←2017-08-04 2017-08-05 2017-08-06→ ↑2017 ↑all
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01:03:49 <ATMunn> \o/ now my fizzbuzz thing outputs buzz instead of the number on every multiple of 5
01:04:15 <ATMunn> man there's something so satisfying about watching a program counter/instruction pointer fly through a befunge program :p
01:05:32 <ATMunn> now to make it output fizz on multiples of 3, and fizzbuzz on multiples of 15
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01:09:48 <imode> damnit. how do I signal the end of a valid path when all I can use is binary?!
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01:27:52 <rdococ> Idea - a super-lazy language: a language which /actively/ avoids evaluating expressions, even if they'd normally be necessary.
01:29:06 <rdococ> say you have: var x := 3; var y := 2; var z := sqrt(x^2 + y^2); if (z < 5) { return }; here, the language will avoid evaluating the sqrt, prefering rather to square the 5
01:47:21 <imode> I wonder if I could store the traversal in reverse order so that I terminate when I get to the parent.
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02:42:27 <Warrigal_> Wisdom from the layered unit net:
02:42:28 <Warrigal_> 23:12:43 <hppavilion[1]> So, it's actually intended for instance for the fucking pokemon point, multi-uninteresting!
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02:43:45 <Warrigal_> 22:06:00 <lambdabot> Define montal maxlack (cannot bother nickname with sweden)
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02:51:42 <imode> what does lambdabot have against swedish nicknames.
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05:29:23 <ais523> rdococ: that's basically a symbolic evaluation language
05:29:36 <ais523> instead of calculating the values of things, you have them as unevaluated expressions
05:29:49 <ais523> and then things like conditional operators will compare the expressions symbolically
05:30:31 <ais523> this also lets you do things like compare expressions with uninitialized variables in and get a yes/no/maybe response
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06:13:37 <oerjan> "layered unit" \\ "neural"
06:13:40 <oerjan> > "layered unit" \\ "neural"
06:13:42 <lambdabot> "yed it"
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06:43:51 <oerjan> `? lunac
06:43:52 <HackEgo> lunac? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
06:43:54 <oerjan> `? lunacy
06:43:55 <HackEgo> lunacy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
06:44:30 <oerjan> `learn LUNacy is wisdom generated by a neu^Wlayered unit net. Ask Warrigal for details.
06:44:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'lunacy': LUNacy is wisdom generated by a neu^Wlayered unit net. Ask Warrigal for details.
06:50:53 <shachaf> `grWp for details
06:51:04 <HackEgo> goat:Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details. \ lunacy:LUNacy is wisdom generated by a neu^Wlayered unit net. Ask Warrigal for details. \ monqy:monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, if you find him.
06:52:02 <shachaf> What was the command for simulating `...-style command line parsing?
06:52:36 <oerjan> `cat bin/nur
06:52:37 <HackEgo> ​"${1%% *}" "${1#* }"
06:53:43 <shachaf> Right.
06:53:49 <shachaf> `nur run
06:53:49 <HackEgo> run run run
06:54:47 <oerjan> `2 grWp for details
06:54:48 <HackEgo> 2/116:. \ ⊥:⊥ is a bottom tack, useful for annoying teachers. \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ 1:The 1 is just for disambiguation. \ `2:`2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've alrea
06:55:05 <oerjan> `2 grWp "for details"
06:55:06 <HackEgo> 2/1:
06:55:16 <oerjan> `1 grWp "for details"
06:55:18 <HackEgo> 1/1:goat:Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details. \ lunacy:LUNacy is wisdom generated by a neu^Wlayered unit net. Ask Warrigal for details. \ monqy:monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, if you find him.
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07:31:23 <Vorpal> hi
07:31:40 <oerjan> hirpal
07:32:48 * oerjan was inspired by the logs to try the "always solvable" mines in chatham's puzzles, but cannot see why this one is solvable.
07:34:10 <int-e> count?
07:34:23 <oerjan> hm it seems so.
07:34:48 <oerjan> i didn't think i had found enough mines to rule out just by count, but it seems i have.
07:34:57 <Vorpal> what is chatham's puzzles?
07:35:07 <oerjan> er
07:35:09 <Jafet> it's like hexham, but more chatty
07:35:11 <oerjan> *tatham
07:35:20 <Vorpal> doesn't help either
07:35:46 <Jafet> the mines generator just runs a constraint solver internally, I think
07:35:47 <Vorpal> minesweeper puzzles?
07:35:47 <oerjan> https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/
07:36:03 <oerjan> lots of puzzles, minesweeper is just one of them
07:36:37 <oerjan> *just by total count. obviously i've counted neighbors plenty.
07:38:35 <int-e> oh it even says so in the description
07:38:43 <Vorpal> the thing with that type of puzzle for me, I find it far more interesting inventing algorithms for solving it with a computer program than actually solving it myself
07:38:56 <oerjan> OKAY
07:39:01 <Vorpal> so not for me
07:39:01 <Jafet> `w itidus
07:39:56 <Vorpal> though minesweeper is kind of trivial in that regard, at least sudoku requires some thought of how to solve it efficiently
07:40:04 * oerjan prods HackEgo with the cane J======O
07:40:07 <oerjan> `echo hi
07:40:18 <Vorpal> I think it may be dead
07:40:42 <Vorpal> It's dead oerjan
07:41:19 <shachaf> The cane?
07:41:22 <oerjan> hm wiki may be too
07:41:37 <oerjan> shachaf: i've got a cane for telling people to get off my lawn, naturally
07:42:12 <oerjan> it's shape may be a little unstable.
07:42:14 <oerjan> *its
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07:44:20 <int-e> Vorpal: You can leave all the cleverness to a SAT solver.
07:45:27 <Vorpal> int-e: that is the boring option though
07:46:19 <int-e> (for Sudoku, I mean, though this extends to quite a lot of puzzles that don't involve guessing... mine sweeper gets kind of interesting if you try to maximize the winning probability on random starting grids)
07:46:37 <Vorpal> yeah okay that is true
07:47:48 <Vorpal> Hm, there should be more variants of minesweeper. Some ideas (they are probably not original): hex grids, board game version with tiles, multi-player (competitive on shared grid)
07:48:22 <Vorpal> Or why not more types of mines, with different radius effects?
07:49:01 <Vorpal> Or more attributes, not just number, but make the colour have a meaning (other than 1 is blue, 2 is green, ...)
07:49:25 <Vorpal> 3D minesweeper
07:49:37 <Vorpal> or even higher dimensionality
07:50:33 <Vorpal> moving mines, that can move about in patterns, but only under non-revealed tiles
07:57:27 <Jafet> I sense a seumas mcnally award in your future
07:59:38 <btiffin> Vorpal: got Funge-98 embedded in COBOL now. First step anyway. Used rcfunge as it doesn't use exit and rely on q to return top of stack. C and COBOL coding took about 10 minutes, playing with more Funge took hours.
08:00:00 <myname> i saw minesweeper with a hex grid on a sphere, it was pretty easy, though
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08:01:29 <myname> i also saw a minesweeper crawler where mines were opponents with different levels and the numbers were the sum of the adjacent levels. you will get damage if you attack monsters above your level
08:07:32 <oerjan> . o O ( you cannot put a hex grid on a sphere, it has the wrong euler characteristic )
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08:12:14 <myname> you are right, there were also pentagons
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08:27:51 <Taneb> Hmm, you can put a pentgrid on a sphere
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08:31:02 <oerjan> a small one.
08:31:51 <oerjan> wikipedia has a picture of a chocolate brownie and now i'm hungry :(
08:32:09 <oerjan> *+front page
08:38:18 * oerjan tries the esoteric solution known as "eating".
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08:51:59 <Taneb> You can make a pentgrid bigger with arbitrary numbers of hexagons, maybe
08:52:39 <oerjan> yes. but you will always have 12 pentagons that way.
08:54:29 <Taneb> Spheres a frustrating like that
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08:57:47 <shachaf> They have a lot of pent-up frustration.
08:59:54 <Taneb> oerjan, would you recommend eating?
09:00:04 <Taneb> I've heard good things about it but I'm not so sure
09:00:24 <shachaf> I think it depends a lot on what you eat.
09:00:33 <shachaf> Do you like mushrooms?
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09:01:53 <Taneb> From time to time
09:02:08 <Taneb> Had mushroom pasta the day before yesterday
09:04:26 <fizzie> "Subject: [FIRING:1] host_down (esolangs.org)". Unfortunately too sleepy to look into this now, and the machine isn't answering to SSH anyway. Will try again tomorrow.
09:07:20 <shachaf> Taneb: I don't recommend eating death caps.
09:08:22 <Taneb> I'll bear that in mind
09:09:58 <oerjan> Taneb: with moderation hth
09:10:15 <Taneb> oerjan, thank you tdh
09:11:38 <shachaf> Good thing oerjan is an op.
09:11:44 <oerjan> . o O ( some crazy people might consider it tomorrow already )
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09:12:56 <oerjan> are there _any_ foods with "death" in the name that are recommended to eat
09:13:10 <oerjan> it's pretty obvious, really.
09:13:51 <Taneb> Death by chocolate?
09:14:29 <oerjan> huh. so it is.
09:14:53 <oerjan> but clearly _someone_ is trying to kill me with chocolate today, anyway.
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09:33:45 <shachaf> oerjan: You'd think that it'd be easy, but people still eat them for some reason.
09:33:57 <shachaf> Apparently it's a delicious mushroom.
09:36:13 <oerjan> maybe something for one of those bucket lists. in one of the last spots.
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09:37:30 <Taneb> I recall seeing I think a Tumblr post that was like "Did you know you can drink magma???? But only once"
09:39:07 <oerjan> is suspect magma isn't delicious, though.
09:39:11 <oerjan> *i
09:41:06 <shachaf> I'm not sure I would describe it as drinking.
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09:55:20 <\oren\> I am da Μαֆד𝒆г of unicode!
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10:29:42 <zseri> esolangs.org seems down.
10:36:19 <Vorpal> zseri: so it does
10:36:25 <Vorpal> not sure who is responsible for it
10:37:41 <Vorpal> @tell btiffin Ah, good. That sort of integration seems less fun than what C-INTERCAL did though, with the calling back and forth between two separate programs
10:37:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:38:30 <Vorpal> myname: interesting
10:39:40 <Vorpal> myname: it seems to me there is a huge potential to invent new (possibly interesting, maaaybe good) games by just "x in y genre". I.e. the RPG style minesweeper you decribed
10:39:44 <Vorpal> described*
10:40:13 <Vorpal> <fizzie> "Subject: [FIRING:1] host_down (esolangs.org)". Unfortunately too sleepy to look into this now, and the machine isn't answering to SSH anyway. Will try again tomorrow. <-- so what timezone are you in? Thought you were in EU?
10:40:57 <myname> Vorpal: i totally agree
10:41:30 <Vorpal> myname: though now I'm trying to think what a minesweeper with RPGs would be like
10:41:36 <Vorpal> first person?
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10:42:30 <myname> i don't think that'll work
10:42:46 <myname> also, there is kind of a 3d sokoban
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10:43:19 <myname> and a tetris-like with sand
10:45:30 <Vorpal> myname: how does tetris with sand work?
10:46:04 <Vorpal> sand just piles up with a certain critical slope, so surely you could never reach the top of the stage before filling the width of the stage
10:46:21 <Vorpal> unless the stage is much shorter I guess
10:55:32 <myname> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hottato.sandagolite
10:59:14 <Vorpal> the video doesn't really explain the mechanics
10:59:39 <myname> if you have a big enoug pile of sand of one color, you can make it disappear
10:59:49 <Vorpal> (also, as a side note, it feels rather unprofessionally made, using a camera on a phone rather than screen capture)
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11:28:51 <Vorpal> myname: what about a tetris with mines such that you build up certain patterns of adjacency?
11:29:53 <myname> how?
11:30:22 <Vorpal> not sure... maybe one person plays tetris to generate the level that another person solve as a mine sweeper game
11:31:55 <Vorpal> or you could just make it require a certain amount of mines per line to remove that line, rather than the fullness of the line, though that way it would be easy to get stuck not being able to remove a filled in line, but that could be solved by having the mines explode nearby blocks when removed (thus "damaging" the line below and above)
11:34:33 <myname> that would work but does not sound that interesting
11:34:36 <Vorpal> myname: ah, I got an idea that might actually be good (though I personally would be stressed out instead by it): Endless scrolling minesweeper, such that you only see a moving window over a set number or rows or columns, and you have to mark as many mines as possible to get high score. I think one hit kill would be too punishing in this scenario
11:35:49 <Vorpal> say every 5 or so seconds (depending on selected difficulty) a new line appears on the left side and an old one is removed on the right
11:36:04 <Vorpal> or maybe a block of lines (5 or so)
11:36:25 <myname> take a look at concrete jungle
11:36:37 <Jafet> what about a game that is exactly like battleships except you launch airstrikes on terrorists
11:36:47 <Vorpal> myname: the one on steam?
11:36:55 <Vorpal> Jafet: that is just a re-theme
11:36:55 <myname> yeah
11:37:38 <Vorpal> myname: this looks turn based (i.e. based on number of actions you perform rather than time)?
11:37:44 <Vorpal> that probably works better
11:37:56 <myname> it is
11:38:11 <Vorpal> yeah, that seems somewhat towards that idea
11:40:42 <Vorpal> I'm not much for these types of puzzle games, I find them monotonous. I like puzzle games like Myst and Antichamber, because they are quite varied.
11:41:08 <Vorpal> I guess that is why I like programming, it is after all like a puzzle in some ways, but it is very varied
11:41:37 <myname> i totally agree
11:42:27 <myname> there is way too few mobile friendly interesting gamification of it
11:42:30 <Vorpal> I can not understand why my dad continues to engage in Sodoku puzzles for years
11:43:39 <myname> i recommend "the sequence" for android, nice little bullying automaton puzzle
11:43:41 <Vorpal> Hm, now for a completely different type of puzzle, how early do I need to leave on a Saturday to go to the opposite side of the city arriving at 13:30...
11:44:27 <Vorpal> myname: I liked Monument Vally, the puzzles weren't that advanced, but the atmosphere and (rather opaque) storytelling more than made up for it
11:44:50 <Vorpal> also the puzzles were basically MC Escher style, messing with perspective
11:45:00 <Vorpal> which I very much like
11:45:06 <myname> it was way too short, though
11:45:19 <Vorpal> yeah, and they haven't ported the second one to Android yet
11:45:38 <Vorpal> just ios, which I don't own
11:45:44 <myname> also: snakebird is a pretty hard puzzle
11:46:50 <myname> euclidea is interesting, too
11:46:52 <Vorpal> hm google suggests about 20 minutes driving, but I know that route is not the fastest in practice
11:47:12 <Vorpal> oh yeah I saw someone at work playing euclidea I think
11:47:42 <Vorpal> myname: I don't mind PC games though, I have a reasonable desktop
11:48:55 <Vorpal> myname: the latter two has in app purchases... :/
11:48:59 <Vorpal> and are free
11:49:03 <Vorpal> so I expect the worst
11:49:39 <Vorpal> anyway I need to get ready to leave, have a great day
11:53:57 <myname> euclideas IAP just allow you to skip levels
11:54:34 <myname> snakebird is kind of a shareware version, if you don't purchase the one IAP that is there, you can only play a limited amount of levels
11:54:49 <myname> demo may be the better term
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12:51:50 <rdococ> hoily!
12:57:47 <boily> rdochellochellochellochellochello...
12:58:08 <zseri> hi.
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13:03:43 <__kerbal__> hi
13:04:19 <__kerbal__> what happened to the wiki?
