< 1513468827 725843 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition is that it is complete. < 1513468972 852592 :hkgit03!~hkgit03@ip4d16fea0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513468979 474747 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why 2^(kn) is needed, the size of the binary string should be enough... < 1513468996 602083 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose it could make it easier. < 1513469318 518917 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me you can implement brainfuck with a finite number of LB cells < 1513469339 566527 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1513469365 76336 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only +, not -, but that should be possible to deal with < 1513469422 769012 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get - modulo a given constant. < 1513469446 165479 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you would want it modulo the input bound < 1513469473 931870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :input is read into constants < 1513469491 22483 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you don't get it < 1513469503 854049 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not immediately < 1513469531 488348 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably a simple loop < 1513469533 860064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with (n,n+1), increment both until the latter becomes divisible by the bound. < 1513469537 853881 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1513469586 766491 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it should be possible to calculate 2^n from the input < 1513469605 220246 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a loop that doubles until you hit it < 1513469631 188946 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but it won't be a constant that way < 1513469674 111530 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh you can test for even-ness, so you can probably test for 2^n division with a loop < 1513469730 190816 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the control flow of the language is a bit weird though, hopefully nothing seriously limiting) < 1513469790 141192 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags are easy. < 1513469832 435434 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the if ... if else thing is good for enforcing several conditions for a command < 1513469852 606249 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually negation is the easier primitive (you can clear values modulo C (increment until divisible by C). To negate, start with (n,0) and incrment to (0,-n)). < 1513469895 525536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in order to start with (n,n+1), one would have to copy a counter...) < 1513469942 908172 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 int-e and i are getting pretty convinced BuzzFizz _is_ LBA complete. < 1513469942 998019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1513469978 918707 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot that I want it to be circular < 1513469978 965305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1513469980 737560 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1513469980 962903 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: no like me < 1513469986 12463 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :or its just slow < 1513469997 763836 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that's a human responding < 1513470002 139072 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION confused
< 1513470014 115146 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :function: that's one of its standard replies < 1513470022 383383 :augur_!~augur@h-67-100-92-114.snfc.ca.globalcapacity.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513470031 523649 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked fast to me, you may be lagged. < 1513470125 629882 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so it has plenty of arithmetic (with negation, multiplication should also be a breeze) < 1513470147 29804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write "else if" is the else flag then set afterward? < 1513470205 654583 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and the else: isn't needed for all this. (In fact it makes arbitrary flow control harder, since the natural way of doing that is to add a flag for every basic block) < 1513470309 997901 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :function () < 1513470312 574372 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm that seems a bit weird. < 1513470338 828132 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION executes Roger9
< 1513470366 720354 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION passes control flow to oerjan
< 1513470368 40847 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh right you can nest ifs < 1513470713 102615 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/buzzfizz/buzzfizz.y seems to imply so < 1513470788 371098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1513470913 793407 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it gets compiled into if ($else) { ... } $else = 1; ) < 1513470945 540359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I saw that < 1513471014 274098 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the divisions are perl % < 1513471026 659838 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e print (1%0); < 1513471027 370245 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal modulus zero at -e line 1. < 1513471034 800039 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will error < 1513471064 356550 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e print !(1%0); < 1513471065 93875 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal modulus zero at -e line 1. < 1513471428 503642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have multiple BuzzFizz programs piped together? < 1513472643 483525 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1513472693 15756 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1513472713 816795 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513473562 327637 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513473651 753721 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsœirjan! < 1513473656 134317 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1513473658 539882 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloochaf. < 1513474577 690487 :Aquenaton!~Aparecido@200-216-43-7.user.veloxzone.com.br PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit brushes!!! \o/ < 1513474817 200112 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1513475098 71163 :Roger9!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eats trout
< 1513475104 508794 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bites Roger9
< 1513475517 253549 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1513475929 100714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513476771 660108 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :coily < 1513477036 365143 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513477333 334467 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquenaton: Aquenatellon. bit brushes? < 1513477348 389184 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rellogellor9, trellout. < 1513477579 220407 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1513477637 458059 :Aquenaton!~Aparecido@200-216-43-7.user.veloxzone.com.br PART :#esoteric < 1513477740 97403 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513479161 621420 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: NAÏVE CHICKEN < 1513479859 271720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513480802 266346 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1513481080 647364 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The description for Unnecessary says that any valid program is a null program and is also a quine, but I am not so sure. Null program mean it has zero length; if it doesn't exist then it has not any length whether zero or otherwise. The quine is same problem. < 1513481174 805845 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe me or not? < 1513481243 502621 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. < 1513481270 250693 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a difference between an empty file and a nonecistent file < 1513481288 158396 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one of them can be listed in a directory < 1513481301 669674 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one of them has a name < 1513481331 58727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true, but it does not seem to have to do with what I mentioned < 1513481698 24959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PART #esoteric :"sorry for my connection" < 1513481703 705508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513481725 746685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Unnecessary the program must be nonexistent, rather than empty < 1513481733 227393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it's not clear what it means for a program to generate nonexistent output < 1513481735 449393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should crash? < 1513481757 136209 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :produce zero bytes? < 1513481787 500838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@message oerjan I'm far from certain it isn't LBA-complete; it would be surprising, but in a good way; it's confusing because it takes input in a different way from most LBAs < 1513481787 547346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages? < 1513481793 113689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I'm far from certain it isn't LBA-complete; it would be surprising, but in a good way; it's confusing because it takes input in a different way from most LBAs < 1513481793 113717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1513481800 909669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that's empty output, not nonexistent output < 1513481812 372816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it should close stdout? delete stdout? < 1513481823 408321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleting stdout is actually a meaningful operation on UNIX, sometimes, although you may well not have permission for it < 1513481869 351847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making producing nonexistent output is easily enough without changing the implementation; simply to define Unnecessary as having no I/O. < 1513481921 920833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the interpreter is connected to stdout is not a feature of the programming language. < 1513482027 668143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suspect it's possible to multiply numbers in BuzzFizz, at least as long as you only want to print the output < 1513482029 866697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can an LBA do that? < 1513482050 546270 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know. Did you write a program to multiply numbers? > 1513482087 538479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BuzzFizz14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53634&oldid=53633 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10/* Syntax */ minor fix to an ambiguous description < 1513482105 57572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not yet but I think I know what it would look like < 1513482198 898968 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an LBA is strictly greater than a 2DFA < 1513482204 322796 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 DFA has been shown to be able to multiple numbers < 1513482211 803894 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an LBA can multiply < 1513482236 327388 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1740257 < 1513482256 729806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh, duh, of course < 1513482262 917571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking there might not be room for the answer but of course there is < 1513482305 533303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to do it a digit at a time in most LBAs because they couldn't read the entire answer at once, but that's not really a problem, there's no rule saying you /can't/ do it a digit at a time < 1513485399 195489 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513485503 771880 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1513488471 997314 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1513488742 369074 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1513492102 382453 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1513493554 772311 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513497297 366901 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513501373 408279 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1513501716 532709 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513502492 28814 :tiny881!~cvrvz@108-223-184-223.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513502492 856611 :tiny881!~cvrvz@108-223-184-223.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513502542 370516 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513502924 399355 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcotmwoffiyz31.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1513503149 116257 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D3B1.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1513503166 727127 :spazzo589!~owhvflt@173-28-71-148.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1513503168 674278 :spazzo589!~owhvflt@173-28-71-148.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513503670 926213 :trashmet980!~zfeuthv@pool-100-8-174-108.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513503674 326433 :trashmet980!~zfeuthv@pool-100-8-174-108.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513504348 829529 :zarish-pa333!~xhnogo@dsl-197-245-89-156.voxdsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1513504360 948408 :zarish-pa333!~xhnogo@dsl-197-245-89-156.voxdsl.co.za QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513505683 112997 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:f37d:c0fd:6d13:f502:2ab7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513506851 800622 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1513507801 454086 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk QUIT :Changing host < 1513507801 454133 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1513507977 803916 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1513508007 96277 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1513508019 630147 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk QUIT :Changing host < 1513508019 676599 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1513508508 590267 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D3B1.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513509977 870727 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caugvkosdirulrws QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1513510073 369180 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.0 < 1513510088 98203 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1513510238 97762 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513510276 151136 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513510417 857102 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1513512330 690213 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1513514242 29011 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513514268 90505 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1513514764 365037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513514764 454001 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:1061:fc6d:8307:32a2 QUIT :Changing host < 1513514764 454044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1513515632 379927 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1513515776 88354 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513515777 824506 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1513516002 55155 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D3B1.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1513516841 40492 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1513516926 32128 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513517074 651534 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1513517079 931980 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:thé//Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth. \ apt-get//apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted. \ atriq//atriq or two \ rhubarb//Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb. \ termite//Termites are genericized ants for intellectu < 1513517080 980701 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1513517081 946301 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:al property reasons. < 1513517130 79913 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513517311 907516 :Guest6549!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1513517458 96772 :Slereah_!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513517470 803375 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D3B1.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513517944 772247 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1513517953 576602 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk QUIT :Changing host < 1513517953 576642 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1513518027 710022 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-46-55.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1513518068 42431 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@ip-2-203-46-55.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1513518459 104589 :potato44!~potato44@16.81.150.122.sta.dodo.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1513518579 539882 :potato44!~potato44@16.81.150.122.sta.dodo.net.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1513518589 840327 :constant!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1513518663 911695 :potato44!7a965110@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.150.81.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513518914 149423 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-11-216.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1513519168 124478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513519230 733117 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513519664 945561 :potato44!7a965110@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.150.81.16 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1513520222 196643 :Vampz!~Octopuz@host-69-146-20-141.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513520233 575667 :Vampz!~Octopuz@host-69-146-20-141.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net PART :#esoteric < 1513520594 820481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( argh. ) < 1513520755 467496 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513520959 457477 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, you OK? < 1513521052 657665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm fine. Just feeling stupid for producing an unsolvable megaminx configuration because I forgot about the permutation parity. < 1513521151 446993 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had this, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/d.svg ... and I noticed the parity problem when I reached the final face on the real thing :P) < 1513521303 309931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the question I'm investigating is whether it's possible to have 11 distinct colors on each of the 12 sides) < 1513521919 378433 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513521950 384422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case this got a little out of hand... I guess I've already spent about 8 hours on this now. < 1513521976 199606 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the upgrade has changed some settings that I left on default and I will have to set up, but the only big problem found so far is that twice I got locked up when switching away from an X11. Might be some driver problem. < 1513521993 203231 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you guys? < 1513522275 87365 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellob_jonas! < 1513522300 83570 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello! < 1513522302 258741 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanelle! < 1513522324 647003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. next try... http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/d2.svg < 1513522415 751972 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what are those shiny shapes? < 1513523292 253673 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1513523353 445584 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513523485 820732 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 QUIT :Client Quit < 1513523533 283457 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513523561 426234 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513523577 914381 :wob_jonas!b03f18a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.160 QUIT :Client Quit < 1513523652 97477 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513524828 661757 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1513524887 88415 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513524929 121250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's supposed to be a (reachable) megaminx configuration with all sides consisting of distinct colors, but I still have an odd permutation for the corners... < 1513525102 723678 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513525454 89267 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I identified my mistake... < 1513525517 563004 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what in fungot's name is a megaminx...
< 1513525517 901842 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: and the lack of clarity < 1513525538 274390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google megaminx < 1513525538 960741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ruwix.com/twisty-puzzles/megaminx-gigaminx-teraminx-petaminx/ < 1513525542 995450 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! it's a d12 rubik! < 1513525758 181056 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to understand how to code in jelly
< 1513525761 471794 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails miserably
< 1513525895 31251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... let's be brutal (O(n^4) size encoding for even permutations of n elements...) and try again. < 1513525923 215261 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION resorts to poking fungot
< 1513525923 605880 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATMunn: okay...... not all of them < 1513525940 734948 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513525989 366755 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513526067 31984 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's a megaminx configuration. Makes sense. I was wondering what that colored dodecahedron was. < 1513526111 144025 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my go-to link would be https://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/megaminx.htm < 1513526296 858082 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe now it's finally correct? http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/d3.svg < 1513526613 159882 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: this would be easier if you just showed it on a physical megaminix that I could turn in my hand. it's hard to understand the config from a screen < 1513526951 490011 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1513526989 938746 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :belloily < 1513526996 751698 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :behily < 1513527001 876863 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1513527008 301969 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhellony < 1513527012 355647 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily! < 1513527013 146412 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1513527080 998620 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1513527083 533789 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhelloony! < 1513527092 157315 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to make an esoteric language and then write an interpreter for it
< 1513527094 41125 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does so
< 1513527107 924273 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good on you < 1513527118 722119 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATMellonn. is it a purply language? < 1513527118 768586 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, challange: say hello to ATMunn like you do everyone else < 1513527138 188139 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :purply? < 1513527148 933099 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATMunn, 'purple colored'. Don't ask. < 1513527154 730186 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P < 1513527165 483523 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey everyone else! whats your language going to be about? < 1513527203 849452 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :chickens < 1513527213 992680 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I may or may not end up posting about it here, don't expect it to be anything to profound or new though :P) < 1513527223 640269 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasnt talking to you moony < 1513527307 239626 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATMunn: are you saying it will be a brainfuck derivative? that is a very popular way to make not new things < 1513527330 429594 :bashrc!~bashrc@183.83.214.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513527425 573780 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already have so many brainfuck derivatives that there are no niches left to fill. < 1513527434 401470 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be surprised. < 1513527458 87162 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not until we get meta brainfuck < 1513527464 975123 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking a while ago about making a taxi-like language (but with a different "theme") < 1513527465 627704 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With a real implementation) < 1513527497 557499 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: nah I don't care much for bf < 1513527510 361975 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :idek how to write a program in it < 1513527552 382793 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty straightforward, it's an imperative language < 1513527562 432430 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh its easy. you just strimg together +-<>[]., add pepper to taste < 1513527608 326324 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: FATHCER CHICKEN < 1513527623 833561 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm aware that it's not hard < 1513527634 610759 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't have much of an interest in it < 1513527680 584168 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :youndont have to have an interest in it. you just use it as a way to scratch some other itch < 1513527768 503289 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyways, I'm aware that there are about a million derivatives of it out there, so I certainly won't add to them < 1513527932 589212 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf_derivatives.bind(Number.add, [1]).call(ATMunn); < 1513527950 847549 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1513528189 462513 :bashrc!~bashrc@183.83.214.68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1513528547 685223 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1513529153 204480 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1513529153 204511 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@x1-6-b8-d9-4d-67-1b-b5.cpe.webspeed.dk QUIT :Changing host < 1513529153 204528 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1513529259 475003 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start a Btjzxgquartfrqifjoust ring! < 1513529554 847142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, finally it worked out. < 1513529598 106896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, *now* I have a physical version of that configuration. < 1513529715 645200 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: great. < 1513531360 130058 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/d/ < 1513531428 444645 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blurry photos but the idea is that the first series corresponds to the left half of the diagram (top of the dodecahedron) and the second series to the right side (bottom) < 1513531626 233442 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mfmqafwutxwprxjk JOIN :#esoteric < 1513532746 918686 :anarki1911!~quassel@79.117.200.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513533101 478198 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nice < 1513533118 492714 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a stickerless miniminx? < 1513533148 809323 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1513533153 261476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm < 1513533154 427081 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini? < 1513533161 721291 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :megaminx, whatever < 1513533171 901735 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow how all these puzzles are called < 1513533848 145716 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513534177 794936 :anarki1911!~quassel@79.117.200.173 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513535481 133330 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513535622 69917 :fnodeuser!~irssiuser@ppp-2-86-201-174.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513535642 700195 :fnodeuser!~irssiuser@ppp-2-86-201-174.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1513536388 404699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513537339 132110 :wob_jonas!b03f1884@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.132 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1513537478 354450 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:f37d:8127:8c92:d6f:9264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513538824 1173 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1513538832 203633 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513539133 390480 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1513539507 407490 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1513539933 288094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1513539937 222221 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1513540412 373817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1513541066 366268 :hkgit03!~hkgit03@77.22.254.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513542518 186211 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1513542641 24470 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1513542641 113989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 said 16h 54m 7s ago: I'm far from certain it isn't LBA-complete; it would be surprising, but in a good way; it's confusing because it takes input in a different way from most LBAs < 1513543332 362537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513543367 261756 :Guest6549!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah_ < 1513544249 401025 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513544905 110171 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you have a Turing tape with useable length l and k cell values, then you can give BuzzFizz the input as the two values k^l and the-data-in-base-k, the combined size is linear in the turing tape input, and you can do an emulation of the bounded tape with two bounded registers (mod k^l). < 1513544935 239406 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/data/input tape/ < 1513544990 960808 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(k is a true constant so the program can depend on it.) < 1513545047 902237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's not immediately obvious how to extract digits in base k, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some way < 1513545067 748190 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can divide by k in a loop < 1513545100 536328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because k is a constant, you can repeatedly loop from 1 up to k and subtract each time < 1513545111 209839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the big advantage of having k^l as an input is that subtraction is a meaningful operation then < 1513545131 907991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, actually, no < 1513545135 157486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can subtract general integers < 1513545136 489011 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you strictly _need_ k^l as an input, but it makes things simpler < 1513545148 309464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop up to the lower one, then start counting as you loop up to the higher one < 1513545178 816555 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's pretty much like int-e found out yesterday < 1513545242 108890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language is unintuitive in the reverse way to normal < 1513545250 825108 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1513545259 535642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of things that seem easy turning out to be hard, things that seem hard/impossible turn out to be doable in a fairly straightforward way < 1513545266 165983 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1513545278 127083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "you have to have a counter on one side of \ and a constant on the other side" feels much more restrictive than it actually is < 1513545297 936143 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1513545487 902256 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, i determined one thing about countercall < 1513545518 590659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested, more countercall knowledge sounds like a good thing < 1513545523 279246 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :call a sequence of commands "clamped" if there's an upper bound to what values it can halt with. < 1513545523 716291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to have caught many people's imaginatinos < 1513545532 194956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what values of the counter, that is? < 1513545535 578161 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1513545621 453568 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then clamped sequences are infectious: any command sequence referring to one, including inside a function, is also clamped. < 1513545772 296589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that violates my intuition somewhat, but assuming that's correct the language probably isn't TC < 1513545800 615179 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this doesn't disallow sequences from not halting. < 1513545880 114932 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove this, it helps to have another more obvious fact: < 1513545929 627537 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any command sequence there exists constants n and k such that if the initial counter is <=n, then the effect of the sequence is to add k to it. < 1513545987 21969 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proof: n is -number of top-level + in the sequence, k is the +es - the -es.) < 1513546017 692311 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no function gets to run then.) < 1513546075 240181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, that's fairly clear < 1513546159 176862 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means, in particular, that if A and B are command sequences, A is clamped with bound m and B has the n and k as above, then there are at most m+n output values of A that B does anything other than add k to. < 1513546230 212557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there seems to be a sign error here somewhere < 1513546232 180383 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1513546237 449797 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, m-n i guess < 1513546242 359963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll buy that < 1513546309 673991 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those m-n values can only give m-n outputs of B, so there's a maximum; everything else becomes less than m+k, so A B is clamped. < 1513546328 396346 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring things that don't halt.) < 1513546350 248062 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1513546384 118982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1513546386 266223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm < 1513546401 422820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not 100% clear what proportion of the code has to be in terminating functions < 1513546440 639935 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you go keymaker's route and emulate things while never halting... < 1513546455 466434 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saying "things" alot
< 1513546498 411806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to let the functions terminate sometime, otherwise it's a 1-counter machine < 1513546514 452271 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1513546550 448108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm, I'm not sure if the clampedness is a problem after all < 1513546553 311776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language is so infuriating < 1513546569 958449 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that A B is clamped if B is is trivial, as is f where f : B and B is clamped. < 1513546623 57908 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1513546630 409020 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks syntax
< 1513546640 440109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imagine a recursive function that calls itself, then a clamped function, then increments the counter < 1513546648 407979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any reason why the return value is necessarily clamped < 1513546684 942080 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there wasn't any syntax to check < 1513546783 496192 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: f : ... f ... g + then calling f will end up with g + as the last command run if f runs at all < 1513546812 523107 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will be clamped to at most one higher than g is < 1513546838 679710 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and if it halts. < 1513546894 437840 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a return value at all, it must pass through g. < 1513546952 654436 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's at the top level call of f, what happens recursively doesn't matter. < 1513547203 569954 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if any function _doesn't_ get to run that means things are already clamped at <= 0. < 1513547241 156009 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you cannot avoid this by getting g not to run < 1513547249 274452 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or f itself < 1513547283 479039 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1513547300 597359 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*procedure < 1513547336 49874 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the way countercall works it's pretty much functions mathematically < 1513547956 451378 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1513548144 743369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah right < 1513548153 615475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case I strongly suspect that countercall isn't TC < 1513548167 243167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that makes it very hard to restore the counter to the positives without everything going out of control < 1513548599 957570 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem tricky < 1513548779 379518 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1513548798 422063 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513550281 237526 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513550581 271794 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1513550726 375013 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513551357 537644 :pelegreno_!~cinch@107.170.175.57 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513551393 72267 :LeoLambda!Leo@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe3e:12c3 QUIT :K-Lined < 1513551499 475138 :LeoLambda!Leo@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe3e:12c3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513551814 774514 :hkgit03!~hkgit03@77.22.254.161 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513551944 401853 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513552239 331004 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1513552372 381008 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513552487 144403 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wboily < 1513552526 93457 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1513552536 239116 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did? < 1513552589 123271 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have shuffled tiles <_<... >_>'... < 1513552595 38828 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can stop whenever I want! < 1513552883 288698 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. but can you want to stop whenever you want? < 1513552952 220584 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1513552953 552998 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders
< 1513553028 216186 :poq!~null@skidstain.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1513553183 457930 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome poq < 1513553184 931063 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06poq: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1513553195 702716 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mfmqafwutxwprxjk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1513553209 640749 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1513553227 491596 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blows ion a kiss
< 1513553255 116245 :poq!~null@skidstain.com PART :#esoteric < 1513553355 80311 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooh! a drive-by ion licking! < 1513553360 64328 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen that in a while ^^ < 1513553545 542910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, is that what relcome looks like? < 1513553555 245378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reminded of why they turned off color in their IRC client originally
< 1513553565 594585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other channels I'm in use it for more useful things than that :-D < 1513553599 7880 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his523. what kind of useful things it can be used for? < 1513553652 70021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorcoded bot messages, most commonly < 1513553662 627375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the bot outputs a colored header explaining why it posted the message < 1513553670 633692 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1513553733 478193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome test < 1513553734 914150 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​09test: 02Welcome 06to 13the 04international 07hub 08for 09esoteric 02programming 06language 13design 04and 07deployment! 08For 09more 02information, 06check 13out 04our 07wiki: 08. 09(For 02the 06other 13kind 04of 07esoterica, 08try 09#esoteric 02on 06EFnet 13or 04DALnet.) < 1513553739 787921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's better < 1513553754 864954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the yellow in my client was out of place compared to the other colors, I adjusted it tob e more consistent with them) < 1513553760 579706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might need to make the blue a bit brighter too, I guess < 1513553777 278979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The wiki recent changes are colored, FWIW. < 1513553796 153964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome test < 1513553797 546927 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02test: 06Welcome 13to 04the 07international 08hub 09for 02esoteric 06programming 13language 04design 07and 08deployment! 09For 02more 06information, 13check 04out 07our 08wiki: 09. 02(For 06the 13other 04kind 07of 08esoterica, 09try 02#esoteric 06on 13EFnet 04or 07DALnet.) < 1513553806 570339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that's nicely readable < 1513553946 168887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from being really garish and rainbow-colored, but I guess that's what it's meant to do < 1513554257 402069 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rElCoMe ais523 < 1513554258 23710 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rElCoMe: not found < 1513554261 227458 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1513554291 474487 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`RELCOME ais523 < 1513554292 119263 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: RELCOME: not found < 1513554305 387666 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is sadly lacking in formatting possibilitites < 1513554333 25164 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` find -iname '*elcome* < 1513554333 771963 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1513554339 231457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Just compose. < 1513554340 29663 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` find -iname '*elcome*' < 1513554340 904613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` relcome | CaT < 1513554342 717618 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13wElCoMe 04To 07ThE 08iNtErNaTiOnAl 09HuB 02fOr 06EsOtErIc 13PrOgRaMmInG 04lAnGuAgE 07dEsIgN 08aNd 09DePlOyMeNt! 02fOr 06MoRe 13InFoRmAtIoN, 04ChEcK 07oUt 08OuR 09wIkI: 02. 06(FoR 13tHe 04OtHeR 07kInD 08oF 09eSoTeRiCa, 02tRy 06#eSoTeRiC 13oN 04eFnEt 07Or 08DaLnEt.) < 1513554343 755516 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​./bin/Welcome \ ./bin/wElCoMe \ ./bin/velcome \ ./bin/autowelcome \ ./bin/WELCOME \ ./bin/welcome \ ./bin/relcome \ ./bin/WeLcOmE \ ./bin/welcome \ ./bin/ReLcOmE \ ./bin/rwelcome \ ./bin/elcome \ ./share/autowelcome_status \ ./.hg/store/data/autowelcome__status.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/_welcome.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/velcome.i \ ./.hg/store/d < 1513554363 576407 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` find bin -iname '*elcome*' < 1513554364 421624 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/Welcome \ bin/wElCoMe \ bin/velcome \ bin/autowelcome \ bin/WELCOME \ bin/welcome \ bin/relcome \ bin/WeLcOmE \ bin/welcome \ bin/ReLcOmE \ bin/rwelcome \ bin/elcome < 1513554388 357951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused that it's even possible to bold the name of an executable (although I know why it works) < 1513554394 906861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome test < 1513554396 271854 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​test: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1513554445 303685 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should have started on R instead of r < 1513554451 693625 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ReLcOmE ais523 < 1513554453 241172 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07AiS523: 08WeLcOmE 09To 02tHe 06iNtErNaTiOnAl 13hUb 04fOr 07eSoTeRiC 08PrOgRaMmInG 09LaNgUaGe 02dEsIgN 06AnD 13DePlOyMeNt! 04FoR 07MoRe 08iNfOrMaTiOn, 09ChEcK 02OuT 06OuR 13WiKi: 04. 07(fOr 08tHe 09oThEr 02kInD 06Of 13eSoTeRiCa, 04TrY 07#eSoTeRiC 08On 09eFnEt 02oR 06DaLnEt.) < 1513554468 470197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I joined a channel and got that message, I would not feel welcome < 1513554484 211377 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that proves its effectiveness < 1513554499 62653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of our welcomes, other than `welcome and its translated variants, are actually any good for welcoming new people < 1513554506 890546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're mostly just for annoying regulars < 1513554524 992469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo had so much potential – it was intended as an esolang-running bot that could be expanded to understand new esolangs < 1513554530 585719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet look what people ended up doing with it :-( < 1513554542 501138 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:-(/:-)/ < 1513554567 325836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`# :-(//`? shaventions < 1513554568 617266 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet. < 1513554571 152091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least there was actual ontopic conversation here today! < 1513554580 830320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think many of the shaventions are useful. < 1513554668 9970 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have had ontopic conversation for several days straight ais523. it's nice in small doses. < 1513554740 219129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what point do you give up on topic prescriptivism and recognize that the topic is what people talk about? < 1513554782 442960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if the channel has no connection to its topic then it's effectively equivalent to all other channels with no connection to its topic, up to its userbase < 1513554800 994206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's true. < 1513554814 728456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can flip this around: I'm currently in nine different NetHack-related channels and we often move a NetHack-related conversation from one to another because it's getting offtopic for the specific channel < 1513554832 879925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have different userbases because some people care about some conversations and not others < 1513554833 891446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that too, of course. < 1513554857 983282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this channel has always had some proportion of offtopic conversation that I've disliked < 1513554873 119743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it has offtopic conversation I'm fine with (e.g. general programming/computery stuff) < 1513554879 658916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ontopic conversation is why I'm here < 1513554889 219557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in periods when ontopic conversation has been rare I just haven't joined at all < 1513554899 851029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of places to discuss general programming/computery stuff, after all < 1513554920 107766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, something came up at work recently that I thought this channel might like, it's rather eso in spirit < 1513554932 310773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking into whether it's possible to extend anonymous inner classes in Java < 1513554955 647703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end it turned out to be unnecessary, so I stopped looking into it, but it's an interesting/bizarre problem < 1513554964 103690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sometimes they're generated as final, sometimes not < 1513554968 369629 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcotmwoffiyz31.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1513554973 152438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you have a lot of channel overlap with other people in the channel, it's different, of course. < 1513554985 903691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-static inner classes in Java are kind of an odd construct. < 1513554994 533005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was surprised when I first learned how they work. < 1513555018 289138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one thing I have discovered is that it's possible to extend a named inner class, even if it's both not-static and private (!) < 1513555023 370746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you have to be in the same package < 1513555047 634779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't construct an object of the resulting derived class via the normal means, as you can't run a super constructor, but you can do it using deserialisation or the like < 1513555085 435212 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds