< 1492473630 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "because I want to make a game about a chicken"? < 1492473651 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I misunderstanding it? < 1492473657 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work too < 1492473669 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually implementing such a language would be hard < 1492473681 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it'd work more like a library < 1492473694 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I calculated that, if you're talking about the class of simple (id est no-carried-values) logic gates of the form I -> O, where I and O are sequences of nonzero natural numbers (I mean, they could be 0, but makes things kind of boring), there are product(I) * product(O)^len(I) possible logic gates (including degenerate cases) < 1492473694 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like AGI to me < 1492473705 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you specify that you want to make a game about chickens, and have to provide the details yourself, but you get a DSL with a game engine and some chicken-based primitives < 1492473718 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[took me a while, because I had to go find the ∏ symbol and then decided not to use it) < 1492473723 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1492473738 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are already languages which allow you to specify DSLs to program in < 1492473763 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, started that parenthetical with a ‹[› and ended with a ‹)›. Let's just say that my statement was a half-open interval and leave it at that. < 1492473777 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yep, but normally you have to write them from scratch < 1492473783 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of DSL combinator seems potentially useful? < 1492473819 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1492473825 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1492473843 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :A standard programming language with libraries? < 1492473869 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the closest we have right now < 1492473879 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some way for the libraries to compose themselves into more useful forms would be nice < 1492473881 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing glue code sucks < 1492473893 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1492473937 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a language written in such a way that libraries written in that language are easily composable? < 1492473969 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in large library collections that you'd think would be integrated, like the Java API or Win32, the different parts tend to not work together well < 1492473973 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea of a programming language in which subroutines could have 'synonyms', which would be alternate names for the function. < 1492473976 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so designing a composable library system seems like it might be really useful < 1492474030 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, say, in terms of trigonometry, you could write asin(x), asine(x), arcsin(x) or arcsine(x) and get the same result. < 1492474080 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would allow for some other library requiring the trigonometry library would be able to use any trigonometry library that implemented synonyms. < 1492474137 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: hmm, one thing I thought of was that the OO concept of interfaces should have a namespace for the individual functions < 1492474155 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can comply with two different interfaces even if they have a naming clash < 1492474157 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, libraries in the code would be renameable. < 1492474183 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess at a much higher level, some sort of type-based duck typing would be nice, though < 1492474202 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions could describe a list of properties they have, and then somehow we figure out if a type complies with an interface by inspecting them < 1492474254 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Do you have any ideas how I can calculate the number of non-degenerate (g)logic gates [see above] with a given... configuration? < 1492474278 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well, normally a logic gate is defined by its truth table < 1492474286 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and truth tables tend to be fairly easy to enumerate < 1492474289 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Yeah, of course < 1492474312 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, found https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/281845/number-of-non-degenerate-boolean-functions#281855 which should be a pretty good starting point < 1492474353 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's some binomial coefficienting involved, at least in the boolean case < 1492474407 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, I don't just want to know how many there are, I'll probably also want a way to decide whether a *given* gate is degenerate < 1492474420 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1492474434 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with a sound chip with no audio ram is that it'd just be the PC speaker. < 1492474445 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1492474445 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1492474447 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dumb < 1492474872 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1492475047 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-told < 1492475047 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 asked 6h 43m 19s ago: Do you know where the content formerly hosted on oerjan.nvg.org is now? I'm interested in your Shove interpreter < 1492475078 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you already replied on Stack Exchange < 1492475086 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're there. < 1492475092 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, nvg is back up now. < 1492475127 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nathan van goorn < 1492475237 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: nvg is student run so when something like this happens during easter break, it can take a while to get fixed. < 1492475254 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1492475773 0 :Simm!~IceChat9@5.144.97.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492475868 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :fourier series requires the ability to produce an inverted sine wave for the symmetric triangle wave, yes? < 1492475905 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least the ability to change the phase < 1492476022 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :in js, can you detect if i'm trying to take a screenshot of the page? < 1492476043 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe in flash < 1492476049 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk something that runs in a modern browser < 1492476057 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :why tho? < 1492476081 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm about to take a test and they're claiming that they can detect it < 1492476113 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your browser have dev. tools? < 1492476129 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the latest chromium < 1492476156 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe inspect the page? < 1492476171 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1492476178 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's in flash that won't work < 1492476184 0 :moonythedwarf!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1492476203 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's js, it's probably gonna be a minified unreadable blob < 1492476263 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1492476265 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teriyaki has audio < 1492476266 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric ::c < 1492476309 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: you might be able to detect the input that the user uses to take the screenshot, even if you can't detect the screenshot itself < 1492476327 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are web pages which can figure out that you're planning to close the tab by the way you move your mouse < 1492476383 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :even changing tab or window is forbidden < 1492476399 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :to bypass such restriction one must be a true hacker < 1492476411 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a laptop owner < 1492476428 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see an example... not a malicious one ofc < 1492476767 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest simply not trying to cheat < 1492476779 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:694:1b7:c3d0:721:7a70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492476793 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was invigilating an exam on computers a while back; we had a few technical measures to catch cheating, but mostly we enforced the rules via shoulder-surfing < 1492477174 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be hard on the shoulders. < 1492477374 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whaaaat's happening? < 1492477453 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: i'm on my bed at home and it's 2am < 1492477467 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll have a hard time shoulder surfing < 1492477485 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a photo of the screen if you really want a screenshot < 1492477495 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they've activated the webcam, that's going to be hard to detect < 1492477575 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: why would anything be happening? what do you know? you cannot prove i did anything! < 1492477578 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:694:34f1:a1fc:33cd:f8cf JOIN :#esoteric < 1492477639 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1492477663 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [x:[y]|x<-"hm....."|y<-"testing"] < 1492477665 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ht","me",".s",".t",".i",".n",".g"] < 1492477672 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1492477768 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [x,y|x<-"hm....."|y<-"testing"] < 1492477770 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:5: error: parse error on input ‘|’ < 1492477779 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(x,y)|x<-"hm....."|y<-"testing"] < 1492477781 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [('h','t'),('m','e'),('.','s'),('.','t'),('.','i'),('.','n'),('.','g')] < 1492477788 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow that feels more elegant < 1492477854 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than what? < 1492477897 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> over (partsOf (each.each)) reverse [(x,y)|x<-"hm....."|y<-"testing"] < 1492477899 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [('g','.'),('n','.'),('i','.'),('t','.'),('s','.'),('e','m'),('t','h')] < 1492477923 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: constructing 2-element lists < 1492477985 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> over (partsOf (each.each)) reverse ("better","examples") < 1492477987 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("selpma","xeretteb") < 1492478111 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on something < 1492478119 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1492478203 0 :Guest4945!~hq@li516-121.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1492478251 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: I think it depends on what you want. < 1492478273 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transpose [[x,y]|x<-"hm....."|y<-"testing"] < 1492478275 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["hm.....","testing"] < 1492478281 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transpose ["hm.....","testing"] < 1492478283 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ht","me",".s",".t",".i",".n",".g"] < 1492478301 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just noticing someone on PPCG said lambdabot supported parallel list comprehensions, and wanted to check. < 1492478301 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transposeOf each ("hm.....","testing") < 1492478304 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [('h','t'),('m','e'),('.','s'),('.','t'),('.','i'),('.','n'),('.','g')] < 1492478314 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, transposeOf each < 1492478315 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. fancy < 1492478378 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t transposeOf < 1492478380 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LensLike ZipList s t [a] a -> s -> [t] < 1492478387 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transposeOf _1 ("hm.....","testing") < 1492478389 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [('h',"testing"),('m',"testing"),('.',"testing"),('.',"testing"),('.',"testi... < 1492478481 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: exactly < 1492478481 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transposeOf _1 ["hm.....","testing"] < 1492478483 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1492478483 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Ambiguous type variable ‘t0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M435504326564... < 1492478483 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : prevents the constraint ‘(Show t0)’ from being solved. < 1492478492 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transposeOf each ["hm.....","testing"] < 1492478494 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ht","me",".s",".t",".i",".n",".g"] < 1492478523 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that transposeOf each /= transpose hth < 1492478544 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1492478578 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a programming language and / or OS based on the tenets of anarchism look like? < 1492478607 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an OS is easier to imagine, as processes are kind of like citizens < 1492478620 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language would need to have no syntax rules, at least < 1492478622 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all programs are valid < 1492478627 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may not always mean the same thing < 1492478635 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it would have a number of highly independent threads < 1492478647 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I like this, all programs are valid < 1492478696 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there wouldn't be a clear seperation between the interpreter / compiler and the source < 1492478719 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreters are authoritarian < 1492478742 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program should be able to alter the behavior of the interpreter < 1492478815 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to think of it another way, the program should have authority over how it is interpreted < 1492478929 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, from the perspective the program shouldn't be interpreted at all, it should interpret itself. Though I have no idea what that means practically. < 1492478933 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1492479090 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Khartridge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51759 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1029) 10Esoteric physical media < 1492479133 0 :Guest4945!~hq@li516-121.members.linode.com QUIT :Quit: zzzzzzz < 1492479219 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1492479316 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if we used the metaphor of a program as an association of individuals and instructions as individuals < 1492479437 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, from the perspective the program shouldn't be interpreted at all, it should interpret itself. Though I have no idea what that means practically. ← I tried to work it out once, it was one of the main themes of Feather < 1492479458 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: oooh, that sounds like fun < 1492479498 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was less fun than it sounded :-( < 1492479507 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still pretty sure it can be made to work < 1492479509 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't manage it < 1492479568 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, just read the page < 1492479652 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the tenets of anarchism can better be realised by applying them to the relationships between the instructions. example: flow control is authoritarian because it denies an instruction the right to execute < 1492479691 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoping also introduces heirarchy < 1492479698 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one language idea I've had is a language which is likely to continue running fine after minor changes to the code < 1492479706 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( did anybody take a look at the Khartridge article? ) < 1492479707 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the instructions work independently of each otehr < 1492479724 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1492479729 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be better in a console I think < 1492479745 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: I've thought about that before too, although in the slightly different form of programs that tend toward a solution and are tolerant of bugs and minor issues < 1492479754 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I did, neat idea :) < 1492479763 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1492479773 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: you might want to look into FPGA coprocessors < 1492479787 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might or might not be the next big thing < 1492479789 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( so many things to look into ) < 1492479835 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also working on a highly abstract language where real numbers would be represented by lazy infinite series < 1492479838 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to see that? < 1492479857 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an anarchistic programming model, I think there wouldn't be an instruction pointer at all, as it implies some centralized authority doling out execution cycles < 1492479867 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: shoot a link < 1492479883 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all instructions should execute simultaneously < 1492479885 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to the Khartridge or to my idea for a highly abstract language? < 1492479896 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract language, already read khartridge < 1492479907 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I haven't made an article on it yet. < 1492479917 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha < 1492479919 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1492479928 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: I *think* I found a recursive solution < 1492479930 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492479950 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Something else cool about the Khartridge is that an ACE exploit lasts forever unless you let the battery run out.) < 1492479971 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even just ACE at that point < 1492479979 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more arbitrary firmware reconfiguration < 1492479992 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1492480005 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: to the self interpretation idea? < 1492480015 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: Huh? No < 1492480026 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, haha, too many ideas floating around < 1492480041 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: To counting the number of degenerate vs. non-degenerate (g)logic gates of a given configuration < 1492480061 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who want to design “extremely high level declarative languages” may want to look at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/popl10_synthesis.pdf < 1492480065 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know what this is. What is (g)logic? < 1492480154 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: I had to invent half the words < 1492480170 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: fun :) < 1492480204 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: Basically, I generalized the concept of "logic gate" to apply to any number of inputs and outputs of any number of options on each < 1492480206 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to DDG how large the ROM of Pokemon Red has
