2018-02-01:

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01:15:30 <oerjan> @messages-cloudy
01:15:30 <lambdabot> int-e said 13h 24m 35s ago: Oh GG... could it be love?
01:15:50 <oerjan> @ask int-e wat.
01:15:50 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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01:25:54 <boily> . o O ( is there such a thing as a loud massage? )
01:41:09 <oerjan> helloily. obviously.
01:41:17 <shachaf> boily: thoily
01:41:27 <shachaf> Though I think this YSAC was lacking.
01:42:16 <oerjan> my mom had an electric massager, that did make some noise.
01:42:57 <oerjan> . o O ( no, it was really for massaging. stop your filthy thinking. )
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01:54:11 <boily> helloochaf! it had pepper pepper pepper.
02:08:07 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53934 * Camto * (+2401) Actually create the page
02:11:47 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53935&oldid=53934 * Camto * (+70) Categories are cool.
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02:13:49 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53936&oldid=53935 * Camto * (-8) 
02:15:02 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53937&oldid=53936 * Camto * (-1) whoops
02:25:41 <esowiki> [[User:Camto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53938 * Camto * (+260) My page.
02:28:27 <boily> `5 w
02:28:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:turing//Turing is what you are doing when you Tur. \ coffee//Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic. \ mad//This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. \ astronomy//Astronomy is the s
02:28:34 <boily> `n
02:28:35 <HackEgo> 2/2:tudy of stars, such as Julia Child and Gordon Ramsay, typically through long-distance viewing devices. Despite the name, it does not involve the study of the astrointestinal tract. \ friend//friend is a portmanteau of fritter and rend
02:29:00 <esowiki> [[User:Camto]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53939&oldid=53938 * Camto * (+103) github link
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11:47:44 <int-e> @tell oerjan Dupree and Gil.
11:47:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
11:49:51 <boily> int-ello. eh?
11:51:55 <int-e> boily: I did ask whether it could be love.
11:52:56 <boily> wasn't Gil supposed to Agatha? I haven't GG in quite a while...
11:54:35 <int-e> boily: look at the last panel of the most recent GG
11:54:42 <int-e> that's all I have
11:55:25 <boily> oh.
12:02:27 <int-e> But it's so uncharacteristic for Dupree to show any kind of concern at all that I'm wondering.
12:08:11 <Taneb> I think she holds a lot of affection for Gil, not sure if it's romantic love
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19:24:51 <zseri> hi
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19:28:56 <zseri> hi again
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21:14:05 <zseri> bye
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22:57:44 <boily> @massages-loud
22:57:45 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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23:58:06 <Sgeo> A library I wrote was mentioned in some paper about proving libraries safe
23:58:52 <Sgeo> https://gitlab.mpi-sws.org/FP/LambdaRust-coq/tree/eec05e0aa61e2e8346ab380d0930bbaca4cc1a31

2018-02-02:

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00:50:00 <oerjan> @messages-found
00:50:00 <lambdabot> int-e said 13h 2m 16s ago: Dupree and Gil.
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00:57:31 <david_werecat> !zjoust MV http://www.text-share.com/view/raw/c66947a6
00:57:31 <zemhill_> david_werecat.MV: points 14.10, score 36.65, rank 3/47
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03:00:03 <zzo38> Hello
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04:11:15 <zzo38> I read a book in library written by both Chopra and Mlodinow. I found a review, which look good to me, although the review misspelled Mlodinow's name in the title (the text of the review does not have the same error). The review says, they ask: what deep truth does science tell us about the world? I agree what the reviewer wrote, which is that, it doesn't. I agree with Laplace.
04:11:54 <zzo38> As the reviewer wrote: The scientific response to this metaphysics is what Laplace said, it is, "I have no need of that hypothesis."
04:15:21 <zzo38> I agree when Mlodinow says, we are the biological machine governed by the same laws that govern Pluto. But, that isn't a "deep truth" about anything, and isn't the metaphysical question. Metaphysics is the philosophical question, and it is different. It helps to not be confused between metaphysics and science, I think. Do you think?
04:17:54 <zzo38> (But, I don't know if you have any interest in philosophy or not; well, I do, and I have a book "There are two errors in the the title of this book" about philosophy. One thing they say is that, you can write a serious philosophical book consisting entirely of jokes, and also that you can write a serious philosophical book consisting entirely of questions (without answers). That book isn't those things, though.)
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04:25:46 <zzo38> (Although it look to me a lot of what Chopra wrote is confused, still there are a few good points. Especially if you are writing a debate, there are going to be some points on both sides.)
04:35:13 <shachaf> `5 w
04:35:18 <HackEgo> 1/1:we//We are the champions. \ dew//In the Famous Mountains of York, Taneb makes dew. \ jit//JIT is just in time. \ despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ twnh//twnh is dubious hambiguitous help that will or will not be help. It is provided by a toe with no hair.
04:45:37 <zemhill_> david_werecat.MV: points 14.90, score 38.01, rank 3/47 (--)
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06:53:39 <zzo38> Do you know anything about how to read the correct extents from an embroidery file? What I have currently, the picture is off centre and is cut off.
06:54:25 <zzo38> (This suggests I am starting at the wrong coordinates, but I do not know how to determine the correct starting coordinates.)
07:13:55 <zzo38> (Actually, I found some mistakes; I can try again now)
07:15:35 <zzo38> Now I got the positioning correct, although the colours are now wrong.
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08:20:42 <zzo38> The shape is correct now, but the colours are wrong. I found two different lists of colours, and neither seems to match the expected colours. I get blue where red is expected, orange where blue is expected, and purple where yellow is expected; green is correct, though. I checked the thread numbers and they seem to specify these wrong colours. Do you know what is wrong? (The channels are in the correct order; I checked.)
08:31:13 <zzo38> (The problem may be the files I downloaded at first are defective; I tried other files, and they have the correct colours.)
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09:57:58 <int-e> Have I done this before? Does ^(.*[^ab].*|.*((aa|bb)....................b|(ab|ba)....................a).*|b?(bb)?(bbbb)?(bbbbbbbb)?(bbbbbb)?(b?|a.*)|.*ab?(bb)?(bbbb)?(bbbbbbbb)?(bbbbbb)?)$ accept all possible strings (i.e., the same as ^.*$)?
09:59:25 <shachaf> Is this produced as a complement or something like that?
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11:02:16 <int-e> shachaf: it's a complement of something, yes.
11:03:32 <int-e> (this isn't as facetious as it probably sounds... thinking about the complement is the right way to make sense of the r.e.)
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11:43:56 <boily> `5 w
11:44:02 <HackEgo> 1/2:snap//Snap is a simple web development framework for unix systems, written in the Haskell programming language. Snap has a high level of test coverage and is well-documented. \ oya yakuman//We don't know what an oya yakuman is, but based on boily's reaction, it must be quite painful. \ kmc//kmc did not run the International Devious Code C
11:44:03 <boily> `n
11:44:04 <HackEgo> 2/2:ontest of 2013. \ portugoose//Peça ganso assado com natas. \ ci//The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
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13:29:14 <wob_jonas> wait, just how many groups are there who have invented Taneb?
13:29:28 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -i 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
13:29:39 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/8: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/biweekly: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, vill
13:29:58 <wob_jonas> yeah yeah, shut up
13:30:10 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
13:30:11 <HackEgo> wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, villages in Norway, and inventors of all things. Taneb invented it. \ wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. \ w
13:30:33 <wob_jonas> `2 ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
13:30:34 <HackEgo> 2/1:
13:30:51 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+2
13:30:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. \ wisdom/deniability:Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ wisdom/fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing 
13:31:02 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+4
13:31:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing not involving sex, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing not involving sex that Taneb did not invent. \ wisdo
13:31:21 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+5
13:31:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/go:Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia. \ wisdom/grace period:The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma. \ wisdom/lambek's lemma:Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lamb
13:31:36 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+7
13:31:37 <HackEgo> wisdom/lambek's lemma:Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses. It can be proved with as few as five arrows. \ wisdom/nih:NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb. \ wisdom/noooooooodle:Noooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. \ w
13:31:46 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+9
13:31:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/nooooooooodle:Nooooooooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. \ wisdom/progres:Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. \ wisdom/real:The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. \ wisdom/taneb:Taneb is not elliott
13:31:58 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+12
13:32:00 <HackEgo> wisdom/taneb:Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventi
13:32:09 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+13
13:32:11 <HackEgo> wisdom/tetris:Tetris is where Soviet Russia was invented. Taneb was not present although Triangle and Robert were. \ wisdom/the reals:The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. \ wisdom/the universe:The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
13:32:41 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+16
13:32:43 <HackEgo> No output.
13:32:52 <wob_jonas> so only the CI
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15:13:10 <zseri> hi
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16:53:58 <esowiki> [[User:Mr. Xcoder]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53940&oldid=52840 * Mr. Xcoder * (+254) Added more relevant information about myself
16:55:17 <esowiki> [[User:Mr. Xcoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53941&oldid=53940 * Mr. Xcoder * (+24) 
16:55:54 <esowiki> [[User:Mr. Xcoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53942&oldid=53941 * Mr. Xcoder * (+5) 
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17:35:23 <zseri__> https://github.com/zserik/zsdbp5/commit/5af8d5f2240ef1187639fc1e8b9721148c41a5b1
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19:17:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Mdvarga *  New user account
19:21:17 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53943&oldid=53899 * Mdvarga * (+289) /* Introductions */
19:22:45 <esowiki> [[THRAT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53944&oldid=50026 * Mdvarga * (-3) Updated my name. I used to go by Matthew in early 2000s but have since embraced using my actual Hungarian name: Mate (which translates to Matthew).
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20:22:26 <mroman> blsq ) begin lisp (?+ 3 2) end lisp
20:22:27 <mroman> 5
20:24:14 <mroman> muahahah!
20:27:12 <mroman> although try parsing in parsec is kinda sucky
20:27:13 <mroman> because
20:27:20 <mroman> if there's a syntax error in (try parseLisp)
20:27:22 <mroman> it won't show it
20:27:27 <mroman> but then it tries to parse something else
20:27:28 <mroman> and
20:27:36 <mroman> pretty much every bullshit is valid in burlesque :D
20:31:10 <mroman> wasn't there a quote
20:31:11 <mroman> `quote
20:31:12 <HackEgo> 978) <elliott> prediction: kmc never comes back  * kmc has joined #esoteric
20:31:16 <mroman> `quote moo
20:31:17 <HackEgo> 26) <zzo38> I am not on the moon. \ 204) <Phantom_Hoover> [...] reyouthismootherate [...] \ 439) <Phantom_Hoover> OK, Taneb's been taken by a mood and he needs raw emeralds.  <Phantom_Hoover> It's been fun knowing him. \ 454) <zzo38> What is miff-muffered moof?  <itidus20> that's a tough question \ 513) <elliott> When the moon hits your eye like a 
20:31:22 <mroman> `quote burlesque
20:31:23 <HackEgo> 1216) <mroman_> piece of cake doing this stuff in Burlesque :P [19 lines later] <mroman_> I hate Burlesque :(
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20:34:01 <wob_jonas> mroman: how does that syntax even work?
20:34:30 <wob_jonas> the begin lisp thing
20:34:37 <wob_jonas> that makes no sense
20:35:48 <wob_jonas> blsq) 10rn
20:36:03 <wob_jonas> blsq: 10rn
20:36:13 <wob_jonas> blsq ) 11 rn
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20:42:48 <mroman> wob_jonas: there's no blsq bot here
20:42:59 <wob_jonas> mroman: yeah, I noticed
20:43:03 <wob_jonas> still, that's a strange syntax
20:43:12 <mroman> how does it work?
20:43:15 <mroman> why wouldn't it work?
20:43:18 <wob_jonas> is "be" a command that does that magic?
20:43:22 <mroman> no
20:43:26 <wob_jonas> or is half of that just unnecessary?\
20:44:05 <mroman> begin lisp (be)gin 2 2 end lisp
20:44:09 <mroman> ^- this is valid blsq code
20:44:21 <mroman> it parses as {be gi n  li sp (be) gi n  2 2 en d  li sp}
20:44:38 <mroman> burlesque has a lot of "trial and error" parsing
20:44:51 <mroman> if the stuff between begin lisp ... end lisp isn't valid lisp
20:44:54 <mroman> it will parse it as regular syntax
20:45:17 <wob_jonas> right, but what does the begin lisp part do? is it just a long thing that happens to be a nop?
20:45:32 <mroman> "begin lisp" doesn't do anything... it's syntax.
20:45:41 <mroman> it's not a command or anything.
20:45:47 <mroman> it's "grammar"/syntax
20:46:18 <mroman> the parser will parse stuff between begin lisp ... end lisp differently
20:47:04 <mroman> be could still be a command
20:48:10 <mroman> blsq ) %be=1 %gi=1 %n.={?+} begin.
20:48:10 <mroman> 2
20:49:08 <mroman> the thing is
20:49:17 <mroman> "begin " isn't valid
20:49:31 <mroman> because it would parse as "be gi" and then the 'n' is missing another character
20:49:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Rascus *  New user account
20:49:57 <mroman> so "begin " isn't valid in regular syntax 
20:51:11 <wob_jonas> blsq ) begin haskell [8..14] >>= \x -> if odd x then { take (repeat x) (x - 7) } else { [] } end haskell begin perl @p=(0,1); push@p,2*$p[-2]+$p[-1] for 2..11;\@p end perl ++
20:51:42 <wob_jonas> mroman: so what you're saying is that begin lisp is special syntax for something, but in some case the parser backtracks and falls back to trying to interpret it as not special syntax?
20:51:50 <mroman> exactly.
20:51:51 <wob_jonas> but... WHY? why would you do that to a language?
20:52:03 <wob_jonas> and what does begin lisp actually do when it parses correctly?
20:52:15 <mroman> oh wait. 
20:52:17 <mroman> "n " is valid
20:52:18 <mroman> wtf
20:52:46 <mroman> oh
20:52:46 <mroman> right
20:52:48 <mroman> :D
20:52:49 <wob_jonas> you mean you don't know all the builtins by heart?
20:52:58 <mroman> this is burlesque
20:53:05 <mroman> do you have any idea how much stuff there is in it?
20:53:17 <wob_jonas> yeah, I know
20:53:18 <mroman> well either way
20:53:20 <mroman> yes
20:53:25 <wob_jonas> it would be surprising if you remembered it all
20:53:30 <mroman> if it sees a "b" it will try to parse a lisp stuff
20:53:32 <mroman> and then backtrack
20:53:44 <mroman> or however parsec's "try" works
20:53:49 <mroman> maybe it looks forward more than one character
20:53:52 <wob_jonas> I forget what half of the functions I write do in smaller projects too
20:54:15 <wob_jonas> ok, but what is lisp stuff in this case?
20:54:23 <mroman> there are also more than two character commands now
20:54:49 <wob_jonas> what? were you in danger of running out of two character combos?
20:54:55 <mroman> blsq ) ``abcde
20:54:56 <mroman>  ERROR: Unknown command: (abcde)!
20:55:20 <mroman> no
20:55:30 <mroman> but it's some internal trickery to deal with user defined commands
20:55:35 <mroman> and user defined commands may be longer than that.
20:55:43 <mroman> also some trickery for the fancy mode
20:55:47 <mroman> there's fancy mode and lisp mode now
20:56:49 <mroman> blsq ) fancy def add: \?+ end add(1,2) end
20:56:49 <mroman> 3
20:57:16 <wob_jonas> um
20:57:29 <wob_jonas> well that sounds like a language that is more esoteric than needs to be for a golf language
20:57:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53945&oldid=53943 * Rascus * (+157) /* Introductions */
20:57:39 <esowiki> [[Tome]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53946&oldid=46411 * Rascus * (+85) Added link to GitHub repository
20:57:52 <mroman> burlesque isn't a golf language
20:58:46 <wob_jonas> what
20:58:53 <mroman> I didn't write it for that purpose at least.
20:58:59 <mroman> not initially
20:59:51 <mroman> it was more as a homework solving tool
21:00:01 <mroman> that's why it also can do poisson distributions and chi squared tests and shit
21:00:34 <wob_jonas> ok
21:01:25 <mroman> but it proved to be fun for golfing too
21:01:35 <mroman> so some stuff was added to make programs shorter
21:01:44 <mroman> like one character swap command
21:02:31 <mroman> but then I decided to just add as much stuff as possible
21:02:50 <mroman> because yes
21:02:59 <mroman> I didn't want it to become one of those just golfing languages
21:03:14 <wob_jonas> Is there a hello-world builtin?
21:03:24 <mroman> there was Golfscript, Flogscript, Burlesque and then a few years ago there are hundreds of golfing languages now
21:03:27 <mroman> no, there isn't.
21:03:50 <mroman> such a builtin wouldn't have any useful purpose
21:03:57 <wob_jonas> It would, for golf
21:04:03 <wob_jonas> that might show it's not a golf language
21:04:21 <mroman> well... even if you make golf language
21:04:28 <mroman> adding a hw builtin is just plain stupid
21:04:41 <mroman> you waste one character to solve ONE problem
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21:04:51 <mroman> you're better of making it something usefol that can solve MANY problems shorter
21:05:00 <mroman> *useful
21:05:27 <wob_jonas> I don't think it is. There are multiple golf exercises that involve some variation of hello world. Obviously you'd want a somewhat versatile command, not a one-character command that prints "hello world" and exits, but one that can return variations of that string, and it needn't be one character.
21:06:02 <mroman> meh. those would be boring challenges anyway
21:06:49 <mroman> still stupid imo :D
21:07:20 <mroman> the whole point of golfing isn't to have the shortest program in some language
21:07:25 <mroman> it's the competition.
21:07:49 <mroman> where's the satisfaction?
21:08:05 <mroman> there's a challenge to print "HELLO, WORLD!" and you have a hw builtin that takes an argument
21:08:18 <mroman> and 9hw prints "HELLO, WORLD!" 0hw print "Hello, world!" etc.
21:08:36 <mroman> that's just plain boring.
21:09:20 <mroman> the fun in golfing was to come up with crazy ideas like clock (he's a genius golfer) to solve a problem
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21:24:18 <wob_jonas> that's not the only way you can enjoy golf, but sure
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21:41:55 <zseri__> https://travis-ci.org/zserik
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23:05:53 <boily> `5 w
23:05:59 <HackEgo> 1/2:sweden//Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize. \ cooperate//"Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte". \ holy water//Holy water is water made by boiling the hell out of Spain. \ `help//`help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a
23:06:00 <boily> `n
23:06:01 <HackEgo> 2/2:specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom. \ of//Of this incident we shall never speak again.
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23:21:32 <zzo38> I have worked more writing ZPXDB today. I intend to use it as the format for two of the four files for Free Hero Mesh (the level file and the solution file; the other two files are the class definition file (which is a text file), and the class binary file (which is a Hamster archive)). (Unlike Hero Mesh, my plan is Free Hero Mesh splits the puzzle set into these four files instead of just one.)
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2018-02-03:

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01:11:54 <zzo38> You can tell me if you have other ideas about Free Hero Mesh, that I can then consider, when programming it. (I already have many ideas, including to add many new commands, as well as to remove some existing commands (they are converted into others when converting a .MB file); new commands may include: GetInventory, MaxInventory, PreCreate, PostCreate, Assassinate, InternalMove, etc)
01:14:31 <zzo38> (As well as a MoveSelf command, which exists only because of a bug in the original Hero Mesh, having to do with setting Inertia)
01:34:49 <oerjan> huh, i forgot to log out
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01:57:32 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
01:58:54 <oerjan> evenily.
02:04:20 <shachaf> mniip: Do you like _Topology via Logic_?
02:04:54 <mniip> ugh
02:05:00 <mniip> I already have too many things on my reading list
02:05:09 <oerjan> `1 ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
02:05:10 <HackEgo> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file
02:05:11 <shachaf> but this book is the best
02:05:16 <mniip> this will take years
02:05:20 <shachaf> "It is this, it is this that oppresses my soul, / When I think of my uncle’s last words: / And my heart is like nothing so much as a bowl / Brimming over with quivering curds!
02:05:33 <oerjan> hm something's wrong there.
02:05:42 <oerjan> `1 egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
02:05:42 <shachaf> "It is this, it is this—" "We have had that before!" The Bellman indignantly said. And the Baker replied "Let me say it once more. It is this, it is this that I dread!"
02:05:44 <HackEgo> 1/7:wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, villages in Norway, and inventors of all things. Taneb invented it. \ wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
02:05:46 <shachaf> int-e is the bellman?!
02:05:56 <oerjan> aha.
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02:06:46 <mniip> shachaf, it went like this so far
02:07:14 <mniip> wtf does delta-A mean in elementary energy and why isn't it dA?
02:07:21 <mniip> wtf is an exterior derivative?
02:07:28 <mniip> wtf is differential form calculus?
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02:07:33 <mniip> wtf is a manifold?
02:07:39 <shachaf> hi mniip
02:07:47 <mniip> wtf is a second countable set?
02:07:48 <shachaf> These are things we've talked about in this channel a lot for some reason?
02:07:49 <mniip> er
02:07:51 <mniip> wtf is a second countable space?
02:08:47 <mniip> ?
02:08:58 * oerjan has forgotten that.
02:09:31 <shachaf> What's this elementary energy thing?
02:10:32 <mniip> delta A = F delta r
02:10:42 <mniip> infinitesimal work is force times infinitesimal displacement
02:11:19 <mniip> (so far to me it only made sense as an integral of second kind over a curve)
02:11:35 <shachaf> mniip: _Topology via Logic_ is the book that made some of these topology things intuitive to my CS-twisted mind
02:12:18 <mniip> but then in say EM we have stuff like
02:12:29 <mniip> delta A = 1/8pi E dD
02:13:06 <mniip> is this an integral of second kind over a curve in a hilbert space? I have no idea
02:13:28 <shachaf> Do you have a link with more context? I don't know much physics.
02:13:59 <mniip> afraid not
02:14:45 <shachaf> Do you like Chu spaces?
02:14:58 <shachaf> Wait, maybe int-e is the Baker.
02:15:02 <shachaf> Because he dreads this.
02:17:01 <mniip> huh
02:17:11 <mniip> they don't call it elementary work/energy in english it seems
02:19:20 <mniip> just "small amount of work"
02:22:29 <shachaf> mniip: you should learn all about differential geometry and then teach me twh
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02:26:09 <mniip> shachaf, looks like the book is all about non-hausdorff spaces
02:26:14 <shachaf> Yep.
02:26:15 <mniip> while uh
02:26:29 <shachaf> hausdorff spaces are overrated imo
02:26:49 <mniip> manifolds are all hausdorff
02:27:19 <shachaf> It's not as if the book is about spaces that are specifically not Hausdorff. They just aren't the main examples.
02:27:39 <mniip> I'm intersted in the calculus side of topology right now
02:27:48 <mniip> not CS/AT/HoTT
02:27:51 <shachaf> OK.
02:28:04 <mniip> since I came there from, uhh, manifolds
02:28:08 <shachaf> Even so, maybe?
02:28:14 <shachaf> Or maybe not. Whatever.
02:32:47 <mniip> shachaf, http://tcpst.net/v1w2.png the book needs to be updated with a more modern schematic http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/329/056/e96.jpg
02:36:03 <shachaf> mniip: did you know differentiation is a functor hth
02:36:18 <mniip> you mean differentiation of functors?
02:36:42 <shachaf> No, the differentiation operation.
02:36:46 <shachaf> What is differentiation of functors?
02:39:10 <mniip> I totally don't know enough about it, but some functors allow taking a derivative
02:39:46 <mniip> that in CCC algebra corresponds to your average differentiation rules
02:40:31 <shachaf> Is this the Goodwillie thing?
02:41:15 <mniip> probably
02:48:50 <shachaf> mniip: do you like Stokes' theorem?
02:49:01 <mniip> which
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02:49:34 <mniip> the rotor one or the general on?
02:49:34 <shachaf> the good one hth
02:50:08 <oerjan> . o O ( e's all stoked about it )
02:50:09 <mniip> I like the rotor one because that I can at least understand and prove formally
02:50:34 <shachaf> Rotor?
02:50:43 <mniip> curl
02:50:50 <shachaf> Oh.
02:50:52 <shachaf> `5 w
02:50:58 <HackEgo> 1/1:nitia//nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. \ αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo! \ coppro//coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. \ itidus20//itidus20's entry has been censored. \ belgium//The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
02:51:53 <shachaf> `dowgw coppro
02:51:54 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dowgw: not found
02:51:57 <shachaf> `dowg coppro
02:52:05 <HackEgo> 1927:2013-01-31 <ellioẗt> mv wisdom/a.is523 wisdom/ais523; mv wisdom/c.oppro wisdom/coppro \ 1925:2013-01-31 <oerjän> mv wisdom/coppro wisdom/c.oppro \ 1924:2013-01-31 <oerjän> revert \ 1923:2013-01-31 <coppr̈o> rm wisdom/coppro \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
02:52:29 <shachaf> Should someone do something about that wisdom entry?
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02:54:12 <shachaf> `le//rn_append dowg//One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager.
02:54:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'dowg': A dowg is a wise dog. One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager.
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10:29:10 <esowiki> [[Tampio]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53947&oldid=53827 * Fergusq * (+281) added hello world example and links
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15:20:59 <int-e> `` find wisdom -type f | wc -l
15:21:00 <HackEgo> 1559
15:21:03 <int-e> . o O ( not so infinite )
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16:26:43 <boily> infinint-e.
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17:36:39 <shachaf> `? ngevd
17:36:40 <HackEgo> ​�蔢���Ļ�s��+�����X܊i�s%_h~�����s~���L=
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17:46:25 <int-e> oh it's not random
17:46:41 <int-e> `? atriq
17:46:42 <HackEgo> atriq or two
17:50:55 <shachaf> It seems pretty close to infinite.
17:51:36 <int-e> I see lots of question marks
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18:43:50 <zseri> hi boily
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18:45:44 <int-e> (What if you eat one of two chicken that are in an entangled quantum state?)
18:52:10 <zseri> the other one is eaten too.
18:56:44 <boily> zsellori!
18:56:52 <boily> int-ello!
18:57:01 <boily> I'm not sure you can eat a quantum chicken...
18:58:08 <zseri> give it a try!
19:03:15 <int-e> *clearly* we should ask ##physics.
19:03:44 <int-e> `grwp quantum
19:03:45 <HackEgo> mathematimu:A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change. \ quote:Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. \ shor's algorithm:Shor's algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it.
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19:28:28 * Taneb hello
19:32:40 <int-e> Taneбрый вечер
19:36:12 <boily> O Tanelle, bonum vesper!
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19:50:32 <wob_jonas> Does anyone by chance have a variant of the Porter2 snowball English stemming program http://snowballstem.org/algorithms/english/stemmer.html that rolls british vs american spellings of "-our" words to the same, eg. "color, colour, neighbor, neighbour, behavior, behaviour, flavor, flavour, honor, honour",
19:51:06 <wob_jonas> but also works correctly on derivatives of those words, so eg. "honorable" and "honourable" would get rolled to the same?
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20:20:50 <int-e> fungot: are you a duplicate block?
20:20:50 <fungot> int-e: monads come from category theory. even so, why's that needed? see fnord :) 3 3 3
20:21:04 <int-e> fungot: I resent that reference
20:21:05 <fungot> int-e: has a huge memory leak. what more could one want? :) i use the words function and expression interchangeably in the rules
20:21:21 <int-e> fungot: you're forgiven
20:21:21 <fungot> int-e: but there are technicalities." paul graham implements a bastardised form of call/ cc
20:21:26 <int-e> ^style
20:21:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:22:07 <int-e> I don't recall that corner of the irc style... is it new?
20:22:31 <wob_jonas> fungot: no, it's only haters that spread the info about the memory leak. there was one, but it's been fixed in the release like six years ago.
20:22:32 <fungot> wob_jonas: i don't see why anyone finds dead corpses interesting. i should probably also look at new elemnts of foo in order to evaluate the code read by breval.
20:23:19 <int-e> hmm, is there a link between "breval" and "brexit"
20:26:03 <int-e> maybe: "breval" and "brexit" are just two of the many great functions in the upcoming brC [bɹɪk] language.
20:26:53 <int-e> `? ipa
20:26:55 <HackEgo> The IPA (short for International Phonetic Abjad) is an international standard encoding all non-vowel sounds in all spoken languages, and is used to indicate the pronunciation of words. It is incredibly useful, unless you need to pronounce a word.
20:27:44 <int-e> `"
20:27:44 <HackEgo> 1319) <int-e> @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language \ 116) (in #irp) <Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteric?  <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P
20:29:47 <boily> `"
20:29:48 <HackEgo> 1109) zzo38 [~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: I need the stats for the small leech, not the big one. So, if you write it on here while I am gone then when I return I will check.] \ 1100) <shachaf> "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd
20:30:52 <zseri> `"
20:30:53 <HackEgo> 1158) <fungot> kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around \ 347) <Sgeo> I used to be more irritated by alcohol  <olsner> Sgeo: you're not supposed to put it in your eyes
20:31:04 <boily> `? zseri
20:31:06 <HackEgo> zseri? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:31:16 <zseri> `? boily
20:31:17 <HackEgo> ​“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
20:31:28 <int-e> `? metasepia
20:31:29 <HackEgo> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
20:31:52 * int-e whistles innocently
20:33:31 <int-e> boily: are you also boring the world, like that Elon guy?
20:34:02 <moony> helloily
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21:14:34 <boily> int-e: yup, but on a surgical scale. drills to poke hole in your teeth and jaw bone ^^
21:14:37 <boily> mhelloony!
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22:53:35 <zzo38> Hello
22:54:32 <zzo38> Today I played another session of GURPS game. (I managed to trick two out of three people into running away by aiming an unready attack at them. They probably did not know that the attack was not ready.)
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23:04:50 <Soni> what's the shortest running Hello World! program?
23:05:01 <Soni> mine takes 987 tab presses
23:05:16 <Soni> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2c60f02093287c593206f0fc616a9dd90f231706&dn=Screenshot%20from%202018-02-03%2018-14-43.png
23:05:56 <zzo38> Shortest running program in what programming language?
23:06:07 <Soni> oh sorry uh
23:06:17 <Soni> what's the shortest running brainfuck Hello World! program?
23:06:24 <Soni> .-.
23:06:31 <zzo38> O, OK.
23:09:44 <zzo38> (And what is that magnet: URI for? What is that file?)
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2018-02-04:

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01:27:45 * oerjan forgot to log out _again_
01:28:42 <oerjan> huh, so irssi _does_ have a limit to how far back it keeps a backscroll.
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01:48:22 <alercah> configurable, isn't it?
01:49:02 <oerjan> probably. i don't recall hitting it before.
01:49:57 <\oren\> Yeah I configured it to be much longer than normal
01:57:31 <oerjan> shachaf: today (4 Feb) is the birthday of the bellman hth
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03:12:32 <boily> @massages-loud
03:12:32 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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04:22:06 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53948&oldid=53927 * Noner Kao * (+389) /* Terms */ Add IP explanation
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07:18:47 <shachaf> contrapumpkin: hellontrapumpkin
07:18:58 <shachaf> Do you understand non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs?
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07:50:40 <Hooloovo0> I have used them in the past
07:50:59 <Hooloovo0> shachaf ^
07:51:30 <shachaf> When I read about them they always seem very complicated.
07:52:48 <shachaf> But can't any standard zero-knowledge proof -- the kind where the prover commits to something, then the other person asks for one of two things about it, then the prover reveals some more information about it -- be converted to non-interactive in a pretty straightforward way?
07:53:41 <shachaf> In particular, writing down n commitments, then using an n-bit hash to get n query bits, and then revealing the same information the same way?
07:55:12 <shachaf> Is that a standard approach, or what?
07:55:47 <Hooloovo0> yes
07:56:03 <Hooloovo0> that's how I did it
07:57:43 <Hooloovo0> http://soc1024.ece.illinois.edu/teaching/ece498am/fall2017/ is the class I took
08:04:14 <shachaf> So what are the more complicated approaches? Do they save on space, or allow you to prove more things, or not rely on hash functions, or what?
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08:09:00 <Hooloovo0> I'm not honestly sure
08:09:16 <quintopia> >_>
08:10:21 <quintopia> welp. been gone for a week. did my logs miss you?
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08:44:22 <esowiki> [[TOD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53949&oldid=53823 * Null * (-7) make the transition case more clear
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09:28:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Noner Kao *  uploaded "[[File:Steady.gif]]": A tile of a TaiDoKu program in steady state, which can be a valid solution of a classic 4*4 SuDoKu, a special Latin square with regional constraint.
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09:32:14 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53951&oldid=53948 * Noner Kao * (+59) /* Terms */ upload figure to show steady state
10:05:14 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53952&oldid=53951 * Noner Kao * (+693) /* Execution Cycle */ update op_lookup
10:26:18 <myname> could any american tell me how much you have to pay for mozzarella sticks vs balls?
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11:33:08 <int-e> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en <-- WTF do you mean by "less secure" and "more secure" and "our security standards"? Links please.
11:34:59 <int-e> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/66025/what-are-the-dangers-of-allowing-less-secure-apps-to-access-my-google-account maybe
11:35:14 <\oren\> oh shi--
11:35:15 <\oren\> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/929300535096636091/CBA178897FB241F57AB5058F681826F69695BEF4/
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13:55:32 <zseri> helloily
14:00:14 <boily> zsellori!
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20:13:32 <esowiki> [[Triangular]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53953&oldid=52170 * MD XF * (+196) 
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23:07:30 <quintopia> @tell boily ping me on discord if you come around
23:07:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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2018-02-05:

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00:12:10 <quintopia> progress?
00:12:17 <shachaf> `5 w
00:12:23 <HackEgo> 1/2:lens//A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra. \ categorical product//categorical product is like when you have two category elements A and B then their product is element C iff there are two morphisms p:C->A and q:C->B such that for every element X and morphisms u:X->A and v:X->B there is a unique morphism w:X->C such that u=wp and v=wq.
00:13:59 <shachaf> `n
00:14:00 <HackEgo> 2/2:\ pineapple//Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable. \ prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . \ sbeef//Sbeef is the culinary name for meat from scow.
00:14:15 <shachaf> `cwlprits pineapple
00:14:23 <HackEgo> shachäf shachäf boil̈y olsnër
00:15:11 <shachaf> `cwlprits categorical product
00:15:18 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän
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00:16:44 <shachaf> `cwlprits categorical
00:16:52 <HackEgo> oerjän b_jonäs
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00:19:53 * boily prays for the blackness in quintopia's screen to shoo away
00:20:00 <boily> @massages-louc
00:20:00 <lambdabot> quintopia said 1h 12m 30s ago: ping me on discord if you come around
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02:53:37 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53954 * MD XF * (+19056) Created page with "There's no reason to give a formal definition for the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus_definition lambda calculus] here, instead I will showcase some of the inte..."
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05:11:41 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53955&oldid=53952 * Noner Kao * (+609) /* Execution */ add decription
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06:57:23 <zzo38> There is, on All The Tropes wiki, "Faction Calculus". Now you have to do Faction Calculus with actual calculus!
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08:11:09 <\oren\> dimethylamine is a good amine
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11:42:51 <boily> fungot: nostril.
11:42:51 <fungot> boily: use the binary force luke gorrie implemented it. he tells you what language it is implemented." fnord fnord
11:43:25 <boily> . o O ( the fungot lightsaber goes “fnooooord fnooooord” )
11:43:26 <fungot> boily: quote and such). oh i see. the most common first and last element of a, i don't boot this computer very often.
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15:27:32 <zseri> hi
15:50:30 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * BMO *  New user account
15:59:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53956&oldid=53945 * BMO * (+282) /* Introductions */
16:10:40 <esowiki> [[Functoid]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53957&oldid=53954 * BMO * (+125) /* Commands */
16:11:06 <esowiki> [[Functoid]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53958&oldid=53957 * BMO * (-1) /* Commands */
16:14:10 <esowiki> [[Functoid]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53959&oldid=53958 * BMO * (+93) 
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16:27:53 <esowiki> [[Functoid]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53960&oldid=53959 * BMO * (+534) 
16:34:30 <esowiki> [[User:BMO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53961 * BMO * (+163) Created page with "Hello, World!  BMO here, I like functional programming and [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/48198/bmo code golf], I also created the esolang [[Functoid]]."
16:58:14 <esowiki> [[Functoid]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53962&oldid=53960 * BMO * (+221) 
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18:36:05 <wob_jonas> `? categorical
18:36:08 <HackEgo> categorical? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:36:11 <wob_jonas> `dowg categorical
18:36:19 <wob_jonas> um
18:36:20 <HackEgo> 5039:2014-10-10 <oerjän> mv wisdom/categorical{," product"} \ 5038:2014-10-10 <b_jonäs> learn categorical product is like when you have two category elements A and B then their product is element C iff there are two morphisms p:C->A and q:C->B such that for every element X and morphisms u:X->A and v:X->B there is a morphism w:X->C such that u=w
18:36:30 <wob_jonas> ah!
18:36:36 <wob_jonas> I made it, and oerjan moved it
18:36:37 <wob_jonas> I see
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19:10:15 <int-e> it's perfect abstract nonsense.
19:10:55 <wob_jonas> `? categorical product
19:10:57 <HackEgo> categorical product is like when you have two category elements A and B then their product is element C iff there are two morphisms p:C->A and q:C->B such that for every element X and morphisms u:X->A and v:X->B there is a unique morphism w:X->C such that u=wp and v=wq.
19:11:01 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, but the easier part of it
19:15:23 <wob_jonas> `? abstract
19:15:24 <HackEgo> abstract? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:15:26 <wob_jonas> `? abstract nonsense
19:15:27 <HackEgo> We would have an explanation of abstract nonsense here, but it fled into a diagram and we haven't been able to chase it. We will try again once we find an abstract machete.
19:15:52 <wob_jonas> `? international millennium
19:15:54 <HackEgo> international millennium? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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20:56:19 <zseri> hi
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22:57:31 <boily> @metar CYUL
22:57:31 <lambdabot> CYUL 052200Z 24013KT 30SM DRSN FEW040 FEW240 M11/M17 A3012 RMK SC1CI1 CI TR SLP203
22:59:06 <\oren\> Dow Jones crash?
22:59:55 <moony> I wonder if Befunge Joust would be a sane possibility
23:01:09 <boily> \oren\: eh?
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23:03:37 <\oren\> boily: dow jones is down more than 1000 points today
23:03:55 <shachaf> more like scow jones hth
23:05:57 <\oren\> shachaf: how much is a "point" in us dollars?
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23:07:57 <shachaf> Who cares about points?
23:08:30 <shachaf> It's down about 4-5%
23:09:00 <\oren\> shachaf: but how much was it worth in total?
23:09:29 <shachaf> Who cares about a price-weighted index of 30 US stocks?
23:09:49 <\oren\> shachaf: only 30?
23:09:54 <\oren\> huh
23:10:24 <shachaf> That's what the DJIA is
23:10:43 <shachaf> And it's price-weighted, which should irritate you even more
23:11:22 <\oren\> ok so which ones went down?
23:12:04 <\oren\> let's see. walmart went down
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23:14:38 <\oren\> huh, that's bizarre, why does the graph for most of these look the same? do they hold each-other's stocks a lot or something
23:15:01 <\oren\> some went down more than others
23:15:57 <shachaf> There are many things that affect all companies.
23:17:32 <\oren\> McDonalds' didn't go down as much as most of them
23:20:14 <\oren\> while exxon mobil went down more, but wasn't as affected by this weird sell-off at 3 PM
23:21:49 <\oren\> Apple only wont down 2.5%?
23:22:48 <shachaf> Do these differences seem particularly significant to you?
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23:23:42 <\oren\> shachaf: well no, because I don't see what information these buying and selling decisions are based on
23:24:45 <shachaf> Do you have any exposure to these companies yourself?
23:25:02 <\oren\> shachaf: no, I don't own any stocks
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23:25:20 <shachaf> Maybe you should!
23:25:29 <shachaf> Think of all the money you could lose.
23:25:50 <\oren\> have they considered using random numbers?
23:26:45 <shachaf> You don't believe in markets, huh
23:27:34 <\oren\> shachaf: I mean buy and sell stocks mostly at random
23:28:26 <\oren\> rather than an arbitrary set of 30
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23:33:01 <shachaf> Who cares about these 30?
23:33:33 <\oren\> shachaf: a lot of people apparently, but I don't understand why
23:34:19 <shachaf> no one who matters hth
23:34:23 <\oren\> and a lot of the companies in this "industrial average" are retail companies, not industry?
23:34:57 <shachaf> The main reason people like to talk about DJIA is that it's old, I think. Been around for a long time, very traditional. But it's silly.
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23:35:43 <shachaf> You should at least look at S&P 500, which is 500 companies and cap-weighted.
23:36:07 <moony> There was an old abandon esolang on bay12. Poslin. It's really neat, actually. Language is a meta language, and i believe it is capable of redeclaring itself (metacircular). https://bitbucket.org/thomas_bartscher/poslin-specification/overview
23:37:56 <moony> The actual core of the language is under prims.txt in spec
23:39:31 <\oren\> hmmm
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23:40:42 <moony> Or
23:40:48 <moony> It's kinda all over the place :p
23:41:04 <moony> Someone who's good at lisp might be able to decode it a little better (Interpreter is written in Common Lisp)
23:44:28 <shachaf> ski: whoa, are y'all talking about leibniz notation?
23:44:34 <shachaf> Do you understand how it works?
23:44:52 <shachaf> I remember that you wrote about the meaning of partial vs. total derivatives once.
23:54:49 <ski> Leibniz notation can be seen as a macro for Langrange notation over a lambda expression
23:55:16 <ski>   d f(x) / d x  =  (\x. f(x))'(x)
23:55:24 <shachaf> That's what I said.
23:55:33 <shachaf> That it operates on expressions with free variables.
23:55:42 <ski> then, throw in some dependent variables, to confuse the matter
23:55:53 <ski>   d y / d x  =  (\x. y)'(x)
23:55:59 <shachaf> A physicist person disagreed with me but I don't think the disagreement is usually that important.
23:56:13 <ski> `y' here being a dependent variable (think dynamic scoping), depending on the (independent) `x'
23:56:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: y': not found
23:56:16 <shachaf> But what's the meaning of "d x" on its own, not in the expression "d y / d x"?
23:56:49 <ski> for the matter of the above, you don't have to assign a meaning to `d x' on its own
23:56:53 <shachaf> I agree.
23:57:07 <shachaf> But people do assign meanings to "d x" on its own, and things work out.
23:57:15 <ski> (and when you have dependent variables, then the matter of total vs. partial variable appears)
23:57:34 <moony> Question: Is a truely meta language (A meta language in which all possible meta languages can be implemented in and can describe any machine) even possible on a mathematical perspective?
23:57:36 <shachaf> for example "x^2 + y^2 = 0" -> "2 d x + 2 d y = 0" -> "dy/dx = -x/y"
23:57:41 <moony> I can't wrap my head around it :p
23:57:46 <shachaf> Neither x nor y is really dependent on the other here.
23:58:05 <shachaf> I'm sorry, "2 x dx + 2 y dy = 0"
23:59:52 <ski> instead of having a functional dependency from `x' to `y' in `d y / d x', i think one can allow more general relations. but then it may not be enough to know that relatioship, and the particular value of `x', in order to determine `d y / d x'. in particular, one may also have to know `y' (such that the relationship obtains between that `y' and the selected `x', of course). see "implicit function theorem"

2018-02-06:

00:00:26 <shachaf> Right.
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00:01:16 <ski> perhaps another way that could be used (sometimes ?) is to imagine a common parameterization (of both `x' and `y'), say `t'. then you're just surpressing a `/ d t' in the middle formula there
00:01:43 <ski> i haven't thought these ideas out that far
00:01:51 <shachaf> Yes, that's the best way I know to make sense of these things.
00:02:13 <shachaf> But given that the choice of parameterization doesn't really matter, I feel like there ought to be a direct way to think about it.
00:02:35 <ski> (line and surface integrals is still something i'm pondering how to make sense of (perhaps adapting/repairing it somewhat) the notation for)
00:02:42 <shachaf> One thing you can do is look at the zero set of f(x,y) = x^2 + y^2 - 1
00:03:02 <ski> i'd be nice to have a way to connect this with SDG
00:03:17 <shachaf> And then look at the zero set of its derivative, say f(x,y)(dx,dy) = 2 x dx + 2 y dy, at some point f(x,y)
00:03:29 * ski is also reminded of some papers that computed derivatives of programs (operating on bags, in many of the examples)
00:03:54 <ski> yea, linearity
00:04:16 <ski>   f : |R^2 -> |R
00:04:29 <ski>   f' : |R^2 -> (|R^2 -o |R)
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00:04:38 <shachaf> Yes, exactly.
00:05:08 <shachaf> Anyway people do many strange tricks. Like dy/dx = ky -> dy = dy/y = k dx -> \int{dy/y} = \int{k dx} . I don't really know how to make sense of dy and dx in that sort of context.
00:05:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:05:58 <ski> (in SDG, `|R^D' is iso to `|R^2', where `D = {d : |R | d^2 = 0}'. from `f' where `f(d) = a + b*d' for every `d' in `D', we get `(a,b)', intercept and slope)
00:07:13 <shachaf> A connection to regular DG would be good too. :-) I don't think this is the same kind of "d".
00:27:17 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53963&oldid=53955 * Noner Kao * (+0) Fix the capital in the info box
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01:40:03 * ski sighs
01:41:03 <oerjan> sii(sii)
01:41:29 <shachaf> try that one on for sighs
01:45:21 <ski> btdt
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02:03:20 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53964&oldid=53963 * Noner Kao * (+2650) /* Refinement */ finish the description
02:05:23 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53965&oldid=53964 * Noner Kao * (-2) /* Refinement */ fix the link
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02:12:11 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53966&oldid=53962 * Oerjan * (+17) /* Commands */ Use wikitable
02:12:51 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:15:06 * moony combines oerjan's flyswatter with an anti-flyswatter. ###-----
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02:28:05 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53967&oldid=53965 * Noner Kao * (+669) /* Terms */ add explanation of new terms and some fixes
02:30:35 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53968&oldid=53967 * Noner Kao * (-3) /* Refinement */ minor fixes
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03:04:47 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53969&oldid=53968 * Noner Kao * (+422) /* Execution */ more explanation
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04:25:41 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53970&oldid=53969 * Noner Kao * (+416) more specific description about the refinement
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05:07:31 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53971&oldid=53970 * Noner Kao * (+1953) /* Meta Operations */ define meta operations
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05:17:08 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53972&oldid=53971 * Noner Kao * (+411) Dialects and some fix
05:17:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Noner Kao *  moved [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] to [[TaiDoKu]]: The basic specification is done
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06:41:51 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53975&oldid=53973 * Noner Kao * (+92) /* Meta Operations */ add meta.sync
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07:00:00 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53976&oldid=53864 * Noner Kao * (+14) /* T */ add TaiDoKu
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07:05:35 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53977&oldid=53925 * Noner Kao * (+137) /* Projects */ update the status
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08:21:46 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53978&oldid=53975 * Noner Kao * (+895) Add program format spec
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11:36:32 <boily> `5 w
11:36:39 <HackEgo> 1/3:tas//TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running. \ ehlist//ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/ \ arothmorphise//arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant...
11:36:39 <boily> `n
11:36:40 <HackEgo> 2/3: oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. \ welcome.es//¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolang
11:36:41 <boily> `n
11:36:42 <HackEgo> 3/3:s.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.) \ cat introduction//cat introduction is the process of piping one or more extra `cat` commands into your pipeline; occasionally this is even actually useful.
11:38:10 <shachaf> cats require no introduction
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12:37:41 <mroman> 'elloh
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17:47:27 <zseri> https://github.com/blizzard4591/cmake-portable-endian/pull/2
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17:52:09 <int-e> yay. 64 bytes from ...: icmp_seq=8230 ttl=54 time=37742 ms
17:54:25 <zseri> wow
17:55:21 * int-e is on a crappy mobile plan
17:55:39 <int-e> but it's kind of amazing just how crappy it is sometimes :)
17:56:16 <zseri> 64 bytes from ...: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=67.1 ms; through Cisco VPN and ZPRD
18:01:00 <int-e> basically it gewts slow when I'm downloading something (you know, like a 100kb picture for a website)... it starets queuing packets like crazy. But it's doing that to a ridiculous degree. (let's see how many typos I have in this...)
18:07:41 <int-e> oh and it's not always this bad. depends on the time of day, so I guess the neighbourhood is just crowded in terms of mobile contracts.
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18:19:42 <int-e> and sometimes resetting the usb modem helps
18:20:29 <int-e> But heh, I'm getting some amusement out of this, so why switch to something else...
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20:39:06 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53979 * DMC * (+3616) Created page with "'''Grawlix'''  This is the horrible Grawlix Programming Language - [[Brainfuck]] with some enhancements.  ==Description== *8 bit memory cells (or other bit amounts) *Everythin..."
20:39:27 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53980&oldid=53979 * DMC * (-14) 
20:40:49 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53981&oldid=53976 * DMC * (+14) 
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20:42:17 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53982&oldid=53980 * DMC * (-9) /* Some code constructs that are possible */
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20:49:12 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53983&oldid=53933 * DMC * (+4) 
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22:29:25 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53984&oldid=53981 * HactarCE * (+15) Added [[Metatape]]
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22:51:15 <fizzie> int-e: Heh, and I complained (well, mentioned as an aside in an unrelated complaint) to my ISP because the native IPv6 to my VPS got a round-trip of 21 ms, compared to 8 ms for IPv4.
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23:04:12 <boily> `5 w
23:04:17 <HackEgo> 1/2:if//If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss: \ pspace//PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction. \ mdude//MDude is just a dude, with an M's courag
23:04:18 <boily> `n
23:04:19 <HackEgo> 2/2:e. \ manager//Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html \ hacker//Jim Hacker is a former British prime minister.
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23:29:34 <wob_jonas> yeah, two of those wisdoms are mine
23:29:47 <wob_jonas> `dowg pspace
23:29:55 <HackEgo> 9284:2016-10-14 <alercäh> learn PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
23:29:56 <wob_jonas> `? peace
23:29:57 <HackEgo> peace? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:29:59 <wob_jonas> `? peace moon
23:30:00 <HackEgo> peace moon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:30:01 <wob_jonas> `? peace witch
23:30:03 <HackEgo> peace witch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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23:39:08 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn peace witch//Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They're in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom to building material.
23:39:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'peace witch': Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They're in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom to building material.
23:43:06 <boily> I can't seem to find if there's h-dropping in Canadian English. Is it “an herbal“ or “a herbal”?
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23:44:10 <wob_jonas> boily: aren't there words where the "h" is silent in pretty much every dialect of English?
23:44:20 <wob_jonas> like "hour"
23:44:26 <wob_jonas> I don't know how this works
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23:49:35 <boily> Wikipédia says: “The word "herb" is pronounced /hɜːrb/ in the Commonwealth,[1] but /ɜːrb/ is common among North American speakers and those from other regions where h-dropping occurs.”
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23:51:21 <wob_jonas> how about hour, honest, honor, heritage?
23:51:32 <moony> I was going to write my second submission to https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/155018/the-programming-language-quiz-mark-ii-cops in Assembly for the Apollo Guidance Computer. But the emulator says otherwise. That sucks.
23:51:49 <boily> wob_jonas: h, h, h, h? at least in my mangled English pronounciation.
23:51:59 <boily> mhelloony.
23:52:03 <moony> helloily
23:53:07 <wob_jonas> boily: I always pronounce "hour" without an h, and I thought most people did, but apparently no. I think "honest" and "honor" vary by accent, and I usually drop the "h" in them, and I'm totally unsure about "heritage"
23:53:49 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53985&oldid=53978 * Noner Kao * (+55) Add reference implementation
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23:59:46 <wob_jonas> "heir" and "homage" are the next ones suspicious for me, but of course I'm really bad at English pronunciation so I've no idea which words are actually supposed to have the "h" dropped. I think there are accents that drop "h" much more often.

2018-02-07:

00:00:10 <wob_jonas> I don't even know which words have the "h" drop in their base form in Hungarian, although supposedly some do
00:00:21 <wob_jonas> there must be a list of that somewhere
00:01:14 <wob_jonas> http://www.e-nyelv.hu/2009-01-12/vaskoh-nema-h-ra-vegzodo-szavak/ has the list
00:01:51 <wob_jonas> or at least the list according to some authority
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01:38:35 <int-e> oerjan: I wonder how hard it is to understand http://lpaste.net/362248#a362252 :-P
01:47:29 <oerjan> int-e: no clue what you're trying to calculate
01:53:51 <boily> alercah: hellorcah! do you rochester?
01:56:13 <alercah> negatory, I do not USA these days
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01:57:39 <boily> alercah: sad. but will you be montréaling?
01:59:18 <alercah> boily: when is?
01:59:36 <oerjan> . o O ( moony is on PPCG? )
01:59:45 <moony> . o O ( Definitely )
02:00:16 <moony> I mean, i do own the nick moonheart08 on IRC, even if i don't use it :P
02:01:18 <boily> alercah: unknown, but this autumn (95% sure, p < 0.05).
02:02:07 <oerjan> boily: if i understand your h placements in the logs, they're exactly the opposite of what i would have used.
02:02:08 <esowiki> [[BrainCurses/implementation.js]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53986&oldid=49026 * Conor O'Brien * (-24) 
02:02:21 * oerjan goes to wiktionary
02:04:28 <boily> oerjan: h is a confusing letter...
02:04:30 <oerjan> hm apparently hour is actually both, the rest are as i thought.
02:04:54 <oerjan> of course wiktionary could be missing options.
02:07:06 <boily> I think “our” and “hour” ought to be said differently.
02:10:03 <moony> I wonder if my solution for The Programming Language Quiz II was a little TOO difficult
02:10:13 <moony> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
02:10:44 <alercah> boily: then I will try hard!
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02:20:23 <fizzie> itym 'ard hth
02:20:39 <fizzie> s/hth/ote/
02:20:45 <moony> fhizze
02:21:07 <fizzie> Hey-o.
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02:30:40 <boily> alercah: hype! :D
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03:25:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ivan *  New user account
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03:30:14 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53987&oldid=53956 * Ivan * (+258) 
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04:29:42 <esowiki> [[User:Wheatwizard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53988&oldid=53627 * Wheatwizard * (+78) 
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04:45:15 <esowiki> [[L]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53989&oldid=45600 * Wheatwizard * (-1) Fixed an error in the description
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05:15:10 <oerjan> good epiphany, whooster
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05:42:10 <moony> doesthiswork, it works
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06:58:21 <doesthiswork> yay moony
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10:07:08 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53990&oldid=53985 * Noner Kao * (+494) /* Format Specification */ refine the programming spec
10:07:17 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53991&oldid=53990 * Noner Kao * (+0) /* Format Specification */
10:07:46 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53992&oldid=53991 * Noner Kao * (+1) /* Format Specification */
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11:49:59 <boily> `5 w
11:50:04 <HackEgo> 1/2:sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings. \ hice//Hice is the plural form of house. \ friend//friend is a portmanteau of fritter and rend \ `?//​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ welcome.is//Halló og verið velkomin á hinn alþjóðlegann miðpunkt
11:50:05 <boily> `n
11:50:06 <HackEgo> 2/2:fyrir esoteríska forritunarmálshönnun og dreifingu. Meiri upplýsingar er hægt að nálgast á wikinu <http://esolangs.org/>. (Fyrir annarskonar esoterík prufið #esoteric á EFnet eða DALnet.)
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14:57:42 <zseri> hi
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20:46:09 <zseri_> currently I think about making a programming language similar to XTW, but instead of internal constant symbol contents I want to use a COW-alike mechanism that copies the data on write only if there is more than one reference to (!shared_ptr.unique()).
20:47:36 <zseri_> On the other hand I think about potential usages of constant symbol contents, as constant contents don't allow data races in parallel code. Maybe I should extent XTW to support parallel threads.
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21:29:54 <zseri_> bye
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22:08:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Soaku *  New user account
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23:40:08 <wob_jonas> `8-ball Where the heck is my other Auriok Steelshaper? I can't find it anywhere in the box of whites
23:40:09 <HackEgo> Signs point to yes.
23:40:51 <wob_jonas> fungot, same question
23:40:51 <fungot> wob_jonas: by the way, fnord takes a thunk, but doesn't require abandoning hygiene. if you want...
23:53:20 <boily> wellob_jonas. monowhite artifact?
23:53:50 <wob_jonas> boily: no, I'm experimenting with splashing significant amount of blue in it
23:54:18 <wob_jonas> the only good part of the deck is the 4 Kor Duelist + 4 Bonesplitter combo. the rest is junk, but I keep switching up what junk it is
23:56:24 <wob_jonas> the annoying part is that whenever I try to optimize the deck, it always seems like if I keep doing local improvements, I'll eventually just remove the whole equipment and artifact theme from it, and just get some decent white deck, possibly a white soldier deck
23:57:10 <wob_jonas> I should buy more cards to be able to build better decks, although this equipment deck might not be among the ones I want to bulid

2018-02-08:

00:03:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
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00:15:19 <esowiki> [[Featured languages/Candidates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53993&oldid=44816 * Camto * (+14) 
00:15:37 <esowiki> [[Featured languages/Candidates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53994&oldid=53993 * Camto * (+77) 
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01:04:10 <oerjan> *wooster
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01:40:08 <esowiki> [[Featured languages/Candidates]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53995&oldid=53994 * Oerjan * (-173) This page was created in error, turning into redirect
01:48:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53996&oldid=41159 * Oerjan * (+111) /* List of candidates */ I'm totally faking this formatting, but it was actually put on the wrong page [[Featured languages/Candidates]].
01:49:24 <oerjan> we do anything to serve. except for actually changing the featured language, that is.
01:51:15 <boily> bonsϿirjan. when will it be feather?
01:52:28 <shachaf> oerjan: how about i do y'all a favor and suggest brainfuck as a featured language candidate hth
01:53:47 <oerjan> shachaf: excellent idea, will save us work
01:53:52 <shachaf> "Languages that have not already been featured are strongly preferred, unless it has been a long time since it was previously featured, or significant new developments have occurred that warrant a second featuring."
01:59:09 <oerjan> well it _has_ been a long time.
01:59:28 <shachaf> it was previously featured very recently hth
01:59:42 <shachaf> Is featuring level-triggered or edge-triggered?
01:59:57 <oerjan> er i don't understand those terms.
02:00:19 <oerjan> well i guess i can guess
02:01:07 <oerjan> (perfective vs. imperfective aspect, anyone?)
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02:32:35 <LKoen> hello
02:32:44 <LKoen> can you see the characters at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%92%86%8D%F0%92%80%AD%F0%92%8A%8F%F0%92%86%A0#Akkadian ?
02:52:39 <oerjan> LKoen: yes
02:52:47 <LKoen> I can't
02:54:41 <oerjan> font problem, presumably
02:56:24 <LKoen> I suppose so
02:56:35 <LKoen> I wanted to write Babylone in Babylonian
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05:01:06 <\oren\> "How do I catch excetion polymophicly"
05:01:17 <\oren\> real literate there, me
05:03:27 <\oren\> `? polymorphism
05:03:28 <HackEgo> polymorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:03:34 <\oren\> `? morphism
05:03:35 <HackEgo> A morphism is just a natural transformation between two diagrams of shape 1.
05:04:03 <\oren\> `? polymorphic
05:04:04 <HackEgo> polymorphic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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05:15:49 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ts *  New user account
05:36:30 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53997&oldid=53987 * Ts * (+326) 
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05:56:36 <esowiki> [[Talk:BestFriends.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53998 * MD XF * (+148) Created page with "I read "You CANNOT use nested loops in BestFriends.". Is this simply because the language creator was too lazy to implement them in the interpreter?"
05:56:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:BestFriends.js]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53999&oldid=53998 * MD XF * (+18) 
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06:00:24 <esowiki> [[Talk:Text]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54000&oldid=51321 * Ts * (+426) /* txeT */ new section
06:32:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Image]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54001 * Ts * (+96) /* Image is TC */ new section
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06:54:33 <esowiki> [[Talk:Text]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54002&oldid=54000 * Ts * (+71) 
06:55:03 <esowiki> [[Talk:Image]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54003&oldid=54001 * Ts * (+71) 
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11:06:26 <Asus> can someone help me find truther community? what would i search for online for people into conspiracies christianity and the occult?A
11:12:52 <Taneb> `welcom Asus
11:12:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcom: not found
11:12:55 <Taneb> `welcome Asus
11:12:56 <HackEgo> Asus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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11:21:33 <shachaf> hi Taneb
11:21:50 <shachaf> Do you think Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download should be featured?
11:21:59 <Taneb> I have no objection
11:22:29 <Taneb> It certainly meets the requirements to my knowlege
11:43:28 <esowiki> [[Object oriented thue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54004&oldid=44561 * Fergusq * (+14) 
12:27:34 <Soni> I want a language with concurrent, compare-and-swap-able reference counting
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14:13:14 <zseri> hi
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15:00:29 <esowiki> [[Triangularity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54005 * Mr. Xcoder * (+4471) Created page with "'''Triangularity''' is a stack-based esoteric programming language created in early 2018 by PPCG user [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/59487/mr-xcoder?tab=profile Mr...."
15:01:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54006&oldid=53984 * Mr. Xcoder * (+20) /* T */
15:04:28 <esowiki> [[Triangularity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54007&oldid=54005 * Mr. Xcoder * (-1) 
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16:57:21 <wob_jonas> Just feature Underload. The only reason it hasn't been featured yet is because ais didn't want to feature his own language.
16:59:02 <wob_jonas> Or feature Chef.
16:59:26 <wob_jonas> Or Intercal.
17:00:34 <Taneb> wob_jonas: the state of the Chef article is not suited to being featured
17:03:18 <wob_jonas> Hmm. :(
17:06:05 <wob_jonas> I should improve [[Combinatory logic]]. Currently it doesn't even link to the Smullyan bird book, Underload, or Unlambda.
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19:48:04 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54008&oldid=53982 * DMC * (+0) /* External resources */
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19:55:53 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54009&oldid=54008 * DMC * (+82) 
19:57:41 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54010&oldid=54009 * DMC * (-6) /* External resources */
20:03:50 <int-e> fungot: !
20:03:50 <fungot> int-e: ow! rexx has 3 votes and ork has 4 votes, both at conlang and at esolangs i've met people from my company made against the training sergeants
20:04:14 <int-e> `"
20:04:15 <HackEgo> 190) <asiekierka> GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment \ 1000) <olsner> I've seen horses jump on tv, they can probably jump in scotland too
20:04:42 <olsner> heh, clever alias for `quote
20:04:53 <int-e> `'
20:04:54 <HackEgo> 547) <fizzie> I prefer the N64 controller, it's the only one that has place for my third hand.
20:04:54 <shachaf> That's a double quote, it gives two quotes.
20:04:59 <olsner> and I have yet to ask someone from scotland if horses can jump there
20:05:51 <int-e> . o O ( It depends, where are they jumping from? )
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20:21:09 <mroman> evening.
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20:35:37 <mroman> Taneb: Did you look at the new esosc draft?
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21:10:58 <zseri> bye
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21:16:03 * boily shakes a penguin
21:16:21 <int-e> FROZEN CHICKEN?
21:16:34 <boily> int-ello! I'm having weird issues with my desktop.
21:16:54 <int-e> Ah. Have you tried putting it on the ground?
21:17:05 <boily> it's already there.
21:17:22 <int-e> That's some confusing terminology then.
21:17:46 <boily> only slightly misoriented.
21:18:16 <boily> booting hangs. I can get to X if I Alt-F2, login then `startx`.
21:18:45 <APic> =]
21:18:48 <boily> gnome3 starts with all the fixins, but I can't move the mouse.
21:19:00 <boily> mouse works if I unplug it then plug it again.
21:19:17 <boily> no dns unless I manually edit resolv.conf to point to 8.8.4.4.
21:21:02 <boily> APHic! anything similar happening on your end?
21:21:33 * boily dropkicks a penguin from the third cable, then spins it into a chokehold
21:21:38 <int-e> sounds like fun
21:23:56 <int-e> Broken hotplug, hmm. (What's responsible, systemd? I bet it's systemd. Systemd can be blamed for everything that goes wrong on a Linux PC)
21:24:18 <int-e> (The broken part would be registering all the devices that were already available at boot time.)
21:25:09 <boily> most probably systemd, but then how do I intimidate it so it works again?
21:25:20 <int-e> And this is pure speculation. It's stuff I only look at when *my* system breaks... and I promptly forget it afterwards. It'll be different the next time around anyway.
21:25:32 <APic> Evil new systemd…
21:25:47 <boily> I mean, I can live with that workaround until the next update...
21:25:54 <APic> Sometimes i wait almost a Minute until the next getty starts when i switch to VT 3…  ☹
21:26:02 <boily> I like systemd. mostly.
21:26:12 <boily> I can try waiting!
21:26:48 <APic> And needed to take „auto enp0s2“ out of my /etc/network/interfaces
21:27:07 <APic> Because it then always waited several Minutes for a Network-Connection
21:28:25 <int-e> systemd... stole my system logs, and took away my core dumps, "broke" 'halt', and I no longer understand how the system boots...
21:28:57 <int-e> (I know that I can configure the first two... but the second, in particular, was quite a puzzler for a while.)
21:31:45 <int-e> I still haven't trained my fingers to use 'poweroff'. Fortunately, I 'reboot' most of the time anyway.
21:34:18 <boily> hey... if I hibernate, maybe I won't have to dance around all these issues?
21:36:21 <int-e> perhaps
21:37:05 <boily> the Mysteries of Systemd. mystemdies.
21:37:33 <int-e> dies, eh
21:37:35 <int-e> morbid.
21:38:24 <shachaf> Die GNU Autotools
21:39:08 <int-e> german book title?
21:39:55 <boily> helloochaf. that I can wholeheartedly get behind with.
21:41:58 <int-e> APic: oh I miss eth0 :)
21:42:43 <APic> int-e: Me too
21:42:54 <int-e> (though I can get behind the technical reason why we no longer have it)
21:52:18 <boily> there are reasons it's not eth0 anymore?
22:06:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54011&oldid=53263 * DMC * (-199) Blanked the page
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22:21:54 <boily> `5 w
22:21:59 <HackEgo> 1/3:dereduntantation//Dereduntantation is the process of making things less redundant. It is typically done with either regexes or regular expressions. \ haiku//🀨や⛄ \ coptology//Coptology is comprised of coptanalysis and coptography. Coptanalysis is concerned with the disassembly and reverse engineering of copters, whereas coptography
22:22:00 <boily> `n
22:22:01 <HackEgo> 2/3:is the art of designing and engineering copters that are robust against coptanalysis. \ www//WWW is an abbreviation that takes longer to pronounce properly than what it expands to. \ canary//A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up, unless they're pining for the fjo
22:22:02 <boily> `n
22:22:04 <HackEgo> 3/3:rds.
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2018-02-09:

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01:28:47 <wob_jonas> "<boily> mouse works if I unplug it then plug it again." => I've had such a problem with an old keyboard and a new motherboard of whose keyboard controller was apparently not properly tested for AT plug keyboards with the AT to PS/2 passive converter. Every time the motherboard lost power (but not when it was just turned off and on properly), I had
01:28:47 <wob_jonas>  to unplug and replug the keyboard.
01:30:12 <wob_jonas> It also had a problem with the parallel port printer, but a different one: if I booted straight to linux, the printer wouldn't work. I had to boot to DOS, which somehow magically initialized the printer controller or something, which you noticed from the printer beeping and its online led turning on, then boot to linux from that (with loadlin or gr
01:30:12 <wob_jonas> ub2 for dos).
01:30:41 <wob_jonas> That was a long ago, at that time I considered booting linux with loadlin normal, so this wasn't a big problem.
01:31:10 <wob_jonas> I just had a linux entry at the dos startup menu, and also a command to boot linux later.
01:36:26 <boily> wellob_jonas. I'm running on not-exactly-new hardware, but I don't believe that'd be the cause?
01:37:20 <boily> I wouldn't be surprised at all that it's some kind of dubious upgrade that broke everything. I'm running on Ubuntu 18.04 on ~twelve year old stuff...
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01:46:28 <boily> bonsϿϿirjan.
01:47:46 <wob_jonas> boily: sure, it's probably not related
01:49:19 * boily glares at his machine
01:49:37 <ski> hm, my brother had a computer where one had to unplug and replug the (PS/2) keyboard during start-up, to be able to use it during GRUB
01:50:16 <ski> (the USB keyboard wouldn't work at all, there, while it worked fine after the OS had booted)
01:50:42 <wob_jonas> "<int-e> I still haven't trained my fingers to use 'poweroff'." Oh, so that's how it works? I was wondering why "halt" wasn't working, because it only halted the OS, but didn't turn off the motherboard, since the upgrade. Which was strange because it used to work.
01:50:47 <wob_jonas> I blamed drivers.
01:51:43 <ski> (otoh, if one booted windows, the PS/2 keyboard would cause the system to hog, if one used modifier keys (on either keyboard). so one'd unplug the PS/2 one after boot there)
01:58:27 <fizzie> I have an external USB hard disk enclosure, and one of the computers here will get stuck forever in boot if it's plugged in. Have to remember to unplug it to reboot. Works fine otherwise. Computers.
01:59:19 <wob_jonas> fizzie: the endless loop isn't just because it's trying to boot from the potential hard disk in the enclosure and failing, right?
02:00:27 <fizzie> Right. It won't go to the BIOS menu either.
02:00:47 <fizzie> I presume it's trying to figure out what it is, as part of some sort of hardware enumeration step.
02:07:42 <esowiki> [[User:Conor O'Brien]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54012&oldid=53454 * Conor O'Brien * (+60) /* Languages I have implemented */
02:09:00 <wob_jonas> fizzie: is it possible that it's a hardware fault in the enclosure, such as caused by some damage to the electronics, like two wires are shorted by something that got into it by accident?
02:09:33 <esowiki> [[Alarm Clock Radio/implementation.rb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54013 * Conor O'Brien * (+4064) Created page with "This is an implementation of [[Alarm Clock Radio]] in Ruby by [[User:Conor O'Brien]].  == Implementation ==  #!/usr/bin/ruby  require 'optparse'  # alarm clock radio    # beca..."
02:10:27 <wob_jonas> I had a case when a serial port male socket with a metal frame wasn't attached to the back of the chasis properly, it was just loose on a cable from the motherboard, and the metal frame was touching something on the motherboard, causing the machine to not start to come at life at all. luckily it didn't seem to cause any permanent damage.
02:10:29 <esowiki> [[Alarm Clock Radio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54014&oldid=34188 * Conor O'Brien * (+135) add interpreter reference
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02:32:37 <oerjan> bood evenily.
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03:23:45 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Jo King *  New user account
03:26:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54015&oldid=53997 * Jo King * (+311) introduced myself
03:28:15 <esowiki> [[Cardinal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54016&oldid=50825 * Jo King * (+39) fixed incorrect commands (NSEW -> UDLR
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11:45:00 <boily> aaaaaurgh. didn't have to unplug my mouse, but now the fan is crazy and I can't get it to spin like a normal fan.
11:45:08 * boily kicks his desktop
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11:51:02 <int-e> not a fan of fanatic fans, eh?
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11:54:09 * boily gold plates his mapole and royally thwacks int-e. 1.00 FP.
11:54:47 <boily> int-ello. it's noisy, but the temp remains around 50 °C so the hardware isn't melting away...
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12:14:38 <int-e> boily: so, have you tried switching it off and on again?
12:15:06 * int-e quietly removes the battered int-e decoy and replaces it with a new one.
12:16:18 <int-e> `? boily
12:16:19 <HackEgo> ​“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
12:17:34 <int-e> `? oerjan
12:17:35 <HackEgo> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
12:17:50 <boily> int-e: I powered it off yesterday night. this morning the mouse works, but the fan level is too powerful.
12:18:19 <boily> I still have to escape to GRUB, recovery mode, then resume if I want to be able to Alt-F2 then startx.
12:18:41 * boily punches, elbows and shoulders the damned thing
12:19:14 <int-e> `slwed boily//s/Only sane adverb/Sane Mapoleon/
12:19:15 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwed: not found
12:19:21 <int-e> `slwd boily//s/Only sane adverb/Sane Mapoleon/
12:19:23 <HackEgo> boily//“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
12:20:21 <boily> `slwd oerjan//s/twice/thrice/
12:20:23 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He thrice punned without noticing it.
12:24:35 <int-e> TIL that DST was last introduced between 1977 and 1980 for most of Europe (and previously during the 1st and 2nd world war).
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13:33:14 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54017&oldid=53992 * Noner Kao * (-135) change some spec
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15:21:13 <esowiki> [[Instruction pointer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54018&oldid=8784 * Ais523 * (+21) change to section redirect
15:25:02 <izabera> https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/240/emojipedia/113/smiling-face-with-smiling-eyes-and-three-hearts_1f970.png
15:25:11 <izabera> did you notice any problems with the THREE hearts?
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17:04:47 <Guest78223> izabera : I guess one of these heart is a FAKE
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17:50:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * 3snoW *  New user account
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17:56:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54019&oldid=54015 * 3snoW * (+349) /* Introductions */
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18:10:09 <esowiki> [[Number Factory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54020&oldid=53006 * 3snoW * (+902) I want to include a bit of code for those interested :)
18:13:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54021&oldid=47028 * Martin Ender * (+482) 
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18:30:05 <esowiki> [[The Waterfall Model]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54022 * Ais523 * (+9776) new language?
18:30:36 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54023&oldid=54006 * Ais523 * (+26) /* T */ +[[The Waterfall Model]]
18:31:02 <esowiki> [[User:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54024&oldid=53661 * Ais523 * (+25) +[[The Waterfall Model]]
18:33:09 <ais523> I'm really happy with this language, it seems like there's a lot of promise for compiling to and from it and for writing interesting implementations
18:35:06 <esowiki> [[Number Factory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54025&oldid=54020 * 3snoW * (+178) /* Interpreter */
18:35:59 <esowiki> [[Number Factory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54026&oldid=54025 * 3snoW * (+2) /* Interpreter */
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18:52:53 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54027 * DMC * (+3342) Created page with "'''No-Register Assembly Language''' - A simple assembly-style language based on a hypothetical processor that has no internal registers. Created by [[User:DMC]]  ==General Con..."
18:53:44 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54028&oldid=54023 * DMC * (+12) /* N */
18:54:50 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54029&oldid=53983 * DMC * (+22) 
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20:51:03 <shachaf> `olist 1112
20:51:04 <HackEgo> olist 1112: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:59:05 <zzo38> One of the hearts is small
21:01:07 <Phantom_Hoover> is this commentary on something zzo38
21:01:36 <zzo38> It is the picture izabera linked to
21:01:53 <zzo38> There is three hearts other than the small one
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21:35:47 <zzo38> Do you think this is good?  https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/GURPS1  Maybe you know more stuff which is applicable to add
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23:15:53 <zzo38> Now I read Waterfall Model; I think it is good. (But, shouldn't they be called "Waterclocks Model" instead?)
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23:41:37 * boily straps an automatic kicker to his desktop
23:41:52 <shachaf> `5 w
23:41:57 <HackEgo> 1/2:brain//Brains are just receptacles for bricks. \ ☃//Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. \ fnord am//Fnord AM is the repeated hour that happens when DST resolves. It is customary to celebrate it with a Garou Ping if one is awake during that time. \ imperative language/
23:42:06 <shachaf> `n
23:42:07 <HackEgo> 2/2:/Imperative languages tell you what to do. \ monomorphism//A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
23:42:57 <shachaf> `cwlprits ☃
23:43:05 <HackEgo> int-̈e FireFl̈y
23:43:17 <shachaf> `quote HIRAGANA
23:43:18 <HackEgo> 1257) <mauris> MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW
23:43:32 <shachaf> lynn: hynn
23:44:23 <shachaf> For some reason I thought that haiku was fizzie's.
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2018-02-10:

00:02:18 <lynn> I actually bumped into it again just the other day!
00:02:27 <lynn> it's so good. there's so many layers to it
00:03:39 <shachaf> I should adopt SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW
00:03:57 <shachaf> http://unicode.org/consortium/adopted-characters.html
00:10:19 <zzo38> I found apparently Hero Mesh has a undocumented command called "UpdateScreen". (I saw it used in another puzzle set.)
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00:36:07 <boily> lynn: hellynn. you know fizzie?
00:37:11 <oerjan> helloily. when was my third unnoticed pun twh
00:37:50 <shachaf> `dowg oerjan
00:38:34 <boily> bonsøirjan. I don't know, but you will probably some time in the future.
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00:41:06 <shachaf> what's going on with HackEgo tdnh
00:41:09 <shachaf> Oh.
00:42:07 <shachaf> I like "twice".
00:42:19 <shachaf> It should only be changed if there's a good third unnoticed pun.
00:42:26 <boily> I think “thrice” sounds better...
00:42:51 <boily> I shall wait for the Third Unnoticed Pun.
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00:43:35 <shachaf> `doag
00:43:36 <HackEgo> 11342:2018-02-09 <boil̈y> slwd oerjan//s/twice/thrice/ \ 11341:2018-02-09 <int-̈e> slwd boily//s/Only sane adverb/Sane Mapoleon/ \ 11340:2018-02-06 <wob_jonäs> slashlearn peace witch//Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They\'re in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom
00:43:43 <shachaf> `revert
00:43:44 <HackEgo> Done.
00:43:55 <shachaf> You gotta wait for the pun.
00:43:56 <shachaf> `mkx bin/dowrjan//dowg oerjan
00:43:58 <HackEgo> bin/dowrjan
00:50:55 <esowiki> [[Talk:Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54030&oldid=54021 * Oerjan * (+305) /* Source of the Wumpus quote */ Chris Pressey added it
00:55:25 <oerjan> so many ppcg'ers... and i won rookie answer of 2017 !
00:56:13 <shachaf> i assume dowrjan = dowry oerjan
00:56:21 <shachaf> but i didn't know oerjan was married
00:56:28 <oerjan> i assumed it was a reference to the dowager thing
00:56:36 <oerjan> `grwp dowager
00:56:38 <HackEgo> dowg:A dowg is a wise dog. One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager.
00:56:44 <shachaf> Oh, I forgot about that.
00:56:55 <shachaf> That's kind of scow now that I reread it. Feel free to undo.
01:28:58 <zzo38> Now I thought of to make up "16-bit reversible chess notation".
01:29:18 <shachaf> How many bits do you need for Magic: The Gathering notation?
01:33:03 <zzo38> I don't know; it is going to be much more complicated. Including hidden information, random, making choices while another player's ability is resolving, nested mana steps, etc
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01:40:50 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54031&oldid=54027 * DMC * (+25) /* Hello World! */
01:41:41 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54032&oldid=54031 * DMC * (+2) 
01:42:00 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54033&oldid=54032 * DMC * (+1) /* Hello World\n */
01:43:09 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54034&oldid=54033 * DMC * (+8) /* General Concept */
01:45:39 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54035&oldid=54034 * DMC * (+1) /* General Concept */
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02:04:52 <zzo38> Here it is:  https://arin.ga/Q84gcj  Do you have a comment of it please?
02:07:03 <zzo38> (You can write the resulting 16-bit number in octal. Octal is rarely helpful, but in a few cases, such as in this case, it is good to have.)
02:07:46 <boily> hezzo38. sounds very compact!
02:08:01 <boily> ("En-passant")
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02:12:02 <zzo38> "Reversible" here means that the moves can be played backward as well as forward. (This is why promotion is to a knight by default, rather than a queen.)
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15:05:07 <boily> `5 w
15:05:12 <HackEgo> 1/1:connecticut//Connecticut is a US state named in recognition of its extremely unstable communication networks. \ doesthiswork//no \ freenode//The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? \ hand//A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel
15:05:13 <boily> `n
15:05:13 <HackEgo> 1/1:connecticut//Connecticut is a US state named in recognition of its extremely unstable communication networks. \ doesthiswork//no \ freenode//The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? \ hand//A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel
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17:11:52 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54036&oldid=52739 * Conor O'Brien * (+458) /* Implementations */ add Attache
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21:02:40 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
21:03:11 <\oren\> 膚 is undrawable! TOO MANY HORZONTAL LINES
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21:17:01 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/undrawable.png <-- I guess the person who drew this variant agreed
21:19:18 <\oren\> yeah
21:19:25 <\oren\> I did something like that
21:27:15 <\oren\> 罷羞羨翁翻翼耐耗聘聴肌肖肘肝股肢肩
21:27:15 <\oren\> 肪肯胆胎胞胴脂脅脇脊脚脱腎腐腕腫腰腺膚膜
21:27:16 <\oren\> 膝膨膳臆
21:27:25 <\oren\> are the new ones I've drawn
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21:38:06 <fizzie> The one in int-e's link looks like a person with square-shaped glasses and a ponytail.
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21:47:47 <Soni> is hexchat turing-complete?
21:59:37 <zzo38> I don't know?
22:15:20 <\oren\> `unicode SVASTI
22:15:22 <HackEgo> U+0FD5 RIGHT-FACING SVASTI SIGN \ UTF-8: e0 bf 95  UTF-16BE: 0fd5  Decimal: &#4053; \ ࿕ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \  \ U+0FD6 LEFT-FACING SVASTI SIGN \ UTF-8: e0 bf 96  UTF-16BE: 0fd6  Decimal: &#4054; \ ࿖ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \  \ U+0FD7 RIGHT-FACING SVASTI SIGN WITH DOTS \ UTF
22:15:45 <\oren\> how many swastikas are there in unicode?!?!?
22:21:18 <Taneb> At least one more
22:22:26 <esowiki> [[User:Qwertyu63]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54037&oldid=52625 * Qwertyu63 * (+3245) 
22:23:50 <zzo38> Swastika comes in different orientations, with or without dots.
22:26:25 <\oren\> `unicode swastika
22:26:26 <HackEgo> No output.
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22:34:36 <zzo38> Such as, left or right orientation, in either case with or without dots, and then there is the diagonal swastika. So that are at least five kind
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22:50:52 <zzo38> And then, maybe there may be some more; do you know?
22:51:44 <LKoen> well, arguably the diagonal svastika could also have either clockwise or counterclockwise orientation, and dots or no dots
22:51:52 <LKoen> so that'd make 8 possibilities
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22:53:33 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose so, but as far as I know the only diagonal swastika used is the one Hitler used; if you are not associated with Hitler then generally don't use diagonal swastika.
22:58:52 <zzo38> (Although maybe I am wrong)
23:00:49 <zzo38> What error code should be used with errno in case of invalid file formats?
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23:30:46 <pknight> what is the best esoteric language
23:31:03 <variable> pknight: all of them
23:31:11 <variable> pknight: particularly the ones I wrote
23:31:23 <pknight> which did you write?
23:31:30 <variable> TOD
23:31:33 <LKoen> that depends on your tastes, I guess
23:34:03 <pknight> wow TOD is a real gem
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2018-02-11:

00:00:35 -!- variable has quit (Quit: /dev/null is full).
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00:24:05 <wob_jonas> `pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/pbf282-smile/
00:24:05 <HackEgo> pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/pbf282-smile/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas
00:24:38 <Sgeo_> HexChat decided that the : was part of the URL
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03:09:58 <moony> `unidecode 
03:09:59 <HackEgo> No output.
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04:25:54 <esowiki> [[EVM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54038 * Iovoid * (+192) Created page
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04:37:47 <wob_jonas> Sgeo_: HexChat is correct. either the pbflist script should be changed so it adds a space or double quotes or something, or it shouldn't be used with an URL, but I don't know what it should be used with then
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05:15:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * William915 *  New user account
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05:20:29 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54039&oldid=54019 * William915 * (+524) /* Introductions */
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05:52:49 <zzo38> I believe you that the colon could be a part of the URL and if it tries to parse the URL, it is correct to include the colon, too. If that is improper, don't write it like that (you could put <> around the URL, is one way to distinguish it).
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06:48:20 <zzo38> Sometimes it happens, that although I can receive, I cannot send (and I can see the ping timeout message from the server) (this applies to all protocols, not just IRC); restarting the router fixes it. Do you know why?
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07:56:23 <zzo38> I tried to see how my GURPS story is displayed on Lynx. It look like it works fine; the footnotes are displayed in a reasonable way, too (I checked because I wasn't sure if it would or not).
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10:08:51 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re reversible chess move notation, the writeup doesn't tell how you encode whether castling was possible before the move
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14:21:17 <boily> `5 w
14:21:22 <HackEgo> 1/1:magic//The magic was in you all along. \ 42//42 is The Answer. Heed it. \ slough//slough /slaʊ/ or /sluː/ means a marsh; slough /slʌf/ means skin thrown off a reptile \ flagpole//A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top. \ guarantee//HackEgo is guaranteed merchantable.
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18:07:26 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Singingbanana *  New user account
18:15:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54040&oldid=54039 * Singingbanana * (+345) 
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18:16:39 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54041&oldid=54040 * Singingbanana * (-377) 
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18:19:24 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54042&oldid=54041 * Singingbanana * (+126) 
18:20:41 <esowiki> [[Triangularity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54043&oldid=54007 * Mr. Xcoder * (+18) 
18:25:11 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54044&oldid=54042 * Singingbanana * (+33) 
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20:24:26 <esowiki> [[EVM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54045&oldid=54038 * Zzo38 * (+10) stub
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20:55:14 * APic loves You all ♥
20:55:20 <APic> Just wanted to clarify that Factum.  😉
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2018-02-12:

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00:32:58 <zzo38> Why some people using iPad to send email message to me, I get three question marks in place of every apostrophe?
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00:36:35 <shachaf> What are the bytes they send you, and in what encoding?
00:37:29 <zzo38> Quoted-printable UTF-8. The bytes sent are: =E2=80=99
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00:44:28 <shachaf> That looks like it encodes U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
00:50:36 <zzo38> But they aren't using it as a quotation, for one thing.
00:51:49 <shachaf> Sometimes people usee them as apostrophes for some reason.
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01:48:44 <boily> alercah: hellorcah. riichi dora dora dora dora dora dora dora dora.
01:49:36 <alercah> ow ow ow
01:53:15 <boily> mwah ah ah :D
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02:08:26 <deltab> U+2019 is Unicode's preferred apostrophe
02:08:33 <deltab> https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/quotes.html 
02:09:17 <boily> that is preposterou’s.
02:43:12 <zzo38> deltab: Nevertheless is no good. Well, we figured out the problem and he fixed it; if "smart punctuation" is turned off then it will use the ASCII apostrophe instead.
02:47:41 <deltab> getting three question marks suggests the bytes are being wrongly decoded using a single-byte character encoding, instead of UTF-8
02:49:08 <deltab> does the message have a Content-Type header? that should have charset=utf-8
02:49:23 <zzo38> Yes it does says "charset=utf-8"
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02:49:51 <deltab> what are you using to read it? does it understand utf-8?
02:50:06 <zzo38> I use Heirloom-mailx
02:50:51 <zzo38> And the man page says it does understand UTF-8. Nevertheless, it is not a problem now, since it has been corrected.
02:55:21 <deltab> maybe LC_CTYPE or ttycharset has the wrong value. http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/mailx/mailx.1.html#13 
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03:59:01 <esowiki> [[Forked]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54046 * MD XF * (+5744) Created page with "= Forked =  Forked is an esoteric stack-based two-dimensional language with multiple IPs, based on [[/git.io/triangular|Triangular]] and written around the #Fork|fork comman..."
03:59:36 <esowiki> [[Forked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54047&oldid=54046 * MD XF * (-19) 
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04:21:39 <zzo38> I have continue writing ZPXDB, but is not quite finish writing yet. I can show you the codes now if you wanted to, in case you can find any mistakes
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04:35:42 <Sgeo__> There exists an SCP story called "Public Static Void"
04:49:03 <alercah> link?
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05:18:43 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54048&oldid=54044 * Oerjan * (+1) Fix editing error
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06:47:37 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54049 * DMC * (+2446) Created page with "Like Brainfuck - only much, much, worse. * another [[brainfuck]] variation that uses 1-bit memory cells * four commands <code> < > ( ) </code> * two interpreter commands <code..."
06:48:29 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54050&oldid=54028 * DMC * (+13) /* B */
06:49:48 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54051&oldid=54049 * DMC * (-21) /* Description */
06:50:43 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54052&oldid=54051 * DMC * (+0) /* The Commands */
06:51:31 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54053&oldid=54052 * DMC * (+0) /* Description */
06:52:22 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54054&oldid=54053 * DMC * (+0) /* The Commands */
06:54:34 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54055&oldid=54054 * DMC * (+6) /* Tedious original set-up */
06:55:08 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54056&oldid=54055 * DMC * (+0) /* Hello, World!/n */
06:55:35 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54057&oldid=54056 * DMC * (-4) /* The Commands */
06:56:36 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54058&oldid=54057 * DMC * (+1) /* Hello, World!\n */
06:57:45 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54059&oldid=54058 * DMC * (+0) /* Hello, World!\n */
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07:17:29 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54060&oldid=54029 * DMC * (+73) 
07:20:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54061&oldid=54050 * DMC * (+52) /* H */
07:26:47 <Sgeo__> alercah, www.scp-wiki.net/public-static-void
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07:33:48 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54062&oldid=54059 * DMC * (+319) 
07:39:24 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54063&oldid=54060 * DMC * (+4) 
07:41:34 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54064&oldid=54062 * DMC * (+43) 
07:43:54 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54065&oldid=54064 * DMC * (-8) /* Initialization process */
07:45:22 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54066&oldid=54065 * DMC * (-66) /* Initialization process */
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09:04:04 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54067&oldid=54010 * DMC * (+4) /* Hello World!\n */
09:10:18 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54068&oldid=54035 * DMC * (+95) 
09:13:23 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54069&oldid=54066 * DMC * (+96) 
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11:47:35 <boily> fungot: are you graphical?
11:47:35 <fungot> boily: and besides, what fiction has a true core, though:
11:47:56 <boily> fungot: all of them.
11:47:56 <fungot> boily: does bee ( the bigloo ide)? i
11:48:16 <boily> fungot: it does be do be do.
11:48:17 <fungot> boily: or test symbol before dotted-list., a russian scheme system that you'll probably find that define-macro itself is very simple
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12:32:15 <fizzie> fungot: Does a bee care? 
12:32:15 <fungot> fizzie: i used a min/ max to search a string to mean.
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12:47:00 <esowiki> [[Talk:Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54070&oldid=54030 * Martin Ender * (+452) /* Source of the Wumpus quote */
12:49:19 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Grid.png]]"
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12:51:24 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Cell-coordinates.png]]"
12:53:16 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Vertex-coordinates.png]]"
12:54:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Ip-movement.png]]"
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12:58:13 <esowiki> [[Wumpus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54076 * Martin Ender * (+22440) Created page with "Wumpus is a recreational, two-dimensional programming language, where the instruction pointer moves on a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_tiling triangular grid] (and..."
13:02:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Net-1.png]]"
13:02:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Net-2.png]]"
13:04:13 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Net-1-rotations-unlabeled.png]]"
13:04:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Martin Ender *  uploaded "[[File:Net-2-rotations-unlabeled.png]]"
13:07:53 <esowiki> [[Wumpus]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54081&oldid=54076 * Martin Ender * (-821) 
13:10:59 <esowiki> [[User:Martin Ender]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54082&oldid=53538 * Martin Ender * (+208) 
13:11:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54083&oldid=54061 * Martin Ender * (+13) /* W */
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13:12:22 <esowiki> [[List of quines]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54084&oldid=53551 * Martin Ender * (+31) add Wumpus
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13:47:04 <mroman> good midafternoon
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20:29:21 <esowiki> [[MashedPotatoes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54085&oldid=52686 * Mercerenies * (+108) Added categories
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20:38:50 <olsner> fungot: are you happy?
20:38:51 <fungot> olsner: it's probably still trying to look up the 3 fnord projections. i think
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21:09:04 <zzo38> When recording the story of this GURPS game, the calendar system (used only to describe the story) is the Julian calendar, but the zero reference is the nearest leap year on or before the events of the story. Does this calendar system have a name? If not, what are you going to call it?
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22:31:45 <\oren\> what if every non-alphanumberic symbol was a sigil
22:31:59 <\oren\> indicating a different datatype
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23:21:34 <boily> fungot: nostril.
23:21:35 <fungot> boily: damn straight.
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00:22:20 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54086&oldid=54017 * Noner Kao * (-1) /* Dialect */ Fix grammar
00:22:58 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54087&oldid=54086 * Noner Kao * (-6) /* References */
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01:51:56 <esowiki> [[Forked]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54088&oldid=54047 * MD XF * (+28) 
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01:53:37 <alercah> Sgeo__: I'm disappointed tbh
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01:55:04 <esowiki> [[Forked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54089&oldid=54088 * MD XF * (+140) 
01:55:41 <esowiki> [[Forked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54090&oldid=54089 * MD XF * (-63) wait what
01:56:32 <esowiki> [[Forked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54091&oldid=54090 * MD XF * (+18) 
01:59:51 <esowiki> [[Forked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54092&oldid=54091 * MD XF * (+333) 
02:14:00 <zzo38> Here is the (so far, completely untested) ZPXDB code:  https://arin.ga/3S58lb  https://arin.ga/azDImU
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03:53:52 <oerjan> wut
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04:07:21 <oerjan> suddenly constant
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07:41:31 <zzo38> Is there such a thing as "national 20 GOTO 10 day"?
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09:08:37 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54093&oldid=53916 * William915 * (+444) /* Partially Silly Ideas */
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11:41:43 <boily> `5 n
11:41:45 <HackEgo> 1/1:1/0:1/0:1/0:1/0:1/0:
11:41:53 <boily> `5 w
11:41:58 <HackEgo> 1/2:tanea//Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Cambridgd. \ \oren\//\oren\ is an optical attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... unenthickenable, eh? \ zoidberg//Zoidberg is almost definitely a distinct entity from oerjan (p = .02). \ twint-e/
11:41:59 <boily> `n
11:42:00 <HackEgo> 2/2:/twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. \ lie//Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
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12:09:00 <wob_jonas> I have a HTML/CSS question. How can I display a box (image with caption, or table) as floated to the right of the main text if the remaining text is at least a certain width, but displayed without text next to it otherwise? The box must be properly floated in the sense that below the box the text must continue in full width, this isn't a sidebar th
12:09:00 <wob_jonas> at occupies an infinitely long vertical strip.
12:10:44 <wob_jonas> This is a real problem that I haven't seen solved in most websites, because very often floated boxes become too wide so the text becomes layed out in an ugly hard to read narrow column next to them (since I use a large font and apparently many websites are designed to use tiny fonts).
12:11:37 <wob_jonas> Is my question clear?
12:16:05 <boily> wellob_jonas.
12:16:29 <boily> on the <div /> that floats, have you tried width and max-width?
12:17:19 <wob_jonas> boily: I haven't, but I believe that adjusts the width of the float itself, it won't make sure that the part of the text next to it can't degenerate to too narrow
12:18:00 <wob_jonas> Unless I guess you set it to width=50% or some such fixed percentage, in which case both the float and the rest of the text can be too narrow
12:18:07 <boily> you want that if the viewport is too narrow, then the main text next to the float should become too narrow?
12:18:18 <boily> s/should/should not/
12:18:44 <boily> a proportional width is not the way to go.
12:18:59 <boily> there's that conditional annotation I forgot the name of...
12:19:36 <wob_jonas> if the viewport is too narrow, then I want to display this as not a float, but as a separate full-width paragraph-like item
12:19:49 <boily> got it! it's @media you want: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media
12:19:50 <wob_jonas> I don't want both to become too narrow
12:20:18 <boily> on a large screen you can nicely float your figure with caption, then on a small one you can 'display: block' it and it appears all nice.
12:20:29 <wob_jonas> that is, I have a minimal width for the text and either a fixed width or an implicitly computed width for the possibly-float box
12:20:38 <wob_jonas> and if the two together would be too much, then it shouldn't be a float
12:20:51 <boily> @media is the way to do it.
12:20:51 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
12:20:55 <wob_jonas> oh, nice!
12:21:02 * boily flblblblbls at lambdabot
12:21:31 <wob_jonas> let me read that
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12:27:18 <wob_jonas> boily: thanks. that's not a perfect solution, because it can't take into account the computed value of the float, but a good approximate solution that should work in many practical cases, and certainly better than nothing
13:24:43 <esowiki> [[Stacker]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54094&oldid=49196 * Conor O'Brien * (-14) /* Implementation */
13:25:17 <esowiki> [[Stacker]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54095&oldid=54094 * Conor O'Brien * (+5) /* Implementation */
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17:02:56 <int-e> ... 128 bit RSA key ... what could possibly go wrong ...
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17:27:44 <esowiki> [[Haddock]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54096&oldid=53356 * Singingbanana * (+674) 
17:28:54 <esowiki> [[Haddock]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54097&oldid=54096 * Singingbanana * (-4) 
17:31:23 <esowiki> [[Haddock]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54098&oldid=54097 * Singingbanana * (+13) 
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17:36:55 <esowiki> [[Haddock]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54099&oldid=54098 * Singingbanana * (-27) 
17:41:16 <esowiki> [[Haddock]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54100&oldid=54099 * Singingbanana * (-1) 
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19:24:15 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54101 * Singingbanana * (+835) Created page with "s'''Haddock2''' is a theoretical esolang based the extended multiple lambda notation by singingbanana & Dan_zh.   ==== Example ==== lambda(x.x+lambda(x.x+1)) in lambda calculu..."
19:24:35 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54102&oldid=54101 * Singingbanana * (-1) 
19:25:50 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54103&oldid=54102 * Singingbanana * (+4) 
19:31:02 <int-e> I love this part. "Haddock2 is Turing-complete because it applicable the Church-Turing thesis. It is a lambda language, so any program can be written with it, though the efficiency will be lower then Java."
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22:37:21 <\oren\> *boop* "how do I activate the voice recognition" *bling* "The way you just did, retard!"
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02:43:25 * oerjan is slightly disturbed by the edits completely changing Haddock
02:44:33 <oerjan> not that either version is a good language.
02:45:10 <oerjan> but the original author should confirm if they agree to them.
02:47:01 <alercah> Haddock is a language?
03:04:17 <wob_jonas> no, it's a fish
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03:38:08 <oerjan> also a language.
03:38:15 <oerjan> or three
03:38:42 <APic> Four.
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11:41:30 <boily> @massages-loud
11:41:30 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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13:29:46 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54104 * Singingbanana * (+265) Created page with "Singingbanana is an annoying programmer who no one talks to. He talks 24/7 about lambda calculus(that's why he wears the greek alphabet t-shirt!). He created the whole Hadoock..."
13:30:11 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54105&oldid=54104 * Singingbanana * (-1) 
13:30:24 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54106&oldid=54105 * Singingbanana * (+1) 
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17:11:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54107&oldid=54083 * Dehodson * (+13) Added TinCan, as I forgot to do so 7 years ago
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18:30:24 <int-e> . o O ( The Invisible Hand guides the monopolists towards maximizing their own profits. )
18:32:13 <int-e> `? gdp
18:32:29 <int-e> oh.
18:32:38 <int-e> fungot: what happened to HackEgo?
18:32:38 <fungot> int-e: because it's pretty hard
18:32:52 <int-e> fungot: oh, was it painful?
18:32:52 <fungot> int-e: eval ' ( 0="foo" 0)) ( square b) ( something-else a ( blah b) blah))) 1)
18:33:13 <int-e> fungot: I'll take that as a yes
18:33:14 <fungot> int-e: wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a plt http client software related dos.
18:35:24 <shachaf> that wouldn't surprise me one bit, fungot
18:35:24 <fungot> shachaf: i don't think the author has something to do
18:35:34 <shachaf> exactly
18:36:16 <shachaf> int-e: hint-e
18:36:51 <shachaf> Is there a standard notion of the inverse of a tensor of any type? How do you compute it?
18:36:52 <int-e> shichif
18:37:34 <int-e> . o O ( I know the answer for square matrices... )
18:41:32 <shachaf> What about (2,0) tensors?
18:41:49 <shachaf> I think the inverse of a (2,0) tensor is a (0,2) tensor.
18:42:18 <shachaf> And maybe numerically it even has the same values as an inverse matrix.
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19:33:13 <int-e> fizzie: btw, HackEgo is absent.
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20:08:36 <RusselsTeapot> I'm working on a esoteric language named sofun for a project in university, which essentially is a stack based functional language in reverse polish notation. Functions take arguments and return a stack that is integrated in the main stack where the function and its argument got popped. Executing a program means evaluating a main stack and substituting all the functions and their arguments with their return stack: '2 3 +' is 5 
20:08:36 <RusselsTeapot> because '+' takes 2 and 3 and returns 5. Because of Reverse polish notation all syntax symbols needed are ":" for assigning functions and "?" for Branches. Do you all think this idea has enough potential for me to try and write a esolangwiki article on it with my mediocre english skills?
20:09:46 <Taneb> I think you should go for it!
20:09:57 <Taneb> I can guarantee there'll have been worse
20:10:25 <RusselsTeapot> to get an idea of the syntax, this is the solution of the first taks of projecteuler.net, "Find the sum of all the multiples of 3 and 5 below 1000":
20:10:27 <RusselsTeapot> num sums ? 1000 num = : 0 ? num 3 % ~ num 5 % ~ | : num num 1 + sums + ? num 1 + sums
20:11:13 <RusselsTeapot> i admit, its not really readable. But hey, its esoteric, it doesnt have to
20:11:26 <Taneb> Have you seen FALSE?
20:11:46 <RusselsTeapot> nope, gimme a sec
20:12:39 <int-e> RusselsTeapot: I can't see you!
20:13:45 <Taneb> int-e, that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't there
20:13:46 <RusselsTeapot> hm, sounds interesting. It isnt as functional as my approach though and thus needs more syntax it seems
20:14:02 <Taneb> Yeah, you fall somewhere between it and Underload I think
20:14:12 <RusselsTeapot> @int-e: In the irc-channel? idk why
20:14:13 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:15:29 <RusselsTeapot> oh, sry. im not that used to irc. Answers go without @, i know
20:15:35 <int-e> RusselsTeapot: I can believe that you're there. But my instruments aren't powerful enough to detect you.
20:15:40 <int-e> :P
20:16:05 <RusselsTeapot> :)
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20:19:20 <RusselsTeapot> Taneb: i didn't know underload either, seems like i have much to learn.
20:21:59 <RusselsTeapot> Designing languages, writing interpreters and finally seeing the first test programs work is really cool. Maybe I'll do some of the not yet implemented languages on esolangs next. I've got a lot to learn, I think
20:23:18 <RusselsTeapot> oh, by the way. My code is online. The basic functionality is mostly done, but all the comments and the specification is still in german :( https://github.com/Rieselhilfe/sofun
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21:12:56 <fizzie> int-e: Hmm. No answer from CaC.
21:34:34 <shachaf> HackEgo is still running on CaC?
21:34:52 <shachaf> i,i well, not anymore
21:46:58 <int-e> shachaf: anyway I don't really understand tensors, not even the (1,1) kind (they're bilinear functions. but that's also true for (2,0) and (0,2) tensors) I don't know how to turn the bilinear function of a (1,1) tensor into a linear map. So... meh.
21:48:28 <int-e> But I'm pretty sure that they also won't help me with applying Rice's theorem so I guess that's okay :P
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21:51:06 <shachaf> What are you applying Rice's theorem to?
21:51:27 <shachaf> A (1,1) tensor is e.g
21:51:30 <int-e> I want undecidability of the halting problem for Minsky machines. I have it for computable functions.
21:51:33 <shachaf> Er
21:51:58 <int-e> thanks to https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/Recursion-Theory-I.html
21:52:13 <shachaf> f : V -o ((V -o F) -o F)
21:52:48 <shachaf> I think you can turn that into a linear map pretty easily hth
21:53:15 <int-e> ah
21:53:21 <int-e> parentheses help
21:53:29 <int-e> the lollypops don't :P
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21:53:36 <int-e> lollipops
21:54:31 <shachaf> They just mean a linear map.
21:55:36 <int-e> Wait, are you conflating "linear" and "linear"? Is that standard?
21:56:04 <shachaf> You mean linear logic and linear algebra?
21:56:05 <int-e> fungot: please try to make sense!
21:56:06 <fungot> int-e: for some of my contributions as well,
21:56:07 <int-e> shachaf: yes
21:56:14 <shachaf> I didn't invent this usage.
21:58:11 <int-e> Anyway, writing out V* that way helped, thanks.
21:58:53 <shachaf> I'm typing on a phone so this is pretty slow
21:59:41 <shachaf> The point is, the "Hessian" is a (0,2) tensor, not a (1,1) tensor
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22:15:25 <Taneb> int-e, I think I remember reading that it works out there's some sort of correspondence between linear logic and linear algebra
22:18:16 <shachaf> I'd like to know more about the details of that
22:18:36 <shachaf> Is it just that they're both whatever monoidal categories?
22:18:42 <shachaf> Probably more than that.
22:19:24 <Taneb> Sadly I can't remember details
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22:22:10 <wob_jonas> `ping hi
22:22:45 <APic> ☺
22:37:02 <RusselsTeapot> is there a list of typical example programs like "hello world" or "99 Bottles" that show specific features of programming languages?
22:37:47 <int-e> Meh, I want a stronger (and perhaps slightly nonstandard) version of Rice. Oh well, not today.
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23:22:14 <fizzie> HackEgo: Oh, you're back.
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23:40:21 <wob_jonas> RussellsTeapot: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages and see the links I put to the start
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2018-02-15:

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01:48:53 <wob_jonas> RussellsTeapot: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages and see the links I put to the start
01:50:03 <shachaf> "Helelo world program in esoteric languages" is the name of my esolang tdnh
01:50:49 <wob_jonas> shachaf: don't worry, we've had to do disambiguations because of identically named programming languages already.
01:51:14 <shachaf> Also my keyboard keeps typing double letters like that.
01:51:19 <wob_jonas> sometimes it's a non-esoteric programming language or tool with the same name as an esolang, occasionally it's two esolangs
01:51:32 <shachaf> Not immedaiely but with a small delay, so a second letter goes between them and it looks like I'm terrible at typing.
01:51:43 <shachaf> "immediately" -- no excuse for that one.
01:52:09 <wob_jonas> x86 is the funniest
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01:52:34 <wob_jonas> you should probably replace that keyboard
01:52:47 <shachaf> It's a laptop keyboard.
01:52:59 <wob_jonas> plug in an external keyboard then
01:53:27 <shachaf> i,i Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 2: A Cut Above Download
01:54:37 <wob_jonas> shachaf: these days malwares masking as film downloads say "full movie" instead of "real fast" for some reason
01:54:57 <wob_jonas> which is nice, because almost no legitimate site uses the phrase "full movie"
01:55:08 <wob_jonas> so you can spot it as spam easily
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05:48:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54108&oldid=54048 * ChromaticiT * (+182) /* Introductions */
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07:08:02 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Wright *  New user account
07:10:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54109&oldid=54108 * Wright * (+246) /* Introductions */
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07:39:59 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54110&oldid=53930 * Wright * (+2325) /* "A good GUI interpreter for Black" */ new section
07:40:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54111&oldid=54110 * Wright * (+82) Forgot signature
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09:54:46 <int-e> `thanks HackEgo
09:54:55 <HackEgo> Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo.
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11:23:41 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54112&oldid=54103 * Singingbanana * (+211) 
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11:47:22 <boily> `5 w
11:47:28 <HackEgo> 1/2:alice//Alice doesn't want to go among mad people. \ sparse matrix algorithm//Sparse matrix algorithms are a trivial special case of non-sparse matrix algorithms, by conjugating with the sparsification operation. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel \ ramen//拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 \ sewerjan//sewerjan is oerjan's extre
11:50:49 <boily> `n
11:50:50 <HackEgo> 2/2:mely poor twin.
11:54:12 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f -iname '*rjan*'
11:54:13 <HackEgo> wisdom/œrjan \ wisdom/אrjan \ wisdom/sewerjan \ wisdom/boorjan \ wisdom/ørjan \ wisdom/örjan \ wisdom/typoerjan \ wisdom/oerjan
11:54:27 <boily> `? œrjan
11:54:28 <HackEgo> ​œrjan is oerjan and ørjan's superhero third cousin (once removed) from Québec. He got his cheesy powers by falling into a giant poutine bowl.
11:54:38 <boily> `? boorjan
11:54:39 <HackEgo> boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin.
11:55:03 <boily> `? örjan
11:55:04 <HackEgo> ​Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters.
11:55:21 <boily> such a heartwarming family.
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12:25:29 <int-e> punctüal?
12:27:14 <boily> ïnẗ-ëllö. puncture?
12:27:14 <int-e> Hmm, swearjan
12:27:32 * int-e misread "sewerjan" and is not wondering whether oerjan ever swears.
12:28:10 <int-e> `quote alice
12:28:11 <HackEgo> 923) <fungot> but when she saw him fnord and fnord. and then there's the fnord, as well as fnord reading sauce with fish, or fnord, that alice quite fnord for it hadn't spoken before.
12:28:37 <int-e> I have regrets.
12:28:54 <boily> everything's a fnord.
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20:45:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Truttle1 *  uploaded "[[File:Uyjhmn n IDE.png]]"
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21:14:58 <esowiki> [[Kipple]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54114&oldid=53670 * Fergusq * (+50) wayback
21:15:34 <esowiki> [[Kipple]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54115&oldid=54114 * Fergusq * (+0) 
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21:56:42 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is late.
21:56:45 <int-e> (amazing)
21:57:15 <int-e> oh it's not on the channel
21:57:52 <int-e> fizzie: !
21:58:44 <int-e> > reverse "gnp.js" -- who'd have thought...
21:58:46 <lambdabot>  "sj.png"
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21:58:58 <int-e> (cf. https://securelist.com/zero-day-vulnerability-in-telegram/83800/ )
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22:18:36 <\oren\> int-e: stupid unicode
22:21:00 <\oren\> unicode has a lot of incomplete provisions for use in practical software systems
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22:24:09 <fizzie> int-e: That happens sometimes. I think it's because the autojoin is just "sleep 10 ; echo JOIN ...".
22:25:34 <shachaf> `dowg password
22:25:36 <\oren\> like there should be a specification that invisible characters should be visibly displayed in particular circumstances
22:25:49 <HackEgo> 11345:2018-02-15 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is late. \ 11291:2017-12-31 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is early. \ 11251:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all beliefs (but not time zones) \ 11250:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all be
22:26:36 <\oren\> such as in filenames, source code/teletype text, and urls
22:32:29 <int-e> `unidecode oοоᴏꙩꙫꙮ
22:32:30 <HackEgo> ​[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+03BF GREEK SMALL LETTER OMICRON] [U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O] [U+1D0F LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL O] [U+A669 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER MONOCULAR O] [U+A66B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BINOCULAR O] [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
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22:35:36 <\oren\> theall those look different to me
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23:57:11 <boily> fungot: nostril.
23:57:12 <fungot> boily: and all programs print nothingness, since any cryptography algorithm i could devise would be made _considerably_ more complicated with ordinary shift reset.)
23:57:48 <shachaf> fungot makes an excellent point
23:57:48 <fungot> shachaf: char fnord is identical to char fnord ( char, size_t fnord) as to what you're looking for server hardware

2018-02-16:

00:18:14 <quintopia> helloily
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00:27:54 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA!
00:29:40 <oerjan> helloily, hellopia
00:34:31 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
00:38:02 <oerjan> <int-e> `learn The password of the month is late. <-- what, is it?
00:38:11 <oerjan> `dowg password
00:38:19 <HackEgo> 11345:2018-02-15 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is late. \ 11291:2017-12-31 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is early. \ 11251:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all beliefs (but not time zones) \ 11250:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all be
00:38:30 <oerjan> so it is.
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03:31:19 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54116 * Truttle1 * (+4346) Uyjhmn n is a programming language that rushes the user while having an annoying syntax that takes forever to type
03:32:40 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54117&oldid=54107 * Truttle1 * (+15) 
03:33:57 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54118&oldid=54116 * Truttle1 * (+26) 
03:35:24 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54119&oldid=54118 * Truttle1 * (+197) /* Video */
03:35:42 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54120&oldid=54119 * Truttle1 * (+44) /* Video */
03:36:37 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54121&oldid=54120 * Truttle1 * (+669) 
03:36:57 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54122&oldid=54121 * Truttle1 * (+21) /* Examples */
03:40:24 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54123&oldid=54122 * Truttle1 * (+29) /* Commands */
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04:53:56 <oerjan> rcm888: *cough*
04:54:23 <rcm888> oerjan: ye??
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05:00:59 <rcm888> oerjan: how would you make it?
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05:14:05 <oerjan> rcm888: oh, never mind. i saw all those quits and joins but didn't notice it was several minutes ago.
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05:21:05 <esowiki> [[Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54124&oldid=53677 * Ivan * (+81) /* Befunge-93 */
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06:14:05 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54125&oldid=54067 * DMC * (+25) /* External resources */
06:14:26 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54126&oldid=54125 * DMC * (-1) /* External resources */
06:15:09 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54127&oldid=54069 * DMC * (+24) /* External resources */
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11:15:27 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54128 * Singingbanana * (+2032) Created page with "''''Borsch'''' is named after a Russian/Ukrainian soup which consists of SMETANA, BEETROOT and others. SMETANA and BEETROOT are in caps as they are programming languages mixed..."
11:17:56 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54129&oldid=54128 * Singingbanana * (-9) 
11:18:57 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54130&oldid=54129 * Singingbanana * (-4) 
11:20:43 <int-e> Oh, poor щ.
11:22:07 <shachaf> i'm p. sure щ is some kind of prank letter
11:27:59 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54131&oldid=54130 * Singingbanana * (+342) 
11:28:41 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54132&oldid=54131 * Singingbanana * (+8) 
11:29:47 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54133&oldid=54132 * Singingbanana * (+3) 
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11:32:32 <int-e> shachaf: I'm pretty sure it's the last letter in борщ
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11:32:49 <int-e> Also pretty sure we practiced it quite a lot in school.
11:33:40 <int-e> But in any case, I understand that lazy people would make that into borsht, with whatever spelling. But leaving out the t as well goes a bit far.
11:34:42 <shachaf> ш is a "voiceless palato-alveolar fricative" and щ is a "voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative"
11:34:59 <shachaf> they sound p. much the same to me
11:35:05 <shachaf> p. sure it's a prank tdnh
11:37:38 <int-e> щ is basically pronounced as шч, where ч is pronounced тш :-P
11:38:55 <shachaf> The audio on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricative doesn't sound like that to me.
11:40:46 <int-e> Well, you're at least two levels of abstraction deep...
11:50:23 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bor%C8%99_(bran) may explain some of the confusion
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12:08:16 <esowiki> [[Ende]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54134 * Fergusq * (+13980) created page
12:09:24 <esowiki> [[Ende]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54135&oldid=54134 * Fergusq * (+59) categories
12:10:46 <esowiki> [[Ende]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54136&oldid=54135 * Fergusq * (+0) 
12:13:38 <esowiki> [[User:Fergusq]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54137&oldid=53780 * Fergusq * (+159) added tampio and ende
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12:25:45 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54138&oldid=54133 * Singingbanana * (+29) 
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12:30:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54139&oldid=54117 * Fergusq * (+11) /* E */ added ende
12:31:17 <esowiki> [[Ende]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54140&oldid=54136 * Fergusq * (-2) /* Cat program */ fixed cat program
12:49:56 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54141&oldid=54106 * Singingbanana * (+543) 
12:50:38 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54142&oldid=54141 * Singingbanana * (-60) 
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13:23:05 <myname> anybody an idea for an interesting topic for a master thesis?
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13:41:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Plokmijnuhby *  New user account
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14:44:26 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54143&oldid=54109 * Plokmijnuhby * (+212) /* Introductions */ Added plokmijnuhby.
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15:11:44 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54144 * Plokmijnuhby * (+549) Created page with "''Not to be confused with [[Heiroglyphic]].''  Heiroglyphics is an esolang based on Ancient Egyptian heiroglyphics. It focuses less on the actual symbols the Egyptians used an..."
15:13:35 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54145&oldid=54144 * Plokmijnuhby * (-549) Blanked the page
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19:34:02 <wob_jonas> `ping are you back, HackEgo?
19:34:03 <HackEgo> pong
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20:20:52 <wob_jonas> I bought a ceiling lamp for the bathroom. In the side of the box, where the address of the distributing company is displayed, the town name "Dunaújváros" is hyphenated incorrectly, as "Dun-aújváros". Do you suppose there's a bug tracker where I can open an issue for that?
20:21:09 <wob_jonas> They offer five years of warranty, so they should fix that if I complain, right?
20:23:27 <wob_jonas> The box does give a webpage, let me look there.
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20:26:16 <wob_jonas> Found a product page: http://www.eglo.com/hungary/TERMEKEK/Main-Collections/Belteri-lampak/FUEVA-1/96168
20:26:49 <wob_jonas> I don't see a public bug tracker though.
20:36:03 <\oren\> lol https://imgur.com/1hkSZNS
20:37:42 <APic> ☺
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22:08:49 <wob_jonas> Wait what? Abstruse Goose has done updates. I'm quite sure http://abstrusegoose.com/575 was the last strip for ages, possibly for multiple years, but now there are two after that
22:08:58 <wob_jonas> s/two/four/
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23:14:49 <boily> `5 w
23:14:54 <HackEgo> 1/2:case//English has two cases, upper and lower. Upper case agrees with the verb in person and number. \ wisdome//The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere". \ amortized//An
23:14:54 <boily> `n
23:14:55 <HackEgo> 2/2: amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember. \ aah//ambiguous acronym here \ hice//Hice is the plural form of house.
23:17:14 <FireFly> `w
23:17:16 <HackEgo> ​synergy//Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity.
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2018-02-17:

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01:24:42 <shachaf> `4 w
01:24:50 <HackEgo> 1/1:hth//hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. \ dingas//The sound of a Baltic bell. It chimes like potatoes. \ twh//twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. \ cocoon//Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse.
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02:06:45 <boily> `dowg cocoon
02:06:54 <HackEgo> 9026:2016-09-09 <fizzïe> learn Cocoon was built by the fal\'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse.
02:07:05 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. eh?
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02:21:14 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
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02:42:42 <oerjan> bod aftenily.
02:43:22 <shachaf> what are you doing
02:43:28 <shachaf> #esoteric is a portmanteau-free zone
02:43:39 <boily> helloochaf. since when?
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09:01:25 <zzo38> Have you examined my ZPXDB program yet?
09:12:45 <Vorpal> hi
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13:32:53 <Soni> has anyone implemented brainfuck in pure forth?
13:33:25 <Soni> (where the brainfuck commands need to be space-separated)
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14:39:47 <esowiki> [[Haddock]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54146&oldid=54100 * Singingbanana * (+75) 
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17:24:46 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54147&oldid=54112 * Singingbanana * (+19) 
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19:49:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Alcofrisbas *  New user account
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2018-02-18:

