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01:30:48 <shachaf> Cale: As the first player, with Thorium Dynamo: DD-D1-DD, or DD-D1-1?
01:34:28 <zzo38> Do you understand how this program is working? http://git.imagemagick.org/repos/ImageMagick/blob/master/MagickCore/fx.c#L3708 Is there an explanation anywhere?
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01:54:56 <fizzie> (It's a famous song, I can't not see the substring "plasma" and not think of it.)
02:01:27 <boily> fizziello. it doesn't appear to be on youtube.
02:03:18 <fizzie> Okay, so it's not *that* famous.
02:03:40 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCLZ7P0Kw0U
02:04:06 <fizzie> It's from the byterapers collection of Finnish demoscene music, http://www.byterapers.scene.org/scene-music.htm
02:04:17 <zzo38> Is there a direct link to that file?
02:04:45 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1nMhWc1Kok
02:05:04 <fizzie> That would be ftp://ftp.byterapers.com/pub/extra/modules-humorouscollection/sin-leimeri.xm but it's not really relevant to your original question, and also the singing, it's in Finnish.
02:05:19 <fizzie> Actually, those links seem to have rotted away. :/
02:05:44 <fizzie> I have my mirror at https://zem.fi/tmp/byterapers-modules-humorouscollection/sin-leimeri.xm anyway.
02:05:44 <zzo38> Ah, OK. I am not so good at Finnish anyways. I am not Finished.
02:08:55 <fizzie> The lyrics go approximately: "[expletive] I'm not a lamer / I can make a plasma effect / [expletive] I'm not a lamer / I'm just like Jmagic". (That would be Jmagic of Complex.)
02:10:49 <tswett_> `quote non-Microsoft-specific
02:10:58 <HackEgo> 115) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
02:11:25 <Sgeo> That quote may be old
02:11:45 <tswett_> I'm implementing my database query language in C#. I'm doing all the development under Linux, with only FOSS tools.
02:11:57 <tswett_> Honestly, I'd much rather be using Visual Studio!
02:12:36 <zzo38> If you have Visual Studio, use it then, but then don't use Microsoft-specific stuff, and then it will work on Linux too and other people can also to do the development under Linux with only FOSS tools.
02:12:48 <\oren\> my favorite database is the good old directory full of csv files
02:13:05 <tswett_> Yeah... I don't think I have any actual reason not to use Visual Studio.
02:14:07 <Sgeo> Clearly you should use Tcl. Because something recently reminded me of Tcl despite its terribleness for anything practical and/or security sensitive
02:19:40 <tswett_> Now, I've thought a lot about doing mathematics without any ambient theory.
02:21:41 <tswett_> Nothing but sequences of symbols, and rules that you come up with.
02:22:17 <zzo38> Is that like typographical mathematics?
02:22:32 <tswett_> Want to talk about the integers? Haha, there's no such thing as "the integers". You need to come up with a sequence of symbols that you feel *represents* the integers, and then you can study those symbols.
02:22:45 <zzo38> ("Typographical" in the way that was meant in Godel Escher Bach)
02:23:17 <tswett_> zzo38: yeah, a lot like that.
02:23:18 <boily> one chicken, two chickens, three chickens...
02:23:43 <tswett_> What I've found is that it seems to be a pretty miserable experience.
02:24:19 <Cale> shachaf: How many Dynamos do you want? How aggressive is the set? The only real downside to Thorium is that it cripples your ability to rush and defend against really early rushes somewhat.
02:24:31 <Cale> shachaf: Otherwise, I'd say just get as many as you can fit.
02:24:48 <shachaf> Well, it squanders one energy to build the dynamo at that point.
02:25:09 <shachaf> Is it worth it in the case that there's no immediate attack coming?
02:25:30 <Cale> That's fair, though I would suspect you make the value back in most cases, just because Thorium is a better unit than drone.
02:26:16 <shachaf> Depends on things like how much green you need and whether you expect to get breached, I guess.
