00:03:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:05:21 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:05:53 Oh, hi rdococ! 00:05:57 Didn't see you here 00:06:33 * hppavilion[1] adds "hppa" to dingables 00:07:43 <\oren\> hppa gangnam style 00:08:12 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:08:14 \oren\: I no longer love you 00:08:22 Ich liebe \oren\ nicht 00:08:29 * hppavilion[1] just had his German final 00:23:06 okay, here's a thought experiment 00:23:28 imagine a fuzzy logic system, in which two variables, x and y, are both at 50%. 00:23:52 now, x & !x should be 0%, right? even if the quantum probability did collapse, it can only be one or the other, not both. 00:24:15 but since x and y aren't related, their combined probability is 25%. 00:24:45 ...hppa? any thoughts? 00:27:03 rdococ: ...I don't think this is quantum, this is just normal probability 00:27:26 ...yeah you're probably right. 00:27:43 rdococ: Look up "probability amplitude" for funly quantumerific stuff 00:27:51 rdococ: And fuzzy logic isn't necessarily probabilistic, it's just based on degree-of-trueness 00:29:01 that's... also true. 00:29:09 but the idea still stands 00:29:23 is funly a word? 00:30:03 idk 00:31:10 izabera: Depends on who gets to decide 00:44:35 unfortunately, wikipedia is the worst thing ever for learning (I had to find a demonstration website for quaternions... then I finally got them) 00:52:08 rdococ: I wouldn't say it's the worst thing ever for learning 00:52:12 Censorship is probably worse 00:54:46 -!- tswett_ has joined. 00:58:34 * boily lightly mapoles hppavilion[1] because I haven't mapoled anybody in a while 00:58:51 * hppavilion[1] lightly dodges 01:02:32 so, anyone here affected by DropBox decision? 01:03:37 Zarutian: What decision? 01:03:45 Do I need to delete my account (which has nothing really in it)? 01:04:07 hppavilion[1]: the decision to drop the ball on their Public Folders 01:04:51 Ah 01:05:10 breaking links on the web left and right 01:07:12 Zarutian: Did they do it without warning? 01:07:35 `olist 1061 01:07:40 thinking about adding rewriting feature in BBforum software so that any directly linked image hosted by a DropBox Public Folder 01:07:48 olist 1061: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 01:07:51 Aaand DNS somehow isn't working. 01:08:01 This seems to tend to happen when I'm using certain public wiffies. 01:08:30 hppavilion[1]: well people have to until end of March in 2017 but who is really going to go and notify all forums and people they have shared public folder links with? 01:08:47 breaking news: dropbox reaffirms that it is not a web hosting provider 01:09:27 Jafet: breaking news, dropbox performs an bait and switch manouver over decades timescale 01:12:16 that's quite impressive, given that they have been around for under a decade 01:13:37 tswett_: clearly you should use Public DNS with public wifi 01:18:09 hellochaf. thachaf. 01:18:43 -!- tswett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:20:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fGwanAJk8c 01:20:53 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 01:30:32 Jafet: "over decades timescale" is just my indication of the size of the timescale 'unit' in this context, nothing more. 01:48:15 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:54:00 -!- augur has joined. 01:58:42 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 01:59:15 moo 01:59:35 mhelloo. 02:02:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PIXEL CHICKEN). 02:06:39 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:37:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:12 -!- heroux has joined. 02:44:22 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:50:29 <\oren\> I am stuffed 02:51:31 <\oren\> I ate a giant platter of wienerschnitzel, bread and fried sausages 02:51:56 <\oren\> I need to lie down and digest this meal 03:01:46 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:03:30 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:14:17 -!- rdococ has joined. 03:40:50 I have some difficulty to understand any colour quantization algorithms, a bit 03:41:33 And, I would hope that my program it can support generating a palette even if some entries are fixed, and later to also add support for HAM and EHB modes. 04:18:50 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 04:22:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:35:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Thoga31 * New user account 04:44:23 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 04:47:41 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:48:19 -!- _rdococ has joined. 04:50:30 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:59:20 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 04:59:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:03:37 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:04:17 -!- _rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:05:14 -!- rdococ has joined. 05:05:24 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50547&oldid=50522 * Thoga31 * (+265) /* Introductions */ 05:05:36 [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50548 * Thoga31 * (+1260) Created page with "'''Morsefuck''' is an esoteric language completely based on Brainfuck. It is inspired by the obfuscation created by this language, but taking it even further. It was created o..." 05:06:34 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50549&oldid=50333 * Thoga31 * (+16) /* Brainfuck derivatives */ 05:10:29 -!