00:00:09 * moonheart08 finally got around to making HBL's wiki page 00:03:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:08:48 Hufvudstadsbladet? 00:08:55 I was wondering why that did not have a page 00:10:01 I don't get Python's timezone stuff: http://sprunge.us/MXJi 00:10:03 "If you merely want to attach a time zone object tz to a datetime dt without adjustment of date and time data, use dt.replace(tzinfo=tz)." That sounds exactly what I want, but when I try it, I get this weird "offset by -1 minute" timezone. 00:10:09 * moonheart08 goes off to attempt to repopulate #irp 00:12:00 http://sprunge.us/UASa idgi tdnh 00:14:26 Okay, apparently it needs to be pytz.timezone('Europe/London').localize() instead. 00:15:17 I think I probably knew this at some point. 00:16:01 * DHeadshot idles in #irp all day... 00:30:52 I also wrote a program you can calculate a GURPS character's life expectancy, assuming that someone doesn't murder them, using a simulation, and using the inputs: strength, dexterity, intelligence, health, increase/short lifespan level, medical TL, longevity, self-destruction. 00:31:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:35:31 shachaf: I couldn't find the Okapi interpreter either but see now https://github.com/catseye/Chrysoberyl/issues/7 00:36:02 int-e: I see that now too. 00:36:59 (it's worth a try :) ) 00:39:30 -!- computing has joined. 00:39:50 moonello 00:40:17 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:40:38 hi 00:41:26 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:44:04 -!- computing has quit (Client Quit). 01:30:41 -!- Nithogg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:38:09 [wiki] [[Kitanai]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50293&oldid=50288 * Sygmei * (+29) /* Examples */ 01:44:18 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:51:15 [wiki] [[Kitanai]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50294&oldid=50293 * Sygmei * (+20) /* Examples */ 02:00:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:00:50 oerjan: Oh hi 02:01:00 oerjan: That was me being online to inform someone where I was 02:01:07 I just got home. 02:04:58 `? cut elimination 02:05:01 The cut-elimination theorem states that any Prolog program written using the cut operator ! can be rewritten without using that operator. 02:05:28 How many possible subcommittees are there in a chamber of n distinct individuals? 02:07:21 Given that a subcommittee is a subset S of the total chamber C, where |C| > |S| ≥ 2, and that an individual can be a member of more than one subcommittee, but that subcommittees with identical membership are considered the same 02:09:04 * DHeadshot thinks 2 am is too late for his mind to do set theory... 02:09:54 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 02:10:28 I think *probably* \Sum{n = 2}{n < |C|}{\binomco{|C|}{n}} 02:10:47 Or something very similar, like |C|-2 in the top or -1 from the whole thing or something 02:12:12 (Hm, but what if we have the subcommittees have a special member p who is the chair? Then a subcommittee is (p, S) where S is the set of members, p is the chair, and p \in S... so the number of chaired subcommittees of size N is N times the number of chairless subcommittees of size N...) 02:13:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 02:25:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:25:52 hppavilion[1]: without chairs, it's simply 2^|C| - |C| - 1 hth 02:27:30 -!- Sygmei has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:27:37 oerjan: ty 02:28:00 That should've been obvious but I am tired. 02:28:18 oh wait 02:28:23 make that -2 02:28:32 there's also the empty set to exclude 02:28:57 with chairs, hm... |C| * (2^|C-1| - 2) i think 02:30:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:32:18 Ah, yes 02:33:00 oerjan: Wait, |C-1|? 02:33:45 oerjan: How does that- wait- OK, what? 02:34:56 er, |C|-1 02:35:17 (|C|-1) 02:35:51 it's |C-{p}|, really 02:36:11 Ah 02:36:32 oerjan: Is it? p has to be a member of the subcommittee... 