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00:45:45 <boily> `w
00:45:46 <HackEgo> fternooner//fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
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00:47:05 <shachaf> I Have No Mouth, and I Must Eat Screamingly Delicious Pastries
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00:57:32 <shachaf> `5 w
00:57:38 <HackEgo> 1/2:block device//Block devices are a concession made in Unix to make raw hard disks and magnetic tape have a similar interface to regular files and terminals. Since magnetic tapes can't write individual bytes, only entire blocks, the interface isn't exactly the same, thus the dreaded dd obs= option was born. \ 0//702 matching entries found. \ pizz
00:57:41 <shachaf> `n
00:57:42 <HackEgo> 2/2:a//Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb. \ sgeolang//Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place. \ postfridgerator//Postfridgerators are what we'll use once global warming really takes hold.
00:58:02 <shachaf> `cwlprits block device
00:58:11 <HackEgo> b_jonäs
00:58:11 <shachaf> shocking
00:58:26 <shachaf> Sgeo: Is Sgeolang still Rust?
00:58:49 <Sgeo> shachaf, yes
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01:16:22 <\oren\> Hmm, on my way home from work a terrible/great idea occurred to me
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01:25:25 <boily> he\\oren\. what happened into your mind?
01:41:04 <boily> \oren\ seems to have been consumed by insanity. a sad affair. “never go full insane,” I say.
01:46:59 <Cale> What is this divine hell?
01:50:05 <boily> there are things men and fungots aren't meant to know, much less glance upon. deep into unfathomable meanders, across currents only felt, never touched...
01:50:05 <fungot> boily: of course, but sh is broadly very portable. especially when compared to scheme
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01:51:05 <boily> heed the Wisdom of the fungot. hear its bedazzled grunts, words spoken without a mouth. (and an as of yet unknown amount of nostrils.)
01:51:05 <fungot> boily: you know this already), were my patches no good? :) htmlprag?
01:52:40 <boily> I know, but can't recall. it is ingrained too profound, my mind the overgrown ruins that jut above a derelict plain, windswept by a shrill breeze.
01:53:22 <boily> (speaking of breeze, I should unclothesline the laundry. the sun has set.)
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01:59:12 * boily prods \oren\ with his mapole. “you alive?”
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02:26:59 <\oren\> Assuming that languages like esperanto, lojban, toki pona etc are capable of the full range of human expression
02:27:05 <\oren\> boily: ^
02:27:12 <\oren\> Then it must be possible to write pornography in them
02:27:26 <\oren\> and I was wondering if anyone had done so
02:27:57 <boily> most probably so.
02:28:42 <\oren\> yeah it turns out if you just put esperanto pornography into bing image search...
02:29:38 <alercah> images have language now?
02:29:51 <\oren\> someone made a MLP porn comic with dialogue in esperanto
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02:30:34 <boily> I don't want to know.
02:30:41 <boily> hellorcah!
02:32:00 <zzo38> I made a program for Worley/Voronoi partitioning but it is slow and I think maybe could be made to be faster, perhaps if the points are stored sorted and with a limited range per scanline to search in, although I would have to see how to make those ranges then.
02:37:04 <zzo38> (Especially since different metrics can be used, as well as different n-th close point, this can do something.)
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07:09:25 <shachaf> Hmm: "The function f is continuous at x if f(x + ε) = f(x) + o(1)"
07:09:55 <shachaf> Is that right?
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09:21:41 <int-e> shachaf: it could be correct but leaves too much implicit . o O ( also this reply may be a bit too late to be useful )
09:23:17 <int-e> (basically you still have to say that ε is supposed to approach 0 and that this is used as the implicit limit in the o notation)
09:25:56 <int-e> And now I'm wondering whether anybody writes o_{\epsilon \to 0}(1)
09:25:56 <int-e> (I haven't seen anything (afair) like this but it does seem to make sense)
09:26:29 <shachaf> This was from https://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/donald-knuth-calculus-via-o-notation/
09:26:49 <shachaf> Which suggests introducing o() before limits.
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09:29:13 <shachaf> What if you treat o as an operator on functions?
09:29:32 <shachaf> I guess it would be o(0)(f)
09:29:37 <shachaf> Or o(f)(0)?
09:29:53 <shachaf> There's the limit operator L : (R -> R) -> (R -> R)
09:30:33 <shachaf> Lf(x) = lim_{y \to x}{f(y)}
09:30:57 <shachaf> What are the properties of L?
09:31:04 <shachaf> I asked some questions about this a while ago but I forgot them.
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09:34:32 <int-e> I expect L(f) is continuous on its domain (which will be smaller than the domain of f if f is not continuous)
09:35:11 <shachaf> Smaller?
09:35:20 <shachaf> The domain of Lf could be larger.
09:35:47 <shachaf> "f is continuous" means "f = Lf"
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11:37:41 <boily> `w
11:37:43 <HackEgo> muphrys law//Mumphrie's Law says things will be misspelled at the worst possible moment.
11:45:25 <int-e> shachaf: Lf is not defined at x if f is discontinuous at x.
11:45:31 <int-e> ... I see what you mean
11:45:42 <int-e> so it'll be incomparible actually
11:46:15 <int-e> and, surprisingly, not idempotent. subtle.
11:47:31 <int-e> (start with f(0) = 1, f(x) = 0 otherwise; Lf will be undefined at 0 and 0 everywhere else; LLf will equal 0 everywhere)
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12:43:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Insanity *  New user account
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13:21:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52086&oldid=52073 * Insanity * (+208) Added why I am here (Insanity) and a short description of myself.
13:22:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ImageFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52087 * Insanity * (+1628) Add Imagefuck
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13:23:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Insanity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52088 * Insanity * (+211) Created page with "Hi there!  I'm the creator of [[ImageFuck]], a [[Brainfuck]]-like language that executes code based on the colours of the pixels in am image. More about me can be found on my..."
13:23:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Insanity]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52089&oldid=52088 * Insanity * (+12) 
13:24:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52090&oldid=52075 * Insanity * (+16) Add ImageFuck to language list
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15:21:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52091&oldid=52083 * Raddish0 * (+187) added more content
15:28:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52092&oldid=52091 * Raddish0 * (+124) Add the commands 'r', and 'c'. changed the examples accordingly
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15:50:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Raddish0]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52093&oldid=50739 * Raddish0 * (+918) Added a LOT of stuff about myself
15:54:16 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> (start with f(0) = 1, f(x) = 0 otherwise; Lf will be undefined at 0 and 0 everywhere else; LLf will equal 0 everywhere) <-- i don't think so, the limit usually excludes the point itself so it's 0 everywhere from the start.
15:54:16 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
15:54:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52094&oldid=52090 * Raddish0 * (+12) 
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15:56:33 <oerjan> @tell int-e What you can probably achieve is a function such that Lf is defined only at one point, and then L(Lf) nowhere. But on the intersection of their domain, i think Lf and L(Lf) must be equal.
15:56:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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15:58:44 <int-e> . o O ( @tell is so useless )
15:58:58 <oerjan> @ask int-e OKAY?
15:58:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
15:59:11 * int-e kicks oerjan
15:59:16 <oerjan> ow
15:59:44 <int-e> what's that don't ask don't tell list again
15:59:47 * oerjan now memorized third verse of Moscow Nights
16:00:00 <oerjan> `dontaskdonttelllist
16:00:02 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ m​y​n​a​m​e​
16:00:21 <int-e> `` echo int-e >> bin/dontaskdonttelllist
16:00:25 <HackEgo> No output.
16:00:40 <int-e> (there's a command for that as well but I forget)
16:04:06 <int-e> Anyway, meh. I wonder how universal that agreement is, I'm pretty sure I was taught a different definition in highschool.
16:04:53 <int-e> (we had left-sided and right-sided limits too that did exclude the limit point itself)
16:05:57 <oerjan> if you don't you need to be careful when defining derivatives
16:06:36 <int-e> well, points where the function was undefined were excluded as well
16:06:40 <int-e> so that's fine.
16:06:56 <oerjan> SOUNDS COMPLICATED
16:07:11 <int-e> if you say so
16:07:45 <oerjan> anyway
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16:43:03 <kerbal> What, in you guys' opinion, is the strangest esoteric language?
16:44:31 <zzo38> I don't know
16:55:18 <kerbal> Ah
16:55:43 <kerbal> Anyone want to try mine? It's called Integ. The Python 3 interpreter's at https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ
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17:12:58 <zzo38> You can write in esolang wiki if it isn't already, but, I will look on there thank you
17:15:10 <kerbal> Ah, sorry
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17:36:44 <shachaf> int-e: Why is Lf undefined at 0? lim_{x -> 0}{f(x)} = 0, isn't it?
17:37:11 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, what oerjan said.
17:37:49 <shachaf> The limit of a function at a point has nothing to do with the value of the function at that point, only nearby points.
17:38:21 <shachaf> OK, you have a different definition.
17:41:40 <shachaf> int-e: I think a standard definition is, lim_{x -> c}{f(x)} = L means that the function f' equal to f everywhere except c, and defined as f'(c) = L, is continuous at c.
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17:45:01 <wob_jonas> zzo38: in the docs about MMIX, Knuth mentions that there could be a cheap impl of MMIX where the hardware doesn't know about the structure of the page table trie, and all page table lookups are handled in kernel mode software fault routines. \
17:46:31 <wob_jonas> My question is: is it possible to have a cheap impl of MMIX where the hardware doesn't know how to spill the register stack to memory, so when the hardware register stack overflows upwards or underflows downwards, values are swapped in by a kernel mode software fault routine?
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17:47:53 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I am not sure, but I thought not.
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17:48:11 <wob_jonas> ok
17:50:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MMIX]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52095&oldid=51175 * B jonas * (+41) 
18:02:35 <zzo38> I have been working more on Z-machine implementation in MMIX. It may still contain some mistakes though
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18:41:48 <kerbal> !ztest Skewer +[->>[-]<+]
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18:42:42 <kerbal> !zjoust Skewer +[->>[-]<+]
18:43:17 <kerbal> Does zemhill not run anymore?
18:44:01 <wob_jonas> dunno
18:44:12 <wob_jonas> ^zjoust always_lose <
18:44:21 <wob_jonas> @zjoust always_lose <
18:44:21 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
18:44:22 <wob_jonas> `zjoust always_lose <
18:44:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: zjoust: not found
18:44:27 <\oren\> http://www.investopedia.com/news/more-bets-against-tesla-any-other-company-tsla-bac/
18:44:47 <\oren\> apparently everyone thinks tesla is overvalued
18:44:49 <kerbal> lambdabot
18:44:56 <kerbal> !lambdabot
18:45:09 <kerbal> @list
18:45:09 <lambdabot> What module?  Try @listmodules for some ideas.
18:45:13 <kerbal> @listmodules
18:45:13 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
18:45:13 <lambdabot> slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
18:45:41 <kerbal> @bf
18:45:41 <lambdabot>  Done.
18:45:54 <kerbal> How do you use this bot?
18:46:21 <kerbal> Does it have a zjoust module?
18:46:31 <wob_jonas> @bf ++++++[->+++++++<]>[.+]
18:46:32 <lambdabot>   *+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrst...
18:46:58 <int-e> > ['*'..]
18:47:00 <lambdabot>  "*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrs...
18:47:28 <kerbal> Hmm... but that won't do bf jousting
18:47:34 <int-e> it doesn't
18:47:41 <int-e> it's not meant to either
18:47:49 <wob_jonas> [ 42}.a.
18:47:50 <j-bot> wob_jonas: *+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ €‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ
18:47:59 <kerbal> Ah... so you can no longer do that in #esoteric?
18:49:04 <int-e> Probably not?
18:49:21 <wob_jonas> [ '...',~45{.42}.a.
18:49:21 <kerbal> The wiki must be wrong, then
18:49:21 <j-bot> wob_jonas: *+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUV...
18:49:39 <wob_jonas> [ '...',~74{.42}.a.
18:49:40 <j-bot> wob_jonas: *+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrs...
19:03:42 <kerbal> So, if the bots are nonexistent, then is it impossible for people to get their names on the zem.fi leaderboard?
19:04:03 <wob_jonas> isn't there another submission method, like through http?
19:05:02 <kerbal> You can do it on the website, but that "gives" your submission to the name "web."
19:07:23 <int-e> Exception: #<Errno::ECONNREFUSED: Connection refused - connect(2) for "/home/bfjoust/bfjoust/socket/server.sock">
19:07:31 <int-e> it's broken anyway. complain to fizzie :P
19:08:31 <kerbal> fizzie runs the bots?
19:08:49 <int-e> he runs bots
19:08:58 <kerbal> Ah
19:09:00 <int-e> not all of them.
19:09:57 <int-e> it's just HackEgo, fungot and zjoust (if it were there), as far as I'm aware.
19:09:57 <fungot> int-e: r6rs is at http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/ slavonic/ absurd.htm. take one down, pass them around
19:10:24 <int-e> `? bots
19:10:25 <HackEgo> bots? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:10:48 <kerbal> `?
19:10:50 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:10:55 -!- augur has joined.
19:11:05 <kerbal> `
19:11:05 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
19:11:19 <kerbal> (Sorry, just seeing what would happen)
19:12:07 -!- erkin has joined.
19:12:45 <int-e> `? prefixes
19:12:46 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
19:13:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:13:48 <kerbal> [help
19:13:58 <kerbal> [ help
19:13:58 <j-bot> kerbal: |value error: help
19:14:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:14:07 <kerbal> [ 
19:14:51 <wob_jonas> kerbal: http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Community/IRC gives some very obsolete info
19:16:39 <kerbal> Thanks!
19:25:04 <fizzie> Hmm.
19:25:40 <fizzie> I don't really "run" HackEgo, I just help out a little.
19:26:10 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yeah, that's what all unlucky people who become maintainers say at the start
19:26:14 <fizzie> Let me try to remember how on earth you actually started zemhill.
19:26:42 <fizzie> (There was some sort of a maintenance thing on DigitalOcean, that's why it's not up right now.)
19:27:48 -!- zemhill has joined.
19:27:55 <fizzie> I think maybe like that.
19:28:03 <fizzie> `ztest whatever <
19:28:04 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ztest: not found
19:28:10 <fizzie> !ztest whatever <
19:28:10 <zemhill> fizzie.whatever: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47
19:28:23 <kerbal> Thanks so much, fizzie!
