00:00:48 https://icfpcontest2017.github.io/post/lightning-one/ -- status update about judging the ICFP contest 2017, somewhat disappointing because they're still very early in the process 00:04:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHARGED CHICKEN). 00:05:00 * rdococ has quit (Quit: TASTY CHICKEN) 00:09:17 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 00:54:10 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:55:34 -!- imode has joined. 00:57:06 -!- Antoxyde_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:04:33 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:08:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:21:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:58:09 [wiki] [[(0)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52887 * B jonas * (+6867) Created page with "'''(0)''' is a family of programming languages by [[David Madore]] defined in the 2017-08 blog entry [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2017-08-18.2460.html Un peu de prog..." 02:00:10 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52888&oldid=52886 * B jonas * (+10) Add (0), also fix some of the asciibetisation 02:01:15 [wiki] [[David Madore]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52889&oldid=52878 * B jonas * (-73) 02:02:00 this is a super nomicy act: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06l21?search=leap#BK0 02:02:16 " If a provision conferring power on a person or entity to make a regulation is amended, or repealed and replaced, so as to confer the power or substantially the same power on a different person or entity, the second person or entity has power to revoke, amend or replace the regulation made by the first one. " 02:03:56 was this enacted after an ex-president complaining to the new one "dude, stop undoing what I did" 02:05:03 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 02:05:12 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 02:05:55 I hope this time I didn't accidentally create an esolang that's substantially different from the one David described. That was an embarrassing although interesting error. 02:07:18 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit). 02:08:25 -!- oerjan has set topic: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf. 02:08:55 the ICFP contest is, like, over. 02:43:37 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to sidy. 02:45:05 -!- sidy has changed nick to moony. 02:46:42 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * UtilityHotbar * New user account 02:51:03 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52890&oldid=52837 * UtilityHotbar * (+181) /* Introductions */ 02:53:50 -!- moony has changed nick to sidy. 02:54:09 oerjan: How come no olist today? 02:54:09 -!- sidy has changed nick to moony. 03:00:27 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: See ya! o/). 03:00:29 shachaf: the olist has been eclipsed hth 03:02:23 another totally human new user, i see 03:14:24 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:15:21 `? rdocco 03:15:23 Rdocco Coffee is a well-known brand of coffee in Universe M-7, and does not contain a highly lethal substance engineered to cause bullet time and addiction. 03:15:34 `forget rdocco 03:15:35 Forget what? 03:16:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:23:02 @tell TieSoul how does that restriction make any semblance of sense <-- random guess: they want to make sure people don't use their email as password. 03:23:02 Consider it noted. 03:28:53 `hurl 03:28:53 https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/ 04:25:02 [wiki] [[B1nary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52891 * UtilityHotbar * (+4263) Created page with "==B1NARY== *No Hello world program available* B1nary is a language developed while UtilityHotbar was attempting to create a tally/prediction machine for use as an example intr..." 04:26:45 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52892&oldid=52891 * UtilityHotbar * (+40) 04:28:00 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52893&oldid=52892 * UtilityHotbar * (+48) 04:28:01 `? kerbal 04:28:02 kerbal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:28:15 `? space 04:28:16 Humans come from space. In particular, the part of space that has Earth in it. 04:29:38 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52894&oldid=52893 * UtilityHotbar * (+86) 04:31:17 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52895&oldid=52894 * UtilityHotbar * (+35) 04:31:46 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52896&oldid=52895 * UtilityHotbar * (+9) /* Introduction */ 04:32:11 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52897&oldid=52896 * UtilityHotbar * (-34) /* B1NARY */ 04:32:31 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52898&oldid=52897 * UtilityHotbar * (+1) /* Introduction */ 04:33:22 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52899&oldid=52898 * UtilityHotbar * (+2) /* Output */ 04:33:54 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52900&oldid=52888 * UtilityHotbar * (+13) /* B */ 04:35:05 `? program 04:35:06 A program is an image created by means of prography. 04:35:13 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52901&oldid=52899 * UtilityHotbar * (+2) /* B1NARY */ 04:35:52 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52902&oldid=52901 * UtilityHotbar * (+9) /* Introduction */ 04:36:26 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52903&oldid=52902 * UtilityHotbar * (+48) /* B1NARY */ 04:37:28 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52904&oldid=52903 * UtilityHotbar * (+16) /* Output */ 04:39:40 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52905&oldid=52904 * UtilityHotbar * (+254) /* Counter manipulation and the trash function */ 04:39:58 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52906&oldid=52905 * UtilityHotbar * (+3) /* Counter manipulation and the trash function */ 04:43:01 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52907&oldid=52906 * UtilityHotbar * (+10) /* == */ 04:43:49 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52908&oldid=52907 * UtilityHotbar * (+44) /* Basic commands: */ 04:44:04 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52909&oldid=52908 * UtilityHotbar * (+4) /* Conditions */ 04:45:07 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52910&oldid=52909 * UtilityHotbar * (+17) /* Syntax and Commands */ 04:55:14 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52911&oldid=52910 * UtilityHotbar * (+9631) 04:56:01 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52912&oldid=52911 * UtilityHotbar * (-32) /* Interpreters: */ 04:58:09 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52913&oldid=52912 * UtilityHotbar * (-75) /* Interpreters: */ 05:01:44 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52914&oldid=52913 * UtilityHotbar * (+0) /* Interpreters: */ 05:05:43 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 05:06:43 `? oerjan 05:06:44 Your omnipheasant back principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He thrice punned without noticing it. 05:06:48 oerjan: What was the third pun? 05:06:59 `? password 05:07:00 ask boily 05:07:00 The password of the word is unacceptably delayed 05:07:07 wat 05:07:15 `dowg password 05:07:22 11155:2017-08-16 learn The password of the word is unacceptably delayed \ 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 `slwd password//s, word, month, 05:07:40 password//The password of the month is unacceptably delayed 05:08:13 was that a pun? if so i didn't notice it. 05:08:25 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:08:29 (i think he meant something else though) 05:09:06 [wiki] [[User:UtilityHotbar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52915 * UtilityHotbar * (+102) Created page with "Random guy, came through to add my experimental half-baked esolang to the mix. See here --> [[B1nary]]" 05:09:22 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:34:25 [wiki] [[B1nary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52916&oldid=52914 * UtilityHotbar * (+17) /* Counter manipulation and the trash function */ 05:37:30 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52917&oldid=52890 * UtilityHotbar * (+218) /* Introductions */ 05:39:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:42:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:55:54 -!- aloril has joined. 06:02:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:04:00 -!- Guest13707 has joined. 06:04:00 -!- Guest13707 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:10 -!- augur has joined. 06:38:46 -!- erkin has joined. 06:44:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:44:30 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:45:22 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:50:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:01:40 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:03:29 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:08:10 -!- sleffy has joined. 09:05:35 -!- Antoxyde has joined. 09:11:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:19:06 -!- mroman has joined. 09:54:04 -!- augur has joined. 09:54:07 -!- mertyildiran has joined. 09:56:42 Hi, I have created this program (https://github.com/DragonComputer/Swarm/blob/master/swarm.py) which is an interpreter for an esoteric language that I designed to be able to support random program generation. 09:58:16 Language's state is currently draft and it consists of 360 (which can be change in the future) atomic instructions. 09:59:26 This file contains a self-replicating program (https://github.com/DragonComputer/Swarm/blob/master/replicate.code) 10:02:10 My purpose was designing a logic to provide evolutionary improvements over the generated programs. But I'm failing to get a successful result. There are two main problems here; 10:03:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:03:25 1 - Generated random programs are too random and useless that it seems like they will never be able to reach to a useful state. 10:06:35 2 - I was planing the use threading to provide a competitive ecosystem for the programs that the goal is the program with the most system resource consumption is the program that be able to replicate itself most. 10:08:00 But seems like operating system's max thread limit is an issue and the logic of my program for generating a competitive environment is failing. 10:10:00 Could someone desire to collaborate in such an idea like combining automatic program generation and evolutionary algorithms? Because I desperately need help :/ 10:12:43 http://codepad.org/nrx1ufya 10:12:44 muahahah! 10:14:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:18 you can try to use it by `python swarm.py` command it will generate random programs on the same directory. 10:14:52 -!- augur has joined. 10:17:59 http://codepad.org/p96yiH4x 10:18:04 now nobody can out bfderivative me 10:19:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:24:41 http://codepad.org/Fd2NsMyX 10:28:12 oh there's a bug 10:43:44 http://codepad.org/kANZH82k 10:43:50 ok now cellptr ops in it 10:53:26 mertyildiran: I tried to do what you're doing 10:53:28 but the problem is 10:53:40 "local optima" 10:53:58 for example let's say you want to write a program that can NOT a binary digit 1 -> 0, 0 -> 1 10:54:08 a program that produces 0 for all inputs will be "fairly" good 10:54:13 mroman: it's not even optimizing a little bit. Its state is far from machine learning. 10:54:36 and every change to the const 0 program will temporarily make it worse 10:54:44 so you'll never end up with a better program through random mutations alone 10:54:51 mroman: did you run the swarm.py file? 10:54:56 no 10:55:12 thus proving that creationists were correct in saying the eye is too complex to have evolved . 10:55:14 :D 10:55:17 OK try to run then you will see the result on your terminal. 10:56:20 what does it even do? 10:56:45 mroman: creates random programs and run them. 10:56:54 and what's the point in that? 10:57:03 mroman: you have a linux based system right? 10:57:06 yes 10:57:14 mroman: OK then you can try. 10:57:37 mroman: the point is creating a general purpose program generation. 10:58:06 for what? 10:58:18 mroman: there is no practical purpose 10:59:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:59:27 mroman: look there are 2 main problems. I have a solution for the first one. 11:01:03 mroman: I will create a statistical data from top 10 best Python projects to find out the frequency distribution of the Python keywords and standard libraries. 11:02:04 mroman: and generate instructions according to that distribution data. For example print 0.08, if 0.05, while 0.03 etc. 11:02:30 mroman: so that the program will not be too random. 11:02:42 mroman: but for second problem I have no solution. 11:02:56 mroman: I'm simply unable to create a competitive environment. 11:03:17 mroman: operating system and some low level implementations are blocking my way. 11:03:57 mroman: also the overall logic is not certain in my mind. 11:06:15 mroman: I mean how we can define success and failure for a computer program? I tried to use "if there is an error in the program then it's a failure and don't replicate itself" but the error rate is too high that no program is able to survive. 11:15:16 -!- zseri has joined. 11:27:28 hello, fellow members of homo sapiens! I have not been abducted and replaced with an exact replica of myself whose job is to act, look, and even think like me while being under the control of evil aliens!......wait. 11:28:11 rdococ: as long as you act and think the same, nobody's gonna care. 11:28:59 good, because that means the non-existent aliens will not be unable to carry out their plan of enslaving humanity! not mw not ha not ha! 11:31:27 rdococ: hi, my name is John Titor and I'm not a time traveller just an ordinary person. Nice meet with a non-alien person. 11:31:45 *Nice to meet... 11:32:27 heh 11:33:37 Concept: a goto system that supports implicit longjmp without having to declare that you want to jump longly 11:33:46 so sort of like continuations, I guess? 11:34:25 -!- boily has joined. 11:34:30 hi boily. 11:34:57 really, the way I could see something like that working is a construct that declares a global variable set to the continuation of a block, and then executes that block 11:35:15 e.g. { stuffBeforeLabel } label abc; stuffAfterLabel; 11:35:26 abc would be defined as the continuation as stuffBeforeLabel. 11:36:05 which would, coincidentally, transfer control flow to the beginning of stuffAfterLabel. 11:41:12 Somebody has Capgras? 11:45:36 hm. 11:46:40 rdochelloc, mrelloman. 11:51:40 hello. 11:51:43 Heya 11:51:47 boily detected. 11:52:43 concept: functions which have access to not only their continuations, but... well... it's hard to explain, but it's the opposite of a continuation :P 11:53:13 so they have access to their continuation (continues execution) and their, well, history...? 11:55:04 i DID IT 11:55:05 I think. 