00:07:28 <boily> quinthellopia! que le samedi soit avec toi!
00:08:10 <boily> hell§rjan, his523, hppavellon[1], Callo, hezzo38, Phantom_Helloover.
00:08:30 <boily> “may the Saturday be with you!”
00:08:55 <oerjan> it's DST here now, so it isn't midnight UTC
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00:10:07 * boily hates DST. and PDFs. and a bunch of other TLAs.
00:10:40 <boily> we should be at -4 all year long.
00:10:50 <zzo38> I don't like daylight saving time either.
00:10:58 <zzo38> And, PDF also isn't very good, I think.
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00:16:55 <boily> with STR, CON, INT, WIS and CHR.
00:17:00 <boily> are there any other AGIs?
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00:31:50 <int-e> "adventure game interpreter"
00:36:54 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe we're actually living inside something that's an AGI in both senses )
00:37:18 <boily> huh. you can actually make plants invisible in DCSS...
00:37:20 <oerjan> . o O ( although the game sucks )
00:37:37 <oerjan> boily: you did not see that coming?
00:37:38 <quintopia> i was think artificial general intelligence, but agility works too, if you're into acrobatics
00:37:49 <shachaf> oerjan: should i use b-trees instead of binary trees for in-memory data structures twh
00:38:00 * boily ninjaly thwacks oerjan. 0.19 FP.
00:38:04 <int-e> . o O ( AGI is like SCUMM except you die all the time. )
00:38:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i know, vaguely, what a b-tree is. i'm not sure i've ever implemented one.
00:39:10 <int-e> <int-e> "adventure game interpreter" <-- it's by Sierra
00:40:01 <shachaf> it's also annual gross income
00:40:33 <shachaf> the us citizens among us, that is
00:40:50 <quintopia> yeah i really should do that. i usually don't wait this long
00:41:00 <shachaf> Last year I was so prompt with my taxes.
00:41:06 <shachaf> I was done in February, I think.
00:41:12 <shachaf> This year it's going to be a bit messier.
00:41:27 <oerjan> . o O ( all income is gross )
00:42:24 <shachaf> oerjan: do you need someone to take care of yours wth
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00:42:39 <boily> quintopia: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.
00:42:55 <oerjan> shachaf: you're _not_ getting my income hth
00:43:18 <shachaf> obviously i meant zzo38 hth
00:44:26 <quintopia> oerjan: your puns need some adjustment
00:45:04 <shachaf> The thing that confuses me is that there's something called "MAGI", "modified AGI"
00:45:13 <shachaf> So I always thing the A couldn't possibly be "adjusted"
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00:53:01 <boily> `relcome h0rsep0wer
00:53:03 <HackEgo> h0rsep0wer: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:05:21 <quintopia> where's a myndzi when you need one
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01:18:01 <boily> hppavilion[1]: can you myndze?
01:21:13 <boily> hppavilion[1]: a Russian Event. where do hamsters go?
01:21:35 * boily thwacks shachaf. 0.63 FP
01:21:57 <HackEgo> “Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:22:23 <shachaf> boily is a renowned Capitalist?
01:23:03 <oerjan> <quintopia> oerjan: your puns need some adjustment <-- which ones twh
01:25:02 <shachaf> oerjan: i think the pun was on "adjusted gross income" hth
01:25:20 <boily> shachaf: I can't remember why I'm a Capitalist, but I think it made sense at the time. or something.
01:26:10 <shachaf> `` dowg Boily | grep Capital
01:26:25 <shachaf> `` dowg boily | grep Capital
01:26:32 <HackEgo> 10107:2017-01-07 <boil̈y> le/rn boily//\xe2\x80\x9cOnly sane adverb\xe2\x80\x9d boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist wh
01:26:41 <shachaf> `2 dowg boily | grep Capital
01:26:50 <HackEgo> 2/2: Capitalist who helps keep the world boring. \ 7173:2016-03-08 <int-̈e> learn_append boily He is also a renowned Capitalist.
01:27:15 <shachaf> Oh, it's probably about Capital letters.
01:27:26 <shachaf> I think ShubShub is the renowned Capitalist.
01:27:37 <boily> what's a ShubShub?
01:27:57 * boily is startled by the sudden pink of /r/writingprompts
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01:42:00 <HackEgo> lie//Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
01:42:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:gamemanj//gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong. \ blsqbot//blsqbot is the owner of the bot 'mroman'. \ m–rdalsjökull//M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. \ eliot//Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his
01:44:39 <shachaf> Cale: Conor McBride is the best.
01:44:50 <shachaf> Cale: Er, never mind, I'm 4 years late.
01:48:14 <boily> Pie Fungot Domine. Dona eis Tanebventionem.
01:53:21 <hppavilion[1]> Well, I figured out why KeePass2 was misidentifying me here
01:53:35 <hppavilion[1]> (it was typing in the wrong password for no discernible reason)
01:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> I have NumShift, which makes my numrow map to 0123456789 instead of 1234567890, so it was typing in the numbers wrong
01:54:31 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 9h 30m 19s ago: <hppavilion[1]> I forget, was "Tubular" ever a slang the way "Radical" and "Far-out" were? <-- the surfer characters on mezzacotta use it, i think, so maybe it was
01:55:59 <oerjan> . o O ( is that the correct vocative of Fungot? afair latin doesn't really have nouns ending in -t. )
01:56:36 <oerjan> otoh afair anything _not_ ending in -us tends not to have a special vocative.
01:57:29 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i thought the drawl was on purpose.
01:58:13 <oerjan> i didn't cringe merely correct hth
01:58:19 * hppavilion[1] suffocates oerjan in a jar and adds him to his collection
01:58:42 * oerjan makes a daring escape together with jar jar binks
01:59:14 <oerjan> it's the darths & droids version
02:00:33 <boily> I think only Taneb is vocativable. at least, according to tradition.
02:00:56 <boily> . o O ( Fungotte? Ō Fungot? )
02:02:48 <HackEgo> U+1F350 PEAR \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8d 90 UTF-16BE: d83cdf50 Decimal: 🍐 \ 🍐 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
02:05:50 <oerjan> boily: well we don't seem to have any nicks in -us, so... istr one taktentus at one point.
02:07:02 <boily> pear, in honour of the Biting Pear of Salamanca.
02:07:44 <oerjan> `learn istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc.
02:07:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'istr': istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc.
02:09:00 <HackEgo> @messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-bold / @messages-good @messages-gold
02:09:31 <boily> that's a good one ^^
02:11:04 <Cale> shachaf: Conor McBride is pretty great, sure :)
02:11:23 <shachaf> Cale: Someone linked to https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/11flui/for_extremists_only_containers_calculus_comonads/
02:11:34 <shachaf> And I thought it was a recent comment but it's old.
02:12:15 <Cale> haha, I remember that
02:12:31 <shachaf> Anyway recognizing his style is usually easy.
02:14:19 <HackEgo> nightstar:The Nightstars are an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
02:15:12 <HackEgo> int-e:int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. \ oerjan:Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it h
02:15:24 <HackEgo> 2/3:so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he ever rememes. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it. \ soviet russia:Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of i
02:15:30 <HackEgo> 3/3:ts imagination. \ webcarting:webcarting is not dissimilar to Mario Kart, but uses real, remote-controlled go-karts. Participants describe it as "the outlandish spectacle of real go-karting combined with the thrill and immersion of Mario Kart".
02:15:34 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you diss Roald Dahl?
02:16:04 <oerjan> yep, he was a jerk hth
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02:33:22 <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true.
02:33:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'iirc': iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true.
02:33:35 <HackEgo> Ii is a municipality in Finland, no matter what you do. Except for speaking Swedish.
02:34:09 <Sgeo> Cybertown is back from the dead at http://cybertown-webgl.com/ !
02:34:25 <Sgeo> (April Fools, it's still dead. I am in the process of resurrecting the 3d worlds though)
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03:09:36 <HackEgo> i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
03:09:53 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän tsweẗt
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07:36:44 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/xMXrR9.jpg
07:36:55 <\oren\> hooray for glorius egypt
07:38:52 <shachaf> You should mark your screenshots from that game somehow.
07:39:18 <\oren\> also india is now all belong to glorius egypt
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08:22:30 <hppavilion[1]> @msg Jafet <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
08:23:09 <hppavilion[1]> @msg Jafet <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
08:23:18 <hppavilion[1]> @tell Jafet <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
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08:50:00 <HackEgo> 1/1:prefrigerator//Prefrigerators are generalized frigerators with built-in preconditioners for the modern precompact home. They are now available to preorder. \ substructural typing//Not to be confused with structural subtyping. \ herbalist//An herbalist is a list of herbas. \ xyzzy//Nothing happens. \ pipe//This is not a pipe.
08:53:36 <shachaf> λ> filter (`S.member` wos) [y | x <- wo, Just y <- [stripSuffix "list" x]]
08:53:37 <shachaf> ["black","check","due","duel","idea","minima","pane","short","sty"]
08:53:54 <shachaf> oerjan: `? idealist etc. twh
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10:57:27 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 2h 34m 8s ago: <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
10:58:06 <HackEgo> amigamml:Only fools such as zzo38 and so on try to use AmigaMML on a PC. Real Men try to use AmigaMML on a Amiga computer. \ https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Frequently_and_unfrequently_asked_questions \ guillible:A guillible person is someone who can be fooled with a Scheme script. \ time cube:EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS
10:59:22 <HackEgo> 2/3: SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time.
11:27:47 <HackEgo> iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true.
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12:00:02 <wob_jonas> Have you looked at tom7's latest esoteric programming masterpiece? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/abc/
12:00:14 <wob_jonas> (It's not really an esolang, but definitely esoteric programming.)
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12:18:14 <Jafet> relatedly: http://web.cs.jhu.edu/~sam/ccs243-mason.pdf
12:19:51 <wob_jonas> Jafet: yes, I think I've seen that. what distinguishes tom7's work is the "expert mode" rule
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13:06:09 <int-e> it's amazing, but I wish there was a way to not rely on fs = 0 though... (AFAIK DOS doesn't touch fs at all; its value will be determined by the last program to run.)
13:07:58 <int-e> 't see a way around it though
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13:13:00 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/IIET ... only tried it in dosbox though, maybe I should configure dosemu...
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13:17:59 <wob_jonas> int-e: you should probably try it with both various versions of MS-DOS and Freedos. It's quite possible that some of them don't modify FS at all.
13:24:16 <int-e> Basically the thing I'm not sure about is emm386.sys (and obviously, the various "DOS extenders"). Otherwise I would be very much surprised if DOS touched fs or gs.
13:25:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: well, DOS could use FS for its original purpose, as an extra segment register because four segment registers are too few, but obviously it can only do so in paths that don't have to work on older systems
13:25:20 <wob_jonas> when was FS even introduced? in 286 or 386?
13:25:37 <int-e> that's why I would be surprised
13:25:42 <wob_jonas> so MS-DOS probably doesn't use it much, but Freedos could
13:56:22 <int-e> yeah, freenode does something to those registers... getting fs=A204 and gs=54C3 (no clue what these values are) and no persistence between program executions.
13:57:32 <int-e> Plain MS DOS 6.22 is fine. I don't think I can be bothered to play with himem or emm386 or other DOS versions.
13:57:41 <wob_jonas> does any of them point to the start of any of your segments?
13:58:05 <wob_jonas> wait... you start DOS 6.22 WITHOUT himem? I almost never do that. himem is in my minimal configuration
13:58:27 <wob_jonas> note also that there are two versions of himem and of emm386 out there: one distributed with DOS 6.22, and one distributed with Windows 3
13:58:33 <wob_jonas> at least two versions, possibly more
14:00:01 <wob_jonas> himem is useful because if you load it, you get more conventional memory remaining, I think because there are parts of dos that it isn't willing to leave for swap from the system disk, but is willing to put into himem or something
14:00:07 <wob_jonas> frankly I don't understand how it works
14:18:32 <int-e> well, himem.sys is loaded.
15:15:29 <rdococ> what has never been first-classed before...
15:15:56 <rdococ> well, primitive types like int and boolean aren't first-classed often.
15:19:48 <rdococ> the thing is, many languages have associative arrays, and classes
15:20:03 <rdococ> so you can make first class everything
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15:37:20 <rdococ> actually, wait, that's C's &
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15:41:34 <boily> rdochelloc. you may want to check setjmp and longjmp hth
15:41:55 <boily> helløøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøø
15:44:30 * rdococ mapoles boily in a classic plot twisr
15:45:53 <boily> oerjan: it was a non-local dynamic porthello.
15:46:25 * oerjan gets annoyed that vim's hlsearch isn't local to a window
15:46:58 <HackEgo> Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
15:47:15 <HackEgo> feather:A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal.
15:47:23 <HackEgo> feather:A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal. \ ostrich:Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with
15:47:37 <HackEgo> feather \ ostrich \ turkey
15:47:44 <HackEgo> Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab.
15:48:09 <boily> yummy shish taouk...
15:48:19 <wob_jonas> I wonder if one of those should mention that ostriches eat diamonds but don't destroy them
15:48:51 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure they shouldn't.
15:49:29 <wob_jonas> they also eat important documents and other objects
15:49:39 <oerjan> in fact i don't recognize the reference, i assume it's some game, which means it's _definitely_ out of place.
15:50:07 <wob_jonas> you don't read the classics, oerjan
15:52:19 <oerjan> my mind somehow pops up tintin...
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15:53:00 <oerjan> (which i haven't read much)
15:54:47 <wob_jonas> let's MODE #esoteric +b $~j:#esoteric
15:54:49 <oerjan> hm, i've read many of those. but that was >20 years ago.
15:55:42 <wob_jonas> oerjan: it's an extended ban syntax. it means to ban users who aren't banned on #esoteric
15:57:46 * oerjan finds the jules verne novel on wikipedia. not heard of before.
15:58:30 <oerjan> i think that's too obscure even for wisdom.
15:59:40 <HackEgo> augur//augur took no cakes, but he's a linguist.
15:59:50 <boily> yup, definitely too obscure.
16:00:12 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
16:00:48 <oerjan> rdococ: he can do it because he runs HackEgo. well, in theory.
16:02:44 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
16:07:58 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: `? idealist etc. twh <-- meh
16:08:28 <oerjan> i don't quite see how to turn that template into good wisdoms.
16:11:13 <rdococ> MODE #esoteric +b bool canBan(user) { return !esoteric.banned[user]; }
16:12:22 <wob_jonas> "i think that's too obscure even for wisdom" -- there's such a thing?
16:13:31 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable.
16:15:43 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/gLGL <-- the 'bound' instruction isn't as useless as tom7 made it sound, it allows (some) clean system calls.
16:17:46 <int-e> where "clean" means that interrupts are reenabled.
16:18:52 <wob_jonas> int-e: are you sure? because there are many other ways to cause faults, like using address-size override to index past the 64k segment boundary, and some of them you could do even in such a way that when the instruction is restarted it no longer faults (because many DOS syscall like keyboard non-blocking read put the return value in AL),
16:19:00 <wob_jonas> but I think you would end up with interrupts disabled
16:19:10 <wob_jonas> I should read up on the rules of interrupts later
16:19:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: I don't see why it would be different than an illegal opcode fault though, why would one end up with interrupts disabled and the other not
16:20:33 <wob_jonas> int-e: I sent a mail with some questions to tom7 by the way, hopefully he'll clarify on some of the finer points and/or fix errors
16:20:41 <wob_jonas> maybe he'll even improve his program
16:21:05 <int-e> wob_jonas: the point is that the bounds condition can be fixed by the system call. (the AH=0x40h, for example, changes AX).
16:21:34 <int-e> this is not the case for the #UD caused by ARPL.
16:22:02 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, and the segmentation fault can be fixed too, and I think you can even fix the undefined operation with some syscalls like read that write to arbitrary memory address, though those syscalls might be less useful
16:22:41 <int-e> but basically I wanted to redeem the bound instruction :P
16:22:55 <wob_jonas> int-e: you might be right that the bound is the easiest to fix... let me look up what bound does again
16:23:31 <wob_jonas> (I'll also have to read up what those decimal instructions do)
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16:28:56 <oerjan> `learn Postfridgerators are what we'll use once global warming really takes hold.
16:28:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'postfridgerator': Postfridgerators are what we'll use once global warming really takes hold.
16:30:42 <HackEgo> Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners.
16:31:45 <rdococ> `learn Cofridges are ovens that are disrespectful towards entropy.
16:31:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'cofridge': Cofridges are ovens that are disrespectful towards entropy.
16:34:18 <oerjan> `learn_append cofridge They are useful for preparing ffee.
16:34:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'cofridge': Cofridges are ovens that are disrespectful towards entropy. They are useful for preparing ffee.
16:36:22 <oerjan> hm i'm getting ovens and stoves mixed up
16:37:00 <rdococ> you could substitute ovens for stoves
16:38:12 <rdococ> also, they can be used to cook cofood
16:38:55 <rdococ> "They are useful for copreparing ffee, and for oking cofood."
16:39:05 <oerjan> `slwd cofridge//s,ovens,& or stoves,;s,.$, and oking cofood.,
16:39:07 <HackEgo> cofridge//Cofridges are ovens or stoves that are disrespectful towards entropy. They are useful for preparing ffee and oking cofood.
16:40:17 <oerjan> `slwd cofridge//s,pre,post,
16:40:19 <HackEgo> cofridge//Cofridges are ovens or stoves that are disrespectful towards entropy. They are useful for postparing ffee and oking cofood.
16:40:43 <rdococ> Would cofridges respect coentropy, or would they corespect it?
16:40:53 <rdococ> Depends on the comodel, I cosuppose.
16:41:12 <oerjan> codependency is nasty, i hear
16:41:52 <rdococ> oh, that's just because it's cogood
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17:00:17 <rdococ> `learn Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry.
17:00:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'onion': Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry.
17:00:50 <HackEgo> Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
17:01:32 <HackEgo> Right is not two wrongs but three lefts.
17:07:03 <rdococ> `le//rn cod//Cod is a fish's favourite fish person shooter.
17:07:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'cod': Cod is a fish's favourite fish person shooter.
17:07:42 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:19:00 <rdococ> `le//rn glitch//glitch? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:19:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'glitch': glitch? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:27:56 <quintopia> oerjan: the tax one mainly. why else would i have said "adjustment"?
17:39:24 <int-e> b_jonas: okay, I can do, in principle, read the CS register, and perform arbitrary long jumps :-)
17:40:25 <int-e> ("in principle" meaning I haven't actually written printable code for that)
17:42:36 <int-e> b_jonas: http://sprunge.us/UBIK has details if you're interested
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17:55:20 <rdococ> We need a new paradigm.
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18:03:27 <oerjan> the paradigm that can be wished for is not the true paradigm.
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18:04:01 <rdococ> I'll have a coparadigm instead
18:11:27 * oerjan doesn't feel like rdococ is getting into the spirit of doom
18:12:01 <oerjan> better, but needs more a's
18:13:01 <int-e> . o O ( how does cooperation look like among category theorists? )
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18:17:41 <wob_jonas> int-e: I'm not too surprised about reading the CS register. But arbitrary long jumps? That sounds interesting
18:17:58 <wob_jonas> Tell that to tom7 too, he'll be more interested than I am
18:18:43 <oerjan> it sounds like int-e has solved the two most awkward issues, at least partially
18:19:37 <oerjan> lack of backward jumps and no normal output?
18:19:55 <oerjan> oh, and maybe the memory size too, with long jumps?
18:20:13 <oerjan> er, available code size
18:21:52 <wob_jonas> oh! overwriting the return address of the syscall on the stack! that sounds so fragile, it will usually work, but not if the BIOS copies those values first
18:22:16 <int-e> the last instruction will be an iret
18:22:24 <int-e> it has no choice :P
18:22:44 <wob_jonas> int-e: but it can be an iret from a different stack, or it can change the stack
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18:23:25 <wob_jonas> but sure, it's not likely, unless it's a DOS that runs in protected mode and runs your code in v86 mode and the interrupt actually goes to protected mode and doesn't use your stack at all, which I imagine dosbox might do
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18:24:30 <wob_jonas> I don't care if DOS can ruin it in theory, it will work in practice
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18:25:14 <wob_jonas> but int-e, does this mean that tom7's original assertion about how the interrupt flag will remain set after an interrupt return is wrong? or am I just misinterpreting what he says?
18:26:18 <int-e> he argues that one cannot safely return (since that will just trigger the #UD again), and there's no other way of restoring the interrupt enabled flag.
18:27:38 <wob_jonas> I thought he meant that the interrupt flag will remain set even if it does return
18:27:56 <wob_jonas> but yes, I was stupid to think that
18:28:56 <wob_jonas> I guess then there might be ways other than the bound to do this, the bound is just one of the most convenient
18:29:50 <wob_jonas> can you directly ask the programmable interrupt controller to send you a single interrupt request?
18:29:53 <int-e> sure, I saw an opportunity and ran with it :)
18:32:58 <wob_jonas> I'm asking because then you could use syscalls other than the ones that change AX or something
18:33:11 <wob_jonas> although at some point using syscalls will become cheating
18:33:25 <wob_jonas> because eventually you'll just write to a file and exec some other program
18:37:38 <wob_jonas> I asked him why his paper lists the table of 32-bit addressing modes. He says that in 16-bit mode, if you use the address size override prefix, then the ModRM byte is interpreted as in 32-byte code. I totally didn't know that!
18:38:03 <wob_jonas> That means you _can_ use segmentation fault this way too, because you can index with EAX even in 16-bit mode, and have the system call modify AL
18:38:19 <wob_jonas> (instead of bound that is, but bound is easier)
18:38:30 <wob_jonas> I'll have to read the intel & amd manuals about this
18:39:29 <int-e> "If I continue working on this (which I admit is unlikely :))"
18:39:46 <wob_jonas> but still, it's good to know what you can do
18:41:23 <int-e> he suggests using "bye" for the bound: bound di,[bx+di+0x65]
18:41:34 <int-e> at least the final one :P
18:41:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: should I paste my mail and his reply?
18:43:35 <wob_jonas> wtf, why does dpaste.com not work?
18:43:44 <HackEgo> "Paste" is a short story by Henry James. Its contents have been cut into pieces and distributed over numerous tin boxes on the World Wide Web, little pearls of wisdom buried among ordinary pastes.
18:43:52 <wob_jonas> do we have an #esoteric,-approved paste wobsite/
18:44:45 <Taneb> I tend to use arin.ga, which I think izabera runs
18:45:12 * int-e tends to use sprunge.us, but of course that one is lossy
18:48:27 <int-e> ...I'll read the raw version.
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19:24:04 <int-e> rdococ: actually I'm less annoyed by the candy colors and more by the black background
19:24:25 <int-e> (with low contrast stripes which somehow are really hard on my eyes)
19:25:25 <rdococ> aw, because I just ate all the candy
19:52:26 <shachaf> I made a small comment on the implementation of |, which apparently some other people made as well.
19:53:08 <HackEgo> 10576:2017-04-02 <rdocöc> le//rn glitch//glitch? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b_o)/\xc2\xaf \ 10575:2017-04-02 <rdocöc> le//rn cod//Cod is a fish\'s favourite fish person shooter. \ 10574:2017-04-02 <rdocöc> learn Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry. \ 10573:2017-04-02 <oerjän> slwd cofridge//s,pre,post, \ 105
19:55:35 <shachaf> That's a lot of spam in the history.
19:56:05 * Zarutian starts up the Monte Python sketch 'Spam spam spam...' for shachaf.
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20:00:23 <int-e> heh, "I once transmuted flesh into gold though not entirely on purpose"
20:00:27 <wob_jonas> oh, you mean the implemntation of bitwise or?
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20:10:32 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Yes, he implemented a|b as (a&B)+(a&b) rather than (a&B)^(a&b)
20:10:45 <shachaf> Despite not having an easy implementation of +
20:13:23 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think his description of how he does the bitwise or was very vague, with no final assembly code shown, but in the end it doesn't matter too much, it's such a minor thing compared to other optim'ions, so I didn't think through what the best impl would be, rather tried to think about other stuff.
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20:24:24 <shachaf> I mean a lowercase b, if that's what you mean.
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22:43:30 <shachaf> Sounds like a good thing to post to your Twitter account.
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23:02:18 <hppavilion[1]> On a more interesting note, I've found a way to make my gef program more efficient
23:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> The program itself runs a lot faster, but doesn't actually do anything
23:03:57 <hppavilion[1]> The thing that makes it better is a separate, long-lived process that keeps running for as long as you like, which means you don't need to constantly wait for the moviepy library to be re-imported and files can be cached for convenience
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23:28:31 <zzo38> Make the Magic: the Gathering card it exiles only spells and abilities that cannot be countered, but if it can countered then it does not affect it.
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23:42:53 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Neither did I. <-- did what?
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23:43:26 * oerjan swats shapr for ruining his nickname completion -----###
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23:45:25 <shachaf> oerjan: Figure out good wisdoms to make from those words.
23:45:49 <shachaf> That's why I gave the job to the expert.
23:46:01 <shachaf> I forgot he was a lazy expert.
23:48:09 <oerjan> i'm also absent minded, so don't expect me to remember context from hours ago that is nowhere nearby in the logs twh
23:49:27 * int-e plants a memory in oerjan's brain
23:49:45 <oerjan> i have a memory it just has weird selection
23:54:56 <int-e> I was thinking of the term in the way of "Inception", though I have no concrete idea in mind yet...
23:57:20 <oerjan> that's good, as i remember abstract ideas better