←2017-03-04 2017-03-05 2017-03-06→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:07:18 <rdococ> waht about real number
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00:37:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51202&oldid=51186 * Angrykoala * (+162)
00:38:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51203&oldid=51202 * Angrykoala * (+89)
00:39:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ChuckScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51204 * Angrykoala * (+3760) Created page with "ChuckScript is an [[esoteric programming language]] designed by Andrés Ortiz based on the concepts of [[Unary]], where all the code is written using only zeroes. The language..."
00:43:01 <oerjan> % not being a Prelude function ruins my golfing attempt :(
00:43:08 <pikhq> :(
00:43:40 <oerjan> (i was going to cheat on the input format)
00:43:42 <pikhq> `metar AFF
00:43:47 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar EDMO
00:43:47 <lambdabot> No result.
00:43:52 <pikhq> Oh durp
00:43:55 <pikhq> @metar AFF
00:44:13 <pikhq> Or does it need KAFF?
00:44:24 <oerjan> `airport AFF
00:44:25 <HackEgo> Oberpfaffenhofen (OBF, EDMO) \ Graaff Reinet (?, FAGR) \ Muzaffarabad (MFG, OPMF) \ Muzaffarpur (?, VEMZ) \ Flagstaff Pulliam Airport (FLG, KFLG) \ Schaffen Diest (?, ?) \ Safford Regional Airport (SAD, KSAD)
00:44:34 <pikhq> `airport KAFF
00:44:35 <HackEgo> No output.
00:44:40 <pikhq> Huh.
00:45:02 <oerjan> it seems not to have it at all.
00:45:22 <pikhq> KAFF is not exactly a minor airport.
00:45:32 <pikhq> That's the Air Force Academy's airfield.
00:45:44 <oerjan> `airport force
00:45:45 <HackEgo> Kirtland Air Force Base (IKR, KIKR) \ Hickam Air Force Base (?, PHIK)
00:46:00 <pikhq> @metar KAFF
00:46:00 <lambdabot> KAFF 042358Z AUTO 24016G22KT 10SM CLR 16/M22 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP109 T01591217 10183 20107 55001
00:46:09 <oerjan> i suppose no one added it
00:46:10 <pikhq> Welp, lambdabot can find it at least.
00:46:24 <pikhq> Granted there's not that many people that actually fly in or out of it.
00:46:47 <oerjan> i think someone mentioned HackEgo's list being crowdsourced
00:47:28 <oerjan> `` ls share/ai*
00:47:30 <HackEgo> share/airports.dat
00:47:50 <oerjan> `` url share/ai*
00:47:51 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/airports.dat
00:54:50 <zzo38> Now I made Hamster archive program on JavaScript; can be use with file and with memory, and can be use both reading and writing.
00:57:53 <zzo38> (The program is simple, because Hamster archive is a simple format, compared to tape archive and so on)
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01:52:41 <Zarutian> zzo38: Hamster archive file format?
02:08:39 <zzo38> It is consist of zero or more lumps; each lump consist of the null-terminated name, the 32-bit PDP-order data size, and then the data.
02:11:13 <Zarutian> PDP-ordered? big endian or little endian unsigned int?
02:11:22 <fizzie> oerjan: pikhq: Yes, the list is from http://openflights.org/data.html
02:11:43 <\oren\> > 23*20
02:11:46 <lambdabot> 460
02:11:51 <fizzie> Zarutian: "PDP-endian" usually refers to neither.
02:11:54 <\oren\> > 23**20
02:11:57 <lambdabot> 1.7161558313345862e27
02:12:34 <\oren\> binary coded base 23
02:12:46 <fizzie> Zarutian: It is a 32-bit big-endian combination of two 16-bit little-endian parts.
02:13:00 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness#Middle-endian
02:13:07 <Zarutian> fizzie: oh, that
02:14:06 <Zarutian> so the most significant 16-bit word is first but inside each 16-bit the least significant byte is first?
02:14:14 <fizzie> Yes.
02:14:22 <Zarutian> so ASCII or EBDIC?
02:14:27 <Zarutian> the filename that is
02:14:39 <zzo38> The lump names are ASCII.
02:14:47 <Zarutian> or is it something like PETSCI.
02:14:50 <Zarutian> alright
02:15:39 <Zarutian> the datapart is counted in 8 bit bytes?
02:15:39 <zzo38> (I don't know why it uses PDP-endian, but it does.)
02:15:52 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes.