< 1492480208 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/has/is < 1492480235 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-o < 1492480242 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I think they call those circuits ;) < 1492480247 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: So, like, something that takes two 2-option inputs and one 3-option input to give you a 7-option output is a (g)logic gate < 1492480259 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: Usually circuits are purely binary inputs and outputs < 1492480259 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool cool, I'm with you < 1492480272 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just teasing :) < 1492480279 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's 224K < 1492480283 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :KB or Kb, idk < 1492480351 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get to work on the extremely abstract language, I guess. < 1492480358 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Specification of it, anyway.) < 1492480361 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: is it not possible to reduce a (g)logic gate to an equivalent in traditional logic gates? < 1492480369 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: According to the math I've been working out, there are 13841287201 different gates of that class I (the [2:2,3 | 7] class); 237265 of them are degenerate forms and 13841049936 are nondegenerate < 1492480386 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you define degenerate and nondegenerate? < 1492480412 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: The same way as in normal logic gates; a gate is degenerate if some of its inputs have no bearing on the result < 1492480428 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it. I was not familiar with that term. < 1492480478 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: So in a normal context, the dyadic/boolean gate (ab : 00 -> 1; 01 -> 0; 10 -> 1; 11 -> 0) is degenerate since it's just ~b with an extra input < 1492480487 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just in case you were missing something) < 1492480501 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm with you, thanks for the example < 1492480505 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1492480583 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played with allowing the options to go to infinity? < 1492480604 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you get useful convergence in the behavior as the number of options gets big < 1492480622 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la fuzzy logic < 1492480715 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's getting into functional analysis < 1492480788 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1492480793 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492480894 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1492480895 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1492480898 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if there are any languages on the wiki that don't use an instruction pointer (either 1D or 2D?) < 1492480907 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :µ appears like M in the wiki heading font < 1492480913 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which I mean, neither a 1d nor 2d instruction pointer < 1492480926 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: that's a bummer < 1492480932 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikr < 1492481028 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1492481032 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only capital µ < 1492481037 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: use the {{lowercase}} template hth < 1492481042 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1492481369 0 :Xx_Good_Boy_xX!~Xx_Good_B@201.210.197.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492481392 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Template:Lowercase14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51760&oldid=30191 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+137) 10Add usage note < 1492481466 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Template:Lowercase14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51761&oldid=51760 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-1) 10rm newlines < 1492481504 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps that didn't matter. < 1492481529 0 :Xx_Good_Boy_xX!~Xx_Good_B@201.210.197.243 PART #esoteric : < 1492481556 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Template:Lowercase14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51762&oldid=51761 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-136) 10Testing < 1492481561 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow is one way to get around using an instruction pointer, didn't really think about it that way < 1492481570 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does, hmph < 1492481605 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh, I misread the domain name and thought that was an esolang < 1492481613 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*orby_: < 1492481669 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: gah, do you know how to put in a template so it doesn't add a newline? < 1492481695 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: deleting the newlines around the itself works in some cases < 1492481700 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not all though? < 1492481768 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already tried that < 1492481781 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although only the one _before_... < 1492481823 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need to delete newlines after the too < 1492481846 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it did < 1492481869 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Template:Lowercase14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51763&oldid=51762 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+136) 10Try again < 1492481881 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now it worked. < 1492481887 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: thanks < 1492481910 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: no, not an esolang... yet! a better page for dataflow programming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming < 1492481919 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a mathematical algorithm to determine if two infinite series converge to the same value? < 1492481939 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: do you consider e.g. /// to have an instruction pointer? it always executes the first command, then deletes it from the program. < 1492481958 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I can't think of a reliable way apart from taking limits of each < 1492481974 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking whether they converge to /each other/ is probably more interesting, because it's more general < 1492481977 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I would say it is still sequential and thus more or less has an ip, even though there isn't flow control < 1492481997 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Perhaps? < 1492482001 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about But Is It Art? that's one of the least IPful languages I've written < 1492482023 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: let me read that one again < 1492482108 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I remember it now. yeah, I'd say that's squarely outside of the realm of sequential languages < 1492482148 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: given that it's undecidable whether an infinite series _converges_, it's also undecidable whether two converge to the same thing. (well, essentially.) < 1492482156 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like this dataflow programming model for an anarchistic programming language as it models each command as a node in a graph, which seems more egalitarian to me than the traitional sequential model < 1492482214 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, even through judicious application of algebra? < 1492482225 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: cellular automata would also count, no? < 1492482243 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: certainly. < 1492482254 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: although note that just because it's undecidable in general doesn't mean that it isn't often decidable in practice < 1492482266 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik < 1492482267 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, cellular automata definitely count < 1492482275 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Where a linear program[clarification needed] can be imagined as a single worker moving between tasks (operations), a dataflow program is more like a series of workers on an assembly line, each doing a specific task whenever materials are available." < 1492482288 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good parallel (although not exactly the same) is that the majority of NP-complete problems tend to be fairly easy if given random problems < 1492482289 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: oh, also eodermdrome < 1492482289 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, if that doesn't sound like anarchism I don't know what does < 1492482294 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only become difficult when you compile into them < 1492482314 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, eodermdrome and BIIA? have quite a few similarities < 1492482346 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: checking out eodermdrome now < 1492482375 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: most cellular automata, term rewriting (lambda calculus) and graph rewriting languages (G-machine, eodermdrome), pretty much all of circuit theory < 1492482401 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about generalized continued fractions, oerjan? < 1492482426 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, eodermdrome is not exactly what I am looking for, as it does model the state as a graph, but the instructions are still executed sequentially < 1492482429 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent actor models, etc. < 1492482445 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, concurrent actor models are more along the lines of what I am think < 1492482450 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thinking < 1492482483 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eodermdrome really doesn't depend much on evaluation order < 1492482493 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does thue (where the evaluation order is nondeterministic) < 1492482537 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: the instructions aren't necessarily executed sequentially, although some implementations may choose to use the first matching one. < 1492482547 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: when you say much, do you mean not at all, or only a little? I haven't read into enough detail to understand it < 1492482553 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :computational salmon migration models… < 1492482603 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby_: "If no command in the program has its prerequisites met, the program will exit; otherwise, an unspecified command whose prerequisites are met will be run (this means that an interpreter can always choose the first, or the last, or a random command, or use any other method to determine which command runs, if more than one can run)." < 1492482623 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, most eodermdrome programs are written in such a way that the order in which commands run isn't relevant at all < 1492482641 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :“most eodermdrome programs” < 1492482643 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me look at this again in more detail... that sounds closer to what I'm thinking than I thought on first glance < 1492482672 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: :P < 1492482690 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: you can understand hypothetically how a language works < 1492482694 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if nobody actually uses it < 1492482727 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks like it's used occasionally: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/67507/62131 < 1492482835 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Ahh, I have a clearer idea of how it works now. Yes, this is the spirit I'm looking for. Really cool idea, even if "is capable of executing a couple of commands per second" is a little prohibitive ;) < 1492482867 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, real eodermdrome programs are going to be deterministic or nearly so, if only because it's painful to design them in more interesting ways < 1492482880 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: you get multithreading for free in this sort of design < 1492482910 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if the implementation supports it properly though < 1492482926 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean semantically < 1492482936 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler might or might not be able to optimize it, but probably not < 1492482936 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In terms of encoding, a dataflow program might be implemented as a hash table, with uniquely identified inputs as the keys, used to look up pointers to the instructions." < 1492482972 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty egalitarian to me :) < 1492482979 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious optimisation of checking the most recently changed part of the graph first would starve other “threads” without explicit synchronisation < 1492482999 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: oh, eodermdrome is cool; have you read much on graph grammars? < 1492483016 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: no, but I assume they're inspired by the same basic idea < 1492483021 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen some eodermdrome-like constructions < 1492483027 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they normally rely on distinguished nodes < 1492483082 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: my masters thesis did a bunch of work with hyperedge replacement grammars < 1492483102 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the modern formulation does not actually refer to hyperedges < 1492483111 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: hm that stackexchange eodermdrome program is misunderstanding how the language works, it will print _many_ hello worlds. < 1492483154 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in that case it may be worth dropping a comment and asking the author to request it < 1492483156 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1492483163 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to correct it < 1492483177 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually works, but it doesn't match al, it matches og < 1492483195 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because that's the only degree-1 node? < 1492483198 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1492483198 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1492483250 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: tl;dr, productions are of the form {label} -> hypergraph with an ordered tuple of distinguished nodes, called external nodes < 1492483267 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does a hypergraph differ from a graph? < 1492483275 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :an edge can connect to multiple nodes < 1492483282 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hyperedge < 1492483297 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, a hyperedge has an ordering of nodes as well < 1492483308 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you want to drop a clarifying comment or shall I? < 1492483315 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing it < 1492483319 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1492483336 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if e is a hyperedge labeled A with k nodes, then you can use the production A -> H to replace e with H, identifying the neighbours of e with the external vertices of H in order < 1492483342 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: I assume it can connect to less than 2 nodes, too? < 1492483366 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that construction reminds me of a CFG < 1492483374 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to Eodermdrome, which is definitely context-sensitive < 1492483393 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: done < 1492483397 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: yes < 1492483410 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: it is equivalent to a CFG over a specific type of graph algebra, yes < 1492483452 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to a particular kind of equation system; a CFG is such an equation system over a free monoid < 1492483577 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: hmm I think eodermdrome suffers a restriction that HR also has, namely that any given program can only generate graphs of finite treewith < 1492483580 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*treewidth < 1492483586 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bounded < 1492483616 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's treewidth defined? < 1492483667 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treewidth < 1492483763 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that a command with k open vertices will create a graph where they form a cutset, so the treewidth of the result is max(tw(rest of graph), tw(replacement graph), k) < 1492483874 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :tw(replacement graph) and k are fixed by the rule, and tw(rest of graph) is bounded inductively < 1492483906 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think that works < 1492483938 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find treewidth a very intuitive concept, but using the clique definition, I can see how a cutset would prevent a new clique forming < 1492484075 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way that I tend to think about it is "if you zoom out, how tree-like can you make it" < 1492484104 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess how far you need to zoom to get a tree < 1492484109 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the treewidth bound should give a O(2^26 n) (or maybe n^2) algorithm to implement eodermdrome, but I never bothered to look into it < 1492484141 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ yeah, the treewidth bound means that implementing it is fixed-parameter tractable < 1492484147 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the first time I've seen an "O"(2²⁶n) solution to something < 1492484147 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually quite interesting! < 1492484150 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a randomised colouring algorithm that should work in O(e^26 n) expected time or so < 1492484168 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: that's just linear, no? < 1492484176 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both linear < 1492484187 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1492484192 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a notation that's like big-O notation but somehow conveys the approximate magnitude of the constant factor < 1492484197 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I put the O in quotes < 1492484207 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly clear what it means, yet really hard to define < 1492484212 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: that's what fixed-parameter complexity addresses < 1492484219 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :here k=26 is the fixed parameter < 1492484232 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: right, I thought the definition would be along those lines < 1492484250 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: You're the one who contemplated a BUT gate- p BUT q? < 1492484251 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to imagine an eodermdrome interpreter that inherently cares about the number 26 < 1492484257 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ntbcw a BUTT gate) < 1492484261 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: TriINTERCAL has one of those < 1492484267 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Does it now? < 1492484274 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work, callforjudgement < 1492484274 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1492484274 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1492484281 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Good to know < 1492484301 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I think that the dyadic/boolean gate 0010 is a good candidate for p BUT q < 1492484302 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: err, not quite < 1492484303 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: hppavilion[1]: http://c.intercal.org.uk/manual/qk5q4hrh.htm#TriINTERCAL < 1492484303 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: ^ < 1492484311 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :more precisely, k is the size of the graph you are matchin < 1492484318 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the second bullet point < 1492484318 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed-parameter tractability means that there is some variable parameter that you can fix that makes the problem tractable < 1492484332 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mean the problem is tractable in the general case < 1492484346 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you limit to, say, input graphs of size k, then it might be tractable < 1492484350 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tractable = polytime) < 1492484417 0 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1492484800 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho hum < 1492484807 0 :orby_!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1492484830 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492484835 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I return! < 1492484853 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought to myself, my the channel got suddenly quiet. Then I realised I had disconnected... < 1492484865 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would do it < 1492484951 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1492484967 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, nobody did talk while you were gone :P < 1492484980 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1492484991 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long I was disconnected < 1492485028 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minute or two < 1492485041 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't have seconds in his client.
< 1492485060 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: 23 seconds < 1492485081 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1492485090 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get a real irc client for windows < 1492485098 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1492485100 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :agred < 1492485112 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: Exactly. My client has ρs precision. < 1492485123 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds lovely < 1492485135 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so precise they needed to invent a new prefix for it, and they didn't have any latin letters left < 1492485148 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: To be clear, that's a greek letter rho, not a p like 'pico' < 1492485170 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :why'd they make it look like pico then? < 1492485184 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Poor planning on SI's part. < 1492485197 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting. what does the rho prefix stand for? < 1492485215 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, what order of magnitude? < 1492485216 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: ρ stands for ρho < 1492485233 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: Oh, 10^-ε_0 < 1492485254 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not familiar with your notation < 1492485266 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is -epsilon_0? < 1492485281 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: well, - is a minus sign < 1492485289 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1492485319 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: ε_0 is an ordinal; see < 1492485342 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tasty ordinals < 1492485374 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it! A joke! < 1492485393 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same quantity as 2^-ε_0? < 1492485402 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: They've never been very good at abbreviations, given that they added the usually-impossible-to-type, sometimes-difficult-to-transmit, a-bit-weird-to-write, impossible-to-think-about-without-going-insane-from-knowledge-man-was-not-meant-to-know μ as a frequently-needed prefix symbol. < 1492485428 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: You would think so, but you'd be wrong, since this is base ω and that isn't a normal 10. < 1492485439 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1492485448 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: ...so... uh... yeah. < 1492485456 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that doesn't really change anything < 1492485458 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that 10 was the same in every base < 1492485475 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492485496 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Nope. < 1492485526 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: In German Military bases, for example, they call it "Zehn" < 1492485785 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not „Zehn“? < 1492485796 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Correct. < 1492485932 0 :jameseb!~jameseb_@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1492485946 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492486000 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? thought < 1492486001 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. o O ( Why are they asking me for what a thought is? ) < 1492486010 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd thought//s,for ,, < 1492486013 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought//. o O ( Why are they asking me what a thought is? ) < 1492486039 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tfgnyjlzwnsvcsrx QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492486067 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492486077 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07CompressedFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51764&oldid=45695 5* 03Fractalwizz 5* (+140) 10Added Interpreter Link < 1492486099 0 :zgrepc!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492486341 0 :jameseb!~jameseb_@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1492486395 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-myzayrqctafnmidk JOIN :#esoteric < 1492486453 0 :zgrepc!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1492486514 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see it is time to retire from HackEgo again. < 1492486606 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1492486656 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatter29 was not doing again. < 1492486660 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492486716 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg fsm < 1492486725 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10739:2017-04-16 revert \ 10738:2017-04-16 le//rn FSM//A flying spaghetti monster that always consume all of its "input" and outputs *something* \ 5949:2015-08-30 learn An FSM is a state machine with noodly appendages. < 1492486736 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1492486743 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e++ < 1492486940 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51765&oldid=42057 5* 03Jafetish 5* (+208) 10/* Implementation */ < 1492486985 0 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wodmdrzrckdjpprk JOIN :#esoteric < 1492487021 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: did you test the BCT interpreter twh < 1492487056 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the program we both used to test our interpreters hth < 1492487061 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall someone did once < 1492487064 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1492487160 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51766&oldid=51765 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-40) 10/* Computational class */ It's been tested now < 1492487731 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492487766 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492487974 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1492488018 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492488395 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's there not a page about sed programming < 1492488403 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tetris in sed or gzip in sed < 1492488441 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, while sed is a normal tool, writing a fully functional tetris implementation in it is not normal < 1492488449 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1492488482 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492488512 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soni: a bit tricky to get keyboard input, i think < 1492488542 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdin < 1492488571 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soni: sed can only take whole lines as input < 1492488648 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a bit tricky to do anything when the user is _not_ giving input. < 1492488667 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you need to press return every time you give it input < 1492488684 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or when you *don't* give it any input) < 1492488859 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :þo < 1492488860 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :þm < 1492488862 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1492488966 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a good tetris ui < 1492489043 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, tetris can only take whole lines as output < 1492489227 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1492490374 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you play bridge? < 1492492904 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell moonythedwarf quinor, besides, we can revert your shit as long as you dont chmod 000 everything. <-- that bug was fixed hth < 1492492904 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1492493045 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dowg < 1492493046 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dowg is a wise dog. < 1492493052 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tomfoolery dog < 1492493053 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. < 1492493054 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tomfoolery dowg < 1492493055 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. < 1492493059 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tomfoolery `dowg < 1492493059 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. < 1492493062 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tomfoolery tomfoolery < 1492493063 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomfoolery is wisdom < 1492493072 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tomfoolery wisdom < 1492493073 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is tomfoolery < 1492493078 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom tomfoolery < 1492493079 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomfoolery//tomfoolery is always factually inaccurate. always. < 1492493086 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom wisdom < 1492493088 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fourth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom fourth The < 1492493105 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fifth wisdom < 1492493106 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fifth wisdom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492493108 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? first wisdom < 1492493109 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first wisdom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492493115 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom wisdom < 1492493116 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom wisdom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492493123 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1492493124 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sed < 1492493125 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492493136 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? teriyaki < 1492493137 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :teriyaki? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492493356 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell moonythedwarf also, quinor, if you need the full output, redirect output to a file, and then `paste for a link to it <-- | paste is better for command output hth < 1492493356 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1492493559 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( If the opposite of goto is comefrom, what is the opposite of return? ) < 1492493928 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :return is to go to somewhere you have been, so the opposite is to come from a place you'll be < 1492493964 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :callfrom, i guess < 1492494064 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite of return is setjmp < 1492494078 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite of call is longjmp < 1492494083 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however you use those things < 1492494227 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1492494352 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( opposite of variables ) < 1492494639 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l /usr/bin/passwd < 1492494640 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwsr-xr-x 1 0 0 54192 Feb 24 08:09 /usr/bin/passwd < 1492495275 0 :misterhitla!~lookatind@l37-192-45-59.novotelecom.ru QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1492495288 0 :misterhitla!~leobloom@l37-192-45-59.novotelecom.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1492496002 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492496373 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how is quartersquare related to A1? < 1492496580 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492496759 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur! < 1492496771 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ata < 1492496773 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ! < 1492496971 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaya! < 1492497464 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw: I'll be recreating the dead article K as an esolang. < 1492497489 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was gonna be called µ, but it will have a special K constructor, so I decided, why not call it K? < 1492497936 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode K < 1492497937 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+004B LATIN CAPITAL LETTER K] < 1492497942 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'K < 1492498183 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1492498197 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1492498217 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51767 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+2048) 10Real numbers & the K construct. < 1492498227 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :still in progress < 1492498362 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new extremely geeky insult. < 1492498363 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your family's so redneck, a DAG is insufficient to describe your pedigree" < 1492498376 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-o < 1492498383 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1492498393 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes. < 1492498409 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there's a problem with my formatting < 1492498435 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: What is a K constructor? < 1492498525 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :a K constructor takes two infinite lists and returns a real number whose generalized continued fraction is based on the two lists < 1492498545 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the real number is stored as the continued fraction, but meh < 1492498608 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492498610 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to escape {}? < 1492498630 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51768&oldid=51767 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+9) 10 < 1492498679 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51769&oldid=51722 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+70) 10/* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */ added K < 1492498680 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1492498686 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the letter K < 1492498699 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], see Khartridge on esolangs.org < 1492498722 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1492498786 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51770&oldid=51769 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+207) 10Added the Khartridge < 1492498838 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a looksy < 1492498840 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaysy < 1492499123 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492499195 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492499221 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Another thing you might find interesting: Toying with the underlying data model of a language < 1492499231 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1492499249 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :K uses two lazy infinite lists to store real numbers in memory :P < 1492499270 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Most normal languages us a map with identifiers as the key-type as their data model < 1492499284 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean variables? < 1492499291 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes, but hush for now < 1492499298 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1492499424 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Languages like Forth, Underload, and Befunge use stacks (though befunge also invokes the grid) as the underlying data model, languages like brainfuck use a tape, Fueue uses a Queue < 1492499437 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik < 1492499447 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yk? < 1492499452 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1492499467 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But do you get what I mean by "underlying data model" now? < 1492499472 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most register machines use an array) < 1492499476 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew in the first place but okay < 1492499489 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It was just terminology definitions :P < 1492499499 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I knew that term :P < 1492499507 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just confused by 'identifiers' tbh < 1492499509 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I got it < 1492499524 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I'm not sure if I invented the term or it already existed :P < 1492499534 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Oh, I see. "you mean variables" < 1492499543 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confused
< 1492499549 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes and no; variables are what identifiers refer to. < 1492499563 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's not what I meant. < 1492499567 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An identifier is a name given to a variable < 1492499568 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1492499576 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know an identifier and a variable are different. < 1492499585 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: OK, I see < 1492499593 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just asking whether you meant the concept of variables when you mentioned a map with identifiers as the key-type. < 1492499598 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1492499600 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH! Yes. < 1492499603 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it is. < 1492499610 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik < 1492499614 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1492499802 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But a fun esodea is to mess with the underlying data model in strange ways; like, what if you used a reflective/bidirectional/whatever map instead of a normal one? < 1492499821 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjxe8ShM-8 < 1492499831 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to be on-topic for once. < 1492499835 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bidirectional? < 1492499908 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Powerpoint is Turing-complete) < 1492499943 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think I saw in the SIGBOVIK report about how they made Turing-complete with Powerpoint < 1492500038 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: A map that goes both ways. < 1492500103 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ah < 1492500117 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x -> 3 and 3 -> x? < 1492500231 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I love that video so much < 1492500259 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :lole < 1492500266 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yeah, or even better, x -> y and y -> x < 1492500277 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no actual values there; the information is just in the relations < 1492500281 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: so x == y < 1492500294 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Perhaps < 1492500346 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it does kinda sound like variables without values < 1492500358 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just equivalence to other variables instead < 1492500382 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an inverted map? x -> y means y -> ¬x < 1492500388 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ¬x -> ¬y and ¬y -> x < 1492500393 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the imaginary unit < 1492500418 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: ...huh? < 1492500467 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to ensleepen < 1492500469 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH < 1492500518 0 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492500541 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the current topic is something to hang on to < 1492500622 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hangs ont oti
< 1492500750 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492500753 0 :MDead!?@? NICK :MDude < 1492500956 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1492501200 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492501532 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyeeh < 1492501846 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51771&oldid=51768 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+88) 10/* Overview */ < 1492502142 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51772&oldid=51771 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1) 10/* Overview */ < 1492502928 0 :Simm!~IceChat9@5.144.97.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492503038 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492503194 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :mornin' all < 1492503336 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :NISTUR! < 1492503345 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? k < 1492503346 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :K K K Ken < 1492503348 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? khompiler < 1492503350 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :khompiler? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492503354 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? khartridge < 1492503355 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :khartridge? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1492503360 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492503362 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brainfuck < 1492503364 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array < 1492503448 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :RDOCOC! hello? < 1492503505 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :NISTUR! HELLO! < 1492503556 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1492503575 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492503607 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling that I might get looked down on here if I mention I've been playing with brainfuck? :P I gather it's the most boring and overused esolang, right? < 1492503653 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1492503667 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the most boring and overused esolang. < 1492503675 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :its derivatives are a whole spectrum of crap tho. < 1492503697 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, so I don't have to claw back acceptence by saying I wrote a bf compiler in 8080 assembler? :P < 1492503704 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice < 1492503704 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, mostly. < 1492503712 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to write a bf compiler in 8080 assembler that is OK. < 1492503731 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, there are good bf derivatives. BitChanger comes to mind. < 1492503752 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how about the picofuck project? < 1492503832 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got inspired before christmas by Hackaday's 1kB challenge... I wanted to try to write soemthing for some microcontroller in 1kB... so I decided that, as I'd written a 8080 emulator, I'd try and write something in bf for that... so the limit was 256B for the compiler, and 768B for the bf program... but I have no idea what program I'll write yet (also, I'm looooooong past the 1kB challenge end... but I < 1492503838 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :was never intending to enter) < 1492503912 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got an (almost) complete compiler in 252B... it doesn't do input... adding non-blocking input back in would add 11B... blocking input would take... probably 20B more < 1492503992 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw: does the picofuck project allow nested loops, zzo38? < 1492504169 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Khartridge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51773&oldid=51759 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-6) 10 < 1492504409 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zd5ujhi1fqxae0.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1492504418 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest! < 1492504421 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1492505345 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest! < 1492505691 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nistur: you might get more room for the bf program if you pack the commands into 3 bits < 1492505726 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes... but then I'd have more space in the compiler as I'd have to decode it < 1492505731 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering that < 1492505794 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably do 4-bits quite easily... but then I couldn't just basically (in theory) burn some bf code to a chip < 1492505808 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: you can definitely nest the picofuck commands. < 1492505842 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/nistur/8080bf/blob/master/src/bfc.asm <-- that's the compiler right now :) < 1492505938 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/nistur/8080bf/blob/master/src/hello2.asm <-- and I 'borrowed' some bf code from... I think from the esolangs wiki for that one... I don't actually have to assemble that, it just ends up as the bf with a $ on the end, padded to whatever I set MAXSIZE as... so I _could_ just use a plaintext file... but this way I get dynamic padding so *shrug* < 1492505971 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I need to add attribution to the bf samples I've got there. I didn't actually mean to submit them -_- I don't like adding other people's work to my repositories < 1492506385 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I mean, is it treated like a while loop or like separate instructions? < 1492506460 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: it depends what RBF commands it expands to < 1492506511 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1492506514 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1492506523 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1492506525 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant nanofuck < 1492506534 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1492506543 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk, too many tiny fucks < 1492506627 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, nanofuck { and } nest like brackets < 1492506667 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that we have any other than pico- and nano- < 1492506702 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with SI prefixes. there are smallfuck and tinybf. < 1492506849 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :plancofuck < 1492506854 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :one instruction < 1492507000 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRICKY < 1492507195 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you cheat < 1492507224 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a list of instructions, say RBF instructions < 1492507238 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer <-- if you can have a single instruction set CPU... surely you could just replicate that with a *fuck? < 1492507257 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have each occurrence of the single instruction execute one of them based on IP modulo :P < 1492507326 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to figure out how it'd have to work... as you only have the one cell to work with < 1492507401 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1492507416 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't turn an OISC into a OIfuck because OISCs often have parameters < 1492507420 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF instructions can't < 1492507469 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1492507476 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise this < 1492507487 0 :Nistur!nistur@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ltjscbzevcfecait PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could initialise the tape beforehand it could work < 1492507494 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION especially likes the toga computer one
< 1492507618 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: for that ip modulo thing to work, you'd need to be able to _not_ put the instruction at some positions ... but then you really have two instructions. < 1492507638 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not if you enable comments < 1492507681 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the number of programs is countably infinite. just have one number for each program and use the one instruction that many times. < 1492507701 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just Unary. < 1492507704 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Unary < 1492507707 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1492507732 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: see the intro to https://esolangs.org/wiki/1L < 1492507756 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: and then EOF is your other symbol hth < 1492507809 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language where eof is the only symbol < 1492507835 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that modulo thing sounds like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turning_tarpit < 1492507849 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more symbols than Unnecessary but fewer than Unary < 1492507891 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on esoteric nonlangs at the moment < 1492507895 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :because esolangs are overrated :P < 1492507932 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1492507937 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1492508181 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492508194 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :does rapidly alternating sound to achieve chords work well with sine waves? < 1492508414 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean FM synthesis? < 1492508746 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1492508801 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if I could use that in conjunction with the Fourier series to generate something reasonably close to any sound through one channel < 1492508913 0 :ybden!?@? NICK :bendy < 1492509977 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1492509977 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpeggio < 1492511590 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/AskComputerScience/comments/660rwn/help_with_understanding_esoteric_languages/ ← so this thread might be of interest to this channel < 1492511748 0 :kiki`!uid170954@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fjdlmwlsivrvjrxp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1492514703 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I read that < 1492515201 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492515582 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1492515584 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad//Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1492517521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492517521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1492517521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1492517625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Client Quit < 1492518454 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: IMAGINARY CHICKEN < 1492519795 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zd5ujhi1fqxae0.