< 1511396088 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/7ekwea/un3_vanilla_mythic_infinity_elemental/ < 1511396282 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53401 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+3836) 10This specification is... mostly complete. I think. < 1511396441 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53402&oldid=52824 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+171) 10Clearing up a few things. < 1511396518 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53403&oldid=53402 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+0) 10 < 1511397115 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-gbdjgiaumqmvxjcb QUIT :Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite! < 1511397297 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511397387 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so the choices here are < 1511397411 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) buy bottled water from a vending machine at an exorbitant price (£1.50 for what I think was a 75cl bottle, not sure on the exact size) < 1511397438 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) use a water fountain that's designed for wob_jonas-style use, or possibly filling up bottles of your own < 1511397473 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it emits water straight downwards; I find the ones that shoot water upwards at an angle much more convenient because you can drink from the stream with your head in a sensible position < 1511397488 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c) go down to the surrounding city streets and find somewhere which sells water < 1511397508 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I work at a university and thus there is a large concentration of students in the area, c) is fairly easy when it's as early as half past midnight < 1511397608 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d) origami out a cup from some stray paper, use it to drink from the fountain. < 1511397656 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xccdfgtuighcqsag JOIN :#esoteric < 1511397668 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, Copy paper holds water surprisingly well (I mean, not *well* but still), if you fold it right. < 1511397682 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/C/c/ keep typoing. < 1511397692 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or rather insufficiently editing.) < 1511397707 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently in a very communal area because my ID card is malfunctioning / too old and won't let me into any of the me-specific areas < 1511397717 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in places like this, they have to charge for things like paper in order to prevent buse < 1511397718 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*abuse < 1511398165 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1511398249 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have bottles of my own stored at home normally < 1511398284 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often have a supply of bottles but can't easily transport them < 1511398285 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can fill containers other than water < 1511398286 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1511398289 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :containers other than bottles < 1511398297 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I used step c) and the bottle is still here < 1511398300 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can just refill it < 1511398302 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, method c) < 1511398314 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here if water is out for more than about four hours, there's usually a water tank vehicle brought to the street < 1511398347 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-229.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511398358 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every supermarket sells bottled water here, so it's just a matter of bringing a six-pack of 1.5 liter bottles home from the closest one usually < 1511398394 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here as well < 1511398398 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered taking some water with me < 1511398405 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but decided to travel light, as I knew there'd be options < 1511398411 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's where I got this bottle of water from, a supermarket) < 1511398414 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can lend you some but you'd have to walk like 1500 kilometers for it < 1511398421 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, it was a bit smaller than the typical supermarket < 1511398439 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, by the time I walk 1500km the water supply is likely to be fully working again :-P < 1511398504 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Knight of the Kitchen Sink is my favorite card from Unstable < 1511398606 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Vaporkin < 1511398609 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaporkin \ 1U \ Creature -- Elemental \ 2/1 \ Flying \ Vaporkin can block only creatures with flying. \ THS-C, CN2-C < 1511398621 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Novellamental is a reprint of this under a different name < 1511398638 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, so it was a funcitonal reprint < 1511398643 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53404&oldid=53401 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+4) 10 < 1511398666 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. Welking Tern and Tattered Hunter are two cards in modern that are similar but have different creature types < 1511398768 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/1 high flying for 1U doesn't seem like that good a card, I assume it's for Limited purposes < 1511398786 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it's comparable to 2/1 flying for most typical uses < 1511398800 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's not very good in constructed < 1511398804 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 2/1 doesn't make for a great blocker, especially against ground-based creatures which you can probably block more usefully with something else < 1511398805 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a problem < 1511398845 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/1 for W has been playable in some formats in the past < 1511398863 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sure! < 1511398899 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elite Vanguard. I even have one of those. < 1511398924 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name savannah lions < 1511398925 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Savannah Lions \ W \ Creature -- Cat \ 2/1 \ A-R, B-R, U-R, RV-R, 4E-R, 8ED-R, 9ED-R, ME4-U < 1511398934 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the original, and was much better back then because its competition was less good < 1511398937 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the old Savannah Lions, and a few newer cards < 1511398939 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1511398949 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you can even get a 2/1 for W with advantages < 1511398965 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/1 for 1W seems to be a fairly common line for upside cards nowadays < 1511398970 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a hatebear but more agressive < 1511398978 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it's probably not good enough? < 1511398987 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two mana normally gets you a 3/3 with minor upside if what you want is a combat creature < 1511399591 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-229.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1511399593 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, you're right, green used to be able to untap creatures in older sets. I didn't know. < 1511399597 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Vitalize < 1511399598 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vitalize \ G \ Instant \ Untap all creatures you control. \ WL-C, 6E-C < 1511399619 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have known, such abilities appear in several old cards, and not only very rare ones < 1511399951 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53405&oldid=53404 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-12) 10 < 1511400152 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-229.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511400303 0 :wob_jonas!b03f18ff@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.255 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1511401220 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53406&oldid=53405 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-4) 10 < 1511401332 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53407&oldid=53406 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-30) 10 < 1511401455 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hellochaf. just watched the pumpkin pie. < 1511401519 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to make the cardboard tube call
< 1511401707 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511402069 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53408&oldid=53407 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+325) 10Added pointer arithmetic. < 1511402085 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53409&oldid=53408 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1) 10 < 1511402126 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53410&oldid=53409 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1) 10 < 1511402406 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-229.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1511402437 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53411&oldid=53410 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-16) 10 < 1511402978 0 :Cale_!~cale@24.114.75.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511403104 0 :Cale__!~cale@24.114.75.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511403420 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SECURE CHICKEN < 1511403881 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511404681 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511404865 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1511404915 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1511405851 0 :moonythedwarf!?@? NICK :FCC < 1511406917 0 :Cale__!~cale@24.114.75.56 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511406917 0 :Cale_!~cale@24.114.75.56 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511407000 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511407374 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1511407590 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511409337 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1511411527 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511413305 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fekfqfzhzovvdkbv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1511413762 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1511413924 0 :garit!~garit@188.29.165.140.threembb.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1511413924 0 :garit!~garit@188.29.165.140.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Changing host < 1511413924 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit JOIN :#esoteric < 1511413991 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511414657 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a player regenerate from being destroyed? < 1511414657 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Note there is no current way to do that. Maybe in a future Un- set. < 1511414867 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:a562:4e24:daf4:17ad JOIN :#esoteric < 1511416325 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1511417111 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1511418965 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511419481 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of you ever heard of Zombie? < 1511420271 0 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511420363 0 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@ic2.hellomouse.cf JOIN :#esoteric < 1511420387 0 :Bowserinator!?@? NICK :Guest80236 < 1511421141 0 :friendlyGoat!~friendlyG@50-50-136-197.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net PART #esoteric : < 1511422134 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1511423104 0 :FCC!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1511424135 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1511424299 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53412&oldid=53411 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+12) 10 < 1511424322 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1511424352 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1511424637 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511424814 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53413&oldid=53412 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-7) 10 < 1511425087 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1511425306 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1511425713 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1511425716 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511425754 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511425933 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1511426012 0 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1511426844 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:60f4:1e2f:678a:8f80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511428389 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511428418 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1511429413 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1511429910 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511431790 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:60f4:1e2f:678a:8f80 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511432322 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gibibyte < 1511432328 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gibibyte? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1511432351 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1511432370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cook anything delicious lately? < 1511432381 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't been cooking much :( < 1511432463 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do need to cook more < 1511432516 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what about baking? < 1511432528 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: same problem sadly < 1511432548 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is baking not a type of cooking? < 1511432559 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: not needing sounds like you have a superior solution though, as opposed to "not being able to" for example < 1511432578 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :thusly, may I inquire what the superior solution is? < 1511432601 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One trick is to apply economic pressure to get others to cook food for you. < 1511432649 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that is a good one. E might be married and have a partner who prefers to cook though. That is another option < 1511432709 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I misread you < 1511432719 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I do need to cook more" as " I do not need to cook any more" < 1511432722 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: sorry < 1511432741 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that makes more sense. < 1511432764 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1511432799 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah! Sorry for the confusion < 1511432829 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the confusion was entirely on my side, no need for you to be sorry < 1511432859 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, *I'm* sorry for the confusion. < 1511432870 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm sorry for you being sorry < 1511432938 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically living on cereal, supermarket lunchtime meal deals, and microwave pasta ready meals < 1511432944 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1511432993 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... a lot better than a couple of years ago when I wasn't even managing that < 1511433004 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh no < 1511433007 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like scow < 1511433071 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what does scow mean in this context. googling for a definition gave me "a large flat-bottomed boat with broad square ends used chiefly for transporting bulk material (such as ore, sand, or refuse)" which I suspect is not what you meant < 1511433084 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it in a related sense. < 1511433092 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The etymology is "garbage scow" < 1511433103 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the scow of X" means something like "the worst specimen of X" < 1511433108 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scow < 1511433109 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. < 1511433123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: that makes no sense tdnh < 1511433142 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1 GiB equals 230 bytes or 1,073,741,824 GB, or approximately 7% larger than the gigabit. < 1511433145 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1511433151 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a bit like cockney rhyme then? In that you need to know some hidden layers of association in between < 1511433160 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from a webhosting company's website) < 1511433174 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I would personally go for some other hosting company < 1511433346 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like cloudatcost? < 1511433470 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no idea who they are < 1511435473 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think they're the wiki's host, which have a problem with reliability < 1511436221 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1511436233 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: who is the admin of the wiki? maybe we could host it elsewhere? < 1511436306 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my understanding is that that's being looked into < 1511436412 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I own a VPS, so do fizzie. I would assume there are more of us as well who could host it. Might need to upgrade to a bigger plan for bandwidth or storage, but I kind of doubt our wiki has that much traffic < 1511436466 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need to install php and possibly mysql though. Think I only have postgresql on that VPS < 1511436468 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Storage is I think the key issue < 1511436497 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how much does it use for the wiki? Shouldn't be more than a couple of GB I would assume? < 1511436519 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honstly I don't know < 1511436531 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is the current admin but I think Gregor has something to do with it as well? < 1511436536 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1511436941 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511437006 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Funding < 1511437103 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egress traffic is (IIRC) in the order of 100G/month, and we've always run it on a system with 2G of RAM, not sure how much smaller it'd fit on. < 1511437132 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@104-50-90-48.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511437134 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's wrong with making a profit? < 1511437142 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, with having a surplus. < 1511437230 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: okay, my VPS is also 2 GB, and IIRC I have either 500 GB or 1 TB traffic / month available to me, not sure about yours < 1511437247 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:a562:4e24:daf4:17ad QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1511437265 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my point was, if some of us already have VPSes, maybe there is some with spare capacity < 1511437274 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you confident that it'll cost <$100/year all in? < 1511437345 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If we go with one of the less mainstream options, I don't see why not. < 1511437378 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with a mainstream option? < 1511437427 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we should be able to run on the smallest of even a mainstream option like linode from what I can tell < 1511437441 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 5 USD per month, so it will fit in less than 100 USD without issueds < 1511437443 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :issues* < 1511437444 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.linode.com/pricing < 1511437463 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear Linode is scow. < 1511437468 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I use them myself. < 1511437477 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm a little suspicious about 1G of RAM, and the 2GB instance is already $120/year. < 1511437480 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had a mostly trouble free experience with their london data center the last few years, and the times I had issues their support was quick and helpful < 1511437501 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They lost my password at least twice. < 1511437528 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: huh thought I had their smallest option but maybe not, htop says I have 2 GB RAM. Or 1.83 rather < 1511437542 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll log in and check < 1511437632 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using DigitalOcean, and they just added a new $15/month tier with 3GB of RAM. I think I guesstimated something like $25-30/month for Amazon/Google clouds (the latter has the business-only issue). < 1511437686 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, the cheapo option would be https://www.hostens.com/vps-hosting/#hosting__plan__group-tab-vps who have a €3.99/month plan (quarterly billing, 2G RAM, KVM) and pretty reasonable user reviews around the webs. < 1511437686 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we used Google Cloud US? < 1511437692 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example by having Gregor run it. < 1511437727 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly dubious of cheapo options. < 1511437727 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what sense is using Google Cloud US having me run it X-D < 1511437738 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1511437739 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1511437741 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of would prefer for the person looking after the MediaWiki installation to be the same person looking after the VPS, it's been a little inconvenient to have to bother someone every time some sort of control panel action is needed. < 1511437756 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it works, but it makes me feel bad. < 1511437768 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1511437771 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can control panel access not be given? I don't know how these things work. < 1511437796 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not using CaC's amazing service. < 1511437820 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah I have the 2 GB variant < 1511437851 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should use Microsoft Azure < 1511437853 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :with linode you can create users, and either give them full or restricted access. I don't know how fine grained that is < 1511437941 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more core point here is that I was just donating the CaC server because I had it spare. It was spare because CaC is kiiiiinda trash. However, CaC continues to be kinda trash, and it'd be good to move off of it. I don't have other servers free, or any particular reason to be the server admin. < 1511437942 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/accounts-and-passwords#setting-permissions < 1511437945 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable < 1511437999 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be clear about how crap CaC is, here's my latest support ticket on my other CaC account: < 1511438001 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not want to run the server full time, I too often go away from the internet for long stretches to keep an eye on it all the time < 1511438012 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :« After a few days of my servers being inaccessible and nonfunctional, today they simply don't exist. The panel claims "install failed" for all four, when they're not new servers, and have been running for months or, in one case, years.» < 1511438024 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CaC's response? «This ticket has been closed due to inactivity.» < 1511438028 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1511438035 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit JOIN :#esoteric < 1511438037 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit QUIT :Excess Flood < 1511438060 0 :garit!~garit@188.29.164.83.threembb.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1511438060 0 :garit!~garit@188.29.164.83.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Changing host < 1511438060 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit JOIN :#esoteric < 1511438142 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : They lost my password at least twice. <-- by the way, how do you mean? Lost the hash of your password in their user db?? < 1511438172 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does someone (you?) have database and configuration backups of the wiki? < 1511438177 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a VPS for my own purposes, but it's tiny (512M of RAM), and anyway personally I'd not share it with the wiki. If we want to keep the wiki-admin == VPS-admin equality (I'm at least around enough, probably), I might just go ahead and pick the cheapo option and trust there's enough interest to cover that (relatively tiny) amount. Just not sure what's the best way to go around it. < 1511438192 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I believe I have backups of everything. < 1511438204 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've got weekly backups here as well of everything wiki-relevant. < 1511438213 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, in case d fails < 1511438222 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think so. Or at leat told me to change my password for some reason. < 1511438230 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember they lost password hashes at least once. < 1511438242 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there's also some other people downloading the public dump, which has all the articles but not the users & suchlike. < 1511438246 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: huh < 1511438321 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directories I have backed up nightly: /etc/apt /var/www/html /home /etc/nginx /etc/php5 /var/lib/mysql < 1511438327 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I should be backing up something else, tell me. < 1511438330 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: couldn't it just run as a couple of docker image or such? < 1511438355 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: probably /var/lib/apt, more interesting than /etc/apt < 1511438365 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the cheapo option much better than AWS? < 1511438374 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :since /var/lib/apt contains the installed package database < 1511438398 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it is probably not better, might be cheaper though ;P < 1511438466 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could add /srv/esolangs.org for the wiki. < 1511438517 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I backup /etc/apt and selections. You can mostly reproduce /var/lib/apt from selections, albeit a newer install. < 1511438570 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's probably not *better*. But a t2.small instance already has a base cost of $16.84/month, plus $8.91/month for 100G of "AWS Data Transfer Out". < 1511438574 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a mess apt and apt-like systems are. < 1511438603 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How dare you insult our lord and true king Debian. < 1511438637 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I think this is entirely a circumstance to cheap out on. < 1511438671 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of cheap VPS services, many of which are just fine. < 1511438693 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that I use and has literally had 100% uptime in the year I've been using it emailed me this sale: https://hostslick.com/cart.php?a=add&pid=177 < 1511438705 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$35/yr is a bit better than $25/mo < 1511438739 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. The €3.99/month option had pretty good reviews (re support & so on) as well, and feels low enough that I think even without any sort of structured money-collection system I might get enough ad-hoc donations to cover it. < 1511438752 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about option (e) fizzie pays for an expensive option out of pocket < 1511438761 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or option (f) fizzie gets Google to pay for it < 1511438776 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or just host it while they're at it) < 1511438790 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just stick it on a U. Waterloo server. I really doubt anybody would notice ;) < 1511438795 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I won't actually do this) < 1511438805 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technically Google has an infinite number of machines, so it wouldn't cost them anything.) < 1511438854 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: more seriously though, is there no option as a google employee to get a cheaper price for their cloud offers? < 1511438857 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the option (f)(ii), which is me paying half of it and getting Google to gift-match the rest, but that'd (a) involve setting up a separate non-profit to get to go/give, and (b) would really feel like trickery to me. < 1511438893 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fizzie has no option at all to get the cloud offers at any price < 1511438912 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because you need to be a business? < 1511438914 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1511438927 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At some point there was a $30/month or so Cloud credit voucher dealie, but it's not really an option with the silliness with the Google Cloud and EU and VAT thing. < 1511438945 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1511438958 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's not really guaranteed to run forever. < 1511438974 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes I saw something strange about VAT when logging into linode just now. I wonder what that is about and how it will affect me < 1511438989 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, one thing I could probably leverage Google for would be to stick the esowiki backup directory (encrypted) onto Drive. As it is, it's saved on three hard disks here locally, but the offsite backup is only updated once a year or so. < 1511439000 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's how often I visit Finland, where our bank safety deposit box is.) < 1511439012 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much Drive space do you have? < 1511439017 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :65G, I think. < 1511439041 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 1TB but I think it'll be expiring soon. < 1511439055 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1511439060 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have dropbox instead of drive. Better linux client < 1511439066 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, any linux client < 1511439084 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got the regular 15G freebie quota and a +50G bonus. < 1511439139 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/odeke-em/drive has worked for me just fine. < 1511439161 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: DESIGN CHICKEN < 1511439173 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't really want automatic syncing anyway.) < 1511439179 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm they asked for VAT number, I don't think I have that unless I have a company? < 1511439244 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I can't even begin to imagine why people are considering Google Cloud or Amazon or what have you. We have a small wiki. It needs a dinky server. Cloud servers are designed—and priced—for scalability UP, not scalability DOWN. < 1511439260 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1511439288 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie wants to serve 5TB < 1511439294 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my point here was: do any of us who already have VPSes have spare capacity that would benefit this? < 1511439297 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: per second < 1511439351 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say I do on my VPS, but no I don't have time to be full time admin. < 1511439557 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1511439803 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if you developed a commercial code golf site with ais523? < 1511439808 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can use Google Cloud. < 1511439833 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I doubt it would be very successful as a commercial thing < 1511439850 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't need to be successful to be a "business purpose". < 1511439863 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably just do the "get a dinky server and get some ad-hoc money" option, and then afterwards consider setting up a donate button via some service if that feels appropriate. < 1511439872 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I did actually for reals look at the UK rules for charities, and if you opt for one of the forms that don't have a corporate structure (isn't a legal person and can't do contracts, but can own money & get tax benefits) it's not entirely impossible proposition. < 1511439889 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1511439895 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The biggest blockers are that I would probably need 1-2 other UK people as co-trustees (and possibly meet them physically once a year, that wasn't entirely clear), and the definition of "charitable purposes", while *probably* covering the wiki, might be a little hard to extend to other adjacent things, like #esoteric IRC bots. < 1511439918 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sell out, man < 1511439927 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does the server run something other than the wiki? < 1511439927 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you want to rake in the big esobucks < 1511439939 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc bots run elsewhere don't they? < 1511439946 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HackEgo runs on it as well. < 1511439949 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They run at the same place. < 1511439954 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo even gives wiki edit notifications < 1511439977 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's done over UDP, they don't *need* to run on the same system. < 1511439997 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: TCP surely? < 1511440001 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, UDP. < 1511440006 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1511440007 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, don't ask me, that's how MediaWiki does it. < 1511440028 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK charities aren't eligible for US tax deduction anyway < 1511440033 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently? < 1511440060 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Probably not. But they're eligible for UK Gift Aid for any UK donations. < 1511440068 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyway, all you would need is something able to run a couple of docker images right? mysql, nginx and hackego < 1511440076 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, docker < 1511440079 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm out < 1511440085 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so some other container solution then < 1511440117 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway what do you have against containers in general or docker specifically? < 1511440122 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespaces... good... containers... bad :P < 1511440133 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is complexity. < 1511440138 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Containers are fine, but Docker is not < 1511440156 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe Docker is popular enough that I should give up and use it < 1511440159 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: okay, I haven't used other solutions like rkt, so I can't really compare them < 1511440180 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably better if you build your Docker images with bazel or something instead of Dockerfiles. < 1511440189 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you run them with Kubernetes or something. < 1511440205 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what use I have made of docker have been highly specialized and unconventional at work to simulate large number of embedded systems hammering on another embedded system. < 1511440280 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should sleep. < 1511440282 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right, Dockerfile syntax is a bit weird. < 1511440298 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax is not really the issue. < 1511440334 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyway you might get sporadically reoccurring donations from me for the wiki. Don't expect anything monthly though. < 1511440339 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh? < 1511440377 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The monthly costs are likely to be so small, any sort of transaction costs would probably eat into them anyway. < 1511440389 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near-term, I think I'll just reply to the (two) comments on the talk page on the wiki and see where that goes. < 1511440418 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdvv6lcpljuq7d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1511440438 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The charity thing *is* real overkill, it just feels so tempting since (if I'm paying for any of it) the UK tax thing would be basically free money. (But it also feels like dubious tax dodging.) < 1511440450 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think I really need to amble to work at this point. < 1511440519 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1511440648 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why php5? (based on your backup paths). Isn't that ancient? < 1511441346 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apparently it isn't. there was no php6 < 1511442472 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@slashem.me QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1511442713 0 :Elronnd!~earenndil@slashem.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1511446243 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511446527 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511447681 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1511448512 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1511449447 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :php5 is both ancient and new ;) < 1511449744 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah I saw < 1511451924 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511454218 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ytqiqrqbiaxampxu JOIN :#esoteric < 1511454521 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8564:588d:30c9:8962:caa7:d034 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511454526 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8564:588d:30c9:8962:caa7:d034 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511454581 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8564:588d:5576:897a:df00:febe JOIN :#esoteric < 1511455931 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1511455932 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Ello. < 1511455979 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Basicfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53414&oldid=53413 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+152) 10 < 1511456339 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1511457743 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1511460401 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8564:588d:5576:897a:df00:febe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511460448 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8564:588d:5576:897a:df00:febe JOIN :#esoteric < 1511460452 0 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8564:588d:5576:897a:df00:febe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511462119 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1511462455 0 :watered!~water@2405:204:54a9:4e22:42f7:a1c8:b1d5:9a49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1511464083 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1511464136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1511464269 0 :garit!~garit@188.29.165.25.threembb.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1511464269 0 :garit!~garit@188.29.165.25.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Changing host < 1511464269 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit JOIN :#esoteric < 1511464284 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1511464923 0 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri: What do you think of basicfuck? < 1511465435 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511465942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1511466097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1511466464 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think basicfuck is very similar to clearBF. < 1511466700 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511466710 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re Gregor telling about CaC handling the server on which the esowiki is running: ouch. that sucks. < 1511466754 0 :Elronnd!~earenndil@slashem.me PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ð looks interesting < 1511466763 0 :Elronnd!~earenndil@slashem.me PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an implementation? < 1511466777 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Gregor: when you say you have backups of everything, is that only the esowiki, or also HackEgo? < 1511466893 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I separately have the hackego chroot backed up. < 1511466898 0 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also nightly. < 1511466913 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of those hosting options, which ones don't have a clause where if you use more network traffic than is in your plan, then you must pay for the extra data (as opposed to them limiting your internet bandwidth to very low or zero when you reach the data limit)? < 1511466952 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because I have the impression that some cheap hosting options simply want a few of the users to trip up and accidentally go over the network quota and get their actual income from that, rather than the nominal monthly plans. < 1511466963 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: thanks < 1511467206 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Translator is my favorite vocaloid < 1511467208 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiosKUO7oqo < 1511467359 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511467391 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1511467448 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1511467455 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1511467487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1511468567 0 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1511469266 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think CLooP should be extended to allow a default value for array elements (especially in GLooP mode, that one doesn't need to use a pforeach loop just to initialize any element, which, even in C, can be done using e.g. int array[N] = {0};) < 1511470008 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas I have a weekly HackEgo repository backup as well. < 1511470008 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1511470115 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511470386 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I was going to say it's Translate, not Translator, but apparently "Google™ Translator" is a Firefox extension you might've also meant. < 1511470530 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511470544 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good < 1511471522 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.68 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1511472803 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought a insanely powerful laptop! < 1511472833 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP9175.html < 1511472877 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got the actual shipping notification < 1511472899 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is on its way < 1511473065 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got one of those, except under the "Schenker" brand. (Few years old, not really used any more.) < 1511473080 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power brick weighs like, well, a brick. < 1511473285 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I kind of expected that < 1511473296 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :330 W is a ton of charger < 1511473335 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how it compares to a Tesla's charger < 1511473533 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind they are in kW < 1511473585 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop came with a 130W charger but I downgraded to 87W < 1511473922 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah but can your laptop play crysis at max settings < 1511473953 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or kerbal space program with a giant space station and all teh cool graphics mods) < 1511473973 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you should do is play Factorio instead. < 1511473979 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than all your other games. < 1511474241 0 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-79-69.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1511474646 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1511475141 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://steamcommunity.com/id/orenwatson/games/?tab=all < 1511475233 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hoping that 32 gb of ram will help build larger cities in cities: skylines too < 1511475573 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course I will stress test it by having an 8 by 8 dwarf fortress too < 1511475695 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see Factorio in the list? < 1511475731 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1511475734 0 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C141.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1511475746 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is it on sale? < 1511475865 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a tomato is a fruit, then is tomato soup a smoothie? < 1511475973 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on sale for the usual price of $20 < 1511475999 0 :Guest80236!?@? NICK :Bowserinator < 1511476002 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a good price < 1511476003 0 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@ic2.hellomouse.cf QUIT :Changing host < 1511476003 0 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1511476040 0 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: i thought its a berry. Then tomato soup a diluted jam < 1511476889 0 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1511478048 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdvv6lcpljuq7d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1511478981 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1511480244 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1511480993 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1511481256 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1511481285 0 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric