00:00:11 shachaf: I think I can manage... 00:23:26 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:24:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 00:24:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:15 -!- augur has joined. 00:44:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:55:10 @tell rdococ if you remove one stack then it would be FSA, right? like a turing machine that can only move right? <-- no, DPDA hth 00:55:10 Consider it noted. 01:02:21 err, oops. 01:03:26 how do I build a cover story for that... my stupid twin is visiting and hijacked my keyboard? 01:06:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:21 `learn twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. he sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. 01:15:24 DONE 01:15:27 Learned 'twint-e': twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. he sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. 01:15:33 oops 01:15:50 `slwd twint-e//s/he/He/ 01:15:54 twint-e//twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. 01:16:09 `thanks oerjan 01:16:10 Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan. 01:19:26 Huh, fungot's been up and running since sometime last November without having to had to rejigger it. 01:19:26 fizzie: well he should keep quiet! things are very closely linked to the implementation of this action on the part of the investment allocated to transport, to replace other forms of trafficking, which destroys so many lives. 01:19:43 fiendish 01:20:17 Sounds like someone's been unruly at the europarl. 01:20:51 ^style 01:20:52 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:21:01 ^style agora 01:21:01 Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) 01:21:17 fungot: does this work? 01:21:17 int-e: resolved, no person may use them to be 01:21:25 Not too well. 01:21:26 fungot: not very well, eh? 01:21:27 int-e: the notary and the most recent date on which each player's orientation.) in the following are generally true of all 01:21:32 ^style europarl 01:21:32 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 01:21:54 "(Heckling) Calm down, young man, you will have every right to shout afterwards. Or go and have some breakfast, and come back when you have calmed down..." 01:22:18 Seems like a spirited session. 01:22:26 fungot: nostril. 01:22:28 boily: mr president, i am assuming that individual commissioners might perhaps also wish to refer to two of my constituents in the shetland isles in scotland, to reconsider a reduction in payments does not make sense for us always to advocate greater democracy for workers in the private sector. this is also why, since i sent a note to answer this crucial question: do you not think that this is only a first step towards establis 01:22:38 "Mr Cohn-Bendit, you should not be contemptuous of a colleague!" "Well he should keep quiet! Things are very simple. --" 01:22:41 Democracy in action. 01:24:31 "Madam President, I do not understand why you are getting so irritated before I have even opened my mouth!" 01:25:29 . o O ( Sounds like a common complaint of some IRC trolls. ) 01:27:43 fungot: are you for the current establishment? 01:27:44 boily: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the concern voiced here is completely groundless. 01:27:59 fungot: yes, I am grounded. 01:27:59 boily: mr president, i voted for the report i hope the commissioner can produce that for us. 01:28:18 fungot: I think we all hope that. 01:28:19 fizzie: i should like to inform you that the views on the backwardness of american culture as compared with the earlier voting time, it is well-known that my irish colleague, commissioner monti wrote to the president of the millennium declaration and the ensuing resolution, that we can see to it that they are not all that satisfied about what has been said in the report, it will be possible, by the clear commitment to responsib 01:28:29 fungot: very politician, voting on something you haven't seen :) 01:28:30 int-e: mr president, i merely wanted to draw your attention to the specialist training and of help towards micro-projects aimed at improving the contribution which would be incompatible with the wto ministerial meeting in new york, even in some of the suggestions contained in the report. 01:28:50 . o O ( "politician" is an adjective, right? Right?! ) 01:29:40 "politician -- (a schemer who tries to gain advantage in an organization in sly or underhanded ways)" (WordNet) 01:29:51 Okay, there were some other meanings as well. 01:31:37 A. Bierce suggests, POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When we wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive. 01:31:58 I guess that "we" is a "he". 01:39:27 Sad, the text is correct on project gutenberg but I found that typo on two websites :-( 01:43:44 fungœt 01:45:57 Hmm, bitcoin looks foamy. 01:48:22 <\oren\> omg omg I love this game 01:49:22 the star star one? 01:52:15 <\oren\> yeah 01:52:23 <\oren\> it's hilarious 01:54:20 thanks for the warning 01:56:57 int-e: http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com hth 01:57:21 (There's more to that game than it seems.) 