< 1502668802 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in < 1502668826 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502671372 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1502671447 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1502671876 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502671934 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" anyway, I thought that newbiefuck would be the variant where ] goes back to the nearest [" => this yes. and we've been calling the one where [] is a do-while loop "dofuck" informally, when I was thinking about why it's Turing-complete < 1502672350 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" [...] "CON -0" results in positive zero by mistake" => well, technically vol 1 forgets to say what the unary minus does when it introduces the assembler (it defines precisely what the binary operators do) so that's not really a bug < 1502672430 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own assembler is not quite the same as MIXAL anyways though < 1502672489 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1502672494 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "and equal sign expressions will make multiple copies of the same expression instead of just one" => they have to make multiple copies. the book doesn't say they're unified, and they shouldn't be, since the program might write them. < 1502672565 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I suppose you are correct about that, although I intended that you would explicitly use CON if you wanted to write them; otherwise how to know the address when you read them instead? < 1502672623 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use a CON line if you want to reference them twice, sure < 1502672643 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you want to place them somewhere other than right before the END location < 1502672823 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" How to compute the position of the International Space Station?" => that's hard because it has powered thrusters actively changing its orbit all the time, and is also in thin atmosphere so it's getting breaked < 1502672825 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure why a program would want to write them anyways < 1502672918 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you are only referencing it once, why will you write them? I don't see why a program should ever write to them whether they are unified or not. < 1502672987 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the Deadfish implementation in MIX? (If you have the book, and if you want to do, you can write in actual MIXAL perhaps, because the code I posted is my own assembler instead) < 1502673375 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502674031 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502675938 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502676267 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502676835 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://heavens-above.com/orbit.aspx?satid=25544 (linked from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station ) shows the current position of the ISS < 1502676995 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1502678857 0 :wob_jonas!b03f181c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.28 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1502679351 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-48.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1502679633 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 QUIT :Quit: See ya! o/ < 1502679770 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that, but how to predict it? < 1502679838 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1502679933 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like tensors? < 1502680271 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so, kind of < 1502680312 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like monoidal categories? < 1502680429 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same, I think, yes it can have some uses < 1502682765 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502684985 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1502686222 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1502687013 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some webpages have a stylesheet named "antiClickJack" which hides everything. What is that? < 1502687659 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can read about clickjacking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickjacking < 1502687705 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that you load someone's web page or other UI that responds to certain clicks in certain ways. < 1502687724 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you put an overlay on top of it that makes it look like the click would do something else in your own UI. < 1502687784 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502687926 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502688450 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there are better ways to avoid such thing, such as by ignoring any CSS rules that affect an iframe other than positioning rules, so alpha transparency cannot be set, the border style cannot be altered, etc; and furthermore, if anything overlays an iframe, it makes that part of the iframe effectively disappear (so it can't be seen through alpha transparency) and cannot receive events. The iframe cannot receive keyboard events either un < 1502688488 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A user setting to disable custom cursors may also be helpful. < 1502688495 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as other things I did not mention. < 1502688579 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as including the user settings which can affect what can load what. < 1502689021 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one way to avoid Facebook "like" jacking is if you do not have a Facebook account, I suppose; or does it still do even in that case? < 1502690013 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ALT+ENTER in Firefox to open entered address in a new tab is especially useful when "relative location bar" is in use; without that extension, this ALT+ENTER is less useful. < 1502691708 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1502692166 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1502692974 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502693633 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502694086 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1502696266 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502696345 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502696866 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502697053 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1502698098 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502698132 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502698381 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1502703579 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1502705003 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1502705985 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:8194:e9cd:5fc:81ac JOIN :#esoteric < 1502706253 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:8194:e9cd:5fc:81ac QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1502707983 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1502709225 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1502710451 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502711385 0 :Antoxyde!~Antoxyde@AAnnecy-654-1-74-48.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1502711441 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ipycglhyqcgkhsqr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1502713057 0 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ppufkvsawbddugnx JOIN :#esoteric < 1502713230 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1502713235 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:mdude//MDude is just a dude, with an M's courage. \ misle//misle v. tr. "I was misled about morphology." \ method//A method is a tweaked out mothod. \ guillible//A guillible person is someone who can be fooled with a Scheme script. \ northumberland//Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RI < 1502713239 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1502713240 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:SE! < 1502713857 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: NETWORK CHICKEN < 1502716180 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:f545:2381:1342:e703 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502716445 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:f545:2381:1342:e703 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1502717559 0 :zseri!5e86c6a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.198.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502719231 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502721735 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1502721791 0 :zseri!5e86c6a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.198.167 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1502722567 0 :ATMunn!~ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502722572 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1502722600 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1502722960 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1502724239 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502724277 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow! amazon.com is great! I've never used it before < 1502724320 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:f545:2381:1342:e703 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502724367 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite how US-centric it is, it actually allows me to choose to pay from credit card in USD; as opposed to ebay who insists on charging everything in HUF with their high currency conversion rates, just because I live in Hungary. < 1502724397 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, paypal insists on that. < 1502724456 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1502724538 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the other amazons (amazon.co.uk, amazon.de etc) do this properly too? < 1502724586 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:f545:2381:1342:e703 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1502724696 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also warn you not to put non-ascii characters in your shipping address in advance, which I think is nicer than silently printing garbage on the envelope. < 1502725623 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1502726785 0 :wob_jonas!b03f190e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.14 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1502727998 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1502728025 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1502729546 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52744&oldid=30287 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+196) 10/* May I take this name for an esolang? */ new section < 1502729589 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Mindscrew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52745&oldid=52744 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+84) 10 < 1502729609 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52746&oldid=52745 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-2) 10accidentally invoked \n- code syntax < 1502729932 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52747&oldid=52746 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+304) 10meh, might as well do it anyway < 1502730959 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1502730988 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1091 < 1502730989 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1091: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1502732442 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1502732474 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:f545:2381:1342:e703 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502732753 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:4000:46b5:f545:2381:1342:e703 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1502732846 0 :zseri!5e86c6a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.198.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1502733741 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1502734305 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1502734610 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1502734890 0 :moonythedwarf!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1502734901 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1502735942 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1502736798 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1502737740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1502737967 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the moment, Mindscrew is a fast redirect to Brainfuck. I was wondering if I could use the name for my own esolang, which would add first-class functions and stuff. < 1502738068 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh - I'll publish the article anyway, and see what people think. It's an easy move and revert if it doesn't work out for some reason. < 1502738197 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52748&oldid=30285 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+6326) 10Mindscrew is a high-level extension of Brainfuck - at the moment, it adds first-class subroutines, first-class continuations, and non-first-class coroutines (though you could probably simulate them with subroutines and continuations). < 1502738230 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52749&oldid=52748 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1) 10Fixed a minor formatting bug in the table header. < 1502738435 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1502738438 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52750&oldid=52749 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-21) 10Fixed a minor issue in the examples. < 1502738521 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52751&oldid=52750 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1) 10Fixed /another/ minor issue. < 1502738716 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52752&oldid=52737 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+110) 10/* My hopefully better esoteric languages (12017 HE - ∞+10000 HE) */ < 1502738735 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52753&oldid=52752 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+3) 10 < 1502738910 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1502738938 0 :* Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d: PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1502739184 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1502739267 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52754&oldid=52753 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1009) 10 < 1502739458 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hi Taneb and imode. < 1502739488 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52755&oldid=45312 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+15) 10Added Mindscrew to the "Subroutines, functions, macros" entry. < 1502739525 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Neural Net program is pretty much ready for me to try to actually build a neural net < 1502739576 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build a neural net that builds neural nets. < 1502739601 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like effort < 1502739613 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you using actual neurons? < 1502739623 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am afraid not < 1502739636 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo then why call it a "neural net" twh < 1502739639 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the budget. < 1502739660 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, they try to simulate actual neurons < 1502739667 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do? < 1502739673 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh. < 1502739678 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1502739696 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly < 1502739704 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all about that activation function booiiii. < 1502739730 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My claim is that there's no resemblance. < 1502739750 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like to back up that claim with evidence? < 1502739774 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :..for an extra .99c? < 1502739791 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know what Taneb is making yet. < 1502739810 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only a weak claim right now. < 1502739812 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, a terrible imitation is still an imitation < 1502739835 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then anything can be called a neuron. < 1502739836 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52756&oldid=52751 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+229) 10 < 1502739848 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about what Taneb is making, you're claiming neural nets show no resemblance to actual nets of actual neurons. < 1502739862 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see some evidence. < 1502739871 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean "artificial neural networks"? < 1502739878 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: My own opinion at least is that that redirect is worthless, so it should be OK to use the name by yourself. If it is found that it isn't so worthless and that you want it anyways, then to add the "see also"/"maybe you meant" kind of stuff at the top < 1502739882 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. that's a good search term. < 1502739889 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I see no resemblance. How's that? < 1502739896 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a bad name. < 1502739902 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know enough about brains to comment < 1502739908 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can you give us some reasons.. why? < 1502739919 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've already added that to it. < 1502739925 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's up to the people using ridiculous names like "neural" to give evidence. < 1502739940 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's up to you to say why you don't like it. :P < 1502739951 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :claims typically require justification. < 1502739962 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how