- thoga31 has joined. 05:16:06 I approve of this- wait, no 05:16:42 ...I've been too subtle. I'm taking a more extreme approach. 05:17:14 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 05:18:03 [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50550&oldid=50548 * Hppavilion1 * (+105) It's dark times we're living in. Dark times indeed. 05:18:10 *sigh* 05:18:14 rdococ_: hellu 05:19:25 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:19:40 \oren\: Shall I initialize the Brainfuck Ghetto? 05:20:50 thoga31: Oh, didn't notice you joined the channel. 05:21:19 hello :) 05:21:35 thoga31: I'm hppavilion[0], current chief of bf derivative control 05:21:49 Wait, I'm not hppavilion[0] 05:21:49 No problem, I already seen the page. I'm sorry, in fact I dind't read it. 05:21:51 One moment 05:21:54 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 05:21:55 Ah 05:22:12 I've been considering with other members of this channel creating a dedicated page for minor derivations 05:22:33 Because there are *so* many derivatives that, if you click "Random Page", you statistically wind up in a derivative about half the time 05:22:47 I don't wnat to cause any "trouble"; so to speak :) 05:22:49 [not actually statistical. Just pidooma] 05:22:54 Good. 05:23:05 Should I delete the page? 05:23:11 I'm not sure you can 05:23:51 [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50551&oldid=50550 * Thoga31 * (-1365) Blanked the page 05:23:58 [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50552&oldid=50551 * Thoga31 * (+1365) 05:24:06 No I can't :) 05:25:27 I just created this for fun, in fact. A friend of mine challanged me to implement a brainfuck interpreter in Free Pascal and Python, and on the way I "created" this 05:26:47 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:27:08 thoga31: Does it support []s properly? 05:27:27 yes, it does 05:27:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:28:50 hppavilion[1]: My interpreter runs the Towers of Hanoi program by Clifford Wolf (though a bit slow). It uses LOTS of []s 05:28:58 OK, good. 05:42:10 -!- thoga31 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:55:34 [wiki] [[Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50553 * Hppavilion1 * (+4418) The Final Solution 05:57:17 May God have mercy on my soul. 06:03:02 Eh, fair 'nough. I've literally written Brainfuck interpreters out of sheer boredom before... 06:03:22 What about derivatives? 06:03:42 Don't really touch the stuff. 06:24:32 Another thing to write if you intend to write computer program but do not know what to write is you try to contribute to stuff such as my Farbfeld Utilities and so on. 06:32:49 It is a possibility, although there is also many other possibility, such as to make an experiment 06:52:44 -!- rdococ has joined. 06:54:49 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vco2UhQMX8 06:54:54 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:55:11 <\oren\> I can't delete pages either 06:56:37 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:27:34 you could create a mediawiki template to generate articles for brainfuck derivatives 07:29:45 ...and, after that, a template for trivial stack languages 08:01:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:16:05 -!- mtve- has quit (*.net *.split). 08:16:06 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 08:23:49 -!- rodgort has joined. 08:30:39 -!- augur has joined. 08:32:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH HPPAVILION[1] LA'SKA WGAH'NAGL FHTAGN). 08:32:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 08:50:48 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 08:56:35 "This esoteric programming language has been encoded in the MediaWiki templates within this wiki. To use it, simply create a page in the following sandbox..." 09:16:37 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:17:28 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:18:16 oh! olist pinged me 09:28:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:29:10 -!- augur has joined. 09:34:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:37:52 -!- augur has joined. 09:53:32 [wiki] [[User:Malbranche]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50554&oldid=49699 * Malbranche * (+1) 09:56:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:58:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:03:41 -!- Yurume|q has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 10:04:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:04:57 -!- Yurume|q has joined. 10:05:10 -!- augur has joined. 10:05:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:23 -!- mtve has joined. 10:18:55 C++: the real brain fuck 10:32:06 apparently, something called std::rel_ops has been in the standard for two decades, but does not work properly because of how the language's scoping rules are defined 10:34:02 but, unlike template export, it hasn't been removed 10:44:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:04:50 what? std::rel_ops doesn't work? 11:10:12 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 11:13:59 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:25:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:31:35 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 11:55:24 -!