01:58:30 including e.g. http://slbkbs.org/moon.png 01:58:38 YUI({}).use('gallery-base64', function(Y) { var enc=Y.Base64.decode('...');eval(enc);}); 01:59:16 you're holding back progress, yo 01:59:54 int-ello. that doesn't look very safe... 01:59:59 why do you have to base64-encode the whole thing, it doesn't make sense. 02:00:19 I don't know, it's not my thing. 02:01:03 boily: that's, I guess, the code implementing the game shachaf linked to. 02:01:59 it's a good game 02:02:01 very realistic 02:04:00 this part also seems important: o.parentNode.insertBefore(s,o)}(window,document,"script","//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js","ga"),ga("create","UA-49624540-1","beepboopbitcoin.com"),ga("send","pageview") 02:04:33 -!- augur has joined. 02:04:45 you gotta have analytics 02:05:15 I'll admit that there are some nice text snippets in there. 02:05:26 "everyone is talking about a scam some people fell for.","they're complaining that wikipedia doesn't accept donations in bitcoin.",... 02:06:05 Hmm, bitcoin looks foamy. <-- wow, it's passed 1 USD / mBTC 02:06:23 yes, for the second time in its history. 02:06:40 can i have that in picodollars twh 02:09:59 but okay, the base64 mainly seems to be used to obfuscate the text snippets, nothing sinister. 02:10:09 <\oren\> huh, the currency in this game is weird. they use the symbol $ for it, but a beer costs $200 02:10:31 What's weird? 02:10:35 maybe it's set 30 years in the future. 02:10:46 <\oren\> int-e: it's set in 2070 02:10:55 seems realistic then 02:11:00 <\oren\> why? 02:11:13 inflation. 02:11:21 <\oren\> oooh 02:11:27 <\oren\> ouch. 02:12:33 That's quite a bit of inflation. 02:12:58 what's a beer today 02:13:14 (It's fun to read novels from the 30s and compare prizes... e.g., expensive private detectives asking for $20 a week!) 02:13:16 Certainly not unprecedented, but a lot for the US. 02:13:23 (plus expenses!) 02:13:26 what's a beer today 02:13:33 oerjan: about 0.01 btc 02:13:43 I don't know, but I assume <$20 02:13:51 10 USD, check 02:13:52 <\oren\> uh, 5 to 7 CAD 02:14:01 "the big news is that one of the big name bitcoin businesses just shut down without warning. All customer assets have vanished. The owners are blaming hackers." 02:14:07 <\oren\> a good beer is 7 CAD 02:14:13 I have no clue what that could be alluding to!!!!1 02:14:20 Are you playing the game or just reading the code? 02:14:42 It's a good game, you should eval all that code. 02:14:52 listen, i want the price in USD for obvious reason. 02:15:06 "You read about a company called Flutterby Labs" -- not very well obfuscated, that one. 02:15:14 but i'll go with $10 02:15:47 > 20 ** (1/(70-16)) 02:15:49 1.0570442011720849 02:15:55 ok that high 02:16:03 Haha. "Flutterby Labs Inc. is a small, fairly new organization in the prepackaged software companies industry located in Mountain View, CA" 02:16:04 int-e: If you play the game, you get to play multiple parallel games, one of them as Flutterby Labs 02:16:18 If I remember correctly? 02:16:25 i think the inflation goal is 2 or 2.5? and the feds have had trouble getting it that high... 02:16:46 (%) 02:16:51 itym the fed hth 02:17:28 \oren\: your beers are cheaper than here... 02:17:29 Neat. "Except Butterfly Labs added a twist. They didn't sell pickaxes. They sold preorders for pickaxes." 02:20:01 But the game doesn't mention the GH/J metric, sad. 02:22:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:29:35 `? rocket surgery 02:29:38 rocket surgery? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:35:22 <\oren\> In KSP i had to do rocket surgery the other day 02:35:58 <\oren\> I put the wrong part on my space cruiser and had to replace it on orbit 02:36:09 strut. 02:37:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SECRETARY CHICKEN). 02:38:19 <\oren\> I tossed the other reactor into the atmosphere. it's probably fine. 02:40:44 <\oren\> pffhahahahahahahahahahahahah "mon aeroglisseur est plain de anguilles" 02:41:09 -!- augur has joined. 02:48:39 -!- ickystick has changed nick to weepypeep. 02:49:45 * oerjan fastens weepypeep's nick with a staple gun 02:51:12 identity crisis 02:51:23 oerjan: good, it was pretty unstaple 02:51:46 * oerjan fastens shachaf's nick with a swatter -----### 02:52:33 * FireFly buzzes about 02:52:38 HireFly 02:52:50 hachaf 02:52:55 what's your rate twh 02:53:11 rate? 02:53:20 if i want to hirefly 02:53:29 can i pay you in insects 02:53:36 apparently that's what fireflies eat 02:53:37 * oerjan catches FireFly with a double Lewberger with left spiral out -----### 02:53:38 I'd say I hum at about 200Hz 02:53:42 Oh 02:54:18 shachaf: pfft, if anything you should pay me in *real* fake money, like bitcoins 02:54:40 `coins 02:54:52 ​haikcoin wtrycoin 6iycoin kachidcoin fclafacoin optimecoin lrhotoogtcoin prelcoin mouserticoin bytecoin maftgreencoin prolacoin spiracoin aarcoin surfcoin raincoin tendocoin ikvcoin choonlecoin cobocoin 02:55:39 aaaaaaaaaaaarcoin 03:05:16 presumably the bytecoin is pegged to the bitcoin 03:05:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:56 i demand nooodlcoin 03:13:45 `? nooodlcoin 03:13:47 nooodlcoin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:13:55 `cat bin/? 