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Got SIGABRT, dying...). 00:42:38 -!- erkin has joined. 00:45:30 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 00:45:54 -!- erkin has joined. 01:00:43 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 01:01:09 -!- erkin has joined. 01:08:57 -!- S1R has joined. 01:09:23 -!- S1R has quit (Client Quit). 01:09:41 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:33 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number). 01:13:58 -!- erkin has joined. 01:16:58 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 01:17:24 -!- erkin has joined. 01:20:20 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:23:47 [[PL/MIX]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53802 * B jonas * (+1065) Created page with "'''PL/MIX''' would have been a programming language that runs on the [[MIX (Knuth)|MIX]] computer. Donald Knuth would have described and implemented PL/MIX in The Art of Comp..." 01:24:17 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53803&oldid=53659 * B jonas * (+13) 01:24:54 b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth 01:26:39 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 01:26:46 ais523: I don't think you can make it. 01:28:00 well, describe, at least 01:33:00 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number). 01:33:26 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:35:12 -!- erkin has joined. 01:36:47 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:39:44 I would still want to see PL/MIX. 01:40:31 We can also "describe" the ideal ancient C-like language that was the divine inspiration for prophets K&R, which got a bit distorted in their transcription. It would be rather similar to C, but the bitwise binary operators would probably have a higher precedence than the comparison operators. 01:40:42 That probably isn't the only difference. 01:41:23 wob_jonas: the compound assignment operators had the = first 01:41:26 as in a =+ b 01:41:33 ais523: no way 01:41:34 (note that in present C, that + would be a unary +) 01:41:42 that would be ambiguous 01:41:43 I assume it was changed due to being ambiguous 01:41:47 you often want to write =- 01:41:56 I think it was =+ before 01:42:05 but the ideal language probably uses += because =+ is ambiguous 01:42:06 although as it's an abbreviation for a = a + b, abbreviating to =+ makes sense 01:42:11 well, =- is ambiguous at least 01:42:19 I think the original pre-ansi C didn't have a monadic + 01:42:20 oh, I see, I thought you were just talking about pre-standardisation C 01:42:33 no 01:42:53 I consider K&R prophets who didn't invent the language, but described the language God thought of 01:43:12 only they aren't perfect prophets, so they made some mistakes where they misunderstood the language God described to them in their prophetic visions 01:43:38 and the precedence of bitwise vs comparison is one of those mistakes, but it's too late to change now 01:44:08 C is a pretty awkward language anyway 01:44:18 it's meant to be close to the processor except processors don't work like that nowadays 01:44:39 the goal of that language is more or less the same as the goal of C, that is, being a simple then-high-level language that is easy to compile to any computer of that time, but allows writing portable programs among them 01:44:49 ais523: yes, exactly 01:44:53 it was close to processors at that time 01:45:14 that said, modern CPUs aren't even close to Checkout (which is fairly close to modern /G/PUs) 01:45:15 was still quite close to 386 actually, in both 16-bit and 32-bit mode 01:45:27 what's "Checkout"? 01:45:40 esolang 01:45:46 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout 01:46:02 oh, that one 01:46:15 right, that's supposed to be close to GPUs, not to CPUs 01:46:45 that's not close to CPUs by design 01:46:53 different goal 01:46:55 well modern CPUs are more like Checkout than they are like C 01:46:58 but they aren't that close to either 01:47:08 I would want to see a implementation of Checkout that can run on GPUs 01:47:55 it probably compiles into both Cuda and OpenCL fairly directly 01:49:52 (Adding sine, cosine, and arctangent, and perhaps vector ops, and conditional set; do a few thing like ARB assembly language (although ARB assembly language is missing a arctangent function).) 01:50:25 zzo38: Checkout effectively has vector operations 01:50:49 just do a level 1 command inside a parloop 01:51:32 O, that's how you do it. But then if you need to combine with dot products? 01:53:41 zzo38: level 1 has more than one word of memory (although it only has a few), there's enough space to do dot products there on most GPUs 01:54:12 if not, say, you're trying to sum a vector whose elements were calculated in parallel, you use checkout/2 to shift the memory around and do a sort of binary tree sum 01:54:26 s/say, you're/say you're/ 01:54:39 zzo38: sine, cosine, and arctangent really aren't low-level commands appropriate for a language like checkout, I think. they're more like something you could implement as various library functions. 01:55:12 that's also true for modern CPUs by the way, and there are lots of library implementations 01:55:16 wob_jonas: I wouldn't be surprised if modern GPUs had built-in trig lookups 01:55:17 The wiki article does say that it may include trigonometric functions and exponents, but not yet 01:55:42 ais523: they might have built-in ops that help, but not a full precise sine for every possible input I think 01:55:57 at least that's my guess 01:56:05 wob_jonas: the built-in impl is probably something along the lines of fast inverse square root 01:56:12 there are probably various library implementations of course 01:56:17 except it's faster if you do it in hardware and have a lookup to help 01:56:43 ais523: yes, but inverse square root (and even square root) is totally so much easier to compute than sine or arctangent 01:56:53 and faster 01:57:47 at least if you compute the inverse square root and square root with hardware help, which is what you do these days 01:58:55 dunno really, I don't do gpus 01:59:16 `addquote b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth 01:59:18 1318) b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth 01:59:34 helloerjan 01:59:57 I don't know much about GPU either, but Checkout look like it can be good. 02:01:22 I have done programs in ARB assembly language, but found a few things I thought should have been done differently, such as, I would have thought using SSA would be better than what it currently does; I also thought it was missing a arctangent function. 02:02:30 (Also there is no integer mode; due to this, some things are complicated to implement properly.) 02:06:25 hellonas 02:10:59 hmm, now I sort-of want to make an esolang whose purpose is to be vaporware 02:11:17 have a logo, grand claims about what it does, lots of documentation about governance and coding style and the like 02:11:21 but no actual specification or implementation 02:12:00 the great thing about this language is that as soon as anyone comes up with the concept of it, it by definition exists, because if it's ever completed it's completed and if it isn't completed it's vaporware, thus fulfils its own definition 02:12:11 -!- boily has joined. 02:12:18 bohejly 02:12:32 bonsœirjan! 02:12:46 * oerjan whistles innocently in a familiar jazz tune 02:12:51 :D 02:13:55 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:14:18 wow, I just played the BF Derivatives Game for the first time in years, and scored only 2 (which is a very good score) 02:14:38 I think the average quality of the wiki is improving :-D 02:14:56 (PPCG even complained that we didn't have enough BF substitutions, although admittedly they were just looking for easy adds to the polyglot) 02:14:57 the PPCG people are helping 02:15:05 heh 02:15:26 oerjan: did you see that Ursala got added? 02:15:31 IMO the polyglot is now redeemed 02:15:47 good, good 02:15:51 yes i did 02:15:52 also, the current Ursala docs make it fairly clear that the author has come to terms with the fact that it's actually an esolang 02:16:01 i upvote nearly every addition to that one. 02:16:24 is ursala an esolang or not. 02:16:27 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:16:33 boily: yes. 02:17:19 boily: it was originally a borderline case but I think the author has finally admitted it's an esolang 02:17:34 even originally it was described as being very experimental syntax-wise 02:18:45 thoerjan, thais523. 02:19:40 it looks like über-compressed golfing imho. 02:19:48 ybwoily 02:20:50 boily: it's like a cross between two languages 02:21:00 a pointer language, which looks like golflangs but is actually much more inefficient than that 02:21:10 and a more general language around it, which looks more like perl 6 02:22:00 Experimental and esoteric are pretty orthogonal, aren't they? 02:22:17 I guess so? 02:22:24 writing experimental languages is my day job 02:22:37 and I often try to make them as non-eso as possible to not scare people off 02:22:48 but my esoprogramming skills are helpful in actually writing programs in the languages I create 02:22:58 helloochaf. I would've thought they're p. much parallel, no? 02:43:07 . o O ( general position ) 02:47:20 anyway, a challenge I've been thinking a lot about recently: design an esolang so that the size of programs in the language, plus the size of the interpreter, is in general as small as possible 02:47:52 The interpreter in what language? 02:47:56 this is intended for programs that are fairly large on modern systems as typical executables, in the hundreds of megabytes range 02:48:14 shachaf: arbitrary languages, i.e. the interpreter is small compared to the size of the programs and easy to port 02:48:23 most likely various dialects of machine code though 02:56:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FORMERLY CHICKEN). 02:59:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:59:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:18:06 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! 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Got SIGABRT, dying...). 03:42:08 -!- erkin has joined. 03:42:11 -!- ATMunn has joined. 04:01:53 hakatashi1: whoops i've forgotten to unban you 04:01:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 04:02:13 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b hakatashi!*@*$#fix_your_connection. 04:02:14 -!- hakatashi1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:26 very promising. 04:02:32 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 04:02:34 -!- hakatashi has joined. 04:02:48 there. 04:11:08 -!- n3tx has joined. 04:11:20 -!- n3tx has left ("Leaving"). 04:52:21 -!- tromp has joined. 04:57:20 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:14:41 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:27:50 -!- Cale has joined. 05:30:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:46:44 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 06:10:29 did you know that this is a thing 06:10:32 📈 06:10:43 ,unidecode 📈 06:10:55 aww no bot? 06:10:57 ok :C 06:11:24 'unidecode 📈 06:11:31 -!- propumpkin has joined. 06:11:34 `unidecode 📈 06:11:35 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:11:36 ​[U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND] 06:39:21 -!- garit has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:57:11 . o O ( ah the bitcoin symbol ) 07:00:30 `unicode CHART 07:00:31 U+1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 b9 UTF-16BE: d83ddcb9 Decimal: 💹 \ 💹 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND \ UTF-8: f0 9f 93 88 UTF-16BE: d83ddcc8 Decimal: 📈 \ 📈 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F4C9 07:00:52 hm i see no yen 07:01:33 `` unicode CHART | grep CHART 07:01:35 U+1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN \ U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND \ U+1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND \ U+1F4CA BAR CHART \ U+1F5E0 STOCK CHART 07:03:06 -!- garit has joined. 07:03:06 -!- garit has quit (Changing host). 07:03:06 -!- garit has joined. 07:39:18 -!- tromp has joined. 07:44:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:36:25 If you live close enough to Knuth can you ask him about PL/MIX and XMIX? 08:38:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:39:04 just tell him you're correcting a mistake in the book 08:40:59 zzo38: Why don't you send him mail? 08:41:36 However if you aren't careful he'll write another book about it 08:43:08 shachaf: I tried once and have not received a reply for several years. (But I know his secretary received it because the man who delivered it said so.) 08:43:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:49:32 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:43 -!- atslash has joined. 09:09:31 -!- tromp has joined. 09:10:49 I got responses to emails via his secretary 09:14:33 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 09:19:33 -!- tromp has joined. 09:20:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:21:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:22:57 [[Symbolic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53804&oldid=47226 * Zzo38 * (+104) Some additions and corrections 09:33:12 [[Two]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53805&oldid=40308 * Zzo38 * (+49) Add categories 09:39:24 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 09:54:38 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:05:50 -!- tromp has joined. 10:16:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:22:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:26:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:43:25 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:45:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 10:54:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:56:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:03:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:11:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:15:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:17:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:34:41 -!- boily has joined. 11:49:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:55:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:55:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:58:14 ais523: if Ursala turned out to be an esolang, then should the wiki get a page on it? 12:02:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:09:18 @metar CYUL 12:09:18 CYUL 121200Z 15015KT 8SM -RA SCT040 BKN075 OVC100 07/06 A2972 RMK SC4AC2AC2 SLP068 12:14:03 boily: I have replaced http://downthetypehole.de/paste/So5kdG0C by http://downthetypehole.de/paste/nokKZ5De which even has some suggestive comments that are readable :) 12:15:29 int-ello! 12:15:42 comments! readability! ^^ 12:22:49 Obviously we have to be careful, or else we'll go on the slippery slope and add an entry for every programming language because someone considers it esoteric. It would start with APL-likes and perl, then prolog, cobol, php, awk, bash, haskell, common lisp, and eventually we'd get to even the saner languages like java and C and fortran. 12:24:49 . o O ( Category: Nonesoteric ) 12:28:52 php is esoteric? D: 12:29:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DRIVEN CHICKEN). 12:30:31 @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language 12:30:31 Consider it noted. 12:38:10 -!- garit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:41:46 -!- u1 has joined. 12:47:21 int-e: hehe 12:48:09 whereas perl started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, but it never became a programming language 12:49:49 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 12:51:00 -!- propumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:51:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 13:05:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 13:09:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:13:35 -!- garit has joined. 13:13:35 -!- garit has quit (Changing host). 13:13:35 -!- garit has joined. 13:16:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:23:53 ``` echo wisdom/procra* 13:23:54 wisdom/procrasti wisdom/procrastination 13:23:58 `? procrasti 13:23:59 The Procrasti were an ancient people whose nation would have been a great empire if they'd ever got around to it. 13:24:01 `? procrastination 13:24:02 The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube. 13:24:40 "New Year's Resolution: do all my procrastination right now — don't keep putting it off." -- John Baez at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/diary/january_2018.html 14:00:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:27:59 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/make-love -- ah yes. a comic about the openssl changes that aren't source-compatible and retroactively introduce bugs in existing applications unless the maintainer very carefully re-reads the entire fucking manual at the major version bump. if you don't want to re-read it, you can never upgrade the major version of openssl, but the old version isn't maintained anymore. 14:33:58 https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/rivals-ixalan-update-bulletin-2018-01-11 M:tG, Rivals of Ixalan Update Bulletin 15:08:35 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:07:28 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:32:09 -!- erkin has joined. 16:37:25 -!- prooftechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 16:37:26 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split). 16:37:39 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 16:38:06 -!- lynn has joined. 17:05:55 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:19:29 -!- erkin has joined. 17:44:36 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 17:54:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:11:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:11:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:11:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:27:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:27:42 -!- erkin has joined. 18:31:21 -!- augur has joined. 18:34:26 -!- jix has quit (Quit: moving servers). 18:43:15 -!- jix has joined. 18:56:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:06:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:07:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:16:17 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:04 -!- int-e has joined. 19:19:10 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:21:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:22:31 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:29:57 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:31:11 -!- arrveyyi has joined. 19:37:19 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:37:45 -!- erkin has joined. 19:39:08 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:19:58 @nixon 20:19:58 It is necessary for me to establish a winner image. Therefore, I have to beat somebody. 20:30:42 -!- u1__ has joined. 20:33:57 -!- u1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:36:47 -!- u1__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:37:32 [[3switchBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53806&oldid=40847 * Mr Meems * (-1) Proofing 21:07:31 -!- sprocklem has joined. 21:28:29 -!- garit has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:46:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:34:16 -!- u1 has joined. 22:39:53 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:44:03 -!- boily has joined. 22:50:46 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 22:51:55 -!- erkin has joined. 22:55:14 -!- moony has joined. 23:07:00 -!- arrveyyi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:15:34 -!- u1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:19:48 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:41:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:57:22 bonsœirjan! 23:57:27 @massages-loud 23:57:27 int-e said 11h 26m 55s ago: arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language 23:58:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.