00:00:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:13:43 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
00:16:02 <int-e> `"
00:16:03 <HackEgo> 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 144) <fungot> ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic
00:16:38 <int-e> dang, 144 made me laugh
00:20:46 <oerjan> bood evenily.
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00:26:11 <FireFly> ´"
00:26:13 <FireFly> er
00:26:15 <FireFly> `"
00:26:16 <HackEgo> 837) <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); \ 1138) <Taneb> Well, get him  <Phantom_Hoover> her!  <Taneb> Well, get her  <Taneb> Hang on  <Taneb> Since when is Liam Neeson a "her"/  <Phantom_Hoover> oh i thought you meant my dad's godmother
00:26:27 <FireFly> `'
00:26:27 <HackEgo> 460) <Phantom_Hoover> On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether.  <Phantom_Hoover> This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn.
00:26:30 <FireFly> cute
00:29:31 <boily> `’
00:29:31 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ’: not found
00:33:39 <fizzie> fungot: Is your mouth a good heuristic? 
00:33:39 <fungot> fizzie: i've seen it
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00:43:09 <boily> fungot, the Heuristical Holistic Sentient Fungot.
00:43:10 <fungot> boily: yes i believe in your letrec example, a third is very close to normal scheme. maybe i'm missing a way to cast a lot of programming concepts which are not
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02:25:33 <moony> fungot's mouth is a good PRNG seed
02:25:34 <fungot> moony: are therer any good scheme should be " rube on conveyor belts
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08:25:52 <wob_jonas> monocular o => https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/process
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13:37:02 <boily> `5 w
13:37:10 <HackEgo> 1/2:amortized//An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember. \ wob_jonas//wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks. \ functor//Functors are morphisms in the category of small categories. \ twitter//Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). \ shamtag//A shamtag is something that you durch in ord
13:37:12 <boily> `n
13:37:12 <HackEgo> 2/2:er to make it flome.
14:24:13 <int-e> `dowg shamtag
14:24:21 <HackEgo> 8211:2016-05-30 <tsweẗt> learn A shamtag is something that you durch in order to make it flome.
14:27:36 <int-e> Well, I /guess/ tswett was training a letter based language model for english.
14:30:59 <int-e> Ah, confirmed. It was a neural network. http://esolangs.org/logs/2016-05-29.txt has a discussion in the morning.
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15:47:06 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, that was nice. I also trained a letter-based statistical model (no neural net) once, on Hungarian text, and quoted in this channel a few lines it output at some point.
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17:00:00 <int-e> . o O ( fingernails evolved so that people won't cut their fingers all the time )
17:01:56 <wob_jonas> int-e: no way. there haven't been enough time since we've been washing sharp steel knives hidden by soap bubbles in a kitchen sink for that to matter for evolution.
17:03:31 <int-e> wob_jonas: there's no way to be sure!
17:04:02 <int-e> (alternatively, then this is proof for Intelligent Design)
17:04:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: there sure is. metal items like kitchen sinks and knife blades would be preserved well enough that we'd find archaeological evidence
17:04:33 <wob_jonas> If such things existed for more than twelve thousand years, we'd know about it.
17:06:08 <wob_jonas> You could argue that the fingernails have some role in stopping papercuts, and that people have had paper for much longer than we know, but all the old paper have decomposed and eaten by fungi.
17:06:49 <int-e> wob_jonas: You know, the "the world was created 4000 years ago" world view is quite consistent.
17:07:22 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, we do have archaeological evidence that civilization is more than 4000 years old
17:07:47 <wob_jonas> but not more than 12000 years old, give or take a few thousand years, and depending on how exactly you define civilization
17:08:18 <wob_jonas> Unless you believe the legends of an old magical civilization erasing its existance from the very time stream in a huge magical accident of course.
17:08:36 <int-e> The only thing that is stopping me from actually believing it is that I don't think that anybody would actually go through all the trouble of painstakingly faking all this evidence.
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17:51:07 <int-e> Ah so it's not just me who wonders how people actually train their (deep) neural networks. Even the experts don't know: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/missing-data-hinder-replication-artificial-intelligence-studies
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18:08:59 <int-e> Yay, I now have actual undecidability (and recursive inseparability) results for Minsky machines formalized in Isabelle :)
18:09:19 <APic> yay
18:09:43 <wob_jonas> int-e: oh, I think you had mentioned you were working on it
18:09:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: how did you prove that they're undecidable?
18:10:12 <wob_jonas> did you write a self-interprter?
18:10:34 <wob_jonas> or an interpreter of an, um, simpler undecidable language?
18:10:47 <APic> =6.9=
18:10:51 <APic> *purrrrrr*  😸
18:11:06 <APic> Both Spirals lead to epic Success, probably.    ☺
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18:19:19 <int-e> wob_jonas: I didn't have to write any interpreter myself. I basically showed that every r.e. set is recognized by a Minsky machine; I'm building on top of a formalization that has a universal function for r.e. sets.  http://downthetypehole.de/paste/jCpbJsVP  has some hilights (incomplete and no proofs)
18:19:29 <APic> yay
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18:20:45 <wob_jonas> int-e: I see. so it's the latter, you write an interpreter for some other language, the one used to define recursive enumarable sets in that formalization?
18:21:25 <APic> Hi sleffy 
18:21:31 <int-e> wob_jonas: Of course there is an interpreter in there, namely a Minsky machine that recognizes (some preimage of) that universal r.e. set. But I have no clue what it looks like, it's not a constructive proof.
18:22:36 <int-e> (it's also clear how to make this constructive *in* principle, but Isabelle/HOL is a classical logic)
18:22:36 <wob_jonas> int-e: oh wait, you're right, it needn't be an interpreter written in Minsky, but only a compiler from the other language to Minsky, the compiler itself implemented in Isabelle
18:23:29 <sleffy> APic, hello!
18:23:34 <APic> Me-ow!
18:23:44 <sleffy> Hel-lo!
18:24:14 <APic> Yoooooo-hooo!
18:24:15 <wob_jonas> hello
18:25:58 <int-e> wob_jonas: so what I'm saying is that this "compiler" from the other language (r.e. sets) to Minksy doesn't actually have to be constructive.
18:26:13 <wob_jonas> int-e: ok
18:26:19 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure what "constructive" means there
18:26:37 <wob_jonas> or more like have a hard time imagining a non-constructive implementation
18:26:50 <APic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnTINa7818c
18:26:56 <int-e> no choice, no law of excluded middle.
18:27:12 <wob_jonas> hmm
18:27:12 <int-e> wob_jonas: Well I have a ton of lemmas stating "there exists a Minsky machine M such that..."
18:30:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: ok, now I'm thinking of the ending of the Smullyan mockingbird book, musing about whether there's a bird that can solve the halting problem
18:30:43 <int-e> wob_jonas: and while if you looked at the proofs you'd find that they're all constructive, there is no direct way of getting at a compilation function.
18:31:39 <wob_jonas> int-e: is there an evaluator function, one that can also recognize invalid programs, for the original language?
18:32:43 <int-e> yes. there's a nat_to_ce_set :: nat => nat set. (I suppose invalid programs become the empty set? I haven't checked.)
18:33:00 <int-e> ("ce" = computably enumerable = recursively enumerable)
18:33:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: ok
18:35:30 <int-e> (Recursive inseparability is a 1953 innovation that I learned about two years ago... I really wonder why it isn't taught in every computability theory course.)
18:36:29 <APic> Probably because Morse-Code is not taught in Schools.
18:36:32 <APic> ;=P
18:37:20 <wob_jonas> what
18:37:37 <int-e> Prime example: (assuming consistency) The set of provable formulas and the set of disprovable formulas in Peano Arithmetic are recursively inseparable: there is no decidable set that contains all the provable formulas and none of the disprovable ones. The beauty is that this doesn't say anything about the formulas that are neither provable or disprovable...
18:37:43 <wob_jonas> fungot, can you solve the halting problem?
18:37:43 <fungot> wob_jonas: well, when you define cond, that is.))
18:38:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, I think I heard that theorem
18:39:31 <int-e> A more useful example are Turing Machines that can accept or reject, or run forever; the set of TM configurations that halt in an accept stated, and the set of TM configurations that halt in a reject state, are recursively inseparable.
18:39:47 <int-e> s/stated/state/
18:40:03 <APic> 😸
18:40:33 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, that's more or less equivalent
18:42:34 <int-e> A less obvious example are PCP problems that have a finite solution, and PCP problems that have no infinite solution. (For example, (1,11) has the infinite solution (1*,1*) arising from appending (1,11) to itself over and over again)
18:45:16 <wob_jonas> Hmm.
18:47:49 <APic> Yes?
18:48:01 <APic> Good old Infinity.    ☺
18:48:45 <int-e> Incidentally, that is what I really want to have...
18:49:16 <APic> ,o0(Toeoeoe-roeoeoeoe)
18:49:35 <int-e> And Minsky machines are my intermediate model of computation.
18:49:35 <APic> All those Coincidents...
18:49:40 <APic> Good old Marv
18:49:44 <int-e> `coins
18:49:48 <HackEgo> ​poridgecoin s17057034167130coin landcoin contumcoin ointecoin audacoin idecoin ]coin gruptorcoin xxvcoin jumpcoin deltapecoin hevnarylangtheonchurchwaynomialcoin xivcoin spielcoin whittlecoin akcrcoin angcoin atheteembertyscraftermdcoin itfcoin
18:50:34 <APic> lol
18:50:50 <int-e> APic: you spoke of coin-cidents?
18:50:58 <APic> Dunno
18:51:19 <int-e> `coins
18:51:20 <HackEgo> ​wikipwritoncoin gubacoin nhiucoin obfecoin aheuiculus'scoin obftecoin minlinksencoin bolcoin chologifruincoin parcoin archwaycoin brocarmcoin musicontroncoin madncoin eningcoin persetcoin autcoin surangcoin unbocoin turingcoin
18:51:28 <APic> yay
18:51:35 <int-e> I think those are better.
18:51:49 <APic> Seems so.
18:51:55 <wob_jonas> turingcoin, archwaycoin
18:52:06 <APic> B-)
18:52:16 <int-e> `words
18:52:18 <HackEgo> keili
18:56:41 <APic> Kewl
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21:03:06 <zzo38> So far I have programs reading three vector formats: Fuun RNA, Janome Embroidery Format, and DRAWX vector format. I did not write the program that can convert a raster picture into such format, because I do not know much about cross-stitch (or about embroidery in general) to do so. Do you know?
21:07:57 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't, but I think some teams have effectively developped a raster image to Fuun DNA compiler to solve the contest.
21:08:32 <wob_jonas> It's tricky because it's a deliberately esoteric vector format.
21:09:52 <zzo38> Yes, although in that case you don't need any stitches, at least. Still, it is perhaps something to be seen; I have not seen such a thing
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22:26:46 <zzo38> Do you like the GLOGG container format I made up? It is similar to Ogg format, although the header is normally only 22 bytes long (but can vary), and there is a few other functions included (all optional, though), and it uses a different mechanism to identify codecs (they are identified by a UUID, given as part of the control data, although the control data is optional anyways). Converting Ogg->GLOGG should not be difficult; any existing file shou
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22:33:13 <zzo38> So, any codec suitable for Ogg will be suitable with this new format too, although it will help to define the UUID for each such codec.
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22:50:11 <int-e> zzo38: how many of your file format extensions have, you know, become standards?
22:52:15 <shachaf> i,i how may of your oil companies have, you know, become Standard?
22:56:34 <zzo38> int-e: None as far as I know. I don't know about future, though; things in future is difficult to predict.
22:56:59 <shachaf> That's why I predict things in the past.
23:01:31 <zzo38> Did you read the document? (I have recently added a "primary bit" to the control flags. Like the rest of the control data, it is optional.)
23:02:21 <int-e> . o O ( of course not? )
23:03:43 <zzo38> The document is:  http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/glogg
23:03:59 <zzo38> Afterward, I can make up another file with the description of the caption codec.
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23:05:42 <zzo38> Now you can mention your complaint about anything I may have made a mistake, or other kind of complaints or questions.
23:07:35 <shachaf> int-e does not like this
23:09:15 <int-e> I've skimmed the document. The only motivation I see is that a person naming themselves zzo38 "don't like the way [OGG] uses to determine codecs."... presumably GLOGG improves on this.
23:09:40 <int-e> My bet is that nobody will care. For now I can give one example.
23:10:06 <int-e> (Sorry, I mean nobody besides the author, I'll give zzo38 that much credit.)
23:13:16 <zzo38> O, OK. 
23:15:54 <zzo38> However, it does do some other stuff too; it does not only provide an alternative way to determine codecs. You can also specify relation of streams, and index marks, and a few of the things from Ogg Skeleton (although some are omitted because they should properly belong in separate metadata streams).
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23:18:59 <int-e> zzo38: I think that you should present the problems you're perceiving with the state of the art (say, the Ogg format) up front. It takes time to try to reverse engineer the problem from the solution (which tends to also require understanding the original), and I for one am not willing to invest that time in order to figure out whether I even care about the problem at all. OTOH, if you manage to...
23:19:05 <int-e> ...convince me that there *is* a problem worth solving, then I'd be much happier to try to understand the proposed solution.
23:19:40 <zzo38> OK
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23:22:10 <zzo38> One problem is that they fail to specify how multiple streams are related to each other. Sometimes this isn't important, but sometimes it will be relevant. That's why it is an optional feature.
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23:25:16 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54148&oldid=54143 * Alcofrisbas * (+216) /* Introductions */
23:26:07 <int-e> shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P
23:26:25 <shachaf> Higher than your usual?
23:26:35 <int-e> who cares?
23:26:52 <shachaf> `? int-e
23:26:53 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
23:29:00 <int-e> hmm hipster game, was that Braid or the Witless?
23:29:29 <int-e> I guess I don't care about that either.
23:29:52 <shachaf> That sentence doesn't look very Swedish...
23:30:02 <shachaf> `dowg int-e
23:30:10 <HackEgo> 10861:2017-05-03 <shachäf> le//rn_append int-e//Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. \ 10125:2017-01-12 <oerjän> slwd int-e//s;.$;, men han gillar dissonans.; \ 9127:2016-09-30 <oerjän> learn_append int-e Hen gillar inte f\xc3\xa4rger. \ 7535:2016-04-25 <oerjän> learn_append int-e Hen st\xc3\xa5r f\xc3\xb6r sig sj\xc3\xa4lv. \ 7232:2016-03-14 
23:30:19 <shachaf> ?!
23:30:44 <shachaf> It was SSR.
23:30:48 <int-e> Oh.
23:31:00 <shachaf> 10:22:36 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png <-- oh nein, ich habe schon wieder ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. (aber nicht zum Vollpreis, gibt grad ein humble bundle)
23:31:19 <int-e> but note the "schon wieder"
23:31:44 <int-e> ("yet again", I guess)
23:32:52 <shachaf> Did you kauft any Hipster-Spielen since then?
23:34:21 <zzo38> Multimedia container formats other than Ogg do exist, but most of them are too complicated it look like.
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23:42:34 <int-e> shachaf: Well tbqh I don't even know what a "hipster game" is... I've seen the label in a couple of game reviews. I think I had found some top-ten of hipster games somewhere just before I wrote that...
23:43:29 <int-e> To me it sounds like "is being recommended on linkedin" ;-)
23:44:21 <int-e> Regardless, bedtime.
23:46:22 <zzo38> Now I added a few other functions too, such as reverse relations (useful for captions), and passthrough mode (useful for playing back stereovision videos on non-stereovision implementations without causing additional problems), although these are not the only uses of these functions; they may be used for whatever you find them useful for.
23:47:57 <int-e> shachaf: But if you want to know about games I regretted buying recently, I'd name "What remains of Edith Finch" and "Oxenfree".
23:48:14 <shachaf> Wwhy did you regret buying them?
23:48:35 <shachaf> Maybe you would like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFlG7KN6OqY
23:50:42 <int-e> Both are essentially linear (the former more so than the latter)... the latter is ultimately about relationships among a bunch of teenagers, otherwise it's just running around finding various spots on a map.
23:51:23 <int-e> Did I say bedtime? I think I said bedtime. It is bedtime. Good night.

2018-02-19:

00:00:46 <zzo38> Do some of the Ogg and other codecs already have a UUID defined for them?
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02:06:17 <oerjan> `addquote <shachaf> int-e does not like this [...] <int-e> shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P  <shachaf> Higher than your usual?  <int-e> who cares?
02:06:20 <HackEgo> 1320) <shachaf> int-e does not like this [...] <int-e> shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P  <shachaf> Higher than your usual?  <int-e> who cares?
02:07:06 <shachaf> hi oerjan
02:07:31 <shachaf> How would you define a higher-dimesional polynomial (defined over vectors)?
02:20:38 <shachaf> OK, I'll say that an n-polynomial is a function f such that either f(x) = 0, or f(x) = A + g(x)(x)
02:20:57 <shachaf> Where A is an n-tensor and g is an n+1 polynomial
02:21:15 <shachaf> Do you like this?
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02:22:31 <shachaf> A 0-tensor is some vector space; an n+1 tensor is a linear map from V to an n-tensor
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02:25:35 <shachaf> (V is the domain of f.)
02:25:48 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54149 * Alcofrisbas * (+3938) Created page with "==Introduction== '''backpackr''' is a stack-based themed language that uses a two-dimensional plane of stacks to store information. The backpacker is a pointer with a bag (an..."
02:26:47 <esowiki> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54150&oldid=54139 * Alcofrisbas * (+15) /* B */
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02:32:19 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54151&oldid=54149 * Alcofrisbas * (+385) 
02:33:23 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54152&oldid=54151 * Alcofrisbas * (+3) /* Turing Completeness */
02:34:01 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54153&oldid=54152 * Alcofrisbas * (-16) /* Turing Completeness */
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02:42:55 <oerjan> hichaf. i'd maybe define it in such a way that each coordinate of the result was a polynomial in the input coordinates?
02:43:22 <oerjan> which i doubt is the same thing you said.
02:44:05 <oerjan> s/input/argument/
02:44:17 <oerjan> (too much PPCG)
02:46:46 * oerjan pokes Warrigal 
02:47:10 <oerjan> that's some idling
02:47:40 <oerjan> anyway, i wrote a /// answer to a particularly appropriate PPCG challenge https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/156081/
02:48:05 <oerjan> Warrigal: ^
02:48:23 <oerjan> (just in case he has some strict pinging rules)
02:49:35 <shachaf> oerjan: Why is it not the thing I said?
02:50:10 <shachaf> What I said should be equivalent to saying f(x) = A + B(x) + C(x,x) + D(x,x,x) + ...
02:50:18 <shachaf> Where A,B,C,D are multilinear.
02:51:42 <shachaf> So C is a quadratic form and so on. Doesn't that work out to the same thing?
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02:55:35 <shachaf> Anyway I want to talk about derivatives of these things, ideally in a coordinate-free way.
02:57:02 <esowiki> [[AlphaBeta]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54154&oldid=39860 * Oerjan * (+83) /* External resources */ Corrected interpreter
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03:02:22 <oerjan> shachaf: ok maybe it does.
03:03:55 <oerjan> anyway, surely someone has done this but i don't know anything about it.
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03:04:27 <oerjan> clog is really unstable these days
03:04:37 * oerjan pats esowiki 
03:05:35 <shachaf> Anyway the point is what kinds of derivatives do you get when you do this?
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03:51:31 <shachaf> oerjan: should i require the tensors to be symmetric twh
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03:58:20 <oerjan> i doubt that's equivalent, again, hth
04:08:13 <shachaf> Well, take a rank-2 polynomial : R^2 -> R
04:10:45 <shachaf> The general form would be a + bx + cy + dx^2 + exy + fy^2, right?
04:12:00 <shachaf> But a quadratic form would give you a function like f((x0,x1),(y0,y1)) = a x0 y0 + b x0 y1 + c x1 y0 + d x1 y1
04:36:25 <oerjan> oh hm
04:36:55 <oerjan> OKAY
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05:11:28 <shachaf> oerjan: am i making any sense etwh
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05:45:29 <Hooloovo0> !w etwh
05:46:16 <Hooloovo0> `w etwh
05:46:17 <HackEgo> That's not wise.
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06:18:02 <oerjan> estimated to waste hours hth
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09:31:31 <zzo38> Now I made up a new implementation of X resource maanger in C. (There are at least two other implementations in C, which are Xlib and xcb-util. There is also my implementation of X resource manager in JavaScript.) (Unlike the other implementations in C, this new one has only two files, the .c file and the .h file. Documentation is in the .h file. Also, it is public domain.)
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12:10:25 <boily> `5 w
12:10:31 <HackEgo> 1/2:supermarioperator//supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. \ sftm//SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail. \ curry's paradox//If this sentence is true, then Taneb invented Curry's paradox. \ russia//Russia is a country so huge it manages to be so ne
12:10:31 <boily> `n
12:10:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:ar to both Finland and Japan. It used to be part of the Soviet Union before Ronald Reagan destroyed it. \ pspace//PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
12:10:49 <wob_jonas> `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
12:10:51 <HackEgo> A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
12:11:25 <wob_jonas> herbal?
12:11:45 <boily> herbal.
12:11:51 <boily> `dowg russia
12:11:59 <HackEgo> 6890:2016-02-16 <oerjän> learn Russia is a country so huge it manages to be so near to both Finland and Japan. It used to be part of the Soviet Union before Ronald Reagan destroyed it. \ 6889:2016-02-16 <oerjän> learn Russia is a country so huge it manages to be near to both Finland and Japan. It used to be part of the Soviet Union before Ronal
12:12:15 <boily> `dows pspace
12:12:15 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dows: not found
12:12:19 <boily> `dowg pspace
12:12:28 <HackEgo> 9284:2016-10-14 <alercäh> learn PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
12:12:35 <boily> alercah: hellorcah. herbal?
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13:27:58 <moony> `?
13:27:59 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:28:41 <moony> `n
13:28:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:supermarioperator//supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. \ sftm//SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail. \ curry's paradox//If this sentence is true, then Taneb invented Curry's paradox. \ russia//Russia is a country so huge it manages to be so ne
13:29:32 <moony> `n
13:29:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:ar to both Finland and Japan. It used to be part of the Soviet Union before Ronald Reagan destroyed it. \ pspace//PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
13:29:50 <moony> Isn't Herbal Reduction an alchemy thing?
13:30:18 <wob_jonas> hmm, let me look that up, there was a list of ten magic keywords they use
13:32:22 <wob_jonas> The classical set of twelve alchemical processes are: calcination, congelation, fixation, dissolution, digestion, distillation, sublimation, separation, incineration, fermentation, multiplication, projection.
13:33:13 <wob_jonas> There are other lists, always of twelve processes, just like how we have multiple lists of the twelve Olympian gods (the ones who eat dinner at a table of twelve) etc
13:33:51 <wob_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_opus_(alchemy) gives two other lists, although distractingly one of them actually has 14
13:34:27 <wob_jonas> The infobox lists 13, but it's not necessarily a matching set, but a list of the ones that en.wikipedia has articles of
13:34:41 <wob_jonas> anyway
13:34:50 <wob_jonas> moony: no, I don't think Herbal Reduction is an alchemy thing
13:35:14 <moony> hum
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22:02:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54155&oldid=53581 * LyricLy * (+355) Add Discord server
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2018-02-20:

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01:53:41 <shachaf> Cale: What's your opinion on the higher-dimensional polynomial thing?
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02:00:06 <Cale> What thing?
02:01:11 <shachaf> Hmm, any thing. How would you define these things?
02:02:22 <shachaf> You can say, for instance, that a polynomial is something of the form f(x) = A + B(x) + C(x,x) + D(x,x,x) etc.
02:02:31 <shachaf> Where A,B,C,D are multilinear.
02:08:43 <Cale> Of course you know you can define a polynomial ring in terms of an arbitrary other ring
02:09:24 <Cale> But your generalisation goes a bit farther than that I suppose
02:09:28 <shachaf> Does that work here?
02:09:42 <Cale> I... don't know what we're trying to do really :)
02:09:58 <shachaf> Fair enough.
02:10:07 <Cale> But the usual way to define polynomials in multiple indeterminates is just to iterate the polynomial ring construction
02:10:16 <Cale> Doesn't quite work for infinitely many
02:10:47 <shachaf> Even in finite-dimensional vector spaces I'd like some sort of answer.
02:11:06 <shachaf> Anyway, let's see. I was trying to figure out what the inverse of the Hessian matrix is.
02:11:19 <shachaf> Since people represent it as a matrix, but it "really" ought to be a quadratic form, right?
02:12:22 <shachaf> So say you have a generalized quadratic thing : R^n -> R
02:12:37 <shachaf> It'll be of the form f(x) = A + B(x) + C(x,x), right?
02:13:11 <Cale> yeah, it really makes more sense as something that eats a couple of vectors
02:13:29 <shachaf> Should I require C to be symmetric here?
02:14:03 <shachaf> If you have a quadratic form like g(x,y) = ax^2 + bxy + cx^2, that seems to correspond to a symmetric tensor (/matrix).
02:15:08 <shachaf> Anyway, either way, the derivative of f if f'(x)(dx) = B(dx) + C(dx,x) + C(x,dx). Right?
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02:16:24 <Cale> Sounds plausible
02:16:39 <shachaf> (If C is symmeetric then it's just f'(x)(dx) = B(dx) + 2C(x,dx), of course.)
02:17:05 <shachaf> dx here is a whole vector, not a basis covector or anything like that.
02:17:19 <Cale> right
02:17:28 <shachaf> Anyway this is just like the "one-hole context" thing for type derivatives.
02:17:56 <Cale> yeah
02:18:06 <shachaf> The derivative of a multilinear form is the linear map you get when you substitute one linear parameter in at each possible spot.
02:18:31 <shachaf> That seems pretty nice.
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02:20:00 <shachaf> Can you *define* derivatives this way somehow, as "varying one occurrence of x linearly"? Presumably it at least works for polynomials and power series, assuming I know what those are.
02:20:34 <shachaf> So I was tryinng to figure out how they work.
02:23:15 <shachaf> Anyway, back to the derivative of the Hessian, is there a general notion of the derivative of a tensor? I think there should be, at least in some cases.
02:24:55 <shachaf> f''(x)(dx)(dy) = C(dx,dy) + C(dy,dx) is a (0,2) tensor at each point. But you can probably represent it as a linear map : V -o (V -o F) and say that its inverse is a linear map : (V -o F) -o V. Which is a (2,0) tensor?
02:31:34 <Cale> So yeah, exactly, the space of linear maps is just another vector space, so it's totally possible to talk about derivatives of functions whose codomain is that
02:31:52 <shachaf> And of course you can talk about the (2,0) tensor which numerically has the same values as the inverse of the Hessian, and when contracted with the second derivative you get the (1,1) identity tensor : V -o V
02:32:45 <Cale> The derivative of a map V -> W is going to be a function V -> (V -o W), giving the best linear approximation to the original function at each point in V
02:33:00 <Cale> and then that (V -o W) can be your W
02:33:24 <shachaf> Right, so you get f'' : V -> (V -o (V -o W)), or f'' : V -> (V⊗V -o W)
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02:33:32 <shachaf> I know that much.
02:33:35 <Cale> right
02:38:47 <Cale> There's a really cute thing I found you can do at one point...
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02:40:08 <Cale> (Just trying to remember it clearly enough to explain it properly... I also have some mathematica code... somewhere)
02:41:12 <Cale> But basically, you can take a curve (or generally one of these polynomial surfaces), and find the best lower degree approximation to it at any point
02:41:59 <Cale> which specialises to the tangent line in the case of finding a linear approximation (or the polar line in the case of conic sections and a point not on the curve)
02:45:00 <shachaf> How does that work? Is it something other than the truncated Taylor series?
02:45:22 <Cale> It's more like plain application :D
02:45:57 <Cale> You construct a symmetric tensor which results in the polynomial when applied repeatedly to the same vector
02:46:32 <shachaf> Do you have an example?
02:46:51 <Cale> yeah... actually, do you have/use mathematica?
02:47:08 <shachaf> No.
02:47:24 <Cale> I have a mathematica notebook which I might have to take a moment to decipher to remember what it was that I was actually doing
02:47:51 <Cale> (this was over a decade ago now)
02:48:44 <Cale> But actually, let's start with some context, because this is fun
02:50:50 <Cale> Are you familiar with projective coordinates?
02:52:09 <shachaf> Not very.
02:53:20 <Cale> Okay, so here's the basic idea (I'm just going to talk about plane geometry because everything's kinda nice and easy there to start out)
02:54:17 <Cale> The projective plane has as its points the lines through the origin in R^3
02:54:32 <Cale> and as its lines, the planes through the origin
02:55:04 <Cale> We'll use the coordinates of any nonzero point on such a line through the origin as coordinates for the point in the projective plane
02:55:37 <Cale> and we can think of the ordinary Euclidean R^2 as belonging to the projective plane by considering points with coordinates of the form (x,y,1)
02:56:44 <Cale> (i.e. lines through the origin which aren't parallel to z = 0)
02:59:14 <shachaf> OK...
02:59:52 <Cale> So, let's think about the equation for a line: in Euclidean geometry, i.e. where z = 1, it's just a x + b y - c = 0. 
03:00:09 <Cale> or even a x + b y + c = 0, let's not mess around with signs
03:00:54 <Cale> Now what we'll do is make this a polynomial which is homogeneously of degree 1 (i.e. every term has the same degree of 1) in x, y, z, by adding z's
03:01:12 <Cale> a x + b y + c z = 0
03:01:39 <Cale> which we could write as <(a,b,c), (x,y,z)> = 0
03:01:58 <Cale> and this jives with what we said a projective line should be
03:02:22 <Cale> a plane through the origin consists of all the vectors (x,y,z) whose inner product with some (a,b,c) is 0
03:03:32 <Cale> We'll take the [a,b,c] (with square brackets because I'll usually write it as a row vector rather than a column) to be the coordinates of the line
03:03:49 <Cale> and so it's easy to check if a point lies on our line, just take the dot product
03:04:11 <Cale> Now, suppose we want to take two points with their projective coordinates and find the line through them
03:04:52 <Cale> e.g. say our points are (x,y,z) and (x',y',z')
03:05:15 <Cale> we want to find [a,b,c] such that [a,b,c](x,y,z) = 0 and [a,b,c](x',y',z') = 0
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03:05:31 <Cale> and of course, this is well known, it's the cross product :)
03:06:06 <Cale> similarly, if we have two lines and want their intersection, it's the same thing, cross product again (but everything is transposed)
03:06:36 <Cale> okay, so that's phase 1
03:06:38 <shachaf> This sounds believable though I should probably work through the detail.
03:06:45 <Cale> Now conic sections...
03:07:53 <Cale> It turns out that you can represent conic sections really nicely
03:09:15 <Cale> Given a symmetric matrix A, a conic section is just the set of points x for which x^t A x = 0
03:09:33 <Cale> i.e. given a symmetric bilinear form B, it's just B(x,x) = 0
03:09:46 <Cale> and the determinant tells you if the conic section is degenerate
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03:11:19 <Cale> Given a conic section with matrix A, we can do the following cute thing: we can map points to lines by (x,y,z) |--> [x,y,z] A
03:11:42 <Cale> and we can map lines to points by [a,b,c] |--> A^-1 (a,b,c)
03:12:11 <Cale> It turns out that this computes what's known as the pole and polar
03:12:16 <Cale> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_and_polar
03:14:08 <Cale> and, really, the important thing is that if the point happens to lie on the conic, then the line you get is the tangent line
03:14:39 <Cale> of course, you sort of already mentioned this in a different way :)
03:15:18 <shachaf> You mean that the derivative of x |-> C(x,x) is x |-> (dx |-> 2C(x,dx))?
03:15:27 <Cale> Or something that leads to that -- differentiating a symmetric bilinear map looks kind of like partially applying it
03:15:30 <Cale> yeah
03:15:56 <shachaf> Or equivalently the derivative of f(x) = x^T C x is f(x)(y) = x^T (C + C^T) y
03:16:02 <shachaf> Or 2C if C is symmetric.
03:16:10 <Cale> especially so when you're then looking at zeroes of these things and so the 2 goes away
03:16:47 <Cale> So I was thinking about how to maybe do all this again, but with more interesting polynomials
03:16:58 <Cale> Not just conic sections
03:17:24 <Cale> and it turns out that all this geometry of conic sections really does generalise
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03:19:12 <Cale> So, what we want to do is to take our arbitrary polynomial, say something like x^4 + x^3 y - x^2 y^2 + y^4 - 1
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03:19:51 <shachaf> By the way, I was reading a paper that talked about eigenvectors and an eigenbasis of a symmetric positive definite matrix representing a quadratic form. I suppose there's some eqeuivalent notion for quadratic forms represented with the "proper" variance?
03:20:44 <Cale> and then we homogenize that with z to get... well, I picked a kind of boring one, we just get x^4 + x^3 y - x^2 y^2 + y^4 - z^4 here... in general we'd multiply each term by a large enough power of z to make the total degree the same in each term
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03:21:22 <shachaf> Right.
03:22:43 <Cale> and then we need to construct a corresponding symmetric tensor by taking each term and basically splitting it up over all the ways of permuting the word
03:23:08 <Cale> dividing by the number of permutations
03:23:17 <Cale> and adding things up
03:23:18 <shachaf> This is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_tensor#Symmetric_part_of_a_tensor , right?
03:23:53 <Cale> Kind of, except we're building an appropriate tensor from our polynomial
03:24:38 <shachaf> Right.
03:24:49 <Cale> The goal is to get a symmetric multilinear form such that B(v,v,...,v) is our polynomial again
03:25:52 <Cale> and then what you can do is just start to apply that thing, and then go back the other way to get lower-degree things
03:26:17 <Cale> if you apply it n-1 times to a point that lies on the original curve, you get a tangent line, remarkably
03:26:47 <shachaf> Oh, this works because it's homogenized.
03:26:52 <Cale> yeah
03:27:13 <shachaf> The thing I was doing with "general" polynomials didn't work, or had to consider each term separately.
03:27:24 <Cale> and if you apply it n-2 times, you get a tangent... conic section
03:28:21 <Cale> I was just playing around with this in mathematica and making plots... really I should prove some things about it and write a paper or something, but lazy.
03:28:37 <Cale> Even too lazy to check if someone else did it properly ;)
03:28:57 <shachaf> This is like how you represent can affine maps as linear by adding one dimension.
03:29:04 <shachaf> can represent
03:29:24 <Cale> ah, yeah, that's related to this projective stuff
03:29:45 <Cale> (it is projective stuff)
03:29:49 <shachaf> But I'm kind of surprised that one extra dimension can work for any degree.
03:30:46 <shachaf> Actually I shouldn't be very surprised.
03:32:37 <shachaf> So these homogenized multilinear things are special in that by doing n applications you get the same thing as taking the nth derivative.
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11:02:02 <wob_jonas> Are you talking about conic sections in the projective 2-plane?
11:02:26 <wob_jonas> I learnt some interesting facts about them that are rarely taught.
11:02:45 <wob_jonas> Let me review your discussion
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11:13:41 <wob_jonas> ah yes. symmetric tensor. sounds so much fancier than a quadratic form.
11:17:12 <shachaf> "symmetric tensor" can have a higher degree than quadratic.
11:17:36 <wob_jonas> shachaf: yeah, though I think the context was a quadratic one
11:17:59 <shachaf> Also it might not be a form, I guess.
11:18:50 <int-e> Good to know. 'Britain will not be "plunged into a Mad Max-style world borrowed from dystopian fiction" after it leaves the EU, the Brexit secretary has said.'
11:18:56 <int-e> `"
11:18:57 <HackEgo> 1015) <Sgeo> Should I watch Watchmen or read Watchmen? [...] <NihilistDandy> Please, who *watches* The Watchmen? \ 104) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from.  <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there.
11:19:33 <wob_jonas> lol
11:19:46 <wob_jonas> 104 is nice
11:20:43 * int-e recently became aware of the fact that the kernel patches itself with various workarounds on bootup. Patching as in, actually replace fragments of code with something else... I thought they were only adjusting addresses.
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11:49:52 <boily> fungot: nostril.
11:49:52 <fungot> boily: compile it yourself? this isnt some kind of anonymous function, and just presented a big canvas on which to draw.
11:50:14 <boily> fungot: no, I won't compile any of your organs.
11:50:14 <fungot> boily: it's because i'm copying and pasting out of ' em.
11:50:26 <boily> fungot: just how many nostrils do you have?
11:50:29 <fungot> boily: w/ rt a screen shot no, not that
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12:22:29 <wob_jonas> `recipe
12:22:30 <HackEgo> over the batter. Place on a lightly floured board in \  a bowl. Add the remaining ingredients in boiling water to combine. \  Cover and bake until the roasted to the boil. Stir in the cream \  of the liquid and spread with peanut oil in a small bowl. Pour into \  serving plate. Then, for a baking sheet and allow to cool. \   \  Preheat oven to 350.
12:22:35 <wob_jonas> `starwars 8
12:22:36 <HackEgo> Moff Jerjerrod \ Captain Panaka \ Jyn Erso \ Jango Fett \ BB-9E \ Chirrut Îmwe \ Owen Lars \ Nute Gunray
12:23:06 <wob_jonas> hmm, what's that in centigrades?
12:23:10 <wob_jonas> `ftoc 350
12:23:10 <HackEgo> 350.00°F = 176.67°C
12:23:13 <wob_jonas> ok
12:25:24 <shachaf> onion's on 350
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12:25:35 <wob_jonas> whuh
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12:29:08 <shachaf> ask boily hth
12:30:15 <Taneb> boily sounds like someone who knows a lot about high temperatures
12:30:24 <Taneb> In particular their effects on liquids
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13:14:40 <fizzie> int-e: It's a low bar for what constitutes a successful brexit.
13:30:28 <Taneb> It's possible for brexit to be successful?
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13:51:51 <fizzie> Taneb: Apparently, avoiding the apocalypse is sufficient.
13:52:35 <Taneb> fizzie: on the other hand, fewer cool car chases
13:55:35 <izabera> are you in the uk?
13:55:41 <Taneb> Yeah
13:55:45 <izabera> where?
13:55:49 <Taneb> Currently, Cambridge
13:55:53 <izabera> me too
13:55:55 <Taneb> :O
13:56:02 <izabera> i moved here in november
13:56:19 <izabera> is anyone else in cambridge uk?
13:56:28 <izabera> we should have a #esoteric meeting
13:56:30 <Taneb> I presume there's more people in the city than just us two
13:56:34 <izabera> no
13:56:40 <izabera> that's unreasonable
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13:56:52 <Taneb> But in the intersection of the population of Cambridge and of #esoteric?
13:56:56 <Taneb> That's going to be smaller
13:57:17 <fizzie> One of my coworkers used to commute from Cambridge to London until not long ago, but now lives in London.
13:57:42 <izabera> Taneb: you're studying or working?
13:57:46 <Taneb> izabera: working
13:57:55 <izabera> at arm or microsoft?
13:57:58 <Taneb> No
13:58:02 <izabera> where?
13:58:03 <Taneb> Small company called Myrtle
13:58:36 <Taneb> We do neural networks to FPGAs via Haskell
13:58:50 <Taneb> How about you?
13:58:50 <wob_jonas> Taneb: oh, what are they for?
13:59:16 <Taneb> wob_jonas: the neural networks?
13:59:21 <izabera> i work in a company called undo and we do fancy debuggers
13:59:41 <wob_jonas> Taneb: the neural networks, yes
13:59:46 <wob_jonas> izabera: reverse debuggers?
13:59:49 <izabera> yes
14:00:13 <Taneb> wob_jonas: mostly automotive applications but we're expanding into other areas, I can't really talk about i tmuch
14:00:28 <wob_jonas> Taneb: I see
14:00:29 <fizzie> *beep* #CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION DETECTED
14:01:10 <izabera> what is this page  https://www.myrtlesoftware.com/no-access/
14:01:31 <Taneb> izabera: somewhat inaccessible
14:02:10 <Taneb> izabera: I'd be up for an #esoteric meetup
14:02:17 <izabera> yay :D
14:02:30 <Taneb> We might be able to convince fizzie to come up from London too
14:02:46 <wob_jonas> Do you use neural networks on time series data where you need some short-term persistent state?
14:03:08 <Taneb> That's a very specific question
14:03:25 <Taneb> Makes me think there's a reason for it other than curiosity
14:04:44 <wob_jonas> Taneb: yeah. I'm curious because some of the hard recognition stuff I did at my job had time series input, and that is one reason why it's so difficult
14:04:56 <Taneb> The answer is "not yet but soon"
14:04:58 <wob_jonas> you can never tell how much of the past input is significant
14:05:22 <wob_jonas> but automotive applications would probably also involve that
14:05:41 <Taneb> Everything's frustratingly early days yet
14:06:18 <wob_jonas> I don't really trust neural network, or most other kinds of machine learning, I'm prejudiced against them
14:06:38 <wob_jonas> I didn't enjoy when co-workers tried to use them
14:06:54 <wob_jonas> although admittedly they do sometimes work, there are really good proofs that they are applicable in some situations
14:09:57 <Taneb> They feel like suspicious magic and alchemy to me
14:10:31 <Taneb> Like, they work well enough that there's something going on, but there's no real science for when they work, what sort of architecture you need, etc
14:12:35 <wob_jonas> Taneb: the reason I don't like them is because I feel they're overused as one of those magical bullets, used in situations when some more domain-specific solution would be much better
14:12:48 <wob_jonas> same reason why I hate multi-threading, GPU computations, and JIT
14:13:50 <Taneb> eh, I feel at least multi-threading and GPU computations are a lot better understood than neural networks with regards to when they're applicable
14:16:45 <Taneb> Although whether they're sufficiently well-understood by the people who put them into practise is another matter
14:17:31 <izabera> jit is the same as regular compiling
14:18:21 <wob_jonas> Taneb: that's true
14:18:56 <wob_jonas> I understand enough when they should be used that I can recognized they're often used in vain
14:19:17 <wob_jonas> not that I'm immune to premature optimizations in other ways, mind you, not even close
14:19:27 <wob_jonas> I just use other silver bullets
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14:43:59 <int-e> `? procrastination
14:44:00 <HackEgo> The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube.
14:44:42 <int-e> `slwd procrastination//sblastbfinalb
14:44:44 <HackEgo> procrastination//The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this final funny cat clip on youtube.
14:45:41 <int-e> Taneb: I completely agree that neural networks are alchemy.
14:46:08 <Taneb> int-e: luckily for me, they're alchemy that some people are willing to pay a lot of money for
14:47:21 <int-e> (http://neuralnetworksanddeeplearning.com/chap5.html and chap5.html helped me demystify "deep learning" a bit)
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14:53:37 <int-e> There *is* progress. But the solution to two fundamental challenges here is boring. I) deeper layers in deep networks learn slowly (solution: throw more computing power at the problem, oh, and reduce the number of coefficients by duplicating neurons ("convolutional networks")), and II) they are prone to overfitting to a much higher degree than very badly (solution: regularize by a) penalizing...
14:53:43 <int-e> ...big coefficients and b) rerandomizing neurons in networks during training, and probably lots of other stuff, something that people have already done for shallow networks). Which explains why people see the real advances in recurrent networks and things like LSTM (a decaying memory whose appropriate decay can be trained by gradient descent) and other small innovations in network architecture.
14:54:40 <int-e>  to a much higher degree than single hidden layer networks...  sorry, my edit buffer was too short for this statement.
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17:18:47 <mroman> is there a free digital circuit simulator for windows?
17:19:12 <wob_jonas> um... probably?
17:19:34 <wob_jonas> I mean, there's got to be. That sounds like something someone would make if it doesn't exist yet.
17:20:24 <mroman> maybe
17:20:26 <mroman> but one that doesn't suck
17:20:33 <mroman> it's the suck part that not everybody can make
17:20:43 <wob_jonas> then probably no
17:20:51 <mroman> there's logisim
17:20:53 <mroman> but you know
17:20:58 <mroman> I wanna do large scale stuff
17:37:24 <\oren\> mroman: buy a fpga?
17:37:50 <wob_jonas> \oren\: those are harder to debug than a software simulation
17:38:01 <\oren\> i guess so
17:38:07 <mroman> lel
17:38:08 <wob_jonas> I mean, I'm prejudiced, I'm a software guy
17:38:12 <mroman> logisim confuses east with west
17:38:35 <wob_jonas> I believe the main advantage of hardware over software is that you can kick hardware when you're angry at it not working
17:39:19 <mroman> and north with south
17:39:24 <mroman> for some reason everything is flipped
17:39:24 <mroman> wth.
17:39:32 <\oren\> wob_jonas: a reliable way to disable a hard disk is to dd /dev/zero to it and then hit it deveral times
17:39:53 <\oren\> with the blunt end of a scewdriver
17:40:23 <mroman> ffpga would be cool.
17:41:33 <mroman> modelsim costs 1.5k or something
17:41:38 <mroman> too expensive.
17:43:15 <\oren\> the only hardware I've ever hit and had it work better than before is the screen on my old old laptop
17:44:03 <\oren\> which required taps to the bottom centre to keep it working
17:47:26 <mroman> industrial strength shredder will do the trick too
17:47:34 <mroman> wipe it, shred it
17:50:29 * int-e is so tempted to suggest the KONCTPYKTOP as a circuit simulator
17:51:48 <mroman> logisim doesn't even have toggle buttons as input
17:51:53 <mroman> now I gotta write my own toggle button 
17:52:43 <mroman> oh wait. pins are toggleable
17:52:44 <mroman> alright.
17:55:03 <int-e> mroman: the last four weeks had 4, 3, 80 and 4 accesses to the Burlesque shell.
17:56:54 <mroman> hm. but how do I combine 8 wires into one wire of width 8
17:57:01 <mroman> seems logisim can only do the splitting part
17:57:04 <mroman> not the combining part.
17:57:45 <int-e> use a logic or of wires?
18:04:06 <int-e> ah, stupid me.
18:05:09 <wob_jonas> mroman: use a splitter backwards?
18:05:40 <wob_jonas> reverse its polarity
18:07:01 <int-e> http://www.cburch.com/logisim/docs/2.7/en/html/guide/bundles/splitting.html suggests that this is possible indeed
18:08:42 <int-e> (in fact the second example mixes directions on a single wire, IIUIC)
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18:10:43 <mroman> oh
18:10:47 <mroman> so a splitter can be used for both?
18:11:57 <int-e> this channel would probably call it a splerger.
18:13:33 <esowiki> [[Numberwang/Implementations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54156&oldid=53777 * Unt * (+71) Infinite recursion crash countermeasures.
18:27:47 <mroman> alright.
18:27:52 <mroman> I guess I can do a BF CPU with this.
18:31:11 <mroman> I kinda like hardware stufff.
18:33:17 <wob_jonas> NOOOOO!
18:33:19 <wob_jonas> why BF?
18:33:25 <wob_jonas> seriously?
18:33:25 <wob_jonas> what's with BF?
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18:38:31 <mroman> https://i.imgur.com/OarOcTl.png
18:38:32 <mroman> :D
18:39:09 <mroman> It can count upwards a location in memory :D
18:58:00 <mroman> hm.
18:58:03 <mroman> but timing's a bitch.
19:04:31 <\oren\> stupid postgresql
19:04:47 <\oren\> why can't I transpose dimensions
19:06:36 <mroman> hu
19:06:53 <mroman> IN THE SUMMER TIME
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19:19:51 <\oren\> I have data in the form
19:20:16 <\oren\> name_of_foo, name_of_bar, 4.56
19:20:20 <\oren\> ...
19:20:39 <\oren\> and I want it to be a table with a column for each bar and a row for each foo
19:21:28 <wob_jonas> \oren\: because it would break the type safety of your data model :-)
19:23:59 * \oren\ wonders if postgres has an EVAL function he can pass a procedrually generated string to
19:33:25 <wob_jonas> to...
19:34:44 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54157&oldid=54145 * Plokmijnuhby * (+2233) 
19:35:33 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54158&oldid=54157 * Plokmijnuhby * (+17) 
19:35:45 <fizzie> I was planning to do a Befunge coprocessor for a computer hardware architecture course (which I think was about doing a MIPSy thing in VHDL, with a coprocessor as an extra-points objective), but I think I had to drop that course.
19:47:12 <wob_jonas> a what?
19:47:18 <wob_jonas> a befunge corpocessor?
19:47:34 <wob_jonas> I guess that might make slightly more sense than all that brainfuck thing
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20:21:46 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54159&oldid=54158 * Plokmijnuhby * (+270) 
20:26:56 <mroman> hcrh.pchr.rp.h
20:26:58 <mroman> how dare you
20:28:02 <mroman> I'll create a CPU for 2D shit!
20:33:37 <int-e> like game of life?
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20:40:19 <shachaf> I wish machine learning people would stop using the word "neuron" and all brain analogies.
20:40:25 <shachaf> They are so bad.
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21:14:38 <esowiki> [[Bitter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54160&oldid=54127 * DMC * (-23) /* Description */
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21:46:29 <shachaf> Cale: This homogeneous polynomial thing is pretty neat.
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22:26:51 <izabera> meow
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22:41:53 <shachaf> Cale: So can you represent power series this way too?
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23:30:31 <\oren\> holy shitballs
23:30:38 <\oren\> "Thanks, but in the future please just provide the information about how to reproduce a problem, not a suggested fix.  I don't read suggested fixes,"
23:32:59 <fizzie> "Patches not welcome."
23:33:26 <shachaf> Pooches welcome.
23:35:48 <fizzie> fungot: Do you welcome patches? 
23:35:48 <fungot> fizzie: which one? i can't
23:35:58 <fizzie> Guess that's a no
23:37:12 <shachaf> fungot needs no patches
23:37:13 <fungot> shachaf: how do you implement the macro ellipse? in r5rs, but many people arn't. at least as well as
23:37:37 <fizzie> Those poor people that arn't in r5rs.
23:38:49 <shachaf> fungot is in r98rf, not r5rs
23:38:49 <fungot> shachaf: in bristol we'd say " fnord fnord
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2018-02-21:

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01:27:49 <oerjan> `olist 1113
01:27:50 <HackEgo> olist 1113: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
01:28:22 <shachaf> thoerjan
01:34:32 <alercah> wow that's late
01:34:50 <APic> *shrug*
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01:39:39 <oerjan> hoily.
01:40:44 <boily> bonsϿirjan!
01:40:57 <APic> Gesundheit.
01:42:25 <boily> APHic!
01:42:44 <Cale> shachaf: You know, I've not really put much thought into infinitary tensor products, but maybe?
01:42:58 <APic> boilHy.
01:43:03 <shachaf> Cale: Hale
01:43:22 <shachaf> Is there a standard notion of the inverse of a tensor? I don't remember if I asked.
01:44:00 <Cale> I think you'd have to say exactly what you mean in any case.
01:44:52 <APic> Captain: What You say !!
01:44:58 <Cale> When the tensor can be regarded somehow as a linear map between some spaces that happen to be isomorphic, then you can talk about the inverse :)
01:45:11 <shachaf> Right.
01:45:21 <APic> Right.
01:45:28 <shachaf> People talk about the inverse Hessian, for example.
01:45:28 <APic> Good old Wormholes.  ;)
01:45:35 <APic> Moar.
01:45:38 <Cale> Ah, well, they're thinking of it as a matrix usually.
01:45:45 <shachaf> Right, but it isn't.
01:46:08 <shachaf> If the Hessian is a (0,2) tensor : V -o (V -o F), you can say the inverse Hessian is a (2,0) tensor : (V -o F) -o F mapping covectors to vectors.
01:46:12 <Cale> Yeah, at least, it's a little unnatural (if notationally convenient) to think of it that way
01:46:14 <APic> Ghost in the Shell >> Matrix
01:46:19 <APic> »
01:46:19 <shachaf> Er, (V -o F) -o V
01:46:20 <APic> Even
01:46:21 <APic> ☺
01:46:34 <shachaf> Or equivalently : V⊗V
01:46:55 <APic> k
01:47:00 <APic> ,o0(Vulva)
01:47:47 <shachaf> If the Hessian is H^i^j, the inverse Hessian is some G_i_j such that H^i_j G_j_k = 1^i_k
01:47:50 <shachaf> Right?
01:48:05 <shachaf> In what cases is this sort of thing defined? Potentially for every tensor of even rank?
01:48:16 <APic> Right^W^W^WWait…
01:48:16 <APic> 😉
01:48:28 <shachaf> APic: Please stop it.
01:48:32 <APic> shachaf: k
01:49:21 <Cale> shachaf: You could even talk about contracting multiple indices maybe?
01:49:25 <Cale> I don't know.
01:49:45 <shachaf> Cale: Well, I wanted the answer to come out numerically to the same thing as inverting the Hessian matrix. :-)
01:50:20 <Cale> But yes, the stuff you said about the Hessian specifically is right.
01:50:45 <Cale> I'm not sure what the right way to generalise would be
01:51:14 <Cale> You're perhaps looking at Newton's method?
01:51:20 <shachaf> If you have f(x) = A + B(x) + C(x,x), then f'(x)(dx) = B(dx) + 2C(x,dx). The critical points of f are those x such that B(dx) + 2C(x, dx) = 0 for all dx
01:51:44 <shachaf> Which you can solve using this inverse Hessian by contracting one index. Right?
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01:58:39 <Cale> I'm not sure that I understand yet... let's write what the Hessian is here...
01:58:51 <APic> Uh oh.
01:59:02 <Cale> ?
01:59:09 <APic> !
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02:02:25 <APic> Hi skankyyoda 
02:04:31 <Cale> shachaf: ah, so you're saying basically we invert C itself, pretty much
02:04:55 <Cale> (well, C reimagined as a linear map)
02:05:29 <Cale> yeah, yeah, I see
02:05:37 <shachaf> There are various ways to reimagine C. But mapping covectors to vectors seems pretty natural.
02:05:52 <Cale> I feel like we need slightly better notation
02:06:19 <Cale> Differential geometry is the study of smooth manifolds under change of notation ;)
02:06:43 <shachaf> @remember Cale Differential geometry is the study of smooth manifolds under change of notation ;)
02:06:44 <lambdabot> It is forever etched in my memory.
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02:06:56 <shachaf> Wait, do we addquote or remember in here?
02:07:27 <shachaf> `addquote <Cale> Differential geometry is the study of smooth manifolds under change of notation ;)
02:07:29 <HackEgo> 1321) <Cale> Differential geometry is the study of smooth manifolds under change of notation ;)
02:07:29 <Cale> brb
02:08:18 <shachaf> I was doing this using Einstein/index notation earlier.
02:09:53 <APic> shachaf: Please stop what?
02:15:33 <boily> this quote just lacks a just to be just just.
02:15:48 <shachaf> It's not a wisdom.
02:16:04 <APic> That does not answer my Question.
02:16:52 <shachaf> I meant please stop spamming the channel and being annoying.
02:17:11 <APic> Good.
02:17:54 <boily> spam spam spam spam ♪
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02:58:20 <shachaf> Cale: By the way, a tensor is "really" sometething like V⊗V⊗V⊗V -o V⅋V⅋V , right?
02:58:44 <shachaf> Is there some variant of linear algebra that distinguishes between ⊗ and ⅋?
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03:02:01 <Cale> not as far as I know
03:02:41 <Cale> Also, it's unclear. Usually I would just say a tensor is an element of a tensor product space.
03:02:51 <Cale> They needn't all be V
03:03:41 <shachaf> I suppose.
03:03:52 <Cale> The fact that vector spaces of the same dimension are isomorphic means that it's kind of a matter of perspective
03:04:08 <shachaf> Anyway linear logic distinguishes between tensor and par even if linear algebra doesn't.
03:04:17 <Cale> (also the fact that linear maps themselves form a vector space which is naturally a tensor product)
03:04:44 <shachaf> The game semantics interpretation of linear logic is too good, by the way.
03:06:40 <Cale> Ask Dan Haraj about ludics and other Girard memes
03:08:02 <shachaf> Last seen  : Nov 21 15:17:45 2017 (13w 0d 11h ago)
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03:11:54 <Cale> I don't think he IRCs very much, sadly.
03:12:24 <shachaf> I think he used to.
03:12:48 <esowiki> [[GPRX 3000]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54161&oldid=46843 * Oerjan * (+751) Turing complete
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03:57:49 <oerjan> `icode KONCTPYKTOP
03:57:50 <HackEgo> ​[U+004B LATIN CAPITAL LETTER K] [U+004F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O] [U+004E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N] [U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C] [U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T] [U+0050 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER P] [U+0059 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y] [U+004B LATIN CAPITAL LETTER K] [U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T] [U+004F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O] [U+0050 LATIN CAPITAL LETTE
03:58:13 <oerjan> ha
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06:25:40 <esowiki> [[Betaload]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54162&oldid=50938 * Challenger5 * (+61) 
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06:53:14 <esowiki> [[Momema]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54163 * Challenger5 * (+654) Add page
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07:16:10 <esowiki> [[User:Challenger5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54164&oldid=53312 * Challenger5 * (+3291) 
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09:55:14 <zseri> hi
09:55:16 <zseri> @messages
09:55:17 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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10:53:07 <esowiki> [[Entfedern]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54165&oldid=30915 * Zseri * (+38) +OOP
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10:59:08 <esowiki> [[Entfedern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54166&oldid=54165 * Zseri * (-4) /* Partial definition of variables */
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11:41:01 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54167&oldid=54123 * Truttle1 * (+106) 
11:41:15 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54168&oldid=54167 * Truttle1 * (+1) 
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12:16:27 <boily> `5 w
12:16:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:warning//Warnings indicate when you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence. \ sgeolang//Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place. \ star wars//Star Wars was a missile defence system invented by Ronald Reagan. With it, he managed to destroy the Soviet Union, then rode into the sunset. \ 
12:16:33 <boily> `n
12:16:34 <HackEgo> 2/2:tachyon//The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up. \ sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings.
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12:28:03 <zseri> helloily!
12:29:26 <esowiki> [[Ende]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54169&oldid=54140 * Zseri * (+1) /* Prototype hierarchy */
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12:32:13 <int-e> @tell oerjan I didn't make up the name (unless you count mistyping H as N). Google will confirm :)
12:32:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:42:03 <esowiki> [[Ende]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54170&oldid=54169 * Zseri * (+38) link to sve
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13:40:58 <esowiki> [[Talk talk:Turing tarpit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54171&oldid=36169 * Camto * (+128) Other spambot
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14:03:30 <zseri> hi
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16:22:50 <wob_jonas> ``` dowg sparkle # wait, is that mine?
16:22:59 <HackEgo> 7037:2016-02-28 <b_jonäs> slashlearn sparkle/Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings. \ 7036:2016-02-28 <b_jonäs> slashlearn sparkle/Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings.
16:23:06 <wob_jonas> yeah.
16:23:20 <wob_jonas> that's a stupid one
16:24:52 <wob_jonas> ``` rm -v wisdom/sparkle
16:24:54 <HackEgo> removed 'wisdom/sparkle'
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18:16:47 <__Myst__> How come the wiki's featured language has been brainfuck for months?
18:17:38 <int-e> nobody complained?
18:18:02 <int-e> And perhaps the powers that be have been distracted.
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21:04:37 <wob_jonas> __Myst__: it's been the featured language for about five years. making something a featured language is hard work that few people are ready to do. also, ais523 is the most dedicated to improve the wiki, but he has conflict of interest with making underload and intercal, which are among the best candidates for featured language
21:10:35 <__Myst__> wob_jonas: if this has been an issue for five years, why hasn't a poll system been put in place or something different that takes the workload off of you?
21:11:53 <wob_jonas> __Myst__: it's hard work and nobody cares enough about it. seriously. that part of the wiki is just not important.
21:13:20 <__Myst__> wob_jonas: what do you mean by it being hard work? i don't comprehend
21:13:27 <wob_jonas> the wiki is in large part an outlet where people can put their bad esolang inventions, the ones that nobody care about and would either never get documented if the wiki didn't exist, but the point is, it helps us meet like-minded people on this channel, or occasionally elsewhere if they really don't want to join IRC
21:14:56 <wob_jonas> the featured language doesn't matter, if you want to know what languages people care about, then just stay on the channel and you'll find which ones come up often in the conversations.
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22:04:21 <wob_jonas> __Myst__: part of the problem is that a language can realistically get featured only if two people active on the wiki care about it enough to actively understand the language and write a good article about it. If it's only one person on the wiki who cares enough about the language to write about it, then it will seem a bit self-promoting to push it to featured. 
22:04:26 <wob_jonas> And honestly, most languages don't have two people on this small community to care enough about it to actually do work about it. Brainfuck, befunge, and bfjoust have multiple people, so those are realistic featured languages. 
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> ais523: the wiki article on Incident says it's not proven to be Turing-complete. haven't you actually proved it Turing-complete with oerjan's help since that was written?
22:04:41 <wob_jonas> `ping
22:04:42 <HackEgo> pong
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22:52:57 <boily> `olist (1113)
22:52:58 <HackEgo> olist (1113): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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23:00:25 <shachaf> boily: this list has already been listed tdnh
23:02:28 <boily> helloochaf. beuh.
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2018-02-22:

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00:22:41 <boily> `5 w
00:22:46 <HackEgo> 1/3:ladder jump//Ladder jump is the phenomenon that in practically all platformer games where the player character can climb up on ladders, it's faster to repeatedly jump and grab the ladder than to climb. \ steprans//A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable. \ adventure//You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout
00:22:47 <boily> `n
00:22:48 <HackEgo> 2/3:oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17." \ nortti//nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin's promises, and now is his High Priest. \ tile shuffling//Tile shuffve games. ly addictie basis
00:22:49 <boily> `n
00:22:50 <HackEgo> 3/3: of many highling is th
00:23:34 <boily> go north
00:23:43 <boily> fungot: have I solved the puzzle?
00:23:43 <fungot> boily: http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/ fnord but i'm not
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01:20:24 <fizzie> fungot: Can you run wumpus.b93 for us? 
01:20:24 <fungot> fizzie: are this scheme-native compilers or scheme-c-native? can you tell me about yourself
01:20:57 <fizzie> I might have gotten some ELIZA mixed in there, judging from that last question.
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01:34:14 <oerjan> @messages-lost
01:34:14 <lambdabot> int-e said 13h 2m ago: I didn't make up the name (unless you count mistyping H as N). Google will confirm :)
01:45:17 <oerjan> __Myst__: i don't agree with wob_jonas fwiw.  yes, there are crappy languages on the wiki, but there are enough good languages that it's easy to find one that _could_ be featured. (and we have a candidate list.)
01:46:11 <oerjan> in fact, the "hard work" part that stops everything is simply "writing a main page blurb".  everything else is pretty routine moving of stuff.
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02:10:34 * boily pokes fungot
02:10:34 <fungot> boily: at the most current scheme standard doesn't specify any size
02:10:47 <boily> fungot: you sound obsessed with scheme, or schemes.
02:10:47 <fungot> boily: but the words themselves.)
02:11:56 <oerjan> helloily.
02:12:12 <boily> bonsϿϿirjan!
02:22:34 <fizzie> oerjan: I thought the hard part was making sure the article about the interesting language is in good enough shape for being featured. (That's what stopped me from doing Befunge.)
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02:35:10 <oerjan> fizzie: ok that may be hard for some languages.
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02:50:59 <boily> `relcome Naergon 
02:51:00 <HackEgo> ​Naergon: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:51:48 <Naergon> Yay for javascript xD
02:52:08 <boily> thems fighting words :P
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03:01:11 <Naergon> I dont have anything better to say for now =) im here because #C folks are agressive, and sometimes i want to ask questions about low level stuff like opcodes/memory managment and you are likely to know that
03:01:50 <Naergon> Therr are only few channels that can answer such questions, and youmare one of those that dont tell me to go away with it =)
03:03:24 <oerjan> . o O ( well, you're naer gone anyway. )
03:05:52 <Naergon> I added you to an autojoin list, so im not going away any time soon :P
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09:27:09 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * FSHelix *  New user account
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09:45:51 <\oren\> ok  fuck. now I have to send toops all the way to fucking gabon if I want to occupy britain's capital
09:46:23 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/80ToZvH
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10:28:47 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54172&oldid=54148 * FSHelix * (+258) /* Introductions */
10:29:56 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54173 * FSHelix * (+1048) Created page with "About the Ian Kelly's "x < y" and "x <= y", I think it's more like that the order is wrong. That means: "x = x < y" should be "x = x <= y", "x = x <= y" should be "x = x < y"..."
10:34:45 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54174&oldid=54173 * FSHelix * (+211) 
10:35:38 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54175&oldid=54174 * FSHelix * (+17) 
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10:36:01 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54176&oldid=54175 * FSHelix * (+51) 
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10:40:45 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54177&oldid=54176 * FSHelix * (+100) 
10:41:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54178&oldid=54177 * FSHelix * (+6) 
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10:54:34 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54179&oldid=54178 * FSHelix * (+75) 
10:54:59 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54180&oldid=54179 * FSHelix * (+0) 
10:55:46 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54181&oldid=54180 * FSHelix * (+0) 
10:55:54 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54182&oldid=54181 * FSHelix * (+0) 
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10:56:34 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54183&oldid=54182 * FSHelix * (-46) 
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10:58:15 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54184&oldid=54183 * FSHelix * (+13) 
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10:59:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54185&oldid=54184 * FSHelix * (+0) 
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10:59:36 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54186&oldid=54185 * FSHelix * (+11) 
11:00:10 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54187&oldid=54186 * FSHelix * (+11) 
11:00:33 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54188&oldid=54187 * FSHelix * (-3) 
11:01:20 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54189&oldid=54188 * FSHelix * (+3) 
11:01:31 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54190&oldid=54189 * FSHelix * (+0) 
11:01:40 <esowiki> [[User talk:LucasMW]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54191&oldid=54190 * FSHelix * (-11) 
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11:10:20 <\oren\_> LOL War was declared by the hamburgers against the frankfurters
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11:37:37 <boily> `5 w
11:37:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:gblh//Gblh but less helpful. \ cuneiform//Cuneiform is the most impressive writing system. \ nilfisk//Nilfisk is the fish of choice for the connoiseuring spämmer. \ paraconsistent//There has been a lot of work on paraconsistent logics, although there hasn't been a lot of work on them. \ i,i//i,i is short for "I have wasps in my under
11:37:44 <boily> `n
11:37:44 <HackEgo> 2/2:wear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
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11:53:20 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54192&oldid=53762 * FSHelix * (+169) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
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12:11:56 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54193&oldid=54192 * FSHelix * (-1) /* x = x <= y */
12:12:09 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54194&oldid=54193 * FSHelix * (+2) /* x = x <= y */
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13:06:32 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54195&oldid=54194 * FSHelix * (+996) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:08:14 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54196&oldid=54195 * FSHelix * (+84) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:08:59 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54197&oldid=54196 * FSHelix * (+8) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:09:23 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54198&oldid=54197 * FSHelix * (+0) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:09:51 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54199&oldid=54198 * FSHelix * (-48) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:11:03 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54200&oldid=54199 * FSHelix * (+62) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:12:17 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54201&oldid=54200 * FSHelix * (-16) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
13:16:25 <\oren\_> https://imgur.com/M2PikFl
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14:53:04 <izabera> who wants to see the proof that starcraft is pspace complete?
15:02:35 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54202&oldid=54201 * FSHelix * (+367) 
15:09:04 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54203&oldid=54202 * FSHelix * (+96) /* x = x == y */
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15:10:42 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54204&oldid=54203 * FSHelix * (+95) /* x = x != y */
15:11:50 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54205&oldid=54204 * FSHelix * (-110) /* x = x != y */
15:13:44 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54206&oldid=54205 * FSHelix * (+115) /* x = x != y */
15:14:40 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54207&oldid=54206 * FSHelix * (-1) /* x = x != y */
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16:38:49 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54208&oldid=54207 * FSHelix * (+740) 
16:42:18 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54209&oldid=54208 * FSHelix * (+170) /* z = x or y (boolean, logical) */
16:43:33 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54210&oldid=54209 * FSHelix * (+227) /* z = x nand y (boolean, logical) */
16:44:36 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54211&oldid=54210 * FSHelix * (-36) /* z = x and y (boolean, logical) */
16:45:52 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54212&oldid=54211 * FSHelix * (+19) /* x = x or y (boolean, logical) */
16:46:06 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54213&oldid=54212 * FSHelix * (-6) /* x = x or y (boolean, logical) */
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17:01:47 <esowiki> [[User:FSHelix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54214 * FSHelix * (+123) Created page with "Hello, I am FSHelix(nickname), a Chinese. I am trying write BF programs now, it's really like controlling the CPU 2333333 ."
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22:01:00 <\oren\_> gah, they found out i am expert at perl and now i am doing code reviews of all the perl code
22:22:52 <izabera> show them that you're an expert in malbolge
22:28:34 <\oren\_> izabera: OAO
22:28:42 <izabera> OAO?
22:29:14 <\oren\_> emoticon for screaming except i can't type a russian D for some reason
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22:54:23 <boily> `5 w
22:54:28 <HackEgo> 1/2:it//It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate. \ dowg//A dowg is a wise dog. One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager. \ finland//Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. \ assembly//Assembly is a land of Segmentation
22:54:29 <boily> `n
22:54:30 <HackEgo> 2/2: Faults and insanity. \ grammar//Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax.
22:55:02 <boily> assembly is sane.
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2018-02-23:

00:00:20 <boily> fungot: nostril.
00:00:20 <fungot> boily: since that's all i know about monads, though,
00:00:27 <boily> the nostril monad.
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00:55:02 <esowiki> [[User:Challenger5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54215&oldid=54164 * Challenger5 * (+39) 
00:56:58 <esowiki> [[Z]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54216&oldid=49651 * Challenger5 * (-3) 
01:05:42 <esowiki> [[MiniPig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54217&oldid=49746 * Challenger5 * (-13) 
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01:59:30 <boily> @tell oerjan bonsϿirjan. sorry if it rings you, but another attempt at earworming: https://youtu.be/2SoZzlgQzHM
01:59:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:44:24 <oerjan> @messages-loud
02:44:24 <lambdabot> boily said 44m 54s ago: bonsϿirjan. sorry if it rings you, but another attempt at earworming: https://youtu.be/2SoZzlgQzHM
02:49:42 * oerjan puts boily in the list of people whose links not to follow, together with \oren\_ 
02:50:59 <boily> hi hi hi ^^
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03:23:57 <zzo38> Now my X resource manager implementation in C is works; it is much smaller than the implementation of the Xrm functions in xcb-util and is much smaller than the implementation of the Xrm functions in Xlib, too. I don't know why they made those programs so large.
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05:23:50 <oerjan> well, queen albia was a big surprise.
05:24:04 <oerjan> >_> <_<
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06:28:03 <int-e> wow, early update?
06:34:17 <oerjan> pretty normal time...
06:35:17 <zzo38> How can I download Kaiji One Poker Hen 218-221 in 7-Zip format? I found RAR format, but it won't even download.
07:03:07 <int-e> oh there's an xkcd as well
07:03:39 <int-e> (I guess the image title saves it)
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07:47:38 <zzo38> I thought of a new chess variant, which is 8x10, the Queen's move is only one space diagonal and its only orthogonal move is one space horizontal on rank 0 and 9, you win if you capture opponent's King or if your King or Queen reaches opponent's corner, you can promote only into pieces that have been removed from the board (but they don't have to be your own), two new pieces, and a few other things.
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12:09:25 <fizzie> BEAST FROM THE EAST
12:09:28 <fizzie> (is what they're calling the current UK weather)
12:13:59 <boily> fizziello. strange weather in UK?
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14:29:33 <fizzie> @tell boily "The Arctic blast, which has been called “the beast from the east”, will cause temperatures to plunge below zero from Sunday night, with some areas experiencing lows of -8C (17.6F), and snow forecast to fall in London and the east of England."
14:29:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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17:10:01 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Lynn2 *  New user account
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17:59:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54218&oldid=54172 * Lynn2 * (+134) 
18:00:18 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54219 * Lynn2 * (+2565) Created page with "'''Z80golf''' is a very simple fantasy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80 Zilog Z80] machine designed for [[Golf|code golf]], used on [http://golf.shinh.org/ anarchy gol..."
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18:21:31 <\oren\_> `? mutex
18:22:27 <int-e> We're sorry, but the HackEgo mutex is currently not available. Please try another time.
18:22:30 <\oren\_> `? mutices
18:22:42 <\oren\_> damn
18:23:35 <\oren\_> are mutices the correct way to do this even?
18:25:32 <\oren\_> I'm trying to make sure two threads don't alter an std::map at the same time
18:29:23 <\oren\_> so should I lock the map, then lock the member of the map, then unlock the map?
18:33:28 <int-e> why isn't it enough to lock the std::map itself, what does "alter" mean... too many questions.
18:33:59 <\oren\_> int-e: well ok, so i have a web server thingy
19:26:28 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54220&oldid=54219 * Lynn2 * (+93) 
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19:27:18 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54221&oldid=54220 * Lynn2 * (+0) 
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19:47:47 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54222&oldid=54221 * Lynn2 * (+139) 
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20:03:33 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54223&oldid=54222 * Lynn2 * (+957) 
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20:04:04 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54224&oldid=54223 * Lynn2 * (+40) 
20:07:09 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54225&oldid=54224 * Lynn2 * (+44) 
20:07:58 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54226&oldid=54225 * Lynn2 * (+296) 
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20:37:25 <wob_jonas> Some large stores are now routinely putting throwaway RFID anti-theft chips on products that cost less than 500 HUF and aren't especially common targets for theft. RFID sure has become cheap.
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20:41:25 <wob_jonas> Admittedly this is a store that sells mostly its own branded products, and the RFID chip doubles as faster barcode-less checkout system, which is why it's worth to add it on everything, even cheap products.
20:42:18 <wob_jonas> Most supermarkets only add RFID on the more expensive products, and the ones that are expensive relative to their physical size and likely targets for theft, such as small liquor bottles.
20:43:01 <wob_jonas> `dowg it
20:43:45 <wob_jonas> hmm, no HackEgo again?
20:45:39 <wob_jonas> \oren\: normally you lock the whole map (put it behind a mutex),
20:46:52 <wob_jonas> \oren\: but if you have lots of concurrent accesses on a map from many threads in performance-sensitive contexts, which most often happens in an OS kernel, then you can use a trickier structure with more fine-grained locking, usually a hash table but technically can be a tree style map too.
20:48:32 <wob_jonas> \oren\: if you have lots of concurrent reads but fewer modifications, then you can also use a read-write lock on the whole map, which allows concurrent reads from multiple threads, but excludes other type of concurrent access, and is not much more expensive than the simple mutex
20:49:43 <wob_jonas> \oren\: in modern C++, there's an std::shared_timed_mutex and std::shared_mutex class that implements the read-write lock semantics for threads
20:49:56 <fizzie> wob_jonas: The CaC host is down again. Or at least unresponsive to SSH.
20:50:02 <wob_jonas> fizzie: ok
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21:00:29 <wob_jonas> Ebay's Paypal payment interface still uses the very uninformative "1.00 HUF = 0.00 USD" style rounded currency conversion rate.
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21:20:44 <zzo38> A leap year algorithm in a C code can be:   int leapyear(unsigned int y) { return !((y%100?:y/100)&3); }   You could use optimizations having to do with integer division by a constant, if writing in assembly language. An implementation of this in MMIX with the division instruction uses 64 cycles, but maybe it can be shortened by avoiding a division instruction.
21:24:42 <wob_jonas> zzo38: does this need to work for negative y too?
21:25:57 <int-e> the Gregorian calendar isn't that old
21:27:29 <zzo38> wob_jonas: No, it only works for the Gregorian calendar.
21:28:45 <zzo38> (I wouldn't have written "unsigned" if it is meant to work for negative numbers too.)
21:29:26 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, I know, but some people extend the Gregorian calendar infinitely back for solar system astronomy or something. zzo38: oh right, unsigned int
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21:32:17 <zzo38> On MMIX, division is six times as slow as multiplication, so it could help to use multiplication instead, even if you need two multiplications.
21:34:08 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you always need only at most one multiplication to simulate a division of single-word numbers by a constant, but you need a number of other instructions next to it. compilers automatically do that optimization these days, because division is always slow, and multiplication is fast on modern cpus.
21:34:39 <wob_jonas> however, in some cases you can get a shorter sequence if you know that the sign bit of the dividend is positive, and compilers often can't prove that.
21:35:37 <wob_jonas> another case when you may have to help the compiler is if you do a lot of divisions by the same divisor, but the compiler doesn't realize that.
21:36:09 <zzo38> Shouldn't the compiler be able to prove if it says "unsigned int", though? And in this case you need the remainder as well as the quotient (but the quotient is irrelevant unless it is exact).
21:37:07 <wob_jonas> zzo38: no, the problem is that sometimes the CPU has a signed integer multiply instruction but no equally cheap unsigned integer multiply. if the sign bit is clear, you can substitute one for the other. this particular case can occur on x86.
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21:37:24 <zzo38> O, OK.
21:37:49 <wob_jonas> this is a more frequent problem if you need to do an actual division with a variable dividend, but it can still happen with division simulated by multiplication.
21:38:00 * variable glares at wob_jonas 
21:38:11 <wob_jonas> zzo38: but even without that the sign can matter:
21:38:27 <variable> zzo38: that algo doesn't work
21:38:36 <variable> zzo38: years divisible by 400 are not leap years
21:39:16 <wob_jonas> zzo38: if you want to divide by 4, and you use the C division operator, which these days has truncating division semantics, then you need like three or four instructions with no multiplication; but if you know the sign bit is clear, then you can use just one instruction, a shift (or a bitwise and for modulo), which does floor division.
21:41:19 <wob_jonas> you could technically also be in trouble if you don't have both signed shift and unsigned shift instructions, but I don't think that occurs on any modern cpu (modern meaning one that has fast multiplication)
21:43:29 <zzo38> Years divisible by 400 are leap years. If it is divisible by 100 then it is not a leap year, unless it is also divisible by 400.
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21:46:55 <zzo38> variable: Why do you think it is not a leap year? I think it is a leap year.
21:51:04 <variable> zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_year
21:51:13 <variable> For example, in the Gregorian calendar, each leap year has 366 days instead of the usual 365, by extending February to 29 days rather than the common 28. These extra days occur in years which are multiples of four (with the exception of years divisible by 100 but not by 400).
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21:59:26 <zzo38> Yes, so 2000, which is divisible by 400, is a leap year.
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22:36:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * ZM *  New user account
22:40:58 <esowiki> [[BS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54227&oldid=41504 * HereToAnnoy * (-2) Fixed example program (the one on github also seems to be wrong)
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23:24:51 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:24:52 <lambdabot> Request failed.
23:25:05 <boily> Ō_Ō...
23:25:11 <boily> @massages-loud
23:25:11 <lambdabot> fizzie said 8h 55m 38s ago: "The Arctic blast, which has been called “the beast from the east”, will cause temperatures to plunge below zero from Sunday night, with some areas experiencing lows
23:25:11 <lambdabot> of -8C (17.6F), and snow forecast to fall in London and the east of England."
23:25:39 <boily> fizzie: frozzenello.
23:25:56 <fizzie> I hope you're at least boilying.
23:26:14 <fizzie> (It's not actually all that cold here. But headlines.)
23:29:58 <ais523> this could be a severe problem for me, as I can't feel the cold, but am still /affected/ by it
23:30:11 <ais523> so I'll have to pay a lot of attention to remember to wear a coat
23:30:54 <ais523> although, "below zero, some areas lows of -8" isn't actually all that cold in an absolute sense
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23:31:32 <ais523> the coldest I've been out in without a coat (due to not realising) was -15°C, that was definitely not a good idea but I survived it
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23:31:36 <boily> fizzie: I'm freezing raining.
23:33:04 <ais523> at least, I think it was -15, might just have been -8
23:33:07 <ais523> it was a while ago now
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2018-02-24:

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00:42:21 <boily> `5 w
00:42:36 <HackEgo> 1/2:space elevator//Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency. \ america//This wisdom entry had to be removed due to a DMCA takedown notice. \ cooperate//"Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte". \ anagol//anagol is Anarchy Golf, co
00:42:37 <boily> `n
00:42:37 <HackEgo> 2/2:de golf server at http://golf.shinh.org/ \ tarator//Tarator is a Bulgarian soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days.
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01:07:44 <zzo38> On MMIX you can use the instruction 4ADDU to multiply by five (or by four), so to multiply by 100, you can do like that (because four times five times five makes 100).
01:10:42 <izabera> on x86 you can multiply by 5 with     lea (%rax, %rax, 4), %rax; 
01:11:27 <zzo38> OK, although I don't know the timing for that instruction and how it compares to multiplication
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01:14:56 <izabera> lea is much less powerful than a generic mul, what does the multiplication is the addressing mode thingy
01:15:55 <izabera> a(b, c, d) where a is an immediate, b and c are registers and d is either 1, 2, 4 or 8
01:16:08 <izabera> computes a + b + c * d
01:17:09 <shachaf> AT&T x86 addressing notation is scow
01:17:44 <izabera> ok, but i've been using gcc daily for years
01:20:00 <izabera> [a+b+c*d] is better?
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04:31:34 <zzo38> Although there is a chess variant called "Canadian Chess", what someone told me he thought it meant, is, that the bishops are now beavers, and that the king may use a rifle but only if he has a license.
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05:13:38 <zzo38> Have you invented a new chess variant today or yesterday?
05:13:49 <zzo38> (or tomorrow?)
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06:21:26 <constant> zzo38: yes, 2000 is special
06:21:29 <constant> zzo38: https://www.wwu.edu/skywise/leapyear.html has the complete rules
06:21:37 <constant> There is a leap year every year whose number is perfectly divisible by four - except for years which are both divisible by 100 and not divisible by 400. 
06:21:52 <constant> leap rules are insane
06:21:54 <constant> and stupid
06:23:54 <zzo38> constant: Yes I know, it is what I mentioned before. And, the reason they did it like that is so that the equinox/solstices are always in the same month and will not drift to the other month instead.
06:24:06 <constant> that makes sense
06:24:34 <zzo38> Pope Gregory XIII made that decision.
06:26:10 <zzo38> (Although, at first, some people rejected it because they hated the Catholics, but then one astronomer who also hated the Catholics, said, no actually it is a good idea it doesn't matter who invented it, so then they implemented it.)
06:27:39 <zzo38> If the commonly given dates for horoscopes they give in newspapers were actually correct, then we wouldn't need leap years.
06:29:25 <constant> zzo38: sure, i was mostly commenting on the original C code you pasted which didn't have that
06:31:19 <zzo38> But it does have that rule you just mentioned.
06:32:21 <zzo38> If it is wrong, then tell me what part is the mistake.
06:37:14 <constant> zzo38: maybe I am dumb and misread it originally
06:37:39 <constant> zzo38: never assume I am competent 
06:38:13 <zzo38> O, yes, everyone is make mistake sometimes, so, OK.
06:38:28 <constant> :-)
06:38:47 <zzo38> (I do too, not only you, of course.)
06:38:55 <constant> time to set up new computer
06:38:57 <constant> its finally running an OS
06:39:08 <zzo38> OK
06:39:22 <zzo38> Did you invented any new chess variant today or yesterday or tomorrow?
06:39:34 <constant> nope :(
06:40:08 <zzo38> O, OK. I am currently writing one, though.
06:50:20 <zzo38> According to some old chess rules, it may be interpreted that promoting into opponent's pieces is allowed, too. The old rules also explicitly say that promotion is optional. Consider:  r7/1Pp5/2P3p1/8/6pb/4p1kB/4P1p1/6K1
06:57:43 <esowiki> [[Talk:Essays/A Defence of Brainfuck Derivatives]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54228&oldid=50862 * Challenger5 * (-11) wording
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07:34:10 <zzo38> This is chess variant game I made up today:  http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/chessv/ziveruskex
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11:07:52 * Taneb is looking for flats today
11:12:02 <shachaf> try taking the derivative hth
11:13:06 <Taneb> Thank you for the advice
11:13:58 <shachaf> oh man, all sorts of fancy derivatives are legal in the UK, aren't they
11:14:06 <shachaf> Where are you looking again? Cambridge?
11:14:44 <Taneb> Yeah
11:15:40 <Taneb> Luckily the derivative is close to zero almost everywhere around here so I can cycle about pretty easily
11:17:32 <shachaf> Is that really the kind of flat you're looking for, though?
11:18:41 <Taneb> Who knows for sure
11:19:22 <shachaf> whoa, Cambridge flats are not that expensive
11:20:13 <Taneb> They are compared to, say, York
11:20:26 <shachaf> But not compared to, say, New York
11:20:30 <Taneb> Yes
11:20:37 <shachaf> Which is really the better of the two Yorks
11:20:45 <FireFly> How do Cambridge prices compare to Cambridge?
11:20:57 <shachaf> If there was nothing wrong with the old one, why would they make a new one?
11:21:16 <shachaf> I think Cambridge is rather more expensive.
11:21:25 <Taneb> Eh, they named New York that way to get in on the branding
11:21:27 <FireFly> makes sense
11:21:42 <Taneb> Like JavaScript did
11:22:14 <Taneb> It was originally called Niuew Amsterdam
11:22:22 <Taneb> (New York that is, not JavaScript)
11:22:23 <FireFly> Same story with New South Wales and the southern part of Wales proper?
11:22:31 <Taneb> Yes
11:22:36 * FireFly nods
11:22:52 <Taneb> I've been in south Wales a lot more than I've been in New South Wales personally
11:22:52 <FireFly> I hear Wales proper is fairly rainy though
11:23:57 <FireFly> I've almost been in south Wales, although I think the Bristolites would throw me into the sea for making that claim
11:24:51 <shachaf> Have you almost been in New York?
11:24:57 <shachaf> HireFly
11:25:21 <FireFly> shachaf: yes.
11:25:23 <FireFly> hi shachaf
11:25:48 <FireFly> I've also been in New York, I've also been in New York City
11:26:00 <Taneb> The WiFi here is playing up so I'm going to disappear from IRC for a bit
11:26:00 <shachaf> What about New York County?
11:26:27 <FireFly> Yes
11:26:30 <FireFly> Although I had to look it up :p
11:27:34 <FireFly> Taneb: oh no
11:28:01 <shachaf> so when are y'all coming to berkeley twh
11:29:12 <FireFly> I haven't been to New South Wales
11:29:24 <FireFly> I don't think I have any plans to
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11:43:43 <wob_jonas> To anyone interested: yhe deadline for IOCCC submissions has been extended to 2018-03-15.
11:44:56 <wob_jonas> zzo38: In pentium and anything newer that isn't a tiny embedded CPU, multiplication is very fast, so you don't often need to try to avoid it, and replacing multiplication by 100 with some complicated sequence almost certainly hurts..
11:52:45 <esowiki> [[Borsch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54229&oldid=54138 * Singingbanana * (-65) 
12:03:55 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * OnlySimple *  New user account
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12:13:49 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54230&oldid=54218 * OnlySimple * (+217) /* Introductions */
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14:24:29 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54231&oldid=54226 * Lynn2 * (+32) 
14:27:58 <lynn> that's that mystery solved!!
14:30:07 <wob_jonas> `ping
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15:07:04 <esowiki> [[Z80golf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54232&oldid=54231 * Lynn2 * (+71) add GitHub mirror
15:17:07 <boily> > 304.8 / 12
15:17:10 <lambdabot>  25.400000000000002
15:18:32 <FireFly> Lynn....2
15:19:58 <wob_jonas> [ 304.8%12 NB. let me double-check that
15:19:59 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 25.4
15:20:19 <wob_jonas> seems about right
15:24:23 <boily> FireFly. a Lynn is a length unit?
15:24:31 <boily> wellob_jonas.
15:24:48 <FireFly> if it is, it is fairly short
15:25:01 <FireFly> I was more perplexed by the wiki handle :p
15:29:01 <boily> oh :D
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18:13:28 <zzo38> wob_jonas: At least on MMIX, four 4ADDU instructions are 3 cycles and multiplication is 10 cycles. Even if an implementation needs an extra cycle to read the instruction, it is 6 vs 11 cycles. However, it can be possible that other implementations of MMIX use nonstandard timing (and there is a simulation which includes this in case you will experiment with that, I suppose).
18:42:13 <wob_jonas> zzo38: strange
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18:55:41 <wob_jonas> zzo38: wait, why do you think that 4ADDU instructions are 3 cycles?
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19:06:33 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Sorry, I meant three 4ADDU instructions
19:06:51 <zzo38> The document says it is one cycle each
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19:16:55 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think I was wrong, and multiplication instructions aren't always as advantageous as I implied. I don't care about the MMIX timings, but integer multiplication on other modern CPUs isn't as fast as I thought either.
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19:25:27 <zzo38> I don't know how fast they are on other modern CPUs, but OK
19:28:34 <zzo38> Did you look what I wrote about a new chess variant game?
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19:32:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: no. sorry, I don't care about chess variants, especially because there are already a ton of them out there.
19:32:23 <wob_jonas> I don't even play chess.
19:33:37 <zzo38> I don't play chess often, but sometimes I do.
19:36:07 <zzo38> I like to see chess problems too sometimes, and also tsume shogi
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20:12:23 <zzo38> The document for the "uuid" command specifies you can use the real MAC address or a random one, but how to tell it to use a different specific address? I have a device which has a MAC address although I have never connected it to the internet, and I want to use that one.
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23:55:44 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:55:44 <lambdabot> Request failed.
23:55:44 <boily> ...
23:55:52 <boily> @metar KATL
23:55:53 <lambdabot> Request failed.
23:56:03 <boily> @metar WSSS
23:56:04 <lambdabot> Request failed.
23:56:33 <boily> int-e: int-ello. IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGHGHGHGHGHGHRLGHRGHLRGHLRGHLRGHGHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGHGHGHGHGHGH!

2018-02-25:

00:05:17 <zzo38> @metar CYVR
00:05:17 <lambdabot> Request failed.
00:05:27 <zzo38> It doesn't work today
00:05:49 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:05:59 <boily> @metar ENVA
00:05:59 <lambdabot> Request failed.
00:06:06 <boily> even oerjan doesn't exist...
00:09:17 <oerjan> helloily. the rumors of trondheim disappearing from the spacetime continuum are exaggerated hth
00:12:37 <zzo38> Did you read my new chess game file yet, though?
00:21:16 <boily> hezzo38. the one you linked recently?
00:21:26 <zzo38> boily: Yes
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01:09:41 -!- oerjan has set topic: The 25th IOCCC is open until 2018-Mar 15 03:08:07 UTC | Welcome to the international millennium for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf.
01:10:29 <boily> the deadline's been postponed?
01:11:33 <izabera> are you one of the judges?
01:18:13 <boily> nope, only a greedy selfish spectator :D
01:18:27 <boily> the soonest I can fawn over the winning entries!
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01:58:59 <zzo38> Do you have any comment/complaint/question about this document of a new kind of chess game?
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04:50:36 <zzo38> There is one problem with "man 7 undocumented"; they assume all programs are Debian, even though not all programs are Debian.
04:53:58 <esowiki> [[User:Challenger5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54233&oldid=54215 * Challenger5 * (+123) 
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10:50:41 <int-e> @metar lowi
10:50:41 <lambdabot> Request failed.
10:50:41 <int-e> meh
11:06:26 <int-e> "On or around February 20, HTTP access to the aviationweather.gov website will be discontinued. This will likely not be a redirect but a total shutdown. If you have scripts that download data and imagery, make sure they're using https://. Also, update all bookmarks to https://."
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12:27:07 <int-e> @metar lowi
12:27:15 <lambdabot> LOWI 251220Z 09009KT 040V130 9999 FEW025 BKN055 M03/M11 Q1015 NOSIG
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14:57:48 <boily> `5 w
14:57:54 <boily> oh.
14:58:46 <int-e> @metar VNKT
14:58:47 <lambdabot> VNKT 251450Z 23004KT 7000 FEW015 17/08 Q1018 NOSIG
14:59:16 <boily> int-ello!
14:59:20 <boily> @metar CYUL
14:59:20 <lambdabot> CYUL 251443Z 08015KT 8SM -PL SCT007 OVC017 M01/M03 A2996 RMK SF3SC5 PRESFR SLP148
14:59:24 <boily> (PL?)
15:00:08 <boily> ice PeLlets.
15:00:39 <int-e> nICe
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15:01:54 <int-e> boily: I don't know whether you read logs; aviationweather.gov switched off their HTTP web services, now HTTPS only.
15:02:27 <int-e> so that's what broke @metar
15:02:32 <boily> it's extremely uncommon that I read logs...
15:04:16 <boily> @metar KATL
15:04:16 <lambdabot> KATL 251452Z 32011KT 2SM -RA BR FEW006 BKN022 OVC075 17/16 A3014 RMK AO2 PK WND 32026/1416 WSHFT 1412 SFC VIS 4 RAB1359 SLP200 FROPA P0024 60024 T01670161 53030
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16:27:56 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
16:27:57 <lambdabot> EGLL 251620Z AUTO 08013KT 9999 NCD 03/M09 Q1028 NOSIG
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17:06:41 <Block11> Hello
17:06:55 <Block11> anybody familiar with cellular automaton here
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19:44:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Relios898 *  New user account
19:50:49 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54234&oldid=54230 * Relios898 * (+82) /* Introductions */
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19:52:21 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54235&oldid=54234 * Relios898 * (+99) /* Introductions */
19:53:43 <esowiki> [[InSpace]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54236&oldid=52872 * Relios898 * (+3) /* Implementation */
19:54:12 <esowiki> [[InSpace]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54237&oldid=54236 * Relios898 * (+99) /* Implementation */
19:56:22 <esowiki> [[InSpace]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54238&oldid=54237 * Relios898 * (+14) /* Implementation */
19:56:30 <esowiki> [[InSpace]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54239&oldid=54238 * Relios898 * (+1) /* Implementation */
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23:47:19 <esowiki> [[Quartic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54240 * Conor O'Brien * (+50) Redirected page to [[User:Conor O'Brien/Compilers/Quartic]]

2018-02-26:

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00:19:02 <fizzie> Heh, I have this thing that uses nanopb, and somehow managed to get it built so that the nanopb type definitions are different in different parts of the code.
00:19:05 <fizzie> http://ix.io/Pzt
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01:04:15 <oerjan> eep -16 forecast
01:04:19 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
01:04:19 <lambdabot> ENVA 260050Z 14010KT CAVOK M12/M17 Q1042 RMK WIND 670FT 11011KT
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01:14:29 <oerjan> bhoily
01:15:16 <oerjan> <boily> it's extremely uncommon that I read logs... <-- shocking
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01:17:53 <boily> bonsϿirjan!
01:18:13 <wob_jonas> ais523: just so you know, the IOCCC deadline got extended to 2018-03-15
01:18:23 <wob_jonas> helloily
01:18:30 <boily> wellob_jonas!
01:18:45 <boily> random question: anybody here playing pixel dungeon?
01:19:39 <ais523> wob_jonas: nice to hear
01:19:45 <ais523> I have some ideas but not the time to enact them
01:19:59 <wob_jonas> there's always the next IOCCC
01:20:15 <ais523> I started this back at the /previous/ IOCCC :_P
01:20:16 <ais523> * :-P
01:21:03 <wob_jonas> and I have an idea for an esolang that I should make once. I started inventing it in the summer.
01:21:15 <wob_jonas> a really nice elegant one
01:21:29 <ais523> sounds nice
01:21:33 <ais523> The Waterfall Model is frustrating me
01:21:36 * boily is intrigued by wob_jonas
01:21:38 <ais523> because I'm trying to golf it
01:21:47 <ais523> but it seems to need a lot of waterclocks to get anywhere
01:22:33 <wob_jonas> is that the esolang with the salmons?
01:22:36 <wob_jonas> let me check the wiki
01:22:43 <ais523> no, you're thinking of HOMESPRING
01:22:48 <ais523> it's a new one I wrote
01:22:58 <wob_jonas> ok
01:23:04 <ais523> which is a simplification of several other esolangs I've been working on which were already fairly simple
01:23:22 <ais523> it's been on the wiki for a while now though (a week or so I think)
01:23:42 <ais523> 9 February, so more than a week
01:24:35 <ais523> incidentally, a fun programming problem that almost came up at work: how do you compare two numbers in Java?
01:24:42 <ais523> it is much, much harder than you'd expect
01:25:24 <wob_jonas> ais523: because you have to implement a correct integer vs float comparison, right?
01:26:10 <wob_jonas> ais523: a lot of interpreters mess that up, and it can cause really ugly bugs whenever you're trying to sort an array or have a dictionary or anything like that, even segfaults for some sorting algorithms that assume a consistent comparison
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01:26:47 <ais523> wob_jonas: it's worse, Number in Java can refer to any of the standard numerical types (int, float, long, etc.) or bignums
01:26:55 <ais523> and none of them have comparison routines that work with any of the others
01:27:06 <wob_jonas> sqlite3 used to mess it up so you could cause index corruption and incorrect results (but not segfaults afaik) until I reported it
01:27:14 <ais523> in fact, the only simple way I'm aware of to compare them for equality is to convert them both to strings first
01:27:28 <ais523> and that's restricted to the integral types
01:28:04 <ais523> Integer.valueOf(4).equals(Long.valueOf(4)) will return false, IIRC
01:28:40 <wob_jonas> ais523: do you need the comparison to be as fast as possible, or is something that could be ten times slower acceptible?
01:29:03 <wob_jonas> wait, bignums too? that makes it harder
01:29:08 <wob_jonas> what kind of bignums?
01:29:18 <ais523> it needs to be fast in this context, I fixed it by requiring each number to be stored in the shortest type in which it fit
01:29:20 <wob_jonas> bigint only, or also bigfloats, or something else?
01:29:20 <ais523> and BigInteger
01:29:40 <ais523> apparently X.509 certificate serial numbers are bignums, which surprised me and strikes me as a bad idea
01:29:47 <shachaf> Someone pointed out a bug in the Google Voice Android app recently where if you send an SMS message that can be parsed as a floating point, it'll be parsed and normalized.
01:30:07 <shachaf> So for example "00123" will be sent as "123", and "1.2e6" will be sent as "1200000"
01:30:15 <wob_jonas> ais523: is that perhaps because they're bigger than what fits in a long (which is 64 bits or something)
01:30:17 <wob_jonas> ?
01:30:32 <shachaf> What a bizarre bug in a program designed to send strings from one person to another.
01:30:37 <ais523> wob_jonas: AFAICT the original standards don't specify any maximum value, and use an encoding that can store arbitrarily large values
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01:31:02 <ais523> shachaf: they're probably using some general-purpose serialiser that tries to guess the data type from the string it receives
01:31:13 <wob_jonas> shachaf: ah, is that like when someone types a telephone number into an Excel spreadsheet and it gets interprted as a double and displayed in exponential format?
01:31:13 <ais523> rather than a typed one which knows it's sending strings
01:31:39 <ais523> wob_jonas: that's technically correct, though, string-valued cells in Excel are supposed to start with '
01:31:49 <ais523> but it adds it implicitly if you forget it and the string doesn't look like a number
01:31:52 <ais523> so most people don't bother
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01:34:17 <wob_jonas> ais523: anyway, even comparing an int64 to a float64 correctly is tricky. if you can also have bignums, that's even worse.
01:34:47 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, but there's some version differences, the magics work differently in more recent Excels
01:34:56 <wob_jonas> I don't quite understand how it works now really
01:34:58 <ATMunn> hm
01:35:04 <ATMunn> i kinda want to make an esolang
01:37:07 <wob_jonas> in traditional Excel, if you start with single quote or double you get a string with everything in the formula taken literally, single vs double determines the alignment; if you start with an equals or plus or minus you get a formula; if you start with anything else you get an automatic guess, which is also the tersest way to enter a date.
01:37:47 <wob_jonas> in modern Excel, somehow how the formula is interpreted depends on the number format of the cell, and sometimes neither single quote nor double quote works, and I don't understand how the whole thing is supposed to work in the first place,
01:39:34 <wob_jonas> and also people say that when you import a csv into modern Excel, although you can tell whether it should try to interpret things that look like number or date as such or as a string; you can't tell it not to interpret things that start with an equals sign or plus or minus or at-sign as a formula, so you can't safely import an untrusted csv with Ex
01:39:34 <wob_jonas> cel without preprocessing it
01:39:46 <wob_jonas> which sounds horrible but true
01:39:56 <wob_jonas> I seriously don't understand how any of this thing works anymore
01:40:08 <wob_jonas> Excel used to be simple, there used to be only one brand of it, the MS one, and it worked
01:41:04 <wob_jonas> that's why at some point I made the conjecture that every software keeps improving until version number pi, then it keeps getting worse and worse; I've seen counterexamples since, but Excel isn't one
01:42:13 <ais523> Firefox has kind-of oscillated
01:43:05 <ais523> (also, NetHack 3.4 is better than NetHack 3.2)
01:43:40 <wob_jonas> ais523: that's OK, the first version after pi can be better or worse than the first version after pi
01:44:03 <wob_jonas> it's just starting to go down between the two of them, but you can't observe that if there's no numbered releases
01:45:06 <ais523> well 3.2 and 3.4 are both greater than pi
01:45:28 <wob_jonas> oh right
01:45:30 <wob_jonas> I'm tired
01:45:31 <wob_jonas> sorry
01:45:40 <wob_jonas> then yes, that's one of the many counterexamples
01:46:18 <ais523> I'm not surprised that patterns like this exist though
01:46:46 <wob_jonas> nah, I made that conjecture from entirely too few samples
01:46:54 <ais523> in many projects (at least mine), version 1 is broken but works well enough to be usable, version 2 is very low on bugs but unusable due to being overengineered, version 3 is a compromise, version 4 is vaporware
01:46:58 <wob_jonas> even back then I could have noticed counterexamples
01:47:20 <wob_jonas> hmm... like aimake?
01:47:26 <ais523> aimake is the standard for this pattern
01:47:57 <wob_jonas> ok
01:48:22 <ais523> this unfortunately doesn't bode well for libuncursed2 :-(
01:48:29 <ais523> but I have to write it first to determine why it isn't usable
01:52:15 <ais523> recently, when I've been programming, I've pretty much entirely just been doing my day job
01:52:29 <ais523> I guess I needed a break from hobby programming for a few weeks
01:53:08 <wob_jonas> where the dayjob is still compilers?
01:56:31 <ais523> it's related to language implementation, yes
02:00:13 <shachaf> So I have a slightly better idea of what the "type" of dx in an expression like dy = 3x^2 dx is.
02:04:22 <shachaf> `5 w
02:04:43 <shachaf> :-(
02:04:52 <shachaf> ais523: Were you the person doing substructural types?
02:05:15 <ais523> shachaf: I worked with affine typing, which IIRC is a special case of substructural typing?
02:05:19 <shachaf> Recently I decided that the game semantics interpretation of linear logic is one of the best ones.
02:05:28 <ais523> it was a while back now, I forget the exact definition of "substructural"
02:05:36 <ais523> and yes, game semantics was heavily involved
02:06:20 <shachaf> For affine typing? What were you doing?
02:06:43 <ais523> compiling call-by-name languages to hardware
02:07:08 <ais523> the various moves of the game semantics were encoded as bit patterns on wires
02:07:26 <shachaf> Hmm.
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02:22:28 <wob_jonas> Is there some well-known computation model where a one-tape Turing machine is extended by a disk oracle, so that machine can call for reading or writing a symbol on the disk in a single step if it first writes its address to the tape (so the disk is random access for timing),
02:23:03 <wob_jonas> and the disk is infinitely large, so the address can be arbitrarily long, and has to be delimited by a particular tape symbol (so you have at least three tape symbols: zero, one, delimiter)?
02:23:41 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-access_Turing_machine ?
02:24:33 <wob_jonas> shachaf: nice
02:24:38 <wob_jonas> although that one only reads the disk
02:24:44 <wob_jonas> I definitely want to be able to write the disk too
02:25:00 <shachaf> Oh, true.
02:25:02 <wob_jonas> some of the other details are negotiable, but I need writing
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02:26:20 <wob_jonas> so that the program is able to store an arbitrarily large amount of data on the disk and access it in time only logarithmic in the amount of data stored
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02:27:07 <shachaf> There seem to be other models of random-access Turing machines that include writing.
02:27:15 <shachaf> I don't know whether there's a standard one.
02:27:16 <wob_jonas> I want to use something like this as a reduction to show that my esolang is powerful enough to simluate a RAM machine, or a pointer machine with logarithmic slowdown
02:27:38 <wob_jonas> because I can't simulate a pointer machine directly without using addresses on a disk
02:28:07 <wob_jonas> I prefer pointer machines, but I need an intermediate step like this in this case
02:31:08 <wob_jonas> if there isn't a well-known one, then I'll just define such a model and prove myself that a pointer machine can be reduced to it
02:32:17 <wob_jonas> but I'm hoping there's some well-known RAM model like htis
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02:47:33 <boily> fungot: any idea where the HackEgo is?
02:47:33 <fungot> boily: i don't think so
02:47:39 <boily> dammit.
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02:57:45 <fizzie> @tell boily The system is back up, I think it's just gotten stuck. Yeah, there's a 100%-CPU socat process again. I'll try to give it a kick.
02:57:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:02:22 <oerjan> KickEgo
03:02:42 <fizzie> Hmm. "fopen: Read-only file system"
03:04:22 <fizzie> http://ix.io/PDl that doesn't look terribly good.
03:05:48 <fizzie> I could try restarting it, I guess.
03:06:24 <fizzie> (Of course it's possible it might not come back up.)
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03:11:58 <fizzie> `ping
03:12:08 <HackEgo> pong
03:12:26 <fizzie> There were a few filesystem errors, but I'm sure the files weren't important.
03:12:57 <oerjan> O KAY
03:13:13 <shachaf> `5 w
03:13:20 <HackEgo> 1/2:itidus19//itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly \ cipation//A cipation is an evil scheme that only works if no one is prepared for it. \ russia//Russia is a country so huge it manages to be so near to both Finland and Japan. It used to be part of the Soviet Union before Ronald Reagan destroyed it. \ inverness//Inverness is a ci
03:13:34 <shachaf> `n
03:13:35 <HackEgo> 2/2:ty in Scotland. The ring road isn't multiplicative. \ firefly//FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
03:13:39 <shachaf> oerjan: should `6 x run x five times and then show the second line twh
03:13:58 <oerjan> ntwnh
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03:44:15 <shachaf> `mkx bin/wrjan//\? oerjan
03:44:18 <HackEgo> bin/wrjan
03:44:24 <shachaf> `wrjan
03:44:25 <HackEgo> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
03:44:33 <shachaf> Hm.
03:44:43 <shachaf> `mv bin/wrjan bin/owrjan
03:44:44 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after ‘bin/wrjan bin/owrjan’ \ Try 'mv --help' for more information.
03:44:55 <shachaf> `` mv bin/wrjan bin/owrjan
03:44:57 <HackEgo> No output.
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04:20:36 <zzo38> I have seen they thought computer design is too much complicated so they decided instead to make one from Subleq. I also thought computer design too much complicated and would make a more simpler one, although, mine is different. I would probably to based on a variant of MMIX: PRELD and PREGO and SYNCID and SYNCD is now same as SWYM, LDUNC is now same as LDO, STUNC is now same as STO, and a few instructions are replaced with new ones: LDVTS, PREST
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04:23:16 <zzo38> SYNC may act like SWYM, or possibly, depend on the bits somehow such that if the XYZ value is 0 to 3 it acts like SWYM but otherwise it might not. PREST may be something that writes to those addresses or fakes it, since any existing program that uses PREST will not care what data is there before it writes there again. LDVTS will be some entirely new kind of instruction, nothing to do with virtual memory.
04:24:17 <zzo38> TRAP will still call the operating system, although the mechanism for doing so might differ. Some of the special registers only used by the operating system, as well as rN, may be altered. The other special registers used by user code will remain same as normal MMIX, though.
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04:46:32 <zzo38> (TRIP would still work the same way as normal MMIX, though.)
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05:20:17 <zzo38> One chess variant is "Pole Chess". The Pole moves to any vacant cell, and can neither capture nor be captured. Initially the Pole is not on the board, but can be placed on any vacant cell as a move; it can then teleport on later turns.
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07:56:43 <zzo38> Many old Arabian chess problems have the feature that you have to give check during every turn, which is now a feature of Japanese problems.
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10:19:38 <wob_jonas> zzo38: PREGO being the same as SWYM is a very bad idea. x86 does that for compatibility with the original 386, but it requires a ton of expensive circuits to detect self-modifying code and flush like four different kinds of code caches whenever it happens.
10:20:01 <wob_jonas> seriously, don't do that
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12:20:57 <boily> `5 w
12:21:11 <HackEgo> 1/2:astronomy//Astronomy is the study of stars, such as Julia Child and Gordon Ramsay, typically through long-distance viewing devices. Despite the name, it does not involve the study of the astrointestinal tract. \ `help//`help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wi
12:21:12 <boily> `n
12:21:12 <HackEgo> 2/2:sdom. \ narutoverse//narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus. \ e//e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player. \ web access//Sorry, HackEgo's sandbox currently has no web access. However, see `? `fetch
12:21:37 <boily> @massages-loud
12:21:37 <lambdabot> fizzie said 9h 23m 52s ago: The system is back up, I think it's just gotten stuck. Yeah, there's a 100%-CPU socat process again. I'll try to give it a kick.
12:21:49 * boily rejoices ^^
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12:31:35 <int-e> I thought the 100%-CPU socat bug was fixed (on debian stable which is what lambdabot is on...)
12:36:16 <int-e> @tell fizzie afair, the infinite loop in socat was fixed in socat 1.7.3.0. (the latest version seems to be 1.7.3.1)
12:36:16 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:50:11 <wob_jonas> `ping
13:50:12 <HackEgo> pong
13:50:17 <wob_jonas> `uptime
13:50:18 <HackEgo> ​ 13:50:17 up 0 min,  0 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
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13:51:03 <APic> `pom
13:51:03 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pom: not found
13:51:10 <APic> `ls
13:51:11 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
13:51:15 <APic> `cd bin
13:51:15 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found
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13:51:19 <APic> `ls bin
13:51:20 <HackEgo> ​` \ `` \ `^ \ `̀ \ ^.^ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ ( \ @ \ * \ # \ ؟ \ ⁗ \  \  \  \ welcome \ 1 \ 13 \ 1492 \ 2 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 5w \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ 8ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addscowrevs \ addtodo \ age \ aglist \ airport \ airport-lookup \ allquotes \ analogy \ 
13:51:32 <APic> `3
13:51:33 <HackEgo> 3/1:
13:51:38 <APic> `3 43
13:51:39 <HackEgo> 3/1:
13:51:43 <APic> `2017
13:51:44 <HackEgo> No output.
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15:34:45 <fizzie> int-e: Oh yes, I think we discussed that.
15:35:38 <fizzie> int-e: It's "1.7.2.4+sigfix" on the HackEgo chroot, which I really should update at some point.
15:36:04 <fizzie> int-e: (I think we speculated that the "+sigfix" might've meant backporting that fix, but not sure if I ever investigated really.)
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16:09:45 <esowiki> [[User:Enoua5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54241&oldid=52209 * Enoua5 * (-346) 
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16:20:34 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54242&oldid=54235 * Soaku * (+217) /* Introductions */
16:20:39 <esowiki> [[Pepe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54243 * Soaku * (+519) Created page with "[https://github.com/Soaku/Pepe Pepe] is a programming language inspired by the Pepe meme made by [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/72792/ PPCG user Soaku].  It operate..."
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17:31:14 <zzo38> If there are no code caches then it is the same. If you do have code caches then obviously it is not the same.
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17:42:33 <zzo38> (That is what I mean)
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18:06:19 <zseri> zsync error: failed to retrieve from https://esolangs.org/dump/esolang.xml.gz
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20:14:00 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Robgero *  New user account
20:18:11 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54244&oldid=54242 * Robgero * (+188) /* Introductions */
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20:27:08 <fizzie> @tell zseri Hmm, that's not very informative as far as errors go. But it might be some sort of a HTTPS issue.
20:27:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:29:22 <fizzie> Judging from http://ix.io/PWl
20:30:26 <fizzie> Not sure what's up with that, wget/curl have no problems downloading from the HTTPS path.
20:36:34 <esowiki> [[The Code of the Seven]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54245 * Robgero * (+935) Created page with "Before computers, the Gods were speaking code. Code that not even Three-Eyed Raven could understand. They called it the code of the seven. However, thankfully, after her untim..."
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20:46:35 <esowiki> [[The Code of the Seven]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54246&oldid=54245 * Robgero * (+50) 
20:58:50 <esowiki> [[The Code of the Seven]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54247&oldid=54246 * Robgero * (+137) 
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22:47:50 <boily> `5 w
22:48:09 <boily> ...
22:48:16 <boily> ...?
22:48:44 * boily kicks HackEgo
22:50:57 <int-e> @metar lowi
22:50:57 <lambdabot> LOWI 262220Z AUTO 07003KT 360V130 9999 FEW050 BKN060 M10/M17 Q1014
22:51:19 <boily> M10?
22:51:27 <boily> isn't it unusually cold?
22:51:55 <int-e> yeah, it's been a topic in the news
22:52:11 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
22:52:12 <lambdabot> KOAK 262153Z 28017KT 10SM FEW020 12/04 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP138 T01170044
22:52:18 <shachaf> so cold :'(
22:52:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Darkness3840 *  New user account
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22:53:13 <int-e> Germany too. https://www.thelocal.de/20180221/cold-snap-lows-of-20c-set-to-hit-germany-at-weekend
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22:53:43 <int-e> "The reason for the cold snap is that a strong current from the north and northeast is on its way, bringing with it bitterly cold air from Finland, Sweden and Russia."
22:54:02 <int-e> (But not Norway? Funny.)
22:54:12 <boily> @metar EGLL
22:54:12 <lambdabot> EGLL 262220Z AUTO 04007KT 010V070 9999 FEW029 M02/M06 Q1029
22:54:15 <boily> @metar ENVA
22:54:15 <lambdabot> ENVA 262220Z 12010KT CAVOK M14/M18 Q1046 RMK WIND 670FT 10012KT
22:55:25 <shachaf> @metar EFHK
22:55:36 <lambdabot> EFHK 262250Z 04015KT 9999 FEW028 BKN055 M16/M20 Q1037 NOSIG
22:55:45 <shachaf> bitter indeed
22:55:58 <shachaf> bitter uhww
22:56:00 <shachaf> er
22:56:02 <shachaf> @metar uhww
22:56:03 <lambdabot> UHWW 262230Z 32003MPS 4300 -SHSN BKN026CB M13/M17 Q1026 R25L/0///70 NOSIG RMK QFE768
23:02:40 <fizzie> News here: "Temperatures of minus 5C (23F) over the weekend were the lowest recorded in the week leading up to 1 March, the first day of spring, since 1986."
23:02:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:02:47 <fizzie> "The wind chill, which could make parts of the UK feel as cold as minus 15C (5F), will create temperatures that rival the forecast for parts of northern Norway and Iceland."
23:02:56 <fizzie> They're making a big deal out of it.
23:03:32 <fizzie> (Also there were a few snowflakes in the air today. And probably more coming tomorrow.)
23:04:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:04:21 <fizzie> "Heavy snow and freezing conditions are expected along the east coast of the UK and south-east England, causing disruption on the roads, railways and in the air, as the “beast from the east” envelops the British Isles."
23:05:26 <int-e> beast from the east... let me guess... this alludes to the cold war.
23:05:29 <int-e> :P
23:05:51 -!- laerling has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:06:09 <int-e> (way too obvious pun)
23:07:47 <fizzie> Apparently it's either a Russian "politician and former professional boxer", or "a live album recorded by the American heavy metal band Dokken in Japan in April 1988".
23:08:26 -!- HackEgo has joined.
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23:13:57 <shachaf> `5 w
23:14:31 <HackEgo> 1/2:beethoven's ninth symphony//Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files. \ drone//Drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times. \ mark//A mark of one's destiny singled out alone, fulfilled. \ ping//Ping is a Peking Duck
23:15:25 <shachaf> `n
23:15:26 <HackEgo> 2/2:H4XX0R who amuses himself by making people's IRC connections timeout. \ bicyclic monoid//The bicyclic monoid is the free monoid generated by two wheels of a bicycle, quotiented by the restriction that the bicycle itself is equal to the identity.
23:16:03 <shachaf> `cwlprits bicyclic monoid
23:16:15 <HackEgo> shachäf
23:16:20 <shachaf> what!
23:17:05 <boily> that's possible?
23:18:42 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
23:18:58 <shachaf> `5
23:19:01 <HackEgo> 1/2:744) <oklopol> Gregor: i watched the first episode of MLP [...] <oklopol> Gregor: it wasn't bad, but there was very little sex and violence \ 933) <Taneb> I'm a story about the prohibition of chocolate \ 1125) <fizzie> Every time I end up on an audiophile web-crawl I get this feeling maybe we should just get rid of ears in general. \ 1169) <ell
23:19:04 <shachaf> `n
23:19:05 <HackEgo> 2/2:iott_> you win this round.  <elliott_> your prize is hosting the wiki  <fizzie> I don't like this game show. \ 1235) <rdococ> what? I just wanted a laugh... lol  <rdococ> I need to stop using lol, lol  <olsner> just stop then, hth
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23:27:37 <wob_jonas> I was testing what happens if I plug together various mobile phones or other small devices into various chargers or the computer with various USB cables, to figure out which combinations let the phone or small device charge, and which ones allow data communication with the computer.
23:27:56 <wob_jonas> After like ten minutes I realized the switch on the power strip was off, which is why most of the combos weren't working.
23:29:49 <wob_jonas> It's not trivial to notice because my primary phone doesn't charge from USB at all, it can only be charged with its round plug charger.
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23:40:45 <boily> wellob_jonas. round plug?
23:41:39 <fizzie> I think the proper word is "coaxial power connector".
23:42:04 <boily> wob_jonas has a BNC plug on his phone???
23:42:37 <wob_jonas> yes, what fizzie says. boily: no
23:42:46 <wob_jonas> boily: a much thinner coaxial plug
23:43:19 <fizzie> "A coaxial power connector is an electrical power connector used for attaching extra-low voltage devices such as consumer electronics to external electricity. Also known as barrel connectors, concentric barrel connectors or tip connectors, these small cylindrical connectors come in an enormous variety of sizes."
23:43:27 <fizzie> As it says, there's an enormous variety of sizes.
23:43:50 <wob_jonas> you know, one of these thin DC coax plugs where the male side is on where the power is supplied, one connector is inside, the other is outside a cylinder
23:44:32 <wob_jonas> 5 V voltage
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2018-02-27:

00:07:33 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:22:29 <wob_jonas> not again!
00:22:50 <wob_jonas> HackEgo! fizzie!
00:23:36 <wob_jonas> fungot, bring HackEgo back
00:23:36 <fungot> wob_jonas: what's xps? a transformation language for xml transformation? i'm leaning towards drawing the line at using call/ cc. :p
00:26:51 <fizzie> This time it has just failed to autojoin.
00:27:13 -!- HackEgo has joined.
00:27:16 <fizzie> There.
00:27:28 <shachaf> `owrjan
00:27:29 <HackEgo> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
00:27:37 <shachaf> `5 w
00:27:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:yeti//These are not the yetis you are looking for. \ advertisement//Advertisement starts: have you heard about this hip and froopy 'net place called #esoteric? It is on freenode. Brought to you by The Board of Timeskewed Advertiesements. \ tvtrope//We'll write about TVTropes here, we just have to finish these tabs first. \ mad//This wis
00:27:44 <shachaf> `n
00:27:45 <HackEgo> 2/2:dom entry was censored for being too accurate. \ stibia//Stibia is a spice that grows in your leg.
00:30:21 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -e warn 50/6
00:30:22 <HackEgo> Warning: something's wrong at -e line 1.
00:30:28 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -e 'warn 50/6'
00:30:29 <HackEgo> 8.33333333333333 at -e line 1.
00:32:45 <wob_jonas> [ 50%6
00:32:46 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 8.33333
00:32:57 <wob_jonas> [ (%6)*50
00:32:58 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 8.33333
00:33:02 <wob_jonas> [ 6%~50
00:33:03 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 8.33333
00:34:43 <wob_jonas> `recipe
00:34:44 <HackEgo> ​ chocolate over the batter. Place on a lightly floured board in \  a bowl. Add the remaining ingredients in boiling water to combine. \  Cover and bake until the roasted to the boil. Stir in the cream \  of the liquid and spread with peanut oil in a small bowl. Pour into \  serving plate. Then, for a baking sheet and allow to cool. \   \  Prehea
00:34:49 <wob_jonas> `starwars 7
00:34:50 <HackEgo> the Sarlacc \ Admiral Firmus Piett \ Ponda Baba \ Conan Antonio Motti \ Shmi \ Grievous \ Chewbacca
00:34:58 <shachaf> `1 recipe
00:34:59 <HackEgo> 1/3:g spinach in slices of completely. Combine \  mixture and salt in a warm place until it begins to cool for \  the heat and add the eggs to the egg mixture, add the spices \  and garlic to deep fryger plastic crumbs. With a sharp, if you like one fat \  from the heat and add the prepared pastry flour, cheese, and coriander \  to the pot; stir th
00:35:55 <wob_jonas> deep fryger plastic crumbs?
00:38:09 <wob_jonas> in a warm place until it begins to cool for the heat
00:38:43 <fizzie> fungot: Could you learn to make recipes too? 
00:38:43 <fungot> fizzie: ( fnord encoding file proc if-existent? if-non-existent? fnord)
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01:05:25 <wob_jonas> `rm -v wisdom/stibia
01:05:25 <HackEgo> rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'rm --help' for more information.
01:05:28 <wob_jonas> `dowg stibia
01:05:33 <wob_jonas> ``` rm -v wisdom/stibia
01:05:43 <HackEgo> 7411:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn Stibia is a spice that grows in your leg.
01:05:44 <HackEgo> removed 'wisdom/stibia'
01:06:02 <shachaf> wob_jonas: forget hth
01:06:21 <wob_jonas> shachaf: ah right. I forgot.
01:28:24 <wob_jonas> Oh, another question.
01:29:00 <wob_jonas> If you write an integer in binary, which means radix 2, you can call each digit a "bit". If you write an integer in ternary, which means radix 3, you can call each digit a "trit".
01:29:30 <wob_jonas> If I write an integer in radix 5, which you told me is called quinary, then what should I call a digit?
01:30:27 <shachaf> i'd tell you to just choose one word for base n
01:30:32 <shachaf> but that would be nitpicking
01:30:49 <wob_jonas> shachaf: like "digit"?
01:31:14 <wob_jonas> wait, let me check the C-intercal manual
01:31:27 <wob_jonas> maybe it tells something in the trintercal section
01:31:58 <shachaf> (i'm going for the swat hth)
01:33:39 <wob_jonas> it says
01:33:48 <wob_jonas> "The small data types hold 16 bits, 10 trits, 8 quarts, 6 quints, 6 sexts, or 5 septs, and the large types are always twice this size."
01:33:58 <wob_jonas> so the word I want is a "quint"
01:34:08 <fizzie> I don't think there's any special words for octal or hexadecimal digits either, and those are a lot more popular than quinary.
01:34:40 <wob_jonas> fizzie: some call hexadecimal digits "hexits". I use that word sometimes, although I admit it's a stupid one
01:34:49 <wob_jonas> there's also "nybble"
01:34:59 <wob_jonas> or maybe it's "nibble"? let me look it up
01:35:05 <fizzie> I was going to mention nibble/nybble.
01:35:21 <shachaf> oh man, do finns pronounce "nybble" with the finnish y?
01:35:24 <fizzie> But it really "feels" more like a four-bit group than a hexadecimal digit.
01:35:44 <wob_jonas> nybble with a "y" in English
01:35:53 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, that makes sense
01:35:55 <shachaf> `` echo | sha256sum
01:35:55 <HackEgo> 01ba4719c80b6fe911b091a7c05124b64eeece964e09c058ef8f9805daca546b  -
01:36:09 <wob_jonas> which is why a hexit is a different word
01:36:19 <wob_jonas> but then you'd have to call decimal digits "decits" or something
01:36:31 <shachaf> I would call each aligned character pair there a "byte" and each character a "nybble".
01:36:52 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_information#Dibit has a bunch of names for various groups of bits.
01:36:55 <wob_jonas> or call a base ten digit a "tent" (and a quinary digit a "quit" obviously)
01:37:17 <fizzie> "2 bits: dibit,[12][13][10][14] crumb,[15] quad, quarter, taste, tayste, tidbit, tydbit, lick, lyck, semi-nibble."
01:38:14 <shachaf> how about "nucleobase" hth
01:38:40 <fizzie> "96 bits: bentobox" the food thing has gotten out of hand
01:38:45 <wob_jonas> fizzie: meh, anything beats the Intel terminology of "double quadword" and "quadruple quadword" for 16 and 32 byte long chunks
01:40:15 <wob_jonas> and they put those things in instruction mnemonics, and the word "double" is also used for 8-byte IEEE floats in instruction mnemonics
01:40:18 <wob_jonas> it's horrible
01:41:16 <wob_jonas> and then of course there's all the people who use "long" to mean either a 4-byte chunk or an 8-byte chunk
01:41:25 <shachaf> quidruple is a nickname for £4
01:42:35 <shachaf> Unlike quidruble, which is a square unit corresponding to £ £*₽
01:43:31 <shachaf> Squared currency units aren't used very often, though there's a product called Square Cash which presumably uses them.
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01:47:00 <fizzie> shachaf: I guess startup accelerators are maybe measured in products / money squared? 
01:51:28 <wob_jonas> fungot, are you a startup accelerator?
01:51:28 <fungot> wob_jonas: actually, rather... widget type. the occurs check constrains that problem, then the syntactic-closure doesn't know about.
01:52:02 <wob_jonas> nah, you don't need an occurs check, the investors don't care about semantic soundness of the plan
01:52:07 * oerjan looks at Warrigal's idling score
01:52:28 <wob_jonas> as long as there's enough hype, the plan might as well be circular
01:52:37 <shachaf> fizzie++
01:52:44 <shachaf> I frequently see people write things like "$5 dollars" so I guess it's not that uncommon a unit.
01:53:51 <esowiki> [[Quantum brainfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54248&oldid=8552 * Oerjan * (+26) /* External resources */ R.I.P. and not on Wayback
01:56:30 <fizzie> oerjan: They're in the archive.
01:56:34 <fizzie> oerjan: https://github.com/graue/esofiles/tree/master/qbf/impl
01:56:52 <shachaf> @metar ENVA
01:56:53 <lambdabot> ENVA 270150Z 06003KT 010V110 CAVOK M10/M16 Q1047 RMK WIND 670FT 09006KT
01:57:33 <shachaf> If I measure the tempperature at an airport myself, would that count as metarial nonpublic information?
01:58:22 <oerjan> fizzie: ooh
02:04:38 <esowiki> [[Quantum brainfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54249&oldid=54248 * Oerjan * (+42) /* External resources */ Was in the archive, thanks fizzie
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02:17:16 <wob_jonas> Is there a name for the human movement whose purpose is to get on or over an obstacle that's taller than your waist, and whose procedure is to do a jump starting from squatting position, while your hand is on the obstacle and you're pushing yourself up with your arm to jump higher, the goal being to get your foot or knee or upper body on the obstac
02:17:16 <wob_jonas> le and climb up from there?
02:17:49 <wob_jonas> You're facing the obstacle.
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02:23:08 <wob_jonas> `? lie group
02:23:09 <HackEgo> lie group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:23:17 <wob_jonas> ``` echo wisdom/lie*
02:23:19 <HackEgo> wisdom/lie wisdom/lie algebra wisdom/lie bracket
02:23:22 <wob_jonas> `? lie algebra
02:23:24 <HackEgo> A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size.
02:23:24 <wob_jonas> `? lie bracket
02:23:25 <wob_jonas> `? lie
02:23:26 <HackEgo> Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them.
02:23:27 <HackEgo> Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
02:24:08 <wob_jonas> right. "wisdom/lie algebra" is clearly mine, the other two aren't
02:24:17 <wob_jonas> `dowg lie
02:24:26 <HackEgo> 2981:2013-05-29 <oerjän> echo "Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups." >wisdom/lie
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02:56:25 <oerjan> `dowg lie algebra
02:56:32 <HackEgo> 6173:2015-11-02 <oerjän> le/rn lie algebra/A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size.
02:56:38 <oerjan> I BEG TO DIFFER
02:57:23 <oerjan> `` rm -v bin/*rjan
02:57:25 <HackEgo> removed ‘bin/dowrjan’ \ removed ‘bin/owrjan’ \ removed ‘bin/quoerjan’ \ removed ‘bin/quørjan’ \ removed ‘bin/swrjan’ \ removed ‘bin/translatetoerjan’ \ removed ‘bin/zalgoerjan’
02:57:44 <oerjan> was getting out of hand.
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17:44:42 <ais523> does anyone have advice for me about what syntaxes would be good for distinguishing keywords from variables?
17:44:48 <ais523> case? sigils? if so, what?
17:45:00 <ais523> this is for an esolang so I'm willing to be experimental, but I'd like the result to be easy to read and easy to type
17:47:56 <Slereah> just use one of the Symbols Rarely Used For Anything
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17:48:52 <APic> ais523: /me does not even know what „Sigil“ means, so: Case, yes.
17:49:00 <APic> From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
17:49:00 <APic>   Sigil \Sig"il\, n. [L. sigillum. See {Seal} a stamp.]
17:49:00 <APic>      A seal; a signature. --Dryden.
17:49:00 <APic>      [1913 Webster]
17:49:00 <APic>   
17:49:03 <APic>            Of talismans and sigils knew the power.  --Pope.
17:49:05 <APic>      [1913 Webster]
17:49:11 <APic> No Idea what that would be in Unicode
17:49:20 <APic> Or even plain ASCII, for that Matter.
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17:50:05 <ais523> APic: a sigil is basically a punctuation mark that's part of the spelling of an identifier
17:50:17 <ais523> such as the $ before variable names in PHP and BuzzFizz
17:50:38 <ais523> Algol used a sigil on keywords instead (typically .)
17:51:04 <APic> Aaaah
17:51:11 <APic> Then that would be better than Case
17:51:23 <APic> Just because CamelCase sucks badly
17:51:35 <APic> My Momma once gave me Camel-Milk-Soap
17:51:47 <APic> That one even smelt worse than normal Soap 😉
17:52:18 <APic> Even forgot where she got it. Must have been some Holiday-Trip
17:52:32 <APic> In some southern State
17:58:57 <APic> ,o0(But the best Soap must be human Soap like from the Fight-Clubs…  😉)
17:59:14 <APic> ,o0(„We are selling their own Asses back to them!“)
18:00:18 <ais523> APic: if I'm using case, what case should be used for variables and what case for keywords
18:00:57 <ais523> the only languages I've seen that have an idiomatic distinction have been BASIC variants
18:01:03 <APic> Yup
18:01:05 <ais523> which use lowercase for variables and typically some sort of capitalisation for keywords
18:01:17 <ais523> (older BASICs in allcaps, newer BASICs in initcapas)
18:01:21 <APic> So _i_ would use Uppercase for KEYWORDS and lowercase for Variables.
18:04:46 <ais523> hmm, thinking about it, I'm leaning towards sigilling keywords, as most of the contexts where you'd use keyword you can use punctuation instead
18:05:02 <ais523> the common choices for that are @ and \ (sometimes interchangeably!)
18:05:07 <ais523> but @ seems better
18:05:45 <ais523> (C has an interesting way to do keywords _Which_Looks_Like_This but that's because it suddenly realised it needed to have namespaced the keywords all along and there weren't many namespaces left)
18:08:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
18:11:16 * APic loves C
18:11:36 -!- augur has joined.
18:11:39 * APic gotta look in the current IOCCCs some Time
18:11:44 <APic> Hi augur 
18:12:07 <ais523> apparently the development version of C is considering using [[this]] syntax
18:12:16 <ais523> for a pragma/attribute-style thing
18:14:23 <APic> Nice
18:14:47 <APic> As long as Borland's #pragma will not become standard...
18:15:13 * APic remembers that Turbo C did Preprocessing and Compiling in one Pass. Is that Memory correct?
18:16:03 <ais523> I think it's possible to implement that, I'm not sure if it was actually done like that but it's plausible
18:17:43 <APic> Good
18:18:16 * APic thinks that is because Borland or later Inprise actually got the Idea to implement their Pragmas with a Preprocessing-Directive
18:19:38 <APic> s/because/why/
18:21:12 <APic> Every GNU-Extension that makes it in a Standard i adore
18:21:31 <APic> Every MSVC-Extension i despise
18:21:34 <APic> 😉
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18:29:25 <\oren\_> I like the idea of sigilling keywords and using as little puntuation as possible
18:29:40 <ais523> what sigil would you use?
18:29:45 <ais523> note that this is basically TeX
18:29:46 <\oren\_> `
18:29:58 <\oren\_> or ;
18:29:58 <ais523> or, well, with ` it isn't TeX but \ is visually similar
18:30:14 <ais523> is the ; prefix, postfix, or circumfix?
18:30:37 <\oren\_> a symbol you have to type a lot should be one of the symbols you can type without using shift
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18:30:58 <ais523> maybe that's why Algol used .
18:30:59 <\oren\_> ;',./[]\-=`
18:31:17 <ais523> …and why TeX used \, although it's in a bit of an awkward place on a UK keyboard
18:31:34 <ais523> (even worse on a US keyboard though, if I remember where it is correctly)
18:31:42 <ais523> maybe the sigil should be a letter, then
18:31:45 <\oren\_> ais523: right bove enter
18:32:01 <ais523> which becomes forbidden at the start of variable names
18:32:08 <\oren\_> ais523: q
18:32:15 <ais523> don't order-pp and chaos-pp use 8 as a sigil?
18:32:24 <\oren\_> ais523: yeah
18:32:27 <ais523> (which works well because it's not valid at the start of an identifier in regular C)
18:33:16 <ais523> I can see the argument for using ; as a sigil because it's literally one of the keys you rest your fingers on when in the standard typing position
18:33:25 <ais523> but on the other hand, it'd look bizarre
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18:33:45 <\oren\_> I wounder if you could scientifically check which letter is rarest at start of variable names
18:33:58 <\oren\_> by surveying github or something
18:34:31 <ais523> well, it'd be hard to come up with a lot of keywords that legitimately start with that letter, though
18:34:45 <ais523> I'm guessing q, though, because most of the other rare letters (j, x, z) tend to be used as single-letter variable names
18:34:52 <ais523> q can be but that's rarer
18:35:07 <APic> Nowadays, i would probably use €
18:35:22 <\oren\_> qif x = 4 qthen qforeach
18:35:27 <APic> Because € is moar worth than $ nowadays  😉
18:35:50 <APic> 1 Euro equals
18:35:51 <APic> 1.22 US Dollar
18:35:56 <APic> Says the almighty Google.
18:36:00 <APic> \o/
18:36:35 <APic> When Trump would manage to start a War (— which he cannot, in my Opinion), € would probably be even worthier.  ☺
18:36:35 <\oren\_> qwhile is almost pronounceable
18:36:41 <APic> s/When/If/
18:36:49 <APic> \oren\_: *nod*
18:37:46 <\oren\_> but you would have to have a starndard way to avoid q at start of words
18:38:16 <\oren\_> qmy aquestion =
18:38:33 * ais523 ponders whether @ is easier to type as Shift-' (on a UK keyboard) or Shift-2 (on a US keyboard)
18:38:53 <ais523> \oren\_: now you need an escape for "aq" too
18:39:07 <\oren\_> alaqsa
18:39:29 <\oren\_> aqsa is the only word I can think of that starts with aq
18:39:33 <APic> esbele?
18:39:55 <APic> Oh
18:39:56 <APic> Sorry
18:39:58 <APic> Wrong Window
18:40:13 <APic> In #WorldChat@IRCnet i just learned that „yw“ is „mh“ upside-down
18:40:29 * APic is so used to Serifes that i had not realized until a few Moments ago
18:40:30 <ais523> h and y look fairly different in most fonts, even if you rotate one 180°
18:40:46 <APic> So i tried putting „alqsa“ upside-down  😸
18:40:53 <\oren\_> APic: there is an upside down y that is better
18:40:54 <APic> Yup
18:40:59 * APic likes Terminus best
18:41:04 <APic> Inconsolata second-best
18:41:22 <APic> \oren\_: v?
18:41:30 <APic> Uh
18:41:36 <\oren\_> ɦ
18:41:41 <APic> h
18:41:44 <APic> Uh
18:41:44 <APic> Darn
18:42:34 <\oren\_> I still haven't verified that all characters in my font are distinct
18:43:12 <\oren\_> not sure how to do it efficiently either
18:43:19 <APic> *shrug*
18:43:34 <\oren\_> I guess by sorting them?
18:43:44 <APic> Probably
18:44:00 <APic> Chinese Letters are sorted by Count of Marks, i learned.
18:44:06 * APic hopes that Information is correct.
18:44:24 <\oren\_> yeah stroke order
18:44:29 * APic never had a Chinese←→whatever-Dictionary in my Hands
18:44:31 <APic> Good
18:45:15 <\oren\_> APic: I have a kanji dictionary. it sorts first by radical (which are ordered by stroke number) and then again by stroke number
18:45:51 <APic> ic
18:45:53 <APic> Thanks
18:47:56 <\oren\_> I do have l distinct from ⅼ
18:48:14 <\oren\_> and from 1I|
18:50:03 <\oren\_> ℐ𝓁𝑙𝑙𝗅𝒍𝗹𝘭𝕝𝐥𝔩
18:50:35 <\oren\_> I think thats all the ells
18:51:47 <\oren\_> I need to write some sort of character sorting program
18:58:14 <APic> Definitely.
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19:42:17 <wob_jonas> ais523: for keywords vs identifiers, I mostly recommend using punctuation for most syntax, fixing a short list of bare keywords, make sure each of them is common enough as a keyword that nobody forgets about it, and add a trailing hash mark to all rare keywords and all keywords you introduce in later extensions.
19:43:22 <ais523> I'd prefer all keywords to work consistently
19:43:36 <ais523> especially as I'm planning to have "key variables" which are like variables but have side effects
19:43:46 <ais523> and want those to work the same way syntactically
19:44:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: another choice is if you can make the syntax of the language such that the user can shadow any keyword with a declaration, but firstly it's very hard to make such a syntax (metafont and scheme are about the only languages that succeed,
19:44:39 <ais523> scheme doesn't let you shadow ( and )
19:44:52 <wob_jonas> and in metafont this can cause horrible screwups when you make a typo in a declaration, mostly because you can shadow almost all punctuation tokens too), constrains future syntax, and worst of all, modules/headers you import can shadow a keyword for you and your program might not know.
19:44:54 * ais523 ponders what the minimum number of keywords a lisp-alike can get away with is
19:45:19 <ais523> I guess just s and k
19:45:35 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, I mean make all non-punctuation keywords shadowable, and make no punctuation shadowable, so all punctuation are always built-in syntax.
19:46:24 <wob_jonas> '"key variables" which are like variables but have side effects' => we call those macros
19:46:31 <wob_jonas> (or sometimes sparks)
19:46:49 <ais523> it's very different from a macro
19:46:53 <ais523> more like a memory-mapped volatile thing
19:47:17 <ais523> although, it's not really like either
19:47:38 <wob_jonas> ais523: um, so you mean variables that don't have syntax side effects, they follow ordinary syntax, but have arbitrary getter and setter functions?
19:47:43 <ais523> you can do things like object.exists = false (where exists is a key variable) and the object stops existing
19:47:53 <ais523> well, except that there are no booleans so you'd set it to 0
19:48:07 <wob_jonas> uh... what do you mean by "stops existing"
19:48:21 <ais523> it gets deleted
19:48:32 <ais523> like free() in C
19:48:42 <ais523> this is an esolang, it's got rather esoteric ways of thinking about things
19:50:16 <APic> *nod*
19:50:55 <wob_jonas> I have some language design questions too, I'll ask a bit later, but first I have to do some real world stuff
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19:52:40 <Taneb> What if you set it to 2, I wonder
19:54:45 <\oren\_> Taneb: it becomes an array
19:55:03 <Taneb> I see
19:55:20 <int-e> cat.exists=9?
19:56:05 <APic> Good old Cats
19:56:09 <APic> 😸
19:56:41 <int-e> speaking of strange thinking... http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/God#Final_Proof_of_the_Non-Existence_of_God
19:57:20 <APic> Good old Puffs of Logics 😉
20:02:54 <int-e> `unidecode 😸😉
20:05:34 <int-e> U+1F638 GRINNING CAT FACE WITH SMILING EYES U+1F609 WINKING FACE
20:05:38 <APic> Yup
20:05:53 <int-e> `thanks HackEgo
20:06:08 <int-e> Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo.
20:06:11 <APic> `unidecode 🙌
20:06:23 -!- HackEgo has joined.
20:06:25 <APic> wb HackEgo 
20:06:39 <int-e> U+1F64C PERSON RAISING BOTH HANDS IN CELEBRATION
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21:32:06 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54250&oldid=54126 * DMC * (+106) 
21:36:13 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54251&oldid=54160 * DMC * (+34) 
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22:40:33 <shachaf> `5 w
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22:47:23 <fizzie> Not been very stable lately.
22:47:45 <fizzie> Let's see what's wrong now.
22:48:21 <fizzie> http://ix.io/Qpa <- that's wrong
22:49:28 <fizzie> When it remounts the filesystem as read-only due to errors, HackEgo stops working; I forget exactly why.
22:51:24 <fizzie> I shall "fix" it by restarting, but that thing's really dying.
22:52:16 -!- HackEgo has joined.
22:52:41 <fizzie> `` 5 w  # LET'S TRY THAT AGAIN
22:52:56 <HackEgo> 1/1:modal logic//"modal logic" means "the most common logic" (that is, classical logic). \ phrel//Phrel is a swear word rdocscovered in 2018. It refers to a fluid that holds seeds. \ detonation//Detonation is the act of destroying a musical instrument. \ alise//elliott's not hiding over here \ c#//C Pound is Java's good twin.
22:53:22 <fizzie> That wasn't too wise.
23:01:26 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:04:15 -!- boily has joined.
23:04:53 <shachaf> fizzie: tdnh
23:06:15 -!- laerling has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:08:55 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:08:56 <lambdabot> CYUL 272300Z 21009KT 15SM FEW090 BKN120 06/M02 A3002 RMK AC2AS5 SLP169
23:09:02 <boily> warm warm warm ^^♪
23:09:20 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
23:09:21 <lambdabot> KOAK 272253Z 21008KT 10SM FEW200 13/M03 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP173 T01281033
23:09:54 -!- augur has joined.
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23:15:12 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
23:15:12 <lambdabot> EGLL 272250Z AUTO 01004KT 350V050 9999 NCD M04/M07 Q1020 NOSIG
23:15:17 <fizzie> BEAST FROM THE EAST
23:15:26 <fizzie> Followed by the PEST FROM THE WEST.
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23:16:45 <fizzie> Not sure how long that'll survive.
23:17:14 <shachaf> `dowg modal logic
23:17:21 <fizzie> ((It didn't fail to IO error this time, it failed to "INFO: task multibot:939 blocked for more than 120 seconds", and then the autorejoin didn't work.)
23:17:23 <HackEgo> 8486:2016-06-16 <shachäf> le/rn modal logic/"modal logic" means "the most common logic" (that is, classical logic).
23:17:28 <shachaf> what!
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23:23:37 <wob_jonas> fizzie: it remounts the file system as read only? do you have the kernel logs? is it logical file system errors, or IO errors of the underlying disk?
23:24:11 <wob_jonas> fizzie: and how many times have this happened within the last two years?
23:24:46 <fizzie> wob_jonas: http://ix.io/Qpa
23:25:15 <fizzie> It's a recent development.
23:25:28 <fizzie> Presumably CaC shunted the instance to a bad host.
23:26:39 <fizzie> (I've no idea what their block device layer is based on.)
23:33:04 <boily> fizziello. does CaC have _any_ good host?
23:33:40 <fizzie> boily: I guess s/bad/worse/
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23:44:45 <wob_jonas> fizzie: ouch
23:44:58 <wob_jonas> so IO errors
23:57:31 <int-e> not sure about the precise error, but that's what my CaC used to be like all the time... an I/O error leading to a r/o remount a month, later every two weeks
23:58:20 <wob_jonas> ouch
23:58:25 <wob_jonas> that's really bad

2018-02-28:

00:00:39 <int-e> It was kind of fun in my case, I never put anything critical on there.
00:01:09 <int-e> (Since I basically got the VM to see how bad it could be... I almost got my money worth of entertainment ;-) )
00:01:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:01:35 <int-e> But it's a pity that it now affects HackEgo as well.
00:02:05 <shachaf> i,i clodatcost
00:08:44 <fizzie> HackEgo's been relatively lucky in the CaC roulette this far.
00:09:05 <fizzie> I could imagine running an instance on the current wiki host, it would just take a bit of setting-up.
00:09:18 <shachaf> What's the current wiki host?
00:09:40 <fizzie> https://www.bytemark.co.uk/
00:10:20 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
00:10:22 <shachaf> https://cloud.google.com/billing/docs/resources/vat-overview
00:10:35 <shachaf> Can individual EU customers use Google Cloud now?
00:10:47 <fizzie> Huh, that's sort of what it sounds like.
00:11:13 <fizzie> That must be pretty recent, it's not too many moons since I last checked.
00:11:18 <shachaf> Last updated January 10, 2018
00:11:57 <fizzie> I should look if we still have that free employee Cloud credit thing going on.
00:12:45 <shachaf> `5 w
00:12:50 <HackEgo> 1/2:xargs//xargs is for piping snowmen. \ the neverending work//The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time. \ things boily likes//Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. And kimchi. Or poutine. Moreover, cubes. \ browser//A browser is a Gopher client for con
00:12:59 <shachaf> `n
00:12:59 <HackEgo> 2/2:venient access to Gopher services and documents. \ tea//Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
00:13:16 <shachaf> `? cube
00:13:17 <HackEgo> Cubes come in all sizes, colors, and materials, but only one shape. The companion cube does not speak, however.
00:13:38 <shachaf> `slwd cube//s/\..*/./
00:13:41 <HackEgo> cube//Cubes come in all sizes, colors, and materials, but only one shape.
00:14:34 <fizzie> Is it true what they say, that all cubes are just different reflections of the same primary cube? 
00:15:13 <shachaf> I think that's the moral of Spellbreaker.
00:15:42 <shachaf> `? time cube
00:15:43 <HackEgo> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t
00:15:52 <shachaf> `2 \? time cube
00:15:53 <HackEgo> 2/1:
00:26:08 <wob_jonas> fizzie: no, they're scaled and shifted reflections
00:26:17 <wob_jonas> um actually
00:26:23 <wob_jonas> they're scaled or shifted reflections
00:26:25 <wob_jonas> or something like that
00:27:00 <boily> . o O ( I think I like food a lot... )
00:29:01 <wob_jonas> perhaps I should make HackEgo list all the jonas-wisdoms, read them all with a critical view, and delete even more
00:29:07 <wob_jonas> if only I knew how hg works
00:30:25 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep b_jonas
00:30:32 <HackEgo> 10986:2017-06-02 <wob_jonäs> `` echo >> wisdom/b_jonas\\ can\\\'t\\ spell \ 10883:2017-05-10 <wob_jonäs> `` perl -we \'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(jealous;)/$1 and confuses:/;if(1){open$O,">",$ARGV[0];print$O $s or die;close$O or die;}print$s;\' "wisdom/b_jonas can\'t spell" \ 10882:2017-05-10 <wob_jonäs> `` perl -we \'op
00:32:24 <shachaf> oerjan: I think cubes exist in different shapes in different dimensions.
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00:35:26 <shachaf> `5 w
00:35:31 <HackEgo> 1/3:hello//hello hello hello, what's all this then? \ wisest human//Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are t
00:35:41 <shachaf> `n
00:35:42 <HackEgo> 2/3:eaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA. \ elrond//Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves. \ loudly//Did you mean: loudly \ functor//Functors are morphisms
00:35:45 <wob_jonas> that's mine too, right?
00:35:45 <shachaf> `n
00:35:46 <HackEgo> 3/3: in the category of small categories.
00:35:51 <wob_jonas> `dowg wisest human
00:35:58 <HackEgo> 7954:2016-05-07 <b_jonäs> `` cp -vi wisdom/gene\\ ray wisdom/wisest\\ human
00:36:06 <shachaf> `cwlprits gene ray
00:36:14 <HackEgo> b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs
00:37:38 <shachaf> `` culprits share/conscripts | xargs -n 1 | awk '!x[$0]++' | xargs
00:37:47 <HackEgo> alercäh rdocöc quintopïa Zarutiän jeffl3̈5 BlueProtomän fizzïe hppavilion[1̈] Phantom_Hoovër int-̈e b_jonäs boil̈y a`a`a`a`jo7äs a`a`a`a`jo8äs a`a`a`a`jo3äs a`a`a`a`jo6äs a`a`a`a`jo5äs a`a`a`a`jo4äs a`a`a`a`jo2äs a`a`a`a`jo1äs a`a`a`a`jonas̈0 a`a`a`̈a lambdaböt chicken_jonäs mynam̈e
00:37:48 <shachaf> You ruined `list :-(
00:38:51 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I thought it was sorted by locale and tried to make a lot of entries that sort early. nope, it's sorted by date.
00:39:52 <shachaf> `ls share
00:39:52 <HackEgo> 8ballreplies \ airports.dat \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ candide \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ headers \ headers.gch \ hello \ lua \ maimer \ maimery \ maze \ mtg \ nothp \ recipe \ scapegoats \ scowrevs \ sedtest \ UnicodeData.txt \ unic.txt \ units.d
00:40:07 <shachaf> `1 ls -F share
00:40:08 <HackEgo> 1/2:8ballreplies \ airports.dat \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ candide* \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl* \ delvs-master/ \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ headers \ headers.gch \ hello* \ lua/ \ maimer \ maimery \ maze* \ mtg/ \ nothp \ recipe/ \ scapegoats \ scowrevs \ sedtest \ UnicodeData.txt \ unic.t
00:40:10 <shachaf> `n
00:40:11 <HackEgo> 2/2:xt \ units.dat \ usercmds \ WordData/
00:50:20 <wob_jonas> `1 ``` hg log -l 10 -T '[{node}|{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{file_adds}|{file_mods}|{file_copies}|{tags}|{author}|{desc}] ' wisdom
00:50:21 <HackEgo> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file
00:50:46 <wob_jonas> ``` hg log -l 10 -T '[{node}|{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{file_adds}|{file_mods}|{file_copies}|{tags}|{author}|{desc}] ' wisdom
00:50:48 <HackEgo> ​[a74c6320dbd290b48ad85810cac1b97923e5f7fb|11354|2018-02-28||wisdom/cube||tip|HackBot|<shachaf> slwd cube//s/\\..*/./] [aa9cd28ea336e2ce51eafb3edaa3711345f03bc4|11352|2018-02-27|||||HackBot|<wob_jonas> `` rm -v wisdom/stibia] [2c47cb9739778352eba951b7e939dd23ec2c2e76|11349|2018-02-21|||||HackBot|<wob_jonas> `` rm -v wisdom/sparkle] [e47228e9476b8
00:50:53 <wob_jonas> `? `1
00:50:54 <HackEgo> ​`1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
00:51:01 <wob_jonas> ah
00:51:15 <wob_jonas> `? `n
00:51:16 <HackEgo> ​`n is an abbreviation for `spam.
00:53:57 <wob_jonas> `1 hg log -r  -l 10 -T '[{node}|{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{file_adds}|{file_mods}|{file_copies}|{tags}|{author}|{desc}] ' wisdom
00:53:59 <HackEgo> 1/1:abort: unknown revision '-l'!
00:54:05 <wob_jonas> `1 hg log -l 10 -T '[{node}|{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{file_adds}|{file_mods}|{file_copies}|{tags}|{author}|{desc}] ' wisdom
00:54:07 <HackEgo> 1/5:[a74c6320dbd290b48ad85810cac1b97923e5f7fb|11354|2018-02-28||wisdom/cube||tip|HackBot|<shachaf> slwd cube//s/\\..*/./] [aa9cd28ea336e2ce51eafb3edaa3711345f03bc4|11352|2018-02-27|||||HackBot|<wob_jonas> `` rm -v wisdom/stibia] [2c47cb9739778352eba951b7e939dd23ec2c2e76|11349|2018-02-21|||||HackBot|<wob_jonas> `` rm -v wisdom/sparkle] [e47228e9476b
00:54:08 <wob_jonas> `n
00:54:09 <HackEgo> 2/5:86933f16b30bb326221a92cf2465|11347|2018-02-20||wisdom/procrastination|||HackBot|<int-e> slwd procrastination//sblastbfinalb] [f1282a483ad91997d7af0b696f613ec6a0930070|11345|2018-02-15||wisdom/password|||HackBot|<int-e> learn The password of the month is late.] [873a476e90713d6de026d8a2b47ba4eb94e7715c|11343|2018-02-10||wisdom/oerjan|||HackBot|<
00:54:13 <shachaf> help
00:54:21 <wob_jonas> shachaf: sorry?
00:54:40 <wob_jonas> ``` hg log -l 10 -T '[{node}|{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{file_adds}|{file_mods}|{file_copies}|{tags}|{author}|{desc}] ' bin
00:54:43 <HackEgo> ​[8a04b02587752b079e517ec64de5e55d4a4f63d8|121|2012-03-22|bin test/? test/@ test/No test/WELCOME test/addquote test/allquotes test/calc test/define test/delquote test/etymology test/forget test/fortune test/frink test/google test/hatesgeo test/json test/k test/karma test/karma+ test/karma- test/learn test/log test/logurl test/macro test/marco tes
00:55:17 <shachaf> Now you see why `n is called `spam
00:55:39 <wob_jonas> oh, you're saying I should do this in private message?
00:55:41 <wob_jonas> that's fair
00:57:02 <shachaf> It keeps pinging me.
00:57:15 <fizzie> Hmm, there's no log-search functionality in the fshg interface.
00:57:16 <shachaf> And those hashes aren't really helping anyone.
00:57:35 <fizzie> FWIW, for anything "in-depth" like that, you might be better off just cloning the repo and doing it locally.
00:58:04 <fizzie> The path is http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg
00:58:14 <shachaf> That's what I do.
00:58:24 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what? but didn't a wisdom just say that the web interface doesn't work right now?
00:59:05 <fizzie> I missed that. But https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/ should be up and running.
00:59:17 <fizzie> So if a wisdom is saying that, it must be unwise.
00:59:32 <fizzie> (Though I don't think it's going to help you find all your own edits.)
00:59:56 <fizzie> `grwp unwise
00:59:57 <HackEgo> wise:Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise.
01:00:23 <shachaf> imo `forget unwise
01:23:19 <wob_jonas> so, including historical deleted entries, I've touched 214 out of 1998 files in wisdom, although for some of them I've made only minor edits
01:24:49 <wob_jonas> `1 # hg log -r 1: -T "{join(files,'\x1C')}\x1D{desc}\x1E" wisdom | perl -we '$/="\x1E";while(<>){ ($f,$u)=/\A([^\x1D]*)\x1D<([0-9-A-z]+)>/ or die qq(format $_); if ($u=~/jonas(?![a-z])/i) { for $e (split /\x1C/,$f) { $e=~s"\Awisdom/"" and $e{$e}++; } } } print "$_; " for sort keys%e;'
01:24:50 <HackEgo> 1/0:
01:24:57 <wob_jonas> ^ this command would list them all if it weren't commented out
01:25:53 <wob_jonas> `? 0
01:25:54 <HackEgo> 702 matching entries found.
01:26:00 <wob_jonas> what the heck is this? how was it even funny?
01:26:03 <wob_jonas> `forget 0
01:26:05 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:28:38 <wob_jonas> ``` \? adpoted # is this one worth keeping? someone help me clean up
01:28:39 <HackEgo> adpoted? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:28:58 <wob_jonas> huh
01:29:00 <wob_jonas> `? adopted
01:29:01 <HackEgo> ​"Oh lord, we've adopted another one." (about Emily) => Marten realizes what kind of webcomic he lives in in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298
01:29:42 <wob_jonas> ``` \? accounting # this one is by zzo38 and I forgot what it means
01:29:43 <HackEgo> ​⟨BAL|FSV⟩ = 0
01:30:12 <shachaf> `? `#
01:30:13 <HackEgo> ​`# <comment>//`<command> is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
01:30:52 <wob_jonas> hmm, I could make a command that asks when a wisdom entry was first created and links to the log page for it
01:30:55 <wob_jonas> to find out the history
01:31:50 <wob_jonas> https://esolangs.org/logs/2015-12-19.html for wisdom/0 , apparently there were 702 wisdoms back then
01:32:09 <wob_jonas> still doesn't make sense
01:34:05 <wob_jonas> `forget aglist
01:34:07 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:34:20 <wob_jonas> I didn't even trigger that one a few days ago when I found that ag has finally updated
01:34:41 <wob_jonas> basically I already forgot it existed
01:38:36 <wob_jonas> `forget ata
01:38:38 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:38:58 <shachaf> Lists are most useful when you forget something exists.
01:39:05 <shachaf> If you remember it then you can check it yourself.
01:39:28 <wob_jonas> `forget b_jonas can't spell
01:39:30 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:43:11 <wob_jonas> `? sled
01:43:12 <HackEgo> ​`sled <filename>//<sed script>
01:44:52 <wob_jonas> `sled wisdom/can't//s/ father / /;s/ demand /& disaster
01:44:53 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 35: unterminated `s' command
01:44:57 <wob_jonas>     KiwiIRC 
01:44:57 <wob_jonas>         freenode
01:44:58 <wob_jonas>         #esoteric
01:44:58 <wob_jonas>         HackEgo
01:44:58 <wob_jonas> The 25th IOCCC is open until 2018-Mar 15 03:08:07 UTC | Welcome to the international millennium for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8o
01:44:58 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Excess Flood).
01:46:04 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
01:46:06 <fizzie> `? slwd
01:46:07 <HackEgo> ​`slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
01:46:10 <wob_jonas> sorry
01:46:20 <wob_jonas> `sled wisdom/can't//s/ father / /;s/ demand /& disaster/
01:46:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/can't//can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. A list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand  disasterdraft enhance example fast glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't st
01:46:34 <wob_jonas> `revert
01:46:35 <HackEgo> Done.
01:46:40 <wob_jonas> `sled wisdom/can't//s/ father / /;s/ demand /&disaster /
01:46:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/can't//can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. A list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand disaster draft enhance example fast glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't st
01:46:45 <fizzie> You missed my gentle hint about slwd. :(
01:46:53 <wob_jonas> I can see it
01:47:03 <wob_jonas> but meh, there are too many commands, I don't care
01:47:17 <wob_jonas> and even using sled is unusual from me
01:47:23 <wob_jonas> I usually just use the ordinary unix tools
01:47:31 <fizzie> For every command, there's an equal and opposite command.
01:48:50 <wob_jonas> `? cloud
01:48:51 <HackEgo> The cloud is a server Blackhat guy runs, connected to the internet through a cable modem. There's a lot of caching. Cloud is also the shape of clouds.
01:49:07 <wob_jonas> I know which two xkcd strips this refers to, but I'm not sure if it's worth keeping
01:49:36 <shachaf> Probably not.
01:49:44 <wob_jonas> `forget cloud
01:49:46 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:49:54 <wob_jonas> shachaf: how about wisdom/adopted ?
01:50:05 <wob_jonas> `? dark water
01:50:06 <HackEgo> Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination.
01:50:10 <wob_jonas> this one can definitely go to the trash
01:50:14 <wob_jonas> `forget dark water
01:50:15 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:50:31 <shachaf> adopted isn't the wisdom for me
01:51:17 <wob_jonas> `? ehlist
01:51:18 <HackEgo> ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/
01:51:22 <wob_jonas> ^ I wasn't using this one either
01:51:25 <wob_jonas> `forget ehlist
01:51:26 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:51:31 <wob_jonas> I just announced that it's updated without using the list
01:52:00 <shachaf> Forgetting the wisdom without forgetting the list is a scow move.
01:52:12 <wob_jonas> what's the point of all those the lists if the only one I actually trigger is phdlist, which doesn't exist
01:52:16 <shachaf> `cat bin/aglist
01:52:17 <wob_jonas> I can forget those too
01:52:17 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ b_jonas \ shachaf
01:52:27 <shachaf> Wait, I was on that list?
01:52:29 <wob_jonas> `cat bin/ehlist
01:52:30 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ b_jonas
01:52:37 <wob_jonas> shachaf: abstruse goose. and it has four new comics
01:52:41 <shachaf> Oh.
01:52:45 <wob_jonas> four new comics after a hiatus of lots of years
01:52:47 <wob_jonas> seriously strange
01:52:50 <shachaf> I looked for abstrusegooselist when I saw the update recently.
01:52:56 <shachaf> It didn't exist so I figured no one else cared.
01:53:11 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I did care, and announced in this channel that there were updates
01:53:15 <wob_jonas> but I didn't know there was a list
01:53:16 <shachaf> `dowg aglist
01:53:19 <wob_jonas> `rm bin/ehlist
01:53:29 <wob_jonas> I created that
01:53:32 <HackEgo> 11356:2018-02-28 <wob_jonäs> forget aglist \ 7211:2016-03-14 <b_jonäs> learn aglist is update notification for the Abstruse Goose webcomic. http://abstrusegoose.com/ \ 7210:2016-03-14 <b_jonäs> learn aglist aglist is update notification for the Abstruse Goose webcomic. http://abstrusegoose.com/
01:53:32 <wob_jonas> both of them
01:53:33 <HackEgo> No output.
01:53:51 <shachaf> `undo 11356
01:54:10 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/aglist
01:54:27 <wob_jonas> `forget do
01:54:29 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:56:05 <wob_jonas> `forget enrichment center
01:56:06 <wob_jonas> `forget enrichment centre
01:56:06 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:56:08 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:56:12 <wob_jonas> `? eto
01:56:13 <HackEgo> Eto is the ageless laughing first minister.
01:56:24 <wob_jonas> that one isn't worth keeping either probably
01:56:35 <wob_jonas> `forget every major
01:56:37 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:56:38 <wob_jonas> `forget eto
01:56:39 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:58:00 <wob_jonas> `? extreme ironing
01:58:01 <HackEgo> Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
01:58:04 <wob_jonas> `forget extreme ironing
01:58:06 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:58:52 <wob_jonas> `? galaxy
01:58:53 <HackEgo> A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk.
01:58:56 <wob_jonas> dunno, that one is a bit flat too
01:59:09 <wob_jonas> `? ghast
01:59:10 <HackEgo> A ghast is a palette-swapped higher level copycat of ghoul.
01:59:12 <wob_jonas> `forget ghast
01:59:13 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:59:30 <wob_jonas> I remember I added like ten for various undead
01:59:39 <wob_jonas> `forget ghost
01:59:41 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:59:43 <wob_jonas> `forget ghast
01:59:43 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/ghast’: No such file or directory \ Forget what?
01:59:53 <shachaf> `cat bin/forget
01:59:54 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" \ echo "Forget what?"
01:59:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
02:00:32 <wob_jonas> helloerjan. I'm cleaning up my wisdoms
02:00:55 <shachaf> `sled bin/forget//s/"$/& \&\& \\//
02:00:56 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 16: unknown option to `s'
02:01:04 <shachaf> `sled bin/forget//s/"$/& \&\& \\/
02:01:06 <HackEgo> bin/forget//#!/bin/sh \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" && \ \ echo "Forget what?" && \
02:01:11 <shachaf> oops
02:01:13 <shachaf> `revert
02:01:14 <HackEgo> Done.
02:01:21 <shachaf> `sled bin/forget//s/)"$/& \&\& \\/
02:01:22 <HackEgo> bin/forget//#!/bin/sh \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" && \ \ echo "Forget what?"
02:01:32 <shachaf> Hmm, that might be a bit confusing.
02:01:40 <shachaf> `forget doesn't exist
02:01:41 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/doesn't exist’: No such file or directory
02:01:50 <wob_jonas> `forget guard
02:01:51 <HackEgo> No output.
02:02:19 <wob_jonas> um
02:02:21 <wob_jonas> `? guard
02:02:22 <HackEgo> guard? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:02:33 <wob_jonas> `forget wisdom/guard
02:02:34 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/wisdom/guard’: Not a directory
02:02:36 <wob_jonas> no
02:03:00 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the backslashes shouldn't be there
02:03:03 <wob_jonas> I think
02:03:18 <shachaf> Oh, I guess it's not necessary after &&
02:03:31 <wob_jonas> `forget hand injury
02:03:33 <HackEgo> No output.
02:03:49 <wob_jonas> (there's a duplicate at wisdom/hand\ injuries
02:03:50 <wob_jonas> )
02:03:59 <wob_jonas> `? hari
02:04:00 <HackEgo> Hari wears an identical suit every day. Or the same suit? The latter glitch would be a sign of adjustments on the Matrix.
02:04:01 <wob_jonas> meh
02:04:04 <shachaf> please fix it twh
02:05:04 <wob_jonas> `cat -A bin/forget
02:05:04 <HackEgo> cat: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'cat --help' for more information.
02:05:08 <wob_jonas> ``` cat -A bin/forget
02:05:09 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh$ \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" && \$ \ echo "Forget what?"$ \ $
02:05:34 <wob_jonas> ``` cat -A bin/rm-p
02:05:34 <HackEgo> rm "$1"; rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null$
02:05:52 <wob_jonas> ah
02:06:21 <wob_jonas> I think rm-p doesn't give a sane exit code
02:06:59 <wob_jonas> shachaf: can I just remove the part that tries to remove parent dirs? we have exactly one subdir in wisdom, as of last I checked
02:07:52 <shachaf> You must not've checked very recently.
02:09:03 <wob_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''for n; do rm "wisdom/$n" && echo "Forget what?"; done' > bin/forget; chmod a+x bin/forget
02:09:04 <HackEgo> No output.
02:09:11 <wob_jonas> `forget hydrogen
02:09:13 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:09:14 <shachaf> Huh?
02:09:14 <wob_jonas> `forget hydrogee
02:09:15 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/hydrogee’: No such file or directory
02:09:19 <shachaf> Why did you get rid of -p?
02:09:30 <wob_jonas> shachaf: because that doesn't give the right exit code
02:09:34 <wob_jonas> so we can't use it in this context
02:09:43 <wob_jonas> shachaf: it doesn't save the exit code of the rm
02:10:01 <wob_jonas> only gives the exit code of the rmdir -p , and that's irrelevant most of the time
02:10:16 <wob_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type d
02:10:17 <HackEgo> wisdom \ wisdom/¯\(°_o) \ wisdom/8 \ wisdom/8/8 \ wisdom/8/8/8 \ wisdom/8/8/8/8 \ wisdom/8/8/8/8/8 \ wisdom/8/8/8/8/8/8 \ wisdom/8/8/8/8/8/8/8 \ wisdom/¯\(°​_o) \ wisdom/le \ wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_ \ wisdom/biweekly
02:10:25 <wob_jonas> what the
02:10:31 <wob_jonas> `? 8
02:10:32 <HackEgo> cat: 8: Is a directory
02:10:39 <wob_jonas> `? 8/8/8/8/8/8/8/8
02:10:40 <HackEgo> 8/8/8/8/8/8/8/8 is an empty chess board in FEN.
02:10:44 <wob_jonas> ah
02:11:02 <wob_jonas> I think I checked and saw some of those, but not the 8
02:12:47 <wob_jonas> ``` forget hypo integer
02:12:49 <HackEgo> Forget what? \ Forget what?
02:12:50 <wob_jonas> what are even these?
02:13:24 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -mindepth 1 -type f
02:13:24 <oerjan> please don't remove wisdoms without having displayed them in channel shortly before, thank you.
02:13:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/6 random numbers \ wisdom/¯\(°_o)/¯ \ wisdom/umlaut \ wisdom/pirate \ wisdom/quote \ wisdom/damnation \ wisdom/heck \ wisdom/pcp \ wisdom/nooga \ wisdom/soup \ wisdom/kitt \ wisdom/irc \ wisdom/post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze \ wisdom/metar \ wisdom/certainly \ wisdom/cyberiad \ wisdom/for furt
02:13:52 <shachaf> oerjan: Any reason `forget doesn't print wisdoms, like `delquote?
02:13:58 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -mindepth 2 -type f
02:13:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/¯\(°_o)/¯ \ wisdom/8/8/8/8/8/8/8/8 \ wisdom/¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ wisdom/le/rn \ wisdom/le/arn \ wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_/¯ \ wisdom/biweekly/the
02:14:01 <oerjan> because it's trying to be funny.
02:14:16 <oerjan> perhaps the fun has outlived its usefulness.
02:15:03 <wob_jonas> oerjan: ok, I'll display the further ones I delete then
02:15:13 <wob_jonas> I mean, if you want to feel the pain
02:15:23 <oerjan> *sigh*
02:15:26 <wob_jonas> these are ones I created by the way, I'll display them if it wasn't me who created them
02:15:44 <wob_jonas> `? ipu
02:15:45 <HackEgo> IPU is an invisible pink unicorn.
02:15:46 <oerjan> oh well.
02:15:49 <wob_jonas> `forget ipu
02:15:50 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:16:42 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I already forgot several before you entered
02:16:55 <oerjan> fine, just do it without, i'll probably just get more riled up.
02:17:08 <wob_jonas> `? ioccclist
02:17:09 <HackEgo> ioccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccc.org/#news
02:17:26 <wob_jonas> have I actually used that when the latest contest was announced? I don't remember
02:17:28 <shachaf> ipu is intensive pear unit
02:17:40 <shachaf> intensive processing unit?
02:17:59 <wob_jonas> `? iron general
02:18:00 <HackEgo> The Iron General is Siona Patricia pa-Lehyll pa-Drusia Ishgur-Sal, Lady of Tyren, sometime general in His Majesty's army, dame of the Empire, and senator of Tuqnil, in http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2003-12-04.0383.html
02:18:02 <wob_jonas> `forget iron general
02:18:03 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:18:36 <oerjan> i'll agree those weren't my favorite kind of wisdom, too obscure without being funny.
02:18:36 <wob_jonas> `? john
02:18:37 <HackEgo> John is not Hziulquoigmnzhah of Cykranosh, the dread spawn of Cxaxukluth, according to http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4072
02:18:51 <wob_jonas> `forget john
02:18:52 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:19:20 <wob_jonas> oerjan: wisdom/0 and wisdom/hypo were probably the worst of the ones I deleted so far
02:19:29 <wob_jonas> and I'm only near the middle
02:19:31 <oerjan> `dowg 0
02:19:39 <HackEgo> 11355:2018-02-28 <wob_jonäs> forget 0 \ 6417:2015-12-19 <b_jonäs> le/rn 0/702 matching entries found.
02:19:44 <wob_jonas> `? jander
02:19:45 <HackEgo> Jander was murdered, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask.
02:19:50 <wob_jonas> `forget jander
02:19:51 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:20:25 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I mean because those were not only not funny, they weren't even referencing anything
02:20:44 <wob_jonas> and I don't even understand what I could have thought when I created them
02:21:02 <wob_jonas> for many I deleted, I can at least sort of understand why I created them, even if it was a bad idea
02:21:18 <wob_jonas> `? keenlist
02:21:19 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
02:21:32 <wob_jonas> if this somehow happened, I don't think I'd remember there is a list
02:21:58 <wob_jonas> `? kinder surprise
02:21:59 <HackEgo> Kinder Surprise is an addictive drug marketed for children so dangerous it's banned at the federal level.
02:22:01 <wob_jonas> `forget kinder surprise
02:22:02 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:23:07 <wob_jonas> `? loodun
02:23:08 <HackEgo> Loodun Antyok demonstrates how to play a lawful character the exact opposite way from the lawful stupid archetype.
02:23:10 <wob_jonas> `forget loodun
02:23:12 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:23:32 <wob_jonas> `? macedonia
02:23:34 <HackEgo> Macedonia is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Taiwan is.
02:23:36 <wob_jonas> `forget macedonia
02:23:38 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:24:04 <wob_jonas> `? mark
02:24:05 <HackEgo> A mark of one's destiny singled out alone, fulfilled.
02:24:08 <wob_jonas> `forget mark
02:24:09 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:24:38 <wob_jonas> `? napkin
02:24:39 <HackEgo> A complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins is essential for the comfort, refreshment, and hygiene of the passengers during the journey.
02:25:29 <wob_jonas> `? nød
02:25:30 <HackEgo> Nød is French for vertex.
02:25:38 <wob_jonas> `forget nød
02:25:39 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:26:23 <wob_jonas> `? obell
02:26:24 <HackEgo> The obell is what we ring each time a new strip of the o webcomic is published.
02:26:27 <wob_jonas> `forget obell
02:26:28 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:26:32 <wob_jonas> `? of
02:26:33 <HackEgo> Of this incident we shall never speak again.
02:26:34 <wob_jonas> `forget of
02:26:36 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:27:07 <wob_jonas> `? overworld
02:27:08 <HackEgo> The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games.
02:27:12 <wob_jonas> hmm
02:27:23 <wob_jonas> `? one ring
02:27:24 <HackEgo> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
02:27:40 <shachaf> Rings are much better than fields.
02:27:42 <wob_jonas> `? oren's font
02:27:43 <HackEgo> ​\oren\'s font neoletters is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
02:27:46 <wob_jonas> `? font
02:27:47 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
02:28:12 <wob_jonas> which ones of these should I keep
02:28:35 <wob_jonas> `forget overworld
02:28:36 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:28:44 <wob_jonas> `forget oren's font
02:28:45 <lifthrasiir> merge them into one single font and link to it
02:28:46 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:28:58 <wob_jonas> lifthrasiir: it's already merged to wisdom/font
02:29:15 <wob_jonas> `? palate
02:29:16 <HackEgo> Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's preferences about food or drink.
02:29:17 <wob_jonas> `forget palate
02:29:19 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:29:30 <wob_jonas> `? patch
02:29:31 <lifthrasiir> wob_jonas: I meant to merge all those font files
02:29:31 <HackEgo> patch is the precursor to both perl and version control.
02:29:33 <wob_jonas> `forget patch
02:29:34 <lifthrasiir> somehow
02:29:34 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:29:42 <wob_jonas> `? pbflist
02:29:43 <HackEgo> pbflist is update notification for the Perry Bible Fellowship webcomic. http://pbfcomics.com/
02:29:46 <wob_jonas> this one can stay, I actually use itt
02:30:00 <wob_jonas> despite that it doesn't exist in bin
02:30:51 <wob_jonas> `? post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze
02:30:52 <HackEgo> Post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze is the genre of the Autobahn album "Nagelbett" according to http://thedailywtf.com/articles/Yo-Ho%2c-Yo-Ho%2c-A-Pirates-Life-for-Lee .
02:30:53 <wob_jonas> `forget post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze
02:30:54 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:38:50 <wob_jonas> `? ravnica
02:38:51 <HackEgo> Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name.
02:38:52 <wob_jonas> `? ravnica: city of guilds
02:38:53 <HackEgo> Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name.
02:39:09 <wob_jonas> which one of those should I keep? the first one is easier to find, but the second one is a more appropriate name
02:39:24 <wob_jonas> `forget ravnica
02:39:25 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:39:51 <wob_jonas> `? cookbook
02:39:52 <HackEgo> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
02:39:53 <wob_jonas> `? recipe
02:39:54 <HackEgo> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
02:39:56 <wob_jonas> `forget cookbook
02:39:57 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:40:16 <wob_jonas> `? rhenium
02:40:17 <HackEgo> Rhenium is a precious metal. It can be found nowhere in Earth because the Enemy has used up all of it for forging the One Ring.
02:40:19 <wob_jonas> `forget rhenium
02:40:20 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:42:10 <wob_jonas> `? sausage
02:42:11 <HackEgo> Sausage is the ground remains of a pig after the valuable parts (meat, liver) and the part that will form sausage skin are removed.
02:42:14 <wob_jonas> `forget sausage
02:42:15 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:43:49 <wob_jonas> `? skeleton
02:43:50 <HackEgo> A skeleton is an unintelligent undead, similar to the zombie but harder to create, because it's lacking most of the body. The best skeletons are made by groups of people, so-called skeleton crews.
02:43:52 <wob_jonas> `forget skeleton
02:43:54 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:44:01 <wob_jonas> `? ghost
02:44:02 <HackEgo> ghost? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:44:06 <wob_jonas> I already removed that one earlier
02:44:38 <wob_jonas> `? semmelweis
02:44:38 <wob_jonas> `? semmelweis
02:44:39 <HackEgo> Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it.
02:44:39 <HackEgo> Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it.
02:44:47 <wob_jonas> yes, but that's a dupe
02:44:51 <wob_jonas> `? aristotle
02:44:52 <HackEgo> Aristotle said that every illness can be cured by balancing the four vitreous humors, and everyone believed him for 2000 years without checking. It wasn't until the 20th century that Szent-Györgyi Albert realized that Aristotle didn't find the fifth humor, vitamin C, because the Greek alphabet doesn't have the letter C.
02:45:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MAKING CHICKEN).
02:45:42 <wob_jonas> hmm
02:45:46 <wob_jonas> it's not a dup then
02:46:36 <wob_jonas> `? sock
02:46:37 <HackEgo> Socks are alien larvas planning to take over Earth. They started to teleport into Earthly washing machines through miniature wormholes. The invasion is currently halted, because after 4 billion larvas, they ran out of address space. They are also a protocol for proxying TCP connections.
02:46:40 <wob_jonas> `forget sock
02:46:41 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:46:50 <wob_jonas> `? spice
02:46:51 <HackEgo> The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice.
02:46:54 <wob_jonas> `dowg spice
02:47:02 <wob_jonas> `forget spice
02:47:02 <HackEgo> 7470:2016-04-18 <b_jonäs> slashlearn spice/The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice. \ 7425:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn spice girls/The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice.
02:47:03 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:47:25 <wob_jonas> `? spice girls
02:47:26 <HackEgo> The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice.
02:47:27 <wob_jonas> `forget spice girls
02:47:29 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:47:42 <wob_jonas> `? stalactite
02:47:43 <HackEgo> A stalactite is an upside-down stalagmite.
02:47:47 <wob_jonas> `? stalagmite
02:47:48 <HackEgo> A stalagmite is an upside-down stalactite.
02:47:52 <wob_jonas> `dowg stalagmite
02:47:57 <shachaf> Surely they can't both be upside-down.
02:48:01 <HackEgo> 7460:2016-04-17 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/lct/lact/\' wisdom/stalagmite \ 7403:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn A stalagmite is an upside-down stalctite.
02:48:07 <wob_jonas> ``` forget stala{gm,ct}ite
02:48:09 <HackEgo> Forget what? \ Forget what?
02:48:25 <wob_jonas> `dowg stalagmyte
02:48:32 <HackEgo> 7404:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn A stalagmyte is eight stalagmits
02:48:35 <wob_jonas> `forget stalagmyte
02:48:37 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:49:15 <wob_jonas> `? macedonia
02:49:16 <HackEgo> macedonia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:49:16 <wob_jonas> `? taiwan
02:49:17 <HackEgo> Taiwan is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Macedonia is.
02:50:42 <wob_jonas> `? usb3
02:50:43 <HackEgo> USB3 hosts are packaged with a full independent implementation of the older USB/USB2, going through separate pins in the same socket. It is similar to DVI, except you need a separate passive converter stub to plug VGA monitor to DVI socket, but you don't need one to plug a USB client to an USB3 host.
02:50:44 <wob_jonas> `forget usb3
02:50:46 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:52:43 <wob_jonas> the commands specific for wisdom, such as forget, dowg, slwd etc, would make much more sense if they knew about the wisdom name canonicization rules, i.e. they lowercased the name and tried to find versions with a trailing s or leading backtick removed
02:52:55 <wob_jonas> but that would be a bit tricky to implement, so we don't bother
02:53:26 <wob_jonas> `? vampire
02:53:27 <HackEgo> Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf.
02:53:31 <wob_jonas> this one is factually incorrect
02:54:38 <wob_jonas> `? zkstr
02:54:39 <HackEgo> zkstr is a common consonant cluster at the start of Russian words, see eg. http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/metro-typo-2
02:54:42 <wob_jonas> `forget zkstr
02:54:43 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:55:20 <wob_jonas> ok, that's all I'm prepared to delete right now
02:57:35 <shachaf> That's a lot of forgetting.
03:00:05 <wob_jonas> I kept a lot. I did most of the lookups in private message, but didn't do writes that way
03:00:10 <wob_jonas> shachaf: yes
03:00:21 <wob_jonas> but almost all of them are my wisdoms
03:05:43 <wob_jonas> `1 hg log -d -1 -T "{join(file_dels,'\x1C')}\x1C" | perl -we '$/=();for(split"\x1C",<>){ if (m"\Awisdom/(.*)\z"s) { $f{$1}++ } } print "$_; " for sort keys%f;'
03:05:47 <HackEgo> 1/2:0; aglist; ata; b_jonas can't spell; cloud; cookbook; dark water; do; ehlist; enrichment center; enrichment centre; eto; every major; extreme ironing; ghast; ghost; guard; hand injury; hydrogen; hypo; integer; ipu; iron general; jander; john; kinder surprise; loodun; macedonia; mark; nød; obell; of; oren's font; overworld; palate; patch; post-
03:05:48 <wob_jonas> `n
03:05:49 <HackEgo> 2/2:industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze; ravnica; rhenium; sausage; skeleton; sock; spice; spice girls; stalactite; stalagmite; stalagmyte; usb3; zkstr;
03:06:03 <wob_jonas> shachaf: ^ those are all the wisdoms deleted recently
03:07:10 <wob_jonas> note that some of those are deleted because they're duplicates
03:09:31 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
03:13:34 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:53:13 <oerjan> `cat bin/?
03:53:14 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \     then cat /dev/urandom; \     elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \     then cat "$topic"; \     elif [ -e "$topic
03:54:27 <oerjan> `slbd ?//2s,1,@,
03:54:30 <HackEgo> ​?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$@" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \     then cat /dev/urandom; \     elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \     then cat "$topic"; \     elif [ -e "$to
03:54:45 <oerjan> `2 \? time cube
03:54:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:le time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
03:55:34 <oerjan> `? -n
03:55:35 <HackEgo> ​-n? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:55:49 <oerjan> `` echo -n hm
03:55:50 <HackEgo> hm
03:55:53 <oerjan> `` echo -n
03:55:54 <HackEgo> No output.
03:56:59 <oerjan> `` \? -n
03:57:00 <HackEgo> ​-n? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:57:06 <oerjan> `` \? -n hi
03:57:07 <HackEgo> ​-n? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:57:16 <oerjan> curious
03:57:23 <oerjan> `` \? hi there
03:57:24 <HackEgo> hi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:57:32 <oerjan> `? time
03:57:33 <HackEgo> time? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:57:46 <oerjan> `1 \? -n hi
03:57:48 <HackEgo> 1/1:-n? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:58:03 <oerjan> `1 \? time sphere
03:58:04 <HackEgo> 1/1:time? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:58:09 <oerjan> `1 \? time cube
03:58:10 <HackEgo> 1/2:EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bib
03:58:35 <oerjan> `2 cat bin/\?
03:58:36 <HackEgo> 2/2:c1" ]; \     then cat "$topic1"; \     elif [ -e "$topic2" ]; \     then cat "$topic2"; \     else echo "$1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi | rnoooodl
03:58:41 <oerjan> duh
03:58:43 -!- variable has joined.
04:00:53 <oerjan> `slbd ?///else/gs,1,@,
04:00:54 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 8: extra characters after command
04:01:15 <oerjan> `slbd ?///else/s,1,@,
04:01:17 <HackEgo> ​?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$@" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \     then cat /dev/urandom; \     elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \     then cat "$topic"; \     elif [ -e "$to
04:01:20 <shachaf> `cat bin/slbd
04:01:21 <HackEgo> cd bin; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Rosbbud!/'
04:01:28 <oerjan> `1 \? time sphere
04:01:30 <HackEgo> 1/1:time sphere? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:01:35 <oerjan> there you go.
04:02:22 <oerjan> `cat bin/rm-p
04:02:23 <HackEgo> rm "$1"; rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null
04:03:08 <oerjan> `rm-p wisdom/ksausgf
04:03:09 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/ksausgf’: No such file or directory
04:04:06 <oerjan> `slbd rm-p//s, 2.*,,
04:04:08 <HackEgo> rm-p//rm "$1"; rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")"
04:04:12 <oerjan> `rm-p wisdom/ksausgf
04:04:13 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/ksausgf’: No such file or directory \ rmdir: failed to remove ‘wisdom’: Directory not empty
04:04:36 <oerjan> oh i see.
04:04:44 <oerjan> `revert
04:04:45 <HackEgo> Done.
04:05:30 <oerjan> `slbd rm-p//s,;, && {,
04:05:31 <HackEgo> rm-p//rm "$1" ;; { rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null
04:05:38 <oerjan> `revert
04:05:39 <HackEgo> Done.
04:06:07 <oerjan> `slbd rm-p//s,;, \&\& {,;s,$, },
04:06:09 <HackEgo> rm-p//rm "$1" && { rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null }
04:06:21 <oerjan> `rm-p wisdom/ksausgf
04:06:22 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/rm-p: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
04:06:25 <oerjan> f
04:07:13 <oerjan> `slbd rm-p//s,},; },
04:07:15 <HackEgo> rm-p//rm "$1" && { rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null ; }
04:07:19 <oerjan> `rm-p wisdom/ksausgf
04:07:20 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/ksausgf’: No such file or directory
04:07:25 <oerjan> there you go
04:07:39 <oerjan> `doag bin/forget
04:07:47 <HackEgo> 11380:2018-02-28 <wob_jonäs> `` echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\n\'\'for n; do rm "wisdom/$n" && echo "Forget what?"; done\' > bin/forget; chmod a+x bin/forget \ 11377:2018-02-28 <shachäf> sled bin/forget//s/)"$/& \\&\\& \\\\/ \ 11376:2018-02-28 <shachäf> revert \ 11375:2018-02-28 <shachäf> sled bin/forget//s/"$/& \\&\\& \\\\/ \ 6675:2016-02-09 <oerjä
04:08:04 <oerjan> `undo 11380
04:08:07 <HackEgo> patching file bin/forget
04:08:15 <oerjan> `forget ksausgf
04:08:16 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/ksausgf’: No such file or directory
04:08:33 <oerjan> `? test
04:08:34 <HackEgo> test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
04:08:39 <oerjan> `forget test
04:08:41 <HackEgo> No output.
04:08:44 <oerjan> argh
04:08:53 <oerjan> `cat bin/forget
04:08:53 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" && \ \ echo "Forget what?"
04:09:07 <oerjan> oh right, you messed it up several times
04:09:17 <oerjan> `? test
04:09:18 <HackEgo> test? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:09:22 <oerjan> `revert
04:09:23 <HackEgo> Done.
04:09:24 <oerjan> `? test
04:09:25 <HackEgo> test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
04:10:25 <oerjan> `doag bin/forget
04:10:32 <HackEgo> 11419:2018-02-28 <oerjän> undo 11380 \ 11380:2018-02-28 <wob_jonäs> `` echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\n\'\'for n; do rm "wisdom/$n" && echo "Forget what?"; done\' > bin/forget; chmod a+x bin/forget \ 11377:2018-02-28 <shachäf> sled bin/forget//s/)"$/& \\&\\& \\\\/ \ 11376:2018-02-28 <shachäf> revert \ 11375:2018-02-28 <shachäf> sled bin/forget//s/"$/
04:11:18 <oerjan> `undo 11419
04:11:21 <HackEgo> patching file bin/forget
04:11:25 <oerjan> `cat bin/forget
04:11:26 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ for n; do rm "wisdom/$n" && echo "Forget what?"; done
04:11:31 <oerjan> wtf is the for for
04:12:07 <shachaf> Multiple arguments?
04:12:38 <oerjan> `? time
04:12:39 <HackEgo> time? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:12:45 <oerjan> `forget time sphere
04:12:45 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/time sphere’: No such file or directory
04:13:04 <oerjan> `? sphere
04:13:05 <HackEgo> sphere? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:13:12 <oerjan> oh well i guess that's harmless.
04:13:23 <oerjan> `slbd forget//s,rm,rm-p,
04:13:25 <HackEgo> forget//#!/bin/sh \ for n; do rm-p "wisdom/$n" && echo "Forget what?"; done
04:13:34 <oerjan> `forget time sphere
04:13:35 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/time sphere’: No such file or directory
04:13:40 <oerjan> `forget test
04:13:42 <HackEgo> No output.
04:13:45 <oerjan> argh
04:13:51 <oerjan> `revert
04:13:52 <HackEgo> Done.
04:14:27 <oerjan> oh right the rmdir _is_ failing
04:14:32 <oerjan> grmble
04:14:56 <oerjan> `cat bin/forget
04:14:57 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ for n; do rm-p "wisdom/$n" && echo "Forget what?"; done
04:15:04 <oerjan> `cat bin/rm-p
04:15:05 <HackEgo> rm "$1" && { rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null ; }
04:15:08 <oerjan> sheesh
04:15:38 <oerjan> `slbd rm-p//s, ;,; exit 0;,
04:15:40 <HackEgo> rm-p//rm "$1" && { rmdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null; exit 0; }
04:15:50 <oerjan> `forget test
04:15:51 <HackEgo> Forget what?
04:15:54 <oerjan> `revert
04:15:55 <HackEgo> Done.
04:16:23 <oerjan> `forget test sphere
04:16:23 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove ‘wisdom/test sphere’: No such file or directory
04:16:35 <oerjan> that's better
04:17:45 <oerjan> now back to unforgetting to eat ->
04:17:59 <shachaf> `owrjan
04:18:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: owrjan: not found
04:18:22 <shachaf> `doag bin/owrjan
04:18:25 * oerjan stops briefly to whistle innocently
04:18:31 <HackEgo> 11353:2018-02-27 <oerjän> ` rm -v bin/*rjan \ 11351:2018-02-26 <shachäf> ` mv bin/wrjan bin/owrjan
04:18:51 <shachaf> huh
04:19:04 <shachaf> you removed half of bin/ with one command tdnh
04:19:11 <shachaf> `? oerjan
04:19:12 <HackEgo> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
04:19:18 <oerjan> <oerjan> was getting out of hand.
04:20:22 <shachaf> :-(
04:20:47 <shachaf> `` doag | grep '> swrjan' | wc -l
04:20:52 <HackEgo> 55
04:21:47 <shachaf> `` doag | grep '> swrjan' | egrep -o '<[^>]+>' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
04:21:51 <HackEgo> ​     37 <shachäf> \      16 <oerjän> \       2 <Jafët>
04:22:22 <shachaf> I was going to write something about how you could never remember to eat.
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04:49:04 <oerjan> `undo 11353
04:49:07 <HackEgo> patching file bin/dowrjan \ patching file bin/owrjan \ patching file bin/quoerjan \ patching file bin/quørjan \ patching file bin/swrjan \ patching file bin/translatetoerjan \ patching file bin/zalgoerjan
04:50:40 <oerjan> `zalgoerjan
04:50:41 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/zalgoerjan: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/zalgoerjan: cannot execute: Permission denied
04:50:52 <oerjan> `cat bin/zalgoerjan
04:50:53 <HackEgo> echo -n "oerjan $@" | zalgo
04:51:10 <oerjan> `wat
04:51:10 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wat: not found
04:51:30 <oerjan> `` ls -l bin/zalgoerjan
04:51:31 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 28 Feb 28 04:49 bin/zalgoerjan
04:51:43 <oerjan> `doag bin/zalgoerjan
04:51:52 <HackEgo> 11429:2018-02-28 <oerjän> undo 11353 \ 11353:2018-02-27 <oerjän> ` rm -v bin/*rjan \ 1285:2013-01-07 <shachäf> echo \'echo -n "oerjan $@" | zalgo\' > bin/zalgoerjan; chmod +x bin/zalgoerjan \ 1284:2013-01-07 <shachäf> echo \'(echo -n "oerjan $@"; cat) | zalgo\' > bin/zalgoerjan; chmod +x bin/zalgoerjan \ 1281:2013-01-07 <shachäf> echo \'e
04:52:25 <oerjan> something is weird there.
04:52:41 <oerjan> `swrjan hm....
04:52:41 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/swrjan: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/swrjan: cannot execute: Permission denied
04:52:58 <oerjan> `cat bin/undo
04:52:59 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -p1 -R
04:53:13 <oerjan> ...undo doesn't restore permissions?
04:53:27 <oerjan> ...pretty obvious really.
04:53:44 <oerjan> `` chmod +x bin/*rjan
04:53:46 <HackEgo> No output.
04:54:00 <oerjan> `zalgoerjan ok what now
04:54:00 <HackEgo> ǫ͠e̷̘r̗̯j͎͝ȃ̓ǹ̕ ͊͋o̤͖k͎͔ ̯ͣwͩ̓h̠̓a̵̔ț̜ ̿ͥn̲̽o̳็w͉ͭ
04:54:47 <oerjan> `zalgo does this work?
04:54:48 <HackEgo> d͖̉o̷͚e҉̋s̵̗ ́͂t̾̈h̵ͦìͪs͉̓ ̀͐ẁ̫o̭͚r͚͒k̴̬?ͨ͐
04:54:51 <oerjan> yep
04:55:19 <ais523> why do we need an oerjan-specific variant of zalgofication?
04:56:07 <oerjan> we don't. but shachaf got sad when i deleted all the *rjan commands.
04:56:28 <oerjan> so now i'm in my usual state of unable to make a more refined selection.
05:08:35 <shachaf> I don't think zalgoerjan is strictly necessary.
05:14:44 <oerjan> `? web access
05:14:45 <HackEgo> Sorry, HackEgo's sandbox currently has no web access. However, see `? `fetch
05:14:58 <oerjan> i think b_jonas misunderstood that one
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05:56:16 <oerjan> `? extreme irony
05:56:17 <HackEgo> Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing.
05:56:20 <oerjan> hum
05:56:28 <oerjan> `doag extreme ironing
05:56:33 <HackEgo> No output.
05:56:39 <oerjan> `dowg extreme ironing
05:56:46 <HackEgo> 11372:2018-02-28 <wob_jonäs> forget extreme ironing \ 7044:2016-02-28 <b_jonäs> slashlearn extreme ironing/Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
05:57:06 <oerjan> `undo 11372
05:57:08 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/extreme ironing'
05:57:35 <oerjan> it's not that good in itself, but it's needed for the other one.
06:29:29 <ais523> there's no particular reason why every word used in a wisdom entry needs its own wisdom entry
06:30:30 <shachaf> `grWp ironing
06:30:31 <HackEgo> extreme ironing:Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages. \ extreme irony:Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing.
06:30:53 <shachaf> One solution is to forget both of them.
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06:32:25 <ais523> the latter one is actually pretty good
06:32:37 <ais523> but I'm not sure we need a joke database at all
06:33:03 <shachaf> What about an inside joke database?
06:33:31 <shachaf> Most of wisdom is inside jokes about other inside jokes.
06:33:39 <shachaf> Recursive inside jokes without a base case.
06:35:02 <ais523> inside jokes are weird because they're unfunny to nearly everyone and often not very funny to the people who get them either
06:35:12 <ais523> so they're more a method of recognising who belongs to a community than they are of actual humour
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06:36:33 <shachaf> I think many of oerjan's wisdoms are actually good.
06:37:59 <ais523> the extreme irony joke is something that isn't really connected to the channel at all
06:38:04 <ais523> it'd make just as much sense in any other context
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11:53:52 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
11:53:53 <lambdabot> EGLL 281120Z AUTO 11015KT 9999 BKN038 BKN044 M02/M09 Q1018 TEMPO 4000 -SHSN BKN014
11:54:07 <fizzie> It's all SHSNing in here.
11:54:23 <int-e> @metar lowi
11:54:23 <lambdabot> LOWI 281120Z VRB01KT CAVOK M06/M16 Q1013 R08/19//95 NOSIG
11:54:26 <fizzie> I'm supposed to go commute, but people have warned me about London and snow.
11:54:51 <boily> @metar CYUL
11:54:51 <lambdabot> CYUL 281100Z 11002KT 15SM FEW055 OVC120 03/M02 A2996 RMK SC2AS6 SLP149
11:54:53 <int-e> A bit cold, but no snow. (And it was down to M15 at night)
11:55:13 <boily> fizziello. the Beast is Snowing a lot?
11:55:22 <Taneb> @metar EGSC
11:55:22 <lambdabot> EGSC 281120Z 09008KT 3000 -SN BR SCT005 M03/M05 Q1019
11:55:24 <int-e> `"
11:55:25 <HackEgo> 853) <zzo38> There is Haskell program "pandoc" to convert formats, so I make "panchess" which is the similar thing but for chess. \ 654) <shachaf> fizzie: What kind of speech recognition do you do?  <shachaf> If you only need to recognize famous speeches, like Churchill or something, it should be pretty easy.
11:55:38 <boily> int-ello. extreme colds?
11:56:02 <int-e> same thing as yesterday :P
11:56:07 <boily> Tanelle. how is it on your end?
11:56:23 <boily> int-e: do you expect it will stay long?
11:56:28 <Taneb> Decent, I guess
11:56:35 <Taneb> Got the bus into work rather than cycled this morning
11:56:44 <Taneb> (didn't really feel like cycling in snow)
11:56:47 <int-e> boily: it's supposed to get warmer now
11:57:27 <int-e> (so only down to M10 next night? something like that was the forecast yesterday)
11:58:54 <boily> I tried snow cycling once. way too dangerous.
11:59:25 <int-e> . o O ( the snow cycle is part of the water cycle? )
12:00:44 <boily> probably. I guess there's some snow sublimation and iceberg melting and some random stuff?
12:01:38 <int-e> hmm sublimal snow
12:03:23 <boily> meanwhile, the Undying Queen is pulling of some weird costume shit.
12:18:15 <int-e> tbf she started on Monday. Clothes don't just shrink like that.
12:22:43 <ais523> I didn't think any phase of water could sublimate at normal pressures?
12:25:35 <boily> int-e: more hints about what's going on on Friday maybe?
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12:27:56 <int-e> boily: well I hope we'll at least learn why she's surprised... didn't she know about the mirror, or are the 2 1/2 years worrying her? (though it's kind of strange that she doesn't know... Wooster's been around for most of it)
12:28:35 <boily> his523. you are right, water sublimation can only go below 611 Pa.
12:28:45 <boily> (thanks phase diagrams!)
12:29:15 <int-e> `thanks phase diagrams!
12:29:16 <HackEgo> Thanks, phase diagrams!. Thase diagrams!.
12:29:25 <int-e> the !. is a nice touch
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12:31:37 <int-e> otoh she does seem a bit out of touch with time and recent events
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19:16:09 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Superbug *  New user account
19:30:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54252&oldid=54244 * Superbug * (+346) Hi, I'm 'superbug'.
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20:31:07 <wob_jonas> helloerjan
20:32:41 <wob_jonas> ais523: I went through all my wisdoms and deleted a lot of them. you can find a list of the deleted entries in the logs. I also learned some hg parametrization syntax in the meantime, because I was messing with querying the HackEgo data repo.
20:33:57 <wob_jonas> `1 hg log -d -2 -T "{join(file_dels,'\x1C')}\x1C" | perl -we '$/=();for(split"\x1C",<>){ if (m"\Awisdom/(.*)\z"s) { $f{$1}++ } } print "$_; " for sort keys%f;'
20:34:18 <HackEgo> 1/2:0; aglist; ata; b_jonas can't spell; cloud; cookbook; dark water; do; ehlist; enrichment center; enrichment centre; eto; every major; extreme ironing; ghast; ghost; guard; hand injury; hydrogen; hypo; integer; ipu; iron general; jander; john; kinder surprise; loodun; macedonia; mark; nød; obell; of; oren's font; overworld; palate; patch; post-
20:34:20 <wob_jonas> `n
20:34:21 <HackEgo> 2/2:industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze; ravnica; rhenium; sausage; skeleton; sock; spice; spice girls; stalactite; stalagmite; stalagmyte; stibia; test; usb3; zkstr;
20:34:34 <wob_jonas> (technically I'd need a \0 in the separator so it can't clash with filenames, but meh)
20:35:42 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure if this -T "{join(file_dels,'\0')}" thing is better than the xml output format that subversion provides
20:43:36 <wob_jonas> I think the xml output scales better. I've used it at least once to get the type and file size of all files in all commits, and other stuff like that.
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21:32:08 <wob_jonas> but don't worry, I'll just make new bad wisdoms later, and I'll probably make them faster than delete them in the long run
21:36:40 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Or //
21:37:33 <wob_jonas> shachaf: heh. or /./ which rsync uses as a special semantics separator (despite that it otherwise has serious problems with handling strange filenames properly, which I really dislike)
21:45:20 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54253&oldid=54063 * DMC * (+70) 
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22:16:47 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54254&oldid=54253 * DMC * (-25) 
22:17:15 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54255&oldid=54254 * DMC * (+2) 
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22:55:38 <wob_jonas> `? bancstar
22:55:39 <HackEgo> bancstar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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23:00:12 <boily> `? INTERCAL
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23:00:15 <HackEgo> INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market.
23:01:03 <wob_jonas> `dowg bancstar
23:01:12 <HackEgo> No output.
23:04:51 <boily> wellob_jonas. was there a bancstar once?
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23:17:05 <wob_jonas> boily: probably no
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23:18:01 <wob_jonas> boily: but it's a wisdom that could plausibly exist
23:18:22 <wob_jonas> the language is iconic in a strange way that would allow someone to write a wisdom entry about it
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23:19:06 <wob_jonas> `? brainfuck
23:19:07 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
23:19:11 <wob_jonas> `? underload
23:19:12 <HackEgo> underload? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:19:13 <wob_jonas> `? unlambda
23:19:14 <HackEgo> ​``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci
23:19:15 <wob_jonas> `? chef
23:19:16 <HackEgo> chef? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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23:19:24 <wob_jonas> `? piet
23:19:25 <HackEgo> ​Piet is a really colourful programming language.
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23:23:06 <boily> undeload ought to be wisdomed.
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23:26:12 <wob_jonas> `? befunge
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23:26:13 <HackEgo> befunge? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:26:31 <wob_jonas> `? befunge-93
23:26:32 <HackEgo> befunge-93? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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23:27:41 <boily> `le/rn befunge//In the Beginning was Befunge. And Befunge begot Fungot. And Fungot got Taneb. And Taneb tanebvented All the Things. Fnord.
23:27:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'befunge': In the Beginning was Befunge. And Befunge begot Fungot. And Fungot got Taneb. And Taneb tanebvented All the Things. Fnord.
23:29:16 <wob_jonas> `? mouse
23:29:17 <HackEgo> mouse? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:29:24 <wob_jonas> `? ais523
23:29:25 <HackEgo> Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good.
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23:29:31 <wob_jonas> `? dmm
23:29:32 <HackEgo> dmm? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:32:20 <wob_jonas> `? hactar
23:32:21 <HackEgo> hactar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:32:31 <wob_jonas> `? supernova
23:32:33 <wob_jonas> `? supernova bomb
23:32:33 <HackEgo> supernova? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:32:34 <HackEgo> supernova bomb? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:32:37 <boily> hactar?
23:33:19 <wob_jonas> boily: the guy who created the supernova bomb in h2g2
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23:33:56 <wob_jonas> and the supernova bomb is a bomb that would connect the core of every star in the universe, thus making their effective mass so large that they turn into a supernova immediately
23:34:02 <wob_jonas> a really huge one
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23:49:59 <\oren\_> Ideas on what will happen to various languages in the future:
23:50:23 <\oren\_> French will lose even more consonants, and acquires tones in order to hold information that consonants once conveyed, in similar manner that happened to old chinese.
23:50:55 <\oren\_> Chinese will start to LOSE tones as all words become polysyllabic, and reduce tones to a pitch accent system
23:52:45 <\oren\_> and English gets cruft in system reduced over time 
23:53:09 <\oren\_> most languages just cease to exist obviously
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23:55:30 <wob_jonas> \oren\: I don't think that will happen to french or chinese
23:57:15 <wob_jonas> \oren\: and why would French need tones? if it wants to convey more information, it can just grow a vowel duration distinction and turn up the vowel front-back distinction to be more prevalent in all accents
23:57:43 <boily> he\\oren\_. I think French will lose vowels.
23:57:50 <\oren\_> wob_jonas: what if it loses all its ending vowels
23:58:05 <wob_jonas> \oren\: but more importantly, I think French is basically at a stable state about which consonants are kept, it won't easily move away much from that
23:58:05 <\oren\_> in addition to losing the ending consonants
23:58:54 <boily> I like my ending consonants!
23:59:23 <wob_jonas> \oren\: like half of the ending vowels are already "e" which aren't pronounced much of the time
23:59:39 <\oren\_> wob_jonas: yeah