03:13:57 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; 03:14:13 `2 cat bin/\? 03:14:17 2/2: "$topic1" | rnooooooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi 03:15:31 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 03:16:46 `sled bin/?//s, | rnooodl,,;sfi,fi | rnooodl, 03:16:48 ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 32: unterminated `s' command 03:17:21 `sled bin/?//s, [|] rnooodl,,;sfi,fi | rnooodl, 03:17:23 ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 34: unterminated `s' command 03:17:28 argh 03:18:19 oerjan: s,fi hth 03:18:27 `sled bin/?//s, [|] rnooodl,,g;s,fi,fi | rnooodl, 03:18:34 bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo 03:18:56 `? nooodlcoin 03:19:00 nooooodlcoin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:19:00 in my opinion it wouldn't hurt to just replace the #!/bin/bash with something more nooooooooodly 03:19:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:20:17 `? nooodl 03:20:21 noooooodl is the correct spelling 03:21:04 i don't understand what you mean. 03:23:33 or, if i do, i don't think it would make a difference. 03:23:40 it wouldn't in this case 03:26:06 <\oren\> It occurs to me that mmost of these jokes are references to internet culture that are a product of this decade, and therefore this game will be less funny when played in the year it is set in 03:26:33 shocking 03:27:20 maybe it'll just be funny for a different reason. zeerust anyone? 03:29:24 <\oren\> "she's using a tochscreen phone, like wut? people stopped using those in the 30's!" 03:30:08 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:34:07 poochscreen phone 03:34:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 03:34:47 -!- Kaynato has quit (*.net *.split). 03:34:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:35:07 -!- Kaynato has joined. 03:46:31 <\oren\> I actually wonder what sort of user interface will catch on in the next few decades 03:50:17 <\oren\> right now it's touchscreens on everything. 03:50:48 <\oren\> but I've seen people play games using eye tracking software 03:52:03 <\oren\> it seems the trend is toward as little physical effort as possible 04:00:47 <\oren\> $ export CURRENT_YEAR=2017 04:01:01 <\oren\> forgot to set the CURRENT_YEA 04:12:04 I don't like touch screen; keyboard is a better interface 04:14:18 zzo38: Agreed 04:14:32 I'd prefer not to use mouse, but everything is designed for it and such is the way of the world 04:16:04 <\oren\> I would prefer eye tracking if I could afford the damn thing 04:16:23 <\oren\> eye tracking for the mouse, not the keyboard 04:16:42 \oren\: Hawking has eye tracking for his keyboard 04:17:08 I'd also like a chorded keyboard if I could get such a thing 04:17:23 <\oren\> well, technically I can afford it, but it just seems like a waste for what is effectively a prototype 04:17:42 I *might* be able to set one up with AHK by making it so that any combination of keys followed by a key release types that combination 04:17:45 OOOh 04:17:58 And presumably if you don't release all the keys you were holding, the ones you're still holding stick around :D 04:20:59 So exempli gratia the chords for 'T' and 'H' would vary by a single note, since 'TH' is the most common digraph 04:21:19 But then again, T is a common letter, so it might be only a single symbol in the first place 04:21:23 Hymn... 04:23:46 Let's say that in Monty Pythonian, 'ca' is a common trigraph, but 'c' and 'a' are relatively uncommon outside of that trigraph 04:25:07 You might bind 'c' to the sequence (on a traditional keyboard with chording added on) asf+j and 'a' to the sequence asf+k 04:25:40 (the notation here being +- you depress the contributing notes then press and release the triggering note to type a symbol) 04:27:15 So you'd do (using an unrelated notation where every time a symbol appears alone it's pressed and appearing immediately before ^ it is released) asfjj^kk^ 04:27:29 And you'd wind up with 'ca' typed. 04:29:43 that's a pretty short trigraph. 04:30:55 oerjan: "a" counts as 4 letters in Monty Pythonian hth 04:31:23 and "c" as -1? 04:31:55 oerjan: Obviously. 04:32:08 figures. 04:32:44 "What's the word count of your essay" "2_576+694i" 04:33:06 off by i error 04:33:33 Not everything is designed for mouse and touch screen there is other way too. Many program can use keyboard, and some are design they can work with mouse and with keyboard. 04:43:35 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:53:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:55:37 -!- syn811 has joined. 04:56:13 hello 04:57:09 -!- syn811 has left. 05:13:29 <\oren\> gone already? 05:42:21 `? oerjan 05:42:25 Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 05:42:32 `? words 05:42:37 Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore. 05:42:47 `? Hard words 05:42:51 Hard words? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 06:16:57 <\oren\> argh I hate twitter so much 06:17:17 <\oren\> why do people put clapping emojis between every word 06:27:01 Costs as much as space. 06:55:30 I made up a program to convert all of the X cursor shapes for use with SDL. The resulting data should then be usable with SDL on any computer. 08:13:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:44:11 -!- augur has joined. 09:01:39 `? violation 09:01:46 Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family. 09:02:02 :D 09:03:11 `cwlprits violation 09:03:26 tsweẗt tsweẗt 09:38:02 -!- Akaibu has quit. 11:04:26 -!- atehwa has joined. 11:33:48 -!- boily has joined. 11:34:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:35:47 `wisdom 11:35:59 poland//Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes. 12:01:23 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:06:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 12:07:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:24 -!- ocharles_ has quit (*.net *.split). 12:19:24 -!- sparr has quit (*.net *.split). 12:21:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUPERPOSED CHICKEN). 12:21:45 -!- sparr has joined. 12:23:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:25:43 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 13:02:39 ha ha 13:04:52 `wisdom 13:04:58 `? rdococ 13:05:07 select//select is a very versatile construct: it waits for events, retrieves data from tables, creates a list from elements of an input list that satisfy a condition, a dropdown list element, an event for when selection changes, branches between multiple arms, conditional between two expressions, prints a text-based menu prompt in a loop, and more. 13:05:10 rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom. 13:23:48 -!- augur has joined. 13:28:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:36:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:48:18 oh! let's make an operating system where any byte, including the nul byte, can be part of a pathname, so system calls take filenames terminated by a '\1' followed by 255 '\0' bytes. that can't conflict with anything, since pathname components can't be longer than 255 bytes. 13:48:21 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:48:21 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 13:48:21 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:48:33 -!- LKoen_ has joined. 13:50:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:52:09 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:54:54 -!- augur has joined. 14:58:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:59:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:12:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:58:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:04:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:35:22 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:39:14 -!- augur has joined. 16:41:18 <\oren\> `? fraktur 16:41:26 ono ouo 16:41:33 <\oren\> 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯 16:41:39 OuO oUo 16:41:47 the connection has fraktured 16:41:49 0u0 16:41:52 oh no 16:41:55 we must fiks it 16:41:59 <\oren\> ^w^ 16:42:23 fizzie: !!!!!!! 16:42:32 ono <(we must fix the connexone) 16:43:01 ono 16:43:38 apparently so has fizzie 16:43:39 ono 16:43:43 Gregor!!!! 16:43:53 (wild attempt) 16:44:06 ._. 16:44:57 . o O ( it was the Day of the Apocalypse. HackEgo had fraktured, and the channel was filled with eerie colors... ) 16:45:16 <\oren\> 𝔬𝔲𝔬 16:45:21 if you wanted eerie colors rather than cute colors you could have just said. 16:45:46 . o O ( and then it turned red like blood ) 16:47:09 indeed 16:47:26 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha 16:47:50 . o O ( fortunately for once, putty's ignorance of colors when cutting and pasting helped ) 16:48:24 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha 16:48:47 . o O ( as did irssi's ignorance of tabs ) 16:49:13 . o O ( * wilful ignorance ) 16:49:51 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha 16:50:14 . o O ( you cooould just highlight it ) 16:50:28 . o O ( oh and HexChat lets you choose whether to copy colors ) 16:50:44 <\oren\> ok srsly how do you do reversed text 16:50:54 o-o . o O ( srsly ) 16:51:06 . o O ( apparently putty's highlighting doesn't overcome red on red, so no. ) 16:51:09 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha 16:51:41 what about green-on-green? 16:51:42 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha 16:51:47 <\oren\> there! 16:51:57 my lovely hexchat always makes highlighted text white on blue 16:52:08 so it's easy to read no matter what the original colours were 16:52:14 thus, hexchat is the clear victor 16:52:16 rdococ: not that either. 16:52:22 ? 16:52:27 <\oren\> stupid tmux, stop responding to my clicking! 16:52:55 <\oren\> reversed text 16:53:35 It amuses me that you had a panic attack that HackEgo was down but couldn't care less that esolangs.org is down. 16:54:20 THEY'RE THE SAME THING 16:54:27 16:54:44 Not sure what happened but I gave the server a (virtual) kick so hopefully it'll come back up. 16:55:06 yay! 16:55:15 <\oren\> hmm terrible idea, lets make it possible to edit the wiki by sending sed command to Heackego 16:55:58 <\oren\> like `wikised brainfuck s/something that needs to change/the thing it should be/ 16:56:14 that is indeed a terrible idea. 16:56:52 <\oren\> then we can have and watch edit wars in real time 16:57:22 we can already watch them. except now fizzie probably needs to restart the wiki bridge after this. 16:57:44 <\oren\> it will be fun when people craft their regexes to preemptively overwrite what other people are trying to wirte 16:57:59 the colors are still here 16:58:23 . o O ( don't tempt me to add +c ) 16:58:32 <\oren\> for me, that's light red on dark red 16:58:45 how? 16:58:57 how what 16:59:37 it seems HackEgo is still not joining. 16:59:47 <\oren\> rdococ: i dunno, I'm using irssi -> tmux -> ssh -> tmux -> mac terminal 16:59:58 nor the wiki 17:00:59 <\oren\> iterm2, however, shows it as bright red on bright red 17:01:03 presumably mac terminal doesn't like to show colors as invisible 17:02:08 <\oren\> I think mac terminal jsut doesn't support bright colors as backgraound and foreground 17:02:16 <\oren\> a lot of terminals don't 17:03:19 <\oren\> basically they have to support display modes 90-109 for that 17:03:53 ? 17:04:08 mac terminal? 17:04:48 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code 17:05:39 <\oren\> [103mtest 17:06:07 <\oren\> [93mtest 17:06:25 ? 17:06:27 -!- HackEgo has joined. 17:06:29 weird 17:06:38 [93do you see this in color? 17:07:20 <\oren\> `` echo $'\e[93mtest' 17:07:30 ​[93mtest 17:07:40 rdococ: no hth 17:07:50 I meant \oren\ -.- 17:09:04 <\oren\> no I don't, so i'm at a loss as to how irssi is doing this 17:11:09 <\oren\> oh, iterm2 supports ^[[38;5;Nm 256 color mode 17:11:27 anyway 17:11:36 what horrible language should I think about and end up not making today? 17:11:56 <\oren\> and evem ^[[38;2;R;G;Bm 24 bit color 17:12:10 oh, cool 17:12:31 YaY 17:13:11 <\oren\> [38;2;240;255;240m 17:13:11 yAy 17:14:22 <\oren\> [38;2;240;255;240mtesting testing 1 2 3 17:14:30 <\oren\> argh 17:15:00 <\oren\> [38;5;49mtesting testing 1 2 3 17:15:17 <\oren\> but irssi doesn't let either of thse through 17:15:25 It's a pity there's no practical way to do polyglot 24-bit color *and* lower bit depths (in such a way things "just work" for everything)... 17:15:43 \oren\: i see some very light colors on white 17:16:19 <\oren\> oerjan: those were supposed to be honeydew (a very light green) 17:16:29 <\oren\> and a very light turkoise 17:16:40 turquoise may be right 17:16:53 the first one looked more grey, though 17:17:40 [38;2;240;255;10what color does this look like? 17:17:52 [38;2;240;255;10mI mean this 17:18:12 that looks light gold or thereabouts 17:18:24 well, that is 240;255;10 17:18:31 [38;2;240;255;0mso this will be yellow? 17:18:38 [38;2;240;255;0mwell, gold but yellow? 17:18:38 putty seems to have checked something called "xterm 256 color mode". 17:18:43 yeah 17:18:56 so i guess it has more color capability than i thought. 17:19:04 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:19:08 <\oren\> oerjan: so something further p my chain must be stripping it out 17:19:29 [38;2;255;0;0mr[38;2;255;128;0ma[38;2;255;255;0mi[38;2;128;255;0mn[38;2;0;255;0mb 17:20:16 <\oren\> hmm, so my version of irssi must be old 17:21:09 apparently irssi has a setting for 24 bit colors, but it was off. 17:21:34 "It's a pity there's no practical way to do polyglot 24-bit color *and* lower bit depths (in such a way things "just work" for everything)..." => ais523 did some research about that. but it's indeed very difficult because if you write the 24-bit color codes with colons, then some terminals don't understand them, and if you write them with semicolons, then linux console will interpret the individual components as codes setting mode flags some of which are 17:21:51 \ but it's indeed very difficult because if you write the 24-bit color codes with colons, then some terminals don't understand them, and if you write them with semicolons, then linux console will interpret the individual components as codes setting mode flags some of which are harmful so you need to specifically turn them off. 17:23:19 The value 12 is the most harmful in particular, because "\e[12m" turns on some crazy mode on linux console. 17:24:38 Very colorful. 17:24:45 Was my ping just about HackEgo? 17:25:20 So you need to explicitly undo it with "\e[10m" 17:25:58 I don't recall what ais523 decided eventually about polyglots with 24-bit color. 17:27:35 <\oren\> irssi doesn't have any updated documentation, so the best way to figure a lot of stuff out is to use the source 17:27:38 fizzie: yep. it might need the wiki bridge restarted now. 17:27:55 but Gregor fixed the rest. 17:28:11 (well, i assume he didn't fix the bridge, since he didn't make it) 17:28:42 b_jonas: Yup, exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. 17:29:02 You can *just* do 256 color, but I don't think ais523 figured out a way to do it, and I certainly don't see one. 17:29:34 pikhq: 256 color has a different problem that makes it almost impossible to do as a generic polyglot that works everywhere 17:29:47 oerjan: Thanks for reminding, I didn't think of the bridge at all. 17:30:02 (It may or may not be still alive; I'll check.) 17:31:04 namely that urxvt can be compiled to support either the 256 color mode or the 80 color mode, and those two use EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING ESCAPE SEQUENCES BUT WITH A DIFFERENT PALETTE so the same escape sequence can set one of two unrelated colors. 17:31:12 ... 17:31:35 You tell the terminal that you want color number 75, and then you get either the 75th color of the series of 80, or the 75th color from the series of 256 17:31:38 brilliant, eh? 17:32:05 <\oren\> brillant 17:33:34 -!- clog has joined. 17:36:31 amazing 17:36:34 brilliant 17:36:39 And these are just the saner things he had to deal with about terminals, because there are terminals where the problem isn't with fancy multi-color support, but basic functions broken. 17:36:41 applause 17:37:05 g g 17:37:08 Like that terminal that can't decode utf-8 characters that happen to be split through a read() boundary; 17:37:30 well done 17:37:56 OSX's. 17:38:28 that other terminal which is the reason why ais's library initializes terminals by sending a few kilobytes of nulls; 17:38:34 Hah. 17:39:03 that terminal which produces graphics glitches when the window size is too large; 17:39:40 that terminal which generates the same escape code for the home and end buttons; 17:39:49 s/buttons/keys/ 17:39:51 I should write a better terminal emulator 17:39:57 those terminals that crash; 17:40:13 [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50639&oldid=50637 * Redstarcoder * (+480) /* Code execution */ Explained fisherman instruction 17:40:19 [wiki] [[Cool]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50640 * IQBigBang * (+826) Created page with "Cool ('''C'''haracter '''O'''bject '''O'''riented '''L'''anguage) is esoteric programming language made by [[User:IQBigBang]] on 3rd January 2017. Almost everycharacter in thi..." 17:40:21 and older urxvt which used to get backspacing from past the end of the line wrong. 17:40:28 The bridge had indeed broken down. 17:40:43 I wasn't expecting edits immediately after bringing it back up, though. 17:40:45 zzo38: nah, there are good ones. the problem is that programs have to support old or broken terminals too. 17:41:02 Oh, and there's of course terminals that are just plain SLOW. 17:41:14 I currently use xterm 17:41:46 zzo38: for x11, I really recommend urxvt, provided you get a not very old version and compile it yourself with your preferred config options. 17:41:53 possibly patch it a bit. 17:42:00 easier than writing a completely new one. 17:42:04 -!- Zarutian has joined. 17:42:11 I run a patched xterm with custom configs myself on linux. 17:42:12 I wrote on http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/terminalemulator what feature I want to implement. 17:42:20 [wiki] [[Cool]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50641&oldid=50640 * IQBigBang * (+85) 17:42:58 zzo38: let me see 17:43:06 fizzie: we seem to be getting a lot of new users these days 17:43:28 "Nearly full support for DEC and Tektronix terminal emulation, including 17:43:28 Sixel and ReGIS graphics, full DEC technical set (including pieces of the 17:43:31 big Sigma), Tektronix APL mode, downloadable fonts, etc" => whoa 17:43:37 oerjan: Maybe this Internet thing is finally hitting it big time. 17:43:38 what do you need that for? 17:44:00 To be completed. Tektronix mode may be omitted, but the other stuff should not be omitted. 17:44:26 (I even debugged an ugly bug out of urxvt once. Those were the days.) 17:45:14 "Use different mouse cursor shape when mouse events are enabled (using 17:45:14 XC_xterm when not mouse mode, and XC_arrow when mouse clicking is enabled; 17:45:17 may be configurable)" => oh! good idea 17:45:52 *shrug* 17:46:02 Yes, that is a feature xterm doesn't have and that I think would be good. 17:46:27 "Pipe data to an external program (you configure what program and what arguments) to implementing printer controller mode; this external program receives all of the same ANSI data that the terminal will receive" => and another external program controlling the ticker tape puncher? 17:47:13 zzo38: you could patch some of these features to existing good terminal emulators (urxvt and screen are the ones I like) 17:47:21 * APic has a Sticker on his Bike where a Printer prints ANSI.SYS or something 17:47:57 Yes you could add such an external program if you want it to control a ticker tape puncher, although this is intended for sending to a printer, but could also be use for others. 17:48:04 "Support for any X visual classes (monochrome, grayscale, indexed colours, programmable indexed colours, true colours)" => I think urxvt has that 17:49:27 (and other features, like controlling with X resources, many xterm extensions) 17:50:15 <\oren\> the main feature I think terminals lack is more sophisticated graphics 17:50:25 "Keyboard commands for ... United Kingdom mode, local mode, VT52 mode, ..." => what the heck is that? 17:50:53 b_jonas: The first one is a mode where you can't type mean things about the Queen. 17:51:11 ☺ 17:51:17 Okay, maybe that's more of a "Thailand mode". 17:51:35 "Environment variable with process ID of terminal" => you can implement that with a small wrapper between the terminal and the shell or other program it starts, one that execves the program in its argument but saves its ppid to an env-var 17:51:37 No that is not what it means. United Kingdom mode mean you can type and display the British pounds sign. 17:52:02 or even with a shell command like export TERMINAL_PID=$PPID 17:52:17 <\oren\> instead of #? 17:52:20 Yes, that can work. 17:52:37 \oren\: Yes. It is a feature that actual DEC terminals have 17:55:00 [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50642&oldid=50639 * Redstarcoder * (+15) /* Dive / rise */ added fisherman to list of movement instructions 17:55:23 What I'd like is to have three separate displayed colors corresponding to each of the palette of approx 18 colors: one used for background, one for foreground when the background is dark, and one for foreground when the background is light. This would let most color combinations become readable. 17:56:15 b_jonas: Ah, that is a interesting idea I suppose. But may be considered more complicated than it should be. I do not know yet. 17:56:34 (Even if you are not in United Kingdom mode you can still display the British pounds sign when selecting VT100 character graphics set) 17:56:56 <\oren\> b_jonas: I have simply designed a pallette that has good display properties 17:57:38 <\oren\> in particular, the light and dark versions differ in hue as well as lightness to help readability 17:58:05 * hue nods 17:58:11 \oren\: yes, I have such a palette too, and other people have designed more, but some scheme like this (it might not be exactly what I described) could be even better 17:58:54 One of my idea is that for example SIGUSR1 may reset the terminal or partially reset the terminal, so that the shell can automatically do that after a program exits in order to avoid problem with programs that mess up the terminal mode. 17:58:57 zzo38: is rewrapping lines when you resize the window, like urxvt or the windows 10 terminal does, a goal? 17:59:07 b_jonas: No. 17:59:29 put that in non-goals then 17:59:32 OK 17:59:51 but dynamically resizing the terminal is still a goal, right? 18:00:01 and a user-configurable palette too 18:01:29 "One of my idea is that for example SIGUSR1 may reset the terminal or partially reset the terminal," => the problem with that is that the signal isn't necessarily ordered with writes to the terminal, so if both happen quickly (and they will often do when a program exits then the shell writes something) then the terminal won't know when to reset. 18:02:00 it would be better to use something that goes in-band 18:02:03 To resize the terminal by escape codes to at least 80x24 and 132x24 are goals; possibly others too. Although these features may be disabled by user configuration. Also of course the user can always resize the terminal window and to set the palette in the X resources. 18:02:22 ok 18:03:00 (The user can resize the terminal to any size; it doesn't have to be only 80x24) 18:03:15 It's a pity there's not a modernish spec for terminal escapes. 18:03:22 "the user can always resize the terminal window" => um, ok, but I mean the user should be able to resize the size of the terminal grid in characters, not only the window 18:03:51 Yes it does change the size of the terminal grid in characters. 18:03:52 i.e. one including what most people and terminals actually use, with little disregard for ancient historical practice or unused, unimplemented features. 18:05:09 Oh! Above when I takled about broken terminals, I forgot to rant about the windows 10 terminal's vt102-like escape code support! 18:06:11 The windows 10 terminal recognizes certain escapes, in particular "\e[6,3H" and "\e[H" works, but "\e[6H" is treated as a no-op. 18:07:13 Using in-band would help (and would avoid needing to use a signal), although then there is the problem to be confuse with incompleted codes, although there may be a way to work around that too, perhaps involving the ASCII "cancel" control, as well as maybe others too. 18:09:06 While it treats most DEC-like sequences it doesn't recognize (and there's many of those) as a no-op; it interprets "\x18" and "\x00" and "\x1a" and "\x0f" as some printable char taking up a grid space rather than a no-op. 18:10:22 Also, it uses the ugly style wrapping where if you write a character to the last column, the cursor is immediately moved to the next line, rather than kept in that row past the end of the line. 18:10:52 zzo38: I wonder if some tty-related magic ioctl can be used for this 18:11:22 b_jonas: I thought of that too but don't know if any such thing is possible. 18:13:08 doesn't tcdrain allow this somehow? 