00:07:27 shachaf: The other looks like an ℇ. 00:11:37 `icode ℇ 00:11:37 ​[U+2107 EULER CONSTANT] 00:21:38 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:22:08 nice clock ya got there ppcg 00:22:30 no way its not getting the bounty 00:37:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:41:12 -!- adu has joined. 00:42:06 -!- augur has joined. 01:14:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:31:37 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:32:40 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:40:05 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:53:38 -!- boily has joined. 01:56:00 hily 01:56:24 * oerjan still golfing :/ 01:57:43 hell§rjan! 01:58:03 the more you golf, the less you. 01:58:46 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 01:58:56 * oerjan vani 02:00:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:30 -!- hakatashi1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:46 * boily wraps fungot in a Norwegian flag an uses him as an oerjan ersatz 02:00:46 boily: that's awesome. i don't even understand what's there 02:00:52 :D 02:00:57 -!- hakatashi has joined. 02:01:09 not even fungot understands me. 02:01:10 oerjan: ( don't tell it to scan a slide at 1200dpi, a helpful message pops up that for slides it's better to do 02:05:38 `? golf 02:05:39 Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke. 02:07:25 Jafet: i note that the second kind of Trajedy transform can actually expand lengths (without ?). are you sure these aren't invertible if used only on say x<1/2 ? 02:08:17 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 02:12:50 e.g. if c==0 and b>a 02:13:00 yes I'm very sure, I tried inverting that for, like, five minutes 02:15:00 hmm, I was trying to extend the path using mirrors 02:16:04 oh, that could also work... 02:16:36 Jafet: note that what i'm saying is, you only need it to be invertible on a small subset of the domain/range 02:16:50 (well, implying) 02:17:07 because there's no reason you need to use the whole (0,1) interval. 02:17:43 mirrors _should_ work for that. 02:18:49 in fact, you don't even need that restriction, because you can put the mirror somewhere close to the beacon so that the "beam" has been compressed there. 02:19:18 (the target beacon) 02:19:37 or use a sheet of mirrors to catch everything 02:19:49 well, then you get gaps. 02:20:07 which i guess you can handle in a different way. 02:20:12 I haven't worked out what happens to the offset, though 02:20:30 i'm pretty sure you can add whatever offset you want? 02:21:40 when i thought about this a while ago, i found it convenient to think of a mirror not as changing the path, but as leading you into the mirror universe 02:22:05 like a portal 02:23:39 that does sound convenient 02:24:29 wait, is the mirror universe flipped perpendicularly to the mirror? 02:24:39 yeah 02:25:34 or wait 02:26:46 things are exactly where they'd look like they were if you look into a mirror. 02:28:41 B\ 02:28:43 B 02:28:56 hm no, that's not right 02:28:57 trying to visualise this is causing my brain to flip instead 02:29:38 B\ 02:29:41 B 02:30:43 and the mirror universe is, hm 02:31:01 B 02:31:05 \ 02:31:35 02:31:44 B 02:32:44 well, it should be the transposed grid. 02:33:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: KARMIC CHICKEN). 02:34:36 oh, I see 02:34:41 i think i'm thinking wrong, somehow. 02:35:02 well, it doesn't seem that convenient to me 02:35:19 it's just flipping the coordinates? 02:35:37 well it means you can draw them on top of each other, keeping the paths straight 02:36:56 unfortunately i have nothing very good to draw with... 02:37:42 * oerjan uses vim 02:43:00 going back to the c=0 idea, if x=p/q then x becomes bp/(aq+p) mod 1 02:43:14 I didn't try to use this device because it looked more complicated 02:47:32 ah i think i've got it 02:47:35 B 02:47:35 \.......C 02:47:35 ........D 02:47:35 .B 02:48:10 constructed from 02:48:12 B\? 02:48:12 ...B.....C 02:48:12 .........D 02:48:24 er ignore the mirror in the last one 02:49:55 i _put_ a mirror there, then flip the Bs around it 02:51:14 and then the ? is unnecessary because the second B gets left behind as you enter the "mirror universe". 02:51:52 gah connection seems flaky 02:52:12 sorry, was trying it out 02:53:04 did it work? 02:53:23 looks like it works 02:53:26 yay 02:53:32 thoerjan 02:53:39 yw 02:54:08 I'll try to update the example code 02:54:31 i think Trajedy probably has all the power of a pushdown automaton, but i also have great doubts about TC-ness. 02:54:45 there's also the ? used to merge multiple paths, which I didn't mention, but there should also be a workaround for that 02:55:24 it feels like in some sense it _shouldn't_ be possible to extract data compressed into it in this way in any substantially different order than FIFO. 02:56:28 doesn't the same limitation apply to befunge? 