←2017-06-18 2017-06-19 2017-06-20→ ↑2017 ↑all
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02:14:22 <shachaf> @metar OAK
02:14:32 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
02:14:32 <lambdabot> KOAK 190053Z 30013KT 10SM FEW030 FEW060 29/15 A2972 RMK AO2 SLP065 T02940150
02:14:44 <shachaf> \toodamnhigh{the temperature}
02:14:50 <shachaf> @metar KSJC
02:14:50 <lambdabot> KSJC 190053Z 30014KT 10SM FEW090 FEW120 34/15 A2970 RMK AO2 SLP055 TCU DSNT NE-E T03440150 $
02:14:52 <shachaf> `? weather
02:14:55 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
02:14:57 <lambdabot> CYUL 190100Z 21013G19KT 15SM FEW040CB BKN100 BKN170 BKN240 28/20 A2956 RMK CB1AC6AC1CI1 CB TR CI TR SLP010 DENSITY ALT 2100FT \ ENVA 190050Z 24007KT 9999 FEW027 BKN057 11/09 Q1014 RMK WIND 670FT
02:14:57 <lambdabot> 26010KT \ ESSB 190050Z AUTO 25006KT 9999 NCD 18/14 Q1012 \ KOAK 190053Z 30013KT 10SM FEW030 FEW060 29/15 A2972 RMK AO2 SLP065 T02940150 \ PAMR 190053Z AUTO VRB05KT 10SM BKN070 17/07 A2999 RMK AO2
02:14:57 <lambdabot> SLP155 T01670067 TSNO
02:18:34 <oerjan> \bitlow{here}
02:23:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Is that a political party?
02:24:14 <oerjan> is what
02:24:42 <shachaf> bitlow
02:24:49 * oerjan checks the bitcoin bubble
02:24:58 <shachaf> cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_Is_Too_Damn_High_Party
02:25:06 <oerjan> not quite as bubbly as last time.
02:26:00 <oerjan> there might well be a tiny party with a silly name, what do i know.
02:27:29 <oerjan> a previous election had some comedians running. although they didn't win like in iceland.
02:28:08 * oerjan checks wikipedia
02:28:42 <oerjan> hm this year is a new election.
02:32:42 <__kerbal__> Someone should create a Birthday Party.
02:32:45 <oerjan> the norwegian cannabis party and the pirate party are the silliest names i can see
02:33:01 <oerjan> and the extinct natural law party
02:34:19 <oerjan> (which proposed basing everything on transcendental mediation)
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02:57:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Copy * New user account
03:01:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52195&oldid=52190 * Copy * (+118)
03:01:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52196&oldid=51890 * Copy * (-34) Update link from old website
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03:12:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Madk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52197&oldid=18169 * MD XF * (+391)
03:13:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Madk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52198&oldid=52197 * MD XF * (-39)
03:13:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Madk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52199&oldid=52198 * MD XF * (-1)
03:18:43 <quintopia> :\
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03:21:10 <zzo38> @metar CYVR
03:21:10 <lambdabot> CYVR 190200Z 09005KT 15SM FEW006 OVC016 16/14 A3017 RMK CF1SC7 SLP218
03:21:40 <zzo38> (There is another airport near where I am but which does not have METAR)
03:21:52 <zzo38> (I don't know why they don't have METAR.)
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03:51:33 <moony> `bc
03:52:05 <HackEgo> No output.
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04:03:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52200&oldid=41792 * CatIsFluffy * (+196) :P
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04:24:45 <zzo38> Are you going to make Deadfish implementation with more kinds of assembly languages (other than just Famicom and MMIX)?
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04:49:56 <Sgeo_> I have been getting a 24 Hour Server Suspension Warning every 24 hours or so for the past 3 days.
04:49:59 <Sgeo_> From CloudAtCost.
04:58:46 <zzo38> What is that warning for?
04:58:58 <oerjan> have you paid you Maintenance Fee (TM)?
04:59:01 <oerjan> *your
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07:00:15 <Sgeo_> I have not
07:00:27 <Sgeo_> And no desire to, I haven't been using it at all iirc
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07:13:19 <oerjan> Sgeo_: well int-e closed his account with them after they announced that (badly).