02:36:33 Hm... 02:36:50 you've already chosen p, now you choose the rest... 02:36:59 Ah 02:37:09 Our definitions are probably equivalent, tbh 02:37:31 i should hope so 02:37:47 this is "just" combinatorics 02:38:39 (aka one of the hardest subfields of math :P) 02:39:16 the subfield that counts the most 02:48:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:08:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:08:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:40:31 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:42:34 Sometimes in JavaScript programming I use String.prototype.replace even when not needing to replace anything; the result will sometimes be discarded. 03:49:14 zzo38: Have you used C#? 03:52:38 No 04:30:46 How to restore the cursor properly? I have sending "\x1B[m\x1B[?6;7;66;67s\x1B[?42;66;69;1049h\x1B[?4;6;7;25;44;67l\x1B F\x1B[r\x1B%@\x1B(B\x1B)0" when the program starts (followed by stty), and then "\x1B[r\x0F\x1B[?25h\x1B[?69;1049l\x1B[?6;7;66;67r" (again followed by stty) when program is stopped. But, the cursor is now always moved to the top left corner instead of restored properly. 04:30:54 Can you notice what I have done wrong? 04:33:57 <^v> zzo38, a breakdown of those ansi codes would help :^) 04:34:12 <^v> for those who dont have a table lying around 04:41:40 -!- harvey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:53:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Alas.). 04:53:42 -!- hydraz has quit (Quit: Bai.). 04:54:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZZ). 04:54:17 -!- harvey has joined. 04:54:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:54:46 is there any brainfuck implementation that understands that these are the same? +[>.+] +[>.<] 04:54:51 -!- hydraz has joined. 04:54:51 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 04:54:51 -!- hydraz has joined. 05:02:12 -!- harvey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:04:32 -!- centrinia has joined. 05:06:35 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:09:14 -!- centrinia has quit (Client Quit). 05:11:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:12:24 *DING* Dropped a crate of bells 05:13:54 Jafet: It appears no one else did 05:13:55 So 05:14:03 * hppavilion[1] *THWACK*'s Jafet 05:14:14 * hppavilion[1] returns the thwacker 05:14:26 -!- harvey has joined. 05:24:07 -!- harvey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:38:45 -!- harvey has joined. 05:45:10 -!- tswett_ has joined. 05:45:27 Foooolks 05:45:51 I'm creating a language called Tokiber and writing a Tokiber-to-C# compiler in C# and then gradually translating it to Tokiber! 05:47:19 Trying to write Tokiber in Tokiber is making me realize that Tokiber really sucks. 05:52:08 -!- harvey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:57:23 Optimising languages for ease of writing compilers has certainly taken us a good long way :) 05:58:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Alas.). 05:58:55 -!- hydraz has quit (Quit: Bai.). 05:59:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:00:06 -!- hydraz has joined. 06:00:06 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 06:00:06 -!- hydraz has joined. 06:03:49 -!- harvey has joined. 06:05:21 -!- harvey has quit (Client Quit). 06:06:32 tswett_: wo*w 06:22:10 ^v: http://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html 06:29:36 `grwp necessary 06:29:44 .doorstop:You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. \ issue:You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. \ keenlist:keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast \ necessity:If necessity d 06:30:06 `` grwp necessary | sport 06:30:09 1/2:.doorstop:You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. \ issue:You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. \ keenlist:keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast \ necessi 06:30:17 `spam 06:30:18 2/2:ty:If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it. \ Binary file reflection matches 06:41:34 ~V is the same as ^v, correct? 06:41:36 `? ~ 06:41:37 ~? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 06:41:41 `? ^ 06:41:42 ^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator. 06:44:35 What about ˆ? 06:45:43 And ̂? 07:11:11 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 07:16:05 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 07:24:51 Cale: Funny ending to eO4pr-r3OCf 07:33:55 hahahaha 07:33:55 -!