- _rdococ has joined. 11:55:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:58:25 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:06:23 https://underhanded.rs/blog/2016/12/15/underhanded-rust.en-US.html " 12:06:25 The Rust Community Team is pleased to announce the first annual Underhanded Rust Contest, inspired by the Underhanded C and Underhanded Crypto contests. " 12:18:14 b_jonas: it doesn't work indirectly, for example std::greater won't look up rel_ops::operator> 12:19:55 Jafet: I beleive the supposed way to use rel_ops is that you put a class into a separate namespace, define operator< and operator== for that class as nm functions in that namespace, and using the other operators from rel_ops into that namespace. 12:20:16 Then when code tries to compare objects of that class, it will find it through ADL lookup. 12:20:32 That applies even to greater, because greater will find the operators with ADL lookup too. 12:21:04 But in practice the whole thing isn't too useful, because in most code you just call < and == operators anyway, the other operators aren't necessary. 12:29:04 Your search - site:rust-lang.org ADL - did not match any documents. 12:31:43 -!- benderB747 has joined. 12:32:26 -!- benderB747 has quit (Client Quit). 12:34:10 hmm, I can't even get g++ to look up rel_ops::operator> automatically 12:35:46 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 12:36:32 wait, the contest is for a buggy payment processor? if this was a mainstream language, people would just submit their actual systems 12:39:23 -!- _rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:43:28 -!- Guest54317 has changed nick to Gregor. 12:43:34 `ls 12:43:45 bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64 \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 12:44:01 fizzie: It only took me months, but I did click two buttons ;) 12:44:09 Should have the changes merged in. 12:48:47 there was something about reverse lookups too? hmm. something about emails from the wiki. 12:49:20 of course right now that point seems rather moot: Host 242.166.248.162.in-addr.arpa not found: 2(SERVFAIL) 12:50:02 HackEgo: node, seriously? 13:00:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 13:00:49 Gregor: For the future, would you mind if I add my fork as another URL and pull the commits from there, or do you want them to go through your review? 13:01:56 fizzie: Do you have root access on that machine? Why not just use your own fork. 13:02:06 I guess that's what you just asked X-D 13:02:08 Yeah, do that. 13:02:12 Don't trust me, I'm a lazy shit. 13:02:33 just give fizzie the CaC credentials :P 13:03:20 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 13:03:51 (I don't even know whether that's possible on the level of a single VM, hmm) 13:11:07 -!- _rdococ has joined. 13:14:56 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:20:52 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 13:23:50 -!- _rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:26:17 -!- rdococ has joined. 13:27:30 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:37:55 [wiki] [[Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50555&oldid=50553 * Enoua5 * (+1) Fixed broken tag 13:41:23 whoa 13:41:37 hi, Gregor! 13:42:49 @time Gregor 13:42:49 Local time for Gregor is Wed Dec 21 08:42:49 13:43:18 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:44:40 (I don't even know whether that's possible on the level of a single VM, hmm) 13:44:54 Maybe through the API? 13:45:18 Naw, looks like it's all per-account. 13:53:08 pity. 14:10:53 -!- rdococ has joined. 14:22:16 Oh, I just used the wrong lanuage, ADL originates in C++. 14:23:16 Perhaps ironically, "Koenig lookup" would have helped me more. 14:32:38 "originates"? does any language other than C++ even has it? 14:33:30 I don't know all programming languages. I'd imagine that D uses it as well. 14:34:01 ugh... ok 14:40:37 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:52:20 -!- rdococ has joined. 15:06:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:10:14 -!- boily has joined. 15:16:10 -!- nycs has joined. 15:16:39 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:32:01 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 15:32:50 -!- puckipedia has joined. 15:39:56 -!- augur has joined. 15:42:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:44:54 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 15:45:33 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:45:41 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:52:59 `wisdom 15:53:11 wisdoom//Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise. 15:59:17 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:59:37 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:00:51 -!- Akaibu has joined. 16:02:40 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:05 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:07:29 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:11:54 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:35:13 -!- MDude has joined. 16:37:58 fuzzy logic is more than having a percentage... 16:38:10 take x and y to be fuzzy logic values, both 50% each 16:38:26 now, x & !x = 0%, while x & y = 25%... 16:47:16 rdhellococ. fuzzy "x & y" is akin to min(x, y), so if "x = 0.5", then "x & !x = 0.5". 16:53:37 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 16:55:57 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:08:57 <\oren\> I wonder if payment processing systems are still written in COBOL 17:11:32 <\oren\> there exists a gcc compiler of COBOL 17:12:32 <\oren\> but it's written in Lisp? ??? 17:16:46 are neural nets kind of like fuzzy logic with a non-linear thresholding func? 17:17:10 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:18:24 <\oren\> newsham: each neuron, maybe, but the capabilities of a network depend highly on how they are trained and their topology 17:19:03 -!- ^v has joined. 17:20:15 oh right, they're not programmed a priori (other than topology).. duh.. my bad 17:20:31 so what if you had a statically programmed fuzzy logic system with a non-linear trigger func? 17:20:40 would that be a lot diff than a standard fuzzy logic system? 17:25:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:30:59 he\\oren\. COBOL in LISP??? 17:32:10 newshellom. well, not much different. if you're chaining sigmoids (the canonical non-linear curve for perceptrons), you're approximating higher-degree polynomials. 17:32:52 instead of a single monotonic slope, you're freeing yourself to random curves. 17:35:10 fungot: are you linear? 17:35:10 boily: it promotes a specific type of software engineering.... hold on, a bit 17:35:16 fungot: holding on... 17:35:17 boily: ( or even " the current solution" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord? is especially ugly without infix". that phrase is 17:35:36 fungot: please balance your parentheses. ) 17:35:37 boily: now opening: fnord fnord. both are enormously fun. next time, or compile and install chicken eggs. even simple things like ' make i-know-what-i-am-doing' aren't supported yet.) 17:36:03 Fnord Fnord Fun for All! 17:36:41 bohelloc 17:36:58 I meant probability to be honest 17:37:01 not actual fuzzy logic 17:37:50 "x & !x = 0.5" makes sense, it's kinda like "is the glass less than half full AND less than half empty?" 17:38:08 as much as that makes sense... 17:38:39 I was talking about something more probabilistic - the chance of both x happening AND x not happening is 0% 17:39:08 that is the case. 17:39:59 this suggests to me that x is not equal to !x, even if both are 50% probable. 17:40:51 actually, you could have two variables who cannot both be true at once, so the result of their AND operation is 0%, but two other variables which are always true at once, and they have 50% together... 17:42:21 so probability value alone is not enough to determine the value of a probabilistic variable. 17:43:54 we could define them as expressions in terms of one or more pure probability variables 17:44:30 say a is a probabilistic number which could collapse into any real number between 0 and 1. 17:44:44 some variable x could be defined as the expression a < 0.5 17:45:01 then !x would mean a >= 0.5 17:45:36 !x is infinitesimally more probable than x, but x & !x is definitely impossible. 17:46:13 then an unrelated variable y might be equal to something like B < 0.5... and x&y is 25% probable. 17:59:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:07:28 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:20:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:23:29 Maybe can be do like quantum states can be written as entangled too 18:25:46 yay Gregor 18:26:05 whoa whoa whoa 18:26:15 `learn Testing is missing 18:26:38 Learned 'testing': Testing is missing 18:26:42 `revert 18:26:44 Done. 18:26:49 whee!! 18:26:55 `? testing 18:26:56 testing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:27:05 oh that should also test the other 18:27:44 `mk test//hi again 18:27:46 hi Gregor 18:27:48 test 18:27:51 `? testing 18:27:52 testing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:28:10 IT WORKS 18:28:30 `revert 18:28:31 Done. 18:28:45 `before 18:28:57 test//hi again 18:29:07 `cat test 18:29:08 cat: test: No such file or directory 18:29:20 STILL WORKS 18:29:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:30:46 hezzo38, hellørjan, helloochaf. 18:30:54 Gregor is alive?!??!!? 18:31:03 and accepting PRs! 18:31:08 dun dun dun ♪ 18:31:20 well he was alive 4 hours ago. it may be months until next time. 18:32:18 (bhelloily) 18:32:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:32:40 pooch requests 18:33:06 poochpoochpoochpooch ♪ 18:33:30 . o O ( avoiding words starting with p may be a bit too awkward ) 18:33:49 it's p. awkward 18:34:19 `ls 18:34:21 bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64 \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 18:34:36 `` rm wisdom.pdf 18:34:41 No output. 18:34:49 `` rm -r node* 18:34:56 No output. 18:35:14 i think that was an attempt to install node that failed because node has files larger than HackEgo's limit 18:35:39 (and i think this has happened before) 18:35:47 `lastfiles 18:35:51 node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz 18:36:19 `cat bin/lastfiles 18:36:20 hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@" 18:36:40 `ls 18:36:42 bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom 18:37:08 oh right, the directory probably never got any files because of the unpacking failing 19:00:22 No, I'm not alive, stop imagining I'm alive. 