< 1521160142 640211 :nchambers!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :uplime < 1521160385 320575 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1521160590 282284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/5?//cmds=($1); for i in {1..5}; do \` "${cmds[$((RANDOM % ${#cmds[@]}))]}"; done < 1521160604 606523 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/5? < 1521160606 480033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/q//quote "$@" < 1521160608 705871 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/q < 1521160611 117158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5? w q < 1521160614 960059 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1074) <+kmc> my girlfriend served as an adult control subject for some behavioral research on children [...] <+kmc> she did live on psych studies for a year yeah Is there a control protocol where you don't use people who live off being sociology test subjects \ 323//323 is a quine in McCulloch's first machine. \ furryscript//FurryScrip < 1521160637 932588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/5?//s/$/ | sport/ < 1521160644 598300 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/5?//cmds=($1); for i in {1..5}; do \` "${cmds[$((RANDOM % ${#cmds[@]}))]}"; done | sport < 1521160646 258870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5? w q < 1521160650 916808 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:quadrilateral//Don't you mean "tetrapleur"? \ 134) It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." \ flower//flower. what IS a flower? \ cow//A cow is an animal best se < 1521160656 768720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1521160657 402714 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:rved at minus zero degrees Celsius. \ page//The smallest floating-point number is known as pages. Fungot discovered it. < 1521160710 573689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/5?//s/1/{1:-w q}/ < 1521160712 606192 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/5?//cmds=(${1:-w q}); for i in {1..5}; do \` "${cmds[$((RANDOM % ${#cmds[@]}))]}"; done | sport < 1521160714 13956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5? < 1521160718 522038 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:nnection//Nnections are measured in millibytes per siemens. \ 761) i don't get how people are afraid of parachute jumping but they routinely drive a car in fucking traffic \ codo//The codo button is the dodo's undo button. \ 428) beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ ist//An i < 1521160722 416975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1521160723 93303 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:st is an incomplete list. < 1521161129 930261 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should software written in a interpreted language (and as such ran by software) be called softerware? < 1521161252 113980 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1521161259 330439 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well… < 1521161263 993679 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe once LLVM supports it. < 1521161269 790188 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either as Front-End, or as Back-End, < 1521161277 298962 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :s#d,#d. < 1521161290 441998 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM is ingenious. < 1521161304 732564 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But i still like GNU-Stuffs better because of religious Issues) < 1521163720 534677 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic, LLVM has a bitcode interpreter already < 1521163734 23903 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can interpret your C code, if you really want to do that < 1521163887 31301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1521164145 224574 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521164167 73388 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5? < 1521164171 549335 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:846) it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham \ just//Just is just a just adverb. \ qc//QC is Quantum Computing. \ homophone//Homophones are pairs of words that sound totally gay together. \ 435) Tooth or Bear: Each turn, either take out your own tooth, or wrestle < 1521164177 119865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1521164178 75498 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: a bear. < 1521164198 331166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's no reason to implement 5? this way, this is nonsense. < 1521164225 525884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use `5 choose w q < 1521164248 557809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had something fancier in mind before. < 1521164735 69560 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521164870 414795 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1521165259 310355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have figured out the Hero Mesh file format some more now < 1521165776 350581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should invent a good name for choose. < 1521167187 194628 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1521168661 761653 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1521172669 435295 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1521172671 191184 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521175058 490149 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever seen how APL programmers write C? http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/Incunabulum < 1521176287 410337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can < 1521177480 810838 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521178091 345643 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1521179425 487349 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell that they value conciseness very highly < 1521179443 544483 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1521179748 889128 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521180172 19460 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521181111 342071 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers suck < 1521181361 342444 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-188-107-244-128.188.107.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521181377 315920 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-188-107-244-128.188.107.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1521181512 907221 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1521181627 924186 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521181753 46074 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521182217 420312 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-167-071.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1521182671 367335 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521183427 714710 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1521184009 206644 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521184310 161075 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1521184347 196711 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521184513 372005 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-167-071.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1521185437 937334 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1521188048 672189 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521190045 608851 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xasloaolgilyiglb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1521193203 829108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Meq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54345&oldid=42646 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ Wayback < 1521194241 366191 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1521194543 140394 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521195692 60225 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1521196175 868449 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1521197241 652883 :Naergon_!~Naergon@188.29.165.106.