< 1522713845 342148 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522713858 867418 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522714292 136880 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1522714317 401472 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522714555 328344 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:1db2:f56b:4f6d:c6cc QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1522714559 777387 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i posted an improved Haskell quine on PPCG that uses <>, and now I'm getting a suggestion to use <> on another answer. This GHC change might open a bit of a floodgate... < 1522714574 971375 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the same person improved my quine) < 1522714598 279924 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522714788 61648 :augur!~augur@2600:380:845c:b6e8:7dac:bea5:d7a9:40b QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522715229 152988 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522715295 842489 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: strange. doubly strange, both because of the strange Semigroup instance used, and because I thought the plan was to get the (++) generalized to Monoid into the Prelude instead of a (<>) < 1522715520 507815 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (<>) < 1522715520 582960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<>) = mappend < 1522715527 424276 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fixity (<>) < 1522715527 499011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1522715538 901279 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I ask what fixity an operator is? < 1522715556 278053 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there's a channel for that < 1522715639 783219 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Monoid IO < 1522715639 816680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You untyped fool! < 1522715707 283790 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1522716716 338471 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522716961 958557 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522716977 683022 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522717264 188377 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0<>) < 1522717266 756537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1522717266 811860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator ‘<>’ [infixr 6] of a section < 1522717266 811903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1522717278 52966 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: like that < 1522717349 675124 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks. the guys on #haskell already gave two other possibilities < 1522717352 147016 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: i think the Monoid IO instance is way too new for lambdabot's @src < 1522717384 772746 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I found the source of the instances too with their help < 1522717465 623805 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure someone suggested generalizing ++ , but there were people disagreeing < 1522717496 776622 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> has been in Data.Monoid for a while, as a synonym of mappend. < 1522717514 165136 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1522717540 556594 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but *also* in Data.Semigroup with a conflicting type, something which only got resolved now (I assume they resolved it.) < 1522717581 230269 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Data.Semigroup got moved from a separate package to base only after <> had already been added to Data.Monoid.) < 1522717598 19874 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, they did the same incompatible maneouver as with Applicative: the Monoid class now requires the Semigroup class, and both are in Prelude and (<>) is in Prelude too < 1522717638 41837 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was similar: Monad was in core libraries before Applicative, and Monoid was in core libraries before Semigroup < 1522717652 865733 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in stage four they're supposed to make mappend a synonym of (<>), it's still technically a method of Monoid. < 1522717658 746337 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was some duplication of functionality, which now they eliminated, but everyone has to rewrite their Monad and Monoid instances < 1522717731 420581 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going in four stages because although this breaks backwards compatibility, there's a policy on how quickly it can break, the three release policy. < 1522717767 72779 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should they add a mechanism into Haskell to allow default instances to automatically be made in these cases, so that you don't have to rewrite it? < 1522717768 984133 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming they haven't changed that, they might because now GHC has a faster schedule.) < 1522717812 462486 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what if they add so many superclasses that eventually there are core classes for which you can only define an instance if you define an infinity of other instances first < 1522717814 304717 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's been suggested lots of times but there are too many caveats < 1522717864 944397 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: i don't know about core classes, but they _did_ add the `UndecidableSuperClass` extension, which can do such things. < 1522717910 628039 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still in markdown mode
< 1522718048 574717 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in fact for many years i think the spirit was "we'll make Applicative a superclass of Monad, but we'll need a system for automatic defaults first". but they eventually gave up waiting for that, and implemented it in a backwards incompatible way insted. < 1522718069 901118 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instead < 1522718075 598222 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. such a system is hard. < 1522718136 70940 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think edward kmett wrote a post somewhere explaining some of the difficulties, but i've forgot. < 1522718182 936790 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one thing i remember is that it really doesn't work with multiparameter typeclasses. < 1522718233 257964 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think though that "join" should be part of the Monad class, so that you do not need to define both >>= and join, either one will do (but you need to define the Functor instance too if you aren't defining >>=) < 1522718303 666992 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have seen implementations of Alternative IO that I don't like. A better way can be that: x <|> y is try y if x is error, but the error is allowed to include the indicator at the beginning or end optionally to inherit the error message from x. This not only makes it into a proper monoid, but also can be useful in case you want to report both errors. < 1522718466 554700 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do not see how that is a problem (although there may be problems, that doesn't seem to be one of them), since it doesn't need to work with multiparameter typeclasses. < 1522718905 920903 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: join was supposed to be added to the Monad class, but that broke because of the role inference system. i think i saw some statement recently that the new QuantifiedConstraints extension may be able to fix that. < 1522718953 634613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, then OK, they can see if that extension does fix that. But, what is that extension? < 1522718988 593178 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :QC will allow constraints like (forall a. Monoid (F a)) < 1522719000 649025 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1522719033 311784 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not released yet, but supposedly most of the code is written < 1522719110 541049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will that help this problem though? < 1522719165 317382 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't know, i only saw statement in a header and didn't actually read the post. < 1522719197 613658 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i might guess it could allow role inference to use such constraints < 1522719207 716519 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522719222 134104 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1522719314 310541 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/8257mz/how_quantifiedconstraints_can_let_us_put_join/ < 1522719324 306522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will look < 1522719383 806613 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that makes edward kmett super-happy has to be good < 1522719771 272230 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522720358 233850 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I can see. < 1522720830 414717 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522720935 683836 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1522721280 504721 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522721448 216160 :wob_jonas!b03f18de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.222 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1522724924 37028 :Aearnus!~Aearnus@ip68-3-184-237.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522725045 419722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How often are you using markdown anyways? < 1522725312 440458 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of something to make up Magic: the Gathering card: When ~ is faced up, counter target facedown spell. < 1522725326 769241 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if they already have that or not) < 1522725381 343535 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit.com < 1522725382 639973 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1522725390 225729 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108811 < 1522725397 695394 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait that's the wrong one < 1522725438 272732 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=393874 < 1522725502 670807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is counter any spell < 1522725549 683838 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522725837 682108 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522726465 385488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that rule 400.11 would make more sense if it says "all objects" instead of "all cards", it look like to me. < 1522726553 190509 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :which rule is that? < 1522726605 821408 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :400.11. Some effects instruct a player to do something to a zone (such as "Shuffle your hand into your library"). That action is performed on all cards in that zone. < 1522726721 235130 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no that is intended only for cards < 1522726801 383108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is, although it says "your hand", which contains only cards anyways. (Even if it somehow did contain other objects, they will be gone by that time.) < 1522726804 827728 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's not much of a problem if you do, the game tries to avoid shuffling non-cards into libraries where it can < 1522726888 647301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One card (Warp World) does shuffle tokens into the library. But, as you say it isn't a problem; the tokens once there don't do anything, so there is no need to physically shuffle the tokens. < 1522727064 511566 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: mostly i use markdown on PPCG, and i had just edited one of my posts < 1522727140 114327 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1522727665 427203 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522727855 859543 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think sixteen thousand classes is enough for Free Hero Mesh, or should there be twice as much? < 1522727915 400491 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522728653 845600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think being able to define up to sixteen thousand different kind of pieces in a puzzle game should be more than sufficient; most games have less than one hundred, and converted puzzle sets aren't going to have more than 512 classes anyways. < 1522731521 190586 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522731842 203641 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522732120 204855 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1522732665 232982 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1522732766 687982 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522733923 890971 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522734228 864895 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1522734454 996381 :Aearnus!~Aearnus@ip68-3-184-237.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Aearnus < 1522735981 813380 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522736261 846241 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1522736986 666772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some random guy (not the police or king or guard or whatever) won't let ugly monsters on the carriage, even though he does not intend to enter the carriage himself anyways. < 1522737921 751354 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522738217 669709 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1522738505 480353 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1522739132 277704 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1522739211 361892 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522739478 864860 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1522739665 739276 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentaigana < 1522739776 179601 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522740082 276825 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1522740700 888964 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1522740863 702024 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522742110 456504 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522742143 227609 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522742277 849252 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1522742762 201388 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1522743027 732664 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522743157 403996 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1522743534 157830 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8611:e0d:861:7748:b70b:87fb JOIN :#esoteric < 1522745140 354862 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-upsxtzxffbxfndbn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1522746142 360914 :augur!