< 1501115054 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get it? < 1501115562 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*munch*... < 1501115572 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(“not yet, I'm eating...”) < 1501115780 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i need to do that soon. what's on the menu today? < 1501116007 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got spaghotti. < 1501116053 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501116112 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1501116122 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaghetti with ghoti sauce? < 1501116134 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i get? < 1501116161 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esoteric Operating System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52554&oldid=34260 5* 03Zseri 5* (+43) 10+File System < 1501116192 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever read the girl with the dragon tattoo < 1501116205 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501116422 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try that: spaghetti with https://www.ateriet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/kalles-21-e1439029022596.png < 1501116457 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have something edible and happiferous. hamburgers are quite good at that. < 1501116468 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :smoked roe? < 1501116469 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't read it. < 1501116495 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Swedish smoked roe paste. pretty good, goes well on a sandwich! < 1501116514 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, judging by the packaging, ellen degeneres enjoys it, so I probably would too! < 1501117547 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1501119176 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501119230 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501119235 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501119593 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501123022 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: GAPING CHICKEN < 1501123737 0 :Warrigal_!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501123944 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501124180 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501124193 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501124874 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501125363 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501125612 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501125754 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w degener < 1501125756 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1501126489 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. < 1501126491 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'degenerate': Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. < 1501126546 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp degener < 1501126554 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :degenerate:Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. < 1501126589 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most things are degenerate versions of the mustard version of themselves. < 1501127018 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn_append degenerate The subjects of the sui degeneris programme include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, and watches without mustard. < 1501127020 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'degenerate': Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. The subjects of the sui degeneris programme include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, and watches without mustard. < 1501127123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"programme"? < 1501127137 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is Jafet geographically, anyway? < 1501127188 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's an american program < 1501127255 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apostrophe on olist 1085 has still not been fixed. < 1501127269 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1501127270 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1501127285 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn_append degenerate The subjects of this sui degeneris program include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, and watches without mustard. < 1501127287 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'degenerate': Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. The subjects of this sui degeneris program include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, and watches without mustard. < 1501127302 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/scowrevs < 1501127302 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/scowrevs: No such file or directory < 1501127306 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1501127310 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat share/scowrevs < 1501127311 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493:1497 \ 2112:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5894:5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075 < 1501127721 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501131939 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501132201 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1501132647 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501132912 0 :sheshiresat!~sheshires@gateway/tor-sasl/sheshiresat JOIN :#esoteric < 1501133067 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501133463 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-208-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501135488 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501137121 0 :sheshiresat!~sheshires@gateway/tor-sasl/sheshiresat QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501137960 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501138202 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-208-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1501138869 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1501141016 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501142247 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501142633 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501143519 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1501143898 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ArnoldC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52555&oldid=52552 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-45) 10featured it is not < 1501144052 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "featured" just means it has features hth < 1501144625 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501144895 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501145753 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has {{{paradigms}}} < 1501146246 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52556&oldid=52532 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+396) 10 < 1501146523 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501146929 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52557&oldid=52556 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+96) 10 < 1501148839 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501148858 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501149330 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501152870 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501153049 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-189-251-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501153163 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501153185 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1501153332 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-189-251-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501153778 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1501153833 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501153850 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/20hTMnmw < 1501153859 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprisingly hard to calculate the angle between two vectors. < 1501153860 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow. < 1501153865 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- code above is broken < 1501153938 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people say you can use the dot product for that < 1501153942 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's negative or positive < 1501153943 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nope < 1501153946 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work either. < 1501153962 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the dot division < 1501154022 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot product just says whether the target point is to the left or to the right of the origin in respect to the y axis < 1501154043 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if it's to the left or to the right in respect to the reference v1 < 1501154069 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :v1 is the reference vector and v2 is the vector from origin to a target point < 1501154081 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the question is what the angle between v1 and v2 is < 1501154120 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but math.acos will give you 15deg regardless if target point is to the left of v1 or to the right < 1501154125 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know where enemies are :( < 1501154342 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... the dp gives you whether the target point is to the left or right of your origin point < 1501154347 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in the way I actually want :D < 1501155350 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501158074 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501158152 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501158454 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: WAITING CHICKEN < 1501159182 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijtkgkvlluoausci QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1501159254 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1501159442 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501162145 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501162203 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501162673 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: this may be naive but why don't you compute atan2 for the two vectors and take the difference of the two results? (there's some care needed because the computation is modulo 2pi, but overall that should be simpler than your current code) < 1501162722 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1501162739 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501162776 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: also the way you disambiguate between -a and a looks dubious because it only depends on the direction of one of the two vectors. < 1501162819 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally, I bet one can construct vectors such that cos_a > 1 (or < -1), causing the acos call to fail. < 1501162856 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to rounding errors) < 1501162948 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1501162951 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atan2 - atan2 works < 1501162956 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need a few ifs in there < 1501162994 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/lnX67PK7 <- i finally figured it out. < 1501163010 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you can construct cos_a > 1 < 1501163029 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1501163031 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is < 1501163045 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :print(cos_a); acos(cos_a); will sometimes crash with domain error < 1501163050 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but print(cos_a); will print 1.0 < 1501163060 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it prints 1.0 but the number is actually not 1.0 < 1501163112 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know how it becomes bigger than 1.0 < 1501163117 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably float precision limitations < 1501163131 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/eCywKVdJ <- i.e. this < 1501163136 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know print rounds. < 1501163183 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use atan2 now to compute an "absolute" rotation angle of a vector < 1501163185 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then subtract those < 1501163201 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then correct them < 1501163341 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: diff = math.pi-(abs(diff)-math.pi) <-- here abs(diff) = diff, so that is essentially diff -= 2*math.pi, similarly, the next abs(diff) = -diff, so that assignment is essentially diff += 2*math.pi. < 1501163495 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d in this case is the direction vector of the origin and v is the vector from origin to target) < 1501163653 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on to the next problem. < 1501163684 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say I optimize something < 1501163705 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are "pits" you can fall into at which no further optimization is better < 1501163792 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501163831 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/C5aebGSV < 1501163836 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the optimizer is RANDOM :D < 1501163858 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it takes a wrong turn (which you don't really know if it's a wrong turn, you just know "this turn produces a better output than the last version") < 1501163891 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can get stuck due to taking turns that will put it into a state where no modification _probably_ will get you anywhere < 1501163933 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing may be worth a look < 1501163950 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also restarts < 1501163984 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of stuff working with ensembles (the most prominent keyword being genetic algorithms, I guess) < 1501163985 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :is simulated annealing useful for anything other than simulated metals? < 1501163995 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: ... < 1501164024 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's not useful for simulated metals at all. < 1501164027 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501164044 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know what you're saying, but the terminology has departed from the obvious meaning.) < 1501164071 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is, I don't know whether you're joking. < 1501164075 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I haven't seen any proofs that it is useful for anything else < 1501164092 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"works well in practice" < 1501164171 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing#The_annealing_schedule — ok, I guess it's useful for simulated metals < 1501164201 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you can also prove that as you slow down cooling you increase the probability of finding a maximum close to the global one under fairly mild assumptions. Disclaimer, this idea is based in intuition, not in any theory. < 1501164267 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you are optimising a function at random, you can use statistics to analyse the distribution of possible answers < 1501164325 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ensemble/swarm/ < 1501164341 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just remembered what the name I saw was) < 1501164395 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501165154 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501165617 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501165685 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1501165693 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you have 100 samples < 1501165701 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :75 should output 1.0 and 25 should output 0.0 < 1501165726 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a random program const 1.0 will be fairly accurate with an error of 25 < 1501165727 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501165740 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pretty much a dead point if you happen to randomly generate that < 1501165744 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try to optimize it further :) < 1501165828 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is no small modification to it will produce a better program anymore < 1501165890 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usually called (getting stuck at) a local optimum < 1501165900 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it craptimum. < 1501166065 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? craptimum < 1501166073 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :craptimum? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501166076 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn craptimum is a non-optimal optimum < 1501166078 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'craptimum': craptimum is a non-optimal optimum < 1501166577 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501166618 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? opium < 1501166619 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :opium? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501166631 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn opium is an optimum. < 1501166633 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'opium': opium is an optimum. < 1501166741 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no? < 1501166753 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1501166754 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1501166792 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd craptimum//s/.*/A &./ < 1501166793 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :craptimum//A craptimum is a non-optimal optimum. < 1501166862 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :more frequently known as a suboptimum < 1501166896 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I'm a suboptimist! ) < 1501167017 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501167772 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501168236 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck do you copy a variable in python < 1501168242 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in seem to be put into a closure < 1501168244 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't want that. < 1501168255 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried (lambda lm: lambda f: f*lm)(m_) < 1501168266 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems lm in lambda f still receives modification to m_ < 1501168429 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1501168479 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501169141 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying in python is a deep subject < 1501169165 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the module is just named copy now < 1501169244 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501169390 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501169690 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501170005 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a float < 1501170126 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: deep, eh. < 1501170156 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote no.varia < 1501170156 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :cjs says: I have to explain this shit to people. I mean, I start out right, "Hey, you know how you always have these bugs because what you thought was in the variable is not there?" And I get all of < 1501170156 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :these nods of agreement. "Well, I've found a new language that solves that problem." Audience: "Ooooh! How?" Me: "There's no variables!" And then they all start moving away from me slowly.... < 1501170302 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive lisp solves this problem < 1501170307 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no variables < 1501170309 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just arguments < 1501170346 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very able language < 1501170373 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's easy to test < 1501170377 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whole program is just one function < 1501170427 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it involve functional testing? < 1501170466 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1501170469 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only do fuzzy testing. < 1501170564 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't write code < 1501170567 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just write an ann < 1501170570 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it some inputs and outputs < 1501170576 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then train it until it has 0 error < 1501170579 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're done < 1501170588 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a? < 1501170601 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's the 'a' in 'ann'?) < 1501170605 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :artificial < 1501170610 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :artificial neurotic network < 1501170614 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enoigh < 1501170630 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' neuro < 1501170631 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1501170637 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp neuro < 1501170651 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1501170670 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:4cea:682e:59ab:bf02 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501170716 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:ecc2:913d:e196:acf JOIN :#esoteric < 1501170726 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1501170726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :729) (help why are german) i play the german version of crawl i \ 694) fungot: Feeling scrambled after all that? fizzie: but it's much like new zealand, in my stone-age country, we still like you even if you're only using the new fnord < 1501170741 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what a logical command) < 1501171070 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' < 1501171071 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :476) i am out of all the fame loops and the australien soap opera loops so much loop / s omcuh < 1501171206 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501171309 0 :mroman!a055e872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.85.232.114 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501172501 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1501173650 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1501174413 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1501174459 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-189-251-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501175127 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501176124 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`⁗ < 1501176124 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ⁗: not found < 1501176128 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1501176833 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-189-251-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501177524 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1501177618 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build failed because of a stupid email address being malformed?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1501177673 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would only be that annoying if builds took a very long time hth < 1501177710 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :builds take 6 hours < 1501177752 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started this one via at at 2 am < 1501177890 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to encode fractions without losing space < 1501177917 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, a way of putting the fraction (1,2) without also having to lose space because (2,4) is the same fraction < 1501177925 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501178030 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any non-really awkward way < 1501178090 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like writing the prime factors of the numerator and then the prime factors of the denominator but in the set of primes that doesn't contain the primes of the numerator < 1501178165 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that 2/3 would be written ([1],[1]), for 2^1 and p^1 for the first prime that isn't in the numerator < 1501178250 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is there a way to know how much space you'd need for each prime factor? < 1501178279 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make every number under a certain value without any gaps < 1501178434 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, for every number up to 2, you only need 1 bit, to generate 2^0 and 2^1, but if you have 1 bit for 2 and 1 bit for 3, then you can generate 6 but not 5 < 1501178462 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an ideal number for each prime factor so that there is no gam < 1501178465 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :gap < 1501178527 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not known in general since the distribution of primes isn't known but does it work for a small enough value < 1501179032 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1501179075 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty is known < 1501179087 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, between n and 2n always exists a prime < 1501179100 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you are aware that the redundancy costs less than 2 bits on average < 1501179104 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be enough to destroy that < 1501179214 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the length of the farey sequence f_n, for all fractions with denominator up to n, is asymptotically 3/π^2×n^2) < 1501179276 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501179338 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farey sequence is indeed probably the ideal thing < 1501179508 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/⁗//cc 'int i,r,n;main(){for(;n<1e5;n++,r*=2){for(i=2;i*i<=n;i++)if(n%i==0&&r--)break;r++;if((r&511)==325)printf("%d,%d,%d,%d%c",n-8,n-6,n-2,n,10);}}' < 1501179510 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/⁗ < 1501179515 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`⁗ < 1501179516 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5,7,11,13 \ 11,13,17,19 \ 101,103,107,109 \ 191,193,197,199 \ 821,823,827,829 \ 1481,1483,1487,1489 \ 1871,1873,1877,1879 \ 2081,2083,2087,2089 \ 3251,3253,3257,3259 \ 3461,3463,3467,3469 \ 5651,5653,5657,5659 \ 9431,9433,9437,9439 \ 13001,13003,13007,13009 \ 15641,15643,15647,15649 \ 15731,15733,15737,15739 \ 16061,16063,16067,16069 \ 18041,18043, < 1501179765 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the stern-brocot encoding has no redundancies < 1501180244 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501180278 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501180485 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet++ < 1501180892 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501181016 0 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501182258 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501182526 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501182949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1501183354 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scaramucci's fandango is quite entertaining! so far it isn't very very frightening though. < 1501183460 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke got old fast < 1501183680 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501183908 0 :carado!~carado@51.15.37.153 PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 1.7.1" < 1501184287 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1501184399 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501184517 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: is there a deeper meaning behind calling the command ⁗ ... (deeper than <\oren\> `⁗)? < 1501184654 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1501184661 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⁗ < 1501184662 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2057 QUADRUPLE PRIME] < 1501184871 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501185138 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501185143 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1501185153 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m/f < 1501185169 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's transphobic < 1501185186 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is transophobics? < 1501185192 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ididnt undersyand < 1501185198 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501185235 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1501185281 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawns.
< 1501185310 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./pm One < 1501185407 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( One: What are you doing? Because I don't think you're doing what you think you're doing. ) < 1501185532 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to troll the channel, why don't you make an Ook! clone using Bow and wow. < 1501185546 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs for cover.
< 1501185589 0 :One!b2dccc3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.220.204.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501185601 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty scow < 1501185629 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/troll/aggrevate/. I think it could work. Just pretend it's the best thing since sliced bread. :) < 1501185643 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I see One is gone. < 1501185672 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( /topic Waiting for Two. | ... ) < 1501185713 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's probably too (two?) contextual. < 1501186197 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501187096 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think that was god. (Zechariah 14:9.) < 1501187117 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Godot. < 1501187269 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Good point, though the first search result for that yielded a bad translation. < 1501187352 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1501187541 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work in the Luther translation. Pity. ("... und sein Name der einzige") < 1501187557 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501187566 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in the original hth < 1501187592 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1501187609 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything works when one doesn't understand a single word. < 1501187659 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2314.htm hth < 1501187994 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1501188095 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501188283 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1501188508 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I only knew that because of the Unsong book. < 1501188549 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I read that? < 1501188567 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that, but I liked some parts of it. < 1501189754 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you recommend it? < 1501189839 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( As recommendations go this was rather lukewarm. ) < 1501190749 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501190985 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: whoa whoa whoa, what's this about arbitration? < 1501191350 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501191833 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1501192529 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1501193659 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1501194116 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1501194222 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1501194227 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:post-turing machine//A post-Turing machine is a machine from the post-Turing era. \ thyme//Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. \ ism//Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism". \ < 1501194236 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1501194237 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: galaxy//A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. \ lifthrasiir's font//lifthrasiir's font is https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png < 1501194250 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Numberwang (brainfuck derivative)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52558&oldid=50516 5* 03Conor O'Brien 5* (+665) 10 < 1501194320 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501194746 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some contract someone wanted me to sign. < 1501194756 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanted to sanity check against other people < 1501194782 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i opted not to sign something that said i would never sue them for anything ever again < 1501194808 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how much I should avoid arbitration. < 1501194819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the thing with contracts like that that they're frequently unenforcable < 1501194881 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think arbitration is often enforceable? < 1501194909 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Are you signing an employment agreement? < 1501194916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can believe that, i would be less sure about never being allowed to sue them < 1501194943 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Did you get a lawyer to look at it for you? < 1501194967 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a lawyer look at the last employment agreement I signed and propose amendments and so on, and I think it was worthwhile. < 1501195032 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, On June 26, 2015, Hawaii’s governor David Ige signed Act 158 which voids any “noncompete clause or a nonsolicit clause in any employment contract relating to an employee of a technology business.” < 1501195036 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg < 1501195055 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure why technology business employees should get special treatment. < 1501195074 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it came up in my normal job. customer wants to hire us, but requires individuals to sign contract. < 1501195082 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1501195085 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the contract is basically for 3 weeks of work < 1501195099 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looking at the details of this Act 158 is less encouraging. < 1501195112 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but says i will only file complaints through binding arbitration forever, and no class action lawsuits < 1501195113 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :«"Noncompete clause" means a clause in an employment contract that prohibits an employee from working in a specific geographic area for a specific period of time after leaving employment with the employer.» < 1501195656 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Is this still NCC? < 1501195771 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncc is my employer.. not the customer who wanted me to sign thing < 1501195782 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will remain nameless < 1501195784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats an ncc < 1501195796 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I meant your current employer. < 1501195800 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.nccgroup.trust/us/ < 1501195810 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust/us, huh? < 1501195838 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust in me, just in me, close your eyes, and trust in me.. slide into silent slumber, sail on silvery mist, slowly but surely your senses will cease to exist... < 1501195935 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, NCC is a public company? < 1501195972 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: do you have any ""good security facts for us"" < 1501195987 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the next ROP < 1501195996 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOP < 1501196011 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~liangzk/papers/asiaccs11.pdf < 1501196046 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501196080 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good security facts: complex things are harder to secure. < 1501196085 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501196095 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :security fact: code has bugs, some bugs are security vulnerabilities. < 1501196117 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :security fact: if its not one thing, its another. < 1501196174 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.vex.net/~trebla/humour/tautologies.html < 1501196216 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway obviously I was asking for stock tips. What's the next Roper Technologies Inc.? < 1501196259 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this thing relies on indirect jumps? < 1501196263 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501196293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501196381 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501196382 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it would be trickier to find gadgets for that. I guess I should see how it works. < 1501196560 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" i opted not to sign something that said i would never sue them for anything ever again" => hmm wait, let me check what exactly the clause about arbitration in that contract I had signed says < 1501196585 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon OH SHIT HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA < 1501196643 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did ask the company to change the phrasing of certain other clauses in that contract, but not of the arbitration clause. < 1501196703 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yah, indirect jumps. thats not the best paper on the subject but i had a hard time finding the other one in a few minutes google search < 1501196711 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some programs have lots of indirect jumps. < 1501196730 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they need to be indirect jumps that are useful. < 1501196761 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should invent a good technique for exploiting ghc-generated code twh < 1501196770 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many jumps < 1501196801 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it is. It says that a certain court of arbitration will decide disputes about the contract, but only "all disputes arising from or in connection with the provisions on intellectual property rights regulated in this agreement, their breach, termination, validity or interpretation". < 1501196815 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but ghc code never has bugs! < 1501196816 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1501196819 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say that I can't sue them, and definitely doesn't even try to suggest that this applies "for anything" as opposed to only for intellectual property rights. < 1501196833 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously the bug is going to come from the FFI. < 1501196906 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when we implemented unsafeCoerce in this channel? < 1501196914 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was TG. < 1501196946 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Puzzle: Given unsafeCoerce, in GHC code, but no arbitrary imports (so e.g. no access to any IO), can you execute arbitrary code? < 1501196952 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :page 15 here: https://repository.lib.ncsu.edu/bitstream/handle/1840.4/4135/TR-2010-8.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y < 1501196968 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a good way to understand the technique.. walk through the details of how that executes < 1501196990 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, adding &isAllowed=y to the end of a URL to see a paper is the real exploit. < 1501196999 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear the answer is yes, unsafeCoerce is enough for that, but that's only anecdotal < 1501197007 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Hear from whom? < 1501197009 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty esolang relevant since you basically just build an interpretter < 1501197015 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the internets < 1501197017 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly you can implement unsafePerformIO with unsafeCoerce. < 1501197026 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm talking about a case where you don't have IO. < 1501197028 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I'm mixing up unsafePerformIO with unsafeCoerce < 1501197034 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, don't have, uh, ByteString. < 1501197078 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: could you just cast some data pointer to something that will get interpreted as a function pointer, to try to jump to some code that the program doesn't expect to jump to? < 1501197089 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you? < 1501197100 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can certainly get it to jump to some data pointer. < 1501197110 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can you construct one that will actually let you do anything? < 1501197114 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I've no idea how ghc's low level representation works < 1501197115 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please advise. < 1501197118 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes. < 1501197127 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1501197130 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, don't just jump to some data pointer, but say jump to some number that wasn't proven to be a pointer < 1501197132 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1501197136 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like jump to an integer you supply < 1501197152 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and then what? < 1501197156 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that integer happens to be the address of some code, but not code you're supposed to jump to < 1501197172 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and how do you put code at that address? < 1501197183 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap spraying? < 1501197185 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't put code there, you reuse some code already in libc or the haskell runtime < 1501197195 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: no no, you use an already executable page < 1501197207 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't want to mmap anything to executable here, at least not for bootstrapping < 1501197211 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just use existing code < 1501197215 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sort of situation I'm proposing is, say, some online Haskell evaluation service that relies on the type system for security. < 1501197225 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly pass the right arguments < 1501197225 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't let you import anything with IO. < 1501197234 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does let you implement unsafeCoerce because of a GHC bug. < 1501197237 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can you do? < 1501197249 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, call system("rm -rf /") where system is a function from libc or that sort of thing < 1501197251 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does attacker control? cmd line args? environment? OS settings? < 1501197285 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say the attacker submits program.hs which exports a value. < 1501197296 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob: if you control a jump, you'll also have to manage to pont the stack pointer to something that looks like an activation frame with a pointer to the "rm -rf /" string as an arg < 1501197323 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You compile it with -XSafe and import restrictions. < 1501197337 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: yes, so it doesn't need to be the system function in particular, and I imagine you'd call it without a valid return address < 1501197422 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you refer to system? All you have is a Haskell program. < 1501197459 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iter0) aslr is off, system is at a fixed location, you happen to figured out where and abuse it < 1501197462 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iter1) .... < 1501197502 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1501197508 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's an easier solution < 1501197534 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you said import restrictions. but don't you still have the Prelude, which contains file IO functions like writeFile ? < 1501197549 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't in scope. < 1501197556 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom prelude. < 1501197560 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1501197613 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I really don't know, because the details probably depend on how ghc internally represents haskell stuff, and I'm not familiar with that < 1501197622 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the runtime representations that is < 1501197649 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'll abuse unsafeCoerce by trying to use a value that represents one thing as if it represented another thing < 1501197661 0 :PattuX!uid129971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxspiszuefvmquzo JOIN :#esoteric < 1501197709 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are the details I'm interested in. < 1501197728 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about it a bit a few years ago and didn't figure out anything. < 1501197731 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you may have to ask in #haskell or #ghc or something if you don't get an answer here < 1501197735 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But something is probably possible? < 1501198125 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand is why the rust standard libraries declare the file open and system functions as safe functions (in the rust sense, that is, directly callable from rust without unsafe code). < 1501198163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1501198264 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system function lets you run arbitrary commands, and those commands could then do anything, including rudely write into your rust process's memory, which violates the memory safety guarantees that safe rust code is supposed to have. < 1501198285 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198303 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file open functions, at least the ones for writing files, also usually let you execute arbitrary commands indirectly, because you can overwrite config files that other programs trust. < 1501198336 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you know why they're declared safe. < 1501198368 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is that it's for stupid marketing reasons: they try to pretend that you can write basically any useful program in just safe rust. < 1501198420 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I know that we can't change them now, for historical compatibility: making them unsafe or removing them now would break too many programs. < 1501198463 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198479 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1501198479 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198502 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1501198753 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198886 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-oyoyqcrndilrgype QUIT :Excess Flood < 1501198902 0 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198910 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1501198910 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-snaowshhbntlmttg QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1501198911 0 :alercah_!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198916 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Excess Flood < 1501198918 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this fac-simile edition of an old book, of which all three authors are long dead so all the content is in public domain, why did they write "All rights reserved" together with copyright notices naming only the republisher with the year 2016? < 1501198918 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that minor fraud, them misrepresenting the copyright? < 1501198918 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501198926 0 :molum!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198938 0 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198940 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198946 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198948 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198963 0 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1501198966 0 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :Excess Flood < 1501198968 0 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1501198969 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501198970 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501198979 0 :relrod_!~relrod@origin.elrod.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1501198980 0 :relrod_!~relrod@origin.elrod.me QUIT :Changing host < 1501198980 0 :relrod_!~relrod@redhat/relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1501199005 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501199008 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501199040 0 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1501199045 0 :quintopi1!?@? NICK :quintopia < 1501199065 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1501199065 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1501199100 0 :relrod_!?@? NICK :relrod < 1501199118 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Changing host < 1501199118 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-bvzinwbphflobxop JOIN :#esoteric < 1501199119 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/session QUIT :Changing host < 1501199119 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-eakedoflcmtquvow JOIN :#esoteric < 1501199190 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: perhaps they have rights the specific form they published it in, even if they main contents are public domain < 1501199198 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: which book is it btw < 1501199254 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's a fac-simile edition, so the layout of each page is exactly the same as that in the old book, so no. I believe none of the contributions they added establishes new copyright. < 1501199284 0 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1501199310 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1501199351 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ''Arany János Balladái Zichy Mihály rajzaival”, foreword by Riedl Frigyes, (2016) Kossuth Kiadó, MTA Könyvtár és Információs Központ – Országos Széchényi Könyvtár, ISBN: 978-963-09-8596-3. Based on books of same title (vols. I–IV.), Budapest, Ráth Mór, 1895–1898. < 1501199392 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Do you like Laszlo Polgar? < 1501199394 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful books, I intend to full distribute digital copy on the internets if there isn't one up there yet. < 1501199405 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1501199417 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no clue, I don't know much about him < 1501199448 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf, wellob_jellonas. < 1501199531 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I may have to get my hands on the originals, or at least some other edition between the two, rather than this edition: not for intellectual property reasons, but for technical quality reasons: < 1501199543 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new edition is printed with digital tech that makes all the images have a fine grid pattern, which might cause some ugly Moiré patterns when scanned or photographed. < 1501199553 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: i bet that the copyright message itself is copyrighted to the publisher < 1501199555 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1501199598 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that fine grid pattern is copyright too < 1501199614 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hehe... but no, the copyright message itself isn't original enough for being subject to copyright < 1501199689 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by the way, the front cover is also copying the cover of the old books, so no, that's not what the copyright is about either < 1501199881 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the three pages of foreword isn't fac-simile, but retyped and printed in a new layout and new font, and they're asserting their copyright over the font? < 1501199963 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The foreword is junk by the way, I wish it was still copyrighted so that I would have an excuse to not republish it.