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1521197241 911265 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:35cc:9903:80f6:4ee8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521198910 974800 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1521199985 62905 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521200223 95993 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:35cc:9903:80f6:4ee8 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521200466 21403 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat "bin/5?" < 1521200508 789329 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, prod HackEgo for me, he's asleep again < 1521200509 169134 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: next-position is expecting something that is easy to make it < 1521200514 212468 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1521200608 367260 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1521200613 282928 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmds=(${1:-w q}); for i in {1..5}; do \` "${cmds[$((RANDOM % ${#cmds[@]}))]}"; done | sport < 1521200623 319419 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, fungot. thungot. < 1521200623 501838 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: no worries. < 1521200661 793749 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat "bin/sport" < 1521200662 713562 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :distort "${2:-/dev/stdin}" | spore "${1-1}" < 1521200668 169017 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sport < 1521200673 525337 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? distort < 1521200675 350004 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? spore < 1521200682 10495 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sport divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore. < 1521200682 27957 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :distort? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1521200682 471148 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spore stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam. < 1521200712 599613 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat "bin/spam" < 1521200714 296415 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line /hackenv/tmp/spline < 1521200721 870547 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat "bin/5" < 1521200722 668403 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 5 "$cmd" < 1521200726 469953 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat "bin/1" < 1521200727 702268 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\` "$@" |& sport < 1521200744 821976 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice. so I can just pipe into sport. < 1521202204 793742 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1521202831 336876 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. so < 1521202835 434687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both BFJoust hills are dead? < 1521202912 26965 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1521204169 193858 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521204722 676498 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521205045 627465 :spacial_being328!~ktvrlddx@118.97.151.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521205046 791699 :spacial_being328!~ktvrlddx@118.97.151.246 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521205230 174267 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521205509 92959 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1521205998 976718 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521206154 726512 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust life < < 1521206844 751165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I've been working on migrating it to esolangs.org, but it's taken longer than expected, probably because I started overengineering some bits. < 1521206852 659634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Let me just bring up the zem.fi instance. < 1521206859 178702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's down since a reboot.) < 1521206860 986372 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well :P < 1521206872 8540 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this might be the perfect chance to work on that "#1 ever" ranking < 1521206874 798344 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since everything's down < 1521206971 489779 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1521207032 910342 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to give some indication as to how far I've gotten from a simple migration, I just finished writing a static website generator with Bazel macros. < 1521207046 19997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably lunchtime. Let me know if it doesn't work. < 1521207060 542406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...actually, I'm supposed to be getting alerts if it's down. Wonder what happened to those. < 1521210500 987479 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust going-out-on-a-limb < < 1521210521 52847 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is - invalid? < 1521210532 870785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp invalid character < 1521210598 225581 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521210946 50791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: No, but the command is !zjoust (or !ztest). < 1521210972 712143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The characters [a-zA-Z0-9_-] are valid.) < 1521211017 882557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I migrate it to esolangs.org, I may consider changing the command back to !bfjoust, since it doesn't look too likely the codu.org hill is coming back. < 1521211033 764416 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust going-out-on-a-limb < < 1521211034 139709 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.going-out-on-a-limb: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1521211242 742554 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retrospect, I should've tested what's wrong with the alert before I brought that back up. < 1521211282 367484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alert is based on probing the web endpoint with a POST request in the "test" mode, and checking that returns a 200 status code. < 1521211301 68035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when it's down it still returns a 200 but with an error message payload. < 1521212458 221517 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521212776 122455 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521213575 657139 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:d950:82bb:3550:47d8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521215120 51979 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgbrqabigaeegwiv JOIN :#esoteric < 1521215983 231722 :rumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216182 898626 :fractal!fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521216183 364950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521216183 697104 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521216186 181838 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521216186 815219 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521216199 624860 :rumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble < 1521216580 134510 :Soni!SoniEx2@187.104.132.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216580 325116 :Soni!SoniEx2@187.104.132.56 QUIT :Changing host < 1521216580 325166 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216665 529468 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521216669 332597 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1521216691 484705 :fractal!fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216723 708378 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216746 586906 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org NICK :Guest38837 < 1521216779 905949 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216823 423445 :Guest38837!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Changing host < 1521216823 423513 :Guest38837!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1521216823 482956 :Guest38837!