< 1521244828 741409 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ah, that says 13% of the population aged over 2 years. that's a bit less than 13% of the population. < 1521244953 309339 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1521245490 339830 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a pizza a sandwich? < 1521245509 977036 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pizza < 1521245513 493168 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sandwich < 1521245513 860935 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb. < 1521245514 654060 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sandwich? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1521246057 687841 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? harp < 1521246057 747314 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's running :) < 1521246059 608495 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :harp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1521246097 685407 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521246141 629836 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/edAFCgg.png :D < 1521246248 185414 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the computational complexity of matrix scoring? < 1521246251 903169 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon JOIN :#esoteric < 1521246260 399103 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a 11000x11000 matrix a problem < 1521246299 43835 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n^3) < 1521246320 794402 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... so, one multiplication is 1.331×10¹² operations? :( < 1521246342 919200 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: huh? < 1521246355 810228 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what scoring? < 1521246357 687416 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521246359 552441 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For bfjoust < 1521246380 421680 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in bfjoust, don't you just score programs by adding up their scores in all duels, and ranking them by the total? < 1521246395 97926 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the wiki < 1521246463 703704 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to explicitly say. it says how a match is scored, but not how a program is scored on the hill depending on its match scores. < 1521246503 455448 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the raw score < 1521246515 836951 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how are programs ranked? < 1521246524 300368 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a matrix algorithm (similar to pagerank) that is less sensitive to a lot of similar "garbage" programs < 1521246530 766785 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix math < 1521246656 890060 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want something like pagerank, which computes the eigenvector for the largest eigenvalue or something, I believe on a 11000x11000 matrix you can get a good machine precision approximation in waitable time on modern machines < 1521246669 306042 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have to ask the people who work with large matrixes if you want to be sure < 1521246683 554718 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theoretical asymptotic complexity is less relevant < 1521246869 204180 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ < 1521246872 483856 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algorithm's discussed here < 1521246889 964686 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I see < 1521247150 569801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about the broken MathJax, by the way. < 1521247167 555444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also going to be fixed by the migration. :) < 1521247186 528270 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it practical to calculate on 11000x11000? < 1521247224 432795 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with heavy math on lots of data like this < 1521247345 838435 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your "lots of data" is usually someone else's "small dataset" though < 1521247369 593828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is "yes, but you might need to be slightly more clever than the page implies". < 1521247397 232090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like we're doing PageRank by multiplying billion-times-billion matrices either. < 1521247427 516293 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, they have more processing power and memory than a 2014 laptop though < 1521247438 313174 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1521247444 330611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course the BF Joust scoring matrix is dense, unlike the adjacency matrix of the interweb.) < 1521247447 240665 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relative to my resources. :D < 1521247470 622549 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but luckily being clever is easy here, because there are libraries with highly optimized and reliable functions for this kind of numerical computation < 1521247481 423314 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can off-load the cleverness to those existing libraries < 1521247504 849959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I meant the general "you", not the specific "you". < 1521247529 530728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The existing implementation the hill runs on is decidedly not clever.) < 1521247599 859194 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1521247692 213131 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know matrix math < 1521247700 31698 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain all this about eigenvalues :D < 1521247765 916943 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :208/10844 warriors done so far < 1521247813 536815 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: for pagerank, you have a square matrix a with nonnegative elements. a(i,j) tells how much page i says that page j is cool. pagerank assumes that cool pages are to be trusted more for telling what other pages are cool. < 1521247899 938968 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wish, you can consider that an iteration process, where in first approximation, an all-ones vector is your guess of coolness, and in each step, you update it like c:=a*c, and that's a matrix multiplication, so the new coolness approximation says how cool pages are according to pages that are cool per the previous approximation. < 1521247975 277827 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this process will converge (if you also normalize the vector for constant multiplications) to a coolness vector that satisfies the equation c=a*c, and that c is the eigenvector for the largest eigenvalue of a < 1521247980 450582 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of how this works < 1521248016 445399 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a competition, you might want to do something similar, in that you consider a program cool if it often beats cool programs. < 1521248046 559912 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's some freedom in how you want to convert match scores to the elements of a < 1521248057 898322 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to be positive, but still there's more than one way < 1521248076 500633 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you can use algorithms less dumb than the simple pagerank < 1521248082 11049 :Soni!SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1521248176 830388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Note that you don't *have* to do what's now called "Markov scoring" -- the codu.org "traditional" scoring is easier to compute, and still has some degree of giving you more score for beating stronger opponents. < 1521248207 741615 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also do some sort of multiple-round elimination tournament for that < 1521248242 633538 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in each round, rank by the total of some function of the match scores, then eliminate a number of the lower ranking players, the rest advance to the next round < 1521248244 79336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go patch in the MathJax changes to the zem.fi copy, it's ridiculous how broken that page is. < 1521248270 525600 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in later rounds you only have better programs, so the ranking starts to indicate how programs perform against thsoe < 1521248287 631034 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the traditional solution for competitions where matches are random and costly, like a lot of human sports < 1521248294 214802 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1521248298 494019 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a traditional solution, not the only one < 1521248305 166302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: https://twitter.com/shachaf/status/974811286474129408 hth < 1521248327 892272 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, it's optimized not only for getting a good final result, but also for making the later rounds more interesting to watch < 1521248344 475071 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we might not care about because bfjoust isn't really a spectator sport < 1521248408 388192 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a bfjoust tournament as a spectator sport, with programs playing live in a stadium in front of thousands of viewers, some famous reporter commentating on them, and the whole thing broadcast live in television < 1521248426 951069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, the https://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ page should be unbroken again. < 1521248448 4650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then some famous reporter should learn bfjoust if they want to make the comment of it. < 1521248575 111017 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: REFERENTIAL CHICKEN < 1521248674 470060 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there'll be heated debates among fans about duels where a program supposedly cheated, or the referee was unfair, or about which historical rules changes that have ruined the game forever. < 1521248718 407796 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer can do it automatically so that you do not need to worry if the program is cheated. Arguments about historical rule changes can still be possible though. < 1521248730 717505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That flag was definitely zero for two cycles there!" < 1521248775 756772 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or you can consider it cheating if someone optimizes their submission too specifically against the current leading programs < 1521248894 567102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I suppose they can argue about if they can consider that cheating, too, but don't they do such a thing in Magic: the Gathering anyways? If the card isn't banned then it isn't cheating. And if it is making a tournament on the television then they don't know anyways what is the other program, to know what to submit or not < 1521248898 297992 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'd want markov scoring < 1521248907 172668 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because "all programs ever" is going to be full of steaming garbage < 1521248971 815422 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is going to be sad if margins3 has a garbage rank because no markov scoring :P < 1521249054 954958 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: more importantly, it's not the program that'd be cheating, but the people who write the program, and it's not so absurd to imagine a spectator sport where players *write* bfjoust programs, it's only absurd to watch a spectator sport where the programs are already present and battling each other < 1521249107 619757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Well, the tweaked traditional scoring is more margins3-friendly, if not quite as friendly as Markov scoring. < 1521249183 159886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1521249212 663022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes, and it is what I meant, you have to write a program. And you also have to agree to appear on the television in order to do so. < 1521249214 163431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the Markov thing should really be doable for that size. < 1521249216 530093 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki's a better middle ground on the idea, I guess. It tries to win on score and markov by giving up 2-5 tapes lengths per program < 1521249219 658891 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1521249225 492251 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to give margins a fair chance since it's clever < 1521249226 146014 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1521249264 89958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I really don't know if it can ever work as a television show; I just gave some idea to improve it in case it ever was. < 1521249337 472244 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, but the point is, since the matches itself won't be spectator sport, there's not much point optimizing the scoring method to one where people can see lots of interesting matches live < 1521249363 184949 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where I started this comment, although I got carried away < 1521249375 656102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1521249398 217093 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1521249439 962155 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? overlord < 1521249441 143821 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil overlords do evil acts like taking over the world, kicking puppies, and changing their own wisdom entries. < 1521249469 777626 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they also hover over the masses? < 1521249520 753797 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bfjoust < 1521249521 926971 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. < 1521249522 531056 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bf joust < 1521249524 288483 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf joust? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1521249683 669968 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521250832 887057 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1521250994 921270 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`starwars 5 < 1521251009 228618 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :K-2SO \ Darth Bane \ Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo \ Greedo \ General Armitage Hux < 1521251022 883837 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1521251078 865434 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, eventually I'll have to update this with characters from the movie this year. I think we already know the name of two significant ones. < 1521251089 943163 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two new significant ones that is. < 1521251137 559462 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :10% done with the cranklancing :D < 1521251147 498704 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I should consider advancing starwars so that it can pick the alternate names like "Darth Vader" and "Darth Sidious", but still know that it's the same as the other name for the same character and not pick the two together when there's a numeric argument. < 1521251160 640418 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current state where it just never says "Darth Vader" is boring. < 1521251187 276084 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, about 14 hours for the whole hill < 1521251221 29501 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1521251258 135041 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or < 1521251261 2869 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100 matchups per second < 1521251269 29340 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. doing the math backwards < 1521251270 694250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: You're using the crank now, instead of the gear? I think that's going to generate an unreasonable number of statistics. < 1521251276 769436 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1521251277 926740 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crank < 1521251284 644657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still wrench? < 1521251292 613781 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrenchlance < 1521251293 136942 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1521251300 181355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The names aren't confusing at all, what do you mean. < 1521251346 273391 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :By this math < 1521251368 386556 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wel < 1521251375 390767 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can support a hill of 1000 warriors < 1521251383 441640 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving 1 second per new submission < 1521251399 587549 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should benchmark gearlance too < 1521251457 740800 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it sort of depend on what submission it is? for a submission that draws by timing out a lot, computing matches might take longer. < 1521251500 567335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the cycle counts (which probably correlate pretty well with real time) vary quite a lot, yes. < 1521251503 573807 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/bfjoust/vis/cycles/ < 1521251515 539850 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1521251518 288174 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100 is average < 1521251521 416160 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among all < 1521251535 997004 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.9G run/evaluation_tmp/ < 1521251539 745673 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cost of wrenchlance < 1521251542 375499 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDK if it's worth it < 1521251543 197562 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :tb < 1521251544 591704 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh* < 1521251545 11261 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1521251592 135557 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've already started < 1521251600 511349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: If you ran a tournament of 11000 programs with cranklance, it would generate 913 GiB of statistics in the compact GearTalk packed format. < 1521251623 768260 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 lymia lymia 1.1G Mar 16 20:53 evaluation.txt < 1521251632 199160 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my dump of matchup matrixes straight to disk < 1521251638 863407 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have enough memory to store it in RAM < 1521253077 739183 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? game < 1521253084 537892 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :game? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1521253290 351311 :wob_jonas!b03f18f5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.245 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1521253572 18542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Qwertyu6314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54352&oldid=54037 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (-3225) 10 > 1521254072 644843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Number Factory14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54353 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+161) 10Created page with "3snoW, thank you for taking the time to play around with Number Factory. --~~~~" < 1521254318 873063 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521254387 734909 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm thinking of running cranklance for a "top 200 ever" or something < 1521254460 661413 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Canonical name" of a program is the first ever appearance of it. < 1521254517 851460 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, recursively remove the top program by markov scoring, and all other programs with the same canonical name, find first again < 1521254522 351250 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get the top 200 distinct programs < 1521254613 858592 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH < 1521254655 671130 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521254956 930349 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, minor complaint "Conceptually, each program is allocated a uniform score" <- it doesn't say what the uniform score to begin with is < 1521255037 225249 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let p(a) be the stationary distribution reached from the uniform initial distribution. To get numbers more closely approximating the traditional scores, we set the Markov score s_a of a program to s_a=1000*p(a)." < Doesn't this only make sense with a certain starting value? > 1521255580 38085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Qwertyu6314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54354&oldid=54352 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+6) 10 < 1521255672 151563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Well, the word "distribution" implies \sum_a p(a) = 1. But it's true that the description is maybe a little vague. < 1521255689 606173 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1521255704 987355 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... is a fixed 1000*p(a) actually correct? < 1521255718 532407 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the scores go wonky on a 11000 program hill? < 1521255725 318673 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Smaller or larger than the 50 program hill) < 1521255733 183557 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I should expect it to theoretically behave < 1521255749 615356 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to revive redcode or something < 1521255762 616446 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun to write redcode programs, but all the various hills are barren < 1521255764 936478 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:d950:82bb:3550:47d8 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1521255813 221729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I would expect them to be much smaller, assuming there is a large group of reasonably large programs. < 1521255839 77627 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was redcode "solved"? < 1521255846 29716 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just stagnant < 1521255857 8317 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1521255863 941691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...s/reasonably large/reasonably good/. I don't know what I was thinking. < 1521255866 953662 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, why not try and remake it or something? < 1521255899 833846 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The R16K1S60 (a computer built in a game, The Powder Toy) has a nice RISC instruction set that could be modified into a program useful for that kind of thing < 1521255915 961184 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/program/ISC/ < 1521255933 159077 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1521255951 511839 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect redcode stagnated < 1521255954 121680 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which BFJoust is < 1521255959 852089 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really possible to make a ultimate solution for it < 1521255983 919944 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've figured out most of the major strategies (seemingly) already, so everything remaining kinda has a fixed metagame. < 1521255984 311361 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs can modify eachother's sourcecode, so it makes sense why that's not possible < 1521256220 40400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: The factor of 1000* really comes from the fact that on a hill of size 47 (which is what ours is), the average p(a) is by definition 1/47 = 0.021, multiplying by a 1000 makes that a 21 which is a "reasonable" number. < 1521256350 457225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, there's a degenerate case for the Markov scoring -- if you do manage to evolve that program that wins against the entire current hill at all tape lenghts and polarities, it will get a score of 1000 and all the others will get a score of 0.0, which will make the sorting somewhat unstable. < 1521256626 683223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another fun equivalent view to understand the scoring is that it's just the probability distribution for which program you end up standing on, if you do a long enough random walk and choose your steps with the probabilities t_a,b. < 1521256724 156485 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only stuff like redcode and bfjoust didn't stagnate so fast ): < 1521256768 188692 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did put that program on the hill < 1521256770 835727 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just took it off < 1521256771 385234 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1521256778 857223 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it was very unresistant to programs it never saw < 1521256783 4554 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was fouling up the hill < 1521256798 874542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot it did happen. < 1521256807 1864 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of happy it didn't break any worse then. < 1521256862 658225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lymia.kiseki: points 45.83, score 999.98, rank 1/47" right. < 1521256878 513674 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that version bad a bug < 1521256883 797416 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did get the 46.00 < 1521256904 42467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, it's a few lines later. < 1521257029 744213 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a good thing < 1521257033 643228 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it only converged to 999.98? < 1521257907 962082 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521258863 505189 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if befungejoust could be a thing < 1521259199 991687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd that work < 1521259558 521864 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ < 1521259735 774384 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many variations of leonid__lols.bfjoust are there < 1521259737 729367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way to compress a chess game recording in the computer is to enumerate all possible moves and determine how many bits is needed, and then figure which mode is made and then record that number using the number of bits needed. But then there is also such thing to consider as resigning, drawn game, and annotations. < 1521259763 73717 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I believe this is called huffman tree compression < 1521259796 551798 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well. idk, maybe arithmetic coding < 1521259884 852729 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it isn't; a real Huffman tree does not have any unusable codes, because they are shortened in that case. < 1521260078 329423 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another alternative would be to use a large number, and then to figure how many possible moves, divide by that number and the remainder indicates the current move and the quotient is then used to repeat this for the next move. However, I don't know how difficult/complicated that might be. < 1521260536 19128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And because Open Game is common, it might be worth to assign a code specifically for that case.) < 1521260573 765306 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :next question is < 1521260582 627837 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much more efficient is it over just .tar.xzing the whole thing < 1521260658 188596 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I don't know. Still it needs to compress some sort of format, probably PGN. < 1521261246 382329 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say < 1521261258 560659 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably PGN is good enough < 1521261267 240771 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tar.xz can even compress things like very common openings < 1521261282 659463 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very compact initial coding like that might be worse < 1521261293 140000 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it inhibits general compression from seeing other useful patterns < 1521261366 770495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is solid compression then yes you can compress common openings easily, I think. I don't know how .xz is working, but with DEFLATE at least it helps to not pack things in individual bits and to use bytes instead. < 1521261533 256374 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521262064 363957 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how I do an unfold in J? < 1521262767 718639 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521262888 944981 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521265467 647469 :[GautamS]!~hermes@unaffiliated/gautams JOIN :#esoteric < 1521265709 288039 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521266027 748015 :[GautamS]!~hermes@unaffiliated/gautams QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521267119 582525 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :moonythederp < 1521267210 29221 :moonythederp!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :moony < 1521267394 55269 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521267501 188025 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1521267998 885258 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. > 1521268598 389372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I/D machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54355 5* 03Ais523 5* (+4064) 10new language; this page is unfinished but it's worth posting what I have so far > 1521268689 643904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54356&oldid=54343 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10/* I */ +[[I/D machine]] > 1521268714 284188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54357&oldid=54024 5* 03Ais523 5* (+17) 10+[[I/D machine]] < 1521269187 245198 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo < 1521269229 172145 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :..wow < 1521269232 111766 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nicely done < 1521269300 916132 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to go implement that in the R16K1S60, just for fun. it's so simple > 1521269902 427996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I/D machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54358&oldid=54355 5* 03Ais523 5* (+81) 10/* One-command view */ clarify the implicit-loop nature of this < 1521269927 565007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to RAM0 for getting me thinking along these lines > 1521270345 57056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OISC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54359&oldid=52673 5* 03Ais523 5* (+173) 10/* List of OISCs */ +[[I/D machine]] < 1521270525 872884 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521271414 3411 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnbcuwbioxoorqza QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1521271708 380434 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i don't quite get how the I/D machine is turing. It's kinda mystical to me < 1521271710 40097 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1521271803 952035 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's also amazingly easy to implement. https://hastebin.com/udulefubup.pl < 1521271814 616930 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So thats a thing < 1521271965 69075 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521273208 338100 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it ask to enter your name for the high score, why won't this game let you to type numbers? < 1521273971 202531 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521274360 883615 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1521276187 80714 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only the high score but also the save games. And punctuation doesn't work either. < 1521276839 855624 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1521276865 894794 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've invented a program to convert asm-like expressions to brainfuck < 1521276876 15791 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, load relative address, etc < 1521276884 34292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, did you post it? < 1521276896 779776 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's not really noteworthy < 1521276904 566318 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :just want to brag :P < 1521276920 354331 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK < 1521278104 388496 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SopaXorzTaker, bragging is a bannable offense < 1521278107 731290 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/s < 1521278124 252908 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, needs some fixup with relative addressing inside of loops < 1521278611 22071 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun stuff: you can do an LDA to load a cell address < 1521278618 5990 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :automagically! < 1521278676 808949 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, is it possible to load the address to zero? < 1521278695 575718 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's not possible to know how much should it be decremented by < 1521278779 871731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the possibility to do if you store stuff in between cells to be able to deal with addressing < 1521279661 754770 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, hmm > 1521280762 349817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sane theinsane 5* 10New user account < 1521284295 936892 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1521284533 873437 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2432:e17c:f992:e617 JOIN :#esoteric > 1521284915 307804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Haddock14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54360&oldid=54146 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-23) 10Correct the category > 1521285172 214587 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:I/D machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54361 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+2612) 10Some notes. > 1521285222 864585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:I/D machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54362&oldid=54361 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+86) 10Forgot to sign. < 1521285290 881340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1521285330 952980 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar PAMR < 1521285332 380290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAMR 171053Z 00000KT 10SM SCT018 OVC050 01/01 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP168 T00060006 < 1521285764 480483 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ESSB < 1521285765 398929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESSB 171050Z 34008KT 9999 SCT033 M02/M10 Q1031 R30/19//59 < 1521285948 17064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp fallacy < 1521285992 231711 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. > 1521286078 777578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HashHell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54363&oldid=49065 5* 03Zseri 5* (-108) 10 < 1521286871 156822 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86CEFA.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1521287264 693073 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 lymia lymia 9.8G Mar 17 06:12 evaluation.txt < 1521287271 532535 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :finished the 11000 program BFJoust hill < 1521287567 635217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long did it take to run? < 1521288250 211702 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :~10 hours < 1521288327 587954 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to try and crunch it @.@ < 1521289436 380178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1521290502 864539 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1521291629 111126 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521291760 263147 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1521292288 633090 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1521292972 72557 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86CEFA.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1521294168 507258 :Guest25915!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: NICK :sdhand < 1521294168 507336 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Changing host < 1521294168 567149 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1521295826 588096 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. > 1521296796 891032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54364&oldid=54331 5* 03Sane theinsane 5* (+121) 10 > 1521296836 701171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hatemath14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54365 5* 03Sane theinsane 5* (+1264) 10Created page with "== ABOUT hatemath == '''hatemath''' is an esoteric programming language that was created by Saketh Suresh in 2018.The language uses 8 commands 1 for printing, 3 for telling th..." > 1521297157 685128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54366&oldid=54356 5* 03Sane theinsane 5* (+15) 10/* H */ > 1521298632 14280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stack Up14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54367&oldid=52518 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+4) 10 < 1521298634 100666 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpcilnwnjggcawhh JOIN :#esoteric < 1521298652 686854 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521298786 950978 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1521298791 496165 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1521298882 781758 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-167-61.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1521299157 787009 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521305103 959928 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/006aa5aa00a0b1547970406dc22d524645ca9b30.txt < 1521305111 371743 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Best ever in bfjoust", raw scores < 1521305169 636509 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is with no 'best in class' algorithms/etc, so < 1521305184 887840 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of duplicates for the people who optimize on ladder < 1521305185 754373 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1521305408 599546 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kiseki is in the garbage where it belongs, at least < 1521305738 580663 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:2432:e17c:f992:e617 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521306430 942913 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( shachaf is on twitter? ) < 1521306496 655509 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/a92e2a22c2a1d9fa3cee559fd50d4cce7f7d1c03.txt Evaluations done. :D < 1521306500 411234 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to try and do Markov on this < 1521306505 540120 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tell ais523 https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/a92e2a22c2a1d9fa3cee559fd50d4cce7f7d1c03.txt < 1521306511 366802 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or whatever it was < 1521306750 710546 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1521307978 638171 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521308684 589861 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: @tell < 1521308714 78838 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/a92e2a22c2a1d9fa3cee559fd50d4cce7f7d1c03.txt < 1521308714 566561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. > 1521308881 378904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54368&oldid=54344 5* 03ZM 5* (+124) 10 < 1521309045 702823 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521309413 872376 :ivzem!4db31243@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.179.18.67 JOIN :#esoteric > 1521309421 852985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54369&oldid=54368 5* 03ZM 5* (+417) 10More information overall < 1521309647 626020 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1521309729 228092 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1521309831 21582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54370&oldid=54369 5* 03ZM 5* (+285) 10remembered one more < 1521309838 744635 :teuww[m]7KBI5X!~csnaozc@114.7.19.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521309843 3197 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see how long numpy.linalg.eig takes < 1521309913 544396 :Melvar!~melvar@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1521310008 91595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54371&oldid=54370 5* 03ZM 5* (+104) 10 > 1521310022 897690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54372&oldid=54371 5* 03ZM 5* (+0) 10 < 1521310230 30996 :teuww[m]7KBI5X!~csnaozc@114.7.19.5 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521310742 749054 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1521311044 615140 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw it < 1521311046 856577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterative method it is < 1521311053 920883 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :er well < 1521311059 736499 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to use ftell() on /dev/null? < 1521311060 703355 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterative multiplication hoping for a fixed point < 1521311507 743901 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521311728 905989 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later > 1521311998 244924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BFJoust14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54373 5* 03B jonas 5* (+22) 10Redirected page to [[BF Joust]] < 1521312009 692304 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1521312075 812889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54374&oldid=46768 5* 03B jonas 5* (+18) 10Many call it "BFJoust" in chat < 1521312227 865913 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521312358 798293 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFJoust syntax doesn't have an abbreviation for conditionals like [p s ]q s where s never terminates, right? I'm asking because nesting about 20 such conditionals, one for each cell that might be the flag, could be useful, but fully expanded the code could get too big if there's other nontrivial stuff in there. < 1521312366 550224 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :zemhill_rc9c2a0e.Lymia_nyuroki2.bfjoust: nan < 1521312370 235491 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::thinking: < 1521312379 862192 :gxwtarb!~ydmkv@168.0.194.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521312392 218743 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, no such syntax < 1521312460 45225 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and your password isn't allowed to contain colons or stars? < 1521312525 432910 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ask on #eigen for the matrix computation stuff. wait, let me join there too. or you can ask here if you wish. < 1521312529 342916 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... oh < 1521312532 708255 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Why shouldn't it be allowed to contain whatever bytes I want it to contain (with the possible exception of nulls and line breaks)? < 1521312539 356887 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, that nan is probably an infinity :D < 1521312545 437581 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I severely screwed up the matrix construction < 1521312558 430486 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What password exactly do you mean anyways? < 1521312561 658796 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it should. but there's at least one system that doesn't allow colons, and the old services of freenode converted stars to percent signs in passwords < 1521312587 791284 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: none in particular, just reacting to that stuff about no digits allowed in the high score table player names < 1521312644 831194 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For IRC, you can presumably prefix it with a colon if it needs to contain colons or spaces (but again it should then still be allowed to contain anything other than nulls and line breaks) < 1521312667 604876 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, the irc didn't have a problem with colons, that was a different system < 1521312676 543290 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a problem with stars vs percent signs for some reason < 1521312756 346706 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in bfjoust, the star syntax requires the parenthesis, so I can't just write +*119 or +119 or something like that, right? < 1521312814 457151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it should be stored hashed to avoid such a problem, but even so presumably when it checks what is your password it can do the same transformation on it if it is really necessary. Still, yes it is a bad idea if you can't contain colons and stars. Also some things have too short maximum length for password. And sometimes is even worse; on field is limited another isn't and if you type too many it is error < 1521312824 401639 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, right < 1521312834 893456 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck getting anything on the current hill < 1521312836 671391 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll need it < 1521312836 730814 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used roman numbers to write the date on the high score if you can only type letters and spaces. Some games automatically include the date so I can just leave the name blank. < 1521312838 441996 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::c < 1521312840 794063 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: luckily that problem has been solved since the old services are retired < 1521312867 774003 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I heard bottom step of the hill is free < 1521312874 171338 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is < 1521312886 447758 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should say < 1521312886 560164 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the rest is difficult < 1521312891 289963 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For more than 3 cycles" < 1521312892 25192 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1521312953 778664 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATM passwords and sometimes if you need a password for a credit card or debit card for payment, are limited usually to four digits I think, and I think four digits password is a too short limit; the maximum should be at least ten digits < 1521313014 583495 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/11d469b058a069d13dbc9a2f166fcfdad82964a8.txt < 1521313021 183261 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implementation of matrix scoring does not appear correct < 1521313138 299239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are pretty big numbers. < 1521313148 192610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and small as well. < 1521313201 915582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how there's one in the middle that's about 0. < 1521313289 343273 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's suicide < 1521313290 3876 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1521313312 587781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Here's the Eigen-based iterative code I have in my reimplementation -- no guarantees, but at least for the current hill it produces identical results, modulo some roundoff. < 1521313316 611103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ix.io/Yu4/c < 1521313393 708019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And a good sanity check for the t matrix is that all the numbers in it are in [0, 1].) < 1521313409 247666 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I read it < 1521313417 585620 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521313437 715910 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix[a, b] = the number of times a loses to b / tape lengths * program count? < 1521313446 613077 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix[a, a] = everything that's left < 1521313490 665337 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s/tape lengths/tape configurations/. And everything that's left = everything in that row. But yeah. < 1521313513 884173 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'm transposing the matrix by accident, actually < 1521313552 699447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's easy to do, but probably shouldn't lead to crazy results. < 1521313614 629135 :wolfgangit!~euimda@27.76.6.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521313668 535143 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically < 1521313675 949029 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of how I stored the evaluation data < 1521313680 981369 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it won't fit easily in memory) < 1521313690 970629 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dumped it to disk as a list of matchups in arbitary order < 1521313823 203318 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ooooh < 1521313823 778952 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1521313904 307730 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1521313937 87747 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1521313937 691069 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap < 1521314037 414552 :wolfgangit!~euimda@27.76.6.127 QUIT :K-Lined < 1521314257 238847 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully fixed < 1521314315 831616 :gxwtarb!~ydmkv@168.0.194.38 QUIT :K-Lined < 1521314597 63895 :j0z!~j0z@2001:1284:f013:a25:211:aff:fe08:186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521314661 184361 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521314743 31142 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/0d97c3e1f9f5a9d659e9bf7ca53ce78c12977fef.txt < 1521314744 797090 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks < 1521314746 680302 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost right < 1521314754 35731 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But something seems off and I can't quite put my finger to it < 1521315201 305655 :qbijy!~iljkeymg@106.150.189.35.bc.googleusercontent.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1521315327 895039 :qbijy!~iljkeymg@106.150.189.35.bc.googleusercontent.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521315960 141043 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! I'm at the top among the always-losing submissions! < 1521316096 279805 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my highest scoring submissions are called "test" and "nop2" for some reason < 1521316122 264911 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/07f660a8951390b91961ad5fceddf72405d17841.txt < 1521316124 337260 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper markov < 1521316124 687056 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v < 1521316195 507346 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably somewhat messed up < 1521316203 132404 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the presence of many repeated copies of the same bots < 1521316275 172536 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could many copies of the same very high scoring bots mess up markov scoring? < 1521316507 452521 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Full hill markov scoring, no cleverness: https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/07f660a8951390b91961ad5fceddf72405d17841.txt < 1521316507 978905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1521316788 687084 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@ip-2-203-52-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1521316953 366364 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you could try taking only the latest version of each name < 1521316964 731826 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with the best version of every name < 1521316966 523339 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than latest < 1521316975 696007 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you tell which one is the best? < 1521316983 472876 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1521316984 834301 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ranking < 1521317053 583066 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could compute a ranking by taking the current hills, and checking the total score of matches of every submission against only the forty-something on the current hill < 1521317090 757392 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or making a huge hill with every submission ever on it < 1521317101 859628 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's what he's done now < 1521317119 333423 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1521317160 492150 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I right in thinking BFJoust is non-transitive? < 1521317172 93157 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible for A to be beat B and B to beat C and C to beat A? < 1521317180 909834 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes < 1521317299 566785 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like Pokemon < 1521317320 692642 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like any involved game really < 1521317342 664757 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like Europa Universalis 4 < 1521317344 521858 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :she* :v < 1521317402 59897 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1467 distinct programs." < 1521317410 365257 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are easier < 1521317451 387754 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the program (of those not designed to lose instantly) with the most names? < 1521317545 228478 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to do separate analysis on that < 1521317563 736704 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, don't worry about that (at least not for my sake) < 1521317617 255618 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in any game that is made of interactive matches between two players (or teams), like chess or curling or tennis, it would be a miracle if the matches happened to be transitive. It's just that in most games, like football, the matches are also so random that the randomness masks the nontransitivity. < 1521317626 175665 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there were more things like bfjoust and redcode. bfjoust already has an established meta, nothing really to improve, and redcode just stagnated < 1521317657 788981 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: it's not true that there's "nothing really to improve". there are improvements, it's just that the game is hard so few people will take the time. < 1521317666 82554 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: you can play Magic: the Gathering though if you wish < 1521317683 548826 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't even have magic. ): < 1521317745 515431 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/265a0683258ed734d9dd0bbe1ee6e3a807a20d29.txt < 1521317754 939659 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list with only the top for each name < 1521317758 212067 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to rerun markov on these < 1521317758 668564 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1521317811 336117 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1521317829 869666 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521318033 398829 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust blindbigdecoy http://dpaste.com/0KV7DFJ.txt < 1521318034 335095 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas.blindbigdecoy: points -30.50, score 4.06, rank 47/47 < 1521318073 843154 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust better_yet . < 1521318074 278742 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.better_yet: points -33.43, score 2.81, rank 47/47 < 1521318083 367428 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust better_yet (+)*-1 < 1521318084 212453 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.better_yet: points -14.67, score 8.32, rank 47/47 (--) < 1521318552 245069 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust bigdecoy http://dpaste.com/2SSQY79.txt < 1521318553 23333 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas.bigdecoy: points -29.36, score 4.36, rank 47/47 < 1521318620 398420 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully < 1521318622 883217 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so irrelevant < 1521318632 614684 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't bother adding it to the all programs listing < 1521318633 344336 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1521318650 75632 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that's not why I'm submitting it < 1521320196 402086 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Markov scoring on the best version (based on the preliminary markov screening) of every program ever: https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/9b087fcbb87874c1560f7b4cc742ed4c6db03330.txt < 1521320196 782584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1521320325 947853 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521321070 795584 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (.) *-1 < < 1521321071 170201 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -33.43, score 2.81, rank 47/47 < 1521321076 511271 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (.) * -1 < < 1521321076 999375 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -33.43, score 2.81, rank 47/47 (--) < 1521321078 127004 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a good fun community for code golf now that PPCG is old and strict and stodgy? < 1521321080 587337 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (.) * - 1 < < 1521321080 810571 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (--) < 1521321087 795538 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (.) * 100000 < < 1521321088 175400 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -33.43, score 2.81, rank 47/47 (--) < 1521321091 183246 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (.) * 10000 < < 1521321091 464327 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -36.38, score 2.61, rank 47/47 (--) < 1521321093 946512 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (.) * 10 000 < < 1521321094 249111 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (--) < 1521321100 205015 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, strict and stodgy? < 1521321101 591890 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened < 1521321476 80748 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is anagol < 1521321507 653576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like index notation? < 1521321510 992532 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also try to implement something on a Unusenet server < 1521321620 824971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes I think it can be help < 1521322178 507364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? accounting < 1521322180 333379 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⟨BAL|FSV⟩ = 0 < 1521322196 388563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you prefer <| |> notation < 1521322211 935019 :j0z!~j0z@2001:1284:f013:a25:211:aff:fe08:186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1521322252 341630 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1521322293 213385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depend what you are doing, different notation is good for a different purpose < 1521322391 784277 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the left side or the right side conjugated? < 1521324541 351751 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust david_werecat_MV_validation https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/b6d44f4009c66ef79421827d35ea0077da2c5f9c.txt < 1521324545 188657 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.david_werecat_MV_validation: points 12.40, score 33.38, rank 7/47 < 1521324546 993416 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust david_werecat_MV_validation < < 1521324547 272675 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.david_werecat_MV_validation: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-40) < 1521324702 83121 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest best_nyuroki >>>>>>>>[(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]++<[>(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]--<[>>(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]+<[>>>(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]--<[>>>>(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21](+)*51<(-)*51<(-)*51<(+)*51<(-)*19>>>>>(-)*10>(+)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10(>)*6(>[(-)*10[+.].[-.].]---)*21 < 1521324702 249430 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.best_nyuroki: points -5.00, score 16.28, rank 33/47 < 1521324722 460397 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ < 1521324767 689657 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 This is very much not representative of the current hill, BTW. The Nyuroki at the top there is a old weird one-line variant. < 1521324768 165524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1521325794 891809 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 It gets rank #33 on zemhill ladder. < 1521325795 285966 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1521326661 91739 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1521326676 997116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I/D machine Turing-completeness proof14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54375 5* 03Ais523 5* (+13417) 10probably more than half a proof that the I/D machine is Turing-complete; not finished yet < 1521326842 673124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521326948 954243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1521326949 575373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia said 5h 3m 54s ago: https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/a92e2a22c2a1d9fa3cee559fd50d4cce7f7d1c03.txt < 1521326949 689986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia said 2h 54m 1s ago: Full hill markov scoring, no cleverness: https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/07f660a8951390b91961ad5fceddf72405d17841.txt < 1521326949 690035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia said 1h 52m 32s ago: Markov scoring on the best version (based on the preliminary markov screening) of every program ever: https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/9b087fcbb87874c1560f7b4cc742ed4c6db03330. < 1521326949 707703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :txt < 1521326949 707745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia said 36m 21s ago: This is very much not representative of the current hill, BTW. The Nyuroki at the top there is a old weird one-line variant. < 1521326951 459487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia said 19m 14s ago: It gets rank #33 on zemhill ladder. < 1521327016 492258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I'm not surprised the results are different when you put a large number of bad programs onto the hill, being able to beat bad programs effectively is an important skill then < 1521327043 814679 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't Markov scoring minimize that effect? < 1521327066 124003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Markov scorig working? < 1521327135 963873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically, the score of your program is equal to a weighted average of your results against each other program; the average is weighted by the other program's score < 1521327151 915270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something of an infinite regress in the definition but it's possible to resolve it so that the score swork < 1521327154 161216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scores < 1521327165 614786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I'm not sure; most bad programs will randomly beat a few good programs < 1521327178 176820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with so many of them on the hill, it's possible that good programs are being underrepresented in terms of the weights < 1521327252 51114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good example in my programs is slowpoke (very effective against less well engineered programs) doing much better than anticipation (which fails outright against many programs as I had to delete a lot of unused cases to fit it under the size limit) < 1521327327 671981 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521327349 576293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it this way: the best programs score no more than 100, but a bad program will score 8 or so < 1521327357 335732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are more than 12½ times as many bad programs as good ones < 1521327900 684532 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could try cutting all programs with <0 score < 1521328055 944711 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that this hill values robustness over "strength"? < 1521328148 514357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I think I only allow extra whitespace between the * (or %) and the beginning of the number, not inside the number. < 1521328184 361932 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing for a compactor :D < 1521328535 391017 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521328557 678546 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521329311 959340 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1521329322 260609 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full