02:19:29 <Zarutian> so, the name can contain full relative paths in the archive?
02:20:54 <zzo38> Zarutian: It can, although normally it is a single DOS filename (but it can be longer if needed).
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02:42:34 <oerjan> ^ord Ø
02:42:34 <fungot> 195 152
02:42:36 <oerjan> heh
02:43:00 <oerjan> i can save 2 bytes by using "Ø" instead of "\128"
02:43:39 <oerjan> (Ø being the cutest letter to use)
02:45:01 <oerjan> oh, vim shows byte and character count separately when they differ
02:48:01 <pikhq> Seems reasonable.
02:48:13 <pikhq> \oren\: Of all the things.
02:48:49 <pikhq> zzo38: Any reason for PDP-endian other than humor?
02:51:11 <zzo38> pikhq: I don't know; I didn't invent it.
02:51:23 <pikhq> I realized shortly after asking.
02:52:36 <pikhq> It looks like the format was designed by a 14 year old, which leads me to believe that the humor value was the primary reason.
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04:10:40 <hppavilion1> I really want a way to make my mouse use polar coordinates instead of normal Cartesian ones
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05:58:03 <oerjan> wow, i had discarded that "Ø" for something simpler of the same length, but now I can make something _else_ shorter by putting it back...
05:58:26 <oerjan> oh wait stupid unicode
05:58:35 <oerjan> it only saves a character, not a byte
05:59:25 <oerjan> (and i'm at 101)
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06:40:35 <oerjan> `? football
06:40:39 <HackEgo> A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies.
06:52:39 <zzo38> If you make a Chaingate where the f is one step of a Underload program, then the resulting Chaingate-Underload is a superset of Underload, I think?
06:57:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51205 * Jfb * (+2566) Created page
06:58:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51206&oldid=51114 * Jfb * (+67) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
06:59:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51207&oldid=51205 * Jfb * (-51)
07:00:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Beefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51208 * Jfb * (+74) redirect
07:00:59 <shachaf> int-e: OK, I got past the mountain king.
07:03:59 <oerjan> zzo38: hm good point
07:04:26 <oerjan> that makes Chaingate trivially TC
07:06:34 <oerjan> @tell ais523 zzo38 points out that if your f implements the state transitions of a programming language, then Chaingate is obviously a superset of it.
07:06:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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08:17:50 <oerjan> `? b_jonas
08:17:53 <HackEgo> b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek.
08:18:03 <oerjan> oh right
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09:25:13 <rdococ> wth
09:25:18 <rdococ> Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script?
09:26:07 <rdococ> what we really need is
09:26:27 <rdococ> Brainfuck, but at every - the interpreter goes faster
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09:33:21 <int-e> shachaf: did you find the credits?
09:34:30 <shachaf> int-e: You mean the audio in the secret area?
09:35:10 <int-e> yes
09:35:17 <shachaf> Yes.
09:35:41 <shachaf> Did you get there via restart after the normal ending, or the other method?
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09:36:16 <int-e> the other method
09:36:41 <int-e> the normal ending is too Zen for me, I don't like it :P
09:37:10 <shachaf> Ah, so you defeated the mountain king too.
09:37:25 <int-e> no I did not? hmmmm.
09:37:42 <int-e> maybe there's more.
09:37:54 <int-e> anyway, not going to boot into windows today
09:38:12 <shachaf> To get to the secret area gur tngr arrqf gb or pybfrq.
09:38:46 <int-e> yes. but you don't need to defeat the mountain king to do that.
09:38:54 <shachaf> Right, you can restart instead.
09:38:59 <int-e> nor restart
09:39:28 <shachaf> Then how? I only found the method to get to that state after finishing the challenge.
09:39:42 <shachaf> Maybe I just didn't look carefully enough?
09:40:03 <int-e> lbh whfg jnyx ol gur tenzzbcubar gb gur pbqr
09:40:14 <shachaf> Oh.
09:40:22 <shachaf> I didn't notice that there was a path there until I finished it.
09:40:35 <shachaf> I figured it only opened later.
09:40:51 <shachaf> OK then.
09:41:21 <shachaf> So you get much less for finishing it than I thought.
09:41:57 <int-e> I'm still missing a cinema code, hmm
09:42:08 <shachaf> You get one when you finish it.
09:42:15 <int-e> okay.
09:43:00 <shachaf> But it's an hour long or something? I didn't watch it.
