< 1510099782 0 :TanukiNoKintama!~TanukiNoK@c-68-39-92-120.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510099924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510100599 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510100633 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1510100633 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1510100875 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1510100892 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgnhxmcucctcjoah JOIN :#esoteric < 1510101080 0 :TanukiNoKintama!~TanukiNoK@c-68-39-92-120.hsd1.in.comcast.net PART #esoteric : < 1510101479 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my condolences with the horrible demise of your polyglot challenge hth < 1510101683 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it ended? < 1510101698 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing so dignified < 1510101729 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone found a language that I am now considering putting on the wiki only to slap Category:Shameful on it. < 1510101745 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1510101751 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you get the bad with the good < 1510101791 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also just put a snark in a comment
< 1510101809 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hwat language was that? < 1510101822 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that a language like that would have a censored name < 1510101827 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that might be deleted i guess - PPCG is unpredictable. < 1510101828 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it doesn't and it was just censored in the post? < 1510101838 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in the title, actually < 1510101845 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: "Cockfuck" < 1510101849 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1510101852 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Exchange's rules about esolang names with "fuck" in are that they should be censored in question titles but not elsewhere < 1510101996 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1510102031 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: it's basically because they don't want questions about brainfuck reaching Hot Network Questions uncensored and appearing in the sidebar pretty much everywhere < 1510102036 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has happened a few times in the past < 1510102202 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1510102523 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510102596 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510102825 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1510102904 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you quit ppcg alex? < 1510103102 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always think "ppcg" stands for "planet pooch" something < 1510103146 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ysaclist 67 < 1510103147 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ysaclist 67: boily shachaf < 1510103249 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1510103257 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever ppcged? < 1510103280 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf. tdh. < 1510103489 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the other alex hth < 1510103504 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other alexes?!?!??!!! < 1510103527 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: was that directed at me? I don't normally use realnames on IRC because a) they can be ambiguous and b) they don't ping < 1510103527 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510103539 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510103573 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i didnt want to ping you if you were busy < 1510103582 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i forgot it was ambiguous < 1510103603 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm really busy I just don't respond to the ping until later (or just close IRC) < 1510103711 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really we need a golfing site that's a) suitable for in-depth problems (unlike anagolf) and b) not evil (unlike Stack Exchange) < 1510103726 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Exchange is evil? < 1510103804 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1510103817 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I saved the rant I sent to SE when deleting my account, let me see if I did < 1510103891 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/stackexchange-resignationletter.txt < 1510103898 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to golf that to fit it into the character limit, too :-( < 1510103915 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily. < 1510103925 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they gave a generic reply to it that implied that they didn't actually read what I'd said, and presumably was a stock response worded to sound sympathetic < 1510103958 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i stack response < 1510104029 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be useful to get that text to someone there who would actually read it? < 1510104138 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have to want to do something about it < 1510104154 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the Stack Exchange higher-ups have decided to mostly focus on Stack Overflow rather than the exchange more generally < 1510104164 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly to make it into a jobs site as that's how they make their money < 1510104291 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPCG has done a good job at making a usable golfing site, but it's mostly via using half the site features in ways they weren't intended to be used (and in some cases are explicitly not intended to be used) < 1510104371 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to make a better golfing site? < 1510104395 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i agree that se is terrible for code golf, i dont agree that all the incentives are wrong for proper q+a. they do it better than quora. moderation is screwed up but again, better than quora. < 1510104397 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, I'd like to but I doubt I'd complete it in a reasonable length of time < 1510104434 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I've tried using Stack Overflow to a small extent; I got a useful answer ("what you're trying to do is probably impossible") as a comment and an incorrect answer as an answer which I couldn't downvote because my account was too new < 1510104434 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: writr < 1510104453 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had a better time answering questsions on Stack Overflow than asking them. < 1510104471 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: write up a design goals document for an ideal code golf site < 1510104476 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with answering questions is that it's hard to overtake an existing answer even if it's correct < 1510104484 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*even if it's incorrect < 1510104523 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. it could benefit from a medium-style upvote system < 1510104543 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "accepted answers" gets around that to some extent. < 1510104580 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accepted answers can be fairly random < 1510104613 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next issue is, is Stack Overflow meant to be an FAQ site (i.e. compiling the answers to commonly asked questions for the benefit of everyone), or a "get an answer" site (i.e. aiming for an answer that helps the OP in particular)? < 1510104624 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is, it doesn't know, and the site documentation is contradictory on the matter < 1510104628 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be. but at least there is more control over them < 1510104653 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPCG would benefit from having the accepted answer feature disabled altogether, although that may not be true for things like Stack Overflow < 1510104676 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always assumed it was more the latter because it's focus on long carefully worded questions < 1510104705 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about that design goals document < 1510104717 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think about it < 1510104725 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought about it in the past but I can't remember all my conclusions < 1510104736 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't you complete it in a reasonable length of time? < 1510104802 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I haven't really been able to do anything major for months, apart from in some cases my day job < 1510104849 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1510104856 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we're in the same boat. < 1510105015 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a good idea of what a good code golf site would be like? < 1510105044 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than average, I guess; I'm not sure about good < 1510105062 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one thing you have to make a choice about is whether you allow people to compete in languages the site doesn't know about < 1510105093 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal here would probably be "no, but there's an easy / lightweight way to teach the site about a new language" < 1510105318 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, I also had the idea that the CAPTCHA would be submitting a competitive solution to a recently submitted problem < 1510105333 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that most legitimate users should be able to do but most spammers won't be able to, even human spammers < 1510105362 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is similar to the CAPTCHA-equivalent used by some gaming servers for 1v1 games, which require you to win a ranked game) < 1510105691 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should write up your thoughts about how the site would work somewhere. < 1510105716 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1510105724 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to write them down first, though! < 1510106322 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510106395 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510106697 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510106770 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510107527 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1510108112 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510108184 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510108574 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: HISTORICAL CHICKEN < 1510110077 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saved ais523's answer's from last time this topic came up < 1510110090 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1510110102 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin them somewhere? it'd help me avoid having to remember them < 1510110274 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Are you going to make the website? < 1510110282 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like reading design documents, so when people refuse to make them I console myself with lists of features < 1510110348 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://pastebin.com/V4sHNvy6 < 1510110362 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily I like /writing/ design documents < 1510110365 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you just want one of those, there's a chance :-) < 1510110423 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Readable link: https://pastebin.com/raw/V4sHNvy6 < 1510110461 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgnhxmcucctcjoah QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1510110480 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try making a site, but because I've never done more than individual web pages < 1510110576 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look like I accidentally a clause < 1510110578 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday I cloned someone's website program in a few hours because the only way it worked was by sending information to the server. < 1510110603 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: that's probably a bad idea because something like this is a) very stateful (therefore easy to get wrong) and b) heavily dependent on sandboxing < 1510110616 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPCG has no sandboxing < 1510110629 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, another thing I'd like (either as part of this or just separately) would be a site which has JavaScript impementations of a large number of languages < 1510110636 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could make a first version without running programs < 1510110649 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: actually it does (Stack Snippets), but a program runner would be a very desired feature for a golfing site < 1510110659 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on PPCG, people normally use Try It Online! < 1510110690 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should put your site at code.golf except it's taken < 1510110691 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we should teach HackEgo Jelly < 1510110697 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But golf.codes isn't < 1510110735 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Jelly, a golfing language? < 1510110738 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1510110748 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are golfing languages interesting? < 1510110754 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best general-purpose one of the non-vapourware languages < 1510110755 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :All they do is make all programs shorter. < 1510110779 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing languages are interesting because they get closer to the way you think about problems < 1510110788 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way, they're closer to natural languages than most programming languages are < 1510110803 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that describing the problem is nearly always shorter than describing how to solve it < 1510110824 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, golfing languages that use a fancy byte encoding. < 1510110829 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a way, the more expressive a language is, the better it is at being a golfing language < 1510110844 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like fancy encodings and the like are side issues, the core functionality is much more important < 1510110859 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sure, the core functionality can be interesting. < 1510110874 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most good golfing languages make significant use of higher-order constructs < 1510110994 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, now I almost want to work on The Underlambda Project again < 1510111007 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although being written in a language that doesn't currently exist doesn't help matters < 1510111050 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's intended to be a single program that's a compiler/interpreter with a very large number of esolangs as frontends and backends, i.e. it can compile a program in esolang X into esolang Y, or run it directly < 1510111066 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it's /also/ written in a language it supports, so it can translate itself into any of those languages (via quining functionality) < 1510111091 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very efficient, but lets you create an interpreter or compiler for any supported esolang in any other < 1510111105 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might also include practical languages as output formats, and maybe even subsets of them as input formats) < 1510111164 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway, this is a good example of the power of golfing languages: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/120979 < 1510111179 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just try to write something like that in C or Java or Python, it'll be much less clear what the program actually does < 1510111196 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ~h=∋ᵐ\cᵐ= is close to a direct description of the problem < 1510111452 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where pi_10 < 1510111452 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] < 1510111454 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where e_10 < 1510111454 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]] < 1510111493 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some pretty good golf. < 1510111505 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I saw an algorithm for computing square roots using only addition and subtraction. < 1510111520 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was surprisingly simple. < 1510111535 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the one that looks like long division? < 1510111572 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not sure. < 1510111593 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way it works is, to compute sqrt(n), you start with a=5*n, b=5 < 1510111611 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as a >= b, you set (a,b) = (a-b, b+10) < 1510111652 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, that's more of a bressenham-style algorithm, and different from what I was thinking of < 1510111657 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you set (a,b) = (100*a, floor(b/10)*100+5) < 1510111672 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an awkward way of saying you add two zeros to the end of a and you put a zero as the digit before last in b < 1510111721 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, golfing languages are normally easier to write in than practical languages for small programs < 1510111735 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're so much more expressive (and often have more builtins too) < 1510111755 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they became popular enough I'd imagine they'd take over from things like Perl for short one-line programs < 1510111777 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're normally quite bad at maintaining state / doing imperative things, though < 1510111792 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they think in terms of descriptions-of-solutions rather than the route you get there < 1510111836 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (a,b) | a >= b = (a-b, b+10) | otherwise = (100*a, (b `div` 10) * 100 + 5) in iterate f (5*2,5) !! 30 < 1510111838 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (7406673995,1414213515) < 1510111863 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of properties would make a language work well when you don't understand some of the features and you don't understand the rest of the program you're working on? < 1510111879 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (a,b) | a >= b = (a-b, b+10) | otherwise = (100*a, (b `div` 10) * 100 + 5) in map snd $ iterate f (5*2,5) < 1510111882 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,15,105,115,125,135,145,1405,1415,14105,14115,14125,14135,14145,141405,141... < 1510111883 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: you don't understand some of the language or of the program? < 1510111901 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend language features that strongly encourage encapsulation in that case, e.g. strong typing, a heavy use of small subroutines, minimal state < 1510111924 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can normally write code that's independently useful regardless of what the rest of the program actually does < 1510111946 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fwiw, I think that this is the driving force behind Java's design: writing a language which is usable by large teams of low-skilled programmers) < 1510111977 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would user-definable fancy types help? < 1510111989 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, it might depend on the details < 1510111994 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fancy? < 1510112063 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types < 1510112338 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types basically give a very strong, machine-readable specification of how a function's arguments and return value are meant to work and what the function's meant to do < 1510112353 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it'd help, except that dependently-typed languages are normally very hard to write in generally < 1510112365 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may well make them worse at everything but less worse than this, rather than better at this < 1510112561 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought was that specifying more of what you think is going on so you can be informed that you were mistaken generally helps in cases like this, but when you're wrong in an unimportant way strictness makes it more difficult to get things done < 1510113441 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :program slices should be small < 1510114518 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1510116034 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's some pretty good golf. <-- erm isn't [4..]!!n just 4+n, that doesn't seem very golfed. < 1510116087 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait Int vs. Integer < 1510116087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try it hth < 1510116101 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where pi_11 < 1510116101 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[show(foldr(\k a->20*100^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..[4,8..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]] < 1510116111 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is even more golfed but it's too slow for lambdabot to evaluate. < 1510120205 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1510120798 0 :carlos!a02790d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.39.144.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510122045 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-reawqjemhzvcgwcr JOIN :#esoteric < 1510122071 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510122516 0 :potato44!7a945e65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.148.94.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510123890 0 :carlos!a02790d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.39.144.215 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1510124594 0 :potato44!7a945e65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.148.94.101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1510126595 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510127170 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510131392 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1510132825 0 :Warrigal!~tswett@192.241.237.138 QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1510132952 0 :Warrigal!~tswett@192.241.237.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510133947 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-reawqjemhzvcgwcr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1510134204 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-mnjvatxaflevqfwj QUIT :*.net *.split < 1510134204 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :*.net *.split < 1510134399 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-gbdjgiaumqmvxjcb JOIN :#esoteric < 1510134444 0 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1510134541 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric < 1510135093 0 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1510136082 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1510140789 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510141761 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1510141977 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: COLLECTION CHICKEN < 1510145356 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1510145598 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510148408 0 :Guest32754!~averythom@177.22.127.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510149189 0 :Guest32754!~averythom@177.22.127.194 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510150936 0 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@2602:304:b3be:eab0:1da7:7847:34e7:a64f JOIN :#esoteric < 1510152373 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510154168 0 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@2602:304:b3be:eab0:1da7:7847:34e7:a64f QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151029151421] < 1510154496 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1510154553 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510155106 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510155560 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510156486 0 :Guest29637!~Vorpal@c83-254-186-251.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1510156486 0 :Guest29637!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1510156491 0 :Guest29637!?@? NICK :Vorpal < 1510157587 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1510160928 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510163125 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1510163509 0 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1510163653 0 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host < 1510163653 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric < 1510166153 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1510166620 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1510166693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1510166693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host < 1510166693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1510167059 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1510170845 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1510170852 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:tanea//Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. \ photograph//A photograph is a device for creating photograms. \ monads//Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. \ beethoven's ninth symphony//Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files. \ entryms < 1510170858 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1510170859 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:g//ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: < 1510170940 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg g < 1510170949 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1510170953 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1510170958 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg entrymsg < 1510170966 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9730:2016-11-18 slwd entrymsg//s,wiki,, \ 8218:2016-05-30 learn ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: < 1510170997 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART #esoteric : < 1510170997 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1510172077 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1510172128 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1510172292 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tanea < 1510172294 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. < 1510172320 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone who knows how these things work do the slashwisdom for /Yorj/Cambridgf/ < 1510172335 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or Cambridgd < 1510172359 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :slwd tanea//s/Yorj/Cambridgd/ < 1510172362 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd tanea//s/Yorj/Cambridgd/ < 1510172364 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanea//Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Cambridgd. < 1510172369 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e++ < 1510172407 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess boily would've used ssYorjsCambridgds < 1510172414 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Yorj like "The Dukc of Yorj"? < 1510172435 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork, quite possibly < 1510172468 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the old Yorj that New Yorj is named after? < 1510172480 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( How's life on Cambridge? ) < 1510172481 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're the same Yorj < 1510172497 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(supplementive rather than alternative) < 1510172508 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I like my job but I'm not a huge fan of the city < 1510172526 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels a lot bigger than York did, and I don't really know many people < 1510172690 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Maybe you should move to an even bigger city < 1510172701 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then move back to Cambridge and it'll feel small by comparison. < 1510172730 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to ICFP 2018? < 1510172737 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I don't know yet < 1510172739 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that one's in Missouri. < 1510172744 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd certainly like to < 1510172755 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, move to bustling Reykjavik < 1510172827 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend moving from York to New York < 1510172842 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, sadly I've left York now so I'll have to move to New Cambridge instead < 1510172843 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nev Yorj < 1510172870 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like New York, I was there a couple of weeks ago. < 1510172915 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that the rent is too damn high < 1510173003 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could move to the Bronx. < 1510173107 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was walking in the street there and saw 2br apartments selling for <$400k. I was surprised. < 1510173127 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's better than I got in rural idaho < 1510173141 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait "k" < 1510173163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that's pretty expensive for rural Idaho. < 1510173187 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a touch < 1510173279 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's in NY, and cheaper than anything around here. < 1510173315 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess sometimes apartments that you "buy" have high HOA fees which makes the price kind of meaningless. < 1510175155 0 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-088-076-098-100.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1510175228 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-064-057-072.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510175277 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-064-057-072.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510176755 0 :vifino!~vifino@tty.sh QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1510176800 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :o o o o < 1510177066 0 :vifino!~vifino@tty.sh JOIN :#esoteric < 1510177815 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btlkewupebaklyto JOIN :#esoteric < 1510178476 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* 10New user account < 1510178922 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53359&oldid=53313 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+149) 10Introduced myself < 1510178973 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53360&oldid=53359 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+107) 10signed < 1510179842 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Tell me something about gnomes? < 1510179843 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hunter: what of the heavens, as a matter of course, but it will take you away from the third age a troll-race not before seen appeared in paris at just about the ground, he soon turned it into his sleeves. the stone sunk into his mouth and jaws were completely hidden, and most corrosive agents, and burn all the primates, as if it still seems to have been born to command the undead, has ever managed to cheat him out of i < 1510179876 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: That was pretty incoherent, even for you. < 1510179876 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: always sweep the floor. an elf would smell its rancid stench at ten metres distance. < 1510179883 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better. < 1510180397 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1510180406 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1510180406 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1510180469 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that'd have the best chance re gnomes. < 1510180520 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should make a good golf site for ais523 < 1510180547 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not until they write down & up the things that make up a good golf site. (Also not after that either.) < 1510182199 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1510182828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1510183122 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're a great web developer < 1510183124 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You made `edit < 1510183133 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`edit bin/edit < 1510183134 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/edit < 1510183184 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/edit//s/http/https/g < 1510183186 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/edit//#!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ \ if len(sys.argv) < 2: \ sys.exit('httpss://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/') \ \ f = os.path.realpath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|ignore$|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is not editable.") \ print 'httpss://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/' < 1510183199 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1510183212 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1510183213 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1510183238 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the version in there was synced a long time ago < 1510183277 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 months?! < 1510184175 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't use `edit much. < 1510184197 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I think the zjoust website is much more of a web-development showcase. < 1510185558 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-098-100.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric