00:00:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:02:23 -!- Naergon has joined. 00:45:50 `5 00:45:54 1/2:706) then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context \ 1237) Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? \ 138) dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 syntax is the leas 00:45:59 `n 00:45:59 2/2:t important part of a programming language other than Python \ 372) such a famous bisexual Yeah, like Marlon Brando. And Caligula. And... Keeley Hawes? I feel cheated by Ashes to Ashes now. 00:47:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:47:48 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:59:27 -!- variable has joined. 01:23:12 -!- MDude has joined. 01:42:55 -!- nchambers has joined. 01:45:13 -!- boily has joined. 01:59:39 -!- moony has joined. 02:00:20 mhelloony! 02:01:24 hi 02:06:04 helloily! 02:39:04 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:46:16 bonsœøøirjan! 02:59:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EXPLODING CHICKEN). 02:59:53 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:02:01 hmph both int-e and boily gone 03:02:16 * oerjan has a theory about the mirrors in girl genius 03:06:27 i suspect lucrezia discovered them when she and the heterodyne boys visited Skifander, and used them to become the Other. 03:09:16 by taking over the geisterdamen world by posing as their eternal queen. several options for what happened with the original queen, though. especially if time travel is strongly involved (the grey witch might be that queen, or even lucrezia.) 03:16:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 03:19:49 `edit 03:19:51 https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/ 03:21:13 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:22:43 `fetch tmp/hello https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/tmp/hello 03:22:57 now what. 03:23:09 2018-03-02 03:23:03 URL:https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/tmp/hello [291/291] -> "tmp/hello" [1] 03:24:13 `` \! "bf32 `cat tmp/hello`" 03:24:32 it seems a bit slow... 03:24:45 No output. 03:25:19 hm obviously it would be extremely slow. 03:27:22 hm was instantaneous in terminal. 03:27:42 `! bf32 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 03:27:43 2 03:28:12 `` \! "bf32 `fmt -w 1000 tmp/hello`" 03:28:13 Segmentation fault 03:28:24 fmt -w 1000 tmp/hello 03:28:27 `` fmt -w 1000 tmp/hello 03:28:28 ​->-----------[<->-]< [ \ > ->-----------[<->-] >->--------[<->-] >->-----[<->-] <<<< <<- \ ] >>> ->---[<->-]<. << ->--[<->-]<. ->--------[<->-]<.. ->----[<->-]<. >>>> ->-----[<->-]<. ------------. <<<< ->---------[<->-]<. --------. ->----[<->-]<. ------. --------. >>>> ->--[<->-]<. 03:28:57 why is there a \ in there 03:30:17 `` \! "bf32 $(echo $(cat tmp/hello))" 03:30:18 Hello, world! 03:30:21 there you go 03:30:56 `` \! "bf64 $(echo $(cat tmp/hello))" 03:30:58 ​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/bf64: not found 03:31:05 wat 03:31:36 * oerjan runs that in terminal too 03:38:44 * oerjan ate a piece of chocolate that had been in the fridge too long 03:39:03 hopefully it's nothing serious. 03:39:18 . o O ( famous last words ) 03:41:07 `? underload 03:41:08 underload? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:42:58 `le/rn underload//((HELP I AM TRAPPED IN AN UNDERLOAD QUINE COMMENT!)!:a(:^)*S):^ 03:43:01 Learned 'underload': ((HELP I AM TRAPPED IN AN UNDERLOAD QUINE COMMENT!)!:a(:^)*S):^ 03:43:17 ^ul ((HELP I AM TRAPPED IN AN UNDERLOAD QUINE COMMENT!)!:a(:^)*S):^ 03:43:17 ((HELP I AM TRAPPED IN AN UNDERLOAD QUINE COMMENT!)!:a(:^)*S):^ 03:45:05 `? piet 03:45:06 ​Piet is a really colourful programming language. 04:03:31 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:04:26 @tell ais523 it sounds like the sort of idea that'd likely have been done already, but maybe not? <-- fizzie thought about a befunge JIT but i don't think he finished it 04:04:26 Consider it noted. 04:11:08 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:11:13 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:11:22 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:11:27 -!- xkapastel has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:11:53 -!- zgrepc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:13:56 -!- zgrepc has joined. 04:15:23 -!- lynn has joined. 04:17:10 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 04:17:20 -!- xkapastel has joined. 04:40:14 -!- ocharles has joined. 04:41:22 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:53:15 -!- trout has joined. 04:56:01 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:23:18 [[IOTA-C0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54262&oldid=54258 * Enoua5 * (-7848) remove duplicate entries from table 05:35:24 [[IOTA-C0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54263&oldid=54262 * Enoua5 * (+994) Add section Future 05:43:49 [[IOTA-C0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54264&oldid=54263 * Enoua5 * (+0) Wrong line. 05:44:58 -!- augur has joined. 06:06:06 -!- hakatashi has joined. 06:26:41 `doag bin/en2sv 06:26:48 11435:2018-03-01 `` rm -v bin/en2sv \ 5971:2015-09-10 ` -e bin/en2sv || >bin/en2sv echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'use Encode; binmode *$_,"encoding(utf8)" for STDIN,STDOUT; local$/; for (split//,) { rand(5)<3 and y/EOeo/\\xc4\\xc5\\xe4\\xe5/; print }\'; chmod a+x bin/en2sv \ 5970:2015-09-10 ` -e bin/en2sv 06:27:14 whatever that was. 06:40:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:05:08 oerjan: english to swedish? it replaces each E/O/e/o by Ä/Å/ä/å with 60% probability. 08:05:33 IIRIC 08:07:49 hm 08:07:50 `? int-e 08:07:51 int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. 08:08:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:09:05 int-e: also, see my girl genius theory above (posted before today's update) 08:15:07 heh "your young baron" 08:16:20 oerjan: how dare you complain about my absence at 4am 08:18:52 but hmm, peeping into the infinite... 08:22:48 (Can google find the previous occurrence (if any) of panel 6 for me? :P) 08:25:55 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:28:28 -!- aloril has joined. 08:28:51 int-e: there isn't a precise match but the sequence starts at http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100416 08:29:43 int-e: i was more complaining about boily leaving seconds before 08:34:38 oerjan: thanks 08:35:22 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:35:30 I see that explosions came up then as well 08:37:25 -!- aloril has joined. 09:02:25 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:06:50 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:10:41 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:22:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 10:01:27 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:20:02 -!- yaewa has joined. 10:21:27 -!- moei has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:44:29 -!- yaewa has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 10:44:50 -!- moei has joined. 10:54:30 -!- ski has joined. 11:37:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:52:21 -!- atslash has joined. 11:58:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:06:02 -!- Naergon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:06:49 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:13:47 oerjan, int-e: yes, that was from back when I added bin/wälcåmä 12:26:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:41:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:42:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:22:51 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:28:13 -!- atslash has joined. 14:04:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 14:29:49 `ping 14:30:22 ais523: pong 14:30:38 was checking whether my Enter key was working 14:30:45 turns out it does in Konversation but not info for some reason 14:30:53 (note: specifically Enter, not Return) 14:31:09 hmm, why doesn't HackEgo react? 14:31:13 `starwars 9 14:31:37 seems to be numlock-dependent, even odder 14:31:39 fizzie: the provider is at it again 14:32:16 pong 14:32:18 Cliegg Lars \ BB-9E \ Cassian Andor \ Admiral Firmus Piett \ Watto \ Lando Calrissian \ Jan Dodonna \ Nien Nunb \ the Sarlacc 14:32:38 hmm, that was slow 14:32:45 `ping are you woken up now, HackEgo? 14:32:46 pong 14:32:54 it took him a minute to spin the disks up 14:33:24 `words 20 14:33:36 ishir pocry plected urvier otreestal wrap timat sewah mutana eloir mar gand limal leagemmerconfi plation vited tsovet ncnto konnt stula 14:34:25 that's reasonably good 14:36:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:42:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 14:51:27 -!- iconmaster has joined. 14:52:08 -!- iconmaster has quit (Client Quit). 15:05:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:07:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:13:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:44:39 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Singingbanana * uploaded "[[File:Flow Down Arithmetic Picture.png]]" 15:57:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:17:48 -!- MDude has joined. 16:18:09 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:23:37 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:43:40 -!- augur has joined. 16:45:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:47:11 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:06:55 -!- erkin has joined. 17:23:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:48:28 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:00:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:32:00 `ftoc 78 18:32:01 78.00°F = 25.56°C 18:35:25 -!- xkapastel has joined. 18:37:00 * FireFly . o O ( a .f to .c compiler ) 18:46:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:46 FireFly: that's not a joke, is it. 18:55:06 (the spelling is a bit off, that's all) 18:59:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:09:35 I have figured out some more details about Hero Mesh file format now. 19:10:06 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:15:55 -!- atslash has joined. 