07:13:24 <oerjan> anyway
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07:58:23 <zzo38> I made a list of some new kind of magic item that could be used in a GURPS game or other kind of game; these are the (mostly) rare kind so is not common to just find it in any shop, to make one, etc, but sometimes it can be.
07:58:55 <zzo38> It is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/gurps/newitem
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08:24:15 <shachaf> oerjan: did you read emil books
08:24:35 <shachaf> fizzie: olsner:
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08:39:59 <erkin> helo
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09:05:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: pong
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09:06:49 <wob_jonas> int-e: it still looks like your attempts don't fit into an irc line, but it's shorter than what I tried
09:06:55 <wob_jonas> I'll have to check if it works and how it works
09:10:36 <wob_jonas> <zzo38> Is there a such things as MMIX JIT to compile a MMIX code into a code for a different computer? => um, maybe qemu has one? it has jits from multiple pairs of archs I think
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09:32:45 <int-e> wob_jonas: the last one actually did make it to the bot in one piece. 451 characters is really pushing the limits though. see http://sprunge.us/cBXQ for the whole thing
09:33:24 <int-e> (and I have a short hostmask, which probably helps)
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09:34:00 <wob_jonas> int-e: ah, so I should try from my b_jonas account or something
09:42:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52201 * B jonas * (+228) Created page with "'''Integ''' is a programming language by __kerbal__. Some documentation and an implementation at https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ [[Category:Languages]] Category:Impleme..."
09:43:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52202&oldid=52163 * B jonas * (+12)
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09:51:28 <zzo38> For MMIX JIT, my idea involving only user programs anyways (not the operating system), and to take advantage of some of the features such as needing SYNCID for self-modifying code. Still is not quite the kind of code to be JIT, although is closer than some machine instruction sets.
09:54:38 <wob_jonas> sorry, it seems qemu doesn't yet have mmix emulation http://git.qemu.org/?p=qemu.git;a=tree;f=target;h=fc7882c64d1d9ded74202aeeff083fd3c5e52c46;hb=master
09:56:04 <wob_jonas> int-e: it looks like the new tricks you use is to decode digits through separate memory cells, and use @() to do this efficiently
09:56:26 <wob_jonas> (efficiently in source code space)
09:58:28 <wob_jonas> and it indeed looks shorter than the latest I have, which is http://dpaste.com/1C3K0R1.txt
10:01:24 <wob_jonas> also one more trick is to store the data to cell 0, which I really should have done
10:13:16 <int-e> I was really quite happy to have a good use for @ and _
10:20:17 <zzo38> Another use of LDHT instruction in MMIX is to be able to do multiple kind of endianness conversion (with MOR) by using only one constant, so you can read 16-bit small-endian, 32-bit small-endian, and 32-bit PDP-endian. When converting endianness of signed numbers, you can also use one constant (already mentioned in the MMIX documentation, I think), and follow by SR to tell how much.
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12:01:16 <Taneb> :D I have a job offer!
12:02:42 <boily> TANELLE!
12:02:48 <boily> @massages-loud
12:02:48 <lambdabot> quintopia said 18h 51m 39s ago: helloily. i'm back. how's this coming saturday for ya?
12:04:21 <boily> @tell quintopia qunthellopia! can you make it Sunday? Saturday is the Fête Nationale and I'll be out.
12:04:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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12:06:39 <boily> `w
12:06:41 <HackEgo> companion cube//There's cake inside it. Tear it apart, rip open your companion, and extract the delicious, delicious cake...
12:07:29 <Taneb> So I guess I'm moving to Cambridge
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12:09:14 <boily> what's your job offer?
12:09:42 <Taneb> 9 month contract working on https://www.myrtlesoftware.com/2017/04/20/deep-learning/
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12:11:40 <boily> nice.
12:11:56 <boily> in fact, quite nice.
12:15:01 <Taneb> Yeah, I'm really excited by it!
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12:58:19 <olsner> shachaf: emil i lönneberga?
12:58:38 <olsner> never read the books, just saw the tv series (or perhaps the movie)
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14:34:00 <wob_jonas> Taneb: nice! do you also have your university degree complete?
14:37:27 <wob_jonas> automating car driving? meh, I'll believe it only if people develop those sorts of things specifically targeting driving in bad weather and big cities in the uglier parts of Europe. it's easy to get better systems for driving on american highways.