09:43:30 <rdococ> I need to come up with a new paradigm
09:43:53 <int-e> did you figure out that you can jump through the movies?
09:44:26 <shachaf> Through the screen?
09:44:45 <shachaf> I didn't realize that. I saw that you can see from behind the screen.
09:44:54 <int-e> no, not through the screen
09:45:19 <int-e> I mean, if there's a movie 10 minutes loing and you want to start at the 5th, that's possible.
09:45:43 <shachaf> Oh, that.
09:45:45 <int-e> (and I basically found out about that by accident)
09:45:54 <int-e> (though it made perfect sense afterwards)
09:45:55 <shachaf> Yes, if you use the controls on the left.
09:46:25 <shachaf> Does it make perfect sense? I think those are the only "puzzles" in the game that let you terminate mid-line.
09:46:42 <shachaf> (Maybe the boat does too? But I can't think of other examples.)
09:47:12 <int-e> no, you can't terminate the boat in the middle either... that would be convenient sometimes. Well, you can make it stop of course.
09:47:39 <shachaf> The boat has many secrets.
09:48:02 <int-e> it makes perfect sense afterwards because it acts like a scrollbar. It's hard to discover because it doesn't follow the ordinary puzzle logic.
09:48:29 <int-e> The boat got me from +1 to about +10, and I'm not sure I figured everything out, probably missed a few.
09:49:44 <shachaf> You still haven't said what your +1 was.
09:50:02 <int-e> below the desert laser
09:56:26 <int-e> onfvpnyyl vg unq gb or fbzrguvat znqr pbzcyrgryl bhg bs znpuvarel, ahqtvat zr gbjneqf ybbxvat ng gur ynaqfpncr... naq yngre ersyrpgvbaf, gbb.
09:57:58 <int-e> shachaf: btw, when you wrote "The Poochness" was that referring to the dog near the start?
09:58:22 <shachaf> No, I just wrote the word "pooch".
09:58:27 <int-e> (I found that one fairly late)
09:58:29 <shachaf> There's a dog near the start?
09:58:59 <int-e> it's in a (pointless as far as I could see) cul-de-sac
09:59:45 <int-e> fsvo "near"
10:02:22 <shachaf> There are all sorts of bonuses in the beginning area.
10:02:53 <int-e> there are a few that I haven't figured out yet there
10:03:02 <int-e> there's a rather cute one *right* at the start
10:03:10 <shachaf> Yes.
10:04:29 <int-e> somehow, now that I know that there are over a hundred of them, these don't seem much of spoilers anymore, hmm.
10:05:39 <shachaf> My friend is in the mountain and apparently hasn't found a single one yet.
10:06:04 <int-e> I only found one, I just didn't look for them. I focused on puzzles and finding the back entries.
10:07:08 <int-e> but there should be dozens there
10:07:13 <shachaf> My first one was outside the desert building.
10:07:32 <shachaf> Ah, no, I mean, he hasn't found one in the whole game so far.
10:07:39 <int-e> oh.
10:08:03 <shachaf> At least as far as I can surmise without asking spoiler questions.
10:08:05 <int-e> well, I can actually see that happening.
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10:14:19 <int-e> anyway I still wish that game had some sort of story
10:17:52 <int-e> (going beyond "oh this was a long dream and here I am waking up from it")
10:22:27 <rdococ> adsf
10:22:27 <rdococ> asdf
10:22:30 <rdococ> I'm bored
10:22:36 <rdococ> need to come up with a new paradigm
10:24:36 <rdococ> ...
10:24:40 <rdococ> no ideas?
10:25:39 <shachaf> Did you figure out the long rectangular puzzle under the desert without brute force?
10:27:05 <rdococ> yay
10:28:11 <int-e> shachaf: two levels underground on the way to the laser?
10:28:35 <int-e> or is that three, hmm.
10:30:23 <int-e> (I'm not sure how long "long" is. What I have in mind is 3 rows, 8 columns or so)
10:30:35 <int-e> (if that's the one, I didn't use brute force there)
10:31:14 <shachaf> I think I used brute force for one side of it.
10:34:26 <rdococ> ...
10:35:00 <int-e> rdococ: "Think of a new paradigm" really isn't how this works. Paradigm shifts are usually achieved in small incremental steps, or by some brilliant insight into connecting two seemingly unrelated ideas.
10:35:21 <rdococ> probably.
10:35:27 <rdococ> but who cares, I've always made no sense.
10:35:38 <int-e> oh that was deliberate.