- ffj-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:33:55 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 07:34:04 wtf zemora 07:42:03 shachaf: I'm pretty sure Turn 11 was what lost you that game 07:42:16 Just getting the wall seems to go much better for you 07:44:39 You're right, I'm not sure why I did that. 07:45:06 Maybe an irrational aversion to suboptimal absorb. But two drones is a high price to pay for that. 07:45:29 [wiki] [[Alex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50295&oldid=50290 * Slnetaiga * (+276) 07:46:16 I was only half paying attention for some of that. 07:46:22 Anyway the ending was frustratingly close. 08:28:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:51:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:52:04 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:02:28 -!- Gregor has joined. 09:03:27 [wiki] [[Alex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50296&oldid=50295 * Slnetaiga * (+55) 09:42:33 -!- ffj-bot has joined. 10:04:39 Did ais523 finally get a programming language named after him? :> 10:05:42 (Like Ada and Haskell, you see. The highest honor for computer scientists) 10:12:05 lynn: I thought ais was "andrew"?? 10:13:06 nope, Alex Smith 10:13:20 (but what does the i stand for?) 10:14:46 lynn: iͥ 10:15:10 (that's an 'i' with a smaller 'i' in place of a tittle) 10:18:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: SLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP). 10:19:55 this language doesn't seem particularly honourable 10:20:25 quick, make a better one and name it smith 10:55:20 -!- Nithogg has joined. 12:51:59 lynn: Haskell Curry had quite many things named after him 12:52:27 A whole of three programming languages, one for his first name, one for the middle name, and one for the surname 12:55:50 curry is a great language 13:21:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:00:46 -!- scoofy has joined. 14:10:02 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 14:17:33 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:18:06 -!- boily has joined. 14:18:26 `wisdom 14:18:41 cdop//CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order. 14:20:56 -!- Akaibu has joined. 14:42:47 -!- wanderman has joined. 14:53:04 `relcome wanderman 14:53:08 wanderman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 14:53:24 :) 14:54:36 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:21:40 `unidecode iͥ 15:21:42 [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+0365 COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER I] 15:26:11 -!- Zarutian has joined. 15:26:30 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:27:37 Oh hey, Cale and shachaf were talking about Prismata. 15:27:44 I CRACKED YOUR CODE 15:28:13 -!- Zarutian has joined. 15:28:19 I'm gonna play Prismata. 15:36:59 Yes... I almost remember how to play this. 15:37:16 My last time playing was a couple of weeks ago. 15:39:58 tswellott_. what's a prismata? 15:40:33 It's this game. http://prismata.net/ 15:40:47 Billed as "the best parts of StarCraft and Hearthstone". 15:40:59 But I'm pretty sure it's also a game of perfect information. 15:45:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:46:33 hellørjan. 15:47:07 helloily! 15:55:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:56:24 -!- heroux has joined. 15:57:41 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 15:59:11 quick, make a better one and name it smith <-- cpressey already did hth 15:59:40 it's somewhat unlikely to be named after ais523, being from 2000. 16:00:59 "You have been defeated by Pacifist Bot." 16:01:00 Damn. 16:01:21 it is, however, pretty clearly a better language than Alex. 16:01:44 tswett_: did it negotiate you into submission 16:02:24 Something like that. 16:02:28 uhm. should I be concerned about that Alex thing? 16:02:54 i doubt it. looks very brainfuck-inspired (except syntax) 16:04:50 it's only positive value is if it finally causes ais523 to explode and go on a brainfuck derivative crusade. 16:04:53 *its 16:05:31 lol 16:06:23 (the syntax is, of course, _more_ boring than brainfuck's) 16:07:42 So, with my last defeat, I just resigned. 16:07:49 This time, Pacifist Bot actually defeated me. 16:07:56 By, like, attacking. 16:08:09 I thought it was supposed to, like, not do that. 16:08:15 THAT SOUNDS LIKE CHEATING 16:24:29 There, I did it. I defeated Pacifist Bot on Bullet speed. 