14:39:24 <wob_jonas> I've worked enough with computer vision to know that every sort of automation is at least ten times more difficult if you want it to work in all times of the day and night in all lighting conditions and weather, not just nice bright light with a thin cloud in front of the sun to remove shadows.
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15:11:15 <LKoen> Taneb: congratulations
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15:22:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Electron * New user account
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15:36:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52203&oldid=52195 * Electron * (+160)
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15:40:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Call Queue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52204&oldid=43561 * Electron * (+206) /* tasq */ new section
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16:11:06 <quintopia> :}
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16:42:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52205 * Enoua5 * (+6979) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Foxrabbit's Finite-state Map/Foxrabbit's Finite-state Binary |paradigms=[[:Category:Declarative paradigm|Declarative]] |author=[[User:Enoua5]] |majori..."
16:44:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52206&oldid=52205 * Enoua5 * (+2) /* Turing Completeness */
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16:47:55 <enoua5> BOOM! Made an entire language within a single day! Opinions? https://esolangs.org/wiki/FFM/FFB
16:51:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52207&oldid=52206 * Enoua5 * (+155)
16:55:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52208&oldid=52202 * Enoua5 * (+14) /* F */
16:56:37 <izabera> https://twitter.com/anne_theriault/status/876235898500861954
16:59:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Enoua5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52209&oldid=52159 * Enoua5 * (+62) /* Languages created */
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17:24:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52210&oldid=45780 * Get52 * (-36) User input was made deprecated.
17:26:31 <int-e> @metar lowi
17:26:31 <lambdabot> LOWI 191620Z 05011KT 020V080 9999 FEW080 30/15 Q1018 NOSIG
17:26:44 <int-e> hmm, maybe I won't walk home today
17:27:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52211&oldid=52210 * Get52 * (+48)
17:27:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Small]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52212&oldid=52211 * Get52 * (+2)
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17:29:21 <\oren\> These "jeans" do not feel like denim at all
17:29:43 <\oren\> They're way too soft
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17:37:26 <nchambers> you should sue
17:39:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52213&oldid=52207 * Enoua5 * (+7) fixed small bug in revcat
17:43:20 <shachaf> olsner: Ah. I think I read at least one of the books but it was a long time ago.
17:43:27 <shachaf> What about Emil and the Detectives?
17:44:09 <olsner> never heard of it, seems to be german
17:44:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52214&oldid=52200 * Zseri * (+121)
17:48:39 <shachaf> Yes, German.
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18:09:35 <zzo38> Is there some kind of fast way to make Morton numbers using MMIX instructions?
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18:10:58 <shachaf> Do you mean interleaving the bits of integers?
18:11:08 <zzo38> Yes
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18:17:00 <int-e> I would expect the usual 0x55..., 0x33..., 0x0F... bisection
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18:17:27 <int-e> (though not, actually, in that order)
18:21:00 <shachaf> `smlist 454
18:21:01 <HackEgo> smlist 454: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
18:21:52 <Cale> eyyyyy
18:22:37 <int-e> `? smlist
18:22:38 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
18:24:29 <int-e> and of course the masks aren't quite the same: x = x & 0xFFFFUL | ((x & 0xFFFF0000UL) << 16); x = x & 0xFF000000FFUL | ((x & 0xFF000000FF00UL) << 8); x = x & 0xF000F000F000FUL | ((x & 0xF000F000F000F0UL) << 4); x = x & 0x303030303030303UL | ((x & 0xC0C0C0C0C0C0C0C0UL) << 2); x = x & 0x1111111111111111UL | ((x & 0x2222222222222222UL) << 1);
18:25:20 <int-e> (untested, and 0xC0C0C0C0C0C0C0C0UL should be 0xC0C0C0C0C0C0C0CUL, so that's at least one bug)
18:25:44 <shachaf> so much duality
18:27:17 <int-e> well Germany has introduced the dual system. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duales_System_Deutschland
18:28:02 <shachaf> Did you read any Emil book?
18:28:05 <olsner> TODO: implement https://twitter.com/MarieLaureGB/status/874343740860772353 in self-modifying Piet
18:28:25 <int-e> the detective? children's books? I suppose I have, at some point.
18:28:35 <int-e> s/'s/s'/
18:28:43 <shachaf> Sure, that one.
18:29:07 <int-e> actually, no... children is the plural already... stupid inconsistent grammar.
18:29:20 <int-e> shachaf: but I don't see any connection.
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18:39:51 <int-e> and (looking at volume 4a), you can apparently play some tricks with M(X)OR.
18:42:04 <zzo38> Yes I also thought about using MOR and possibly MXOR
18:42:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52215&oldid=52213 * Enoua5 * (+34)
18:42:53 <zzo38> Which might reduce how many of these masking you should need.
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18:43:58 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think you can interleave bits quickly by using MOR a few times, on different sides
18:44:50 <wob_jonas> ah good, you already said
18:45:55 <zzo38> I know that you can reverse bits in a 64-bit number by using the constant #0102040810204080 once in the Y operand and once in the Z operand of a MOR instruction
18:46:02 <wob_jonas> anyway, you can move the bits around within any one byte using an MOR, in the same arrangement separately on 8 bytes
18:46:33 <wob_jonas> so you can use that to move either the lower or upper four bits of a byte to either the even or odd bits, or backwards
18:47:05 <wob_jonas> then you can use MOR the other way to rearrange bytes, OR to combine words, and even shifts can help
18:47:43 <wob_jonas> depending on what size of inputs and outputs you want, I think you can interleave bits quickly using that
18:48:22 <wob_jonas> zzo38: how big are your input numbers, and do you want this on a single pair of numbers or multiple together?
18:48:48 <zzo38> I should assume two 32-bit numbers.
18:49:40 <wob_jonas> if you only have one pair, then I think this is one of the many situations where x86's various random instructions on big vectors help you more than MMIX's MOR and stuff
18:50:14 <wob_jonas> well, I'm not sure. maybe.
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18:52:28 <int-e> 3 MORs, two ANDs, one OR, will give you the "spread" (interleaving with 0 bits).
18:53:25 <zzo38> OK
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18:59:14 <wob_jonas> let me try to figure this out exactly
19:03:09 <int-e> here is a sketch using 4x4 matrices: http://sprunge.us/CMIF
19:03:41 <int-e> (I'm not claiming that it's optimal, but it does show that 3 MORs, 2 ANDs and one OR suffice)
19:04:57 <int-e> and I may actually be able to do the whole interleaving in the same number of operations? HMM.
19:05:23 <Phantom_Hoover> did i mention that i got a job as a k programmer btw
19:05:31 <Phantom_Hoover> #esoteric is basically my real life now
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19:08:29 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
19:08:41 <shachaf> are you an evil financier now
19:11:26 <Phantom_Hoover> well not yet, i'm still in training
19:11:31 <Phantom_Hoover> but basically
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19:12:58 <shachaf> not yet evil or not yet financier
19:13:02 <shachaf> what sorts of things are you training to do
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19:15:50 <Phantom_Hoover> other than 'writing code for kdb' i don't exactly know
19:16:54 <shachaf> Is it in London?
19:17:08 <Phantom_Hoover> glasgow
19:17:24 <shachaf> TG
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19:34:45 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think something like this should work, but it's untested http://dpaste.com/0ZP3BS8
19:35:07 <int-e> zzo38: http://sprunge.us/FXMP ... it appears that 4 MORs, 2 ANDs, 2 ORs are enough to do the interleave operation (plus a shift and another or to get both parts into the same register)
19:35:24 <wob_jonas> this uses a combination of 8 MOR plus 3 OR instructions, plus a few instructions that create constants and so are needed only once
19:37:13 <wob_jonas> i'm not saying this is optimal, it may be possible to do one or two shorter
19:39:22 <wob_jonas> it's much easier on future x86 cpus, which will have bit-collect (intercal select) and bit-uncollect instructions, so you'll be able to do this in just two bit-uncollect then an OR instruction
19:39:40 <int-e> (or three or four)
19:42:23 <int-e> there's an open question whether MXOR could make this even more efficient, but I don't really want to think about that. linear algebra is hard.
19:48:54 <int-e> (why did I say 2 ORs when I meant 1 OR)
19:51:34 <wob_jonas> (it's not really intercal select, mind you, just half of it)
19:54:02 <wob_jonas> I have an idea for an esoteric programming language. I'll have to figure out what exactly the rules I'm thinking of imply, and if there's a right set of features to keep to get something that is not completely unusable but also not trivially easy.
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20:58:23 <fizzie> "Future", "will have"? Aren't those what PDEP and PEXT already are?
20:58:54 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, it's PDEP and PEXT, but most of the cpus you use right now don't yet support those
21:02:47 <fizzie> Aren't they just part of BMI2, in Haswell and later?
21:03:31 <int-e> . o O ( Flags: ... bmi2 ... )
21:03:39 <wob_jonas> fizzie: no, I think they're part of BMI3
21:03:42 <wob_jonas> but I'm not sure
21:03:55 <int-e> it seems that you're wrong
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21:04:36 <shachaf> Netcraft confirms it: Intel is dying
21:04:56 <int-e> ARM SoCs are winning, I suppose
21:06:00 <fizzie> https://software.intel.com/sites/landingpage/IntrinsicsGuide/ says cpuid flags BMI2 for the pdep intrinsic.
21:06:36 <fizzie> And lists Haswell/Broadwell/Skylake perf numbers for it.
21:06:56 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I don't think they're dying. they're using dirty tricks successfully to remain the market leader. but AMD is putting up a really good fight: they've finally started making CPUs in all categories from middle-strength desktop to high-end server that are better than Intel's again, and they bought a graphics card manufacturer
21:07:10 <wob_jonas> fizzie: wtf, what does BMI3 do then?
21:08:09 <int-e> what is that bmi3 you're talking about
21:09:42 <wob_jonas> uh... I'm not at home, let me re-download the manuals to here
21:09:45 <int-e> (google finds ABM, BMI1, BMI2, TBM, but I have not seen any other bit manipulation stuff.
21:13:43 <wob_jonas> the doc says PDEP is in the BMI2 extension set, yes
21:13:56 <wob_jonas> let me look up what cpus have that
21:14:54 <fizzie> Flaky hotel WiFi here as well, so won't be around. I just remember being excited about having an opcode matching an intercal instruction so well. Doesn't look like people have been that interested about it in general.
21:16:00 <wob_jonas> fizzie: it is interesting, but sort of drowned out by all the other more important good and bad things about AVX512
21:18:35 <wob_jonas> fizzie: ok, you're right, it's probably not just in future cpus, but it's still not in cheaper cpus you buy today
21:20:36 <FireFly> PDEP/PEXT are interesting, makes me want to write a compiler of some kind for an APL-like
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21:23:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lealcy * New user account
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21:29:25 <mroman> 9827568326>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
21:29:26 <mroman> srsly
21:30:46 <int-e> doesn't look like much
21:32:36 <wob_jonas> but even without PDEP, you can do the spreading of an integer to every other bits with like five AVX2 instructions I think
21:33:49 <wob_jonas> hmm no, maybe it's more because AVX2 doesn't have a full shuffle
21:34:05 <wob_jonas> or does it? let me look this up
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21:40:05 <wob_jonas> ok, make that six instructions then
21:42:50 <wob_jonas> hmm no wait
21:43:11 <wob_jonas> anyway, you could probably do the full interleave in like ten instructions
21:43:54 <wob_jonas> or maybe a bit more
21:44:17 <wob_jonas> I dreamed up an esoteric language, and I'm not sure if it's literally turing-complete
21:45:19 <LKoen> turingally leteracy-complete
21:45:39 <mroman> you mean....
21:45:42 <mroman> the name is turing complete?
21:46:13 <wob_jonas> it is quite powerful computationally, so in practice you could do any computation with it, but I don't know whether it can use arbitrarily large amount of memory completely (as opposed to just access a memory that grows at least tetration quickly in the program size)
21:56:00 <mroman> now I have to write a password cracker that understands befunge
21:56:09 <mroman> to crack my own password of course
21:56:16 <wob_jonas> what
21:56:20 <wob_jonas> why befunge?
21:56:25 <mroman> the new captchas are befunge code
21:56:41 <mroman> (esowiki captchas)
21:56:55 <wob_jonas> oh. but aren't there only a few of them?
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21:57:18 <mroman> not if you have like 10 passwords candidates in your head you might have used for this account.
21:57:25 <mroman> then it's really annoying.
21:57:48 <mroman> and all of these password candidates either have a 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 as a last digit
21:57:52 <wob_jonas> no, I mean only like 10 different befunge captchas
21:57:57 <mroman> then you're easily at 100 passwords you gotta try
21:58:09 <mroman> hm.
21:58:10 <wob_jonas> that you have to solve once, and then you always get only those ten for each attempt
21:58:35 <mroman> this is like hashcash captchas
21:58:38 <mroman> well
21:58:42 <mroman> you colud have hashcash captchas
21:58:49 <mroman> that take 1min to solve on a modern computer :D
21:59:54 <wob_jonas> is that useful? aren't they the kind of hashes where you can get the page a million times, solve the million hashes in parallel on a GPU in two minutes, then send a million password attempts?
21:59:59 <mroman> because
21:59:59 <mroman> but having to interpret code is even better
22:00:03 <mroman> some programs might not terminate
22:00:06 <mroman> that oughta show them cracker
22:00:33 <mroman> if you can solve a million hashes on a GPU in two minutes
22:00:42 <mroman> then you should pick another kind of hash
22:00:56 <mroman> or increase the amounts of bits
22:00:57 <wob_jonas> maybe only a hundred thousand, not an actual million
22:01:16 <mroman> i.e. instead of requiring to find a hash matching the first 16 bits of this hash
22:01:23 <mroman> you require it to match the first 32bits or something
22:01:39 <wob_jonas> hmm
22:01:47 <wob_jonas> but then it really depends on what computer the user has
22:01:54 <mroman> obviously
22:02:08 <wob_jonas> some computers would take 30 minutes, others only 1 minute on the same challenge
22:02:16 <mroman> the whole point is to waste cpu cycles of an attacker
22:02:35 <mroman> and increase global warming :D
22:02:35 <wob_jonas> oh good, rain restarted
22:03:51 <wob_jonas> isn't it better to use human captchas and increase employment?
22:04:42 <mroman> "human captchas"?
22:05:03 <wob_jonas> you know, captchas only humans can solve
22:05:10 <wob_jonas> the usual kind
22:05:15 <mroman> yeh
22:05:20 <mroman> I've been thinking about a new kind of captchas
22:05:34 <mroman> it'll display you N sentences of a conversation out of order
22:05:38 <mroman> and you have to order them
22:05:58 <wob_jonas> nah, that usually doesn't have a unique solution
22:06:13 <mroman> it does.
22:06:26 <wob_jonas> not in conversations you can easily mass-generate
22:06:28 <mroman> they do the same kind of tests to test for autism and stuff
22:06:35 <mroman> so one problem is probably that you exclude autists
22:07:15 <mroman> actually they do it with pictures of people doing things and you have to order the pictures to form a coherent story
22:07:47 <wob_jonas> just use some known hard problem like driving cars at night in a city. you have to remote-drive the car using live camera feeds, and you manage to drive it to the destination (which is about a minute away from the source) without crashing, you succeeded the captcha. if you have a high latency net connection, you can't complete this sort of captcha.
22:08:01 <wob_jonas> mroman: those are even more difficult to mass-produce
22:08:02 <mroman> that was a waste of 3000 bucks
22:08:36 <wob_jonas> what was a waste?
22:08:56 <mroman> the test for autism I took 2 years ago
22:09:00 <mroman> maybe 3 years ago
22:09:02 <mroman> can't really remember
22:09:23 <mroman> well...
22:09:29 <mroman> it would produce a new job sector
22:09:32 <mroman> CAPTCHA painter
22:09:34 <wob_jonas> oh, like the policeman and the IQ test?
22:09:47 <mroman> gotta create new jobs for those coal miners
22:10:16 <mroman> what policeman test?
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22:10:56 <wob_jonas> policeman joke. "I was on an IQ test yesterday." "Did you get the result yet?" "<happy> Yes, it's negative."
22:11:23 <mroman> Ah I see
22:11:25 <mroman> well
22:11:37 <mroman> Asperger people aren't stupid
22:11:54 <mroman> It's not that hard to know when something is supposed to be funny
22:12:32 <mroman> these tests measure more your social skills
22:12:41 <mroman> and not even that
22:12:48 <mroman> they measure the _pure_ basics of your social skills
22:13:02 <mroman> like showing you faces with specific facial expressions
22:13:10 <mroman> and then assign emotions to the facial expression
22:13:49 <mroman> even if you have very poor social skills you can still tell when a person is smiling or crying
22:13:50 <mroman> I mean
22:13:56 <mroman> those are _very_ obvious facial expressions
22:14:14 <wob_jonas> oh, a blindness test
22:14:18 <wob_jonas> useful
22:14:24 <mroman> I had a lot of tests done
22:14:29 <mroman> for 3k :D
22:14:33 <mroman> well health insurance paid it
22:14:35 <mroman> most of it
22:14:42 <wob_jonas> did they at least do useful tests too?
22:14:51 <mroman> you mean like rorschach test?
22:14:54 <mroman> they did those too yes
22:15:12 <wob_jonas> any that you found useful
22:15:22 <mroman> useful for what?
22:15:56 <wob_jonas> ones that made you feel it was worth paying money for
22:15:57 <mroman> they test wether you can recognize faces of famous people, the test wether you can assign emotions to facial expressions
22:16:05 <mroman> they test wether you can order these picture stories
22:16:15 <mroman> they test your memory by having you remember 10 words
22:16:22 <wob_jonas> faces of famous people... tricky
22:16:38 <wob_jonas> I can recognize some of them, but not many
22:16:51 <mroman> they test if your concentration with these p flipped-p test where you have a piece of paper with hundreds of p's some of them are flipped/mirrored and
22:17:02 <mroman> you have to circle the flipped ones as fast as you can.
22:17:19 <wob_jonas> so are they all psychological tests?
22:17:42 <mroman> they have a board with 6 circles and they touch them in some order and you have to repeat that order
22:17:54 <mroman> and then a lot of the "weird" tests such as Rorschach
22:17:58 <mroman> and "draw a tree"
22:18:07 <mroman> and "build patterns with these colored squares"
22:18:15 <mroman> those are probably the unscientific tests
22:18:20 <mroman> the other ones are at least rooted in some science
22:18:26 <wob_jonas> draw the current time on an analog clock face?
22:18:36 <mroman> no, that I didn't have to do
22:18:44 <mroman> that sounds more like something you do with dementia patients
22:18:50 <wob_jonas> yes, it is
22:19:08 <wob_jonas> or stroke patients
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22:19:33 <wob_jonas> anyway, I have to leave now
22:19:35 <mroman> apparentely I'm unable to form logical conclusions
22:19:41 <mroman> which is kinda weird
22:19:46 <wob_jonas> bye
22:19:50 <mroman> bye
22:20:02 <wob_jonas> "unable to form logical conclusions"?
22:20:06 <wob_jonas> yes, that does sound weird
22:20:16 <mroman> that sounds like completely made up
22:20:19 <mroman> I teach computer science
22:20:29 <mroman> it would be pretty bad if I couldn't form logical conclusions.
22:20:48 <wob_jonas> yes, although there are a few very horrible teachers out ther
22:20:55 <mroman> :D
22:20:59 <mroman> true
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22:22:20 <mroman> If it rains streets are wet. If streets are wet, did it rain?
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22:22:41 <mroman> Those are questions you can use to establish if someone can think logically
22:22:44 <mroman> and I certainly can.
22:22:51 <mroman> so I have no idea where the fuck this comes from.
22:23:11 <LKoen> mroman: do you know the tv series "orphan black"?
22:23:17 <mroman> no
22:23:32 <LKoen> there are quite a few episodes in which some of the characters have to submit to daily psychological tests
22:24:09 <LKoen> and thoses tests consists mainly in those kind of questions
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22:24:17 <mroman> I think they can't tell the difference between what's possible and what's not possible.
22:24:42 <mroman> such as uhm.
22:25:02 <LKoen> they're given a syllogism, and have to answer yes or no depending on whether the conclusion is consistent with the two priors
22:25:18 <LKoen> sometimes the conclusion is false, because the priors are false, but that's still a yes if that's consistent
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22:25:40 <mroman> those questions are btw also good for turing tests :D
22:26:27 <LKoen> Taneb: can you train a neural network to answer those questions?
22:26:48 <mroman> One of my useless "talents" is to overthink a lot.