18:13:26 I mean, tcdrain together with some other side-band mechanism (not signals) 18:13:38 nah, probably it doesn't 18:14:03 oh 18:14:12 [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50643&oldid=50642 * Redstarcoder * (+11) /* *> */ note mirror as outdated 18:15:22 Perhaps you could use a protocol where the shell sends a long random number on a side-band, and a fixed escape sequence with that random number in it in the normal terminal stream, and the terminal makes sure to parse and find that escape sequence even when it's in a strange state that would normally not find that escape sequence. 18:16:30 That seems complicated 18:17:11 sure it is 18:17:45 it's probably easier to ensure that the terminal just can't be set into a mode where it doesn't listen to an ordinary init escape sequence (where you get to choose the exact string for that escape sequence) 18:18:20 Yes, that is what I suggested above about in-band, to use some sequence that can ensure it will work. 18:18:32 I should then just need to ensure that such a sequence exists. 18:18:54 Or possibly use a break for this, for a linux pty can detect that I think. 18:19:21 In-band has the advantage that it can work through ssh. 18:20:04 Yes, that is that. 18:20:21 In-band probably is best 18:22:14 ah no, linux pty can't detect a break. it can detect some other special signals including flow control that the slave can send (on a local host, not necessarily through ssh) with ioctl TIOCPKT 18:22:42 As far as I know a break signal is not possible with pseudoterminals anyways. But I thought to implement it anyways so that when the break key is pushed it will read the IGNBRK and BRKINT flags in order to determine what to do. 18:23:18 (and also PARMRK) 18:31:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:31:42 Is this possible to do? 18:40:15 I also thought that in response to a DECREQTPARM request it can use tcgetispeed(), tcgetospeed(), and tcgetattr() in order to determine how to respond. You can therefore change the reported baud rate if you have a slow connection to a telnet server in order to tell them to disable fancy stuff. 18:41:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:49:31 -!- otherbot has joined. 19:10:47 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Caught SIGINT). 19:21:48 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:22:04 -!- otherbot has joined. 19:28:04 that was evil. "Is your New Year’s resolution to read more webcomics?" 19:28:22 (from http://castoff-comic.com/comic/chapter-4-page-11/ ) 19:33:28 <\oren\> why does expedia recommend i fly cheap to reykjavik 19:33:58 Why wouldn't you? 19:34:31 <\oren\> becuase its cold in ice land 19:34:56 <\oren\> also I doubt an airline called "WOW air" is any good 19:35:08 @metar BIRK 19:35:10 BIRK 031900Z 10006KT CAVOK M00/M04 Q1026 R01/320150 19:35:21 it's only minus zero degrees 19:35:31 . o O ( nothing like a whiff of fresh air during a flight ) 19:35:33 <\oren\> probly land in vldivostok instead and get sent to gulag 19:35:45 -!- ocharles_ has quit (*.net *.split). 19:35:47 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 19:36:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:36:44 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:37:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:37:51 <\oren\> also why do so many flights have stops in atlanta 19:40:21 <\oren\> then again, a flight to ice land for only 240 canadian dollars is pretty impressive 19:55:19 -!- augur has joined. 19:55:24 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 20:00:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:13:51 -!- LKoen_ has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 20:30:05 @metar EGLL 20:30:06 EGLL 032020Z AUTO 26010KT 9999 OVC026 05/01 Q1025 NOSIG 20:30:41 @google 240 cad in usd 20:30:43 No Result Found. 20:30:47 hmph 20:31:01 That is not a lot of USD. 20:53:15 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:59:41 <\oren\> but I still haven't found out why expedia thinks i should go to ice land 21:26:12 -!- augur has joined. 21:34:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:34:59 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:36:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:04:04 -!- TieSoul has joined. 22:27:18 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:27:23 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:27:52 -!- augur has joined. 22:31:02 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:32:13 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:32:25 -!- deltab has joined. 22:37:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:34 -!- augur has joined. 22:57:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:12 -!- boily has joined. 23:07:44 `wisdom 23:07:49 json//JSON is JavaSyntax Or Nothing. 23:13:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:18:28 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:20:36 -!- augur has joined. 23:21:36 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:25:36 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:28:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:27 -!- augur has joined. 23:54:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.