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00:49:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53304&oldid=53300 * B jonas * (-54) /* Compiler */
00:57:01 <zzo38> b_jonas: I have fixed the things you requested for Farbfeld Utilities. (However, I do not have the file to test the "rgbff" program.)
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01:12:29 <wob_jonas> zzo38: to test rgbff with what input?
01:12:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Correct Syntax Error]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53305&oldid=35965 * Elronnd * (+381) Another idea
01:13:23 <wob_jonas> if you want abgr with premultiplied alpha, then I'll have to export one of those from a program with cairo
01:15:03 <wob_jonas> if you want one that's planewise interlaced, then I'll get a raw yuv444 image
01:24:56 <zzo38> wob_jonas: With any input; you can test it yourself if you want to, and write another complaint in there if you find that it doesn't work. (You can wait until you need it, if you want to.)
01:26:05 <wob_jonas> then I'll have to test with those special options as well as just ordinary raw bgr and grayscale images
01:27:52 <zzo38> Yes, that is how it is working.
01:28:56 <wob_jonas> I will be able to test with various formats
01:30:40 <wob_jonas> also, ff as an abbreviation for the german Farb-feld makes so much sense that now I wonder what ffmpeg was named of
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01:32:36 <zzo38> I don't know either. (But "ff" as an abbreviation for farbfeld is used in the official package as well, not only my own.)
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01:38:02 <wob_jonas> Hmm. The if(v>65535) v=65535; statement in outconv in ff-matrix.c is useless now. I wonder why I left it in.
01:41:04 <zzo38> Wikipedia says "FFmpeg" is for "fast forward".
01:41:32 <shachaf> How does "mpeg" stand for "ast orward"?
01:42:11 <wob_jonas> shachaf: mp stands for motion picture, which makes sense for ffmpeg
01:44:30 <wob_jonas> is it still fast forward in "ffplay"? because that one plays videos at normal speed
01:47:22 <wob_jonas> I can't even run the Olvasható compiler with modern ruby. They changed the syntax too much for my programs.
01:49:33 <wob_jonas> I'm trying to decode what it does, since it's 11 years old code I don't really remember
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01:08:30 <wob_jonas> oh right! in t1n.olv, I implement the loop function with the Y-combinator technique, without explicit recursion
01:08:38 <wob_jonas> but it makes sense to use it to test the compiler
01:24:53 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/a/7Epmp
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01:40:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53306&oldid=53304 * B jonas * (+2119)
01:45:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53307&oldid=53306 * B jonas * (+151)
01:53:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53308&oldid=53307 * B jonas * (-212)
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02:04:00 <wob_jonas> I don't get it. Where does the compiler actually determine whether the match is exhaustive? I don't see the corresponding code
02:09:36 <wob_jonas> This is ridiculous. That code must be big. How did it detect the non-exhaustiveness?
02:10:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53309&oldid=53308 * B jonas * (-751)
02:14:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Olvasható]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53310 * B jonas * (+838) Created page with "== Implicit catch-all abort arm? == It seems as if compiler added an extra aborting arm to non-exhausting <code>let</code> match expressions. You can see such an example in..."
03:09:58 <zzo38> One thing I thought of just now is with using the rgbff with a television like interlacing, where you have odd field and even field lines.
03:10:35 <zzo38> You could do with two planes, one red and one green, and then to do ff-tensor and ff-matrix to combine them into one picture. (You can then ff-dntsc to restore the colours.)
03:13:03 <HackEgo> [U+130BA EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D053]
03:37:11 <Elronnd> ...but which egyptian hieroglyph is it?
03:38:29 <zzo38> I don't know Egyptian so well
03:43:46 <zzo38> Do you have a METAFONT program to make Egyptian hieroglyphics?
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06:45:02 <Taneb> Just remembered a maths lecture I had a couple of years back covering the Nullstellensatz
06:45:49 <Taneb> Lecturer was trying to translate the name into English, and said "null means zero, stellen means points, satz means theorem... the zero point theorem?"
