2017-10-01: 00:02:38 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:03:35 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:04:33 In http://pbfcomics.com/ , in the bottom mosaic that seems at first as if it listed all strips, why isn't there a link to http://pbfcomics.com/comics/skub/ ? 00:05:26 And why does the link to http://pbfcomics.com/comics/harmony/ show the wrong thumbnail image? 00:13:32 Why does pasting a javascript: URI into the location bar when it is currently empty will cause it not to paste the scheme? 00:13:58 (If it is not empty it does paste the scheme, and if the scheme isn't javascript: then it also pastes the scheme) 00:15:02 zzo38: what browser is this? is it possible that the scheme is logically there but hidden in the display of the url bar? firefox hides https:// in the url bar these days, but it's still there and gets copied when you select the whole thing 00:15:26 it also hides most percent-escapes showing them as the character they represent, which is much worse IMO 00:15:41 Firefox. Also, it isn't logically there; if pasted and push return, it doesn't work! 00:16:08 there can be other reasons why it doesn't work 00:16:09 But about those other things hidden, I have gotten rid of them. I can show you the code I used to avoid hiding percent-escapes if you want it 00:16:37 wob_jonas: No, it really isn't logically there; if I paste it and then add "javascript:" in front, then it does work. 00:16:57 it's not so important that I'd start fixing it. firefox has other bad things, and I won't spend my time fixing them all, except for the really orst ones. 00:17:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:18:17 Yes, and I wrote a document about how to make a better kind 00:18:37 a better kind of what? 00:20:31 Of web browser program 00:20:49 thats easy 00:21:05 that's not for me. I want to make better software if I have time, but not browser. 00:21:08 let other people do that. 00:21:09 something better than firefox has become a weekend job as of today 00:21:11 blergh 00:22:03 and plugins can fix some of the more annoying things in firefox. they made every part pretty hookable. 00:22:05 But I used a code like this: if(location=="chrome://browser/content/browser.xul") window.losslessDecodeURI=x=>x.spec; 00:22:22 wob_jonas, they removed most hooks :( 00:22:27 Yes, I did add several extensions as well as userChrome.js with many of my own codes 00:22:37 I did not install the newer version with the removed most hooks 00:22:48 what? they removed hooks? when 00:23:05 fx57 does not support most of old XUL hooks 00:23:09 (This forces it to display percent encoding, I think, rather than the characters they represent) 00:23:10 and never will 00:23:37 i mean, hooray, it can do sidebars now, but... 00:23:38 :/ 00:24:10 I do think XPCOM is stupid, although I think XUL can be good (or something like it; HTML isn't as suitable here) 00:24:32 is it the hooks that people used a lot that they removed, or the ones that nobody used? 00:24:51 I have used userChrome.js to make a relative location bar feature. 00:25:12 they removed most ways to modify your UI, excluding "add things to the sidebar" and "add a new toolbar button" 00:25:31 userChrome.css is an inadequate replacement IMO 00:25:45 Cthulhux: Which isn't very good, as I have instead removed most toolbar buttons, rather than adding stuff. 00:25:54 wasn't a CSS always the normal way to modify the UI? 00:26:02 zzo38, their reason was "we need chrome compatibility" 00:26:06 * Cthulhux pukes 00:26:21 wob_jonas, no. 00:26:24 XUL was. 00:27:08 my firefox updated to 57 yesterday and i never hated using a computer so much in the last few decades-. 00:27:10 If the chrome window has IDs and classes and stuff suitable for CSS, then use of custom CSS codes should help somewhat, although still there are many things it will be no good at. 00:27:23 I disabled updates to Firefox to avoid stuff like that 00:27:58 you can write custom dialogs in HTML now, hooray. "dialogs", that is. no more access to firefox's own dialogs 00:28:16 also, AFAIR the API to execute external applications has been removed for good 00:28:24 "security" my ass 00:28:43 things like opendownload² and vimperator are pretty much dead now. 00:28:51 i seriously consider going back to pale moon. 00:29:12 I think the Node.js API is better for executing external applications and files anyways 00:29:25 (better than XPCOM, I mean) 00:29:42 Cthulhux: oh, so that's why the open-as extension was broken! 00:30:00 I thought it was broken because they started to require that all extensions have to be signed or something like that 00:30:08 Another thing I have done is actually hexediting one of the .so files, in order to remove support for HSTS. 00:30:23 wob_jonas, maybe. i wrote the OpenDownload² extension and i was reported that it does almost the same... yup, not possible anymore 00:30:41 crapzilla 00:31:34 this explains a lot 00:31:47 This is the document I wrote about how to make a better web browser program: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/web_browser 00:31:48 I noticed they broken some plugins, but I thought they broke them in some other way 00:32:54 something like vivaldi would be nice, but with a more flexible UI (= scriptable) 00:33:00 or qutebrowser with plugin support 00:33:02 :< 00:34:15 What you will think of the ideas I wrote? 00:34:51 The user is assumed to be an expert at the computer << :DD lovely 00:40:59 Is that all? 00:45:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:46:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:16 no objections _generally_. 00:49:34 -!- sleffy has joined. 00:50:39 Do you have an objection not-generally, or any suggestion, question, comment, complaint, etc? 00:51:55 i'm positive that the only relevant rule is "assumed to be an expert" because that will inevitably lead to most of the other features. 00:53:23 Maybe it does; I don't quite know. But it does seem like it can be possible. 01:00:46 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:51 Do you like farbfeld? 01:01:59 never tried 01:02:36 It's a fairly nice simple image format. 01:02:40 -!- imode has joined. 01:02:52 Bit niche, but it's handy if you're wanting to just write simple image filters or something. 01:03:06 Think where you'd use PBM, only... it sucks less. 01:04:49 Yes, I think so too, actually. Have you written any image filters (or converters) for use with farbfeld? 01:05:28 A couple, though they were just toys. 01:05:55 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:06:26 I have written many, and if you have any that I do not have, then it can be useful to add them too (or make a link) 01:09:07 Currently I have a NTSC decoder, but not a NTSC encoder. There is also no TV frame encoder/decoder. 01:09:35 (And it does not include a feature to find and use an existing colour burst signal to set the phase) 01:12:33 I think that the TV frame decoder program should take raw audio data (at a high but irrelevant sample rate, and also it isn't actually meant as audio) from stdin and produce a grey scale farbfeld picture on stdout, based on the retrace signals and so on that it finds, with specified framing options (such as in case you wish to include colour burst signal in output). 01:27:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:36:24 `date 01:36:25 Sun Oct 1 00:36:23 UTC 2017 01:37:18 `learn The password of the month is revolutionary 01:37:20 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is revolutionary 01:37:24 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:39:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:39:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:41:37 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 01:43:33 are we allowing random dudes on the wiki now... 01:48:01 Huh, the introductions page is pretty long. 01:49:13 oerjan: . o O ( do you like rotating passwords? ) 01:54:43 int-e: only on HackEgo hth 01:55:53 oh wait 01:56:00 * oerjan swats int-e -----### 02:04:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:14:31 Rotate your password 90° for an even hash 02:26:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:42:34 Ugh, I fell asleep when I didn't mean to and now I am tired but wide awake 02:42:43 Also it's quarter to three in the morning 02:42:48 Not the most fun time to be up 02:48:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:52:43 -!- doesthiswork has left. 02:53:07 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:01:36 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: never drink, kids). 03:12:33 -!- augur has joined. 03:17:01 oerjan: did you play Flood 03:17:12 or are you antediluvian twh 03:22:18 the tatham game? i usually don't play it more than a couple times when i get around to it. 03:23:29 * oerjan currently on Slant 04:04:15 Now I wrote the program to convert farbfeld into XBM, too 04:21:24 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:08:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:08:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:10:03 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 05:18:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:19:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:22:24 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 05:25:11 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:30:58 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:33:56 How do you classify the story of computer game: You are trying to go to Mornington Crescent but suddenly your wing broke and you fell down and got badly injured, and the only thing you have is a unloaded gun. But, this is ZZT, so there are magic diamonds that can help you! 05:43:56 -!- APic has joined. 06:09:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:12:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:57:45 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:58:08 -!- MDude has joined. 07:08:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:19:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:20:16 -!- Cale has joined. 07:53:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:58:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:08:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:26:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:29:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:35:33 So, last night I was trying to implement System F in Agda 09:36:11 I'm not sure I've got it right though 09:42:22 -!- zseri has joined. 10:11:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:12:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:40:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:42:14 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:44:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:08:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:41:55 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:25:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 12:30:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:33:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:26:57 -!- erkin has joined. 13:55:37 -!- boily has joined. 14:00:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:13:58 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jsteilberg * New user account 14:16:10 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53154&oldid=53153 * Jsteilberg * (+220) added my intro 14:16:53 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53155&oldid=53154 * Jsteilberg * (+13) 14:18:26 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53156&oldid=53155 * Jsteilberg * (+106) Is it four tildes to sign? Not really sure, sorry 14:21:54 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:37:39 -!- Melvar` has joined. 14:38:39 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:40:15 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:49:36 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:07:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:08:03 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:10:05 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:37:24 -!- sleffy has joined. 15:48:18 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:54:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:00:17 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: me). 16:02:13 -!- grumble has joined. 16:08:47 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:27:49 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:28:11 -!- Antoxyde has joined. 16:29:51 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 16:36:05 -!- zseri has joined. 16:53:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:21:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:33:09 -!- Guest65841 has changed nick to Slereah. 17:35:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:43:37 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:48:35 I remember once I used prompt().toString() in a bookmarklet code, I think (It seem strange, but it does work.) 17:48:50 javascript is really esoteric 17:52:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:07:59 Are you sure? 18:22:09 i am 18:23:44 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 18:25:06 OK 18:26:40 arcane, maybe, esoteric, not. 18:27:13 a language where you can never be sure if your comparison is true or false is probably rather esoteric 18:27:13 :x 18:27:45 Why are you not sure if the comparison is true or false? The rules for such thing in JavaScript look clearly enough to me 18:27:56 Cthulhux: you must be talking about PHP 18:28:09 https://charlieharvey.org.uk/page/javascript_the_weird_parts 18:28:15 php does *not* do that 18:28:51 bash: php: command not found 18:29:12 18:30:05 `php 18:30:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: php: not found 18:30:20 `rm -rf / 18:30:21 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'rm --help' for more information. 18:30:23 :{ 18:30:32 ok :( 18:30:51 `w QNKCDZO 18:30:53 That's not wise. 18:30:58 please don't try to destroy the sandbox. it has some safety guards but they aren't perfect. 18:31:02 `? QNKCDZO 18:31:04 QNKCDZO? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:31:40 also: bash: php: command not found << probably a bash issue. all of my powershell, ksh and tcsh systems know php! 18:31:47 have you considered to file a bug? :D 18:32:03 `` echo -n 240610708 | md5sum -; echo -n QNKCDZO | md5sum - 18:32:04 0e462097431906509019562988736854 - \ 0e830400451993494058024219903391 - 18:32:38 Cthulhux: nah I just don't use php at home :P 18:32:53 if anything it's a feature 18:32:58 i randomly maintain my old wordpress plugins 18:33:02 requires php 18:33:03 :/ 18:33:40 But somehow, I do have php at work. 18:36:25 in any case this was one surprising pitfall of magical comparisons... 18:50:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: VASCULAR CHICKEN). 18:53:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:53:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:55:19 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:05:30 -!- Antoxyde_ has joined. 19:06:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:07:24 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:07:59 -!- Antoxyde has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:14:23 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:14:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:18:36 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:24:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:26:39 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:49 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:56:41 I still think that some of the somewhat recent stuff in JavaScript is good stuff, such as typed arrays, generator functions, and arrow functions; I use that stuff. 19:57:18 javascript was never meant for actual programming 19:57:27 that becomes obvious these days 19:58:59 -!- imode has joined. 19:59:02 Well, I think it works for that though (sometimes; it depends on the program) 19:59:27 sure, you can write everything in any programming language if you just try hard enough 19:59:34 but you really should not. 20:06:00 I wrote a level editor for a DOS game once in JavaScript (mainly because the editor included with the game does not work correctly on DOSBOX, although on a true DOS computer it works OK) 20:06:18 i wrote a website in COBOL 20:06:25 i still can't recommend to do that 20:08:22 I do program in C as well 20:09:27 so do I. still less esoteric than javascript ^^ 20:13:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:17:53 This level editor is using SDL, although I also wrote a program in JavaScript to calculate the character points for a GURPS game, which only uses stdio 20:18:52 Do you know to play any GURPS game? 20:24:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:25:35 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:52:11 -!- imode has joined. 20:55:44 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:32:20 -!- Antoxyde_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:32:31 [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53157&oldid=50934 * Ivancr72 * (-192) 21:51:58 -!- boily has joined. 22:13:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:19:32 Is there any command in vim to allow syntax highlighting to be used on stuff that is displayed using the "lcs" option rather than only using SpecialKey and NonText highlighting? 22:34:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:44:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:52:00 -!- imode has joined. 23:08:04 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:09:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:12:58 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:18:09 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:20:15 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:49:19 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:52:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 2017-10-02: 00:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 00:00:21 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:05:14 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 00:10:26 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:14:46 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:18:38 fizzie: fizziello. the fungot has left :( 00:24:29 `5 w 00:24:35 1/2:betty crocker//Betty Crocker is a notorious gambler. \ manglophobia//Manglophobia is the fear of horribly mangled "Greek" neologisms. \ nth//nth is not that helpful \ s//Esses are confusing. \ ocean//The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. Th 00:25:24 `n 00:25:25 2/2:e Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. 00:25:26 -!- imode has joined. 00:37:14 [wiki] [[CJam-Flavored Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53158&oldid=52440 * Challenger5 * (+0) 01:01:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:09:43 [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53159&oldid=52467 * Challenger5 * (+762) 01:31:40 -!- fungot has joined. 01:42:21 * boily waves at fungot 01:42:21 boily: dromiceiomimus, i have a great idea, dromiceiomimus: stories for women 01:48:07 Our internet left. (And then came back.) 01:48:16 `? 01:48:18 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:48:24 `quote 01:48:25 834) elliott, mostly I want something that takes zero effort to maintain and update once the initial setup is done. okay well that is called not linux 01:55:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CAUGHT CHICKEN). 02:11:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:44:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:51:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:06:42 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: bye). 03:37:28 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:55:33 -!- fungot has joined. 04:32:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:16:48 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:48:49 -!- Antoxyde has joined. 06:07:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:42:11 -!- Antoxyde has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:26:21 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:54:20 -!- zseri has joined. 08:46:47 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:10:58 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:18:58 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:24:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:33:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:16 -!- sleffy has joined. 10:24:34 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:34:15 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:46:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:49:09 -!- tromp has joined. 11:30:07 Stupid thought: Windows renamed the Explorer program to File Explorer between Windows 7 and Windows 10, presumably because "Explorer" was too confusing: http://pbfcomics.com/comics/cave-explorer/ 11:34:26 -!- boily has joined. 11:49:28 https://www.xkcd.com/1897/ - they could outsource driving to twitch chat 11:50:32 also, I brought up this point about gamifying the AI task we want to solve for a work project, but my supervisor said no. 11:55:27 b_jonas: you mean like twitch plays pokemon? 11:55:27 heh 11:55:53 Vorpal: yes 11:56:50 well, it's possible that twitch chat isn't the best format for getting the driving input, but it could still be turned to a game through internet and twitch would popularize the game 11:57:35 twitch usually has a higher latency than you could get if you made a game that only people with a good enough net connection could play (or at least only people with a good net connection would give input that actually matters for driving the car) 12:15:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHED CHICKEN). 12:26:08 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:30:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:06:37 -!- erkin has joined. 13:11:25 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:31:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:50:19 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:00:48 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:20:27 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:43:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:01:08 `ftoc 140 15:01:09 140.00°F = 60.00°C 15:26:52 -!- zseri has joined. 15:27:30 Apparently there was a mass shooting with over 50 people dead yesterday in Las Vegas. 15:27:47 no wait, not in Last Vegas, but somewher else in Nevada 15:28:01 close 15:49:53 hehe. http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gzip/gzip-1.8.tar.xz 15:54:27 int-e: they also have a tar.gz at the same place 15:54:30 for the same version 15:55:19 I know. 15:55:41 Which is also funny but in a different way. 15:56:15 you'd think they'd have uncompressed source 15:56:20 given the purpose of gzip 15:56:48 this reminds me of the time I wrote a version of uudecode using only printable characters… 15:57:21 (more specifically, I wrote an encoder similar to uuencode that produced executables as output; you could run this on uudecode itself in order to get uudecode onto a system that didn't have it) 15:57:25 ais523: yeah, but on the other hand, you also can't bootstrap building a shell without having a shell, and can't build a C compiler if you don't have a C compiler, and compared to either of those, gzip is much more well spread 15:57:43 -!- danil has joined. 15:58:02 b_jonas: C compilers should be provided as executables for that reason (and commonly are) 15:58:13 in addition to the source form 15:58:18 ais523: also, zlib is likely literally the software that's installed in the most places, and it's not that hard to write gzip from libc; 15:58:22 s/libc/zlib/ 15:58:41 building a shell with no shell could be tricky, perhaps you could do it via repeatedly rebooting the system and setting the compiler, linker, etc. as init 15:58:47 plus there's also a very portable gzip decompressor at https://pts.50.hu/muzcat-mini-latest.tar.gz 15:59:01 which is much more limited and slower than gzip, but still works 15:59:15 (note that this is pretty much just theoretical; you're unlikely to have a working compiler and linker but no working shell) 15:59:18 and you're most likely to have a decompressor that understands gzip than a program that understands that version of tar too 15:59:26 ais523: that's not TRUE 15:59:44 ais523: people have problems with building very portable programs on windows because it's hard to find a suitable shell to run the build scripts 15:59:53 this is for C programs that are very portable so they're easy to build 15:59:55 seriously 15:59:57 Windows has a working shell, though (two, in fact) 16:00:08 it's just that the programs in question have build scripts written for a different dialect of shellscript 16:00:10 you also need a gnu make, but gnu make provides a shell script to build itself without needing any make first 16:00:25 ais523: yes, that's why I say a posix-like shell 16:00:28 whatcha talking about? 16:00:30 besides you could probably just build it with aimake 16:00:32 not specifically bash, but nothing windows-like 16:00:43 danil: trying to build build tools without having the build tool itself in advance 16:01:05 complicated 16:01:35 what I don't like is how 7-zip now only distributes the latest versions of its source code in 7-zip and self-extracting 7-zip formats, and the self-extracting part runs only on windows (you can extract it with a 7zip program anywhere), 16:01:36 I guess an OS missing build tools is something of an esolang in its own right 16:01:37 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:01:42 it has commands but not the ones you actually wanted 16:01:53 despite that the source code has the command-line version that works on unices too 16:02:02 at least 7zip works 16:02:05 in previous versions, they used to distribute the source code as bzip2 16:02:14 or as zip or something 16:02:25 I assume Debian still distributes it as xz or something? 16:02:40 ais523: probably something like that, I don't know how they compress their programs 16:02:48 RAR and other zip utilities understand 7zip format 16:02:50 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:03:24 also, if anyone wants, I can give you all parts of 7-zip packed in whatever reasonable format you want 16:03:33 I actually have zip versions of some of what they distrubute 16:03:43 what about unreasonable formats? 16:04:00 those are the windows executables, I keep them just in case 16:04:08 they should distribute the source code in zip format 16:04:44 clearly it should be distributed as an uncompressed shar 16:04:45 ais523: I can provide some unreasonable formats too, but not just any unreasonable format 16:04:46 that was reasonable once 16:04:51 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil). 16:04:55 and I'm pretty sure I used it for something as a joke at one point, possibly C-INTERCAL 16:05:11 oh, hmm, maybe I posted a new version of C-INTERCAL to Usenet directly for tradition's sake? 16:05:19 it's the sort of thing I'd do 16:05:36 -!- danil has joined. 16:06:11 7ZIP works on my Ubuntu. 16:07:11 BTW, whats a 'hypercide' 16:07:33 Sorry, BTW whats a 'hypercube' 16:07:35 danil: yes, that's p7zip, 7zip's own command-line port to linux, which works almost the same as their windows command-line version 16:07:44 works more or less decently but with a horrible user interface 16:07:52 danil: a hypercube is a 4 (or more)-dimensional generalization of a cube 16:07:52 developped by the 7-zip devs themselves 16:07:58 `? hypercube 16:07:59 hypercube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:12 you can think of a cube as being two squares, with corresponding corners connected 16:08:25 that's fairly easy to visualise because humans are used to both 2D and 3D 16:08:34 'Welcome to the international hyper cube for esoteric languages' 16:08:37 but the two squares are in separate 2D planes 16:08:57 oh, I was wrong! 16:09:10 so a hypercube is that a dimension higher up; you get two 3D cubes in separate 3D spaces (think parallel universes or the like), and then connect all the corners 16:09:13 they provide the source code of the unix command-line version at least as bz2 16:09:16 err, corresponding corners 16:09:19 also the channel topic here is rarely serious 16:09:24 it's only the windows version that they only provide as 7zip and msi currently 16:09:27 I think someone wrote "hypercube" rather than "IRC channel" as a joke 16:09:33 OK, this is NOT a geometry IRC channel! 16:09:50 they should provide the standalone windows command-line version as a zip, so you can easily use it without admin privilages 16:09:53 but still 16:09:54 it's not as bad as I thought 16:09:54 No one understands IRC jokes. 16:09:56 the standard topic is something along the lines of "welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment" 16:10:29 but people have a tendency to change it due to messing around and not enough people are inclined to change it back 16:10:41 -!- ais523 has set topic: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf. 16:10:51 -!- ais523 has set topic: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf. 16:10:52 actually, better 16:10:56 ais523: it seems like 7-zip is careful, they made sure the source code for the unix command-line version is written in C (not C++) and all source files have 8.3 filenames, so I can provide it in quite a few unreasonable formats of old dos compressor programs nobody even remembers anymore 16:11:05 what's 7zip got to do with build tools. 7zip's a decompressor 16:11:05 I don't think we've had this one before and it's actually /more/ precise than the usual topic 16:11:21 danil: if the source code you're trying to build is in .7z format 16:11:24 like, say, 7zip's is 16:11:38 Oh... 16:12:05 ais523: I would like to note that xz actually distributes pre-built DOS binaries though 16:12:10 I never actually looked at 7zips source code 16:12:27 b_jonas: neat 16:12:31 danil: this channel can drift to off-topic sometimes 16:12:32 how much demand is there for DOS binaries of NetHack, btw? 16:12:43 our current DOS maintainer has disappeared and I'm wondering if I should try to take over 16:12:47 b_jonas: WOW! 16:13:10 whatz nethack? 16:13:11 but yes, I stayed away from this channel for months because I disliked how offtopic it had gotten 16:13:16 ais523: I don't know. I have a custom DOS binary for the joe-editor that I can distribute. It's not perfect, but I used it for text editing a lot. 16:13:18 danil: computer game, famous for being old and portable 16:13:32 ais523: it's famous for being portable? I didn't know of that 16:13:45 b_jonas: well it runs on a huge number of platforms, especially if you take older versions 16:13:46 ais523: I dont understand computer games 16:14:04 people who have an old computer with an unusual OS and want to play a game on it often send us questions about what version they can run on it 16:14:19 I thought old programs from back then just (a) had to do that out of necessity, and (b) are automatically portable because everyone implements the few thousand functions those old programs used from the old BSD libc or whatever, including crazy ones like index. 16:14:22 danil: they're basically a way to practice skills in a controlled environment, while having fun 16:14:46 ais523: wait, they often send you (as in the devteam) questions, really? 16:14:48 some games train skills like reaction time and coordination, others about more mental skills like planning andp uzzle solving 16:15:02 if they do, then yes, it is notable for being portable 16:15:17 I mean, i dont put my head into the games.(And in the cloud) 16:15:19 b_jonas: yes, one of our most common sorts of email (that isn't a bug report) is "can you recommend a version of NetHack that I can play on my «insert old computer system here»?" 16:15:41 Are you a NetHack dev? 16:15:43 ais523: I guess that could be true, after all, someone wondered about a port to that old nokia personal organizer 16:15:49 danil: yes 16:16:21 How is that linked with esoteric programming languages? 16:17:06 danil: porting programs to old systems is an eso-programming topic already, but this channel often drifts off-topic too 16:17:11 well, the release of NetHack 3.6.0 only came about as a consequence of the existence of INTERCAL 16:17:14 but that's mostly just coincidence 16:17:27 Yep. This channel gets offtopic all the time 16:18:02 and it was a fairly long dependency chain (although still a clear one that's possible to trace) 16:18:03 the esoteric title changed! 16:18:19 yep 16:18:32 those things are fairly easy to change 16:18:41 Did you change it? 16:18:44 yes 16:18:53 Thanks. 16:18:58 danil: also, if you look at nethack's source code in detail, you'll see it looks sort of like eso-programming now, even though the practices it uses made sense back when it was developped, and it's a lot of work to rewrite it. 16:19:03 it'll probably be changed to something else by tomorrow, though, knowing this channel 16:19:20 b_jonas: IMO it'd be great if the game itself were Turing-complete, but I'm fairly sure it isn't 16:19:21 tempting. 16:19:35 Oh, hi int-e! 16:19:53 fungot: say something? 16:19:53 int-e: you look: poorly drawn 16:20:01 fungot: thanks so much 16:20:01 int-e: a new day dawns... 16:20:11 ^style 16:20:11 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube 16:20:20 fungot is a bot written in Befunge 16:20:20 ais523: all that means is that if a building? it is the east, and plagiarism is 16:20:42 it has a few functions, one of the main ones is trying and failing to say something intelligible in response to people mentioning its name 16:20:44 fungot: say your source code out loud 16:20:44 danil: i've never been to the bottom of a bottle. 16:20:58 ^source 16:20:58 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 16:21:13 ^source 16:21:13 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 16:21:17 danil: fungot doesn't actually know English, so you have to express it in a language fungot does understand 16:21:17 ais523: t-rex, i left a party early to go have a bath, and there i don't feel like i look down and notice you're not there 16:21:47 fungot: What language do you speak? 16:21:47 danil: to turn back time and live again with your sweetie! i'm sure one will look for them, i have come up with a " i have lots, probably! if not, we can make the cutest cards ever for a series of puns. 16:22:11 Oh, a buisness deal with a bot!? 16:22:16 ^ul (Underload! ):*:*:*S 16:22:16 Underload! Underload! Underload! Underload! Underload! Underload! Underload! Underload! 16:22:27 also brainfuck but it's harder to write programs in that quickly 16:22:38 `! bf_txtgen brainfuck! 16:22:39 what is Underload 16:22:42 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload 16:22:44 105 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>>.<++.>-.>+++++++.+++++.<+++++.<+++.>---.>---.>+++++.-. [171] 16:22:55 Hi, HackEgo 16:23:17 hackego is our main esoteric programming language interpretation bot 16:23:28 although people normally use it for messing around rather than for actually running esolang programs 16:23:29 Oh. 16:23:38 I wanted to ask some vague questions about esoteric language development, in a rubber duck style. 16:23:39 How do you use him? 16:23:55 to interpret an esolang, you type `! then the language name then the program 16:24:00 ^ul(Hi!):*:*:*S 16:24:07 need a space 16:24:12 after ^ul 16:24:29 ^ul (Hi!):*:*:*S 16:24:29 Hi!Hi!Hi!Hi!Hi!Hi!Hi!Hi! 16:24:48 !brainfuck +- 16:24:58 +- doesn't produce any visible output 16:25:06 also you'd need `! brainfuck +- 16:25:12 `! brainfuck +[.+] 16:25:13 ​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/brainfuck: not found 16:25:17 err, need a cell width 16:25:20 `! bf8 +[.+] 16:25:21 ​. \ 16:25:33 ! bf8 +[.++] 16:25:43 you missed the ` 16:25:56 `! bf8 +[.++] 16:25:57 ​. 16:26:02 Suppose I have a simple core esoteric language, which doesn't have much IO facilities, plus a standard library, which can have optional parts, for doing IO. The library has an interface that matches the language features, so you could give the same interface as the library functions have if you wrote those functions in that language based implemented from any reasonable other IO facilities, built-in or otherwise. 16:26:13 Yeh.. 16:26:25 Sort of like how C has a core language with not much IO facilities, plus a standard library, only this one is esoteric. 16:26:31 ok.. 16:26:34 `! bf8 +++++[->++++++<]>++[.+] 16:26:34 ​ !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ 16:26:46 What was that for? 16:26:55 danil: trying to produce useful output with a fairly short program 16:27:03 ^source 16:27:03 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 16:27:11 The core language is rather simple, which I like. Would it ruin the beauty of that simplicity to provide such an IO library? 16:27:21 Ok... 16:27:30 although I don't get why it doesn't start with space 16:27:44 ais523: I think it does 16:27:48 ye... 16:27:56 it starts with ​ !" for me 16:28:07 anyway, I have a meeting now, bye everyone 16:28:14 Bye 16:28:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 16:28:19 ais523: right, there's a space after the header hackego always ouputs to avoid triggering other bots 16:28:35 Ok. 16:28:44 I need Lunch. Bye 16:28:56 Quit: lunch 16:29:20 Done. 16:29:35 Now what programming language fungot uses? 16:29:35 danil: and in the book, i tell people that the key to a good diet! she never did in the past. now i'll have that one, the one on a boat can float along for years without crew or sails or a working knowledge, you can never again be able to look in a mirror 16:29:58 hey, how do i disable f***** 16:30:22 danil: it's implemented in befunge. you can write macros for it in brainfuck and underload. 16:32:00 I mean, who made fungoat 16:32:14 fungot cannot be disabled, but you can sneak invisible characters in and confuse it. 16:32:29 how do i do that 16:32:40 it's fizzie's creation I believe. 16:33:01 fungоt <- unicode is also an option 16:33:07 how many bots are their? 16:33:13 `unidecode о 16:33:14 ​[U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O] 16:33:40 `unidecode ao 16:33:40 ​[U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] 16:33:44 `prefixes 16:33:46 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . 16:33:55 not all of those are still here 16:34:03 whos lambdabot? 16:34:17 > [1..] 16:34:19 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... 16:34:22 EgoBot ! 16:34:35 >[23..] 16:34:51 spacenotoptional 16:35:03 Huh? 16:35:15 >[2..] 16:35:19 > [23..] 16:35:22 [23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,... 16:35:29 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:35:39 > [24..] 16:35:41 [24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,... 16:35:50 YES! 16:36:03 whos jbot 16:36:04 > fix ((0:) . scanl (+) 1) 16:36:06 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,... 16:36:28 what programming language is THAT! 16:36:59 Haskell. 16:37:17 ohhhhhh! Why Haskell in esolang? 16:37:34 @metar lowi 16:37:34 LOWI 021520Z 26007KT 9999 -RA FEW080 SCT100 BKN150 17/11 Q1019 NOSIG 16:37:43 this, and it relays messages 16:37:47 what is that 16:37:54 @google metar 16:37:56 https://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/ 16:38:08 @metar ohh 16:38:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METAR is more useful, I guess 16:38:40 @metar pirr 16:38:40 No result. 16:38:50 you need to provide an ICAO airport code 16:38:53 @metar PIR 16:39:22 BTW, WHAT DID @METAR LOWI DO? 16:39:30 @metar kpir 16:39:30 KPIR 021453Z AUTO 31003KT 10SM CLR 11/08 A2985 RMK AO2 SLP108 T01060078 51012 16:39:54 WHY IS METAR NEEDED? 16:40:04 @metar RAP 16:40:07 because everybody likes talking about the weather. 16:40:23 what does that message do? 16:40:38 @metar rap 16:40:52 @metar LAS 16:41:00 icao has four letter codes. 16:41:41 For most US airpoirts it's K followed by the IATA code, I believe. 16:41:55 @metar KLAS 16:41:55 KLAS 021456Z 36015G25KT 330V030 10SM FEW180 20/M06 A2980 RMK AO2 SLP071 T02001061 51028 16:42:22 what does the above message from lambdabot mean? 16:42:54 @metar KRAP 16:42:54 KRAP 021452Z 32005KT 10SM SCT039 BKN046 08/05 A2990 RMK AO2 SLP132 T00780050 53014 16:43:07 @metar KSFC 16:43:07 it's 20°C, very dry, windy... 16:43:07 No result. 16:43:26 How did you parse it? 16:43:34 The 20/M06 part is temperature and dewpoint. 16:43:42 anyway, see the METAR wikipedia page 16:43:52 I better do 16:44:04 @google metar 16:44:05 https://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/ 16:44:17 @wikipedia metar 16:44:17 Unknown command, try @list 16:44:22 @list 16:44:22 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 16:45:25 quit: reading longggggg wiki page 16:45:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:45:59 @METAR SFRUN 16:45:59 Unknown command, try @list 16:46:13 @metar SFRUN 16:46:27 whats the code for Russia? 16:48:11 @metar UCFM 16:48:11 UCFM 021530Z 12005MPS 8000 BKN066CB 11/07 Q1011 R26/CLRD70 NOSIG 16:48:42 @metar oss 16:48:54 @metar UOSS 16:48:54 No result. 16:49:00 @metar OSS 16:50:23 @metar UAFG 16:50:23 No result. 16:50:31 @metar UAFG 16:50:31 No result. 16:50:43 tHAT IS A AIRPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 16:52:12 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil). 16:53:03 -!- danil has joined. 16:53:14 @metar UAFS 16:53:14 No result. 16:54:04 @metar UUEE 16:54:04 UUEE 021530Z 07002MPS 9999 OVC017 04/02 Q1032 R24R/CLRD62 R24L/CLRD62 NOSIG 17:05:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:07:30 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:13:15 -!- Antoxyde has joined. 17:16:51 HI 17:19:29 fungot <- unicode 17:19:30 danil: in a good story, they function in an undiagnosable way? i could have this hyper-evolved speaking that could convince anyone to do whatever i want!! 17:19:41 fungot 17:19:41 danil: hey, i have unfocused, but at the end, to ask me what my favourite suffix. 17:19:59 fungot: Really? 17:23:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:23:27 fungot: say something? 17:24:06 ^style nethack 17:24:06 Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) 17:24:26 fungot Hi 17:24:38 ^ hi 17:24:51 ^ul (hi!) 17:25:03 nethack 17:26:29 @metar KRAP 17:26:30 KRAP 021552Z 35007KT 10SM FEW046 08/05 A2990 RMK AO2 SLP133 T00780050 17:30:41 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil). 17:34:32 -!- danil has joined. 17:35:11 PDFs from professional organizations that still read "Microsoft Word - whatever.doc" as their title... Why 17:39:08 You want a S in that ul. 17:39:09 ^ul (hi!)S 17:39:09 hi! 17:39:28 There's also a thing where it only answers one person at most three or four times in a row, to stop loops. 17:41:01 fizzie: hi 17:41:20 fizzie: how are you? any new panoramas? 17:42:08 fizzie: thanks! 17:42:21 ^ul(hi!)S 17:42:39 ^ul (hi!)S 17:42:39 hi! 17:42:49 fizzie: I have taken some (using the built in function on the phone) but I have not yet uploaded it anywhere 17:43:20 ^ <-unicode 17:43:56 whatcha talkin` about 17:44:01 -!- Antoxyde has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:44:32 ^ul (hi!)S*:*:* 17:44:32 hi! ...out of stack! 17:45:03 j-bot 17:45:10 j-bot: hi 17:45:11 danil: |value error: hi 17:45:21 jb: help 17:45:33 jbot: help 17:45:55 j-bot: help 17:45:56 danil: |value error: help 17:46:12 j-bot: 2*2 17:46:13 danil: 4 17:46:22 fizzie: Apparently the jpeg is 47 MB huh 17:46:44 What are you talking about? 17:47:01 j-bot: 2*2% 17:47:02 danil: |syntax error 17:47:02 danil: | 2 *2% 17:48:48 j-bot: 2*2*2*2*2 17:48:49 danil: 32 17:49:20 Oh, manager... 17:49:43 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil). 17:49:46 Vorpal: Mm, probably, but I don't have a list anywhere. I've been mostly defaulting to using the phone's built-in thing as well. I had that home-built panorama head for the previous Sorta-Real Camera, but it doesn't fit the Real Camera. 17:50:26 fizzie: I went to a nature reserve that was a previous forest fire area (big forest fire) a couple of years ago. Very different nature 17:50:38 Should upload some pictures somewhere. Dropbox may work 17:50:44 -!- danil has joined. 17:51:13 Vorpal: We went to Scotland again this summer, I'm sure I took some photos there. 17:51:23 j-bot: 1112234578*11111111 17:51:24 danil: 12358161854196158 17:52:04 * danil HI 17:52:53 Is'nt this channel offtop 17:53:04 always 17:53:08 not always 17:53:29 Often, though. 17:53:37 b_jonass 17:53:45 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit). 17:54:46 fizzie: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ie7mmypeovlr1n2/AADV2B4P4Kd66X_HXXbDI-T2a?dl=0 17:55:22 -!- danil has joined. 17:56:16 fizzie: hopefully I shared in the proper way. I think dropbox redesigned the interface or something, doesn't work like I remember it 17:56:54 I have a little ontop question 17:57:02 danil: sure, what is it? 17:57:21 Why are esolangs needed?# 17:57:40 danil: why is any hobby needed? 17:58:11 so esolangs are hobbies. I met a dev who used esolangs to get money. 17:58:33 ...how? 17:58:43 I think they can be educational as well 17:59:19 You can learn about computing in the restricted domain of esolangs. Or learn to write a compiler more easily than for a real language. 17:59:37 -!- imode has joined. 18:00:03 So, his manager gave him Money per line of code. To make a simple program he got a esolang which a) obfuscated his code b) was longer then even java 18:00:32 Sounds to me you don't need a different language for that. 18:00:38 Anyway, by one of the popular definitions, if practical use is the primary intention, it isn't an esolang. 18:00:50 How our wiki puts it is: "An esoteric programming language, or esolang, is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use." 18:00:53 huh. Well obviously his manager doesn't understand good coding practice. Also that is a shitty way to get paid 18:00:55 Vorpal: Whatever you did seems to have worked. Looks nice. Not that different from some parts of Finland. 18:01:09 fizzie: all the trees are dead. Forest fire. 18:01:23 Acttually, a Brainf interpreter is easier to make than a BASIC one 18:01:27 fizzie: it is not that they lost their leaves for the winter 18:01:52 fizzie: the landscape felt kind of spooky. Lots of signs about increased risk of falling trees and such. 18:02:13 danil: indeed! so good for education to learn the basics of interpreter writing 18:02:26 optimising brainfuck compiler is quite interesting too 18:02:26 correct. 18:02:29 I would prefer to be the payment by a fixed amount, regardless of how large it is or how much time it takes, assuming the program is good. 18:02:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:03:28 Well, what do Water Supply managers now about Coding & computers. A misterious box with weird lamps. 18:03:48 hah 18:04:22 BTW, it was a anecdote from a guy's forum. Could be true, though 18:04:33 I prefer the way I work. Paid a fixed monthly salary and having a reasonably secure job (i.e. not just for a single project) 18:04:58 I also. Only i am a student not a adult. 18:05:38 I think pay one fixed amount per project is better, rather than per month or per hour or whatever 18:06:03 Both of you are right i n some way 18:06:14 zzo38: only if you work on a project basis, as supposed to continued development of a large product 18:06:32 OK. 18:07:00 Vorpal: told you this channel goes offtop 18:07:29 danil: yes I only said: danil> Is'nt this channel offtop always not always 18:07:41 I never disputed "sometimes" or even "often" 18:08:51 danil: mind you, it isn't as if we are interrupting some on topic stuff that is going on at the same time 18:09:45 Sorry. I always do that 18:10:10 Ahhhh! My IRC clien is slowwing down.... 18:10:13 always do what? 18:10:22 huh 18:10:29 bad internet? 18:10:32 Be to dramatic 18:10:49 Na, Buggy Linux + Buggy IRC 18:11:17 Ubuntu is slow 18:11:26 using ubuntu atm. Ubuntu LTS 18:11:30 on a core 2 duo laptop 18:11:33 works fine 18:11:42 upgraded it with an SSD, but that is it 18:11:47 Ubuntu 17.04 Acer Aspire V5 18:11:49 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:12:05 I hate LTS. I'm bleeding edge 18:12:09 danil: 16.04 LTS, Thinkpad from ~2009 18:12:25 oh you would hate what I run on my desktop 18:12:29 Debian stable 18:12:45 What? 18:12:47 also you should totally use arch or gentoo then. Probably arch 18:13:07 "what" in response to what? 18:13:22 I use OpenSuSe(12) on my Desktop 18:13:43 Vorpal: Are you a GPL activist? 18:13:53 yeah I like debian stable and ubuntu lts. Means it just works except when I upgrade every two or three years. 18:14:10 no, but I used GPL for my own befunge-98 interpreters 18:14:20 LTS for me is too stable... 18:14:28 I like crashing Linux 18:14:39 actually this LTS has some annoying bugs with the old intel graphics of this laptop 18:15:01 specifically the on resume from suspend chrome starts flickering black. Firefox is fine 18:15:04 I'm a Beer Liscence Activist. Like BSD liscense also 18:15:13 I LOVE FIREFOX. 18:15:26 I always use AMD 18:15:41 meh, they are just browsers. As long as they can run scriptmonkey and stylish, whatever 18:16:08 (greasemonkey/tampermonkey, depending on browser) 18:16:52 -!- Remavas has joined. 18:16:54 Yeah. Suppose your right. I Just installed a new IRC client called Polari. Everything does not work 18:17:02 now 18:17:08 danil: I use hexchat. I used xchat before that. 18:17:18 it just works 18:17:39 I don't want to spend all my time making computers work. I rather be productive with them. 18:18:00 I couldnt configure hexchat. It was confusing. I now just use the Ubuntu Chat app 18:18:13 really? huh 18:18:30 Ubuntu Chat just works 18:18:45 At least for now 18:18:53 ubuntu chat? what is that? 18:19:14 Chat Application 18:19:30 well duh, but what is it based on? Pidgin? 18:19:43 Mind you I run ubuntu and debian with MATE. Not a fan of the default ubuntu unity thing 18:19:59 thought ubuntu bundled pidgin 18:20:06 Nah. More quicker and agile. I am using KDE with Unity apps 18:20:50 Chat is quicker than a pidgeon. Pidgeon's are slow and dangerous 18:20:57 eh, this hardware couldn't handle that 18:21:23 I actually run cinamon on my desktop, instead of mate. Switched when upgrading debian most recently 18:21:30 I just installed kubuntu-desktop through terminal.# 18:21:52 I am a KDE fanatic. 18:22:03 danil: the GUI is just a terminal multiplexer for most of what I do. 18:22:13 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil). 18:22:46 <\oren\_> Vorpal: that's why I use the most minimal (in terms of resources) gui i can 18:22:57 <\oren\_> so, LXDE or XFCE 18:23:22 \oren\_: there are enough GUI programs I use. Image editing, web browser, IDEs. That sort of stuff. 18:23:32 i3wm with a random assortment of programs 18:24:40 could probably work just as well as MATE, LXDE or XFCE yes 18:25:01 Just the inertia of learning a new system, when the keyboard shortcuts are ingrained in your fingers 18:25:02 <\oren\_> for a while i was using two computers. one that didn't run a desktop at all, which i dialed into from the other, which was running puppy linux 18:26:33 bbl 18:28:01 -!- danil has joined. 18:28:09 Everyone calls me a greybeard 18:28:47 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit). 18:29:02 -!- danil has joined. 18:29:10 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit). 18:29:15 <\oren\_> danil: being a greybeard pays well doesn't it 18:43:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:53:00 -!- danil has joined. 18:53:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:53:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:53:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:54:19 THE GUI IS A TERMMINAL MULTIPLEXER 18:54:36 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit). 19:08:12 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:08:48 <\oren\_> Vorpal: that's why I use the most minimal (in terms of resources) gui i can << twm? 19:09:03 because everything other than twm uses more resources. 19:09:17 {yes, even that shiny i3wm} 19:09:41 * Cthulhux is still considering between stumpwm and windowmaker 19:10:03 those gnome wannabes are too apple'ish 19:10:41 also: Ahhhh! My IRC clien is slowwing down.... < write your own one :D 19:10:56 have you considered running without a window manager... 19:11:12 (no, I'm not really serious, but it does seem to be a valid question ;-) ) 19:11:18 a TTY is not a minimal GUI! 19:11:24 because it's not a GUI :x 19:12:28 Cthulhux: you can run X without a window manager 19:12:35 i should look up if i3wm uses more ressources than herbstluft 19:12:36 you'll end up placing everything manually though 19:13:01 because, uh, placing and optionally decorating windows is one of the main tasks of window managers. 19:13:03 i3wm *does* use more resources than twm. 19:13:52 and by "placing manually" I mean passing -geometry options to everything. 19:20:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:21:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:23:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:33:40 -!- imode has joined. 19:41:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:41:31 I currently use i3wm, but may later write my own. 19:44:57 don't. 19:45:15 i mean, you'll learn a lot, but: don't. :D there are too many WMs already. 19:45:47 (i miss the good old times when everyone wrote text editors, not wms..) 19:48:37 <\oren\_> speaking of which I need to finish my text editor 19:49:41 :D 19:50:30 i need to finish my xmarks alternative. and my gopher client. and my irc client. and my text editor. and my reddit bot. and my two file managers. 19:50:32 i won. 19:51:08 I'm pretty sure zzo38 is winning the local vapourware contest. 19:51:44 you don't know the list of projects i haven't even STARTED yet! 19:52:05 Then again, maybe Feather counts for a dozen ordinary vapourware projects. 19:53:20 int-e: it's in an earlier stage than vapourware 19:53:34 vapourware normally has the advantage of at least being known to be theoretically possible to write 20:03:19 -!- HackEgo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:03:38 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:10:19 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:07 No, I might write a window manager. That way I can learn how it is working, but also just to put the stuff I wanted (I don't need all of the features of i3, and is also missing some thing I wanted), but also just in case I want to do some day, I might or might not I don't know. You can use X without a window manager, which can be useful if you only need one window, I suppose. 20:13:48 What is your xmarks alternative, gopher client, irc client, and others, aredoing what? I wrote a IRC client already and more than one gopher client 20:14:07 (What is xmarks anyways?) 20:15:52 *googles* a bookmarks manager with synchronisation facilities? 20:19:32 Anyways I do not use the i3 menu, nor the status bar it comes with; I wrote my own status bar program for use with i3bar, and just use the command shell in xterm if I want to start other programs, so xterm and xrefresh are the only programs I have added keybindings to start them. 20:20:17 int-e: yup, but without restriction to one browser 20:20:34 synching the built-in browser bookmarks 20:20:42 nothing else does that and xmarks sucks 20:20:43 :x 20:21:00 zzo38, why use i3 then? 20:21:04 I also added a program to display the process ID and window ID if the title is clicked with the right button. 20:21:39 Cthulhux: Well, the i3 menu and i3status are separate programs from i3wm anyways, and I have not installed those other programs. Mainly it is just the closest thing to what I wanted and is suitable for now. 20:21:49 hmm 20:22:20 i found i3wm too over-hyped 20:23:37 To use bookmarks outside of the browser though I just wrote a shell script which executes SQL queries to do it, although only with one browser; still, with the same SQL queries I can add them to work with Lynx and so on too rather than only Firefox if I wanted to, easily enough. 20:25:40 Do you think this look good enough to you or don't? 20:26:12 Why do you need two file managers? 20:27:10 one as a clone of windows 3.11's good old fileman.exe (it was better than young people think) 20:27:20 one as a better tc/mc/far manager/whatever 20:27:21 :) 20:28:10 Do you mean like a orthodox file manager? 20:28:31 pretty much, yes 20:28:57 i mainly use them on windows, but the one of my choice (currently, speedcommander) still lacks some features *for me* 20:29:07 so i thought it would be easy 20:29:11 spoiler: it wasn't 20:29:24 I hardly used fileman.exe when I used Windows 3.1 20:29:31 pretty much just for creating directories 20:29:39 i used fileman a lot on windows 9x 20:29:41 nearly always I opened files via File|Open in the program that read them 20:29:45 better than crapplorer 20:30:01 it actually still would be, if win10 would support 16-bit applications 20:30:01 :/ 20:30:25 it had dual panels! 20:30:33 I use Linux and do not use any file manager, since, can just using the command shell 20:30:34 something microsoft thought nobody would want anymore 20:30:56 hmm wasn't it basically a graphical norton commander 20:30:59 i can use "the command shell" on windows too (the powershell is actually rather handy), but i don't want to :D 20:31:13 * int-e forgot 20:31:57 int-e: http://www.mi.uni-koeln.de/c/mirror/www.igd.fhg.de/www/grz/mswin/awfntdev/fileman.gif 20:32:04 <3 lovely 20:32:14 no bullshit, just file management. 20:32:20 zzo38: I normally use a shell on Linux for file management 20:32:29 ok, and a WinZip plugin on the screenshot 20:32:31 sometimes I use Nautilus, though 20:33:03 Cthulhux: oh I see, it had the tree part... yes I miss that as well. 20:33:15 *sigh* 20:33:16 . o O ( it's still there in regedit ;-) ) 20:33:34 i have a half-working version ready 20:33:36 in delphi :x 20:33:43 no menus yet. 20:34:08 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:34:17 (ha, on-topic! because who still uses delphi, except me?) 20:34:45 I sometimes use QuickBASIC for writing DOS programs 20:35:38 (Including MIXPC, which is mentioned on the esolang wiki article about MIX (Knuth), because it is an implementation of that instruction set.) 20:36:02 why did they discontinue borland pascal for windows anyway? 20:36:28 freepascal works 20:37:27 Is there a free compiler for DOS that will work in real mode? 20:37:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:40:51 for which language? 20:40:53 I put on my computer on the status bar, the number of email messages, the system load, the memory usage, and the current date/time. I did not put temperature because I do not have a driver for it. 20:41:15 Cthulhux: BASIC, although a different programming language might do too 20:41:16 zzo38: do you want the compiler itself to run on DOS real mode? or do you want its /output/ to run on DOS real mode? 20:41:39 FASM? 20:41:53 ais523: The output program. I would want the compiler also to, but if it doesn't, it could be OK as long as the output program does run on real mode. 20:43:23 developing programs under DOS, now there's a thing I do not miss a lot 20:43:28 zzo38: "bruce's C compiler" runs on Linux and produces 8086 real mode output, and has an option to produce it as a DOS .COM file 20:43:41 it probably runs on other OSes too (maybe even DOS itself) 20:43:55 (because every second programming error ended up requiring a hard reboot) 20:44:08 in terms of compilers that run on DOS real mode themselves, I'm not sure if there are any FLOSS compilers, but shareware compilers were fairly common back then 20:44:25 IIRC Borland made a few 20:44:28 Well, DOS starts up much faster than Linux or Windows, so a hard reboot does not take as long 20:45:17 kolibrios is hella fast 20:45:38 I once installed FreeDOS and a database program on a computer, and when the CRT was turned on at the same time as turning on the computer, the database program is already ready by the time the picture is visible. 20:48:10 this computer (running Linux) shuts down really fast, when I reboot the shutdown is faster than the "BIOS" (actually EFI) loading screen (which shows before the bootloader even starts running) 20:48:55 a computer running linux that can be shut down? 20:48:58 no systemd?:D 20:49:17 nah, it has systemd, it just somehow seems to actually work in this configuration 20:50:05 wonderous times 20:51:55 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:58:35 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:05:04 ugh 21:05:12 my shutdown has broken again actually 21:05:15 fucking systemd 21:05:20 :DDD 21:05:39 tried _working_ operating systems, like virtually any non-linux? 21:06:16 pfffthahahaha 21:06:25 sorry i didn't realise you were that much of a hipster 21:06:35 i like having steam too much, i'm afraid 21:06:45 being called a "hipster" by people using a 2% desktop system 21:06:55 exactly my kind of joke 21:07:03 well, your loss. 21:07:12 well if you mean windows or mac os then yeah obviously i've tried those 21:07:34 * Cthulhux uses windows, openbsd and freebsd 21:07:39 no systemd 21:07:41 >openbsd 21:07:42 perfect shutdown 21:07:43 :) 21:07:43 >freebsd 21:07:47 not a hipster 21:07:51 >working shutdown 21:07:57 i win again 21:08:15 also, playstations use freebsd as well 21:08:20 damn hipsters! 21:08:24 because as we all know it's impossible to run linux without systemd 21:08:37 that's a hilarious line of reasoning really 21:08:52 poettering shitware is slowly infecting every inch of the gnu/linux fail ecosystem 21:08:57 i mean, everything you can run on freebsd you can run on linux 21:08:59 see firefox/pulseaudio 21:08:59 aaahahahahaha 21:09:01 see GNOME 21:09:03 etc 21:09:15 i mean, everything you can run on freebsd you can run on linux << really? ZFS as a root file system? :P 21:09:29 right so explain to me the desktop environment you're using on freebsd that doesn't run on linux 21:09:30 i'll wait 21:09:36 zfs is nice but it's not a game-changer 21:09:50 zfs *is* a game-changer. (ok, maybe not on a desktop) 21:09:58 lol 21:10:24 nothing you do in freebsd will ever require any poettering shitware 21:10:24 even on a server you don't need it as root 21:10:32 enjoy the remaining three hipster distros 21:10:33 :p 21:10:38 nothing you do on linux requires poeterring shitware 21:10:44 idk why you can't grasp this 21:10:46 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:11:08 how large is the userbase of non-poettering shitware distros (no udev, no pulseaudio, no shitstemd)? 21:11:11 >hipster 21:11:25 idk, can you demonstrate it's smaller than bsd's? 21:11:48 a large part of the web traffic is routed through freebsd (netflix and whatsapp) 21:11:50 won! 21:12:02 so yes, i can 21:12:02 lol 21:12:19 so subtly moving the goalposts away from desktop use 21:12:23 the main point is still: your fail os fails to shutdown 21:12:28 so much better, i see 21:12:44 i think you're missing my actual point 21:12:55 which is, lol you're 13 and think os pissing contests are cool 21:13:02 your actual point being "hurr durr i COULD use a working os but NOBODY USES BSD" 21:13:23 because working computers are sooooo 90s. 21:13:23 :) 21:14:01 pfffthahahaha 21:14:02 which is, lol you're 13 21:14:11 * Cthulhux nods 21:14:17 i mean i think poettering's a cunt too but i don't go around embarrassing myself by blabbering about 'shitstemd' 21:14:38 yup, you try to bash working software instead 21:14:42 clever 21:14:48 lol 21:14:51 where did i bash bsd 21:14:56 >try to 21:15:15 <\oren\_> i prefer to use alsa 21:15:50 i always use alsa 21:16:19 i've only used pulse on this machine to run unity games after they fucked up and made them require pulse 21:16:26 (until i found a workaround) 21:16:38 presumably you couldn't run those games on freebsd at all, idk 21:18:42 escaping lennart's bullshit would be nice but not worth rebooting to windows every time i wanted to play anything 21:18:56 because you can't reboot :) 21:19:16 lol 21:19:53 i don't think the shutdown's even really broken, there's some sort of transient permissioning problem 21:20:21 <\oren\_> Phantom_Hoover: why not just use separate linux and windows computers 21:20:26 ... 21:20:49 <\oren\_> arms not strong enough to carry two laptops? 21:20:58 i have a desktop 21:21:38 <\oren\_> Phantom_Hoover: then why not two 21:22:19 maybe just one desk 21:23:24 definitely, i barely have room for a tiny desk in this room let alone two towers 21:24:23 <\oren\_> Cthulhux: well he could have a switch that changes which computer the peripherals are connected to, my dad had one back in the day 21:25:47 <\oren\_> it had two outlets for mouse, keyboard and screen, and one input, and a big dial that rotated between 1 and 2 21:26:04 that still requires room for a second computer 21:26:49 <\oren\_> Cthulhux: I guess but it doesn't need room for a second desk at least 21:28:05 <\oren\_> actually would such a switch thing even work with complex protocols of USB and hdmi? maybe it would have to have a microprocessor in it 21:28:45 <\oren\_> back in the 90's we used PS/2 and VGA connecters 21:33:54 \oren\_: the search term is "KVM switch", which stands for "keyboard, video, mouse" (in a strange order) 21:34:22 wob_jonas: presumably it was just a KV switch originally, then mice became popular so were added onto the end 21:35:36 \oren\_: these days instead people connect the keyboard, mouse and video outlets to small computers with microprocessors that give you a remote control ability through the internet for administrative access. remote management console or something. sometimes they also add a relay to power cycle the machine. 21:36:13 I used to use an external HDMI switch when I had a monitor without enough inputs. I don't think it had much of smarts, though. 21:36:26 ais523: maybe, but the mouse was already popular 25 years ago for non-game computers, and you don't use a KVM switch for a game console, so I'm not sure if that ever really happened 21:37:11 sometimes you get away without a switch by connecting two computers to a monitor through two different types of inputs. with like four different types of video input these days (VGA, DVI, HDMI, displayport), that's often easy by accident. 21:37:26 and having two keyboards (or just using the built-in keyboard of a notebook) is easier than having two monitors 21:38:24 but then, these days some people also just use multiple monitors 21:39:18 Many monitors have more than one of a given type of input, at least if you go a bit fancier. This one has 2x HDMI, one DP and one mini-DP. 21:39:24 my father, for example, is a sysadmin, so sometimes he works on his own notebook plus two other local computers at the same time to install stuff, in that case he can connect two computers to two monitors and either use only the built-in small display of the notebook or connect using two different types of input 21:39:46 fizzie: can it actually switch between those two HDMI by some button presses on the monitor? 21:39:51 Sure. 21:40:06 nice 21:40:07 then that too 21:40:12 I didn't know that was common on monitors 21:40:15 It's even got two soft keys you can bind to a specific action, including a specific output. 21:40:23 It really made that HDMI switch redundant. 21:40:36 Okay, the switch had 4 HDMI inputs on it, but I don't have that many sources. 21:40:51 This is a Dell U2515H, for reference. 21:41:38 yeah, but then all these different connection types get complicated because you often need at least passive converters (the video cards do the actual conversion, the passive converter just connects the wires) 21:42:10 why do we have both hdmi and displayport, as separate types? 21:42:44 It does get pretty complicated, especially since all of them have different version numbers. 21:43:00 I understand that VGA only does analog video signals, which is why we need DVI, which can do analog or digital, and that DVI doesn't do sound in the same cable as video, which is why we have HDMI 21:43:49 fizzie: sure, I know the same kind of connector port can carry multiple different signals, so there's DVI with fewer or more ports, depending on whether you want analog or digital, and... something about more than 8 bits of color depth or some such magic? I'm not sure frankly 21:44:31 It's very specific. E.g. you need at least DisplayPort 1.3 to have enough bandwidth for a 3840x2160 resolution. 21:44:59 Or 1.2. Or something, I don't remember anymore. 21:45:14 There's also something you need HDMI 2.0 for, over HDMI 1.4. 21:45:35 and while we're there, why do we have both USB3 (two speeds of that, I think) and ESATA for fast communication between a computer and a storage device? 21:45:40 Apparently that's the 4K resolution thing, and the DisplayPort version was something else. 21:46:12 ah, so maybe you need a fancier cable for extra-high resolution with high color depth 21:46:15 that could make sense 21:46:28 There's an USB 3.1 as well, and it comes in "gen 1" and "gen 2" varieties. 21:47:20 fizzie: oh, I thought we only had USB 3 and USB 3.1 21:47:22 USB 3.1 gen 2 can do five speeds: low speed, full speed, high speed, superspeed and superspeed+. 21:47:32 <\oren\_> what is the maximum VGA screen size? 21:47:34 do USB 3 and USB 3.1 use the same physical connector? 21:47:44 It's just a little funny how "full speed" is like the second-slowest option. 21:48:08 <\oren\_> I guess since it's an analog signal it's limited physically rather than my protocol 21:48:12 fizzie: oh, that's like how "double density" is the small capacity floppy disk 21:48:40 the one nobody ever uses because high density floppies are supported everywhere and are cheap and have twice as much data 21:48:54 you can still read double density in ordinary drives, but you barely find any 21:49:00 I have seen one such floppy 21:49:06 so it at least exists 21:53:25 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:54:12 If you wanted video out of a "mobile" device, it gets even more complex. There's that thing called MHL (actually, MHL 1, 2, 3 and superMHL) which sort of has the "semantics" of HDMI, but usually use either MHL-USB (micro-USB-based) or a specific mode of USB Type-C. Competing with the SlimPort/MyDP, which is basically DisplayPort integrated with micro-USB. 21:54:30 It's also very hard to find which devices support what. 21:55:44 At least the U in USB stands for "universal", so there's that. 21:56:09 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:56:53 fizzie: yeah 21:57:10 USB is complicated 21:57:51 there are lots of different physical connectors, lots of bulit-in hardware level protocols so you can charge stuff or have stuff charged without complicated electronics and bootstrap the digital layer 21:58:21 and then there are multiple digital protocols, the USB/USB2 on one set of wires, the USB3 on a second set of wires, bootstrapped by USB2 22:00:01 and it's nice that USB3 is fast, but just try to find a motherboard that has two USB3 root hubs built in, meaning that it can do full-speed USB3 conversations on two different ports at the same time, without having to buy a separate USB3 extension card that you plug in to PCI express (of which there are also like six different speeds) 22:05:23 hmm 22:05:25 Bus 008 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub 22:05:25 Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub 22:06:26 Oh, that reminds me of the whole thing with with M.2, which has a single connector that in theory can do PCIE 3.0 (x1 to x4), SATA 3.0 and USB 3.0, distinguished by various notches. 22:07:57 I was looking at M.2 SSDs, and the people making them don't really advertise which one of them they do, but the PCIE variants tend to be a lot faster than the SATA ones. 22:09:15 oh right, there's PCIE too 22:09:19 however, the two usb3 plugs on the front are on the same USB bus, hrm. 22:10:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:10:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Changing host). 22:10:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:10:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:10:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:11:20 And "lsusb -t" is really confusing, I think there's some sort of a thing where, if you plug USB 2 and 3 devices into a USB 3 hub, the two kinds of devices end up as separate trees even though physically it's just one tree. 22:11:53 On the other hand, dumping photos out of the phone became a lot faster when I changed monitors. 22:12:11 (There's an USB hub in there, and the new one does 3.0.) 22:15:37 fizzie: no, those are physically two different trees. basically in an USB3 socket, there's some extra wires for USB3 data. the USB3 device sends data on those only, and uses the USB2 for power and bootstrapping power, if I understand correctly. 22:16:43 yes, some monitors have a USB hub built in. and my father has a monitor that didn't, but he permanently taped a small USB hub gadget onto it. instant monitor feature upgrade. 22:18:55 the drawback of that monitor is that if you turn off the monitor with the power switch, then suddenly you can't use the keyboard or mouse plugged into your computer through the monitor 22:19:13 that's not the one with the instant upgrade, but the monitor with the hub originally built in 22:28:48 wob_jonas: ah I see. The board has two USB host controllers besides the one in the X99 chipset... that's how it got 2xUSB 3.0 and 1xUSB 3.1 22:29:14 int-e: two USB-3 controllers? because two USB-2 controllers is easy 22:29:47 but for USB-3 devices, one USB-3 controller usually gives more bandwidth than three USB-2 controllers 22:30:17 fo course, after a while, the rest of the computer can't keep up with the data either 22:30:19 wob_jonas: http://sprunge.us/VcBB 22:30:26 such as the CPU or GPU or disks 22:30:27 (this matches the MB documentation) 22:30:58 int-e: I don't know which one of EHCI and UHCI and XHCI and whatever mean what, but ok 22:31:31 wob_jonas: the xHCI is the USB 3.0 one, the other two in the chipset must be USB 2.0 22:31:53 ok 22:32:30 anyway, I had not realized that this is special... nor have I ever exploited this so far. 22:32:48 int-e: that's not special 22:32:58 int-e: that says you have one USB3 and two USB2 controllers 22:33:00 that's typical 22:33:23 wob_jonas: no, there's another USB 3.0 host and a USB 3.1 one in addition to that. 22:33:30 oh, nice 22:33:36 how new is that motherboard? 22:33:59 but doesn't EHCI mean USB 2? 22:34:35 I meant the VIA and the ASMedia things 22:35:30 int-e: oh. but some of those are probably different software views of the same controller 22:35:43 if your motherboard actually had two independent controllers, then you'd see two of the same type 22:36:02 your OS probably just creates multiple different devices that view the same underlying hardware in different ways 22:36:08 hmm, no it makes sense here. 22:36:14 possibly at different layers 22:36:33 int-e: do you have an extension card plugged in (such as via PCI express) that provides some of those? 22:37:01 yes it's odd to have three vendors, but the X99 part of the core chipset, and the two additional ones are different USB versions. 22:37:22 no I just bought a fairly expensive gaming motherboard 22:38:01 anyway, as for how to exploit that, get two external disk dockers, the ones in which you put a hard disk or solid state disk connected to the docking device with SATA or mini SATA or the other size of mini SATA, and the docking device is connected to your computer by USB 3 and to a power supply by a round power port 22:38:08 -!- Guest12180 has changed nick to moony. 22:38:19 -!- moony has quit (Changing host). 22:38:19 -!- moony has joined. 22:38:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:38:56 int-e: is it real gaming, or just labeled as "gaming"? hardware people label the most ridiculous non-gaming equipment as "gaming" for some reason, including motherboards with built-in hardware RAID and keyboards with hard clicky keys for use by programmers 22:39:53 they add all sort of search terms so that if you search for either "gaming" in ebay or google or something, you find all their products, even the ones not for gaming 22:40:13 https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/X99A-GAMING-7.html 22:40:37 also, nice 22:40:38 I regarded it as a marketing label either way... 22:41:51 "Gaming Device Port" 22:41:56 yeah, silly :) 22:43:25 ah, the Gaming Device Port has "3x more gold than regular connectors" and "10x longer lifetime when plugging/un-plugging" 22:43:40 but it's not clear if that refers to the PS2 port or an USB port 22:43:47 or even an audio port 22:44:02 or maybe all ports are gilded with gold 22:44:10 so that's what it means... it refers to 1xPS/2 and 2xUSB 2.0 22:45:07 and it's a total waste because those are the least moved plugs 22:45:38 not for a gamer who tries a new different type of fancy game controller every month 22:45:56 but I can't complain, board has been stable, it has 8 slots and on board sound is decent... those were basically the things I cared about. 22:46:06 8 memory slots even 22:46:19 I think all those left out words are a sign, good night. 22:46:22 and even when he doesn't buy anything new, he has to switch between the ordinary hand-held controller, Guitar Hero Rock Band controller, and the steering wheel and foot pedals 22:46:32 oh, 8 memory slots are nice 22:46:38 good nigth 22:46:56 it's a nice motherboard. not the one I'll buy, but nice. 22:48:52 -!- boily has joined. 22:49:11 `5 w 22:49:17 1/2:onion//Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry. \ eventually//Eventually we'll have a better wisdom here. \ lystrosaur//The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. \ ring//Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. 22:49:18 `n 22:49:19 2/2: \ gaspacho//You like Gaspacho and I like Gazpacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 22:58:04 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:00:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:08 -!- APic has quit (Quit: Scheduled Downtime. See You later, Gals and/or Pals. ☺). 23:01:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:07:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:08:18 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:08:42 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 23:26:27 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:35:51 <\oren\_> ♃ ｊｕｐｉｔｅｒ ♃ 23:35:55 <\oren\_> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/914734726493102082 23:36:48 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 23:42:47 ＨＥ＼＼ＯＲＥＮ＼。 23:46:44 <\oren\_> boily: are you excited for reusable rockets that can loft hundred-ton satellites? 23:47:09 -!- \oren\_ has changed nick to \oren\. 23:55:55 -!- ACTPic has joined. 2017-10-03: 00:00:59 \oren\: yup! anything that can haul ass into space is good. 00:01:10 and if it's reusable, then go for it! 00:01:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PLANTAR CHICKEN). 00:02:58 -!- ACTPic has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:18:23 -!- augur has joined. 00:20:11 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 00:30:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:15:54 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 01:23:21 -!- ACTPic has joined. 01:25:21 -!- ACTPic has quit (Client Quit). 01:25:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:26:09 -!- APic has joined. 02:15:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:30:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:03:09 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:36:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:44:43 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 04:48:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:00:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:02:13 `? oerjan 05:02:15 Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the shifty flame is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who misses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. 05:02:54 `swrjan s/flame/knite/ 05:02:57 oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the shifty knite is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who misses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. 05:22:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:31:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:12:19 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:20:11 -!- GeekDude has joined. 06:56:29 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:13:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:14:54 -!- heroux has joined. 07:35:41 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:16:17 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:22:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:31:23 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:34:23 -!- joast has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:37:10 -!- Cale has joined. 08:41:48 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:08:18 -!- fungot has joined. 09:28:18 -!- potato44 has joined. 10:23:35 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 10:23:50 -!- puckipedia has joined. 11:35:58 -!- boily has joined. 11:44:04 -!- potato44 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:58:10 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:09:36 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 12:12:58 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:24:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ICE CHICKEN). 12:30:43 -!- fungot has joined. 12:31:54 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:34:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:42:37 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:55:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:57:21 -!- potato44 has joined. 13:06:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:17:59 -!- potato44 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:24:29 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:32:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:34:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:49:14 -!- potato44 has joined. 13:50:38 does anyone know of any esolangs that use ascii control charactersas its commands? 13:51:32 potato44: exclusively? or among other commands? 13:51:52 gs2 tends to use a lot of characters in the 0-31 range, some of its most basic commands are there, but it has others out of the range 13:51:57 ideally exclusively, but it depends on what other characters 13:53:09 Whitespace sort of almost counts 13:53:31 Taneb: newline and tab are control characters, but space isn't 13:53:37 I know of BENUL, but NUL is also a problomatic character 13:53:50 Hence "sort of almost" 13:54:02 I can't think of a language that was specifically designed to use the control character range (there might be one that I don't know about), especially if you want the control characters to match the language semantics in some way 13:54:34 there's a version of BF that uses character codes 1-8 as the commands, and is typically used internally in optimizing interpreters, but I don't really think that counts (especially as the number assignment is arbitrary) 13:55:24 If there is an actual interpreter for that dialect of BF, that would be exactly what I want 13:55:48 it's easy enough to write one 13:55:55 as long as it also ignores the rest of ascii 13:56:02 do you expect us to have interpreters for all trivial brainfuck substitutions? just take some reasonable brainfuck implementation and modify it. 13:56:33 we have Brainfuck and Ook! interpreters, because Ook! is historically important, but the rest aren't important 13:56:41 easy enough to write, but I'm not sure where the rules of PPCG fall on the allowability of it. 13:57:36 potato44: I was suspecting this was related to the polyglot :-D 13:57:52 ais523: it is 13:58:47 that thing has somehow turned conventional #esoteric wisdom on its head by actually creating a market for a large quantity of trivial BF substitutions 13:59:49 well, the other day I found some japanese guys github that had about a hlaf dozen each lazy substitutions for BF, Lazy K and a couple of other langs 14:00:43 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:03:48 -!- joast has joined. 14:06:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: It seems most convenient to apologise for my connection in the quit message, given how often it comes up… If I immediately reconnect, it's probably because I could send but not receive.). 14:06:27 found a lang that only recognises formfeed and vertical tab and then translates that to a javascript exec. Now to work out how exec works in javascript 14:06:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:07:05 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:08:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:31:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:43:54 [wiki] [[Stape]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53160 * StellatedHexahedron * (+1227) Created page with "'''Stape''' is office-supplies-based programming language, designed to be difficult to program in in new and interesting ways. It was created in 2017 by User: stellatedHexah..." 14:47:44 -!- Hooloovo0 has quit (Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.). 14:47:55 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 14:49:16 -!- Hoolootwo has changed nick to Hooloovo0. 15:07:14 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:12:58 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:24:26 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 15:24:28 -!- danil_ has joined. 15:26:00 H 15:26:14 anyone online? 15:26:22 I don't think so 15:26:33 OK 15:27:45 Bye 15:28:00 -!- danil_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:28:36 what 15:29:31 danil was very upset at the topic not being 100% accurate, and thus maybe also takes sarcasm at face value? 15:31:38 looks 100% correct to me 15:34:32 in case anyone cares, in Magic: the Gathering, https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/ixalan-update-bulletin-2017-09-28 Ixalan Update Bulletin (summary of rules changes) 15:35:23 I read it already 15:35:34 Hooloovo0: it wasn't until I fixed it 15:35:42 it claimed the channel was a hypercube 15:35:49 which is a fairly inconsequential inaccuracy, really 15:36:05 I'm not sure I can reasonably demonstrate the channel isn't a hypercube 15:36:32 -!- danil_ has joined. 15:36:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: getting food). 15:36:59 Anyone here now/ 15:37:05 still nope 15:37:36 Why are people saying no? You are online yes? 15:37:54 we are being facetious 15:38:00 Pardon? 15:38:40 This is not serious/ 15:38:48 @google metar 15:38:49 https://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/ 15:38:59 @google facetious 15:39:00 https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/facetious 15:39:33 @google bear licsense 15:39:35 http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/bearlic.html 15:39:35 Title: Bear license - Wisconsin DNR 15:40:05 Usefull, huh? calling google from IRC 15:40:29 @google danil 15:40:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danil 15:40:41 I mean it's kind of annoying to us 15:41:04 Sorry. 15:41:22 I did not mean too. 15:42:03 -!- danil_ has quit (Quit: danil_). 15:46:42 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:49:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:50:30 -!- dan_ has joined. 15:50:37 Hello! 15:58:17 -!- Cale has joined. 16:02:29 -!- potato44 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:07:18 -!- potato44 has joined. 16:11:49 -!- potato44 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:12:50 Hello 16:23:53 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:27:22 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 16:33:03 Hi 16:33:20 -!- dan_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:33:28 `quote insanity 16:33:29 397) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. 16:35:00 -!- hakatashi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:36:58 -!- hakatashi has joined. 16:41:58 -!- danil_ has joined. 16:43:18 I still hate how airplane tickets only give the departure and arrival time in local time for the airports. They should give either the timezone offset of that time, or an UTC datetime. 16:43:32 They do this even for tickets that go to a different timezone. 16:43:52 yes, i also. 16:43:57 I'm currently reading the *easy* case, when I'm just traveling to Sweden and back, so both departure and arrival are in the Paris timezone. 16:44:09 Why? 16:44:38 Do you fly from Paris to Sweden 16:45:29 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:47:06 no, from Hungary to Sweden 16:47:33 Paris is just the name I use for the timezone in modern times, because it's clearly the biggest city in this timezone 16:49:02 Well, technically that's no longer true. These days Berlin and Madrid and Rome are the biggest. 16:49:17 Maybe I should call it the Berlin timezone instead. 16:50:37 I have a clock set to berlin time and not paris time 16:51:14 Paris is biggest if you count greater Paris, including agglomerations. 16:51:27 Which is probably the right measure for figuring out which is the most significant city in this context 16:51:37 so Paris is probably the right name. 16:51:49 paris is literally surrounded by a wall though, so while all metropolitans grow, "paris intramuros" doesn't 16:52:49 LKoen: yes, basically the city proper area is defined by how the local governments work, which is irrelevant here 16:52:55 Paris is the most significant city 16:53:08 (also, Berlin had a sort of strange history) 16:59:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:11:29 fungot, what's the biggest city in the Paris timezone? 17:11:29 b_jonas: leprechauns are the most spectacular being _baluchitherium_ from the abyss before them, don't you see invisible things. you'll probably find one on the brilliant marble-sanded beaches of santraginus v, inhaling the heady sea vapors; you can read between it and forged odin's signature on the subject of towels. a world for himself a suit of oil-cloth or tarpaulin, and its transparent skin shows its face again. 17:11:59 b_jonas, I guess the answer is, unexpectedly, Dublin 17:12:09 ^style europarl 17:12:09 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 17:12:13 fungot, what's the biggest city in the Paris timezone? 17:12:14 b_jonas: mr president, i will not go away unless we tackle them. i do not want these problems to spill over into other countries, thailand, from 2 to 14 october 2004? i am convinced that the foundation should be involved in discussions when there really is a scandal for any civilized country just to stand by and do nothing. one wonders where it finds the courage to resolve the problems suffered by citizens and their concerns ta 17:12:30 Or possibly Bangkok 17:12:36 ok, that's avoiding this question more directly than the previous answer 17:22:12 -!- danil_ has quit (Quit: danil_). 17:26:18 -!- danil_ has joined. 17:32:01 -!- danil_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:37:45 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:48:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:53:49 <\oren\> The biggest city in the paris timezone would probaby be the rhineland urban aglomeration wouldn't it 17:54:51 \oren\: not by population I think 17:55:42 <\oren\> Hmm, Rhine-Ruhr region has 11 million 17:55:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:56:04 <\oren\> ile-de-france has 12 million 17:58:46 <\oren\> seems like they're pretty close but the winner depends what data set you're looking at 17:59:00 sure, at some point this gets a question of definition 17:59:25 s/gets/gets to be/ 18:04:04 in any case, you can call the same timezone with multiple names 18:04:35 so if you prefer to call it by some other big city within the timezone, feel free 18:04:55 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:05:22 <\oren\> hmm, maybe we can just wait until there is continuous development along the Paris-Ruhr train line 18:06:14 <\oren\> then give some fancy name to said urban aglomeration 18:09:41 <\oren\> Megacity E or some shit 18:12:14 <\oren\> altho, by that point it would include the entire country of belgium probaby 18:13:10 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:21:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:38:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:40:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:45:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:18:48 -!- danil_ has joined. 19:33:30 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:35:03 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 19:37:51 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:24 -!- danil_ has quit (Quit: danil_). 19:47:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:49:45 -!- imode has joined. 19:50:10 -!- imode has changed nick to Guest41646. 19:56:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:56:56 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:58:00 Is it weird that I wind up writing things like "translating to a double de Bruijn stack context" when I'm doing something for fun 19:58:46 Taneb: I had to read up on a few mathematical papers to be able to parse Incident efficiently 20:00:03 ais523, nice 20:00:21 Although I'm making up terminology here 20:01:07 I'm not sure if de Bruijn stack is the word for what I'm doing, and honestly I'm not sure at all if I need the second one 20:03:32 What I'm doing is implementing System F in Agda 20:04:20 with type annotations? or are you using some other method to make it theoretically possible? 20:04:26 Type annotations 20:05:20 -!- hakatashi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:05:36 I'm using something like De Bruijn indices, but because it's Agda I want to statically check that I'm not going to underflow the stack, and furthermore I want to carry the variable's types about too 20:05:42 So hence a De Bruijn stack 20:05:57 -!- hakatashi has joined. 20:06:36 I need something similar at the type level, but for that I think I just need to know how many type variables I have lying around 20:07:57 (if I was doing System Fω I'd need to know the kinds of the type variables as well) 20:10:55 -!- hakatashi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:11:29 -!- Guest41646 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9). 20:12:21 -!- hakatashi has joined. 20:12:37 I'd be very interested to know if what I'm calling the De Bruijn stack exists in the literature 20:12:42 (the the brown stack?) 20:20:55 -!- hakatashi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:22:00 -!- hakatashi has joined. 20:42:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:42:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:45:46 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:00:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:04:50 -!- hakatashi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:04:54 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha self-modifying C++ 21:05:26 <\oren\> hmm, wait does it count if it has to be recompiled and rerun each time it modifies itself? 21:06:11 -!- hakatashi has joined. 21:06:35 <\oren\> i guess this isn't so self-modifying 21:42:30 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: ZNC Sucks >_>). 21:42:39 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:42:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:43:02 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest57865. 21:43:41 -!- Guest57865 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 21:43:43 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 21:43:43 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:50:45 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:50:50 \oren\: I think the word for that is "polymorphic" 22:12:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:44:30 -!- augur has joined. 22:58:14 -!- boily has joined. 23:02:24 `5 w 23:02:30 1/2:context//context is a word with many meanings, depending on where it is used. \ fourth//Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. \ atwp//According to Wikipedia, ATWP means "Air Transport White Paper". \ icfp//I see functorial people. \ brainf**k//There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinki 23:02:31 `n 23:02:31 2/2:ng of brainfuck. 23:02:46 no, I do not think about brainfuck. 23:11:59 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:12:03 oh no! they're falsifying the will 23:12:12 wellob_jonas? 23:12:42 I'm listening to Gianni Schicci, the opera 23:55:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 2017-10-04: 00:24:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 00:35:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:56:45 * boily pooch pooch pooch pooch pooch ♪ 00:57:05 -!- erkin has joined. 01:08:30 -!- imode has joined. 01:15:22 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1). 01:21:40 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:23:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:29:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:39:05 -!- nchambers has left. 01:45:54 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:57:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:10:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:28:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BLESSED CHICKEN). 02:38:36 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:49 `? forth 02:42:50 forth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:42:53 `? fourth 02:42:54 Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 02:43:01 `dowg fourth 02:43:10 10501:2017-03-24 ` mv wisdom/fo{,u}rth; slwd fourth\\ wisdom//s,rt,urt, 02:43:28 wat 02:43:40 why would i do that. 02:43:59 `dowg forth 02:44:07 10501:2017-03-24 ` mv wisdom/fo{,u}rth; slwd fourth\\ wisdom//s,rt,urt, \ 5407:2015-06-05 slashlearn forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 02:44:44 Wait, what's going on with that slwd? 02:45:00 it looks pretty broken. 02:46:15 oh i see. 02:46:32 `` mv wisdom/fo{u,}rth 02:46:34 No output. 02:46:37 `? forth 02:46:38 Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 02:47:14 `? fourth wisdom 02:47:15 ​.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom fourth The 02:47:39 that's the one i wanted to change. but i forgot to fix the mistake of moving `? forth 03:02:30 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:09:02 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 03:11:46 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:12:52 -!- imode has joined. 03:16:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:28:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:36:21 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1). 03:42:15 -!- imode has joined. 03:59:54 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: ZNC Sucks >_>). 04:44:31 `blessyou oerjan 04:44:32 Bless you, oerjan. Bloerjan. 04:44:53 . o O ( but i wasn't sneezing ) 04:45:01 gesoerjant 04:46:46 Blimey, oerjan. Bloerjan. 04:51:01 good morning shachaf 04:51:15 Good morning. 04:51:19 i was going to make that a portmanteau but there isn't a single common letter. 04:51:44 G'moerjan. 05:14:44 `q king 05:14:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: q: not found 05:14:51 `5 quote king 05:14:53 1/178:14) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 40) GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 73) Making a small shrine to Lawlabee in my basement is 05:14:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:15:09 `randquote king 05:15:10 975) Sgeo: That fact is so fun I can feel my pancreas kicking into overdrive. 05:23:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:26:35 The king of kic 05:41:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:45:48 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 06:05:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 06:53:09 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:57:07 `randquote \bking\b 06:57:08 516) king is something women are better at than men 06:57:15 `5 randquote \bking\b 06:57:17 1/0: 06:57:34 `5 nur randquote \bking\b 06:57:36 1/0: 06:57:45 Oh, right. 06:57:47 `5 randquote '\bking\b' 06:57:50 1/3:1177) like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. man that must have sucked People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" That's why they're called rulers, you know \ 239) However is probably better to have both queen/king and government in case 06:58:03 Jafet++ 06:58:07 `n 06:58:08 2/3: one does bad thing, the other side can argue to them \ 516) king is something women are better at than men \ 239) However is probably better to have both queen/king and government in case one does bad thing, the other side can argue to them \ 239) However is probably better to have both queen/king and government in ca 06:58:10 `n 06:58:11 3/3:se one does bad thing, the other side can argue to them 06:58:47 `1 quote '\bking\b' | shuf 06:58:48 1/2:1177) like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. man that must have sucked People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" That's why they're called rulers, you know \ 516) king is something women are better at than men \ 239) However i 06:58:52 `n 06:58:53 2/2:s probably better to have both queen/king and government in case one does bad thing, the other side can argue to them 06:58:54 Hmm. 07:05:59 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:06:58 -!- Cale has joined. 08:38:10 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:16:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:17:16 -!- augur has joined. 09:21:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:27:22 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:59:16 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53161&oldid=53156 * Luke1337 * (+362) /* Introductions */ 09:59:43 [wiki] [[Aheui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53162&oldid=44965 * Luke1337 * (-95) removed a dead link 10:42:56 lol 11:35:29 -!- boily has joined. 11:40:00 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 11:45:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:59:45 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:04:54 `? phasing 12:04:55 phasing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:04:55 `? phase 12:04:56 phase? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:27:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SLIPSTREAM CHICKEN). 12:36:57 ``` ln -svf allsets-2017-09-20.txt share/mtg/allsets.txt 12:36:59 ​'share/mtg/allsets.txt' -> 'allsets-2017-09-20.txt' 12:38:32 `card-by-name walk the 12:38:32 Walk the Aeons \ 4UU \ Sorcery \ Buyback--Sacrifice three Islands. (You may sacrifice three Islands in addition to any other costs as you cast this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.) \ Target player takes an extra turn after this one. \ TSP-R \ \ Walk the Plank \ BB \ Sorcery \ Destroy target non-Merfolk creature. \ XL 12:38:36 `card-by-name walk the plank 12:38:37 Walk the Plank \ BB \ Sorcery \ Destroy target non-Merfolk creature. \ XLN-U 12:39:59 `? xln 12:40:00 xln? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:40:31 @google mtg xln 12:40:32 https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/ixalan 12:40:41 (that worked) 12:42:07 int-e: that's the latest released expert set. I'm testing with the latest to show that updating the local copy of the card database worked. 12:47:31 ``` grep "^306\.4." share/mtg/rules.txt # I also updated the local copy of the comprehensive rules 12:47:32 306.4. Previously, planeswalkers were subject to a “planeswalker uniqueness rule” that stopped a player from controlling two planeswalkers of the same planeswalker type. This rule has been removed and planeswalker cards printed before this change have received errata in the Oracle card reference to have the legendary supertype. Like other legen 12:48:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:48:58 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 12:49:17 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 12:49:17 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 13:02:02 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:08 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:03:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:17:12 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:23:27 -!- LKoen has joined. 14:38:25 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:38:48 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest77438. 14:40:14 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:54:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:59:28 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:09:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:23:41 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:23:54 `scheme 15:23:54 Realms Befitting My Majesty 15:24:00 `5 scheme 15:24:02 1/1:This World Belongs to Me \ Nothing Can Stop Me Now \ My Undead Horde Awakens \ Delight in the Hunt \ No One Will Hear Your Cries 15:33:37 -!- sleffy has joined. 15:38:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:09:24 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:20:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:31:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:04:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:13:29 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:05:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:05:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:11:42 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:13:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 18:36:30 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:36:31 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 18:38:20 [wiki] [[Aheui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53163&oldid=53162 * Oerjan * (+120) Use wayback 19:01:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:06:26 -!- imode has joined. 19:29:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:32:33 `olist 1101 19:32:34 olist 1101: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 19:34:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:38:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:40:42 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:48:57 -!- sleffy has joined. 19:56:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:11:33 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:20:53 -!- augur has joined. 20:43:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:44:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:47:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:48:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:55:21 -!- Kaynato has joined. 21:00:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:03:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:12:11 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:13:01 -!- augur has joined. 21:13:41 -!- Lung868 has joined. 21:17:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:24:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:24:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 21:24:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:33:24 -!- SigmundYx has joined. 21:51:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:52:48 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:54:44 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:11:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:11:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:13:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:15:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:19:54 hi, ais 22:20:40 ais523: so I read the M:tG Ixalan update bulletin. I was surprised that they're making a new phasing card. that's one of those mechanics that are too complicated rules-wise to be worth bringing back, like banding. 22:21:06 wob_jonas: it's in a supplementary set, those are allowed to be more complex 22:21:31 although, hmm, is it the first new phasing card since the phasing rules changed? 22:21:55 I thought that mechanic was phased out. 22:21:58 still, reprinting phasing card would seem entirely reasonable in a Masters set, and only slightly out of place in Commander or Conspiracy 22:22:05 *reprinting a 22:22:13 so I expect creating a new one has similar considerations 22:22:44 ais523: you mean it won't be in Modern? yes, that's a good point, but still. 22:22:57 wob_jonas: right, nor in Standard 22:23:01 only Legacy, Vintage and Commander 22:23:21 (it's clearly the sort of card that was designed for multiplayer) 22:23:26 `card-by-name teferi's protection 22:23:27 Teferi's Protection \ 2W \ Instant \ Until your next turn, your life total can't change and you have protection from everything. All permanents you control phase out. (While they're phased out, they're treated as though they don't exist. They phase in before you untap during your untap step.) \ Exile Teferi's Protection. \ C17-R 22:23:54 ais523: reprinting is generally more easier to support than making entirely new cards 22:24:20 one-shot phasing is probably the easiest sort to understand 22:24:46 although this does apply to all sorts of permanents, increasing the chance of a confusing interaction 22:26:58 ais523: I don't see why one-shot would be much easier to understand than phasing every turn 22:27:10 also that reminder text explains most of the relevant cases by itself, the most likely ones that aren't explained are to do when an aura and the enchanted permanent have two different controllers 22:27:35 wob_jonas: because "X phases out" needs fewer definitions than "Phasing", the keyword 22:28:03 sort of. 22:28:38 except for the part that it happens at instant speed now. 22:28:53 so there's more potential interactions with other spells. 22:29:00 or with combat. 22:29:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:32:43 Mind you, I also think that permanents becoming a copy of an object is too complicated rules-wise, and so is making permanents lose all abilities, yet Wizards still keep printing them (in Modern at rare). 22:33:17 clone effects are popular enough that Wizards wants to make them work, I guess 22:33:41 it isn't too conceptually complex in the common case, you assume that the copy was printed as being identical to the copied card for as long as the copy effect lasts 22:33:50 the main issues come in special cases, like copying a DFC 22:34:02 (Actually the latter in uncommon too, and was in common in Lorwyn.) 22:34:47 -!- Lung868 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:55 ais523: yes, but even among clone effects, which are difficult already, an already existing permanent temporarily becoming a copy is slightly more difficult than just making token copies or having a permanent etb as a copy and remaining a copy forever. 22:36:25 And yes, the main issues come in special cases, but there are lots of different types of special cases, and they come up in recent sets too. 22:37:01 Although I must admit that they eliminated one special case entirely, namely the old rules for Primal Clay, which they replaced with simple to understand new rules. 22:37:04 Retroactively. 22:38:35 So now Primal Clay and two other cards just set its own p/t and abilities, just like levelers; as opposed to setting the whole copiable values, like split cards, flip cards, double-faced cards, morph, do. 22:44:14 -!- imode has joined. 22:44:16 Oh, that reminds me, a rules question. I have a Horned Turtle (vanilla) in play. Can I resolve Artificial Evolution on it in such a way as to replace all instances of Sliver with Wizard, then much later, Cytoshape that turtle to a Predatory Sliver to have it grant a bonus to all my Wizards? 22:45:38 wob_jonas: that's just a layers question, isn't it? 22:45:52 and I'm fairly sure that copy applies before text change, so it should work 22:45:57 (I'm asking about current rules, even if I sometimes say "in play" instead of "on the battlefield") 22:46:25 ais523: no, not only that. I'm not sure if choosing Sliver is a valid choice at all if that word doesn't currently occur on the target object. 22:47:11 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:47:14 `card-by-name artificial evolution 22:47:14 Artificial Evolution \ U \ Instant \ Change the text of target spell or permanent by replacing all instances of one creature type with another. The new creature type can't be Wall. (This effect lasts indefinitely.) \ ONS-R 22:47:29 hmm, it's unclear from the wording, I assume there'd be a ruling on it 22:48:03 04/10/2004 Can target a card with no appropriate words on it, or even one with no words at all. 22:48:05 yep, there's a ruling 22:48:22 ais523: that only says "can target". it doesn't say what happens at resolution. 22:48:44 well it clearly isn't countered on resolution 22:48:44 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:48:55 and there's no rule that says that effects aren't created just because they couldn't do anything 22:49:04 when I set the target, it won't check whether choices at resolution are valid or actions at resolution can be carried out 22:49:36 it surely won't get *countered*, I only wonder if it's such that there's no valid choices so the action is ignored, or, in this case, the only valid choice is Turtle 22:50:13 ais523: no, but there are rules saying that in some case when I make choices at resolution, I can't choose ones that are impossible 22:50:31 that applies for "you may" choices at least 22:50:41 even if it's not about paying costs 22:50:54 but two alternative non-pay actions 22:51:50 but it's possible that that doesn't apply for this choice, and even more likely that I can choose Sliver even if it doesn't appear in the text of the card 22:52:38 this is a comparable situation to casting "target permanent gets +1/+1" on a land; I'd expect that to work 22:52:42 although I'm not sure if it's possible at the moment 22:52:51 oh right, there's a situation with Vehicles 22:52:58 where you can increase their stats before they're animated 22:53:10 even if it's not impossible, I wonder if "one creature type" refers only to a creature type that appears in the text 22:53:35 `card-by-name gearshift ace 22:53:35 Gearshift Ace \ 1W \ Creature -- Dwarf Pilot \ 2/1 \ First strike \ Whenever Gearshift Ace crews a Vehicle, that Vehicle gains first strike until end of turn. \ KLD-U 22:54:14 "crews" triggers when the creature is tapped, not when the crew ability resolves 22:54:22 so the Vehicle gainst first strike first 22:54:24 then becomes a creature later on 22:54:41 granting first strike to an artifact doesn't make sense and yet the effect is still created 22:55:59 -!- SigmundYx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:56:22 sure 22:56:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:56:47 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:22 and yes, card text is written very carefully so that when something grants p/t bonus/malus or first strike or trample to some other permanent, the text either explicitly requires a creature, or implicitly requires because it explicitly requires "blocking" in case of Glyph of Destruction. 23:07:20 I think the reason M:tG normally disallows things like giving a land +1/+1 is not because it doesn't work but because it would confuse players 23:07:27 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:07:35 doing it to a Vehicle is less confusing because at least you expect those to turn into creatures at some point 23:10:23 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:10:50 -!- boily has joined. 23:16:03 ais523: yes, and there are other edge cases, eg. if you use an external animator, then Chronatog Totem can give itself +3/+3 after the animator is cancelled 23:18:20 or any number of creature like Stonewood Invoker could give itself p/t bonus in a way that's still resolved after it's turned to a noncreature by Soul Sculptor 23:19:03 because when creatures give *themselves* p/t bonus or first strike or trample, then the text generally doesn't explicitly check that it's still a creature 23:22:58 -!- augur has joined. 23:24:25 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:27:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:28:41 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:49:13 -!- augur has joined. 23:50:42 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:53:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:54:57 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:56:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:59:13 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 2017-10-05: 00:10:07 `5 w 00:10:12 1/3:zarutian//You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' sea 00:10:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:10:13 `n 00:10:13 2/3:l from the guild of Realers. He is also known for making rather long HackEgo wisdom entries. Take for instance this entry. It has a whole subentry just on Icelandic unnerver. Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own. \ rhetorical question//Why did Taneb invent the rhetorical question without providing an answer? \ the u//The U are a v 00:10:15 `n 00:10:16 3/3:ery mad people. \ intercal//INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. \ eridanipoid//Eridanipoids form a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants. They form dense clusters of unmovable and unstoppable objects. 00:10:20 hellørjan! 00:12:26 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:15:06 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:18:28 helloily! 00:18:40 * oerjan smells a PPCG bounty coming his way 00:19:50 (maybe) 00:21:39 what does a bounty mean in this context? 00:22:03 Internet points 00:23:05 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:23:39 helloochaf. tdh. 00:25:03 yeah 00:25:22 (stackexchange site rep points) 00:56:19 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 01:12:28 oerjan: for which answer? 01:14:48 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:18:27 ais523: well it's not explicitly stated that it's for me but i have a good vibe about https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/138912/ 01:19:11 (i'm the only one answering in a non-esoteric language) 01:20:57 or well, TI-BASIC might not be esoteric. 01:20:59 oerjan: nice, it manages to be obfuscated and underhanded simultaneously and to useful effect 01:21:03 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:21:13 heh 01:21:32 although including a cyrillic and ASCII d in the same line is probably a loophole violation for underhanded code; luckily this wasn't an underhanded competition 01:26:00 the cyrillic character was not chosen for underhandedness at all, of course; it was simply the smallest unicode character that worked there (possibly the only one) 01:26:07 indeed 01:26:24 only two byte one that is 01:26:26 and the ASCII d is an essential part of the spelling of "id" 01:26:31 yeah 01:26:48 i probably didn't have to use d for the last-minute change 01:27:26 that was just the first letter that worked there, presumably. 01:31:27 hm "or" fits instead of "id" afa characters are concerned, but it gives a type ambiguity. 01:32:16 > "ԁ" 01:32:19 "\1281" 01:33:01 > (1281*)[1..5] 01:33:04 error: 01:33:04 • No instance for (Num [Integer]) arising from a use of ‘e_1128115’ 01:33:04 • In the expression: e_1128115 01:33:10 > map(1281*)[1..5] 01:33:13 [1281,2562,3843,5124,6405] 01:33:37 "\2562\3843\5124\6405" 01:33:49 > var "\2562\3843\5124\6405" 01:33:51 ਂ༃ᐄᤅ 01:34:34 > map generalCategory "\2562\3843\5124\6405" 01:34:36 [NonSpacingMark,OtherSymbol,OtherLetter,OtherLetter] 01:35:31 -!- augur has joined. 01:35:33 hm no letters until it passes into 3 bytes, i recognize the ᐄ 01:35:49 (that's the character i allude to in the explanation) 01:36:14 i originally had that before thinking of the tab trick 01:46:18 :t or 01:46:20 Foldable t => t Bool -> Bool 01:46:42 huh, what's the kind of Foldable there? 01:47:36 it's weird to see quantification over type constructors, although I guess if any non-total language can do it, it's probably Haskell 01:51:49 Do you think it's weird with Functor and Monad too? 01:51:58 I guess when Haskell was new this was looked at as a pretty unusual feature. 01:52:25 It even had some name like "constructor classes". 01:53:20 shachaf: yes, although monads are weird enough that you don't instinctively consider the monad "constructor" as being a type and so it doesn't feel as out of place 01:54:08 Rust still doesn't support this feature. :-( 01:54:40 Though C++ does, sort of. 01:55:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:55:30 that reminds me, I started trying to write a program in Rust to try it out 01:56:09 and found a problem that seems to be a) common and b) in need of a new feature to address it (although multiple possible solutions would work) 01:56:46 I had that experience multiple times when I tried writing some Rust a while ago. 01:57:13 the case where it came up for me was: suppose you want a trait that describes enums, including how many elements you have; and you want to create an array with X elements, where X is the number of possibilties of the enum, given the enum as a type parameter 01:57:46 you can't currently do this without placing a large number of type bounds on the resulting trait that leak implementation details 01:58:42 the cleanest and simplest fix, AFAICT, is to allow for "closed" traits (that can't have new types implementing them), plus a rule that if a type implements a closed trait, it (automatically / on request) implements all traits that types implementing that closed trait implement 01:59:12 (this is a tautology, but the point is that if I have x: ClosedTrait, and only types A and B implement ClosedTrait, I can then assume x implements any trait implemented by both A and B) 02:03:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:11:31 -!- iovoid has quit (Excess Flood). 02:11:39 -!- iovoid has joined. 02:20:39 :k Foldable 02:20:40 (* -> *) -> Constraint 02:20:44 ais523: ^ 02:21:20 wait, I thought there was only one base kind 02:21:25 apparently not? 02:25:28 not in a while 02:26:59 :k Int# 02:27:00 error: 02:27:00 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Int#’ 02:27:00 Perhaps you meant one of these: 02:27:03 argh 02:27:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 02:27:29 `? oerjan 02:27:30 Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty arrant "Darth Ept" oerjan the shifty knite is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who misses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. 02:27:36 :k GHC.Exts.Int# 02:27:38 TYPE 'GHC.Types.IntRep 02:27:45 `swrjan s/arrant/kind/ 02:27:47 oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ept" oerjan the shifty knite is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who misses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. 02:28:02 shachaf: pardon me, i'm trying to demonstrate to ais523 here 02:28:10 how kind of you 02:28:39 oerjan: hmm, so kinds in Haskell have changed from being a mathematical concept to more of a "this is how the Haskell implementation handles a type"? 02:28:41 now unboxed types have a kind showing an approximation of their runtime representation 02:28:52 We figured out some good GHC bugs back in the day using all these extra kinds. 02:29:20 (before they were all tossed into a special kind #) 02:29:28 one might even go so far as to call them "astonishingly ingenious" 02:29:34 shachaf: why on earth does HackEgo have a command specifically for editing oerjan's wisdom entry? 02:29:41 this allows more refined safe type coercions 02:29:47 `` dowg oerjan | wc -l 02:29:56 177 02:29:57 It happens often enough. 02:30:12 that is a problem in its own right, surely 02:32:55 what's a knite? 02:33:39 ais523: these days kinds are also types, as part of the (incomplete) project to make haskell dependently typed. and types whose own kinds are * are themselves kinds. 02:34:09 (* is its own kind, which makes the type logic inconsistent but goldfire swears that's fine) 02:34:14 making Haskell dependently typed sounds like a bad idea 02:34:39 even languages that are designed from the outset to be dependently typed struggle with having dependent typing 02:35:11 and Constraint has been there for a while, after ghc got support for making classes and the like into type arguments 02:36:17 (a class with parameters of kind k1, k2, etc. itself has kind k1 -> k2 -> ... -> Constraint) 02:36:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MARSHALL CHICKEN). 02:37:18 is it possible to make a class that takes constraints as arguments? I guess it would be? 02:37:25 although the syntax for that could be awkward 02:37:44 X y => y t => t a -> b 02:38:56 that's still mathematical, btw. the "how the Haskell implementation handles a type" you mention was added to make type coercions safe between types of equal representation 02:39:12 (it's the RuntimeRep argument to TYPE) 02:39:49 ais523: you certainly can. the second => would probably be a -> 02:40:14 or wait 02:40:35 i'm not quite getting the example you're going for 02:41:05 edwardk's constraints package surely has some examples. 02:41:48 hmm, that example's probably more complex than it should be 02:42:17 in fact, the Forall module i've contributed to has some. 02:42:51 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/constraints-0.9.1/docs/Data-Constraint-Forall.html 02:44:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:45:07 -!- augur has joined. 02:45:20 the main module also has some 02:45:40 of course the entire point of that package is to play around with this stuff 02:59:41 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:00:07 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:01:03 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:02:03 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:02:41 -!- puckipedia has joined. 03:02:52 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: I am a human. Humans need to sleep. Some humans, like me, do not want to sleep. They sleep anyway. kthxbye). 03:20:53 -!- trn has joined. 03:21:48 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 03:30:14 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:59:05 -!- augur has joined. 04:07:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:20:42 -!- augur has joined. 04:30:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:44:11 -!- augur has joined. 04:55:36 -!- imode has joined. 05:09:37 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 05:16:24 ...why is scott aaronson's blog comments suddenly full of videos 05:16:39 * oerjan hasn't decided whether he's complaining or not. 05:39:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:46:33 oerjan: I went to a Mill talk and the speaker was apparently in Trondheim for a while 05:48:46 shocking 05:49:01 I know, man 05:49:28 There needs to be a command to view wisdom/oerjan too 05:51:47 similar to `hwrl, i think 05:55:12 -!- Kaynato has joined. 06:00:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:07:13 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:18:35 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 08:31:06 -!- augur has joined. 08:50:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:05 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:09:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:09:37 -!- augur has joined. 09:13:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:18:04 -!- augur has joined. 09:35:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:35:35 -!- augur has joined. 09:39:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:40:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:35:07 -!- boily has joined. 11:45:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:04:04 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:04:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:07:44 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:11:44 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 12:13:19 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Client Quit). 12:25:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMMON CHICKEN). 12:38:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:10:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:14:50 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:29:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:34:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:40:06 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 13:40:30 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest22967. 13:41:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:41:12 -!- Guest22967 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 13:41:14 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 13:41:14 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 13:50:12 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:54:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:13:57 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:18:37 oerjan: probably wordpress stuff 14:23:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:28:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:36:09 -!- augur has joined. 14:40:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:44:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:51:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:04:58 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:05:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:16:27 . o O ( Coming for Halloween: The Google Skin Crawler. ) 15:16:52 -!- erkin has joined. 15:38:03 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:15:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:17:42 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:09 haha 16:19:02 -!- imode has joined. 16:25:09 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:31:36 hello 16:31:46 do you think Brainfuck Joust would be suited for this? http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2017-October/010261.html 16:56:14 -!- augur has joined. 16:57:16 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:22:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:38:52 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:49 -!- ATMunn has joined. 17:42:52 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:54:25 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:59:06 @metar lowi 17:59:07 LOWI 051650Z 27013G31KT 200V330 9999 FEW070 BKN120 22/03 Q1010 NOSIG 18:05:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:05:54 hmm, windy but approximately parallel to runway... boring ;-) 18:26:06 -!- tromp has joined. 18:26:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:26:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:26:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:37:22 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:45 * Taneb hello 18:44:16 Tanelcome 18:49:02 -!- tromp has joined. 18:51:30 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:11:38 -!- SigmundYx has joined. 19:12:59 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:48:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:51:58 -!- tromp has joined. 19:56:33 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:13:30 -!- augur has joined. 20:16:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:19:29 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:26:35 -!- augur has joined. 20:59:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:15:58 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:24:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:40:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:41:28 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:49:59 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:16:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:21:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:34:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:42 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:38:37 -!- augur has joined. 22:40:21 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:49:02 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:49:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:51:29 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:59:08 -!- tromp has joined. 23:05:09 -!- boily has joined. 23:13:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:14:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 23:15:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 23:15:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 23:15:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 23:17:41 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:21:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:54 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:35:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:45:27 @metar CYUL 23:45:27 CYUL 052200Z 24010KT 30SM BKN075 18/08 A2995 RMK AC7 SLP143 DENSITY ALT 500FT 23:45:30 @metar ENVA 23:45:30 ENVA 052150Z 25010KT 9999 FEW012 SCT020 BKN029 09/07 Q0997 RMK WIND 670FT 27018KT 23:57:46 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:52 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2017-10-06: 00:03:41 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 00:05:16 -!- SigmundYx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:07:16 -!- erkin has joined. 00:10:34 helloily 00:11:07 -!- augur has joined. 00:11:23 This is being so hype https://youtu.be/3Gs6laePLIw 00:18:42 QUINTHELLOPIA! 00:19:24 the hype is! 00:25:18 did you play the first one 00:26:05 -!- tromp has joined. 00:30:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:33:36 no. I know it exists, but I haven't. 00:45:49 oh 00:45:54 that sucks 00:46:06 sorry for youy 01:01:48 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:03:55 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:07:21 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:07:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:23:41 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:44:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NOBLE CHICKEN). 01:47:24 -!- imode has joined. 02:14:33 -!- tromp has joined. 02:18:55 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:51:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:58:48 -!- tromp has joined. 03:03:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:03:10 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: o/). 03:04:25 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:04:52 -!- zemhill has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:05:00 -!- zemhill has joined. 03:05:35 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 03:05:46 -!- Guest77438 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:06:14 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:06:40 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:07:39 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:08:03 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest31077. 03:08:12 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:09:02 -!- Guest31077 has changed nick to shikhin_. 03:09:08 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Changing host). 03:09:08 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 03:09:18 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 03:11:00 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 03:11:02 -!- pledis has joined. 03:12:37 -!- pledis_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:37 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:12:41 -!- pelegreno has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:13:03 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:13:34 -!- pelegreno_ has joined. 03:14:58 -!- sparr has joined. 03:15:12 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:16:01 -!- catern has joined. 03:17:23 -!- lambdabot has joined. 03:20:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:20:42 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:21:06 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest23865. 03:21:20 -!- Guest23865 has changed nick to shikhin_. 03:21:25 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Changing host). 03:21:25 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 03:21:35 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 03:22:42 -!- fractal has joined. 03:24:35 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:25:01 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 03:25:24 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest91856. 03:33:22 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 03:35:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:35:59 -!- Guest91856 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:35:59 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:36:13 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:36:18 -!- Bowserinator_ has joined. 03:43:02 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:43:19 -!- pelegreno_ has quit (Excess Flood). 03:43:20 -!- diginet has quit (Excess Flood). 03:43:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:43:37 -!- diginet has joined. 03:44:34 -!- pelegreno_ has joined. 03:46:00 -!- catern has joined. 04:30:47 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 04:46:56 -!- tromp has joined. 04:49:31 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:50:52 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:51:32 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:03:58 -!- imode has joined. 05:09:24 -!- clog has joined. 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:41:40 -!- tromp has joined. 05:45:58 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:10:23 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:26:52 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:41:45 -!- erkin has joined. 07:05:07 -!- augur has joined. 07:17:11 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 07:19:21 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Client Quit). 07:25:37 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:29:39 -!- tromp has joined. 07:34:20 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:43:15 -!- tromp has joined. 07:46:43 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 07:47:39 -!- erkin has joined. 08:07:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:07:57 -!- augur has joined. 08:13:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:24:26 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:33:02 > 1 09:33:05 1 09:33:14 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:36:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:36:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:46:35 -!- tromp has joined. 09:58:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:12:47 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:14:56 -!- tromp has joined. 10:31:27 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:33:44 -!- Guest77438 has joined. 10:34:16 `? invoke 10:34:22 invoke? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:34:23 `? invocation 10:34:24 invocation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:43:09 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:46:03 -!- tromp has joined. 10:48:35 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:13:49 -!- augur has joined. 11:18:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:21:21 -!- erkin has joined. 11:34:09 -!- boily has joined. 11:58:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 12:02:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ADDITIVE CHICKEN). 12:31:16 -!- ybden has quit (Quit: ybden). 12:31:45 -!- ybden has joined. 12:58:23 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:00:53 `? force 13:00:54 force? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:00:54 `? energy 13:00:56 energy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:00:56 ` ?power 13:00:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 13:00:58 `? power 13:00:59 power? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:04:26 -!- erkin has joined. 13:25:06 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:26 -!- erkin has joined. 13:31:06 -!- Mayoi has joined. 13:31:45 -!- erkin has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:31:55 -!- Mayoi has changed nick to erkin. 13:47:57 `? elf 13:47:58 elf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:47:58 `? elvish 13:48:00 elvish? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:48:00 `? elven 13:48:01 elven? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:48:02 `? elfin 13:48:04 elfin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:48:09 `? elves 13:48:10 elves? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:48:11 `? elfs 13:48:12 elfs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:00:54 elvish preshley? 14:05:45 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:24:08 In the toilets in this building, we have these toilet paper dispenser boxes that try to make it harder to steal the entire roll of toilet paper. These have the funny property that if they're half empty, then you can open them easily with the key by just reaching inside them with your hand next to the roll and turning the latch from the inside. 14:25:46 They should use this feature for the toilet cubicle *doors* instead of the toilet paper dispenser, so you don't have a manually operated latch on doors, but instead when someone is in the toilet, then the door is automatically hard to open from the outside, but when nobody is in, then anyone can enter easily. 14:28:31 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:31:44 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:31:44 -!- erkin has joined. 14:33:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:49:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:53:02 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 14:56:23 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 14:59:53 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:14:10 -!- augur has joined. 15:18:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:20:25 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 15:38:06 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:04:42 URLs are such a great invention. Before them, people gave human-readable descriptions like "available on the internet by anonymous ftp on somehostname" 16:23:56 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:25:59 -!- cyber4dude has joined. 16:30:09 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:35:40 b_jonas: but what more simple mechanism is there to ensure "hard to open when someone is inside" than a latch that can only be fastened by someone inside? 16:38:59 -!- cyber4dude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:40:55 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:41:29 Hi, did someone here mention they're reading Computer-Kurzweil 2? 16:41:55 -!- augur has joined. 17:02:52 -!- SigmundYx has joined. 17:04:40 -!- ybden has quit (Changing host). 17:04:40 -!- ybden has joined. 17:12:44 quintopi1: the latch only works if people actually close the latch. here, people are lazy, they don't close the latch when they're in, and they leave the door closed and the lamp lit when they exit the cubicle so you can't tell from those whether it's empty. 17:13:08 impomatic: dunno. you'll have to download all the logs and grep it or something. 17:13:33 there are some contradictory rumours that HackEgo may have a local copy and you can search there 17:29:50 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:36:17 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:47:28 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:55:41 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:04:25 jesus, is a ninth planet the same fucking deal as life on mars now, as in, pop journalists fixating on it and ignoring any explanations on why it doesn't exist? 18:05:30 -!- fungot has joined. 18:06:13 fungot! 18:06:13 int-e: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, the subject to provide for possible suspension of existing cooperation agreements. 18:06:22 longwinded fungot! 18:06:23 int-e: at the end of this year under the dutch presidency to focus on. in any event, the important thing at the moment, there is a risk of the death penalty as a first interim step, target values are set. the introduction of the euro. 18:15:10 -!- xkapastel has joined. 18:35:12 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:50:56 -!- imode has joined. 19:10:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:23:58 fungot: Where were you? 19:23:59 fizzie: there is a great sense of responsibility but it will still be accepted. amendment no 7. amendments nos 22, 23, 24 and 25 march in berlin is no reason for wanting, in the next few days will see demonstrators from all over the european aviation safety agency, which is called troubled waters. i would therefore ask the following question: in the committee on industry, external trade, research and energy has naturally consid 19:24:39 "in the next few days will see demonstrators from all over the european aviation safety agency" FWIW I don't think that'll be a terribly impressive demonstration. 19:24:54 How many people can they have there? 19:26:18 I mean 19:26:26 how often can you actually fly into france? 19:26:55 err it was berlin that had a bunch of airport strikes 19:33:39 <\oren\> well i mean even if there's an airport strike you can fly into another country and then take teh eurostar 19:37:46 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:42:00 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:06:49 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:08:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:21:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:31:06 -!- Bowserinator_ has changed nick to Bowserinator. 20:31:10 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 20:31:10 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:33:00 -!- fungot has joined. 20:35:15 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1). 21:06:14 -!- hakatashi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:47 -!- hakatashi has joined. 21:45:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:01:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:08:58 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:36 -!- ATMunn has joined. 22:13:26 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host). 22:13:26 -!- sparr has joined. 22:19:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:20:36 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:21:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:01 -!- augur has joined. 22:29:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:47 -!- augur has joined. 22:32:15 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 22:36:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:40:40 -!- augur has joined. 22:41:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:57 -!- Kaynato has joined. 23:04:43 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:20:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:36:02 b_jonas: the secret is to point and laugh at people every time you accidentally walk in on them. "HAHA! Look at you! You forgot to latch the door AGAIN! I can't believe you still haven't got the hang of this! Hey, everyone! So-and-so left the door unlatched! Come look!" 23:36:57 nah, that's mean. 23:38:15 a more good-natured solution would be to just put super soakers near the bathroom, and decree that from now on, if you manage to squirt someone with it while they're in the bathroom, they gotta toss a buck in the beer-fund jar. 23:38:21 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 23:38:29 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 23:38:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 23:38:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: It seems most convenient to apologise for my connection in the quit message, given how often it comes up… If I immediately reconnect, it's probably because I could send but not receive.). 23:39:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:49:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:57:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 2017-10-07: 00:54:41 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:09:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:24:20 -!- Kaynato has joined. 01:33:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:22:44 -!- augur has joined. 02:27:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:34:45 @metar ENVA 02:34:45 ENVA 062350Z 23018KT 9999 BKN032 06/03 Q1002 RMK WIND 670FT 24019KT 02:34:49 AUTUMN 02:42:05 `? weather 02:43:59 @metar KOAK 02:44:00 KOAK 070053Z 31006KT 10SM FEW180 25/03 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP146 T02500028 02:44:12 fizzie: please fix twh 02:44:27 hackGone 02:47:04 -!- xkapastel has joined. 03:03:30 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: I'm running out of ideas for quit messages :(). 03:04:17 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:07:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:10:00 -!- imode has joined. 03:11:50 -!- augur has joined. 03:12:01 -!- Kaynato has joined. 03:16:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:24:27 -!- SigmundYx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:32:37 -!- augur has joined. 03:37:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:51:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:52:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:54:01 killed the wrong tmux process by accident 03:54:10 (or inattention) 04:52:16 For a computer game I have started to make up (a puzzle game) I have made this palette: http://zzo38computer.org/img_1C/palette.png http://sprunge.us/IQCH The top row is PC colours, the right column is some extras (the bottom-right represents transparency), and the rest is the Hero Mesh palette (with a few alterations). 04:52:27 Do you think it is good? 04:53:02 Is your puzzle game compatible with CGA? 04:54:05 This one isn't. 04:54:09 Cale: I got my Super Mega book in the mail. 04:54:15 (Although I have made other computer games that are.) 04:56:12 . o O ( a very big book, i presume ) 04:58:57 (This new game is design to be similar to Hero Mesh, kind of, although many things which were I think mistakes or other problems in the design of Hero Mesh, that I can do them differently this time, in order to make it better and avoid some of the problems that Hero Mesh is have.) 04:59:18 Do you like Dangerous Dave? 04:59:20 DAVE.EXE 05:05:15 I do have that game in my computer, too 05:07:57 Do you like this? 05:08:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:10:27 How to save game? 05:11:29 Which game? 05:11:44 Dangerous Dave 05:16:50 I'm not sure you can save. 05:17:52 Does any version of DOSBOX support its own save state function? 05:18:39 I don't know. 05:31:22 zzo38: I've heard rumours of a hacked version that did that but it was, IIRC, not publically released 05:31:38 and wasn't really complete enough to handle more than one game, run on other people's computers, etc. 05:50:05 But there are other x86 virtual machines that support that. 05:50:09 And you can run DOSBOX inside them. 05:50:16 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:36:14 <\oren\> shachaf: would you not run freedos inside them directly? 06:37:10 You could do that too. 06:38:16 Assuming the other x86 virtual machine emulates any of the hardware you need, then I think it will work to just run FreeDOS directly (and might even work better in some cases) 06:39:40 I don't know why it'd emulate DOS-compatible hardware, though. 06:40:15 If it is emulating a PC, then it probably should emulate DOS-compatible hardware. 06:40:20 Gotta set your IRQs, man 06:40:49 (Otherwise it should hardly be called a PC) 06:40:50 Get that Sound Blaster Pro going 06:52:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:08:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:30:26 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:49:37 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:08:46 -!- augur has joined. 08:13:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:35:56 -!- erkin has joined. 08:46:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:31 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:11:15 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 09:13:48 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:20:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:22:59 -!- augur has joined. 09:26:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 09:27:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:34:30 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:39:45 -!- Remavas has joined. 09:40:34 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:54:22 -!- FreeFull has quit. 10:18:40 -!- augur has joined. 10:19:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:24:53 -!- augur has joined. 10:46:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:48:18 -!- augur has joined. 10:52:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:10:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:13:40 -!- augur has joined. 11:18:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:20:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:20:24 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:23:58 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 13:42:40 does anyone here remember continuous chess? or whatever it was called 13:43:18 I think maybe Phantom_Hoover invented it ?v? I wanna read the rules again, they were fun!! 13:53:35 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-01-06#230105PhantomHoover ... http://www.chessvariants.com/other.dir/continuouschess.html (which is different) seems to predate that though 14:24:39 -!- ATMunn has joined. 15:08:05 Hmm, I'm only aware of continuous go… which has an article devoted to it on Sensei's Library IIRC 15:09:08 https://senseis.xmp.net/?Variant https://senseis.xmp.net/?GoOnABoardWithoutLines 15:09:51 -!- imode has joined. 15:35:03 https://github.com/Property404/fetlang did that make its way to here already? 15:47:00 -!- augur has joined. 15:51:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:19:44 -!- grumble2 has joined. 16:19:51 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: the). 16:25:43 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 16:26:39 quintopia: that can't work. this is a big office building with people from lots of companies, and the toilets are shared among them and even with some guests. even if I could convince people in our company to follow those rules, I couldn't convince everyone else in the building to do that. 16:27:43 sounds horrible 16:27:45 zzo38: I ran most of the DOS games in bochs (although a few I've ran in dosbox because that old version of bochs couldn't handle the video card requirement or something). I think it has a snapshotting feature, but I never really tried. These days, you should try qemu instead if you want snapshots for old DOS games. 16:28:43 -!- grumble has joined. 16:28:58 zzo38: I have sucessfully snapshotted and restored the *disk* contents when the game is powered down, in fact the termbot (which connects IRC as a terminal to the DOS machine) can restore to a snapshot I made automatically. 16:29:08 s/game is/machine is/ 16:29:46 quintopia: no, I like that system. but I also know that people's opinion differs in that, some people prefer to have the toilet in the office, which they do have in the other building. 16:31:17 -!- grumble2 has left. 16:38:06 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:35:36 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:43:25 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:51:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:51:21 Argh! Why does the label of shoelaces always give a length longer than the actual measured length of the lace? 17:52:18 Because it is in different units of measurement, maybe? 17:52:21 Do they measure them, like stretched with high force? 17:53:00 -!- boily has joined. 17:53:01 zzo38: the label explicitly says "cm" 17:53:26 wob_jonas: O, it already says the units. Yes, maybe with high force. But, then, why should they do that? 17:58:11 I mean, the shoelace is not even the right order of magnitude to make the obligatory joke about males mis-sizing objects so they can brag about their twelve-inch penis. 18:00:54 ok, this other pair of laces at least has the right size 18:01:05 well, the right size for what's written on the label 18:09:57 as opposed to the right size for my boots 18:13:12 Sadly the store can't have shoelaces in every combination of material, thickness and shape, color and width, because that would be a really large number of combinations, so I just had to buy one that's close to right. 18:13:25 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:22:31 Ok, now I'm going to fix all the shirts that need sewing, either to close small holes or resew buttons. I have seven shirts here, but I think there's one more hidden somewhere. 18:24:03 -!- xkapastel has joined. 18:31:10 -!- fungot has joined. 18:40:34 * boily prods the fungot 18:40:35 boily: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the amsterdam treaty it would not be vaccinated but pre-emptively killed in a certain speculative event but i can, by the danish prime minister, mr fini, to help ensure that it is not a single religion that has not been mentioned before that we have had the opportunity to tell you for information purposes? i have no problems in sharing out money from public funds among yourselves. it i 18:56:37 Our internet has been glitchier as of late. 18:57:55 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 18:59:17 Wonder what's up with HackEgo. The socat instance has 100% CPU use. 18:59:28 IIRC, it's inside a restart loop, so maybe if I just kill it... 18:59:36 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:00:00 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:00:06 That's better. 19:00:45 ^botsnack 19:00:45 Oh nom nom nom! 19:00:49 `botsnack 19:00:55 ​>:-D 19:14:15 I think maybe Phantom_Hoover invented it ?v? I wanna read the rules again, they were fun!! 19:14:17 yes i did 19:14:32 frankly it was more an exercise in making the rules work than a game 19:19:14 reading these logs now, yessss this is so good. I vaguely remember a summary existing at some point 19:19:19 `quote glurk 19:19:20 677) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. 19:19:58 the one thing that always irked me was that my original goal of having real chess as a strict subset didn't quite work 19:20:18 because you couldn't e.g move a bishop northeast with a piece to the north and a piece to the east 19:20:38 you could easily solve that by shrinking the pieces in their squares a bit but that was inelegant enough not to satisfy me 19:21:08 that seems to be what That Other Continous Chess does 19:47:27 -!- augur has joined. 19:51:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:52:06 -!- j-bot has joined. 20:02:06 Why does ! in visual mode in vim always operate linewise even if the selection isn't linewise? 20:14:49 shachaf: cool! I should expect something soon then :) 20:25:16 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:30:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:45:10 I generally in TeX are not using the \loop command, which clobbers \next, but instead, can use macros that (if called \next, for example) might end with something like: \ifnum\xyzzy=42{\let\next}\fi\next in order to break the loop in case the condition is true. Do other people do this? 20:49:45 -!- augur has joined. 20:51:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:54:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:56:16 -!- augur has joined. 21:03:35 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:06:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:08:05 -!- augur has joined. 21:25:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:27:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:59 -!- Kaynato has joined. 21:45:23 -!- HAL100 has joined. 21:45:45 -!- HAL100 has quit (Client Quit). 21:46:15 -!- augur has joined. 21:47:11 -!- HAL100 has joined. 21:47:40 -!- HAL100 has left. 21:48:47 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:49:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:07:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:07:45 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:22:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:26:31 -!- augur has joined. 22:40:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:51:08 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:57:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 22:57:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:01:42 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:04:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:09:26 -!- imode has joined. 23:28:03 -!- jaboja has joined. 2017-10-08: 00:08:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ZAMBONI CHICKEN). 00:16:03 Why do they say pi is wrong? I will agree tau is a much better idea, but that doesn't make pi wrong. (I also prefer to call tau the "period of trigonometric functions" instead of the "circle constant", but that is a different question anyways.) 00:26:05 Because the people saying this are wankers 00:26:14 says this impartial observer 00:26:17 -!- Guest77438 has changed nick to Slereah. 00:31:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:44:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:15:51 "trigonometric function" is such a ridiculously complex concept when compared to "circle" 01:16:45 also, tan is a periodic trigonometric function, but it's period is pi 01:16:57 s/it's/its 01:22:25 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:22:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:10:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:17:48 TIL that ^V puts Kate in VI mode so it uses all VI keybindings. 02:17:50 by accident 02:19:29 zzo38: because "pi is wrong" is a much better attention-grabber than "mathematical pedagogy surrounding circles and trigonometry becomes quite a bit simpler and more effective when we focus attention on the radian measure of a full circle" 02:19:47 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 02:21:01 YIL that loops in 3D rotation space have parity. 02:21:19 Suppose I take an object and turn it around 360 degrees. I just put the object through an odd rotation. 02:21:33 Suppose I turn it around 360 degrees, and then, once again, I turn it around 360 degrees, in any direction. 02:21:38 That's an even rotation. 02:22:20 Any even rotation can be continuously deformed into the identity rotation--the one where you just leave the object alone and don't turn it at all. 02:22:23 Odd rotations cannot. 02:29:23 what 02:29:46 a 360 degree rotation around any axis *is* the identity rotation 02:30:30 Yeah, I'm kind of using the word "rotation" wrong. 02:30:38 What I really mean is "path in rotation space". 02:30:54 ah 02:31:01 Suppose I turn an object 360 degrees, then turn it 360 degrees again. That's an even path-in-rotation-space. 02:31:21 Any even path-in-rotation-space can be continuously deformed into the identity path-in-rotation-space. 02:31:36 Anyway, I just got hit by a wave of sleepiness. 02:31:53 So I'm gonna go home, vacuum some fleas, and go to bed. 02:32:01 Night, all. 02:32:25 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:32:50 -!- ATMunn has joined. 02:44:07 -!- xkapastel has joined. 03:06:04 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: :)). 03:21:22 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 03:30:03 Bland Chess (which is my brother's idea) is not quite the true subset of FIDE; some moves are legal which might not be legal in FIDE because they would put yourself into check if the game was FIDE. 03:31:19 (Bland Chess is a chess variant where all diagonal moves are prohibited, although knight moves are still possible.) 03:54:25 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:12:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:54:58 is bfjoust solved? is there much room for improvement in bots? 05:26:01 I don't know 05:39:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:55:55 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 06:12:33 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:19:59 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:47:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:58:51 xkapastel: it's kind of rock-paper-scissory, so it is always possible to beat the hill 06:59:13 just figure out something that most of the current jousters are doing wrong and exploit it 07:00:02 i think that it is, in fact, currently possible to beat everything on the hill on every tape length--it's been done before as I recall. 07:02:01 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:10:40 Now I made the program to draw a polygon onto an existing picture (the polygon does not have to be entirely within the boundary of the picture). 07:43:13 Please tell me if this document is good: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ff-dntsc 08:35:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:14:19 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:39:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:43:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:43:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 09:43:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:39 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:35:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:36:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:51:21 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:16:01 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:24:51 -!- augur has joined. 11:29:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:30:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:41:55 -!- Neo1 has joined. 12:59:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:59:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:42:58 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:00:35 -!- fungot has joined. 14:00:45 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 14:10:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:24:02 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:29:03 -!- Neo1 has quit (Quit: Neo1). 15:00:31 -!- erkin has joined. 15:32:46 -!- boily has joined. 15:36:28 `5 w 15:36:47 1/2:alphabet//Alphabet is a system of writing invented by Google. \ 🐚//(1+sqrt(5))/2 hth \ gblh//Gblh but less helpful. \ hth//hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. \ dark water//Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imaginati 15:36:48 `n 15:36:49 2/2:on. 15:43:44 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 15:45:16 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:06:50 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:37:50 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:55:28 -!- erkin has joined. 17:28:20 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: Oh no, default quit message? D: (Either I'm lazy or something bad happened)). 17:29:14 -!- ATMunn has joined. 17:39:14 -!- xkapastel has joined. 17:59:11 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:01:21 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:01:48 -!- Melvar has joined. 18:23:19 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:24:40 -!- fungot has joined. 18:46:39 -!- Melvar` has joined. 18:47:05 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:52:30 -!- augur has joined. 19:07:07 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:22:44 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 19:24:40 -!- imode has joined. 19:30:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:36:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:45 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 19:45:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:56:42 -!- augur has joined. 20:16:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:38 -!- augur has joined. 20:20:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:36 -!- orby has joined. 20:41:44 Greetings 20:42:50 Has anyone put any serious thought into whether or not harmful brainfuck is turing complete? 20:43:07 It's actually quite interesting imo 20:45:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:47:40 -!- augur has joined. 20:50:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:59:51 Hmmm. I look at it and I think, yeah, it probably is. 21:00:21 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 21:00:24 No obvious obstacles to Turing-completeness. 21:00:41 afternoon 21:01:09 I think it certainly might be, but it's not immediately clear how to do things like loop n times 21:01:51 Hey moony 21:01:54 Actually, it's not obvious that "initial setup" is possible. 21:02:28 'harmful brainfuck'? Link me. Sounds intresting. 21:02:44 Like, suppose I want to initialize the first 128 cells to 128 in a reasonably concise way. 21:02:49 or rather, i'll link myself. 21:02:50 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Harmful_Brainfuck 21:02:57 or not 21:02:59 Or just... 21:03:14 I mean, it's not immediately obvious that it's even possible to jump back to the beginning of the program. 21:03:20 -!- laufen has joined. 21:03:34 And to subsequently continue in a reasonable manner. 21:03:55 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:04:42 Even something as simple as a conditional jump seems tricky 21:05:50 Now I made program converting Netpbm formats into farbfeld (I already had the program converting the other way; now I have both way) 21:05:50 Say we want to jump if the current cell is zero and otherwise not 21:05:59 You could do a conditional jump via, well, trampolines. Just think of it how a GPU programmer might think of it, it looks like it'll become clearer that way. (GPU programming has no conditionals, or at least it didnt for a long time) 21:06:23 orby, that case seems impossible, tho. ): 21:06:40 Well, you don't need that kind of conditional jump, though. 21:06:56 You could, say, represent false as 64 and true as 128. 21:06:57 Yeah, I suppose not 21:07:16 As long as you can implement logic gates and whatnot operating on that, you're pretty golden. 21:07:27 ^ 21:07:38 Hmm, yeah you've got the right idea 21:07:54 But it would be nice to be able to simulate constant jumps. 21:07:55 a simple NOT gate can perform boolean logic. (My proof? Minecraft's redstone torches.) 21:08:12 -!- augur has joined. 21:08:12 a simple not gate looks possible here 21:08:16 and it probably is. 21:08:43 if you can prove a boolean notgate exists, its turing complete. 21:08:50 and thats only one way to do it. 21:08:52 You can simulate constant jumps by just keeping particular constant values nearby the tape pointer... as long as you can set up those constant values in the first place. 21:09:15 Surely the redstone torches aren't *just* a NOT gate. Like, they can have multiple inputs, right? 21:09:15 Warrigal_, +++. 21:09:43 Warrigal_, not directly. Altho, good point. Wasnt thinking about that part :P OR and NOT. 21:09:44 If all you have is NOT gates and composition, then there are only two functions you can make. 21:10:00 or and not is functionally complete though 21:10:09 Yup. 21:10:16 but you need more than functional completeness to be turing complete of course 21:10:16 * moony wracks brain 21:11:42 i'll just step out for now. Too many videogames. *wonders how minecraft computers are turing complete with only NOT and OR) 21:12:12 I too have heard that minecraft computers are turing complete, but I don't know much about how they work 21:12:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:13:05 I think harmful brainfuck is especially interesting because it seems like there is ample room for minimization 21:13:13 which is a bit of a fetish of mine 21:13:24 uhh. ok. 21:13:43 * moony almost imagined how that could be fetishified. 21:13:47 haha 21:13:51 figure of speech 21:14:33 Off the bat we can drop - because the cells wrap around 21:14:50 -!- laufen has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:14:55 and we can combine >+ 21:15:07 which brings it down to 3 commands pretty easily 21:15:26 I'm wondering if it's possible to combine < and * 21:16:22 oh no. a minimizer, hide before he minimizes you! 21:16:49 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:50 mwahahaha 21:17:25 hey, wait i have bait for him. orby, here, go minimize Javascript. 21:17:53 eval 21:17:54 done 21:18:10 heh 21:18:23 orby, now try and outdo JSFuck. 21:18:35 haven't seen that, in the wiki? 21:18:44 yes. 21:19:16 https://esolangs.org/wiki/JSFuck 21:19:40 -!- augur has joined. 21:20:25 that's pretty awesome 21:27:15 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:31:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:47:09 -!- Soni has joined. 21:48:06 new favorite esolang: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ecstatic 21:48:10 I like whitespace 21:48:12 > ...Minor setback 21:48:15 :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘...’ 21:48:25 oh, sorry lambdabot 21:48:43 valid lua string literals can contain valid whitespace 21:49:11 (without it becoming part of the string) 21:49:38 http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html 21:49:42 look for "\z" 21:49:46 same in the lua 5.3 manual 21:50:04 sadly it doesn't work in lua 5.1 21:50:29 (now if only whitespace could be used in making malware...) 22:04:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:06:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:52 Say, that reminds me of a quirk of Lua I found out about recently. 22:08:09 Lua is one of those rare languages where statements don't need explicit terminators *and* whitespace doesn't matter. 22:09:22 So... 22:09:25 This is valid Lua code: 22:09:27 x = true (print)(x) 22:09:30 It prints "true". 22:09:34 But... 22:09:54 Well. 22:09:58 This is also valid Lua code: 22:10:02 x = true y = true (print)(y) 22:10:05 Also prints "true". 22:10:18 This, on the other hand, is a runtime error: 22:10:23 x = true y = x (print)(y) 22:11:25 "x = true y = true (print)(y)" is parsed as "x = true; y = true; (print)(y)", whereas "x = true y = x (print)(y)" is parsed as "x = true; y = x(print)(y)". 22:11:48 So you get the error "stdin:1: attempt to call global 'x' (a boolean value)". 22:12:19 This gives the same runtime error: x = true x() 22:12:27 But this is a syntax error: x = true true() 22:13:34 The reason for all of this is that it's syntactically illegal to use a boolean literal as the function in a function call. 22:14:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:18:52 useful. 22:20:42 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:24:21 Warrigal_: x = print (function() end)() does not do what you think it does 22:27:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:27:47 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:29:35 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:29:35 -!- erkin has joined. 22:29:54 -!- Caesura has joined. 22:32:28 The OASYS compiler doesn't even have explicit terminators (nor does it need parentheses or commas around function arguments, and actually doesn't even accept commas), so if you name a property the same as a global variable or method or whatever, you can have something going wrong. 22:33:21 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:35:22 -!- Soni has joined. 22:35:26 power went out 22:39:12 Soni: I think it does do what I think it does. :D 22:39:29 Warrigal_: and what's that? 22:39:30 I think it calls print with function() end, then calls the result with no arguments, then assigns that result into x. 22:39:41 yeah 22:39:47 Except I think that the second call will produce an error and so the third thing won't happen. 22:39:49 it's really annoying when you love anonymous recursive functions 22:45:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:52:06 -!- imode has joined. 22:57:06 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:07:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:24:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:24:38 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 23:31:57 -!- augur has joined. 23:36:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:44:12 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:54:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 23:55:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 2017-10-09: 00:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 00:00:25 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:03:27 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:09:22 -!- augur has joined. 00:15:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:15:47 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:04 -!- tromp has joined. 00:22:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:27:31 -!- erkin has joined. 00:31:41 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:54:55 -!- tromp has joined. 00:59:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:59:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:35:02 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:48:59 -!- tromp has joined. 01:53:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:53:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:57 -!- augur has joined. 02:24:48 -!- Soni has quit (Excess Flood). 02:25:14 -!- Soni has joined. 02:29:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:49 -!- augur has joined. 02:43:38 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:00:33 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:21:02 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:36:56 -!- tromp has joined. 03:41:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:57:29 -!- Soni has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:31:32 -!- tromp has joined. 04:36:15 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:42:09 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 05:07:43 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:08:42 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:35:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:49:11 Now I made a program to encode XZIP picture library format (I had previously written the decoder). The format is so obscure that these might be the only programs in existence that support this format (although Infocom probably used to have others, but they have been lost). 05:50:02 (Also, only a single file of this format exists, as far as I know, called "font2.dat".) 05:56:31 This "font2.dat" file contains five pictures: "knife.qqq", which has a bad drawing of a knife, and the text "ZORK A New Beginning"; "tiny.qqq", which is a 23x11 picture which is blank except for a stroke on the left; 05:57:42 "circles.qqq", which has some circles, the text "CIRCLES" (including the quotation marks) and "This is an example of a title"; "maze.qqq", which has a spiral with a house in the middle, and what I think is a bad drawing of a mouse, labeled "Mickey"; and "water.qqq", which is a bad drawing of some water. 06:00:39 -!- tromp has joined. 06:01:17 -!- test has joined. 06:01:40 -!- test has changed nick to Guest31646. 06:14:49 -!- Guest31646 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:16:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:35:34 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:47 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:25:15 -!- tromp has joined. 07:26:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:29:54 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:30:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:42:58 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:07:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 08:23:14 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 08:39:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:39:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:59:40 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 10:00:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:03:09 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:03:21 -!- heroux has joined. 10:47:24 -!- tromp has joined. 10:54:49 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 11:03:35 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:04:19 -!- tromp has joined. 11:40:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:46:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:51:41 -!- tromp has joined. 12:25:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:09:09 zzo38: so it uses logo-like syntax? 13:15:36 `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/ 13:15:41 that doesn't exist, right? 13:15:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found 13:53:48 -!- someone_ has joined. 13:56:06 -!- someone_ has quit (Client Quit). 14:23:10 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:40:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:11:09 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:15:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:30:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:45:04 -!- imode has joined. 15:45:43 -!- Caesura has joined. 16:06:48 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:24:09 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:25:43 -!- tromp has joined. 16:30:09 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:33:58 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:56:30 -!- xkapastel has joined. 17:12:21 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:33:48 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 17:38:45 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:40:34 b_jonas: So what uses logo-like syntax? The pictures I described are a binary file. The encoder/decoder is documented at: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffxzip 17:48:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:46 zzo38: I didn't mean the image compression. " The OASYS compiler doesn't even have explicit terminators (nor does it need parentheses or commas around function arguments, and actually doesn't even accept commas), so if you name a property the same as a global variable or method or whatever, you can have something going wrong." 18:00:28 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:01:40 b_jonas: I don't know logo syntax, so I don't know. 18:02:12 However, here is an example program: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#OASYS_.28OAC.29 18:03:11 (All of the line breaks are optional; it doesn't care about line breaks.) 18:03:41 zzo38: close enough then, for my purposes 18:03:42 thanks 18:08:15 It also does no optimizations; duplicate string literals will be given different index numbers, and if a "verbs" list contains a variable name, the variable name will be placed into the vocabulary list even though at runtime it won't accept any phrases containing the variable name as valid input. 18:11:09 The code below that one is pretty much the same thing but a different programming language that compiles into the same binary format, but the result is somewhat more optimized; the first code compiles "value == -1 or value == 256" into the two checks followed by an OR and jumps past the code if true, while the second one checks those two conditions and jumps part the RP (return from procedure) if either is true. 18:13:07 (The OASYS compiler has no reserved words either) 18:14:02 `? joke 18:14:06 Jokes are no drug. 18:14:44 zzo38: does it have user-defined functions with prefix syntax and arbitrary arity? user-defined two-argument functions with infix syntax? 18:14:48 `? golf 18:14:49 Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke. 18:17:04 b_jonas: There are only methods, although all classes share the same methods. All methods other than init must be called with an object to the left, and the arguments to the right. (In the case of init, the object to the left is allowed to be null.) When the user invokes a method without using a comma, the value of the global variable "player" is used as the "this". 18:17:55 I see 18:18:02 If a comma is used, then the part before the comma is resolved as a class name, the method "select_addressee" (or "&#" in OAA) is called on every object of that class until it returns nonzero, and then uses that object as the "this" of the method named after the comma. 18:18:07 then I was wrong, it's not like logo syntax 18:19:20 There is also no forward declarations; you must define a function before another function that calls it can be defined. 18:28:05 (Also, the picture format I described above isn't compressed) 18:39:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:07:13 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:40:32 -!- tromp has joined. 19:44:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:51:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:01:17 -!- Kaynato has joined. 20:06:24 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 20:14:42 -!- Remavas has joined. 20:21:59 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:41:19 -!- tromp has joined. 20:45:58 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:07:28 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:10:17 -!- Kaynato has joined. 21:13:20 -!- tromp has joined. 21:15:55 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:38:03 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:38:22 -!- tromp has joined. 21:42:37 -!- imode has joined. 21:59:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BREATH CHICKEN). 22:01:13 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:48 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:18:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:19:31 My GURPS character has a "Enemies" disadvantage, and in this case neither he nor I know who they are, but I wrote down on a paper, some list of the possibilities. 22:19:39 (These aren't all of the possibilities, but some.) 22:34:20 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:46:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:50:37 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:52:25 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:56:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:57:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:57:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 22:57:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:02:22 -!- tromp has joined. 23:02:49 -!- orby has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:06:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:08:22 -!- xa0 has quit (Quit: Divided by zero). 23:17:05 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:17:45 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:19:05 -!- augur has joined. 23:21:45 -!- tromp has joined. 23:26:01 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:26:27 - A group of Infinity or Centrum agents who believe Ziveruskex known the Secret (or will soon find it or help someone to, somehow) and wish to discredit, recruit, kill, memory erasure, go to Coventry, or some such. 23:28:05 - A case of mistaken identity. A thief of same species stole the man's stuff. 23:28:18 Do you like this? I have more, too. 23:31:53 - Ziveruskex had previously eaten some of the man's blood (or that of his horse, relative, etc) and now he wants revenge. 23:32:09 - Someone wants to steal Ziveruskex's spellbook, and/or possibly other stuff too. 23:32:16 - They want to play chess, to the death. 23:33:39 - Ziveruskex is the first character of this species the observer has seen and now they try to examine him too closely. 23:33:58 - They want human will be best at mathematics and science, and want to stop these monster to be too good at it. 23:34:20 - Some magic or psychic control went wrong, and due to Ziveruskex's Truename, now they want to attack or seek Ziveruskex instead of what was intended. 23:37:02 - It is Bob's boss, who wishes to make Ziveruskex's job more difficult (Bob may be secretly in on it, or maybe not). 23:37:18 - Ziveruskex's wing (or antenna or other body part) is exactly the size they need. 23:37:54 - A librarian who owns a library Ziveruskex had previously entered wants to force him to pay the entry fee, even though nobody else has ever been charged before. 23:38:10 - It is the Catholic Church. (Maybe they want to get him because he wrote something.) 23:38:12 That is all. 23:38:20 Do you like this? 23:54:25 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:55:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:56:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:56:57 -!- augur has joined. 2017-10-10: 00:16:59 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:20:05 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:27:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:31:00 -!- erkin has joined. 00:42:54 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Peer. 00:42:58 -!- Peer has changed nick to shikhin. 00:47:59 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 00:48:45 -!- Remavas has joined. 00:51:29 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:55:31 -!- tromp has joined. 00:59:58 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:07:40 -!- Remavas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:58 -!- Remavas has joined. 01:11:13 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:14:20 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:49:51 -!- jaboja has joined. 01:56:16 -!- tromp has joined. 02:00:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:12:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:15:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:17:47 -!- augur has joined. 02:20:06 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:20:34 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 02:21:47 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:22:05 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:22:22 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:22:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:57:06 -!- tromp has joined. 02:57:33 Finally, I got the highlighting of trailing spaces in vim to work the way I wanted it to. 03:00:09 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: Oh no, default quit message? D: (Either I'm lazy or something bad happened)). 03:01:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:02:50 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:06 -!- augur has joined. 03:06:15 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:09:37 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:15:29 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:25:17 (Doing this involves using the "conceal" mechanism.) 03:35:18 -!- Remavas has joined. 03:39:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:40:45 -!- augur has joined. 03:56:17 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:57:50 -!- tromp has joined. 04:02:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:15:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:15:22 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 04:15:46 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:29:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:32:50 -!- augur has joined. 04:36:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:20 -!- tromp has joined. 05:04:07 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:11:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:12:24 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:25:57 -!- xa0 has joined. 05:33:19 * oerjan releases the crickets 05:37:52 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:41:16 oh no, fungot is afraid of crickets :( 05:48:24 -!- augur has joined. 05:55:30 -!- fungot has joined. 05:59:37 Are you sure? 06:07:57 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:08:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:13:17 -!- augur has joined. 06:27:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:33:38 -!- tromp has joined. 06:41:01 -!- augur has joined. 06:45:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:46:16 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:01:14 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:12:04 -!- augur has joined. 07:16:01 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:16:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:37:24 -!- augur has joined. 07:46:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:47:31 -!- Remavas has joined. 07:47:34 -!- augur has joined. 07:50:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:51:35 -!- augur has joined. 07:57:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:06:35 -!- augur has joined. 08:09:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:12:41 What (if any) is the syntax for comments in XPM2? 08:13:05 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:16:11 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:19:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:20:40 -!- tromp has joined. 08:50:45 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:13:17 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:29:28 -!- tromp has joined. 10:00:58 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:34 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:29:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:29:49 -!- augur has joined. 10:34:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:40:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:01:50 -!- tromp has joined. 11:06:25 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:14:20 -!- augur has joined. 11:18:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:30:36 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:34:44 -!- boily has joined. 11:42:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:46:56 `5 w 11:47:05 1/2:xml//XML stands for "X-treme Mega Language (of Awesomeness)" \ ub//ub is a saner hub. \ dynamic-unwind//dynamic-unwind is just like dynamic-wind except that it's a different sort of weather. \ tur//To tur is not to flas. \ elrond//Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individua 11:47:06 `n 11:47:07 2/2:lity and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves. 12:02:29 -!- tromp has joined. 12:26:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMPROBABLE CHICKEN). 12:40:30 alias you_have_outlived_your_use=exit 12:48:05 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:57:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:50:52 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:52:14 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:12:12 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:16:39 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:19:18 -!- Soni has joined. 14:19:31 is bdasm a thing yet? 14:25:58 badly designed assembler? 14:39:09 some people never learn 14:41:45 -!- LKoen has joined. 14:42:52 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:43:46 @google spnl 14:43:56 http://www.spnl.org/ 14:43:56 Title: Society for the Protection of Nature in Lebanon – Strives to conserve biodi... 14:56:39 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:01:35 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:05:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:16:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:18:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:40:57 -!- erkin has joined. 16:20:42 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:22:32 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:30:48 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:33:31 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:36:22 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:40:08 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:42:23 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:43:24 -!- tromp has joined. 16:44:44 -!- heroux has joined. 16:44:52 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:47 -!- Remavas has joined. 16:52:12 int-e: I'd ask for Organized Assembler but that one is too obvious 16:55:27 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:58:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:59:05 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:10:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:30:19 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:31:42 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 17:33:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:36:35 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:41:08 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:44:09 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:51:47 I wrote a program to make XPM file, supporting XPM1, XPM2, and XPM3, although it look like ImageMagick only supports XPM3 (it misinterprets XPM1 as XBM, and does not recognize XPM2 at all; even if the file format is explicitly specified as XPM it still doesn't work) 18:00:01 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:00:02 Do you like this? 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23:03:09 `5 w 23:03:53 1/2:i//I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM \ roborosewater//RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater \ hexham//Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico \ hyperbolic group//Hyperbolic groups are the best groups there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer. \ 23:03:54 `n 23:03:55 2/2: atrix//Atrix is a brand of hand cream. Not to be confused with atriq. 23:16:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:49 -!- augur has joined. 23:32:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:36:57 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 23:39:38 -!- tromp has joined. 23:44:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 2017-10-11: 00:03:29 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:14:02 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:25:05 -!- imode has joined. 00:28:00 -!- augur has joined. 00:33:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:29 -!- tromp has joined. 00:38:24 -!- augur has joined. 00:39:56 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:27 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:43:21 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 00:55:11 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:09:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:20:21 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:21:51 -!- ^v has joined. 01:27:05 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:28:09 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 01:29:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:30:57 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:36:48 -!- augur has joined. 01:40:33 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:40:48 -!- tromp has joined. 01:42:20 -!- ^v has joined. 01:45:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:46:16 -!- imode has joined. 01:49:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:04 fungot: are you vegetarian? 01:51:05 boily: mr president, the european union and, on the basis of article 100c of the treaty, insurance system reforms and policy are national responsibilities. emu leads to economic chaos, whilst proceeding with emu is precisely to go further than the commission's original proposal with regard to the convention. 01:58:17 helloily 01:58:37 i got a postcard 01:59:06 your t's are like e's and your g's are like z's 01:59:43 it took me some research to determine that "sizhes" was "sights" 02:00:09 (my mom deciphered it) 02:00:57 QUINTHELLOPIA! 02:01:07 <_<'... >_>;... 02:01:34 -!- augur has joined. 02:01:40 at least it got to destination! 02:03:14 `le/rn sizhes//You may need to adjust your sights to understand sizhes. 02:03:21 Learned 'sizhes': You may need to adjust your sights to understand sizhes. 02:03:43 `wisdom beer 02:03:44 That's not wise. 02:03:56 :'( 02:04:08 beer is great hackego 02:04:13 `? beer 02:04:14 beer? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:04:42 oh 02:05:15 `le/rn beer/beer never ships from quebec 02:05:15 Usage: `le/[/]rn // 02:05:30 `le/rn beer//beer never ships from quebec 02:05:33 Learned 'beer': beer never ships from quebec 02:06:52 v_v... 02:10:52 `le/rn beer/Beer never ships from Québec. 02:10:53 Usage: `le/[/]rn // 02:11:00 aurgh. 02:11:03 `le/rn beer//Beer never ships from Québec. 02:11:06 Relearned 'beer': Beer never ships from Québec. 02:11:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FABULOUS CHICKEN). 02:12:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:12:19 -!- augur has joined. 02:41:34 -!- tromp has joined. 02:45:58 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:58:29 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:01:30 -!- imode has joined. 03:02:58 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: I almost quit without making a custom quit message, rip). 03:21:35 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:22:21 -!- ocharles has joined. 03:42:22 -!- tromp has joined. 03:43:20 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:47:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:02:47 -!- trn has joined. 04:28:02 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:47:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:09:35 -!- tromp has joined. 05:10:56 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 05:13:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:59:52 -!- xkapastel has joined. 06:10:20 -!- tromp has joined. 06:14:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:18:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:20:58 -!- augur has joined. 06:28:33 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:29:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:31:59 -!- augur has joined. 06:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:00:21 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:06:07 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:11:54 -!- erkin has joined. 07:19:05 -!- Cale has joined. 07:33:24 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 07:36:08 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:44:47 -!- tromp has joined. 07:49:53 -!- atslash has joined. 08:08:32 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:22:56 `? taneb 08:22:58 Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions). 08:23:06 `? tanebventions 08:23:07 Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex. 08:23:36 `slwd tanebvention//s/sanity, /&Italian, / 08:23:39 tanebvention//Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex. 08:24:04 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:26:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:31:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:31:52 -!- tromp has joined. 08:39:53 -!- atslash has joined. 08:44:32 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:44:54 -!- atslash has joined. 08:47:03 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:09:07 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:11:23 -!- jaboja has joined. 09:24:34 -!- tromp has joined. 09:55:28 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:08:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:11:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:17:54 -!- augur has joined. 10:29:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 10:38:12 -!- tromp has joined. 10:49:46 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:53:18 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:59:44 -!- tromp has joined. 11:17:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 11:29:47 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:33:31 -!- rodgort has joined. 11:34:06 -!- boily has joined. 11:35:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:40:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:41:27 -!- Neo1 has joined. 11:42:23 come on everybody ) 11:42:32 what are you doing here? 11:55:19 things! 12:13:14 Profiting of my first day of holidays 12:13:23 (I'm sorting the science papers on my computer) 12:18:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:25:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BESIDES CHICKEN). 12:36:08 -!- fungot has joined. 12:44:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:52:29 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:54:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:59:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:02:50 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:23:41 -!- erkin has joined. 13:45:31 -!- tromp has joined. 13:46:51 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:49:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:02:18 -!- tromp has joined. 14:16:55 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:50:31 -!- LKoen has joined. 14:52:16 -!- Neo1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:07:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:07:48 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:13:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:43:22 -!- imode has joined. 16:01:30 -!- xkapastel has joined. 16:08:30 -!- tromp has joined. 16:12:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:21:42 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:26:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:27:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:33:36 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:37:16 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:37:51 -!- ATMunn has joined. 16:49:47 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! 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(www.adiirc.com)). 18:47:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:06:22 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:12:01 -!- tromp has joined. 19:44:26 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:00:19 -!- tromp has joined. 20:34:26 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:38:32 -!- augur has joined. 20:38:48 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:41:14 -!- Remavas has joined. 20:58:51 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:02:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:04:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:21:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:32:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:45:22 -!- fungot has joined. 21:49:40 -!- Remavas has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:51:27 -!- augur has joined. 22:05:15 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:05:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:16:06 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:58 -!- imode has joined. 22:32:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:44:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:47:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:05:14 -!- tromp has joined. 23:05:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:11:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:53 -!- boily has joined. 23:20:42 is multiset rewriting turing complete? 23:22:42 what definition of "rewriting" are you using? something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran is Turing-complete 23:22:59 and was accidentally rediscovered by oerjan as a rewriting-like system before he discovered it already existed 23:27:02 replacement rules, but not over strings. 23:28:45 Fractran's is literally just specifying a multiset to remove and a multiset to add in its place (with a command doing nothing if you can't do that) 23:28:53 that seems like the multiset equivalent of a string rewriting rule 23:29:18 mm, kind of. as in, you have a set of elements you're searching for on the right hand side, and a list of elements to replace them with on the left hand side. 23:29:39 "abc" -> "def" is equivalent to "acb" -> "fed", etc. 23:30:01 imode: this sounds like fractran, yeah 23:30:07 only the quantity of each element matters in the replacement, not the order. 23:30:15 this sounds even more like fractran 23:30:33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system 23:30:48 a more interesting example, but I'm not dealing with membranes. 23:41:20 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:51:19 it makes me wonder if the ordering of strings is even required. 23:51:33 to be turing complete, that is. 23:56:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:56:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 2017-10-12: 00:01:56 I'm tempted to just link you to Fractran again :-P 00:02:52 (note that evaulation order in Fractran doesn't matter for TCness; you can write programs so that only one rule at a time ever applies) 00:05:58 right, but fractran isn't quite like what I'm thinking. 00:06:09 it's not that equivalent. 00:07:57 how so? 00:09:20 well, fractran's state is a single number, while a multiset rewriting system's state is, well, a multiset. 00:09:26 it's very different. 00:09:27 abc -> def perfectly translates to 7*11*13/1*3*5 00:09:39 2*3*5 00:09:46 imode: convert it to a prime factorisation 00:09:55 the fact that you can treat that as a single number is mostly just coincidence 00:10:15 actual fractran programming uses the multiset view pretty much all the time 00:10:16 helloily 00:10:20 so you're just choosing primes as the alphabet. 00:10:24 aishello 00:10:28 himode 00:10:28 in fractran. 00:10:29 exactly 00:10:41 alright, I can see that. creative. 00:10:51 leibniz would be proud. 00:12:40 generalized collatz functions are p cool guys. they golf well and dont afraid of any computable n7mber 00:13:15 that however lends itself to larger and larger numbers which is rather inconvenient. 00:13:37 but that's really simple, actually. 00:14:01 ais523: whoa, I didn't know order wasn't required for Fractran 00:14:34 I can see why it doesn't, because prime factorization's order doesn't matter, and that naturally maps to a multiset. 00:14:58 I mean the order of instructions. 00:15:12 shachaf: it's required by the spec, but you can change that part of the spec and it still works 00:15:14 Or whatever those are called. Fractions. 00:15:17 Right. 00:15:21 fractrans. :P 00:16:01 I tend to program fractran and thue the same way, i.e. so that the order of evaluation is irrelevant to the program 00:16:22 fractran is actually probably a more convenient language, thue has bad wire-crossing-like problems 00:16:31 in that trying to get data from one end of the program to the other is a pain 00:16:36 you can do it, just normally need a huge number of cases 00:16:53 Since when do people talk about esolangs in here? 00:17:15 lol. 00:17:43 ais523: yeah that was my initial gripe. because ordering mattered you're essentially constructing a 1D CA with an arbitrary neighborhood. 00:17:50 hard to program in. 00:18:15 shachaf: it's more likely when I'm in here (admittedly, not /much/ more likely, and in this case imode started it) 00:18:20 I like ontopic discussion though 00:18:25 whereas an unordered set (or in this case, an unordered multiset) is more convenient. 00:18:56 it's not hard to take a unary representation of a number and double it for example, but in thue the representation becomes unwieldy. 00:19:53 actually in thue that's pretty easy if you have a marker at each end 00:19:59 just run a cursor along the number 00:20:04 |1 ::= 11| 00:20:21 and get the markers at each end to handle the cursor appropriately (they'll need to do something to fit this into your program's control flow) 00:26:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristica_universalis leibniz and godel have something in common, in that they fetishized about primes and their properties for uniqueness. :P 00:26:57 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:29:42 QUINTHELLOPIA, his523, imellode, mynamello, helloochaf. 00:29:58 boily: is there a bot capable of that in here? 00:30:18 I don't see what benefit a bot woudl have 00:30:29 although hackego is capable of just about anything as long as the output's a function of the input 00:30:54 automation is what keeps bored minds busy. :P 00:31:16 automating porthelloes isn't trivial. 00:34:17 its almost like correctly conjugating present tense verbs and deciding when to use an article on a noun simultaneously 00:35:05 boily has tried to describe his porthello algorithm and it mostly comes out "however sounds good to me" 00:35:19 something like that. 00:36:35 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:41:29 the algorithm only seems unclear in cases where the original word doesn't have exactly one "o" pronounced as such 00:48:57 -!- jaboja has joined. 01:04:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:04:56 -!- tellstogo has joined. 01:10:19 -!- tellstogo has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:21:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:27:40 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:41:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:46:39 and was accidentally rediscovered by oerjan as a rewriting-like system before he discovered it already existed <-- no, that's a misunderstanding, i had definitely heard of the fraction version (from the math institute's encyclopedia iirc) - i just had no idea what it was _called_. 01:46:55 oh, I see 01:47:01 so you called it something else 01:47:21 and included a symbolic format 01:50:16 (note that evaulation order in Fractran doesn't matter for TCness; you can write programs so that only one rule at a time ever applies) <-- istr we found out that was false at some point. 01:51:05 oerjan: oh right, now you mention it, perhaps I misremembered 01:51:24 in which case I've been spreading misinformation 01:51:34 (very slowly, on and off over the last several years) 01:51:49 the problem being that you can't prove, without some evaluation order restriction, that a particular element /isn't/ contained 01:51:53 in the multiset 01:52:45 whoa, just when I thought I was informed. 01:54:31 this is one of those proofs that you can remember how it works when you're reminded it exists, but be implicitly certain with no evidence that the opposite is true the rest of the time 01:55:01 heh 01:57:04 I guess it's because I think of the problem as being control flow (which is trivially fixed), not detecting zero 01:57:41 i don't remember 100% how the proof went 01:59:35 if a fraction can run at p**0 (* other factors) it can also run at p**n (* the same other factors) for higher n; this means that you can't set a value to 0 without already having a defined maximum value for it 01:59:42 that's not the full proof but it's the basic argument 01:59:47 and everthing else was just details from there 02:01:52 something like, if there's a non-halting computation then it must at some point produce a number divisible by a previous one. 02:02:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GUARANTEED CHICKEN). 02:02:40 and then _everything_ divisible by the previous one can avoid halting 02:03:58 oerjan: right 02:05:21 but there's something like a compactness argument hiding in the details, i smell 02:07:04 or perhaps it was linear algebra. 02:12:10 `hello testing 02:12:11 hello, World! 02:12:15 `hi testing 02:12:16 Hi testing. Hesting. 02:12:42 hm i vaguely thought there _was_ a porthello command. btwohily. 02:12:56 `ello testing 02:12:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ello: not found 02:13:00 hmph 02:13:11 `` cd bin; ls *ll* 02:13:12 8ball \ 8-ball \ 8ball \ allquotes \ dontaskdonttelllist \ don'taskdon'ttelllist \ hello \ hello-world-in-any-language \ llist \ roll \ tell \ wellcome \ willkommen 02:14:05 `` ls -l bin/8* 02:14:06 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 39 Oct 28 2016 bin/8ball \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 39 Oct 28 2016 bin/8-ball \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 10 Feb 10 2017 bin/8ball 02:14:35 `` ls -l bin/8* | cat -v 02:14:36 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 39 Oct 28 2016 bin/8ball \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 39 Oct 28 2016 bin/8-ball \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 10 Feb 10 2017 bin/8^Oball 02:14:49 hm right 02:15:02 `` diff bin/8{,-}ball 02:15:03 No output. 02:15:36 why is there a literal control-O in the name of that file? 02:15:49 that's a secret hth 02:16:16 -!- augur has joined. 02:16:51 `mkx bin/8-ball/8ball "$@" 02:16:51 usage: mk[x] file//contents 02:16:58 `mkx bin/8-ball//8ball "$@" 02:17:00 bin/8-ball 02:17:08 `8-ball did this work 02:17:08 It is decidedly so. 02:17:43 (i prefer that way of avoiding duplication because links have been known to break) 02:18:46 `` cd bin; ls *el* 02:18:47 autowelcome \ delquote \ delvs \ dontaskdonttelllist \ don'taskdon'ttelllist \ elcome \ hello \ hello-world-in-any-language \ help \ makelist \ makelistlist \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ relcome \ reload \ rwelcome \ tell \ velcome \ velkomin \ velkommen \ welcome \ welcome \ Welcome \ welcöme \ welkom \ wellcome 02:19:01 `` cd bin; ls *el* | grep -v elc 02:19:02 delquote \ delvs \ dontaskdonttelllist \ don'taskdon'ttelllist \ hello \ hello-world-in-any-language \ help \ makelist \ makelistlist \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ reload \ tell \ velkomin \ velkommen \ welkom \ wellcome 02:19:07 *sigh* 02:19:25 oh well i guess that was about all 02:19:44 `thanks oerjan 02:19:45 Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan. 02:19:55 `` cd bin; ls *port* 02:19:56 airport \ airport-lookup \ joustreport \ sport 02:20:00 that's probably what you're remembering 02:20:19 no, i recall something doing a more advanced attempt 02:22:34 oerjan: having been pranked, you've joined the ranks of the pranksters? tdh 02:23:20 it's a p good rank 02:43:33 eso idea: int : float :: interface : floaterface, now we just need to work out what a floaterface is 02:43:35 huh. so multiset rewriting is essentially just doing register machine operations.. 02:45:35 I guess a floaterface is mostly a generalization of an interface (can represent any interface as long as it's not too large), but also can represent partial interfaces, and becomes approximate in some cases? 02:47:23 I'm not sure how to related interfaces to integers 02:47:40 relate 02:47:56 I don't think interfaces are usually totally ordered 02:48:02 That could be interesting in itself 02:50:27 I just watched a youtube video without adblock on. There are "buy now" advertisements directly beneath the video now 02:55:26 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:56:42 . o O ( interface Foo extends NaN ) 02:56:46 `? italian 02:56:47 italian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:56:51 hm 02:59:42 `? welcome.it 02:59:43 welcome.it? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:01:53 doesthiswork: that's just one kind of ad youtube uses. afair it only does that when there isn't a full video ad. 03:02:14 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: /me slaps sleep around a bit with a large bed). 03:02:58 that i've noticed. 03:07:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 03:07:53 Taneb: please write welcome.it twh 03:14:52 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:16:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:43:18 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:46:22 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 03:53:51 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:56:20 -!- tromp has joined. 04:01:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:15:53 -!- MDude has joined. 04:24:51 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:28:01 -!- Soni has joined. 04:57:26 -!- tromp has joined. 05:02:17 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:22:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:44 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:39:09 -!- augur has joined. 05:41:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:42:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:47:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:52:59 -!- augur has joined. 05:55:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:55:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:58:12 -!- tromp has joined. 06:02:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:11:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:16:06 -!- augur has joined. 06:22:59 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:25:19 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:27:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 06:27:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 06:35:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:39:44 -!- augur has joined. 06:44:06 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 06:44:41 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:55:53 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:11:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:17:19 -!- tromp has joined. 07:21:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:15:07 -!- augur has joined. 08:39:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:43:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:43:44 -!- augur has joined. 08:48:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:50:32 -!- augur has joined. 08:51:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:54:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:59:09 -!- tromp has joined. 09:11:26 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:38:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:42:47 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:47:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:48:18 -!- augur has joined. 09:50:18 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:52:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:56:43 `? welcome 09:56:45 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 10:22:58 -!- tromp has joined. 10:27:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:31:07 -!- augur has joined. 10:35:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:45:21 -!- tromp has joined. 11:34:45 -!- boily has joined. 11:42:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:44:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:58:18 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:59:44 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 12:00:03 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 12:25:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLACIAL CHICKEN). 13:02:12 -!- tromp has joined. 13:19:17 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:03:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:07:35 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:25:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:38:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:39:35 -!- tromp has joined. 14:53:53 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:04:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:45:41 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:50:46 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:52:08 -!- tromp has joined. 16:31:49 -!- augur has joined. 16:37:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:38:25 -!- augur has joined. 16:46:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:46:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:51:03 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:02:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:10:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:20:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:25:25 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 17:35:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:36:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:39 -!- tromp has joined. 18:32:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:40:35 -!- imode has joined. 19:01:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:03:55 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:10:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:11:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:19:31 -!- augur has joined. 19:23:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:30:34 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:38:11 -!- imode has joined. 19:41:04 -!- augur has joined. 19:43:42 -!- tromp has joined. 19:55:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:02:23 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:02:36 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest95245. 20:17:44 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:21:49 -!- augur has joined. 20:23:25 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:24:04 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:25:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:29:56 -!- augur has joined. 20:33:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:38:14 -!- augur has joined. 20:42:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:49 -!- erkin has joined. 20:49:37 -!- augur has joined. 21:06:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:11:39 -!- augur has joined. 21:22:58 <^v> welp 21:23:04 <^v> i've mastered SKI calc 21:23:30 <^v> it's time to transcend existence into the esoteric realm 21:24:00 huh? is ski conscidered hard in any way? 21:29:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:20 <^v> myname, succ = S(K(S(S(K(S))(S(K(K))(S(K)(K))))))(S(S(K(S))(S(K(S(K(S))))(S(K(S))(S(K(K))(S(K(S))(S(K(K))(S(K)(K)))))(S(K(K))(S(K)(K))))))(K(K(S(K)(K))))) 21:29:28 <^v> all this does is take a church number and add 1 21:30:14 so? 21:30:28 <^v> its complicated af 21:30:57 i mean, yeah, i couldn't write it out freely, but conversion from and to lambda calculus is pretty easy 21:31:24 <^v> yeah i'm making my language convert lambda calc to SKI 21:33:44 <^v> if the existing output wasnt already horrendous 21:36:44 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 21:37:27 -!- Guest95245 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:02:40 -!- xkapastel has joined. 22:11:45 -!- augur has joined. 22:16:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:36:04 -!- brandonson has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:37:49 -!- augur has joined. 22:43:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:50:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:51:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:55:28 -!- augur has joined. 22:56:21 -!- boily has joined. 22:57:55 -!- tromp has joined. 23:09:30 that seems overly complicated, hmm 23:10:54 -!- Guest95245 has joined. 23:12:32 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:13:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:17:29 -!- augur has joined. 23:23:41 ^v: how about S (S (K S) K) 23:24:28 (which is much smaller than I expected, yay) 23:24:36 Converting lambda to SKI is trivial, though the hard part is finding an expression that's short 23:35:48 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:36:17 -!- joast has joined. 23:36:44 -!- joast has quit (Client Quit). 23:39:17 -!- joast has joined. 23:44:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:47:05 -!- augur has joined. 23:55:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2017-10-13: 00:24:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:12 shachaf: helloochaf. ysac has corrupted me; I whangjangle my food. 00:32:02 -!- augur has joined. 00:33:46 boily: do you suck at cooking. 00:34:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:34 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:08 -!- augur has joined. 00:37:24 imode: according to a panel of reliable sources, apparently not. 00:37:32 (even if my dashi is weak.) 00:44:20 boily: then you cannot whangjangle. you aren't qualified. 00:53:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 00:57:30 * imode wonders that, if multiset rewriting corresponds to working with register machines, what does regular set rewriting correspond to? 01:01:27 Machines with 1-bit registers? 01:02:18 that's kind of what I thought. loooooots of registers. :P 01:02:59 wonder if that's still TC, though. I imagine you could form rule 110 with that with some.. effort. 01:04:21 or build the semantics of a multiset rewriting system on top of that. 01:04:52 i.e treat a span of bits as one binary number and use that to represent one register. that'd be hellish. 01:05:16 A finite number of finite registers still isn't going to be enough on its own. 01:05:42 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:05:43 yeah. 01:06:02 but then you just keep expanding the number of possible symbols. 01:06:09 so you end up with a really large alphabet. 01:24:39 -!- danieljabailey has changed nick to Danieljabailey. 01:24:54 -!- Danieljabailey has changed nick to danieljabailey. 01:29:51 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:38:44 helloily 01:42:19 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 01:42:26 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:42:35 QUINTHELLOPIA! 01:43:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:45:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STUMBLING CHICKEN). 01:46:43 byeli 01:53:07 * oerjan wonders how official boily's panel was 02:55:41 Why is ImageMagick not reading XPM format 1 and 2? 03:02:05 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer (just kidding)). 03:09:08 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:45:49 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:13:00 -!- tromp has joined. 04:17:46 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:17:55 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 05:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:39:55 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:51:07 -!- imode has joined. 05:53:48 I wonder why FRACTRAN hasn't gotten as crazy a following as something like brainfuck. 05:54:15 you have to understand prime numbers to use it hth 05:54:26 * oerjan grins evilly 05:54:47 not.. really. you just have to understand that each prime is a unique symbol and choose your alphabet mapping to each prime carefully 05:55:02 that's actually the really simple part. the odd part is dealing with pattern matching on registers and shifting values around. 05:55:14 it's not hard to design a compiler that will do that kind of thing for you. 05:56:24 I mean you can take any fractran program, look at each fraction, extract the prime factorization of it, convert that into a suitable symbol set (or a set of registers), and build a macro language on top of the resulting (somewhat more legible) rewrite rules. 05:56:48 I would've expected that a GoL implementation would have surfaced eventually. kind of surprised that I haven't found one yet. 06:03:13 obligatory accompaniment to today's freefall comic http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2008/02/26/sand_wont_save_you_this_time 06:05:18 that is a extremely famous article 06:06:16 "For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes." good wisdom right there. 06:30:12 * imode wonders if fractran's rules can be unordered. 06:30:58 imode: oh you didn't see my comment the other day ... they cannot, although i don't remember exactly how the proof went. 06:31:39 oerjan: interesting. I wonder what modifications would be required to make them unordered. probably something akin to a P system. 06:31:54 where the resulting rewrites determine which classes of rules get applied. 06:33:31 well you need a way to say that a rule won't be applied if it's divisable by something. 06:34:08 so rule dependencies. 06:34:11 -!- erkin has joined. 06:34:25 or rather, inverse dependencies.. I guess. 06:34:45 "do this if these primes are present, but if these are, don't." 06:35:00 in some sense, fractran's linear order is the _simplest_ option for that. 06:35:17 yeah, because you can prioritize rules. 06:35:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system#Example_computation this is also an option. 06:51:21 parallel fractran. hmm. 06:52:12 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:54:03 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:59:53 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:00:29 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:02:02 One thing I like about FRACTRAN is that it doesn't seem like a programming language at all. 07:02:15 If you make the rules slightly more contrived it loses that. 07:02:23 fizzie: hm i suspect the wiki bridge has croaked 07:02:33 well, it's pretty much just unordered string rewriting. 07:02:37 `? wewlcome.it 07:02:39 uh 07:02:42 `? welcome.it 07:02:45 wewlcome.it? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:02:45 welcome.it? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:02:53 Taneb!! 07:03:08 are you sure Taneb knows italian 07:03:35 isn't it a bit too sexy language 07:04:05 https://twitter.com/Ngevd/status/918012736721883137 hth 07:04:45 Did Taneb invent modal logic? 07:05:11 possibly 07:06:17 hm Taneb seems to have aged. shocking. 07:16:21 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 07:28:36 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:41:45 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 09:05:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:27:37 -!- tromp has joined. 09:29:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:39:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:39:30 -!- augur has joined. 09:44:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:50:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:53:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:07:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:08:21 -!- augur has joined. 10:12:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:46:40 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:59:15 -!- tromp has joined. 11:18:11 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:34:47 -!- boily has joined. 12:00:04 -!- joast has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:03:11 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:03:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:08:13 `5 w 12:08:19 1/1:kallisti//kallisti is a former prophet swearing off his pastry deity. \ @//@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. \ cia//CIA sees it all. \ lens//A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra. \ fourth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom fourth The 12:24:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DOOR CHICKEN). 12:26:26 @tell oerjan It might've been because I had to restart HackEgo. Did the same for the bridge as well, maybe it works now. 12:26:26 Consider it noted. 12:40:50 -!- joast has joined. 13:08:38 -!- augur has joined. 13:12:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:13:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:26:17 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:26:40 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:49:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:56:28 fungot, in Greek mythology, is there such a thing as artifact weapon or armor forged by mortals, or do all of them have to be forged by a deity, usually Hēphaistos or Pallas Athēnē? 13:56:29 b_jonas: mr president, on a point of order, and i regret not having been used to ban tv advertising and indirect advertising. it has not yet put forward any reasoned objections within the 30-day period; secondly, certainty as to the future, within the meaning defined in the treaty. 13:59:10 the longwinded europarl style makes it abundantly clear that fungot cannot form any coherent thought. 13:59:11 int-e: i do not know for how long it will take shape exactly is still to be done to help us determine the real responsibilities of each of these points is new to us on the issue of alcohol, but also for all those who have flouted the rules in relation to the completion of the internal market. 13:59:39 (though arguably that is also true for many politicians) 14:00:44 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:03:19 -!- tromp has joined. 14:20:01 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:31:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:32:57 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:40:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:43:22 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:46:14 -!- hkgit03 has joined. 14:47:26 a 14:55:34 b 15:04:24 The next logical letter would be v of course. 15:05:16 abvgd? 15:05:38 http://oeis.org/A279619 15:06:21 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:08:23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDlaXrJOI4 hmmmm 15:08:48 Ah ^^ 15:08:51 logical. 15:08:54 strange stuff, but indeed it does include the russian alphabet. 15:09:35 `unidecode абвгд 15:09:36 ​[U+0430 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A] [U+0431 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BE] [U+0432 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER VE] [U+0433 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER GHE] [U+0434 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DE] 15:10:04 int-e: use the full alphabet. abvgdeëžzijklmnoprstufhcčšŝʺyʹèûâ 15:10:58 That is not the russian alphabet, is it? 15:11:42 hkgit03: it is, in ISO 9 transcription 15:11:47 I can see the resemblence 15:12:59 or maybe you want the serbian alphabet, a b v g d đ e ž z i j k l lj m n nj o p r s t ć u f h c č dž š 15:13:07 or one of the many other alphabets that start with a b v g d 15:13:08 Uhuh okay 15:13:33 Of course. That was exactly what I was going for. 15:15:48 abgde is a logical order for an alphabet 15:16:18 the abcde order should have a different name ;-) 15:17:33 int-e: the order is not really logical, more like traditional, inherited from the Phoenicians, and now various variants of it are used by tons of alphabets, sometimes multiple different orders for the same language 15:18:52 `? ameraval 15:18:53 ameraval? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:22:58 the battery of my mobile phone not only drains faster but also gets warm if I listen to music all day 15:23:29 still not too hot, just warm 15:25:53 -!- hkgit03 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 15:44:14 -!- tromp has joined. 15:50:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:04:13 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:08:46 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:08:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:24:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:55:45 -!- imode has joined. 17:03:30 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:18:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:26:26 -!- tromp has joined. 17:41:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:48:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:05:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:14:45 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:15:04 -!- tromp has joined. 18:21:57 I do not have the file "/usr/lib/X11/rgb.txt" in my computer. Is there another directory it may be under instead? 18:23:15 zzo38: try /usr/share/X11/rgb.txt 18:23:42 zzo38: these days unix distros put everything in usr that is shared among all machines of all architectures in /usr/share 18:23:59 and architecture-specific stuff only in /usr/lib and /usr/libexec 18:24:17 OK 18:25:03 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:25:16 I think it started back when this was used to spare disk space by mounting /usr/share and /usr through NFS, but mounting the same /usr/share on multiple machines, or something, but these days more and more stuff is split to multiple directories according to architectures, mostly so that you can have x86_32 and x86_64 libraries ran on the same machine or something, 18:25:27 so the share split turns out to be very useful. 18:26:06 Note that /usr has read-only data that can be shared among multiple machines of the same architecture in first place 18:26:24 data specific to one machine goes to /var or /etc 18:28:00 debian often patches install directories from upstream packages to conform to these directory structures 18:28:20 although most software these days already use the right directories anyway 18:29:02 and most allow overrides via make variables or configure options or something, because GNU encouraged that in the guidelines they sneakily put into the gnu make reference docs 18:29:44 but of course in most free software it's easy to modify paths in the source 18:30:36 The program I am writing doesn't actually need to find the file anyways, since if it is wanted the user will specify the filename explicitly anyways, but it is helpful to know where it is installed. 18:31:18 -!- xkapastel has joined. 18:33:07 (I am writing a program to read XPM pictures. I already wrote one to write XPM pictures.) 18:33:28 (In both cases, all three formats are implemented.) 18:34:54 ImageMagick supports only format 3, while Netpbm supports only format 1 and 3, it seems, and neither support monochrome mode. 18:37:42 do people even still use xbm and xpm pictures for anything? I thought those were formats for icons on machines with little memory and low bitdepth monitors. 18:38:11 XPM2 seems a reasonable format for using with a text editor, at least. 18:41:12 They can also be used including in C programs (except XPM2). 18:44:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:57:44 [wiki] [[Arrows]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53202&oldid=52782 * HereToAnnoy * (+31) wip 18:58:15 Looks like it's working again. 19:18:17 Once upon a time they were very useful as a lowest-common-denominator file format. 19:18:27 I'm not sure who uses it much right now, though. 19:21:09 <\oren\> pikhq: yeah the standard "output an image ad-hoc" format is PBM 19:21:13 still no word of a newIOCCC 19:21:50 PBM is a bit of an irritating format, though. 19:21:54 pikhq: As I mentioned, for including in C codes and to be suitable for editing with a text editor. 19:22:02 It *looks* simpler than it is. 19:22:16 zzo38: Well, yes, I know why you'd want to use it. :) I just don't know if anyone does. 19:22:19 For "output an image ad-hoc" I prefer farbfeld. 19:22:56 Though for outputting only, PBM is similarly simple. 19:23:14 (Although I wrote dvipbm before farbfeld was invented, and anyways the printer driver needs PBM.) 19:23:14 The file format just has some surprising complexity when reading it. 19:23:19 (comments, for instance) 19:23:38 pikhq: Yes, that is true, for outputting only PBM is simple enough (and supports multi-page, which is needed for using with printing). 19:24:48 I find PNM a bit limiting, so I prefer to write raw images, and send the metadata separately, such as in the command line of ffmpeg or imagemagick 19:25:04 and the same for reading it 19:26:00 b_jonas: Why won't you use farbfeld instead then? (ImageMagick does not implement farbfeld, but it ought to! Write a module for it if you want it) 19:26:06 PNM only supports one endianness and it's the wrong one, only supports grayscale or RGB, not other channel configurations, etc 19:26:54 Nevertheless I intend these Farbfeld Utilities program will including conversion to/from any format, whether common (such as PNG) or obscure (such as XZIP Picture Library format). 19:28:05 b_jonas: PAM fixes the channel configuration bit. 19:28:23 zzo38: besides the bit depth (which PNM can hvae multiple), I want to use the exact channel configuration (eg. possibly bgr, bgr0, bgra, rgb, argb, alpha only, yuv444) and interlacing (channels of a pixel together, channels for whole image one after another) that 19:28:29 As for the endianness... Bi-endian file formats can fuck off. 19:28:45 are the most convenient for the particular use. a program like ffmpeg or imagemagick can use whatever configuration I want, and handle the conversions itself. 19:28:54 why bother with the conversion myself when they can do it already? 19:29:06 Yes, OK, you can do that if you wish, too. 19:29:39 oh, and also padding at the end of lines. 19:30:44 also, ffmpeg and imagemagick (imagemagick in any way, as in, command line, high-level C api, C++ api) can do some simple filtering steps that I often want to do right before reading or writing the image, such as cropping or resampling to smaller before write, rotating or flipping before read. 19:31:16 (I could also provide a program in Farbfeld Utilities that will support raw non-indexed pictures; I already have a file for raw indexed pictures. Although there is also ff-swizzle. And in the case just of "bgr" or "rgb" simple 8-bits-per-channel, together, you could probably use ff-scanf to do this too (although I have not tried).) 19:31:48 It amuses me that, if you don't mind having a somewhat silly and large output, you can reasonably do uncompressed PNG output pretty easily. 19:31:55 I actually have a simple C++ wrapper that spawns an ffmpeg process to read or write an image or video, and allows a variety of these options, 19:32:00 (it's more complex than Farbfeld or PNM, naturally, but it's not that hard) 19:32:12 but only those options that I have needed so far, because ffmpeg has an infinity of useful options, so the simple wrapper won't ever cover it all. 19:32:26 Yes, I suppose you can do that if you like to do (although then, I think, you should need the checksum?) 19:32:37 zzo38: Yes, you do need the checksums. 19:32:42 (there's two) 19:32:52 It's CRC-32 and Adler32 both. 19:33:04 They're both pretty easy to write, though. 19:33:14 I will freely grant this is not the most useful thing in the world. 19:33:25 But it's pretty quick, and easier than using libpng. 19:34:51 Farbfeld Utilities "ffpng" program can do that though, with a command such as "ffpng b0 c2 e-1 f0" or such. 19:35:12 *nod* 19:35:14 pikhq: crc-32? what the heck? 19:35:42 ("b0" disables compression, "c2" specifies RGB, "e-1" forces it to use a single block, and "f0" disables filtering.) 19:36:03 b_jonas: It's a standard checksum, and PNG requires it for each chunk. 19:36:13 I didn't know png had that 19:36:40 Adler32 comes into it because the contents of the image chunk(s) are just zlib streams. 19:37:58 yes, I know that part 19:38:07 I just didn't know there was an extra checksum 19:38:14 do reader programs actually check that? 19:38:19 Yes. 19:38:43 Also, every *single* chunk in PNG is CRC32'd. 19:38:45 I mean, a browser can start displaying the image before having downloaded the whole thing, and usually most of the image is one chunk 19:38:58 one big chunk 19:38:58 (there's more chunks than just image data) 19:39:02 pikhq: sure 19:39:11 Yeah, but they barf if the checksum turns out to have been wrong, generally. 19:39:37 And there's reader programs that aren't browsers. 19:40:00 sure 19:40:46 mind you, I mostly just see truncated jpegs on the web, I don't remember having seen a truncated png 19:50:40 A few of my programs can work with multi-frame pictures, and generally expect the frames to be arranged in a vertical strip. (Although also a program is provided to convert this if needed.) For formats such as Famicom pattern tables, the reading is automatically like a vertical strip, and can write using a vertical strip as input too even if the height is unknown, because it is the order of the data already. 19:51:24 (Some other programs use a horizontal strip instead, although I think vertical strip format is more a more natural format.) 19:53:17 One feature of XPM that others usually don't have is customizable colours. Also, it can include a monochrome as well as a colour version in the same picture. 19:54:34 (As far as I know, other formats do not do this, except that the YZIP Picture Library format (not the XZIP format) allows palettes to include optional stipple patterns for use with monochrome display.) 19:55:51 zzo38: for videos, the important constraints in my program is that (a) the video read and write is streaming, so if I write a long video, then only data for a few dozen frames is held in memory at a time, 19:56:07 and (b) I don't spawn a program for each video frame, because that's slow. 19:56:22 b_jonas: Yes, that is correct, it make sense. 19:56:43 by the way, my code does two more conveniences, although both are because ffmpeg can already easily do that: 19:57:03 firstly, I can read or write multiple numbered image files with the same shape instead of a video, 19:57:09 (And the draft for the TAVERN picture format allows a picture to have any number of associated palettes, so you could have a different version of the picture (or just a different palette) for composite output, RGB output, monochrome, low resolution vs high resolution, etc.) 19:57:42 and I can display image or video in a window instead of writing it to a file (useful because sometimes I want one, sometimes the other in the same program, for debugging) 19:57:56 OK 19:58:45 the C++ wrapper is needed because the ffmpeg interface is a bit... strange, and there's a lot of stupid workarounds needed, so the wrapper does the ones I've encountered so far 19:59:09 OK 19:59:12 but I got the ffmpeg devs to fix a bug or two I encountered in this, which is nice 20:06:03 You can tell me of other formats that you or someone else might want in Farbfeld Utilities, and/or to possibly contribute the codes for such formats. Currently it does not have many, and some can read only, and some can write only. (Some subformats also are currently not implemented, such as, cannot read bmp with RLE, and cannot use JPEG with 12-bits or arithmetic coding. 20:09:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:09:50 `? farbfeld 20:09:51 farbfeld? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:10:03 do we have a wisdom about this? 20:10:36 Add one if you know what to write about it 20:13:00 I rather suspect that farbfeld is not vaporware. 20:13:26 [wiki] [[TwoFiftyFive]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53203 * HereToAnnoy * (+1584) Created page with "TwoFiftyFive is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:HereToAnnoy]] with only two instructions and limited memory. ==Syntax== ===Instructions=== * Move instruction (<..." 20:14:36 It isn't, it's just niche. 20:14:38 One thing I can think of, is if there is some way to make the JPEG decoder so that (by user option) it can try to recover some of the quality of the picture if it was encoded with low quality, to make it less "blocky" output. 20:14:41 [wiki] [[TwoFiftyFive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53204&oldid=53203 * HereToAnnoy * (+0) minor formatting edit 20:14:45 `slashlearn farbfeld//zzo38's Farbfeld utilities is a package of command-line programs (with rather strange command-line syntax) for manipulating images in a specific raw format called farbfeld. It's somewhat underdocumented. http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/home 20:14:48 Learned 'farbfeld': zzo38's Farbfeld utilities is a package of command-line programs (with rather strange command-line syntax) for manipulating images in a specific raw format called farbfeld. It's somewhat underdocumented. http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/home 20:15:25 [wiki] [[TwoFiftyFive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53205&oldid=53204 * HereToAnnoy * (+0) another minor formatting edit 20:15:59 Yes, those things is true, that is OK. 20:16:19 [wiki] [[Focus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53206&oldid=53200 * HereToAnnoy * (+0) minor formatting edit 20:17:42 zzo38: how do you use ffpng to write 8-bit per channel depth images instead of 16-bit channel deep? 20:17:53 [wiki] [[User:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53207&oldid=53196 * HereToAnnoy * (+67) added TwoFiftyFive to contributions list 20:18:52 b_jonas: It will automatically do that if it can be done losslessly. (You can also explicitly specify by the use of the "c" option.) 20:19:19 zzo38: also, nice, you've developped farbfeld.ui and its documentation a lot since I've last seen it 20:19:51 zzo38: sure, but I don't know how to reduce an image to 8 bit per channle depth easily first 20:20:02 ah, the c option 20:20:39 c sets the color space and then the bit depth. nice 20:20:50 To reduce the image first, use "ff-poster 8", if you need to do that. 20:21:00 that reminds me 20:21:27 since farbfeld format doesn't use premultiplied alpha, is there a program to turn all fully transparent pixels to black? 20:21:33 to transparent black I mean 20:21:53 so as to save space when writing in an image format that also doesn't use premultiplied alpha, such as png 20:22:08 No, although you are right, it can be a good idea. 20:22:35 this could be an option in ffpng too of course 20:23:10 I will just make it a separate program I think 20:24:02 zzo38: ok, but note that you may have to do this after reducing bit depth for a true color (non-indexed) image 20:24:14 so that's two extra steps for a 8-bit per channel deep png 20:24:36 which is why it would be useful in ffpng 20:24:53 if you make it a separate program, then offer a transparency value cutoff parameter too 20:25:10 OK, I will add a cutoff parameter (zero by default). 20:25:24 thanks 20:26:11 and if you don't add an option to ffpng, then at least write about the correct pipeline for 8-bit per channel rgb with alpha in the docs of ffpng 20:26:44 Yes, OK I will do that (the wiki is editable by everyone though, so you can also write about it if you want to do so) 20:30:34 OK, I added "ff-transopt" program which does that. 20:31:56 OK, and now I added that note to the documentation of ffpng, too. 20:37:13 nice 20:38:36 -!- tromp has joined. 20:49:11 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:51:59 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:11:58 <\oren\> lol I decreased the memory usage of a program by a factor of ten thousand 21:12:27 <\oren\> previously used 49 gigabytes, now uses 5.4 kilobytes 21:12:35 <\oren\> er, megabytes 21:12:54 <\oren\> stupid ps outputting 21:13:37 -!- tswett has joined. 21:13:41 Yo. 21:13:57 -!- augur has joined. 21:14:31 I just realized that it's possible to write the traditional call-with-current-continuation function in "fake Lua". 21:14:45 tswett: OK, how is that? 21:15:00 That is, it's almost valid Lua code, but it does something illegal. 21:15:06 Lemme see if I can write it out here. 21:16:26 function call_cc(callback, arg) local result; function curr_cont(r) result = r; goto finish end; result = callback(curr_cont, arg); ::finish:: return result end 21:16:56 I guess the "arg" bit is unnecessary, but kinda convenient. 21:17:58 It's not legal Lua because you can't jump from an inner function into a label defined in the outer function. 21:19:00 Yes, and actually I think once I have suggested to add "goto" into JavaScript and to allow it to work like that in order to make up such thing, by making a kind of "evasive exceptions". 21:24:16 Yeah, I guess Lua has two forms of "stack-subverting" control flow. 21:24:26 Exceptions and coroutines. 21:31:21 Do you know what is the syntax for HSV colour codes in XPM file? The document just says that it is not implemented. 21:32:57 No clue. 21:39:33 -!- brandonson has joined. 21:40:14 -!- brandonson has quit (Client Quit). 21:40:22 -!- brandonson has joined. 21:50:01 -!- tromp has joined. 21:54:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:29:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:29:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:33:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:34:14 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhin_shikhin_. 22:37:05 -!- shikhin_shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin__nihkihs. 22:40:25 -!- shikhin__nihkihs has changed nick to shikhin. 23:02:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:01 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 23:04:11 -!- boily has joined. 23:04:49 I'm reading https://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas and lol on "four loop" 23:10:48 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:18:22 -!- augur has joined. 23:21:26 -!- tromp has joined. 23:26:12 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:57 What is the name of the theoerm that it's possible to write comments in any sane programming language that's expressive enough? 23:31:12 -!- tromp has joined. 23:44:19 What if it's a language that only accepts non-alphabetic characters 23:49:21 the language, or the comment language? 23:51:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:53:28 @messages-fold 23:53:28 fizzie said 11h 27m 2s ago: It might've been because I had to restart HackEgo. Did the same for the bridge as well, maybe it works now. 23:53:53 is that the command that reduces your messages 23:58:26 sheesh it's been a long time since i looked at my stackoverflow tab, there's a favorite edit from jan '16 i hadn't seen 23:59:13 hellørjan, helloochaf. 23:59:52 Are there programming languages where a team of programmers have to enter the program quickly on a guitar hero controller? 2017-10-14: 00:00:23 reputation and responses get notices if i'm on PPCG, but not favorites. 00:00:50 oerjan: yes, for favourites, you have to check your favourites tab in the profile. those don't send messages. 00:01:14 wob_jonas: and it's separate for each stackexchange site 00:01:36 helloily. 00:02:13 oerjan: yeah. maybe you can write a third-party program to handle this. stackexchange has reasonably well documented apis for most things, except the chat. 00:15:49 although if you want to handle multiple SE sites, it gets slow even with a third-part app, because most of the apis access only one site 00:15:58 and the data dumps are per site too 00:17:38 And multiple sites does occur. I now have posts on 27 SE sites, not counting site metas and area 51. 00:17:48 Only one post on many of them, but still. 00:19:00 i'm just registered on five, anyhow. just checked and the only thing on the rest was a couple of rep notices 00:19:20 I'm registered to many more. Registration to additional sites is practically free. 00:19:27 But a registration itself doesn't mean much. 00:20:10 oerjan: on how many of those five sites do you actually have a question or answer or some other significant contribution? 00:24:13 four of them - the only site where i registered solely to upvote something is super user 00:24:30 because that site had solutions to several problems i've had with windows. 00:24:40 i have never asked a question anywhere. 00:24:57 I see 00:25:44 and i believe i'm on code review solely because of an answer migrated from stackoverflow. 00:25:53 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:26:29 oerjan: yeah, I have a question on Chemistry SE but I never asked a question there 00:26:45 migrations are fun 00:27:25 there are some other sites i could have registered on to upvote something, like the russian stackexchange. but i've been too lazy. 00:27:59 um... it's had unified logins for quite long, so registering on an additional site is trivial if you're 00:28:05 already registered on one 00:28:23 well sure. i've just not bothered to do it just to vote. 00:28:39 maybe i should upvote that one. 00:30:26 (it was a word in the lyrics to Moscow Nights that i couldn't find on wiktionary and the top google hit was a stackexchange question about it.) 00:32:14 oh looked it up, the site _is_ in russian so i had to use google translate to understand it. still worth it. 00:32:46 https://rus.stackexchange.com/questions/32668/%D0%A7%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%82%D1%8B-%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%8C-%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%83-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8F 00:33:26 eep but that makes registration rather awkward 00:36:13 `? eor 00:36:15 eor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:36:15 `? accumulator 00:36:16 accumulator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:36:16 `? ior 00:36:17 ior? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:36:48 `? xoer 00:36:49 xoer? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:36:49 `? xor 00:36:50 Xor is just addition of nimbers. 00:37:01 `? or 00:37:02 Or is an Intercal unary operator. 00:37:18 `? aor 00:37:19 aor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:37:27 `? oor 00:37:28 oor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:37:29 `? uor 00:37:30 uor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:37:37 `? nor 00:37:38 nor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:37:46 ``` echo wisdom/?or 00:37:47 wisdom/xor 00:39:06 `slashlearn eor//"eor" is Old English for "xor". 00:39:09 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:39:09 Learned 'eor': "eor" is Old English for "xor". 00:39:11 `slashlearn ior//"ior" is Old English for "or". 00:39:13 Learned 'ior': "ior" is Old English for "or". 00:41:47 the answer by behemothus is fascinating, even if google translate doesn't make it _entirely_ understandable. 00:42:01 (it involves dialect and soviet politics) 00:42:27 * oerjan finally upvoted it, anyway. 00:48:16 `? eeyore 00:48:17 eeyore? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:49:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SPLIT CHICKEN). 00:50:12 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:18:40 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:24:44 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:27:28 @metar KOAK 01:27:28 KOAK 132353Z 30009KT 4SM HZ SCT020 20/09 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP181 T02000089 10222 20161 56009 01:27:31 @metar KSFO 01:27:32 KSFO 132356Z 28018KT 7SM SCT047 19/04 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP183 T01890044 10228 20161 56006 01:34:51 -!- tswett has joined. 01:55:03 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:06:40 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:23:25 -!- APic has joined. 02:28:23 -!- imode has joined. 03:03:02 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: goodnight). 04:50:58 -!- Melvar` has joined. 04:51:35 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:52:28 -!- Melvar has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:52:34 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 05:55:07 -!- tromp has joined. 05:59:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:02:03 argh google search has broken the arrow keys again 06:03:11 Haven't they been broken a long time? 06:03:14 Or what do you mean? 06:04:00 well it's varied 06:04:19 i cannot even scroll down the page with the touchpad 06:04:39 only the scrollbar works 06:04:50 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:06:56 Ah, that broken. 06:08:09 well now google doesn't load at all hmph 06:10:12 it's possible that google is not the party to put the blame on hth 06:12:10 OKAY 06:12:24 * oerjan somehow found what he was searching for, anyway 06:30:06 (http://www.stixoi.info/stixoi.php?info=Lyrics&act=details&song_id=4597) 06:30:52 which is pretty good for only remembering that the norwegian translation mentioned sponges 06:55:55 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:07:02 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:54:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:03:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:06:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:31:46 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:58:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:11:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:41:07 -!- tromp has joined. 10:45:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:54:33 -!- tromp has joined. 11:34:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:01:43 -!- tromp has joined. 13:00:20 -!- boily has joined. 13:37:07 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:39:14 fungot is phasing \\ as the maple leaves tumble \\ neither here nor there 13:46:50 so fungot will return at the beginning of the controller' upkeep? 13:51:53 oranges and reds and \\ some greens flash against the chill \\ when will fizzie be? 13:52:50 int-ello. I'm too young to ever have experienced phasing live. all I know is that it was a bother. 13:55:37 I got it wrong anyway 13:56:16 (it already happens in the untap step) 13:57:56 -!- Guest95245 has changed nick to Slereah. 14:00:10 though now I'm wondering whether there was such a thing when I last played, hmm 14:03:19 -!- fungot has joined. 14:10:10 I guess so, it's just one of those details that hardly ever matters 14:15:05 Oh and there are 372 stickers, I think that approach would take longer. 14:15:11 wc 14:17:28 (this is about solving a gigaminx) 14:22:32 <3 14:35:35 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:37:19 * boily pats the fungot 14:37:20 boily: madam president, let me just take up a little time to consult these committees and subsequently to implement a research policy that truly serves development needs. close association of the municipality where i live, it regularly happens that whole crews are given the chance to find a subject which is not as strong as possible. 14:37:55 * ATMunn pokes the fungot 14:37:55 ATMunn: of course i hope sooner rather than later. i commend this report to make charges recoverable through the social security systems with the prospect of long-term success in the form of a free society to demonstrate. but clearly the weather and time of year and in the future. 14:40:25 -!- iconmaster has joined. 14:40:37 -!- iconmaster has quit (Client Quit). 14:44:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OFFICE CHICKEN). 16:21:13 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:23:39 ATMunn: \o 16:24:03 ohai o/ 16:33:39 wtf, why does firefox need a screenshots feature... 16:33:47 ...I really need a new browser. 17:06:55 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:54:07 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:04:47 -!- imode has joined. 18:16:10 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: Oh no, default quit message? D: (Either I'm lazy or something bad happened)). 18:16:54 -!- ATMunn has joined. 18:25:46 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 18:31:48 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:49:32 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 18:58:17 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:43 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:03 -!- ATMunn has joined. 19:26:12 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:36 -!- ATMunn has joined. 19:42:04 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:12:49 -!- augur has joined. 21:02:39 -!- LKoen has joined. 21:06:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Client Quit). 21:11:50 I played GURPS game. The GM had previously said that "Absolute Timing" is a worthless trait to have, but I told him he is wrong and this time, I showed that it is useful. I opened a door that led outside, and since I have Absolute Timing, I know what time it is, and can tell that the time by the sun is the same time that I believe it is, so that I can know it isn't a fake! 21:13:44 . o O ( or a very good fake ) 21:14:15 It would also only be useful if you're worried about reality being faked 21:14:26 Yes, it could be that too. I did think of that, but I think it probably isn't a fake (but, of course, we have to be vigilance just in case, of anything!) 21:14:28 which is probably not too common 21:14:59 also how do you do absolute timing 21:15:04 How does it work with time zones 21:15:53 It does have other uses too, such as if you are resting, or have a spell or something else with a known duration, and want to know exactly when it is expiring or some such. 21:16:07 what if you had a watch though 21:16:37 oh yes, let's play twin paradox with two people having absolute timing.... 21:16:57 also what happens if you go back in time 21:17:03 What time are you aware of 21:17:52 It works fine with time zones, according to the rules. It works fine if you sleep. However, if you are knocked unconscious, it might take some time to recover knowing what time it is, but once you are no longer unconscious you should at least know how much time has elapsed since you have recovered from unconsciousness. For time travel, there is another version of that trait, called "Chronolocation". 21:18:09 Chronolocation does work even in case of time travel, twin paradox, and anything else! 21:18:20 I do recall that there's a whole GURPS book about time travel 21:18:32 And of course there's GURPS Bunnies and Burrows 21:18:35 The best one 21:20:27 Time dilation is possible in GURPS too (if you do a lot of space travel, perhaps). Even the core book has "Jumper (Time)" for time travel. 21:21:15 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:24:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:25:42 -!- augur has joined. 21:26:04 Jumper (Time) is presumably for true time travel, although there is no modifier listed for if you cannot go back further than when it is "anchored" to. 21:27:24 I am much into general relativity and there's a shitload of papers on quantum computing with closed timelike curves lately 21:27:33 Has anyone made an esoland for that yet 21:27:33 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:28:45 Slereah: I don't know, although I think there is a few esolangs that involve some time travel. 21:29:03 But not necessarily based on such paper. If you know more about it, invent a better one! 21:30:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:30:48 yeah mb 21:30:59 might be interesting 21:32:20 Though since you have to check the values of states ahead in time, I'm guessing that it may be slow/impossible 21:32:43 Like you'd have to unroll the entire program in advance before running it 21:33:12 Especially bad since they're quantum states, so you can't assume discrete values 21:33:38 -!- augur has joined. 21:37:04 although classical computing with closed timelike curves might be doable 21:38:53 but then there's the whole Cauchy problem issue, which is what the quantum version is nice for 21:38:53 hm 21:44:05 I guess the simplest way to do this would be to add an instruction to load and store values from registers at different times of the program's life 22:00:13 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: i might have znc now :D). 22:01:29 -!- ATMunn has joined. 22:03:57 -!- ATMunn has changed nick to ATMunn[away]. 22:04:02 -!- ATMunn[away] has changed nick to ATMunn. 22:17:12 -!- Remavas has joined. 22:26:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:01:46 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 23:02:27 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:02:33 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 23:19:15 -!- augur has joined. 23:31:22 -!- boily has joined. 23:38:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:41:57 -!- imode has joined. 23:48:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2017-10-15: 00:27:18 `5 w 00:27:25 1/2:lemon//A lemon is a melon whose spelling is bad. \ lkoen//LKoen vivait en haut de la Tour Eiffel, mais il s'est préfixé d'un L et s'est envolé. \ shapr//shapr is anonymouse. \ steprans//A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable. \ elendil//Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end 00:27:26 `n 00:27:26 2/2:by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron. 00:30:42 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:46:26 -!- Remavas has changed nick to Remavas-might-cr. 00:46:36 -!- Remavas-might-cr has changed nick to Rem-crashable. 00:46:49 -!- augur has joined. 00:48:55 -!- Rem-crashable has changed nick to Remavas. 00:56:49 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:57:48 -!- jaboja has joined. 01:02:48 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 01:03:04 -!- jaboja has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:07:02 -!- jaboja64 has changed nick to jaboja. 01:42:49 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:49:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HOLSTER CHICKEN). 01:57:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:20 -!- augur has joined. 02:02:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:02:58 -!- augur has joined. 02:19:14 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:35:41 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:38:14 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:50:32 Now I made a XPM decoder too. It supports all three formats, including monochrome and grey mode, and symbolic colour overrides. 02:51:55 (Unlike Netpbm, which supports only format 1 and 3, and ImageMagick, which supports only format 3, and neither of them support monochrome, grey and symbolic.) 02:58:34 Why does hardly any XPM reading program do it properly? 03:01:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:16:41 I'm honestly not sure. 03:16:55 It's not the best format ever, but it's not like it's hard to find out about this. 03:22:13 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:25:37 I know it is not the best format ever (I think no format is really the "best format ever"; different formats have different advantages and disadvantages for different uses) 03:26:23 You can tell me if you think my implementation is done properly. 03:36:24 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:36:47 In these encoders/decoders, and also filters, some things are missing, but also some things which is the things that the other program does not do, as far as I know. 03:41:04 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 03:41:27 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:00:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:10:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:18:44 -!- augur has joined. 04:20:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:21:32 clog: why you no web 04:22:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:24:17 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 04:24:23 -!- augur has joined. 04:29:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:32:40 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:38:32 -!- xkapastel has joined. 05:37:39 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:37:53 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:45:13 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:45:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:45:46 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest20151. 06:04:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:15:02 -!- augur has joined. 06:34:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:42:21 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 06:43:13 -!- augur has joined. 06:53:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:15:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:19:08 -!- augur has joined. 07:19:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:22:59 -!- augur has joined. 07:34:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:53 -!- augur has joined. 08:11:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:24:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:36:08 * Taneb hello 08:36:26 Good Afternooneb 08:36:36 @time shachaf 08:36:37 Local time for shachaf is Sun Oct 15 00:36:37 2017 08:36:52 I don't think it's afternoon for either of us 08:36:57 I guess it's mornineb. 08:42:12 It'd certainly seem so 09:18:48 it's extremely late afternoon for me 09:18:59 03:18 10:08:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:16:10 -!- augur has joined. 10:28:04 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:30:16 -!- Remavas has joined. 10:42:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:17:27 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:29:10 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 11:30:58 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:31:05 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 11:38:19 -!- augur has joined. 11:43:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:46:54 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 12:57:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:03:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:34:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:38:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:00:14 -!- boily has joined. 14:00:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:00:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 14:13:16 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:41:42 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 15:58:55 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 15:59:45 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:08:38 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 16:10:27 -!- Guest20151 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:14:38 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:54:49 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:02:30 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:03:31 -!- imode has joined. 17:14:15 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:23:31 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 17:26:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FOUNDATION CHICKEN). 17:29:19 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:35:02 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 17:37:12 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Client Quit). 18:36:34 I think I found something less automated than the manual comics rss feed you've got going on here 18:38:17 there is a "The Official Random Funny Comic Strip Thread" on alternatehistory.com where people post from their favorite comics when they're updated 18:57:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:02:09 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:03:55 -!- Remavas has joined. 19:08:47 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:12:01 -!- augur has joined. 19:16:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:19:48 -!- boily has joined. 19:23:28 Yesterday the GM of this GURPS game told me that one meaning of the word "vampire" is simply blood eating, although I did not believe him, and earlier today I looked it up in dictionary, and in fact, he is wrong. Although it does list a vampire bat as one possible meaning, as well as a stage trapdoor to effect disappearances, which I did not know before I looked at it today. 19:23:57 (However, this dictionary is also a bit old) 19:24:52 maybe they were thinking of the adjective "vampiric" 19:25:15 Yes, maybe. 19:28:05 At least we know that they're not a semantic lexalist http://specgram.com/CLIII.1/07.snodgrass.lexicalist.html 19:29:10 OK I will read it 19:29:34 (it is 100% a joke) 19:29:49 OK, but I will read it anyways 19:37:07 The reason I called it anti-lexicalism is because they seem to have expected the meaning of -ic adjectives to be formed by directly applying the meaning of the noun, and so the meaning of the adjective would tell you that the noun also had that meaning 19:38:55 O, OK, now I know 19:39:31 I thought I might be being to opaque 19:39:34 too 19:45:02 Within the context of roleplaying, vampire itself may be an adjective as in D&D's Vampire Rose 19:45:53 It is related to the GURPS game because he try to say if my character and his friend is a "vampire", but that is only because he is using the words to mean something else. (Didn't they say in some of Carroll's story, they use a word to mean how they intended it to mean?) (O, and I did not know that "Vampire Rose" either, but I suppose yes you can have that.) 19:47:00 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:48:08 I don't know how is D&D's Vampire Rose, but I don't think that is what is in use here, this is GURPS game instead. 19:48:41 do yours characters drink blood? 19:49:02 Yes. 19:49:40 what kind of thinks are they? 19:49:46 things 19:50:04 A new kind, I suppose. 19:50:42 I mean are they humanoid? humans? sentient shades of blue? 19:51:16 is blood drinking obligatory or optional? 19:52:22 It is humanoid, and also scales, feathers, sharp long beak, some eyes, antennas. And, it is obligatory if you do not want to starve to death. 19:52:35 (But other than that, nobody forces you to.) 19:53:05 (And four fingers instead of five, more than two eye but most are smaller) 19:53:12 (O, and wings, for flying) 19:53:44 what are the consequences if your character are "vampires"? 19:54:24 Can you clarify your question? 19:55:10 what will the gm change about the game our your characters if they call them vampires? 19:55:50 Probably nothing. Calling them vampires doesn't make them so, it is just a kind of words you use. 19:56:09 (He would just be using different words, which I suppose can cause some confusion sometimes.) 19:56:35 ah, so the issue is that the share non of the other prototypical proprties of a vampire 19:57:39 Other than Night Vision 5 (which dwarves also share), and SM 0 (which humans and all other human-sized characters share), yes. 19:58:42 what is their species name? 19:59:18 I don't know 19:59:55 (another non-vampire vampire) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_ground_finch 20:00:52 Yes, of course such things can exist and can include "vampire" together with other words, it is in use. 20:00:56 It is OK 20:04:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:05:22 s/I don't know/I don't remember/ 20:11:21 <\oren\> I am pursued by betentacled Martians loyal to the Spanish! 20:11:40 How is that? 20:12:58 <\oren\> I got a new game called "Jamestown" on steam. It's got an awesome setting 20:20:33 I prefer this GURPS game rather than Dungeons&Dragons game, the GURPS is more scientific, and GURPS has no class (instead, you can just select whatever combinations of the skills you want to do) 20:29:57 My character is prefer to fight by shield and his friend is prefer to fight by whip and crossbow. And, the human character, Bob, is prefer to fight by sword. 20:33:53 -!- augur has joined. 20:36:55 Why is there a bear trap in Rogue? I did not see any bear 20:36:58 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:38:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:38:51 that is because the traps worked 20:39:12 O, yes, I suppose that is the case. And then they never bothered to remove the trap afterward 20:39:20 (Just in case there are more bears) 20:39:32 it is a commentary on the folly of overhunting and habitat destruction 20:39:59 Yes, I suppose that, too 20:43:01 Do you like this GURPS better that it has no class? 20:44:07 Yes, it is excellent that they have achieved a classless society 20:46:48 Have you play that or Dungeons&Dragons game, or what role playing game you have played? 20:49:00 Do you know what is the wizard password in Rogue? 20:53:17 sorry I was in the bathtub 20:57:43 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:58:41 -!- Guest20151 has joined. 20:59:10 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:01:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:05:46 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:17:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:21:48 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 21:23:19 -!- Guest20151 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:27:59 `5 w 21:28:04 1/2:mate//Mate is a southern hemisphere shamanist beverage that opens your inner self to the Sacred World. Its enlightened users become friendly, wishing “G'day, mate!” to one another. \ lie algebra//A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size. \ la 21:28:05 `n 21:28:05 2/2:ughed//They laughed when I said I wanted to be a comedian. They're not laughing now! \ hexchat//Hexchat is a variant of Smalltalk invented in Hexham. \ xyzzy//Nothing happens. 21:36:38 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:03:52 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:04:19 -!- Guest20151 has joined. 22:35:45 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 22:37:07 -!- Guest20151 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:03:52 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:20:31 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:30:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:39:15 @metar CYUL 23:39:16 CYUL 152233Z 23018KT 3SM RA FEW017 BKN035 OVC050 21/18 A2941 RMK SF1SC7SC1 SF TR WND ESTD PRESRR SLP961 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 23:48:09 -!- augur has joined. 23:51:35 I jusssst had a great idea: a concatanative language with (.)(.) (.Y.) (@)(@) and so on as operators 23:52:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:53:17 perversoteric programming. 23:53:51 `` grep -FIi gonad wisdom/* 23:53:59 grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/gonad:gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture. 23:56:58 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: lol rip). 23:57:53 -!- ATMunn has joined. 23:58:51 -!- ATMunn_ has joined. 2017-10-16: 00:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 00:00:19 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:01:01 -!- ATMunn has quit (Client Quit). 00:01:15 -!- ATMunn_ has changed nick to ATMunn. 00:01:23 -!- ATMunn has quit (Client Quit). 00:01:39 -!- ATMunn has joined. 00:09:02 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: lol rip). 00:09:12 -!- ATMunn has joined. 00:11:38 -!- ATMunn has quit (Client Quit). 00:11:48 -!- ATMunn has joined. 00:27:19 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: lol rip). 00:27:29 -!- ATMunn has joined. 00:28:53 maybe they could be outfix operators 00:31:37 helloily 00:39:45 -!- imode has joined. 00:45:38 QUINTHELLOPIA! 00:45:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ISOCELES CHICKEN). 00:48:12 So today I learned that all esoteric languages are actually dialects of Tamil 00:48:57 woops I mean dialects of தமிழ் 01:04:53 dialects of box box box box? 01:05:44 `unidecode த 01:05:45 ​[U+0BA4 TAMIL LETTER TA] 01:06:07 `unidecode மி 01:06:07 ​[U+0BAE TAMIL LETTER MA] [U+0BBF TAMIL VOWEL SIGN I] 01:06:34 `unidecode ழ் 01:06:35 ​[U+0BB4 TAMIL LETTER LLLA] [U+0BCD TAMIL SIGN VIRAMA] 01:18:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:27:39 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:40:32 -!- jaboja has joined. 01:55:08 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:25:31 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:31:33 -!- Melvar` has joined. 03:32:52 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:36:14 If you have a indexed colour picture where each pixel is stored as the index of that colour XOR the index of the colour of the pixel above, and then with RLE, is there a better way to figure out the optimal order of the palette than just by trying each one (which is going to be a lot of possibilities)? 03:48:28 -!- augur has joined. 03:51:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:00:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:03:27 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:18:14 <\oren\> http://store.steampowered.com/app/643270 good game 04:24:35 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:46:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:06:43 [wiki] [[Tables]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53208 * HereToAnnoy * (+1012) created idea 05:09:25 [wiki] [[User:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53209&oldid=53207 * HereToAnnoy * (+69) tables 05:19:47 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:28:47 -!- LKoen has joined. 05:28:48 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:30:22 -!- augur has joined. 05:33:01 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:35:35 -!- Lymia has joined. 05:49:36 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:52:42 -!- tswett has joined. 05:54:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:59:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:51 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 06:03:25 -!- idris-bot has joined. 06:04:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:23:46 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:35:04 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:00:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:02:22 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:24:27 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:24:53 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:25:34 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:26:41 -!- dingbat has joined. 07:26:42 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 07:26:57 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:26:59 -!- lynn has joined. 07:27:13 -!- HackEgo has joined. 07:27:27 -!- Cthulhux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:29:22 -!- Cthulhux has joined. 07:59:19 -!- Remavas has joined. 08:12:49 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 08:27:54 -!- LKoen has joined. 08:37:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:26:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 11:12:06 -!- tromp has joined. 11:34:48 -!- boily has joined. 11:47:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:26:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MIGRAINE CHICKEN). 12:46:59 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:09:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:36:52 whoops, just looked at the sun by mistake, I'm not used to the sky being like this 13:38:43 luckily it's very dim in this weather 13:43:55 @metar EGLL 13:43:55 EGLL 161220Z AUTO 20016G28KT 9999 NCD 21/15 Q1014 13:44:03 So warm. 13:44:42 @metar KSFO 13:44:42 KSFO 161156Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 14/06 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP195 T01390061 10189 20133 58002 13:44:51 tables, turned 13:45:03 hi all 13:46:34 @metar EGBB 13:46:34 EGBB 161220Z 18012G22KT 9999 SCT024 19/15 Q1010 13:46:54 they're predicting 40mph winds here in Birmingham for a few hours as the edge of the extratropical storm passes 13:47:11 I don't think London's going to see much of that. 13:47:33 @metar KOAK 13:47:34 KOAK 161153Z 00000KT 10SM FEW012 11/07 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP196 T01060067 10178 20089 56004 13:47:38 fizzie: right, you're further south 13:48:06 whereas further west and north they'll get much more of the brunt of the storm 13:48:07 fizzie: The local weather issue here was air quality, not temperature. 13:48:24 Well, that and the fires, a little further north. 13:48:43 But even here the air quality index was worse than Beijing. 13:49:28 apparently the reason the sun's so dim at the moment is that the hurricane picked up a subset of the sahara desert (the subset in question is small compared to the sahara desert but large in an absolute sense) 13:50:17 Is it a measurable subset? 13:50:53 probably yes in the mathematical sense and no in the practical sense 13:57:25 Is it a null subset? 13:57:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:58:11 b_jonas: no 13:58:20 otherwise it wouldn't have much of an impact on the sun's color 13:58:21 I don't think people would describe a null subset as "large in an absolute sense" 13:58:46 that said, the sky here in Birmingham is weird at the moment; blue and normal in one direction, bizarrely yellow in another 13:59:12 it's less disconcerting than when it was solid yellow, because at least there's some normality somewhere, but it's still disturbing 13:59:15 So did people come up with any esoteric financial instruments yet? 13:59:20 `grWp exo 13:59:27 -!- Remavas has joined. 13:59:28 No output. 13:59:40 @wn exoteric 13:59:42 *** "exoteric" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 13:59:42 exoteric 13:59:42 adj 1: suitable for the general public; "writings of an exoteric 13:59:42 nature" [ant: {esoteric}] 13:59:44 @wn esotic 13:59:45 No match for "esotic". 14:00:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:00:32 That would be a good word. 14:01:01 shachaf: many existing financial instruments are weird enough that it's hard to know how an esoinstrument would be different 14:01:27 Well, usually they exist to accomplish some purpose. 14:01:39 Though I suppose sometimes the purpose is obfuscation. 14:01:53 What sort of weird instruments do you have in mind? 14:09:01 I'm not an expert on them, I've just seen other people discuss them (which means that I can hardly remember any details like names) 14:12:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:43 hmm, for testing this program I'm writing at work it'd be useful to have a collision in bits 32-64 of an SHA-256 hash; is that a small enough range to practically brute force, and if so, what algorithm should I use? 14:19:48 er, 32-63 14:22:36 A 32-bit collision? Are there any other constraints? 14:24:23 constraints on the forms of the string I'm colliding 14:24:31 ideally, known prefix + known suffix and alphabetical characters in between 14:24:38 Seems like brute force would be easy enough? 14:24:41 but I assume that if I'm bruteforcing this the form of the strings doesn't really matter 14:24:52 yeah, sounds like brute force should work 14:25:21 You could do a clever thing but I doubt it's worth the trouble. 14:25:21 and the form of strings shouldn't matter, unless it's such that they're hard to generate or there are too few of them, because those bits of SHA-256 are random 14:25:32 What prefix and suffix do you want? 14:25:39 shachaf: you can't do a clever thing, because SHA-256 is a good digest 14:25:48 I guess I use a hash table to store an index from hashes to strings, then keep hashing strings until I find a collision 14:25:59 ais523: that, yes 14:26:00 that should be O(2**16) by the birthday paradox, right? 14:26:03 yes 14:26:14 b_jonas: I meant the birthday thing. 14:26:27 (except that big-O notation doesn't work like that) 14:26:45 a moment, I'll try a one-liner with perl and Digest 14:26:51 Not all that clever. I guess 32 bits is enough that it's worth it. 14:27:15 shachaf: I'm not 100% sure on the form of the prefix and suffix offhand 14:30:08 once I have an algorithm, though, I can work it out 14:30:42 hmm, if it's fast enough (and 64K seems fast enough), I could put it in the testsuite so that it finds a new collision in case changes to the details of hashing cause the old one to stop working 14:32:25 `perl -e use Digest::SHA q(sha256); for $x (q(a)..q(zzzzz)) { $s=qq(GET /$x HTTP/1.1); $d=substr(sha256($s),4,4); if (exists$d{$d}) { printf qq(collision: %s (%s) (%s)\n), unpack(q(H*),$d), $s, $d{$s}; exit 0; } $d{$d}=$s; } die qq(none found); 14:32:27 collision: 14243f9b (GET /brqn HTTP/1.1) () 14:32:31 hmm no 14:32:42 `perl -e use Digest::SHA q(sha256); for $x (q(a)..q(zzzzz)) { $s=qq(GET /$x HTTP/1.1); $d=substr(sha256($s),4,4); if (exists$d{$d}) { printf qq(collision: %s (%s) (%s)\n), unpack(q(H*),$d), $s, $d{$d}; exit 0; } $d{$d}=$s; } die qq(none found); 14:32:43 collision: 14243f9b (GET /brqn HTTP/1.1) (GET /adwd HTTP/1.1) 14:32:46 like that 14:32:50 ais523: ^ 14:33:39 does `perl not handle single quotes? or are you just being overcautious with your character set? 14:33:47 that certainly seems to run fast enough, at least 14:34:12 at this rate it might be worth going for a collision in bits 0-64, which is /also/ a special case but much less likely to happen nonmaliciously 14:34:14 ais523: I'm using q() to enter one-liners on command-line in windows. single quotes would work too, but I don't like that because that doesn't work on posix shell. 14:34:39 Windows uses double quotes to escape, I think 14:34:45 ah right, so the single quotes go through literally 14:35:25 64-bit collision is still possible to brute force without GPU or parallelism or anything fancy like that, but too slow for HackEgo, I think. 14:35:32 It would need 2**32 tries. 14:35:38 right 14:35:51 that's a scale that's very sensitive to the complexity of the operations you're performing 14:35:56 yep 14:36:13 `perl -e use Digest::SHA q(sha256); for $x (q(a)..q(zzzzzz)) { $s=qq(GET /$x HTTP/1.1); $d=substr(sha256($s),2,6); if (exists$d{$d}) { printf qq(collision: %s (%s) (%s)\n), unpack(q(H*),$d), $s, $d{$d}; exit 0; } $d{$d}=$s; } die qq(none found); 14:36:30 48 bits of collision might already be too much for HackEgo 14:36:32 It would need slightly more than that, right? 14:36:45 I remember that 1.2 * sqrt(n) was a better approximation. 14:36:47 shachaf: sure, that's just order of magnitude 14:36:52 and it's random anyway 14:37:01 Er, right. 14:37:07 1.2 * sqrt(n) was only for a 50% chance 14:38:30 let's see: with n values tested, you have n(n+1)/2 possible collisions; and if you repeatedly roll independent 1/x chances, the number of tries you need for a 50% chance of success IIRC approximates as n*ln(2) 14:38:37 `perl -E say ln(2) 14:38:38 Undefined subroutine &main::ln called at -e line 1. 14:38:40 `perl -E say log(2) 14:38:41 0.693147180559945 14:38:47 right, that looks like the right number 14:38:58 we can approximate n(n+1) as n² pretty easily 14:39:16 so n²×2÷ln(2) 14:39:20 `perl -E say log(2)*2 14:39:21 1.38629436111989 14:39:32 so on this approximation it's more like 1.4 14:40:55 I was at a lecture where someone derived it once but I don't remember the details now. 14:40:59 I should go to sleep, it's almost 7. 14:41:30 shachaf: US west coast? 14:41:51 it's not hard to derive it 14:41:52 reently there's been enough news coming from the US (and I know enough Americans online) that I added a couple of commonly used US timezones to the clock on this laptop 14:42:08 right now it's UTC, London, Washington DC, and Los Angeles 14:43:51 Yes. 14:44:45 b_jonas: If you're doing these attacks on a larger scale you can also be clever and use less memory. 14:44:47 I just subtract 6 hours for east coast or 9 hours for west coast. It's not always accurate because of DST stuff, but good enough approximation when I don't want to look up the exact timezones for a location on timeanddate.com 14:44:53 subtract form the local time that is 14:45:16 shachaf: and more parallelism too 14:45:33 which isn't obvious because you still need a hash table or something 14:45:33 `ctcp b_jonas time 14:45:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ctcp: not found 14:45:37 err 14:45:50 I'm in the Paris time zone 14:46:14 right, I'd figured that out mathematically when ctcp wasn't helping 14:46:33 we argued on this channel what that timezone is best called, when I said I call it Europe/Paris because it's the biggest city in this timezone, and other people argued it might not be so 14:46:37 I wasn't sure if Hungary was far enough east to be in +2 in winter and +3 in summer (rather than +1 in winter and +2 in summer, like Paris) 14:46:57 No, it switches to that at Romania 14:48:36 and Greece and Bulgaria 14:49:00 oh, and Finland too 14:49:03 I always forget that 14:49:26 those are about the only places that use that timezone 14:49:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:50:45 Ok, actually the three Baltic states are using it too, and possibly Ukraine 14:51:56 That's actually a lot of places I guess. 14:54:28 Anyway, I really recommend timeanddate.com for this stuff, when you want more than just guesstimates in your head. It's a well-made site, and the nice part is that the maintainer reacts to my emails. 14:56:11 oh, hmm, looks like the prefix and suffix I need is actually just the null string 14:56:14 well, that makes things a lot simpler 14:57:14 wait, no, there's a salt 14:57:18 `perl -e use Digest::SHA q(sha256); for $x (q(a)..q(zzzzz)) { $s=$x; $d=substr(sha256($s),4,4); if (exists$d{$d}) { printf qq(collision: %s (%s) (%s)\n), unpack(q(H*),$d), $s, $d{$d}; exit 0; } $d{$d}=$s; } die qq(none found); 14:57:19 collision: 1a7d5bb0 (bloh) (hlx) 14:57:47 or should be, I'm not sure this code is actually using it 14:58:32 good thing I looked at that bit of the code! 15:14:25 b_jonas: 40-bit collision: cthex, bdllm 15:14:41 going significantly beyond this seems unviable in Perl, it uses too much memory 15:14:50 I might try switching to Rust 15:14:59 and/or borrowing a more powerful computer from the university 15:22:10 "Usually, SHA-256 operates on integers with 32 bits (u32). This implementation uses one double (f64) for each bit of each integer, thereby allowing to use 8 fuzzy input bits for each input byte." ← looks like crates.io has some fairly esoteric libraries… 15:22:50 -!- imode has joined. 15:24:18 * ais523 has an idea, and does a web search for "hqwj ever" 15:25:40 there is one relevant result but it doesn't contain a generalisation to 64 bits 15:25:53 * "hgwj ever" 15:26:05 I typed it correctly first time in the search box 15:26:25 it is fairly problematic for this that "ever" is a real word :-( 15:26:41 Or a better algorithm? 15:27:07 anyway, thinking about this, a > 2**32 attempt birthday collision is likely to use more memory than this computer has unless the algorithm is very optimized wrt memory use 15:28:02 I wonder if using a database for this would make sense? 15:29:39 But it seems people have algorithms that don't require you to store every input and hash. 15:29:55 right 15:30:16 an obvious improvement in terms of memory usage is to just store the hash, then once you have the second input, go back to the start and brute force a preimage 15:30:22 you found it once already so you can find it again 15:30:34 Now that I know why "Pollard's rho algorithm" is called that I think the name is pretty silly. 15:33:07 The rainbow table trick should also be applicable (iterate the hash, but only remember those values whose lower k bits are 0, for some chosen k) 15:34:21 not in this case, unless we convert the input to be alphabetical between the iterations 15:34:38 which seems like it might be fairly slow? it's a clever trick, though 15:34:55 Convert the input to be alphabeticaal? 15:35:00 come to think of it, you could actually do this in constant memory 15:35:08 via the tortoise-and-hare algorithm for finding a cycle in a linked list 15:35:52 the idea is that you repeatedly do the following: truncated-hash the input, convert the truncated hash into a new input of the required form 15:36:09 that gives you a chain of truncated hashes which has to repeat eventually (because there are only finitely many possibilities for the truncated hash) 15:36:31 ais523: you can even swap the order of the two operations for smaller (probably) intermediate results 15:36:32 That's where the name "rho" comes from. Because a linked list with a cycle in it looks like ρ 15:36:37 then you use a cycle detection algorithm (possible in O(1) memory) to find the cycle, and at that point, working "backwards" from the point of the cycle gives you a collision 15:36:55 shachaf: that's ridiculous :-P 15:37:04 I agree. 15:37:52 it's very visual 15:40:50 That's hard to parallelize, though. 15:41:06 But apparently people have more tricks for that. 15:41:12 no, it's trivial, just start from n random values 15:41:17 wait, I'm not sure this works; you can detect the cycle in O(1) memory but you don't learn the point at which the cycle joins the main sequence 15:42:38 which is what you'd need to nkow 15:42:39 *know 15:44:29 I guess you need extra values; once you find a collision do another full loop of the cycle to work out how large it is, and track what distance you've gone to work out where you are on the cycle, letting you work out the point it converges 15:44:36 then just start from the start and stop at the appropriate point 15:47:28 ais523: you can do it if you remember the starting value; the starting value, the tortoise, and the hare will be evenly spaced when the cycle is detected, so just iterate from the starting value and the tortoise synchronously until they become equal. Though perhaps there are cheaper ways of doing it. 15:48:07 I'm not thinking very well right now. I should go to sleep. 15:48:13 oh yes, I think that's what my approach would simplify to if I actually did the maths? 15:48:15 shachaf: do it 15:48:18 But here's a paper discussing it: http://people.scs.carleton.ca/~paulv/papers/JoC97.pdf 15:49:19 shachaf: my guess is that the speedup from starting with n random points is almost perfect (as an estimate, (n+1)/2 with n threads) 15:49:57 (And by speedup I mean expected speedup, since everything here is probabilistic.) 15:50:58 Yes, it's a different version that I was thinking of, which uses that rainbow trick. 15:51:37 sha256(015e2c85)=45faea71c83c8f73bbee1d07c4b2c3428b0c1b537aa964dd5492cb936d268184 15:51:39 But it's not that tricky there either. 15:51:44 sha256(da90efdd)=45faea71f8e5a5698d74dacf7a7cfeaf7e1d771d14f51cc064a2778b836e0051 15:51:54 looks like this algo works for the small (32-bit) test case 15:52:09 `` perl -MDigest::SHA=sha256 -E 'sub i{unpack"H*",substr sha256(shift),0,4}$t=$h="a";do{$h=i(i($h));$t=i($t)}while($h ne $t);$h="a";say $t;do{$lh=$h;$lt=$t;$h=i($h);$t=i($t)}while($h ne $t);say $lh;say $lt;say $h;say $t' 15:52:12 6a71fd18 \ da90efdd \ 015e2c85 \ 45faea71 \ 45faea71 15:52:23 but I seem to be wrong, since the paper says that the speedup is only O(sqrt(n)) 15:53:22 Were you expecting better than O(sqrt(n))? 15:53:40 Oh, you mean for parallelizing. 15:54:01 I guess my analogy is flawed 15:56:39 huh, I just found a collision on a 48-bit prefix, and it only took marginally over twice as long as on a 40-bit prefix 15:56:43 is that just an utter fluke? 15:57:14 0005a3be7429 against b0390e13d757, for those people who are interested 15:57:54 Are you measuring time or number of hashes? 15:57:58 realtime 15:58:04 but I wouldn't expect startup cost to be significant 15:58:11 ~15 seconds compared to ~30 seconds 15:58:49 luck? 15:59:09 I assume so, it's about a 1% chance I think 15:59:22 those happen occasionally but it's still surprising when they do 16:00:32 Why only 1%? 16:01:03 the times should differ by a factor of 256 16:01:07 they actually differed by a factor of 2 16:01:14 so the result is a factor of 100 away from what's expected 16:02:17 Not a factor of 16? 16:02:34 My thinking must be jumbled right now. 16:02:40 oh right, of course 16:02:43 it's me who's confused 16:02:46 I guess I'll go to sleep. It's already light out. :-( 16:02:47 Ah. 16:03:02 So more like a 12% chance. Less surprising. 16:03:09 But I should still sleep. 16:06:03 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:06:47 This distinguished point trick is pretty good. 16:07:10 go to bed! 16:19:13 that is the rainbow table trick 16:19:44 Yes. 16:22:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 16:23:51 The bun-alert syntax is back! 16:24:30 `olist 1102 16:24:31 olist 1102: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 16:24:33 `perl -e use Digest::SHA q(sha256); for $x (q(a)..q(zzzzz)) { $s=$x; $d=substr(sha256($s),0,4); if (exists$d{$d}) { printf qq(collision: %s (%s) (%s)\n), unpack(q(H*),$d), $s, $d{$d}; exit 0; } $d{$d}=$s; } die qq(none found); 16:24:35 collision: 63212655 (hgwj) (ever) 16:24:38 ah 16:25:01 `perl -e use Digest::SHA q(sha256); for $x (q(a)..q(zzzz), q(A)..q(ZZZZ)) { $s=$x; $d=substr(sha256($s),0,4); if (exists$d{$d}) { printf qq(collision: %s (%s) (%s)\n), unpack(q(H*),$d), $s, $d{$d}; } $d{$d}=$s; } die qq(all done); 16:25:31 all done at -e line 1. \ collision: 63212655 (hgwj) (ever) \ collision: 14202469 (ioaw) (ehks) \ collision: 5e6655a3 (isvc) (gfub) \ collision: 62bd0444 (jcgu) (ifoz) \ collision: dbdda724 (jyen) (ifph) \ collision: 3fbea896 (keer) (bmeq) \ collision: 2932fabe (mcdt) (akcg) \ collision: ee6816e2 (mlgl) (dmyo) \ collision: 82952ecc (nmbm) (apqi) \ c 16:25:58 " an obvious improvement in terms of memory usage is to just store the hash, then 16:26:48 ais523: how exactly does an eventual repetition give you a collision? 16:27:05 ah 16:28:19 but the problem with an iterative algorithm like that is that it's not parallelizable. whereas with a hash table, you can probably parallelize it to 32 threads without too much of a loss. 16:28:39 and you get a quadratic gain from using 32 threads and a shared hash table. 16:29:49 so that would be like 256 times faster than one thread 16:29:52 no wait 16:29:55 1024 times faster 16:30:00 but 16 threads might be more realistic 16:33:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:41:59 clearly the math is wrong. otherwise you'd get a speedup from interleaving 32 such threads on a single processor... 16:45:30 (In this approach, the number of samples you need in order to find a collision is basically unchanged by the parallelization; the only speedup you get is from generating those samples faster. You'll also consume memory much faster, which is why the distinguished point trick is so brilliant, because it saves memory essentially for free.) 16:57:10 int-e: hm... yes, you're right 16:57:32 so only 32 such threads 16:58:25 and sure, you're consume memory faster, but eventually you'll need essentially the same amount of memory for single-threaded than multi-threaded 17:02:31 only linear speedup then 17:02:40 still should be worth 17:10:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:19:19 -!- atrapado_ has joined. 17:22:04 -!- zseri has joined. 17:50:01 `` python -c 'import hashlib; print [hashlib.sha256(x).hexdigest()[0:14] for x in ["ccf506fc58ee23", "843c7fa058d321"]]' 17:50:01 ​['a522d3c3f644a5', 'a522d3c3f644a5'] 17:51:12 Someone else can do 64 bits, I guess. 18:14:02 * Taneb hello 18:15:23 Taneb is here to do 64 bits? 18:18:50 I don't think so 18:23:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:29:42 -!- LKoen_ has joined. 18:31:10 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:38:12 -!- LKoen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:38:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:40:21 shachaf: I could be wrong here, but I figure it's more efficient to store the original value (or a truncation of it) in the hash table and recompute the full digest each time two hash table entries are at the same place, than to store the digest and try to search again for the originla string. 18:40:38 But this is from a mental calculation that could be wrong. 18:42:09 For searchging for a 64-bit collision, I'd try to get time on a machine with 32 gigabytes of RAM (which isn't too rare these days), allocate a hash table of 30 gigabytes size or something, with 2**33 entries and 4 bytes of the input in each entry. 18:42:32 Preferably a machine with fast RAM. 18:43:21 And ideally compute digest quickly with GPU or something, so you get the digests as fast as you can access the main RAM. 18:43:36 But just multiple cpu threads might be fast enough for that. 18:49:49 What? Why do all that instead of using the distinguished point trick? 18:53:16 shachaf: what's the "distinguished point trick"? 18:55:34 You repeatedly feed the output of the hash back into itself until you get a "distinguished" hash (e.g. where the first 16 bits are 0). Then you just store the distinguished hashes and which hashes led to them. 18:56:04 If two hashes end up at the same distinguished hash, you go through the chain and find where they connect. 18:56:18 shachaf: hmm 18:56:24 I'm not explaining it very well but you can read the paper I linked to above. 18:56:30 I should sleep but now it's too late to sleep. 18:56:40 But if I don't sleep I'll regret it. And if I do sleep I'll regret it. 18:56:49 how well does that parallelize? 18:57:10 might work I guess 18:57:13 The paper I linked is about parallelizing it. 18:57:27 I guess it works pretty well if you use a central store for the distinguished points, and your chains are long enough. 18:57:49 http://people.scs.carleton.ca/~paulv/papers/JoC97.pdf is this the paper? 18:57:55 Yes. 18:58:06 let me see 18:58:13 this trick always sounds like black magic 18:59:04 What's black about this magic? 18:59:32 Just look at the diagram, it's pretty simple when it's pointed out. 18:59:53 You don't even need to feed the output of the hash back into the hash, I guess. 19:00:29 Or maybe you do, I don't know. 19:01:37 I'm looking at https://pdaian.com/blog/collision-finding-the-maxwell-way/ now 19:01:51 I'm trying to understand the trick now 19:02:59 whoa, I know that Maxwell 19:04:00 Though it's hardly his way, it's an old trick. 19:04:08 I don't understand how you find the first entry of the sequence that collides 19:04:26 you can find one repetition in the sequence easily, but that's not enoguh 19:04:37 oh, I see! 19:05:00 Once you have two short chains that end up at the same distinguished point, you can just scan through them. 19:05:22 you store milestones to break the sequence to shorter part, and use the milestones to find the approxmiate first collision 19:05:51 and then recompute and store the elements in the segments where the first collision must be 19:06:11 Right. 19:06:20 which needs only on the order of magnitude of 2**16 entries, not 2**32, for a 2**64 collision, although there's a higher constant factor 19:06:23 nice 19:06:39 this way you never run out of memory 19:06:48 nice trick 19:06:51 Higher constant factor? 19:08:20 as in, you don't actually use 2**16 times less memory, only like 2**12 times less or something 19:08:45 hmm wait 19:08:52 you could do with fewer milestones 19:08:53 sorry 19:09:02 then you actually need even less than 2**16 entries 19:09:05 no wait 19:09:10 you do need 2**16 milestones 19:09:12 I'm confused 19:10:26 interesting, thank you for telling about this rho trick 19:10:47 I had heard of it about prime factoring, but I don't think I realized it's useful for crypto collision finding like this 19:12:49 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:23:32 -!- Cthulhux has quit (Changing host). 19:23:32 -!- Cthulhux has joined. 19:30:38 <\oren\> yo guys hav u herd? 19:31:11 <\oren\> BFS is supposedly going to SSTO for testing 19:31:24 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:33:16 I made another container format, which is GLOGG container, similar to Ogg but I avoided what I considered are the problems with it, without making it so much more complicated like many other formats are. 19:35:49 One problem with Ogg seems how you might not be able to avoid losing data when mixing or separating streams, and how programs might not be able to do this at all if any streams are unrecognized; GLOGG includes the necessary information in "control pages" to allow them to be separated and combined even if some of them are unrecognized. 19:36:59 (Another thing the control page does is to identify the codec by given a UUID, as well as support alternate streams (for languages and such), and relations between streams.) 19:37:07 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 19:38:16 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:38:29 (Also, the checksum has been reduced to 16-bits in order to reduce the amount of overhead.) 19:38:49 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:39:06 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 19:46:32 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:46:50 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 19:59:45 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:11:05 -!- zseri_ has joined. 20:12:29 -!- Remavas-3 has joined. 20:14:34 -!- zseri has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:16:02 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:31:03 What you think of this, please? 20:52:53 -!- SigmundYx has joined. 21:01:39 `` python -c 'import hashlib; print [hashlib.sha256(x).hexdigest()[0:16] for x in ["5fc2544f27bc209e", "aeaefd69151cba80"]]' 21:01:40 ​['6eeafe59946b43c3', '6eeafe59946b43c3'] 21:12:13 -!- zseri_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:14:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:53:16 -!- imode has joined. 22:18:36 -!- atrapado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:48:24 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:54:39 -!- boily has joined. 22:55:49 coily 22:59:04 QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:00:08 @tell ais523 `` python -c 'import hashlib; print [hashlib.sha256(x).hexdigest()[0:16] for x in ["5fc2544f27bc209e", "aeaefd69151cba80"]]' 23:00:08 Consider it noted. 23:02:53 -!- SigmundYx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:06:59 `5 w 23:07:05 1/2:html//HTML is short for "hope this mess loads". \ arabic//.scihpylgoreiH sa drah sa ton hguoht ,troppus stnof ekam ot drah yrev si taht egaugnal citimes lartnec a si cibarA \ obvious//Obvious, adj.: A postulate used to prove a wide variety of theorems too arduous to prove by other means. In American Sign Language, it is denoted by a vigor 23:07:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:09:03 `n 23:09:04 2/2:ous waving of the hands. \ sgdq//SGDQ is Summer Games Done Quick, an annual video games speedrunning event for charity ever summer, see http://gamesdonequick.com and https://gamesdonequick.com/tracker/events/ \ restaurant//A restaurant is a type of transactional resource-distributing system powered by lazy evaluation. 23:13:19 -!- Remavas-3 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:23:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:45:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COUNTING CHICKEN). 23:51:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:56:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:58:25 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:59:45 babble: I wonder what kinds of binary trees you could generate from repeatedly factoring a given number. 2017-10-17: 00:08:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:12:55 imode: self-multiplying ones hth 00:20:57 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:23:41 oerjan: what'cha mean. 00:36:48 * oerjan mourns at the pun crashing flat to the ground 00:45:37 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Evilinator. 00:47:21 hmm, freefall lead me to reread http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2008/02/26/sand_wont_save_you_this_time 00:47:28 led even 00:51:27 -!- Evilinator has changed nick to Bowserinator. 00:52:29 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:56:56 int-e: i linked that here after the previous comic 00:58:09 i suspect the robots wouldn't let kornada work there, anyway 01:01:52 oerjan: ah you may recall that I'm always lagging one comic behind on FF. 01:02:40 and I didn't see the link 01:02:56 (sorry, and good night) 01:15:41 -!- LKoen has joined. 01:18:58 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:20:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:43:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:43:39 -!- griajiiw has joined. 01:43:39 -!- griajiiw has left. 01:48:03 -!- acheacepo has joined. 01:48:04 -!- acheacepo has left. 01:52:41 -!- kiswe has joined. 01:52:41 -!- kiswe has left. 02:35:08 `learn Connecticut is a US state named in recognition of its extremely unstable communication networks. 02:35:52 there might be something else unstable here 02:35:58 * oerjan pokes HackEgo 02:36:36 hm wiki is up 02:36:44 `botsnack 02:37:07 @echo hi 02:37:07 echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo hi"]} 02:37:07 target:#esoteric rest:"hi" 02:38:56 fizzie: HackEgo seems a bit stuck 02:39:08 `help 02:39:08 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch [] " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:39:10 oh 02:39:12 hm 02:39:22 something's truly broken it. 02:40:11 nothing new in the web repository 02:40:39 `ls 02:40:47 `help ls 02:41:39 this reminds me of those permission shenanigans 02:46:23 hm... 02:47:24 `fetch canary https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/canary 02:47:38 hmph 02:48:46 `run echo hi 02:48:55 `run /bin/echo hi 02:49:06 fizzie: looks bad 02:49:13 hi oerjan 02:49:16 hichaf 02:49:18 Do you like this? 02:49:55 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 02:50:39 hm maybe i should check the logs 02:51:11 The logs were mostly about hash collisions. 02:51:17 `` python -c 'import hashlib; print [hashlib.sha256(x).hexdigest()[0:16] for x in ["5fc2544f27bc209e", "aeaefd69151cba80"]]' 02:51:20 i meant for HackEgo commands 02:51:35 yes, but the last one was a boily `n 02:51:48 classic boily 02:52:06 and i suspect that's unlikely to break things. 02:53:31 Remember the old days when HackEgo didn't even have `n? 02:53:38 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53210&oldid=51353 * Oerjan * (+20) Testing HackEgo link 02:54:06 it was so hard to dig up wisdoms in snow uphill both ways 02:55:02 it's not _just_ the sandbox, since `fetch didn't work 02:55:35 `fetch canary https://esolangs.org/ 02:56:00 so perhaps the repository locking is at fault 02:56:34 `revert 02:57:09 may have do undo that one later, if it suddenly gets through 02:57:15 `help 02:57:15 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch [] " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:57:31 oh hm 02:57:53 `fetch tmp/test https://esolangs.org/ 02:57:58 nah 02:58:11 that's not even supposed to lock, is it? 02:58:32 then again, it may do because it was exempted from the run-twice thing 02:59:01 `fetch /bin/sh https://esolangs.org/ 02:59:04 hum 03:01:48 Did you know Edwin Brady was one of the Whitespace people? 03:04:22 not that i recall 03:05:22 oh we've got a page on him 03:08:45 It should be possible to use Ogg codecs with GLOGG without a problem, if you have the UUID to identify the codec. 03:09:24 oerjan: Hmm. 03:11:20 Is there a possibility that a JPEG decoder can have an option to try to recover the fractional parts of rounded data in order to achieve a better quality output than the input picture? 03:11:47 oerjan: There's a stuck umlbox process. They're supposed to have limits, I don't know why that's stuck. I remember this happening some time before as well, though. 03:11:57 ah 03:12:25 does it say what command it is running? 03:12:31 ...it's running a hash collision search. 03:12:36 oh :P 03:12:46 shachaf: YOU WERE RIGHT 03:12:52 SOMEHOW 03:13:03 Something in Perl. 03:13:04 i guess b_jonas continued in private 03:13:13 fizzie: yes, there were several in the logs 03:13:32 but since boily did a successful `n after those, i thought they couldn't be the culprit 03:14:13 There's in fact about a dozen umlbox processes, so I guess it manages to fill up some sort of a limit. 03:15:09 aha 03:15:13 No output. 03:15:14 In another world: /bin/sh 03:15:15 hi 03:15:16 ​['6eeafe59946b43c3', '6eeafe59946b43c3'] 03:15:23 2017-10-17 02:15:12 URL:https://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page [18485] -> "tmp/test" [1] 03:15:24 Done. 03:15:25 canary: Permission denied 03:15:26 ​`ls? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:15:27 hi 03:15:28 Learned 'connecticut': Connecticut is a US state named in recognition of its extremely unstable communication networks. 03:15:29 canary: Permission denied 03:15:30 bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom 03:15:31 ​>:-D 03:15:39 Open the floodgates. 03:15:57 yay 03:16:41 `undo 11226 03:16:43 patching file wisdom/ior 03:17:55 `rm tmp/test 03:17:56 No output. 03:18:39 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:18:56 `` ls -l canary 03:18:57 ​---------- 1 5000 0 0 Apr 17 19:17 canary 03:19:30 that sort of ruins the file's purpose, although these days a `rm probably times out before reaching it anyway 03:20:28 <\oren\> `` yacc 03:20:28 ​/usr/bin/bison: -y: missing operand \ Try '/usr/bin/bison --help' for more information. 03:36:37 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:41:36 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 03:42:47 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:51:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:56:39 <\oren\> when c++ supports unicode I will make a namespace called std and have std::string in it 03:57:42 \oren\: the standard does, not universally implemented though 04:04:44 `` python -c 'import hashlib; print [hashlib.sha256(x).hexdigest()[0:16] for x in ["8b9540f8208243d4", "745ecd23d5c46df7"]]' 04:04:45 ​['348cead2547ec7b4', '348cead2547ec7b4'] 04:10:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:13:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:32:59 -!- mtve has joined. 06:56:32 -!- Remavas has joined. 06:58:57 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:02:13 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:07:30 [wiki] [[Tables]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53211&oldid=53208 * HereToAnnoy * (+3335) Added Specification 0000 07:11:37 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53212&oldid=53211 * HereToAnnoy * (+82) Grammatical and table fix 07:13:52 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53213&oldid=53201 * HereToAnnoy * (+20) /* T */ - added TwoFiftyFive to list 07:15:55 [wiki] [[TwoFiftyFive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53214&oldid=53205 * HereToAnnoy * (+0) 256 things in 0,1,2,3,...,255, not 255 things 07:34:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:37:21 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:24:51 -!- jaboja has joined. 08:33:49 -!- ski has joined. 08:38:02 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:43:54 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:46:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: *POOF*). 08:48:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:40:26 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:43:23 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: lol rip). 09:43:33 -!- ATMunn has joined. 11:13:58 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:18:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:31:17 wait, my process stuck? 11:31:44 `ps x 11:33:03 You're not going to see another sandbox's process in ps. 11:34:26 -!- boily has joined. 11:38:01 but why didn't the process get killed after a minute or something? 11:39:00 also, don't laugh, when you run multiple commands in buubot or perlbot, you can ps or kill the processes for the other commands 11:39:22 ok, not ps actually 11:39:25 but you can kill them 11:39:43 You can't ps but you can kill? How does that work? 11:40:41 shachaf: the commands are running with ulimit of no new file descriptors 11:40:48 also no new processes 11:40:52 so you can't open /proc or ps 11:40:59 but kill still works 11:41:38 That's kind of scow. 11:41:46 hmm, maybe it no longer does that 11:41:50 it's possible that they changed it 11:41:52 let me try 11:42:03 but I'm sure it let me kill back when buubot was alive (lots of years ago) 11:42:45 Do you just guess the pid? 11:43:10 shachaf: no, I just kill every process 11:43:20 they're in a separate uid so they won't kill the bot 11:43:31 hmm, in fact 11:43:47 how does the anagolf evaluator handle this? 11:43:58 I think it has a proper sandbox 11:44:08 anyway, perlbot seems to have changed, it doesn't allow this easy exploit 11:44:12 you have to work harder to break it 11:56:09 Anyway, how are you in the UK? I hear there was a hurricane or something. 12:05:13 (which sounds rather impossible, by the way.) 12:05:51 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Ophelia_(2017) 12:06:44 it makes me feel less safe when some crazy impossible random meteorological stuff happens 12:23:08 `? banana 12:24:42 who maintains the HackEgo nowadays again? 12:24:49 no one hth 12:25:10 yep. nobody. 12:25:24 but at least fungot is here 12:25:25 b_jonas: mr president, there are key sectors, such as tourism and nuclear energy. this, in fact, i am surprised because that emphasis denotes fnord of this kind were called into question and, as far as possible, that the rules we currently have in telephony to the provision and use of additives in tobacco products which may make the directive a large number of member states were not prepared to take the kind of violence we see 12:26:02 fungot: can you lead us to HackEgo's body? can we reanimate it? 12:26:02 boily: madam president, first of all have to be referred back to committee. what is important is to see how that fnord out. agenda 2000 and the ensuing reactions. the european union has a key role to play at being teacher, to coin a phrase, in english, and political freedoms. 12:26:24 we must fnord out. 12:26:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TRICK CHICKEN). 12:26:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:27:05 fungot: you didn't coin nothin' 12:27:06 shachaf: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, in relation to other automobile industries. we need to have regard to this dossier. this is why i wholeheartedly concur with those of the commission, and not for personal reasons, concerning content, which again prove the need for people carrying out activities before the date of december 1998 cannot be adhered to, because one of the most critical sectors for the vienna european coun 12:30:39 I wonder, what precaution could a humanoid dungeon adventurer use to pass through a banana peel trap, when he does percieve it, but it's in a one-tile wide corridor so he can't go around, and doesn't want to spend time disarming it. 12:31:06 I guess flight or a flying steed could work. 12:41:07 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 12:47:25 b_jonas: I don't know why it got stuck -- it's *supposed* to have a timeout, and conventional infinite loops have managed to. 12:48:03 b_jonas: Anyway, the reason why it's broken this time is the *other* bug, not the sandbox one -- the 'socat' process it uses to talk to IRC is again consuming 100% of CPU apparently doing nothing. 12:48:15 I think that might sometimes get triggered if it gets disconnected from the server. 12:48:26 Actually, maybe I could attach a gdb to it just for funs. 12:48:41 "bash: gdb: command not found" 12:48:46 ...well, maybe it's not that important. 12:49:56 -!- HackEgo has joined. 12:50:12 `ping 12:50:13 pong 12:52:13 fizzie: yeah. I understand, my irc bot is unmaintained for years too, and has mysterious bugs where it doesn't notice that the IRC server disconnected. the whole thing is ripe for rewriting, "when I have time". 12:52:35 I'll probably eventually rewrite it to some overengineered second system monstrosity. 12:52:40 Eventually. 12:54:23 I still don't really consider HackEgo "my bot", even though I guess I'm the closest thing it has to a maintainer. 12:54:40 I'm not saying you're maintaining it 12:54:50 I'm just saying I understand how irc bots end up unmaintained 12:54:59 I'm not really maintaining my irc bots either 12:55:12 Wonder if Eggdrop's still around. 12:55:25 Also, the whole server running the bot should have been reinstalled like twice already 12:56:05 "Eggdrop is the oldest Internet Relay Chat (IRC) bot still in active development", last stable release "13 Aug 2017". Huh, looks that way. 13:23:31 -!- Remavas has joined. 13:24:11 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:33 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:25:50 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest26185. 13:34:54 int-e: Today Daniel Bernstein posted about that paper at https://blog.cr.yp.to/20171017-collisions.html 13:34:58 Funny timing. 13:38:50 b_jonas: ☝ 14:02:00 harsh 14:21:11 -!- Guest26185 has changed nick to Slereah. 14:43:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:58:50 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:40:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:40:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:04:53 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:13:34 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:32:35 -!- imode has joined. 18:49:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:55:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:01:57 -!- xkapastel has joined. 19:59:18 -!- SuperNerd has joined. 19:59:30 -!- SuperNerd has quit (Client Quit). 20:21:50 does anybody have that proof that shows FRACTRAN as non-TC if it's executed out-of-order/maximally/nondeterministically? 20:27:12 -!- shikhin has changed nick to SHIKHIN. 20:28:05 -!- SHIKHIN has changed nick to shikhin. 20:30:37 never heard of it. but i 20:30:52 i dont think thats true? 20:31:11 either ais or oerjan mentioned it. 20:32:02 i think ais523 was saying that you could write programs in such a way that they enforced the order of execution 20:32:20 but i wasnt there for everythimg that was said 20:32:23 yeah, by using flag registers. 20:35:56 quintopia: 2017-10-11 17:50:16 oerjan (note that evaulation order in Fractran doesn't matter for TCness; you can write programs so that only one rule at a time ever applies) <-- istr we found out that was false at some point. 20:37:06 someone had a counterexample? 20:37:51 https://ptpb.pw/5wK3 a reasonably full snippet. 20:47:36 oh okay 20:48:08 so maybe the nondeterministic version can compute all total computations? 20:49:02 * imode shrugs. 20:54:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:58:00 -!- imode has joined. 21:01:49 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53215&oldid=53212 * HereToAnnoy * (-124) minor spec fix 21:02:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:14:14 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53216&oldid=53215 * HereToAnnoy * (+132) spec fix #2 21:14:59 [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53217&oldid=52980 * HereToAnnoy * (+395) started Tables inplementation 21:38:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:40:36 <\oren\> I need to decode terminal gibberish 21:40:38 <\oren\> 0.0000000}��pS�Cý41?/⎽┘▮0 ␋┼ ␌⎺┼├␊│├ ⎺° ␍␋⎽┘▮1C⎺└└▒┼␍ ␊│␋├␊␍ ┬␋├␤ ┼⎺┼-≥␊⎼⎺ ⎽├▒├┤⎽ 1 21:42:33 <\oren\> does anyone know a way to decode the above line? 21:42:49 <\oren\> it was output by a partially functional program 21:48:12 <\oren\> hmm... 21:49:33 <\oren\> oh, if I redirect it to a file it doesn't get screwed up 21:49:45 <\oren\> but catting the file screws up my terminal 21:50:06 Does it have weird control codes in it 21:50:14 <\oren\> yes 21:51:15 <\oren\> basically the coded line is an error message of the form fprintf(stderr,"%s is invalid" or something 21:51:36 <\oren\> and the part that got %s contains something strange 21:55:02 <\oren\> I wish i could disable whatever escape it is that switches this 22:02:51 <\oren\> 0.0000000}<86>pSC^N<98>4朱Կ/sj_0 in context of disj_1Command exited with non-zero status 1 22:05:28 <\oren\> control N! 22:25:52 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:05 -!- tromp has joined. 22:45:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:13:09 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:15 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:14:19 -!- sleffy has joined. 23:29:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2017-10-18: 00:06:23 -!- tromp has joined. 00:10:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:15:43 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:16:34 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53218&oldid=53216 * HereToAnnoy * (-39) Terminate instruction unnecessary 00:20:19 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53219&oldid=53218 * HereToAnnoy * (+54) 00:28:17 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53220&oldid=53219 * HereToAnnoy * (+35) example fix 00:28:52 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:57:31 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:58:14 <\oren\> a bunch of jumbled bytes suddenly appeared in an otherwise ok file 00:58:55 <\oren\> i'm thinking this might be my first time witnessing real data corruption 01:00:30 <\oren\> }<86>pSC^N<98>4朱Կ/ appears in one file and not the other. they are supposed to be identical 01:01:25 <\oren\> well I'm overwriting the corrupted one with the good one 01:38:14 -!- xkapastel has joined. 01:42:15 -!- brandonson has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:54:22 -!- tromp has joined. 01:55:39 -!- imode has joined. 01:58:28 'lo. 01:59:13 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:05:44 -!- brandonson has joined. 02:13:38 -!- boily has joined. 02:13:40 QUINTHELLOPIA! 02:38:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DOZEN CHICKEN). 02:41:38 an update from earlier, a P System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system) is similar to fractran and it emphasizes nondeterministic rule application, only with the idea of permeable membranes in place. 02:41:56 I don't see the difference between a "permeable membrane" and a flag register. 02:42:12 so why would fractran be non-TC with nondeterministic rule application? 02:50:47 -!- tromp has joined. 02:55:25 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:37:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:38:37 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:38:52 -!- fungot has joined. 04:16:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:18:47 -!- erkin has joined. 05:14:42 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:55:20 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:08:37 -!- Cale has joined. 06:35:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:07:31 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6AcH-jch1M 07:16:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:21:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:28:48 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 08:14:41 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:35:01 -!- tromp has joined. 08:41:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:04:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:04:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:25:27 -!- puck1pedia has joined. 09:25:33 -!- diginet_ has joined. 09:25:35 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 09:28:35 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:28:35 -!- diginet has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 09:28:35 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:28:37 -!- diginet_ has changed nick to diginet. 09:32:07 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:33:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:33:41 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 09:33:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:45:41 -!- potato44 has joined. 09:52:09 is there any actual paradox that's fundamentally different from the liar's paradox? 09:57:46 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:00:16 "paradox" isn't a very good word. 10:04:40 -!- potato44 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 10:04:43 is there any actual encyclopedia that's fundamentally different from the liar's encyclopedia? 10:41:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:04:44 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox 11:04:57 it's called a paradox, but there's no logical contradiction at all. 11:06:39 No but it goes against the intuitive way of thinking 11:06:47 hence 11:06:49 paradox 11:07:14 I know. It's an answer to izabera's question; any instance of the liar's paradox would involve a logical contradiction. 11:07:38 o 11:08:19 The axiom of choice gets a bad rap but frankly the negation of the axiom of choice is even worse 11:08:24 good answer int-e 11:12:56 I don't mind the axiom of choice. The idea that the so called "real numbers" have any representation in physics is the underlying fallacy to my mind. 11:15:27 Well you can try do work without the reals, but good luck 11:16:50 I wouldn't. You just have to admit that you're building *models* or reality, and often surprisingly accurate ones at that. 11:17:11 s/reality/the physical world/ 11:17:14 well yes, that's what physics is for 11:17:16 (assuming it exists :P) 11:17:55 I tend to 11:20:03 -!- puck1pedia has changed nick to puckipedia. 11:20:08 I've got a full book of axiomatizing physics with geometrical axioms 11:20:13 It is the worst idea of all times 11:21:10 what about pizza and milk 11:21:44 where else would you dip your pizza 11:29:16 apparently it is possible to do quantum computing with discrete path integrals 11:29:20 That might be interesting 11:37:17 -!- boily has joined. 11:55:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:11:01 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:14:08 -!- mtve has joined. 12:22:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CARBURETOR CHICKEN). 12:46:42 -!- erkin has joined. 12:47:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:14:00 izabera: Oh, I have a paradox for you. 13:15:03 If you agree to be an apprentice until your 21st birthday, but you were born on Feb 29, you'll have to stay an apprentice until you're 84. 13:24:02 that's a lame paradox! 13:27:32 Some people would go so far as to call it "a most ingenious paradox". 13:42:31 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:44:00 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 13:50:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:10:34 -!- fungot has joined. 14:47:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:05:58 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:26:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:33:35 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:43:20 -!- tromp has joined. 16:06:14 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:16:05 -!- tromp has joined. 16:30:48 -!- SigmundYx has joined. 16:56:35 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:08:46 -!- SigmundYx has quit (Quit: See Ya.). 17:15:32 shachaf: lol 17:19:38 it's a potential legal problem 17:20:05 yes but that's not what shachaf is getting at 17:22:07 (German law doesn't count birthdays, it counts years since birth. If you're born on February 29th, each year will end on a February 28th, so from that perspective the next day your birthday, alternating between March 1st and February 29th.) 17:22:42 some verb 17:37:21 How does it define a year though 17:38:32 By date. It takes the calendar for granted in this context, hmm. 17:40:21 so the interval between two identical dates is 1 year if it's not the 29th, and otherwise that? 17:40:35 Slereah: so the interesting case here is that the day a year after a February 29th is the last day of February. This is also applicable for the date 1 month after August 31st, for example. 17:41:46 the extreme case being the day 1 month after January 31st; it'll also be the last day of February. In particular 1 month after one month after some day may be different from 2 months after the same day. Fun. 17:50:38 Ontario law is clear that February 29's anniversary happens on February 28 on a non-leap year 17:50:58 the rules on months are similar 17:54:32 it's the same in german law, it's just that for legal age, the anniversary isn't relevant; it's the completion of n years starting at the birth date that matter. 17:57:39 the law will have phrases like "after completion of the 18th year of life" 18:14:48 -!- [ATMunn] has joined. 18:28:37 ah 18:37:40 -!- [ATMunn] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:38:08 -!- [ATMunn] has joined. 18:53:08 -!- [ATMunn] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:53:21 -!- rottytooth has joined. 18:53:42 -!- [ATMunn] has joined. 18:55:11 -!- [ATMunn] has quit (Client Quit). 18:55:48 -!- rottytooth has quit (Client Quit). 18:56:19 -!- danieltemkin has joined. 18:58:31 -!- danieltemkin has changed nick to rottytooth. 19:31:38 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:31:54 -!- fungot has joined. 19:59:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:38:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:39:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:22:44 `unidecode ◯ 21:22:50 ​[U+25EF LARGE CIRCLE] 21:24:01 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:40:07 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:42:55 -!- clog has joined. 21:43:08 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:50:51 -!- pdxleif has joined. 21:57:37 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:57:51 -!- rottytooth has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:59:22 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:01:19 -!- pdxleif has joined. 22:01:33 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:04:48 -!- izabera has joined. 22:13:30 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 22:13:48 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 22:13:48 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:13:55 -!- imode has joined. 22:19:03 Hmm. I was making a new offsite backup disk, and turns out I've encrypted the previous one. Which makes sense (can never be too careful with those esolangs.org backups), but I've no idea about what sort of passphrase would unlock it. 22:19:43 This does not bode well if I ever actually need to restore something from those backups. 22:20:17 perhaps you should do another backup 22:20:31 oh, wait, you are ok 22:20:38 For now, yes. 22:20:56 But chances are I'll manage to forget about how I encrypted the new one I'm making, as well. 22:31:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:44:17 clearly you need a backup plan for your backup plan 22:46:11 that reminds me that I have no clue what my project euler password is anymore :P 22:46:31 which may be saving me a lot of trouble 23:12:07 -!- boily has joined. 23:13:59 `5 w 23:14:05 1/3:bdsmreclist//* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits \ prography//Prography is the art of turning computational algorithms into something totally incomprehensible to anyone whose brain isn't made of silicon and arsenic. \ double dactyl//Curious spurious juvenile poetry that is supposedly tr 23:14:06 `n 23:14:07 2/3:icky to write, but its obsession with sesquipedality makes double dactyls quite gaudy and trite. \ peer//Peer Gynt is a famous Norwegian troll. His reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections and torrenting his own files. \ earth//Topologically speaking, the Earth has been a coffee mug ev 23:14:08 `n 23:14:09 3/3:er since that hole to China was dug. 23:14:49 helloily 23:15:13 i learned yesterday about the ridiculousness of quebecois curse words 23:15:46 QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:16:01 ack so many capital letters 23:16:10 they aren't ridiculous. they are categorical! you can compose them any way you want ^^ 23:16:25 you can do that with most curse words 23:16:39 but most places don't curse by listing props used in communion 23:17:18 it adds charm and tradition! 23:18:11 it promotes precise vocabulary, diction and personal expression! 23:18:25 it's conjugable! 23:21:44 conjugable tabaridiculousnakess 23:22:55 :D 23:41:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:50 -!- augur has joined. 2017-10-19: 00:02:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:03:57 -!- imode has joined. 00:08:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:23:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:30:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:31:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:25 -!- imode has joined. 00:35:21 * boily slightly mapoles hppavilion[1] 00:35:24 -!- augur has joined. 00:36:49 * hppavilion[1] invokes Newton's Third Law and slightly mapoles boily with equal magnitude in the opposite direction 00:54:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:59:47 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 01:12:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:15:01 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 01:17:47 [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53221&oldid=53217 * HereToAnnoy * (+1051) finished /* Tables */ 01:19:02 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:19:36 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53222&oldid=53213 * HereToAnnoy * (+39) /* T */ added Tables to language list 01:24:18 [wiki] [[User:HereToAnnoy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53223&oldid=53209 * HereToAnnoy * (-15) i'm dumb 01:30:18 [wiki] [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53224&oldid=52797 * HereToAnnoy * (+443) /* Cheating Quines */ - added Tables example 01:31:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:31 Some people would go so far as to call it "a most ingenious paradox". <-- is this a quote from a relevant poem 01:31:40 oerjan: from a relevant play 01:31:45 aha 01:34:14 [wiki] [[Talk:Revolution 9]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53225 * HereToAnnoy * (+199) Created page with "==STOP MAKING BRAINFUCK CLONES== Please stop making [[brainfuck]] clones.
Especially bad ones.
--~~~~" 01:39:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:40:00 -!- augur has joined. 01:47:30 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 01:48:20 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 01:57:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:25 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:09 But chances are I'll manage to forget about how I encrypted the new one I'm making, as well. <-- this might be a rare case where writing it down is the best option hth 02:08:58 damn. walls aren't passable in the labyrinth. 02:12:41 counter machines are beautiful. 02:14:49 imode: i remembered how to do the proof. how much math do you know? i can do it short with compactness, or more long-winded without 02:15:22 oerjan: your choice! long-winded would be nice as I could study it and prompt you with questions in bulk rather than bug you randomly. :P 02:15:58 um the "compactness" is a technical math term, just so you know. 02:16:03 I'm digging into equivalent models and I see that it's rooted in counter machines, inspired by Minsky, Melzak and Lambek. 02:17:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ENFORCE CHICKEN). 02:17:22 shoot me the proof. 02:18:34 well ok first the common part. let's say you have a non-deterministic fractran program which simulates an ordinary one (so the result, and whether it halts, is unique). 02:19:08 right, and you could do that with extensive use of flag registers. 02:19:21 no, you cannot. that's what we're proving. 02:19:28 ah. continue. 02:20:44 now assume one instance of the computation runs through a sequence of numbers n_1, n_2, ... etc. 02:21:32 let p_1, p_2, ..., p_k be the primes used. split up each number n_i into a tuple of exponents, one coordinate for each prime. 02:22:01 so the computation is now a sequence of elements of N^k 02:22:24 alright, I follow. 02:23:24 the thing is, and this is what can be proved two ways: for any such sequence there must exist two indices i and j>i such that every coordinate of t_i is smaller than the corresponding coordinate of t_j. 02:24:08 that enforces an ordering, right? 02:24:09 um, _unless_ the sequence is finite. so from now on we're assuming the computation _doesn't_ halt. 02:24:22 yes, it's a partial ordering on tuples. 02:24:34 alright, I follow. 02:26:48 for now, assume this about number tuples. now because of how nondeterministic fractran works, once we've found i and j, we can modify what happens from point j to get a new computation that simply increases linearly every j-i steps. 02:27:18 (btw this partial order of tuples corresponds to the original number n_i dividing n_j) 02:28:27 but this means that we know how to solve the halting problem for nondeterministic fractran. thus it cannot be turing complete. 02:28:57 now, by nondeterministic fractran, you mean randomized rule application, right. 02:29:13 well not just randomized, freely chosen. 02:29:49 I figured. so, riddle me this. that made sense (though I'm still chewwing on it), but how can P systems claim to be turing complete then? 02:30:20 because things on different sides of membranes cannot react with each other, i presume. 02:30:41 right, but that's just a really fancy way of saying "I'm in this state so these rules apply, while the others don't." 02:30:48 which you can achieve by flag registers. 02:31:22 yes but you have a state for _each_ object, and there's no bound on the number of them, so you'd need infinitely many flags 02:31:53 hm wait 02:32:01 no what i'm saying isn't making sense. 02:32:12 let me go look up those P-systems. 02:32:19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system 02:32:28 membrane dissolution directly corresponds to a flag change. 02:33:22 in that if I have some register with the current state as an integer, I can always prepend a check for that register on each instruction to say "this will only fire if the current state is 3". 02:34:11 and a state transition is non-symmetrical, meaning we alter said register after we match on a given rule that says "go to the next state." 02:34:22 instead of just filling it back in with the previous value. 02:35:15 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:35:35 meaning a rule looks like state(1),... -> state(1),... when it's in one state, and on a transition, it looks like state(1),... -> state(2),... 02:36:27 to me that's what the membrane dissolution looks like. I can always know which state I'm in, and because of that I can enforce some sort of order on my computation without it having to be explicitly enforced by the rules of the P-system in question. 02:36:30 sans rule priority. 02:37:14 so that's really what's getting me. the fact that P-systems are very much like FRACTRAN but don't require any kind of explicit ordering in their rule set. 02:44:24 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:46:55 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 02:51:05 hm oh flags _might_ work in nondeterministic fractran, you just need two opposite ones. something is weird here. 02:51:46 the only odd thing is that you can't test for something like xor. 02:52:04 so the problem isn't flags, it's that you cannot test a number for being zero. 02:52:19 mhm. but you can get around that by simply using 1 and 2. :P 02:52:28 really simple, that. 02:52:29 not for your _real_ data 02:52:40 um no 02:52:51 you cannot test for <=1 either 02:53:47 no no, I mean... if I was using flags, instead of testing whether a flag was unset, I'd test if it was symbolically unset (i.e set to '1') or test if it was (i.e set to '2'). 02:54:08 that I can do. 02:54:20 ok, so membrane dissolution may work. what doesn't work is the "maximally parallel" rule. 02:54:42 if _that_ is essential for getting TC-ness without priorities. 02:55:33 these p-systems have too many variants, it seems, so the statement you don't need priorities is very vague on what you _do_ need instead. 02:55:47 probably a lot of membranes. 02:55:50 if I were to guess. 02:56:19 according to the abstract linked to, only 1 or 2 dependent on variants. 02:57:08 very curious. 02:57:39 i think of the things mentioned in the wikipedia article other than priorities, "maximally parallel" is what cannot be done in ND fractran. 02:58:30 how so? 02:58:34 well, or dividing membranes, but that seemed to be optional. 02:59:11 it's not too hard of a mental hurdle to delay the state change before you've gone through every possible rule. 02:59:36 that actually precludes every cellular automata, including 110. 03:00:54 though from experience most fractran programs would break. 03:03:25 imode: the problem is that to know when to stop delaying, you need to know when you have no more rules matching. 03:03:52 and you cannot do that because it's testing for absence of something 03:04:04 mmmm, I wouldn't say it is though. 03:04:29 it's less testing for the absence of something and more stopping if you have no more work to do. 03:04:44 "no more work to do" _is_ testing for absence. 03:04:51 converting a "test for negative" into a "continue if positive" is trivial. 03:05:05 because it is same as "we're out of input elements" 03:05:18 imode: no it's not. 03:05:38 the point is there is nothing _forcing_ you to continue. 03:06:03 I don't see your point. fractran's stopping point is "I can't find a rule to apply". 03:06:32 what's the difference here? "hand the unchanged state to all the rules, see what pops out, add together everything that pops out." 03:06:37 yes, but this is not a final program stopping point. it's a "go to next phase" stopping point. 03:07:27 and you don't have the means to disallow it randomly going to the next phase even if it _isn't_ finished. 03:07:30 say I have two states with 3 rules in them. one rule in the first state says to go to the second state (by triggering a flag register). 03:08:05 if I apply all 3 rules maximally, I'll have a union of whatever each rule's output is. 03:08:26 if I apply all 6 rules maximally, I'll ahve a union of whatever each rule's output is. 03:09:11 in fact, let me sketch this out and paste it. text diagrams on IRC suck. 03:12:07 https://ptpb.pw/u00g so we have two states, each of which has 3 rules. the first state has a transition to the second. regardless of what the specifics of any of these rules are, the current state register always regulates which set of rules is active. all the rules operate on the current state at once and get clumped together after they're done. 03:16:44 you're definitely answering the wrong question but now i need to think of a clearer example... 03:17:03 all ears. 03:21:40 ok this isn't quite satisfactory but how would you emulate the p-system rule "a -> aa" maximally parallely in ND fractran 03:22:08 just "a -> aa"? 03:22:19 yeah. 03:22:22 one sec. 03:22:51 note that it needs to exactly double the number of a's between some well-defined steps. 03:23:03 right, and it just involves one register. it's doubling a number. 03:23:29 and then it needs to do that again, indefinitely. 03:23:34 so.. I mean. 03:23:41 r1(1) -> r1(2). 03:23:58 2/4? 03:24:07 as the equivalent fractran program. 03:24:30 that would double the a's one at a time, not simultaneously. 03:24:43 or wait 03:24:53 steps are still there. 03:25:01 it's just that you don't find one rule then go back to the start. 03:25:14 you find all the rules that match, grab their left hand sides, and combine the whole set of states. 03:25:51 that's not how nondeterministic fractran works. you need to enforce it without having it a priori. 03:26:40 ND fractran does on rule at a time, P-systems as many as possible, and that may be the difference for TC-ness. 03:26:45 *one 03:26:59 hm. 03:27:19 not sure what your point was with the a -> aa rule. 03:27:33 well it's an example in the wiki page 03:27:42 because regardless of whether it's ND fractran or not, I'd still select a rule and apply it. 03:28:20 https://ptpb.pw/ua1Z 03:28:46 here's a.. I guess approximation of the rule set they presented. 03:29:16 i don't understand your notation 03:29:34 'state', 'a', 'c', 'd', 'e', etc. are just registers. 03:30:44 state(1),a(1) -> state(1),a(1),b(1) says "If the state register is >= 1 AND the 'a' register is => 1, subtract 1 from both and add 1 to the state register, the 'a' register, and the 'b' register." 03:30:58 because fractran simulates a register machine underneath. 03:33:15 hm, that could actually be modified into two rules for the first state. 03:33:39 gotta run for a few, but I'd like to continue this when I get back if possible oerjan! 03:34:03 that rule seems to be an infinite loop that can always trigger once it already has 03:34:50 oh i see. 03:39:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:00:45 -!- tromp has joined. 04:05:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:35:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:36:24 -!- imode has joined. 04:36:33 back. 04:37:08 i now have more useless knowledge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4 04:37:32 tell me your useless knowledge. 04:39:17 it was in that link hth 04:39:52 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:40:01 it did help. :P 04:41:27 also, that squaring P-system also uses maximal parallelism, i see. i'm pretty sure you'll have trouble converting it into a working ND fractran program. 04:42:37 i'm not sure NDF program even can multiply numbers 04:42:44 *programs 04:43:04 I think instead of talking about fractran, we should talk about counter machines in general. 04:43:25 because that's essentially all fractran is. 04:43:46 well yeah but ND fractran was what we started discussing, and that's weaker. 04:44:09 what exactly is ND fractran as you define it? free choice of rule application? 04:44:18 yep 04:45:08 so instead of "apply all the rules at once, then move on" it's "select a rule from the list at your own will. 04:45:15 "then move on." 04:46:17 I see why that could be difficult but I'm not convinced that it's not possible for a true conversion. 04:46:43 mainly because I could totally skip rules and go for the state transition first. 04:47:24 for counter machines, it corresponds, i think, to having any test have a chance of jumping as if a register is zero even if it isn't. 04:47:50 so instead of free choice you have some kind of chance mechanism. 04:48:16 that's pretty close. 04:48:18 i didn't really mean that. 04:48:37 although i suspect you cannot do everything with randomness either. 04:49:03 there was some literature on nondeterministic prolog programs, and if you wanna look at fractran as a really bizzaro prolog clone, that may be cool. :P 04:49:15 heh 04:50:53 https://ptpb.pw/uEFS so the only real issue I have with this system, if I was going to port it to ND fractran, is the rule with the asterisk next to it. 04:51:09 meaning if we're presented with any set of rules and one state transition, we can always choose the state transition as early as possible. 04:51:11 randomness might help, though, because you can then ignore a 0 probability of not halting. 04:52:40 imode: i think that rule is fine actually. the two previous ones are worse because how do you enforce that the first one doesn't fire alone? 04:53:15 yeah. you can go from the first to the third or repeatedly fire the first. 04:53:19 and totally ignore the second. 04:53:32 you could be dumb about it and break up every rule into its own state. 04:53:50 and form a mutual exclusion table.. thing. 05:00:07 I think you have to encode if-else combos if you're going to have "every rule is its own state". 05:00:30 meaning state(1),... -> state(2),...; state(2),... -> state(3),...; etc 05:00:41 trying to enforce some linear order. 05:01:34 "if you're in state N and your registers match these, go to state 1. else, go to state N+1." 05:03:01 I imagine there's some kind of way to encode that. if you could encode that you could write any set of fractran rules as ND fractran rules. 05:04:55 oerjan: do you know for sure that NDF is weaker than DF? 05:08:38 alercah: it is decidable whether it has to halt 05:08:46 see above 05:09:29 if it goes on long enough, you eventually _will_ reach a number divisible by a previous one. 05:09:44 and then you know it doesn't need to halt. 05:10:52 ah 05:12:54 about 3 hours ago 05:15:50 my question was whether NDF can evaluate all total recursive functions 05:16:11 i think there's also some way to upper bound the time until this happens, given the program and original input, and i suspect that the bound is primitive recursive. 05:16:24 so that's a no? 05:16:28 yeah 05:17:09 otoh i'm not entirely sure NDF can even multiply two numbers given in 2^m 3^n format. 05:17:19 so it might be even less. 05:18:09 I'd like to build a "skeleton" in an attempt to port DF programs to NDF. 05:18:21 what prevents it? 05:18:44 thought. :P 05:18:51 i meant for oerjan 05:18:56 why is multiplication hard 05:19:09 quintopia: i'm not _sure_ it's impossible, it's just that i don't see immediately how to do it either. 05:19:36 like everything else, it's about not being able to test for a "register" being smaller than a constant. 05:20:27 an approach might be to temporarily extend NDF to that kind of capability. 05:20:30 so you cannot really do it with nested for loops since you don't know how to break out of the inner one. 05:20:46 imode: but then it's a completely different task. 05:21:30 oh hm... 05:21:34 no. 05:21:47 https://cms.math.ca/10.4153/CMB-1961-031-9 Melzak's model is also completely equivalent to fractran, so this is interesting. 05:22:38 well, not completely equivalent. wrong words. the concept is the same (take N from here, put M here.) 05:24:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-machine_model#1961:_Melzak_model:_a_single_ternary_instruction_with_addition_and_proper_subtraction far more brief here. 05:24:41 the difference is that his model appears to deal with one register at a time, while conway's deals with multiple registers at a time. 05:24:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:27:44 but iirc he touches on something similar to conway's rule format. 05:31:17 imode: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-machine_model#1961:_Minsky.27s_model_of_a_partial_recursive_function_reduced_to_a_.22program.22_of_only_two_instructions 05:32:08 yeah, he encodes an else branch. 05:34:06 so, if every rule in NDF had an explicit action for else, then you could encode any sequence of DF commands. 05:34:27 -!- augur has joined. 05:34:37 that useless machine was invented by minsky btw 05:34:48 heh, really? 05:35:13 wow. 05:35:20 "Minsky's mentor at Bell Labs, information theory pioneer Claude Shannon (who later also became an MIT professor), made his own versions of the machine. He kept one on his desk, where science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke saw it. Clarke later wrote, "There is something unspeakably sinister about a machine that does nothing—absolutely nothing—except switch itself off", and he was fascinated by the 05:35:26 concept." 05:35:42 suicidal by design. :P 05:37:01 "Minsky also invented a "gravity machine" that would ring a bell if the gravitational constant were to change, a theoretical possibility that is not expected to occur in the foreseeable future." 05:38:22 shame he's now an icicle. 05:38:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:34 so if by some measure, you did manage to construct a kind of skeleton with an explicit else branch, you could port any DF program to NDF. but until you have that link, NDF is weaker. 05:44:43 it may be interesting to compare with prolog's style of nondeterminism. multiple matching rules but only one choice. 05:48:48 -!- tromp has joined. 05:53:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:54:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:09:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:39:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:43:38 -!- tromp has joined. 06:47:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:48:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:28:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheFriendlyEnemy * New user account 07:32:40 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53226&oldid=53178 * TheFriendlyEnemy * (+196) 07:37:51 -!- tromp has joined. 07:42:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:45:12 -!- augur has joined. 07:47:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:49:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:50:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 07:50:18 -!- augur has joined. 07:50:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:52:03 -!- tromp has joined. 07:57:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:00:37 -!- augur has joined. 08:04:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:05:38 spämmi 08:31:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:37:35 -!- augur has joined. 08:38:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:38:43 -!- augur has joined. 08:51:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:18:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:40:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:15:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:31:00 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:32:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:37:19 -!- HackEgo has joined. 10:58:58 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:02:02 -!- aloril has joined. 11:03:08 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:16:47 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:16:53 -!- clog has joined. 11:25:55 -!- augur has joined. 11:30:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:35:01 -!- boily has joined. 12:07:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:49 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 12:15:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:18 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 12:21:58 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:22:20 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:22:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LAIR CHICKEN). 12:22:51 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 13:19:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:23:16 -!- pledis has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:31:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:00:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:20:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:21:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:26:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:00:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:04:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:15:55 -!- augur has joined. 15:20:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:41:48 -!- augur has joined. 16:43:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:04:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:04:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 17:17:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:17:44 I like today's SMBC. http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/smell-this 17:18:38 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:25:18 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:25:31 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:27:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:43:25 if only all SMBC comics were funny like this 17:44:21 what 17:44:32 most are funnier than this 17:45:05 they are fine but they tend to repeat jokes a lot 17:45:14 Joke format, anyway 17:47:39 I don't know. Most of them seem to be based on people being jerks quite deliberately. 17:47:58 you try drawing 7+ comics a week for years without repeating yourself. im impressed how even with such a rigorous schedule, its still funnier than xkcd on average 17:48:10 Well here's the idea 17:48:17 maybe don't draw one per day 17:48:27 quintopia: I wouldn't try :P 17:49:11 th 17:49:39 the oatmeal is funnier on average but updates far less often 17:50:28 also all the long form side projects zach produces are creative and hilarious as well 17:51:17 Slereah: they mostly just repeat jokes with xkcd. if you read both, you get many of the jokes twice. it's unclear which is first among the two, and hard to find otu. 17:51:39 I don't think any of them are first in most cases 17:51:45 quintopia: but from what I've read about comics and comedy, being consistently funny is a full time job, though there are tricks that help (read diversely, talk to people, free association games, and obviously expect to discard 90% of your ideas.). 17:51:45 Those are just general science type jokes 17:51:49 quintopia: yep, it has a very rigorous schedule, and he even managed to publish a book (with good reviews) on schedule 17:51:59 the type that other people have done before and after 17:52:08 Like Nearing Zero in the olden days 17:52:22 Slereah: what's "Nearing Zero"? 17:52:30 and I don't think it's just science, but ok 17:52:32 It was an old science webcomic 17:52:49 do you know an URL? 17:52:53 Also a lot of SMBC comics remind me a bit of "The Parking Lot is Full" 17:52:58 another old timey webcomic 17:53:05 again, do you know an url? 17:53:14 Nearing Zero isn't online anymore but here's an arhcive 17:53:16 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/05/26/the-best-of-nearing-zero-by-nick-kim/ 17:53:45 oops 17:53:49 not actually a lot of them 17:54:33 http://www.lab-initio.com/best.html 17:54:34 There they are 17:54:39 there's a rather long list at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?272481-Webcomic-List 17:54:47 http://www.lab-initio.com/250dpi/nz015.jpg 17:54:48 and there was another comparable list somewhere but I can't remember wher 17:54:50 classic science joke 17:55:27 http://j.aufbix.org/plif/archive/archive.htm 17:55:34 and here's The Parking Lot is Full 17:55:41 http://imadudeyo.tumblr.com/ 17:55:44 thanks 17:56:16 . o O ( when we're done, lead poisoning will be the least of your worries ) 17:56:28 In the same kind of off-beat comics like that you had like 17:56:32 "Tom the dancing bug" 17:56:36 etc etc 17:56:53 No comics are really original, it is all just one long continuity 17:58:14 sure, and every joke is new to a newborn 17:58:15 all art is derivative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvd5JZkUXY http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html 18:01:01 http://www.lab-initio.com/250dpi/nz192.jpg 18:01:14 Possibly a reference to the nobel prize for the discovery of the CMB! 18:02:42 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:15:56 -!- erkin has joined. 18:27:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:25 -!- augur has joined. 18:32:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:33:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:43:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:45:57 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 19:01:53 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:47 -!- erkin has joined. 19:47:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:10:03 -!- imode has joined. 20:22:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:13 -!- augur has joined. 20:27:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:21 -!- augur has joined. 20:53:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:03:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:04:23 -!- augur has joined. 21:09:52 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:13:18 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:23:54 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:25:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:32:05 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:46:07 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:58:47 -!- Cale has joined. 22:04:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:16:41 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: grumble). 22:17:09 -!- grumble has joined. 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:54:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:58:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:04:42 -!- boily has joined. 23:45:11 I'm still not convinced NDF isn't turing complete. 23:48:03 NDF? 23:48:30 nondeterministic fractran. thue is nondeterministic and manages to be turing complete and the only difference is the idea that it supports ordered strings. 23:49:12 if you could show a thue program ported to NDF then you'd prove NDF is turing complete through thue. 23:49:38 the key is representing ordered strings. 2017-10-20: 00:06:40 thue can TC because you can force away the nondeterminism. 00:12:20 helloily 00:12:44 boily: like enforcing a linear order to the rewrite rules? 00:12:55 because I swear to god there's some way to do that with NDF. 00:13:26 QUINTHELLOPIA! 00:13:51 imhellode. something like that. 00:15:14 got any examples of that? I don't see many examples for Thue. 00:17:26 on the esolang page, the example right after the hello world. this shows a way to work around nondeterminism, by marking strings with delimiters. 00:18:10 by "cheating" with an alphabet of tags, you can guarantee that some steps always happen in order. 00:19:14 I figured as much. last night I was trying to do the equivalent problem but with multisets. naively I thought that I could enforce a linear ordering by just prepending every rule with a check for a state register. 00:50:42 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:46 fungot: nostril. 01:01:47 boily: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, that preparing the budget of the union's foreign policy is directed at solving all disputes with neighbouring countries. this has always fallen through, however, this motion does contain elements which are vital if economic and monetary union, the european union 01:06:07 -!- Cale_ has joined. 01:06:10 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:12:17 -!- Cale_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:12:27 -!- Cale has joined. 01:19:03 fungot: What do you think would be the right solution for the post-Brexit Northern Ireland border? 01:19:03 fizzie: the three reports we are debating a report by my colleague, who is an expert from the directorate-general on competition is removed from the original text of the commission's audacity when we see that the single currency because that is not a disaster. this is hardly dignified. it is also our duty to take back funds which could be managed without any major advantages for the regions in the european union 01:22:19 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:07 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:29:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:52 -!- Cale has joined. 01:51:22 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:54:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TARGET CHICKEN). 02:07:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:16:43 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:51:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:12:53 -!- augur has joined. 03:18:40 NRRD does not have a "page" kind 03:54:05 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:26 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:14:18 -!- trn has joined. 04:39:41 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:40:23 -!- Cale has joined. 05:55:42 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:05:32 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:19:57 anybody got any literature on nondeterministic register machines? shot in the dark. 06:20:11 actually make that nondeterministic counter machines. 06:33:24 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: ZNC Sucks >_>). 06:35:20 I do not have any 06:41:27 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:17:02 Nondeterministic has multiple meanings, I guess. 07:17:49 Yes, that is one of the thing that I thought too, and, therefore, should need the example? 07:18:15 hi zzo38 07:18:38 How's everything been? What's been going on in zzo38land? 07:18:52 I bet it's something interesting and oddly specific. 07:21:17 @metar KSFO 07:21:18 KSFO 200556Z 20017G23KT 10SM FEW008 BKN016 BKN027 17/14 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP113 60000 T01720139 10172 20161 58009 07:22:08 I have received the latest 2600 issue. I have also played GURPS game on the past weekend. Now, maybe we should need to make hole so that the room can be surveillance from the outside. Also, I worked more on XYZABCDE.ZZT game. 07:22:54 Is the hole in your GURPS game or outside of it? 07:23:37 In the wall, in the story, in the event of the GURPS game. 07:34:59 Although, maybe that isn't necessary and there is a better way to do something. 07:35:47 zzo38: Do you like category theory? 07:36:09 I think so. 07:38:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:43:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:12:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:14:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:17:18 <\oren\> OMG this song is just kyary pamyu pamyu slow and distorted 08:17:21 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/25YqRRvl9gk?t=4m20s 09:10:05 -!- augur has joined. 09:13:34 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:43:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:47:35 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:52:42 -!- iovoid has joined. 09:52:42 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 09:52:42 -!- iovoid has joined. 10:10:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:37 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:29:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:34:56 -!- boily has joined. 12:21:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLOWING CHICKEN). 12:28:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:58:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:30:08 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:31:14 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:31:14 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 14:31:14 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:50:00 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:50:53 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:56:05 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:04:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:11:56 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: lol rip). 15:12:10 -!- ATMunn has joined. 15:57:31 http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1000:_1000_Comics/1000_characters HAHAHAHAHAHA 16:16:08 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:16:43 oof 16:47:44 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:50:57 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:55:52 `? happy eyeballs 16:56:09 `ping 16:56:16 fungot, is HackEgo here? 16:56:17 b_jonas: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, we are in the third pillar and in the fundamental question is, in spite of everything and without denying the differences there may be effective. 16:57:55 fungot: wait if you're in the third pillar then who's holding up the other two? 16:57:56 int-e: mr president, mr purvis. i congratulate mrs jeggle on her report which contains figures mostly relating to the fact that the spanish presidency for appearing here so quickly, and also, i believe that, from the point with the rapporteur is correct to propose simplifying the rules of procedure, which we did not do so then we can also quote fnord of but which is not entirely coincidental. i wonder, will the commission prese 17:24:01 Hehe, libcurl has an option CURLOPT_PROTOCOLS to limit what protocol of urls it accepts. This has the set of protocols described as a bitmask in a C long. I wonder what they'll do when they have more than 31 protocols supported. Currently 28 bits are used. 17:35:36 -!- imode has joined. 17:46:07 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:46:40 -!- Cale has joined. 18:00:36 turns out that if you extend NDF to checking for zeros, it is turing complete. 18:00:51 meaning if I can check if a register is empty, it becomes equivalent to a petri net with an inhibitor arc. 18:00:56 and that is turing complete. 18:01:19 but without that (or without some equivalent without extending it), it is too weak. 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:39:34 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:57:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:11:55 -!- augur has joined. 19:16:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:19 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:24:44 actually now that I think about it, what's the difference between checking for something >= 0 and having all your registers assume a default value of zero... and checking for >= 1 while having your registers be set to 1. 19:28:11 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:28:19 @bot 19:28:23 :) 19:28:36 screen-- 19:28:50 @karma screen 19:28:57 screen has a karma of -1 19:29:17 b_jonas: I thought perhaps they should change to "unsigned long long", might be better, then. (But, then, won't be suitable if the compiler doesn't implement that.) 19:33:58 (Apparently, screen -X is not 100% reliable.) 19:40:13 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:41:24 -!- int-e has joined. 19:48:51 <\oren\> https://i.imgflip.com/1xyq25.jpg 20:04:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:08:53 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:09:54 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:10:18 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest30421. 20:10:53 -!- Guest30421 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 20:11:06 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 20:11:06 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:17:46 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:18:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:17:45 -!- augur has joined. 21:18:58 Now I added a "ff-uniq" program, to remove duplicate tiles from a vertical strip. 21:19:10 (Use ff-strip at first if it isn't already a vertical strip.) 21:20:15 -!- nycs has joined. 21:23:05 Do you like this? 21:23:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:35:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:51:22 -!- augur has joined. 22:02:58 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:43:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:03:45 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:09:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:12:27 <\oren\> @tell boily https://i.redd.it/pj7ssi2nwzsz.jpg 23:12:27 Consider it noted. 23:23:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:46:46 -!- augur has joined. 23:48:35 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 2017-10-21: 00:02:16 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:05:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:09:34 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:09:49 -!- augur has joined. 00:56:47 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:22:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:25:30 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:53:58 -!- moony has joined. 02:17:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:18:59 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 02:19:41 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest43044. 02:20:13 -!- Guest43044 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 02:20:14 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 02:20:14 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 02:53:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:55:58 -!- augur has joined. 02:57:49 `? hmph 02:58:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:18 LackEgo 02:59:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:09:58 -!- Cthulhux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:10:31 -!- Cthulhux has joined. 03:28:59 -!- imode has joined. 03:32:55 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:35:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:53:56 -!- trn has joined. 04:22:24 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:44:07 What can you think about this experimental compression algorithm for 16 colour pictures? http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?p=206353#p206353 I have implemented it; in that forum you can also see the picture they gave as an example, and my results with it. 04:45:14 zzo38: this is basically a huffman coding problem; the ideal run length encoding format would be based on the probability distribution of run lengths 04:45:39 (arithmetic coding would be the "ideal" in terms of saving size, but on a NES it would probably require too much ROM space to write a decoder for it) 04:47:46 Yes, I know that, although somehow psycopathicteen suggested this way, so that is what I implemented. Of course if it does base on probability distribution, then those Huffman tables will also need to be stored. 04:48:13 right 04:48:28 this encoding basically says that 1 and 2 are very likely (50% and 25% respectively) and longer runs much rarer 04:49:12 the run length encoding used by bzip2 is probably even denser for that distribution, it exploits the fact that you can't have two runs of the same character in a row 04:49:32 the way it works is that in order to write a run of one character, you just write it, in order to write a run of two characters, you write it twice 04:49:45 but for a run of three or more, you write the character three times followed by the repeat count 04:50:07 the encoding knows whether to expect a repeat count by seeing if it just saw three of the same character 04:50:11 The encoding specified there already can't have two runs of the same character in a row; perhaps read http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?p=206306#p206306 for some related context (the previous version) 04:51:53 "Each color would have a list of the most to least frequent adjacent color (excluding itself) with a hardcoded huffman tree." 04:52:33 So the format actually makes it impossible to represent two runs of the same character in a row. 04:53:44 ah right 04:58:04 The implementation I have made has type 0 as the end marker instead of type 4 (since it is simply a 2-bit number), always stores the first pixel uncompressed as 4-bits (it look like they may have forgotten to mention how to store the first pixel, I suppose), and has a 42 byte header (longer if the palette is included in the output). 04:58:43 (The header specifies the tile size and the five most common colours to come next after each of the sixteen colours.) 04:59:41 (Of course you can then strip out the header if you do not need it.) 05:11:25 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:14:06 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 05:31:41 so. NDF is equivalent to petri nets, in that it isn't TC without some kind of check for zero. 05:51:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:52:47 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 05:53:01 -!- puckipedia has joined. 05:56:23 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:18:33 -!- erkin has joined. 07:07:52 What's the best representation for quantum states for computation 07:08:02 Real and imaginary part or polar coordinates 07:30:00 How is NDF working? 07:30:06 What is NDF? 07:36:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:49:37 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:52:52 zzo38: NDF = nondeterministic fractran. 07:53:18 meaning instead of there being a well-defined rule order (rule 1 comes before rule 2, rule 2 before rule 3, etc.), you can execute any valid rule any time. 08:00:32 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:15:57 -!- augur has joined. 08:16:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:17:41 what about probabilistic Fractran (where each rule is equally likely to run), can you make that work with probability 1? 08:22:25 ais523: well, it's essentially still NDF. the only way you could make it work is if you had some method of enforcing ordering to the rules. 08:23:01 then it'd be turing complete, but from what I can see, it's not possible without a check to see if a given register is zero. petri nets have the same problem (and have mostly the same base, multiset rewriting) 08:23:20 this is why inhibitor arcs are a common extension to make them turing complete. 08:25:08 but I'm wondering if there's some dumb way to manipulate register checks. the only thing you're lacking is a check for zero, but if you can turn that into a check for one and shift all of your other checks up by one, you "technically" have the same functionality, only with the ability to determine whether a register is in a default state (i.e symbolically empty). 08:30:12 imode: in this case there is a zero test, but a probabilistic one 08:30:31 you can have a rule that's unlikely to run if a given value is nonzero because there'd be many more alternatives 08:30:43 hm. 08:30:56 that's an interesting entry point. 08:31:44 you might be able to make that work, but I like going with "asshole fractran", where if you can choose the rule that moves you into the next symbolic state, you run with it. :P 08:32:58 probabilistic fractran is quite close to real-life systems like biochemistry, so it'd be nice if it were TC 08:33:36 what's been confusing me is that, somehow, P systems are turing complete. 08:34:04 while NDF is apparently not, but P systems seem to be equivalent to NDF. 08:34:29 membrane dissolution corresponds to flag changes and thus state changes. 08:35:32 though to be honest I can't tell whether P systems emphasize maximal rule application (i.e all possible rules are applied at once before you update the state) or some other weird application method. 09:18:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:47:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 09:51:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 10:38:29 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 10:51:05 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: ZNC Sucks >_>). 12:06:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:12:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:35:12 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:37:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 12:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:38:00 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:09:40 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:20:29 -!- boily has joined. 13:37:30 `5 w 13:37:35 @massages-loud 13:37:35 \oren\ said 14h 25m 8s ago: https://i.redd.it/pj7ssi2nwzsz.jpg 13:38:23 \oren\: ヘ＼＼オレン＼！www 13:39:21 * boily lightly, persistently, precisely mapoles fizzie. fizziello. please HackEgo PLZKTHXHTH 13:47:21 Huhwha. 13:48:05 ^style 13:48:05 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:48:08 It's done the "socat 100% CPU use" thing *again*. 13:48:29 I will poke it with a stick. 13:48:32 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:48:35 fizzie: that bug is fixed in the repo! 13:48:42 int-e: Was it? 13:49:18 but glad I'm not the only one who was bitten by this 13:50:52 hmm, let me try to reconstruct 13:51:35 "2017-01-25: Socat version 1.7.3.2 fixes uninterruptable hang / CPU loop on host resolution problems" 13:53:28 fizzie: http://repo.or.cz/socat.git/commit/6b596b8852d8fad2675894e3ceb18a04801eaf23 13:53:57 (it's still a bit worrying that there would be a SIGSEGV in the first place) 13:55:05 And, apparently, lambdabot is still using 1.7.3.1 hmm. I should do something about that. 13:55:31 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:56:53 Hmm. "socat version 1.7.2.4+sigfix" 13:57:19 ...except this is probably the socat in the HackEgo chroot... 13:57:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:57:50 Which seems to be the same. 13:58:33 `thanks fizzie 13:58:39 Thanks, fizzie. Thizzie. 13:59:41 so what does the +sigfix mean... 14:00:47 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:02:01 (It does sound like it could be the right thing, but I bet socat does more than one thing with signals.) 14:03:04 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:05 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:06:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CAPABLE CHICKEN). 14:06:10 @bot 14:06:17 :) 14:06:25 -!- int-e has left ("SALAD CHICKEN"). 14:06:25 -!- int-e has joined. 14:06:43 -!- atslash has joined. 14:34:17 int-e: Not sure, the deb version number doesn't mention the "sigfix", so I can't tell from the changelog. Though there is an entry saying "Backport upstream fix to prevent DoS with fork, fixes CVE-2015-1379 (closes: #776234)", and *that* bug says "socats signal handler implementations are not asnyc-signal-safe", so it's probably that. 14:35:02 I should just upgrade that box from jessie to stretch. 14:39:50 fizzie: that description sounds like http://repo.or.cz/socat.git/commit/2af0495cc6534a08d0783a1613d6c9a488ab97e6 ... and it looks like that patch is what introduced the infinite loop via the SIGSEGV handler. (If the SIGSEGV handler returns without disabling itself, and without doing any dirty platform-specific fixups, then it will immediately trigger again.) 14:41:06 Anyway, stretch ships 1.7.3.1, which is still affected. I installed the .deb from sid on stretch... 14:43:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:02:07 fizzie: err, never mind. the stretch version is fine; it includes a patch for the problem. 15:02:27 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:17:54 -!- ATMunn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:17:58 -!- ATMunn_ has joined. 15:18:21 -!- ATMunn_ has changed nick to ATMunn. 15:31:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:33:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:11:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:48:17 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:48:40 -!- atslash has joined. 16:56:03 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:57:46 -!- imode has joined. 17:08:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:26:37 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:30:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:33:09 hellais523 17:36:37 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:41:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:51:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:03:20 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:04:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:04 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:20:09 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 18:20:09 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:25:08 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:35:42 -!- erkin has joined. 18:43:41 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:51:41 -!- moony has changed nick to nvm. 18:58:49 * ais523 has an idea for an esolang 19:00:11 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53233&oldid=53222 * Ais523 * (+18) /* C */ +[[Countercall]] 19:09:07 -!- [io] has joined. 19:09:31 -!- [io] has quit (Changing host). 19:09:31 -!- [io] has joined. 19:09:31 -!- [io] has changed nick to Guest64997. 19:10:40 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:10:41 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:10:53 -!- Guest64997 has changed nick to iovoid. 19:11:06 [wiki] [[Countercall]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53234 * Ais523 * (+2738) new language! 19:11:42 [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53235&oldid=52144 * Ais523 * (+17) +[[Countercall]] 19:11:56 it's nice to have an esolang idea and make it into a finished esolang-documentation in under 20 minutes 19:12:57 What's a good way to implement quantum states on a simulation 19:13:18 It's a bit hard due to the possible entangling 19:14:11 I'm thinking maybe every qubit is a list of states, and every of those states has a list of pointers to other states 19:15:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:16:03 -!- atslash has joined. 19:16:17 So that [|0> x |1> + |1> x |0>] would be something like two qubits defined as [ [0, ptr], [1, ptr] ] and [ [1, ptr], [0, ptr] ] 19:16:32 And each pointer points to the appropriate state it is entangled to 19:17:10 One way is to use a full state vector, but then it becomes larger; it is 2 to the power of however many bits. 19:17:32 Full state vector sounds unwieldy to use, especially if I want to implement registers 19:17:57 -!- ^io has joined. 19:18:02 -!- ^io has quit (Changing host). 19:18:02 -!- ^io has joined. 19:18:06 Yes, I think it is unwieldy, but I don't know how well any other way will work, either. 19:18:27 Plus I'm guessing that most states will be either not entangled at all or just entangled to one other state 19:18:39 -!- iovoid has quit (Killed (wolfe.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 19:18:39 -!- ^io has changed nick to iovoid. 19:18:50 I dunno, do you think the idea I proposed would work? 19:19:27 Well i guess the pointer should be a list of pointers or something a bit more complex, in case there's three or more states involved 19:20:59 Hmm 19:30:57 Hm, wait 19:31:01 I guess it should be more 19:31:21 [ [0, 1], ptr ] and [ [1, 0], ptr ] 19:31:22 Slereah: [ (0 , 1 ] , ptr ] and [ [ 1 , 0 ] , ptr ]) 19:31:27 Too slow! 19:31:35 heheh 19:32:07 Or more generally [ state, [ptr1, ptr2, ...] ] 19:32:26 ais523: so adding a constant or multiplying a positive counter by a constant seems straightforward at least 19:32:45 FireFly: yes 19:33:16 hmm, maybe a multiply+divmod construction is the way to go? implementing divmod in this seems like a nightmare though 19:33:28 same for running a procedure C+constant or C-constant iterations 19:33:46 Wait 19:33:54 yeah, it does, I was trying to think of a way to do it but it doesn't seem particularly easy 19:33:56 I think the general one would be like.... 19:34:19 [ [state1, state2, ...], [ptr1, ptr2, ...] ] 19:34:20 Slereah: |spelling error 19:34:20 Slereah: | [state1, state2, ...], [ptr1, ptr2, ...] ] 19:34:20 Slereah: | ^ 19:34:29 hush, j-bot 19:34:57 Where there's an implicit tensor product on every state 19:35:09 and the states are summed with the states of the pointer list 19:36:06 I think that could work 19:36:36 Hm wait 19:36:39 that's no good 19:36:59 It needs to be the other way around 19:37:11 The various possible states in the array for a single particles 19:37:25 otherwise I can't keep track of the memory 19:39:39 Ah, I guess I need more information 19:40:12 [ [state1, state2, ...], [ [ptr11, ptr12, ...], [ptr21, ptr22, ...], ... ] ] 19:40:13 Slereah: |spelling error 19:40:13 Slereah: | [state1, state2, ...], [ [ptr11, ptr12, ...], [ptr21, ptr22, ...], ... ] ] 19:40:13 Slereah: | ^ 19:40:46 So that this structure corresponds to the state [ state1 x ptr11 x ptr12 x ... + state2 x ptr21 x ptr22 x ... + ... ] 19:40:58 I think that should work 19:42:21 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:45:58 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:53:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:00:18 -!- fungot has joined. 20:08:19 and I think that works for every type of one-particle Hilbert space 20:31:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:32:03 [wiki] [[Feather]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53236&oldid=40334 * Ais523 * (+387) given that I spent a decent chunk of time and sanity discussing Feather a while ago, it's only fair to let everyone else know where they can find it 20:32:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:36:43 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest1166. 20:36:53 -!- Guest1166 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:40:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:43:22 [wiki] [[Countercall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53237&oldid=53234 * Ais523 * (+91) /* Syntax */ mention the comment syntax; this was always planned, I just forgot to write it down 20:44:24 oh, new stuff on feather eh 20:45:35 no, just a link to old stuff 20:45:46 ah 20:45:53 but letting people know where they can find information on Feather seems like a useful addition to our article on it 20:46:28 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 20:49:28 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:57:34 Do you know about "third man argument"? I read the Wikipedia article about it, and it look to me, Self-Predication is wrong. Being F is the wrong kind of property to say that the form of F-ness is or is not F is a statement that is meaningful. 20:58:33 ais523: I had actually missed that conversation I think 20:58:44 (I am also not so sure of One/Many; they aren't necessarily contrary, because it can depend how do you do the dividing.) 21:01:05 I watched a movie called The Third Man once. 21:01:32 Is there any relation to third man argument? 21:46:15 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:03:24 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 22:05:14 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:09:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:12:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:22:51 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:25:35 -!- sleffy has joined. 23:05:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:13:56 -!- nvm has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:29 -!- nvm has joined. 23:21:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:23:48 -!- boily has joined. 23:25:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:45:15 Is there a X resource manager implementation in Haskell? I have implemented X resource manager in JavaScript. One idea for implementing it in Haskell might be that the database has type (XRM x y), which has resources of type ([(Binding,x)],y) where the first half of the pair is the key and the second part is the value. (So, you can't have duplicate keys.) (The type (XRM String String) will be the usual way, although this doesn't allow for XrmUnique 23:48:25 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 2017-10-22: 00:15:04 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53238&oldid=53220 * HereToAnnoy * (+85) Spec consistency 00:48:31 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:50:28 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:57:19 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:02:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:16:31 -!- augur has joined. 01:21:15 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:16:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOLVED CHICKEN). 02:59:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:11:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:15:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 04:26:48 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:08:28 What is the following theorem called: Any category that has more than one object has N+1 or more monads if N is the number of final objects that that category has. 05:14:00 Why would that have a name? 05:14:45 Aren't the theorems supposed to have a name? 05:18:24 you could write a paper 05:18:29 and then it could be called Theorem 3.4 05:21:37 O, yes, I suppose that is possible. But, such number is local to that document, so the global name will be named by prefixing the document number too, then, I suppose. 05:21:53 But, I didn't write a paper, so none of that is applicable. 05:22:19 it's definitely been done 05:22:25 "see Theorem 8.4 in [3]" 05:22:42 Is it a theorem or a lemma? 05:41:42 it's probably a lemma. 05:42:59 or a series of lemmata for each value of N 05:43:43 nah. not distinct enough to list separately 05:53:35 Now I tried making the implementation of X resource manager in Haskell. I do not have Haskell on this computer, and also have not made any programming in Haskell for some time, so, I don't know if it is correct, or even if it will compile, or if it is good. However, it is: http://sprunge.us/hEbZ 06:09:24 I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm using fractran as a scripting language for a game. 06:12:50 it involves moving resources around and wiring up a really stupid simple register machine to my game objects is actually a terribly simple way of managing resources and externally managed flags. 06:20:09 What game is that? Although, I suppose yes it can have a use. 06:22:45 got a little weird mashup between pokemon, tamagotchi and zelda 1 going right now. 06:23:02 and it features little creatures that you control that have a few things. 06:23:53 an element/type, a resource meter, and a single ability. their ability is context sensitive to the area they're in (they move and live on a tile-based grid). 06:24:46 the gimmick is that you can take care of them and control them. you take care of them by raising them in your "zoo" and you can take a few of them out into a wider world to do different things like scavenge for resources. 06:25:59 each critter can only contain one type of resource, and that corresponds to the element they are. so water elementals can store water. earth can store earth. plants can store plants/seeds. 06:26:25 exposing the internal state of them + whatever tiles they're near via registers seems like a good idea. 06:26:29 that way you can write rules like.. 06:27:24 I suppose I understand how you mean now, although I don't know what registers they are. 06:27:42 Direction: North, Background: Water, BackgroundState: 25, ResourceLevel: 5 -> Background: Ice, BackgroundState: 0 06:27:42 -!- zzo38 has left. 06:27:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:28:31 that rule reads "if you're facing north, and the tile north of you has a type of water, and the state of that tile is 25 (think water level), and your internal resource level is 5, turn it to ice and set its background state to 0." 06:28:37 though really it'd be... 06:28:51 Type: Water, Direction: North, Background: Water, BackgroundState: 25, ResourceLevel: 5 -> Background: Ice, BackgroundState: 0 06:28:59 or Type: Ice or what have you. 06:29:53 actually ice would be better. Type1: Cold, Type2: Water -> Result: Ice. all of the symbolic names like water, north, cold, ice, etc. would be mapped to actual numbers. 06:31:59 That isn't quite Fractran, although I can see how such a thing could be done in Fractran, if you add a second rule to restore the state, I suppose (unless you are doing it differently) 06:32:55 fractran simulates a register machine underneath it. 3/2 is really r1(1) -> r2(1). 06:33:57 Yes, I know that, although if it isn't in lowest terms then it won't work and you will need to add another "trigger" onto it, so that it will work. 06:34:45 so you could encode that rule via mapping each of the registers like Type, Direction, Background, BackgroundState, ResourceLevel, etc. onto a prime number. when your critter uses his ability, the engine runs through the rule list after setting the registers for things like Type, Direction, etc. 06:37:40 Yes, although still it look it won't work in Fractran unless you then add a "guard", or if Direction:North is given its own prime number, or whatever. 06:37:53 well, Direction is a register, North is a value. 06:38:38 so if Direction is register 1, and North is, say, value 1, then the encoding for the state of that register is 2^1. 06:39:07 Yes, I know that. 06:41:30 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:55:04 -!- Cale has joined. 07:10:07 Looking from the esolang wiki Fractran article, I found the Stack Overflow code golf. They have the following JavaScript implementation: function(n,p,q,i,c){i=0;while(q=p[i],c=n*q[0],(c%q[1]?++i:(n=c/q[1],i=0)) This is my shorter version: (n,p,c)=>{while(p.some(([x,y])=>(c=n*x)%y?0:n=c/y));return n} 07:10:36 Can you shorten it any more? 07:11:52 (The function is given two arguments: The first is the input number, and the second is the list of fractions, where each fraction is a list with the numerator and denominator.) 07:16:34 nope, I'd say that's pretty well reduced. 07:17:46 Maybe they used an older version of JavaScript which does not have the stuff that I have used. 07:18:51 more than likely. ES5 and ES6 and all that. 07:19:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:19:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:24:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:25:08 -!- augur has joined. 07:29:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:37:57 I have shortened it more: (n,p)=>{while(p.some(([x,y])=>n*x%y?0:n=n*x/y));return n} 07:38:08 zzo38: ah, I see what you mean. if North is 3, South is 1, and I'm checking for South, the rule would match if I'm facing North. 07:38:11 (Writing n*=x/y doesn't work, due to rounding errors.) 07:39:32 I'm assuming that I could modify that trivially to include a guard that says "only this EXACT quantity." 07:39:43 that's not hard. 07:39:46 Yes, that is what I mentioned. 07:40:10 so yeah, not quite fractran but damn close. you could emulate that behavior by setting some more flag registers but I'd rather just add to the syntax. :P 07:41:33 Yes, that is OK. 07:48:39 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 07:51:28 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:51:28 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:51:59 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 07:56:11 [wiki] [[Talk:Fractran]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53239&oldid=21317 * Zzo38 * (+511) 08:15:15 [wiki] [[Talk:Fractran]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53240&oldid=53239 * Zzo38 * (-3) 08:17:21 Even more shortened now: (n,p,f=_=>p.some(([x,y])=>n*x%y?0:n=n*x/y)?f():n)=>f() 08:45:48 But it doesn't have big integer arithmetic. 08:45:54 So presumably it only works for toy programs. 08:56:39 .oO(Non-toy FRACTRAN programs...) 09:06:10 Yes, that much is correct. 09:16:45 (Although, the original version also had the same problem.) 09:17:01 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 09:48:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:35:21 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53241&oldid=53210 * Rdebath * (+1882) 11:36:21 [wiki] [[Feather]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53242&oldid=53236 * Rdebath * (-7) Remove debris from tag 11:40:11 -!- erkin has joined. 11:55:41 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53243&oldid=53241 * Rdebath * (+3) Mmmm green screen 12:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 12:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:07:45 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:08:12 -!- atslash has joined. 12:23:29 [wiki] [[BrainCube]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53244&oldid=53123 * Rdebath * (-39) Formatting 12:25:47 -!- augur has joined. 12:29:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:31:13 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:32:20 [wiki] [[Super Stack!/superstack.ml]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53245&oldid=34738 * Rdebath * (-23) Formatting 12:47:10 I'm programming the quantom computer on C++ 12:47:18 It has been a while since I've dealt with pointers 12:55:27 I don't even remember how to instantiate an array in C++ 12:55:36 new State[n] isn't the way! 12:56:53 Does C++ still use malloc, I forget 13:05:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:06:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:30:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:53:33 -!- boily has joined. 13:53:57 why c++? 13:57:57 because male models. 13:57:59 Slereah: C++ has an abstraction called allocators; the standard one may (and should, really) be using malloc 14:00:18 (should, because I think that effort on optimizing variable-sized allocation should be spent on improving malloc.) Shiny: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=glibc-malloc-thread-cache 14:02:11 should, also, do prevent silly things like https://www.zerotier.com/blog/2017-05-05-theleak.shtml 14:02:18 s/do/to/ 14:13:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:17:14 Why not C++* 14:17:38 I'm mostly using it because I want to be able to do arithmetics on quantum states so I need to overload arithmetics and logical operators 14:18:06 Rather than do some awkward Add(State1, State2 14:55:48 c++ is one of the worst languages i know 14:59:04 it is 14:59:11 But I coded it lots 14:59:16 so it is mostly fine 15:01:24 @karma c 15:01:24 c has a karma of 2 15:01:28 c-- 15:01:30 c-- 15:01:49 @karma c/c 15:01:49 c/c has a karma of 1892 15:02:17 How is Karma rated 15:03:05 @karma c 15:03:05 c has a karma of 2 15:03:25 @karma- c 15:03:25 c's karma lowered to 1. 15:03:28 @karma- c 15:03:28 c's karma lowered to 0. 15:03:29 :P 15:03:35 Oh no 15:03:37 You monster 15:03:38 C++ 15:03:41 @karma C 15:03:41 C has a karma of 0 15:03:43 @karma+ c 15:03:43 c's karma raised to 1. 15:03:46 (I like C) 15:07:39 there was a time when C++ lowered the speaker's karma, but I think that hack is gone. 15:08:25 @karma Slereah 15:08:25 You have a karma of 1 15:08:27 Phew 15:08:57 @karma int-e 15:08:57 int-e has a karma of 11 15:09:15 @karma myname 15:09:15 myname has a karma of 1 15:09:55 @karma blah 15:09:55 blah has a karma of 31337 15:10:07 and then there are stupid people who have nothing better to do than this 15:10:23 Or are they geniuses 15:10:38 doubtful 15:11:26 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:12:36 @karma boily 15:12:36 You have a karma of 108 15:12:48 ah! I'm still at 108 ^^ 15:13:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DICTIONARY CHICKEN). 15:49:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:02:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:02:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:07:18 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:15:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:25:07 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:41:56 -!- augur has joined. 16:48:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:57:19 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AAAAAAAA * New user account 17:04:55 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:08:24 AAAAAAAARGH! 17:09:13 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53246&oldid=53231 * AAAAAAAA * (+212) 17:18:42 [wiki] [[Popular problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53247&oldid=41270 * AAAAAAAA * (+199) 17:33:47 -!- iovoid has joined. 17:33:47 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 17:33:47 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:25:07 -!- nitin59 has joined. 18:25:50 -!- nitin59 has quit. 18:26:06 -!- nitin59 has joined. 18:37:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:38:51 anyone tried this ... esolang lovers might like this... -> https://www.nevercompletedgame.com/ 18:39:22 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:42:24 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:45:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:47:04 i don't 19:11:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:13:22 way too US centric anyway 19:13:48 that's true... 19:21:54 the first maybe 20 were kind of nice, but then it got more and more obscure. I cheated my way to 32 but what's the point. 19:22:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:23:15 And even before that, I used google. I didn't recognize 4.6692, for example. I recognized the taxicab number but that wasn't an acceptable answer. 19:26:42 -!- imode has joined. 19:27:18 The hell is question 15 19:27:31 The sequences are missing 4, 2 and 8 19:27:38 But beyond that 19:27:40 Not a clue 19:27:56 Slereah: that's your answer right there. 19:28:05 What is 19:28:12 428 19:28:19 Oh, that's what they expect? 19:28:26 I thought I was to find the next in the sequence 19:30:12 i don't like puzzles that are hard because you don't get told what to do 19:30:29 yeah it's a bit shit 19:30:38 A lot of those questions have plenty of possible answers 19:31:11 also, zachtronics new game is awesome 19:31:55 One of them is just 1729 = 1^3 + 12^3 = 9^3 + 10^3 19:32:09 The answer is neither taxicab number or Hardy–Ramanujan number 19:32:36 or variations on those 19:34:01 yes the game is not straight forward... it has multiple answers.. even website has one comment about the game... :P 19:34:22 yeah it is not very fun 19:34:37 Like old adventure games where you had to read the mind of the developpers to guess solutions 19:35:09 Is the empty set a Grothendieck universe 19:35:37 Is using that universe equivalent to just saying small sets don't exist 19:36:05 It is vacuously true, yes 19:36:38 And the next smallest universe is the one that I am used to using I think, containing the natural numbers 19:37:01 Or... no 19:37:01 It is just N yeah 19:37:22 Is {{}} a universe? 19:37:32 I like natural numbers 19:37:45 {{}} doesn't contain the power set of {} 19:37:49 these games are no fun if playing alone... if people come and play then it might be some fun.. like the people on /sci/ blog they played together and finished it... 19:38:02 Slereah, you're right 19:38:12 I'm going to decree that game as no fun in the first place 19:38:16 They're bad puzzles 19:38:38 just an FYI the game has almost all answers somewhere on their blog... so don't waste too much time on these puzzles... 19:51:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:05:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:06:52 -!- nitin59 has quit. 20:15:34 myname: opus magnum? 20:15:53 zeah 20:22:36 Slereah: yeah narrowing down the right idea to the expected answer is tiresome 20:24:21 myname: hmm, is it like the magnum opus challenge on a hexgrid? 20:28:23 it's like those old timey text adventure game 20:28:31 Where you have to guess the correct verb 20:38:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:37:37 -!- augur has joined. 21:41:02 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:41:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:41:43 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:56:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:30:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:35:22 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 22:36:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:51:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:04:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:19:52 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:20:30 -!- Cale has joined. 23:21:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:57:08 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 2017-10-23: 00:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 00:00:20 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:06:38 -!- LKoen has joined. 00:10:48 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:14:13 -!- boily has joined. 00:15:09 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:15:25 -!- fungot has joined. 00:23:05 fungellot. 00:23:12 quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA. 00:27:06 hello 00:27:45 -!- aloril has joined. 00:29:04 moo 00:29:25 moo? 00:29:42 mooooooooo 00:30:48 * nvm continues running apgsearch 00:31:04 mooooo 00:52:13 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:00 moooooooooo 01:25:19 `unidecode 𝓒𝓗𝓞𝓜𝓢𝓚𝓨𝓓𝓞𝓩 01:25:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:25:23 ​[U+1D4D2 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL C] [U+1D4D7 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL H] [U+1D4DE MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL O] [U+1D4DC MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL M] [U+1D4E2 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL S] [U+1D4DA MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL K] [U+1D4E8 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL Y] [U+1D4D3 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIP 01:25:42 ok 01:41:35 -!- nvm has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:27:14 -!- moony has joined. 02:46:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FISH CHICKEN). 03:03:23 Do you like Mitrofanov's "Rustaveli-study"? 8/k7/P2b2P1/KP1Pn2P/4R3/8/6np/8 # 03:06:01 <\oren\> someone should write the book "Celsius 233" 03:07:29 What is that book about? 03:13:17 \oren\, ok, here it is: "this is a book." 03:13:23 it tells its own story :D 03:14:16 O, OK. 03:59:27 http://optipng.sourceforge.net/pngtech/better-filtering.html "For images of color type 3 (indexed color), filter type 0 (None) is usually the most effective." There are cases where this is not true; this is one example: http://zzo38computer.org/img_1C/palette.png (and, to me at least, it seems easily enough to see how) 04:00:41 Also, in all three cases of the example pictures, I have achieved better compression with my "ffpng" program than the numbers given there. 04:03:32 frymire.png: "w32768 n258 f0" gives IDAT size 250245. serrano.png: "w32768 n258 f0" gives IDAT size 106434. lena.png: "n258 m6 w2 e0,2" gives IDAT size 473108. 04:08:29 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:19:28 One more thing to consider can be: If filtering is in use (or even if it isn't in use, because then the filter types are all zero, and because the way the code length table is recorded), to consider the order of the colours in the palette when encoding in indexed colour mode. 04:43:49 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/bQd7Z6Z 04:53:03 What is that picture from? 04:53:23 (Also, why do they split the picture into several IDAT blocks?) 05:00:32 (Encoding settings "n258 w512 e-1,512,258 m6" reduce the picture from 196372 bytes to 88875 bytes.) 05:01:33 And what is the context of what they are saying? 05:15:48 <\oren\> zzo38: his daughter is in love with a delinquent who looks really scary 05:18:14 OK 05:50:32 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:56:18 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:02:31 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:23:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:01:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:05:05 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:05:10 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:05:27 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 07:05:50 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest25361. 07:12:06 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 07:21:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:26:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:33:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:25 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:02:25 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:37:15 -!- boily has joined. 11:43:01 `5 w 11:43:10 1/2:diagram//A diagram is just a functor. \ frozen water//Frozen water is just ice. \ oya yakuman//We don't know what an oya yakuman is, but based on boily's reaction, it must be quite painful. \ bézout's theorem//Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in 11:43:11 `n 11:43:11 2/2:the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of the polynomials. \ unlambda//``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 11:58:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:22:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GEOGRAPHIC CHICKEN). 12:27:00 -!- MrBusiness3 has changed nick to MrBusiness. 13:29:55 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 13:41:43 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:10:52 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:14:45 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:29:22 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:35:10 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:39:59 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 14:50:10 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:52:51 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 16:32:27 -!- moony has joined. 16:35:08 -!- augur has joined. 16:39:09 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:39:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:57:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:19:07 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:39:30 -!- Cale has joined. 18:07:05 Maybe, you don't know what is oya yakuman, but I do know. 18:41:51 -!- erkin has joined. 18:50:48 -!- imode has joined. 18:56:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:00:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:24:30 -!- Cthulhux has quit (Changing host). 19:24:30 -!- Cthulhux has joined. 19:29:23 Due to this article http://optipng.sourceforge.net/pngtech/too_far.html I have managed to achieve even better compression; now I have shortened the IDAT chunk of frymire.png to 249821 bytes. 19:32:15 you could try to make a png that displays its own hexdump 19:32:54 (I'm not 100% sure that this is even possible, but the gzip quine means that there's hope) 19:45:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:46:55 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:48:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:50:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:58:02 Yes, that is a idea, although I don't know how to do it. I have once found a PNG that claimed to be a QR code encoding of itself, although from what I can tell the data that it decodes into appears to be scrambled (but vaguely looks like a PNG file). 20:13:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 20:23:30 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:59:37 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:08:02 -!- Guest25361 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 21:08:05 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 21:08:05 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:20:05 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:27:55 -!- augur has joined. 21:34:05 How to make vim to automatically set syntax for any new buffer except for a help buffer? 21:51:33 auto-commands, :au 21:58:26 note that help files set their filetype using a modeline (ft=help, at the bottom) 21:59:58 * deltab reads about tfelthgiron 22:20:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:25:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:26:18 -!- imode has joined. 22:32:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:34:09 <\oren\> do u know what C++11 means 22:34:14 <\oren\> it means std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move 22:40:14 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:48:15 -!- boily has joined. 22:52:21 -!- brandonson has joined. 22:52:28 `relcome brandonson 22:52:31 ​brandonson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 22:59:50 <\oren\> boily: do u know how to use std::unique_ptr? 23:04:15 he\\oren\! 23:04:31 * boily hides under the first object he gets in his hands. 23:04:39 * boily damns the size of his coffee mug 23:05:01 what's a unique_ptr? 23:06:52 It's std::auto_ptr done right. 23:07:12 <\oren\> ok, it seems no matter what i do, unique_ptr wants to create type errors in template specializations 23:07:26 \oren\: what are you doing? 23:08:01 <\oren\> trying to initialize a unique_ptr member of a class B 23:08:18 <\oren\> my constructor looks like this 23:08:50 <\oren\> B(unique_ptr a) : a_(std::move(a)) {} 23:09:19 <\oren\> usr/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/4.4.7/../../../../include/c++/4.4.7/bits/move.h:57:14: error: rvalue reference to type 'unique_ptr<[2 * ...]>' cannot bind to lvalue of type 'unique_ptr<[2 * ...]>' 23:09:19 \oren\: unique_ptr's constructors take pointers 23:10:20 oh wait 23:10:32 I misread, thought you were passing in an A 23:11:29 I have no idea then 23:11:38 As far as your line goes, it looks just fine (modulo oddly using std:: for move, but not for unique_ptr), so we must be missing some context here. 23:12:39 yeah 23:15:22 <\oren\> explode_cpp/explode.cpp:174:75: note: in instantiation of function template specialization 'std::move > &>' requested here 23:16:09 <\oren\> see this is why I hate C++ and avaid all its special features like the plague 23:16:23 <\oren\> because the errors are fucking nonsensical 23:16:47 I've been fiddling with C++17 recently, actually, and found it pretty pleasant going. Even if the errors are terrible. 23:17:42 If you want help you probably need a compilable example, though. 23:20:27 I mean, this works just fine: https://ideone.com/ZdvaE4 23:22:40 <\oren\> #include 23:22:40 <\oren\> #include 23:22:40 <\oren\> struct B { 23:22:41 <\oren\> }; 23:22:41 <\oren\> struct A : public B { double d; std::unique_ptr b; A(double d, std::unique_ptr b) : d(d), b(std::move(b)) {} 23:22:44 <\oren\> }; 23:23:09 <\oren\> this gives the same error 23:25:10 Not here it doesn't: https://ideone.com/lDkkv3 23:25:23 I don't know how you're calling that constructor. 23:25:52 <\oren\> clang -std=C++11 23:26:13 <\oren\> fuck, c++ 14? 23:26:21 <\oren\> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 23:26:54 It should be the same with C++11. 23:27:21 Not getting any errors in http://sprunge.us/GReZ 23:27:41 (5.0 is the only version of clang I've got installed.) 23:28:23 <\oren\> god fucking damn it why does gerg want me to use this shit 23:29:18 <\oren\> clang version 3.4.2 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot2-final) 23:29:18 <\oren\> Target: x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu 23:31:30 <\oren\> why can't I just use normal pointers 23:31:48 <\oren\> i know how to use them. I know how to fucking debug them 23:33:07 gerg? 23:34:14 <\oren\> guy's name is greg but I am mad at him 23:36:41 <\oren\> oh, i see 23:36:54 <\oren\> gerg wants me to use /home/gerg/bin/gcc 23:37:01 <\oren\> gah 23:51:03 gahg. 23:56:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GUILTY CHICKEN). 2017-10-24: 00:08:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:20:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:32:49 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:35:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 00:57:21 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: QUIT!!! OH NO!!). 00:59:26 -!- Guest15079 has joined. 00:59:54 -!- Guest15079 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 01:00:00 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 01:00:00 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 01:01:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 01:03:38 -!- moony_ has joined. 01:04:23 -!- moony has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:05:26 -!- moony_ has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 01:05:38 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Changing host). 01:05:38 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:05:41 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to moony. 01:06:45 -!- lucas99897868 has joined. 01:07:38 f 01:09:13 -!- lucas99897868 has changed nick to lucas998978681. 01:10:02 -!- lucas998978681 has changed nick to gustavo. 01:10:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:10:31 -!- gustavo has changed nick to Guest84182. 01:11:44 -!- Guest84182 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:19:29 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:22:27 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:06:39 -!- imode has joined. 02:22:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:23:36 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:27:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:29:07 Will any DEFLATE implementation can implement "two-pass LZ77"? You would first do LZ77 normally, and then generate the Huffman tree, and then redo the LZ77 step but using the existing Huffman tree to determine which backreferences to make, and then do the rest of the compression normally (with a new Huffman tree). 02:30:47 how would you decompress that? 02:31:11 Usint any normal decompressor; the DEFLATE format isn't altered. 02:31:48 but how do you build the huffman tree? 02:32:09 In the ordinary way. 02:32:23 I must misunderstand then 02:32:40 (The first Huffman tree would not be saved; it is used only temporarily.) 02:33:52 Does that resolve your question, or is it something else that is unclear? 02:34:10 I will have to consider it later 02:36:49 My implementation of "Psycopathicteen Tile Compressor" does use multiple passes in a somewhat similar way to this in order to achieve better compression (but it doesn't use LZ77; it also uses a fixed Huffman table, but the mapping of Huffman codes to characters is not fixed and is defined in the header). 02:41:02 zzo38: *Psychopathicteen 02:45:36 oerjan: No, it is spelled "psycopathicteen" (I don't know why, but it is) 03:07:03 -!- xkapastel has joined. 03:23:38 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:43:29 The block size in older versions of my PNG encoder (which uses a modified version of LodePNG) has specification of block size in bytes, but now I changed it so that it is also possible to specify the block size is scanlines as well if you want to (you can still specify in bytes too if you want to do). 03:45:23 -!- tromp has joined. 03:50:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:09:00 I'm thinking about mereology... and if there could be mereological programming... 04:12:19 that's merely logical 04:13:41 tdh 04:22:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:32:54 -!- klaha has joined. 04:39:59 -!- tromp has joined. 04:44:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:50:11 -!- lain____ has joined. 04:50:53 [wiki] [[DGOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53248 * Qpliu * (+7895) Created page with "DGOL (Directed Graph Oriented Language) is an imperative programming language in which all values are pointers to nodes within directed graphs. ==Lexical Structure== Linear w..." 04:51:04 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53249&oldid=53233 * Qpliu * (+11) /* D */ 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:13:54 -!- lain____ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:14:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:14:58 Because PNG uses DEFLATE which uses both LZ77 and Huffman, this makes it more difficult to properly optimize filter selection. With Huffman only, the filters could easily be corrected after the initial guess if there is a shorter way, but with LZ77 then it is possible some later scanlines may depend on this one, and changing the filter selection will mess it up. 05:16:26 I think the better way would be for the filter selection and DEFLATE to not be two separate pieces, but instead to be one piece that does both, in order to improve compression. 05:30:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:47:21 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:54:53 LodePNG has a "Shannon entropy" filter strategy. I tried implementing a variant which takes into account the previous scanline as well as the current one, and it does seem to work better, at least with one picture (the PNG logo picture). 05:59:30 (It doesn't work better on all pictures though, but for some pictures it does work better.) 06:00:15 -!- klaha has left ("Leaving"). 06:18:15 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:28:21 -!- tromp has joined. 06:32:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:43:39 I made this program to list the chunks in a PNG file: http://sprunge.us/VONI Some PNG files have the picture split in many IDAT chunks. If you want the total of all IDAT chunks, you might use a command such as: pnglist | awk '/IDAT/{x+=$2}END{print x}' 06:43:43 Do you like this? 06:55:53 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:54 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:09:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:42:52 -!- augur has joined. 08:16:24 -!- tromp has joined. 08:20:53 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:25:53 -!- tromp has joined. 08:26:20 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 08:43:02 [wiki] [[Newbiefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53250&oldid=46200 * Rdebath * (+468) Add an example program. 08:56:35 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:59:41 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:06:49 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 09:27:59 -!- lmrwcvmial has joined. 09:27:59 -!- lmrwcvmial has left. 09:34:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:55:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:57:46 hey, it wasn't supposed to be raining today :( 09:58:45 * oerjan dislikes when weather forecasters cannot predict the weather right now 10:13:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 11:05:14 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 11:35:55 -!- boily has joined. 11:48:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:25:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CAPTIVE CHICKEN). 12:48:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:46:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:06:34 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:36:39 oh no 15:37:00 Oh yes! 15:37:07 What's up, b_jonas 15:42:59 I'm trying to understand the NaN rules for floating point arithmetic instructions. If I understand correctly, x87, SSE2 and MMIX use three different rules: 15:44:07 when the input are two NaNs, 387 instructions write the NaN with the bigger significand (sign is complicated), SSE writes the FIRST input, and MMIX writes the SECOND input, 15:44:29 where in both cases the second input means the one that's negated in a subtraction or the divisor for a division. 15:44:34 Great. 15:45:01 Ugh, sounds painful 15:46:09 but this "first source" and "second source" is so complicated that I might have just swapped them somewhere 15:57:28 wtf. who invented the SSE floating point min and max operations? isn't it enough that the add and multiply aren't commutative, do we need a non-commutative max and min too? 15:58:56 I seem to remember that a design goal for MIX was to not be that similar to any other architecture but be sort of similar to all the current ones, does that also apply to MMIX 16:07:24 in case it matters, one of the ARM extensions have yet another rule for operations on two NaN inputs. I don't know the details, ARM is complicated. 16:16:08 -!- augur has joined. 16:17:59 `? algorithm 16:18:00 Algorithms (derived from the medieval "algorisms") are popular sayings by former president Al Gore, except for God's Algorithm which was invented by a Google computer cluster. 16:20:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:51:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:56:53 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:57:13 -!- MDude has joined. 16:58:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:09:44 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:12:04 david_werecat.atom: points 0.29, score 19.86, rank 19/47 (+6) 17:12:50 david_werecat.atom: points 1.86, score 21.84, rank 16/47 (+3) 17:13:07 david_werecat.atom: points 0.29, score 19.86, rank 19/47 (-3) 17:27:27 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53251&oldid=50705 * FTcode * (-285) Added full Hello World program. 17:29:41 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53252&oldid=53251 * FTcode * (+316) /* "Hello, World!" */ 17:34:46 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53253&oldid=53252 * FTcode * (+7) 17:38:06 b_jonas: In case you have any interest, now I did write a program in Farbfeld Utilities for reading raw true colour pictures (called "rgbff"). 17:39:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JeffryThunderStrike * New user account 17:40:51 zzo38: let me see 17:40:55 <\oren\> I checked soemthing in and the build did not break. hurray 17:41:16 <\oren\> i don't have to revert the revert and then fix it 17:42:21 zzo38: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/artifact/b00272245f7f6236 but is there a manual? and why do I want this instead of ImageMagick's or ffmpeg's various convenient raw image input modes? 17:43:29 Of course there is a document: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffrgb 17:43:56 Later I will add the encoder as well, and could also add additional options such as XY format. 17:44:15 (And others, if you think there is something else missing, you can suggest it.) 17:44:28 zzo38: ah, right, it says "decoder" so it's about rgbff 17:44:46 <\oren\> what i kind of want is a diff editor 17:45:05 b_jonas: Yes. 17:45:29 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53254&oldid=53246 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+237) /* Introductions */ 17:45:45 <\oren\> like, that would take a patch file and allow you to edit the resultant seamlessly without affecting the original file 17:45:51 zzo38: this can work, though the options are easy to mess up 17:46:44 zzo38: and it would be nice if you supported (1) reading raw images with premultiplied alpha (2) images with multiple separate planes, so eg. all red pixels first, then all green pixels, then all blue pixels 17:47:23 Thank you, yes, I do intend I can add those features too later. 17:49:02 zzo38: which program was it that can transform colors (pixelwise) with an 5x4 affine transformation matrix (fixed for the image, given as argument)? 17:49:16 I think there was such a program in ff-utils, and if there isn't, there should be 17:50:04 Not sure what you mean; is it ff-matrix? 17:50:20 But, whatever it is you mean, I suppose, yes, there should be. 17:50:23 <\oren\> there should be a way to apply arbitrary image transformations to an X-window 17:51:07 zzo38: oh, that one doesn't seem to be documented. let me read it. 17:51:48 Write the documentation yourself if you want to; if not, I may write the document later. 17:52:14 (Although it supports only 4x4 and not 5x4; perhaps I should fix that) 17:53:52 anyway, that could be useful to decode a raw image where the alpha channel is stored negated (as transparentness rather than opaqueness), or grayscale images with the intensity stored negated, or decoding YUV444 images (but that one only once you support plane-interlaced rather than pixel-interlaced in rgbff) 17:54:15 zzo38: yes, you should definitely support affine transformation in that rather than just linear 17:55:01 it has to be done together because pixel values are clamped (to between 0 and (2<<16)-1) 17:56:13 in general, one thing I don't like in ff-utils is that they usually accept nonsensical command-line arguments without an error message, so it's hard to find such mistakes in usage 17:56:32 I mean syntactically nonsensical arguments 17:57:00 like passing a non-numeric string when a number is expected etc 17:57:10 passing extra arguments for utilities that take a fixed number of arguments 17:57:22 Yes, that is correct. (Although, if you simply want to negate channels, ff-swizzle is already capable of doing that.) 17:57:46 this isn't a strict requirements, programs are still usable that way, but still 17:58:06 -!- augur has joined. 17:59:47 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53255&oldid=37584 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+208) 18:00:22 I think I do not have time to fix anything now because I may have to leave soon, but on Friday I should have time to fix ff-matrix to do that, to fix rgbff, and so on. 18:02:15 Remember the wiki can be written by anyone, and so can the tickets, in case you want to do so (but it isn't mandatory; you don't have to if you don't want to do). 18:10:39 luckily the coefficients as command-line arguments for ff-matrix are in the right majorness that you can just extend it to an affine matrix by appending four extra arguments to the end 18:10:57 otherwise it would have been an ugly variable interpretation of the arguments 18:11:34 Yes, that is good. 18:12:44 so you just have to extend param to size 20 here (you're relying on the rule of global variables getting zero-bit-initialized here, right? you could just add a ={0} to make the initialization explicit) 18:13:09 and add a term +param[i+16] to the computation formula in process 18:13:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:14:53 zzo38: wait, is the outconv function incorrect? I think that can give you strange results (and technically also undefined behavior) if the pixel[i]*65535.0 overflows the domain of int 18:15:23 you can't rely on how casting double to int works in the overflowing case in a C program 18:16:00 -!- imode has joined. 18:18:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:20:05 zzo38: try something like static inline void outconv(void) { double v; int i,r; for (i=0;i<4;i++) { v=pixel[i]*65535.0; r=v<0.0?0:v>65535.0?65535:(int)rint(v); buf[i<<1]=r>>8; buf[(i<<1)+1]=r; } } 18:46:22 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53256&oldid=53253 * FTcode * (+91) added author 18:49:38 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53257&oldid=53256 * FTcode * (-2) /* "Hello, World!" */ 18:53:52 there is a deep connection between fractran and linear logic. 18:56:28 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:22:56 -!- fungot has joined. 20:16:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Andy * New user account 20:34:34 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53258&oldid=53255 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+631) /* Interpreter */ 20:35:08 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53259&oldid=53258 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+90) 20:35:21 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53260&oldid=53259 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+1) /* Interpreter */ 20:35:41 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:38:09 -!- brandonson has joined. 20:51:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:02 <\oren\> aaaaaa i have meetings all day and can't do any REAL work 21:38:41 Are meetings not real work? 21:38:56 If so you should scrap your meetings. 21:39:16 ,o0(Dilbert) 21:44:24 -!- sdhand has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in). 22:01:33 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:02:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:37:02 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:40:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:52:00 -!- erkin has joined. 23:52:32 -!- boily has joined. 23:56:19 helloily 23:56:28 QUINTHELLOPIA! 2017-10-25: 00:12:02 whats the best joke of today 00:23:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:00 * boily searches for the today best joke... 00:32:58 probably not the best, but here goes nothing: 00:33:18 Nice one. 00:33:27 How come nobody at the king's table laughed when he farted? Because noble gases don't cause reactions. 00:33:45 lol 00:33:46 * boily realises he joked without meaning it. I oerjaned. 00:37:00 `? password 00:37:02 The password of the month is revolutionary 00:44:20 `ysacbell (67) 00:44:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ysacbell: not found 00:49:14 ah c'mon... 00:49:21 `ysaclist (67) 00:49:23 ysaclist (67): boily shachaf 01:17:03 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:24:24 `dowg password 01:24:35 11206:2017-10-01 learn The password of the month is revolutionary \ 11180:2017-09-02 learn The password of the month is chanterelles \ 11164:2017-08-22 slwd password//s, word, month, \ 11155:2017-08-16 learn The password of the word is unacceptably delayed \ 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password o 01:45:29 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:59:27 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:05:38 -!- jix has joined. 02:06:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:21:45 -!- imode has joined. 02:22:55 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:24:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PERCOLATING CHICKEN). 02:57:19 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 03:14:25 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:09:52 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:15:28 -!- APic has joined. 05:43:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:21:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:30 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:02:37 -!- tellstogo has joined. 07:14:49 -!- tellstogo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:26:09 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:27:40 -!- MDude has joined. 07:35:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:38:18 -!- augur has joined. 07:40:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:04:45 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:08:14 -!- Cale has joined. 08:48:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:37:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:43:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:52:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:08:17 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:31:51 -!- augur has joined. 10:37:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:42:42 -!- boily has joined. 12:00:16 fungot: nostril. 12:00:16 boily: mr president, commissioner, we have been told that all this will lie at the very moment when the decision is justified, and so on. 12:00:23 ^styles 12:00:27 ^style 12:00:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 12:00:41 ^style fungot 12:00:41 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 12:00:46 fungot: nostril? 12:00:46 boily: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there that the ep peaked at 2 ' 12:00:59 ouch 12:01:19 b_jellonas. all hail the Avril Airbus! 12:01:41 (especially neon, which is the most noble of them) 12:08:46 neon airbus? 12:14:36 boily: no. I mean re "Because noble gases don't cause reactions." 12:15:30 hue hue hue :D 12:24:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SLATE CHICKEN). 12:58:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:22:34 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:40:25 -!- fungot has joined. 14:00:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:33:09 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.). 14:35:08 -!- grumble has joined. 14:45:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:46:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:54:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:57:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:11:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:15:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:39:06 I've been thinking about the TCness of Countercall 15:39:16 I was actually suspecting it wasn't until I remembered that it supports negative numbers 15:39:30 is there any way to read an arbitrarily large negative number without destroying information, though? 15:42:01 that's a new esolang by you, I don't think I've seen that 15:42:13 right 15:42:28 I'm getting a better idea of where the edge of TCness is nowadays 15:42:32 and Countercall is very close to it 15:45:43 here's a totally different question. for each chapter of the ed. Iványi, "Informatical algorithms" book, what's the latest available version and the latest available English version among the drafts found in the following directories on the web: 15:45:48 http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Elektronikus/Informatikai/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Informatikai-Konyvtar/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Oktatas/AlgofInf-Vol1-HTML/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Oktatas/AlgofInf-Vol2-HTML/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Oktatas/FirstExpert/ http://real.mtak.hu/21565/ http://real.mtak.hu/20746/ 15:46:27 Also, what are all the different editions of the paper books, and how are chapters rearranged between them? 15:47:43 is this something you expect me to know off by heart? :-D 15:47:48 It's confusing because it seems like the book was originally published in two volumes, but split according to which chapters were completed first, and then the chapters got rearranged in later editions and the English translation, plus now it has a third volume by a different publisher. 15:48:16 ais523: no, it's a research question that probably I'll have to figure out myself, and it's also not a question specifically for just you. 15:50:03 I don't expect anyone to know it by heart 16:04:06 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 16:04:17 -!- puckipedia has joined. 16:28:25 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53261&oldid=53260 * StellatedHexahedron * (+208) /* Interpreter */ 16:50:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:50:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:07:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: rebooting). 17:13:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:20:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: trying to teach my new window manager how Konversation works). 17:20:48 [wiki] [[Symball]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53262&oldid=45269 * StellatedHexahedron * (+6) fixed broken links 17:20:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:39:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: rebooting). 17:44:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:57:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:24:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: reboot). 18:29:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:35:30 -!- sdhand has joined. 18:35:50 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 18:35:50 -!- sdhand has joined. 19:06:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: restarting my client). 19:06:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:09:38 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:12:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:12:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 19:12:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 19:27:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:32:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:57:13 -!- imode has joined. 20:01:43 -!- xkapastel has joined. 20:12:16 -!- augur has joined. 20:24:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:36:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:46:24 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 21:12:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:21 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:24:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:43:03 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC http://znc.in). 21:43:38 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 21:44:25 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:46:04 -!- MDude has joined. 21:51:02 -!- pdxleif has joined. 22:02:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:23:40 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53263&oldid=53243 * Rdebath * (-1706) 22:25:30 -!- augur has joined. 22:41:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:43:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:58:24 -!- augur has joined. 23:01:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:02:32 -!- augur has joined. 23:12:41 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 23:54:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2017-10-26: 00:29:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:29 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:16:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:22:13 [wiki] [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53264&oldid=50034 * R.e.s. * (+319) /* Self BCT */ Fix typos and clarify the generalisation 01:59:15 Brian Cantwell Smith is really cool. 01:59:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USF1H70bRl0 01:59:55 i,i bcs523 02:00:06 I haven't figured out the relevance to esoteric languages yet but I'm sure its there 03:19:43 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:21:15 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:47:02 -!- dingbat has joined. 04:47:55 [wiki] [[Logical/Interpreter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53265 * David.werecat * (+31023) Added open source logical interpreter 04:49:51 [wiki] [[Logical]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53266&oldid=40509 * David.werecat * (+60) /* External resources */ Linked to new interpreter 05:23:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:06:57 does anyone know of a windows tool that can resize and compress every image in a folder and also maybe convert rotation and cropping metadata into actually rotating and cropping the real image data? 06:07:13 something a true beginner could use 06:07:55 imagemagick can do some fancy stuff, but is not really for beginners 06:08:19 but if I need to do bulk image manipulation, I use imagemagick + bash 06:10:26 same 06:11:27 but that solution wont fly with my mom, who can barely figure out a seven step process using only gui interfaces 06:15:22 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: world). 06:15:51 -!- grumble has joined. 06:15:57 ah, that's a slightly different case 06:16:25 no idea then 06:22:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:59:50 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:11:14 quintopia: resize and compress as in how. batch resizing? 07:12:26 quintopia: if so, are you always resizing to some percentage or resolution? 07:12:54 you could grab a bin of imagemagick and set up a batch script. "copy all your images into this folder, click this icon." 07:49:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:17:22 -!- tromp has joined. 09:37:15 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:39:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:39:43 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: "In other words, whenever one attempts to comb a hairy ball flat, there will always be at least one tuft of hair at one point on the ball." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_ball_theorem). 09:40:05 -!- grumble has joined. 09:48:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:01:22 -!- tromp has joined. 10:37:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:13:58 quintopia: a moment 11:14:26 quintopia: Irfanview is a gui program for viewing images on windows, homepage http://www.irfanview.com/ 11:14:34 and it has a dialog for bulk image resizing reencoding 11:15:08 or at least I think it has... let me check 11:15:16 definitely has a bulk reencoding dialog 11:15:21 I never really used it 11:15:54 I'm not sure if it has batch resize 11:16:12 one of the drawbacks of that software is that I can never remember how to spell its name 11:16:46 yes, it can do bulk resize 11:18:03 of course, the hard part in bulk resizing images is determining the quality settings for lossless encode 11:19:19 -!- augur has joined. 11:19:58 an alternative is to upload the images to facebook or twitter to automatically reencode everything in crappy quality, or to whatever these photo sharing sites are like instagram or google photos that reencode photos in good quality, 11:20:08 but the drawback of that is that you can't easily mass download the reencoded photos 11:21:05 and yes, the irfanview batch reencode can both resize and rotate images 11:25:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:34:47 -!- boily has joined. 11:54:21 boily: FWIW, I think Google Photos has sort of a mass-download option -- you can ask it for an album (or a selection) as a .zip. Presumably it's the re-encoded/resized versions, since that's what they store if you're not using the "original size" mode. 11:54:35 ... 11:54:39 b_jonas: ^. 11:54:48 I'm bad with tab completion, it seems. 11:55:13 fizziello. there's an original size mode? 11:56:16 boily: Yes, but it will count towards your storage quota. (Except if you have... I'm not sure if it was Pixel or Pixel 2. One of those, or both, get original-size photos for free.) 11:56:24 quintopia: ^ 11:56:43 fizzie: can you download in whatever size you want, as opposed to the largest version stored? 11:57:08 b_jonas: I don't think you can specify that, unfortunately. 11:57:45 boily: https://support.google.com/photos/answer/6220791?hl=en "Limited free storage that uses storage in your Google Account" "Free unlimited storage for Pixel and Pixel 2 users" apparently both of them. 11:57:46 what was the third big photo sharing site beside Instagram and Google Photos? 11:58:00 Flickr? 11:58:02 not Picasa, right? that's just the precursor of Google Photos I think 11:59:14 flickr? possibly. isn't that just a cat cheesburger gif sharing site? maybe I'm confusing it with some other site or it's both 11:59:49 No, it's actually slightly more photographer-oriented than Google Photos, at least IMO. 11:59:50 yes, looking it up, it is Flickr 12:00:01 although there could be more sites I'm missing here 12:00:02 Not quite as photography-oriented as 500px. 12:00:24 Imgur is the big cat gif sharing site, I think. 12:01:21 imgur is the reddit sharing site. 12:01:30 ah 12:01:40 Picasa is dead, dead again, and very dead :( 12:02:47 and the cat gif sharing site I was thinking of is tumblr 12:03:17 but yes, imgur is such as well 12:04:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:05:08 (The Pixel / Pixel 2 storage offer is even more complicated. It's free-forever for photos uploaded from a Pixel, and "original quality" is the only option you have. From Pixel 2, it's free-until-jan-16-2021 from Pixel 2, and you can choose normally between "high quality" and "original quality".) 12:07:01 "forever" 12:07:20 what's this pixel thing? 12:16:52 it's the new iPhone from Alphabet. 12:24:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MELODIC CHICKEN). 13:19:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:22:10 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 13:33:42 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Noirotm * New user account 13:36:50 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53267&oldid=53254 * Noirotm * (+262) Add introduction 13:58:41 [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53268&oldid=52669 * Noirotm * (+231) Add link to the fishr interpreter 14:00:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:48:01 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:59:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:04:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:32:51 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:41:37 -!- erkin has joined. 15:50:44 -!- fungot has joined. 16:13:07 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:33:54 -!- Remavas has joined. 16:44:19 -!- augur has joined. 16:49:46 -!- furozo has joined. 16:55:03 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:56:03 -!- erkin has joined. 17:06:38 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:23:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:25:40 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:29:29 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 17:32:05 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:38:46 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:14 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 18:00:15 -!- Remavas-3 has joined. 18:02:57 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:08:03 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! 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Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels. 00:12:30 helloochaf. considering that a fountain pen is called a "thousand year pen" in Chinese, and that gas is around 1.13 CAD/litre, then I'm guessing around 5 inches, give or take. 00:12:52 boily: I assume any pen thrown into a fountain becomes a fountain pen? 00:13:06 naturally. 00:13:15 it may tint the fountain water a bit, though. 00:13:35 unnoticeqbly 00:13:36 or quite a lot, if it's Noodler's Baystate Blue. 00:13:40 whoa, 1.13 CAD/litre is ~3.33 USD/gal 00:13:44 that's p. cheap 00:13:53 though still not as cheap as the US 00:13:58 Except CA 00:14:07 ? 00:14:26 quintopia: fountain pen ink is colourfully colourful hth 00:14:27 California tends to have rather pricy gas. 00:14:39 Here in NYC petrol is much cheaper than in the SF area. 00:14:53 But even in the SF area I think it's cheaper than what boily said. 00:15:53 Or at least it seemed cheaper based on a small sample. 00:16:02 I'd like petrol to be much more expensive. 00:16:08 $8/gal? $15/gal? 00:16:34 Ah, looks like CA had fairly substantial drops in gas prices in recent years relative to the rest of the country. 00:17:26 Courtesy of new refinery capacity it seems? 00:17:47 What would you like petrol prices to be? 00:18:00 i only collect cards 00:18:10 I'm not sure the *figure*, but I'd like for it to be priced to include the externalities. 00:18:17 Which are substantial. 00:18:22 How do you do that? 00:18:29 agreed 00:18:31 Taxes, of course. 00:18:40 Sure, but how? 00:18:46 taxes that are used to fund epa efforts 00:19:17 well first you stage a successful coup d'etat a la Luttwak 00:19:25 Determine roughly the impact caused by the pollution, as well as the influence on urban development from vehicles, and tax accordingly? 00:19:34 then you just declare a tax 00:19:35 OK, what's the impact? 00:19:49 I don't know. You'd need a study to really accurately measure this. 00:19:50 Also I think the latter should maybe be a road tax or something instead of a petrol tax? 00:19:55 Perhaps. 00:20:08 You can reduce traffic jams too by taxing actual road usage. 00:20:19 why tax electric vehicales who are already helping? 00:20:35 Helping what? Road congestion? 00:20:41 Because private auto ownership has a negative effect 00:20:53 helping move away from petrol usage 00:21:11 In the US, nobody's even bothered trying to accurately measure this stuff. Gas taxes here aren't to incentivize not-driving or anything, they're an attempt to pay for the upkeep of roads and that's all. 00:21:23 quintopia: Sure, and they wouldn't pay gas taxes in this scheme. 00:21:33 we should incentivise commercial trucks switching to electric somehow 00:21:48 What about the separate problem of oil being non-renewable? Should that be treated as an externality or should markets just deal with it? 00:21:50 oh i see 00:22:00 youre doing both gas and road tax 00:22:01 But, the mere impact of private automobile use is quite significant. 00:22:26 shachaf: I suspect in this setup, it'd end up being a moot question. 00:22:39 Well, it's a more general question about non-renewable resources. 00:22:54 If we priced gas to include the external cost caused by its pollution, I can't imagine it'd remain popular for long. 00:23:06 True. 00:23:12 i,i "it" being the government 00:23:13 I'm unclear on that. 00:23:45 In practice people are going to burn most of the oil within, I don't know, a hundred years? Probably less? However long it takes for prices to get high enough that people don't drive. 00:23:53 We're just burning it up, man. 00:23:58 And then we won't have any left to eat. 00:24:49 Of course, if you think it's going to be valuable for other uses later, you can speculate, and buy a bunch now and sell it later when prices get higher. 00:25:03 But it'll probably be a long time, maybe longer than the lifetime of a reasonable speculator? 00:25:20 So what does that mean? Are markets doing the "right thing"? 00:26:01 People are effectively selling oil/whatever for roughly the cost it takes to extract it. That cost seems kind of accidental, and too low, to me. 00:26:01 To my knowledge, most petroleum-derived stuff is only *cheapest* that way, not *unpractical* via other production methods. 00:26:36 If so, it's probably not that big of a deal if we're out? 00:27:15 I mean, it still seems a bit of an example of an unefficient market because nobody's paying the real cost of stuff, but... 00:28:43 But e.g. for fertilizer, oil is only used *at all* because it's a convenient source of hydrogen. 00:29:31 Right, http://www.env-econ.net/2013/12/env-econ-101-hotellings-rule-.html 00:29:42 There are (naturally) many, many ways of acquiring hydrogen. 00:30:38 I like hydrogen. 00:30:45 Do you like this? 00:31:00 Electrolysis of water is probably the worst case there, and even *now* it's actually used for some commercial ammonia production. 00:31:14 (mostly near hydroelectric plants with excess capacity) 00:31:38 Hydrogen's pretty useful, yeah. 00:32:03 Bit of a crap fuel, but it's a great element. 00:51:00 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:58:26 `5 w 00:58:32 1/3:time cube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (alrea 00:59:31 `n 00:59:31 2/3:dy wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. \ heh//heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. \ `sled//`sled // \ string diagram//String diagrams would be useful in category theory, except they're unreadable due to being curled up in tiny dimensions. Taneb invented them anyhow. \ roborosewater 00:59:52 `n 00:59:52 3/3://RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater 01:00:12 `? tanebvention 01:00:13 Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex. 01:00:23 Italian? 01:19:59 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:31:21 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:33:53 boily: https://twitter.com/Ngevd/status/918012736721883137 hth 01:46:43 tdh. t. 02:08:17 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:27:04 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:29:56 nooooooo! fungooooooooot! 02:30:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ANGEL CHICKEN). 02:38:41 RIP 02:53:22 -!- fungot has joined. 03:03:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:16:38 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 05:12:27 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:17:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:31:19 -!- trn has joined. 05:35:35 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:51:37 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:51:43 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:09:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:10:26 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:11:41 -!- trn has joined. 06:16:04 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:21:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:42:30 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 06:45:31 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:09:38 -!- imode has joined. 07:13:26 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 07:26:02 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:32:40 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:36:49 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 08:00:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:38:56 -!- augur has joined. 08:44:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:50:21 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:36:18 -!- idris-bot has joined. 09:44:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:45:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:50:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:35:32 -!- boily has joined. 11:44:04 fungot: helloooooooooooooooo! 11:44:04 boily: " so that the text by overprinting ' _____' on top. ve old input from somewhere. i've only skimmed the paper as he spoke, ' is the fnord" 11:44:20 fungot: please don't void me with a fnord hth 11:44:21 boily: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xx, xxx, xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx 11:44:33 eek D: 11:51:19 -!- atslash has joined. 12:11:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:25:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: QUEUE CHICKEN). 12:49:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:16 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:51:46 huh? 13:51:52 ^style xx 13:51:52 Not found. 13:52:02 ooooh 13:52:04 hahah 13:52:20 ^style 13:52:20 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:52:27 ... makes sense 13:55:18 ^bf >++++++++++[>++++++++++++>+<<-]+[[<+>->.<]>>.<<<[>+<-]>+] 13:55:18 x.xx.xxx.xxxx.xxxxx.xxxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ... 13:55:44 ^bf >++++++++[>++++++++++++++++>++++<<-]+[[<+>->.<]>>.<<<[>+<-]>+] 13:55:44 € €€ €€€ €€€€ €€€€€ €€€€€€ €€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ ... 13:55:51 ^bf >++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>++++<<-]+[[<+>->.<]>>.<<<[>+<-]>+] 13:55:51 x xx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ... 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:03:47 [wiki] [[Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53270&oldid=37586 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+340) 14:05:31 [wiki] [[Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53271&oldid=53270 * JeffryThunderStrike * (-6) 14:06:22 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53272&oldid=53261 * JeffryThunderStrike * (-60) 14:18:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 14:25:25 -!- Cale has joined. 14:27:49 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:28:22 -!- tromp has joined. 15:01:15 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:01:30 -!- augur has joined. 15:05:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:05:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:21:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:39:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:45:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:34:38 <\oren\> oh good, meeting with greg today 17:35:16 <\oren\> he can teach me more of the wunderbar C++1x features 18:00:16 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:23:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 18:36:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:45:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:46:04 -!- augur has joined. 18:50:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:02:10 -!- erkin has joined. 19:21:30 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:28:05 * impomatic is heading to the Computer Museum in Cambridge tomorrow. 19:32:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:32:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 19:32:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:38:45 -!- imode has joined. 19:40:27 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:08:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:10:25 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:12:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:12:34 -!- imode has joined. 20:26:45 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:28:40 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:41:50 impomatic, oh wow, that's a really cool place! And not too far from me as it happens 20:42:11 I went a couple of months ago, my friends had to tear me away from a BBC Basic 20:53:49 I've been to the Computer History Museum in Mountain View 20:56:17 Taneb: they have a ZX Spectrum event tomorrow to celebrate 35 years. 20:57:10 I'd love to go to the museum in Mountain View. 20:57:37 impomatic, oh, cool! 20:57:39 You should! 20:57:55 shachaf: bit of a long trip for me! 20:58:27 imo do it hth 20:58:44 I was wondering if they have any Core War stuff in their collection though. Since they used to be in Boston (or inherited the collection from the Boston museum) 21:00:23 impomatic, are you based in Cambridge? 21:01:04 No, Lincolnshire. It's a 3 hour trip on the train. 21:01:21 Aaaaaah, I see! 21:01:22 Plus a 6 mile walk at 4am to get to the train station :-O 21:01:48 Oh wow, dedication 21:02:36 I just have to cycle for quarter of an hour 21:03:56 Just so I can get to Cambridge by 8am. There's a train station 1/2 a mile away, but I'd arrive 3 hours later if I caught the train from there. 21:05:34 ...If I go tomorrow and see you, I'll have met face-to-face two people here, both of whose nicks begin with "i" 21:06:10 I'll be in at least the right country to meet izabera at New Years, if I want to continue this trend, I guess 21:08:57 But countries tend to be quite big, really 21:23:11 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:24:02 -!- atrapado_ has joined. 21:42:12 Well if you go, I'll be the one wearing a dark red shirt :-) 21:50:25 -!- augur has joined. 22:02:17 -!- atrapado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:38:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:39:44 I've been in both, and the Mountain View one is fancier, but the Cambridge one has more personality. 22:40:47 (Do I remember right that the Cambridge one is the one in the sort of a shed?) 22:41:28 (yeah) 22:41:34 (great fun when it's raining) 22:42:15 Taneb: There was a place in London with a classroom's worth of BBC Micros, but I think it was a temporary thing. 22:43:09 fizzie, there's a place in Cambridge with that as a permanent thing ;) 22:43:17 Keep meaning to buy my own 22:44:26 https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/04/02/a-room-full-of-bbc-microcomputers-comes-to-east-london/ there was also a bunch of other things 22:55:10 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:55:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:02:37 -!- boily has joined. 23:25:43 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53273 * B jonas * (+10024) Created page with "'''Olvasható''' (also sometimes called '''Olvashato''' is a general purpose toy language created by [[User:b_jonas|b_jonas]]. The olvasható source is compiled to a Prolog p..." 23:30:11 helloily 23:30:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:34:19 QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:34:58 fungot: nostril. 23:39:15 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53274&oldid=53273 * B jonas * (+276) 23:40:18 b_jonas: b_jellonas. you have an unbalanced parenthesis hth 23:40:47 I have WildMidi in my computer, and some music it won't play so good. But, I think I figure out why it might be. I looked in the wildmidi.cfg, and, not all of the numbers 0 to 127 are listed under bank 0. Is that why it doesn't work? I looked in that directory, and it has only the files listed there; not the rest of them. How to obtain the rest of the files, and will this fix it if so? 23:41:38 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:43:53 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 2017-10-28: 00:02:26 -!- sleffy has joined. 00:22:20 `? quintopia 00:22:22 quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator. He is flooded by thundercats and thunderdogs. He is the temporal antipode of boily despite living on the same continent. 00:23:51 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Evilinator. 00:27:16 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53275&oldid=53274 * B jonas * (+3363) 00:47:34 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53276&oldid=53275 * B jonas * (+792) 00:48:39 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53277&oldid=53249 * B jonas * (+17) 00:49:01 [wiki] [[Olvashato]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53278 * B jonas * (+24) Redirected page to [[Olvasható]] 00:52:27 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53279&oldid=53276 * B jonas * (+42) /* Compiler */ 00:53:04 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53280&oldid=53279 * B jonas * (+3) /* Links */ 00:56:04 boily: what do you miss most about when you were 20 01:01:09 eeeeeh... 01:01:14 * boily thinks 01:14:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ARMY CHICKEN). 01:34:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:42:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:58:27 How to acquire the rest of the GUS patch files for use with WildMIDI? 02:27:47 I do not have the file to test the interlacing and premultiplied alpha suggested at http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/info/31d44cd6c82733eb 02:34:02 -!- xkapastel has joined. 02:53:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:56:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:58:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:15:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:16:19 -!- augur has joined. 03:25:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:18:14 -!- Muhammedlee has joined. 04:23:15 -!- Muhammedlee has left. 04:59:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:06:05 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:07:49 -!- alercah has joined. 05:11:44 -!- imode has joined. 05:24:13 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:26:56 Brian Cantwell Smith says that every computation has both a meaning and mechanical realization. 05:27:00 [wiki] [[Insignificant]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53281 * Doesthiswork * (+659) Created page with "
Computing is best understood as a dialectical interplay of meaning and mechanism.
Brian Cantwell Smith [http://www.ageofsignificance.org/aos/en/aos-v1c0.html..." 05:45:02 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:57:30 -!- xkapastel has joined. 06:02:42 -!- augur has joined. 06:06:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:07:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:25:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:24:20 -!- augur has joined. 07:29:01 -!- Hooloovo0 has changed nick to HoolooBOO. 07:34:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:43:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:45:57 -!- erkin has joined. 07:45:57 -!- erkin has quit (Client Quit). 07:53:10 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/a/2l5Fm 07:56:07 -!- augur has joined. 08:10:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:12:10 -!- augur has joined. 08:56:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:39:37 -!- augur has joined. 09:44:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:17:03 hmm, https://xkcd.com/1906/ ... https://xkcd.com/1908/ ... I think I'm seeing a pattern here. 10:18:28 and imgur should really distinguish videos from other pictures in the URI 10:18:44 s/other// 10:37:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:44:17 of course sometimes a pattern is just a lazy cartoonist. http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/12149 http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/12155 10:45:44 that's only 6 comics later, definitely part of the same series 11:00:07 I accuse her of laziness because only one panel is actually new... 11:00:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:01:29 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:01:31 OTOH this is better than another "I have no good comic idea today so let's make a comic about comic ideas" comic. 11:09:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:25:03 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:07:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:55:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:58:47 [wiki] [[Brainwang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53282 * Rdebath * (+5687) Is my assertion correct? 13:37:33 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:51:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:57:25 -!- augur has joined. 14:00:35 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:02:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:03:27 -!- fungot has joined. 14:06:14 -!- boily has joined. 14:18:05 `5 w 14:18:10 1/3:false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. \ markdown//The markdown flavor of the day is nutella. \ turkey//Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In th 14:18:25 -!- int-e has left ("ABSENTMINDED CHICKEN"). 14:18:25 -!- int-e has joined. 14:28:07 wouldn't that be the Hungry-Ostrich not just plain Ostrich? 14:33:16 `n 14:33:17 2/3:e 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. \ misspellings of croissant//misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ welcome//Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: `n 14:33:19 3/3:esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 14:56:53 shish kebab goes well with feather dusters 15:05:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:17:06 int-ello. eh? 15:18:03 Soon you'll be wearing my sword like a shish kebab! / First you better stop waving it about like a feather duster. 15:21:11 that doesn't rhyme tdnh 15:21:35 it's not supposed to rhyme 15:21:55 Hasn't any of you heathens played Monkey Island, I'm disappointed. :P 15:23:35 I played Monkey Island 3, where thee insults have to rhyme. 15:23:38 the 15:23:49 I also played the others but I think rhyming is better. 15:23:56 I see. 16:00:34 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53283&oldid=52265 * Hakatashi * (+6) /* Fugue */ Update hello world source URL 16:10:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:18:59 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:25:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:25:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 16:27:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:43:37 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:16:37 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53284&oldid=53280 * Zzo38 * (+1) 17:19:21 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53285&oldid=53284 * Zzo38 * (+6) 17:23:42 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:24:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 17:40:09 -!- netcatkit has joined. 17:53:47 -!- netcatkit has quit. 17:57:49 -!- augur has joined. 18:02:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:26:12 One part of one computer game I was make up, is, if you push 0 to call the operator, then instead is calling the operetta by mistake. They are playing John Philip Sousa's "Liberty Bell March". 18:27:33 Why not play a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta? 18:29:16 After you complete the game, the final screen is the operetta house and the music can be heard from the outside; that is when your wing is fixed, so unlike the other screens in this game, this screen represents a vertical view of the sky on top and ground on the bottom. 18:29:35 (I mean the final credit screen) 18:29:59 Maybe I could put a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta, but I did not think of that, for one thing. 18:32:41 Maybe that will be the sequel of the game. 19:33:24 -!- augur has joined. 19:50:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:53:06 -!- augur has joined. 20:00:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:02:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:06:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:11:17 -!- augur has joined. 20:21:02 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53286&oldid=51718 * Osmarks * (+169) 20:21:17 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53287&oldid=53286 * Osmarks * (+0) 20:32:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:24 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53288&oldid=53287 * Osmarks * (+532) 20:33:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:18 -!- augur has joined. 20:38:27 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53289&oldid=53288 * Osmarks * (+271) 20:41:32 -!- imode has joined. 20:43:46 -!- xkapastel has joined. 20:45:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:58:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:39 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53290&oldid=53289 * Osmarks * (+1437) 21:17:45 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53291&oldid=53290 * Osmarks * (+273) 21:19:04 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53292&oldid=53291 * Osmarks * (-6) 21:19:20 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53293&oldid=53292 * Osmarks * (-6) /* Example Programs */ 21:23:43 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:27:12 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53294&oldid=53293 * Osmarks * (+171) 21:28:54 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53295&oldid=53294 * Osmarks * (+66) 21:29:14 [wiki] [[Turi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53296&oldid=53295 * Osmarks * (-11) Fix 
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21:57:40  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53297&oldid=53296 * Osmarks * (+7) /* Example Programs */
21:58:25  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53298&oldid=53297 * Osmarks * (+38) /* Example Programs */
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22:11:04  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53299&oldid=53298 * Osmarks * (-42) 
22:29:02  [wiki] [[Olvasható]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53300&oldid=53285 * B jonas * (+527) 
22:31:02  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53301&oldid=53299 * Osmarks * (+397) 
22:32:15  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53302&oldid=53301 * Osmarks * (+166) Unbreak broken table
22:32:59  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53303&oldid=53302 * Osmarks * (+1) Really unbreak tables
22:49:08  taneb: did you go to the museum today? I was there but for some reason couldn't get on IRC using the museum's wifi
22:49:33  impomatic, I didn't, I'm afraid!
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23:18:14  `5 w
23:18:20  1/2:thirt//A thirt is for throwsing snowballs at forty things. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. \ ghoti//“Ghoti” is a very fishy spelling. \ freefull//FreeFull the Unpronounceable is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ twh//twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. han
23:18:20  `n
23:18:21  2/2:d.
23:20:49 -!- Vorpal has joined.
23:35:03  helloily
23:40:15  `l//rn
23:40:16  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/l//rn: No such file or directory
23:40:34  what is that command called again
23:40:49  `l/rn
23:40:50  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/l/rn: No such file or directory
23:41:00  `l\\rn
23:41:01  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l\\rn: not found
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23:47:29  QUINTHELLOPIA!
23:47:35  `le/rn
23:47:36  Usage: `le/[/]rn //
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23:47:44  fungot: nostril.
23:51:35  `le/rn Seventh Day Adventism//Seventh Day Adventism is an attempt to bugfix an off-by-one error in Anabaptism
23:51:39  Learned 'seventh day adventism': Seventh Day Adventism is an attempt to bugfix an off-by-one error in Anabaptism
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2017-10-29:

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00:49:15  [wiki] [[Olvasható]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53304&oldid=53300 * B jonas * (-54) /* Compiler */
00:57:01  b_jonas: I have fixed the things you requested for Farbfeld Utilities. (However, I do not have the file to test the "rgbff" program.)
01:12:12  zzo38: thanks
01:12:14 -!- Elronnd has joined.
01:12:29  zzo38: to test rgbff with what input?
01:12:40  [wiki] [[Correct Syntax Error]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53305&oldid=35965 * Elronnd * (+381) Another idea
01:12:49  one with premultiplied alpha?
01:13:23  if you want abgr with premultiplied alpha, then I'll have to export one of those from a program with cairo
01:15:03  if you want one that's planewise interlaced, then I'll get a raw yuv444 image
01:24:56  wob_jonas: With any input; you can test it yourself if you want to, and write another complaint in there if you find that it doesn't work. (You can wait until you need it, if you want to.)
01:25:08  ok
01:26:05  then I'll have to test with those special options as well as just ordinary raw bgr and grayscale images
01:26:12  headerless ones
01:27:52  Yes, that is how it is working.
01:28:56  I will be able to test with various formats
01:29:03  not during weekend, but later
01:29:21  OK
01:30:40  also, ff as an abbreviation for the german Farb-feld makes so much sense that now I wonder what ffmpeg was named of
01:32:32 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:32:36  I don't know either. (But "ff" as an abbreviation for farbfeld is used in the official package as well, not only my own.)
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01:38:02  Hmm. The if(v>65535) v=65535; statement in outconv in ff-matrix.c is useless now. I wonder why I left it in.
01:38:15  at least it doesn't hurt
01:41:04  Wikipedia says "FFmpeg" is for "fast forward".
01:41:32  How does "mpeg" stand for "ast orward"?
01:42:11  shachaf: mp stands for motion picture, which makes sense for ffmpeg
01:42:27  "eg" might stand for "example"
01:44:30  is it still fast forward in "ffplay"? because that one plays videos at normal speed
01:47:22  I can't even run the Olvasható compiler with modern ruby. They changed the syntax too much for my programs.
01:49:33  I'm trying to decode what it does, since it's 11 years old code I don't really remember
01:53:25 -!- moony has changed nick to evilmoony.
01:08:30  oh right! in t1n.olv, I implement the loop function with the Y-combinator technique, without explicit recursion
01:08:32  crazy code
01:08:38  but it makes sense to use it to test the compiler
01:24:53 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/a/7Epmp
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01:40:23  [wiki] [[Olvasható]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53306&oldid=53304 * B jonas * (+2119) 
01:45:25  [wiki] [[Olvasható]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53307&oldid=53306 * B jonas * (+151) 
01:53:11  [wiki] [[Olvasható]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53308&oldid=53307 * B jonas * (-212) 
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02:04:00  I don't get it. Where does the compiler actually determine whether the match is exhaustive? I don't see the corresponding code
02:09:36  This is ridiculous. That code must be big. How did it detect the non-exhaustiveness?
02:10:14  [wiki] [[Olvasható]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53309&oldid=53308 * B jonas * (-751) 
02:14:00  [wiki] [[Talk:Olvasható]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53310 * B jonas * (+838) Created page with "== Implicit catch-all abort arm? ==  It seems as if compiler added an extra aborting arm to non-exhausting let match expressions.  You can see such an example in..."
03:09:58  One thing I thought of just now is with using the rgbff with a television like interlacing, where you have odd field and even field lines.
03:10:35  You could do with two planes, one red and one green, and then to do ff-tensor and ff-matrix to combine them into one picture. (You can then ff-dntsc to restore the colours.)
03:13:01  `unidecode 𓂺
03:13:03  ​[U+130BA EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D053]
03:37:11  ...but which egyptian hieroglyph is it?
03:38:29  I don't know Egyptian so well
03:43:46  Do you have a METAFONT program to make Egyptian hieroglyphics?
03:52:10  it is the ejaculating penis hieroglyph 
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06:45:02  Just remembered a maths lecture I had a couple of years back covering the Nullstellensatz
06:45:49  Lecturer was trying to translate the name into English, and said "null means zero, stellen means points, satz means theorem... the zero point theorem?"
06:45:59  And me being me I shouted out "The pointless theorem?"
06:46:07  And he said "YES! ...no."
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09:22:03  [wiki] [[Turi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53311&oldid=53303 * Osmarks * (+23) 
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13:54:54  `? fungot
13:54:56  fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
13:56:43  Fungot (1BB) Creature ― Fungatog; Phasing, Shroud, Shadow. “Fnord.”
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14:08:00  What should fungot's P/T be?
14:08:01 -!- fungot has joined.
14:08:08  fungot: are you powerful?
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14:28:03  phasing, eh
14:30:52  maybe 1/3, with a +1/0 in irc style.
14:37:12  Oh are there any new interesting developments in CaC land? Any new scams?
14:37:47  (this came out of pondering the various causes of fungot's phasing)
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15:11:07  {B}: Fungot gains +1/-1 and lifelink.
15:11:12  what's a CaC again?
15:18:56  that provider that shall not be named
15:20:21  tdh.
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15:55:35  helloily
15:56:51  whats the today plan? tile shuffling?
15:59:11  boily: btw I would've thought of fungot as blue, not black.
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17:22:00  Maybe to write, "gains +1/-1 and lifelink until end of turn"
17:23:22  (And, I also don't know what color to put; but you don't need to have only one.)
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19:44:12  Haha! After pbf and xkcd, smbc tackles the wishing well too.
19:45:19  http://pbfcomics.com/comics/wishing-well/ https://www.xkcd.com/561/ https://www.xkcd.com/568/ http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/wishing-well
19:47:41  Yeah, technically the xkcd well isn't a wishing well. Xkcd has eyelash wishes and a wish-granting genie instead.
19:49:10  https://www.xkcd.com/152/ is the genie, which story I then used in http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395
19:49:22  ais523: let me tell you about the latest bad user interface design I've seen
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19:53:45  wob_jonas: go on
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20:01:22  ais523: so there's this underground here, the M3. its tunnel was built to also serve as an underground bomb shelter back in the cold war scare.
20:02:43  http://dilbert.com/strip/1992-04-09
20:03:37  in most stations on the platforms, there's two fancy emergency buttons, one with a yellow box with a speaker and microphone to talk to an operator, with encouraging labels next to them about how there's a first aid box and defibrillator machine available at the station master's office,
20:03:59  also, "well" is a terrible search term, and even worse when the search engine will also match it with "we'll".
20:04:31  and one with a red or black cover and the button presumably underneath saying it's an emergency stop button that shuts down the power at the rails that you must press if someone falls to the tracks, to protect them from electric shock and to stop the train
20:04:51  int-e: yes, and "wishing well" is also ambiguous
20:05:12 -!- evilmoony has changed nick to moonytheawoo.
20:05:59  ais523: so anyway, a few days ago on Kőbánya-Kispest station, which is one of the few surface (not underground) stations of metro M3, I saw that there's a new fancy box:
20:06:36  this one has *three* emergency buttons mounted on it, one below the other. on top, there's a yellow box with speaker and button to talk to the operator
20:07:20  in the middle, there's a black cover with large label saying emergency stop and pull if someone has fallen on the tracks, but no button in sight because it's behind the cover presumably
20:07:59  and in the bottom there's a red panel with a nicely visible button (emergency style hidden behind a small transparent panel) and small label saying it's a fire alarm button
20:08:43  If someone falls to the tracks and someone quickly has to press the emergency stop button, he'll very likely press the fire alarm button by mistake, and then he'll have to evacuate the station because there's a fire alarm
20:08:51  so you're worried that people will set off the fire alarm trying to stop someone getting electrocuted
20:09:05  hopefully the fire alarm ALSO has the side effect of shutting down the electricity
20:09:16  in the UK I don't think we have a standard "cut power" button on the Underground
20:09:21  or any such button at all
20:09:26  we have a standard fire alarm call point design though
20:09:33  but who knows, this is an end terminal, so the train LEAVING the station in case of a fire might actually be a good idea
20:09:37  in the Underground, it's silent so as to not cause panic
20:10:13  ais523: there's not much point for a specific fire alarm button I think. for that, you'd press the operator button.
20:10:46  and call people to evacuate when possible
20:11:55  the operator phone doesn't seem too useful either, because everyone has a mobile phone, there's guaranteed mobile phone reception in the underground stations, so you can just call the emergency services who contact the operator
20:12:09  the power cut button? that one IS absolutely useful, and should be there
20:12:53  there's already a few people hit by the metro every year (though most of them deliberately commit suicide by jumping just when the train is coming, so the button wouldn't help, but still)
20:17:51  All the metro carriages of M3 and M2 have an call button with mic by the way, which calls the train driver, and the driverless M4 has similar buttons that call an operator.
20:18:26  They also have emergency door opener handles, and the older M3 carriages also have emergency break handles.
20:19:09  Luckily they omitted the emergency break from the newer types of metro, which is good, because an emergency break in a metro is a bad idea anyway.
20:19:17 -!- fungot has joined.
20:20:12  oh hi, fungot
20:20:12  wob_jonas: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
20:20:42  the fungot style is a bit to fungotty
20:20:42  int-e: ( c) a player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra " 0" and ( down-from n ( 0
20:20:50  ^style
20:20:50  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:21:02  ^style enron
20:21:02  Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset)
20:22:08  `grwp home
20:22:16  coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ farbfeld:zzo38's Farbfeld utilities is a package of command-line programs (with rather strange command-line syntax) for manipulating images in a specific raw format called farbfeld. It's somewhat underdoc
20:23:37  `? whom
20:23:39  See: who
20:23:43  `? who
20:23:45  Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
20:23:50  ?
20:43:25  Do you have source codes of bdftopcf and pcftobdf programs? This way, can learn working of such format, to make program that can make PCF fonts; I can also then add the support into SDLTERM (which currently does not support custom fonts; it only has a single built-in font).
20:45:28  zzo38: let me check, the debian package repository probably knows which package they come from and where their source is
20:46:12  https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=bdftopcf&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any says it's the xfonts-utils package
20:47:23  @tell oerjan Re: Who cares about ancient cases anyway? / To whom it may concern...
20:47:23  Consider it noted.
20:47:27  which links to https://www.x.org/releases/individual/app/ for tarballs
20:47:30  zzo38: ^
20:52:07  OK thanks
20:56:28  what has become of xlswins?
20:56:51  Also, do you know how to get the missing patch files for WildMIDI? I noticed some are missing, and perhaps that is why some MIDI files won't play properly.
20:58:13  int-e: that said, it's possible that bdftopcf is older than the whole x.org and it's inherinted those utilities mostly unchanged from ancient X11
20:58:44  I don't know anything about xlswins or WildMIDI or MIDI in general
20:59:09  zzo38: I suspect that was for you
21:05:21  Hah. X11R5: "xlswins has been removed; it is replaced by xwininfo -tree."
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21:07:09  A extended pcf format can be made up, with two additional tables, which are the ligature/kern table and the extended character table. These tables are used only if ligature mode is activated in the program that selects these fonts, and the extended character table is then used when the ligature/kern table references it.
21:07:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services).
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21:12:18  Do you think it can be good?
21:13:57  zzo38: I don't see a point. just use the modern formats like otf. they can store graymap images, even though that rarely gets used these days, or just hinted vector fonts.
21:14:28  zzo38: I want nice fonts with gray pixels, they are better than bitmaps, only much harder to make
21:14:43  sure, pcf was nice back in the slow computers and small memory devices, but these days we can have better
21:14:45  I prefer pure bitmap fonts; to me, I think they look better than graymaps.
21:15:11  they look better than a lot of bad fonts, sure
21:16:42  However, my suggestion for the new version of X protocol anyways, that the protocol doesn't care about the file format used for fonts, although pcf is a recommended format, it can support other formats too if they want to. However, two flags must be selected by the client that selects the font, which are EnableLigatures and EnableAntialiasing.
21:17:25  Graymaps (or even full colours) can't be displayed if EnableAntialiasing is not set (in such case, it may hit to pure bitmaps instead), while astral Unicode characters won't be available if EnableLigatures is not set.
21:18:48  (If the server (or the font format) does not support those flags, they will simply be ignored, as though they aren't selected.)
21:20:08  I don't really like otf and that stuff, but this new proposed system nevertheless doesn't care and would be potentially capable of using them if you want to do.
21:21:23  Now do you think this one can be good?
21:23:33  you talked about this already. I answered that fonts are irrelevant for the X protocol these days. the X protocol just gets the client to map memory and graphics processor control for windows they have, and they do the rendering themselves in client-side stuff
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21:25:14  That can't work in case of remote clients though.
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21:37:14  zzo38: it still can work. it's just slower because the rendered pixmap stuff has to get forwarded through the network. the X server still doesn't know about client-side font rendering then.
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21:39:28  remote X still more or less works on modern systems, just like other kinds of remote desktops
21:39:43  "work"
21:39:56  for most modern programs it's a bandwidth hog.
21:40:42  well yes
21:40:50  you have to pay for transmitting fancy graphics
21:40:52  Running things in Xvnc works much better. Or use xpra.
21:40:57  you can tone down the features in that case
21:41:27  but I don't really care about remote X
21:43:43  I care a bit, though mostly for silly stuff. The main point is that I'm bandwidth limited at home, but not at work, so having a remote browser download stuff is convenient. And occasionally, links just doesn't do the trick and I resort to firefox in Xvnc.
21:44:17  int-e: ok
21:45:17  And since the point is to save bandwidth, having 10MB transfer just for getting the browser window displayed once isn't good either... that's the order of magnitude I'm observing with dumb X forwarding.
21:48:34  yes, that makes sense
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22:18:14  I am making a program to render PC CGA screens (both text and graphics mode; both raw and BSAVE)
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22:46:55  Why does PC have its own cursor blink logic instead of using the 6845 cursor blink logic?
22:58:51  because.
23:02:20  I don't understand the question; from what I'm reading the text cursor *is* managed by the 6845 on CGA?
23:04:58  The cursor position is managed by 6845, but not the cursor blinking.
23:05:27  (This can be seen if you look at the schematics.)
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23:17:56  [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53312&oldid=53159 * Challenger5 * (+79) 
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23:21:41 * ATMunn pokes fungot
23:21:42  ATMunn: a meeting.) if any of the ena and affiliated and unaffiliated with wptf on many california pipelines that could have helped the state had an outstanding season, finishing the facility that we
23:22:06 * ATMunn pokes fungot again
23:22:06  ATMunn: we end up the indemnity. aquila. 330853915 telex: inmarsat fax no. 713/ 646-7341 internal extension 33866 or kathy willard, vice president of the only one.
23:22:23 * ATMunn pokes fungot one last time
23:22:23  ATMunn: on an isda schedule/ credit, for the lessor of 40, where the above mentioned questions of the california legislature the generators that have previously, in notice to members PHASH 01-333 ( http://www.nymex.com/ refernce/ notices/ 2001
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00:22:52 * boily pokes ATMunn poking fungot
00:22:53  boily: source international brotherhood of electrical workers. robert paul, and were not written, the group." photo of the account on the deal for the troubled power grid to them to do the best for you.
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01:19:48  Is good, they made the IBM PC technical reference book. If I make up the new computer, the book would also include all of that stuff too; the complete description of all memory map, hardware registers, schematics, BIOS source codes, instruction set, video interface, etc.
01:20:08  To me, I think would be good idea; it should be needing to have.
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04:44:37  I have a program called DRAWX; its .DRX file format seems to be just the raw screen data with no header. (I wrote a program just now to display raw PC screen data, and it does display.)
04:45:17  (At least this is true for CGA modes; I don't know about EGA, VGA, and Hercules modes.)
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05:55:07  Now my Farbfeld Utilities package includes programs for reading thirteen formats and for writing eleven formats (in both cases, not counting farbfeld, which all the programs in the package support anyways).
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10:54:56  `5 w
10:55:02  1/2:hallucination//You are just imagining this wisdom entry. \ `3//`3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to confuse everyone. \ chuchichäschtli//chuchichäschtli is spoken as [ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli] \ integer//An integer is a number that does not contain a wildcard that matches any character other than a line fee
10:55:03  `n
10:55:04  2/2:d. \ alumni//Alumni is a compromise spelling suggested to solve the aluminum vs aluminium debate that never really caught on, except in a few big colleges.
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11:53:07  `cwlprits alumni
11:53:15  wob_jonäs
11:53:18  whoa
12:00:05  what?
12:00:45  I didn't expect that to be a b_jonasdom.
12:02:10  zzo38: re cursor blinking, is that about the orignal PC?
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14:13:33  wow! we must be in the future. the FSzEK library now accepts online payments for my late library loans.
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14:21:46  tick tock tick tock... oh that kind of library.
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15:55:40  b_jonas: Yes this cursor blinking I wrote about the original PC.
15:56:08  But, maybe it is because they want the cursor blinking to be synchronized with the text blinking.
15:57:47  they should have syncopated it 
16:01:15  Even so, the way they implemented it, means, cannot make non-blinking cursor.
16:02:08  (Although I suppose you could still turn on the 6845 cursor blinking too, and then the cursor might be result strangely blink.)
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16:14:35  If you know some thing about the PC CGA, maybe, you can see if my program for rendering a picture from the data for CGA into farbfeld, is good or has something wrong with it. One thing I notice is that the picture isn't centred, but I don't know if it is supposed to be centre or not.
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16:39:17  zzo38: is there a wiki for esoteric chess variants
16:45:21  I don't know, but, you can make up a esoteric chess variant if you like to; just make the text file, I suppose.
16:46:53  zzo38: where do you keep all your chess variants so that people looking for chess variants can find them?
16:56:11  Many of them I just wrote on paper and haven't put it into the computer.
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17:19:14  Dimension X seems like a pretty fun variant
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19:13:14  I found yet another place with digital versions of the ed. Iványi ''Algorithms of informatics'' book. 
19:13:24  http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/tamop425/0046_algorithms_of_informatics_volume1/adatok.html http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/tamop425/0046_algorithms_of_informatics_volume2/adatok.html http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/tamop425/0046_algorithms_of_informatics_volume3/adatok.html
19:13:40  these are probably the latest English versions, but the formatting doesn't seem to be so great
19:16:20  Do you know why the border of the CGA picture is not uniform? Is it supposed to be like that?
19:16:48  zzo38: maybe you have the sync signals in it?
19:18:03  b_jonas: I thought I made it so that the duration of the sync signals does not output any pixels, and only marks from one scanline to the next one.
19:21:50  But, maybe I did it wrong?
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19:33:02  or you're passing the signal through a noisy analog cable
19:33:15  or something is changing the border color within a frame
19:33:32  I looked at the source-codes of the program "bdftopcf" but it doesn't actually have the implementation of the format; it seem to call other library to do that.
19:34:56  b_jonas: I implemented it entirely by software emulation, so that can't be the problem.
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21:20:39  Huh. "System peripheral: Intel Corporation Skylake Gaussian Mixture Model".
21:20:49  Wonder what that's all about.
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22:15:14  https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jece/2013/129589/ perhaps
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23:09:26  There's also https://sigport.org/documents/implementation-efficient-low-power-deep-neural-networks-next-generation-intel-client https://sigport.org/sites/default/files/docs/PosterFinal.pdf
23:10:01  Not much documentation, but I guess it's only meant to be used via Intel's SDK thingummies.
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23:53:13  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Truttle1 *  New user account

2017-10-31:

00:01:20  [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53313&oldid=53267 * Truttle1 * (+267) /* Introductions */
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01:46:19  [wiki] [[SMATINY]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53314&oldid=31904 * Rottytooth * (-13) /* External resources */ had old link
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08:30:49  Happy programmer christmas
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11:21:52  fungot: nostril.
11:21:52  boily: could we schedule more out of an input cost basis for the charge to the will of the attached to the four ( 4) on dwr's power purchase and sale of power, to create the need to: call today
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14:12:05  [wiki] [[SMATINY]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53315&oldid=53314 * Oerjan * (+30) /* External resources */ Those aren't very external and the archive has moved
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19:34:59 <\oren\> Listening to 猫しCorp. when suddenly I hear a familiar voice https://youtu.be/huctiWGZkt8?t=19m36s
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22:12:25  What are the values of resistors R3, R5, R6, R7, R8, R9, and R10, of PC CGA schematics?
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22:21:57  fungot: spooky pumpkin.
22:21:58  boily: ( in the from a free deluxe, which the power of the option of going the opposite of what to do."
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23:57:39  spoopoily
23:58:54  QUINTHELLOPIA!