13:05:52 <rdococ> `moo
13:06:20 <rdococ> I can't seem to connect to the wiki.
13:06:26 <boily> __kellorbal__.
13:06:54 <rdococ> good kerbing.
13:07:19 <__kerbal__> boily: hoillo
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13:07:48 <__kerbal__> rdococ: grdococtings
13:09:05 <rdococ> I guess it'd make sense for versors (unit quaternions) to be stored in memory with only three values (x, y, z).
13:13:25 <boily> it makes sense for display purposes to reduce a quaternion to three dimensions, but their whole purpose in 3D graphics is to expediently compute rotations.
13:14:01 <boily> and for that we need all four values to be present and close by, so it's more efficient to keep everything in memory.
13:14:16 <rdococ> k
13:14:32 <rdococ> what happens if they're not unit?
13:14:41 <boily> well, w.
13:21:28 <rdococ> say I rotated a cube to Q(0.5, 0, 0, 0). would it appear smaller?
13:22:43 <boily> as far as my addled coffeeless brain can figure it, yes.
13:22:58 <rdococ> Wanna try some Klatchian Coffee?
13:24:21 <boily> I'm having sourj at the moment. it tastes good.
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13:27:31 <rdococ> But Klatchian Coffee gives you superspeed!
13:27:37 <boily> `relcome zseri
13:27:57 <zseri> hi
13:27:57 <rdococ> the wiki and the bot are down
13:28:08 <boily> 'tis the end of times.
13:28:09 <zseri> I already know.
13:28:31 <boily> the horror.
13:28:34 <boily> the agony.
13:29:07 <rdococ> ice scream.
13:31:07 <boily> the bowl of cereals.
13:31:43 <__kerbal__> What is the ICFP contest?
13:35:49 <__kerbal__> wait, it's this: https://icfpcontest2017.github.io
13:40:53 <__kerbal__> Here's the wiki backup from the last outage: http://esolangs.zem.fi
13:41:06 <__kerbal__> It doesn't work very well, though
13:42:18 <__kerbal__> you have to manually fiddle with the URLs, and the info it provides is incredibly outdated
13:42:28 <boily> @metar CYUL
13:42:28 <lambdabot> CYUL 051236Z 20010KT 2 1/2SM SHRA BR FEW012 OVC035 19/17 A2978 RMK CF1SC7 VIS W 12 SLP087 DENSITY ALT 900FT
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14:01:24 <zseri> The search forwards to esolangs.org and thus doesn't work now.
14:01:39 <zseri> (on the backup page)
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14:06:19 <rdococ> I'd like to clarify: is the name of the wiki "Esolang", or is it "Esolangs"?
14:06:46 <zseri> I think it's named "Esolang"
14:06:53 <__kerbal__> The main page suggests "Esolang"
14:07:37 <zseri> Yes.
14:07:52 <rdococ> But the URL is esolangs.org/, right?
14:08:29 * __kerbal__ 's mind was blown
14:08:46 <rdococ> I'm...not cleaning that up.
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14:28:33 <Vorpal> <rdococ> But Klatchian Coffee gives you superspeed! <-- makes you knurd
14:29:51 <ATMunn> website seems to be down :\
14:33:22 <zseri> Yes
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15:48:39 <ATMunn> \o/ finished my befunge-93 fizzbuzz program
15:48:49 <ATMunn> it's probably super inefficient but i dont care :p
15:52:25 <zseri> is esolangs.zem.fi a clone of esolangs.org?
15:57:18 <zseri> the esolangs.zem.fi certificate doesn't match the domain name.
16:25:03 <rdococ> is anyone even trying to get the wiki/bot back up?
16:25:37 <zseri> I don't know.
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16:59:17 <fizzie> Vorpal: Usually UK, but I'm visiting Mountain View this week.
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17:07:04 <Vorpal> fizzie: ah
17:07:08 <Vorpal> fizzie: fixing the wiki?
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17:18:17 <fizzie> Vorpal: Can't do terribly much about it, other than maybe ping Gregor. It's not answering SSH.
