00:00:06 fuck i was going to write fifo but then i was like 'that's the wrong one' 00:00:14 int-e: Where? 00:00:15 no it must be filo 00:00:25 Phantom_Hoover: Others seem to be participating in the topic - you seem to be bored of it. I guess I'll just get bored of the stories of people with cancer, or poverty, too. 00:00:28 <\oren\> our economy as a whole is then hindered, and billions of dollars are wasted 00:00:31 filo: push a b c d, pop d c b a 00:00:38 \oren\: Exactly! 00:00:50 i'm not bored, quite the opposite 00:01:00 fifo: push a b c d, pop a b c d 00:01:06 Phantom_Hoover: Then why do you want me to stop? 00:01:15 shachaf: in boily's wisdom repo 00:01:31 Phantom_Hoover: Because you are trying to invalidate my cries for help? 00:01:35 because i think you're being an arrogant prick who thinks he knows better than everyone else on the planet 00:01:47 Ah. 00:01:58 We both seem to think that each other is being said arrogant prick. 00:02:01 Wait, is MIDI really fixed to 128 instruments? 00:02:13 Except, what we are discussing is the education of people like me. 00:02:16 like, in the sense that there are 128 instruments it can use and no more?? 00:02:22 shachaf: which would not have any immediate effect and I rather suspect boily would just revert the change and revoke my commit access :P 00:02:25 you have my every sympathy in your cries for help but i suggest finding a way to express them that isn't "i know better than all these idiots who make up society" 00:02:33 We both seem to think that each other is being said arrogant prick. 00:02:35 Except, what we are discussing is the education of people like me. 00:02:54 i'm quite worried for your sake that you'll end up reading ayn rand or something 00:02:55 a large orchestra has fewer than 128 different instruments 00:02:58 rdococ: School isn't useless, but it would be better by allowing some specialization 00:03:02 "Ayn Rand"? 00:03:08 <\oren\> from the moment you find out, "well timmy is good at writing creatively, but not so good at long division and algebra" little timmy could be placed into a special "writing stream" where only the most vital mathematics is taught. 00:03:33 \oren\: The issue with that, of course, is that sometimes you figure it out later on, or you just get a bad teacher 00:03:45 \oren\, literally have you looked at any research that's been done on the effectiveness of aggressive streaming in education 00:03:45 <\oren\> rdococ: Ayn Rand is a writer who a lot of people hate. Read her books! 00:03:56 \oren\: Why do people hate her? 00:04:09 https://xkcd.com/1049/ <-- having read the books I fully agree 00:04:13 because she's the definition of arrogant, self-absorbed, antisocial selfishness 00:04:29 <\oren\> rdococ: and has "bad" political views 00:04:43 int-e, i would advance https://xkcd.com/610/ as the better xkcd take on rand 00:04:58 \oren\, fuck me are you an objectivist 00:05:11 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: No, I'm a TROLL 00:05:16 er... 00:05:39 Phantom_Hoover: hmm, perhaps too ambiguous without the image title 00:05:49 I'm sorry, how is "School is shit, it treats students like shit, it should be abolished" equal to "Be an asshole and troll to everyone! LOL!" 00:05:50 \oren\: Especially like, what if Timmy could be a great mathematics communicator, educating the dull masses about the wonderful and useful parts of mathematics (See: Douglass Hofstadter; Matt Parker; James Grimes; Mr. whoever wrote How Not To Be Wrong) that- if they teach you them in school *at all*- they wait until AP high school classes to even *mention* despite the simplicity of the basics (like Group Theory) 00:06:11 <\oren\> rdococ: so, If you want to learn ideas that will utterly infuriate people like Phantom_Hoover, read the book "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand! 00:06:42 rdococ, did you look at the comic i linked? 00:06:47 Phantom_Hoover, I did. 00:07:07 But, since you deny him anything more than the most basic mathematics (and he likes that!), he never gets to the good part and just internalizes that math is terrible because it's a chore that he does because he *must* and because he never has to *really* understand, so he never sees the good part 00:07:13 do you see why i get a sense of the same sentiments from what you've been saying here 00:07:19 Phantom_Hoover: hmm for some reason I had associated a stack with lifo order but not filo 00:07:42 I can sort of see where you're coming from, but where she goes "Everyone is stupid; be an asshole", I go "Everyone is stupid about this one particular thing; try to educate them". 00:07:53 Educate in the good way, not the school way. 00:08:03 rdococ: Yeah. 00:08:15 Because educating people in the school method about things would be equivalent to being an asshole, and a control freak to boot. 00:08:28 rdococ: The way schools teach mathematics is atrociously unmathematical 00:08:34 hppavilion[1]: Agreed. 00:08:35 rdococ, okay but what you seem to be missing out on is the part where 00:08:49 My precalculus teacher was literally impressed when I decided to prove the Change of Base Theorem 00:09:01 Phantom_Hoover: I believe I covered the "arrogant" part you keep going on about already. 00:09:05 "maybe everyone else isn't stupid, maybe i'm not the only person who happens to be right, maybe they have a case for their beliefs and it's more complicated than i think" 00:09:29 Hm. 00:09:30 (that is, if you're unsure, log_b(x) = log_k(x)/log_k(b) forall [usefully-defined] k) 00:09:33 "maybe i should try to make my voice heard but in doing so hear the voices of others" 00:09:38 <\oren\> rdococ: In general, I advocate reading about dangerous ideas. Read Atlas Shrugged. Read the book "Beyond Good and Evil" by Nietzsche. Read "Capital" by Karl Marx. 00:09:39 Okay. 00:10:02 So these voices of others are "Go to school, a place you find hell, because it'll probably be good for you in the future, idk because I don't remember. LOl!" 00:10:05 \oren\: Read Art of the Deal 00:10:21 And my voice is "Please kill me now, or free me from this terrifying dystopia." 00:10:24 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: indeed, although it wasn't actually written by Trump 00:10:29 don't actually read atlas shrugged tho because it's the prose equivalent of that thing where you try to eat a packet of crackers without drinking any water" 00:10:35 \oren\: Yeah, that'd be one of the dangerous ideas. 00:10:52 Are you seriously expecting me to listen to voices that agree with my almost literal enslavement? 00:10:52 \oren\: Ah, Nietzsche 00:11:08 rdococ: It's not *that* close to literal 00:11:17 hppavilion[1]: It's not too far from literal, either. 00:11:27 rdococ, okay see this is what i'm talking about, when you are at the point where going to school is "almost literal enslavement" you have nobody to blame but yourself when people don't take you seriously 00:11:39 Das Kapital is mostly a rather weird and outdated theory of macroeconomics 00:11:46 Phantom_Hoover: I don't understand what you mean. 00:11:53 rdococ: I am not sure if you answered already. How is grading done in your school? Is it beurocratically arbritary and based on the whim of the teachers? 00:11:55 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: um. I don't actually see how he's wrong. 00:11:58 Is this another one of your rants where you try to explain away my feelings? 00:12:00 this again is a hallmark of randians 00:12:06 \oren\: OTOH, reading "Beyond Good and Evil" and "Capital" might be a bad idea because they were written by people that we don't like in a foreign language 00:12:13 I'm not selfish, either. 00:12:27 "paying my taxes is LITERALLY SLAVERY AND RAPE" 00:12:28 Jafet: so is most of Keynesian and think Mises stuff. 00:12:30 ... 00:12:42 \oren\: And since we don't plan to teach students fluent German *just* to read 2 books, they'll be reading a translation 00:12:55 Jafet: it is like many of them have not learned proberly about logistics or meta-logistics. 00:12:58 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, okay, wait, so you think I equate paying taxes to the fresh hell of school? 00:12:58 \oren\, i don't know what to say except 'read more about what slavery is' 00:13:16 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: being forced to do work without being paid 00:13:30 EXACTLY. 00:13:32 Phantom_Hoover: I do not know about you. But my taxes do not go to boondoggles like wars. 00:13:40 is doing community service as punishment for a crime LITERAL SLAVERY then 00:13:45 <\oren\> yes. 00:13:52 should it then be abolished 00:13:56 \oren\: Work that benefits others without benefiting you, involuntarily 00:14:13 rdococ: I mean, you are ~forced to do school work and not *directly* paid 00:14:15 Honestly, some of my stronger feelings are that all punishment should be abolished, but that's not the point of this conversation. 00:14:19 er, \oren\ 00:14:35 Phantom_Hoover: depends on the crime. Some crimes such as publicly urinating should result in public toilet cleaning and mantenance. 00:14:40 hppavilion[1]: I'm sorry, are you about to suggest that school indirectly benefits me? That's what Phantom_Hoover has been saying this whole time. 00:14:45 And since the translator was probably an American with the pre-internalized "COMMUNISM AND ATHEISM ARE BAD", regardless of whether it's true (the first may be, the second is not), so the translation is pretty bad. 00:14:50 Should this conversation be abolished? 00:14:57 imho yes 00:14:59 shachaf: yes? 00:15:04 shachaf, I don't know; does it include slavery? 00:15:05 * hppavilion[1] submits his vote 00:15:08 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: there are translators who are communists 00:15:09 Oh, look, white smoke 00:15:12 my posting in this conversation is LITERAL SLAVERY 00:15:15 As in, not as a topic of conversation, but as an actual thing. 00:15:22 \oren\: Yeah, but we're not going to trust those dirty communists to educate their kids 00:15:29 Atheism may be bad. 00:15:30 Phantom_Hoover: Making that stupid joke is LITERALLY SLAVERY 00:15:36 shachaf: Probably not though. 00:15:42 I'm not sure. 00:15:47 Phantom_Hoover: You can opt out of this conversation whenever you want. At this point, you're just making shitty jokes. 00:15:53 No more than any other religion*. 00:15:57 In a very serious topic, too. 00:15:59 Shame on you. 00:16:00 it's true, i am compelled here by the MALIGNANT FORCE OF A TYRANNICAL SOCIETY to post in this conversation 00:16:17 I think this conversation should move to a different channel. 00:16:20 [*I mean, atheism isn't one, but it's still a value- the same way you can have 0 sheep] 00:16:21 Phantom_Hoover: Do you seriously fucking think that what I go through is equivalent to a joke? 00:16:23 I agree. 00:16:25 <\oren\> No personally I advocate exposing oneself to as many ideas that others hate as possible. 00:16:26 int-e: Or abolished entirely 00:16:35 How about #esoteric-blah? 00:16:39 int-e, the real tragedy of it is that we were actually talking about esolangs for a minute earlier 00:16:40 hppavilion[1]: I don't care about that, really 00:16:42 shachaf: I was going to suggest #esoteric-flame 00:16:46 and it was quite an interesting topic 00:17:13 Another tragedy is you don't give a fuck about children. 00:17:21 Phantom_Hoover: Making a computer contort to execute esolangs for you is LITERAL SLAVERY 00:17:24 Humanity's future, being treated like shit. 00:17:36 rdococ, for the nth time this isn't about what you're going through, it's about your decision to shitpost in #esoteric about it 00:17:53 shachaf: Is there a procedure for some sort of official channel vote, or..? 00:18:05 the procedure is finding someone with ops 00:18:12 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, figured 00:18:14 Hm 00:18:16 hppavilion[1]: first the chair must clearly state the motion to be voted on 00:18:24 alercah: Ah, yes. 00:18:30 alercah: On a related note, are you a fan of Nomic? 00:18:31 ^ops 00:18:33 yes 00:18:36 :D 00:18:38 `ops 00:18:39 /msg ChanServ access list #esoteric 00:18:41 though not enough time to play lately 00:18:47 Phantom_Hoover: This started because someone called me out on my lack of creativity. 00:19:01 I ran #xkcd-nomic on Foonetic for a while, but it deyed 00:19:16 I explained that school caused it, and now here we are, with someone on my side, an idiot who can't tell slavery from taxes, and some other people who just want to esolang. 00:19:42 I think we should stop already. I have two weeks off, and I shouldn't let this stupid school thing swallow my life. 00:20:07 Agreed? 00:20:12 fizzie: poke? 00:20:13 that is by far the wisest thing you've said tonight 00:20:26 `wisdom 00:20:27 Or you're just going to criticise me again. 00:20:27 steprans//A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable. 00:21:04 i'm not, 'don't let this stupid school thing swallow your life' is genuinely an excellent idea regardless of what you or i think about the whole thing 00:21:06 At least the wisest thing I've said tonight, includes the fact that Phantom_Hoover is an idiot who can't tell slavery from taxes. 