19:24:35 -!- mniip has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:25:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:27:41 -!- mniip has joined. 19:46:11 I should need to include the Windows "System" font in Free Hero Mesh, since some puzzle sets arrange the text in a fancy way, and so, it is necessary to have the correct font metrics in order to emulate that. 19:55:36 -!- augur has joined. 19:57:48 zzo38: or at least include its font metrics including kerning table for the sizes used, but not the bitmap appearances of the glyphs themselves 19:59:19 zzo38: there is at least one sets of fonts that deliberately reproduces the font metrics of the MS fonts Times New Roman and Arial to allow for laying out some MS word documents exactly the same as the MS software does while claiming to be free software per the debian definition 19:59:33 Yes, at least the metrics are needed (only one size is used); even if the glyphs aren't included, it will still work, that is correct. As far as I know it doesn't have kerning but I don't know, maybe it does include kerning. 20:02:38 zzo38: but I don't know how much that is necessary, as opposed to just adding special knowledge about all the puzzles that do arrange text in a way that matters 20:02:41 Is there a free bitmap font with the correct metrics? 20:03:19 why would it have to be bitmap? 20:04:01 and I don't think there is 20:04:02 wob_jonas: The puzzles will still work without the correct font metrics; the arrangement of the text will just look wrong, but will still be readable. Just some level titles will look bad if the metrics are wrong. 20:05:01 https://packages.debian.org/stretch/fonts-liberation2 says "the same metrics as the (non-free) Microsoft Times, Arial and Courier fonts, which implies those fonts can serve as a drop-in replacement", but mind you, they are bad fonts, I recommend against them unless you really really need both the font metrics and the strict debian definition of fre 20:05:01 e software 20:05:18 it doesn't include the System font 20:05:50 consider though that if you're not debian, then the MS fonts actually have a reasonable license that allows you to use them in most situations 20:06:01 so consider using the actual original bitmap fonts 20:11:35 Also, the MS fonts are actually good looking professional ones (notwithstanding the ugly "A" in one size of System), and most of the replacements are half-assed bad quality ones. 20:12:49 This applies both to the old ones (Times New Roman, Arial, Courier New) and the newer ones (Cambria, Calibri, Consolas) 20:18:19 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...). 20:27:24 As I said, I can do without the font, but would like to add that one size of the System bitmap font anyways. I do need a bitmap font though; a vector font won't do. 20:28:56 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:29:23 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:29:44 But I think I have read somewhere that bitmap fonts are not copyright? 20:45:07 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:45:53 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:57:18 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:01:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:17:18 wob_jonas: zzo38: in the US, bitmap fonts are not copyrightable, so long as you copy the bitmap itself (rather than the font file) 21:17:29 this may not be true in other countries 21:18:03 <\oren\_> ais523: what would the "bitmap" be, if not the font file? 21:18:24 \oren\_: an image consisting of every character in the font 21:18:56 actually you can legally do that with other sorts of font too, it's just not normally enough information to recreate the original font 21:21:11 this is basically because you can't copyright a typeface, but you can copyright an implementation of a typeface… 21:21:14 (in the US, that is) 21:22:19 Anyways I only need the metrics, and it would help to have the bitmaps too, but the original font file is not needed. 21:23:06 Although different glyphs could still work, if they are still bitmaps, and the metrics are correct. 21:33:32 ais523: ok 21:33:54 -!- Hooloovo0 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:34:02 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 21:38:39 [[Wierd Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54266 * Singingbanana * (+712) Created page with "The '''''Wierd Machine''' is a theoretical computer science construct of a 2-cell machine which can implement the cat utility, can(theoretically) implement the Truth-Machine..." 21:39:06 oh, that reminds me, 21:40:05 ais523: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Incident claims that Incident wasn't proven to be Turing-complete. But haven't you actually proved that with oerjan's help? If not, which part of the proof is missing? 21:40:40 I think every bit's been proven at least informally, now 21:40:53 ok 21:40:56 I'm not sure there's any actual compiler or other rigorously specified way of showing it works 21:41:16 ok 21:41:19 so it's a bit less proven than Three Star Programmer (which is a bit less proven than, say, brainfuck) 21:41:56 how does that compare to M:tG without assuming anything about player's behavior except that they don't resign? 21:43:04 that has a proof but it doesn't quite work 21:43:23 The Waterfall Model was an attempt to fix it, incidentally; I have an M:tG implementation of that with five waterclocks 21:43:30 but that possibly isn't enough for TCness 21:43:47 TWM is obviously TC but it's really hard to golf, or at least I haven't figured out how yet 21:44:02 hm, I haven't read about that 21:44:36 do you have a link for the M:tG implementation of Waterfall with five clocks? 21:45:04 I don't, so far it's only in my head 21:45:16 ok 21:45:23 Why do you call it Waterfall Model instead of Waterclocks Model? 21:45:31 but the basic idea is to use three Faceless Devourers controlled by one player to give infinite, unstoppable ETB triggers 21:45:49 zzo38: it's a famous, and somewhat discredited, software engineering technique 21:46:02 O, OK. 21:46:04 so I decided to reuse the name 21:46:43 hah! Faveless Devourers. Using that card is a sure sign of an old M:tG player 21:46:48 b_jonas: when they ETB every creature gets -1/-1 (there's a card that outright has that effect) 21:46:55 also, this is the Future Sight version 21:47:00 `card-by-name Faceless Devourer 21:47:03 Faceless Devourer \ 2B \ Creature -- Nightmare Horror \ 2/1 \ Shadow (This creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.) \ When Faceless Devourer enters the battlefield, exile another target creature with shadow. \ When Faceless Devourer leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control. 21:47:07 err, or Time Spiral block at least 21:47:22 the point is that because they have such a narrow targeting restriction they can't be targeted at anything other thana each ot her 21:47:32 You should fix it to omit reminder text like the other IRC does. 21:47:32 *than each other 21:47:49 that provides the steady decrease 21:47:55 ah 21:48:30 then for the zeroing triggers, we have a "when a creature of this type dies, recreate it" effect via hacking the same cleric creature Alex Churchill uses so that the two types are the same 21:48:33 I forget what it's called 21:49:03 and when the new one ETBs it puts a whole load of +1/+1 counters everywhere using Baru, Fist of Krosa 21:49:09 `card-by-name Baru, Fist of Krosa 21:49:10 Baru, Fist of Krosa \ 3GG \ Legendary Creature -- Human Druid \ 4/4 \ Whenever a Forest enters the battlefield, green creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain trample until end of turn. \ Grandeur -- Discard another card named Baru, Fist of Krosa: Create an X/X green Wurm creature token, where X is the number of lands you control. \ FUT-R 21:49:36 you can change "forest" and "green" individually in order to control both the key and value of the zeroing triggers 21:49:42 key = forest, value = green 21:49:47 and use duplicates to change how many counters are added 21:49:55 (you also need Mirror Gallery but that's not really a problem) 21:50:14 (and Life and Limb in order to make your creatures have basic land types) 21:50:28 but there are only five colors and only five basic land types, which limits you to five waterclocks with this construction 21:51:02 `card-by-name Rotlung Reanimator 21:51:04 Rotlung Reanimator \ 2B \ Creature -- Zombie Cleric \ 2/2 \ Whenever Rotlung Reanimator or another Cleric dies, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token. \ ONS-R 21:51:08 (also, the "when a creature dies, recreate it" trigger needs to be controlled by the player who doesn't control the faceless devourers, so that the triggers stack in the right order) 21:51:09 yes, that one 21:51:16 you hack it so that both creature tyeps are the same 21:52:38 anyway, this is a really simple construction, but it's a pity that five counters may not be enough for TCness 21:52:54 `card-by-name Noxious Ghoul 21:52:55 Noxious Ghoul \ 3BB \ Creature -- Zombie \ 3/3 \ Whenever Noxious Ghoul or another Zombie enters the battlefield, all non-Zombie creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. \ LGN-U, HOP-U 21:53:34 no, that's not the right one 21:53:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:53:52 oh it is 21:54:06 you're triggering on the Faceless 21:54:06 yes. it's the right one 21:54:19 yep 21:55:10 the nice thing about the "non-Zombie" (i.e. non-Horror after hacking) is that you can just give Horror as a creature type to the ROM creatures to preent them being affected 21:55:27 infinitely many -1/-1s is pretty hard to resist, I'm not sure it's even possible 21:55:45 it is if it';s not counters 21:56:04 `card-by-name Indestructibility 21:56:05 Indestructibility \ 3W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant permanent \ Enchanted permanent has indestructible. (Effects that say "destroy" don't destroy that permanent. A creature with indestructible can't be destroyed by damage.) \ M10-R, M14-R 21:56:27 no wait 21:56:31 I'm stupid 21:56:32 indestructibility doesn't protect you from toughness 0 21:56:53 If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it dies as a state-based action, but the state-based action doesn't destroy it. 21:57:09 yeah 21:57:25 If a creature has enough damage marked on it equal to or more than toughness, than a state-based action does destroy it, so anything that prevents destruction will prevent it. 22:04:32 hmm, I wonder if the Noxious Ghoul / Archangel of Thune / Conspiracy combo would work 22:10:19 I wonder how the limitation of five basic land types can be circumvented here by some strange card that cares about two different creature types in just the right way. 22:10:33 err, I was thinking of Dralnu's Crusade, not Conspiracy 22:10:33 Boldwyr Intimidator probably doesn't help 22:10:38 `card-by-name Dralnu's Crusade 22:10:39 Dralnu's Crusade \ 1BR \ Enchantment \ Goblin creatures get +1/+1. \ All Goblins are black and are Zombies in addition to their other creature types. \ PS-R 22:10:53 it's one of the few cards that mentions two different creature types in an exploitable way 22:11:10 let me look what lorwyn has, it has some interactions between the three minor and five major creature types I think 22:11:21 but it doesn't work as stated as you can't control the order of the minus from Noxious Ghoul and + from Archangel of Thune 22:11:58 Are we allowed to have more than two players for this? 22:13:11 I'd prefer to do it with two if possible 22:13:34 the ideal is to do it with 15 or fewer cards so that you can fit the whole thing into a sideboard and use it as a finisher for the wish variant of Omnitell 22:13:41 that way you could plausibly make it happen in an actual tournament 22:13:55 what's Omnitell? 22:14:34 a Legacy deck, it's a fairly resilient combo deck 22:14:47 besides the obvious objection that the tournament rules would ban this, it doesn't seem very likely to me that you could do this in 15 cards 22:14:49 the end state of the combo gives you the ability to cast any spell in your deck for free 22:15:06 err, repeatedly 22:15:21 ah, so the combo already helps you somewhat, by giving you Omniscience? 22:15:26 normally people use Release the Ants as the finisher, as it's just one card, but you typically get it from your sideboard using Wishes 22:15:31 wob_jonas: yep 22:15:39 `card-by-name Release the Ants 22:15:40 Release the Ants \ 1R \ Instant \ Release the Ants deals 1 damage to target creature or player. Clash with an opponent. If you win, return Release the Ants to its owner's hand. (Each clashing player reveals the top card of his or her library, then puts that card on the top or bottom. A player wins if his or her card had a higher converted mana cost 22:16:06 hehe, I wouldn't have thought of that one 22:16:15 nice 22:17:21 after all, getting it via Cunning Wish is just as good as having it directly in your deck once all spells cost 0 22:17:22 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:17:31 and Cunning Wish is more useful if you draw it naturally 22:18:20 anyway, the idea would be to get an infinite recycling card (e.g. Wheel of Sun and Moon) and Research // Development 22:18:33 that lets you shuffle your sideboard into your library 22:19:09 hmm, you'd also need Divination or the like in order to avoid your library accumulating cards 22:19:16 but all that shouldn't make the deck /much/ weaker 22:19:23 and now you can do anything, like set up a Turing machine 22:20:08 the point is that your maindeck hardly needs changing, and it's a maindeck that can win games 22:21:30 how easy it is to make a mandatory infinite loop with a cooperating opponent where the iteration contains turn boundaries? Panoptic Mirror helps a lot, I think 22:21:52 by cooperating opponent, I mean cooperating before the start of the loop 22:21:57 so after that it still has to be mandatory 22:22:40 the opponent could play four Elixir of Immortality and 56 Plains to lock him down 22:22:48 no wait, not that 22:23:06 um 22:23:55 `card-by-name Eon Hub 22:23:55 Eon Hub \ 5 \ Artifact \ Players skip their upkeep steps. \ 5DN-R 22:23:59 `card-by-name Colfenor's Plans 22:24:02 Colfenor's Plans \ 2BB \ Enchantment \ When Colfenor's Plans enters the battlefield, exile the top seven cards of your library face down. \ You may look at and play cards exiled with Colfenor's Plans. \ Skip your draw step. \ You can't cast more than one spell each turn. \ LRW-R 22:24:07 `card-by-name Stasis 22:24:08 Stasis \ 1U \ Enchantment \ Players skip their untap steps. \ At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Stasis unless you pay {U}. \ A-R, B-R, U-R, RV-R, 4E-R, 5E-R, ME4-R \ \ Stasis Cell \ 4U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step. \ {3}{U}: Attach Stasis Cell to target crea 22:24:24 AFAICT, that combo means that players are skipping all of untap, upkeep, and draw 22:24:30 Oh right, Skip your draw step 22:24:39 I was wondering how you'd prevent decking 22:24:45 so it's trivial to arrang a situation in which nobody can do anything 22:24:49 and there's no natural way to draw out of it 22:25:04 Colfenor's Plans could potentially be enough by itself if there's nothing else on board 22:25:28 (although both players would need one) 22:25:29 Psychic Spiral on a Panoptic Mirror would stop you from decking, but it has an unfortunate side effect 22:25:47 there are plenty of anti-decking cards 22:25:58 yes, but most of them aren't mandatory 22:26:06 for example, 4 Emrakuls and 4 Ulamogs without any way to cast them 22:26:10 ah 22:26:22 if you ever get all 8 in hand, you have to discard one during cleanup and it shuffles your graveyard into your library 22:26:26 or the big Hydra 22:26:39 no, the wording on that is very slightly different 22:26:42 `card-by-name Progenitus 22:26:43 Progenitus \ WWUUBBRRGG \ Legendary Creature -- Hydra Avatar \ 10/10 \ Protection from everything \ If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead. \ CON-M, MMA-M, V11-M 22:26:49 yes, that 22:26:52 `card-by-name Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 22:26:54 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn \ 15 \ Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi \ 15/15 \ Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't be countered. \ When you cast Emrakul, take an extra turn after this one. \ Flying, protection from colored spells, annihilator 6 \ When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library. 22:27:02 Progenitus is in general a lot less abusable 22:27:21 as it only affects itself, not the rest of the graveyard 22:27:28 ok 22:27:30 although I guess in this case, having one card there is enough 22:29:17 anyway, I think 15 cards would be hard because there's a lot of infrastructure you need to make many copies of multiple cards 22:29:23 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:29:35 hmm 22:29:38 although maybe you're right 22:29:52 if you have generic enough anti-decking, plus Omnipotence, then maybe it's not that bad 22:32:28 `card-by-name cackling counterpart 22:32:29 Cackling Counterpart \ 1UU \ Instant \ Create a token that's a copy of target creature you control. \ Flashback {5}{U}{U} (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.) \ ISD-R, C14-R, MM3-R 22:34:12 `card-by-name Elvish Branchbender 22:34:12 Elvish Branchbender \ 2G \ Creature -- Elf Druid \ 2/2 \ {T}: Until end of turn, target Forest becomes an X/X Treefolk creature in addition to its other types, where X is the number of Elves you control. \ LRW-C 22:34:26 not usable 22:34:29 indeed 22:34:35 how did you find it? 22:34:52 looking through all lorwyn block giants, treefolk, and fairies 22:35:08 because those are the minor tribes, and I know some of those cards care about one of the major tribes 22:35:16 (though I don't think it happens to fairies) 22:35:51 `card-by-name Hearthcage Giant 22:35:52 Hearthcage Giant \ 6RR \ Creature -- Giant Warrior \ 5/5 \ When Hearthcage Giant enters the battlefield, create two 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature tokens. \ Sacrifice an Elemental: Target Giant creature gets +3/+1 until end of turn. \ LRW-U 22:35:59 another one that's not usable because it's on an activated ability 22:37:50 What creature types does Shadowmoor and Eventide care about, besides the Lorwyn ones and Warrior? 22:38:25 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:38:38 gah, so close: 22:38:48 `card-by-name soulcatchers' aerie 22:38:51 Soulcatchers' Aerie \ 1W \ Enchantment \ Whenever a Bird is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on Soulcatchers' Aerie. \ Bird creatures get +1/+1 for each feather counter on Soulcatchers' Aerie. \ JUD-U 22:39:02 if only those two creature types were different, it'd be perfect 22:39:16 err, not quite, would implement a different esolang but one that's still probably TC 22:39:19 aren't there a lot of clerics where you could say the same? 22:40:31 hmm, I should look through cards that care about clerics or soldiers. they had a lot of goodies back then. soldiers still have some, but the cleric tribal seems entirely abandonned. 22:41:55 `card-by-name Battletide Alchemist 22:41:56 a search for clerics with "whenever" in their oracle text didn't find anything useful 22:41:56 Battletide Alchemist \ 3WW \ Creature -- Kithkin Cleric \ 3/4 \ If a source would deal damage to a player, you may prevent X of that damage, where X is the number of Clerics you control. \ MOR-R 22:41:57 ok, not entirely 22:42:13 for clerics and soldiers, I'm not expecting anything with two creature types 22:42:49 apart from Rotlung Reanimator but we're already using that 22:43:49 you know about Daru Spiritualist, right? it's useful for infinite healing decks, although there are a lot of other cards that can replace it 22:44:18 I'm probably still going to use it if when I rebuild that deck better, because its cheap mana cost makes it attractive 22:44:28 I saw it, not sure how it helps here 22:45:08 (plus it combos with Starlit Sanctum) 22:49:15 hmm... Panoptic Mirror isn't easy to use, because it has a "may" 22:49:53 `card-by-name faces of the past 22:49:55 Faces of the Past \ 2U \ Enchantment \ Whenever a creature dies, tap all untapped creatures that share a creature type with it or untap all tapped creatures that share a creature type with it. \ SCG-R 22:50:20 that seems really promising as it means we can use a card's ability as one creature type, and its type line (which is very hackable) as another 22:50:36 err, "or", how annoying 22:50:54 the original was ambiguous and I was hoping it'd have been oracled to "and" 22:51:58 `card-by-name Avacyn's Collar 22:51:59 Avacyn's Collar \ 1 \ Artifact -- Equipment \ Equipped creature gets +1/+0 and has vigilance. \ Whenever equipped creature dies, if it was a Human, create a 1/1 white Spirit creature token with flying. \ Equip {2} \ DKA-U 22:52:09 no good 22:54:25 `card-by-name Dread Slaver 22:54:26 Dread Slaver \ 3BB \ Creature -- Zombie Horror \ 3/5 \ Whenever a creature dealt damage by Dread Slaver this turn dies, return it to the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types. \ AVR-R 22:54:33 `card-by-name Alpha Brawl 22:54:33 Alpha Brawl \ 6RR \ Sorcery \ Target creature an opponent controls deals damage equal to its power to each other creature that player controls, then each of those creatures deals damage equal to its power to that creature. \ DKA-R 22:55:14 no, the latter isn't too easy, you can't force it to target the right creature more than one or two ways 22:56:30 !!! 22:56:34 `card-by-name Hungry Lynx 22:56:35 Hungry Lynx \ 1G \ Creature -- Cat \ 2/2 \ Cats you control have protection from Rats. (They can't be blocked, targeted, or dealt damage by Rats.) \ At the beginning of your end step, target opponent creates a 1/1 black Rat creature token with deathtouch. \ Whenever a Rat dies, put a +1/+1 counter on each Cat you control. \ C17-R 22:56:44 oh wow 22:56:50 first two abilities do nothing, third is exactly the effect we want 22:56:58 I wouldn't say they do nothing, but still 22:57:04 yes, the third one is exactly what we need 22:57:09 nothing in this construction 22:57:29 thank you Commander 17 22:57:40 wow 22:57:47 I wasn't expecting to see the exact ability I needed appearing as printed on a single card 22:57:56 yeah, me neither 22:58:32 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:58:57 the one remaining problem is that newly played cards will appear at the wrong toughness but that can be fixed with a huge stack of creature-type-specific anthems 23:00:23 -!- augur has joined. 23:00:35 so that their "natural" stats hit the toughness we need 23:01:36 let's see, what cards do we need altogether? 23:02:03 `card-by-name Brass Herald 23:02:04 Brass Herald \ 6 \ Artifact Creature -- Golem \ 2/2 \ As Brass Herald enters the battlefield, choose a creature type. \ When Brass Herald enters the battlefield, reveal the top four cards of your library. Put all creature cards of the chosen type revealed this way into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. \ Creatures o 23:02:24 wait 23:02:25 triggers: Noxious Ghoul, Faceless Devourer, Hungry Lynx, Rotlung Reanimator 23:02:33 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:42 if that card is in commander 17, then who's updated HackEgo's database such that it's already in it? 23:02:50 when was commander 17 released? 23:03:00 some time in 2017 I guess 23:03:10 core sets were numbered after the following year 23:03:14 but commander sets are numbered after their own year, I think 23:03:35 a moment, I can look this up, there's a really good wikipedia article 23:04:20 2017-08-25 23:04:50 setup: Artifical Evolution, Cackling Counterpart, Blades of Velis Vel 23:05:14 (the Blades make things immune to Noxious Ghoul's effect) 23:05:51 the Blade sounds like it's hard to get out from though 23:05:54 permanent toughness set: lord of atlantis 23:06:03 the Blades are only used on the ROM 23:06:09 to prevent its toughness decreasing 23:06:24 thus they never die or ETB, and we don't need to worry about their toughness randomly /increasing/ 23:06:46 no no. Lord of Atlantis is now a Merfolk, ever since the Lorwyn updates 23:07:09 I think you want Brass Herald 23:07:11 wob_jonas: you Blades of Velis Vel it 23:07:34 so it doesn't die to Noxious Ghoul 23:07:41 and nothing else will have a negative effect on it 23:08:19 it just sits there, being a changeling means it can't be -1/-1'd, and you don't care about how many +1/+1s it gets 23:08:29 I'm getting tired to evaluate this now, but we have logs 23:08:35 channel logs that is 23:08:50 so what do you use to recycle spells? 23:09:03 `card-by-name wheel of sun and moon 23:09:06 Wheel of Sun and Moon \ (g/w)(g/w) \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant player \ If a card would be put into enchanted player's graveyard from anywhere, instead that card is revealed and put on the bottom of that player's library. \ SHM-R 23:09:16 `card-by-name null profusion 23:09:16 Null Profusion \ 4BB \ Enchantment \ Skip your draw step. \ Whenever you play a card, draw a card. \ Your maximum hand size is two. \ PLC-R 23:09:23 hmm 23:09:38 I believe that combo lets you just keep casting spells forever 23:09:44 when you have an empty library, at least 23:09:51 how is that enough? what do you do with spells you don't want? 23:09:59 or cards in your hand that you don't want 23:10:19 well we're assuming that you have your entire deck in your hand and omniscience on the battlefield 23:10:26 (this is the end state of the omnitell combo) 23:10:47 ah, empty library 23:10:55 ok 23:11:18 what do you need to fetch your whole sideboard? 23:11:33 `card-by-name research // development 23:11:33 Research // Development \ GU // 3UR \ Instant // Instant \ Choose up to four cards you own from outside the game and shuffle them into your library. // Create a 3/1 red Elemental creature token unless any opponent has you draw a card. Repeat this process two more times. \ DIS-R 23:11:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:11:55 oh 23:12:03 nice 23:12:49 AFAICT you need WoSaM in your maindeck (at least it's not a terrible card – it hoses some graveyard strategies) 23:12:53 also, um, do you know if Waterfall Model with 350 (or whatever is the current or near-future number of M:tG non-silver-border-only creature types) clocks is TC? 23:12:57 but R//D can be in your sideboard 23:13:23 I don't know what the minimum number of clocks needed for TCness is but it's surely got to be less than that 23:16:41 the idea is that you start the programming (once the combo's setup) using Cunning Wish (from your maindeck) for R//D, WoSaM (from your maindeck) so that you can cast it multiple times, and cantrips from your maindeck to keep redrawing it before you have Null Profusion 23:18:19 actually, even better: the deck naturally features two copies of Emrakul 23:18:53 with Omniscience out, you can get the graveyard recycle by playing one when the other's on the battlefield, and tuhs legend-ruling it so it goes into the graveyard and recycles it 23:22:02 nice 23:23:53 one last thing we need to do is to produce an observable effect, i.e. making someone win when a particular creature dies 23:24:21 and if we're setting this up in a real game we'll probably need to adjust life totals first 23:25:36 don't you also need to animate artifacts or enchantments or something so you can Cackling them? 23:25:54 or is everything you need naturally a creature or sorcery or instant? 23:26:28 all creatures/sorceries/instants in this version, I thiink 23:31:07 even better, they're all nonlegendary 23:33:17 oh, we also need a Donate effect 23:33:20 but that shouldn't be too hard 23:33:57 like Bazaar Trader 23:34:19 Harmless Offering is the obvious choice given that we'll mostly be donating Hungry Lynxes 23:34:40 lol 23:34:44 that's a good one 23:41:06 hmm, we also need a way to get rid of our own setup ability 23:41:10 e.g. by exiling our own hand 23:42:29 Cranial Extraction works, actually even Surgical Extraction is probably enough 23:45:12 could you use Holistic Wisdom to get rid of cards from your hand but also pull double-duty to start the setup? 23:45:21 nah, probably won't help 23:45:53 not infinite enough 23:46:11 also we need to get rid of any ability the opponent might have to make choices 23:46:24 yeah 23:46:46 which means we want to be able to exile their hand too 23:47:08 perhaps Slaughter Games, in that case? 23:47:19 it can exile a nonland card from anywhere but the battlefield 23:47:23 and Cranial Extraction is great because it also lets you exile cards from a graveyard, which is actually relevant against many opponents in an eternal format 23:47:55 Surgical Extraction /only/ lets you do that if the card's in a graveyard, but it costs 4 less 23:48:00 and is a common hate card in eternal formats 23:49:00 wait, Slaughter Games can't self-target 23:49:44 Surgical it is, then, I guess 23:53:27 As a worse possibility, use any split second spell to shut down most choices, and as a response, sacrifice your Wild Cantor to start the program with a death trigger 23:53:37 no wait 23:53:46 in this version you can't start with a death trigger 23:53:53 so that wouldn't work 23:53:55 why not? 23:54:11 don't you only have etb triggers? 23:54:42 there are death triggers on the Faceless Devourers 23:54:50 nah, I'm tired and confused now, I can't think straight 23:54:59 I'll have to file all this until tomorrow 23:55:12 the setup there is nontrivial but it might be possible? 23:55:22 like, the "traditional" start of this is to cast the third copy 23:55:28 but say we stifle it somehow 23:56:05 wait, we're going to need three /physical/ Faceless Devourers for the infinite death trigger loop if we do it like this 23:56:11 so perhaps we should create it some other way 23:56:43 Rotlung Reanimator + a static -2/-2 effect, for example 23:56:50 so that we have a token being created and dying infinitely 23:57:44 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:57:50 oh, that's a nice quick way 23:58:05 but what triggers on the deaths now other than that? 23:58:12 and how do you ensure the correct order? 23:58:17 Noxious Ghoul is watching for the token's creature type 23:58:26 triggering on deaths 23:58:31 we control that as the active player 23:58:51 then if it kills something else at the same time, that gets reanimated by a donated Rotlung Reanimator 23:58:55 under the opponent's control 23:59:04 due to APNAP our trigger stacks first so it resolves last 23:59:46 that sounds exactly like the black magic it is