02:57:09 the wiki page only lists fifo stack commands 02:57:28 <\oren\> updated my font 02:57:44 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDPTmCWKZ4 02:58:00 quite possibly, i don't think befunge is TC with limited cell size and no extensions. 02:58:17 unless there's some way to access bottom of stack or the like. 02:58:27 oh nevermind, it has unbounded integers 02:58:37 <\oren\> ᖎᖏᖐᖑᖒᖓᖔᖕᖖᖠᖡᖢᖣᖤᖥᖦ桂 are the characters I added 02:58:39 (or I guess some implementations do) 02:58:47 Very few do. 02:58:54 <\oren\> support for Inuktitut should now be complete 02:59:13 oerjan: '98 has that stack of stacks, and has some manipulation commands that might be relevant. 03:00:04 oerjan: In particular, you can move elements both directions between top-of-stack-stack and second-of-stack-stack, which might make a workable tape. 03:00:29 ah. 03:00:31 "The u "Stack under Stack" instruction pops a count and transfers that many cells from the SOSS to the TOSS. It transfers these cells in a pop-push loop. In other words, the order is not preserved during transfer, it is reversed. If count is negative, |count| cells are transferred (similarly in a pop-push loop) from the TOSS to the SOSS." 03:01:11 <\oren\> b_jonas: 桂 is now in 03:01:47 i'm sure some people in this community must have discussed this previously. in fact the stack stack thing rings a vague bell. 03:02:12 (Befunge-93 is I guess uncontroversially sub-TC.) 03:06:53 Since there's implicit infinite 0s at the bottom of every stack, I think you can do a trivial brainfuck (infinite on both ends) to Funge-98 translation with some setup code, +- to "1+" and "1-", <> to "1u" and "01-u", ., to ,~ and [] to ":!#v_" and ":#v_" with suitably placed >s and \oren\: good, thanks. TODO self: check if all other characters used for Shogi move abbreviated notation are already in 03:15:01 <\oren\> this song has such cheezie lyrics 03:16:27 maybe I should learn vim for programming in this language, as emacs removes trailing whitespace 03:17:26 <\oren\> or you could use nano 03:18:01 <\oren\> also that is totally ass of emacs 03:18:02 does nano have whitespace-mode for showing the trailing spaces? 03:18:29 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:18:58 <\oren\> Jafet: you'd need to make your syntax highlighting scheme do that 03:19:11 <\oren\> but that's relatively simple 03:19:45 <\oren\> the default highlighting for C makes trailing space green 03:21:03 well, the emacs behaviour is sensible for every other language, so I don't fault it 03:25:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:25:57 -!- adu has joined. 03:26:55 heh, there is an alternative way to merge multiple streams, which also relies on the 2× magnification 03:30:45 -!- augur has joined. 03:36:10 also, unicode seems to be missing left-then-down (and left-then-up) arrows 03:36:58 the other six combinations are U+21B0 to U+21B5, but these two are absent 03:39:01 Do other characters sets have such arrows? If so, which one? 03:41:07 it's just odd that there are logically eight possible corner arrows, but only six are in the Arrows block 03:42:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:45:54 oh, they are at 2B10-2B11 03:46:10 -!- adu has joined. 03:47:10 <\oren\> ⤴⤵⤶⤷ 03:47:27 <\oren\> ↰↱↲↳↴ 03:48:30 <\oren\> wait. why did I draw some of those curved and some cornered 03:48:52 <\oren\> `unicode ⤴⤵⤶⤷ 03:48:54 U+2934 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b4 UTF-16BE: 2934 Decimal: ⤴ \ ⤴ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2935 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING DOWNWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b5 UTF-16BE: 2935 Decimal: ⤵ \ ⤵ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ 03:49:09 <\oren\> `unicode ↰↱↲↳ 03:49:10 U+21B0 UPWARDS ARROW WITH TIP LEFTWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 86 b0 UTF-16BE: 21b0 Decimal: ↰ \ ↰ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+21B1 UPWARDS ARROW WITH TIP RIGHTWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 86 b1 UTF-16BE: 21b1 Decimal: ↱ \ ↱ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+21B2 DOWNWARDS ARROW WI 03:49:30 <\oren\> `unicode CURVING 03:49:31 U+2934 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b4 UTF-16BE: 2934 Decimal: ⤴ \ ⤴ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2935 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING DOWNWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b5 UTF-16BE: 2935 Decimal: ⤵ \ ⤵ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ 03:50:00 <\oren\> `` unicode CURVING | grep U+ 03:50:01 U+2934 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS \ U+2935 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING DOWNWARDS \ U+2936 ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING LEFTWARDS \ U+2937 ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING RIGHTWARDS 03:50:25 <\oren\> Jafet: looks like there are only 4 curved arrows 03:52:03 > text $ "\x2B10\x2B11" ++ ['\x21B0'..'