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko NICK :sdhand < 1521217074 201392 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1521217138 563065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1521217845 665943 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1521218002 710494 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1521222760 169758 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1521223980 736619 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1521224047 872958 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521225418 64263 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521225933 903516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1521225933 967050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1521225933 967122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1521225987 235707 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521228704 202893 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521229392 868340 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1521230300 215324 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon JOIN :#esoteric < 1521230627 351036 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521231469 344470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521232752 340009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521232764 246286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521233053 508179 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-61-142.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521233180 307606 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-167-61.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1521233827 663852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-249-177-44.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1521233828 74167 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: before ass'? the tuple approach is an alternative subculture in brisbane. or dark ambient.) emacs is honestly much better < 1521233955 478952 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' < 1521233961 54147 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :451) What does "life" actually mean, anyway; it seems to mean "this thing that's infinitely greater than all my actual hobbies that I do all the time because I rule" < 1521234017 773373 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5? < 1521234027 828301 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:hat//hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo \ 686) ok in other words, its a lot easier to reason about 2^43112609-1 apples by using the text "2^43112609-1" than it is to actually produce 2^43112609-1 apples \ 932) my university spam filter thinks it's okay for someone i have never met to discuss "usd 2,142,728.00 dollars" with me and "NE < 1521234030 886615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1521234031 842924 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:ED MY HELP" etc. however, inviting me to a conference? such a nigerian thing to do. \ stereotype//A stereotype is a two-channel monotype. \ madness//madness lies thataway. < 1521234237 971092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: index notation is too good < 1521234808 96642 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1521234819 275473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1521234837 434128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came up with a really promising tarpit design recently and have already proved it TC in my head < 1521234842 743772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need to work on writing it all down < 1521234846 499732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here are the commands: < 1521234853 679312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I: (*p)++ < 1521234857 155677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: p=*p < 1521234858 771719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1521234883 801919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p initially points to the start of RAM, each element of RAM also initially points to the start of RAM, just like in Three Star Programmer) < 1521234890 187814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is simpler than 3* and also a little easier to prove TC < 1521234922 390960 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on https://esolangs.org/wiki/RAM0 , I for one think that a reduction from 3SP is overcomplicating things. It seems obvious that you can directly emulate a pointer machine with writable heap with RAM0. < 1521234940 605201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, there's a construction from Minsky Machines shown first < 1521234958 506179 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that, you have to program it somewhat like you program a 6502, by keeping all the registers in memory at fixed (low) addresses. < 1521234959 911653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 3* construction is for RAM0-minus-C < 1521234983 668223 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I mean no bignums either. either of those hurt my sense of computational efficiency. < 1521234999 571787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you clearly need at least one bignum < 1521235001 220664 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, it's for RAM0-minus-C. that's different... hmm < 1521235008 719751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you can't access unbounded memory < 1521235013 970570 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, eventually you need arbitrarily large addresses < 1521235023 163897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if you can do it with only one, you can almost certainly do it with two < 1521235050 515702 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1521235053 903183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1521235055 432230 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, I prefer constructions where you can compile a pointer machine in such a way that the slowdown from the pointer model is only a factor of polylog of the execution time < 1521235060 959452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite obvious you can do it with two < 1521235091 960455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think RAM0-minus-CZ can implement cyclic tag in time proportional to the original cyclic tag program < 1521235101 879752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably you want to implement something faster than cyclic tag < 1521235104 814377 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here you can do it easily, you never have to do real arithmetic with bignums, you only have to add small offsets to the pointers to access fields of structures (or of algebraic datatypes or whatever you call them), plus one register that points to the end of the heap for new allocation < 1521235127 191484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, making linked lists and the like < 1521235132 152636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's clever, I was wondering how you did arithmetic < 1521235147 47173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being able to decrement things makes arithmetic in RAM0 pretty hard < 1521235150 768684 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, if you want to remove commands from RAM0 that's different, I wasn't thinking of that < 1521235188 417324 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, I see. sorry, a pointer machine without call stack, and possibly even with read-only heap, is a very natural model of computation for me < 1521235198 113721 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though in practice I do want fast fixed-size integer arithmetic < 1521235202 745166 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1521235203 132785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 said 1d 16h 41m 43s ago: re: Fractran with no deterministic execution order, I believe that's equivalent to Petri nets; apparently it took from 1939 to 1981 before it was discovered to be < 1521235203 132844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :decidable whether a particular state could be reached, and it's known to be EXPSPACE-hard < 1521235206 618417 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for theoretical models I don't care about that < 1521235222 312030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tarpit I'm working on: I means "(*p)++", D means "p=*p", all bignums are valid memory addresses and valid memory values, memory is initially all-zeroes < 1521235232 136177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe this is TC (proved it in my head but haven't written it down yet) < 1521235255 288308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how does "p=*p+=n" parse in C? < 1521235276 751702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd want p=((*p)+=n) < 1521235277 279120 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the pointer machine is what I use a standard for considering the computational model efficient. Ideal is polylog factor slowdown, the lower standard is polynomial slowdown, next lower is exponential, then double exponential. < 1521235295 339298 