22:26:55 <mroman> up to extremes.
22:26:58 <mroman> but still realistic.
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22:27:20 <mroman> i.e. there's the common believe that if you voluntarily admit yourself into a mental hospital you can leave whenever you want.
22:27:29 <mroman> and people buy that
22:27:36 <mroman> but it's objectively wrong.
22:27:46 <mroman> there's no such clause/law that actually says this.
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22:29:47 <mroman> so the logical conclusion is that even if you volunarily admit yourself you're actually not guaranteed to be able to get out again.
22:30:20 <mroman> but apparentely psychologists don't accept this as a logical conclusion.
22:31:05 <Phantom_Hoover> what
22:34:09 <mroman> "what" to what?
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22:34:51 <mroman> There really is no such law that specifies this.
22:35:10 <Phantom_Hoover> you should read up on paraconsistent logics or something
22:35:18 <Phantom_Hoover> do something useful with your time
22:35:40 <mroman> hm
22:35:42 <mroman> tldr?
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22:38:17 <mroman> inconsistency tolerant logic
22:38:17 <mroman> wth
22:39:20 <mroman> "Dialetheism is the view that some statements can be both true and false simultaneously."
22:40:24 <mroman> > Ambiguous situations may cause humans to affirm both a proposition and its negation. For example, if John stands in the doorway to a room, it may seem reasonable both to affirm that John is in the room and to affirm that John is not in the room.
22:40:26 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:97: error: parse error on input ‘,’
22:40:44 <mroman> that's just a matter of definition though.
22:40:50 <LKoen> yes
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22:41:04 <mroman> the result isn't of a true contradiciton it's because a term is not well-defined enough for everybody to agree on it
22:41:13 <LKoen> John \cap Room \neq {}
22:41:30 <LKoen> and John \cap cRoom \neq {}
22:41:39 <mroman> if you'd define what exactly is "in the room" then you will have a clear true/false answer
22:41:40 <LKoen> not inconsistent at all :)
22:41:56 <LKoen> I think the ambiguity came from John being larger than the doorstep
22:42:06 <LKoen> just like the Alps are both in France and in Italy
22:45:49 <mroman> I refuse statements that are both true and false :D
22:47:05 <LKoen> it's jsut that the statement make it sound like John is a point
22:47:08 <LKoen> when he's clearly a fat set
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22:56:14 <boily> `w
22:56:16 <HackEgo> porthello//Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
22:56:20 <boily> @massages-loud
22:56:20 <lambdabot> quintopia said 6h 44m 33s ago: sure. what time?
22:56:46 <boily> @ask requinthellopia. about 8pm?
22:56:46 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:57:01 <LKoen> is caffè a machine learning ide?
23:00:34 <boily> HELLoen.
23:00:37 <boily> `cwlprits porthello
23:00:46 <HackEgo> oerjän
23:00:49 <boily> ...
23:00:51 <boily> ...
23:01:02 <LKoen> helloily
23:01:09 <shachaf> `dowg porthello
23:01:17 <HackEgo> 8751:2016-07-05 <oerjän> le/rn porthello/Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some th\xc3\xa9 or caff\xc3\xa8 and a fternooner.
23:01:19 <boily> I *think* I mentioned caffè in thère because it has an è in it, to counteract the thé's é.
23:02:00 <shachaf> the̅
23:02:03 <shachaf> counteract that
23:02:06 <shachaf> thē
23:02:08 <shachaf> or that
23:02:19 <shachaf> thė
23:02:22 <shachaf> you get the idea
23:03:33 <boily> hellȯȯchaf.
23:03:55 <shachaf> hellꙭily
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23:15:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52216&oldid=52203 * Lealcy * (+163)
23:15:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PNID]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52217 * Lealcy * (+6287) Initial edit!
23:17:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52218&oldid=52208 * Lealcy * (+11) Added ''PNID'' to the list of languages.
23:19:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PNID]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52219&oldid=52217 * Lealcy * (+11) /* Interpreter */
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23:22:52 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/N6jVr9cTed4?t=1h
23:23:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PNID]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52220&oldid=52219 * Lealcy * (-1) /* Language overview */
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23:44:13 <boily> `w
23:44:15 <HackEgo> goofix//Goofix is an antropomorphic canine arithmetic notation.
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