17:18:34 <fizzie> I could point at the backup copy I have, I guess.
17:18:45 <fizzie> Usually I've done that once it's been down for more than a day though.
17:19:48 <fizzie> Funny, though -- yesterday evening when I got the alert, I was getting a timeout. Now it actually does TCP connect to port 22, but then immediately gets closed by the remote side.
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17:22:28 <fizzie> And on port 80 it accepts a connection and reads any data, but doesn't send back any response. That's so odd.
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17:32:27 <zseri> hi
17:35:39 <rdococ> yay
17:39:44 <ATMunn> fungot: poke
17:39:44 <fungot> ATMunn: and i mean)) i can't really say that that's there policy but different places i've worked they've brought
17:41:31 <fizzie> fungot: Brought what?
17:41:32 <fungot> fizzie: no but but people were taking it pretty easy i can't imagine how writers and researchers fnord before there used to be that it was
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18:02:54 <quintopia> fizziello
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18:33:50 <Vorpal> <fizzie> And on port 80 it accepts a connection and reads any data, but doesn't send back any response. That's so odd. <-- very
18:33:52 <Vorpal> is it a VPS?
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20:07:16 <zseri> hi
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20:51:00 <rdococ> He wasn't a fungi, he was a fungot.
20:51:00 <fungot> rdococ: ( ( yeah i can i can't even imagine um we my parents had to say about airport security noise mhm))
20:51:07 <rdococ> ...
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21:15:08 <Warrigal_> Let's see how good the layered unit net is at making METARs.
21:15:20 <Warrigal_> LOWI 021920Z VRB03KT 090V19KT CRICTE40 CLM BKN009/02///////// \1936 \ 9999 122353370 1003 5400 5121 1435 3132 2325 3253 5f46
21:15:42 <Warrigal_> I'm pretty sure that stopped making sense right around those slashes.
21:16:46 <Warrigal_> Looks like it gave two wind things instead of one. CRICTE and CLM don't mean anything.
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21:17:10 <Warrigal_> ENVA 012455Z 02005KT 10SM FEW014 FEW048 SCT064CC2 31/06 Q1013 TEMPO SMP137 TF 40010 FROL
21:25:07 <Warrigal_> The time there is 24:55 UTC, which is impossible. As far as I can tell, CC2, SMP, 40010, and FROL don't seem to mean anything.
21:25:14 <Sgeo_> Higher density of mines definitely makes Minesweeper harder
21:25:23 <Sgeo_> I actually have to think instead of relying on 1-corners
21:25:32 <Warrigal_> I found a page that says that TF means tornado.
21:27:14 <Jafet> at least for tatham's mines, the critical density seems to be around 40%
21:27:29 <Cale> https://tortue.itch.io/triangulation
21:27:34 <rdococ> 99 mines out of 100 squares is either 99% instant loss, or 100% instant win, depending on whether the implementation is a good one or a bad one
21:27:40 <Cale> (Interesting take on minesweeper)
21:27:52 <Jafet> this is interesting because from what I can tell, it just generates the minefields at random
21:29:55 <Jafet> then again, 3-sat also has a critical density
21:30:49 <rdococ> oh
21:30:50 <rdococ> cool
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21:39:12 <Phantom_Hoover> is the wiki down?
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21:46:58 -!- Jafet has set topic: http://esolangs.org/ will be back shortly after this bimetal prismack | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | ICFP contest ends on 2017-08-07.
22:02:16 <zseri> Yes, the wiki is down.
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23:28:08 <rdococ> Are there any esolangs in which the break command accepts an integer as the number of loops to break out of?
23:28:30 <rdococ> s/esolangs/normal langs/, because honestly it'd be useful to me
23:28:40 <rdococ> e.g. while true { while true { break; } }; vs e.g. while true { while true { break 2; } };
23:29:33 <Sgeo_> Try a language that uses delimited continuations, maybe you could make your own
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23:44:36 <rdococ> excuse me, I have to pick up bits of my brain again. the last time this happened, I was introduced to storing binary tree paths as numbers.
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