00:02:24 It is not cartesian closed. 00:02:39 How do I know? nLab kind of implies it. 00:03:54 Does it have a subobject classifier? Umm... oh boy, that's an interesting one. 00:04:26 If there's a subobject classifier, presumably it's the set 2. 00:05:15 Why? 00:05:29 Categories that have a subobject classifier that isn't 2 are TG 00:05:40 They're what? 00:05:57 too good 00:06:09 Well, let's see. 00:07:14 Om is a subobject classifier if every monomorphism A -> B is a pullback of B -> Om along the "true morphism" 1 -> Om. 00:07:40 ...Yeah close enough. 00:07:55 The arrow B -> Om has to be unique, in particular. 00:08:35 So, consider the empty monomorphism from {} to {1}. 00:08:55 This has to correspond to exactly one function {1} -> Om. 00:09:28 So Om has to contain exactly one element that isn't the "true" element. 00:09:31 So Om has to be 2. 00:09:40 Nyow... 00:09:46 Is 2 actually a subobject classifier at all? 00:10:25 Given an injective primitive recursive function A -> B, is there a primitive recursive function B -> 2 which picks out its image? 00:12:20 I'm thinking... no. 00:14:28 There can't be an algorithm for *finding* such a primitive recursive function, at least. I don't think. 00:15:10 Let A be the set of even integers greater than or equal to 4... 00:15:16 And let B just be the natural numbers. 00:15:51 Define f(x) = x, if x is the sum of two prime numbers; otherwise, the smallest odd number that is not the value of f(y) for y smaller than x. 00:16:17 Then the image of f contains 1 if and only if Goldbach's conjecture is false. 00:17:17 Now, the function B -> 2 picking out the image of f is, in fact, primitive recursive. We just don't know which primitive recursive function it is. 00:17:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SILENT CHICKEN). 00:19:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:09:53 -!- ^_^v has joined. 01:20:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:22:31 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:27:15 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:29:08 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 01:29:36 -!- ^_^v has joined. 01:38:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:51:00 All right, what was that algebraic geometry textbook that I'd been looking through. 01:51:05 Was it Harris? 01:51:41 The senator? I don't think she wrote an algebraic geometry book. 01:51:45 Or do you mean the magician? 01:52:23 I mean my high school classmate. 01:52:29 I'm wondering if the textbook was literally that person. 01:53:29 I'm pretty sure it was Perrin. 01:55:36 Yep, gotta be. 01:56:21 Exerciseeees 01:56:40 "Is the set {(t, sin t) | t \in R} algebraic?" 01:56:43 No. 01:58:02 Because it... has countably infinitely many intersections with (t, 0)? 01:58:23 Because it does not lie entirely on a line but does lie between two parallel lines? 01:59:32 -!- imode has joined. 02:24:50 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9). 02:25:39 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:34:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:36:52 -!- augur has joined. 02:39:12 -!- heroux has joined. 02:54:27 -!- imode has joined. 02:54:41 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:54:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:59:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:27 -!- augur has joined. 03:12:13 [wiki] [[Ly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52532&oldid=52528 * LyricLy * (+1177) 03:17:37 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] to [[A programming language is a formal language that specifies a set of instructions that can be used to produce various kinds of output.]]: Per spec 03:25:47 [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal language that specifies a set of instructions that can be used to produce various kinds of output.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52535&oldid=52533 * Oerjan * (-231) Lazily update 03:28:25 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52536&oldid=52531 * Oerjan * (+5) /* A */ 03:29:06 [wiki] [[Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52537&oldid=51008 * Oerjan * (+5) update 03:31:08 -!- heroux has joined. 03:31:12 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 03:34:35 What happened? those definitions have no visible in jokes. 03:35:45 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:35:56 it's an out joke, i guess. 03:36:16 aka wikipedia's first sentence changed, thus does the language. 03:38:06 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Aplifcldtcitampac]]": This redirect is now *completely* meaningless, rather than *almost completely*. 03:43:25 doesthiswork: i see from history that it's name has been "butt" rather recently (if briefly) 03:43:28 *its 03:44:07 anyway the current form has been _mostly_ there since 29 April. 03:44:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:44:49 that makes me feel better 03:46:50 how do you handle versioning? 03:47:12 in the "formerly known as" part, i guess... 03:48:10 (might have to reformat that at some point) 03:49:20 I mean programs don't have a way to indicate which version they depend on 03:49:45 shocking 03:50:04 fortunately, each version doesn't have a lot of programs. 03:50:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:50:32 actually, each program contains all the information needed to discern the version 03:52:37 the current sentence is pretty much factually wrong, alas. 03:53:39 way too limited, which is ironical because it was changed in response to a talk page comment that complained the _original definition_ was too limited. 04:00:16  rm wisdom/ye*sh <-- nooooooooooooooo 04:00:26 >_> <_< 04:12:27 -!- Mr2001 has joined. 04:19:43 [wiki] [[Polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52538&oldid=49718 * Wheatwizard * (+122) Added the PPCG polyglot 04:24:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:26:58 -!- PattuX has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:28:04 -!- augur has joined. 04:30:14 HAKMEM says that to swap two bits in an accumulator, you can write "TRCE A,BITS" three times, but I don't know what is TRCE. Do you know? 04:32:03 http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/opcodes.html 04:32:08 HAKMEM is all about the PDP, isn't it? 04:32:25 I think so 04:32:35 Thank you I will look at that document 04:36:41 It says "test bits right with complement and skip if equal" I am not sure what "test bits right" means, though. 04:39:40 That document does not explain much about the instructions. 04:41:54 -!- heroux has joined. 04:46:01 O, I looked at other files in the same directory and found some more information 04:46:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:51:24 I think I see how it works 04:51:32 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:55:20 Now I read about what that instruction actually means, and now I can see how it is working. 04:56:19 I can see why they were proud enough to put it in the hackmem 04:56:28 sorry "HAKMEM" 04:57:27 -!- heroux has joined. 05:06:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:09:34 I mean, if I had a dollar for every time I've needed to swap two bits in an accumulator in fewer than four instructions 05:10:39 ...I would've just paid for the extra electricity it took to do it the straightforward way, and kept the other 99.99999 cents 05:17:23 -!- heroux has joined. 05:28:14 Mr2001: OK, but what instruction set are you writing the programs for anyways? 05:36:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:07:36 olist 1085 06:07:37 olist 1085: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 06:12:44 -!- heroux has joined. 06:16:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:16:52 well. I'm hooked. 06:17:02 I just compressed a graph of four nodes down to 1.625 bits. 06:17:09 four nodes, three edges. 06:17:22 err, not bits, bytes. 06:17:26 himode 06:17:34 hiii. 06:17:37 Is there a good succinct representation of prefix trees? 06:17:51 plenty if you hunt., 06:18:04 I'm just doing graphs. 06:18:12 and n-ary trees. 06:19:54 Sounds trickier. 06:20:02 I don't know of one for either. 06:20:37 it's actually pretty neat. 06:21:02 I started working on encoding planar graphs then I figured out that what I was doing was book encoding. 06:21:05 or book embedding. 06:21:44 planar graphs are really easy. given a list of n nodes, say 5, list out n marks of *. 06:22:08 *****. then, for each edge like 1 <-> 3, place a { after the first node in the pair, and a } after the second node. 06:23:01 so the string becomes *{**}**. adjacency queries become questions about enclosure. 06:24:19 for example, to test whether node 1 is connected to node 3, all you have to do is navigate to node 1, skip ahead to the first {, and then skip to the matching }. if the index of the third node in the string is less than the index of the matching }, then they're connected. if not, they aren't. 06:28:57 there's some other stuff you need like backtracking from a closing to an opening, because each opening and closing paren after the *s represents an edge. 06:31:00 -!- erkin has joined. 06:33:45 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:39:20 there's a twist though: one sequence like this only encodes a planar graph. if you want to encode a nonplanar graph, you have to use book embedding to encode multiple planar graphs with the edges you want. 06:39:46 but it's as simple as concatenating the strings of bits together with a delimiter. 06:39:47 -!- augur has joined. 06:41:06 compressing graphs like this gives me some new insight on how to cram a fuckton of data onto small devices. 06:49:22 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:27:28 OK 07:27:38 What new insight is that? 07:29:55 in that if you support basic bitwise ops you can store massive static datastructures with efficient query ops on extremely small devices. 07:30:05 imode going compression crackpot in 3,2... 07:30:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:30:44 compared to pointer-based stuff. 07:31:31 oerjan: crackpot huh? :P 07:31:44 -!- augur has joined. 07:31:47 i'm pretty sure that's a thing. 07:32:21 "yeah I can store 10Tb on this flashdrive." 07:32:58 http://goodmath.scientopia.org/2010/08/03/revenge-of-the-return-of-the-compression-idiot/ 07:33:52 "good luck kid I'm behind seven archives." 07:35:17 oh I can compress any file down to 50K. just don't ask me for it back. 07:35:53 I have done compression stuff before, many kind of experiment, making better compression for Sokoban levels, for MegaZeux worlds, etc. These are specific cases rather than general-purpose compression though 07:36:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:36:30 thing is, it's not really compression. 07:37:12 the graph as specified above is still usable in place. with some rudimentary rewriting you can insert new edges, remove edges... 07:39:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:40:45 OK 07:41:32 it's definitely not the ideal representation but it gets damn close. 07:44:13 "This was with random data. At least that's what people call it. Bzip2 data. (It looks pretty random to me.)" 07:44:32 "I don't know what this stuff represents so it's random." 07:44:43 crackpots are funny people. 07:45:11 that's actually a fair definition of random 07:45:37 just not one you can use for compression or other mathematical purposes 07:45:38 hah. 07:46:28 you might bayes other things on it 07:47:07 -!- augur has joined. 07:47:33 this guy needs to stop hamming around. 07:51:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:56:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:01:39 newsham: whoa whoa whoa 08:01:43 newsham: 9 is a lot of years 08:02:16 it's the most you can have without running out of digits 08:02:32 hex years are a thing 08:02:33 Yep. Time to start over after that. 08:03:25 you can only use hex years if you've been hexed to have 8 fingers on each hand hth 08:04:07 if you were hexed, you'd have 6 fingers, right? 08:04:22 you would have to be octed to have 8 fingers 08:04:45 curses 08:04:57 hah. 08:13:24 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:14:21 -!- augur has joined. 08:16:02 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:18:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:19:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:23:01 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:26:58 English has upset me once again. Why is there a stress on the *second* syllable in "superfluous"? 08:28:31 -per-? 08:28:41 english hates you too 08:30:05 int-e: because if you stress the next syllabe it sounds like super-fluorescent 08:30:57 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:33:09 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 08:33:32 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest31828. 08:36:16 int-e, that upsets me too 08:36:36 int-e: looks like it's the stress inherited from latin... 08:36:55 where it's entirely logical. 08:37:44 (the -ous is from -us, not -osus) 08:42:57 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:49:50 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 08:57:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:25:27 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:35:32 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 09:36:53 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:38:53 -!- relrod has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:39:55 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:48:41 -!- relrod has joined. 09:48:42 -!- relrod has quit (Changing host). 09:48:42 -!- relrod has joined. 09:54:07 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:26:10 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 10:29:28 "Would you like tea or coffee?" "True." 10:32:46 "Okay, would you like tea xor coffee?" "True." "Hm. Would you like tea?" "Superposition. I haven't observed the details of my desire for a hot beverage yet." "..." 10:40:11 -!- heroux has joined. 10:52:02 rdococ, is it OK if I answer "False" to the first question? 10:52:38 is it necessary for the possibility that you drink coffee to entail an obligation for you to eventually drink tea? 11:33:37 -!- boily has joined. 11:34:44 -!- erkin has joined. 12:16:57 Taneb, it would make more sense than answering True. 12:17:02 at least to an ordinary person. 12:17:25 Jafet, yes but only if you're British, 12:17:27 .* 12:17:41 rdococ, it's amazing how surprised people get when I want neither tea nor coffee 12:21:45 heh 12:22:32 *gasp*! 12:26:26 -!- PattuX has joined. 12:26:59 relcome PattuX 12:27:03 â€‹PattuX: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 12:30:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: REENTRANT CHICKEN). 13:58:10 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 13:59:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:00:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:06:24 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:09:13 -!- fungot has joined. 14:35:02 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:35:02 -!- newsham has joined. 14:35:40 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:36:04 -!- ^_^v has joined. 14:39:26 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:39:34 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:39:47 -!- erkin has joined. 14:56:05 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:57:11 -!- HackEgo has joined. 15:06:39 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:24:34 -!- j-bot has joined. 15:35:02 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 15:47:23 -!- augur has joined. 16:19:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:29:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:34:02 -!- Arctor has joined. 16:35:16 -!- Arctor has quit (Client Quit). 16:46:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:04:27 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:05:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:07:50 -!- catern has joined. 17:07:51 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:08:09 https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2017/07/adobe-flash-update.html 17:08:32 -!- APic has joined. 17:11:38 -!- augur has joined. 17:15:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:36:43 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:41:08 alercah: hm, I wonder what happens to old parts of homestar runner? Didn't it use to have flash games? I haven't followed it in recent years. 17:42:15 oh wait, I'm thinking of homestuck 17:42:22 homestar runner was always all flash wasn't it? 17:42:45 -!- catern has joined. 17:43:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:49:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:08:03 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:28:48 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:59:24 -!- ^_^v has joined. 18:59:34 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 19:02:40 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:03:40 ...I'm sure I used to own more than zero pens 19:03:50 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:03:58 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 19:10:40 [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52539&oldid=52512 * Qwertyu63 * (+1) 19:50:37 <\oren\> Taneb: check under the carpet 19:53:21 did someone invent a bf equivalent language where each symbol is a digit from 0 to 7 and you need a space between symbols and no other symbol is valid? 19:56:04 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:56:09 -!- brandonson has joined. 19:58:18 -!- augur has joined. 19:59:25 -!- Guest31828 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 19:59:48 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 19:59:48 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:00:10 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:15:42 -!- brandonson has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:16:46 -!- brandonson has joined. 20:18:39 -!- brandonson has quit (Client Quit). 20:18:49 -!- brandonson has joined. 20:22:48 -!- brandonson has quit (Client Quit). 20:22:58 -!- brandonson has joined. 20:29:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:49:59 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 20:52:37 -!- xkapastel has joined. 21:01:30 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:15:46 -!- imode has joined. 21:27:10 Vorpal: I don't know about homestar runner, but in general some animations will be recorded as video and posted on YouTube; some will be converted to JavaScript (Google has a tool for that, for adverts); and there are Flash player implementations both native and web 21:27:53 deltab: also homestuck and similar 21:28:05 * deltab nods 21:28:17 it had interactive stuff though 21:28:21 small games 21:28:27 and the massive game repositories like Kongregate 21:28:42 yeah, newgrounds it the other big one right? 21:28:46 yeah 21:29:30 good night 21:31:54 http://blog.kongregate.com/html5-is-here/ 21:37:09 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 21:55:35 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 22:07:10 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 22:11:43 [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52540&oldid=51395 * Kerbal * (+289) /* Potentially Stupid Question */ new section 22:12:40 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 22:14:06 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 22:50:10 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:59:48 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:07:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:12:32 -!- heroux has joined. 23:16:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:17:06 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 23:28:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:33:22 -!- augur has joined. 23:35:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).