02:26:22 <shachaf> Though with the dynamo green is always good.
02:27:15 <tswett_> So now I want to find a really conservative mathematical framework to work inside of.
02:27:58 <tswett_> ZFC? Puh-lease! You can't even convince me that that's consistent.
02:28:18 <tswett_> (Or maybe you can, I dunno.)
02:29:00 <tswett_> If you can define the Ackermann function in it, it's too strong for me.
02:38:48 <boily> boom. killed Antaeus.
02:41:52 <Cale> Yeah, the green can always be converted to gold at some point, but unless you have just the right amount of green production, it might be locked away for a turn or so. It's still very efficient in the long run, and even if you're defending, it's always handy to be able to make a forcefield here and there.
02:42:33 <shachaf> Of course if you're heavy on the dynamos you might not be able to make many forcefields.
02:42:42 <Sgeo> I assume this is Prismata discussion but I don't recognize dynamos
02:42:58 <Sgeo> Wake me up to prismata when there's a good single-player runthrough to make me not terrible
02:43:09 <Cale> http://cale.hn.org/reflex/PrismataUnits/PrismataUnits.jsexe/
02:45:20 <Cale> tswett_: Not accepting the Ackermann function is pretty extreme :)
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02:59:41 <tswett_> Cale: nah, that's not extreme.
03:00:00 <tswett_> Extreme would be only admitting functions that are constant except on finitely many inputs.
03:01:17 <tswett_> f(x) = 2x? Nope, infinite image.
03:02:53 <tswett_> f(x) = 15? Yep, that's permitted.
03:03:21 <hppavilion[1]> tswett_: This reminds me of something I think about every once in a while: Finite-domain functions. Is there some branch of math dedicated to them?
03:04:10 <tswett_> hppavilion[1]: hmm, dunno.
03:04:27 <hppavilion[1]> In general playing with domain and codomain is interesting
03:05:54 <tswett_> So, we all know what a primitive-recursive function is.
03:06:03 <tswett_> It's a function defined by such-and-such blah blah blah rules.
03:06:43 <hppavilion[1]> ¦ is an operation f ¦ S (function f, set S) which yields a function f'
03:07:22 <tswett_> I wonder if there's some "well-known" concept of a "primitive-recursive proof of equality of two primitive-recursive functions".
03:07:45 <hppavilion[1]> f' is defined for all values which are in dom(f) ∩ S as the same as f; f' is undefined for any values not in dom(f) ∩ S
03:08:06 <shachaf> Why restrict it to finite domains?
03:08:15 <shachaf> https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/X11re8mVHBR
03:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That one isn't restricted to finite domains
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03:17:06 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNEEEEEEEEEEEER! :D :D :D
03:17:33 <boily> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
03:24:20 <boily> playing crawl. won. fifteen.
03:24:29 * boily 's brains are on the fritz
03:28:32 <boily> morgue now online → http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/pfcuttle/morgue-pfcuttle-20161220-031651.txt
03:36:18 <zzo38> I found that the source code for ImageMagick does actually include a coder for sixel graphics, although it seem not compiled in, and is not listed on the webpage or on the "convert -list format". Sixel format is also one of the format I intend to support in Farbfeld Utilities. You can also contribute formats and/or effects if you want to do so.
03:36:39 <zzo38> (either suggestions or codes (or both) can be contributed, according to your choice)
03:36:53 <zzo38> (you may also contribute examples/documentation if you want to)
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04:23:48 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn currying//Functions are curried by taking curry(f)
04:23:56 <HackEgo> Learned 'currying': Functions are curried by taking curry(f)
04:24:01 <hppavilion[1]> (the joke would work better if it required multiple arguments...)
04:24:50 <HackEgo> currying//Functions are curried by taking curry(f).
04:30:37 <Jafet> (15? that's too many runes!)
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04:47:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Smurf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50544&oldid=36127 * Challenger5 * (+136)
04:47:27 <HackEgo> [U+035C COMBINING DOUBLE BREVE BELOW]
05:00:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Sclipting]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50545&oldid=44707 * Challenger5 * (+371)
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05:10:23 <izabera> how long does it take to learn how to solder?
05:10:53 <izabera> there's a company that's hiring and on that page they mention that people must "Be OK wielding the occasional soldering iron."
05:11:06 <izabera> among a bunch of other stuff
05:11:22 <pikhq_> Get a soldering iron, a PCB you don't mind fucking up, and an afternoon.
05:12:07 <pikhq_> You won't be doing SMD stuff after that, but you'll be alright after a couple hours practicing.
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05:49:40 <zzo38> I made a plasma drawing program that work similar to the one in ImageMagick, although my program is much shorter and also a bit more versatile.
05:50:31 <zzo38> (The part of the program of ImageMagick to implement such thing is approx 4 times bigger than mine, to my estimation.)
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08:19:48 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bImJMH9FXPA
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09:46:00 <oerjan> the spammers seem not to have noticed.
09:49:38 <fizzie> I think I get most of my non-English spam in Swedish.
09:50:16 <oerjan> i think i got a norwegian one as well
09:50:51 <oerjan> (i'm not entirely sure it wasn't english)
09:50:51 <fizzie> "Hej! Vi söker personal för distansarbete."
09:51:20 <oerjan> does the work involve sending email to people
09:52:04 <fizzie> They don't actually say. They just say it's for "ett stort, internationellt företag", and that it pays 3000-6000 EUR/month, but not at all what the company does or I would do.
09:52:48 <oerjan> it's ok i'm sure they'll tell you for a small fee
09:54:39 <izabera> you'll have to write spambots
09:54:57 <fizzie> The message body is always the same, except that the name of the sender is random (I've got "Harriett", "Crystal", "Meghan", "Avis" and "Archie") and the subject line alternates between "deltidstjänst", "Samarbete med stor firma" and "Det underbara arbetet i kris!".
09:55:08 <fizzie> (Those names sound a little non-Swedish.)
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09:55:48 <oerjan> maybe. i could imagine a swede named Crystal.
10:08:07 <lambdabot> PAMR 200953Z 00000KT 1/4SM FZFG VV003 M08/M09 A2898 RMK AO2 SLP815 I1000 T10781094 $
10:08:15 <lambdabot> ENVA 200950Z 11008KT CAVOK 01/00 Q1015 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15012KT
10:08:39 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: _two_ slashes? what is this heresy
10:10:43 * oerjan hands hppavilion[1] some glasses
10:11:17 <hppavilion[1]> I had a migraine earlier today; maybe it's coming back
10:11:31 <lambdabot> EGLL 200950Z 11008KT CAVOK 05/03 Q1022
10:11:34 <hppavilion[1]> I saw that, but I figured you meant either consecutive or grouped slashes
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10:51:53 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> hilsner <-- did you know that's a common misspelling of the norwegian word for "greetings" hth
11:22:43 <lambdabot> LOWI 201050Z 26013KT 220V280 9999 FEW080 04/M05 Q1023 WS R26 NOSIG
11:23:13 <int-e> well, 50%, apparently
11:34:26 <izabera> how do i bypass mod_security?
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11:37:37 <izabera> several sites are rejecting my bot that posts the title of a page and posts it on irc
11:37:47 <izabera> with user agent Mozilla/4.0
11:56:49 <int-e> hmm. in an apache configuration context, "SecRuleEngine Off"?
12:05:06 <int-e> izabera: anyway, perhaps the user-agent isn't real enough. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/50.0
12:05:20 <int-e> they usually come with a ton of additional information
12:05:38 <int-e> other ideas include cookies; I imagine one could even look at the Accept-* headers.
12:06:43 <izabera> int-e: i tried exactly that a few minutes ago
12:07:02 <int-e> maybe your IP got flagged
12:07:25 <int-e> I actually have no clue what mod_security really does.
12:11:27 <fizzie> Have you considered not posting titles of pages?
12:12:22 <izabera> have you considered minding your own business?
12:12:39 <FireFly> I don't mind posting titles, but I don't think I'd go out of my way to try to circumvent things like that honestly
12:12:46 <FireFly> well, maybe spoofing user-agent since that is common enough
12:12:53 <izabera> it's not posting them in this channel
12:13:48 <fizzie> It was what's called an opinion.
12:16:11 <fizzie> That's the beauty of IRC, you don't even have to ask.
12:16:25 <fizzie> How about capturing a request from a real browser and replaying it as-is?
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12:33:26 <izabera> curl -A "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/50.0" -H "Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8"
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15:42:17 <HackEgo> fternoon//Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners.
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17:55:24 <\oren\> Ugh, another blody test failure
18:04:22 <boily> he\\oren\. what fails?
18:09:27 <\oren\> the continuous testing failed and my commit was reverted
18:10:42 <\oren\> now I have to figure out what went wrong, fix it, run the pre-checkin tests for 4 hours, and then commit and hope that during that 4 hours noone comitted anything that conflicts
18:11:41 <boily> that's fscking stupid.
18:12:18 <\oren\> and most of that is compiling
18:12:58 <\oren\> which for some reason is always compiling the same code over and over because of templates
18:13:12 <\oren\> stupid c++ templates. not even once.
18:13:58 <Zarutian> reminds me of an univeristy shared shell host policy "No long running processes! They will be killed and the infraction noted". So many CompSci students in tears because their compilations were killed.
18:15:07 <\oren\> wait wouldn't an interactive bash shell or editor be long-running?
18:15:07 <\oren\> or does it only count cpu time
18:16:25 <\oren\> c++ templates really invalidate the whole separate compilation idea
18:17:00 <\oren\> it would be faster to concatenate all the files in the whole project and comoile that
18:17:08 <Zarutian> cpu time was first measure (to factilate load shedding and keep the host responsive) then if a process had been resident for more than four hours in memory it got more agressively swapped out.
18:17:34 <Zarutian> \oren\: that is what c++ templates compilation DOES, iirc
18:18:50 <\oren\> well we don't... we have thousands of .o files containing identical instantiations of templates and then we link them and somehow the linker knows to throw away all but one. or maybe it doesn't. i dunno
18:20:34 <\oren\> in other words we're using separate compilation, but compiling everything all in one go would almost certainly be faster.
18:20:50 <\oren\> because of all the wasted work
18:27:09 <Zarutian> re that university policy: the fun thing was that anyone could invoke hogkick command that looked at the longest running or most consumptive process, if went over a certain precentage killed that and kicked the user that instanciated it off the system with a stern message on not hogging shell host resources.
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18:44:21 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.
18:44:32 <HackEgo> C Pound is Java's good twin.
18:45:29 <HackEgo> Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication.
18:47:54 <HackEgo> U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN \ UTF-8: c2 b0 UTF-16BE: 00b0 Decimal: ° \ ° \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ET (European Number Terminator) \ \ U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE \ UTF-8: e2 80 8b UTF-16BE: 200b Decimal: ​ \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
18:48:20 <HackEgo> U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE \ UTF-8: e2 80 8b UTF-16BE: 200b Decimal: ​ \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
18:48:43 * \oren\ grumbles about it not looking zero width to him.