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1492520908 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492521061 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492521231 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa UK election < 1492521370 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what did you do < 1492521399 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me personally? not very much that's relevant < 1492521411 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than voting Remain, I guess < 1492521427 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm actually surprised this didn't happen earlier < 1492521465 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to happen before the Article 50 trigger, rather than afterwards < 1492521473 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doing it afterwards rather makes a mockery of the stated timing for it) < 1492521554 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of potential outcomes here, though (and the fact that the Conservatives have enough votes for it – they do, according to all media reports – implies that at least one of the parties is overestimating their chances for how the election will go) < 1492521630 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're in a weird spot at the moment where the majority of political parties are much lower on credibility than they normally are < 1492522191 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huhwhat < 1492522349 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it was a complete surprise, especially because the government said that the timing for article 50 was based on getting everything done before the next election < 1492522362 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a snap general election kind-of tears the nation's attention in multiple directions at once < 1492522476 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1492522481 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's a bit strange. you usually want new general elections only if the parliment is in a stalemate where they can't elect a proper government. < 1492522571 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit weird to have done it after, I agree, but it makes sense politically < 1492522591 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :May never had an electoral mandate; this would give her one to implement Brexit as she wants < 1492522600 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the opposition clearly think they can sink her < 1492522603 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in this case, we have an unelected prime minister with a very shaky majority (the Conservatives collectively only have a few votes above what they need to force through laws, but the individual Conservatives who hold those votes don't agree on everything, so a rebellion of a small number of MPs can defeat the government) < 1492522620 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the reason for doing it after Article 50 is very clear, it's to prevent the election from being a second referendum < 1492522626 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: I've seen the theory that Labour MPs are agreeing to it to get rid of Corbyn < 1492522638 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, possible! < 1492522656 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that nobody can stop Brexit now that A50 has been triggered < 1492522672 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's believed that in practice reversing Brexit would be fairly simple < 1492522689 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could almost certainly get the EU to change their rules to allow it to be halted, if Britain had the desire to halt it < 1492522710 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, likely < 1492522724 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is, if it isn't reversible at the moment (according to the person who wrote the text of A50, it was meant to be; the article itself doesn't state an opinion) < 1492522726 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: our traidtion established by the three times it's happened is that it doesn't matter if the new minister-president doesn't have a "mandate" from an election, he gets the mandate from the parliment anyway, because in the elections you choose representatives to the parliment, not a government directly < 1492522746 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: while that's true from a legal point of view, poitically it's very different < 1492522751 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's the rule here as well < 1492522765 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is far easier for a government to act when it has a fresh electoral mandate < 1492522777 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :politically, for the parlimentary elections, the parties do campaign by stating what government they want and who they'll put as the prime minister, but that doesn't matter, because those parties also campaign by claiming a lot of other lies < 1492522777 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most Brits concede that Theresa May has a right to be PM – mostly because she was the only Conservative willing to do the job – but are mildly annoyed at how things worked out < 1492522778 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*politically < 1492522794 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why a prime minsiter would be any different from other hollow election promises < 1492522811 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK parties don't normally even promise a specific prime minister < 1492522820 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just normally obvious who it will be (the leader of the party in question) < 1492522850 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: did you see the time when the SNP attempted to become the official opposition party? that was hilarious < 1492522854 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to concede they had a point < 1492522880 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, it was a time of huge front-bench Labour rebellion against Corbyn, and Sturgeon claimed she had more support than Corbyn did among MPs) < 1492522893 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: "on the basis that nobody can stop Brexit now that A50 has been triggered" => I still don't buy this. the rule about article 50 is that Brexit is now the default if there's no strong agreement among the EU members and Britain in two years. They're still expected to do talks and agree on some saner method, which _probably_ involves a Brexit, but with lots of special rules, but could be a non-Brexit if politically advantageous. < 1492523031 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahaha < 1492523043 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ They're still expected to do talks and agree on some saner method, which _probably_ involves a Brexit, but with lots of special rules, but could be a non-Brexit if politically advantageous. < 1492523047 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, it's true < 1492523061 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: the Speaker eventually decided that the rules didn't work like that, but he apparently took the request fairly seriously < 1492523137 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as he should! < 1492523159 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1492523315 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-129-193.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1492524375 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1492524383 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492524400 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to try making a golfing language, using as many unicode characters as possible (which opens up about 16k commands as a possibility) < 1492524412 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1492524425 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1492524429 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1492524456 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: note that that's not a great way to score points on PPCG, they count programs in bytes (in any encodin the language supports) < 1492524538 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1492524546 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea, i know. Im taking stack overflow golf in mind (which often does counting in characters) < 1492524562 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: maybe look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Sclipting < 1492524599 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I endorse this, but if you want to make a golfing language, look at the precedents) < 1492524619 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: it only counts in characters if you have a 256-byte character set, at least nowadays < 1492524623 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, 256-entry character set < 1492524627 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or less) < 1492524670 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1492524717 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1492524720 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scheme < 1492524723 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose Your Champion < 1492524723 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :250) quintopia: no i'm not laughing at you, i'm laughing because *you're stupid* i mean with you < 1492525537 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know why https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:2017 is missing a ton of entries logged out, but not while logged in? < 1492525664 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^ < 1492525703 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can reproduce, dunno < 1492525733 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1492525774 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's odd. < 1492525786 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing maybe some sort of a caching thing. < 1492525788 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logged-out version is cached from january < 1492525799 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cached time: 20170129015828 < 1492525822 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if this is supposed to clarify anything < 1492525864 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've had some problems with category page caching before. < 1492525872 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I don't remember the details. < 1492525913 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:File_cache "Category and image description pages aren't purged from file cache. For example, adding or removing a page from a category doesn't update the category page, causing not logged in users to not see the changes in the category page. This is a known limitation. See task T26575" < 1492525922 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it was that thing. < 1492525940 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: there's Sclipting < 1492525987 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T26575 open since 2010. < 1492526002 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: YES! that's what I said too < 1492526009 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? maybe you're viewing a cached version < 1492526017 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:2017?action=purge work with sufficient privileges? < 1492526037 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a solution, obviously, but may reduce the embarrassment a bit) < 1492526069 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I tried < 1492526084 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say we should blame cloudfare < 1492526099 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though we're not using it? < 1492526148 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a maintenance PHP script I run when I upgrade versions which purges all cached stuff. < 1492526159 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I tried too, it doens't help < 1492526173 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I last did this in Jan 28th, which is probably why the cached copy is from Jan 29th. < 1492526192 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1492526198 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 2017 category is the most obvious < 1492526208 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the older year categories don't change much and the nonyear categories are too large < 1492526243 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could rerun rebuildFileCache.php every now and then, I guess. < 1492526248 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@unaffiliated/bowserinator PRIVMSG #esoteric :@part < 1492526248 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1492526263 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap Bowserinator < 1492526263 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION karate-chops Bowserinator into two equally sized halves
< 1492526340 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 是hocking < 1492526370 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@unaffiliated/bowserinator PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1492526441 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why mediawiki even maintains two cached versions < 1492526478 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two? < 1492526494 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean one for logged in and one for logged out users? < 1492526499 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure the former is cached? < 1492526521 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no (FileCache) cache for logged-in users. < 1492526574 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can just remove the cached .html files. Presumably. < 1492526578 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Cached time: 20170418133312” < 1492526610 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks to have worked. < 1492526611 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, luckily I'm a bit ignorant about the internals of mediawiki < 1492526637 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the “Cache expiry”, whose value is 86400, would seem to have not been implemented < 1492526676 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: FileCache doesn't have expiration, no. < 1492526707 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the cache actually necessary? < 1492526712 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1492526753 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about "necessary", I haven't really touched the existing setup. < 1492526770 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think most browsing happens non-logged-in, though, so presumably it's doing something. < 1492526804 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mediawiki rendering is expensive < 1492526878 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect it'll help if the wiki is ever brought up on a popular reddit thread... which isn't impossible. < 1492526906 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I almost wrote "slashdot" < 1492526907 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1492526934 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, the "Cached time:" for logged-in users probably has something to do with the memcached thing. < 1492526972 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIUI, $wgUseFileCache = true is pretty much separate from $wgMainCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED, both of which we do. < 1492527035 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former caches the full sent-to-browser HTML output on disk, and only applies to logged-out users. < 1492527084 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter I believe is a more of an object cache. < 1492527090 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and action=purged applies to the latter? < 1492527111 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1492527118 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :action=purge < 1492527157 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know. The file cache docs do mention action=purge, but it didn't seem to do anything. < 1492527163 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492527223 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492527550 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Trajedy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51774&oldid=51291 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2) 10links to userpages must be marked (Esolang policy); if you want to change your username, let me know < 1492527567 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: ^ < 1492527614 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1492527635 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm fine with that edit) < 1492527703 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1492527715 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the "sure" referring to? < 1492527795 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing I added after it < 1492527800 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1492527867 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1492527958 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're doing maintenance, I suggest looking at the backlog of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization < 1492528088 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear whether there is a backlog there, as it's not clear what the process is when someone makes a category proposal and then nothing happens < 1492528133 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone wanted to make the musical esolang category, I wouldn't stop them though < 1492528140 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like there's enough consensus < 1492528215 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the first backlog is the lack of a process < 1492528279 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a common problem in Esolang < 1492528292 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the opposite issue is that when there /is/ a process, nobody wants to put in the effort to go through with it) < 1492528365 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suspect that people think there is a process proscribing them from just adding new cats < 1492528603 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule is that you don't create new categories without agreement; and this is a descriptive rule rather than a prescriptive rule (i.e. people who did it had a tendency to get banned, back when graue was in charge, so we added the rule to try to reduce the frequency with which that happened) < 1492528617 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that if there /is/ agreement, therefore, you can add them < 1492528878 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:e508:fcb2:dabd:a8e6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492528994 0 :augur_!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:4cc6:1cb3:1498:783f JOIN :#esoteric < 1492529186 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:e508:fcb2:dabd:a8e6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1492529649 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly, now nobody creates new categories because that note discourages them, and this too is descriptive, not prescriptive, that is, it's still allowed to create new categories < 1492529676 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1492529692 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, the number of categories we currently have is fairly large already < 1492529703 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there being a bit of a higher bar to making them probably isn't that much of a big deal < 1492529736 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. if I ever get around to create the articles in my TODO, then we'll have six articles related to IOCCC, so then I'll create an IOCCC category < 1492529763 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be better as a list than a category < 1492529763 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but categorization isn't that important on this small wiki anyway < 1492529772 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs defy categorization by nature < 1492529783 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a See Also on an article about the IOCCC < 1492529792 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1492529844 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "IOCCC" is easily searchable anyway, so we might not need a category < 1492530016 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you weren't here, I mentioned that a lot of people on PPCG seem to have created all sorts of esolangs, of the more useful kind that can be used to write actual programs for golf challenges (not necessarily golf solutions, just solutions that can be written by a human and executed by an interpreter successfully), < 1492530043 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that golflangs even are esolangs < 1492530051 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that some of those languages are probably interesting and would be worth an entry on esolang and we don't know about them because there's too few overlap between the two communities. < 1492530053 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it's appropriate for esolangs.org to cover thejm < 1492530078 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIO uses a split between "practical languages" and "recreational languages" (the latter category includes both golflangs and esolangs) < 1492530081 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they need not be golflangs. I'd count even something like brainfuck, because people try to golf in it, even when they know very well that the result will be longer than if they just wrote something in perl. < 1492530117 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess there's Brain-Flak (and maybe JSFuck) as massively verbose languages which people try to golf in < 1492530118 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not specifically interested in the golflangs here, I'm just saying they're not very theoretical languages that can't even be implemented for theory reasons, or ones in which nobody will write programs < 1492530133 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right, PPCG care a lot about languages having interpreters < 1492530140 0 :augur_!