←2017-05-06 2017-05-07 2017-05-08→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:00:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51878&oldid=51877 * H3amza * (+1312) added section on functions.
00:01:50 <zzo38> What question do you have of M:tG? The rules have been improved a lot since the original version; they are much more logical and mathematically elegant and so on than it used to be, although still there are problems they will probably never fix. The change to split cards rules makes sense, and when they changed madness also it makes sense (and I have idea if a puzzle can then require a different solution in the old or new rule)
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00:03:46 <wob_jonas> Yes, the improved split card rules are much better than the old ones -- though I still sort of feel some tension because split cards are still strange rules-wise, but at the same time some split cards are nice and I want to use them (the old ones and fuse ones at least, not the new after math ones)
00:04:12 <wob_jonas> Most of the things I like in split cards could be done almost as well without split cards, mind you, but those just haven't been printed.
00:04:48 <wob_jonas> Specifically, I'd like Trial as a non-split card.
00:04:52 <zzo38> Actually I agree it is a bit strange.
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00:05:16 <wob_jonas> Mind you, it's a stupid card, it should never have been printed, but once they printed it as a split card, I'd like it as a non-split card.
00:05:48 <zzo38> As well as fuse and aftermath, there is a few card I made up having "fuseback" (meaning you can (and must) fuse it only casting from the graveyard, and then it is exiled after it leaves the stack if you do that).
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00:06:40 <wob_jonas> Fuse is fine, but I hate aftermath.
00:07:52 <zzo38> I have also seen someone made up a permanent split card.
00:09:15 <zzo38> OK if that is what you like and what you hate, but then what of fuseback?
00:09:33 <wob_jonas> Anyway, first an un-rules question. I use Blacker Lotus's ability to tear up a card and exile the pieces. Are the pieces a card? The comp rules used to have a sort of definition of what a card is, but they removed that. What happens if the opponent tries to use Cryptic Cruiser or Pull from Eternity on it?
00:10:29 <zzo38> I can use the definition of "card" that I want, but it still won't help. I think there is no answer. (It is a un-rules question anyways; such questions do not always have answers.)
00:13:14 <wob_jonas> A second un-rules question. In un-games, when a rule or effect asks you to choose a number (including for damage assignment), you can choose a half-integer. This rule can affect games even if there's no sliver-bordered card anywhere. Is this the *only* such rule difference between un-games and normal games?
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00:13:55 <alercah> wob_jonas: no, choice of colour
00:14:06 <wob_jonas> alercah: ah! good point
00:14:06 <alercah> becase avatar of me can have non-traditional colors
00:14:12 <wob_jonas> hazel or brown color
00:14:14 <wob_jonas> yeah
00:16:49 <zzo38> (Even with my definition of a "card", it is unclear whether or not tearing the card is considered as a kind-changing effect, and even if it is not (which would seem by default), it does not specify what to do if you use Pull From Eternity and stuff like that.)
00:18:14 <wob_jonas> Perhaps even creature types differ, as in you can choose Donkey as a creature type in an un-game but not in normal games, but that will rarely change anything, it only matters when almost all creature types are potentially in use in the game.
00:18:55 <zzo38> Yes. Probably in un-cards you could use more creature types too.
00:21:58 <zzo38> When playing Un-cards, there is no "proper" rules, only improper rules.
00:25:26 <zzo38> And then there are various unofficial Un-cards such as these http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/uncards.txt and also some meaningless RoboRosewater cards, and then is even more confusing to figure out how to do it!
00:25:57 <wob_jonas> I have normal (non-un) rules question too.
00:26:29 <zzo38> OK, what question?
00:26:56 <wob_jonas> wait, I'm trying to fine a sane example
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00:27:18 <wob_jonas> ok, here
00:29:11 <wob_jonas> I have an animated Muse Vessel and an Experiment Kraj. The Vessel gets a +1/+1 counter, then I use the first Vessel ability on Kraj, then the Vessel loses all counters, then later the Vessel gets a +1/+1 counter again, then can I use the second Vessel ability of the Kraj and access the card I exiled?
00:31:56 <zzo38> I think so, if you use it on Experiment Kraj. (But you can ask again to someone else later I suppose)
00:32:10 <wob_jonas> 607.5 is probably the relevant rule
00:32:27 <zzo38> The rules are not clear enough to me it seems. But I will look at 607.5 now
00:32:50 <wob_jonas> You can get a weirder version where instead of removing the counters, the Vessel phases out then later phases in.
00:33:36 <zzo38> Yes, although it remains the same object in that case I will think. I think there are things that could be made clearer, including to consider an object's text as its AST; I think that would help a lot of things
00:34:07 <wob_jonas> Or the Vessel gets Cytoshaped to an elephant, then the shaping times out; or the Vessel gets turned to a frog.
00:34:34 <zzo38> Yes, there is stuff like that.
00:35:07 <wob_jonas> I'd like to have some comprehensive rule of how linked abilities work when an object can gain and lose it.
00:36:55 <zzo38> Yes, that would help. You could make the suggestions, maybe. My own idea would be for the link to be part of the AST of the definition of those abilities, so they are linked in that way. You would then have to make up the mathematical model of it and then it can be clear.
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00:51:26 <wob_jonas> Ok, that's all the questions I have for today. Maybe more later. Good night.
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01:00:51 <oerjan> `cwlprits emacs
01:01:06 <HackEgo> shachäf
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01:52:35 <shachaf> oerjan: ?
01:53:48 <oerjan> shachaf: just checking if you overwrote anything
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02:54:01 <boily> `w
02:54:03 <HackEgo> mpiler//An mpiler takes an executable file and nverts it to readable form.
02:54:23 <boily> mmmmpile you say ♪
02:54:46 <oerjan> mmmboily
02:56:57 <boily> ørjannn.
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02:57:57 <oerjan> my haskell is becoming steadily more evil
02:58:10 <oerjan> > let f n=mapM(["<","~<~"]<$f)[1..n]!!n>>=id in f 10
02:58:12 <lambdabot> "<<<<<<~<~<~<~<"
02:59:00 <oerjan> now to PPCG ->
03:00:22 <boily> but, what's the point of dekolmogorofying a perfectly valid and simple string?
03:01:15 <oerjan> dekolmogorofying?
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03:01:44 <oerjan> it's a function, not a string hth
03:01:59 <Zarutian> boily: does that involve using karnough maps in reverse?
03:02:38 <boily> oerjan: oh. uh. eeeegh. uuuuurgh. evil, I say.
03:03:09 <oerjan> also the initial <s are redundant, but makes this solution work.
03:03:11 <boily> Zarutellon. yup, untabling the stuff.
03:03:40 <boily> oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity
03:06:49 <boily> `w
03:06:50 <HackEgo> indexed monad//Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.
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05:40:49 <Warrigal> Turboprop, turbojet, turbofan.
05:41:09 <Warrigal> Out of those three types of airplane engines, two of them are jet engines.
05:42:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51879&oldid=51878 * H3amza * (+14) title lowercase
05:42:23 <zzo38> Then what is the others ones?
05:44:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51880&oldid=51879 * H3amza * (+5) /* External resources */ fixed link
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06:14:30 <\oren\> zzo38: a turboprop works instead by having a gas turbine engine power a conventional aircraft propeller
06:14:54 <\oren\> they are, for some reason, popular in russia
06:15:33 <zzo38> O, OK
06:15:50 <\oren\> for example, the Tu-95 Bear bombers
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06:55:22 <zzo38> As well as for sometimes helping with compression, Paeth encoding can also be used for special effects such as this one: http://zzo38computer.org/img_19/example1.png
07:07:21 <zzo38> Do you like this?
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10:11:27 <int-e> why does https://xkcd.com/1647/ remind me of this channel
10:12:30 <Taneb> int-e, nӧone knows
10:13:10 <int-e> shachaf: so apparently there are four islands in SSR
10:19:13 <int-e> hmm, maybe not, I missed one end.
10:20:51 <rdococ> ø
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10:21:24 <rdococ> herkinglo.
10:24:38 <int-e> but so there is a fifth part.
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12:19:47 <rdococ> hi
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12:39:55 <rdococ> hoily
12:48:18 <rdococ> HOILY!
12:52:05 <boily> rdochellooooooooooooc!
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13:01:44 <rdococ> DHelloshooooooooooooooot!
13:03:45 <rdococ> Yay!
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13:14:57 <DHeadshot> hellrdococ!
13:16:08 <rdococ> DHelloshot!
13:19:13 * DHeadshot is surprised anyone is that pleased to see him...
13:22:32 <rdococ> I'm pleased to see anyone tbh.
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13:44:54 <rdococ> hi tromp
13:45:14 <tromp> hi
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13:56:38 <rdococ> ih
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14:07:36 <tromp> afk to Go tournament
14:11:01 <rdococ> heh
14:11:48 <boily> trellomp. you play go?
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14:23:20 <rdococ> I think he has gone already
14:28:00 * boily mapoles rdococ
14:28:42 * rdococ birches boily
14:29:40 <rdococ> hoily
14:35:32 <rdococ> HOILY
14:36:29 <boily> I am here.
14:36:40 <rdococ> YAY
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14:45:52 <mroman> I just read the average human eats 1.8kg of food per day
14:45:57 <mroman> and I was like WHAT?
14:46:05 <mroman> Then I read the average for US is 2.7kg
14:46:10 <mroman> And WTF
14:46:26 <mroman> Who eats 3kg of food per day
14:46:33 <mroman> @massages-liid
14:46:33 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
14:46:37 <mroman> @massages-loud
14:46:37 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 2m 15d 9h 28m 4s ago: tyvm
14:58:11 <boily> mrelloman. that's a pound and a third per meal. sounds way too high to me.
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15:01:08 <mroman> boily: It sounded way too high to me too.
15:01:46 <mroman> but 1.8kg sounds way more realistic than 2.7kg
15:01:55 <mroman> but it still sounds rather high
15:02:09 <mroman> but maybe that's due to poor countries who might only have low-calory foods
15:02:36 <mroman> that's what I thought.
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15:02:48 <mroman> but if the US average is 2.7kg then uhm
15:03:17 <mroman> but I could imagine that poor countries eat a bit more food but low-calory food. I haven't really managed to confirm any of this
15:03:29 <mroman> though
15:05:09 <int-e> > 1000/365
15:05:12 <lambdabot> 2.73972602739726
15:10:58 <boily> mroman: that the average American citizen consumes six pounds per day doesn't surprise me much. every time I cross the borders I get fatter :/
15:11:14 <boily> int-ello.
15:11:48 <mroman> how the hell can you eat 3kg :(
15:11:59 <int-e> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2011/12/31/144478009/the-average-american-ate-literally-a-ton-this-year <-- the funny thing is... the numbers in the article don't match up at all with the numbers in the link to the US D.A. site. Summing their numbers results in a much more reasonable 1.3kg estimate, excluding drinks.
15:12:00 <mroman> 100g meat, 100g rice/pasta, 100g vegetable
15:12:03 <mroman> that's a standard meal
15:12:09 <mroman> 300g
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15:12:52 <mroman> 2.7kg per day sounds like complete bullshit
15:14:21 <int-e> mroman: the number is almost certainly bullshit. I bet the "americans eat 1t of food per year" headline is the actual source for that data.
15:14:27 <int-e> "data"
15:14:53 <int-e> Now... if you include drinks... that changes the picture entirely. Perhaps they did that.
15:15:11 <mroman> drinks yes
15:15:14 <mroman> 1.5l a day
15:15:17 <mroman> is 1.5kg a day
15:15:20 <mroman> > 365*1.5
15:15:23 <lambdabot> 547.5
15:15:29 <mroman> > 1.5+1.3
15:15:31 <lambdabot> 2.8
15:15:40 <mroman> that would add up yes
15:16:47 <mroman> that would fit a ton almost perfectly
15:17:42 <int-e> (the 1.3kg number isn't very exact. The tables measure vegetable intake in cups... useless.)
15:27:34 <mroman> 1.3kg sounds reasonable though
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15:43:43 <FireFly> huh, I never thought about it
15:43:50 <FireFly> well
15:43:57 <FireFly> I never thought about how much I drink compared to how much I eat
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15:56:39 <Warrigal> int-e: didn't you know that cups are the new SI unit for vegetables?
15:57:35 <Warrigal> The base units are the meter (length), the kilogram (mass), the second (time), the amp (current), the kelvin (temperature), the mole (amount of substance), the candela (luminous intensity), and the cup (vegetables).
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16:05:02 <oerjan> a cuppa carrots
16:10:57 <rdococ> hmm
16:10:58 <rdococ> tasty
16:11:04 <rdococ> what is 1 cup though?
16:11:16 <rdococ> is it like drinking cups, or...?
16:11:44 <rdococ> also, fruit should be measured in saucers
16:11:53 <rdococ> and meat should be measured in coffee machines
16:12:26 <oerjan> and non sequiturs should be measured in orangutans
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16:31:27 <boily> Warrigello, hellørjan, hellorkin.
16:32:00 <boily> rdococ: a cup is eight fluid ounces, but it gets rounded to eg. 250 ml in Canada, and 200 ml in Japan.
16:32:13 <boily> (there are other places that do rounding, but I forget which.)
16:32:31 <oerjan> bood afternoily
16:32:51 <boily> the main difference between recipes here and France is that we do (almost) everything by volume, and they do it by weight.
16:34:47 <boily> that, and oven temperatures. 350 is natural. 175 makes no sense.
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17:20:37 <rdococ> lol
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17:31:28 <doesthiswork> regular expressions are state machines. loops are also state machines. Why should they have different syntax?
17:32:15 <Phantom_Hoover> how are loops state machines
17:34:29 <doesthiswork> I don't know, I may have had too much to drink
17:36:07 <doesthiswork> but it looks as though there are two states to a loop, looping and finished
17:43:01 <Phantom_Hoover> there's a lot of other state in a loop
17:43:28 <Phantom_Hoover> e.g. int i = 0; while(0) { i++; } has infinitely many states
17:43:36 <Phantom_Hoover> unlike regexes which are finite-state machines
17:45:56 <zzo38> Can a variant of a regular expression to be made where it is possible to define infinite families of states?
17:46:09 <doesthiswork> I'll try pushing all the infinite out of the model and calling it inputs
17:47:10 <doesthiswork> so the machinery puts it into a finite number of equivalency classes
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18:16:46 <Phantom_Hoover> doesthiswork, that's... not how it works
18:17:01 <doesthiswork> you're right
18:17:25 <Phantom_Hoover> this is literally the difference between being turing complete and not
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18:43:18 <boily> `w
18:43:21 <HackEgo> fungot//fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
18:43:25 <APic> *shrug*
18:43:43 <boily> APHic.
18:44:02 <APic> Yo.
18:44:09 * APic has no Hiccup at the Moment.
18:44:10 <APic> Shall i have?
18:45:56 <boily> well, your nick is difficult to porthello...
18:46:08 <boily> APHelloc maybe?
18:48:13 <rdococ> HeyPic
18:48:28 <boily> rdochelloc. HeyPic is good.
18:49:18 <APic> Yo
18:49:21 <rdococ> hoily, heypic
18:49:40 <rdococ> Phantom_Heyver
19:02:06 <Taneb> bonsoirly
19:05:22 <boily> Tanelle!
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19:15:26 <rdococ> doesthellork: hi
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20:14:13 <\oren\> I lost several pounds being in japan for only two weeks
20:14:25 <\oren\> everyhting is tiny in japan
20:15:29 <\oren\> also, they don't add sugar to everything. a "black iced coffee" is something that only exists in japan to my knowledge
20:21:32 <boily> ヘ\\オレン\!
20:21:38 <boily> where are you at?
20:23:02 <\oren\> currently? toronto.
20:23:43 <boily> oh. I thought you were still there.
20:23:46 <\oren\> I should see if starbucks even sells unsweetened iced coffee
20:24:16 <boily> did you enjoy your time over there?
20:25:37 <\oren\> of course
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23:06:26 <Sgeo> "NꙮW WITH MꙮRE MULTIꙮCULAR ꙮ
23:06:26 <Sgeo> "
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