16:28:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:33:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:34:52 And I've defeated Wacky Bot on Bullet as well. \o/ 16:38:00 Guys, Bullet speed is really fast. 16:51:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:57:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:59:07 * boily needs his weekly dose of diacritical soup 16:59:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMPANY CHICKEN). 17:12:26 -!- wander___ has joined. 17:13:41 -!- wanderman has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:15:44 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:28:47 I failed to defeat Basic Bot on Bullet speed. It's almost like Bullet is really fast or something! 17:29:00 Hey, there's something I think I forgot to mention. 17:29:01 Bullet is fast. 17:29:50 i'm not sure i'm getting you, are you saying that bullet speed is fast twh 17:36:20 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 17:38:37 No, I'm actually saying that Bullet speed is extremely slow. 17:38:49 Each turn lasts billions and billions of nanoseconds. 17:38:56 <\oren\> Hooray, nuclear powered turbojet 17:39:13 <\oren\> I can flyyyyy forevaaaaaaa 17:40:04 I also failed at Blitz and then Rapid, so let's try Quick. 17:48:46 what about Glacial hth 17:49:29 Glacial is brutal, you only get 1,209,600 seconds per turn. 17:49:36 shocking 17:50:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:58:04 -!- iczero has changed nick to wlp1s1. 17:58:35 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:58:52 ais, hi! I wanted to say two things yesterday but couldn't catch you 17:59:30 (why _do_ people abbreviate nicks, haven't they heard of highlighting?) 17:59:46 hi 17:59:59 oerjan: he just came in, he's obviously listening 18:00:01 no need to ping him 18:00:16 oerjan: occasionally it's specifically to avoid highlighting someone unless they're paying attention to the channel 18:00:16 (i.e. "if you're around and paying attention I want to talk to you, otherwise I don't care) 18:00:16 " 18:00:16 ) 18:00:18 OKAY 18:00:19 hmm 18:01:06 Woohoo, I managed to beat Basic Bot on Normal. 18:02:20 tsewtt_: how basic is this basic bot? 18:03:00 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:03:05 I'd estimate the pH of this bot at about 9. 18:03:29 I'm not sure I can fix this mispunctuation by adding on more characters 18:03:29 =~s/\)$// 18:03:42 that is a basic estimation 18:04:17 Here's a stupid challenge that's probably trivially impossible. 18:04:41 Write a sequence of /// commands that just removes all slashes and backslashes from everything that follows. 18:04:48 "approximately equal to substituting nothing to an escaped closing parenthesis and a line beginning" 18:05:05 $ is definitely a line ending. 18:05:11 apologies 18:06:12 It seems like you can't do the /// thing. You have to either remove the slashes first, and then you won't be able to remove the backslashes; or you have to remove the backslashes first and then you can't remove the slashes. 18:06:23 tswett_: that does seem tricky. 18:06:37 But I'm not confident that there's no way to overcome this. 18:07:14 tswett_: it's fairly easy if you have a spare character to use 18:07:18 Let's make it a little easier, and say that you can assume that the following stuff consists only of slashes, backslashes, and uppercase letters. 18:07:26 ais523: I just gave us a lot of spare characters. 18:07:28 How do you do it? 18:07:37 wait, maybe not 18:08:02 Now, it's easy to see that once you do /\///, you can't do any more substitutions. 18:08:09 So if we use that command, it has to be the last command. 18:08:38 And once you do /\\//, you can never do any substitutions involving either slash. 18:10:28 I mean, looking at it from a strictly "how useful is this program" point of view, you only need to remove all backslashes with a run length > 2 then all slashes, and the remaining backslashes will just disappear as the rest of the program prints itself 18:11:04 Right, and that's really easy. 18:11:15 /\\\\///\/// 18:12:05 I think the last command has to be someting like /\\\/// 18:12:11 if it's possible at all 18:12:18 -!- wander___ has quit (Quit: byebye). 