minimal that might be. < 1502739964 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of removing the continuations and coroutines, though, because they just feel like they're unnecessary bunk in a brainfuck derivative. < 1502739973 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like it because I see no resemblance. < 1502739981 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you see no resemblance because you don't like it? < 1502739983 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To borrow a name and make an analogy like that, you need evidence. < 1502739989 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it doesn't matter whether they are similar to biological neural nets or not because it's an established name now < 1502739991 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you even know what they are? < 1502739998 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What what are? < 1502740004 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANNs. do you kno whow they work < 1502740019 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. < 1502740024 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know how they work. have you read why they're called that? < 1502740033 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They represent data as a vector in R^n < 1502740041 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you at least done the required skimming as to why the model was labeled that? :P < 1502740051 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They repeatedly apply linear maps followed by some nonlinear transformation. < 1502740058 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes they do other things. < 1502740085 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe read some more on the topic. there's a clear resemblance, albeit one that's being seen from a moving car. < 1502740086 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I think it's the training of them that's the interesting bit < 1502740087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've done some skimming. A long time ago there was slightly more resemblance, for example when people used perceptrons with discrete output. < 1502740106 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :perceptrons didn't change, our activation functions became smoother, much like actual neurons < 1502740123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: There's certainly no evidence that I know of that real neurons are "trained" using backpropagation or gradient descent, which are the popular tactics for ANNs. < 1502740140 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are actual neurons smooth? < 1502740148 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, their activations are. < 1502740163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say neuron firing is not discrete? < 1502740171 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially. < 1502740173 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I still think backpropogation is interesting even if it isn't accurate to biology < 1502740181 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I agree. < 1502740207 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I totally agree with you that ANNs are as good a model for real neurons as legos are for large-scale skyscraper construction, there's some resemblance. < 1502740207 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think as people make more progress with ANNs they become further and further from biology, because the biological inspiration was never very important in the first place. < 1502740239 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days it's pretty twisted. there's a relevant xkcd for this. < 1502740255 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xkcd.com/1838/ < 1502740305 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have had linear algebra for a long time. < 1502740318 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52757&oldid=52756 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-222) 10Added a return instruction, and improved the example formatting. < 1502740332 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about as long as calculus, in fact! < 1502740340 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :#funfact < 1502740395 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52758&oldid=52757 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+89) 10/* Examples */ Fixed the if conditional example. < 1502740864 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, my own article screws my mind. < 1502741796 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52759&oldid=52758 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+105) 10 < 1502742566 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Works in progress14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52760&oldid=51496 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+13) 10 < 1502742797 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52761&oldid=52759 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1032) 10Removed continuations. < 1502743569 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52762&oldid=52761 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+946) 10Added SWAP register and modified + and - instructions for moving subroutines around in the cell tape. < 1502743784 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52763&oldid=52762 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+54) 10Added categories: "Brainfuck derivatives", and "2017". < 1502743828 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1502743899 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52764&oldid=52754 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+127) 10 < 1502743966 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :It strikes me as odd that out of all of my esolangs, I (as of now) rate my BF derivative the highest. Then again, I could just be that bad. (Then again, "Rule" is pretty cool, and so is "HI9+".) < 1502744208 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502744255 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellaugur. < 1502744416 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1502744983 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52765&oldid=52763 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+75) 10Added more categories. < 1502745181 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mindscrew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52766&oldid=52765 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+6) 10Added some bold to the beginning. < 1502745772 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1502746386 0 :zseri!5e86c6a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.134.198.167 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1502746664 0 :moonythedwarf!?@? NICK :moony_{vil} < 1502747036 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerDadJokes/comments/6tmqm3/my_app_is_crashing_when_the_user_has_a_bad_cell m( < 1502748241 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1502748354 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1502748461 0 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1502748863 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1502749075 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-083-030.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1502749596 0 :moony_{vil}!?@? NICK :moony < 1502749668 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1502749933 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1502750342 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daichi_Fukushima < 1502750346 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor guy < 1502750397 0 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1502750400 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1502750465 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52767&oldid=52704 5* 03Kwikrick 5* (+15) 10 < 1502750944 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502751367 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1502751489 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502751999 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98627.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1502752278 0 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1502753602 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1502753777 0 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-225-175.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1502753783 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52768&oldid=52742 5* 03LyricLy 5* (-774) 10 < 1502753796 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze72an2h4vq1xn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1502754106 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52769&oldid=52768 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+181) 10 < 1502754466 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Arrows14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52770&oldid=52743 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+4) 10/* External links */ < 1502754479 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Arrows14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52771&oldid=52770 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+2) 10/* File type */ < 1502754571 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: COVERAGE CHICKEN < 1502754911 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Arrows14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52772&oldid=52771 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (-12) 10