< 1501200185 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, socat crashed, hasn't done that in a while... not feeling happy about that < 1501200632 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello. you managed that how? < 1501200654 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't KNOW. < 1501200682 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it involves SSL, but still it should not crash. < 1501200695 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1501200703 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bot < 1501200711 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1501200751 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@snack < 1501200757 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts on her slapping gloves, and slaps
< 1501200788 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdie is of the feminine persuasion? < 1501200854 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and angelic https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot < 1501200870 0 :molum!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501200891 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I expect a lot of that page is outdated, but I'm linking to it for the avatar.) < 1501200920 0 :molum!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1501201002 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great. now we can get into that endless internet dispute about whether angels have a gender, where part of the problem is that there are tons of different creatures called angels with different properties (just like with dragons, trolls, fairies, werewolves, etc) but everyone is sure that the version they prefer is the only TRUE angels. < 1501201048 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on whether angels have wings, and by extension, whether balrogs have wings, whether balrogs can fly, whether balrogs are creatures of fire, and how large balrogs are < 1501201076 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? balrog < 1501201077 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balrogs live at the bottom of the world. < 1501201085 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? angel < 1501201086 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :angel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201087 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dragon < 1501201088 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels. < 1501201088 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? troll < 1501201089 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201092 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fairy < 1501201093 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201094 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fair < 1501201095 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201096 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fairies < 1501201097 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairies? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201099 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? werewolf < 1501201100 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :werewolf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201100 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? vampire < 1501201101 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we don't need any of those < 1501201101 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf. < 1501201103 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? garlic < 1501201104 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :garlic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201118 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dwarf < 1501201119 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501201196 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :angels are a bitch to be on the receiving end of. flying, buffs your other creatures, hard to get rid of... < 1501201530 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dwarf is like an invisible elf. You rarely see one, but it's there to help identify your problem when trouble strikes. < 1501201635 0 :trn!jhj@prone.ws PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite esoteric but these days it might be :) I have a public access multics instance up and available via ssh or mosh dps8@m.trnsz.com < 1501201641 0 :alercah_!?@? NICK :alercah < 1501201652 0 :trn!jhj@prone.ws PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am almost done with a PL/I gopher server :) < 1501201684 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multics instance? wow. is it running on actual hardware, or simulated? < 1501201686 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trellon. < 1501202087 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is the ssh daemon itself running on the multics instance? < 1501202284 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but regardless of the answers, I say wow. a working multics instance is a serious computer archaeology achievement < 1501202361 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they just release the source? < 1501202386 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: even if they did, getting it to actually run is probably nontrivial < 1501202414 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer to that would be "it depends". apparently it runs on a simulator. < 1501202457 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :real hardware would be entertaining. < 1501202599 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're running it on a simulator, I wonder if you can give it a hundred times more RAM, backing store, and CPU processing power as the historically accurate hardware could ever have. < 1501202838 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52559&oldid=52557 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+175) 10 < 1501203628 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: if you use multiple trello to-do lists, are they collectively your "trellon"? < 1501203652 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer trelleaux hth < 1501203690 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just pluralizing trello. it's not a collective noun at all! < 1501206072 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1501206184 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: "featured" just means it has features hth <-- O KAY < 1501207535 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1501207536 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :np-complete//NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them. < 1501207929 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: AMERICAN CHICKEN < 1501208460 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501208696 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501208950 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501209439 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks mroman must be severely confused about dot products.
< 1501209463 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp feature < 1501209465 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ä:Ä is a Swedish geographical feature. \ degenerate:Degenerate things are those that have been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. The subjects of this sui degeneris program include spaghoti sauce, talking spheres of zero volume, and watches without mustard. \ eyebrow:Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature. \ intercal:INTERCAL has excelle < 1501209486 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 grWp feature < 1501209488 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:ent features for modular program for the enterprise market. \ java:Java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures. \ lua:Lua is an object-oriented programming language that doesn't have any features, but you're smart enough to figure out how to use it anyway. Taneb is written in Lua. \ umlaut:Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", a < 1501209535 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The degeneration is the generation that watches the Ellen DeGeneres show. < 1501209537 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'degeneration': The degeneration is the generation that watches the Ellen DeGeneres show. < 1501209565 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The degeneration is the generation that watches the Ellen DeGeneres show. See also degenerate. < 1501209567 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'degeneration': The degeneration is the generation that watches the Ellen DeGeneres show. See also degenerate. < 1501209612 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1501209613 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:n important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable. < 1501209678 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? accusative < 1501209679 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accusative? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501209755 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn Accusative//Only evil people use the accusative. < 1501209756 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'accusative': Only evil people use the accusative. < 1501210517 0 :sheshiresat!~sheshires@gateway/tor-sasl/sheshiresat JOIN :#esoteric < 1501210809 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spots a lewis sarroll fan
< 1501210951 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501211390 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501211872 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501212124 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And, don't have, uh, ByteString. <-- Integers have large bytearrays inside, i think you should be able to use that. < 1501212258 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for getting an arbitrary byte sequence to jump to) < 1501212399 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( how come shachaf isn't here, he's always here. ) < 1501212502 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1833@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.51 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1501212568 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if executability would be a problem. < 1501212583 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(page) < 1501212667 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1501212955 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If you can jump into the right offset. < 1501212994 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :String literals are encoded in UTF-8 too, but I'm not sure how to use that. < 1501213015 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're in read-only memory, so it should be easier. < 1501213064 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to get to them before they're evaluated into proper lists, i guess.. < 1501213122 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, unsafeCoerce a thunk into something that _won't_ get evaluated... < 1501213359 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501213483 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have finish making MIXPC by now (except the documentation is not finished being written yet). There is no floating-point, although it does include XOR, JAE, JAO, JXE, JXO. I also fixed various mistakes from before, and added a few new things such as the ability to hide the register display (which can be used for games with hidden information, but also makes it execute much faster). < 1501213508 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have it available right now but perhaps in next week I can make this program available for download < 1501213584 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501214053 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other thing it doesn't have is paper tape) < 1501214724 0 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-32-34.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1501214840 0 :Slereah__!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-65-174.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501214855 0 :sheshiresat!~sheshires@gateway/tor-sasl/sheshiresat QUIT :Quit: broke something < 1501214907 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501215819 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501215931 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have implemented J. Stein's "binary gcd algorithm" (described in The Art of Computer Programming, 4.5.2, Algorithm B) in MMIX. I have then afterward looked at the official version and found I did it differently. I did it like this: http://sprunge.us/UaOS < 1501215980 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the official version: http://mmix.cs.hm.edu/supplement/4.5.2/euclidb.mms < 1501216888 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have tested my program and it does work OK) < 1501218175 0 :augur_!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501218244 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501218860 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501219057 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1501220446 0 :PattuX!uid129971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxspiszuefvmquzo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1501221080 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501222447 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have you proven it? < 1501223202 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501223900 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1086 < 1501223903 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1086: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1501223932 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1501224763 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum, i seem to have missed one before < 1501225320 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1501225699 0 :augur_!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501227014 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1501228659 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501229735 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501231317 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501232873 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501233148 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501234874 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501235042 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1501235067 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501238927 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501239091 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501239571 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501239817 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501239877 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501239896 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501240378 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501240598 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501241577 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501241680 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501241684 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501241700 0 :erkin!~erkin@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501241786 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1501242218 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1501242220 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tc//Tc is the abbreviation for Technetium, an element so sophisticated that it does not exist naturally. < 1501242951 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501242995 0 :PattuX!uid129971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dfmgjoggrmznmhuv JOIN :#esoteric < 1501244020 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tc < 1501244021 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tc is the abbreviation for Technetium, an element so sophisticated that it does not exist naturally. < 1501244028 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? TC < 1501244029 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tc is the abbreviation for Technetium, an element so sophisticated that it does not exist naturally. < 1501244042 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w turing < 1501244043 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :post-turing machine//A post-Turing machine is a machine from the post-Turing era. < 1501244288 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Jafet < 1501244289 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501244346 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about posturing machines < 1501244585 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will shape the AI rebellion into form. < 1501244858 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: FROZEN CHICKEN < 1501245032 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501245577 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :skynet ! < 1501245595 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ask for a chobits
< 1501245619 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501246435 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501246605 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1501247388 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501249543 0 :tswett!~tswett@167.73.32.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501249562 0 :tswett!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my favorite topological separation axiom. < 1501249582 0 :tswett!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every pair of distinct points in the space, there exists a set containing one but not the other. < 1501249964 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:ecc2:913d:e196:acf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1501250432 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501252120 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501252382 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501252420 0 :Mayoi!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Client Quit < 1501252435 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501252598 0 :erkin!~erkin@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501252617 0 :tswett!~tswett@167.73.32.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501252748 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1501253005 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one formulate that in pointless topology? < 1501253494 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1501254168 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1501257534 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1501257689 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:ecc2:913d:e196:acf QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1501257756 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:617a:ba6:165c:b459 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501258099 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why bother? :P < 1501258752 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501259107 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: because this is #esoteric :P < 1501259150 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's pointless < 1501259154 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1501259156 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501260150 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501260499 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kaamilj 5* 10New user account < 1501260597 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-24-8-135-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501261140 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1501264348 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yehhbzurnkgmuqac JOIN :#esoteric < 1501270944 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501271348 0 :TellsTogo!3ecd555f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.85.95 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501271435 0 :stellHex!81696e08@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.105.110.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501271786 0 :stellHex!81696e08@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.105.110.8 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1501272190 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1501272243 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the plural of dystopia is dystopiai < 1501272438 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plural of which is presumably dystopiaia < 1501273179 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501273726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1501274500 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this falls under "know your audience": http://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1966 < 1501274700 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1501274718 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1501275046 0 :PattuX!uid129971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dfmgjoggrmznmhuv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1501276207 0 :augur!~augur@104.236.181.226 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501276381 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501276416 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.trustwave.com/Company/Technology-Partners/ < 1501276438 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll down to the bottom and right click the trustwave logo < 1501276520 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"copying prohibited by law" < 1501276522 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501276532 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I see the law. < 1501276538 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501276630 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.trustwave.com/Legal-Documents/Modern-Slavery-Statement/ < 1501276803 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Hmm, I guess this law requires Javascript to work. ) < 1501276834 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though tbf, without javascript, there is no such logo at the bottom < 1501276849 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1501276877 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is still easy enough to find it in the source anyways < 1501276885 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Modern Slavery Act 2015". never expected that from Obama < 1501276899 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The URL is https://sealserver.trustwave.com/seal_image.php < 1501276976 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a curious claim anyway. < 1501277056 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1501277101 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... there is a locale of all surjections from natural numbers ... to real numbers .... This locale has no points, since there are no such surjections, but it contains many nontrivial open subspaces ..." https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/locale < 1501277104 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this witchcraft. < 1501277332 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be a "service mark", buthow, pray, does that prohibit making copies for personal entertainment? < 1501277342 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pray *tell* < 1501277403 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1501277538 0 :g0d355__!~lmao@104.131.75.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501277723 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd be more convinced by a DMCA claim :-P) < 1501277774 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since clearly the "intellectual property" is "protected" by "state-of-the-art technology" (namely, Javascript). < 1501277791 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: did you know that if ZFC is consistent, then it must have a countable model? < 1501277804 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1501277843 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a fun thing to ponder for a while, in order to resolve the apparent contradiction with the existence of uncountable sets. < 1501277884 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett_: I learned about locales from _Topology via Logic_ by Vickers. < 1501277889 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Well, I didn't learn that much. < 1501277902 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/apparent/seeming/ for the nitpickers among us < 1501277905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, even i knew that < 1501277934 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, all consistent first-order theories with countably many axioms have countable models... right? < 1501277947 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've read that part of the book more thoroughly. < 1501277974 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more, there's a definable function which takes any consistent first-order theory with countably many axioms, and returns a countable model of it. < 1501278004 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1501278006 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' Skolem < 1501278007 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1501278047 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(second name in Löwenheim-Skolem, in case it wasn't obvious) < 1501278057 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' skolem < 1501278058 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1501278071 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I could count on this channel < 1501278095 0 :PattuX!uid129971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zttqbegnhdvkdwag JOIN :#esoteric < 1501278097 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to be kind of a skeptic of infinite stuff, especially involving the axiom of choice. < 1501278132 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you just say "if it's consistent, it must have a countable model", I'll think, yeah, well, the proof of that probably involves the axiom of choice and all sorts of other set-theoretic abstract nonsense. < 1501278137 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except no, it doesn't. < 1501278148 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an *explicitly defined* countable model. < 1501278197 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501278519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense when you realise that 'uncountable' just means 'can't construct a bijection to N' < 1501278603 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4l9UgiOLKA < 1501278653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In general, the Löwenheim–Skolem theorem does not hold in stronger logics such as second-order logic." < 1501278678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i've never understood what's supposed to be so horrible about second-order logic that it's worth putting up with all the ridiculous bullshit that comes up in first-order logic < 1501278777 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501278872 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not complete. Theories can have consequences which necessarily hold, but which aren't provable. < 1501278879 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's some justification for disliking the failure of completeness in second order logic. < 1501278879 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one disadvantage. < 1501278882 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one disadvantage is sufficient. :D < 1501278927 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case I don't know what you mean by "ridiculous bullshit". < 1501278938 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that may be the main disagreement. < 1501279015 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So lemme go through the Henkin construction here. < 1501279022 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose we've got a consistent first-order theory with countably many axioms. < 1501279023 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo. < 1501279024 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not true that people don't use second or higher order logics; it's just that for the foundations of set theory, first order logic is sufficient. < 1501279053 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can build models of higher logics in there, so everybody ought to be happy < 1501279091 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used second order logic in my master's thesis a lot < 1501279143 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, first, we "maximize" the theory. < 1501279157 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a statement which is consistent with the theory, but not in the theory, we add it. < 1501279166 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat until all such statements are exhausted. < 1501279252 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dym Herbrand? *wonders* < 1501279276 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably my fault though. < 1501279312 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next, we "populate" the theory. For each axiom of the form "there exists x such that ...", we add a constant and assert that that constant is an example of an axiom. < 1501279324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : In any case I don't know what you mean by "ridiculous bullshit". < 1501279327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well like < 1501279332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have countable models of zfc < 1501279442 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure but why is that a bad thing? It's a brain teaser that helps you get the separation of meta level and logic level straight. < 1501279462 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1501279477 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Population" is not recursive; if population adds a new axiom of the form "there exists y such that ...", you don't add another constant and another axiom for that. < 1501279615 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you maximize again, populate again, maximize again, populate again, and so on forever. < 1501279693 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you've got a theory that has two interesting properties. < 1501279709 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, every statement consistent with the theory is an axiom of the theory. < 1501279761 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, given any provable statement of the form "there exists x such that ...", there's an axiom giving an example of that statement. < 1501279899 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boom... < 1501279909 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of all constants in this theory is a model of the original theory! < 1501280256 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENRAL JON KELLY IS NEW CHEIF OF STAFF < 1501280272 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIENCE PRIEBUS FIRED! < 1501280286 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't shout < 1501280299 0 :TellsTogo!3ecd555f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.85.95 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1501280302 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Jafet < 1501280303 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1501280333 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So a locale is just the opposite of a frame... < 1501280353 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that a locale is equivalent to a frame, but a morphism of locales A -> B is a morphism of frames B -> A. < 1501280430 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1501280448 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A complete Heyting algebra is also the same thing, but has yet another notion of morphism. < 1501281496 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So apparently the cofinite topology on a non-finite set is not sober. < 1501281529 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. So the cofinite topology produces a locale... the cofinite locale, I guess? < 1501281551 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's a "concrete point" in this locale, then... < 1501281556 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1501281557 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a collection of open sets such that... < 1501281604 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501281624 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a set is in the collection, all bigger sets are also in the collection... < 1501281676 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is the intersection of any two sets in the collection?... < 1501281680 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you figure out a point-free definition of "manifold"? twh < 1501281685 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/C/c/ < 1501281703 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :os < 1501281740 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now wait, what's a morphism of locales A -> B. < 1501281751 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It maps open sets in B to open sets in A. < 1501281775 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subsets must remain subsets. < 1501281800 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finite intersections must be preserved exactly. Arbitrary unions, too. < 1501281820 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, "sets" need not be sets at all. < 1501281826 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term is just a mnemonic. < 1501281859 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1501281870 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a "concrete point" in this locale is... < 1501281891 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A collection of open sets such that if a set is in the collection, all bigger sets are also in the collection... < 1501281910 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the intersection of finitely many sets is in the collection iff all of those sets are in the collection... < 1501281923 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the union of any number of sets is in the collection iff at least one of those sets is in the collection. < 1501281996 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what if I think I can think of a concrete point in the cofinite locale on Z? Namely... the number 44. < 1501282009 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my alleged "concrete point" is the collection of all cofinite sets containing 44. < 1501282191 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wait, wait. < 1501282204 0 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.8 < 1501282235 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't every non-empty locale admit at least two concrete points, one of them containing all open sets and the other containing no open sets? < 1501282291 0 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1501282332 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...where "non-empty" means something like "having at least two open sets"... < 1501282651 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whoops. < 1501282663 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, cancel that whoops. < 1501283055 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's talk about my nasty case of anti-realism. < 1501283074 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-94-147.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1501283080 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really believe that the word "group" really refers to a real thing. < 1501283083 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, anyway. < 1501283085 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1501283098 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do admit that there are ways of specifying a group. < 1501283118 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way to specify a group is to give a finite presentation of it. < 1501283145 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise, I don't consider the concept of a category to be a real concept, but I admit that there are ways of specifying categories, too. < 1501283159 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, likewise, specify a category by giving a finite presentation of it. < 1501283171 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, consider the category of groups. < 1501283176 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just specified a category, didn't I? < 1501283195 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phrase "the category of groups" seems like a perfectly valid specification of a category. < 1501283204 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-94-147.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1501283254 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the category of groups isn't finitely presented. < 1501283277 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, here's an even better example: the category of sets. < 1501283281 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not finitely presented, either. < 1501283444 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how can I *specify* the category of groups? < 1501283453 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just write down the definition of a group and say, "it's the category of these things". < 1501283470 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not very satisfying. < 1501283508 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... < 1501283612 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a particular finite product category, the syntactic category of groups, Con(Grp). < 1501283647 0 :TellsTogo!3ecd555f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.85.95 JOIN :#esoteric < 1501283674 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A group is just a functor Con(Grp) -> Set which preserves finite products. < 1501283693 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Con(Grp) is a finitely generated finite product category, of course. < 1501283889 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The category of groups is just the category of natural transformations of these functors. < 1501284071 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want to make a trivial Windows 3.1 executable, is Open Watcom my best option? < 1501284177 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure don't know how to make Windows 3.1 executables. < 1501284182 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't djgpp work with 3.1? < 1501284230 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it supports 3.1 < 1501284240 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a target or host? < 1501284246 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :both. < 1501284263 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, DJGPP proper is just DOS. < 1501284265 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to make a substitute shell for PROGMAN.EXE < 1501284268 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/v2faq/faq3_6.html < 1501284281 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Currently, you can only run DJGPP programs under Windows as DOS apps (i.e. inside the DOS Box). If you need to write true Windows apps, you will have to use auxiliary tools or another compiler." < 1501284297 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Internet Archive's Win3.1 emulator replaces PROGMAN.EXE in SYSTEM.INI with a target program < 1501284324 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your end goal? < 1501284493 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get Worlds Chat Gold running in the browser. < 1501284520 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worlds Chat Gold's main executable requires an argument... < 1501284545 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a copy of Borland C++ 4.5 on one of those CDs you used to get glued on the covers of PC magazines in the 90s. < 1501284547 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't edit the system.ini? < 1501284567 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode, I can edit system.ini, in fact that's what the files in IA's copy of Win3.1 does. < 1501284589 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it replaces PROGMAN.EXE with .exe, why not just append the command line arguments. < 1501284595 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think Windows 3.1 doesn't like it if you try to give anything other than a single executable for shell= < 1501284602 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried < 1501284612 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a batch file. < 1501284615 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried that < 1501284620 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the result? < 1501284625 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't work < 1501284637 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it complained about PROGMAN.EXE, but don't fully remember < 1501284647 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :any specific error messages? < 1501284655 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1501284687 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost dead sure that there's more than a dozen programs up on the archive that take command line parameters. < 1501284696 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use an existing program that's meant to be used as a win3.1 shell? < 1501284801 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dare I ask, have you tried putting quotations around the whole string? < 1501284899 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=23913 < 1501284907 0 :tswett_!~tswett@167.73.32.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go hang with myself in #tswett a bit and continue talking about category theory. < 1501284942 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I suppose you can do this with a custom SYSTEM.INI. Rather than having it open the default PROGMAN.EXE (Program Manager) using the "shell=" setting, you could have it open the game instead, effectively replacing the Program Manager shell with the game, turning Win3.1 into a single-task system which will close as soon as its shell (the game) terminates. " < 1501284950 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is exactly what following IA standards does. < 1501285058 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way I could help you is if I had a win3.1 install. < 1501285077 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://cors.archive.org/cors/emularity_win31/win31.zip < 1501285080 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That + DOSBox < 1501285097 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think IA necessarily wants people downloading and using that directly < 1501285097 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, and the program you want on it? < 1501285141 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jedi.servequake.com/files1/Worlds/worldsgold.zip < 1501285155 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try my darndest. < 1501285160 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have nothing to do while this code compiles. < 1501285294 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. so dosbox calls runapp with a command, which sets the ini option and then runs windows, which runs the shell. < 1501285305 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool beans. < 1501285596 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so is D: supposed to be where my windows install is? and C: is where the app is? < 1501285604 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1501285648 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, well I managed to launch the setup. < 1501285724 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command to start the program once it's installed is C:\WORLDS\CHAT\BIN\ACER522.EXE C:\WORLDS\CHAT\SHELGOLD.PAC < 1501285735 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think from C:\WORLDS\CHAT\ directory < 1501285790 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. one sec. < 1501285795 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me how to release my mouse cursor from the window. < 1501285818 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In DOSBOX you push middle button to grab/ungrab mouse < 1501285829 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you. < 1501286033 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVSF3: Error opening C:\WORLDS\CHAT\BIN\ACER522.BAL/START.inf < 1501286093 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a mistargeted directory. < 1501286212 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OVSF3: Error opening" is in ACER522.EXE < 1501286220 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyup. < 1501286246 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98980.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to compile my program, it says undefined symbol execl_