06:45:59 <Taneb> And me being me I shouted out "The pointless theorem?"
06:46:07 <Taneb> And he said "YES! ...no."
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09:22:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53311&oldid=53303 * Osmarks * (+23)
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13:54:56 <HackEgo> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
13:56:43 <boily> Fungot (1BB) Creature ― Fungatog; Phasing, Shroud, Shadow. “Fnord.”
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14:08:00 <boily> What should fungot's P/T be?
14:08:01 -!- fungot has joined.
14:08:08 <boily> fungot: are you powerful?
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14:30:52 <int-e> maybe 1/3, with a +1/0 in irc style.
14:37:12 <int-e> Oh are there any new interesting developments in CaC land? Any new scams?
14:37:47 <int-e> (this came out of pondering the various causes of fungot's phasing)
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15:11:07 <boily> {B}: Fungot gains +1/-1 and lifelink.
15:11:12 <boily> what's a CaC again?
15:18:56 <int-e> that provider that shall not be named
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15:56:51 <quintopia> whats the today plan? tile shuffling?
15:59:11 <int-e> boily: btw I would've thought of fungot as blue, not black.
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17:22:00 <zzo38> Maybe to write, "gains +1/-1 and lifelink until end of turn"
17:23:22 <zzo38> (And, I also don't know what color to put; but you don't need to have only one.)
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19:44:12 <wob_jonas> Haha! After pbf and xkcd, smbc tackles the wishing well too.
19:45:19 <wob_jonas> http://pbfcomics.com/comics/wishing-well/ https://www.xkcd.com/561/ https://www.xkcd.com/568/ http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/wishing-well
19:47:41 <wob_jonas> Yeah, technically the xkcd well isn't a wishing well. Xkcd has eyelash wishes and a wish-granting genie instead.
19:49:10 <wob_jonas> https://www.xkcd.com/152/ is the genie, which story I then used in http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395
19:49:22 <wob_jonas> ais523: let me tell you about the latest bad user interface design I've seen
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20:01:22 <wob_jonas> ais523: so there's this underground here, the M3. its tunnel was built to also serve as an underground bomb shelter back in the cold war scare.
20:02:43 <int-e> http://dilbert.com/strip/1992-04-09
20:03:37 <wob_jonas> in most stations on the platforms, there's two fancy emergency buttons, one with a yellow box with a speaker and microphone to talk to an operator, with encouraging labels next to them about how there's a first aid box and defibrillator machine available at the station master's office,
20:03:59 <int-e> also, "well" is a terrible search term, and even worse when the search engine will also match it with "we'll".
20:04:31 <wob_jonas> and one with a red or black cover and the button presumably underneath saying it's an emergency stop button that shuts down the power at the rails that you must press if someone falls to the tracks, to protect them from electric shock and to stop the train
20:04:51 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, and "wishing well" is also ambiguous
20:05:12 -!- evilmoony has changed nick to moonytheawoo.
20:05:59 <wob_jonas> ais523: so anyway, a few days ago on Kőbánya-Kispest station, which is one of the few surface (not underground) stations of metro M3, I saw that there's a new fancy box:
20:06:36 <wob_jonas> this one has *three* emergency buttons mounted on it, one below the other. on top, there's a yellow box with speaker and button to talk to the operator
20:07:20 <wob_jonas> in the middle, there's a black cover with large label saying emergency stop and pull if someone has fallen on the tracks, but no button in sight because it's behind the cover presumably
20:07:59 <wob_jonas> and in the bottom there's a red panel with a nicely visible button (emergency style hidden behind a small transparent panel) and small label saying it's a fire alarm button
20:08:43 <wob_jonas> If someone falls to the tracks and someone quickly has to press the emergency stop button, he'll very likely press the fire alarm button by mistake, and then he'll have to evacuate the station because there's a fire alarm
20:08:51 <ais523> so you're worried that people will set off the fire alarm trying to stop someone getting electrocuted
20:09:05 <wob_jonas> hopefully the fire alarm ALSO has the side effect of shutting down the electricity
20:09:16 <ais523> in the UK I don't think we have a standard "cut power" button on the Underground
20:09:21 <ais523> or any such button at all
20:09:26 <ais523> we have a standard fire alarm call point design though
20:09:33 <wob_jonas> but who knows, this is an end terminal, so the train LEAVING the station in case of a fire might actually be a good idea
20:09:37 <ais523> in the Underground, it's silent so as to not cause panic
20:10:13 <wob_jonas> ais523: there's not much point for a specific fire alarm button I think. for that, you'd press the operator button.
20:10:46 <wob_jonas> and call people to evacuate when possible
20:11:55 <wob_jonas> the operator phone doesn't seem too useful either, because everyone has a mobile phone, there's guaranteed mobile phone reception in the underground stations, so you can just call the emergency services who contact the operator
20:12:09 <wob_jonas> the power cut button? that one IS absolutely useful, and should be there
20:12:53 <wob_jonas> there's already a few people hit by the metro every year (though most of them deliberately commit suicide by jumping just when the train is coming, so the button wouldn't help, but still)
20:17:51 <wob_jonas> All the metro carriages of M3 and M2 have an call button with mic by the way, which calls the train driver, and the driverless M4 has similar buttons that call an operator.
20:18:26 <wob_jonas> They also have emergency door opener handles, and the older M3 carriages also have emergency break handles.
20:19:09 <wob_jonas> Luckily they omitted the emergency break from the newer types of metro, which is good, because an emergency break in a metro is a bad idea anyway.
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20:20:12 <fungot> wob_jonas: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
20:20:42 <int-e> the fungot style is a bit to fungotty
20:20:42 <fungot> int-e: ( c) a player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra " 0" and ( down-from n ( 0
20:20:50 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:21:02 <fungot> Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset)
20:22:16 <HackEgo> coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ farbfeld:zzo38's Farbfeld utilities is a package of command-line programs (with rather strange command-line syntax) for manipulating images in a specific raw format called farbfeld. It's somewhat underdoc
20:23:45 <HackEgo> Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
20:43:25 <zzo38> Do you have source codes of bdftopcf and pcftobdf programs? This way, can learn working of such format, to make program that can make PCF fonts; I can also then add the support into SDLTERM (which currently does not support custom fonts; it only has a single built-in font).
20:45:28 <wob_jonas> zzo38: let me check, the debian package repository probably knows which package they come from and where their source is
20:46:12 <wob_jonas> https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=bdftopcf&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any says it's the xfonts-utils package
20:47:23 <int-e> @tell oerjan Re: Who cares about ancient cases anyway? / To whom it may concern...
20:47:27 <wob_jonas> which links to https://www.x.org/releases/individual/app/ for tarballs
20:56:28 <int-e> what has become of xlswins?
20:56:51 <zzo38> Also, do you know how to get the missing patch files for WildMIDI? I noticed some are missing, and perhaps that is why some MIDI files won't play properly.
20:58:13 <wob_jonas> int-e: that said, it's possible that bdftopcf is older than the whole x.org and it's inherinted those utilities mostly unchanged from ancient X11
20:58:44 <wob_jonas> I don't know anything about xlswins or WildMIDI or MIDI in general
20:59:09 <int-e> zzo38: I suspect that was for you
21:05:21 <int-e> Hah. X11R5: "xlswins has been removed; it is replaced by xwininfo -tree."
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21:07:09 <zzo38_> A extended pcf format can be made up, with two additional tables, which are the ligature/kern table and the extended character table. These tables are used only if ligature mode is activated in the program that selects these fonts, and the extended character table is then used when the ligature/kern table references it.
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21:12:18 <zzo38> Do you think it can be good?
21:13:57 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't see a point. just use the modern formats like otf. they can store graymap images, even though that rarely gets used these days, or just hinted vector fonts.
21:14:28 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I want nice fonts with gray pixels, they are better than bitmaps, only much harder to make
21:14:43 <wob_jonas> sure, pcf was nice back in the slow computers and small memory devices, but these days we can have better
21:14:45 <zzo38> I prefer pure bitmap fonts; to me, I think they look better than graymaps.
21:15:11 <wob_jonas> they look better than a lot of bad fonts, sure
21:16:42 <zzo38> However, my suggestion for the new version of X protocol anyways, that the protocol doesn't care about the file format used for fonts, although pcf is a recommended format, it can support other formats too if they want to. However, two flags must be selected by the client that selects the font, which are EnableLigatures and EnableAntialiasing.
21:17:25 <zzo38> Graymaps (or even full colours) can't be displayed if EnableAntialiasing is not set (in such case, it may hit to pure bitmaps instead), while astral Unicode characters won't be available if EnableLigatures is not set.
21:18:48 <zzo38> (If the server (or the font format) does not support those flags, they will simply be ignored, as though they aren't selected.)
21:20:08 <zzo38> I don't really like otf and that stuff, but this new proposed system nevertheless doesn't care and would be potentially capable of using them if you want to do.
21:21:23 <zzo38> Now do you think this one can be good?
21:23:33 <wob_jonas> you talked about this already. I answered that fonts are irrelevant for the X protocol these days. the X protocol just gets the client to map memory and graphics processor control for windows they have, and they do the rendering themselves in client-side stuff
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21:25:14 <zzo38> That can't work in case of remote clients though.
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21:37:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: it still can work. it's just slower because the rendered pixmap stuff has to get forwarded through the network. the X server still doesn't know about client-side font rendering then.
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21:39:28 <wob_jonas> remote X still more or less works on modern systems, just like other kinds of remote desktops
21:39:56 <int-e> for most modern programs it's a bandwidth hog.
21:40:50 <wob_jonas> you have to pay for transmitting fancy graphics
21:40:52 <int-e> Running things in Xvnc works much better. Or use xpra.
21:40:57 <wob_jonas> you can tone down the features in that case
21:41:27 <wob_jonas> but I don't really care about remote X
21:43:43 <int-e> I care a bit, though mostly for silly stuff. The main point is that I'm bandwidth limited at home, but not at work, so having a remote browser download stuff is convenient. And occasionally, links just doesn't do the trick and I resort to firefox in Xvnc.
21:45:17 <int-e> And since the point is to save bandwidth, having 10MB transfer just for getting the browser window displayed once isn't good either... that's the order of magnitude I'm observing with dumb X forwarding.
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22:18:14 <zzo38> I am making a program to render PC CGA screens (both text and graphics mode; both raw and BSAVE)
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22:46:55 <zzo38> Why does PC have its own cursor blink logic instead of using the 6845 cursor blink logic?
23:02:20 <int-e> I don't understand the question; from what I'm reading the text cursor *is* managed by the 6845 on CGA?
23:04:58 <zzo38> The cursor position is managed by 6845, but not the cursor blinking.
23:05:27 <zzo38> (This can be seen if you look at the schematics.)
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23:17:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53312&oldid=53159 * Challenger5 * (+79)
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23:21:42 <fungot> ATMunn: a meeting.) if any of the ena and affiliated and unaffiliated with wptf on many california pipelines that could have helped the state had an outstanding season, finishing the facility that we
23:22:06 <fungot> ATMunn: we end up the indemnity. aquila. 330853915 telex: inmarsat fax no. 713/ 646-7341 internal extension 33866 or kathy willard, vice president of the only one.
23:22:23 * ATMunn pokes fungot one last time
23:22:23 <fungot> ATMunn: on an isda schedule/ credit, for the lessor of 40, where the above mentioned questions of the california legislature the generators that have previously, in notice to members PHASH 01-333 ( http://www.nymex.com/ refernce/ notices/ 2001
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