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:4cc6:1cb3:1498:783f QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492530143 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas on esolangs.org the specification is much more important < 1492530154 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on PPCG, a language doesn't even exist if the interpreter doesn't work (and can't legally be used even if you fix it) < 1492530203 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, and people don't submit entries if they can't write them < 1492530317 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I was looking at Hello, World https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/55422/hello-world , which is clearly a bad question to look at, because it has answers in languages nobody would use for almost any other task < 1492530343 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's a catalogue question, and those are frowned on at PPCG < 1492530351 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want a few but creating new ones tends to get you shouted at < 1492530362 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as usual on long SE threads, people answer it without reading existing answers, so it has actual fucking duplicates, < 1492530398 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has an interesting non-duplicate which surprised me, namely that there are two languages called Hodor that are apparently unrelated to each other < 1492530411 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it does have real dups too, mind you) < 1492530420 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a JS program in the question that lists all the answers in alphabetical order by language < 1492530424 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should make dupe checking fairly easy < 1492530464 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, that's the wrong question to look at. what I'd be more interested in is what languages there are that more than one people regularly use to write programs on PPCG, and that we don't know about < 1492530470 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we should know about such languages < 1492530492 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them might turn out to be interesting (some might not of course, but I let's not bash Java now) < 1492530512 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is interesting IMO < 1492530521 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it's well-designed, but its shortcomings are interesting to think about < 1492530578 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Java is worth at least knowing about just for its cultural significance, just like BF is, no matter how good or bad or uninteresting languges they are < 1492530938 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51775&oldid=51751 5* 03D2alphame 5* (+372) 10/* Introductions */ < 1492530999 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably actually learn Java at some point < 1492531018 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1492531042 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can say I dislike it with a clean conscience < 1492531105 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1492531129 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried it. i disliked it. i tried haskell, i liked it, but it was too much math for me. i tried rust, i liked it, i stuck with it. < 1492531217 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about Java at one point. That was long ago, and Java has changed since. It seemed... bland to me. As in, it was a language that was made to be uncontroversial, taking the then known wisdom about interpreters and stuff, and building a language < 1492531231 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has the things a language clearly should have, and avoiding most of the more experimental crazy stuff. < 1492531249 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sort of seems like scheme in that respect, but a decade or two later. < 1492531505 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hear java has changed a bit since, though probably not as much as PHP < 1492531521 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's backwards compatibility is really something of an anchor on it at this point < 1492531555 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, its standard library doesn't have much of a unified vision < 1492531568 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it acts like a collection of unrelated libraries from different vendors < 1492531796 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: backwards compatbility => that's true to a lot of software, not just Java, and I think it's part of the uncontroversial wisdom. everyone knows that a programming language should be backwards compatible, so that you have to spend less time on fixing bitrot of old and well working libraries. that's why we still have Fortran compilers, even if we know the problems with fortran. < 1492531808 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:D2alphame14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51776 5* 03D2alphame 5* (+282) 10Created page with "==D2alphame== Programmer, chess player, cuber, checkers player, mathematically-minded, Nigerian, analytical, Nihongo no gakusei. I love programming! See my [https://github.com..." < 1492531824 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"standard library doesn't have much of a unified vision" => don't all sufficiently old languages get that eventually? < 1492531858 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of back compat, the library can only grow, not shrink, and it gets added parts that were only de facto standard because programs depend on half-ready extensions < 1492531871 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some changes which wouldn't make any negative difference to 99.9% of programs and yet would make any programs easier to write < 1492531935 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple example would be changing Object#getClass from a method on Object only that returns Class, to a method on every class that returns Class < 1492531946 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what effect would it have on those very few programs that it could change? proper error messages about incompatibility, or undebuggable random "segfaults"? < 1492531955 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would make the type system accept some things that are obviously safe but don't currently correctly type < 1492531971 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you'd even notice it unless you were really trying hard to contrive a situation where it matters < 1492531998 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could screw up overload resolution if you had some really specific overloads? < 1492532008 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even sure on that though < 1492532008 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because undebuggable segfaults at remote parts of the program in very contreived cases is what stops some of the "improvements" that seem reasonable < 1492532016 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside of Java-land that is < 1492532040 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java never segfaults, barring buggy libraries and extensions < 1492532053 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I know, which is why I used quotes < 1492532053 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the equivalence is random ClassCastExceptions < 1492532058 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tend to be much more debuggable < 1492532062 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equivalent < 1492532070 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, could this be solved by adding a new method rather than changing getClass instead? < 1492532086 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't pick any possible name for it that doesn't potentially clash with some method that already exists < 1492532093 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's namespacing is fairly poor < 1492532137 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy enough to write a static method to replicate the functionality, though (although doing so requires a cast that the compiler can't prove safe, it actually is safe, so you can just suppress the warning) < 1492532322 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1492533236 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492533434 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:b13b:e2a0:6686:ea3b JOIN :#esoteric < 1492533986 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fd05.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1492534423 0 :S1!?@? NICK :Herbstkind < 1492535842 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1492535882 0 :bendy!?@? NICK :ybden < 1492535895 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492536031 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1492536480 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1492536490 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1492536953 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a polite way to say "I'm not moving to a potential war zone are you mental?!" < 1492537100 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: um, if I'm representative, I'm not sure this channel of nerds is good at helping you in diplomatic ways to phrase stuff in formal letters < 1492537171 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: but if I was asked to take up a job in Israel, and wanted to say that politely, I could refer to that I have an aged grandmother and other family who binds me to here and I don't want to get too far from them when they are in need, and I think you can say that even if it's not quite honest < 1492537192 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only I'm not sure how risky it is to say that if you do want to move to America for a job < 1492537343 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ask someone who's better at not saying stupid things than me < 1492537475 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see... < 1492538574 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1492538593 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1492538625 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading sheet music, and I'm pretty sure this chord has an acúte accent < 1492538642 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ácute < 1492538790 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not to be confused with a gràve, a dőuble acute, a dȍuble grave, a line̍ above, or a do̎uble line above) < 1492538810 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: don't they use such things as intonation marks with sometimes multiple meanings depending on who writes them? < 1492538831 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, if you're particularly dull, a diæ̈resis or a tidlė) < 1492538835 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Maybe? < 1492538844 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I really just need to know how to put it in Lilypond < 1492538973 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe like a Caesura? < 1492539006 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_(music) < 1492539038 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492539042 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yeah, but I can't find the one I'm seeing < 1492539138 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: do you know its meaning? < 1492539143 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: http://www.everyonepiano.com/pianomusic/005/0004121/0004121-w-b-1.png, measures 25 and 26 (go by the numbers above the first measure of each line) in the bass... stave? < 1492539145 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Nope < 1492539211 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think that one is something different, not an articulation mark... though I don't recall what it is < 1492539219 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a bare bar < 1492539222 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to find what it is < 1492539252 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bar/beam/ < 1492539276 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember I've seen something like that < 1492539382 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpp: can it be this notation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremolo < 1492539403 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492539426 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think that's always two or more beams, so it might not match < 1492539439 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, apparently it can be one beam < 1492540153 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492540274 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1492540658 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1492540931 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey, the facebook killer shot himself < 1492540943 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1492541254 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/4.0sprint < 1492541268 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492541840 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TESLA FREIGHT TRUCK YAS < 1492541857 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1492541953 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELECTRIC LORRY! < 1492542190 0 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wodmdrzrckdjpprk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1492542238 0 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1492542277 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what the hell < 1492542282 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were there only 4 people in history? < 1492542308 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Mary Shelley was inspired to write The Modern Prometheus after hearing her husband speak to Lord Byron about Galvanism < 1492542373 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord Byron being another famous author (writing exempli gratia Don Juan and Epitaph to a Dog) who was ALSO the father of Ada Lovelace < 1492542390 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492542690 0 :MiningMarsh!~user@unaffiliated/miningmarsh JOIN :#esoteric < 1492542908 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], a lot of people became famous because of their connections < 1492542912 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Bryons were rich < 1492543321 0 :Herbstkind!~s1feha@ip4d16fd05.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1492543579 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1492543602 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome MiningMarsh < 1492543605 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13MiningMarsh: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07EFnet 08or 09DALnet.) < 1492543608 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(have you been here before?) < 1492543727 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492544233 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:b13b:e2a0:6686:ea3b QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1492544269 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:b13b:e2a0:6686:ea3b JOIN :#esoteric < 1492544297 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, great! < 1492544338 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I'm clearly stupid for not having noticed this before, but apparently sometime between windows 7 and now, MS has fixed these stupid ribbon bars so that the tooltip of buttons on them now do show the shortcut key for the command < 1492544372 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old behavior of not showing the shortcut key anywhere was so stupid, it meant only old people like me could navigate programs, because we could guess what the shortcuts are from the time when they showed up in pulldown menus < 1492544405 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even I often couldn't guess < 1492544422 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1492544474 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1492544549 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:b13b:e2a0:6686:ea3b QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1492544769 0 :MiningMarsh!~user@unaffiliated/miningmarsh QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1492545244 0 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492545375 0 :MiningMarsh!~user@lawn-128-61-113-29.lawn.gatech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1492545390 0 :MiningMarsh!?@? NICK :MinMar < 1492545723 0 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1492545776 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1492545908 0 :MinMar!~user@lawn-128-61-113-29.lawn.gatech.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492546030 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1492546110 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492546683 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1492546948 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Jot14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51777&oldid=47168 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+58) 10Pronunciation < 1492546980 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ladies and gentlemen, a good service is operating on all London Underground lines. All other lines are operating a good service." < 1492546980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you remove the e from "Goedel" on purpose? < 1492546990 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this "presumably" is really the right tone for this wiki. < 1492547002 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you want to have a conversation about it you can do it in the talk page. < 1492547045 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wrong channel hth < 1492547100 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: The above is for you. < 1492547193 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wasn't sure if it was amusing enough for the right channel, and the bar's lower here. < 1492547208 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really? < 1492547222 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I added a diæresis, but it was combining, so if your font sucks it might not render < 1492547224 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more on-topic than the current conversation in that channel. < 1492547250 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. sure you didn't hth < 1492547264 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Jot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51778&oldid=51777 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+1) 10Fixed diacritic. Happy, shachaf? < 1492547274 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was doing my best to keep my name off that wiki. < 1492547284 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it's there and won't ever go away. < 1492547286 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1492547287 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty irritated. < 1492547296 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* of course < 1492547303 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sorry. < 1492547316 0 :minmar!~user@lawn-128-61-113-29.lawn.gatech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1492547334 0 :minmar!?@? NICK :MinMarsh < 1492547360 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you should get rid of or fix that pronunciation parenthetical. < 1492547364 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As mentioned above. < 1492547403 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect your pronunciation is just wrong, too, but I don't know. < 1492547529 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Jot14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51779&oldid=51778 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (-25) 10Dropped 'presumably', added other possible pronunciation at Voldemort's behest. < 1492547603 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should remove the whole thing. Why are you an authority on how to pronounce this name? < 1492547611 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would pronounce it like the English word "jot". < 1492548053 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's favourite pronunciation is /jot/
