←2017-08-17 2017-08-18 2017-08-19→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:04:29 <Hoolootwo> yes I like this
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01:07:43 <zzo38> Has this house been moved to WGL84 yet? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Prime_meridian.jpg
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01:14:46 <oerjan> gah tinnitus
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02:04:41 <Sgeo_> https://github.com/matslina/awib
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03:02:06 <zzo38> Now I have implemented some map projections: Eckert II, Winkel tripel, Kavrayskiy VII, Aitoff, Equirectangular, Gall-Peters, Hammer, Lambert cylindrical equal area, Mercator, Sinusoidal, Van der Grinten, Polar azimuthal equidistant, Mollweide
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03:16:22 <wob_jonas> I started to upload the book I mentioned to under https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Illustrations_to_J%C3%A1nos_Arany%27s_ballads_by_Mih%C3%A1ly_Zichy
03:17:09 <wob_jonas> I will upload the rest in a few days, I already have all the prepared cropped images on my hard drive
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03:22:17 <zzo38> Was it you who mentioned the base 256 MIX with a "NUME" instruction? Then describe its working
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03:27:28 <wob_jonas> zzo38: First I'd have to describe what the CHAR instruction does. If the magnitude of rA is less than 10**10, then it puts the decimal digits as characters into the magnitude of rAX as normal.
03:30:08 <wob_jonas> If the magnitude is bigger than that, then it encodes the magnitude in some unambiguous way where the first character is always a letter from A to I inclusive or S to Z inclusive and the other nine characters are always letters from A to Z or digits from 0 to 9, sets the overflow flag.
03:30:09 <zzo38> I added a section "MIX256" into the "MIX (Knuth)" article in esolang wiki, so you can write the descriptions in there.
03:30:34 <wob_jonas> The exact mapping would have to be defined in the spec.
03:33:28 <wob_jonas> In fact, it may be the best if in the extended CHAR output, the first character is always S to Z inclusive. (Then you can punch negatives by subtracting 20 from that character.)
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03:36:33 <wob_jonas> The NUME instruction would then check what byte 2 in rA is. If it's a number or a number with overbar or a space, then it works then same way as NUM. If it's a letter, then it adds 20 to that character if it's between B to I inclusive, mapping those to S to Z inclusive, and maps any spaces in the following characters to zeros, then it undoes the tr
03:36:33 <wob_jonas> ansformation of CHAR. If the characters don't form a possible output from CHAR, then it sets the magnitude of rA to an undefined value.
03:36:55 <wob_jonas> In any case, NUME doesn't affect rX, the sign of rA, or the overflow toggle.
03:38:32 <wob_jonas> Also, the loader format and loader program has to be adjusted so that when it loads a word from its char representation, it uses the NUME instruction, and also makes sure to set the sign to negative if the first character is B to Z.
03:40:09 <wob_jonas> The NUME instruction can also be supported on machines where the byte range is 100 or 64, but in that case it can do exactly the same as NUM. This way programs written in assembly can be portable.
03:41:51 <wob_jonas> The assembler has to be adjusted too so it can emit the loader format.
03:42:32 <wob_jonas> But the whole thing is designed so you need minimal changes in the programs.
03:42:54 <zzo38> I could fix my assembler to treat NUME the same as NUM, if that can help anyone, I suppose (it doesn't support MIX256 anyways though, and only MIX; but it could be supported to support MIX256 too perhaps if anyone will want to do that)
03:43:28 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't think that's a good idea. Didn't you say your assembler supports an output format that is byte size independent?
03:43:45 <wob_jonas> Making NUME a synonym of NUM in that case would break programs if you load the byte size independent assembled program.
03:44:32 <zzo38> Yes you are right actually
03:44:34 <wob_jonas> If the assembler knows that the byte size is at most 100, then yes, then it could assemble NUME as NUM.
03:45:03 <wob_jonas> And if the byte size is more than 100, then it must not do that, because the two instructions definitely can't be equivalent, so they can't have the same representation.