00:21:34 rdococ: you're an insufferable prick right now 00:21:58 int-e is correct 00:21:59 int-e: I'm sorry if I'm causing you any discomfort. School causes me discomfort too, so I can sympathize. 00:22:00 <\oren\> rdococ: he was trolling me when he said that 00:22:02 now what was that thing about stacks 00:22:20 int-e: Ah, yes 00:22:21 <\oren\> he thought I adhered to the ideology of Ayn Rand 00:22:33 * hppavilion[1] pops this topic of conversation off of the #esoteric tangent stack 00:22:49 rdococ, please please follow your own good advice and drop it 00:22:57 hppavilion[1]: Peek? 00:23:28 fizzie: Hi 00:23:31 Phantom_Hoover, I was in the process of doing such a thing. 00:24:06 Of course, the conversation has been popped from the stack; the conversation is no longer stored in memory. So, drop what? 00:24:13 <\oren\> drop it and go to the library and get some of those books I told you about, you'll like them I think 00:24:17 So a minimalist stack language with two stacks would be Turing-complete. The challenge is to find something interesting and minimal between PDA and TC. 00:24:29 Between PDA and TC? 00:24:49 i thought we were originally talking about a notional rust variant with only stack allocation 00:24:52 I'd like someone to figure out how Call Queue works. 00:24:57 PDA = push-down automaton; TC = Turing complete 00:25:03 Yes, I know. 00:25:05 which i thought was quite interesting because it's esoteric in a reasonably practical way 00:25:14 pooch-down automaton?! 00:25:35 can we ban pooches too 00:26:05 Pull-Up automaton 00:26:08 pooch pooch pooch pooch pooch pooch ♪ 00:26:08 int-e: There's that tree stack thing. 00:26:50 I wonder if giving a data tree the ability to hold a countably infinite number of branches and nodes would give it FSA capability, or TC capability. 00:27:12 fizzie: oh I haven't seen that, thanks! 00:27:22 shachaf: It's really an incomplete language, and I think that the page at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Call_Queue should just explain the concept, personally 00:27:28 Rather than a particular incomplete language 00:27:36 the tree alone has no computational class, how are you operating on it 00:28:36 a PDA has an infinite stack but since it can only operate on the top element it's sub-TC; give it the ability to operate on an arbitrary element and its TC 00:29:05 Hm. 00:29:16 How about an FSA that fits the criteria to be a tree? 00:29:20 Phantom_Hoover: google brought me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_stack_automaton 00:30:38 rdococ, well you can unwind any FSA's state graph into a countably infinite tree 00:31:01 Exactly my point. 00:31:04 Kinda. 00:31:18 I guess that was my point, but I'm never certain. 00:31:46 How about an uncountably infinite tree? 00:31:54 Would that be PDA, or TC? 00:32:16 You may be able to unwind an infinite SA's state graph into an uncountably infinite tree, yes? 00:32:41 That would make it TC. 00:32:51 you could unwind any TM into a countable tree as well i think 00:34:03 except idk if the operation i have in mind is any kind of meaningful 00:34:39 hm. 00:34:40 Wikipedia's template has a lot of proper subsets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Formal_languages_and_grammars 00:34:45 though right now I'm irritated by the presence of "set_\gamma"... unless that only works on leaves... 00:35:50 There's the nested stack automaton too, that's like the Funge-98 stack stack. 00:36:47 int-e, in general i'd expect these to be TC... 00:37:36 like you should just be able to directly use the tree stack as a tape 00:37:52 The tree stack one is, but the restricted form isn't. 00:37:57 And the nested stack one isn't. 00:39:07 answers the original question i guess 00:39:40 Granted the restriction Wikipedia talks about is a little awkwardly arbitrary. 