< 1492548133 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492548367 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait why wouldn't you want 'shachaf' to be on the wiki? i mean, the wiki links to the logs for this channel which obviously contain over and over for literally years < 1492548376 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1492548385 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not in the wiki. < 1492548398 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhh what < 1492548402 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it matter anyway? < 1492548407 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in the logs. < 1492548415 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like your mention in the wiki is going to jump out and kill you < 1492548418 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: did you fix your build system yet twh < 1492548424 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1492548438 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1492548441 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's holding you back < 1492548473 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can do a history delete on the wiki if necessary < 1492548481 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1492548507 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is necessary < 1492548510 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1492548518 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never had the opportunity to do this before < 1492548524 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10Ais523 changed visibility of a revision on page [[02Jot10]]: edit summary hidden: Inappropriate comment or personal information < 1492548549 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I hid the edit summary < 1492548565 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, I was going to say it isn't necessary. < 1492548582 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the fact that I've made you go to the trouble of doing it means I'll be even less likely to sign up for the wiki in the future. < 1492548587 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to reduce cognitive dissonance. < 1492548594 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now just wait for the cache to expire... < 1492548606 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still see the edit in https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Jot&action=history < 1492548610 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's just a cache? < 1492548622 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms extremely hard
< 1492548624 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I only see it when not logged in < 1492548636 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could sign up under a pseudonym < 1492548651 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lagging again, aren't I? < 1492548676 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1492548682 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lagging again, aren't I? < 1492548696 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:50 I'm lagging again, aren't I? < 1492548696 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:51 ... < 1492548696 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:51 I'm lagging again, aren't I? < 1492548701 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1492548704 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1492548707 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign up as "fashach" < 1492548708 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 62 seconds. < 1492548709 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't answer your question because I don't know how to answer. < 1492548725 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fashachism < 1492548726 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ais523: 0.703 second(s) < 1492548731 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign up as "fatchash" < 1492548734 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"faschach" < 1492548752 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fæschætch" < 1492548762 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"phaschatsch" < 1492548765 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's OK, I mostly only asked the question for its side effects and was planning to discard the return value < 1492548776 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1492548807 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait shachaf means something right... < 1492548837 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In elementary school people would distort my name as "fachash". < 1492548855 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, "Phaschatsch". < 1492548872 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you just stop it, rdococ? < 1492548885 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right. I'm worthless here. < 1492548886 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1492548891 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1492548897 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fachschaft < 1492548900 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ok what about "PkMnWingull87" noone will suspect a thing < 1492548931 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo PkMnWingull87 | base64 -d 2>/dev/null < 1492548932 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​>C'Z)àºY| < 1492548944 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if the PK and MN digraphs are in Unicode < 1492548964 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they aren't, how are we going to convert files stored in Pokémon's internal text file format for archival? < 1492548965 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should totally add those to my font < 1492548977 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy; don't use Unicode. < 1492548983 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll message the Unicode mailing list < 1492548988 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren should totally propose those < 1492548999 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should make sure they aren't there first < 1492549001 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stranger things have happened < 1492549002 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alternatively, use private use codes. Or, better, don't use Unicode, but provide a mapping to Unicode with \oren\'s font!) < 1492549009 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I didn't know that Phil Katz died in 2000 < 1492549021 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of reasoning is basically how emoji ended up in Unicode, after all < 1492549079 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I'll write an email later once I've taken a full enventory of the characters needed < 1492549108 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add such digraphs into the UTCE document though I suppose. (It also includes a partial Unicode mapping, but only for characters that actually exist in Unicode.) < 1492549116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? inventory < 1492549118 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An inventory is a collection of inventions. < 1492549166 0 :MinMarsh!~user@lawn-128-61-113-29.lawn.gatech.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1492549218 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric < 1492549258 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492549367 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME FROM freenode; < 1492549377 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, the ones that aren't in unicode include Pk, Mn, Po, Ke, the P with two strokes used for the games' currency, < 1492549811 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1492549834 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492550020 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1492550111 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492550180 0 :moony!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1492550232 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492550550 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492550688 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1492550716 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll be busy creating more stupid crap. < 1492550730 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of stupid crap do people want me to create tonight? < 1492550891 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a language which is easy to disguise as something else < 1492550898 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience on PPCG is that we can /always/ do with more of those < 1492550905 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming they're implemented < 1492550907 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they're fairly stupid < 1492550922 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we've been resorting to plumbing the depths of BF derivatives on occasion…) < 1492551063 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately they're in no short supply < 1492551169 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1492551294 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Universal brainfuck reads the first 8 characters of a program, which it interprets as [>+,.-<] in that order. The remainder of the program is interpreted as a brainfuck program using that encoding. Any valid brainfuck program can be turned into a valid universal brainfuck program by prepending [>+,.-<] though that transformation will not preserve quines. ) < 1492551330 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I can know for in future, is there a command in vim to exchange a character with the next one? < 1492551345 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like this should be useful for all those challenges that constrain the usable chracter set. You can apply a similar idea to some two symbol language, I'm sure. < 1492551346 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: People say to use xp < 1492551354 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But that will overwrite your deletion buffer thing. < 1492551386 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of existing programs are laid out as some kind of ascii art, someone should define a semantics for those < 1492551398 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: you won't believe how long it took us to find an Alphuck interpreter that worked well enough to be usable, and even then it probably didn't implement the spec correctly < 1492551410 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Alphuck is one of the most derivative BF derivatives I've ever seen < 1492551474 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you “find” one in about five minutes? < 1492551595 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, that works; I did not think of that. Although you are also correct it also will overwrite the deletion buffer < 1492551604 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: nah, it turns out that most BF derivatives don't actually work < 1492551652 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect many golfed brainfuck interpreters exploit the actual character codes in some way. For example +/- can be implemented using data[p] += 44-c, where c is the character read. < 1492551684 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are stuff you can do like that, by taking advantage of the ASCII codes < 1492551733 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just taking any brainfuck implementation and adapting it may be harder than you think. < 1492551759 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, there's some reference implementations... the bfgolf series had one if I recall correctly. < 1492551769 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many BF derivatives mess up things like comments < 1492551780 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprising how many BF derivatives add an explicit comment symbol < 1492551822 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some implementation use ! to separate the program from input, but I think ] could be used for that purpose, for compatibility with programs that use ! for comments. < 1492552040 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting ] right after the program (read from a file) was one of my favorite brainfuck interpreter golfing tricks. < 1492552264 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't created a BF derivative. does that make me slightly less crap in your eyes? < 1492552448 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two less than me! < 1492552469 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, putting in the effort to do something interesting is all that really matters, even if you don't succeed < 1492552482 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are so many potential ideas out there that we need lots of people to help find them < 1492552624 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1492552641 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492552657 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet someone's thought of using generalized continued fractions to represent real numbers in memory before < 1492552683 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I picked continued fractions over general infinite series because they're easier to apply algebra to < 1492552707 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computable reals normally use some sort of hyperbinary < 1492552714 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperbinary? < 1492552715 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :continued fractions is an interesting alternative < 1492552725 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: it's like binary but 2 is a legal digit too < 1492552728 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1492552736 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also do it with -1, that's more common when doing computable reals) < 1492552744 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't they be redundant though? < 1492552755 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, surely "0.2" in binary is just "1" < 1492552769 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's two halves < 1492552814 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same kind of binary as that chance of binary question < 1492552821 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :02 == 10 < 1492552832 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still interested though < 1492553107 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1492553109 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51780&oldid=51772 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+4) 10/* Overview */ Modified the K construct < 1492553135 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can use the K construct in K to define pi. in fact, the example does. < 1492553202 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the ?: conditional is right-associative so "a<2 ? 0 : a<4 ? 1 : 2" is "a<2 ? 0 : (a<4 ? 1 : 2)", much more useful than the alternative < 1492553307 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51781&oldid=51780 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-2) 10/* Overview */ Modified spacing in the example < 1492554214 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1492554269 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: yes having 3 binary digits is redundant, but it solves the problem of what digit to produce after 0. if you have a number that is very close to 1/2: you produce 0.10000 and if the number is less than 1/2 after all, you can still express that using a -1 digit. < 1492554317 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0.10000... is slightly less than 0.1? < 1492554325 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :where 1 is -1 < 1492554354 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1492554369 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually let me use +,0,- for the digits. 0.