\x21B5'] 03:52:08 ⬐⬑↰↱↲↳↴↵ 03:52:44 <\oren\> those are the ones I drew with corners and not curves 03:53:48 <\oren\> > text $ ['\x2BA0'..'\x2BA7'] 03:53:51 ⮠⮡⮢⮣⮤⮥⮦⮧ 03:54:03 <\oren\> I havent drawn those?! what a disgrace 03:55:07 neither has this font, at any rate 03:55:27 <\oren\> `unicode 2BA0 03:55:27 ​⮠ 03:55:37 i can see them! 03:55:48 <\oren\> `unicode ⮠ 03:55:49 U+2BA0 DOWNWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW WITH LONG TIP LEFTWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 ae a0 UTF-16BE: 2ba0 Decimal: ⮠ \ ⮠ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 03:55:51 oddly, ↲ and ↵ are similar, but none of the others are 03:56:14 <\oren\> hmm... 03:56:20 well, the ones \oren\ texted. 03:56:21 so one is still missing (RIGHTWARDS THEN … UPWARDS, as it turns out) 03:57:03 `unicode 2B0F 03:57:04 ​⬏ 03:57:05 <\oren\> but we for some reason hav ↯ 03:57:19 <\oren\> Jafet: I have that 03:58:17 <\oren\> ...but it isnt in my font demo. odd 03:58:44 <\oren\> `unicode ⬎⬏⬐⬑ 03:58:45 U+2B0E RIGHTWARDS ARROW WITH TIP DOWNWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 ac 8e UTF-16BE: 2b0e Decimal: ⬎ \ ⬎ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2B0F RIGHTWARDS ARROW WITH TIP UPWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 ac 8f UTF-16BE: 2b0f Decimal: ⬏ \ ⬏ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2B10 LEFTWARDS ARR 04:01:31 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:10:04 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:27:05 -!- adu has joined. 04:47:25 This is the fragment program I made up to work like a PC text mode: http://sprunge.us/ePXg 04:52:44 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:17:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:21:21 -!- Guest45288 has joined. 05:21:22 -!- Guest45288 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:29:03 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - magnify with skip.png]]" 05:29:33 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - magnify with mirror.png]]" 05:31:13 I think V8 JavaScript has a problem; %TypedArray%.length is zero, even though it is supposed to be three. 05:44:14 What is %TypedArray%? 05:48:33 It is an object which is not directly exposed in a global variable, but you can write Object.getPrototypeOf(Int8Array.prototype).constructor in order to get that object. (That object is also a function, although calling it is an error.) 05:50:13 Why is it supposed to be three? 05:50:25 The specification says it is supposed to be three. 05:51:39 (I am not sure why that is necessary; it can't be called, so there shouldn't be much point in it having any value at all, but that is what it is.) 05:52:34 Where? 05:53:08 Oh, right, I remember this. 05:53:47 You talked about it before. 05:56:08 I found that V8 and Mozilla both give errors, but the error message is different. Mozilla gives "%TypedArray% calling/constructing not implemented yet" (as if they would ever implement it; it is not clear what it would do if it was implemented), while V8 gives "Abstract class TypedArray not directly constructable". 05:58:41 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - merge device.png]]" 06:07:00 [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51164&oldid=51160 * Jafetish * (+1630) add mirror magnification device by [[User:Oerjan]] 06:09:28 [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51165&oldid=51164 * Jafetish * (+1) /* Memory */ fix link 06:20:56 -!- augur has joined. 06:21:17 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Jafetish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - merge device.png]]": previous version was mislabeled 06:29:31 [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51167&oldid=51165 * Jafetish * (+99) author and pronunciation in lead 06:45:30 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:45:53 -!- Cale has joined. 07:34:07 the wiki really needs a category for languages like http://esolangs.org/wiki/CUTLASS 07:34:14 (and BANCStar, of course) 07:36:14 Enterprise languages 07:42:25 [wiki] [[CUTLASS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51168&oldid=47041 * Jafetish * (-11) move to new category, [[Category:Enterprise languages]] 07:42:58 Jafet: um, see Esolang:Policy 07:43:41 oh 07:44:58 [wiki] [[CUTLASS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51169&oldid=51168 * Jafetish * (+11) Undo revision 51168 by [[Special:Contributions/Jafetish|Jafetish]] ([[User talk:Jafetish|talk]]) 07:46:35 also, has anyone checked whether this CUTLASS language is actually esoteric 07:47:42 probably 07:49:37 well we can't remove the article, as wikipedia links to it 07:51:11 fiendish 07:52:46 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3590557_The_role_of_CUTLASS_in_software_reliability 07:52:50 “Conference Paper · November 1989 with 3 Reads” 07:53:09 it's obscure, at least 07:54:10 anyway 07:54:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:01:13 [wiki] [[CUTLASS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51170&oldid=51169 * Jafetish * (+168) add acronym expansion 08:03:16 [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51171&oldid=47243 * Jafetish * (+254) /* Enterprise languages */ new section 08:09:29 <\oren\> Why the fuck do my ukrainian generals have names like Lucas Brown 08:09:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:10:07 englishmen following the example of eugene of savoy 09:38:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:38:56 -!- augur has joined. 09:41:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:43:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:30:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:39:06 -!- augur has joined. 10:40:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:41:12 -!- choochter has joined. 10:49:09 -!- augur has joined. 11:06:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:06:26 -!- augur has joined. 11:29:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:34:05 -!- boily has joined. 11:38:33 `wisdom 11:38:35 fish//Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. 11:48:23 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:19:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MEEPLE CHICKEN). 13:53:01 -!- xfix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:54:16 -!- xfix has joined. 14:00:03 shachaf: what do you think when seeing this picture, https://neusprech.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/img_1255-e1478263773140-768x447.jpg 14:34:07 shachaf: regarding your other question, I think I had even missed the door on the ship wreck. I left it unsolved. 14:45:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:52:35 -!- Zarutian has joined. 14:53:47 -!- nycs has joined. 14:59:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:36:57 * Zarutian is thinking about funding a country and callign it Anonymous Proxy just to confuse people 15:45:23 @tell oerjan trajedy isn't just a pushdown automaton, it can also simulate 3D printers: https://imgur.com/a/SntRM 15:45:23 Consider it noted. 15:59:21 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to behodler. 15:59:27 -!- behodler has changed nick to ebholder. 15:59:33 -!- ebholder has changed nick to Elronnd. 16:09:51 I'm trying to understand some older obfuscated program I wrote, because I want to modify it, but have it still look nice. 16:10:11 I have to re-understand how it works, which is hard, because it's obfuscated. 16:13:33 how about a language that experiences issues with relativity? 16:14:04 one thread thinks x changed to 3 at the same time as y changing to 5, but the other thread disagrees :p 16:19:40 -!- augur has joined. 16:19:49 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:20:53 -!- Zarutian has joined. 16:31:10 i.e. every multi-core CPU since the last decade 16:37:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:55:40 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:58:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:59:47 -!- digitalcold has joined. 17:00:12 I vaguely remember that Java 8 was controversial, but I can't remember why 17:00:28 now the issue's come up at work and I'm having trouble wording a web search to find out why 17:00:30 anyone have ideas? 17:01:06 ais523: sorry, I don't follow Java 17:01:12 fair enough 17:01:27 meanwhile I'm considering getting my new esolang (actually, esolang family) up on Esolang 17:01:34 good 17:01:35 now I've worked out the right level of abstraction to present it at 17:01:58 I've kind-of sort-of proved it TC in my head? the problem is it has an annoying tendency to be reversible, which means that the usual translations don't work 17:02:10 because you need to figure out where the bitbucket comes from 17:02:10 I'm currently trying to modify an older esoteric program I have, to add new functionality but still keep it nice 17:02:18 like, nicely obfuscated 17:02:25 -!- pixels has joined. 17:02:26 it would be easy to add the new function non-obfuscated 17:02:43 but I think I can hide the new functionality in the existing obfu code so it doesn't disrupt the beauty 17:02:47 is the program meant to be obfuscated? 17:02:50 yes 17:02:52 this one is 17:02:55 also, is it written in an esolang, or is it obfuscated in other ways? 17:03:01 I want to submit the result to Golf SE 17:03:05 no, it's written in perl 17:03:37 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51172&oldid=51088 * Ais523 * (+16) /* C */ +[[Chaingate]] 17:03:57 just editing in a link so that I can create the article and it won't be orphaned 17:07:31 is there a language list of languages that aren't effectively "brainfuck, but" 17:08:02 pixels: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives ? 17:09:01 what is the opposite of that list? (list of all languages not on that list) 17:10:01 pixels: I don't think we have one prepared directly 17:11:07 ais523: I think the lambdas were a little controversial. 17:11:15 ah, ok 17:11:30 to be fair, a list of brainfuck-unrelated languages might be useful 17:11:40 however brainfuck derivatives are less than half the wiki, IIRC 17:11:48 despite what you might think looking at it 17:12:20 yeah clicking random page only gives me one every now and then 17:14:33 I just noticed [[Category:Reversible computing]] is missing from the categorisation page 17:14:38 we should make sure that thing's up to date 17:15:08 also, wow, Chaingate has ten different categories, plus an eleventh that doesn't exist yet but might be worth suggesting 17:22:00 if anyone can figure out what the right year number category is for MMIX, feel free to edit it 17:22:17 it wasn't made instantly, and I'm not sure what year counts as its birth 17:25:10 -!- xkapastel has joined. 17:25:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 17:27:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:29:54 b_jonas: first time a specification was available to the public, even if it's a specification of an older version 17:32:42 `unicode ANGLE BRACKET 17:32:44 U+2329 LEFT-POINTING ANGLE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 8c a9 UTF-16BE: 2329 Decimal: 〈 \ 〈 \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ Decomposition: 3008 \ \ U+232A RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 8c aa UTF-16BE: 232a Decimal: 〉 \ 〉 \ Category: Pe (Punctuation, Close) \ Bidi: ON (O 17:32:45 〈〉 17:34:33 I guess I'm still in a CS-y mood, I wanted proper tuple constructors in my documentation rather than having to resort to some other sort of bracket 17:35:33 `unicode MINUS SIGN 17:35:34 ​− 17:37:54 -!- Ir0nY has joined. 17:38:41 -!- staffehn_ has joined. 17:38:54 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 17:39:59 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 17:41:03 -!- viznut_ has joined. 17:42:50 int-e: Like I said, they're everywhere. 17:43:11 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- fractal has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- IronY has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- viznut has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- staffehn has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- kragniz has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:23 -!- Ir0nY has changed nick to IronY. 17:56:46 -!- fractal has joined. 17:56:58 -!- pixels has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:00:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 18:04:53 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:06:32 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 18:06:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:15:02 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 18:18:02 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Athame. 18:18:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:18:32 -!- Athame has changed nick to Guest88107. 18:19:39 -!- Guest88107 has changed nick to Elronnd. 18:29:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:30:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:31:32 [wiki] [[Chaingate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51173 * Ais523 * (+7949) new language family 18:31:54 [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51174&oldid=50446 * Ais523 * (+15) +[[Chaingate]] 18:43:32 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 18:53:03 [wiki] [[MMIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51175&oldid=50892 * B jonas * (+0) 18:54:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:17:31 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 19:20:15 [wiki] [[Chaingate]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51176&oldid=51173 * Ais523 * (-2) I implemented it while writing the article, but forgot to change the category 19:21:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:22:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:36:46 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:48:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:00:49 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:03:42 ais523: about Chaingate, I don't understand the sentence "the ability to make finitely many irreversible changes that some fs have doesn't change the computational class of the language because you could just start executing after those have happened", because it might not be computable how many of those irreversible changes will actually happen 20:05:10 hmm 20:05:15 ais523: also, where you write "0 exclusive to n inclusive" inside the defn of Free Chaingate, is that deliberate, or did you mean "0 inclusive to n exclusive"? 20:05:17 I don't think it can make it from sub-TC to TC 20:05:22 and that's backwards 20:06:07 ais523: it's possible that something like that still works, and the whole definition is unclear since you don't have inputs and TC would require inputs 20:06:09 [wiki] [[Chaingate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51177&oldid=51176 * Ais523 * (+0) /* Free Chaingate */ fix typo that rather changed the meaning 20:06:12 but the explanation is unclear as is 20:06:43 if I had to be mathematically rigorous in esolang descriptions on the wiki 20:06:46 they'd never get posted :-( 20:06:50 I've been putting this one off as it is 20:07:26 also, this language description reminds me to Incident 20:07:34 yes 20:07:39 the language is inspired by Incident, also Malbolge 20:07:54 it's more elegant than Incident though because you don't need a stack for every command 20:08:05 and more elegant than Malbolge because the encryption does the data storage, you don't need a separate memory 20:08:09 so Free Chaingate doesn't have values that never wrap around? 20:08:15 (not that Malbolge wass intended to be particularly elegant) 20:08:18 and it does, you set n to infinity 20:08:31 ah! 20:08:35 that's how that works 20:09:34 the language is clearly sub-TC if n is always finite 20:09:49 Hashlife is pretty neat. 20:09:52 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 20:10:10 so you're hoping that this becomes TC by incrementing bigints, sort of like 3SP? 20:11:20 wob_jonas: yes 20:11:33 actually I'm pretty sure I can store data correctly, control flow is the only real issue 20:11:43 it'd be trivial if not for Free Chaingate being reversible 20:11:59 which tends to screw with your control flow quite badly because you need a bitbucket 20:12:21 my current plan is to have two copies of each counter, and use the second one to undo the changes the first one made 20:12:33 shachaf: I got shouted at in the past for trying to get #esoteric excited about Hashlife 20:12:37 on the basis that it was old news 20:12:42 it is definitely something worth praising though 20:13:05 Since when does #esoteric care about things being old news? 20:13:23 This channel spends most of its time gazing at its historical navel. 20:13:26 I guess it did back then? 20:13:41 this channel has changed dominant topic repeatedly, I think 20:13:58 its typical topics nowadays are fairly unobjectionable, but also a fairly long way from the actual subject of the channel 20:14:28 gazing your hitsorical navel... hmm, have you bought a Nintendi Switch yet? 20:14:49 No, I've never had a Nintendo device. 20:14:54 Anyway the point is it's a pretty nifty algorithm. 20:18:08 If I like Hashlife what else would I like? 20:18:34 !quote ais523.*free will 20:18:36 err 20:18:36 There should be an Amazon-style recommendation program for papers. 20:18:39 `quote ais523.*free will 20:18:41 717) and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will 20:18:49 in the end I gave up 20:19:10 Colors? 20:19:17 Free will? 20:19:27 colors as in Life has two, live and dead 20:19:35 if you have more than two making them different colors is normally simplest 20:19:53 Do you mean that the third dimension is color or that it's in 3D space and there are also colors? 20:19:58 as for free will, the idea is that there's a human controlling the state transitions that infvolve a particular color 20:20:06 it's in 3D space, and there are colors=states 20:20:40 I'm not sure exactly how free will behaves but it seems problematic. 20:20:58 Is it easier in 2D life? 20:21:18 (Or 1D? Presumably there's a 1D hashlife?) 20:21:23 there's also three-color Game of Life, where cells are dead, red, or blue. In each step, if a dead cell is surrounded by exactly three non-dead cells, then it becomes the color of the majority of those three; and if a live cell has less than two or more than three non-dead neighbors then it dies, otherwise cells don't change state. 20:21:58 Game of Life is a factor of three-color Game of Life in the sense that if you take a three-color Game of Life process and map red and blue to live, then you get a valid Game of Life process. 20:22:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 20:22:34 `grwp red.*dead 20:23:08 No output. 20:23:22 `grwp dead.*red 20:23:30 Binary file reflection matches 20:23:46 hmm, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Game_of_Life says "discovery of the Gemini pattern" which looks wrong to me 20:23:54 isn't that an invention? 20:24:34 `grwp red.*dead 20:24:35 Binary file reflection matches 20:27:43 Why sometimes the video is mixed up? The phase of the picture changes sometimes, and sometimes make it fuzzy. What causes that? 20:28:00 what video? 20:28:13 The video signal displayed on the computer screen 20:28:21 Binary ♥ 20:28:21 I'm not sending you video, this is a text irc channel 20:28:25 ah 20:28:51 um, interference in the VGA cable because it's too long or too close to power cables usually 20:29:19 other possible causes are video chipset problems and monitor problems and dodgy cable 20:29:58 but VGA cable is the most frequent problem, and the good fix is to use monitor with DVI or HDMI or whatever this fancy even newer digital connection instead 20:30:03 monitor and motherboard 20:37:40 -!- pixels has joined. 20:39:46 -!- adu has joined. 20:40:58 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 20:54:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:56:40 -!- moony has joined. 20:57:11 > let a = a + 1; a 20:57:14 :1:17: error: 20:57:14 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 20:57:30 >let a = a + 1 20:57:36 *Cant haskell* 20:57:41 > let a = a + 1 20:57:44 : error: not an expression: ‘let a = a + 1’ 20:57:48 moony: in 20:57:48 let { a = a + 1; } in a 20:57:52 fail 20:57:53 braces optional in this case 20:58:09 > let { a = a + 1; } in a 20:58:10 or maybe you want do { let a = a + 1; a } 20:58:15 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 20:58:31 or just { let a = a + 1; a } but in Rust instead of haskell 20:58:35 but...i thought mueval was based on lambdabot? now lambdabot is based on mueval? 20:58:41 wot 20:59:04 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 20:59:10 moony: both are based on each other. lazy recursion. always terminates. 21:01:44 > [1..] # demoing for someone 21:01:48 error: 21:01:48 • Couldn't match type ‘[Integer]’ 21:01:48 with ‘Data.Tagged.Tagged b0 (Identity b0) 21:01:54 *fail* 21:01:58 > [1..] 21:02:01 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... 21:02:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:15:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:19:50 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 21:38:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:40:01 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 21:40:37 Hm 21:43:29 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 21:46:59 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:04:35 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 22:10:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:58 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:44:09 -!- ybden has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:45:24 -!- ybden has joined. 22:45:24 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 22:48:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:02:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:10:27 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:10:55 -!- nycs has joined. 23:11:47 -!- nycs has quit (Client Quit). 23:24:53 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:25:56 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:26:11 -!- tromp has joined. 23:30:51 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 23:31:27 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:38:11 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:53:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:57:57 @messages-bold 23:57:57 Jafet said 8h 12m 33s ago: trajedy isn't just a pushdown automaton, it can also simulate 3D printers: https://imgur.com/a/SntRM 23:58:00 fancy.