~augur@2600:380:8611:e0d:861:7748:b70b:87fb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522746350 841117 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1522746461 973898 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1522749824 486574 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522751089 153606 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522751475 759213 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522751490 362755 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.1 < 1522751510 61820 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1522751645 400434 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522751810 31292 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1522752012 234307 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HackEgo is still dead :( < 1522752036 496755 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot`: nostril? < 1522752036 888585 :fungot`!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that one's less useful, but a bit shorter :) i don't know how < 1522752248 265466 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522752428 733300 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1522752486 86541 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anyone attending ACCU 2018? < 1522752493 320332 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb? < 1522753085 382505 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: TURNING CHICKEN < 1522759889 849342 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522760061 251329 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1522760443 993842 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522761757 973532 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522761843 533377 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: doesn't matter. while you can have a token in your graveyard or library or hand, and very rarely it could even matter, it definitely can't move to another zone from there because of 110.5g < 1522761884 477444 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think being able to define up to sixteen thousand different kind of pieces in a puzzle game should be more than sufficient" => I think M:tG will eventually have more than 16000 different cards < 1522762355 24689 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to define classes for some things that aren't cards, such as some abilities or tokens or card faces, then M:tG might already have more than 16000 elements in Vintage < 1522762370 266770 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory that is, most of them aren't actually used by players in Vintage < 1522762502 61973 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: most rules text that talks about moving objects from a graveyard or hand or library already mentions "card" in fact, the exceptions being ones that refer to the card the text is printed on, eg. cycling abilities < 1522763192 891796 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1522763289 243766 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1522765448 863851 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1522766531 501097 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:472:6539:7d5d:8de5:3d8a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522768593 886095 :singingbanana!58509b11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.80.155.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522768604 314445 :singingbanana!58509b11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.80.155.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1522768634 721518 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522768773 703155 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:472:a52d:b9ee:8720:772d JOIN :#esoteric < 1522769077 405100 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxwzqnevaqsixydc JOIN :#esoteric < 1522769452 442406 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522770053 696955 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever since I'm more than 30 years old, increasingly often I've come to realize in how many ways I have become what I used to despise and mock in other people. I just had another of those realizations. < 1522770077 590077 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took a shower, and I realized I have four different kinds of soap in the bloody shower! < 1522770084 293136 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All for myself. < 1522770170 675411 :wob_jonas!b03f18f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no excuse for this. The young me would be ashamed if he knew. < 1522770237 675020 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:bd4c:f488:684e:a1c JOIN :#esoteric < 1522771809 922659 :singingbanana!58509b11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.80.155.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1522773490 642670 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: first I've heard of it < 1522773564 731889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes, I know you can't move a token to another zone once it is no longer in the battlefield anyways. < 1522773602 292482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, Magic: the Gathering isn't really suitable to implement in Free Hero Mesh. < 1522775233 482680 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522775331 10336 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( M:tG is like Nomic except that only one of the players is allowed to change the rules. :P ) < 1522775398 112167 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjecture: it's possible for every (well-defined) game to be a suitably progressed Nomic < 1522775449 454111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but if you take Chess, the rules are much more (though not absolutely) stable over time. < 1522775477 42538 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was going off on a tangent rather than disagreeing) < 1522775505 329272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you made a valid point but that doesn't stop me from trying to discredit it :P < 1522775865 269740 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1522776948 162794 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1522777099 110412 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah it's odd when a week starts on Tuesday... I have not looked at yesterday's Girl Genius commic yet. < 1522777123 680596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, or non-comic. < 1522777835 405399 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522777928 125987 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^8ball Will HackEgo ever be back? < 1522777928 256481 :fungot`!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1522777979 491820 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1522778115 785722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( `learn portmontageousness//"Portmontageousness" describes the irresisturge to portmontulate. ) < 1522778354 843752 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1522778483 678898 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1522778952 23381 :augur!~augur@2600:380:467e:946b:6d12:c6ee:eb62:968c JOIN :#esoteric < 1522779116 572606 :augur_!~augur@2600:380:467e:946b:7ddb:2575:d93e:9071 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522779296 479398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1522779296 965210 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1522779296 965273 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1522779383 18035 :augur!~augur@2600:380:467e:946b:6d12:c6ee:eb62:968c QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1522779689 768043 :augur_!~augur@2600:380:467e:946b:7ddb:2575:d93e:9071 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1522779745 703636 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4627:1cce:b95e:60e3:259c:b501 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522779827 499538 :augur!~augur@2600:380:4627:1cce:b95e:60e3:259c:b501 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1522779957 705784 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1522780261 120233 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1522780723 701022 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1522781177 310559 :prooftechnique_!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522781268 977214 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :*.net *.split < 1522781270 616158 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :*.net *.split < 1522781270 649809 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1522781300 661123 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522781397 830825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1522781464 144677 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1522781478 901731 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1522781500 479400 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1522781780 484204 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1522782109 101993 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1522783888 130967 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:bd4c:f488:684e:a1c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522783939 788784 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1522784304 913269 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522785028 889740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1522785615 409992 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-delmwwsygsqmktus QUIT :Excess Flood < 1522785657 368796 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1522785669 548217 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-jykkxbrgolzgtavv JOIN :#esoteric < 1522785764 785167 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1522786246 96381 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522787632 852827 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522788291 97823 :Aearnus!~Aearnus@ip68-3-184-237.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522788391 766391 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522789784 701106 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522790737 792032 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522790976 578407 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... < 1522791143 672239 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:b85c:341a:9f97:e233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522791595 677018 :lldd_!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1522791741 563761 :aeyxa!d8f358fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.243.88.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522792370 871572 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522792939 480066 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1522792959 256680 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1522793735 28977 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1522794012 841667 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1522794260 764994 :Aearnus!~Aearnus@ip68-3-184-237.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Aearnus < 1522794494 88579 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an official unicode spec for matching characters for text search < 1522794509 946173 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :like so that "a" matches "á", "ä", etc. < 1522794849 898162 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellorcah. decompose characters and strip anything unascii. < 1522794862 123375 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's NFKC or NFKD? < 1522795049 197633 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work for everything < 1522795055 48324 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about eth or thorn? < 1522795077 299033 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm curious because of a search I encountered where you had to search "d" for eth and curious if it is standard or ont) < 1522795134 418016 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point. < 1522795136 329598 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1522795371 5213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Unicode has any standard beyond the "K" normalization forms. < 1522795379 490951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/#normalizationLimitations discusses the topic a little. < 1522795499 789353 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1522795733 430399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some relevant stuff in the Unicode collation algorithm http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Searching and especially http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Asymmetric_Search and there's also a standard algorithm for determining "visually confusable" strings for security purposes in http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr39/#Confusable_Detection < 1522796097 369037 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-167-074.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1522796108 200522 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-006-167-074.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1522796449 306871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1522797055 173496 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:b85c:341a:9f97:e233 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1522797146 268497 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1522797171 730522 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-188-109-081-098.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1522797250 723445 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-188-109-081-098.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1522799572 481313 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1522799620 12443 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsøœøœøœøœøœøœøirjan. < 1522799705 545269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Consider the inverse id_M^-1 : M -> M of the identity map id_M, such that" < 1522799715 583336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what these people were getting at but that's kind of a silly thing to say.