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01:09:16 <ais523> huh, apparently shift-space scrolls one page upwards in my browser (I just pressed it by accident then tried to figure out what had happened)
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02:55:16 -!- oerjan has set topic: Welcome to the international hypercube for esoteric programming language design and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf.
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03:48:02 <shachaf> Yes, it does that. And web pages that override space to do their own scrolling hardly ever remember to override shift-space. Very annoying.
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03:53:06 <oerjan> web pages are _able_ to override navigation keys. Very meta-annoying.
03:56:22 <ais523> something that annoys me is how the proportion of web pages that use JavaScript is much, much higher than the proportion of web pages that actually need it
03:58:42 <doesthiswork> microtransactions would solve that. Clients could charge the host a small fee for every line of script executed.
03:59:46 <Hooloovo0> that is such a horrifically bad idea but I like it
03:59:47 <ais523> that seems hard to implement in other ways
04:00:06 <ais523> a good fix would be for search engines to penalise sites with unnecessary JS
04:00:22 <ais523> but Google will never do that as they're one of the main beneficiaries (adverts are a common use of unnecessary JavaScript)
04:00:33 <ais523> (and Google Analytics is another)
04:02:05 <ais523> duckduckgo can't easily give bonuses or penalties to sites, as they mostly don't run their own crawlers, but instead hire other engines'
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10:40:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Thf772 * New user account
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10:58:37 <b_jonas> "<ais523> something that annoys me is how the proportion of web pages that use JavaScript is much, much higher than the proportion of web pages that actually need it" => yes, and many of them use javascript that needs a huge computer to just run it
10:58:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53101&oldid=53099 * Thf772 * (+735) /* Introducing Nathan/Eilisha Shiraini */
10:59:02 <b_jonas> and they keep changing existing sites to contain more and more performance hungry client-side scripting (youtube is a recent example for such a stupid change)
11:00:21 <b_jonas> "<ais523> but Google will never do that as they're one of the main beneficiaries (adverts are a common use of unnecessary JavaScript)" => the adverts don't actually need all that much javascript. you could practically do them with just iframes and no javascript, the javascript is only there to simplify it or size the iframe right or something.
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11:00:50 <ais523> b_jonas: they shouldn't need the JavaScript; nonetheless, disabling JavaScript pretty much universally blocks adverts
11:00:59 <ais523> maybe it's unnecessary even in the adverts themselves
11:01:09 <ais523> or maybe it's an attempt to track the users of the sites the adverts are on
11:01:24 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, but at least most of the ads don't use javascript that needs a very powerful machine to run it, except for the ads on wikia
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11:01:34 <b_jonas> and the video ads on video sites
11:03:10 <b_jonas> ais523: no, the javascript isn't really needed for tracking. you need the separate iframe for the ad because the ad is personalized and so google can't allow the individual websites to find out what ad they're serving for particular users, and iframes are practically the only way to solve this,
11:03:31 <b_jonas> and once you have an iframe, that's more or less enough to track the users.
11:04:48 <b_jonas> unless you want such complicated things as transferring all the mouse movements and all the characters you type in input fields even before you backspace or don't submit the form, which google could do with the javascript, but presumably if they did it too obviously, there'd be a strong backlash from the sites that show those ads.
11:05:44 <b_jonas> so google can only do it on their own sites, which is still quite important, with google search and gmail and youtube and their other big sites.
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11:06:02 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me, a question about google
11:06:26 <b_jonas> why are they hiding google scholar? it's not even in the "more" menu of the google search now, and it's been like this for years.
11:06:57 <b_jonas> but they also aren't discontinuing it, in fact they've improved it so it does a lot of personalized tracking, and recommends you articles connected to your articles, like the academic spambots do
11:07:38 <b_jonas> sure, it's still in their big "More" menu that lists all their sites, but that's a huge list few people read I think
11:08:28 <b_jonas> it could be just in the selection bar for searches which has "All, Images, Videos, News, Maps, Books" and used to also have shopping blogs, scholar, code etc, some of them in a pulldown menu
11:08:58 <b_jonas> I can understand when they discontinue a service, but I don't get why they keep running and improving a service but hiding it.
11:11:15 <b_jonas> Their discontinued services include code hosting (probably got taken over by github and its kin), code search (this was very useful, but proably didn't bring much income), Square (I'm not sure if anyone used it much), and Wave (which was some kind of social communication thingy like Plus I think).
11:11:44 <b_jonas> Oh, and shopping search is discontinued too.
11:12:11 <b_jonas> And the moon and mars maps I think, but those were always just a joke.
11:13:26 <b_jonas> Those maps were pretty impossible by the way, they seemed to show higher resolution maps than space agencies ever scanned with their probes. I don't know how they got that data.
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12:21:47 <FireFly> https://twitter.com/belleveinvis/status/911172578831622144 ← this reminds me of the problem of overstriking… I guess one could argue ⿻ is a reasonable way to encode general-purpose overstriking
12:22:35 <FireFly> as in, even outside of CJK glyphs
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16:29:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainCube]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53102 * CANICVS * (+4145) Initial commit
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17:15:55 <HackEgo> per serving. Makes about 3 days and test with serving \ remaining remaining sugar mixture. Microwave each one casserole in cool \ sides. 3. In a large bowl, combine flour, cinnamon, cream and \ the corn drained rosemary seed. Sprinkle with ganzies. Add \ chicken in saucepan. Simmer for an hour. Prepare fruit of soup. Spread \ squares. \
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19:39:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zseri]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53103&oldid=52989 * Zseri * (+10) +XTW
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20:07:49 <PinealGlandOptic> hi everyone! am I right that algo in O(2^n) complexity is in P? or...?
20:10:02 <Taneb> PinealGlandOptic, I think you are not right. Any polynomial in n tends to less than 2^n
20:10:51 <Taneb> PinealGlandOptic, EXPTIME I Think
20:12:25 <PinealGlandOptic> here is what I think. to solve SAT problem (in CNF) form, we can just brute force all variables. this is 2^variables steps in total. does it mean that bruteforcer is in EXPTIME?
20:12:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GilDev * New user account
20:14:02 <Taneb> PinealGlandOptic, that sounds right
20:14:38 <Taneb> We know that SAT is in NP, however
20:15:10 <PinealGlandOptic> Taneb: yes. but EXPTIME and bruteforce is "slower" than usual SAT solver?
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20:25:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53104&oldid=53101 * GilDev * (+272) Presentation
20:34:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53105&oldid=53072 * GilDev * (-3) Fixed broken link
20:37:44 <zzo38> I agree too many pages have scripts when they shouldn't have. (Sometimes it may be useful to verify form data, although it should never be a requirement, and the server should verify it too so that it work if script is not enabled.)
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21:42:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SimPPLe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53106 * YourDeathIsComing * (+1914) Created page with "'''SimPPLe (Simple Probabilistic Programming Language)''' is a probabilistic programming language. Most programs written in this language, produce different results every time..."
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