261012 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ox0dea: whatever gave you that idea < 1479261024 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1479261029 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's the standard interpretation, anyway. < 1479261033 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has a meaning of its own at this point < 1479261037 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just never seen it used twice in a row like that. < 1479261040 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may or may not have anything to do with the expansion < 1479261065 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it sort of means "hope that helps" but is normally used passive-aggressively, or perhaps ironically? < 1479261086 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not normally. < 1479261100 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, by oerjan < 1479261105 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1479261121 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ox0dea: the twice in a row is an artifact of a script i'm running hth < 1479261124 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479261132 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it chops off one hth from the end of my lines) < 1479261180 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the script an attempt to cure your hth addiction? < 1479261346 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was. written by elliott. < 1479261551 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hth < 1479261553 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. < 1479261570 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1479261619 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tsh < 1479261635 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure "hth" is the IRC equivalent of punctuation < 1479261742 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479261825 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, if you want it to work from an empty stack: (~)(!!)(a)(*)(:)(!!!!!!!!!!^)()()()() and ^ < 1479261843 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: damn i'd almost got it < 1479261880 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :((:))(!(^))(!!(a))(!!!(*))(!!!!^)(!!!!!!!) and ^ < 1479261882 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :L^^^^L^^^^^ gives you ~, L^^^L^^^^^ gives you ! < 1479261912 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from L, ~, ! you have (~), (!!), (a), (*) (:), (!!!!!!!!!^) < 1479261946 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you have * (via (*)^) and the above constructions, you can form (:!!) and (:::::::::!!!!!!!!!^) < 1479261959 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving you all the quoted single Underload commands < 1479261971 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those plus * and a (i.e. (a)^) give you arbitrary Underload commands < 1479261979 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from there it's just standard Underload < 1479261980 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matt Smith is apparently the King of Greece and Spain < 1479262009 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I like your solution < 1479262010 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Prince Phillip < 1479262015 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's using the same principle, right? < 1479262032 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm guessing they're similar < 1479262076 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your construction L^ is ! directly, then you can use L!!^ for (*), L!!!^ for (a), L!!!!^ for (^), L!!!!!^ for (:) < 1479262083 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you need the (!!!!^) case though < 1479262083 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1479262093 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1479262102 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just starting with your original list above < 1479262123 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already have a ^ by itself so you don't need to be able to find an unquoted ^ in L < 1479262146 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1479262159 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :((:))(!(^))(!!(a))(!!!(*))(!!!!!!) and ^ < 1479262176 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is simpler; do you want to add it to the article? < 1479262218 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can think of further simplifications < 1479262390 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)(a)(!!(^))(!!!(*))(!!!!!!) and ^ is simpler < 1479262414 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I mean < 1479262419 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)(!a)(!!(^))(!!!(*))(!!!!!!) and ^ is simpler < 1479262422 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm can combine your idea of (~) at the bottom with it < 1479262422 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~)(:)(^)(a)(*)(!!!!!!) and ^ < 1479262422 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1479262422 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get ~, which allows you to do remove the bottom ones < 1479262422 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1479262423 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~)(:)(^)(a)(*)(!!!!!!!) and ^ < 1479262439 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, with ~ at the bottom things work out much simpler < 1479262446 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same space I was working in < 1479262458 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also apparently I was lagging, I got a burst of your messages all at once) < 1479262465 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1479262480 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is six ! < 1479262483 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not seven < 1479262499 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because L^ needs to work as ! < 1479262523 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thinko < 1479262542 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1479262565 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right, this construction gives us L^ as !, L!!!!!^ as ~ < 1479262592 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combining L, ~ and ! lets us put any element of L on top of the stack individually, which we can run with ^ or just use as data < 1479262612 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't even need to be able to produce (!) for TCness, but we can via forming (:::::!!!!!!) < 1479262648 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theorem: no Underload quine contains exactly one ^ < 1479262663 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1479262682 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i add S to it, just to have it reproduce all underload? < 1479262683 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think they all require at least two : < 1479262703 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good reason to add it, but there's also a good reason not to < 1479262709 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't produce arbitrary strings with this construction < 1479262714 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so S doesn't have its full power anyway < 1479262722 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1479262728 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can produce programs /with the effect of/ arbitrary programs, but sometimes they use different code) < 1479263078 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess instead of adding S, you could add a full ASCIIbet < 1479263100 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(( )(!)($)…(A)(B)(C)…(~)) < 1479263106 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the nonprintables if you care about those < 1479263241 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TIL in the UK, "lieutenant" is sometimes pronounced with [lɛf] at the start. < 1479263249 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the actual fuck UK. < 1479263256 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it's usually pronounced left-tenant here < 1479263257 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why < 1479263267 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TIL that in the UK, not TIL while in the UK) < 1479263281 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot like the pronunciation of "colonel" < 1479263316 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1479263316 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1479263389 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FR: if someone misspells "messages" in the command name, misspell it the same way in the lack-of-messages report < 1479263438 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they misspell "loud"? < 1479263445 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What? [cɑː(l|ɫ)nɛɫ]?? < 1479263458 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read IPA. < 1479263474 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should twh < 1479263488 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The only way of writing it in non-IPA is "colnel" < 1479263498 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't helpful < 1479263515 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English < 1479263525 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm going to go with just showing how to get enough for TC-ness. < 1479263535 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To my knowledge, the pronunciation of "colonel" is the same in US and UK English. < 1479263543 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In both cases it's pronounced like the word "kernel". < 1479263623 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kɔlɔnɛl/, tsé. < 1479263635 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. No it is not. < 1479263640 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes no sense. < 1479263663 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you have no clue hth < 1479263670 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, in the uk, no cluedo) < 1479263700 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION *thwedoes* shachaf. 0.20 FP.
< 1479263706 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, clearly, the glottal stop is the semivowel form of [ə] :P < 1479263778 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Underload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50242&oldid=43694 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+792) 10/* A two-command basis for a concatenative language */ < 1479263930 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: his523. it's not a misspalling hth < 1479263956 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messageese-loud < 1479263956 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1479264018 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ (@tell boily duck) (@tell boily duck) < 1479264018 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Consider it noted. Consider it noted. < 1479264073 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 minutes to CALESYTA deadline < 1479264216 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1479264216 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 3m 18s ago: duck < 1479264216 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 3m 18s ago: duck < 1479264216 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 3m 15s ago: goose < 1479264221 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. < 1479264224 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1479264232 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did that goose come from. < 1479264237 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above hth < 1479264260 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1479264269 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the above doesn't help. all I see is a doubleduck. < 1479264270 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:☾_//☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel \ monad//Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. \ i,i//i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying". \ muphrys law//Mumphrie's < 1479264274 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is perplexed.
< 1479264275 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1479264276 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: Law says things will be misspelled at the worst possible moment. < 1479264286 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:39 @messageese-loud < 1479264290 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Time difference? < 1479264296 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: a double duck is a lot like a double dactyl < 1479264306 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh xD < 1479264309 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote iggledy < 1479264310 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is completely confuzzled.
< 1479264311 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1479264324 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp iggledy < 1479264333 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion1:higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed \ Binary file reflection matches < 1479264353 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a very good double dactyl tdnh < 1479264411 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm pentadactyl < 1479264681 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: KNEAD CHICKEN < 1479264987 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : When Taneb becomes wise, he'll change his name to Tanwb. <-- somehow the natural way to pronounce that leaves the wrong impression. < 1479265112 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What's the natural way? < 1479265122 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[tæn.u:b]? < 1479265159 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1479265195 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't see hwo.. < 1479265204 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs clone http://nethack4.org/esolangs/calesyta-2016 < 1479265208 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how... < 1479265208 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ my CALESYTA submission < 1479265211 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: will not work in a web browser < 1479265220 0 :pecan!pecan@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe55:55e8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it sounds vaguely like “tan lube” if you squint kinda funny. < 1479265230 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's forbotten < 1479265250 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : note: will not work in a web browser < 1479265254 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or however you spell it germanly) < 1479265266 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but the site won't open at all? < 1479265267 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use darcs < 1479265271 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1479265277 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? < 1479265290 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant there wasn't a JS runner < 1479265334 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there isn't :-) < 1479265347 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well yes, but I figured that was all < 1479265351 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly is darcs? < 1479265384 0 :Froox!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479265390 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :version control system < 1479265434 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured < 1479265559 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Tan W. B.? < 1479265567 0 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1479265576 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Named after W. B. Yeats, I'm sure. < 1479265726 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :colonel is clearly pronounced as :L < 1479265780 0 :Froox!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1479265803 0 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479265942 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new, original, completely unoriginal idea < 1479266020 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Tor hops for computation. < 1479266048 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could possibly go right? < 1479266124 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479266137 0 :hppavilion[i]!~Owner@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479266144 0 :hppavilion[i]!~Owner@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, apparently I have irssi < 1479266150 0 :hppavilion[i]!~Owner@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: cool < 1479266159 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[i]: yep < 1479266161 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1479266163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monads < 1479266171 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1479266173 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. < 1479266202 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1479266205 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1479266206 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1479266207 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1479266208 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1479266210 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1479266220 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a fluke hth < 1479266238 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember `? automatically *-sing < 1479266258 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479266283 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've often wanted to make `? support a little language rather than just catting files. < 1479266304 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wisdoms can e.g. embed other wisdoms, rather than relying on symlinks. < 1479266310 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe other features? I don't remember. < 1479266329 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479266335 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah, I like that oo < 1479266342 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1479266349 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: On the other hand I think it's probably not worth the complexity. < 1479266362 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -FRl '^#!' wisdom < 1479266367 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You do not belong in this channel hth < 1479266369 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/reflection < 1479266379 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? reflection < 1479266380 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -Rl '^#!' wisdom < 1479266381 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat.reflection. < 1479266383 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1479266398 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` help < 1479266399 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 4.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. \ Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. \ Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. \ Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. \ \ A star ( < 1479266455 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/reflection < 1479266457 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat.wisdom/reflection. < 1479266465 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1479266472 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1479266479 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste wisdom/reflection < 1479266482 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/reflection < 1479266504 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, /proc/self/cmdline < 1479266507 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` readlink wisdom/reflection < 1479266509 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/proc/self/cmdline < 1479266534 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last edited 12 hours ago, apparently < 1479266538 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/? < 1479266541 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F < 1479266556 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw the cat.wisdom/reflection. I guessed that it might be a symlink to /proc/self/cmdline < 1479266559 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? eridanipoid < 1479266559 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I don't think it's a good idea to have multiline wisdoms. < 1479266561 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eridanipoids form a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants. They form dense clusters of unmovable and unstoppable objects. < 1479266568 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: It's easier to edit one-line files. < 1479266596 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think #! scripts need to have multiple lines? < 1479266612 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: the #? < 1479266622 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because one line is #! and the other line is the contents. < 1479266636 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, some #! scripts might not need a second line, most probably would need.) < 1479266639 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they need to be multiple lines. < 1479266646 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spanish shebangs are much more complicated < 1479266651 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡#! < 1479266656 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, I don't think it would be a good idea to make them multiline. < 1479266671 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that < 1479266679 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad we're in agreement. < 1479266686 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree too! < 1479266735 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What would a language designed for wisdom look like? Would it be an established Unixoidal thing, or new? < 1479267224 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unixodal!!!!! < 1479267225 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1479267244 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote three !s first, and then checked the spelling, and somehow added two instead instead of one. < 1479267377 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, what? < 1479267387 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was 4! special < 1479267429 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 is a pretty special number for all sorts of reasons hth < 1479267591 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :3! is more special. it's perfect hth < 1479267651 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1479267685 0 :hppavilion[i]!~Owner@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1479268076 0 :hppavilion[i]!~Owner@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479268082 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479268581 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can you make string diagrams for parallel/serial sum? < 1479268601 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does parallel sum correspond to some sort of tensor product? < 1479268792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479268908 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: whoa whoa whoa, maybe https://www.irif.fr/~mellies/tensorial-logic/hopf-in-lux-1.pdf is connected < 1479268975 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty neat slides. String diagrams and game semantics. < 1479268985 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn about tensorial logic. < 1479269305 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Haskell interpreter in JavaScript (preferably with the ability to compile the code it interprets into a JavaScript function too, that can then be callable by a JavaScript code)? I think this can help if writing part of a program in Haskell and some in JavaScript, for example if making an implementation of Eleusis card game then it can help for the dealer to write the secret rule as a Haskell code. < 1479269320 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compile ghc to js < 1479269321 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1479269329 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether ghcjs can compile itself yet. < 1479269374 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you please put a copy of the eleusis rules somewhere btw? < 1479269378 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been trying to track one down < 1479269403 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're very eleusive < 1479269407 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will try to write down < 1479271176 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY41O4cmlEM < 1479271300 0 :hppavilion[i]!~Owner@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479271332 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1479271978 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: there's a list of books that contain the rules of Eleusis here: http://www.logicmazes.com/games/eleusis/eleusis2.html < 1479271990 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it doesn't contain the rules themselves, just a pointer to them < 1479271999 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to see if any of the books are in a local library < 1479272054 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1479272055 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1479272703 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did start writing the rules. < 1479272707 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will post a link once I have done so. < 1479272713 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1479273268 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it's for when people think they're being funny, rather than when other people think they're funny. < 1479273287 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Funny or some other property.) < 1479273293 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/gamerules/eleusis This file can also be access by gopher with the same selector (except the initial slash). < 1479273302 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would explain the quality difference. < 1479273311 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wisdom entries should be peer-reviewed. < 1479273314 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: Is this good? < 1479273347 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I will have to review tomorrow or thursday < 1479273349 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1479273486 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479273605 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it's for when people think they're being funny, rather than when other people think they're funny. < 1479273614 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome farrioth < 1479273616 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1298) ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it's for when people think they're being funny, rather than when other people think they're funny. < 1479273618 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1479273647 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fwiw I added that because I thought it was insightful, rather than because I thought it was funny < 1479273663 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. But you added it without the clarification. < 1479273678 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only said funny because I think that's what most wisdom entries are trying to be. < 1479273699 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not add any sentence from the book; I wrote the rules by myself! < 1479273725 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :) < 1479273759 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, anyone else who knows the rules can tell me if I wrote anything wrong.) < 1479273762 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for some reason I missed the clarification, probably because it was between a ping and a URL < 1479273779 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it probably works better without when seen from the quotees database < 1479273780 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quotes < 1479274778 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some parents assert their right to send their kid to school without vaccinating them. < 1479274780 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are wrong. < 1479274792 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some argue that if they homeschool the kid, it's OK. < 1479274793 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are wrong. < 1479274809 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thinkt he clarification was awkwardly phrased. < 1479274810 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1479274820 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You vaccinate your fucking kid or your parenthood is revoked. < 1479274837 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even your adopted kid < 1479274912 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ...what's the joke, adopted- oh, I get it. < 1479274914 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Agreed. < 1479275020 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%d", (int)(unsigned char)('.'-96)); < 1479275037 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :206 < 1479275046 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like the role playing system where the magic subsystem is including mathematical category theory and abstract algebra, the ability to both add and multiply different colours of mana, interactions between multiple spells prepared at once, and so on? < 1479275047 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%d", (int)(unsigned char)('.'-96-128)); < 1479275054 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no < 1479275060 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :78 < 1479275066 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general I prefer my role playing systems to have simpler rules < 1479275083 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What system do you prefer then? < 1479275094 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you might be able to have a system with simple rules that satisfies zzo38's description. < 1479275098 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be tricky. < 1479275130 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different color of mana is similar to that of Magic: the Gathering. < 1479275137 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the magma system is pretty important. < 1479275137 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was reading a few games of Roll to Dodge recently < 1479275146 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is about the simplest possible roleplaying system that has an action resolution method < 1479275147 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in Magic: The Gathering is way too complicated. < 1479275178 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are: you declare your action, then roll a d6; if it comes up as a 5 the action worked < 1479275204 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can specialize in as many colours of magic as you want, in whatever proportion you want; you can have 100% red and no others if you want, but that means less versatility.) < 1479275205 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the best roleplaying I've done was when we were camping and wanted to play D&D but could only find one D6, so came up with some simplified rules. < 1479275211 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-4 are various strengths of failure or working imperfectly (the details vary from game to game, but generally 1 is a complete failure / reverse of what you intended, 4 is a partial or mostly success) < 1479275228 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Six meaning what? < 1479275233 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was actually quite similar to what ais523 just described. < 1479275239 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the dice is a 6 then the action fails in the other direction, i.e. fails to produce the intended effect because it produced a larger one < 1479275278 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, in general, not a system that's very suited to serious games < 1479275291 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more for frivolous games < 1479275302 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that system very much it does not make much sense to me. It is simple, but simple is no good if it is wrong. < 1479275303 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has the obvious problem that all actions are equally likely to succeed < 1479275320 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is one of the problems. < 1479275381 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it could be improved by doing something along the lines of "a 5 causes the action to succeed to the greatest extent that would be reasonably possible; a 3 causes the action to succeed to the extent that would be typically expected under normal circumstances; etc." < 1479275389 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the system I used, characters had modifiers (+/- 1 or 2 or so) for various traits, and the modifier for the relevant trait was added to the roll for the skill. < 1479275403 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a +1 modifier is very large in a d6 system < 1479275413 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1479275419 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dungeons&Dragons uses 1d20 to check for success, while GURPS uses 3d6; these result in different distributions. < 1479275422 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It suited the slightly silly nature of the campaign, though. < 1479275440 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually; did we use nD6 where n > 1? I think we did. < 1479275449 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm currently trying to write a quine in a rather restricted programming language (not my CALESYTA language, a different one) < 1479275486 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In what programming language? Is it currently a secret until you write a quine? < 1479275499 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am coming across the problem of "how do I figure out how to stop writing the 'outside' program and start writing the escaped representation of the data"? < 1479275505 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's called Verity, it isn't very well known < 1479275514 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed nobody would know the language so specifying it wouldn't help < 1479275572 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I know what I got wrong here < 1479275591 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to swap the octal digits of each number < 1479275626 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm storing the data in octal, using a 6-byte character set; the output is in ASCII but I'm using only 64 distinct characters and transcoding in order to make the data storage shorter) < 1479275640 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1479275645 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I heard of Verity. < 1479275646 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.veritygos.org/language ? < 1479275657 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where I heard about it. Maybe it was here. < 1479275737 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1479275744 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably here, because I was hired to work on it < 1479275755 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, makes sense. < 1479275777 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazily hard to come up with a character that isn't naturally used all over the program and won't break the program when added < 1479275875 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a quine in SQL, in BASIC, and in FurryScript, as well as some others. I have invented FurryScript and some other programming languages for specific use, such as OAA, TAVERN, INQUIZ, etc, although I have not attempted to write a quine in any of those. (I doubt a quine is possible in INQUIZ anyways; it is too restrictive.) < 1479275908 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I think I can use unary minus < 1479275916 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it before but it didn't work < 1479275919 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I can make it work < 1479275930 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%d", '-'); < 1479275937 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 < 1479275943 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's in my character set < 1479276246 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%o", '-'); < 1479276256 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :55 < 1479276278 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is what you are trying to do. < 1479276390 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, is that a silly parsing behaviour < 1479276404 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verity parses (-a-b-c) as (-(a-b-c)) < 1479276413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is correct given the way unary minus is defined to work < 1479276415 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really unintuitive < 1479276473 0 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact. In Minnesota, it's illegal to dump or deposit snow on the road. < 1479276474 0 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.42 < 1479276511 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lovely piece of esoterica. < 1479276831 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%d", '|'); < 1479276840 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :124 < 1479276861 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%c", 92); < 1479276866 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ < 1479276884 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, whoops < 1479278958 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1479279266 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479280467 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Did you ever see mauke's sizeof.c C puzzler? < 1479281043 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: https://gist.github.com/ivant/1454460 < 1479281348 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this one's a little more interesting, honestly: https://eval.in/678550 < 1479281372 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they both demonstrate the same two "quirks". < 1479283141 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1479283770 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4BF3B.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1479284230 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50243&oldid=50235 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (+23) 10Added EntropyAssembler < 1479284536 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really write some Funge-98 some time. I've only written things in Befunge-93 up until now. < 1479284965 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: fungot is written entirely in funge-98 < 1479284965 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: madam president, you will see that not all our recommendations have been tabled, it will be no unanimity within the council. < 1479284973 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly by hand, aside from the word-modules) < 1479284988 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EntropyAssembler14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50244 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (+796) 10Created page with "'''EntropyAssembler''', is an esoteric programming language with syntax like assembler, but datas in registers decays while programm runs(like in [[Entropy]]). == Examples ==..." < 1479284997 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, fungot, but Trump won the presidency. Not Hillary. < 1479284998 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: mrs banotti, so ensuring that we will be able to line their pockets nicely, which is as useful as possible, complemented by the euro-mediterranean ministerial conference on drugs policy in europe is prepared to improve its resources for mobilisation, monitoring and prevention. < 1479285010 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1479285010 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1479285019 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's awesome xD < 1479285026 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So I guess it isn't US President) < 1479285035 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know the European parliament was an option < 1479285043 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, style=fungot? < 1479285044 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: madam president, i am glad that you are only partially responsible for what, according to information available to us, and we use no more than 2% of the european peoples' party, i have here the text of the regulation on leghold traps will never finish. we are a long way to go, because, of course, there was a lot of the educational facilities and so on; that indigenous culture will be promoted and protected. the c < 1479285065 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the european parliament is VERY regular < 1479285070 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft < 1479285070 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) < 1479285076 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: boooop < 1479285076 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: " beauty is truth truth beauty" that is all. if my sanity is still fnord, i later met and fnord and stumbles to bring it to you. do the same. fnord acid and even aqua fnord merely hissed and spattered against its torrid fnord. ammi had difficulty in recalling all these things began to acquire a dark and < 1479285130 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Wait, a bot in funge-98? < 1479285134 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: Yes. < 1479285137 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: Entirely < 1479285158 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Whoever is responsible for that impresses me. < 1479285169 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Is the source code available? < 1479285177 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: fizzie. Either autistic, a genius, or just a very boring person < 1479285178 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: https://github.com/fis/fungot < 1479285199 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: I think there are at least partial implementations in other languages too < 1479285308 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I shall check it out. < 1479285417 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like that is maybe not an appropriate thing to say here < 1479285423 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe i'm missing some context < 1479285446 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which part? < 1479285466 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Huh? < 1479285496 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll let what's-his-name say, i guess < 1479285501 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This is the internet, sugarplum. < 1479285517 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ox0dea: This is #esoteric, fig < 1479285532 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ain't your sugarplum < 1479285533 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the small levenshtein distance to "fag" there was entirely unintentional) < 1479285541 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EntropyAssembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50245&oldid=50244 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (+1083) 10 < 1479285547 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Please do your part to maintain the safety of this space. < 1479285558 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ox0dea: wat? < 1479285559 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do your part to go away < 1479285566 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EntropyAssembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50246&oldid=50245 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (-2) 10 < 1479285568 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which person? < 1479285572 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confus < 1479285575 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EntropyAssembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50247&oldid=50246 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (+1) 10 < 1479285596 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EntropyAssembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50248&oldid=50247 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (-3) 10 < 1479285605 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :You initially caught shachaf's ire for "accusing" someone of potentially being autistic. < 1479285635 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: rofl re levenshtein distance < 1479285663 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not exactly an accurate characterization < 1479285672 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's very close. < 1479285684 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not exactly an accurate characterization. < 1479285689 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1479285726 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1479285735 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1479285747 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ox0dea: This isn't html tdnh < 1479285758 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{vodka} < 1479285767 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even XML, it's just that the parts used so far just happen to have looked like XML < 1479285776 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Care to interject with some RTF? < 1479285842 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :farrioth: TeX tdh < 1479286063 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Slnetaiga14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50249&oldid=50165 5* 03Slnetaiga 5* (+23) 10 < 1479286667 0 :testac3!~Kitteh@121.244.35.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479286986 0 :testac3!~Kitteh@121.244.35.242 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1479287228 0 :testac3!~Kitteh@121.244.35.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479287230 0 :testac3!~Kitteh@121.244.35.242 PART #esoteric : < 1479288040 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIRST SNOW OF THE YEAR TODAY! < 1479288215 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479288253 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ...really? < 1479288260 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It snowed for us, like, a month ago < 1479288277 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: We already have trucks sliding down driveways into the road < 1479288285 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Your peasant weather makes me laugh < 1479288291 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1479288297 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR < 1479288301 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 160900Z 03012KT 6SM -DZ BR BKN005 BKN012 OVC020 06/05 A2973 RMK SF6SF1SC1 SLP070 \ ENVA 160850Z 11010KT CAVOK 07/M01 Q0994 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15016KT \ ESSB 160920Z VRB03KT CAVOK 00/00 Q1007 < 1479288301 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :R30/29//68 \ KOAK 160853Z 29011KT 10SM FEW008 14/09 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP194 T01390089 56002 \ PAMR 160853Z 08003KT 10SM SCT055 SCT130 M05/M08 A3008 RMK SLP187 T10501078 400221050 51023 $ VIA AUTODIAL < 1479288315 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: oh, trucks sliding is easy, they can do that if it rains, because they use bad tires < 1479288322 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need snow for that < 1479288348 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have attached Zork I to my taskbar for fast launching :D < 1479288381 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :00/00 < 1479288407 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1479288410 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and apparently, Gellato is made by extracting it directly from Satan's testicles < 1479288422 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I dew! < 1479288704 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1479289065 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1479289065 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 160920Z AUTO 26013KT 9999 NCD 12/09 Q1016 NOSIG < 1479289101 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so hot. < 1479289148 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`airport EGLL < 1479289153 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heathrow (LHR, EGLL) < 1479289164 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LLBG < 1479289164 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLBG 160920Z 27014KT 9999 SCT040 23/12 Q1015 NOSIG < 1479289172 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KSJC < 1479289173 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSJC 160853Z AUTO 28011KT 10SM SCT022 14/09 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP194 T01390094 56002 < 1479289271 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :23/12?? < 1479289299 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 23/12 < 1479289301 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.9166666666666667 < 1479289306 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost 2 < 1479289319 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is still warmer than here < 1479289330 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :though well, I guess 0/0 is indeterminate < 1479289387 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ESSB < 1479289387 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESSB 160920Z VRB03KT CAVOK 00/00 Q1007 R30/29//68 < 1479289407 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENSB < 1479289407 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENSB 160920Z 12014KT 9999 FEW022 SCT030 BKN200 03/M01 Q0975 NOSIG RMK WIND 1400FT 09020KT < 1479290445 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479291034 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Incident14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50250 5* 03B jonas 5* (+219) 10Created page with "'''Incident''' is a language [[User:ais523]] has created. For information, see the darcs repository at http://nethack4.org/esolangs/calesyta-2016 (not accessible through HTTP..." < 1479291159 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Incident14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50251&oldid=50250 5* 03B jonas 5* (+25) 10 < 1479291225 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50252&oldid=47204 5* 03B jonas 5* (+14) 10 < 1479291255 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50253&oldid=50243 5* 03B jonas 5* (+15) 10 < 1479291457 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Note that the earlier esolang Ellipsis uses ".." as the recommended file extension, so so the "...." extension you use for Incident can clash < 1479291457 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1479291577 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: My pun was better. < 1479291597 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even pun.. < 1479291603 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 0/0 < 1479291611 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really a pun < 1479291612 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay < 1479291624 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 00/00 doesn't mean divide 0 by 0 < 1479291625 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1479291674 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :…it was a response to shachaf's 23/12 < 1479291681 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1479291682 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :context! < 1479291696 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I saw context, it just didn't make sense there either < 1479291705 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1479291747 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: swan lake is p. good huh < 1479291755 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I guess our opinion is divided on the matter < 1479291781 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1479291788 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :997) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) < 1479291789 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: And my pun should at least be acknowledged ;-; < 1479291794 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP < 1479291796 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1479291797 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1479291799 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :756) i have a simple view of reality that goes something like this.. once your sufficiently well tied up.. it doesn't make a difference if your enemy has a knife or a gun.. you're equally screwed < 1479291806 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, is it? < 1479291813 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1479291813 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :989) My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. < 1479291818 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1479291819 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1072) my emergency contacts list somehow has my father listed in both slots, in one of them as my daughter < 1479291827 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked first hth < 1479291838 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't know < 1479291864 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1479291866 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1479291867 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :593) elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: its information is actually true. < 1479291872 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should listen to it, and then you'll know that it's good. < 1479291878 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1479291907 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't trust ballet, you could play the game Loom, I guess. < 1479292686 0 :impomatic_!~digital_w@host81-136-110-120.range81-136.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1479293140 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1479293851 0 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1479296676 0 :impomatic_!~digital_w@host81-136-110-120.range81-136.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1479296889 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479298187 0 :Ox0dea!~dea@unaffiliated/ox0dea PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 1.7-dev" < 1479299940 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479301002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1479303499 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1479303652 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan For a two-command generator of underload, isn't there already a less efficient solution: using ^ and (U) where U is a generator of ski-combinator calculus? It is well-known that the latter exists, and you can translate it to an underload term. < 1479303652 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1479304396 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : hm, last slide reminds me of "Category Theory and Concrete Universals" by David P. Ellerman in 1998-05 at .. < 1479304706 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1479304724 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1479304738 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1479304761 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1479304763 0 :otherbot_!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1479304775 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1479304808 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1479305241 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1479305706 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of that crazy complicated rule 305.7 for the Spreading Seas ability, shouldn't they have made a rule that makes that effect an ordinary copy effect that copies from the Island card? < 1479305731 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's not the same when it interacts with some more tricky effects, but it wouldn't be that much of a change, and it would simplify the rules a lot. < 1479305839 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479305874 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479307622 0 :otherbot_!?@? NICK :otterbot < 1479307817 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4BF3B.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1479308334 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys think that hexadecimal digits should be written in lowercase? C accepts either lowercase or uppercase. many people prefer lowercase. but TeX and dc accept only uppercase. I used to prefer lowercase because they're easier to distinguish from the digits, but these days I'm conflicted. < 1479308596 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1479308760 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-foul < 1479308760 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas said 1h 25m 7s ago: For a two-command generator of underload, isn't there already a less efficient solution: using ^ and (U) where U is a generator of ski-combinator calculus? It is well- < 1479308760 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :known that the latter exists, and you can translate it to an underload term. < 1479308787 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah theoretically it was fairly obvious. < 1479308886 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would usually prefer lower case
< 1479308983 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o kay < 1479309316 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Zarutian Please don't modify HackEgo in private twh < 1479309316 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1479309328 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, HackEgo seems to be gone < 1479309353 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, floating in the inter-channel void < 1479309397 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why does it do that :( ) < 1479309407 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION (started with and) mostly used hexadecimal on 6502 and 680x0, though
< 1479309491 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION learns that his conclusion that ski was responding to the @message was incorrect
< 1479309556 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dowg | grep Zarutian < 1479309567 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1479309576 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1479309593 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :his additions aren't bad enough for me to revert them myself. < 1479309614 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_this_ time.) < 1479309840 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you seem to be confusing this channel with ZenMud tdnh < 1479309878 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess that no longer exists.) < 1479310380 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1479310411 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seemed like a good time to complete the cycle < 1479311145 0 :otterbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1479311264 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries rotating his laptop to read today
< 1479311264 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1479311275 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries rotating his laptop to read today's girl genius. it's still awkward.