10:35:42 <int-e> good job, carry on.
10:46:46 <rdococ> ⇒⇒
10:48:15 <int-e> grrrr. https://www.utwente.nl/en/news/!/2017/3/313543/electronic-energy-meters-false-readings-almost-six-times-higher-than-actual-energy-consumption ... where is the link to the actual study so that I can find out which work load caused that 582% error?
10:49:00 <int-e> (I mean I'm used to "journalists" not linking to their sources but this is a university website. sigh.)
10:50:43 <int-e> (actually they do give the publisher and title of the study. why no electronic link though... is it accepted for publication, but not yet online?)
10:51:58 <shachaf> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170303180139.htm has an electronic link.
10:52:10 <shachaf> If you want to purchase the document.
11:00:56 <int-e> thanks, university has a subscription.
11:08:24 <rdococ> does the 'unless' phrase have a character like 'therefore' does?
11:11:25 <int-e> . o O ( The blue color of the sky is a result of scattered sunlight. Therefore, unless we assume that the sun is shining, the sky will not be blue. )
11:13:47 <int-e> The two words don't behave the same way at all.
11:19:08 <rdococ> meh
11:19:32 <rdococ> what about an assumption?
11:19:48 <int-e> so the nasty workload seems to be a dimmed (pulse-modulated) LED with the dimmer triggered at 75% of each half period; they have a huge spike in drawn current at that point, decreasing very quickly.
11:20:41 <int-e> rdococ: you're just asking that for sake of asking a question, aren't you.
11:21:01 <rdococ> ...
11:21:05 <rdococ> no
11:21:18 <rdococ> I am trying out syntax for a new, crappier language
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12:24:09 <rdococ> \zxc
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12:39:42 <rdococ> hm
12:40:22 <rdococ> x is a lambda expression. \a.x is a lambda expression if x is one.
12:40:24 <rdococ> I think.
12:40:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag.png]]"
12:41:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag pass.png]]"
12:41:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag fail.png]]"
12:41:49 <rdococ> hm
12:47:06 <rdococ> then what would be a creative syntax for it
12:47:25 <rdococ> \\1 could mean \x.(\y.y)...
12:47:30 <rdococ> no
12:47:35 <rdococ> s/\y.y/\y.x/
12:47:52 <rdococ> but then what about application
12:47:56 <rdococ> xy is one too...
12:47:58 <rdococ> uwrhg
12:48:36 <rdococ> \\/ // -> \xy.xy?
12:48:48 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index is related
12:49:03 <rdococ> ah
12:49:23 <int-e> (but you seem to have decided to number from the outside... that's a difference)
12:49:36 <rdococ> yeah
12:49:40 <rdococ> hm
12:49:49 <rdococ> I could go with inside
12:50:22 <rdococ> but if you replace the numbers with unary slashes
12:50:29 <rdococ> \\// / -> \xy.xy
12:50:43 <int-e> de Bruijn indices also feature in Tromp's binary lambda calculus. https://tromp.github.io/cl/cl.html
12:50:46 <rdococ> or \x.(\y.xy) which I think shows how the idea works more
12:50:55 <rdococ> donald tromp
12:52:10 <rdococ> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bruijndejx seems to exist
12:53:46 <rdococ> hm
12:54:11 <rdococ> if 1 is a number that takes x and y and returns xy (as 2 would return xyy)...
12:54:15 <rdococ> would that work?
12:54:29 <rdococ> then 0 would return x and would be true... you could do it the other way round and do yx for 1, making it yxx for 2
12:55:10 <rdococ> wait
12:55:17 <rdococ> Kxy = x. doesn't this make K true?
12:55:53 <int-e> yes, K is true; KI is false.
12:55:59 <rdococ> hm
12:56:00 <rdococ> k
12:56:27 <rdococ> wait
12:56:39 <rdococ> Ix = x, right?
12:56:54 <rdococ> or am I missing something?
12:57:01 <int-e> that number representation would be quite awkward to work with, though perhaps not impossible.
12:57:32 <rdococ> so...
12:57:45 <rdococ> wait
12:57:46 <rdococ> what
12:57:49 <rdococ> so KIxy = y?
12:57:59 <int-e> yes.
12:58:14 <rdococ> is it K(Ix)y? or (KI)xy?
12:58:17 <rdococ> or are they the same?
12:58:22 <int-e> (((KI)x)y)
12:58:25 <rdococ> no I doubt they're the same...