19:28:37 <kerbal> Let me test my new design:
19:29:06 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*10>(+)*10>)*4([-]>)*-1
19:29:07 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -9.88, score 13.04, rank 42/47
19:29:19 <kerbal> Not great, but a start
19:29:50 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-][-].[-])*99
19:29:50 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -27.02, score 7.12, rank 47/47
19:29:58 <kerbal> !zjoust Checkers >((-)*10>(+)*10>)*4([-]>)*-
19:29:58 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -32.83, score 2.96, rank 47/47
19:30:11 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-][-][-].)*99
19:30:11 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -27.10, score 7.13, rank 47/47
19:30:13 <int-e> fizzie: yeah I know, but complaining you you is quicker than complaining to Gregor when HackEgo breaks ;)
19:30:15 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*10>(+)*10>)*4([-]>)*-1
19:30:16 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -9.88, score 13.04, rank 42/47 (+5)
19:30:18 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-][-][-])*99
19:30:18 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -26.29, score 7.34, rank 47/47
19:30:23 <int-e> s/you you/to you/
19:30:26 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-][-][.-])*99
19:30:27 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -24.69, score 7.81, rank 47/47
19:30:36 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[.-][-][-])*99
19:30:36 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -24.62, score 7.83, rank 47/47
19:30:42 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[.-][-])*99
19:30:42 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -23.62, score 7.90, rank 47/47
19:30:46 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[.-].)*99
19:30:46 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -24.12, score 7.74, rank 47/47
19:30:49 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[.-])*99
19:30:49 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -24.31, score 7.35, rank 47/47
19:30:54 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[.-][.-])*99
19:30:54 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -23.48, score 7.91, rank 47/47
19:30:58 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[.-][-.])*99
19:30:59 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -22.98, score 8.12, rank 47/47
19:31:02 <int-e> ... does zemhill work in privmsg?
19:31:02 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-.])*99
19:31:03 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -22.90, score 8.43, rank 47/47
19:31:11 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-..])*99
19:31:12 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -22.50, score 8.81, rank 47/47
19:31:15 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-...])*99
19:31:15 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -21.31, score 8.96, rank 47/47
19:31:19 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-..][-...])*99
19:31:19 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -23.88, score 7.74, rank 47/47
19:31:25 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-][-...])*99
19:31:25 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -23.38, score 8.05, rank 47/47
19:31:30 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-....])*99
19:31:31 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -25.14, score 7.60, rank 47/47
19:31:33 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-.....])*99
19:31:34 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -20.81, score 9.23, rank 47/47
19:31:37 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-......])*99
19:31:37 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -22.64, score 8.74, rank 47/47
19:31:41 <wob_jonas> !ztest dumb (>[-.][-.....])*99
19:31:42 <zemhill> wob_jonas.dumb: points -20.81, score 9.23, rank 47/47
19:31:42 <fizzie> I should probably have monitoring and alerts on that thing, I've been adding that sort of thing to other things as well.
19:31:45 <int-e> wob_jonas: STOP!
19:31:48 <wob_jonas> ok
19:32:19 <int-e> thanks
19:33:43 <shachaf> int-e: hint-e
19:33:52 <shachaf> So much spam.
19:34:58 <shachaf> fizzie: What sorts of monitoring?
19:35:04 <shachaf> Is L a linear operator?
19:35:08 <shachaf> I guess it is.
19:35:40 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*4([-]>)*-1
19:35:40 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -5.67, score 18.51, rank 17/47 (+30)
19:36:10 <kerbal> That's not terrible, actually
19:36:31 <fizzie> shachaf: Maybe I could add a /metrics endpoint to it. Or a black-box probe. Or both.
19:36:55 -!- jjthrash has joined.
19:37:08 <shachaf> Unfortunately Prometheus /metrics only supports floating point values for time series.
19:37:24 <shachaf> It should support any metric space.
19:38:39 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:38:39 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -6.19, score 17.96, rank 19/47 (+28)
19:39:00 <kerbal> jjthrash: hi
19:41:08 <jjthrash> Hey there
19:41:45 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:41:48 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*5>(+)*5>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:41:48 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -15.40, score 12.13, rank 46/47 (+1)
19:41:57 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*25>(+)*25>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:41:58 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -7.52, score 13.46, rank 34/47 (+13)
19:42:03 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:42:04 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -6.19, score 17.96, rank 19/47 (+28)
19:42:10 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*10>(+)*10>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:42:10 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -9.40, score 12.98, rank 44/47 (+3)
19:42:17 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*20>(+)*20>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:42:17 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -7.67, score 16.59, rank 20/47 (+27)
19:42:31 <kerbal> Getting close
19:42:40 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*17>(+)*17>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:42:40 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -7.00, score 17.59, rank 19/47 (+28)
19:42:45 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*17>(+)*18>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:42:45 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -8.40, score 16.66, rank 20/47 (+27)
19:42:52 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*18>(+)*17>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:42:53 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -8.19, score 16.96, rank 20/47 (+27)
19:43:10 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*16>(+)*16>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:43:10 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -6.55, score 17.82, rank 19/47 (+28)
19:43:39 <kerbal> So for this bot, the size of the trap blocks should be 15-17. Interesting
19:43:58 <jjthrash> kerbal: Anybody going to use a genetic algorithm to grow a bot? ;)
19:44:42 <kerbal> Not today
19:46:21 <int-e>  !ztest Checkers >((-)*16>(+)*16>)*4([-]>)*12[-]
19:46:27 <int-e> !ztest Checkers >((-)*16>(+)*16>)*4([-]>)*12[-]
19:46:27 <zemhill> int-e.Checkers: points -17.60, score 11.20, rank 47/47
19:46:30 -!- sleffy has joined.
19:46:38 <int-e> fun.
19:52:30 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*16>(+)*16>)*5((+)*10[-]>)*-1
19:52:31 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -8.05, score 17.12, rank 20/47 (+27)
19:52:41 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*5((+)*10[-]>)*-1
19:52:42 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -8.81, score 16.46, rank 21/47 (+26)
19:52:50 -!- tromp has joined.
19:52:53 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*17>(+)*17>)*5((+)*10[-]>)*-1
19:52:53 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -8.29, score 17.01, rank 20/47 (+27)
19:53:06 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*5((+)*7[-]>)*-1
19:53:06 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -6.55, score 17.90, rank 19/47 (+28)
19:53:53 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*5((+)*15[-]>)*-1
19:53:53 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -8.33, score 16.62, rank 21/47 (+26)
19:53:54 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:54:14 <kerbal> !ztest Checkers >((-)*15>(+)*15>)*5([-]>)*-1
19:54:15 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -6.19, score 17.96, rank 19/47 (+28)
19:56:11 <int-e> !ztest Checkers >((-)*17>(+)*16>)*4([-][+.]>)*20[-][+.]
19:56:12 <zemhill> int-e.Checkers: points -3.57, score 20.14, rank 15/47
19:56:13 <shachaf> Can you stop with the bot spam?
19:56:17 <shachaf> Isn't there another channel for that?
19:56:41 <int-e> zemhill does work in privmsg btw. this is just where I decided to stop
19:57:52 <kerbal> Sorry... I'll conduct further tests with pm's
19:58:34 <int-e> kerbal: note that I found that 17/16 performs better than 16/16 and 17/17, a bit curiously.
19:59:34 <kerbal> int-e: Interesting! What do the other mods you added do? I sort of think they probably help too
20:01:03 <int-e> I don't know exactly, but there are some defense mechanisms for a plain [-] and [+.] has a different rhythm so gets another chance to kill those defenders
20:01:39 <int-e> and the final change with miniscule effect is to never step off the arena if it has size 30
20:04:07 <kerbal> int-e: Makes sense
20:07:19 -!- jaboja has joined.
20:08:07 -!- tromp has joined.
20:13:49 <int-e> !ztest Checkers >((-)*17>(+)*16>(+)*17>(-)*17>)*2([-][+.]+>)*20[-][+.]
20:13:49 <zemhill> int-e.Checkers: points 0.00, score 23.22, rank 10/47
20:14:06 <int-e> (0.00! I don't know how that happened.)
20:14:17 <wob_jonas> nice
20:16:46 <kerbal> Cool!
20:17:06 <kerbal> How are the points calculated?
20:17:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:17:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:19:54 <shachaf> int-e: Someone pointed out that L is still not idempotent.
20:21:31 <int-e> kerbal: I think it works like this: there are 42 jousts between a pair of programs (every combination of length 10..30 and sides the players are on), resulting in a score between -42 and 42; the tested program is pitted against all programs on the hill and the final score is the average of the resulting scores.
20:21:33 <shachaf> For example on the characteristic function of {1/n | n <- N+}
20:22:08 <kerbal> Ah. So, are higher or lower scores better?
20:22:22 <int-e> higher is better.
20:22:46 <kerbal> Ok
20:22:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:22:52 -!- Rugxulo has joined.
20:23:11 <kerbal> But lower ranks are better, right?
20:23:43 <int-e> I don't know about the score computation though. yes, lower numbers for the rank are better.
20:24:04 <int-e> (I say numbers because I'd call them higher ranks...)
20:24:22 -!- nullcone has joined.
20:25:03 <kerbal> So, how did you get 0 points and yet such a low rank (10/47)? Does that imply that lower points are better, or that they are calculated in some indecipherable way?
20:25:23 <kerbal> Wait, never mind
20:25:35 <kerbal> 0 points is higher than in many previous attempts
20:26:26 <wob_jonas> kerbal: higher points is better
20:26:33 <wob_jonas> !ztest suicide <
20:26:33 <zemhill> wob_jonas.suicide: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47
20:26:42 <wob_jonas> ^ low score, very bad
20:26:48 <wob_jonas> very good would be 46 points
20:27:25 <kerbal> What, then, is the difference between scores and points? 
20:27:30 <int-e> Rugxulo: what are you up to?
20:27:44 <wob_jonas> wait
20:27:45 <wob_jonas> ...
20:27:51 <wob_jonas> I dunno
20:27:58 <Rugxulo> hmmm?
20:28:08 <Rugxulo> just bored
20:28:15 <wob_jonas> `? zemhill
20:28:16 <HackEgo> zemhill? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:28:51 <kerbal> So, you can do this:
20:28:54 -!- tromp has joined.
20:29:02 <kerbal> !help
20:29:02 <zemhill> kerbal: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
20:29:17 <kerbal> but as you can see that doesn't provide relevant info
20:29:28 <kerbal> maybe the website has our answer
20:30:13 <kerbal> no, it doesn't
20:30:17 <int-e> http://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ has details on "Markov scoring"
20:30:43 <kerbal> I stand corrected :)
20:31:06 <sleffy> `? hand
20:31:07 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
20:32:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:37:26 <Rugxulo> so Graue hosts the archive now (on Github)? I forget who used to host it ...
20:38:41 <shachaf> `grwp github.com
20:38:44 <HackEgo> cookbook:Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc \ esoteric files archive:The Esoteric Files Archive is now available at https://github.com/graue/esofiles \ font:#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://li
20:38:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:39:07 <shachaf> `2 grwp github.com
20:39:08 <HackEgo> 2/2://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz \ lifthrasiir's font:lifthrasiir's font is https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png \ recipe:Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
20:39:54 <Rugxulo> the Befunge section seems a bit anemic
20:39:55 <shachaf> oerjan: You should adjust `2/distort so it breaks at exactly the right place. TWH
20:47:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:47:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:50:02 -!- tromp has joined.
20:56:42 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:58:16 <zemhill> kerbal.Tiny: points -14.62, score 10.39, rank 47/47
20:59:06 <zemhill> kerbal.Tiny: points -14.62, score 10.39, rank 47/47 (--)
20:59:29 <kerbal> Hey, look at that. zemhill echoes to #esoteric even when I send it a pm
21:01:07 <kerbal> I might as well make requests here
21:02:25 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:03:15 -!- tromp has joined.
21:04:53 <int-e> kerbal: it doesn't for tests. submissions *should* be rarer.
21:05:17 <kerbal> int-e: Ah... I see...
21:05:25 <kerbal> my bad
21:05:53 <kerbal> sorry
21:06:28 <zemhill> kerbal.Tiny: points -13.93, score 13.63, rank 39/47 (+8)
21:06:44 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:07:11 <kerbal> sorry... I used the up arrow to load the last command and neglected to change the !zjoust to !ztest.
21:18:01 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -4.48, score 18.80, rank 18/47
21:18:16 <kerbal> That submission was intentional.
21:18:40 <shachaf> i,i intentional equality
21:21:09 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -4.48, score 18.80, rank 18/47 (--)
21:24:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Rugxulo, why're you versioning me
21:24:12 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover 2.0
21:26:25 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -4.55, score 18.82, rank 18/47 (--)
21:27:32 <shachaf> `5 w
21:27:37 <HackEgo> 1/2:apl//APL stands for Algorithmic Programming Language. \ vim//vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are. \ football//A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies. \ stone space//Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax. \ p
21:27:47 <shachaf> `n
21:27:48 <HackEgo> 2/2:atent//Patent is an adjective which means that something is painfully obvious. Often used to rightfully mock people that do not see it.
21:28:18 <wob_jonas> heh
21:28:52 <shachaf> `forget football
21:28:54 <HackEgo> Forget what?
21:29:30 <shachaf> `dowg stone space
21:29:39 <HackEgo> 8459:2016-06-12 <shachäf> le/rn stone space/Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax.
21:29:40 <Rugxulo> Phantom_Hoover: bored
21:29:40 <shachaf> mysterious
21:29:45 <shachaf> What was I thikning of?
21:30:05 <shachaf> Oh, I see.
21:30:29 <shachaf> That reads like a half-wisdom.
21:30:37 <shachaf> P. Taneb Barnum
21:30:42 <shachaf> `? tanebventions: math
21:30:43 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
21:31:17 <shachaf> `slwd tanebventions: math//s#alg#Stone spaces, &#
21:31:18 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, Stone spaces, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
21:32:15 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -4.52, score 18.85, rank 18/47 (--)
21:34:04 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
21:34:19 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -3.07, score 19.72, rank 16/47 (+2)
21:37:29 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -2.86, score 19.94, rank 16/47 (--)
21:37:42 <wob_jonas> is there a small interpreter esolang where every token is exactly two bytes long yet is textual and intended to be hand-writable?
21:37:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52096&oldid=52092 * Raddish0 * (-66) /* Built-in functions */  added some stuff, fixed some stuff...
21:37:56 <wob_jonas> like a forth-alike?
21:38:11 <Rugxulo> why two bytes?
21:38:44 <wob_jonas> well one bytes is a bit too short and there are already lots of languages like that
21:38:56 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -2.88, score 19.92, rank 16/47 (--)
21:39:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Micro]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52097&oldid=52096 * Raddish0 * (+59) 
21:39:04 <zemhill> kerbal.Checkers: points -2.86, score 19.94, rank 16/47 (--)
21:39:20 <wob_jonas> and two bytes should be enough for not too big programs, and most people don't write big programs for small interpreter languages unless they have efficient hw impl
21:40:02 <Rugxulo> you really think "ad" is more readable than '+'?
21:40:08 <Rugxulo> or "sb" for '-'?
21:41:07 <Rugxulo> "small" (for a language) could mean anything
21:41:38 <wob_jonas> Rug: if you have 20..30 primitives and two hundred (functions and local variables together) you might not want to figure out how to assign them single char names so they don't collide
21:41:59 <wob_jonas> two hundred identifiers in your program that is
21:42:35 <wob_jonas> because your programming language is one that likes variables (like C), not one with lots of implicit unnamed stuff (like stack-based languages) or reusable registers
21:43:25 <fizzie> wob_jonas: It's not an answer to your question, but a reasonably large chunk of Burlesque has some resemblance.
21:44:01 <wob_jonas> ah yes
21:44:09 <Rugxulo> you mean like Oberon/0 (the successor to PL/0) ? Or Pascal-S (aka, subset) ?
21:44:28 <Rugxulo> I agree that one-byte opcodes aren't ideal, but two-byte isn't much better
21:46:00 <wob_jonas> I didn't say it was ideal
21:49:10 -!- jaboja has joined.
21:49:49 <wob_jonas> argh rosettacode.org is down
21:51:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
21:55:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52098&oldid=52097 * Raddish0 * (+300) 
22:05:11 <Rugxulo> try looking up Rosetta on the WayBack Archive
22:07:42 <Rugxulo> it seems to mostly be available there
22:18:20 <\oren\> the toki pona language attempts to represent a large percentage of human expression with 120 'tokens'
22:18:45 <wob_jonas> \oren\: and it fails hilariously. those words are not enough to say anything decent
22:18:52 <wob_jonas> it's a ridiculously bad attempt fora  language
22:19:05 <wob_jonas> I hate toki pona
22:19:17 <\oren\> well what happens is you have long noun phrases for simple concepts
22:19:32 <\oren\> which are ambigous
22:20:26 <\oren\> at least that's what I recall from when I looked at it last
22:20:40 <wob_jonas> what happens is a language that can talk only about a few topics that the creators wanted to talk about. typical newspeak language, deliberately limiting the range of your expressions to just the thoughts they consider good for the cause
22:21:28 <wob_jonas> worse than python
22:22:28 <myname> ymmd
22:22:40 <\oren\> I bet they could have done way better if they had about 1000 words
22:23:10 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yes, and some other constructed languages try that
22:23:32 <\oren\> how many basic words are there in lojban again?
22:24:27 <wob_jonas> about 1200 root words and 500 grammar words
22:25:35 <wob_jonas> there are a few concepts missing convenient words, but not too many, and they can be added. between 800 and 4000 root words seems about the right number for a good language
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22:37:50 <Rugxulo> Joyo Kanji? supposedly 2136 words
22:39:03 <wob_jonas> those aren't words, they're characters. a lot of words are written with multiple kanji, or with multiple kana, and the kanji can stand for lots of words
22:39:09 <wob_jonas> it's a crazy ambiguous system
22:39:27 <Rugxulo> I've got a small text here about Esperanto, not sure exactly what number they're claiming, but you can get by with less than 1000
22:39:29 <wob_jonas> (though at least they don't have stupid irregular conjugations or declinations like most European languages)
22:40:03 <wob_jonas> @Rugxulo: there are a lot of such short lists. most are missing some topics that the compiler doesn't like or doesn't think of, but the order of magnitude is right
22:40:03 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
22:40:17 <Rugxulo> (665?)
22:41:38 <Rugxulo> search Google for "Jim Cushing" Esperanto
22:42:58 <wob_jonas> my Longman dictionary has a pretty good list which it tries to stick to for most word definitions, of about 1800 or 1900 words. does let them write all of the definitions in a natural way, which suggests it's a decent list for most topics
22:43:21 <wob_jonas> (it's a monolingual English dictionary)
22:45:21 <\oren\> wob_jonas: well, japanese has 3 irregular verbs... aru/arimasu/nai kuru/kimasu/konai and suru/simasu/sinai
22:45:53 <wob_jonas> \oren\: right. way better than most European languages
22:47:50 <wob_jonas> Hungarian declination and conjugation is terrible. it's so bad that people use some details that are utterly unimportant as shiboleth to recognize non-native speakers, there are some details that even native speakers can't agree on, and a few verbs are impossible to conjugate in half of the forms so you need to rephrase sentences if you tried to us
22:47:50 <wob_jonas> e them.
22:48:14 <\oren\> like english "can"
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22:48:48 <wob_jonas> or must
22:49:02 <\oren\> can, could, am able to (not "am canning"*)
22:49:26 <wob_jonas> I can't tell if you're kidding or not
22:49:56 <\oren\> there's no gerund for can
22:50:26 <wob_jonas> that's why it's a tinning kit, not a canning kit
22:51:35 <\oren\> must, must (musted*), am forced to (musting*)
22:52:44 <\oren\> must and can are almost like particles
22:53:29 <wob_jonas> `? can
22:53:30 <HackEgo> Can cans can cans?
22:53:30 <wob_jonas> `? must
22:53:32 <HackEgo> must? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:54:31 <zzo38> How to limit the depth of a Huffman tree?
22:55:16 <shachaf> It's not a Huffman tree anymore at that point, is it?
22:56:56 <wob_jonas> zzo38: fiddle with the model probabilities to increase the small ones?
22:58:33 <\oren\> a weird thing is that some of these defective verbs move around to hide it: "I have could write it"* -> "I could have written it"
22:58:38 <zzo38> wob_jonas: But how much to decide to do such thing?
23:00:05 <wob_jonas> \oren\: or more usually you just replace them with synonyms that have fuller paradigm: can => is able to; must => need;
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23:01:44 <\oren\> wob_jonas: oh, yeah and if you do that, the meaning is different
23:02:00 <wob_jonas> yes, the meaning becomes more regular or something
23:02:08 <wob_jonas> those other words behave more regular
23:02:18 <\oren\> "I have been able to write it" != "I could have written it"
23:02:25 -!- tromp has joined.
23:02:37 <\oren\> it fact they are almost opposite
23:03:05 <\oren\> because one implies you did write it, the other implies you didn't
23:03:19 <\oren\> despite their similiar formation
23:03:43 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:04:13 -!- int-e has joined.
23:08:26 <\oren\> ooh ELECTION TIME!
23:08:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Micro]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52099&oldid=52098 * Raddish0 * (+104) add I command
23:08:45 <wob_jonas> what election?
23:09:06 <\oren\> in britain
23:09:20 <\oren\> May's election gamble BACKFIRES: Stunning exit poll suggests the PM has LOST seats and Britain is on course for a hung Parliament
23:09:52 <\oren\> GBP in nosedive
23:09:58 <wob_jonas> you're hanging your politicians? that's a nice system
23:10:44 <zzo38> I tried to improve the JPEG encoder to make its own Huffman tree, and it does result in smaller file size, and stb_image successfully decodes the JPEG file in that case, although ImageMagick complains about a bogus Huffman table definition and refuses to display it. (Currently, if it finds the depth of the Huffman tree is too much, it just discards it and uses the default instead.)
23:10:47 <shachaf> that would be "hanged" hth
23:10:56 <zzo38> How to fix these things?
23:12:07 <wob_jonas> zzo38: dunno
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23:20:50 <\oren\> helloily! brexiteers on suicide watch as tories lose seats, Sad!
23:21:51 <boily> he\\oren\! you're alive!
23:22:02 <fizzie> Been a lot of things about the election, and I can't even vote. :/
23:22:37 <\oren\> at this point watching elections is like my version of sports
23:24:37 <fizzie> They're pretty slow at counting here.
23:34:12 <\oren\> Péter Szijjártó being interviewed on RT right now about european-russian relations
23:39:16 <\oren\> despite his unfortunate haircut, seems like he has a coherent mind
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23:42:43 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, are you in a safe seat though
23:43:12 <shachaf> fizzie: Can you run for office?
23:43:28 <shachaf> imo fizzie for president of finland
23:44:25 <Rugxulo> fizland
23:44:28 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I think so, though I've not really inquired.
23:44:40 <fizzie> shachaf: Haven't asked.
23:44:48 <zzo38> Wikipedia suggests a "package merge" algorithm for length-limited Huffman coding
23:45:20 <fizzie> Incidentally, I should now get an email if the "test" action at the web zemhill submission endpoint stops working. Maybe that'll mean more nines of being up.
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23:47:23 <wob_jonas> fizzie: more nines is good
23:50:31 <boily> fizziello, Phantom_Helloover, helloochaf, Rugxello, fiziello, hezzo38, wellob_jonas.
23:50:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:50:37 <boily> hellørjan!
23:51:29 <wob_jonas> helloily
23:55:06 <oerjan> ohaily
23:57:55 <\oren\> swindon north to tories
23:58:09 <\oren\> that's the first tory seat announced so far
23:59:35 <alercah> I declare scotland for SNP
23:59:53 <alercah> do they do one whole riding at a time, rather than counting them in separate batches?