18:12:19 but it's hard to see how you'd get into a position for that to work 18:16:27 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:19:54 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 18:25:44 I feel like I want to get to the point where I have a pretty good strategy against Basic Bot. 18:25:59 The set I'm using is... 18:26:13 whatjs this bot thing about? 18:27:05 Iso Kronus 5G; Shredder 5B; Lancetooth 6BAA; Drake 12BB; Apollo 13BBB; Cynestra 12GGGR; Hellhound 5BR; Centurion 18GGBBR. 18:27:08 ...where A is attack. 18:27:21 myname: Prismata. http://prismata.net/ 18:27:28 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: Viivan loppu.). 18:27:33 There are a whole lot of blue units. 18:28:07 I wonder if I can win using one blue as my only tech. 18:28:33 Against Pacifist bot? 18:29:01 -!- Deewiant has joined. 18:30:30 looks like another awesome game that i may not be able to play 18:31:28 shachaf: nah, Basic. 18:31:32 My guess is no, I can't do that. 18:32:15 "one blue" meaning that you build one Blastforge and then can use the blue every turn? 18:32:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:32:45 You should almost certainly be building drones at the beginning. 18:32:51 Especially if you're going blue? 18:33:07 You're going to be in the wabe if you don't. 18:33:11 Economically speaking. 18:33:45 "the area of grass surrounding a sundial"? 18:34:49 I just meant "way behind" in this usage. 18:35:02 I guess "wabe" also means "way before". 18:35:55 the one thing i am interested in are the supported plattforms and i fail to find that information 18:36:23 The supported platform is Adobe Macromedia Shockwave Flash. 18:36:34 srsly? 18:36:38 srsly 18:37:53 You can download a Windows client, but it uses Adobe Air. 18:37:55 Whatever that is. 18:38:07 that is interesting 18:38:24 in theory, adobe air allows porting to android 18:38:30 Poor tswett_'s Blastforge is gone now. 18:38:41 You watchin' me? 18:38:50 Well, I'd better continue playing. 18:39:10 Your strategy isn't very successful. 18:39:21 This is true. 18:40:46 So, going with one Blastforge only, and then buying only Shredders, doesn't work out too hot. 18:41:16 Let's try that again, then. This time, my tech shall consist of two Blastforges. 18:41:36 This doesn't seem like an effective strategy. 18:42:11 Somehow you're playing with the same set. 18:43:07 This is correct. 18:43:33 Well, with more drones your life is easier. 18:43:37 So with Drake, clicking and consuming a Blastforge gives you two attack. 18:43:42 Is that a permanent buff to Drake? 18:44:20 No, just the current turn. 18:45:10 So I'm essentially 5, or maybe it's 5B, to get AA. 18:45:35 It doesn't cost blue. 18:45:44 But if you have an extra blastforge you don't need, it's free. 18:46:01 And even if you don't, it threatens two every turn, whether you use it or not. 18:46:17 So if your opponent doesn't want to be breached they'll have to build extra defense. 18:47:13 That's true. 18:48:31 This pure-shredder strategy seems dubious. 18:50:48 Yup, it sure does. 18:53:55 Well this is kinda funny. 18:53:59 Let's see, am I gonna win? 18:54:10 Dunno. 18:54:24 I wrote a program it will send "\x1B[m\x1B[?6;7;66;67s\x1B[?42;66;69;1049h\x1B[?4;6;7;25;44;67l\x1B F\x1B[r\x1B%@\x1B(B\x1B)0" when it start and will send "\x1B[m\x1B[?42;66;69h\x1B[?4;6;7;25;44l\x1B%@\x1B(B\x1B)0\x1B[r\x1B[2J\x1B[H" when it stop but it failed to restore the cursor properly. Do you know what is wrong please? 18:54:49 The answer is yes, I am gonna win. 18:54:57 It'll just take a minute. 18:55:08 No, wait. 18:55:33 oh man 18:55:36 it's a draw 18:56:26 zzo38: I think some terminals just don't support saving and restoring the cursor, or not with the same sequence. what terminal are you using? 18:56:37 I am using xterm 18:56:42 perhaps you can ask for help from ais to debug that stuff 18:57:07 Does the game automatically declare a draw after a while? 18:58:33 If it hasn't done so by turn 103, I figure it's probably not going to. 19:00:30 Actually the code I used at the end is "\x1B[r\x0F\x1B[?25h\x1B[?69;1049l\x1B[?6;7;66;67r" I have instead copied from some other file by mistake 19:01:27 I'm gonna go eat food. 19:01:37 I think there used to be a "proffer draw" button but it might be gone. 19:04:06 zzo38: you should probably add "\x1B7" before the "\x1B[?42;66;69;1049h" command, and "\x1B8" after the "\x1B[?69;1049l" command 19:05:52 also, why do you turn on ?42 while starting, and not restore it whie ending? it's unlikely that you'd want to change that option at all in my experience 19:06:00 (that won't affect your cursor problem though) 19:10:42 -!- tswett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:14:46 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 19:16:24 O, OK, I will do that 19:17:29 That didn't fix it. Vim properly saves and restores the cursor, so why doesn't this program work? 19:18:01 it's hard to debug this because you're sending so many codes, it's easy to miss the one that's causing the problem 19:18:28 wait, how does the language you're using parse "\x1B7"? that needs to be an ESC and a 7, not a single U+01B7 character 19:18:45 also, where does the cursor end up? that might be a clue 19:19:07 Cursor moved to the top of the screen 19:19:41 The language is JavaScript and it does parse "\x1B7" as ESC and then 7; I have tested that 19:20:50 the code you're sending at the end is "\x1B[r\x0F\x1B[?25h\x1B[?69;1049l\x1B[?6;7;66;67r", right? 19:22:28 Yes, although I have now added 42 to the restore list and \x1B8 19:22:39 luckily almost all languages parse \x like C does, taking only up to two hexits 19:23:48 that parses as "default scrolling region, select standard character set, set private mode 25 (which is 'show cursor'), disable private modes 69 and 1049 (which are 'left and right margins' and 'alternate screen buffer with cursor saving'), reset private modes 6, 7, 66, 67 (which are 'origin mode', 'wraparound mode', 'application keypad', 'backarrow sends backspace')" 19:24:28 zzo38: actually, try moving the "\x1B[?6;7;66;67r" command to before the "\x1B[?69;1049l" command; I'm not 100% sure what modes 6 and 7 do but they look cursor-related 19:24:33 so it's possible that resetting htem could move the cursor 19:24:33 ais523: huh, have you efd it to your terminal control sequence debugger in pretty-print mode? 19:24:40 OK I will try 19:24:44 wob_jonas: no, I'm reading the docs 19:24:56 I don't have a terminal control sequence debugger 19:25:03 I do have a ton of different documentation on terminal codes though 19:25:07 That worked 19:25:10 Thank you 19:25:36 (I don't know why I did not think of that) 19:25:47 the ESC 7 and ESC 8 aren't needed in a terminal that understands private mode 1049, but a) many terminals don't, b) xterm does but it can be configured not to 19:25:53 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Reboot). 19:26:12 (I'm not sure why you'd configure it not to, but apparently this is a common enough request that it's requested repeatedly in the documentation; perhaps some programs use it inappropriately) 19:29:55 ais523: yes. in particular urxvt's docs patched with http://lists.schmorp.de/pipermail/rxvt-unicode/attachments/20130406/6745aceb/attachment-0003.patch (see http://lists.schmorp.de/pipermail/rxvt-unicode/2013q2/001780.html for context) documents a ton of escape sequences, although it doesn't document which terminals support which. 19:30:00 or the detailed behaviour 19:30:43 nowadays I prefer to go by ecma-48, which isn't a terminal standard at all 19:31:12 I guess the best way to think about it is this: imagine if HTML was originally designed back in the days before monitors were invented 19:31:29 and people used it to write documents that would print out nicely on their printers 19:31:49 then someone decided to invent the monitor, and decided that they'd implement a subset of HTML in order to encode various formatting 19:31:54 not everything applies but much of it does 19:32:02 that's basically the relationship between ecma-48 and terminal codes 19:32:34 now, if you're adding a new feature to an HTML-based terminal, you'd try to take the corresponding HTML tag, right? so logically, new terminal features should be based on ecma-48 19:32:38 (and in practice, many of them are) 19:33:03 "then someone decided to invent the monitor" 19:33:16 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ender scythe * New user account 19:34:14 "now, if you're adding a new feature to an HTML-based terminal, you'd try to take the corresponding HTML tag, right?" => or an HTML attribute, but sure, doesn't change the argument 19:35:02 well yes, I was generalizing 19:35:20 or, well, being imprecise as it was only an example 19:37:34 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:52:50 I found a document it describes a few more kinds of time controls for chess and other games. One way is to have a main clock and a reserve clock. While your main clock is nonzero it counts down, and each turn you get an increment to add to your reserve clock. When your main clock is zero, then your reserve clock is used with no increments. 19:56:59 Another kind is to have a swing clock and reserve clock, each with initial nonzero values. Your swing clock is used while nonzero, and your opponent's swing clock increases during this time; if your swing clock is zero, your reserve clock is used and your opponent's clock doesn't increase. Your swing clock will be re-enabled once it is nonzero again. 19:59:00 zzo38: those two modes of timing are strang4e 19:59:33 wob_jonas: the word you are looking for is zooic 19:59:40 *zzoic 20:00:10 no, not really 20:00:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:00:56 But I also thought of another variant which I have not seen in other documents, which is where the hourglass factor is not necessarily 0 or 1, but can be any number (although it should probably range from -0.5 to +1.0) 20:05:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:06:26 I have seen other variants too and have also thought of various other variants of time controls. 20:07:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:25:50 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:32:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:55:54 -!- boily has joined. 21:00:06 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:05:31 `wisdom 21:05:33 auto//Auto is the German word for car. 21:06:47 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 21:07:17 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:08:02 What's an automorphism? 21:08:06 `dowt auto 21:08:06 it kinda is 21:08:08 7110:2016-03-06 learn Auto is the German word for car. 21:08:37 automobil is almost always abbreviated auto in german 21:09:02 `` howg | grep 'rm -r' 21:09:05 ` rm -r wisdom/is \ ` rm -r wisdom/d \ rm -rf wisdom/e 21:09:19 `` hoag | grep 'rm -r' 21:09:22 ` rm -rf canary; mk \'canary//cat: canary: No such file or directory\' \ ` rm -rfv powershell* \ ` rm -r s/ \ ` rm -r bin/SAVEDAT \ ` rm -r bin/bin \ ` rm -rf bin/lmg \ ` rm -rf lmg \ rm -r perl* # if at first you don\'t succeed... \ 21:09:39 dafuq is happening 21:09:57 * Zarutian mutters something about sjálfsrennireið 21:10:13 ah, that 21:11:23 `1 hoat | grep 'rm -r' 21:11:26 1/5: run rm -r maketext \ paste ' rm -rf /; ' \ run rm -rf p7zip_9.20.1 \ rm -r run \ rm -r gktemp \ rm -r luabuild \ rm -r canary; echo chirp >canary # restore it back \ rm -r git-master \ rm -r a/d \ myname: is an literal translation of auto-mobile into Icelandic. But most just use bíll which is dervived from the danish word bil, which is a sort for automobilen. 21:11:47 Zarutellon. "self slipping riding" ??? 21:12:23 boily: like you slip on skates or skis 21:13:11 so slide would be closer 21:13:17 . o O ( Kraftfahrzeug (yeah, it's more generic, but nicely bureaucratic) ) 21:14:35 en:car → fr_CA:char. 21:15:00 californian french? 21:16:36 cantonian french? 21:16:37 zzo38: I've played under time controls where normally both clocks are stopped; you can start an opponent's clock during their move and if you do, the time they have for the move depends on how much time they had left on the clock on the previous move and how long they've been thinking for this move 21:16:43 I don't quite know what the formula is 21:16:58 but it's good for casual games where most players play quickly, but sometimes you encounter someone who stalls intentionally 21:17:20 hellochaf. French as spoken by Chinese immigrants in SoCal. 21:17:47 actually a swing clock is a pretty interesting idea 21:18:03 especially if the opponent's time increases only by a proportion of the time you spend, rather than the full amount 21:18:25 ais523: That is what I suggested with the "hourglass factor" 21:18:42 yes, I thought it might be, but didn't have enough context to be sure 21:18:50 I don't think you'd want a reserve clock under those rules 21:19:30 The reserve clock can be zero if you want to, which is like having no reserve clock 21:20:31 can someone explain to me why chess feels so mechanistic? 