< 1479311513 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saves it so it can open it in another program
< 1479312138 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the standard image viewer in windows is more annoying to view this in than MS paint. < 1479312178 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it hides parts with menus etc.) < 1479312178 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "Girl Genius" < 1479312198 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what part was confusing you? :P < 1479312234 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, no part ? < 1479312239 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1479312381 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1479312392 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I see < 1479312743 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479312759 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, ais523 < 1479312773 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1479312779 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is an interesting esolang you submitted, I'll have to think more about it < 1479312798 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will I < 1479312804 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to write a compiler into it at some point, I think < 1479312813 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe from PMMN or from some sort of asm < 1479312827 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I already wrote a program to bruteforce command separators) < 1479312865 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tokenizer rules look like there must be a good solution for a writer algorithm, possibly randomized, but I couldn't prove that yet. I'll try to prove it later. < 1479312902 0 :Bowserinator!?@? NICK :Joseph_Stalin < 1479312936 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a stub entry on the esowiki, but since I don't really understand how the language works at all currently, I didn't write a description. < 1479312965 0 :Joseph_Stalin!?@? NICK :Bowserinator < 1479313364 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: MatrixLang, a programming language that only uses numbers and halfwidth katakana < 1479313391 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally syntax is a fairly irrelevant part of a language < 1479313403 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incident seems to be an exception, and the reason is that it makes things difficult that are normally trivial < 1479313407 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe propagates downward instead of rightward < 1479313443 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea is that "tracing" the code would look at least somewhat like the matrix code stuff < 1479313454 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, even in Incident it seems like the syntax and the semantics are quite separate < 1479313501 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they're very much tied together < 1479313518 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there's some ties, like how the syntax guarantees that there's exactly three of each token < 1479313546 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it looks like for interpreting the language or for producing programs, you have to solve the problem of the tokenizing/detokenizing and the problem of the semantics separately < 1479313557 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could replace one part and still recognize the other part < 1479313570 0 :otherbot!?@? NICK :otterbot < 1479313583 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this respect it doesn't differ much from a lot of languages that have separate token syntax from semantics < 1479313805 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they're not really tied to each other (although the semantics were inspired by the syntax, and to some extent vice versa) < 1479313809 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the syntax is interesting in its own right < 1479313945 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's why I'll try to solve the syntax separately < 1479313974 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because I have the impression you already solve the semantics mostly, though that shouldn't really stop me < 1479313992 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some connections between the syntax and the semantics < 1479314002 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. sometimes you have to add extra "goto statements" to get things in the right order < 1479314036 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a goto isn't 100% reliable because of the trivial infinite loop detector, it can break a loop at your goto, even if without the goto it'd have broken the loop somewhere else < 1479314148 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sometimes you have to add extra "goto statements" to get things in the right order" => um, wait, do you mean add a goto so that the three instances of an instruction are in the right order (which is not part of the tokenizing syntax the way I split it), or add goto so you can write down the token sequence (which I don't think should happen, unless you want to add like specific comments or polyglot stuff) < 1479314163 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ right order (which is not part of the tokenizing syntax the way I split it), or add goto so you can write down the token sequence (which I don't think should happen, unless you want to add like specific comments or polyglot stuff) < 1479314242 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: to get the three incidences into the right order < 1479314279 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the first, second, and third incidences of a command do different things is more a syntax thing than a semantics thing IMO, although I can certainly see it as semantics < 1479314369 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, the part I split and want to solve is the tokenizer syntax, which is where you want to go between a list of instructions (such that every instruction appears exactly three times) and the source code. < 1479314398 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's not really syntax vs semantics, but more like lexer vs (parser and semantics) < 1479314427 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm splitting only the lexer < 1479314462 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can split that way, because the order of the three instructions is present in the list of instructions < 1479314506 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by the way, the anchor command is also in the list of instructions) < 1479314512 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's a good way to think about it < 1479314519 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem of the lexer and the problem of the parser are different < 1479314567 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. but many languages work like that, only in some languages some of the parts are very simple so there's nothing to solve. < 1479314661 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the difference here is not that you need to worry about how the program lexes (that's common, and particularly relevant in golfing), it's that "unlexing" a program is much harder than it normally is < 1479314670 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem's existence isn't unusual, its difficulty is < 1479314709 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for normal non-eso languages, you could in theory make both the lexer and the recursive parser easy, but people don't do that because they want the code to be shorter or look like some other code. < 1479314762 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even in onn-eso languages sometimes there are some difficulties in the syntax, like strange ambiguities that can bite programmers (running into some form of the statement vs declaration ambiguity is a rite of passage for C++ programmers) < 1479314822 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl and ruby has uglier lexer ambiguities too, as well as parser ambiguities < 1479314838 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often the two interact in ugly ways (they do interact a little bit in C++ too, but not much) < 1479314908 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1479316347 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479316351 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I don't know hth < 1479316351 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1479316649 0 :otterbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Excess Flood < 1479316723 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-97-58.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1479316738 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479317655 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1479318450 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1479319574 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1479319583 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1479319646 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( What are proof ordinals? Are there setups [which are whatever-proof-ordinals-describe] with finite proof ordinals? )
< 1479319733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the smallest ordinal that the proof system can't describe < 1479320688 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah? < 1479320734 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In classical english (possibly still UK English), were the words "check" and "cheque" different with "cheque" merged, or were they both "cheque" and they both became "check"? < 1479320739 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the former < 1479320786 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg6q8h5k1utde0k.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1479320851 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], in UK English, check and cheque are different words < 1479320858 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Figured < 1479320876 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would not be surprised if they came from the same root < 1479320885 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With cheque being a later borrowing from French < 1479320973 0 :hppavilion[0]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1479321117 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1479321420 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1479321430 0 :hppavilion[0]!?@? NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1479321521 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Last slide of which? < 1479321618 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479321782 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlhvwtxaxzzbmfjm JOIN :#esoteric < 1479321910 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1479322566 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479322903 0 :wlp1s1!jeffl@unaffiliated/iczero QUIT :Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit ... < 1479322955 0 :iczero!jeffl@unaffiliated/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1479323676 0 :iczero!?@? NICK :wlp1s1 < 1479324198 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1479324397 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479324633 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-88.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1479324933 0 :sewilton!uid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnvxejivtngsdiqh JOIN :#esoteric < 1479324982 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.google/products/translate/found-translation-more-accurate-fluent-sentences-google-translate/ < 1479324986 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today we’re putting Neural Machine Translation into action with a total of eight language pairs to and from English and French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Turkish. These represent the native languages of around one-third of the world's population, covering more than 35% of all Google Translate queries! < 1479324998 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :35% is lower than i thought < 1479325213 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would speculate a lot of the use of Google Translate is English -> your less common language < 1479325220 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller european countries, etc. < 1479325415 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1479326481 0 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg69xv6ru3d73fv.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1479326502 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg6q8h5k1utde0k.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1479326502 0 :AnotherTest_!?@? NICK :AnotherTest < 1479329587 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1479329607 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1479329629 0 :The_Prospector|2!~The_Prosp@c-73-239-179-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479329643 0 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479329778 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1479329783 0 :The_Prospector!~The_Prosp@unaffiliated/cornman QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1479330714 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1479331402 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479331788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1479332414 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwayne Johnson is plotting a run for president < 1479332500 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho run. < 1479332835 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1479333715 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1479333830 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-90.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1479334040 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 80 < 1479334040 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :80.00°F = 26.67°C < 1479334756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1479335157 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg69xv6ru3d73fv.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1479335361 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1479335397 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ktoc 0 < 1479335398 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ktoc: not found < 1479335402 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1479335454 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1479335608 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mitokm 20 < 1479335609 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mitokm: not found < 1479335633 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` units 0tempK tempC < 1479335635 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ -273.15 < 1479335716 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1479335738 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1479335771 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a reversed I there? < 1479335779 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tab. < 1479335782 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a ta... < 1479335790 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a tab? < 1479335804 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because untis outputs one. < 1479335811 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, alternatively, why isn't it displayed as a tab? < 1479335821 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1479335824 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because irssi has different ideas < 1479335835 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is tab verboten by irc somehow < 1479335841 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, variable nickname widths mean that tabs have only limited use) < 1479335910 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, imagine someone just putting 450 tab characters in a message... that would be almost enough to clear a 80x24 screen. < 1479335934 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm guessing... no clue what reason the irssi authors had. < 1479335939 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1479336114 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i go to a local haskell user group? < 1479336135 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1479336212 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will modify tcc to add the features I want < 1479336295 0 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: and of course there's https://github.com/shabble/irssi-scripts/blob/master/tab_stop/tab_stop.pl < 1479336521 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine an extended C with hundreds of operators at over 50 precedence levels < 1479336576 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: make sure to add built-in min and max operators among the hundred! < 1479336577 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many standard functions replaced with crazy expletives like $%+! < 1479336600 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also to keep the original operators of C) < 1479336613 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1479336737 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>: will be the min operator, <: the max < 1479336775 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a >:= b means, set a to b if b is smaller than a < 1479336776 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I don't think that works. <: is already used, and >: can conflict with existing combination of tokens < 1479336789 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1479336793 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<: is used? < 1479336796 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: it's not so easy to find nice looking combinations of punctuation that won't break existing code < 1479336804 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1479336834 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, digraphs < 1479336876 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about <| < 1479336937 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. I think <| is more or less safe, but might conflict with that possible future C++ language extension where | is a prefix operator like * and & < 1479336961 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as it doesn't conflict with C < 1479336981 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't conflict with C < 1479337019 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a C++ person really, I don't like C++ extensions that trample on C features, and C extensions that trample on C++ features < 1479337069 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C committee is awful < 1479337078 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few cases where the C and the C++ feature appeared roughly in the same time and conflict, and that was back in ancient times before fast communications on the internet, so you can't really fault either side: these include the double uses of clog and remove in the library. < 1479337095 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are a few cases when clearly one side is at fault for doing something that conflicts with the other side < 1479337139 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually the C++ committee picked the better thing < 1479337144 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ~| and ~& as binary nor and nand < 1479337193 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!&& and !|| as logical nor and nand < 1479337218 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with !!| or |!| < 1479337228 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in many cases, I don't like how the C++ committee won't take the good features from C, or take them very late. this is about C complexes the most importantly. complex numbers really should be a built-in language feature, not a library thing. < 1479337240 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1479337342 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one case where I definitely fault the C++ committee is the naming of the identifiers in the header. they took the design of atomic variables from C, which is a good thing, but they assigned them identifiers that conflict with the C use, which sucks, because now you can't easily use those identifiers in C headers that may be included from C < 1479337342 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1479337346 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really need is a tool to figure out what combinations remain undefined in the lexer table < 1479337405 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: that's not so simple, because there are combinations that are impossible because of the grammar < 1479337415 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not quaternions or hyperreals or all kinds of binarys trees and fibonacci heaps for built-in features? < 1479337445 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many, mind you, but a few < 1479337452 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I think strings should eb built in < 1479337470 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: complexes can be optimized in useful ways if the compiler knows about them < 1479337489 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: iirc there was work underway to make the atomics compatible? < 1479337490 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can he with a library < 1479337494 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that's true of libraries too < 1479337545 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the behavior of complexes can depend on those floating point compilation option switch thingies, which further makes it easier to implement it as optimized builtins than as library stuff < 1479337557 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@74-114-87-90.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1479337572 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: again, no reason a library can't do that < 1479337575 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you could still have complexes as a library feature, since even then the library could use compiler-specific knowledge and intrinsics < 1479337581 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1479337586 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know of good reasons < 1479337588 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard only requires that the interface exposed be that of a library < 1479337592 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would rather have the compiler asking the öibrary on optimization methods than moving random stuff into the core < 1479337597 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like complexes would be nicer as built-in < 1479337601 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing requires the stdlib to actually be written as source < 1479337606 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit my reasons for it aren't sound < 1479337608 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1479337621 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC clang has a number of optimizations for std types < 1479337622 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexes aren't random stuff! < 1479337634 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they are < 1479337644 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not move io into primitives, since they depend on syscalls? < 1479337645 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: sure, and gcc has library stuff too that essentially just calls a built-in < 1479337651 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :or strings, since they're so important < 1479337658 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: gcc does know about some io primitives < 1479337663 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many, but some < 1479337679 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right, many standard libraries refer back to compiler intrinsics < 1479337684 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't even need to do that < 1479337714 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason, from a standard perspective, that the standard types themselves couldn't be built-in < 1479337727 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for strings, obviously the compiler knows a lot about some of the loops that are used for strings a lot, and all forms of memcpy and memmove, both library calls and various loops and expanded form. copying comes up so much that the compiler must optimize it well. < 1479337747 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: sure, technically < 1479337765 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but declaring them in the library makes the library implementation more readable to humans < 1479337770 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1479337771 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in non-eso compilers it makes sense < 1479337783 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems like an argument in favour of libraries in general and against moving things to core :) < 1479337849 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1479337863 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also apparently some developers are very fond of these crazy ides that try to parse code as you type and give you all sorts of intrusive completion tips and error messages and red squiggle underlines and lightbulbs in the middle of each word you type, < 1479337877 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so having each identifier declared in library headers would help those ides < 1479337877 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be very useful < 1479337881 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :also very annoying < 1479337890 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be very useful if used sanely < 1479337892 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that wouldn't help at all < 1479337896 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use that kind of things though < 1479337898 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the way SOME of my coworkers use them < 1479337901 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :such editors need compiler support for C++ < 1479337905 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi, zzo38 < 1479337920 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or else they need to reimplement a *significant* part of the C++ semantic analysis < 1479337924 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1479337936 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have a hypothetical M:tG templating question for you < 1479337955 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: not reimplement as such, just use part of an existing implementation < 1479337979 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: but if you're using the compiler to do that analysis < 1479337989 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would know the standard types < 1479338006 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time it wouldn't is if you were using a separate compiler for your IDE and for your compilation < 1479338010 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bad idea for many reasons < 1479338032 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in any case wouldn't work with the same stdlib < 1479338034 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Instead of that crazy complicated rule 305.7 for the Spreading Seas ability, shouldn't they have made a rule that makes that effect an ordinary copy effect that copies from the Island card? < 1479338039 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's not the same when it interacts with some more tricky effects, but it wouldn't be that much of a change, and it would simplify the rules a lot. < 1479338047 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what your idea is about that alternate rule. < 1479338067 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: I guess < 1479338219 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think rule 305.7 is certainly a bit klugy. A copy effect that copies from the Island card it seems won't work though < 1479338251 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1479338263 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, there does not seem a better way than the current rule 305.7 without making the card text too complicated < 1479338288 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: There is not anything for it to copy. < 1479338413 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's a problem. If you don't want to imagine it as a copy effect, then imagine it as some similar effect that overwrites all the copyable values and base characteristics of the card, like those rules about face down permanents being 2/2 creatures with no other characteristics, or those about which part of split/flip/double-sided obj < 1479338413 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ects are read in certain cases. < 1479338460 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is, the effect should overwrite all the characteristics of the card, and all at the same layer, leaving nothing of the original at that point, rather than being a hodge-podge of effects that apply in various layers and on various parts of the characteristics inconsistently. < 1479338506 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already tries to act on the abilities of the card at such an early point, to remove only certain abilities that were printed on it. < 1479338735 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, I do think it could be a real copy effect. < 1479338775 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are already effects that turn a permanent to a copy of an exiled card; and there are effects that examine the characteristics of a card outside the game, and there are rules for what those characteristics are; < 1479338844 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you only need a little patch to allow the rules to examine pristine copies of some Island outside the game that the players don't even own, like some particular Island card exhibited in the gatherer or something. < 1479338889 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes it could do that; the text of a default Island is simple: its name is Island, its type is land, its subtype is Island, and its other text is blank. < 1479338925 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(O, and its supertype is basic.) < 1479338974 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1479338977 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need this for all five plain basic lands, not only Island, but still < 1479338995 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although that is still simple; only its names and subtypes differ. < 1479339001 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there 11 basic lands? < 1479339015 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but only five are the "conventional basic lands". < 1479339015 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comp rules basically already know about those five cards: it mentions them explicitly for limited deck construction rules < 1479339029 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't specifically list their oracle values, but so what < 1479339035 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oracle is needed for the rules anyway < 1479339069 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Conventional" is the term I made up myself for these five basic lands, since there does not seem to be another word for them.) < 1479339082 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic basic lands < 1479339101 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if a literal copy effect is inconvenient for some reason, you could use some other phrasing that acts at that low layer, like the ones used for morph objects etc < 1479339103 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: As far as I am concerned they should be separate since not all cards are necessarily legal in all formats, and some people may play unofficial formats with custom cards. < 1479339172 0 :farrioth!~farrioth@125.236.137.9 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1479339197 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it seems that for some reason they don't do static copy effects; Volrath's Shapeshifter used to be but they changed it into a static text-changing effect. < 1479339269 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh indeed, they changed the rules for Primal Clay too, and that's for the good < 1479339291 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they still have those effects for morph, split cards, flip cards, and double-faced cards < 1479339295 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and meld cards of course) < 1479339339 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Those are the initial text of the object due to the object's status. < 1479339351 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And copies can also be modified by the copy's status.) < 1479339360 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and they are templates for when you copy from those objects < 1479339423 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mind you, those rules are quite tricky, because some of them act differently on the stack, on tb, and elsewhere (plus there's special rules for cmc and color-identity but that probably doesn't matter) < 1479339439 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand how all the zone rules work < 1479339441 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1479339445 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I would think, the status of an object affects which of an object's initial texts applies to it. < 1479339462 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only permanents have status though, although any object can be face-down. < 1479339569 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, regardless of whether it worked as a copy effect or how it does now (as a type-changing effect), I still think perhaps an improvement could be made: saying it becomes a "normal Island" shall remove its rules text. < 1479339580 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... well, technically I think only objects otb, in exile, and on stack can be face up or face down; objects in gy are always revealed and objects in hand or library or sideboard are always hidden, and hidden means they don't have properties, except momentarily when they're revealed < 1479339631 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think not quite; a card can be temporarily face-down while in a player's hand, and it lacks characteristics at that time. See rule 120.8. < 1479339652 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know what the templating should be. I think they should just have been printed with reminder text so you don't forget that rule: that's viable because most such cards have short enough text box that the reminder text usually fits. < 1479339694 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think less klugy rules make more sense, and then just adding the word "normal" to mean what the rules currently mean. < 1479339702 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... right. I'm not sure if that counts as face down, or just hidden from even the player, but probably doesn't matter < 1479339730 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, objects in the command zone can be face down. < 1479339764 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, Sea's Claim should be printed without the reminder text for "enchant" and then you can fit two more lines of whatever templating or reminder you want < 1479339773 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even three if you reduce the size of text < 1479339789 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes... you're right, I forgot about the command zone < 1479339796 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1479339808 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conspiracies and planes and schemes can be face up or face down < 1479339818 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does say "while face down, it's considered to have no characteristics"; therefore http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.7 (the rule was not numbered 120.8 at that time, although the rule still work in the same way) < 1479339835 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1479339863 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spreading Seas have a bit more rules text, but still you could fit something on it < 1479339897 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should normally to omit the reminder text it is not needed < 1479339900 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you say "is a normal island"... let me think < 1479339918 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the text is especially confusing, in which case it can help. But usually the text is not confusing if you know the rules) < 1479339942 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "Enchanted land is a normal island." fit in one line with the largest font size used? I think it just barely fits. < 1479339990 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On both of those two cards you mentioned it seems like it might fit < 1479340021 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, you can change it to Mountain if you want to for this test, since "Mountain" is a longer word than "Island".) < 1479340032 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how would you template cards like Tideshaper Mystic then? < 1479340067 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... becomes a normal land of the basic land type of ..." < 1479340071 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Elsewhere Flask < 1479340104 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "... becomes normal and that type ..." < 1479340130 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could work < 1479340215 0 :hppavilion[1]!~doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1479340605 0 :yorick_!?@? NICK :yorick < 1479340667 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client