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that's how it parses in C, yes < 1521235300 931094 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well maybe reachability is harder than halting, then. < 1521235301 504817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's how it parses, but I think it's undefined behavior? < 1521235327 254386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think your proof is for worst-case Fractran < 1521235332 361714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the problem considered there is best-case Fractran < 1521235352 384849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the difference between always getting a particular state, and getting a particular state with at least one evaluation order < 1521235398 947644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, it doesn't violate the same UB rule as "i=i++" < 1521235405 903222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might violate a different one < 1521235437 344783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's defined because the new value assigned to p depends on the old value of p < 1521235449 147422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no other value is being both read or written, or written twice < 1521235482 611774 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh... that strange UB rule in C, I don't remember how it goes < 1521235498 394194 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you assume that p isn't a pointer to p? < 1521235522 562727 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1521235536 176688 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't easily happen in C anyway, because of strong type rules < 1521235546 346179 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521235556 478565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've asked ##c < 1521235570 927325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I changed *p to a[p] so that the data types work out) < 1521235639 877817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe it's not undefined. < 1521235695 76039 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how are a, p, n declareD? < 1521235740 982397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: int a[]; int p; int n; < 1521235743 715376 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521235788 139075 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if &p isn't something that can be put into the array, it should be fine. < 1521235792 4978 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. < 1521235795 213751 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1521235803 64630 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and what are your instructions? < 1521235813 501832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you can view it two ways < 1521235821 171057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either as two commands with no arguments < 1521235825 614934 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :p=a[p]+=n sounds nice, but you probably need something else, something that sets n < 1521235833 704860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in an RLE form, in which case we have one command, p=a[p]+=n, and n is its argument < 1521235841 940528 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's more familiar < 1521235845 877327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a and p are the data storage, and the program is just a list of values of n < 1521235850 829367 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made an abstract machine somewhat similar to that < 1521235870 691163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is comparable to 3*, where the instruction is a[a[a[n]]]++) > 1521236098 722918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ByteByteJump14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54346&oldid=20135 5* 03Ais523 5* (+19) 10+[[Category: OISC]] > 1521236120 828497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MISC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54347&oldid=24993 5* 03Ais523 5* (+19) 10+[[Category: OISC]] > 1521236136 711824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RSSB14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54348&oldid=46149 5* 03Ais523 5* (+19) 10/* External resources */ +[[Category: OISC]] > 1521236157 110130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subskin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54349&oldid=46019 5* 03Ais523 5* (+19) 10+[[Category: OISC]] > 1521236173 595973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Three Star Programmer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54350&oldid=53321 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10+[[Category: OISC]] > 1521236190 111444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TOGA computer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54351&oldid=45610 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10+[[Category: OISC]] < 1521236202 756117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat was being used inconsistently, it was on about half the OISCs < 1521236210 874913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I added it to the other half (that are categorised at all) < 1521236247 460828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i Is cat an esolang? < 1521236257 401851 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My abstract machine uses self-modifying instructions, with the instructions stored in main memory. Each instruction has two arguments stored consecutively; and there's two memory-mapped registers, IP at 1 and a comparison flag at 2. unsigned a[9999] = {/*program*/}; for(;;) { unsigned s = a[a[1]]; a[1]++; unsigned d = a[a[1]]; a[1]++; a[2] = (a[s] < 1521236257 484163 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-= a[d]) < 0; } < 1521236313 119516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Text < 1521236316 545544 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^botsnack < 1521236316 568060 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nom nom nom! < 1521236325 178807 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one where it would be convenient to just write the main loop as a[2] = (a[a[a[1]]] -= a[a[a[1]]]) < 0; but that would result in UB because it's essential for the program to write into the memory-mapped IP < 1521236351 935021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so yes, it's an esolang in the sense of existing on the wiki, just not a very good one < 1521236354 999013 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, IIRC this model doesn't really need self-modification, because it has double-indirection in the instruction. < 1521236367 929734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, however, make for a decent benchmark for kolmogorov-complexity challenges on PPCG < 1521236388 121574 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does it need wraparound, you could use int a[9999]; as the memory and write programs that avoid overflow. < 1521236405 46945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: is this some sort of self-modifying 3*? < 1521236420 762241 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's much more convenient than that < 1521236434 400355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does the a[a[a[]]] come from then? < 1521236452 14984 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows you to directly do arithmetic subtraction and comparison, as long as you keep a guard bit at the top of the machine word < 1521236552 847778 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the outer a[a[]] comes from wanting to allow indirection so you can avoid self-modifying code; the inner a[1] comes because I added a memory-mapped IP so that an instr with 2 as the first operand is effectively a conditional goto that writes the IP iff the comparison in the previous instruction was true < 1521236616 343326 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this is an OISC, you need a way to goto. the more elegant way for that is something like subleq, which has a conditional goto built into the instruction semantics. the less elegant one is to have two special memory-mapped registers like here, one for IP and one for the comparison < 1521236626 193277 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arrange it for somewhat compact code < 1521236677 952892 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This model sucks because I invented it way back in 2005, but I can't uninvent it now. < 1521236703 744475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a really primitive ancestor of 3* < 1521236709 67252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more useful but less elegant < 1521236735 396029 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather compare it to the OISCs of the like of subleq and like five other similar ones < 1521236743 616072 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg q < 1521236753 476896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please delete 5? twh < 1521236754 417242 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11456:2018-03-16 mkx bin/q//quote "$@" \ 9982:2016-12-15 ` mv bin/q quines/q2 \ 9981:2016-12-15 revert \ 9980:2016-12-15 ` q > quines/q2; rm bin/q \ 2691:2013-04-14 mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo < 1521236764 480494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thene come up with a good name for choose < 1521236806 687245 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently everyone invents something like this, sometimes with just one instruction, sometimes two or three or four < 1521236808 965380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tell me why people call vectors contravariant and covectors covariant twh < 1521236818 619478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well this new language of mine ("I/D machine") is both very 3* like, and an OISC if you run-length-encode it < 1521236833 103304 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/5? < 1521236843 166059 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521236847 579331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`owrjan < 1521236848 717803 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1521236867 885870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swrjan s/punster/hero/ < 1521236873 321531 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( ow ) < 1521236874 131375 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud hero is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1521236875 703088 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the non-RLE form, the commands would be { p=a[p]+=n; n=0; } and { n++; } right? < 1521236911 192386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: in the non-RLE form, the commands are { p = a[p]; } and { a[p]++; } < 1521236918 239327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no parameters anywhere < 1521236920 273356 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1521236926 840417 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even simpler < 1521236933 296880 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1521236935 370716 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how woudl that work? < 1521236948 320531 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't supposed to be self-modifying, right? < 1521236954 159188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1521236961 484336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in a similar way to 3* < 1521236966 371762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not quite the same < 1521236970 814833 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1521236982 726743 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think I can see the similarity < 1521236991 487189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the RLE form there's just one command, { p = a[p] += n; } < 1521237010 811821 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the commands are in a single for(;;) loop, right? < 1521237023 843325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1521237056 67056 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like 3SP because you can never decrease the contents of memory cells < 1521237060 296950 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which really limits how you can use memory < 1521237079 815598 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is always nonnegative < 1521237082 678780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1521237085 371211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irreversible programming < 1521237097 479442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess in the RLE form, there's no actual /reason/ to disallow negatiev n < 1521237114 336679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than allowing the language to be converted back into two-command form < 1521237127 158791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my TC construction only uses nonnegative n though < 1521237128 779679 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't that make it reversible? < 1521237158 249602 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's still a tarpit that way, and I don't really see how you program it, probably you need some crazy construction like for 3SP < 1521237159 932459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not reversible in the sense of, say, BackFlip, because it's possible for two elements of a to have the same value < 1521237165 843501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't reverse it because you don't know which it came from < 1521237183 86312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the construction is very similar to the TC construction for 3*, but simpler (and thus easier to prove) < 1521237309 866958 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally different topic. I was reading the story of Fingon and Maedhros in the Silmarillion. These two were best friends who got separated at the burning of the Teler ships, Maedhros being Feanor's eldest son and taking the ships, Fingon taking the hard route. < 1521237385 62870 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Maedhros got captured, and Morgoth made an example of him, chaining him on a tall mountain peak from one of his wrists, sort of Prometheus style, which apparently a first age elf can survive for a long time. < 1521237502 128568 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Fingon decided to both play a hero and show forgiveness for Feanor's sins in a long-shot attempt to reconcile the conflicts amongst the Noldor under the oath, and he decided to try to rescue Maedhros. < 1521237626 893345 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the interesting part of the story is, since Morgoth has caused permanent magical darkness on his lands, Fingon had to find Maedhros by sound. So Fingon took his harp and started to sing, then listened to where Maedhros sang back from. < 1521237728 952652 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is another example showing that "harp" doesn't only mean these huge bulky modern orchestra instruments that you have to carry with a truck and tune for hours before the concert starts, but apparently also older portable stringed instruments. < 1521237875 136489 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a trope on Tvtropes for when you find someone by their singing, as opposed to them just shouting or crying for help? < 1521237933 43285 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1521238004 374359 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been watching Steven Universe, and the season 1 finale has an example of this. < 1521238039 105721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521238039 262787 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521238039 588360 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgbrqabigaeegwiv QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521238039 829901 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521238042 328764 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521238043 188510 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1521238072 680219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238072 680271 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238072 680282 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgbrqabigaeegwiv JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238072 680291 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238072 680300 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238072 680322 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238094 260877 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A prisoner who has the opportunity to break out from her cell wants to find her best friend. They were both captured but separated to different cells, and she finds her by following her singing voice. < 1521238110 607364 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgbrqabigaeegwiv QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1521238134 579627 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case only one of them is singing, not both like in Fingon's story. < 1521238139 396860 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have access to All The Tropes wiki, but do not know what to look up, to find such things, unfortunately < 1521238205 419799 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnbcuwbioxoorqza JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238207 134038 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably a mention of Maedhros and Fingon and the Silmarillion and Saphire singing in a Steven Universe episode < 1521238257 736518 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521238259 203300 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521238350 303376 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1521238373 754150 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: NICK :Guest25915 < 1521238411 867869 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked up [[Steven Universe]] and see nothing about that (but maybe I did not look clearly enough) < 1521238436 551756 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it doesn't seem to be mentioned in SPOILERS http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StevenUniverseS1E49JailBreak < 1521238477 708959 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me start to search for Fingon and Maedhros instead < 1521238513 73279 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot to mention it, but Fingon is the eldest son of Fingolfin. The story makes a bit more sense that way. < 1521238519 781570 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PR to chainlance, btw < 1521238554 955944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK < 1521238604 37870 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/TheLordOfTheRings makes a mention of the episode, but doesn't name a trope for finding someone by singing < 1521238633 57338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the most number of moves that would ever be possible in a reachable chess position? < 1521238697 215924 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, I seem to remember someone has considered that problem, and probably solved it, or at least gave very good bounds < 1521238736 633198 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a similar question: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/fun-with-chess/what-chess-position-has-the-most-number-of-possible-moves < 1521238761 278828 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asks for no promoted pawns, probably because extra queens could increase the number < 1521238799 645312 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/5mazmo/what_is_the_legal_chess_position_where_white_has/ < 1521238847 102502 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I though want to know the answer with promoted pawns. < 1521238890 399018 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter asks that, but I'm not sure it gives a definitive answer, doesn't seem like many people looked in that thread < 1521238923 291816 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this seems more definitive: https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Encoding%20Moves#MoveIndex < 1521238960 355218 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives references to two or three other older disc'n threads < 1521238974 741311 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd look there if you want an answer. that considers promoted men too. < 1521239029 382252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last two looks same except the position of the king < 1521239080 131379 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it answers the question, so, that is good < 1521239083 522851 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they get the same number? if so, I don't think that's a problem < 1521239090 340954 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a proof that it's optimal? < 1521239098 726198 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1521239104 163818 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they give a draft proof that it's optimal? < 1521239179 634533 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not asking if there exists a proof in the mathematical sense, there definitely exists an exponential time brute force one) < 1521239251 499950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a -> (a (\b c -> b)) (\x y z -> (x z) (y z)) < 1521239253 389354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :((p1 -> p2 -> p1) -> ((t1 -> t2 -> t3) -> (t1 -> t2) -> t1 -> t3) -> t4) -> t4 < 1521239289 213810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let i = \a -> (a (\b c -> b)) (\x y z -> (x z) (y z)) in (i i) < 1521239291 139516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :p -> (t1 -> t2 -> t3) -> (t1 -> t2) -> t1 -> t3 < 1521239303 969688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that doesn't look right < 1521239319 983525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there is a shorter proof. I looked at those webpages and they don't mention such a thing < 1521239322 306683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a -> a (\x y z -> (x z) (y z)) (\b c -> b) < 1521239324 475831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((t1 -> t2 -> t3) -> (t1 -> t2) -> t1 -> t3) -> (p1 -> p2 -> p1) -> t4) -> t4 < 1521239333 19772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let i = \a -> a (\x y z -> (x z) (y z)) (\b c -> b) in (i i) < 1521239335 141924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: < 1521239335 159357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: < 1521239335 300009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : p0 ~ t -> p0 -> t < 1521239345 385539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, oddly, more plausible < 1521239398 591380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although still not what I expected < 1521239414 895658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I wouldn't expect Iota to work in a strongly typed language anyway < 1521239430 710743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I don't know if wrenchlance is the best tool, but it's a reasonable enough feature, so sure. < 1521239448 290269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've lost track of the various lances < 1521239452 547391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm happy that they're being discussed < 1521239459 748730 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for an infinite type occurs check, the compiler has some freedom in what error message it gives exactly, so it needn't be what you expect, right? < 1521239464 947449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1521239464 986028 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. < 1521239469 456038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's very reasonable, I have to look them up in the README too. < 1521239486 986615 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I think even for a conflicting type constructors type error, the compiler has that freedom. < 1521239505 846080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make an esolang based on abstract index notation for general functions rather than just linear ones. < 1521239506 242572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this nyuroki2 thing seems new < 1521239512 914169 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what'd you use to achieve that? < 1521239521 337574 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it doesn't. < 1521239555 59598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be an interesting syntax. You label all the inputs and outputs to each function, and they get connected together if you use the same name. < 1521239576 937087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like some sort of dataflow graph? Maybe a language like this already exists. < 1521239590 992278 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, what do you mean by abstract index notation? not just de Bruin indexes to encode lambda calculus terms like Real fast Nora's hair salon 2: shear disaster download right? < 1521239623 663762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: No, I mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_index_notation < 1521239631 741308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like a basis-free version of Einstein index notation. < 1521239658 111628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? real fast nora's hair salon 3: shear disaster download < 1521239660 802750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: have you documented your new winner on the wiki? < 1521239667 494556 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there. < 1521239673 619375 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nope :D < 1521239680 431651 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor the autogeneration shenanigans < 1521239682 671840 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ouch < 1521239799 221393 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction, it's spelled De Bruijn index < 1521239830 855778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of writing f(x,y), you write f_i_j x^i y_j < 1521239839 566920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, y^j < 1521239853 384978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or x^i f_i_j y^j or something, it's commutative. < 1521239910 188435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe f_i_j^k x^i y^j < 1521239918 44477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: is the trail to beat margins? or is there some other reason for it? < 1521239924 287498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the ^k represents the output < 1521239943 992693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function composition can be written like f_i^j g_j^k < 1521239983 852735 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that just naming all the intermediate results in expressions, like you have to do in prolog? < 1521240009 842575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really thought it through. < 1521240012 629148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: gearlance's threaded-code implementation has (generally, anecdotally) outperformed the fancier lances. It's got two "multi-program" binaries, gearlanced (which I use to run the hill, though the interface it has is terrible) and genelance. I guess for a really really big hill your mileage may vary. < 1521240017 627397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I've thought about running the "every distinct program in the repository history" tournament, assuming the O(n^2) for that is feasible, but never got around to it. < 1521240023 18364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe this syntax would make more sense for dealing with linear types. < 1521240059 972002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a single value x^i^j isn't really the same as a pair of values x^i and y^j, it has more information. < 1521240120 574391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can always go from x^i and y^j to z^i^j = x^i y^j, but not in the other direction in general.) < 1521240203 70962 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I've completely forgotten. :D < 1521240217 623447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why I document my winners soon after they win :D < 1521240235 117339 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm getting ~11000 programs < 1521240244 235301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins is weird anyway, it tries to win by winning on tape length 10 and drawing everything else < 1521240247 761014 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are programs in repository history the ones that got on the leaderboard? < 1521240264 353136 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ladder or whatever it's called noe < 1521240286 652274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: This is all very clear with tensors but it's not quite as clear what it would mean in other contexts. < 1521240311 963071 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"all very clear with tensors" < 1521240319 299570 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521240324 624488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It's everything submitted in non-test mode, because the operating logic on the zem.fi hill is that whenever you submit something, you always get on the hill (replacing the current worst program, or the previous version if using the same name). < 1521240354 122888 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1521240362 399503 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current version of Nyuroki's similar to margins, in that it makes bets on tape length, I guess. It wins tape lengths ~10-12, loses ~13-16 (by suicide), and wins ~17+. Against some bots, it starts losing again on very long tapes. < 1521240363 600393 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be even more programs < 1521240383 427416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the codu.org hill had some special-casing so that you had to get a non-worst result in order to get permanently committed. < 1521240385 119205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Maybe string diagrams are a good way to think about it. < 1521240390 712337 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :11000 is after normalization, so. < 1521240412 289028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single object with two lines coming out of it can be more things than two separate objects with one line each. < 1521240425 155605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Where are you getting these programs from? < 1521240425 965844 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if it's too many, you could filter them to exclude programs that only appeared in the bottom one or two ranks < 1521240451 216268 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, A merge of egobot and zemhill < 1521240474 117923 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is it ranks? < 1521240483 183453 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever do you call positions on a ladder? < 1521240494 355387 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rungs"? < 1521240521 647263 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1521240525 603897 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a guess. < 1521240586 544245 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be right if it's rung. < 1521240593 859569 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rung" seems right from a dictionary, but I didn't even remember passively that that noun existed < 1521240618 136025 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looking at it, it's mostly a numbers adjustment < 1521240651 350212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of terminology in BF Joust. In the overengineered esolangs.org reimplementation, I'm using "duel" for a single match between two programs with a specific tape length and polarity; "joust" for the results of two programs with all 42 tape/polarity settings; "bout" for the results of one program against everyone else on the hill; and "tournament" the whole matrix. Not sure if those exactly < 1521240655 878379 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they be called "step"? if not, does that work for the positions in a flight of stairs at least? < 1521240657 359004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :match standard terminology. < 1521240657 953590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice that things like nyuroki can still do well < 1521240667 259222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course there's kettle/sieve.) < 1521240668 81017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that works for stairs, also for stepladders < 1521240675 130053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't thnk it works for regular ladders < 1521240680 913848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that terminology makes no sense :-D < 1521240688 73906 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses faster rushes when it detects a decoy conflict (rather than the small ones it used to), and I replaced the flag repair with an outright one-time probabilistic lock < 1521240699 358164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step's possibly reasonable for a metaphorical ladder though. < 1521240710 713500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ooh, I'm glad probabilistic locks are catching on < 1521240712 362732 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between a stepladder and a regular ladder? < 1521240720 611567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Words are arbitrary. < 1521240735 754631 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, I made sure to time it exactly when a 2-cycle clear that skips all the decoys would clear. < 1521240744 467294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it's easiest to tell from a photo, you might want to try an image search < 1521240751 781089 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, a moment < 1521240753 838100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a stepladder is basically like a very aspect-ratio-distorted set of stairs < 1521240782 424316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an arithmetic sequence of flat surfaces, highly offset vertically, slightly offset horizontally < 1521240790 899634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can stand on a single step of a stepladder if you have good balance < 1521240818 695609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, stepladders are nearly always V-shaped, having a "stand" at the back, so that you can place them in the open and all the steps will be at the right orientation < 1521240843 68008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular ladders tend to be an arithmetic progression of small cylinders that it'd be very hard to place anything on, and work in a much wider range of orientations (including horizontally) < 1521240857 699743 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that latter, from an image search, a stepladder seems to be A-shaped so you don't have to lean the top to anything, it stands on four legs < 1521240858 547648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you normally have to hold onto them at multiple locations to keep your balance < 1521240874 298021 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's two different differences < 1521240875 952199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First-time buyers: reaching for that first rung" (regarding the "property ladder", which is also sort of non-physical). < 1521240877 947396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right, that's one of the properties that stepladders usually (always?) have < 1521240893 867204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now I'm imagining a physical property ladder < 1521240901 419226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally a stepladder so that the houses don't fall off :-D < 1521240916 705426 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one property is wide vs narrow beams to step on, the other is back legs at the bottom < 1521240921 706772 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem to be the same < 1521240936 378036 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for getting onto cellars, we usually use ladders that have wide steps but don't have a back leg < 1521240975 679306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a ladder is permanently fixed to a particular location, it's considered a ladder even if it has wide steps and not narrow rungs < 1521240982 484255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, I'm not sure there's actually a term for it, that's rare here < 1521241093 385016 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still like three different kinds of these cellar laddres, (1) completely fixed to the building like stairs, might be called stairs, the difference being that the steps don't have a vertical back part, (2) simple ladder that has two legs at the bottom and is leant to the edge of the opening, and only friction at the bottom stops it from slid < 1521241093 514113 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing down from the hole, and < 1521241151 475500 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) hinged or collapsible ladders that are fixed at the top, so the top holds all of the ladder's own weight and some of your weight, although you lean them on the floor for support when in use < 1521241358 279484 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually < 1521241367 871904 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The anti-defense loop is now a 7-cycle instead of 5-cycle too < 1521241428 741084 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: write all that in the source code as comments and nominate a new version so this useful info gets saved in a convenient place? < 1521241475 279253 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think ([-+..--])*2 is more sound than it seems. Since it comes after an offset clear, there's no way a defense program's synched to it. So, the average flag value will drift over time, while the anti-defense loop tries (most) combinations of two of +-. over its execution. < 1521241488 247256 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a phyisical property ladder would be a tiered city like the movie version of minas tirith < 1521241494 231405 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning if it was the flag, it should have already won by the time it observes two zeros. < 1521241543 511995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes, that sort of clear loop is fairly good as counter-defence < 1521241567 635312 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1521241671 199567 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I do have an idea for a real improvement that isn't just numbers < 1521241701 892165 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decoy clash is also some evidence that the enemy is doing a reverse decoy setup, thus, stealth3's decoy skipping is a good idea. :D < 1521241926 960220 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I'm not sure it's worth a writeup for "Numbers were tuned, it now goes faster when it can" :p < 1521242027 305825 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think there are two more updates to Abstruse Goose < 1521242043 574493 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`aglist http://abstrusegoose.com/581 < 1521242049 885911 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aglist http://abstrusegoose.com/581: b_jonas shachaf < 1521242061 874367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you deleted that. < 1521242145 808625 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't follow which ones I deleted, and I think I'm allowed to use deleted ones too, they're still greppable in the logs < 1521242170 428785 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think there's one I used but never even created, one of ehlist or bobadventureslist < 1521242186 290714 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg ehlist < 1521242189 397417 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1521242194 936029 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/ehlist < 1521242195 361911 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11364:2018-02-28 forget ehlist \ 7216:2016-03-14 learn ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/ < 1521242199 481551 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/bobadventureslist < 1521242204 935140 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11365:2018-02-28 rm bin/ehlist \ 7215:2016-03-14 `` echo b_jonas >> bin/ehlist \ 7214:2016-03-14 makelist ehlist < 1521242209 703216 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521242222 346721 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter then < 1521242233 483038 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I invoked bobadventureslist several times < 1521242243 170503 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it updates so rarely that it's worth < 1521242425 7175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa, you're editing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_index_notation < 1521242816 563907 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i? < 1521242874 713205 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so i am < 1521242938 544958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I just realized that abstract index notation is just a text syntax for string diagrams. < 1521242941 597147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best. < 1521242989 791477 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1521243033 680508 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BONSŒØIRJAN. < 1521243112 39947 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1521243177 379585 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bood evenily. < 1521243269 934561 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellob_jonas. < 1521243309 343095 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521243358 842288 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521243909 106641 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521244535 743412 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thirteen percent of the U.S. population consumes pizza on any given day." < 1521244594 721548 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1521244710 743725 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400530/pdf/DBrief/11_consumption_of_pizza_0710.pdf