21:20:38 `? chess 21:20:39 Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. 21:21:07 Zarutian: good chess is rote memorization. bette chess is more memorization. 21:21:13 s/te\b/ter/ 21:21:24 s/oter/ote/ 21:22:01 I have once had the time controls where I have: chess clock, grace time, shot clock, master clock, offer clock, special shot clock, increment time, byoyomi, and a lot of other stuff too 21:22:10 what, all in the same game? 21:22:28 boily: that explains it. I have always found parrot learning (which rote memorization is) boering as hell 21:22:31 Not necessarily, but a program could support them all at once if needed 21:23:36 Offer clock could be applied for example with offer to double in backgammon or a draw offer in chess, and maybe others too. I don't know what games might use a special shot clock though, but maybe you know 21:24:30 also the normal rule in chess is that you can only make a draw offer between making a move, and pressing the clock button 21:24:41 so in a way, the offer clock is combined with the regular clock 21:25:14 (most people don't care much about the rules on the timing of offering draws, and so they're rarely enforced, they're only really useful if someone is making draw offers abusively) 21:25:59 I meant how much time the opponent has to respond to the offer 21:26:43 oh, I see 21:26:49 they get to respond until they've played their next move 21:27:07 O, OK 21:27:09 there's at least one incident in which a player offered a draw after moving, their opponent thought about the move for a while 21:27:24 and eventually resigned (presumably they forgot they could legally have taken the draw) 21:31:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONTINGENCY CHICKEN). 21:34:01 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:38:08 do people play chess with an offer clock? I thought they play with a draw offer timing tied to moves instead of real time 21:38:28 but sure, it is rarely a problem 21:42:12 Another consideration is in Magic: the Gathering where a player might be required to make a choice even though he does not have priority (for example, during the resolution of a spell or if a spell or ability requires an opponent to choose a target or mode). If you are not implementing Magic: the Gathering on computer though then you could ignore these timing which are too difficult to implement anyways without explicit priority passes. 21:44:12 zzo38: luckily in duels, you can speed stuff up by allowing you to not wait for other people making choices, except before you would learn new information that was hidden from you. 21:45:00 zzo38: Would it be better if people passed priority explicitly? 21:45:37 shachaf: On computer it probably is, anyways. 21:46:14 zzo38: no, I don't think it's required even on the computer. sure, sometimes you want to pass priority or wait for an opponent's decision for strategy reason to avoid revealing info to your opponent 21:46:34 Since the computer could also easily implement shortcuts in a way that your opponent doesn't even know what shortcuts you are proposing at first 21:46:46 but most of the time you don't bother with that, and just play until just before you'd learn new hidden information, and if the opponent wants to interrupt earlier, you rewind the game 21:46:59 zzo38: Do you like interrupts and instants? 21:47:00 -!- LKoen has joined. 21:47:21 the computer can implement rewinding the game easily 21:47:55 shachaf: Yes, although there are no interrupts anymore (due to the way the timing rules work differently, interrupts are no longer meaningful) 21:48:10 I mean: Do you like the distinction between them? 21:48:41 Only before fifth edition; I think there is no point for the distinction between them anymore 21:48:41 Do you like mana abilities? 21:48:48 Yes, mana abilities 21:49:06 I used to think that the way you cast a spell is to put all the required mana in your mana pool before you cast it. 21:49:37 shachaf: which part of mana abilities? the part where they don't use the stack, or the part where you can activate them any time you have to pay mana as part of a cost? 21:49:38 That would have been a pretty sensible system. 21:49:50