00:41:16 With multiplication and division by a set amount, could a BF machine with one cell and unbounded value be TC? 00:41:37 ...Not sure. 00:42:24 surely 'no' 00:42:52 because your only way to do anything conditionally is if the cell drops to 0, at which stage all the data in your program is gone 00:42:54 you need some extra conditional, otherwise any test will reset your state completely in one of the branches 00:43:46 yes, it's basically a finite state machine where the state is just which loop you're in 00:45:01 true 00:45:17 oh 00:45:23 nvm 00:47:21 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function#Reduction_to_3-cell_brainfuck 00:48:02 two-cell is probably sub-TC but it seems that no one's bothered to prove it? 00:49:50 2-cell brainfuck + constant multiplication/divison is enough that i'd wonder if you could do FRACTRAN in it 00:53:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 00:54:51 Jafet: oerjan has tried but I believe his proof is still incomplete 00:59:55 Jafet: I once tried to make things work with just two mutable cells and one or two that is always zero (and where trying to modify that cell would be an error) 01:10:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:10:56 SubStation Alpha is an... unfortunate format 01:11:09 The file extension is .ass 01:12:05 lol 01:17:46 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 01:19:14 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:19:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CLASHING CHICKEN). 01:21:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 01:22:44 Oh, no, it's Advanced SubStation Alpha 01:22:48 (the subtitle format) 01:22:50 ha 01:22:52 .assa 01:24:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:30:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 01:32:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 01:55:51 -!- Zarutian has joined. 01:56:40 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:57:24 -!- Zarutian has joined. 02:01:57 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 02:32:27 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:34:20 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 02:35:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:42:38 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:47:42 -!- xfix has joined. 02:47:42 -!- slacko64_31196 has joined. 02:47:50 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:48:13 I think noah built the great pyramid, and it's actually the great ark 02:48:44 I think the ark was made from the cheese of the pizzas noah kept 02:49:08 i think sharp chedder is the best kind of cheese, but only when it's melted 02:49:36 think about this: 02:49:47 if only two of every animal got on board, all of them would have to inbreed 02:51:21 http://viewzone.com/pyramidcavesx.html 02:51:35 think about this: 02:51:39 the telephone game 02:51:52 the details of stories are lost as time moves forwards 02:52:09 so if you hear a story about taking two of each animal literally, well... 02:54:06 true 02:54:26 I'm not religious anyway 03:01:40 there were seven pairs of _some_ animals 03:02:50 ? 03:03:47 the clean ones, aka those jews can eat 03:03:53 ah 03:05:09 the kosher ones 03:07:47 sounds kosher 03:07:56 `relcome slacko64_31196 03:07:57 slacko64_31196: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 03:08:19 -!- slacko64_31196 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:08:26 i suspect our topic is a bit deceptive at the moment. 03:09:09 whoa whoa whoa, what happened to the topic? 03:09:14 -!- oerjan has set topic: Olds: There ar pyramids in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah. 03:09:19 oops 03:09:26 -!- oerjan has set topic: Olds: There are pyramids in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah. 03:35:40 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQWXRJ8Lc4 03:40:53 they say it's a new pyramid, but it seems pretty old 03:44:27 -!- Warrigal has joined. 03:44:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 03:46:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:57:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:59:30 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:11:07 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 04:11:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:09:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:09:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:11:30 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:22:00 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:23:44 -!- erkin has joined. 05:25:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:26:45 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 05:28:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:31:30 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:33:22 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:44:50 -!- keemyb has joined. 