03:45:06 <zzo38> Although currently it does support only up to 100. I have fixed it to support 64 too now, so now it can output a deck for 64, 100, or independent.
03:45:35 <zzo38> But I agree with you if it is going to support MIX256 in independent mode, then NUME can't be used obviously.
03:46:42 <wob_jonas> It could be used, you'd just get a program that only works on a computer that supports the NUME instruction. That's no problem, a base 64 or base 100 machine can support that too. It's like when you put any other extended instruction to your program.
03:47:15 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose that is another possibility too
03:50:50 <wob_jonas> technically you could probably also write a loader that checks for the byte size of the machine and uses NUME only if the byte size is large, but it's not really worth
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03:53:07 <zzo38> That would be more complicated to implement
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04:10:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MIX (Knuth)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52862&oldid=52815 * Zzo38 * (+693) MIX256
04:20:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:2014]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52863 * Zzo38 * (+571) I think the implementation of 2014 based on that of 2017 is not quite right
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04:23:14 <quintopia> hello i'm back from the k-line, did i miss much
04:23:48 <zzo38> It depend what you wanted to look at I suppose; you could try to read the logs.
04:24:47 <quintopia> did you say something i needed to see zoo38
04:24:52 <quintopia> spoo
04:24:57 <quintopia> zzo38
04:26:11 <zzo38> I wrote nothing addressed to you, but you can still try to read it to see if any of it interests you; maybe it does or maybe not.
04:28:26 <quintopia> looks like what i missed was actual on-topic discussion
04:28:44 <quintopia> the one random day that esolangs come up as a topic and i'm gone :P
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04:33:10 <zzo38> Well, if you have a reply you can write it now, then.
04:35:29 <quintopia> ais523: we could make BF harder by just having it decrement the nth cell once before executing the nth instruction (wrapping back to the first nonzero cell if all of the following cells are zero)
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07:57:48 <rdococ> hi
07:58:40 <rdococ> concept: BF where every instruction is increased by a randomized but predictable amount modulo 95 per instruction
07:59:35 <rdococ> ...and then it is salted and hashed, the same thing happens again, ad infinitum until you get bored and program in Malbolge
08:01:22 <imode> how about an esolang that helps me not suck at frontend dev.
08:02:02 <Taneb> imode, Elm's pretty esoteric
08:02:46 <imode> hah.
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15:03:17 <zseri> hi
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15:58:32 <quintopia> hi
16:00:32 <rdococ> hi
16:00:53 <myname> hi
16:01:19 <quintopia> gj zseri you started a trend
16:01:32 <zseri> which one?
16:01:49 <myname> which one?
16:01:51 <zseri> saying 'hi'?
16:01:56 <myname> damn
16:03:07 <quintopia> damn
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16:08:58 <rdococ> Damn, I love how easily I could transition from my faulty UTF8 library to Lua 5.3's UTF8 library.
16:09:06 <rdococ> Didn't have to change a single bit of code!
16:09:24 <rdococ> I'm still mad how £ isn't in pure ASCII, though.
16:09:37 <wob_jonas> rdococ: just use # instead hth
16:09:49 <rdococ> Heh, the "pound sign."
16:10:04 <wob_jonas> or GBP
16:10:04 <rdococ> wob_jonas: my WIP mindscrew interpreter now supports UTF-8 encoding anyway
16:10:20 <rdococ> it handles them as single characters using their codepoints
16:10:46 <rdococ> the downside being is that it now requires Lua 5.3 to run
16:11:18 <wob_jonas> isn't that a bad idea? how will you input or output binary files or any files that are not utf-8 encoded then?
16:15:16 <zzo38> What what I read in article about mindscrew, I am not sure why it should support UTF-8
16:15:31 <zzo38> And it seem better not to
16:26:04 <rdococ> do you think?
16:26:31 <rdococ> meh, I'm gonna keep it in as an option anyway
16:26:36 <rdococ> do you think it should default to on or off?
16:27:04 <wob_jonas> Off [with her head!]
16:27:11 <rdococ> heh
16:27:27 <zzo38> Off, I should think
16:28:35 <rdococ> It also has a customizable EOF (the default being no change).
16:28:44 <zzo38> OK
16:28:47 <rdococ> I had the idea of being able to set flags via custom instructions, too.
16:30:01 <zzo38> Yes, that could also help (although another way can be just having separate instructions for dealing with UTF-8 input and output, than the normal 8-bit I/O instructions)
16:30:55 <rdococ> Ooooooooooh.
16:31:12 <rdococ> ,. `'
16:31:20 <rdococ> ` for UTF8 input, ' for UTF8 output
16:31:22 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
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16:34:04 <rdococ> Actually, `' would probably be better used for inputting and outputting entire lines of text (it could also be used to interpret UTF8 that way).
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16:36:59 <rdococ> How should it act when calling a non-existent procedure?
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16:40:43 <zzo38> Maybe it should do nothing in that case
16:41:59 <rdococ> How about if a user attempts to input more than one character?
16:43:23 <zzo38> Reads the first one, and then afterward it can read the second one, and so on, I suppose?
16:43:54 <rdococ> Oooh.
16:45:53 <rdococ> I think I might remove UTF support altogether then.
16:46:51 <rdococ> How about attempting to output a negative value?
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16:47:26 <zzo38> Only use the low 8-bits, I should think
16:47:40 <zzo38> (So that -1 becomes 255, -2 becomes 254, etc)
16:48:06 <quintopia> do nothing for non-existent procedure? i've gotten to the age where I would a appreciate a useful error message for something like that
16:48:23 <rdococ> This is why we have flags. :P
16:48:47 <rdococ> (There's still the issue of which one should be default, though.)
16:48:53 <quintopia> flags: the poor man's exception
16:49:56 <rdococ> If anything, I might add a breakpoint system with !.
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16:51:06 <quintopia> wat. breakpoints built into the language? absurd!
16:51:51 <quintopia> although i guess "exit immediately and dump state" is not a terrible instruction to have in a feature-rich esolang
16:53:58 <rdococ> yeah, that's what I meant :P
16:54:29 <rdococ> anyway, my cat program works wonders with the new iostack system (zzo38's idea of reading the first one, then afterwards reading the second one).
16:54:53 <quintopia> for comparison, ! was the exit instruction for Spiral, but i had breakpoints as a separate feature of the IDE I wrote for it.
16:55:23 <quintopia> "iostack"? i thought he was just describing the typical input buffer...
16:55:49 <rdococ> yeah, I meant something more like "ioqueue"
16:55:57 <rdococ> but yes, it's an input buffer
16:56:25 <quintopia> lol
16:56:46 <rdococ> should it be part of the esolang's spec itself, I wonder?
16:56:49 <rdococ> it'd be pretty cool.
16:57:19 <quintopia> if you like, but it's a common enough way of handling input that you needn't go into great detail about it
16:58:02 <rdococ> I'll just add one line for it in the structure section.
16:58:15 <rdococ> or maybe in implementation details.
17:00:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mindscrew]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52864&oldid=52849 * Rdococ * (+200)
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17:07:18 <quintopia> yeah i don't quite understand why your example programs contain ] if it's a no-op
17:07:23 <quintopia> oh wait
17:07:34 <quintopia> nvm...you can still jump to it, just not from it
17:09:52 <rdococ> yeah.
17:10:38 <rdococ> at the moment, my interpreter is lazy - it only detects mismatched brackets if it tries to jump to a non-existent matching ]
17:11:30 <rdococ> which means you can have more ] than necessary and nothing bad will happen
17:12:41 <quintopia> and more [ than necessary as long as they never get run or if run never cause a jump
17:20:46 <rdococ> yes
17:20:52 <rdococ> so +[[[[[ works
17:20:57 <rdococ> waot
17:21:06 <rdococ> yeah
17:25:44 <rdococ> oh, nice:
17:25:46 <rdococ> "Zbz"!Uijt!jt!b!wfstjpo!pg!dbu!xijdi!jodsfnfout!fbdi!dibsbdufs!cz!pof/"
17:26:04 <rdococ> I created a version of cat that increments each char by one.
17:27:35 <rdococ> I might create b`s (the inverse of the aforementioned "dbu") to decrement them.
17:32:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ObCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52865 * StellatedHexahedron * (+1396) proposed completeness proof
17:36:45 <rdococ> proposed: Encrypted ObCode. The interpreter would expect binary - it would hash the binary with SHA-8192, de-binarize it, and then interpret the hash.
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17:56:57 <\oren\> hahahahahahahhaa
17:57:10 <\oren\> bannon fired lol
17:57:11 <rdococ> Concept: If a set of integers can be thought of as a map from an integer to an existence value (boolean), and one integer can be thought of as a map from a binary place value (integer) to a bit (boolean), then an integer can be stored as a set...a recursive set that contains itself if the binary place value corresponding to its own value is 1.
17:57:19 <rdococ> e.g. the integer 1 contains itself.
17:57:39 <rdococ> (well, maybe not)...
17:58:16 <rdococ> Okay, so the integer 2 is 2^1, yes? That means that the integer 2 contains the integer 1, which contains 0, the empty set.
17:58:20 <rdococ> But 3 contains both 2 and 1.
17:58:57 <rdococ> 4 contains, er, ...wait.
17:59:02 <rdococ> 3 contains 1 and 0.
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17:59:13 <rdococ> hi \oren\ and impomatic.
17:59:49 <impomatic> Hi rdococ
18:01:23 <rdococ> Concept: storing an arbitrary integer in the instruction pointer. the interpreter would read the instruction at ip % #instructions (where #instructions is the number of instructions), so you could perform integer arithmetic on the ip to get and set the value.
18:01:47 <rdococ> e.g. say the program has 23 instructions. to add 1 to the value, you'd type "ip = ip + 23", since the program wraps around.
18:03:36 <impomatic> A bit like a relative jump?
18:03:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bulan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52866&oldid=46720 * Rdococ * (-925) ...er...I'm going to secretly delete this terrible Lua derivative of mine...
18:04:14 <rdococ> Yeah, but the jump ends up with the same instruction modulo the number of instructions.
18:05:15 <rdococ> You'd be able to store arbitrary values in the ip without messing up the program's control flow, basically.
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18:09:48 <int-e> @bot
18:09:48 <lambdabot> :)
18:17:41 <\oren\> http://www.avclub.com/article/steve-bannon-leaving-white-house-spend-more-time-s-259642
18:20:09 <rdococ> Damn, I'm bored.
18:28:34 <int-e> `? rdococ
18:28:35 <HackEgo> rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words.
18:29:01 <int-e> rdococ: have you heard of the boring company?
18:31:28 * impomatic is looking for info about Core War in the 1960s and 1970s.
18:32:26 <impomatic> Google didn't turn up anything apart from the few articles I already had :-(
18:33:17 <rdococ> int-e: sounds like me
18:33:51 <int-e> @google "the boring company"
18:33:53 <lambdabot> https://www.boringcompany.com/
18:35:11 <int-e> note also that this gives the phrase "being bored to death" a whole new meaning.
18:35:55 <rdococ> Hah.
18:36:09 <rdococ> I really wish I could stumble upon a new concept right about now.
18:38:36 <int-e> https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-brand-new-concept <-- not a very original name if you ask me
18:39:38 <rdococ> Hey, what would happen if I threw C and first-class continuations into a blender?
18:41:08 <Phantom_Hoover> longjmp
18:41:58 <rdococ> Oh, C already has been blended with first-class continuations. :c
18:42:24 <Phantom_Hoover> well it'd be longjmp that copied the entire stack or something
18:43:06 <rdococ> I was thinking of creating a language that secretly worked in CPS, but didn't look like it did, to "pretend" there's a call stack to reify.
18:47:22 <rdococ> The only thing like a stack there would be is the scope, and that might not even be necessary.
18:56:49 <Lymia> !zjoust kiseki <
18:56:49 <zemhill> Lymia.kiseki: points -45.00, score 0.00, rank 46/47 (-45)
18:58:09 <rdococ> SMETANA To Infinity! joust?
19:00:22 <Lymia> !ztest nyuroki2 https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/67c57bb9732ff6493347dd022bae6c5ad1912209.bf
19:00:26 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 16.48, score 42.77, rank 2/47
19:01:48 <rdococ> O_o
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19:09:22 <Lymia> !ztest nyuroki2 https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/7e0b728b0228ee0e4ac4f2dfc98b2d04ad5f7d17.bf
19:09:25 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 15.29, score 40.77, rank 2/47
19:10:06 <Lymia> !ztest nyuroki2 https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/0df6ec653b90d70647abe27dc773925678971df9.bf
19:10:07 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 14.57, score 39.26, rank 3/47
19:12:05 <Lymia> !ztest nyuroki2 https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/3433ff3fd457ca72fc0177810cf4750b578f012c.bf
19:12:09 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 10.95, score 31.48, rank 7/47
19:18:13 <Phantom_Hoover> hey Lymia
19:18:21 <Phantom_Hoover> how did all that gpl drama with bukkit shake out in the end
19:18:48 <Lymia> IDK. I wasn't around to see it. :D
19:19:09 <Phantom_Hoover> shame, that was top-grade drama
19:20:16 <Phantom_Hoover> i like how mojang never did implement the modding api
19:23:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Lazy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52867&oldid=34320 * HereToAnnoy * (+210)
19:23:29 <imode> that would take effort.
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19:35:19 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 18.33, score 46.89, rank 1/47
19:36:09 <Lymia> !zjoust nyuroki <
19:36:09 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki: points -45.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-44)
19:36:26 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 19.00, score 48.23, rank 2/47 (--)
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19:42:46 <rdococ> I had the idea of a language where you could access and modify the call stack.
19:42:54 <imode> forth.
19:42:59 <imode> literally forth.
19:44:22 <rdococ> damn it...
19:45:07 <rdococ> okay, what about this:
19:45:10 <imode> that shouldn't stop you from implementing one though.
19:45:13 <rdococ> You know how Lua has a C API?
19:45:13 <imode> they are fun.
19:45:19 <imode> uh-huh.
19:45:25 <rdococ> How about: an esolang with an itself API.
19:45:34 <imode> are you just grasping at straws.
19:45:41 <rdococ> Kinda.
19:45:56 <imode> go do useful work for a while, weird shit pops up while you do it.
19:46:29 <rdococ> I don't have useful work to do.
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19:47:06 <rdococ> I can barely implement a language; one-character esolangs like mindscrew are a special case.
19:47:23 <imode> http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=1462716999241&mkt=de-DE&setlang=en-US&w=xEsMxqoa0KJSwMsTh3p_8w2qryykfDvB
19:49:11 <rdococ> O_o
19:50:42 <rdococ> . o O ( a queue w/ a peek operation is equivalent to a tape )
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19:53:21 <rdococ> imode: What if you had a call queue rather than a call stack?
19:53:51 <imode> no idea. experiment.
19:54:01 <imode> you'd go from depth-first to breadth-first.
19:54:05 <imode> fwiw.
19:54:24 <rdococ> how would the breadth-first calls be evaluated then?
19:54:56 <imode> I'd think it'd look something like the actor model.
19:55:09 <rdococ> meh
19:55:10 <rdococ> maybe
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19:58:35 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 18.00, score 45.87, rank 2/47 (--)
19:58:46 <rdococ> I'd try creating a language where everything is a set, but that already probably exists
20:07:22 <imode> setl, yup.
20:07:46 <imode> just because these things exist doesn't mean you can't still do stuff.
20:08:52 <rdococ> true
20:09:01 <rdococ> I guess... although pairs are looking kind of nice right now
20:09:09 <imode> tuples, baybe.
20:09:25 <imode> tuples are fun. go look up Linda.