+0000000000- is slightly less than 1/2. < 1492554392 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0+++++++++++ is the same thing < 1492554396 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that you can distinguish the abbreviation for SI kilobytes from that of true ~scotsmen~ kilobytes because the former is "kB" and the latter is "KB" < 1492554411 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: sure, there's redundancy < 1492554411 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, the other day someone mentioned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_base_13_function < 1492554413 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], depends which one is true < 1492554426 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the true one 1000 or 1024? < 1492554428 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: in general, equality of computable reals cannot be established! < 1492554450 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the problem whether two computable real numbers are equal is undecidable) < 1492554459 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: perhaps < 1492554462 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Implicitly, true kilobytes are the ones that aren't SI < 1492554485 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that's basically a tautology, I was talking about which ones are 1024 bytes and which ones are 1000. < 1492554508 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/basically a tautology/trivial/ < 1492554528 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: SI kilobytes are 1000 bytes. True kilobytes are, as implied by "can distinguish from by...", the ones that aren't SI < 1492554569 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty. < 1492554575 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the information I was looking for < 1492554589 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer kibibytes vs kil8bytes over "true" and "si" < 1492554625 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is not a good prefix for 1024 < 1492554625 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the prefix for kibibytes is kiB < 1492554629 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefor, true kilobytes are something other than 1000 bytes, and since 1024 is the most common one that isn't 1000, True Kilobytes are likely 1024 < 1492554632 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potedecabyte? < 1492554642 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It is not, but that's pretty common < 1492554643 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin for power, latin for ten, and byte :P < 1492554643 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Isn't it KiB? < 1492554651 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not common either. < 1492554665 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the should the k be uppercase there? < 1492554666 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People use the prefix "K" to mean the same thing as "k". < 1492554684 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kiB, MiB, GiB, TiB < 1492554696 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is "KiB", although I don't think it should be. < 1492554728 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: talking such nonsense immediately exposes you as an american :p < 1492554739 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway network bandwidth is often measures in e.g. kbHz < 1492554744 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it KibHz? < 1492554745 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the true KBs should be called "decem secundum virtutem Dei" :P < 1492554747 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure now. < 1492554766 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, wait < 1492554778 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google translates English "kilobyte" into Latin "megabyte"> < 1492554786 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Windows, an OS with 90% of the world's PC market share, indicates file sizes with "KB"(, "MB", "GB", "TB", ...) and counts as 1024. < 1492554786 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistently, too < 1492554793 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefor, it's pretty common < 1492554799 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'µ' == 'µ' < 1492554802 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, well, an OS /family/) < 1492554811 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it doesn't use "k" to mean 1000. < 1492554812 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: being common has nothing to do with being right < 1492554820 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're mixing up two unrelated things. < 1492554829 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: But I wasn't saying it was right, I was saying it's common. < 1492554832 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm, what happened to it < 1492554834 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, yes, I see. < 1492554844 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Windows uses 1000... < 1492554855 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1492554860 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1492554877 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it would, people would not wonder about hdd sizes < 1492554892 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people know what a byte is, myname. < 1492554909 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need to < 1492554913 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind a bit. < 1492554921 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there's a couple of contexts that use MB for 1000*1024 bytes. < 1492554937 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1492554941 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the famous 3.5" floppy < 1492554957 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hast 1.44 kilokibibytes capacity < 1492554978 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :From now on, I'm referring to kibibytes as duadecabytes. < 1492554986 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2^10 bytes" < 1492555002 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Access to this virtual server has been restricted. The node is currently under maintenance. Please try again later"... huh. < 1492555002 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe bidecabytes.) < 1492555003 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a great example of why 1024 is a stupid number for that < 1492555005 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a common 3.5" floppy size is 1440 KiB, which often gets referred to as "1.44 MB". < 1492555005 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1492555018 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :In packaging, for example. < 1492555031 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Saying that you're worthless as a defense against other people calling you worthless is not a good strategy. < 1492555031 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ridiculous. < 1492555047 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Agreed. But I have nothing else. < 1492555057 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (k|Ki?)[Bb]⋅Hz is a unit of data flow rate, is it not? < 1492555064 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better to just not say anything. < 1492555072 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that I'm hard to deal with, but I can't help being here. < 1492555085 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I try to cope. < 1492555087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can help being here. But my objection isn't to you being here. < 1492555091 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that'd my default strategy, damn < 1492555116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Hz is sometimes written as ps < 1492555128 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: On the plus side, what I said was an esoteric username. :P < 1492555128 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492555145 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: http://slbkbs.org/kj-volunteers.txt hth < 1492555152 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Answer: Yes, but it's a little weird to think about) < 1492555165 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's not the excerpt I was thinking of but it's similar. < 1492555305 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1492555316 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe only the beginning is similar. < 1492555317 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. < 1492555318 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emergency hardware maintenance", well just peachy. < 1492555331 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta maintain your emergency hardware < 1492555337 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case there's an emergency sometime < 1492555344 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : rdococ: Saying that you're worthless as a defense against other people calling you worthless is not a good strategy. <-- OK, did I miss something? Where did rdococ say that?? < 1492555351 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple times. < 1492555354 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did a message get dropped or something < 1492555372 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], it's fine. < 1492555387 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, esolangs.org doesn't seem to be loading. < 1492555393 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: No, not because I really care, just because it's weird that I can't seem to find the context < 1492555408 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik. < 1492555439 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to connect to esolangs.org. < 1492555466 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Same here < 1492555522 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nothing I can do about it now... let's hope lambdabot recovers by itself (it really should provided the VM data remains intact). < 1492555534 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You could move it to another machine. < 1492555546 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I think that even using 2^10 (or really, 2^13 if you count bitwise) as a mile marker for data is still too arbitrary < 1492555576 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can connect to esolangs.org but I don't get a response < 1492555578 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Perhaps, but it is double 512. < 1492555592 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: 2^9. Also arbitrary. < 1492555599 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: And that's double 2^8. < 1492555607 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: perhaps, but sleep takes priority. < 1492555624 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: 2^8 or 2^16 make more logical markers IMO, or maybe 2^12 if we need something in that range < 1492555626 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Did you jam any good jams lately? < 1492555636 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: What should we call them then? < 1492555644 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bytebytes? < 1492555645 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 8 is just 2^3 < 1492555646 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: GOOD QUESTION < 1492555648 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octabytes. < 1492555661 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished thimbleweed park, I think that's basically the only gaming achievement for the past month. < 1492555668 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I finished that too. < 1492555672 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I've heard that there are other food-related metaphors for data < 1492555681 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did need a walkthrough at one point though. < 1492555683 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 bits is a n[iy]bble, 2 bits is a crumb < 1492555688 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Nibbles < 1492555702 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nybble could be 8*4 bytes. < 1492555719 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would they be nybles? < 1492555833 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^(2^3) < 1492555868 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1492555869 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 8 bytes should be 1 cookie < 1492555889 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1492555949 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 64 bits = 8 bytes = 1 hexabit, for 2^6 = 64 < 1492555963 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1492555967 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy! < 1492555969 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492555981 0 :orby!60eaeacb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.234.234.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: hello < 1492555989 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ello. < 1492556024 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 bits = 1 byte = 1 tribit, 64 bits = 8 bytes = 1 hexabit, 512 bits = 8 hexabits = 1 nonabit? < 1492556099 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Serprex14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51782&oldid=51648 5* 03Serprex 5* (+88) 1026647 < 1492556238 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: A tribit has to be 3 bits hth. < 1492556261 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: better: it's 2^3 bits :P < 1492556272 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm aiming for esoteric here now < 1492556272 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I got that, but it's still stupid. < 1492556282 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not esoteric, that's just confusing. < 1492556356 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about all the major esolangs: brainfuck, the Fungeoids, Thue, Underload, Unlambda, and Malbolge < 1492556366 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esoteria isn't in that it's confusing, it's in that "Xbits" referring to "2^x bits" is an unusual naming scheme... < 1492556376 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's confusing, but it's unusual < 1492556379 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm... < 1492556393 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I can't replicate them, you know that. < 1492556405 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I know, I can't either, I'm just using them as an example < 1492556412 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3 of them are very straightforward to understand, if a bit difficult to use < 1492556415 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be creative, but I don't know how to. < 1492556427 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I think that's what life is. < 1492556439 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda isn't as easy to understand (since you need to know Combinatory Logic), but it isn't complicated < 1492556467 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think you calling my idea "stupid" was a little uncalled for :/ < 1492556476 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about this: it's not a BF derivative. < 1492556486 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's not an esolang. < 1492556492 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :..nvm. < 1492556504 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry. < 1492556505 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Sorry, it's just not a very good scheme :/ < 1492556525 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be better if I tried to make it clearer? < 1492556531 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge is pretty much impossible to understand for a human mind, but it's still easy to understand in a rather Hofstadterian way: you get that it's really complicated and hard (if not impossible) for a human brain to understand < 1492556559 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Have you ever seen LOLCODE? That's what you want to avoid: don't just use crazy names for normal concepts < 1492556559 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1492556578 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: True, but that's going to be extremely hard in what is basically an esoteric naming scheme. < 1492556615 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: At least my names weren't just messed up versions of the originals. < 1492556677 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can create a program that takes an esolang candidate and- without much difficulty (exempli gratia lexer, simplified string manipulation, reconcatenate)- turns it into a rather typical language that wouldn't count as an esolang, then it's not an esolang < 1492556677 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to walk now < 1492556677 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1492556677 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-78.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH < 1492557092 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1492557199 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write a brainfuck to x86 compiler in brainfuck? < 1492557208 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1492557210 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF is TC < 1492557225 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have a cell number & a cell size limit < 1492557226 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you compile a brainfuck to x86 compiler in a brainfuck to x86 compiler? < 1492557241 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a compiler isn't a language < 1492557249 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1492557249 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1492557250 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1492557251 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1492557252 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1492557257 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soni: have you seen AWIB? < 1492557265 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWIB? < 1492557272 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Awib < 1492557295 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to resort to "it's TC so it can be done in theory", it's been done in practice < 1492557356 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so brainfuck is self-hosting, yes? < 1492557369 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e it's called < 1492557383 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being self-hosting is only a property of a language-implementation pair < 1492557385 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awib is self-hosting < 1492557391 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is just a language < 1492557406 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say "brainfuck is capable of self-hosting", but then all IO-complete languages are < 1492557474 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write a sed compiler (yes, compiler, not interpreter) in sed? < 1492557539 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although it would be an utterly frustrating thing to do < 1492557560 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages that low-level don't really like compiling regexes < 1492557572 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rio de Janiero is great, but I don't like having Jesus looking over my shoulder all the time < 1492557601 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it this way: you can write a BF interpreter in sed, right? so you can write a sed compiler in BF, and then hardcode that program inro the BF-interpeter-in-sed < 1492557602 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*into < 1492557619 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't normally refer to this sort of arrangement when they talk about "self-hosting" because it's a) a pain to maintain, and b) really inefficient < 1492557630 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does work, and it's often the only real way to get anything done in esolangs < 1492557650 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window < 1492557747 0 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1492557990 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1492557999 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a language that's just a truth table? < 1492558008 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :bi < 1492558009 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1492558010 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's dumv < 1492558011 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb < 1492558275 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1492559129 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1492559476 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rule14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51783 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1482) 10Created page with "'''Rule''' is a slide-rule-based esoteric programming language by [[User:Rdococ]]. == Overview == Rule's main esoteric gimmick is that it operates on a slide rule with multip..." < 1492559504 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rule14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51784&oldid=51783 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ < 1492559561 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1492559583 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rule14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51785&oldid=51784 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+145) 10squaring < 1492559614 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whaja think? < 1492559643 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51786&oldid=51770 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+80) 10/* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */