< 1513555202 570280 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in < 1513555218 551988 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-186-251.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1513555218 598505 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-186-251.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1513555218 598534 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1513555220 746480 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513555305 326097 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@81.164.108.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513555569 363177 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@81.164.108.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1513555875 332119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1513555898 62915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513556066 601774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1513556408 781407 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1513557130 112296 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1513557636 836123 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513557813 234202 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1513558361 704216 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1513558366 678297 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry‘s humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation gblh//Gblh but less helpful. \ laughed//They laughed when I said I wanted to be a comedian. They're not laughing n < 1513558367 403438 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1513558368 293777 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:ow! \ nth//nth is not that helpful \ gaspacho//You like Gaspacho and I like Gazpacho. Let's call the whole thing off! < 1513558618 153384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Huh. < 1513559306 188020 :LeoLambda!Leo@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe3e:12c3 QUIT :K-Lined < 1513559351 73524 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513559353 401958 :LeoLambda!Leo@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe3e:12c3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513559423 702877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for anonymous inner classes, though, they seem to be marked as final or not more or less at random, at least I haven't spotted a pattern < 1513559434 252224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not purely based on a) whether they capture this, b) whether they captuer other tihngs < 1513559641 20843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. JLS says: "An anonymous class is never final (§8.1.1.2). The fact that an anonymous class is not final is relevant in casting, in particular the narrowing reference conversion allowed for the cast operator (§5.5). It is also of interest in subclassing, in that it is impossible to declare a subclass of an anonymous class, despite an anonymous class being non-final, because an anonymous class cannot < 1513559647 34951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :be named by an extends clause (§8.1.4)." < 1513559689 147018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, I've certainly come across anonymous classes which a) have the final flag set in their bytecode, and b) give a verifyerror if you try to extend them < 1513559716 848590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seem to be some differences between Java and the JVM here < 1513559745 470355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess extending them that way would fall outside the scope of the JLS, not being part of the language. < 1513559823 742445 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzfetoykynubidoj JOIN :#esoteric < 1513559958 81936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this has helped; it explains why Modifier.isFinal() always returns false for anonymous classes < 1513559967 229665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the JLS says they're not final, so the reflection API says they're not final < 1513559971 333120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the bytecode says otherwise < 1513560261 196238 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1513560552 853953 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1513560588 403260 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzfetoykynubidoj QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1513560600 76197 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@ic2.hellomouse.cf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513560623 99244 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@ic2.hellomouse.cf QUIT :Changing host < 1513560623 99280 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1513561156 206539 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1513561397 617360 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tysqkglqvqkmtdbc JOIN :#esoteric < 1513561453 443365 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513561721 258672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1513561733 362844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513562349 135237 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1513562501 248837 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tysqkglqvqkmtdbc QUIT : < 1513562817 737316 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1513563696 802173 :elite_g33515!~dpszmd@98.217.76.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513563706 710070 :elite_g33515!~dpszmd@98.217.76.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12,03▄02,09▄08,07▄02,02▄04,04▄13,09▄02,06▄03,06▄12,11▄12,10▄10,08▄03,03▄12,10▄08,05▄11,09▄12,04▄05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETvtesfhtx: Vorpal MDude HackEgo erdic lynn sleffy Lord_of_Life shachaf joast zzo38 MrBusiness Lymia ATMunn Melvar sebbu augur Bowserinator Cale FreeFull sprocklem newsham_ fnodeuser grumble Sgeo fungot < 1513563707 60127 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elite_g33515: i'm not suggesting it should be possible between and?:). < 1513563711 739318 :elite_g33515!~dpszmd@98.217.76.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :08,04▄07,08▄10,02▄12,08▄08,08▄13,06▄05,11▄11,02▄04,03▄06,13▄12,11▄11,03▄09,06▄08,07▄03,13▄13,09▄11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETgoeniznve: heroux jix garit izabera sftp sleffy Soni danieljabailey ski Lord_of_Life doesthiswork sprocklem Bowserinator Vorpal ineiros sparr Melvar lifthrasiir zzo38 brandonson ais523 lynn jaboja Hack < 1513563716 3714 :elite_g33515!~dpszmd@98.217.76.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :02,12▄12,02▄06,13▄11,09▄03,09▄11,09▄06,07▄13,04▄07,07▄13,12▄05,11▄13,04▄06,08▄03,10▄07,06▄13,05▄12,10▄07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETcrnfagcwi: GeekDude sparr jaboja MrBusiness ski aloril boily Soni MDude sftp staffehn_ Deewiant FreeFull brandonson Sgeo ATMunn Warrigal Cale Melvar erdic \oren\_ zzo38 lifthrasiir fungot con < 1513563716 482995 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elite_g33515: or just you this: fnord is released! give them their own if their environment isn't working to subvert that. < 1513563717 502411 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now its here lol < 1513563720 766117 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 < 1513563722 289077 :elite_g33515!~dpszmd@98.217.76.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :02,09▄09,10▄12,09▄03,02▄03,04▄10,08▄06,12▄08,11▄05,04▄13,08▄03,08▄04,11▄13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETjnqnnlxvv: aloril doesthiswork Vorpal contrapumpkin newsham_ Bowserinator sleffy staffehn_ sprocklem joast brandonson fnodeuser ais523 tromp heroux Warrigal \oren\_ LeoLambda deltab Melvar izabera Cale shachaf sebbu grumble Deewiant esowiki < 1513563722 444283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 KICK #esoteric elite_g33515 :I don't have a better default kick reason, but if you're being kicked, you should know why < 1513563723 230634 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1513563740 760150 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that kick message < 1513563750 998558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: it works fine as a default kick message < 1513563774 743327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I need to kick someone for a non-obvious reason I'd normally have time to explain why < 1513563810 412982 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup that was obvious < 1513563821 866923 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's the spambot everybody's talking about < 1513563850 77888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to stay decloaked a bit longer just in case it comes back < 1513563898 209772 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:f37d:8127:8c92:d6f:9264 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513564013 298862 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH what the my eyes! D: < 1513564026 858582 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you followed the link? < 1513564037 50092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't follow links posted by spambots/trolls, in case that isn't obvious < 1513564053 228479 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't follow the links. the colours. they are dangerous. < 1513564063 114745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to +c the channel? I can do that < 1513564081 628174 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a +c? < 1513564098 934735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically removes formatting codes from messages < 1513564100 95358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colors, etc. < 1513564106 22406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still send them but the colors won't be there < 1513564110 579182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful when people are abusing colors, as seen above < 1513564118 929569 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how will we relcome new members? < 1513564136 778844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the third channel that bot has pinged me at. < 1513564169 330697 :ilbelkyr!ilbelkyr@freenode/staff/atheme.ilbelkyr JOIN :#esoteric < 1513564386 313894 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's another flag that stops coloured messages from coming through entirely < 1513564678 790742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing about stopping such messages from being sent. < 1513564763 686920 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, seems freenode doesn't have that channel mode < 1513564792 680866 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is +C which disallow some messages, but it doesn't do that, and is not very flexible either. Better might be that you can program the exceptions, as well as disallowing specific characters (any character in range 0 to 31 you can disallow if you wish; you can also disable codes 128-255 as a group). < 1513564813 994768 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :+C only blocks CTCPs < 1513564818 706997 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which the spammer isn't using < 1513564826 719434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it doesn't even block all CTCPs. < 1513564837 869987 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I suggested to reprogram it to be more flexible. < 1513564845 789753 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other IRCDs that do have blocking messages if they have colour codes < 1513564848 108594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then you can block colours too if you like to do) < 1513564870 903370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it is, actually, it sent me a personal CTCP (not a channel CTCP) asking for my client version, no idea why < 1513564895 927907 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1513564902 277210 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an invite to a channel < 1513564916 42284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an offensively-named one? < 1513564918 544064 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1513564923 120609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened to me earlier < 1513564932 582424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my client set to not autoaccept invites but it's a fairly ingenious form of spam < 1513564943 213390 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:56:12 [Freenode] -!- annarel129 invites you to #FreeFullisan****r9 < 1513564956 576820 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I censored it < 1513564962 175461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at HELP UMODE they don't mention blocking invites. < 1513564977 584653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i FreeFullistan < 1513565019 615253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not know if +g blocks invites) < 1513565022 22343 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That'd be a weird country < 1513565044 727910 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only got one invite, so not much of an issue < 1513565073 990841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if there is no such server setting, you can block them in the client if it becomesa problem I suppose < 1513565152 918455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least in program I use, the /F command can be used to block anything that can be matched by a regular expression.) < 1513565223 777626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 < 1513565240 432429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want to stay decloaked too long, and if the bot hasn't come back yet then it's probably no more likely to hit here than anywhere else < 1513565424 560652 :boily!~alexandre@192.222.236.157 QUIT :Quit: ORBITAL CHICKEN < 1513565454 43499 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi has regex ignores too < 1513565470 878507 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, other programs might have too < 1513565614 123609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, /F can do stuff other than block, too; you can also program it to ring a bell, highlight the message, or log the message in another window; or any combination of these effects (which can also be combined with suppressing the message).) < 1513566008 798175 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, oh wait you're in here < 1513566016 988068 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd that happen < 1513566530 126114 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513566551 722218 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that java anonymous class stuff sounds crazy < 1513566624 195224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes < 1513566638 82614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we're doing at work is crazy (and somewhat proprietary), we thought that doing that might help < 1513566641 754467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I now think it's unnecessary < 1513566695 911856 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby does let you derive from anonymous classes < 1513567058 100374 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, ruby is a language that in general lets you do anything, even the stupidest abstraction-breaking things < 1513567110 502059 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can redefine builtin methods and all that < 1513567116 202930 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great for esoprogramming < 1513567487 976414 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: o hay < 1513567494 486662 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleffy: ive been here since 2007! < 1513567509 732307 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been here for less than a year! < 1513567512 820000 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1513567521 802130 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame shachaf < 1513567721 158775 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf does not like me < 1513567916 457031 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the ol' shachaf-augur animosity rearing it ugly head! < 1513567927 751349 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one even knows where it started b/c it's been like a decade! < 1513567930 809861 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~mystery~ < 1513568570 641802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1513568682 292314 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, could you have a blue spirit creature with like "When no opponent controls two or more creatures, sacrifice ~."? Because it's like a ghost that only has power if there's someone who believes in him? Or would that be a white-only ability? < 1513568695 557660 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, is a 2/2 for {U} with that possible? < 1513568699 594903 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that way too strong? < 1513568777 940936 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any of those question < 1513569650 317619 :wob_jonas!b03f18cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.204 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1513569971 500969 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1513570001 435703 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1513570286 428659 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1513570350 493637 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1513572584 327816 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513572786 110955 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1513572811 420032 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513573170 245324 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1513573190 852027 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea of a Magic: the Gathering card: Enchanted object has all names. (It is a bit like Spy Kit, but not only for creatures, and can be used with opponent's cards too, and possibly even spells (if it says "enchant spell or permanent" and has flash), and includes legendary names and names of non-creature cards, too.) < 1513576748 370992 :constant!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1513576764 295930 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513576787 614365 :newsham_!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net NICK :newsham < 1513577160 57400 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:f37d:8127:8c92:d6f:9264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513579519 372171 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1513580189 561756 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1513580223 435255 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513580235 709566 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1513580267 616783 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513580282 363621 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1513580312 120733 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513580329 616410 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1513580364 293656 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513580376 898562 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1513580417 23888 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1513580423 902835 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1513580657 772753 :wishstudio!~wishstudi@118.184.87.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513581329 47677 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:f37d:8127:8c92:d6f:9264 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1513581716 849455 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1513582529 843014 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513584006 419497 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1513584588 683779 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When all conventional explanations for a phenomenon are ruled out, are able to accept paranormal ones." I would think that in order to accept paranormal ones, you would have to define paranormal ones properly first. Furthermore, how do you know you have not missed something? It is good to consider all of the possibilities, but, you are going to miss some. < 1513584644 183016 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it is good if you do not dismiss it out of hand. < 1513584710 912034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it? < 1513585500 523647 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:472:8127:8c92:d6f:9264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513587019 693377 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, we never know we didn't missed one < 1513587071 908074 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, even if a conventional explanation works, we never know if it's because we're in a very specific usecase or not < 1513587170 470747 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quite a few "conventional explanations" we thought to be true all the time / for all cases, only to discover they only applied to certains conditions / referentials < 1513587218 746514 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :beside, some other explanation might have similar/close result < 1513587228 545271 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we might not be able to see/detect/measure the difference < 1513587249 306578 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are correct; that is happening a lot, which is why we will need the more scientific experiment in future to figure out better. < 1513587294 305075 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, we even know there is a difference, but it's just smaller than the margin of error of our measure equipment < 1513587306 343342 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you can prove mathematically that you can't miss one (which is impossible since neither the exact law of physics nor the exact circumstances in use is perfectly known) < 1513587310 832622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: Yes, that too. < 1513587327 657156 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics can be true < 1513587330 824262 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics can't < 1513587429 606071 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you can find an irrational number as a speed/length, which is physically impossible because it has a precision smaller than the atom size < 1513587459 716949 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so physically, Pythatogore's algorithm is false < 1513587480 820417 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's close to reality though < 1513587565 829435 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for mathematics, you probably saw a case when you had 2 points you thought were the same, but later demonstrated they weren't ? < 1513587621 110391 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which isn't a matter of mathematics, but our pereption of the graphical representation - geometry) < 1513587658 765015 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics is difference from physical world. Scientific is not as perfect as mathematics. Even if you try to use these thing in mathematics to figure the physical world but it doesn't work because you are using the incorrect modeling and incorrect measurement and so on. < 1513587711 465013 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit JOIN :#esoteric < 1513587713 795039 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit QUIT :Excess Flood < 1513587771 371608 :garit!~garit@94.197.120.148.threembb.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1513587771 418103 :garit!~garit@94.197.120.148.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Changing host < 1513587771 418146 :garit!~garit@unaffiliated/garit JOIN :#esoteric < 1513587799 95231 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or things works in a particular usecase which we thought to be universal < 1513587803 292233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, the situations are not as simple as the simplified explanations make it that I have quoted above. < 1513587809 178612 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, einstein relativity law < 1513587819 104542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: Yes. I think you mentioned those already; you are correct. < 1513587846 483509 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works in general usecase, neither in microscopic/nanoscopic referential, neither in black hole proximity referential < 1513587893 206660 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were only discovered years later < 1513588002 531206 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1513588868 720580 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1513596476 408516 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1513596952 362563 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513597081 527918 :fnodeuser!~irssiuser@ppp-2-86-201-174.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1513597263 917897 :fnodeuser!~irssiuser@ppp-2-86-201-174.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1513597684 515645 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1513597689 132639 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:violation//Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family. \ relrod//A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force. \ imagine//Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs. \  < 1513597689 811608 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1513597690 684696 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:bike//Bike is from Luxembourg. \ belgium//The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia". < 1513598528 298357 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting < 1513598611 50334 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT : < 1513598655 342046 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C3A3.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1513598805 900739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513598861 703201 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1513598918 356388 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513599616 446422 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1513599670 550098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1513599682 372806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513600022 285341 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: CASSIA CHICKEN < 1513600676 980816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: reconnecting < 1513600694 366266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513601563 109299 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1513601847 836596 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1513602453 112906 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1513604800 505796 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C3A3.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513605630 442934 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513606645 772357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: my connection is too bad for the Internet to be usable right now < 1513607552 213622 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1513608331 436991 :fnodeuser!~irssiuser@ppp-2-86-201-174.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1513608346 788873 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1513608641 892251 :fnodeuser!~irssiuser@ppp-2-86-205-194.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1513610318 52386 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2407:928:393e:8263 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513611791 55969 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513612632 803577 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1513612685 889337 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C3A3.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1513614418 923991 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C3A3.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513616095 810957 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1513616577 354486 :augur!~augur@2600:380:c02f:e161:f82a:f77e:e95c:ee74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513616645 826400 :augur_!~augur@2600:380:c02f:e161:4d04:fece:c02b:e0f5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513616871 372264 :augur!~augur@2600:380:c02f:e161:f82a:f77e:e95c:ee74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1513621079 953216 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1513621375 823794 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1513622103 214575 :hkgit03!~hkgit03@ip4d16fea9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1513622264 492423 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513622529 465716 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1513623796 367536 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513624310 449405 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513624346 471139 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2407:928:393e:8263 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513624702 291373 :augur_!~augur@2600:380:c02f:e161:4d04:fece:c02b:e0f5 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513625547 207581 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1513625726 33102 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm crap connection < 1513625795 664223 :Slereah_!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you prefer an Ehresmann connection < 1513625805 817887 :Slereah_!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIFFERENTIAL GEOMETRY JOKE) < 1513625815 893528 :Slereah_!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, not ##physics < 1513625816 831922 :Slereah_!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-91-183.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1513626305 916403 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this channel is always in free fall < 1513626322 421563 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but today we got some elite spam, i see < 1513626324 826673 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513626393 479756 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513626421 294038 :augur!~augur@192.195.83.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513626507 800419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to lodge a complaint regarding the spam. The initial header was all U+2584 LOWER HALF BLOCK. Alternating between that and U+2580 UPPER HALF BLOCK would have provided a much more higher-fidelity approximation of the header on channels with the +c mode set. (Saw it on ##scheme like that.) < 1513626712 876650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An approximation of what header? < 1513626862 249132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The initial 12,03▄02,09▄08,07▄02,02▄04,04▄ and so on, in the spammer's messages. < 1513626902 735630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should've been ▄▀▄▀▄▀... without colors. < 1513626922 555161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it was just ▄▄▄▄▄▄. < 1513627286 583886 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the shtetl-optimized RSS feed broken for anyone else? < 1513627310 520600 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had to check it manually since he posted that Googatory thing < 1513627331 529484 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i already tried deleting and resubscribing) < 1513627361 239175 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it/the blog/ < 1513627551 747047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worked for me in Feedly, but I'm not exactly sure which feed that's picking up from. < 1513627572 538231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check if that's visible somewhere in the UI when I get home. < 1513627812 608552 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah my connection to nvg is so crappy it's awful to view the feed with less there < 1513628123 280425 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkgnlvoolaqsydiv JOIN :#esoteric < 1513628158 263945 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos PART :#esoteric < 1513628214 290396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one addendum to buzzfizz: you can combine a modulo n counter and a modulo m counter into a single modulo (n*m) counter without any coprimality assumption; to test for 0, just test both for 0; to increment, increment the first, then increment the second if the first counter is 0. < 1513628326 172988 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the +c and +C and if I was implementing them, I will do it differently. Instead, it is one mode, that takes a 32-bit number as a parameter. Any bit which is set blocks the corresponding control character. Additionally, bit0 blocks all character codes higher than 127, bit10 blocks code 127, and bit13 may also have another use. < 1513628355 725390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I would do is to add a new mode to set a write-password. You can join without the password, but if you enter the correct password then you are automatically voiced. < 1513628401 360353 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of this please? < 1513628489 898025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So we can simulate a Minsky-like machine with counters bounded by a fixed power of the input (for simplicity assuming that the whole input is encoded into a single number), which seems to be a good target for LBAs. < 1513628635 366719 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1513628722 242861 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513628733 112468 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: did you see my discussion with ais523 yesterday? i was assuming passing an extra argument that is k^length of usable tape, although with your method that can be k^length of input instead. < 1513628854 5843 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you get a bounded turing tape via two counters like that < 1513628958 365242 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think either method counts as proving LBA-completeness) < 1513629017 878299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I saw parts of it, my remark was aimed at getting rid of that auxiliary constant. < 1513629023 578672 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1513629036 704937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't mind it terribly but if we can do without, I prefer that) < 1513629041 223554 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need something in case the input happens to have many initial zeroes. < 1513629064 834111 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could just pass the sum of them, actually. < 1513629073 170233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, some sort of end-of-tape marker cannot be avoided, I guess. < 1513629073 287078 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. left pad by a 1. < 1513629133 285567 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just needs a proof that if you can do arithmetic mod n then you can do it mod m for m<=n. < 1513629173 791060 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where m is k^l in this case. < 1513629176 628663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can do arithmetic mod m in brainfuck < 1513629182 934148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with bounded cells) < 1513629186 773684 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1513629215 55581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was more interested in the countercall discussion anyway < 1513629220 766760 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1513629532 648901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clampedness is a clever notion) < 1513629561 6911 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we'd like to show that any function is either clamped or total? hmm. < 1513629793 834352 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that doesn't rule out TC-ness by itself. < 1513630225 57721 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:10de:21db:3975:fec7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513630913 374070 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1513631318 734276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a concept like turing-complete that somehow ranks the fitness of a language for each purpose. like "functional-complete" would mean you dont have to bend over backward or accept slowdowns to do functional programming < 1513631410 898820 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:10de:21db:3975:fec7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1513631639 631808 :hkgit03!~hkgit03@ip4d16fea9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1513632261 112155 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1513632425 358639 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1513632516 852977 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we can simulate a Minsky-like machine with counters bounded by a fixed power of the input" => wait really? so you can compile at least all Chomsky-L2 languages? < 1513632546 543697 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what's "LBA-completeness"? < 1513632584 373849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lba < 1513632585 653964 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lba? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1513632674 551669 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn LBA//This channel is having a Little Big Adventure(tm) with Linear Bounded Automata in devices using Logical Block Addressing. < 1513632676 816631 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'lba': This channel is having a Little Big Adventure(tm) with Linear Bounded Automata in devices using Logical Block Addressing. < 1513632739 339740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes, LBAs are powerful enough to accept context-sensitive languages. < 1513632935 910336 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "Enchanted object has all names" => hmm, have I asked you yet how you'd modify your variant rule about object names since host and augment creatures are available? < 1513633116 686030 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Not as far as I know, but host/augment are Un-cards. I have made up some optional rules for use with non-Un-cards, although it isn't the same as the Unstable host/augment. < 1513633160 854564 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: eg. to affirm that an augmented Ninja Octopus doesn't have the same name as a two creature type Ninja Octopus token, and that there's no way to shut down an augment Steam-Powered Man with Pithing Needle. < 1513633163 37847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you do not want to do this, there is another simple alternative that works with my variant rules about object names: The name is an ordered pair. < 1513633272 835588 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear-bounded automata. ok. < 1513633282 123236 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether or not you can choose an ordered pair when asked to choose a name should be made consistent with official rules, if any. < 1513633311 719135 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're rarely asked to choose a name. usually you're asked to choose a card name. < 1513633342 429572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Search your library for a token named Fred. ) < 1513633408 731954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want to play with Un-cards, then you should ignore my variant rules for names anyways, which are not applicable to Un-cards. < 1513633452 995313 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. Pithing Needle and Cranial Extraction make you choose a card name < 1513633511 452447 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My First Tome might technically let you choose any name, but it doesn't make much sense to choose a name that isn't the name of a card < 1513633568 34966 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_____ also lets you choose any name, so I think you can make it named either Ninja Octopus the augmented permanent or Ninja Octopus the token < 1513633657 276653 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the frack? Unhinged was printed in a language other than English too? And not just one or a few exceptional cards, but many cards? < 1513633664 987741 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sure it was only printed in English. < 1513633736 583755 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think ____ is restricted to wear only card names by a Maro-unruling, but I don't obey those.) < 1513633737 652321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, I think my variant rules are not for use with Un-cards, which have their own rules for names anyways. < 1513633791 60175 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, of course, you don't have to pay any attention to this; you can make up different rules for Un-cards if everyone is agree, since in many cases no official rule helps anyways. < 1513633816 667461 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1513634297 721382 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513634384 144522 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1513634597 826903 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1513634638 468207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have also written rules for last strike before Unstable was announced, and they work a bit differently than the rules for last strike in Unstable. If you are using my custom cards together with Un-cards in a Un-cards game, then you should use the rules from Unstable instead. Otherwise, I think my rules are better.) < 1513635221 624157 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm. I'm not quite satisfied with either set of rules. Your rules imply that you can have a creature assign damage three times, the same way as it used to be possible to get a creature to assign combat damage twice by removing its first strike. < 1513635300 314809 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what do you suggest instead? < 1513635323 405469 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: although it's not easy, because you need to have a double-striking creature that doesn't have last strike during the normal combat damage step, but has last strike during the last strike step, and there are barely any cards that let you manipulate last strike. < 1513635336 831824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible I made a mistake in my description, and should correct it. < 1513635400 800984 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1513635502 527814 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure. I definitely don't know a good set of rules that can support triple strike, which one Unstable card requires. < 1513635511 997565 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that and last strike. < 1513635519 937642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the rules I wrote do not allow you to get a creature to assign combat damage twice by removing first strike. I looked at it now and it does not say that. < 1513635563 718695 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, I know. it's only the very old M:tG rules that allowed that sort of first strike abuse. < 1513635583 328488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My rules say that if a creature assigns damage during the first strike step, it can't assign damage during the normal strike step. < 1513635619 599434 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but your rules introduce a similar abuse of letting a creature deal combat damage three times by manipulating double strike and last strike. It's just that that's horribly difficult because we don't have the good tools for manipulating last strike, like auras. < 1513635731 562672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, you are right about that. < 1513635750 31673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I see what you mean. < 1513635767 448032 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: one data point: d : + , f : d - - - , then f is total, not clamped, but not quite always increasing. < 1513635847 198157 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to have a Wall of Lust, and cytoshape it to a Boros Swiftblade in the ordinary combat damage step. < 1513635867 695034 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1513635875 220897 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1513635877 143590 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards < 1513635886 236763 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1513635894 997382 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a Boros Swiftblade, and cytoshape it to a Wall of Lust in the ordinary combat damage step < 1513635956 559252 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : wob_jonas: Yes, LBAs are powerful enough to accept context-sensitive languages. <-- precisely same class iirc < 1513636215 176453 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 and 3 dimensional hardware parts arn't unique. Why not 4 dimensional hardware? :) < 1513636240 728442 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513636255 866187 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :slhelloffy < 1513636490 982395 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: do you count time as a dimension? < 1513636507 340207 :moony!~moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1513637134 869432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, precisely the same for decision problems < 1513637201 485341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "LBA" imply that? < 1513637217 444909 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably hunt down a formal definition. < 1513638267 699563 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1513638337 324637 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513638760 953806 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm wikipedia says LBAs can be nondeterministic. < 1513638801 77686 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not known whether that's more powerful. < 1513638876 916592 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to say anything about function problems. < 1513639066 465077 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what? really? < 1513639078 379933 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was known they're eqivalent and pretty easy to prove < 1513639109 840583 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1513639111 917659 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're non-deterministic by default, but that doesn't add anything new < 1513639194 444820 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the usual proof squares the required space, which works great for NPSPACE = DPSPACE, but not so well with a linear space bound. < 1513639231 897433 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm. < 1513639369 367639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitch%27s_theorem (I had forgotten the name) < 1513639452 737985 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bed calls < 1513639811 397105 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is bed's phone number? < 1513639852 993298 :wob_jonas!b03f1882@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: doesn't have one. calling from a public payphone. < 1513640124 960318 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1513640382 694255 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1513640581 844314 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...