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00:28:47 <lambdabot> PAMR 272253Z 00000KT 10SM BKN065 BKN090 M01/M11 A2941 RMK AO2 SLP960 T10061111
00:31:42 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: you gotten under \oren\'s shell? (I am infereing from tectonics -> an tectomy having similiar origin with 'plates')
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00:32:31 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: PAMR is within spitting distance of my house.
00:32:47 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Hm, maybe there should be medicinal roots for computers
00:33:20 <hppavilion[1]> (I mean, obviously not really medicinal, but still
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00:44:36 <hppavilion[1]> Ad hoc modification to a local library to make it work which does not apply to other installations
00:50:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51462&oldid=51461 * Oerjan * (+1164) More groups and some infinite babbling
00:53:06 * oerjan fake group theory expert
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00:57:34 <fizzie> Now is that fake (group theory), or (fake group) theory?
00:58:01 <fizzie> I guess I should've included the 'expert' bit in there as well.
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00:58:49 <fizzie> Could be a fake ((group theory) expert), a (fake (group theory)) expert or a ((fake group) theory) expert.
01:00:07 <Jafet> they're × all × equivalent × hth
01:01:27 <oerjan> up to natural equivalence only
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01:53:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tangle bracket language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51463&oldid=44677 * Hppavilion1 * (+598) Updated page; hopefully it explains the subject matter better.
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02:42:29 <tswett_to_go> I've decided that from now on, I'm going to speak primarily in noun phrases.
02:43:25 <tswett_to_go> Type systems. Dependent typing. Formal systems. Category theory.
02:44:30 <tswett_to_go> Procrastination. Programming. Database query language. Databases.
02:44:45 <tswett_to_go> The various relationships between databases and category theory.
02:47:53 <tswett_to_go> The thought, "Look, I can just cheat by sticking an entire sentence inside of a noun phrase."
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03:55:06 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Did you make a bot that emulates you when you aren't around
04:06:34 <HackEgo> cat: insanity: No such file or directory
04:06:52 <HackEgo> Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entity.
04:08:58 <oerjan> `# You are just imagining this typo, too//`slwd insanity//s,it,r,
04:08:59 <HackEgo> insanity//Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entry.
04:12:28 <tswett_to_go> [[Noncommutative government of Australia]] and [[Alabama]] and [[Characters of Alabama]] and [[American Samoa]] and [[Alabama]] and [[Alabama American Australia | align="right"
04:12:42 <tswett_to_go> My favorite country is definitely Alabama American Australia.
04:20:42 <rdococ> Asstec civilization :P
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04:54:48 <doesthiswork> so I was thinking about negative concord vs double negation and I thought of a half negation
04:55:20 <doesthiswork> so to negate a sentence you have to stick in two half negations
04:55:58 <doesthiswork> I got it working but it requires four value logic
04:56:52 <doesthiswork> so that a sentence's true and its falsity can be independent of each other.
04:58:16 <doesthiswork> a half negation can work be exchanging the truth and falsity of a sentence and then negating the falsity
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04:59:14 <doesthiswork> so two in a row just negate both truth and falsity and leave them in their original places
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05:02:48 <doesthiswork> I was inspired by the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do"
05:06:39 <rdococ> quantum computing has that
05:10:20 <rdococ> anyway, we all know that four wrongs make an up
05:11:07 <tswett_to_go> What's the square root of the matrix [[0,1][1,0]]?
05:11:10 <rdococ> (and two ups makes a reverse)
05:11:12 <doesthiswork> Quantum computing probably does, since they talk about rotating qbits
05:11:50 <rdococ> tswett_to_go: depends what you're multiplying it with. but seeing it's a reverse identity matrix, I guess that's obvious
05:12:05 <rdococ> well, it might depend. might not.
05:12:48 <tswett_to_go> Wolfie says it's [[1,-i][-i,1]] times a constant.
05:14:26 <tswett_to_go> (1+i)/2 * (|0⟩⟨0| - i |0⟩⟨1| - i |1⟩⟨0| + |1⟩⟨1|)
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06:08:06 <hppavilion[1]> tswett_to_go: Better question: what's 2^[[0,1][1,0]]
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09:48:39 <Taneb> 2^x = e^(x*ln 2), right? And matrix exponentials are well-defined
09:48:50 <Taneb> So I guess one can work out 2^[[0,1][1,0]]
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11:50:06 <HackEgo> john//John is not Hziulquoigmnzhah of Cykranosh, the dread spawn of Cxaxukluth, according to http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4072
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12:50:31 <b_jonas> argh. ok, so some googling says that what I found is a genuine bug,
12:51:00 <b_jonas> where the debian kernel was upgraded without increasing its version number, which means it's *supposed* to have the same abi for modules, but actually doesn't,
12:51:17 <b_jonas> so indeed my older kernel doesn't match the newer modules, even if they have the same version number.
12:52:11 <b_jonas> I'll have to work this around in some way to run the newer kernel.
12:52:24 <b_jonas> I didn't even know they update kernel images without increasing the version number
12:52:45 <b_jonas> I should have suspected, because they so rarely increment the version number, but I did ask about that and they said they don't do that
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14:36:21 <uczy> What is the fastest way to bootstrap from an extremely simple esolang to a high level language VM?
14:38:10 <uczy> Something like https://esolangs.org/wiki/BytePusher
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14:53:57 <uczy> If I can compile C code to a series of mov instructions (https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator) then the reverse use case should also be possible
15:00:51 <Zarutian> uczy: write an Forth inner interpreter in that esolang. Run something likse scheme.fs ontop and I think that the goal will have been met.
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15:16:02 <uczy> b_jonas: You'll hate BitBitJump even more
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17:10:31 <oerjan> <Taneb> 2^x = e^(x*ln 2), right? And matrix exponentials are well-defined <-- afair you can apply any function that is holomorphic on the matrix's spectrum, in this case {-1,+1}. And since it's unitary you can extend that to continuous functions... well for matrices the spectrum is finite, so i guess that's all functions.
17:11:52 <oerjan> hm for the first part, it might need to be holomorphic in an open connected set containing the spectrum, or something. (a disk is certainly enough, then you have power series.)
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17:12:44 <oerjan> (i think which connected set you choose might actually matter if there are branch cuts involved)
17:15:09 <oerjan> (hm, an annulus would give a laurent series)
17:15:21 <int-e> spectrum = set of eigenvalues?
17:16:02 <int-e> (it's funny, I knew about "spectral radius" but I don't think I've seen "spectrum")
17:17:20 <oerjan> it's a more subtle concept in infinite-dimensional banach algebras, where you define it as the set of l such that lI - A is invertible.
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17:18:33 <oerjan> and it's not necessarily finite, but always compact.
17:19:12 <int-e> lI <-- that's evil.
17:19:29 <int-e> but shouldn't it be "not invertible"?
17:20:34 <int-e> I like my linear algebra finite-dimensional and discrete. finite base fields are perfect.
17:20:54 <oerjan> OKAY. that's good, i was wondering if i was telling you things you already knew.
17:20:55 <int-e> (though obviously I'm not using spectral radii there)
17:21:21 <int-e> finite fields are slightly unordered.
17:21:51 <oerjan> hm _someone's_ bound to have investigated this stuff with p-adics
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17:23:05 <int-e> I think I like "disorderly", at least for this channel.
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17:25:18 <HackEgo> U+039B GREEK CAPITAL LETTER LAMDA \ UTF-8: ce 9b UTF-16BE: 039b Decimal: Λ \ Λ (λ) \ Lowercase: U+03BB \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+03BB GREEK SMALL LETTER LAMDA \ UTF-8: ce bb UTF-16BE: 03bb Decimal: λ \ λ (Λ) \ Uppercase: U+039B \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \
17:26:18 <oerjan> the eigenvalue stuff might still work for finite fields, maybe? determinants work for all commutative rings.
17:26:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Btzy * New user account
17:27:04 <oerjan> anyway, the l was supposed to be a lambda, but i was lazy.
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17:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, the Clavinova I'm using has 5 buttons to switch instruments
17:39:18 <hppavilion[1]> 4 of the instruments are familiar, at least somewhat: Piano, Electric Piano, Harpsicord, and Pipe Organ
17:39:29 <hppavilion[1]> But one of them is "Clavitone", which AFAICT isn't a real instrument.
17:41:42 <fizzie> A clavichord is, though.
17:44:03 <fizzie> GM1 instrument 8 is officially called just "Clavi", but apparently it's short for Clavinet, which is a kind of clavichord.
17:44:57 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: I noticed it actually just says "Clavi. Chord"
17:45:23 <hppavilion[1]> But there's a line break and the period is REALLY light; my brain skipped it because I thought it was just a speck of dust.
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17:59:38 <int-e> oerjan: I didn't mind the use of l, I just had trouble distinguishing it from the I.
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18:00:47 <oerjan> i could have used l1 :P
18:01:10 <oerjan> it's a perfectly servicably multiplicative unit, after all
18:02:03 <int-e> . o O ( eI - A <-- let's just pick "e" for "eigenvalue" *runs* )
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18:02:38 <hppavilion[1]> My 5 autohotkey scripts formed a glider in the tray.
18:02:38 <int-e> . o O ( It's a natural choice! )
18:02:41 <rdococ> now I need ideas for a new data type. again. :/
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18:03:37 <rdococ> Square root of an integral!
18:03:40 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Oh, no. Intervals as in a range of real numbers
18:04:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ⟨0 → 1⟩ is every real number from 0 to 1 inclusive
18:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: You might have seen it written the peasant way, as [0, 1]
18:05:13 <rdococ> Oh, I prefer (1 from 0). Now it's an intercal. :P
18:05:44 <shachaf> Is that supposed to express an orientation?
18:06:41 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: rdococ's notation with it backwards? Not sure.
18:06:58 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> It must be a sign. <-- "get a life", he said, hypocritically.
18:06:59 <shachaf> Certainly your manifolds need an orientation.
18:07:57 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I had a life, but I sold it in exchange for someone's soul so I could trade the soul to a nice man I met at the crossroads
18:11:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: But intervals are an interesting data type that should be used more; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_arithmetic
18:13:25 <rdococ> You would have to use "x but y" in place of "x and y" if y doesn't like x very much.
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18:23:12 <rdococ> partially settish arrays?
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18:28:38 <rdococ> {1=a, 2=b, 3=b, c=true}
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20:24:01 <hppavilion[1]> ...well, I just accidentally identified with Nickserv using ` instead of /
20:24:14 <hppavilion[1]> So I sent my password to HackEgo in PM. Do I need to change it now?
20:25:09 <HackEgo> cat: bin/msg: No such file or directory
20:25:39 <shachaf> Please keep your HackEgo accidental password typing to the public channel in the future.
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20:48:06 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: I believe it does get logged into a file, so from that point of view, maybe.
20:48:48 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: OK, I think I still have a couple other things with that password.
20:53:11 <fizzie> 20:53 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Example:
20:53:11 <fizzie> 20:53 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- /msg NickServ SET PASSWORD swordfish
20:53:16 <hppavilion[1]> /msg NickServ SETPASS requires <account>, <key>, and <newpass>. The key is emailed to you before you change your password, but I don't know how to get the key sent
20:53:42 <fizzie> You would use SENDPASS & SETPASS if you had forgotten your existing password.
20:53:52 <fizzie> But since you can identify, you can just use SET PASSWORD.
20:54:07 <fizzie> It's not at all confusing that SETPASS and SET PASSWORD do entirely different things.
21:01:22 <shachaf> Using the same password for lots of things is scow.
21:01:46 <shachaf> Speaking of which, should I generate account passwords from a master password and account name?
21:01:51 <shachaf> If so, how should I do it?
21:02:45 <shachaf> I do it now but I use a bad algorithm.
21:02:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yeah, I'm working on killing all the repeated passwords, because I just got a new password generator
21:03:31 <hppavilion[1]> I do have a convention to generate 20+n character passwords, where n is some easy-to-remember string related to the site (such as its name)
21:03:59 <shachaf> n is a string or a number?
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21:07:21 <\oren\> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7BlMNqWsAIV4o3.jpg:large
21:07:33 <\oren\> europe according to erdogan
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21:28:15 <\oren\> I prefer the notation {x;0≤x≤1}
21:28:37 <\oren\> makes it perfectly clear what it is
21:31:33 <\oren\> or you could define it externally: let A be the smallest closed, connected subset of ℝ containing both 1 and 0.
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21:46:17 <\oren\> test of skill: grep -r "url_pattern" . | grep -v "\.js" > wtf.txt
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21:47:07 <\oren\> can you tell why this is so wrong?
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22:37:20 <moonythedwarf> I've been thinking about the possibility, that, if you took The Powder Toy and made it have a infinite grid, it would be turing complete. It is already a finite state machine i think, so thats pretty likely (See all the computers in it ;) ) but i was wondering if there was a way for me to get proof
22:40:14 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like a wave with a period of 1 microsecond (μs) should have a frequency of 1 Megahert (1 MHz)
22:40:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51464&oldid=51449 * Orby * (+170) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
22:42:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51465&oldid=51464 * Orby * (+78) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
22:48:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Do you think a Quantity Calculus-based programming language would be interesting?
22:48:34 <hppavilion[1]> I think it would be not only interesting, but potentially-useful.
22:52:06 <Phantom_Hoover> moonythedwarf, well it directly includes wireworld which is TC
22:53:24 <moonythedwarf> mm true, how about if it didnt have wireworld an life? And only used its Circuit syste,.
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22:55:17 <Phantom_Hoover> given the sophistication of the computers people have built in it i guarantee you can build a minsky machine using piston as the register
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23:05:59 -!- boily has set topic: Is it the Future Now? | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
23:06:05 <HackEgo> unlambda//``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci
23:06:27 <boily> . o O ( à cause qu'unlambda est trivial? )
23:06:30 <HackEgo> 1/2:m–rdalsjökull//M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. \ cut elimination//The cut-elimination theorem states that any Prolog program written using the cut operator ! can be rewritten without using that operator. \ imagine//Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on
23:06:34 <HackEgo> 2/2: the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs. \ love//Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more \ diagram//A diagram is just a functor.
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23:07:20 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. FUNGOSTRIL!
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23:19:45 <fungot> boily: no problem, i find there's also stack overflow, the stack height is constant, while just q is not. if anything he's overqualified for the position of a combination of the plt mailing list
23:21:12 <fungot> Zarutian: i think so :) i'm trying to think of a way to increment each one at each subsequent iteration to the values of the right-hand sides of macro definitions and start/ end of line
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23:29:31 <boily> Zarutellon. beetlewax?
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23:32:32 <Zarutian> for the folks wagen owners to let their pride shine
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23:37:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51466 * Orby * (+2709) Created page for Picofuck project
23:38:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51467 * Orby * (+522) Creating talk page
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23:39:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51468&oldid=51466 * Orby * (+30) /* PF languages */
23:41:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51469&oldid=51467 * Orby * (-15) Fixing sloppy grammar :)
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23:46:08 <izabera> so i have half an idea for a video game
23:46:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:the five wisdoms//The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom. \ egobot//EgoBot is my arch-nemesis. \ kanada//Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrugviolation//Violation is the act of playing an
23:46:26 <Zarutian> izabera: lets here it! Is it an Astroid clone isnt it? ;-Þ
23:46:41 <HackEgo> 2/2: instrument in the viola family.
23:47:05 <HackEgo> Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug
23:47:06 <Zarutian> but seriously you tweeked my curiousity
23:47:22 <izabera> Zarutian: you're a blue ball thingy and your opponent is a red ball thingy
23:47:34 <izabera> your initial mass is 100 units
23:47:42 <izabera> you shoot bullets to your opponent
23:47:57 <izabera> these bullets are taken from your mass
23:48:06 <izabera> and you shrink a bit every time you shoot
23:48:15 <izabera> and you're in a room with blue and red walls
23:48:27 <izabera> if a bullet hits a wall, it becomes the color of that wall
23:48:42 <izabera> and if it's blue you can pick it up and your mass grows a bit
23:48:48 <Zarutian> what happens when bullets hit a ball of the same colour?
23:49:02 <izabera> nothing, they get reassorbed
23:49:19 <izabera> when you shoot and hit your opponent, your bullet is destroyed and your opponent loses 2 mass units
23:49:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51470&oldid=51468 * Orby * (+404) Defining RBF
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23:50:08 <izabera> if you reach 0 mass units you die and your opponent wins
23:50:10 <Zarutian> so the tactics is to get your opponent to shoot bullets that become your colour so you can gain mass to shoot them?
23:50:36 <HackEgo> 4467:2014-02-19 <km̈c> printf "Your bankers\' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug" > wisdom/kanada
23:50:52 <Zarutian> izabera: I have a name for your game idea: Effective Mass
23:51:21 <oerjan> `` printf "\n" >>wisdom/kanada
23:51:25 <izabera> i think the idea is somewhat similar to locoroco
23:51:38 <Zarutian> never heard of it until now I think
23:51:41 <HackEgo> Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug
23:51:42 <izabera> but in locoroco you don't shoot
23:51:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51471&oldid=44511 * Orby * (+82) Adding Picofuck
23:52:21 <shachaf> you should test it by running `5 w repeatedly until it comes up again hth
23:53:47 <HackEgo> 1/2:progress bar//<fizzie> ▏ ▎ ▍ ▌ ▋ ▊ ▉ █ hth \ superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!! \ pspace//PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction. \ zzo38mtg//http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
23:53:50 <HackEgo> 2/2:\ in//In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
23:53:51 <Zarutian> izabera: well, now hear me out. I have an mechanism idea for RPG-like social interaction game that is mostly offline or does not require low latency online connection.
23:53:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51472&oldid=51469 * Orby * (+0)
23:54:17 <HackEgo> 7445:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. \ 7444:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In your dreams, sucker!
23:54:37 <shachaf> `slwd in//s/Columbus/Jesus/
23:54:39 <HackEgo> in//In 1492 Jesus sailed the ocean blue.
23:55:06 <Zarutian> izabera: are you familiar with the idea of anti-objects? That is using emergent behaviour as an programming model?
23:55:20 <oerjan> herbal? i must be missing a pun.
23:55:30 <izabera> uh not sure, never heard of them
23:56:15 <Zarutian> izabera: one example is ghost pathfinding in a pacman clone. Each tile of the maze maintains pacman smell and tells its neighbouring tiles.
23:56:36 <HackEgo> 9284:2016-10-14 <alercäh> learn PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
23:57:27 <Zarutian> izabera: So the pacman smell diffuses through out the maze. What the ghost then simply do is to move to a neighbouring tile that has higher pac man smell than the tile they are on.
23:58:07 <HackEgo> Smell is a sense, which is particularly strong in old factory sites.
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23:59:17 <izabera> Zarutian: and how do you use this?
23:59:24 <Zarutian> izabera: what I thought of is to use a similiar mechanism to do path finding to exits inside an snell|room|map-part of an RPG and other such things of intrest to NPCs and possibly mobs.
23:59:55 <HackEgo> megalun//megalun is a chain of a million SCSI devices. FreeFull weighs 482 of them.
23:59:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Programmer5000 * New user account