←2017-12-22 2017-12-23 2017-12-24→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:08:01 <int-e> Taneb: fun, so why does... https://arin.ga/uEVn6I ... terminate?
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11:51:54 <int-e> Yay, there's a new generic source for malware in Germany, bealocalhost.de.
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12:09:36 <sdfgsdfg23> cant connect
12:09:54 <int-e> sdfgsdfg23: it resolves to :P
12:10:00 <sdfgsdfg23> oh
12:10:04 <sdfgsdfg23> silly me
12:11:43 <int-e> Which is a mild curiosity by itself. It gets interesting when you learn that "bea" is short for "besonderes Anwaltspostfach", an electronic mailbox for lawyers that's supposed to become mandatory in January.
12:12:41 <int-e> So why do they have that domain? Apparently, part of their client is a web service that runs locally. Which is something that browsers don't really like; you'll get lots of warnings. So they registered this domain.
12:13:54 <int-e> And then it gets embarrassing because browsers warn when you're not using SSL. So there's an SSL certificate for that domain. And the private key is shipped with the client. And... surprise!... somebody revoked the certificate on the 21st or 22nd of December :)
12:15:28 <Taneb> int-e, I can't really prove that it terminates, but the recursive calls to pred and succ in the definition of succ are always to much smaller numbers
12:16:50 <int-e> Taneb: Yes, I also believe that it terminates. However, I tried some automatic tools and they failed, and I don't have a complete paper proof either.
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13:13:43 * FireFly . o O ( be a localhost. yes, you too can now be a localhost! )
13:15:50 <int-e> FireFly: Yes, I liked that reading as well.
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13:21:56 <sdfgsdfg23> lawyers are assholes
13:22:00 <sdfgsdfg23> generally
13:22:20 <sdfgsdfg23> selfish
13:22:52 <sdfgsdfg23> damn one of you will sue my ass now
13:23:26 <sdfgsdfg23> unusual creatures
13:24:47 <ais523> ?
13:25:28 <int-e> sdfgsdfg23: I think you're overgeneralizing.
13:26:04 <ais523> int-e: that "certificate for" thing is, unfortunately, not the stupidest use of certificates I'm aware of
13:26:07 <ais523> although it's up there
13:26:48 <int-e> ais523: it is really stupid when you use the same certificate everywhere and then it gets revoked :P
13:27:36 <ais523> is "the private key became public" a sufficient reason for a CA to revoke unilaterally?
13:27:43 <ais523> or do they need permission from the key's owner?
13:27:58 <ais523> come to think of it, the private key might be enough on its own to create a revocation request
13:28:02 <int-e> And there really isn't a good fix. (What they are trying to do, by the looks of it, is to get all the lawyers install a custom CA certificate, which, presumably, will then be used to sign the individual bealocalhost.de certificates. There's no way that this can end well.)
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13:30:26 <ais523> ‎[13:29] ‎<‎ais523‎>‎ now I'm wondering if is inherently secure or if there's some way to inject packets to look like they come from there
13:30:27 <ais523> ‎[13:29] ‎<‎ais523‎>‎ I think it's possible to send an IP packet with a forged source address, isn't it? just it tends not to be useful because you won't get a reply
13:32:07 <int-e> well, properly configured routers and network stacks will not accept/forward such packages.
13:33:06 <ais523> yes, if the address claims to be most routers will be more than a little sceptical
13:33:07 <int-e> But I believe that there's no guarantee that a packet with a forged "from" address makes it to another host.
13:33:21 <int-e> ...I'm missing a negation.
13:33:29 <ais523> "huh, that packet's saying I sent it, that seems a little surprising"
13:38:01 <int-e> Yes, I think best practices say that you shouldn't accept such packets.
13:39:09 <\oren\_> what is the quality of music that makes it sound christmasy?
13:39:20 <\oren\_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8IWkC7tT44
13:41:37 * int-e eyes \oren\_ suspiciously and doesn't click.
13:52:36 <sdfgsdfg23> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVeWsxeG44U
14:03:43 <\oren\_> int-e: it's music from a game I've been playing, Xmas Shooting : Scramble!
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14:43:22 <wob_jonas> ais523: as far as I see, the localhost trick works like this. win32 doesn't have sane AF_LOCAL sockets for some reason, so either you write a non-portable program that uses crazy win32-specific IPC and will never work on windows, or you write unsafe shit that uses localhost and will be secure only as long as there's only one user on your computer.
14:43:53 <wob_jonas> So now we got a lot of lazy programs that use localhost tcp communications and assume they're secure, despite that in most of them, any other user on the host can just make them misbehave.
14:44:14 <wob_jonas> Even on windows, it's sort of the easiest way to do IPC, which is why even non-portable programs do that.
14:44:45 <ais523> wob_jonas: why would that need an SSL certificate, though?
14:44:59 <wob_jonas> ais523: to pacify browsers when there's a combination with an external site involved, I'd guess
14:45:32 <wob_jonas> ais523: it's even worse with browsers because when you view local pages, the browser just has to assume it's all secure, and can't distinguish between different things you download and view locally
14:47:48 <ais523> wob_jonas: I mean, browsers don't use AF_LOCAL sockets either
14:47:57 <wob_jonas> no wait, the local files aren't relevant
14:48:03 <wob_jonas> you're saying the certificate is for localhost
14:48:27 <wob_jonas> then I guess it's a webpage served as a combination between localhost and some remote host
14:48:43 <wob_jonas> with some local program acting as a http server involved
14:48:49 <wob_jonas> and the browser wants the combination to be all https
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16:52:57 <wob_jonas> debian now has vanilla ffmpeg, not just their avconv clone? nice
16:53:10 <wob_jonas> it's good to say these sorts of forks getting smoothed out
16:53:57 <wob_jonas> about the only other time this has happened was with eglibc, a fork that's ended now that they fixed their disputes with glibc and made one glibc that does what everyone wants
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17:48:58 <esowiki> [[Decimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53656&oldid=52035 * MD XF * (+724)
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18:54:19 <zzo38> I have a book from library that mentions outguess stuff. They mention multiple choice test, and it seem maybe the people who design the test could use a computer to help to make it harder to guess.
18:54:44 <zzo38> They also mention falsified financial data; it also seem like you could write a computer program to help you to cheat at it.
18:56:54 <zzo38> They also mention Shannon's outguessing machine, and that he was the only person who could win. And then they described how we win, which is what I expected; he was able to carry out the program mentally, to know how the machine is working.
18:58:44 <zzo38> And in many of cases being mentioned, using dice might also be of some help.
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18:59:43 <zzo38> (Unless the government sells biased dice in order to more easily spy on people, but then the people can easily expose them doing so.)
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22:12:28 <oerjan> <\oren\_> what is the quality of music that makes it sound christmasy? <-- not being japanese is a start hth
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22:36:12 <oerjan> . o O ( the trout is out there )
22:36:20 <trout> oerjan: ?
22:36:42 <Taneb> ( no-one things this way ) O o .
22:37:10 <oerjan> Taneb: maybe japanese do
22:37:24 <Taneb> Perhaps!
22:37:55 <Taneb> In other news I finished the first chapter of the HoTT book just now
22:38:12 <Taneb> I'll find some paper and start the exercises tomorrow!
22:38:15 <trout> HoTT?
22:38:37 <trout> o
22:38:37 <trout> https://homotopytypetheory.org/book/
22:38:43 <Taneb> Yeah, that is the one!
22:38:59 <Taneb> I got myself a physical copy (because paper is so nice)
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22:43:47 <fizzie> I wonder how many book authors think about the abbreviating (and making sure they don't accidentally conflict with an existing book) when it comes to choosing the title.
22:46:11 <Taneb> Like my upcoming book, These Ants on Chess Pieces
22:48:09 <Taneb> (note: this is not actually a book I am writing or will be writing)
22:56:03 <shachaf> These Ants. Thants.
22:59:48 <fizzie> Taneb: Is it just macro lens photos of ants on chess pieces?
23:02:04 <Taneb> fizzie, possible
23:02:07 <Taneb> *possibly
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23:15:31 <fizzie> The smoke just came out of my amplifier. :/
23:15:48 <fizzie> There was a flash, a bang, and orange flames.
23:15:57 <fizzie> And a thin wisp of smoke.
23:16:27 <fizzie> Sad occasion. I liked that thing.
23:18:10 <shachaf> That smoke is sealed in there pretty well, but fire usually gets it out
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