06:05:10 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:11:08 [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51646&oldid=51616 * Oerjan * (+1109) /* Conjecture counterexample */ new section 06:15:31 `? esoteric files archive 06:15:31 cat: esoteric files archive: Is a directory 06:15:37 wat 06:16:14 I ran into evincar today. 06:16:23 oh duh 06:16:42 that's a bug, hm, but how did that happen 06:16:50 oh right 06:17:03 `revert 06:17:04 Done. 06:17:06 I'm on my phone, hard to see what command I ran. 06:17:14 Did I mess it up? 06:17:16 you forgot to use two slashes 06:17:29 Oh. But it had http:// 06:17:34 yep 06:17:34 I see now. 06:17:57 You should force le//rn 06:18:02 i noticed it into the log because the response was lower cased 06:18:04 shachaf: i do 06:18:24 *in 06:18:37 No, I used l a/rn 06:18:43 le/rn 06:19:01 well that's not the point where the error happens, anyway 06:19:32 If it failed with the name le/rn I would've remembered to double slash it. 06:21:24 `` hg log -1 06:21:25 hg log: option -1 not recognized \ hg log [OPTION]... [FILE] \ \ show revision history of entire repository or files \ \ options: \ \ -f --follow follow changeset history, or file history across \ copies and renames \ -d --date DATE show revisions matching date spec \ -C --copies s 06:21:30 hmph 06:22:46 `le/rn esoteric files archive//The Esoteric Files Archive is now available at https://github.com/graue/esofiles 06:22:47 Learned 'esoteric files archive': The Esoteric Files Archive is now available at https://github.com/graue/esofiles 06:39:48 -!- augur has joined. 06:41:08 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 06:44:19 -!- erkin has joined. 06:44:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:49:11 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:56:36 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:07:17 * oerjan fetches the big firehose to flush out all the remains of burnt strawmen from yesterday's channel discussions 07:07:48 I was on my phone for most of that conversation so I didn't read it carefully. 07:08:03 i'm not reading it carefully either. 07:08:17 I mean I barely read any of it. 07:08:22 Maybe I'm better off that way. 07:08:28 almost certainly. 07:14:50 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 07:51:00 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:50 -!- sleffy has joined. 08:04:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:12:34 -!- augur has joined. 08:17:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:42:37 A mer-pointer is half fish, half pointer. A fishy pointer, if you will. 08:59:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:01:03 -!- erkin has joined. 09:05:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:10:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:16:56 Which half is the fish? 09:17:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:28:20 I think it's the pointy half. 09:37:42 That's so odd. java.sql.SQLException implements Iterable. 09:38:16 It iterates over the cause chain, which makes some amount of sense, but it's specifically SQLException and its derivatives. 09:38:43 Looks odd in the "All Known Implementing Classes" list of https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/lang/Iterable.html 09:51:59 <\oren\> for future reference: any plan that involves flying at 25 km altitude at 5 km/s is a good plan 11:00:32 . o O ( "This [...] is just Coyoneda" is not really helping me! ) 11:01:30 -!- atehwa has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:04:21 \oren\: let me guess, the vessel was called Tunguska? 11:10:44 Hmm I don't know... 25km altitude may actually be high enough to not immediately flatten everything on ground. 11:43:38 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 12:39:26 -!- S1 has joined. 12:43:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 12:44:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 13:18:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 13:21:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 13:23:15 sounds flighty 14:04:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:07:37 yay 14:31:24 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:39:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:41:06 -!- boily has joined. 14:44:34 `wisdom 14:44:35 disflagrate//disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized. 14:45:13 `cwlprits disflagrate 14:45:22 oerjän boil̈y 14:55:11 `? szoup 14:55:12 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 14:56:43 -!- Zarutian has joined. 14:57:40 `? unnerver 14:57:41 unnerver? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:28:39 `wisdom 15:28:41 nothing//Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry. 15:29:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 15:30:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:36:13 oerjan has a firehose? ╺ը╾═══💦⢑ 15:37:16 perhaps it delivers disflagrating szoup 15:42:38 oerjan has a firehose? 15:42:56 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 15:45:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:47:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 15:56:13 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:00:16 -!- Zarutian has joined. 16:14:51 oejan is a firehose? 16:15:33 oerjan* 16:15:43 in an alternate universe, his name is Øryan 16:16:05 in another alternate universe, his name is Ørjen 16:20:19 Those don't sound like very interesting alternate universes 16:20:31 true 16:21:12 in some other universe, I'm actually useful for something instead of the worthless pile of IRChit I am 16:21:39 I wasn't ever meant to be here. 16:39:10 how about a gate that maps {A, B} to {A xor B, A and B}? 16:39:48 FF -> FF, FT -> TF, TF -> TF, TT -> FT...? 16:40:03 nah 16:40:04 nvm 16:40:08 Actually 16:40:10 wait 16:55:00 time to phở! 16:55:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHAVING CHICKEN). 16:57:45 whatever that means 17:14:28 Does Pokemon R/B/Y count as a programming language? 17:14:44 If we interpret it as one, is it TC? 17:20:22 // 17:23:24 asepotamia 17:40:28 -!- zsoc has left ("Leaving"). 17:47:56 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:54:49 helloily! 17:55:04 what do of a sat? 17:55:13 rdhellococ! 17:56:10 quintopia: Is Pokemon R/B/Y with ACE TC? 17:56:58 i doubt it! 17:57:33 but i don't know what ace does or how it works 17:57:53 -!- S1 has joined. 17:58:22 Arbitrary Code Execution. 17:58:33 It's a glitch which allows you to execute arbitrary code in PKMN R/B/Y. 17:59:57 People have created games like both singleplayer and multiplayer Pong and singleplayer Snake in it, as well as two viruses (the first of which corrupts your game - the only thing you can do then is trade and spread the virus to others, and the second of which brings the Mew truck rumour to life). 18:01:08 rdococ, given that the Game Boy doesn't have unbounded memory, I'd think it isn't 18:01:15 oh i thought you were referring to https://crystalnoel42.wordpress.com/pokemon-for-ace-kit/ 18:01:22 True. 18:01:24 the thing you're describing i know as "total control glitch" 18:01:52 But still; is it possible to execute every possible valid combination of instructions, or not? 18:02:20 Even if not, some combinations may be equivalent and the system may be as TC as possible anyway as a result. 18:03:10 Taneb: my issue with it is that you're saying "Pokemon is TC" when what you mean is "8080/Z80 is TC". The latter is obviously true given access to arbitrary memory, while the former seems unlikely to be true 18:04:59 the total control glitch entails writing Z80 instructions into game memory and using a buffer overflow to jump to them. it is not simulating anything on top of the game itself. 18:19:00 Yay. 18:19:55 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:22:38 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:24:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:38:47 -!- erkin has joined. 18:47:30 -!- Warrigal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:52:17 <\oren\> I should go watch the Ghost in the Shell movie with Scarlett Johannsen 19:01:42 <\oren\> also people should stop English-washing Romeo and Juliet. Only Italians are allowed to play them! 19:27:27 I suppose Italians would be preferable, although sometimes they might not have that possibility 19:28:02 But if they have good Italian actors to play them then they should, in preference to the English. 19:34:48 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 19:43:10 \oren\: The (Japanese) guy they have playing Aramaki speaks Japanese, and everyone else replies to him in English. It's a little odd. 19:44:17 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:48:50 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:51:09 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:52:25 -!- Warrigal has joined. 19:59:08 -!- Zarutian has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:59:32 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:18:18 does anyone where to find the howto on using contract-of-adhesion against power trip junkies? 20:18:59 <\oren\> fizzie: they're cyborgs, they've got google translate in their heads! 20:19:48 -!- longerstaff13 has changed nick to Vault. 20:20:10 -!- Vault has changed nick to longerstaff13. 20:25:46 -!- Warrigal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:34:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:38:27 [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51647&oldid=51418 * Serprex * (+52) Mention gas 20:38:56 [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51648&oldid=51647 * Serprex * (+2) Let's use italics, it'll be fun 20:50:15 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:29 -!- boily has joined. 21:17:33 `wisdom 21:17:35 corkscrew//A corkscrew is a downwards spiral of doom. See mapole. 21:46:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:51:11 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 21:53:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:10:14 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:11:20 Is content about abstract mathematics which is relevant to Esolangery appropriate for the Esowiki? 22:14:49 Maybe. Describe here on this IRC too I suppose. 22:15:30 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:20:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:30:09 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 22:31:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:51:21 hi 23:00:03 It's taken me 10 days but I now have a working XML parser (for a certain type of XML) written in C! 23:00:35 After 6 days of bugfixing, I'm now grinning ear to ear... 23:02:49 DHellodshot! 23:02:53 rdochelloc! 23:03:04 helloily! 23:03:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:04:12 parsing XML from scratch is a bitch. 23:04:22 Yes. It is 23:04:40 My code is far from perfect, but it works. 23:04:56 It does use GOTOs though... 23:05:02 and converting stuff between jdom and jdom2 in Java because some legacy stuff makes me angry. 23:05:06 I don't know much about XML in the nitty-gritty 23:05:19 What's the hard things about parsing XML? 23:05:20 DHeadshot: SACRILÈGE! how dare you! 23:05:24 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:05:52 boily: I had to to break out on certain errors! 23:06:26 oh. that. that's ok. 23:07:07 Saves a lot of repeated code for freeing mallocs... 23:12:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:13:23 Taneb: namespaces, etc. 23:13:26 Tanelle. it's a lot of grunt work for getting it Just Right™. 23:13:34 bonjouroily 23:13:35 Hm 23:13:38 hellorcah! 23:13:45 I'm considering abandoning WinAmp in favour of PotPlayer 23:13:47 hppavellon[½]. 23:13:50 I wonder if this is a good plan 23:14:00 VLC. 23:14:30 boily: itym hppavellon[√½] hth 23:14:49 boily: I've seen VLC because my mother's FWOB watches pirated TV shows with us on VLC 23:14:58 s/FWOB/FWoB/ 23:15:07 alercah, boily I see 23:15:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:15:31 [They're mostly shows we have legal access to that we want to watch without eating up data] 23:15:52 Taneb: also cdata and entities and... 23:15:57 XML is frigteningly complex 23:16:28 hppavellon[√½ ≈ 0.7071067811865476] 23:17:05 alercah: BURN IT WITH ~~XORRISO~~ FIRE 23:17:37 * hppavilion[1] considers XML to be his archnemesis 23:18:08 * hppavilion[1] like sexps though. sexps are cool. 23:18:12 hmm 23:18:30 {"hppavilion[1]": ["what", "do", "you", {"think of": "JSON"}]} 23:18:43 Taneb: JSON is OK, but you're using it terribly. 23:18:57 And I've heard good things about YAML 23:19:42 -!- Warrigal has joined. 23:20:51 hppavilion[/¼] 23:21:21 -!- Warrigal has quit (Client Quit). 23:22:21 rdococ: hppavilion[4]? 23:22:46 hppavilion[1:4] 23:27:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:27:28 nah, that was my rendering of square root 23:27:59 x:y = x / (x + y) 23:28:06 Imagine an alien which used x:y rather than x/y 23:28:25 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:30:43 `? this 23:30:44 this is a word 23:31:03 `? sweet dreams 23:31:04 sweet dreams? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:31:20 `? luftballon 23:31:21