12:58:27 <rdococ> hm
12:58:28 <rdococ> so wait
12:58:58 <rdococ> (((KI)x)y)... so KI takes an argument x and returns I, and then it becomes Iy... oh god that's clever
13:03:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag unfolded.png]]"
13:08:24 <int-e> Okay, yes, that number format can be used in principle, though I really wouldn't want to. \n x y. n (\t. t y) x converts Church numerals into that format; \q f x. q ((\a. a a) (\a n t. t n (a a (f n))) x) (\x y.y) (\x y.x) converts them back to Church numerals.
13:08:59 <rdococ> honestly I'm out of ideas
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13:09:57 <int-e> (coming up with the latter was a nice puzzle really)
13:10:39 <rdococ> what would I call that slashy language then?
13:10:56 <int-e> grass
13:11:07 <rdococ> doesn't that already exist?
13:11:42 <rdococ> hm
13:11:57 <rdococ> what I'd really like is some way to incorporate lambda-like functionality into bf
13:12:29 <rdococ> wait
13:12:31 <rdococ> I have an idea
13:12:49 <rdococ> granted it's a bf derivative idea but it's not a noob one
13:14:14 <int-e> Oh, this is a better way to convert to Church numerals: \q f x. q (\h. h x) (\n h. h (f n)) (\n. n)
13:15:14 <rdococ> hm
13:15:40 <int-e> Grass exists. Lawn doesn't.
13:15:53 <rdococ> Lawn has a w in it so Grass should have been called Lawn
13:17:22 <int-e> (in any case it's a visual idea... \|/ are grass leaves leaning left, not at all, and right, respectively.
13:17:25 <int-e> )
13:18:12 <rdococ> \\//|/
13:20:49 <rdococ> agh
13:20:56 <rdococ> how would I put lambda calculus into bf
13:25:15 <rdococ> when a lambda expression is applied, you could shift all the cells to the right and place the application in the leftmost
13:33:20 <rdococ> meh..
13:33:26 <rdococ> what I need is a stack
13:33:30 <rdococ> no
13:33:31 <rdococ> what I need
13:33:32 <rdococ> idk
13:41:31 <rdococ> well
13:44:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51213&oldid=51167 * Jafetish * (+4395) computational class
13:47:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51214&oldid=51213 * Jafetish * (+30) /* Computational class */
13:51:13 <Jafet> @tell oerjan I think this works: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Trajedy#Computational_class
13:51:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:58:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51215&oldid=51214 * Jafetish * (+104) /* Computational class */
14:00:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51216&oldid=51215 * Jafetish * (+21) /* Notes */
14:16:16 <rdococ> hm
14:17:54 -!- int-e has set topic: The exact ray tracing channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
14:18:27 <Jafet> on the topic of paradigms, I can't quite find any related languages to Trajedy to link to
14:18:55 <int-e> povray ;)
14:19:53 <int-e> though tbf the beacons are not very realistic as optical devices
14:21:23 <Jafet> I did think of ray tracing, but it sounded too “interesting” to make into a language
14:21:38 <Jafet> I think snell's law already gives you transcendental equations
14:21:49 <rdococ> ray tracing?
14:22:20 <int-e> trajedy has ray tracing elements
14:22:29 <rdococ> agreed
14:23:01 <Jafet> specular reflection should be computable with sqrt field extensions, though
14:29:47 <rdococ> well
14:29:48 <rdococ> I'm bored
14:30:14 <rdococ> what about a function-oriented programming language
14:42:04 <Jafet> another unexplored area seems to be fluid dynamics
14:44:00 <rdococ> borororor
14:44:16 <Jafet> that might get dangerously non-esoteric though, I think terry tao has done some Serious Research™ on whether undecidable fluidics can exist in a navier-stokes system
14:44:51 <Jafet> (https://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/navier-stokes-fluid-computers/)
14:45:15 <rdococ> aze
14:45:18 <Jafet> ok, he only discussed the possibility. but it must have been discussed Seriously.
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15:20:41 <rdococ> agrh
15:20:43 <rdococ> I need moar idaes
15:22:35 <int-e> read some books
15:23:32 <rdococ> nu
15:25:41 <rdococ> I am really bored
15:28:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51217 * Rdococ * (+144) Created page with "== Doesn't the Bee Movie Script have . and ,? == What happens here? ~~~~"
15:30:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51218&oldid=51217 * Rdococ * (+111) /* Doesn't the Bee Movie Script have . and ,? */
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15:31:36 <rdococ> DHeadshot!
15:32:31 <DHeadshot> rdococ!
15:33:54 <rdococ> boroed
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15:40:06 <rdococ> I'm bored.
15:40:08 <rdococ> BOred !
15:40:09 <rdococ> Bored.
15:42:49 <rdococ> ya aya ay aya aya aaaaya ayaya.
15:45:09 <rdococ> what about a language with real numbers
15:47:52 <rdococ> YAY!
16:02:14 <DHeadshot> Do you know anything about X11 programming? Specifically, how to load in a TrueType Font?
16:09:44 <Jafet> presumably documentation exists for xft?
16:17:43 <int-e> Jafet: is the "nearest matching beacon" with respect to the position where the ray enters the beacon, or the beacon being entered?
16:19:01 <Jafet> it's the beacon that has the nearest point to the current pointer position
16:19:13 <int-e> okay.
16:19:17 <Jafet> I don't know which of those you mean, but that is it
16:20:06 <int-e> So one could do a comparison like this http://sprunge.us/BjPP
16:20:56 <Jafet> yes, that would work
16:21:53 <Jafet> maybe some of the examples could be simplified with that, in fact
16:22:49 <Jafet> well, the bit extraction for the reverse-cat could use that, but I don't think it gives a simpler program
16:24:04 <int-e> I'm really just trying to understand the semantics for now
16:24:48 <int-e> if I have -->BB, then the ray enters the left B, moves to horizontally to the right B; what happens then?
16:24:56 <rdococ> I'd like to create a language with time travel but I fear I'll just be copying TwoDucks :/
16:25:32 <int-e> (I expect a division by zero)
16:25:36 <Jafet> it then turns back towards the first B
16:25:45 <Jafet> see #Infinitesimals which covers this case
16:27:18 <int-e> hmm, I guess
16:27:38 <Jafet> the solution (keeping track of which side of a zero-width boundary you're on) is a bit ugly, but I don't think it matters because any program that encounters this just loops forever
16:29:02 <lifthrasiir> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13796256 seems that Aheui is trending in the HN now, 12 years after its initial publication
16:33:50 <Jafet> sadly, this browser still displays boxes after 12 years
16:34:31 <Jafet> I should probably install a hangul font here
16:34:36 <lifthrasiir> grab Noto Sans
16:34:49 <Jafet> or an all-purpose font, sure
16:35:22 <Jafet> I wonder how \oren\'s compares
16:36:11 <rdococ> boroed.
16:39:41 <rdococ> What could a halting oracle be used to do?
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16:47:14 <wob_jonas> In M:tG, how does casting a spell without paying its mana cost work? If there's an X in the cost, you have to set that to zero. But how does casting Sprout Swarm without paying the mana cost work? Can you choose to buyback, and if so, can you convoke to pay for the buyback cost?
16:47:42 <wob_jonas> With the new convoke rules that is, not the old one.
17:02:30 <wob_jonas> Yes, I think you can do that.
17:04:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - beacon rules.png]]"
17:05:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51220&oldid=51216 * Jafetish * (+228) /* Normal mode */ diagram for beacon rules
17:06:01 <Jafet> (thint-e)
17:06:56 <rdococ> I honestly don't think the TwoDucks halting oracle would work/
17:08:28 <rdococ> I mean, eventually the machine will be switched off, or break, or explode, or succumb to the ever-increasing entropy of the universe, meaning that a function doesn't have to loop forever to be classified as non-halting, it just has to take long enough for the machine to die.
17:08:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51221&oldid=51220 * Jafetish * (+58) /* Semantics */
17:11:46 <rdococ> then again
17:12:01 <rdococ> an abstract implementation doesn't care about the entropy of the universe
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17:32:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51222&oldid=46028 * Angrykoala * (+82)
17:34:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51223&oldid=51195 * Angrykoala * (-15) removed codefuck duplicate
17:35:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51224&oldid=51223 * Angrykoala * (+18) Added chuckscript language
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17:37:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51225&oldid=51221 * Jafetish * (+2333) /* Notes */ notes on unconstrained zigzags
17:58:15 <wob_jonas> `recipe
17:58:16 <HackEgo> to 10 minutes or until cheese is evaporated. \ Blend the beans and seasonings. Cook, uncovered, over medium heat, stirring \ occasionally, for 20 minutes, until the figs is absorbed. Store in a \ high flavors of the meat mixture, and cover with a size of the \ egg mixture. Serve the sugar canned cheese with salt and pepper. Place \ the flour a
17:58:37 <wob_jonas> lol
17:59:06 <wob_jonas> ok
17:59:16 <rdococ> hm
17:59:29 <rdococ> Should I create a language with time travel _and_ a halting oracle?
17:59:36 <rdococ> hm
18:17:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ChuckScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51226&oldid=51204 * Angrykoala * (+316)
18:18:37 <zzo38> Maybe you should try
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18:25:36 <int-e> Jafet: I don't think your zigzag device works as advertised: http://sprunge.us/TjgN
18:26:20 <int-e> Jafet: but I also have little doubt that such a divisibility device can be built, it's just a bit harder
18:27:11 <int-e> nice visual interpreter btw.
18:32:39 <rdococ> hm
18:32:43 <rdococ> How fast is a halting oracle?
18:34:40 <int-e> (though I'm missing a "reload" button)
18:36:24 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I think the answer to both is yes (about the M:tG)
18:37:18 <wob_jonas> zzo38: thanks
18:38:01 <wob_jonas> int-e: try control-R or F5
18:39:16 <rdococ> hm
18:39:46 <rdococ> a fast halting oracle could be very useful
18:42:00 <int-e> wob_jonas: why on Earth would that work
19:01:35 <wob_jonas> int-e: sorry, I was just replying out of context to the reload button thing
19:06:54 <DHeadshot> anyone know why XftColorAllocValue causes a segfault?
19:10:23 <DHeadshot> Wait, solved it!
19:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51227 * Rdococ * (+1311) Not to be confused with Oracle, that company who I think owns Java. Or was it Sun?
19:31:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51228&oldid=51227 * Rdococ * (+206)
19:41:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51229&oldid=51228 * Rdococ * (+2) Minor syntactical fix
19:42:17 <rdococ> Anyone gonna take a look?
19:43:09 <rdococ> zxcv
19:43:31 <wob_jonas> a look at what?
19:51:18 <\oren\> what should I add to my font today?
19:52:33 <rdococ> at Oracle
19:52:39 <rdococ> my new, even crappier language
19:53:22 <\oren\> I guess I should add more kanji... there are 466 joyo kanji left
19:59:40 <wob_jonas> \oren\: check if you have all the kanji necessary for Shogi moves notation
20:00:21 <wob_jonas> some of them are quite obscure and rarely appear in other context
20:00:39 <wob_jonas> you added one yesterday but I'm not sure if there isn't more left
20:01:10 <rdococ> gtg
20:01:15 <rdococ> well
20:01:17 <rdococ> not right yet
20:01:18 <rdococ> but soon
20:01:32 <wob_jonas> \oren\: also, those accented latin and cyrillic letters I mentioned that don't have a precomposed character in unicode
20:04:11 <rdococ> gtg now
20:11:48 <\oren\> let's see: 將 isn't a joyo kanji
20:12:22 <pikhq> I don't think it's even jinmeiyou.
20:12:51 <pikhq> Oh, it is.
20:13:37 <\oren\> 香 is joyo tho
20:13:49 <pikhq> Yeah, that's not uncommon.
20:14:06 <\oren\> those are the only ones left (by a cursory scan)
20:14:37 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogi < on this page. maybe I should check the japanese wiki page for others
20:15:09 <pikhq> That article looks comprehensive for the notation at least.
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20:43:56 <Perenelle> -[--->+<]>------.>--[----->+<]>-.+++++++++++++.--------.---------.+++++++++++++.-[->+++++<]>-.-[--->++<]>-.++++++++++.+[---->+<]>+++.+[----->+<]>.--[--->+<]>.-[---->+<]>++.+[->+++<]>+.---.+++.
20:43:59 <Perenelle> Mmm
20:44:13 <Perenelle> I learned brainfuck just to say that
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21:01:52 <Taneb> That certainly looks like a brainfuck program. Then again, so does this
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21:29:35 <int-e> Jafet: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/zigzag.html :)
21:29:55 <int-e> and this is enough for a minsky counter machine
21:30:19 <int-e> (fractran, too, but that's actually a bit more awkward)
21:32:48 <int-e> for the minsky counter machine with three counters, represent a counters by 1/(3^a5^b7^c11); to check whether a counter is 0, multiply by the corresponding prime and then check whether the new numerator is 1 (--> nonzero) or equal to that prime (--> zero)
21:33:21 <int-e> the 1/11 factor takes care of the 0 < x <= 1/5 precondition of that gadget.
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21:38:05 <int-e> (the tricky part is to turn the ray by 45 degrees, though it's quite possible that my way isn't the best)
21:44:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51230&oldid=51218 * Ais523 * (+870) /* Cheating */ new section
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22:02:23 <Perenelle> -[------->+<]>--.[--->+<]>++.-----------.-[--->+<]>-.-[--->++<]>-.++++++++++.+[---->+<]>+++.+[->+++<]>+.+.----.+++. Mhmm
22:06:39 <int-e> Jafet: Oh I guess we were also missing this: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/merge.html
22:10:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zigzag with preprocessing.png]]"
22:11:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - merge.png]]"
22:24:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - zigzag with preprocessing.png]]"
22:31:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51234&oldid=51225 * Int-e * (+1478) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ rewrite
22:33:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - merge.png]]"
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22:39:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - merge.png]]"
22:40:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51237 * Int-e * (+228) Created page with "Yet another merge device: {| | [ ]Q[ ] L R \/ \/ \ L Q R | [[File:Trajedy - merge.png]] |} ~~~~"
22:45:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51238&oldid=51234 * Int-e * (+98) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */
22:55:44 <shachaf> copumpkin: yopumpkin
22:55:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51239&oldid=51238 * Int-e * (+232) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ recover Fractran reduction
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23:06:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51240&oldid=51239 * Int-e * (+25) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ fix prime choice
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23:12:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51241&oldid=51237 * Int-e * (+117)
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23:18:19 <int-e> hum, was I wrong...
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23:29:49 <Jafet> <int-e> http://sprunge.us/TjgN -- is that meant to be a counterexample?
23:31:09 <Jafet> it seems to be working with the given input (namely 1/5)
23:34:31 <int-e> Jafet: It's all my mistake, your gadget actually works, but I misinterpreted what your interpreter did... let me clean up the mess.
23:37:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51242&oldid=51240 * Int-e * (-1833) undoing my changes, because the original gadget actually, amazingly, works
23:37:22 <Jafet> that's fine then, it doesn't hurt to have more fractran reductions
23:38:07 <Jafet> I was actually looking for a way to enter the zigzag on a corner, like in your gadget, but I didn't know it would entail p-1 output ports
23:38:50 <Jafet> it's probably easier to prove correct from a corner start, but the gadget looks messier
23:41:45 <int-e> hmm. but I haven't yet figured out whether it reliably departs from a corner when the number is not a reciprocal. it actually looks like it should get stuck between the mirrors for some values.
23:42:09 <int-e> (imagining the mirrors to be extended to infinity)
23:42:54 <Jafet> I think you can prove that from the unfolded diagram (https://esolangs.org/wiki/File:Trajedy_-_zig-zag_unfolded.png)
23:43:20 <Jafet> the mirrors in that diagram would be extended to infinity on the right
23:44:33 <Jafet> then if x=p/q, it should reach the corner of the k-th mirror to the right when kp/q is an integer
23:45:30 <Jafet> (the bit that I'm not sure about is whether it is guaranteed to never escape before the first such k)
23:45:31 <zzo38> A PC text screen could be stored in a file with no header, with a BSAVE header, or with a MZM header. MZM file can be board-mode or layer-mode, but board-mode is not useful outside of MegaZeux, so instead can describe layer-mode. The header consists of the four ASCII characters "MZM2", two small-endian 16-bit numbers giving width and height, followed by the eight bytes 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00.
23:48:54 <Jafet> er, kq/p
23:49:19 <int-e> Jafet: yes, it can get stuck. http://sprunge.us/FYYg
23:51:25 <Jafet> oops
23:51:27 <int-e> So what I did has merit after all, but I was looking for the wrong kind of issue.
23:52:00 <int-e> so I'll just redo my changes?
23:52:34 <int-e> it's still amazing to me that your gadget *does* hit that corner for all 1/n.
23:52:45 <Jafet> I wonder what other resonances exist
23:53:30 <Jafet> (if there are only a few resonances, there is still some hope of avoiding them in the first place)
23:59:53 <Jafet> as it turns out, infinitely many of them (just pick another corner point within the chamber and draw a path to the first one)
23:59:55 <int-e> Here's what I have, mathematically: if x/(6-x) equals 1/(6k+5) then we hit the corner. If x/(6-x) = p/(3q) in lowest terms then I think that'll cause a resonance... so whenever x = 6p/(3q+p)
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