18:55:32 <\oren\> `c printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");
18:55:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: c: not found
18:55:43 <\oren\> `cc printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");
18:55:49 <HackEgo> <stdin>:1:1: error: missing terminating " character \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
18:56:07 <\oren\> `cc 'printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");'
18:56:10 <HackEgo> <stdin>:1:1: error: missing terminating ' character \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
18:56:47 <\oren\> `` cc printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");
18:56:50 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `cc printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");'
18:57:25 <\oren\> `` echo -e '\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40'
18:59:11 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/0ObAYc.jpg
19:00:26 <ybden> Ew. An image sharing website which requires JS to view images
19:14:51 <\oren\> oh apparently iterm2 dispalys it properly
19:15:44 <zzo38> The image sharing service should not even require HTML; just JPEG or PNG
19:16:38 <\oren\> https://i.snag.gy/0ObAYc.jpg
19:18:20 <zzo38> OK, that works fine ImageMagick will display it
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19:57:46 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2IbobdwL3w
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20:54:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50546&oldid=49042 * Challenger5 * (+457)
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21:27:39 <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 35m 46s ago: <shachaf> hilsner <-- did you know that's a common misspelling of the norwegian word for "greetings" hth
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22:34:56 <hppavilion[1]> Is it possible to express all positive algebraic as a unique product of primes, each raised to a rational power?
22:39:19 <izabera> can you do it with sqrt(2)+sqrt(3)?
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23:07:02 <\oren\> hmm... what if you ranked all algebraic numbers by how simple it is to express them in reverse polish notation with the symbols 1-+*/^
23:09:31 <izabera> isn't that polish and not reverse polish?
23:10:02 <\oren\> i think polish notation is where you treat everyhting as a function
23:10:15 <rdococ> if 0 was just '' I think we'd run into the same problems polish/reverse polish were trying to fix...
23:10:50 <FireFly> polish is prefix and reverse polish is postfix, yeah
23:11:04 <\oren\> 4:'11+11++' 6:'111++11+*'
23:11:22 <izabera> pick a name for this thing
23:11:25 <FireFly> <\oren\> or perhaps just '1-' ← the befunge approach, I like it
23:11:59 <FireFly> I love abusing the zero-on-stack-underflow behaviour in codegolf
23:12:20 <\oren\> I'll call it "unary rpn numerals"
23:13:59 <\oren\> and basically, a number's unary rpn rank is the number of symbols in the minimum string that places that nubmer on top of the stack
23:17:37 <izabera> `` echo 'sed "s/./& /g;s/.*/20k&p/" <<< "$*" | dc' > bin/unaryrpn; chmod +x bin/unaryrpm; unaryrpm 111+/
23:17:43 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `bin/unaryrpm': No such file or directory \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: unaryrpm: command not found
23:17:58 <izabera> `` echo 'sed "s/./& /g;s/.*/20k&p/" <<< "$*" | dc' > bin/unaryrpn; chmod +x bin/unaryrpn; unaryrpn 111+/
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23:21:44 <rdococ> ooh you implemented it
23:21:59 <rdococ> so what will 111-/ equal in your specification?
23:23:23 <FireFly> what befunge-98 impls do we have?
23:23:26 <\oren\> oh i guess in this implementation 11- is needed for 0
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23:23:35 <izabera> `` echo 'sed "s/./ &/g;s/.*/20k0&p/" <<< "$*" | dc' > bin/unaryrpn; unaryrpn 1-
23:24:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cfunge: not found
23:24:26 <HackEgo> ibin/befunge \ ibin/befunge98 \ interps/cfunge/build/cfunge \ interps/cfunge/build/CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/lib/libghthash/cfunge_mempool.c.o \ interps/cfunge/build/CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/funge-space/funge-space.c.o \ interps/cfunge/cfunge \ interps/cfunge/cfunge-src/cmake/modules/CfungeCheckCflag.cmake \ interps/cfunge/cfunge-src/cmake/modules/Cfu
23:25:09 <HackEgo> 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
23:25:47 <FireFly> oh right, only integers though
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23:38:53 <zzo38> Inspiration of what?
23:39:20 <rdococ> help me import inspiration;
23:44:51 <rdococ> imagine a fuzzy 50% value - and two variables, x and y, which have this value... now, x & !x should be intuitively 0, but x & y isn't necessarily 0
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23:46:09 <rdococ> heya hppa... long time no see... I am exhausted
23:48:01 <rdococ> I just brought up the topic of fuzzy logic...
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