19:01:31 OKAY 19:02:04 Gregor: I was at a talk where someone mentioned a paper you were a coauthor of. 19:02:09 I guess that was a while ago by now. 19:03:37 `addquote No, I'm not alive, stop imagining I'm alive. 19:03:48 1302) No, I'm not alive, stop imagining I'm alive. 19:09:24 shachaf: Yes, there exist papers I write ;) 19:10:29 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50556 * GermanyBoy * (+3158) /* I'm worried about this, please stop */ new section 19:11:05 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 19:11:21 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:22:28 -!- MDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:41 `? Gregor 19:26:48 Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. 19:32:17 So that's where my cakes went. 19:33:10 as long as he doesn't take all the fternooners, I'm fine with it. 19:38:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:43:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:46:04 <\oren\> I wrote on paper once. I hated it, and switched back to writing on computers as soon as I could. 19:51:48 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50557&oldid=50556 * Keymaker * (+217) 19:56:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:59:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:04:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:04:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:06:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:06:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:07:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:07:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:12:02 What about drawing diagrams? 20:17:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:17:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:17:35 Phantom_Hoover: *cough* 20:18:06 I can wrote both on the paper and also on the computer 20:19:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:19:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:20:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:20:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:21:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 20:22:26 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b Phantom_Hoover!*@*$#fix_your_connection. 20:22:46 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 20:24:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:33:30 -!- MDude has joined. 20:36:14 -!- emg has quit (Quit: emg). 20:43:24 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:00:30 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 21:00:53 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:05:53 -!- Zarutian has joined. 21:06:19 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:06:53 -!- Zarutian has joined. 21:06:55 [wiki] [[SumaMoito]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50558&oldid=43821 * Atrapado * (-312) remove broken link 21:17:01 -!- moonheart08 has joined. 21:24:46 -!- JX7P has left ("Leaving"). 21:29:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:29:25 I learned the hard way that having a broken bouncing client is annoying to deal with.. 21:29:37 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:30:32 -!- rdococ has joined. 21:35:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:59:11 -!- moony has joined. 21:59:29 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:59:49 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 22:02:40 a bit of a programming question for y'all: how do you do progress bars? 22:03:14 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:06:47 What is it the progress of? 22:06:53 ▏ ▎ ▍ ▌ ▋ ▊ ▉ █ hth 22:07:49 zzo38: lets say file download for simplicity 22:08:20 zzo38: the file size is known at the start of the download. 22:09:17 You can multiply downloaded size by the size of the progress bar and divide by the total size of the file, and then you can fill that much of the bar. You can then add text for file size and estimated time. 22:09:53 fork the program into two processes and communicate through pv 22:11:26 zzo38: now lets say it is for level loading in a game. The amount of stuff in the level is known at the begining. Same general method? 22:12:27 Zarutian: Yes, although there will be a few differences. 22:15:28 What game anyways? 22:19:25 any game that has levels and loads each fully. (Too fast paced for continous loading) 22:20:51 Usually the similar thing will work 22:22:24 I guess for something like loading several files, you'll want to estimate how long it takes for one file (maybe using its size as proxy) and divide into chunks based on that 22:24:00 FireFly: most level files use arrays of structures (with internal pointers, this is usually laid out or intrepreted) and you use the array sizes or such. 22:24:32 Well sure, most files in general use lots of arrays of structures :P 22:24:39 at least the ones I've looked at 22:24:50 Though I haven't looked at too many level file formats 22:26:22 -!- Akaibu has joined. 22:33:21 Depending on the game, it might or might not be that simple. 22:33:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:34:51 even a pessimistic estimate of total is good enough, no? 22:35:31 You can make a simple estimate if you have to; that will also work 22:39:47 the file may be compressed (as was probably the case with some earlier games), and decompression time would also have to be taken into account 22:41:44 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:46:52 programming languages have conditionals like if, and loops like while 22:46:56 what about when? 22:47:06 when (something) { something else } 22:47:21 aka events 22:48:00 "earlier games"? 22:48:08 Pretty much all games compress data files 22:48:34 most develeopers seem to enjoy inventing their own compression and archive formats for reasons that I haven't understood 22:49:04 true... 22:49:10 I was thinking that myself tbh 22:49:15 There are many different kind of compression that may be used, although sometimes the compression isn't very good; the compression MegaZeux uses is not so good but I have made up a better compression for MegaZeux 22:50:37 and estimated time... 22:51:07 estimated time is definitely not very accurate by - we can't tell the future without something ridiculous or fictional. 22:51:19 ridiculous being impossible. 22:51:30 A Famicom game I made up called "Attribute Zone" loads/saves uncompressed levels on tape, although ROM levels are compressed with Huffman and RLE. 22:53:23 But, RLE only applies to some kind of tiles and not to all kind of tiles. Also it uses a single Huffman tree for all levels, although it is recomputed and recompiled into 6502 code whenever levels are added or changed. 22:53:52 rdococ_: You can just avoid estimated time if you need to I suppose 22:54:55 I've entertained the possibility of a world where games are "told" like stories over the telephone, then telephone operators would be the gamemaster for the player 22:55:39 so over-the-phone tabletop RPG+ 22:55:42 ?* 22:55:42 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 22:55:44 yeah. 22:55:45 rdococ_: re "when" well Monte has when but it is more like .then() used in promises (though you can let it wait for many promises to resolve) 22:56:19 I've also entertained the idea of a "else" function used on its own without the if preceding it, and what it would do 22:56:47 rdococ_: then there is the when construct one can make easily in Tcl/Ttk. That just checks and rechecks every time the even loop is idle. 22:57:16 nah, I imagined when (event) {} as a way to listen for events 22:57:20 youbetterdothis-orelse! { stuff } 22:58:13 put it this way - each program is composed of some variable and event declarations, and then a bunch of [when] constructs. user interaction would involve executing an available subset of all the events. 22:58:22 while () { } else { } 22:59:33 when () { } 22:59:42 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:00:00 in fact I created a mock-up of how my when idea would work in notepad++ 23:00:10 rdococ_: sound like both like Jule and event loop based programming. 23:00:14 with the user defined language feature 23:00:20 there's no loop to it though 23:03:22 well, usually there is only one event loop that is running constantly after program initialization, and it just gathers events and dispatches them to the whatever is waiting for them. 23:03:39 a program in my language would be called a machine, and it would be composed of variable/event declarations - along with the "user" modifier for events that the user can activate - and then listeners for each event that are added to some sort of register and are executed when the event is fired. no need for loops. 23:04:45 register being a real world metaphor for check-in and check-out registers that hotels and schools employ. 23:04:49 so basically state machines? 23:05:20 ...yeah. 23:05:32 the name event loop programming is just an artifact on how such event systems were first implemented. 23:05:40 but you are basically describing such. 23:05:49 oh okay... 23:06:24 but do go on because you might discover something overlooked by others that have done stuff in this part of the noosphere 23:09:33 still, it's easier to use than an actual fsm. 23:09:33 fsm being an abbreviation for finite state machine. and easier to use meaning more ease of programming. 23:09:33 you could have a HP variable, then an enemy attack script check if your HP <= 0 directly. 23:10:49 okay, I guess 23:11:12 brb need loo 23:12:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:13:24 -!- augur has joined. 23:14:02 back 23:14:13 however, during my toilet break I realized that my language isn't a finite state machine. 23:14:46 you see, you can do math on the variables. 23:15:34 so you can do this: 23:16:19 rdococ_: What about me?? 23:16:38 when (leftBracket) { brackets += 1 }; when (rightBracket) { brackets -= 1; if (brackets < 0) { /* uh oh, right bracket where it shouldn't be */ } } 23:18:23 hppavilion[1]: you're the second item of an array, how are you a language? 23:18:24 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:18:42 unless, where you live, languages are first class objects (which is well possible) 23:22:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:24:05 rdococ_: (1) The arrays are indexed from 4 here (2) I was joking about the HP variable (3) WELL THEY ARE NOW 23:26:39 lol 23:28:32 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:30:57 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:31:09 -!- moony has joined. 23:31:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:33:55 -!- rdococ has joined. 23:35:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:39:02 -!- augur has joined.