11:55:09 -!- mertyildiran has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:55:33 http://codepad.org/Vxk0UKmP <- this oughta work to emulate a 4bit flip flop 11:55:36 well 11:55:43 4x 1 bit flip flops 11:55:51 that are addressable 11:57:23 ah fuck 11:57:23 no 11:57:31 nah forget it 11:57:39 this just allows you to store cell[adr] = adr 11:59:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:00:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:00:48 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:00:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:01:52 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:04:17 -!- ^v has joined. 12:05:06 -!- catern has joined. 12:06:06 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 12:06:51 -!- olsner has joined. 12:11:49 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:22:41 -!- mertyildiran has joined. 12:23:23 Did anyone write an answer to my questions? 12:28:55 which one? 12:29:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMPACT CHICKEN). 12:31:30 success or failure of a program 12:31:36 do you have an expected output? 12:31:44 then you calculate the derivation from the output 12:33:07 -!- mroman_ has joined. 12:33:18 for random programs... 12:33:19 well 12:33:24 some of them might not even terminate 12:33:24 so 12:33:33 and you never know whether they will terminate or run forever 12:33:43 so that depends on what you consider success 12:36:34 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:41:09 and yes, forking a lot of threads will fuck up the OS scheduling 12:41:10 and resources 12:41:49 also python internal threads are only useful for I/O heavy things afaik 12:42:00 because executing python byte code takes a global lock 12:42:20 so unless you have threads waiting for I/O there's pretty much no benifit in having multiple threads afaik 12:43:48 mroman_: in nature lack of resources cause the elimination. Organism with better DNA survives. Computers have also limited resources. How do we implement the same logic with nature's? 12:45:22 uhm... 12:45:26 I think the rules of operating system is the main problem here. 12:45:37 if you want to "create" "animals" 12:45:44 then you need to have some environment 12:45:48 that you put programs in 12:45:52 in which they can move around and gather food 12:45:54 otherwise 12:45:57 what's the point? 12:46:27 organism with better DNA survives because they are fitter for a purpose 12:46:33 but what is YOUR purpose? 12:46:38 Sure CPython is not a good choice for parallelism but I was looking a completely error free language. 12:46:53 A program that runs long? Then while 1: is the best program anyway 12:47:11 ---> very boring 12:47:44 you might be interested in CoreWars 12:47:46 or BF Joust 12:47:54 programs compete against each other 12:48:14 this way you can evolve programs by letting them fight against each other and take the winner 12:48:23 mutate the winner into 10 new programs and then see if one of thes performs even better 12:48:42 but you need a heuristic function to determine which program is better than another 12:48:56 (which in core wars is how many other programs it can beat) 12:49:19 i.e. if you want to find the fastest brainfuck program to compute 100 12:49:57 then your heuristic function will depend on the amount of cycles it used and how far it is of off producing the number 100 12:50:18 then you create 10 random initial programs, mutate each into 10, run them each and then pick the top 10 of those and repeat 12:50:30 or you use a more genetic approach where you "combine" programs into each other 12:51:28 i.e. instead of creating 100 random version of the top 10 you "breed" these top 10 among each other and then run those 12:52:13 trivially something like while j < len(...): new_dna = dna_parent_a[j] if rand(0,1) == 0 else dna_parent_b[j] 12:52:36 so the new dna is a mix of the two parents dna 12:52:46 not very sufficient 12:52:52 *clever 12:53:05 in practice i think they slice whole regions and also cut/add/extend dna 12:53:17 !bftxt_gen 12:53:20 !help 12:53:20 mroman_: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 12:53:23 hm 12:53:27 ^help 12:53:27 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 12:53:35 `help 12:53:35 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch [] " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 12:53:38 we have too many bots 12:53:48 `run ls / 12:53:52 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 12:53:55 `run ls /bin 12:53:56 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chacl \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ getfacl \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ jo 12:54:08 `run ls opt 12:54:08 ls: cannot access opt: No such file or directory 12:54:13 `run ls /opt /usr/bin 12:54:18 ​/opt: \ \ /usr/bin: \ [ \ 2to3 \ 2to3-2.6 \ 2to3-2.7 \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ aot-compile \ appletviewer \ apropos \ apt \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ ar \ ar 12:54:30 hm 12:55:08 `genbf moo 12:55:09 fold: invalid number of columns: ‘moo’ 12:55:13 `genbf 10 12:55:14 ​,<+,.,>-+> 12:55:23 hm 12:56:20 `döts brainfuck 12:56:21 bräïnfück 12:56:27 right. 12:56:39 mroman_: yeah that's also a good question, an endless loop is the most resource heavy thing. Isn't a window driven program's root level code an endless loop? 12:57:18 depends on the architecture. 12:57:28 if you poll events then yes 12:57:50 if you use some kind of ipc signaling 12:57:52 then not necessarily 12:58:22 an endless busy loop is 12:58:39 but an endless while 1: sleep(100101001980901010191801) is not that resource heavy 12:58:56 mroman_: there is no clear goal in biological evolution so we should define a rule that governs all kind of programs. 12:59:09 there is a clear rule 12:59:14 reproducing and surviving 12:59:20 well "clear" 12:59:39 you want to create programs that replicate themselves? 13:00:14 but gotta catch the train 13:00:15 cya 13:00:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:01:02 mroman_: reproducing and surviving is not defining the DNA's goal. Environment decides who will survive. 13:01:28 mroman_: yes I'm talking about self-replicating programs. The script I show is also self replicating. 13:05:09 -!- mroman_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:09:41 mroman_: what I mean an endless loop with a break in some point is the best kind of program possible so that's not a problem. We can implement max execution time for a program like 1 hour to prevent any true endless loop. The problem is what would be the logic of watchful eye for the evolution... 13:11:19 -!- mertyildiran has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:17:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:38:31 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:00:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:07:40 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:23:07 `unidecode ü 14:23:09 ​[U+00FC LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS] 14:36:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:37:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:38:14 `genbf 50 14:38:16 ​[,.-,-[>-[<.-,<-[>,-]-],.]<-.[.-.+.,]>]-.--<-<>+,- 14:39:18 that's stupid code 14:40:11 at the very least it shouldn't do -, 14:40:22 or end in - 14:40:25 or <> 14:40:57 can we have a better generator plz? 14:47:11 what does genbf do? 14:49:45 it cooks pizzas 14:51:00 `genbf 100 14:51:02 ​>.<>[+><[+>-.,<,<-<+++]--,<,>[,.,,<<+.[>++,+,.,..[].[]->]-+<>-,[<>><]+,][<+>,--<>+>-,,.-->,+,.<>+]+] 14:51:23 come on, [].[] 14:52:26 -+<> and -<>+ 14:52:31 * izabera is not impressed 14:53:54 best part is that the program will just output one null character 14:54:20 and then stop 15:04:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:12:59 heh 15:13:16 idea for `genbf: make it detect and remove redundancies like that 15:14:33 e.g. replace <> and +- with nothing. 15:14:47 yeah 15:15:10 and replace -<>+ with nothing too, along with other redundancies like <-+> 15:15:24 -!- augur has joined. 15:15:57 or, better yet, simulate each piece of potentially redundant code to see how redundant it is 15:16:14 , and . are definitely not redundant, but <+-+--+>+-+--+<> is 15:16:41 although that might not work with while loops 15:19:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:24:35 `` type genbf 15:24:37 genbf is /hackenv/bin/genbf 15:24:40 `` pwd 15:24:41 ​/hackenv 15:24:48 `` file bin/genbf 15:24:50 bin/genbf: ASCII text 15:24:57 `` paste bin/genbf 15:24:58 https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/genbf 15:25:10 ew 15:27:59 sed -n '.... /foo/b;p;q' -> sed '.... /foo/d;q' 15:28:10 anyway 15:28:24 what are the odds that a random 50 char string is valid brainfuck? 15:32:36 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 15:37:20 -!- imode has joined. 15:53:04 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:07:19 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:21:45 [wiki] [[Nil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52918&oldid=37987 * AJF * (+43) /* External resources */ 16:25:45 -!- pelegreno______ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:26:59 -!- pelegreno has joined. 16:33:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:39:43 [wiki] [[(0)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52919&oldid=52887 * B jonas * (+133) 16:43:10 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:44:29 (0_0) 16:50:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:54:46 -!- Sgeoweb has joined. 16:54:52 https://twitter.com/hikari_no_yume/status/900013177026609152 17:12:42 Haha 17:12:54 -!- moony has joined. 17:13:50 Moony! 17:13:54 well, there *are* interpreters 17:13:54 How is the universe doing today? 17:14:22 . o O ( still bathing in ~4K background radiation ) 17:14:47 uh, no, it's 2.7K 17:15:50 rdococ, depends on what part. 17:16:07 is the Andromeda Galaxy okay? 17:16:39 Well, some of the... Damn i cant even give a prononciation of the species name, are having a all-out war. 17:16:50 Ah. 17:30:16 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:32:08 -!- erkin has joined. 17:38:49 izabera: I think to be valid, just the brackets have to match? Other than that, any unrecognized character is OK but ignored. 17:39:21 <\oren\> I cam up with some numbers that work but I don't know why... 17:40:07 <\oren\> I hope the people who make self-driving cars work in a less haphazerd way 17:40:57 They don't 17:42:07 <\oren\> also boost jam can eat a bag of dicks 17:42:33 zzo38: sure, i was asking about the odds of balanced brackets 17:42:51 <\oren\> it isn't better than our build system, it just has different problems 17:54:03 moony: I think you're talking about the K'thlh'an and the Þ'eßđ'tħŋen species? 18:02:25 rdococ, no... maybe. 18:12:25 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:16:17 hm. how are the P'þan'eæß ðø's getting along? 18:16:29 [ Insert Sudden Microwave Ping! ] 18:16:29 rdococ: Insert (Sudden Microwave Ping ! ]) 18:16:50 Oop! Looks like my universe has compiled! I'll see you soon. 18:17:14 * rdococ runs the universe.......and immediately runs into runtime errors. "...Shit." 18:23:26 `olist 1093 18:23:26 olist 1093: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 18:27:16 * rdococ recompiles the universe, but then runs into compile-time errors. 18:27:39 * rdococ attempts to fix the errors, but then gets pre-compiletime-errors. 18:28:00 can you recompile yourself into another channel or something 18:30:26 <\oren\> shachaf: what do u think of neural networks 18:30:49 \oren\: Neurons are pretty neat. I don't really know much about them. 18:30:56 Brains are very complicated. 18:31:14 -!- Sgeoweb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:38:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:38:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:38:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:41:53 -!- kurolox has joined. 18:42:08 Uh, hello 18:42:15 `relcome kurolox 18:42:16 ​kurolox: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 18:42:58 I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but someone else pointed me here. I have a python bot that runs arbitrary code, and I was looking into a way to sandboxing it to make it relatively safe to use. I've been pointed to UMLBox, but I'm having some issues trying to set it up. 18:44:26 `welcome kurolox 18:44:27 kurolox: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 18:44:36 `version 18:44:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: version: not found 18:44:44 `` uname -a 18:44:45 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 18:45:39 kurolox: unfortunately I have no first-hand experience with this. Gregor is the author of umlbox but usually busy with professing and family. fizzie may be your best bet. 18:47:41 I understand. I'll throw him a private chat and see if he can help me. Unfortunately there's not a lot of documentation out there about UMLBox setup. Thanks! 18:48:04 gregor has a family? 18:50:11 TBH I don't know :P 18:50:21 But what else would he spend all this time on? 18:50:36 Most people have families. 18:50:44 I think it's required in order to be born. 18:50:45 not updating UMLBox, thats for certain 18:58:57 Well, fizzie doesn't seem to be around so I'll leave my specific question here. I'm trying to use linux 3.16.46, so besides extracting that kernel in a folder with the same name inside umlbox files, and editing the makefile to match the version, do I need to do anything else before doing make and install? 18:59:18 it seems like I'm doing something wrong because after that UMLBox complains about the lack of a UML kernel 19:08:35 Hurray! i made linux 4.12.8 work as UMLBox-kernel 19:11:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:15:49 -!- augur has joined. 19:16:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:39 -!- augur has joined. 19:34:47 -!- moony_ has joined. 19:35:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:36:28 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:40 -!- moony has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:36:40 -!- moony_ has changed nick to moony. 19:37:09 -!- moony has changed nick to Guest76625. 19:38:56 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:39:56 -!- Guest76625 has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 19:40:22 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Changing host). 19:40:22 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 19:57:06 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 20:06:12 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:10:26 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:24:14 -!- Antoxyde_ has joined. 20:27:04 -!- Antoxyde has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:33:02 <\oren\> I use the untitled.js framework. it's 0 bytes minified 20:45:15 cool 20:51:04 well, my sj.deltitnu framework is -11 bytes minimized. 20:51:18 s/minimized/minified 20:52:26 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to moonmoon. 20:52:33 -!- moonmoon has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:52:55 -!- moony has joined. 20:56:24 How is that? 21:05:51 kurolox: It's been a while since I set it up. The "umlbox" script is just Python, so it's relatively easy to figure out which paths it checks for the kernel. I think the umlbox Makefile might not have worked out for me, I think I did it semi-manually (make ARCH=um in the kernel directory, and then copied the result to "umlbox-linux"), though on paper just "make && make install" in the umlbox directory 21:05:57 *should* do the trick. 21:10:27 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:25:04 -!- zseri has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:27:11 Hey Fizzle 21:27:14 Thanks for the answer 21:28:05 unfortunately doing make and make install give me some errors due to umlbox-mudem 21:28:38 -!- kurolox has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:12 -!- kurolox has joined. 21:29:25 Sorry, hexchat crashed 21:29:34 however, here's the output of make, with the errors I get 21:29:36 https://ghostbin.com/paste/992wk 21:31:01 however I'll do it like you said 21:31:16 kurolox: In the file mudem/tcp4.c, add the line #define _POSIX_C_SOURCE 201112L /* for getaddrinfo */ after the existing line #define _POSIX_SOURCE /* for strtok_r */ 21:31:33 (At least that's what "hg diff" says I've changed in my local copy.) 21:32:45 That might fix the error Make barfs on. You'll probably also need to install cpio for the command on line 34 of the output to work. 21:33:01 yes, now it builds 21:33:14 well, sort of 21:33:37 it did more than the last time, that's for sure, but now there's another error with the kernel it seems 21:34:01 https://ghostbin.com/paste/xfhap 21:35:14 maybe it's because of the version of the kernel I'm trying to use? 21:35:44 I have a vague notion I might have had to use an older version of GCC to build a 3.x kernel (again, hg diff says I've changed the Makefile to pass "CC=gcc-4.9" to the kernel build step. But I've no idea if the errors you're seeing could be that. 21:36:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:36:21 Hm, should I just use a 4.x kernel? 21:36:52 Honestly I was using 3.16.46 because moony told me that nobody got 4.x to work, but it seems like he did it a few hours ago 21:37:12 I ran into some *other* problems with a modern kernel, but based on his report it's doable. 21:37:18 also, thanks for the help. I haven't thanked you for it. 21:37:27 FWIW the errors you're seeing are probably https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=778157 21:37:36 "Found in version user-mode-linux/3.16-1um-0.1" "Fixed in version user-mode-linux/4.0-1um-0.1" 21:37:47 So, yeah, maybe try 4.x. 21:37:55 If it's painless, maybe I could even update HackEgo one of these days. 21:38:23 Just wondering, which kind of issues have you found in 4.x? 21:39:04 I'll try with 4.12.8, which is the one that moony is using 21:39:09 fizzie, 4.12.8 worked painlessly for me 21:39:33 well, make also worked painlessly for you 21:39:58 MoonyTheDwarf 21:39:58 #3778 21:39:58 botnet 21:39:58 Search 21:39:58 LOAD MORE MESSAGES 21:39:59 [6:13 PM] Kurolox: hm 21:40:02 [6:13 PM] MoonyTheDwarf: thats a issue for a kernel hacker(edited) 21:40:05 err 21:40:06 wtf 21:40:08 discord 21:40:10 y u 21:40:12 sorry 21:40:21 that was amusing 21:40:26 i wanted to copy *one* line 21:40:32 instead it cpies the entire chat history 21:40:42 [8:38 PM] BOTlinbut: @MoonyTheDwarf, 21:40:42 Linux umlbox 4.12.8-umlbox #1 Tue Aug 22 14:03:49 EDT 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux 21:41:14 now it's building with 4.12.8 21:41:18 or at least it went further than before 21:41:27 I don't remember what problems I have with a 4.x kernel, but it was also a year ago. Maybe the current version just happened to be a bad one for UML. 21:41:33 s/have/had/ 21:41:48 It's a bit of a niche thing. 21:42:03 yea, UML is 21:42:05 Well, if I find anything I'll try to report it here 21:42:34 but yeah, more than 10 seconds passed and it haven't stopped yet so I'm calling it a sucess for now 21:43:01 I'll bug moony regarding umlbox usage though, so don't worry about me asking stupid questions here 21:43:07 mk 21:43:43 kurolox, as its going to be a lang sandbox, you wont need a writeable dir. just do 'umlbox -B ' 21:44:25 tmp will function as a temporary writable dir inside the sandbox 21:44:31 by default 21:44:39 hm, but the script I want to sandbox creates files in a specific path 21:44:52 I could change it so it writes them to the writable dir though 21:45:25 kurolox, dont put the script inside the sandbox, instead, have it call the sandbox 21:45:37 -B will mount all base mounts, so python will be avaliable 21:49:26 Hey fizzle 21:49:37 remember that thing I told you about not asking you stupid questions because I had moony? 21:49:41 I didn't last even 5 minutes 21:49:48 lol 21:49:58 kernel panic i dont understand. :P 21:49:59 Running anything with UMLBox gives me a kernel panic 21:50:03 https://ghostbin.com/paste/kneej 21:50:28 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:55:39 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:55:40 `olist 1093 21:55:41 olist 1093: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 21:55:54 wob_jonas: already listed hth 21:56:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:26 is it? I thought I checked the logs. sorry. 22:05:35 -!- imode has joined. 22:08:51 fizzie how does UMLBox calls the kernel? It seems like there might be a problem with "ubda" or something like that with me 22:09:15 at least according to http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/problems.html 22:12:20 -!- kurolox has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:14:08 -!- kurolox has joined. 22:15:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:15:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 22:15:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:17:23 I thought of to make a new kind of XLFD (for use with making up X version 12). You can still use uld XLFD on the same system, and fonts can have multiple names that refer to the same font. 22:20:00 The new format is ":foundry:name:style:spacing:width:height:charset:subsets" 22:20:01 zzo38: Do you like NeWS? 22:20:09 No, I think X is better 22:20:54 Why? 22:22:31 (Actually we can omit the "spacing" field, I think) 22:24:01 The foundry is optional and can be blank. The style is two characters, the first 0 to 3 indicating bold (1 for normal, 2 for bold, 3 for extra-bold), second is "r" or "i" or "o" for slanting, and either or both of them can be "-" instead if unspecified. The width and height are the character cell width/height, and can be blank if they are variable. The charset is a character set name, such as "ascii", "iso8859-1", "iso10646", etc. 22:25:05 The subsets is a list of subsets of the character set that is implemented, which must be in alphabetical order; each one consists of a dot followed by the name followed by another dot (so there are two dots between each pair), and is a single dot by itself if this field is unused. 22:25:19 zzo38: what does X even have to do with this? aren't we all using user-space fonts rendered as graphics in user space to memory buffers which may or may not be direct mappings of video card memory and the rendering may involve graphics card help? 22:26:15 fonts are resolved by user-space libraries like the combination of pango, fontconfig, freetype, or other user-space libraries like those 22:26:32 It doesn't need X, and is actually independent of it, although it can still be used with the font loading mechanism of X. 22:27:02 and those libraries can even transparently use the same bdf fonts that X used to use 22:27:41 or pcf fonts. whichever is the compiled version. 22:28:40 Furthermore, another feature which actually would be part of my version of X 12, that when loading a font you can optionally specify two flags: EnableLigatures, which permits the server to ignore the requirement that a string of multiple characters is the same as all of those character put together, and EnableAntialiasing, which permits the server to ignore the requirement that the character only consists of on/off pixels in the bounding box. 22:29:38 (The EnableLigatures flag is also needed in order to render astral Unicode characters, since they don't fit in 16-bits.) 22:35:35 However, the protocol request to set the font path is now gone (although some implementations may support a ExtensionControl request to control them), and there is no requirement as to how exactly the server loads and implements the fonts; it is not required to implement EnableLigatures and EnableAntialiasing (and if it doesn't, those flags are just ignored). There is no requirement of storing font names either, so an implementation could make up f 22:42:29 (It is still recommended that at least .pcf is supported, although it is not strictly a requirement anymore.) 22:42:37 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:42:44 Do you like this? 23:02:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:05:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:21:49 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:36:22 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:44:56 kurolox: I don't think there's really a one-line answer to that. But it does use an "ubda=..." argument to pass in a "configuration" file (what setup to do and what commands to run) as a virtual block device. The init binary reads the config from there and does what it's told to do. 23:46:53 Has the people other than myself try to think of how to make a (large) computer program that can work even if the cards that the program is punched on are shuffled, for a loading mechanism such as the MIX "Go button" loading mechanism? 23:49:15 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:49:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:59:48 fizzie, did some tests. 4.12.8 works without issues for me. I'll be waiting for hackego to get upgraded.