20:10:03 <rdococ> couldn't find anything related to tuples with "Linda"
20:10:19 <imode> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_(coordination_language)
20:10:23 <rdococ> anyway, all you really need is the pairs. you can do tuples with pairs. (3, (2, 4))
20:10:28 <imode> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuple_space
20:10:38 <imode> https://software-carpentry.org/blog/2011/03/tuple-spaces-or-good-ideas-dont-always-win.html
20:11:21 <rdococ> meh, pairs
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20:12:45 <rdococ> I'd say sets but idk how I'd implement pairs with it. ik {{a}, {a, b}} enables you to determine which order they're in, but how do you reach the members of a set in the first place - it's not like they're key-value pairs
20:12:54 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 16.45, score 42.05, rank 2/47 (--)
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20:16:23 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points -5.76, score 14.38, rank 41/47 (-39)
20:17:14 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 9.29, score 29.86, rank 7/47 (+34)
20:22:26 <rdococ> Concept: an encryption form similar to those we have now, but more easily reversible
20:22:35 <rdococ> it might be usable for compression
20:22:38 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 19.05, score 48.28, rank 2/47 (+5)
20:23:10 <rdococ> doesn't every joust have a playing field?
20:30:18 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 19.05, score 48.28, rank 2/47 (--)
20:33:32 <rdococ> imode: what about a lang where every number is a fraction?
20:34:03 <imode> ...literally one of the well-known esolangs.
20:34:08 <rdococ> rather than storing 1.5, you'd store 3 / 2
20:34:13 <rdococ> okay, which one is it this time
20:34:19 <imode> fractran.
20:34:23 <zzo38> In Kvikkalkul all of the number is less than 1
20:34:24 <rdococ> damn it
20:34:24 <imode> :P
20:34:37 <rdococ> ugh, I just want an idea I can claim as my own
20:34:45 <rdococ> and nobody can help me because it'd be their idea then
20:34:52 <imode> why not just do fun stuff.
20:35:07 <rdococ> like what?
20:35:58 <imode> I dunno. forget about being 'original' and just... build the thing that makes you excited?
20:36:19 <rdococ> nothing makes me excited
20:36:25 <imode> they have a pill for that.
20:36:35 <rdococ> they have a pill for everything
20:40:25 <rdococ> imode: remember my "everything is an integer" idea?
20:40:34 <imode> mhm.
20:40:41 <rdococ> well, what if sets were stored as binary data, but could be modified like integers?
20:40:54 <rdococ> I mean, integers (and everything else) is binary data anyway...
20:41:19 <imode> flesh it out a little.
20:41:31 <rdococ> how? the basic premise is there...
20:41:43 <rdococ> you mean like syntax, or...?
20:42:06 <imode> you have the words "store sets as binary data" written down. show me how you'd store example sets.
20:42:10 <imode> how you'd manipulate them.
20:42:12 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 19.67, score 49.17, rank 2/47 (--)
20:42:16 * rdococ sweats
20:42:25 <imode> talking about ideas is easy, implementing them is hard.
20:43:21 <rdococ> each object could (at least to the perspective of the programmer and language itself) be stored as 1) one byte representing the type of the object, 2) one byte representing the size of the object in bytes, and 3) the data itself
20:44:02 <rdococ> ...maybe? I don't know...
20:44:09 <rdococ> told you I'm bad at this
20:44:32 <rdococ> what if we take the other route, and store integers as sets?
20:44:40 <imode> you sound like a very insecure person who needs to stop taking input from people like me.
20:44:57 <rdococ> maybe I should jump off a cliff, I don't know
20:45:26 <imode> well, bungee jumping is always fun.
20:45:31 <rdococ> I'm going to shut up before people start getting angry at me again.
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20:47:49 <rdococ> I keep thinking I'm creative, when I'm not. I'm not a "special" person like people say I am. I'm just an idiot at an old laptop.
20:48:15 <imode> self-deprecation is usually the worst route to take. we're all just doing this for fun.
20:48:32 <rdococ> yeah, well, it's the only route I ever seem to be able to take
20:48:33 <wob_jonas> rdococ: maybe you're special but have to find what you're special in?
20:48:46 <imode> you need something to work on.
20:48:59 <rdococ> wob_jonas: I didn't know nothing counted as a thing I could be special in.
20:49:05 <rdococ> imode, like what?
20:49:17 <imode> some project that you want to wake up and work on every day.
20:49:34 <rdococ> oh please, I get bored of every project I try to start after five minutes
20:49:35 <imode> from personal experience, if I don't have that, I'm a wreck.
20:49:58 <wob_jonas> imode: well, I just completed one. scanning an old book.
20:50:05 <imode> ayyyy.
20:50:05 <wob_jonas> I hope that counts.
20:50:08 <imode> it does.
20:50:43 <rdococ> is there something the high-level end of language design hasn't reified yet?
20:51:01 <imode> rdococ: another thing you should do is stop trying to be original when there's a lot you haven't explored.
20:51:14 <imode> instead, focus on enriching yourself with different ideas.
20:51:21 <rdococ> how
20:51:42 <imode> start with something that seems appealing to you. for example, I was obsessed with forths for a long while, so I implemented a couple.
20:51:52 <imode> they sucked, but it was fun, and stack-based things are fun and easy to work on.
20:52:02 <rdococ> see? all that will happen is sucky stuff
20:52:04 <imode> you seemed to like simple languages like brainfuck.
20:52:18 <imode> yeah, but it gets you to dream of what you could do with what you learned.
20:52:40 <imode> life is all about projects. working on them, taking a break from them, thinking about them, completing them, giving them up.
20:52:41 <rdococ> not in my experience
20:52:59 <imode> without them, we are workers without material.
20:53:14 <rdococ> I am a worker who can't work even with material
20:53:26 <imode> now the first thing you need to do is stop with the defeatism.
20:53:37 <rdococ> why?
20:53:47 <imode> it's good for angsty school kids but if you want to develop as a person, dropping it at your first convenience is good for you.
20:54:05 <imode> we're all just dudes faffing about on computers.
20:54:15 <rdococ> of course schools kids are going to be angsty, they're forced to be at school
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20:55:21 <imode> one of the things I've seen you do is realize that something's been done before and immediately get discouraged.
20:55:31 <rdococ> I can't help it
20:55:39 <imode> that should not be your response. what should be your response is "oh wow, well-trodden ground. let's go exploring."
20:55:48 <rdococ> it just feels like I'm copying other people
20:55:54 <imode> we all are. in some fashion or another.
20:56:00 <imode> shoulders of giants and all that.
20:56:22 <rdococ> well... I was thinking about a language whose programs are secretly written in CPS
20:56:40 <imode> so go forward on that.
20:56:48 <rdococ> so every instruction would be of the form "name a b c k", where k is the continuation
20:56:49 <zzo38> How is it a secret that the programs written in CPS? Nevertheless, you can ty.
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20:57:13 <rdococ> zzo38: I really don't think you're helping.
20:57:39 <imode> regardless of what any of us say or do, it's your project at the end of the day.
20:58:55 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 20.10, score 51.37, rank 1/47 (+1)
21:08:14 <rdococ> I'm still not sure how a call queue could evaluate anything.
21:08:55 <rdococ> ....Hey... CPS has the effect of turning a complicated expression inside out, yes?
21:18:58 <rdococ> Maybe, rather than, say, "(3 * x) + 2", you'd go "*(3, x, +(2))"?
21:19:14 <rdococ> or +(_, 2) or something
21:29:30 <imode> you look like you're building s-expressions.
21:31:45 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points -21.48, score 4.98, rank 45/47 (-44)
21:33:01 <rdococ> imode: breadth-first call queues could be used like this: 3 / 2 (4 * (- 1))
21:33:50 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 20.10, score 51.37, rank 1/47 (+44)
21:33:50 <rdococ> or maybe with a variable r or something
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21:47:01 <rdococ> hm... this is just beginning to look like normal expressions with weird parentheses
21:47:04 <rdococ> imode, what do you think?
21:47:09 <imode> it looks like s-expressions.
21:47:20 <rdococ> s-expressions?
21:47:24 <imode> ...
21:47:34 <rdococ> I'm sorry.
21:47:39 <imode> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression
21:47:44 <imode> no I'm just surprised is all.
21:47:49 <rdococ> ...I just looked that up
21:47:55 <rdococ> I know I'm dumb.
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21:49:01 <imode> you're not dumb. you've just never heard of them before.
21:50:08 <rdococ> ...eh, true.
21:50:16 <rdococ> ...which is also not false! :P
21:50:28 <wob_jonas> `quote
21:50:28 <HackEgo> 788) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
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21:51:19 <rdococ> heh
21:52:04 <xav737> well then
21:52:37 <xav737> nothing happening?
21:52:56 <xav737> kthen
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22:51:32 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 21.26, score 55.04, rank 1/47 (--)
22:54:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Swapper]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52868&oldid=43971 * Ehulinsky * (+2437) added output and pseudo-operators
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22:58:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Swapper]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52869&oldid=52868 * Ehulinsky * (+15) Add self-modifying
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23:12:01 <zzo38> I tried to make this map projection http://mathworld.wolfram.com/AzimuthalEquidistantProjection.html but the meridians at +180 and -180 longitude appear as straight lines (and the parts of longitudes that are close to it appear as straight lines near the equator; maybe it is a problem having to do with precision). Do you know how to fix this please?
23:16:40 <zzo38> Is it supposed to do that? These straight lines are crossing all of the other meridians, so, doesn't looks so good?
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23:35:03 <zzo38> Maybe it is supposed to do that.
23:36:33 <zzo38> Now that I thought of it, I suppose it probably is supposed to do that, because it is going to be a discontinuity (since it is on the other side of the world, so the line would be at the top instead of the right side; the straight line is due to the discontinuity)
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23:46:16 <boily> `5 w
23:46:21 <HackEgo> 1/3:oerjan//Your omnipheasant back principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. \ `sled//`sled <filename>//<sed script> \
23:46:29 <boily> `n
23:46:30 <HackEgo> 2/3:zomgmodules//ZOMGMODULES is both a small blonde veterinarian and just modules over the ring of ZOMGs. \ bicyclic monoid//The bicyclic monoid is the free monoid generated by two wheels of a bicycle, quotiented by the restriction that the bicycle itself is equal to the identity. \ claustrophobia//Claustrophobia thought the wisdom database was get
23:46:32 <boily> `n
23:46:32 <HackEgo> 3/3:ting too crowded, so left.
23:46:57 <boily> fungot: what's a darth ept?
23:46:57 <fungot> boily: at a speed of over eight hundred thousand things to save the city, and the skyline is dominated by billboards, ads like that burn my biscuits, pal, or go to an early gravy!
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23:50:34 <oerjan> hm still +R
23:51:32 <boily> hellørjan.
23:51:41 <boily> is it dire?
23:53:34 <oerjan> helloily. well the logs perviously spoke of child porn.
23:53:43 * oerjan decided not to fix that misspelling.
23:54:34 <boily> oh.
23:54:43 <oerjan> so freenode seems to have put everyone(?) on +R as default mode.
23:54:50 <boily> `slwd oerjan//s/twice/thrice/
23:54:52 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant back principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He thrice punned without noticing it.
23:55:01 <oerjan> um i noticed that.
23:55:14 <oerjan> before pressing enter.
23:55:32 <oerjan> although the typing itself was subconscious.
23:56:22 <boily> the subconscious spoke.
23:56:38 <boily> “+R - Enables use of the recover and clear commands.” ← what does it mean?
23:56:58 <oerjan> that's for channels, you should look at user modes.
23:56:59 <zzo38> That is not what it says? Use command "HELP UMODE" it explain its meaning
23:57:16 <oerjan> or actually, that's for op flags.
23:57:39 <oerjan> well maybe.
23:58:09 <zemhill> Lymia.nyuroki2: points 12.24, score 35.23, rank 4/47 (-3)
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